From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 02:02:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2172LMK031051 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:02:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2172Ls2031052; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:02:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2170c5G024806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:00:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2170XEL029390; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:00:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2170TUI029354 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:00:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1CB2233902 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 01:00:29 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 01:00:42 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 02:02:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440546FD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Nice site. http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html If you go to the purple dress, the all white and cream garment is the kirtle. She seems to have used the kirtle bodice as a corset and boned it. This is interesting, I wonder if this is learning from extent garments or theory. I am curious about the petticoat, taffeta bodice and wool skirt. As I am not an expert, these layers are new to me. Becky, Note the sleeves of the smock and then compare it to the picture with the cream false sleeves. The poufs in the false sleeves are not from the smock sleeves. The purple laced picture is showing the bodice of the purple gown. A placard which is a piece of material that is sewn in the shape of the front of the bodice covers the lacing and is pinned with straight pins along the sides. The points of the pins are embedded between the layers. So what she has is: smock bodice and wool skirt petticoat farthingale kirtle/corset gown. Is this correct? I have alway thought it was: smock (maybe underwear) kirtle gown What I find frustrating with the site is that only the children's costumes show the layers but not the adults. Beautiful work though. De -----Original Message----- It came from someone on the h-costume boards. I will see if I still have the reference. I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. I have the Margo Anderson patterns, the Arnold books and ordered one by Jean M(? I can't remember the last name right now) It's about costuming. The site where I have seen the pictures of the layers used for this portrait is "Ninya Mikhaila" ninya@ninyamikhaila.com http://www.ninyamikhaila.com Her website has 2 versions of a gown from the portrait. One shows the layers and the other shows how she did the front opening. She also wrote to me when I asked questions. She has been very helpful and easily available when I needed her advice. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 04:12:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k219C3lm027104 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:12:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k219C4uZ002828; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:12:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k219BJfr051579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k219BF0V039146; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:11:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k219B9AO039090 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:11:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6301F5178A for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 01:11:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 01:11:08 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:12:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44056564.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve? http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working whacking something. She's wearing green dress with short upper sleeves, and a pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? or something in her hands. Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something similar to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? Kimiko She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 04:55:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k219tE6v031498 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:55:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k219tErj015103; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:55:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k219sqPE064868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:54:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k219soL3069902; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k219sjHE069833 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 02:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 91844 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 09:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.226 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 09:54:44 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:54:40 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:55:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44056F82.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 09:11 01/03/2006, you wrote: >At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >>I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. > > >Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this >image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve? > >http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 >zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working >whacking something. She's wearing green dress with short upper >sleeves, and a pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? >or something in her hands. > >Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. >She's also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of >something similar to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? > >Kimiko >She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html (A Hungarian working in Ferrara mid 15th century) And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap. http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg (The Altarpiece of the Seven Sacraments, http://www.shop-com.co.uk/amos/cc/main/prod/act/21946059/ccsyn/261 You will have to enlarge this - she is the figure on the bottom right of the centre panel. The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also called the Deposition from the Cross) http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have continued in the later period? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 06:10:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21BAQDs017810 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:10:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21BARlQ013171; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:10:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21B9mIO072725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:09:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21B9jPv026397; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:09:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21B9eE2026233 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:09:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.143]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060301110934.OULE6239.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:09:34 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.183.2]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060301110934.AYN1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:09:34 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.1/271]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:09:34 +1300 Message-ID: <001f01c63d20$9ee651e0$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:09:28 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 06:10:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44058123.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were > obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have > continued in the later period? In Germany you have half sleeve gowns of all sorts in the 16thC. I just recently made a very light summer version: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/3cleves.htm I have some thumbnails that link to the full images which show the dress style in context. Earlier in the century of course there are the spit sleeves where the lower piece can be removed, these gowns may have evolved from there. Or not;) They are worn with fitted sleeves underneath usually but the Dutch dresses wear the sleeves pinned to the outside. I realise there are short sleeved robes and surcoats worn in England and at other times, so this short sleeved outerwear may not be completely helpful, but it does show short sleeves were worn. I also doubt that sleeve length was often mentioned in inventaries and wills? michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/271 - Release Date: 28/02/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 06:35:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21BZAtk021135 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:35:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21BYf34022506; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:35:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21BYKxv075718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:34:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21BYHSV045886; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:34:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21BYEdD045766 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:34:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1389.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.111]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CE7BE65E for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:34:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:34:03 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Men's shoes 1800-1810 question References: <000801c639e5$c8eae890$0300a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <000801c639e5$c8eae890$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060301113407.D1CE7BE65E@cardassian.kabelfoon.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 06:35:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440586D1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks for all the response. I am getting an idee of what I can do. I don't want him to buy expensive shoes just for one event. Greetings, Deredere Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: >My husband is in "Once Upon A Mattress" and just bought "jazz" shoes-- flat, >black, with a small heel. Not perfectly period, but close, easy to find and >comfortable. > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On >Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com >Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:50 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Men's shoes 1800-1810 question > > > >In a message dated 2/23/2006 10:26:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > >Flat pumps, very like ladies' shoes of the same period. > > > >Ditto--definitely NOT boots--they were not proper for the "drawing room" >nor >for the ballroom. > >My husband wears a loafer type shoe, but with the seam stitched inside, >like >this. >_http://www.allenedmonds.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplayDetailVi >ew >?storeId=1&langId=-1&contractId=100&catalogId=40000000001&parent_category_rn >=1 >83&categoryId=190&productId=6370000&imageType=1&occasion=190_ >(http://www.allenedmonds.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplayDetailVi >ew?storeId=1&langI >d=-1&contractId=100&catalogId=40000000001&parent_category_rn=183&categoryId= >19 >0&productId=6370000&imageType=1&occasion=190) > Regular formal pumps don't seem to come wide enough to fit him. But if >you can find them, they would be best. > >Ann Wass >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 07:55:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Ct2Pn007377 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:55:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Ct267021977; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:55:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21CslDf093110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:54:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21CsjhX017156; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:54:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav5.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21CsfSP017107 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:54:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:54:41 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:54:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:54:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 12:54:41.0020 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E214BC0:01C63D2F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 07:55:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440599A6.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Someone refered to this hat as the "Fram Filter Hat". It's the only one I've seen like that. Sleeves... is this an outer gown or a kirtle? I see the attached lacing for the lower sleeves. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} > At 09:11 01/03/2006, you wrote: >>At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >>>I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. >> >> >>Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this image >>below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve? >> >>http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 >>zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working whacking >>something. She's wearing green dress with short upper sleeves, and a >>pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? or something in her >>hands. >> >>Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's >>also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something similar >>to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? >> >>Kimiko >>She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. > > > http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html > > (A Hungarian working in Ferrara mid 15th century) > > And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van > der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the > sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap. > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > > (The Altarpiece of the Seven Sacraments, > http://www.shop-com.co.uk/amos/cc/main/prod/act/21946059/ccsyn/261 > > You will have to enlarge this - she is the figure on the bottom right of > the centre panel. > > The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing > what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I > spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also called > the Deposition from the Cross) > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg > > I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were > obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have > continued in the later period? > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 08:04:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21D4L4C007628 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:04:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21D4LnG025115; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:04:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Cx0lx093616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:59:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21CwxRY019768; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:58:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21CwuDG019693 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:58:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1ac.48de16c1 (15864) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID63-3df844059a81140; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 07:58:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:58:41 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:04:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44059BD5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k21D4L4C007628 Status: RO Looks like she is preparing flax. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 1, 2006, at 4:11 AM, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >> I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. > > > Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this > image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached > sleeve? > > http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 > zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working > whacking something. She's wearing green dress with short upper > sleeves, and a pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? > or something in her hands. > > Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's > also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something > similar to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? > > Kimiko > She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 08:31:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21DVLa0008187 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:31:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21DVMf9002400; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:31:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21DUwdg000380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21DUtDr045765; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:30:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav9.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Cj7BA011066 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:45:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 04:45:03 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:45:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:44:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 12:45:03.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5E31340:01C63D2D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:31:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405A22A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I don't know about the short sleeves but she is whacking linen. I saw a demonstration at my weaving guild and it was just like that. I'm not familar with the term for the technique. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:11 AM Subject: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} > At 01:59 PM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >>I don't know what a short sleeved kirtle looks like. > > > Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this image > below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached sleeve? > > http://www.morganlibrary.org/collections/collections.asp?id=60 > zoom in close to the far left of the image. It is a woman working whacking > something. She's wearing green dress with short upper sleeves, and a > pinkish colored lower sleeve. She's holding a cudgel? or something in her > hands. > > Granted, it is a working woman who is from Belgium, not England. She's > also not a noble woman, but could this be an example of something similar > to what we can't see under Tudor gowns? > > Kimiko > She who may be grasping at straws in the early morning hours. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 08:45:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21DjUcE008536 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:45:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21DjQND008473; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:45:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Dj5CI001874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:45:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Dj4Fu056861; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:45:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21DivBg056743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 06:45:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.31] (69-171-202-42.sbtnvt.adelphia.net [69.171.202.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21DipeT026641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:44:56 -0500 Message-ID: <4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:42:23 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:45:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405A576.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO There are several images of working women in the DaCosta Hours who are wearing the short sleeve/protective sleeve combo. Here they are: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/work/index.html And as Suzi added, quite a few late 15th century versions of short sleeved gowns. Here are some (scroll down to the "kirtle" section). I notice this has become a very popular look in SCA/Ren Faire circles. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a bit of a close-up: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg (A couple examples of the odd hat as well.) Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. - Hope Kimiko wrote: >> Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this >> image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached >> sleeve? Suzi Clarke added: > http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html > And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van > der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the > sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap. > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing > what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I > spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also > called the Deposition from the Cross) > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 10:41:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21FfGcD011479 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:41:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21FfGY0001784; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:41:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Fefrx020359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FeW3k068806; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:40:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FeSEn068623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:40:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FETRB-0004vY-5S; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:40:25 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:40:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301104025.lni9y6mf5jk0cw44@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:40:25 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:41:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405C09C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting otsisto : > Nice site. > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html > If you go to the purple dress, the all white and cream garment is the > kirtle. There's a red version that shows layers as well http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/eliztower.html > She seems to have used the kirtle bodice as a corset and boned it. This is > interesting, I wonder if this is learning from extent garments or theory. I'm hoping that this is something that she'll address in her book Tudor Tailor. http://www.tudortailor.com/ It's supposed to be out this month! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 10:50:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21FoXFF011770 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:50:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21FoY51006728; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:50:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Fns41021725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:49:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FnfME078178; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:49:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FnZ5H077981 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.12c.6fc52a8d (16112) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:49:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-r22 (mblk-r22.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.213]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-3ef04405c2723a9; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0500 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0500 From: tearoses@aol.com Message-Id: <8C80B5ECE8C9B40-1310-2572@mblk-r22.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-r22.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.213) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0500 X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.213 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle, air filter hat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:50:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405C2CA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I recently came across this excellent web page covering both of these subjects: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ Scroll down to the "kirtle" heading for images of short-sleeved kirtles from just before the Tudor time period. In the first image of her "transition dress" section, you can see a dress that looks remarkably like a Tudor gown, only the outermost layer has short, fur-lined sleeves and the big bell sleeves are on the underdress. To me, it seems like it would be the next step to wear the big sleeves on the outside and the short-sleeved gown underneath. You can also see that she has a third, narrow sleeve under the other two, which must have evolved into the slashed faux sleeves of the Tudor dress. If you scroll down below that, there's a heading of "Other Headdresses" which includes several other images of the mysterious air filter hat. Hope this helps! Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 11:40:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21GeuZc013212 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21GevET031067; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21GZI7L028314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21GZ6UW025416; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:35:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21GZ0FB025216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:35:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEUHu-0002Z0-7o; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:34:54 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:34:54 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301113454.bne6ffafm57sokcc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:34:54 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> <4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=23% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:41:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405CE99.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Hope Greenberg : > > I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a > bit of a close-up: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg I've always liked that one. Looks like it was made from The Remnant Bag [funny, how all the pieces look alike instead of "patchwork!" :-)] It would be an interesting exercise to do some math on that painting and come up with a size for those little trapezoids! Let's see, there's 2.5 from her waist to her knee so that puts them in the 6-8" tall range. Reckon that this skirt *was* produced from the cabbage? > > Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian > 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either > Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin > Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. > You'll have to let us know what the paintings are when you get the information -- they may be online somewher! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 12:54:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21HssSH015839 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:54:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Hsshj002236; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:54:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Hs2wm043868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:54:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21HrpsL012441; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:53:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Hre3x012282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:53:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:29397 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEVWC-0005ax-3L for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:53:46 -0600 Message-ID: <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245><001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was PrincessElizabeth) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:53:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:54:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405DFEE.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" > While I agree with you, I would love to know the specific documentation > you have on this. I am working on an upcoming show and tell lecture for my > faire community where I deal with various Ren-faire costuming myths being > busted by showing the historical images, if any, or other historical > documentation that is available. While this was something I guessed at, it > isn't something I've been able to show a "proof" of either way. I would > love to be able to do so. Well, this is going to be the short version! I have a room full of new cloth and I want to go sew now! =} It is largely deductive; it can't help but be, in the absence of some document from 1550 saying "I wish mightily that they woulde make alle good speed to invent the bloddy corset already, els I will surely bust myne seames." However, the best proof lies in its conspicuous absense in places where it certainly should be present if worn. For example, here's a quote from 1532-5 by Francois Rabelais: "Next to the smock they put on the pretty kirtle or vasquin of pure silk chamelot; above that went the taffatie or tabi vardingale, of white, red tanne, gray or any other colour; above this taffatie petticoat they had another of cloth of tissue or brocade, embroidered with fine gold, and interlaced with needlework or as they thought good." Now if they wore corsets, it would surely be listed here, yes? You find the same conspicuous absence in inventories of the day. Instead, the inventories and other accounts of the day DO list what they used instead. In the quote above, it is the "pretty kirtle or vasquin" [the vasquine being a garment with a stiffened bodice and a skirt]. In an inventory of the era, it is: "3 ells white Parchet (fustian) under the bodice at 27 pfund for stiffening." For Katherine of Aragon in her last years, it was "Item, three breeste clothis of Hollande cloth with tapis of the same." Also helpful are descriptions by foreigners of the odd things they found while traveling. Here's a quote from a travelogue by a Spanish courtier who accompanied Prince Phillip to England in 1554; I'm including more that necessary here, because it's funny, and also useful to anyone dealing with this period: "The Queen, however, is not at all beautiful; small, and rather flabby than fat, she is of white complexion and fair, and has no eyebrows. She is a perfect saint, and dresses badly. All the women here wear petticoats of coloured cloth without admixture of silk, and above come coloured robes of damask, satin or velvet, very badly cut. Their shoes are sometimes of velvet, but more often of leather, and they wear black stockings and show their legs up to the knee when walking. As their skirts are not long they are passably immodest when walking, and even when seated. They are neither beautiful nor graceful when dancing, and their dances only consist in strutting or trotting about. Not a single Spanish gentleman has fallen in love with one of them nor takes any interest in them, and their feelings for us are the same." Here we get more speculative and deductive; the Spanish almost certainly originated the vasquine (described above) and therefore are used to seeing firm figures. In fact, the supported body is called a "spagnolized body" in 1588. As one can easily fit over a firm underpinning such as the vasquine (or a corset), clothing fit without the benefit of these firm underpinnings will indeed look badly cut to a Spanish eye, and a Mary will indeed look flabby without support. The travelogue is also useful in tracking who's got it and who doesn't, when it does arrive. For example, a Venetian ambassador visiting France described the following in 1577: "French women have inconcievably narrow waists ...[stuff about farthingales]. Over the chemise they wear a corset or bodice, that they call a "corps pique" which makes their shape more delicate and more slender. It is fastened behind which helps show off the form of the bust." This tells us that while the French had the corset in 1577, the Venetians most likely did not. [Note: the word 'corset' here doesn't mean much, for two reasons. First, this is a translation, and I don't know what word was actually used in the original. Second, 'corset' didn't mean 'corset' in the modern sense until around the early 19th century. More on that below.] Finally, there's the matter of the amount of notice that corsets attracted when they began to be known. They're commented on, they're preached against, they're made fun of in verse, and generally start a noticeable buzz. Earlier, all sorts of fashion innovations are ridiculed; if corsets existed in the same places earlier, surely they would be ridiculed there as well! Here's an example: "These privie coates, by art made strong with bones, with past, with such like ware Whereby their backe and sides grow long, and now they harnest gallants are; Were they for use against the foe, Our dames for amazones might goe." (Stephen Gosson, 1596) >From here, I'll let you look into it, but here's a few tips. First, if you don't already have them, get or check out: "Corsets and Crinolines" by Norah Waugh "The Corset: A Cultural History" by Valerie Steele Neither is absolutely infallible, but both will be very helpful. Second, watch out for the terminology in inventories, letters, etc. Like I noted above, a corset is not a corset. A corse isn't one either, for that matter. Words and phrases to watch for are: pair of bodies petticoat bodies corps a pique' French bodice/bodies privy coat whalebone bodice/bodies Third, here is the approximate corset timeline I've worked out. It's rough and I'm doing it by memory rather than looking at my notes, so disclaimer, etc. c1500-20: popularization of the busk [Italian] c1520: vasquine [Spanish] c1520-1570: vasquine spreads across Europe; bodices in general are stiffened, but do not become a separate garment c1570-77: separate stiffened bodice [French] c1580-1590: 'French bodice' infiltrates England Hope this helps. You can distribute it/use it for teaching, but please keep my name attached! Elena House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 13:37:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21IbFph016584 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:37:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21IbGc5021155; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:37:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21IapZ2050677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:36:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21IaiAl052785; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:36:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21FRelH055360 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos2.cos.agilent.com (relcos2.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.237]) by msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7BC233A8 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com (wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com [148.5.6.4]) by relcos2.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA0CB02 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosbh03.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.128]) by wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 08:27:33 -0700 Received: from wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.80]) by wcosbh03.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:33 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:27:33 -0700 Message-ID: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B077BBF6C@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 207 Thread-Index: AcY9MPS7gwWBMaL6RXWgNxyrQh3mfgAEIDzg From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 15:27:33.0846 (UTC) FILETIME=[A98F7760:01C63D44] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k21FRelH055360 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 207 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:37:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405E9DC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My comments are in reference to this site: http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html > So what she has is: > smock > bodice and wool skirt > petticoat > farthingale > kirtle/corset > gown. > Is this correct? > I have alway thought it was: > smock (maybe underwear) > kirtle > gown I'm hoping that the _Tudor Tailor_ book that's coming out soon will answer these questions. Based on my perusal of portraits the Farthingale layer is optional -- c1530 most portraits don't show it, however by 1545, the royal family at least is wearing farthingales. Supposedly farthingales were introduced into England by Catharine of Aragon, but they don't seem to have caught on immediately. According to Ninya, "The first farthingale mentioned in England was in the Royal Wardrobe accounts in 1545 for Princess Elizabeth" Ninya Mikhaila's site is the only reference I've seen to the odd red bodice/wool skirt/petticoat thing. Awhile ago she had a pdf on her website (which I can no longer find on-line; it was titled "Background and references to the reproduction of the costume worn by Princess Elizabeth in the 1546 portrait at Windsor" and the name of the pdf was Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf) that did talk a little about the petticoat: "It is clear from household accounts of this period that a lady's outfit above her smock consisted of a petticoat, kirtle and gown. Since we are not left with much in the way of visual information to work from there is an amount of conjecture as to exactly how these garments were constructed and what they actually looked like. Petticoats are usually listed as having 'bodies' as well as skirts, interestingly the Petre accounts suggest only one and a quarter yards of cloth for a petticoat. Although cloth was wider than silk it still suggests a fairly skimpy garment. Janet Arnold suggests that the upper part of the petticoat was merely there to keep the skirts up and therefore could be almost as minimal as a pair of braces. The petticoat we have made to go with this costume has a red taffeta bodice and a red wool skirt. This combination is based on an entry in Mary I accounts for 1554 - '...a peticoate of scarlet, the upper bodyes of crimson tapheta...' Petticoats mentioned in contemporary accounts from Thomasine Petre to Mary I are always red, it may have been thought that some kind of healthful benefit could be derived from wearing red close to the body, one of Henry VIII's physicians advised that scarlet be worn next over the shirt (cunnington 1970, 26)" The layers Ninya used, as I see it are: Smock Red wool/taffeta petticoat Farthingale Kirtle Gown Hope that's useful! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 14:19:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JJs1i017290 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:19:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JJt95007967; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:19:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21JHaGF057623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:17:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JHRbc096176; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:17:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JHGEL095902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:17:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEWp0-0002sC-3D; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:17:14 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:17:14 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301141714.imyu175194ww0s04@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:17:14 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was PrincessElizabeth) References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245><001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:19:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405F3DB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting E House : *snippage* > Now if they wore corsets, it would surely be listed here, yes? You > find the same conspicuous absence in inventories of the day. > Instead, the inventories and other accounts of the day DO list what > they used instead. In the quote above, it is the "pretty kirtle or > vasquin" [the vasquine being a garment with a stiffened bodice and a > skirt]. In an inventory of the era, it is: "3 ells white Parchet > (fustian) under the bodice at 27 pfund for stiffening." For > Katherine of Aragon in her last years, it was "Item, three breeste > clothis of Hollande cloth with tapis of the same." So how is "a garment with a stiffened bodice" different from a boned kirtle, and how is that *fundamentally* different from a corset? (aside from the obvious thing that a corset in and of itself doesn't have an attached skirt -- which is why I said "fundamentally") Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 14:31:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JVIQZ017557 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:31:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JVJr6013742; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:31:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21JUuhd060035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JUsI1010546; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav4.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JUjM0010317 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:30:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:30:37 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:30:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060301104025.lni9y6mf5jk0cw44@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:30:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 19:30:37.0321 (UTC) FILETIME=[9DFD2790:01C63D66] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:31:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405F687.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Yes, Mine is on order!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth > Quoting otsisto : > >> Nice site. >> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html >> If you go to the purple dress, the all white and cream garment is the >> kirtle. > > There's a red version that shows layers as well > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/eliztower.html > >> She seems to have used the kirtle bodice as a corset and boned it. This >> is >> interesting, I wonder if this is learning from extent garments or theory. > > I'm hoping that this is something that she'll address in her book Tudor > Tailor. > > http://www.tudortailor.com/ > > It's supposed to be out this month! > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 14:49:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21JmxOD018048 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:48:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Jn0Bt021496; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:49:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Jln8W062898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:47:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JlkTw027567; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:47:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21JlhL7027428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:47:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEXIT-00066j-1z; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:47:41 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:47:41 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301144741.knhcg00zf5674os8@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:47:41 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 207 References: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B077BBF6C@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> In-Reply-To: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B077BBF6C@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:49:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405FAAC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting sunshine_buchler@agilent.com: > > I'm hoping that the _Tudor Tailor_ book that's coming out soon will > answer these questions. Based on my perusal of portraits the > Farthingale layer is optional -- c1530 most portraits don't show it, > however by 1545, the royal family at least is wearing farthingales. > Supposedly farthingales were introduced into England by Catharine of > Aragon, but they don't seem to have caught on immediately. According > to Ninya, "The first farthingale mentioned in England was in the > Royal Wardrobe accounts in 1545 for Princess Elizabeth" > > Ninya Mikhaila's site is the only reference I've seen to the odd red > bodice/wool skirt/petticoat thing. Awhile ago she had a pdf on her > website (which I can no longer find on-line; it was titled > "Background and references to the reproduction of the costume worn by > Princess Elizabeth in the 1546 portrait at Windsor" and the name of > the pdf was Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf) that did talk a little about > the petticoat: google is your friend! I went and poked around the Internet Archive (aka The Wayback Machine) with no success and then just googled for the title! http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Images/Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 15:09:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21K9Igg018530 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:09:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21K9ICj030483; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:09:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21K95A9066774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21K92Zp050019; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21K8vv6049913 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:08:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE3CEEE05B2; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:04:12 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:09:04 -0800 Message-ID: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20060301113454.bne6ffafm57sokcc@www.goldsword.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k21K8vv6049913 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:09:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405FF6E.00A by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Quoting Hope Greenberg : > > I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a > bit of a close-up: > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg I've always liked that one. Looks like it was made from The Remnant Bag [funny, how all the pieces look alike instead of "patchwork!" :-)] It would be an interesting exercise to do some math on that painting and come up with a size for those little trapezoids! Let's see, there's 2.5 from her waist to her knee so that puts them in the 6-8" tall range. Reckon that this skirt *was* produced from the cabbage? > > Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian > 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either > Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin > Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. > You'll have to let us know what the paintings are when you get the information -- they may be online somewher! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 15:10:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KAfW0018577 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:10:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KAfFU017025; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:10:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21K9sT3067009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21K9n92050791; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21K9cn7050595 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:09:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55c2.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.194]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 31BD5262879 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:09:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005701c63d6c$181bb870$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245><001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub><6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (wasPrincessElizabeth) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:09:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:10:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4405FFC1.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bravo!!!! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (wasPrincessElizabeth) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kimiko Small" >> While I agree with you, I would love to know the specific documentation >> you have on this. I am working on an upcoming show and tell lecture for >> my faire community where I deal with various Ren-faire costuming myths >> being busted by showing the historical images, if any, or other >> historical documentation that is available. While this was something I >> guessed at, it isn't something I've been able to show a "proof" of either >> way. I would love to be able to do so. > > > Well, this is going to be the short version! I have a room full of new > cloth and I want to go sew now! =} > > It is largely deductive; it can't help but be, in the absence of some > document from 1550 saying "I wish mightily that they woulde make alle good > speed to invent the bloddy corset already, els I will surely bust myne > seames." > > However, the best proof lies in its conspicuous absense in places where it > certainly should be present if worn. For example, here's a quote from > 1532-5 by Francois Rabelais: > "Next to the smock they put on the pretty kirtle or vasquin of pure silk > chamelot; above that went the taffatie or tabi vardingale, of white, red > tanne, gray or any other colour; above this taffatie petticoat they had > another of cloth of tissue or brocade, embroidered with fine gold, and > interlaced with needlework or as they thought good." > Now if they wore corsets, it would surely be listed here, yes? You find > the same conspicuous absence in inventories of the day. Instead, the > inventories and other accounts of the day DO list what they used instead. > In the quote above, it is the "pretty kirtle or vasquin" [the vasquine > being a garment with a stiffened bodice and a skirt]. In an inventory of > the era, it is: "3 ells white Parchet (fustian) under the bodice at 27 > pfund for stiffening." For Katherine of Aragon in her last years, it was > "Item, three breeste clothis of Hollande cloth with tapis of the same." > > Also helpful are descriptions by foreigners of the odd things they found > while traveling. Here's a quote from a travelogue by a Spanish courtier > who accompanied Prince Phillip to England in 1554; I'm including more that > necessary here, because it's funny, and also useful to anyone dealing with > this period: > "The Queen, however, is not at all beautiful; small, and rather flabby > than fat, she is of white complexion and fair, and has no eyebrows. She > is a perfect saint, and dresses badly. All the women here wear petticoats > of coloured cloth without admixture of silk, and above come coloured robes > of damask, satin or velvet, very badly cut. Their shoes are sometimes of > velvet, but more often of leather, and they wear black stockings and show > their legs up to the knee when walking. As their skirts are not long they > are passably immodest when walking, and even when seated. They are > neither beautiful nor graceful when dancing, and their dances only consist > in strutting or trotting about. Not a single Spanish gentleman has fallen > in love with one of them nor takes any interest in them, and their > feelings for us are the same." > Here we get more speculative and deductive; the Spanish almost certainly > originated the vasquine (described above) and therefore are used to seeing > firm figures. In fact, the supported body is called a "spagnolized body" > in 1588. As one can easily fit over a firm underpinning such as the > vasquine (or a corset), clothing fit without the benefit of these firm > underpinnings will indeed look badly cut to a Spanish eye, and a Mary will > indeed look flabby without support. > > The travelogue is also useful in tracking who's got it and who doesn't, > when it does arrive. For example, a Venetian ambassador visiting France > described the following in 1577: > "French women have inconcievably narrow waists ...[stuff about > farthingales]. Over the chemise they wear a corset or bodice, that they > call a "corps pique" which makes their shape more delicate and more > slender. It is fastened behind which helps show off the form of the bust." > This tells us that while the French had the corset in 1577, the Venetians > most likely did not. [Note: the word 'corset' here doesn't mean much, for > two reasons. First, this is a translation, and I don't know what word was > actually used in the original. Second, 'corset' didn't mean 'corset' in > the modern sense until around the early 19th century. More on that > below.] > > Finally, there's the matter of the amount of notice that corsets attracted > when they began to be known. They're commented on, they're preached > against, they're made fun of in verse, and generally start a noticeable > buzz. Earlier, all sorts of fashion innovations are ridiculed; if corsets > existed in the same places earlier, surely they would be ridiculed there > as well! Here's an example: > "These privie coates, by art made strong > with bones, with past, with such like ware > Whereby their backe and sides grow long, > and now they harnest gallants are; > Were they for use against the foe, > Our dames for amazones might goe." (Stephen Gosson, 1596) > >>From here, I'll let you look into it, but here's a few tips. First, if >>you > don't already have them, get or check out: > "Corsets and Crinolines" by Norah Waugh > "The Corset: A Cultural History" by Valerie Steele > Neither is absolutely infallible, but both will be very helpful. > Second, watch out for the terminology in inventories, letters, etc. Like > I noted above, a corset is not a corset. A corse isn't one either, for > that matter. Words and phrases to watch for are: > pair of bodies > petticoat bodies > corps a pique' > French bodice/bodies > privy coat > whalebone bodice/bodies > Third, here is the approximate corset timeline I've worked out. It's > rough and I'm doing it by memory rather than looking at my notes, so > disclaimer, etc. > c1500-20: popularization of the busk [Italian] > c1520: vasquine [Spanish] > c1520-1570: vasquine spreads across Europe; bodices in general are > stiffened, but do not become a separate garment > c1570-77: separate stiffened bodice [French] > c1580-1590: 'French bodice' infiltrates England > > > Hope this helps. You can distribute it/use it for teaching, but please > keep my name attached! > Elena House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 15:12:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KCVgg018651 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:12:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KCWgi031948; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21KBlu8067413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KBg66052994; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:11:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KBXTh052811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:11:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.32] (69-171-202-42.sbtnvt.adelphia.net [69.171.202.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KBRsO001799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:11:32 -0500 Message-ID: <4405FFEE.3070400@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:11:26 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 207 References: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B077BBF6C@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> <20060301144741.knhcg00zf5674os8@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20060301144741.knhcg00zf5674os8@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:12:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44060030.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO re: the petticoat: Red may well have been a favorite color but it should be noted that the term "scarlet" is also a tricky one. At times it has referred not to a color but to a type of cloth, generally a really fine smooth wool. One of the essays in Harte, N.B. and K.G. Ponting, "Cloth and clothing in medieval Europe : essays in memory of Professor E.M. Carus-Wilson" (London: Heinemann Educational Books ; [Edington] : Pasold Research Fund, 1983). discusses this but I don't have the book to hand to specify which one. - Hope >> and references to the reproduction of the costume worn by >> Princess Elizabeth in the 1546 portrait at Windsor" and the name of >> the pdf was Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf) that did talk a little about >> the petticoat: > > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Images/Sources_for_Elizabeth.pdf _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 15:21:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KLBMs018919 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:21:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21KLCS8003251; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:21:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21KKR53068959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:20:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KKFae062313; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:20:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21KK7GV062109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:20:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEXnp-0001Bc-GC; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:20:05 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:20:05 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:20:05 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} References: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:21:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44060238.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting "Sharon at Collierfam.com" : > Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her > sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 16:36:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21LaCmI021021 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:36:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21LaD7m001348; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:36:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21LYEH5079889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:34:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21LXxI7031610; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:34:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21LXoeY031438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:33:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:29997 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEYxE-0003PZ-Hq for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:33:53 -0600 Message-ID: <000f01c63d77$d2a09660$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245><001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub><6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245><010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> <20060301141714.imyu175194ww0s04@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (wasPrincessElizabeth) Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:33:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:36:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440613CD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" > So how is "a garment with a stiffened bodice" different from a boned > kirtle, and how is that *fundamentally* different from a corset? (aside > from the obvious thing that a corset in and of itself doesn't > have an attached skirt -- which is why I said "fundamentally") Well, it's different, and it's not. Having a separate garment devoted to the stiffening IS an important distinction; think of it in terms of bras. Before the bra, there was a garment that provided bust support, but that bust support was only a part of a whole garment. So are bras different than corsets? Well, yes, and no. Same basic end; very different means. While some of the bodices were boned, they seem to have been boned very lightly until the last third of the 16thC; most common would have been just a busk. Far more common than boning would have been the use of a slightly stiffer fabric, as with the parchet in the inventory I quoted, or at most buckram: "...some by wastes of wyre at the paste wyfes hand." So, though they are stiffened, the stiffening is pretty minor; the stiffening effect of the bodice isn't likely to be enough to even warrant being made into a separate garment. Also, the skirt is an integral part of the garment not only in terms of being actually sewn onto it, but in terms of the function of the whole garment. This whole garment was used to provide the right fundamental shape for the style; that style included a firm body, and it included full skirts and the illusion of large hips. When farthingales come into fashion, the kirtle or petticoat worn under it performs the important function of protecting your legs from drafts. Attaching that skirt to the bodice is important in functional terms; you want both the form-changing bodice part and the leg-warming skirt part as close to your body as possible, because they work best and are most comfortable that way. The whole garment is a solution to a specific body-shaping problem; a problem which has been solved in different ways over the centuries, and which must be solved in different ways the desired body shape changes over time. In the 13thC, the solution was breast-wrapping; in the 14th, it was the GFD; in the 15th, it was both a later version of the GFD and an early version of the bodice-skirt kirtle; in the early 16th, it was the vasquine and farthingale; in the late 16th, it was the payre of bodyes and farthingale. In the 17th it was high waist lines then boned bodices; in the 18th it was stays and panniers; in the 19th it was corsets and hoops; in the 20th & 21st it is bras and bike shorts. So are they all fundamentally different? Yes. No. Both! Same basic end; very different means. -E House (Help! I've been answering emails from various sources for 5 and a half hours! Must stop while still have brain!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 18:15:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21NFkue023471 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:15:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21NFlA9006435; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:15:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21NExPC095781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:14:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21NEhLJ028808; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:14:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail7.tpgi.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21NEWkv028560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:14:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-219-164-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.164]) by mail7.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k21NEQ7x026036 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:14:28 +1100 Message-ID: <009201c63d85$e13ace30$a4dbf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:14:22 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:15:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44062B23.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > As far as I know the kirtle from this period does not have short sleeves > but > this doesn't mean there wasn't some with short sleeves. Does your source > for > short sleeve kirtles state where one can find the it? I would be > interested. > Hope all this makes sense. > De > Recovering from bronchitis so brain not quite pass first gear. I'm probably the one who gave her the idea of a short sleeved kirtle http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/kirtle/kirtle.htm I don't have direct evidence of short sleeved kirtles worn with this gown. It's really conjecture based on some early 16th century and late 15th century pictures of working women with short sleeved kirtles (mainly the Da Costa Hours here http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/) and the fact that it's the most effective way of attaching the false sleeves that I have tried so far. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 18:47:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Nledl024312 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:47:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k21Nlf0J017903; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:47:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Nl6TI001702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:47:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Nl0MH061139; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:47:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav4.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21Nktdx060934 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:46:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:46:49 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:46:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009201c63d85$e13ace30$a4dbf5dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:46:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Mar 2006 23:46:49.0646 (UTC) FILETIME=[689BCCE0:01C63D8A] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:47:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406329D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I couldn't remember who stated the information of short sleeve kirtle. I kept some and mostly didn't keep the contact information, just the messages. Thanks for the link. I will note it and put it in my files. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth > >> As far as I know the kirtle from this period does not have short sleeves >> but >> this doesn't mean there wasn't some with short sleeves. Does your source >> for >> short sleeve kirtles state where one can find the it? I would be >> interested. >> Hope all this makes sense. >> De >> Recovering from bronchitis so brain not quite pass first gear. > > I'm probably the one who gave her the idea of a short sleeved kirtle > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/kirtle/kirtle.htm I don't have direct > evidence of short sleeved kirtles worn with this gown. It's really > conjecture based on some early 16th century and late 15th century pictures > of working women with short sleeved kirtles (mainly the Da Costa Hours > here http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/) and the fact that it's the most > effective way of attaching the false sleeves that I have tried so far. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 19:00:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2200fs1024643 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:00:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2200gED021909; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:00:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2200PPV003571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:00:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2200Nda073242; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:00:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2200HZk073123 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:00:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28165 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:32:21 -0600 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:32:18 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Prado Magdalen's skirt (was: short sleeved kirtle) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:00:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440635AA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ > is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces Actually, the trapezoids do not alternate. They are all placed with the short side up, so that they contribute to the flare of the skirt. (This is much clearer in person, on the painting, than in any reproduction.) The trapezoidal shape becomes less pronounced further down the skirt, where the shapes are both larger and closer to rectangular. There are I think five trapezoid rows, separated by horizontal strips (four in all) maybe two inches wide, forming essentially an alternating tiered pattern of stitching. There are also strips placed vertically alongside the lacing opening. We have had long discussions of this on the list before ... let's see, here's a post I wrote on July 26, 2002: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?l=hcos02&s=15th%20century%20female%20dress&Cmd=Match+2 This wasn't the first time we talked about this. Aha, here's an earlier thread, from January 2000: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?s=van+der+Weden+&l=hcos00 See in particular my post on Jan. 23, and the ones following that, which is where we talk about the skirt. But IIRC we also talk about pin-on sleeves and the "Fram air filter" hat in that thread. (Both of those topics keep coming up, every year or so, as the list population changes and new people come in.) The theory about the skirt that I find most interesting was, I think, Teddy's: That these may not be separate pieces of fabric arranged together, but rather stitching lines from the fur lining. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 19:03:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2203jNN024722 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:03:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2203ksX023152; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:03:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2202tNW003893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:02:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2202ts7075405; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:02:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxsf03.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf03.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2202otS075242 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:02:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.132]) by mxsf03.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k2202Z9S012704 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:02:35 -0500 Received: from 71-10-244-96.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com (HELO familyroom) ([71.10.244.96]) by mxip02a.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 01 Mar 2006 19:02:36 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,158,1139202000"; d="scan'208"; a="2001773305:sNHT26441228" From: "The Foxes" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:02:40 -0500 Message-ID: <003001c63d8c$9f606bd0$0502a8c0@familyroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:03:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44063662.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO More short sleeved 15th century images.... http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/mediator.exe?F=C&L=08100001&I=000017 (parent page http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/Notice.php?O=08100001) http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/mediator.exe?F=C&L=08100062&I=000003 (parent page http://gallica.bnf.fr/scripts/Notice.php?O=08100062) http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/grands/399.htm http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/grands/ca066.htm http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/feuils/ages/index2.htm http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/grands/182.htm Good luck... -annette -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Hope Greenberg Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:42 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} There are several images of working women in the DaCosta Hours who are wearing the short sleeve/protective sleeve combo. Here they are: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/work/index.html And as Suzi added, quite a few late 15th century versions of short sleeved gowns. Here are some (scroll down to the "kirtle" section). I notice this has become a very popular look in SCA/Ren Faire circles. http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a bit of a close-up: http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg (A couple examples of the odd hat as well.) Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. - Hope Kimiko wrote: >> Hmmmm... maybe I am putting 2+3 and getting 7 here, but could this >> image below be an example of a short sleeved kirtle with an attached >> sleeve? Suzi Clarke added: > http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/m/michele/index.html > And there are several short sleeved garments in paintings by Rogier van > der Weyden, c. 1450, one of which clearly shows the pin holding the > sleeve on, although this may actually be from the shoulder strap. > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > The Descent from the Cross (huge, in the Prado in Madrid. She is wearing > what looks like a gown made from oblongs of wool - quite fascinating- I > spent ages in front of it and still haven't worked it out!). (Also > called the Deposition from the Cross) > http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/weyden/decent.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 20:31:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k221Vqfm027210 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:31:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k221Vr9l018914; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:31:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k221VMqF021176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:31:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k221VKga052359; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:31:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k221VGKu052266 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.12a.6f5954c9 (4402) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:31:08 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <12a.6f5954c9.3137a4dc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:31:08 EST Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:31:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44064B09.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Question (sort of) - if you have a query about something on Ninya's site, why don't you e-mail her and ask? Only say that cos I've seen questions about my own stuff on assorted lists before and felt the need to point out that they could have just asked me...:-) Debs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 21:15:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k222Fa02028401 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:15:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k222FbA0032662; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:15:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k222F2Ko027416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:15:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k222EpX1091464; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:14:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52813.mail.yahoo.com (web52813.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k222EC55090958 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:14:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 69023 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Mar 2006 02:14:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ZzxMBidB9rFKjN9uENvWjDDR1EDjwclyEETIQOfgEB68eHJL2mfYebM5VdVzkUDhje04tb0+bKFAz3C0lSwE6KJiX9akQqTis3ybqM1XVCyfyNuEFcsYblhRIWmTUcMeXrtBhdQYX1IqJzA/8iHVSoFdmVY2abxTUQNZU7QG7Cw= ; Message-ID: <20060302021407.69021.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52813.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:14:07 PST Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:14:07 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke To: h-costume@indra.com, TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:15:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44065549.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian cap? I've googled to no avail. Thank you! KP --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 23:07:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2247SC0031447 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:07:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2247Q12003591; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:07:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2246hQk039927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:06:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2246eup080736; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:06:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2246am3080660 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:06:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BA71A36167 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:35 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:50 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20060302021407.69021.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:07:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44066F7E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Would it not be a Phrygian style hat? -----Original Message----- Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian cap? I've googled to no avail. Thank you! KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 1 23:51:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k224pSmv032321 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:51:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k224pT6N017845; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:51:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k224pD6i044657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k224pCsx015782; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:51:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52813.mail.yahoo.com (web52813.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k224p9GY015648 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 21:51:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 24942 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Mar 2006 04:51:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5woJ8jNBcqUoG5Ydtz/buuS6RspeEvL5ucJULOwEN19dGNo2WgOTm87YY7X0dQIAmbUGTr4JiswxBCUHMhKnyJoErY3iEdBvRz53oKRV3MXtlFTS0TkMvkfqJ+78f7/KGhpJUSylLboMcQVY3weMmYI0X091yfVATM3+895JEvM= ; Message-ID: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.248.213.27] by web52813.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:51:03 PST Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:51:03 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:51:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440679D1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) otsisto wrote: Would it not be a Phrygian style hat? -----Original Message----- Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian cap? I've googled to no avail. Thank you! KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 00:02:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2252bCb032577 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:02:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2252com021658; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:02:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2252QOj045900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:02:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2252PJd024456; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:02:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2252KEW024389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:02:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.233] (pool180-61.patriot.net [209.249.180.61]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k2252DTO007575 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:02:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:02:08 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:02:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44067C6E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Kind of like a Smurf hat... It's soft and fits to the head, except for a tip at the top that tends to point or lie forward. -Carol >Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > > >otsisto wrote: > Would it not be a Phrygian style hat? > >-----Original Message----- >Could someone either describe or point me to a picture of an Alexandrian >cap? I've googled to no avail. > >Thank you! >KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 00:04:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22544YG032619 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:04:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k225455x016654; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:04:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2253nKP046035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:03:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2253nFj025556; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:03:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2253jEQ025431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:03:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEfyc-00021S-SJ; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:03:46 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:03:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20060302000346.76w8mzif3ogkcgkk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:03:46 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap References: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060302045103.24940.qmail@web52813.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:04:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44067CC5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Kathryn Parke : > Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 00:06:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2256O9e032677 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:06:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2256PFL022818; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:06:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2256EQo046361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2256DTe027486; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22567qx027314 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:06:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.21a.8ff38b6 (3940) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:05:59 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <21a.8ff38b6.3137d737@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:05:59 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waugh's 1844 Corset To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:06:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44067D51.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 2/28/2006 5:50:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: > I'm not sure what a "block" is. Is that the same thing as a muslin? > What we used to in school call a "sloper". What some pattern companies call a "fitting shell". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 01:27:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k226RQV0001999 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:27:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k226RPY6017123; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:27:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k226QE15058524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k226Q8PT096262; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k226Q39O096212 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:26:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20l3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.163] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FEhGE-0005yZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:26:03 -0500 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060301232738.02b856e8@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:34:44 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200602280745.k1S7jngB066159@net.indra.com> References: <200602280745.k1S7jngB066159@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Quality of clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 01:27:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406904D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I shoulda known that my ASCII art would get messed up in translation. Oh, well. I have about 8 pairs of the Land's End cotton knit pants. Love them. I've totally worn out at least 5 pair. Or, I DID love them, till they changed the sizing. Now even the talls are too short and the crotch length is too - I hate it when the pants are hip-huggers when they're not supposed to be..... Sandy At 01:45 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:12:22 -0500 >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >Subject: Re: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing > >I'm 5' 1", and I've always had the same problem with pants until Lands' End >changed its sizing. :-) >Cathy Raymond > > >Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:17:47 -0800 >From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" >Subject: RE: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing > >Ditto. When I was in high school I had a 24" waist and 40" hips. Thank >goodness I've found Lands End. They have cotton knit, elastic waist pants, >in petite and tall, too. Sharon "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 02:02:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2272a9K003235 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:02:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2272b72026988; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:02:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22717UN061623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:01:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22716M2018996; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:01:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k22710e0018937 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:01:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 13413 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 23:00:53 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 13402, pid: 13407, t: 1.3273s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp4 with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 23:00:51 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060301224834.0239c878@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:00:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redwork In-Reply-To: References: <20060223162106.93222.qmail@web53311.mail.yahoo.com> <20060225112912.e9b7z9vthkow8ss8@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp4.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 02:02:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406988D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 07:41 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: > > > > Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more > > about the painting that this detail is from? > > >I would have to research it and right now my husband is creating a series of >internet classes for St. Leo University. I have to sneak in time to even >check my email. I know the lady is 16th c. English...I think the Countess of >Hardwick. The others I will have to check. I have care of 3 yr old and 6 >yr old foster daughters that I have to keep a close eye on, so can't get too >distracted when I'm alone with them. I will try. Maybe someone else can >find them sooner. > >Aspasia Moonwind The sitter is the Elizabeth, Lady Cavendish, later the Countess of Shrewsbury (better known as Bess of Hardwick). The portrait is dated c. 1557. There is a lovely reproduction of it on page 8 of "Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall Textiles" by Santina M. Levey. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 02:29:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k227TA6G008849 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:29:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k227T877001098; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:29:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k227SeW3063960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:28:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k227Sbeo037122; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:28:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k227SW9e037052 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:28:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 11307 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 23:28:32 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 11299, pid: 11300, t: 1.8331s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 23:28:30 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060301232736.0239cdf8@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:28:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 02:29:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44069EC4.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 04:44 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >I don't know about the short sleeves but she is whacking linen. I >saw a demonstration at my weaving guild and it was just like that. >I'm not familar with the term for the technique. Probably "breaking" flax. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 03:47:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k228ljam027280 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:47:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k228lkFL022838; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:47:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k228lSLG080775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lP9b090789; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lMw1090741 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6404831B for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:47:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060302004553.03567c58@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:46:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 03:47:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406B132.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 01:54 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were >obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have >continued in the later period? > >Suzi Thank you Suzi for sharing those links. I can only presume that such fashions would continue and evolve into the next century, but I don't know how much of a leap that really is. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 03:47:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k228ljUH027279 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:47:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k228lkKc016176; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 03:47:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k228lSdo080774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lO3k090778; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lLlr090718 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBD844850 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:47:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060302004434.036e8450@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:45:13 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle, air filter hat In-Reply-To: <8C80B5ECE8C9B40-1310-2572@mblk-r22.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C80B5ECE8C9B40-1310-2572@mblk-r22.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 03:47:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406B132.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 07:49 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >I recently came across this excellent web page covering both of these >subjects: > >http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ Thank you Tea Rose for that. I am not as familiar with images or styles of the century preceding, so that is a great help. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 04:32:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k229VvGD001999 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:31:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k229Vxcg004155; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:32:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k229VgTH094038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:31:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k229Vb3Q021269; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:31:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k229VXFu021144 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:31:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k229VRY21622.; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:31:27 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:31:27 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:31:15 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redwork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k229VXFu021144 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 04:32:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406BB8F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It's also reproduced in "The Art of Dress", where it's attributed to a follower of Hans Eworth. No explanation is offered for the inscription "Maria Regina". Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> joanmj@surewest.net 02/03/2006 07:00 >>> At 07:41 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: > > > > Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more > > about the painting that this detail is from? > > >I would have to research it and right now my husband is creating a series of >internet classes for St. Leo University. I have to sneak in time to even >check my email. I know the lady is 16th c. English...I think the Countess of >Hardwick. The others I will have to check. I have care of 3 yr old and 6 >yr old foster daughters that I have to keep a close eye on, so can't get too >distracted when I'm alone with them. I will try. Maybe someone else can >find them sooner. > >Aspasia Moonwind The sitter is the Elizabeth, Lady Cavendish, later the Countess of Shrewsbury (better known as Bess of Hardwick). The portrait is dated c. 1557. There is a lovely reproduction of it on page 8 of "Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall Textiles" by Santina M. Levey. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 08:16:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22DGTMq010485 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:16:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22DGUoi015491; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:16:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22DFvTP019881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:15:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22DFr74001437; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:15:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav17.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22DFoxU001376 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:15:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 05:15:47 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:15:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <12a.6f5954c9.3137a4dc@aol.com> Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:15:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2006 13:15:47.0212 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B409CC0:01C63DFB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:16:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406F02E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have written to her. She answered me quickly and said I could ask anytime. I just thought I'd pose a question to other costumers on the discussion boards. It really doesn't matter, but I can make the Princess Elizabeth garb now with confidence. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:31 PM Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth > > Question (sort of) - if you have a query about something on Ninya's site, > why > don't you e-mail her and ask? > > Only say that cos I've seen questions about my own stuff on assorted lists > before and felt the need to point out that they could have just asked > me...:-) > > Debs > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 09:08:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22E83QV011303 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:08:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22E84RF007750; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:08:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22E7HxY027394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:07:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22E7F4W047473; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:07:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22E7Cgl047413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from [64.186.88.122] (port=1540 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1FEoSU-0006Sm-EK for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:07:11 -0500 Message-ID: <4406FC08.9000409@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:07:04 -0500 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <42C192F1.2010200@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <42C192F1.2010200@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:08:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406FC44.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > > The waist would be a horizontal oval intersecting those points, right? > Not a shape which dips down from the horizontal while intersecting those > points. > > I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the > hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the > skirts properly. If you really want the skirts to hang properly do as the women of the victorian age did and take the excess off of the top of the skirt and not the bottom. That way the grainline is still horizontal at the bottom and the excess is taken off of the top, where the problem is... This keeps the vertical grainline straight all around. Kitty in SW PA USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 09:18:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22EIXCw011511 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:18:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22EIYn5012532; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:18:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22EI2Lo028662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:18:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22EHxXh056561; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:17:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22EHt0D056512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:17:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from [64.186.88.122] (port=1544 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1FEoct-0006ga-6Y for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:17:56 -0500 Message-ID: <4406FE8E.6020203@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:17:50 -0500 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050630112908.147EF15C81@mail03.powweb.com> In-Reply-To: <20050630112908.147EF15C81@mail03.powweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:18:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4406FEBA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Megan M. wrote: > I think it is more common than you think - I have the same issue. The > waistbands on my scrubs come up almost to my bra in front. And I don't know > why they cut them so high. *sigh* I guess that's why I like to sew. > -Megan > > for most of us it isn't the clothing which is cut high. it is our waists which have fallen in front. It happens when we have a bit to much tissue in front and weak stomach muscles allow it to fall, it creates a sway back which allows the waist to point downward in front. Kitty, who has done too many alterations for this problem. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:18:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FItGO013934 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:18:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FIuDF010502; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:18:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FIL7t041295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:18:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FIAfl014845; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:18:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k21MwSlF013237 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:58:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.193]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060301225822.PDJB3844.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:58:22 +1300 Received: from web1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([219.89.183.2]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060301225822.VAON16143.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@web1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:58:22 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] (really [219.89.183.2]) by web1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail vG.2.00.00.00 201-2161-108-101-20050407) with ESMTP id <20060301225821.VKEO420.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:58:21 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.1/272]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:58:21 +1300 Message-ID: <005601c63d83$a32be1d0$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:58:20 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:18:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070CE0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > > Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her > > sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. > > I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is > the apparrent arrangement of the pieces It's quite likely the shapes are caused by the fur lining. The fur would have to be pieced.Why they show through.... who knows. This was discussed somewhere.. I think the MedCos community. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/272 - Release Date: 1/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:21:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FLfrp014232 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:21:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FLhLu012041; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:21:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FL0M7042518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FKTvT017735; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:20:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k21NnZ7D063457 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 94742 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2006 23:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.226 with login) by smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2006 23:49:34 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060301234424.01de2c10@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:45:50 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> References: <002501c63d6b$fdc1cf50$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <20060301152005.uusk7amscgc0oswk@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:21:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070D87.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 20:20 01/03/2006, you wrote: >Quoting "Sharon at Collierfam.com" : > >>Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her >>sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. > >I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is >the apparrent arrangement of the pieces > >Susan >----- >Susan Farmer >sfarmer@goldsword.com >University of Tennessee >Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ That isn't the impression I got standing in front of it for ages last summer - it seemed almost to be a heavy wool type fabric. I longed to ask her to step down from the painting a minute and let me see. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:27:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FRHjw014581 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:27:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FRICD014865; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:27:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FQYVw044700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:26:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FQWSU026084; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:26:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k222cddX011338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:38:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEdiB-0004Ue-K7; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:38:39 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:38:39 -0500 Message-ID: <20060301213839.fik4jnvwye0cgw0s@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:38:39 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Prado Magdalen's skirt (was: short sleeved kirtle) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=21% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:27:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070ED7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Robin Netherton : > > On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >> I have *no* clue! It's rows of "alternating" trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ >> is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces > > Actually, the trapezoids do not alternate. They are all placed with the > short side up, so that they contribute to the flare of the skirt. (This is > much clearer in person, on the painting, than in any reproduction.) The > trapezoidal shape becomes less pronounced further down the skirt, where > the shapes are both larger and closer to rectangular. You know, of course, that you're right! I looked again. I'm thinking that I"ve got a book that has a Really Good Copy of that painting, but I'm not finding it. I'm pretty sure that it's in the book on Campin. The authors (Thurleman -- u with an umlaut) present their case that it's actually Campin and not Weyden that is the painter here. If you're an Or Nue fan -- it is believed that Campin did the cartoons for the Vestments for the Order of the Golden Fleece -- and there are some **AWESOME** enlargements in this book of some of those figures. > > We have had long discussions of this on the list before ... let's see, > here's a post I wrote on July 26, 2002: Cool! Thanks for the links. That was before I joined this list. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:27:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FRVF1014605 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:27:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FRXoH032670; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:27:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FPqQS044451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FPepS024861; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:25:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k222TsQV004861 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:29:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m107.in-tch.com [216.166.191.107]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k222LCA25335 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:21:12 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <005701c63da2$31a2ffc0$6bbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060301010319.03760f70@64.87.54.245><6.2.3.4.0.20060301093224.01d81dc0@127.0.0.1><4405A4BF.3030107@uvm.edu> <20060301113454.bne6ffafm57sokcc@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:37:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:27:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070EE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Uh...I don't think it's a matter of cabbaging, if that's a word? ;o) I bet it's indicative of a fur lining. Several other paintings on that website depict fur-lined gowns/skirts, and have similar lines on the skirts. We've talked about something similar before (the painting's one of the ones on the website, which is what made me think "hmmm.....I wonder...." --sue (from montana) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} > Quoting Hope Greenberg : > > > > > > I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a > > bit of a close-up: > > http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg > > I've always liked that one. Looks like it was made from The Remnant Bag > [funny, how all the pieces look alike instead of "patchwork!" :-)] It > would be an interesting exercise to do some math on that painting and > come up with a size for those little trapezoids! Let's see, there's > 2.5 from her waist to her knee so that puts them in the 6-8" tall > range. Reckon that this skirt *was* produced from the cabbage? > > > > > Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian > > 15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either > > Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin > > Mary--but I'll have to go look it up. > > > > You'll have to let us know what the paintings are when you get the > information -- they may be online somewher! > > Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:28:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FStLU014666 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:28:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FSuO3030898; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:28:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FSYpx045341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:28:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FSUNR028856; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:28:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k228lLxk090713 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:47:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2034415C for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:47:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060302004000.035c74e8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:44:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was PrincessElizabeth) In-Reply-To: <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245> <001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> <010501c63d59$12dfd340$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:28:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070F38.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 09:53 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: >Well, this is going to be the short version! I have a room full of new >cloth and I want to go sew now! =} Hey, I don't blame you. I hope you got in some good sewing time. >Hope this helps. You can distribute it/use it for teaching, but please >keep my name attached! >Elena House I really appreciate your time in explaining all of that. It's a lot to digest, but I am ok with that. I eagerly await your long version when you have the time. And I will check the "The Corset: A Cultural History" by Valerie Steele book. I already have Corsets & Crinolines, and will re-read it (which I haven't done in a long while). And I will definitely give you credits in my lecture. Thank you again, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:30:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FU577014702 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FU6b5016295; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FTcFD045670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FTbhm030417; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:29:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22DQUgL010961 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:26:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k22DQNG20426.; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:26:23 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:26:23 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:26:14 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k22DQUgL010961 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:30:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070F7F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:30:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FUhEX014740 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FUiaZ001202; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FUFSg045846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FU8ZJ031105; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22EENrD053306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:14:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from [64.186.88.122] (port=1542 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1FEoZT-0005ne-8T for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:14:24 -0500 Message-ID: <4406FDB8.7020609@floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:14:16 -0500 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:30:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070FA4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > At 02:12 PM 6/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > > >> I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the >> hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the >> skirts properly. >> >> -- >> Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > > You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that > problem, like me. I cannot buy trousers to fit, the waistband sits in > the correct place in the back half of me but I have to fold over the top > of the front of the trousers. Usually at least by the width of the > waistband, sometimes more. > > Cheers, > Danielle > If there are no rivets at the waistband, take the waistband off at the front, cut the front down the appropriate amount at the CF tapering to nothing at the sides, and reapply the waistband. you may have to ease a bit of excess fabric in or make pleats on each side, but fabric, being made of threads, usually is fairly easy to ease in, (work extra fabric into a seam so it doesn't show that there is extra fabric on one side of the seam compared to the other). Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:31:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FVLA6014763 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:31:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FVMEv031600; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:31:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FUs42046078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FUnxF032057; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:30:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22EjwhS081890 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:46:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.28]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FEp41-0007Mt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:45:57 -0500 Message-ID: <5742410.1141310757361.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:45:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:31:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44070FCA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was disappointed that, among all these images of the Phrygian or "liberty" cap, Google did NOT find the college seal of my alma mater, Dickinson College (est. 1773, Carlisle, PA). Our seal has three objects: a telescope, a Bible, and the Phrygian cap, along with the motto that we are the fortress of liberty! http://www.dickinson.edu/logo/faq10.html Costume-related: Is Dickinson the only college with an article of clothing in its heraldry? --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer Dickinson Class of '68 -----Original Message----- >From: "Susan B. Farmer" >Sent: Mar 2, 2006 12:03 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap > >Quoting Kathryn Parke : > >> Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) >> > >google image search is your friend >http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search > >Susan >----- >Susan Farmer >sfarmer@goldsword.com >University of Tennessee >Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:35:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FZOc6014926 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:35:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22FZQ1L019070; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:35:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FZCfK047202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:35:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FZBJb037432; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:35:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FZ6Il037223 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:35:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.158.60dadc2c (16035) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:34:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea3440710a023e; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:34:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060301232738.02b856e8@pop.radiks.net> References: <200602280745.k1S7jngB066159@net.indra.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20060301232738.02b856e8@pop.radiks.net> Message-Id: <07a4bd6382022beebcdc6bef92ea7e5e@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Quality of clothing Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:34:55 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:35:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440710BE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k22FZOc6014926 Status: RO Sandy- Tell them you don't like the change. Can't hurt and they might actually listen to a customer. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 2, 2006, at 12:34 AM, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > I shoulda known that my ASCII art would get messed up in translation. > Oh, well. > I have about 8 pairs of the Land's End cotton knit pants. Love them. > I've totally worn out at least 5 pair. Or, I DID love them, till they > changed the sizing. Now even the talls are too short and the crotch > length is too - I hate it when the pants are hip-huggers when they're > not supposed to be..... > > Sandy > > At 01:45 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:12:22 -0500 >> From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing >> >> I'm 5' 1", and I've always had the same problem with pants until >> Lands' End >> changed its sizing. :-) >> Cathy Raymond >> >> >> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:17:47 -0800 >> From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" >> Subject: RE: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing >> >> Ditto. When I was in high school I had a 24" waist and 40" hips. Thank >> goodness I've found Lands End. They have cotton knit, elastic waist >> pants, >> in petite and tall, too. Sharon > > "Those Who Fail To Learn History > Are Doomed to Repeat It; > Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- > Why They Are Simply Doomed. > > Achemdro'hm > "The Illusion of Historical Fact" > -- C.Y. 4971 > > Andromeda > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 10:52:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Fq1AJ016187 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:52:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Fq3kq027468; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:52:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FkUC2049115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:46:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Fk2BL048754; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:46:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Fji9t048393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:45:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEpzo-0006s8-Bd; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:45:40 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:45:40 -0500 Message-ID: <20060302104540.8y6vmkdvl61w4skk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:45:40 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redwork References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:52:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440714A3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Kate M Bunting : > It's also reproduced in "The Art of Dress", where it's attributed to > a follower of Hans Eworth. No explanation is offered for the > inscription "Maria Regina". > > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> joanmj@surewest.net 02/03/2006 07:00 >>> > At 07:41 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: >> > >> > Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more >> > about the painting that this detail is from? ^^^^^^ Oops, sorry; yall misunderstood -- I meant the *detail* of the painting where Christ is carrying the cross is from. The other two were full portraits, so I made the obviously invalid assumption that the word "detail" would be enough information. My bad. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 11:00:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22G0P9m017634 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:00:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22G0QoA031605; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:00:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Fslg5050425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Fsj9M057903; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:54:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22FsgUJ057792 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:54:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04103 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:25:28 -0600 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:25:27 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth} In-Reply-To: <005601c63d83$a32be1d0$0401010a@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:00:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407169A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, michaela wrote: > It's quite likely the shapes are caused by the fur lining. The fur > would have to be pieced.Why they show through.... who knows. > > This was discussed somewhere.. I think the MedCos community. No, here; see my note under a new subject line. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 11:50:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Go5Gc019949 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:50:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Go6HE024796; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:50:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22GnRm5060977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:49:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22GnIm0016999; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:49:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22GnFn4016826 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:49:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF2FA302F for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:48:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <44072202.304@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:50:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407223E.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? > Hydrogen peroxide is pretty mild, but if the oxy-stuff didn't work you may not have luck with this either. Tried sun-bleaching it? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 11:50:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Gorm8019992 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:50:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Got8B024841; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:50:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Gofd2061236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:50:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22GoeJv018275; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:50:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k22GoZDM018055 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:50:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 94267 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2006 16:50:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AD7tFclGD1vMh7zx9EJvb5fcY0Wh5DqL/faxjd7xW7AF+6cmhoWbHEMm9kblkwKTmJk86Xrev+k2hFZUqL3+fYh7DR+pGW5w5exfmml0ZfgUoeDo5tTtJqa9WETboLgsBhttdfouiTpVXOn7ThRNEtksBzwrHijzsLUir1t2r1k= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?70.27.127.33?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.33 with plain) by smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 16:50:28 -0000 Message-ID: <4407225E.2070609@rogers.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:50:38 -0500 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <4406FDB8.7020609@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <4406FDB8.7020609@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:50:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407226F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings-- > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: >> At 02:12 PM 6/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >> >>> I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that >>> the hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd >>> hem the skirts properly. >>> >>> -- >>> Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent >> >> >> You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that >> problem, like me. I cannot buy trousers to fit, the waistband sits >> in the correct place in the back half of me but I have to fold over >> the top of the front of the trousers. Usually at least by the width >> of the waistband, sometimes more. >> What's been a lifesaver for me lately are the pants they're selling with the lowered waistbands. I'm not talking hip-huggers---I've found that the "Ann" and "Marisa" styles at Ann Taylor Loft, both of which are cut slightly below the natural waist, fit me wonderfully and take care of that rolling waistband issue. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 13:33:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22IXfnV022871 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:33:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22IXghd008790; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:33:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22IWsUE083086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22IWYwE027809; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22IWQt5027625 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:32:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.25]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FEsbB-00021u-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:32:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20466941.1141324345872.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:32:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] slightly O-T greetings of the (passing) season Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:33:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44073A86.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hello the list-- My truelove has kindly given me parking space on his website for the photo I took after our FIRST snowfall of the season and intended as a greeting card for the h-cost list. Today we're having what MIGHT be the last snowfall of the season. Who would expect in a modest little neighborhood in Fairfield Connecticut to drive around the corner and find a pair of snowpersons one of whom was wearing a HENNIN? I assume a little girl wanted to give her Hallowe'en costume one more day to shine....Anyway, with the homeowner's permission I took a photo of Snow Maiden and Swain. Go to http://www.doingagatha.com/ and scroll down to the photo at the lower left, just over the "Out of Pocket Productions" paragraph. He'll keep this on the page for a week or so, and I hope you see and enjoy it. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. Doing Agatha is an independent film written and produced by my truelove and soon (oh god please!) to be released. We are NOT using the h-cost list to promote the film; I don't have a website of my own to post pictures. Of course I do imagine you'll be amused and fascinated by the costuming in the film photo.... RAB _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 14:13:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JDcqY024775 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:13:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JDdfu026187; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:13:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22JD48M091548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22JCvYX072737; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com (msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22JCrRl072577 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos1.cos.agilent.com (relcos1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.239]) by msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E9779CA for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com (wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.188]) by relcos1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01672A6 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosbh01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.125]) by wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:12:42 -0700 Received: from wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.80]) by wcosbh01.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:41 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:12:41 -0700 Message-ID: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B0781DCF3@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Fit of a victorian bodice Thread-Index: AcY+KP2QJq902t2/SL6AZht5QZQ5KAAApnOg From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2006 19:12:41.0962 (UTC) FILETIME=[477024A0:01C63E2D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k22JCrRl072577 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:13:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440743E3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) it extends about 3" into the bust, and about the same length across the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice fits beautifully... I also had this problem on my princess-line tea gown using their pattern... But I thought it was due to the weight of the fabric, but that can't be the case for my current bodice... Does anyone have any suggestions for how to handle this fitting problem? Should I make the armhole bigger (and if so, should it be lower side front, lower side back, or the bottom? I'm afraid if I widen the armhole it'll just pull the armhole out of shape due to the pull...) should I let the side seam out a little bit? I thought about putting padding inside the bodice ther! e, but there is very little room... And the bodice is satin so it shows every little crinkle or dent - unfortunately you can even follow the line of the lace on the chemise if you look closely. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you, -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 14:20:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JKJIY025090 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:20:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JKIBE029335; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:20:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22JJNX2092930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:19:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22JJKKg080254; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:19:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22JJHkN080183 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:19:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id k1so516866nzf for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:19:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=YxmqNmQVdPy9Ocjvssd+q+IFZMGKYa5hGzX2bGY6RYhcjL9w3OkqHkUmZ2qY7oT/toYXCoCprII+w0N1CDjF94h/UtPBWsYYSiJGmZqmzukAye6rfqmMkrgK/UntfkPFV0LEx+rNawF+AN+ZjdSsF8Qw7tMak/ca8pKjh9hB5qE= Received: by 10.64.96.20 with SMTP id t20mr125607qbb; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:19:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:19:16 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k22JJHkN080183 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:20:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44074572.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've >found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of >which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in >the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I >don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? Kate I collect, some whom I live with, would say "amass" vintage linens, quilts & unmentionables. Mostly I use baby soap, or whatever you wash your favorite sweaters in. If really done in, a gentle bleaching detergent. Air dry. Repeat until happy. When you finally get it clean enough, hot press those beautiful crisp folds & store them away. I would start with the gentlest treatment first on the most "replaceable" or hopeless item. See what happens. Work your way up to gentle, warm water & the oxy cleaner. You will probably never get the "foxing" out (those rust colored stains). Foxing can be caused by contact with acidic stuff (like wood, common paper and food debris) among other things. No sure how old "quite old" is but if really, really old, then you might want to stop at the cold, clear water rinse or cold water gentlest soap so that colors dont run. Truly magnificent items should be taken to a professional. My spare mom gave me two heavily embroidered unused gigantic table cloths, buffet cloth & each with 12 napkins each all with the original gift card as given to her mother. She said, "My mother stored this for 40 years. I have stored it for 40 years. Now it's your turn." I havent dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer in my cedar closet. Some items are truly hopelessly stained, moth eaten or torn and I'm not above recycling them into something else like a supportasse collar or petticoat. I have one of each made from a previous pillow case & table linen respectively. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 14:37:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JbfXV025592 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:37:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JbfdM004432; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:37:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Jb7r6096846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:37:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jb3bh000845; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:37:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jb01I000788 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.25]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FEtbf-0000Q4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:36:59 -0500 Message-ID: <28978545.1141328219623.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:36:59 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:37:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44074985.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I just ran down to the basement to copy the label for this product-- I've had good luck with it but have used it on only two pieces, so I can't say I've done exhaustive testing! It's called RESTORATION, and it claims "Revives color and freshness to antique linens...removes most stains." Manufactured by Engleside Products of Lancaster, PA. "No acids, chlorine, or phosphates. Safe for all fabrics and colors. Environmentally safe." I followed the directions on the label and was pleased with the results. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- >From: Cin >Sent: Mar 2, 2006 2:19 PM >To: h-cost >Subject: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen > >>My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her >house. I've >found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old >and interesting, a lot of >which have food stains on. I've washed them >with Vanish (if you don't have that in >the US, it's a new >oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I >>don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? > >Kate >I collect, some whom I live with, would say "amass" vintage linens, >quilts & unmentionables. Mostly I use baby soap, or whatever you wash >your favorite sweaters in. If really done in, a gentle bleaching >detergent. Air dry. Repeat until happy. When you finally get it clean >enough, hot press those beautiful crisp folds & store them away. > >I would start with the gentlest treatment first on the most >"replaceable" or hopeless item. See what happens. Work your way up >to gentle, warm water & the oxy cleaner. You will probably never get >the "foxing" out (those rust colored stains). Foxing can be caused by >contact with acidic stuff (like wood, common paper and food debris) >among other things. > >No sure how old "quite old" is but if really, really old, then you >might want to stop at the cold, clear water rinse or cold water >gentlest soap so that colors dont run. > >Truly magnificent items should be taken to a professional. My spare >mom gave me two heavily embroidered unused gigantic table cloths, >buffet cloth & each with 12 napkins each all with the original gift >card as given to her mother. She said, "My mother stored this for 40 >years. I have stored it for 40 years. Now it's your turn." I havent >dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with >brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. > > >To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in >buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer >in my cedar closet. > >Some items are truly hopelessly stained, moth eaten or torn and I'm >not above recycling them into something else like a supportasse collar >or petticoat. I have one of each made from a previous pillow case & >table linen respectively. > >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 14:44:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JiMQC025786 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:44:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22JiOar007541; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:44:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22JhxAN098133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:44:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jhu6d008545; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:43:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jhk0B008310 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:43:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.21b.90a2487 (58677) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:43:34 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:43:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:44:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44074B18.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/2/2006 2:26:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cinbarnes@gmail.com writes: I havent dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. I would stick to sparkling water--even white wine can stain! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 15:27:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22KRN2j027131 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:27:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22KROwZ028388; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:27:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22KR3C4007202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:27:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22KQvMJ056627; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:26:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k22KQrLU056456 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:26:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: (qmail 17008 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2006 20:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@71.142.63.174 with plain) by smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 20:26:44 -0000 Message-ID: <44075504.7020104@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:26:44 -0800 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:27:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407552C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Cin wrote: > To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in > buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer > in my cedar closet. I have two "hopeless" linen table cloths that I use to wrap the "non-hopless" ones in while storing them. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 15:47:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Kl2Ip027725 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:47:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Kl3sr005922; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:47:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Kk734010420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:46:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Kk2S7076638; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Kjwf7076577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:46:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:16661 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEugV-00080m-7s for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:46:05 -0600 Message-ID: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:47:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440759C7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I really have no idea where to start with the research. (The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm interested in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with that angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And it's not the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time experimenting blind, because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is so expensive per yard. And is this what was called Or Nue'? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 18:03:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N3sN8030325 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:03:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N3sBB004940; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:03:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22N2vkX047115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22N2eGL024367; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:02:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22Jeaoi004888 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:40:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.e2.25ff07fc (58677) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:40:23 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:40:22 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:03:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440779DA.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sometimes the discoloration is actually a chemical change of the fibers, so nothing will change it. But, by all means, try sun bleaching. If all else fails, can you cut around the stained parts to make things--women's undergarments, for example. Ann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 18:05:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N5LsY030358 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:05:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N5KYo024087; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:05:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22N4UVi047322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22N4S6Q026400; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:04:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22K5mYw032738 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.155] (pm5-155.eos.net [205.133.149.155]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k22K5UcN002037 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:05:39 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:53:35 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603012347.k21Nl1WU061157@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: body shaping (was corset myth) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:05:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44077A30.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Elena House wrote: > The whole garment is a solution to a specific body-shaping problem; a > problem which has been solved in different ways over the centuries, and > which must be solved in different ways the desired body shape changes over > time. In the 13thC, the solution was breast-wrapping; in the 14th, it was > the GFD; in the 15th, it was both a later version of the GFD and an early > version of the bodice-skirt kirtle; in the early 16th, it was the vasquine > and farthingale; in the late 16th, it was the payre of bodyes and > farthingale. Both your replies to the original query were fascinating! I loved all the quotes. But now I am interested in a different item listed above. When you say that in the 13th century the solution to desired body shaping was breast wrapping, what exactly do you mean? I'm sure they did something, but I am not familiar with this. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 18:06:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N6SIR030379 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:06:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22N6SeL006085; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:06:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22N5DnZ047515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:05:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22N5CpT027291; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:05:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail-10.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-10.bluehost.com [67.138.240.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k22Lt4kj051340 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:55:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from g.vinje@drakt.org) Received: (qmail 15263 invoked by uid 0); 2 Mar 2006 21:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box77.bluehost.com) (70.103.189.77) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2006 21:55:00 -0000 Received: from 193.84-48-130.nextgentel.com ([84.48.130.193] helo=acer) by box77.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEvlD-0001hn-OX for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:55:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:54:46 +0100 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "G.Vinje" Organization: privat Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Win32, build 3865) X-Identified-User: {515:box77.bluehost.com:draktorg:drakt.org} {sentby:smtp 84.48.130.193 authed with g.vinje@drakt.org} X-PopBeforeSMTPSenders: g.vinje@drakt.org,hotpop@drakt.org X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box77.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [515 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - drakt.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:06:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44077A74.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600, E House wrote: > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic > stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with > technique? If you want one book that covers just about everything there is to cover except patterns; Metal thread embroidery by Jane Lemon Batsford (March 28, 2005) ISBN 071348926X It covers historical and modern stitches, thread, techniques,equipment,photoes of extant pieces including Elisabethan and more. I have bought others, but this is the one I keep returning to. And the only one I've found truly useful for historical goldwork anytime within my period of interest(1200-1670). Some websites worth looking at ; Or Nue http://medieval.webcon.net.au/technique_or_nue.html Or Nue (Shaded Gold) http://www.advancenet.net/jscole/ornue.html And a brief introduction to historical goldwork; All that glitters... http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/Goldwork.html Gunvor -- "Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov" Anders (nesten 4 år) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 18:49:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Nn38G031799 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:49:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k22Nn40G021298; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:49:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22NmO1m056335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:48:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22NmLE9073928; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:48:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.192.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k22NmH3G073745 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:48:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter79.comcast.net ([204.127.197.179]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060302234811m14003dg5te>; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:48:11 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter79.comcast.net; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:48:10 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:48:10 +0000 Message-Id: <030220062348.22451.44078439000E6EE4000057B322007610649C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:49:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44078470.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The book I have is called "Goldwork" by Search Press. It has some history in it and shows how to do each of the techniques for goldwork. I've heard that the Jane Lemon book is the best though. Or nue' is the stitching of metal threads with a fine colored thread to make shaded or colored patterns. The gold threads cover the whole surface of the design and the spacing of the color stitching is varied to show more or less gold. Roscelin Well, I'm off to get packed to attend the Sewing Expo up in Puyallup, WA. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "E House" > I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I > work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, > stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the > sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early > 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I > really have no idea where to start with the research. > > (The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm interested > in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) > > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic > stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? > I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with that > angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And it's not > the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time experimenting blind, > because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is so expensive per yard. > > Andr is this what was called Or Nue'? > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 19:41:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230fYcN001002 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:41:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230fYJD007488; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:41:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k230UJG6064367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:30:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230U2CZ015733; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:30:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230TusG015638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:29:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:20249 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FEyBJ-0006sI-8c for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:30:06 -0600 Message-ID: <30ad01c63e59$99cf50f0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: body shaping (was corset myth) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:29:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:41:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440790BE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" > Both your replies to the original query were fascinating! I loved all the > quotes. But now I am interested in a different item listed above. When you > say that in the 13th century the solution to desired body shaping was > breast > wrapping, what exactly do you mean? I'm sure they did something, but I am > not familiar with this. That's a reference to a few mentions I've run across in books, or quotes from others who've read them. The one that sticks in my head best is from the 13th century, because it's the first mention I found--it's mentioned in "A History of Private Life, Vol II" (p363) and is from "La Cle' d'Amour" which is an anthology of 13thC works in the tradition of Ovid, containing advice on all sorts of things. I don't have an exact quote, but in this work, women whose breasts are too large are advised to bind them. Other references: Somewhen in the middle of the 12th century, an abbot, Gilbert of Hoyland, (created abbot 1150, died 1172) writes in "Sermones in Canticum Solomonis" that: "The breasts are most pleasing when they are of moderate size and eminence...They should be bound but not flattened, restrained with gentleness but not given too much license." This article: Waugh, Christina Frieder. "Well-Cut through the Body: Fitted Clothing in Twelfth-Century Europe", Dress (volume 26) 1999 (sorry, don't have any more info on it) discusses breastbinding in the 12thC, and contains another Gilbert of Hoyland quote: "I refer you to the devices of women, who cultivate and develop physical beauty and have mastered this art. For what are they more anxious to avoid in embellishing the bosom, than that the breasts be overgrown and shapeless and flabby?.....Therefore they constrain overgrown and flabby breasts with breast-bands, artfully remedying the shorcomings of nature." Line 13329 ff. from The Romance of the Rose, written about 1360, from the Charles Dahlberg translation [This is what my notes say, but this is from the second half, and I think that part was written at the end of the 13thC. Could this have been added in to a later version? or did my source just look at the wrong date?]: "If her breasts are too heavy she should take a scarf or towel to bind them against her chest and wrap it right around her ribs, securing it with needle and thread or by a knot; thus she can be active at her play." There's something about Eleanor of Aquitaine (12thC) and also an 8thC Lombardic reference, but I can't put my hands on them at the moment. Wish I could! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 19:53:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230raIu001412 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:53:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230rbeZ011987; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:53:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k230qSXk068498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:52:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230qNln037909; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230qIXN037758 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:52:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247f4.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.244]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DC113A50014 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:52:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c63e5c$bdf12a50$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:52:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:53:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44079391.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO 1st: Dont buy or borrow Kreinicks book about metal thread embroidery. Its just crap, a lot of cross stitch patterns using metallic threads. But a very useable good book, very small, but cheap is Needle Crafts 20 Goldwork. Its published by Search Press Limited, Tunbridge Wells, Kent - England. Also their larger book Goldwork Revised and expanded edition. I started my goldwork to outline ordinary embroideries, f.eks flowers and leaves with gold passing thread. Then i went on and used bullion threads (hollow wrapped goldthreads (worms)). Goldspangels is also fun to use. Silver is another thing. It tarnishes much two quicly, and today its almost impossible to clean by others than experts. A warning i want to advise everybody about is using bullion threads on clothing. The ends of this fine goldthread, catches everything, and unravell itselfs. I spoke to Mauritia Kirchner about this recently, and she has the same problems.Wasnt a problem for the kings and nobels, they just baught a new outfit, but for us deadly, it is such a shame and expensive.Not a warning not to use it, but just that you wont get surprised! Very adictive hobby! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 19:55:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230ts6P001497 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:55:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k230ttjR013028; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:55:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k230sCL1068801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:54:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230sBej039503; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:54:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k230rx5w039280 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:54:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247f4.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.244]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 434FCA5001A for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:53:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c63e5c$f8a71290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:54:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dangerous Liasions Fashion and Furniture Catalog X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:55:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407941B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I heard from 18th century womens list, that the catalog from the museum, is finally available............. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 20:41:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k231fBWx002741 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:41:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k231fCZ6028891; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:41:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k231etf3074945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k231ep0F079904; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k231emTQ079772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEzHk-0000gL-EE; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:40:48 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:40:48 -0500 Message-ID: <20060302204048.z9bgva42d78c0cko@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:40:48 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Or nue (was Re: [h-cost] Goldwork References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:41:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44079EB8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting E House : > > > And is this what was called Or Nue'? > Or nue is some of the most awesome needlework ever produced by human hands. The cardinal is Or Nue http://www.berlinembroidery.com/cardinal.htm The gold threads are couched down with red silk. How close together the couching stitches are makes the design. Here's some pictures http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid4/austria/vienna/museums/schatzkammer/order_of_the_golden_fleece/liturgical_vestments/ http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page486.html http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page473.html There's a book on the painter Campin by Thurleman that has some of the most awesome enlargements for these garments. Campin is believed to have produced the cartoons for the vestments. Here's a figure that I scanned from this book http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Embroidery/OGF_campinPage166top.jpg http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Embroidery/OGF_campinPage166.jpg generally, the faces and hands are done in split stitch. Jerusha -- who will learn to do this or die! ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 20:48:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k231mhXe002956 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:48:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k231mix1031166; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:48:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k231mLJX076127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:48:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k231mKn3086236; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav15.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k231mGVP086146 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:48:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:48:16 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:48:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:48:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 01:48:16.0203 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A25E9B0:01C63E64] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:48:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407A07C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It looks like some of the gold work done on the Japanese fabrics I saw in school. The gold was wrapped around a silk thread but you had to have an eyepiece to see it that close. It was fantastic details in the antique fabrics. I don't remember the time period, but very old. I'd love to learn more about this technique as well. Thanks for the inspiration. ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork >I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I >work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, >stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the >sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early >16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I >really have no idea where to start with the research. > > (The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm > interested in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm > http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) > > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic > stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? > I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with > that angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And > it's not the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time > experimenting blind, because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is > so expensive per yard. > > And is this what was called Or Nue'? > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 21:09:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2329Sk2003457 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:09:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2329TNJ005230; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:09:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2328hhF079922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:08:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2328dC4004291; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2328aSG004171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:08:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FEzif-0003ND-9H; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:08:37 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:08:37 -0500 Message-ID: <20060302210837.7eh3balt9zoc448o@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:08:37 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com> <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 21:09:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407A559.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting E House : > I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now > that I work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to > add on a nice, stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! > Specifically, the sort that would be used for embellishing garments > and headwear in the early 16th century. But being me, I have to be > as authentic as I can... and I really have no idea where to start > with the research. I didn't realize that I hadn't addressed the first part of your email. Or nue wasn't something that you'd normally see on garb. Alot of what you would see in the 16th century was blackwork, maybe smocking on chemise necklines, etc. Paintings are going to be your friend here to help you see what kind of stuff was done in the specific locale and time period that you're wanting. You see metal thread on some Elizabethan Coifs. If you're doing Tudor English, look at paintings of Henry and his wives for early 16th century for your best tips. Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 22:15:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k233F3wD005175 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:15:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k233F3UY026868; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:15:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k233EUXf088612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:14:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k233EQiR058307; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:14:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k233EKs8058123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:14:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k234vbpa032478 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:57:38 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly O-T greetings of the (passing) season Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:18:49 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20466941.1141324345872.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <20466941.1141324345872.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603022218.49890.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:15:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407B4B7.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thursday 02 March 2006 1:32 pm, ruthanneb@mindspring.com wrote: [snip] > Who would expect in a modest little neighborhood in Fairfield Connecticut > to drive around the corner and find a pair of snowpersons one of whom was > wearing a HENNIN? I assume a little girl wanted to give her Hallowe'en > costume one more day to shine....Anyway, with the homeowner's permission I > took a photo of Snow Maiden and Swain. That is precious! Thank you! -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 2 23:03:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2343sNL006938 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:03:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2343t58009526; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:03:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23430t3096231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:03:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2342vCs099014; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52815.mail.yahoo.com (web52815.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2342tbW098938 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:02:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4662 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 04:02:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=spBZL7JYCLD6Ptw+uFr1WYt7AiESz5SPePuCHXOMxLrAV/Rb3v56uvfsKhTPRrJwrDDsi0BIDicDIxj3GUzT7mU36ZmsHwaRJW+r0uvNRiqh2PZFiEAIT2Wf9XWIl08D9pSYDRIb6mO7yUabLmquvpX4g8iLeBs9rOD8DcxUa/s= ; Message-ID: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52815.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:02:50 PST Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:02:50 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060302000346.76w8mzif3ogkcgkk@www.goldsword.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 02 Mar 2006 23:03:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407C02B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP "Susan B. Farmer" wrote: Quoting Kathryn Parke : > Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 01:59:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k236xfhT011699 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:59:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k236xg5U026572; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:59:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k236wj9b022212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:58:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k236wdKq035171; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:58:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k236wZgi035136 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:58:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8995136179 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:58:34 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:58:54 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:59:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407E95E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The phrygian hat is also called "the Liberty hat" and is worn by the French "Lady Liberty", Marianne. It was about the time of the French revolution that it became popular. http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france_159/discovering-france_2005/france-f rom-to-z_1978/the-symbols-of-the-republic-and-bastille-day_2002/marianne_150 6.html http://www.allstates-flag.com/fotw/flags/xf-cap.html So it may have been fashionable for a woman to wear such a hat with a Regency gown. De -----Original Message----- Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 02:27:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k237R749016506 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:27:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k237R98W002022; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:27:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k237QURo025926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:26:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k237QQb0054820; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:26:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k237QNMf054791 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 00:26:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1FF4g936UV-0002Ez; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 02:26:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:26:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 02:27:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4407EFCD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k237R749016506 Status: RO Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend? I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 04:11:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k239BHKY008192 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:11:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k239BJqv004479; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:11:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k239AkZo048275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:10:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k239Aewb043516; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52104.mail.yahoo.com (web52104.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.107]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k239AcAW043451 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:10:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 34167 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 09:10:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=zf8Jhma7WaQ8D5x95x/PgAZK6roaofecX8S8GOwEirmrWiDVEDDB5HA/fl3XfDAJovFkfFLfynLcQ2ydBebtvnjEQPBsLTbrcQQM+Ru73UVJX+xiSaCSkdNtK/IcuJYI4N86ms8IkwfaJK3BvdKbSiL8p/pfYw2p7SGkUpEocAE= ; Message-ID: <20060303091032.34165.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 04:10:32 EST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:10:32 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603030141.k231fQGp080487@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 04:11:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44080837.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hiya, I recently wrote some SCA competition documentation on goldwork, that if my computer hadn't been blown up recently, I'd offer to send to you. I'll also be teaching a very-beginner class in goldwork April 1 at Forward into the Past, Cambridge, Ontario. Ironically, my plea to find the original source for that sweete bag was for the documentation of this class. I'll list my doc sources since I have a hard copy floating about. Please excuse any spelling errors, I am developing a cold and thus can't sleep, so no accounting for the condition of my coherency. > I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my > sewing (HAH!) I feel your pain all too well. :-) Specifically, the > sort that would be used for embellishing garments > and headwear in the early > 16th century. I've not actually found it on *extant* headwear, per se. To qualify, I am speaking *only* of purl/bullion goldwork, not or nue or anglicanum. I have little doubt that they used it on pillbox type hats , possibly coifs and partlets. Paintings show what looks like its' use to me, but so little of the stuff exists now because of recycling, I have no hard fast evidence. I've seen it on the girdler's coronet, but that is 17th c. and at that, a repro of the original. I was actually mentally running a list of extant things I have seen it on dated roughly to the 16th c (not being culturally specific): garments - sleeves, foreparts, underwear, wedding robes, Order robe appliques accessories - gloves, sweete bags, shoes, reliquary pouches other - book covers, ecclesiastic garments, various decor items, seal purses, needle cases... I could likely be a little more accurate if my drive were running, this is off the top of my head. Please feel free to add to this list, I actually want to throw a list at my students so they have a general idea where they can apply this highly-addictive hobby. :-) > http://www.berlinembroidery.com Tanya is one of my main suppliers aside from the very reasonably priced lady at Pennsic. Tammy Barnes, I think her name is? I picked up loads of smooth purl from her at a great price. IF you want to go hard core and do the REAL thing, Lorina Stephens of Five Rivers Champanry will happily lighten your load in exchange for stuff no human hands deserve to touch. *grin* > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning > about the authentic > stuff? Authentic is relative. Having recently seen the back of extant goldwork, even my partner said "jeez, what a mess!" But mine always seems surprisingly tidy by comparison. I can't seem to make mine messy enough on the back to look truly authentic. o.O But from the front.. it's pretty good. Any suggestions for modern books that might > help me with technique? This list is from my doc: Saunders, Sally "Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques" BT Batsford, 1998 Campbell-Harding, Lemon, Jane, Pyman, Kit "Goldwork:Revised and Expanded Edition" Search Press, 1998 Synge, Lanto "Art of Embroidery:History of Style and Technique" The Royal School of Needlework. Woodbridge, England; (Wappingers Falls, NY): Antique Collectors Club, 2001. Staniland, Kay "Embroiderers". Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1991. Franklin, Tracy A., "New Ideas in Goldwork" BT Batsford, 2002. Schuette, Maris, Muller-Christensen, Sigrid, "A Pictorial History of Embroidery" Fredrik A. Praeger, New York, 1964. I have recently added this one to my collection: Lomny, Antonia, "The Art and Craft of Goldwork" Simon and Schuster, 2004. This one is great for small projects to familiarise yourself with techniques. It is Australian, and thus the technique is slightly different from most traditional techniques; they use Sadi bullion which is of Indian origin. They also use passing thread to couch with, which drives me nuts. Personally I use the YLI silk heirloom threads. There is an or nue project in there I want to try to get a grip on how it's done. The Royal School book also has great practise projects in it covering all traditional gold work techniques. My current project (which I would have had pictures of if my camera hadn't burped on me - just not my week for technology!) erroneously has one flower done with Sadi bullion, the rest with traditional. It doesn't show up until the light hits at the right angle, then you can't miss the difference. Ultimately I don't think it matters, just so long as you use all the same material from the same origin. > I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do > have experience with that > angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't > translate. Actually, it does. Once I got over the hump of thinking same-but-different, I taught myself very quickly. And it's not > the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of > time experimenting blind, > because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is > so expensive per yard. Let me check my card for my Pennsic contact. It'll make the costs a little easier to swallow. Right now, costume storage is jammed into the sewing room as I slowly redecorate the spare room for my daughter thus can't get to the cupboard that holds all my supplies (gasp!). Alternatively, scan the used clothing stores for Indian clothes and reclaim the materials from their stuff. Basically I just bought myself a goldwork project kit and ran with it. > And is this what was called Or Nue'? They fall into the same category because they use gold thread. "Gold" or in more broader terms, "Metal" embroidery is a fairly broad category. I haven't braved myself to Or Nue' or opus anglicanum yet. Either of these look like they take couching to a whole new tedious level. Hope that helps. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 07:12:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23CCFAe012336 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:12:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23CCEh7001064; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:12:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23CB610069351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:11:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23CB0rp079713; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav14.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23CAuLb079649 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:10:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:10:56 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:10:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060303091032.34165.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:10:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 12:10:56.0350 (UTC) FILETIME=[8687EFE0:01C63EBB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 07:12:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408329E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I had a computer crash last year. Since then I save everything to disk... within a few days of putting it on my computer. It's a hard lesson but that's one of the hassles of new technology. It's harder to fix than to get. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 4:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork > Hiya, > > I recently wrote some SCA competition documentation on > goldwork, that if my computer hadn't been blown up > recently, I'd offer to send to you. I'll also be > teaching a very-beginner class in goldwork April 1 at > Forward into the Past, Cambridge, Ontario. Ironically, > my plea to find the original source for that sweete > bag was for the documentation of this class. I'll list > my doc sources since I have a hard copy floating > about. Please excuse any spelling errors, I am > developing a cold and thus can't sleep, so no > accounting for the condition of my coherency. > >> I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my >> sewing (HAH!) > > I feel your pain all too well. :-) > > Specifically, the >> sort that would be used for embellishing garments >> and headwear in the early >> 16th century. > > I've not actually found it on *extant* headwear, per > se. To qualify, I am speaking *only* of purl/bullion > goldwork, not or nue or anglicanum. I have little > doubt that they used it on pillbox type hats , > possibly coifs and partlets. Paintings show what looks > like its' use to me, but so little of the stuff exists > now because of recycling, I have no hard fast > evidence. I've seen it on the girdler's coronet, but > that is 17th c. and at that, a repro of the original. > I was actually mentally running a list of extant > things I have seen it on dated roughly to the 16th c > (not being culturally specific): > garments - sleeves, foreparts, underwear, wedding > robes, Order robe appliques > accessories - gloves, sweete bags, shoes, reliquary > pouches > other - book covers, ecclesiastic garments, various > decor items, seal purses, needle cases... > I could likely be a little more accurate if my drive > were running, this is off the top of my head. Please > feel free to add to this list, I actually want to > throw a list at my students so they have a general > idea where they can apply this highly-addictive hobby. > :-) > >> http://www.berlinembroidery.com > > Tanya is one of my main suppliers aside from the very > reasonably priced lady at Pennsic. Tammy Barnes, I > think her name is? I picked up loads of smooth purl > from her at a great price. IF you want to go hard core > and do the REAL thing, Lorina Stephens of Five Rivers > Champanry will happily lighten your load in exchange > for stuff no human hands deserve to touch. *grin* > >> Does anyone know of any good resources for learning >> about the authentic >> stuff? > > Authentic is relative. Having recently seen the back > of extant goldwork, even my partner said "jeez, what a > mess!" But mine always seems surprisingly tidy by > comparison. I can't seem to make mine messy enough on > the back to look truly authentic. o.O But from the > front.. it's pretty good. > > Any suggestions for modern books that might >> help me with technique? > > This list is from my doc: > Saunders, Sally "Royal School of Needlework Embroidery > Techniques" BT Batsford, 1998 > Campbell-Harding, Lemon, Jane, Pyman, Kit > "Goldwork:Revised and Expanded Edition" Search Press, > 1998 > Synge, Lanto "Art of Embroidery:History of Style and > Technique" The Royal School of Needlework. Woodbridge, > England; (Wappingers Falls, NY): Antique Collectors > Club, 2001. > Staniland, Kay "Embroiderers". Toronto: University of > Toronto Press, 1991. > Franklin, Tracy A., "New Ideas in Goldwork" BT > Batsford, 2002. > Schuette, Maris, Muller-Christensen, Sigrid, "A > Pictorial History of Embroidery" Fredrik A. Praeger, > New York, 1964. > > I have recently added this one to my collection: > Lomny, Antonia, "The Art and Craft of Goldwork" Simon > and Schuster, 2004. > This one is great for small projects to familiarise > yourself with techniques. It is Australian, and thus > the technique is slightly different from most > traditional techniques; they use Sadi bullion which is > of Indian origin. They also use passing thread to > couch with, which drives me nuts. Personally I use the > YLI silk heirloom threads. There is an or nue project > in there I want to try to get a grip on how it's done. > The Royal School book also has great practise projects > in it covering all traditional gold work techniques. > My current project (which I would have had pictures of > if my camera hadn't burped on me - just not my week > for technology!) erroneously has one flower done with > Sadi bullion, the rest with traditional. It doesn't > show up until the light hits at the right angle, then > you can't miss the difference. Ultimately I don't > think it matters, just so long as you use all the same > material from the same origin. > >> I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do >> have experience with that >> angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't >> translate. > > Actually, it does. Once I got over the hump of > thinking same-but-different, I taught myself very > quickly. > > And it's not >> the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of >> time experimenting blind, >> because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is >> so expensive per yard. > Let me check my card for my Pennsic contact. It'll > make the costs a little easier to swallow. Right now, > costume storage is jammed into the sewing room as I > slowly redecorate the spare room for my daughter thus > can't get to the cupboard that holds all my supplies > (gasp!). Alternatively, scan the used clothing stores > for Indian clothes and reclaim the materials from > their stuff. Basically I just bought myself a goldwork > project kit and ran with it. > >> And is this what was called Or Nue'? > > They fall into the same category because they use gold > thread. "Gold" or in more broader terms, "Metal" > embroidery is a fairly broad category. I haven't > braved myself to Or Nue' or opus anglicanum yet. > Either of these look like they take couching to a > whole new tedious level. > > Hope that helps. > > Kathy > > Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a > rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert > > It's never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth > there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart > somewhere to receive it. > -Ivan Panin > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 08:48:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Dm17h026498 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:48:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Dm2ni002919; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:48:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23DkeuC078396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Dkc0i046330; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23DkXn7046231 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A8B30244; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:46:27 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.152 ([209.131.80.152] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 3 Mar 2006 08:46:23 -0500 Message-ID: <00b401c63ec9$2c2c7ee0$985083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B0781DCF3@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:48:36 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:48:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44084912.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My experience, based on antique bodices in my collection, features this fitting mode only on the lining or under bodice. This point of fitting is then 'upholsterd by the outer fabric that is draped and tweaked in such a manner that the adjustment is not obvious. A dressform is definitely a plus for one of these constructions. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice > Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) it extends about 3" into the bust, and about the same length across the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice fits beautifully... I also had this problem on my princess-line tea gown using their pattern... But I thought it was due to the weight of the fabric, but that can't be the case for my current bodice... Does anyone have any suggestions for how to handle this fitting problem? Should I make the armhole bigger (and if so, should it be lower side front, lower side back, or the bottom? I'm afraid if I widen the armhole it'll just pull the armhole out of shape due to the pull...) should I let the side seam out a little bit? I thought about putting padding inside the bodice ther! > e, but there is very little room... And the bodice is satin so it shows every little crinkle or dent - unfortunately you can even follow the line of the lace on the chemise if you look closely. > > Does anyone have any suggestions? > Thank you, > -sunny > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 08:55:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Dtd7s026694 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:55:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Dtf6M005798; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:55:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Dt9mE079527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:55:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Dt7G7052360; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:55:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([63.240.77.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23DsYZb051577 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celtkin@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-69-246-135-166.hsd1.tn.comcast.net[69.246.135.166]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060303135353013001o860e>; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:53:53 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.1.051004 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:53:53 -0500 From: celtkin To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Goldwork Thread-Index: AcY+yegZJorgXKq9EdqFdgANkz5D6g== In-Reply-To: <200603030910.k239AtkF043717@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:55:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44084ADD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO For 16th c. goldwork, I recall finding information on supplies and such by Googling "Purl" -- It seems to be referred to that way in some of the textile books, and you can still get the gold threads in different shapes and textures. As for Or Nue, it was primarily for ecclesiastical use -- gold threads were couched down and silk colors stitched over them in different densities to create beautiful "paintings" full of light and shadow -- very sumptuous! (but not really used in garb unless you want to wear a Cope ;) The most inspiring examples of Or Nue (to me) are the Golden Fleece Vestments. I'd be interested as well if anyone has further input on goldwork/purlwork. I have been dying to do a particular costume that has a goldwork breastpiece -- just haven't finished figuring out how to go about it (and I've only embroidered one thing in my life... May as well aim high! ;) Kat >> I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I >> work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, >> stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the >> sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early >> 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I >> really have no idea where to start with the research. >> [snip] >> And is this what was called Or Nue'? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 10:01:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23F1RYc028570 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:01:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23F1Sm0002104; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:01:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23F0mIU088453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:00:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23F0e2G007268; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:00:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn2.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23F0Zvb007137 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:00:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 6AE0E75730; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:00:34 -0500 (EST) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Received: from [207.161.59.82] by mprdmailfe8.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:00:34 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 1cf8c8c2ca72c664374022311c208dce From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060303150034.6AE0E75730@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:00:34 -0500 (EST) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:01:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44085A48.009 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I remember my grandmother collected fans, 30 years ago. Her favorite was this beautiful pierced sandlewood fan that she would grab and fan herself -at the time I just thought she really liked fans. Wendy --- On Fri 03/03, Penny Ladnier < penny@costumegallery.com > wrote: From: Penny Ladnier [mailto: penny@costumegallery.com] To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:26:22 -0500 Subject: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend?

I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change!

Penny E. Ladnier
Owner,
The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com
Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com
Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com
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Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 10:04:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23F43LW028647 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:04:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23F44ga003228; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:04:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23F3FVQ088998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:03:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23F3FN0009496; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:03:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23F395P009422 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:03:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m95.in-tch.com [216.166.191.95]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k23EsQA05565 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:54:26 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <003a01c63ed4$971718e0$5fbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:10:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:04:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44085AE4.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sorry, Penny. Been there, done that, and no hot flashes. --Sue, rather smugly ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans > Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 10:38:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23FcOfC029441 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:38:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23FcQQn018845; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:38:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23FbSix003683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:37:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23FbDZs042774; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:37:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Fb9xu042609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:37:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FFCL4-0007BM-CR; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:37:06 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:37:06 -0500 Message-ID: <20060303103706.gdvqi63rer4s0s4w@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:37:06 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:38:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440862F2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Penny Ladnier : > Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that > your hand fans are your new best friend? > > I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had > only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the > pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I > have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them > with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:30:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GUSZ8030772 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:30:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GUS76011220; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:30:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GTcA2023524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GS7gL093369; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:28:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k234N6mk015162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 21:23:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2366Oj5002058 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:06:24 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:27:36 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603022327.36290.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:30:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44086F24.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thursday 02 March 2006 11:02 pm, Kathryn Parke wrote: > Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an > ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also > (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine > such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim > to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a > high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where > I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet > cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? I don't remember seeing any Phrygian or Alexandrine caps, but there was a definite vogue for odd headgear during the Regency period--such as turbans. Here's a whole page of period illustrations of evening wear with turbans: http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/dress/turb.html Actually, that turned out to be three pages--here are special links to the other two: http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/dress/turb2.html http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/dress/turb3.html This woman is wearing just a pair of ostrich feathers in what appears to be short, curly hair: http://www.trocadero.com/thenowhouse/items/425212/en1.html -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:32:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GWrab030810 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GWtSA012282; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GWZQo024112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GWWlc098160; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GWQKQ097949 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2c9.477b700 (15876) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-3e0444086f911e0; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:32:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060303103706.gdvqi63rer4s0s4w@www.goldsword.com> References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <20060303103706.gdvqi63rer4s0s4w@www.goldsword.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:32:13 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:32:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44086FB7.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k23GWrab030810 Status: RO We are a large enough group to make a new Fashion Statement, that's for sure! Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 3, 2006, at 10:37 AM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > Quoting Penny Ladnier : > >> Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that >> your hand fans are your new best friend? >> >> I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had >> only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the >> pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I >> have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them >> with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:35:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GZmqC030892 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:35:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GZnXT013657; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:35:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GXmQA024406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:33:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GXeTL099519; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:33:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k236FOfw003939 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:15:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 85980 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2006 06:15:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.226 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2006 06:15:23 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060303061103.01ddbdb0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 06:15:25 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap In-Reply-To: <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060302000346.76w8mzif3ogkcgkk@www.goldsword.com> <20060303040250.4660.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:35:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44087065.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 04:02 03/03/2006, you wrote: >Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part >of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young >woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager >variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal >ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) >it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a >light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original >reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have >you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? > > Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! > > KP >google image search is your friend >http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search > >Susan During the French Revolution, the Phrygian cap became popular among the revolutionaries, as I recall. I seem to remember it was white with e a cockade. I suspect it was a cap after that style that your Regency lady would have worn. I would see if you can find a reference in Cunnington's "Englishwoman's Clothing in the 19th Century," where there are pages of hats, one for each year. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:38:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GcQc4030962 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:38:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GcRoD014922; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:38:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Gc75O025683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:38:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Gc0DI004609; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:38:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52103.mail.yahoo.com (web52103.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.106]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k239ApOH043617 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:10:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 62337 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 09:10:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QceyyS8CCkjQIfSYfrsS0KBA3wCxxUAUtLuEkgDv5ATO+b47GrLHz+Q4bAsYLl6b3qLzEOz5WQ2YaqOZVnnivEtdK0Ov3YwEoF0HmZXSkpfYwmtvnQ5+jsHVv8ZwQzabOl6jpr5zwiOU4AzWfMfIZ4TM+C1wd46PkEIzfD47jj0= ; Message-ID: <20060303091006.62307.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 04:10:06 EST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 04:10:06 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603030141.k231fQGp080487@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:38:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44087103.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hiya, I recently wrote some SCA competition documentation on goldwork, that if my computer hadn't been blown up recently, I'd offer to send to you. I'll also be teaching a very-beginner class in goldwork April 1 at Forward into the Past, Cambridge, Ontario. Ironically, my plea to find the original source for that sweete bag was for the documentation of this class. I'll list my doc sources since I have a hard copy floating about. Please excuse any spelling errors, I am developing a cold and thus can't sleep, so no accounting for the condition of my coherency. > I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my > sewing (HAH!) I feel your pain all too well. :-) Specifically, the > sort that would be used for embellishing garments > and headwear in the early > 16th century. I've not actually found it on *extant* headwear, per se. To qualify, I am speaking *only* of purl/bullion goldwork, not or nue or anglicanum. I have little doubt that they used it on pillbox type hats , possibly coifs and partlets. Paintings show what looks like its' use to me, but so little of the stuff exists now because of recycling, I have no hard fast evidence. I've seen it on the girdler's coronet, but that is 17th c. and at that, a repro of the original. I was actually mentally running a list of extant things I have seen it on dated roughly to the 16th c (not being culturally specific): garments - sleeves, foreparts, underwear, wedding robes, Order robe appliques accessories - gloves, sweete bags, shoes, reliquary pouches other - book covers, ecclesiastic garments, various decor items, seal purses, needle cases... I could likely be a little more accurate if my drive were running, this is off the top of my head. Please feel free to add to this list, I actually want to throw a list at my students so they have a general idea where they can apply this highly-addictive hobby. :-) > http://www.berlinembroidery.com Tanya is one of my main suppliers aside from the very reasonably priced lady at Pennsic. Tammy Barnes, I think her name is? I picked up loads of smooth purl from her at a great price. IF you want to go hard core and do the REAL thing, Lorina Stephens of Five Rivers Champanry will happily lighten your load in exchange for stuff no human hands deserve to touch. *grin* > Does anyone know of any good resources for learning > about the authentic > stuff? Authentic is relative. Having recently seen the back of extant goldwork, even my partner said "jeez, what a mess!" But mine always seems surprisingly tidy by comparison. I can't seem to make mine messy enough on the back to look truly authentic. o.O But from the front.. it's pretty good. Any suggestions for modern books that might > help me with technique? This list is from my doc: Saunders, Sally "Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques" BT Batsford, 1998 Campbell-Harding, Lemon, Jane, Pyman, Kit "Goldwork:Revised and Expanded Edition" Search Press, 1998 Synge, Lanto "Art of Embroidery:History of Style and Technique" The Royal School of Needlework. Woodbridge, England; (Wappingers Falls, NY): Antique Collectors Club, 2001. Staniland, Kay "Embroiderers". Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1991. Franklin, Tracy A., "New Ideas in Goldwork" BT Batsford, 2002. Schuette, Maris, Muller-Christensen, Sigrid, "A Pictorial History of Embroidery" Fredrik A. Praeger, New York, 1964. I have recently added this one to my collection: Lomny, Antonia, "The Art and Craft of Goldwork" Simon and Schuster, 2004. This one is great for small projects to familiarise yourself with techniques. It is Australian, and thus the technique is slightly different from most traditional techniques; they use Sadi bullion which is of Indian origin. They also use passing thread to couch with, which drives me nuts. Personally I use the YLI silk heirloom threads. There is an or nue project in there I want to try to get a grip on how it's done. The Royal School book also has great practise projects in it covering all traditional gold work techniques. My current project (which I would have had pictures of if my camera hadn't burped on me - just not my week for technology!) erroneously has one flower done with Sadi bullion, the rest with traditional. It doesn't show up until the light hits at the right angle, then you can't miss the difference. Ultimately I don't think it matters, just so long as you use all the same material from the same origin. > I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do > have experience with that > angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't > translate. Actually, it does. Once I got over the hump of thinking same-but-different, I taught myself very quickly. And it's not > the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of > time experimenting blind, > because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is > so expensive per yard. Let me check my card for my Pennsic contact. It'll make the costs a little easier to swallow. Right now, costume storage is jammed into the sewing room as I slowly redecorate the spare room for my daughter thus can't get to the cupboard that holds all my supplies (gasp!). Alternatively, scan the used clothing stores for Indian clothes and reclaim the materials from their stuff. Basically I just bought myself a goldwork project kit and ran with it. > And is this what was called Or Nue'? They fall into the same category because they use gold thread. "Gold" or in more broader terms, "Metal" embroidery is a fairly broad category. I haven't braved myself to Or Nue' or opus anglicanum yet. Either of these look like they take couching to a whole new tedious level. Hope that helps. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:39:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GdTMq030997 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:39:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GdULv010973; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:39:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GcpgE025851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Gco2X005697; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:38:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.clifford.wightman.ca [216.110.227.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23AaENk009984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 03:36:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 83795D43A9; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:36:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAIN (unknown [216.110.230.30]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7850DD4001 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:36:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:35:41 -0500 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-Reply-To: <200603030910.k239AtkF043717@net.indra.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.clifford X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k23AaENk009984 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:39:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44087143.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ah, my passion and my addiction. For reasonably priced gold indeed do look at Berlin. We, as someone else mentioned, carry rather rarefied gold, manufactured by a peerless drizzler in Spain. These threads are exactly what you would find in the superior historical works. I'm always encouraging people to put together a group order so they can share the equally rarefied cost of these threads. They are gorgeous. And once you've worked with them you'll never want to work with any other. As Bjarne mentioned, gold wire threads such as purls, facconne, crinkles, jaceron, etc., will catch and ravel, so it is important when couching them to be sure you have clipped the metal ends carefully and if it all possible turned the end inward to prevent catching, as well as ensure the cut end have rolled down to where you've couched. To be truthful, I find these types of gold threads easiest to work with. It is the passing thread which tests skill and patience. I've found if you fail to pass the thread through the cloth at 90 degrees, between the warp and weft, and pull very slowly, keeping light tension on either side of the cloth, that you're going to tear the delicate foil from the core and have a mess, little say a waste, on your hands. I have been working with gold for about eight years now and still find passing thread a challenge. Some of my favourite goldwork (and embroidery) I've undertaken is on our website under Fine Art, the Celtic series of embroideries I designed and embroidered. Or nue: another of my passions. Lordy, I really learned a lot about it when I worked up a cloak of state for my SCA barony. Images of it are on our website under Fine Art, scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the more details link. As someone else mentioned, or nue was not used on garments; it was used copiously (oh, a pun!) on ecclesiastical paraments and vestments. At the moment (it's a long moment) I'm working on a dress garment for myself, a frock coat based on a man's early 18th century frock coat, much modified, with embroidered cuffs and neckline. The design of the embroidery is not my own, although interpreted differently, taken from the wedding garments of the Dauphin in 1747. You can find the design in the St. Aubin book. I've chosen to work the design in a series of rich rusts and yellows, with purl in the berry areas. The ground is a gorgeous ivory wool/silk twill. The whole thing will eventually be lined with a silk charmeuse. I think I'll end up hand-stitching the garment to be sure I don't ruin any of the embroidery in the sewing machine. When done, I'll have a lovely dress jacket to wear for those rare occasions we step out. Although I no longer have workshops posted on the website, I still do teach. Workshops run $400.00 CDN per person for two days, includes all materials (and I mean all), accommodations and meals. We work on the opus anglicanum alms purse kit listed on our website, and as always, there's always lots of extra tidbits thrown in. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:42:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Gg3rm031057 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Gg5Bb016834; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GfUda026841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:41:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GfShR008626; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:41:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Detnf042426 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A75B01DC; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:40:43 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.152 ([209.131.80.152] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 3 Mar 2006 08:40:29 -0500 Message-ID: <00a801c63ec8$591d1fa0$985083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44072202.304@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:42:39 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:42:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440871DD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My anti-stain shelf includes a bottle of Aunt Ellen's (both for whites and colors, found at JoAnn's) and Oxiclean paste, as well as a "tree product". Aunt Ellen's does have a bleaching element but it took 30 yr. stains out of my favorite teacozy without showing any damage to the linen fibers. A recent rescue mission for my daughter's white damask tablecloth was somewhat successful with a liberal application of Oxiclean. My favorite brightner right now is the non-chlorine product of a company called Mellauca. This is what I am using on my antique laces and other delicates, including silk. It does a great job on the obvious 'age' tints without removing the true antique colors. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen > Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? > > > > Hydrogen peroxide is pretty mild, but if the oxy-stuff didn't work you > may not have luck with this either. > > Tried sun-bleaching it? > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:42:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GgYRN031066 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Gga2j011924; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GbBgw025236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:37:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Gb6Kv003591; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:37:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k238imgm022623 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:44:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 72989 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2006 08:44:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.226 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2006 08:44:47 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060303084227.01dd9a68@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:44:52 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans In-Reply-To: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:42:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440871FC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 07:26 03/03/2006, you wrote: >Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that >your hand fans are your new best friend? > >I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had >only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the >pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I >have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them >with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! You and me both Penny! I carry a little Chinese folding fan in my very small purse/handbag all the time. I pay 50p for them and buy them by the dozen, as they break, but I'd rather use them than my "good" collection of fans, which I had a habit of losing. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:44:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GiOb2031123 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:44:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GiQR3017931; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:44:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GhmDh027713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:43:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GhjKl011346; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:43:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23FkOBT052058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:46:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FFCTz-00084a-HN; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:46:19 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:46:19 -0500 Message-ID: <20060303104619.s1efqquvqdf4s88c@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:46:19 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:44:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408726A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting celtkin : > For 16th c. goldwork, I recall finding information on supplies and such by > Googling "Purl" -- It seems to be referred to that way in some of the > textile books, and you can still get the gold threads in different shapes > and textures. > > As for Or Nue, it was primarily for ecclesiastical use -- gold threads were > couched down and silk colors stitched over them in different densities to > create beautiful "paintings" full of light and shadow -- very sumptuous! > (but not really used in garb unless you want to wear a Cope ;) > > The most inspiring examples of Or Nue (to me) are the Golden Fleece > Vestments. > > I'd be interested as well if anyone has further input on goldwork/purlwork. > I have been dying to do a particular costume that has a goldwork breastpiece > -- just haven't finished figuring out how to go about it (and I've only > embroidered one thing in my life... May as well aim high! ;) Purlwork is easy. It's like a long *tiny* spring. You cut the pieces of purl to length, and sew through the center of the spring. You can also tack it down by sewing it through the "rings" of the coil if it's a long piece. I could show you in about 10 minutes! Where are you physically located? Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 11:45:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GjW1C031156 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:45:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23GjYF5012668; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:45:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Gik32027935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:44:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23GigUL012459; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:44:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f23.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23G6K98071627 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:06:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrscakehole@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:06:19 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:06:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [86.134.165.151] X-Originating-Email: [mrscakehole@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mrscakehole@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603030141.k231fQGr080487@net.indra.com> From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:06:14 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 16:06:19.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[68C55D50:01C63EDC] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:45:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440872AE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I took a goldwork class at the Royal School of Needlework (www.royal-needlework.co.uk) at Hampton Court Palace - an amazing place to learn, and about as authentic as it gets. I think they teach somewhere in the US for a couple of weeks each spring/summer, too. The Sally Saunders book (Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques) is really good and has lots of useful basic info. I've got the Jane Lemon book (Metal Thread Embroidery), but it's an A-Z format, which I find pretty useless. Lots of nice pictures, though. Kate >Message: 8 >Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600 >From: "E House" >Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork >To: "Historical Costume" >Message-ID: <00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > >I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I >work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, >stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the >sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early >16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I >really have no idea where to start with the research. > >(The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm interested >in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: >http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm >http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) > >Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic >stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? >I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with that >angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And it's >not >the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time experimenting blind, >because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is so expensive per yard. > >And is this what was called Or Nue'? > >-E House > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 12:49:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Hn4pU000383 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:49:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Hn5Hq014540; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:49:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23HmUP7039431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23HmKNY073184; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52104.mail.yahoo.com (web52104.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.107]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k23HmGVt073057 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:48:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 28770 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2006 17:48:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=q7byFRBsda50gxrm5Oo9NK0abDfkPJDUlaADYqnx/QOZquFISfvQ75WvVAojj8VRtFYBmUQ4YI/RE3UwLq6hxe51YsgByQ1T7BwfFlobibkDinEcN42ta1Bv0M4odIE078Beebtq7oitdBqRdnpRsgT2F4Ra4VApz+XgTdkPM7k= ; Message-ID: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:48:10 EST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:48:10 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603031632.k23GWXvm098178@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:49:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44088191.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Im not worried, just annoyed at the inconvenience. My husband has built a fortress for a network in this house that includes nightly tape back ups. We outgrew zip drive back up years ago. I'm just stuck waiting till he finds a functioning power supply to make it operational again. Had I believed that I had actually lost anything, I would *not* be this relaxed. I have some rather important and irreplaceable files on my drive. Namely the Sture translations, which are slow but progressing. My husband learned the hard way several years ago not to go messing with my computer without backing it up first. Kathy > I had a computer crash last year. Since then I save > everything to disk... > within a few days of putting it on my computer. It's > a hard lesson but > that's one of the hassles of new technology. It's > harder to fix than to get. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 12:50:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Houi0000418 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:50:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23HowiF029415; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:51:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Hng1Y039573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:50:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23H8Imj035802; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:08:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23H88cq035610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:21798 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FFDlA-0007iW-UU for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:08:09 -0600 Message-ID: <312601c63ee5$0a4959d0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c63e5c$bdf12a50$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:08:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:51:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44088202.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you all for the great book & website suggestions. I now have someplace to start! And Bjarne, thank you for the warnings! I will definitely have to re-think at least my dream project, which had very pretty, very allegorical, and very impractical goldwork at the hem & sleeves. However, I think it should still work for the realistic headwear applications I was planning. Looking at portraits is what got me in this trouble in the first place! =} About 4 out of 5 depictions of my favorite headwear show goldwork; only about 1 in 30 non-allegorical gowns from my era have it, but it's oooh so pretty when they do. And about 15-20 years later it gets downright common on gowns; I may have to dabble in the 1540s! (I knew it had to happen someday... I just keep edging slightly later. Over the past 10 years or so, my time period has edged from c1380-1420 all the way forward to c1490-1525, with lots of stops in between!) Thanks, E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 13:42:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23IgjUj002656 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:42:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23IgkWL005386; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:42:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23IgLpd048532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23IftnY025726; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Iffta025494 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:41:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id j2so766718nzf for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:41:35 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oaxIcloVNFlIgv/XGBV9Hu4FmcM7SwKhx9I79XMARAlQwivjH6ja+GcJzhc6YTR3mw66vO4zwjLU3oi0ugKQsb+9XQu6rfVyRkD1Io3X16+wqmQjtJ7k8S9le7K7AFtrqHQ17en/scCnkmY3n4A6DPrVF4fs73cay3mN9yYDGTk= Received: by 10.64.24.20 with SMTP id 20mr12214qbx; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:41:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:41:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:41:34 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Fwd: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k23Iffta025494 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:42:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44088E27.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the Truly >Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the fit around the >armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about 1/2" above the bottom of the >armhole (right at the top of my corset) it extends about 3" into the bust, and >about the same length across the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest >of the bodice fits beautifully... I also had this problem on my princess-line tea >gown using their pattern... But I thought it was due to the weight of the fabric, but >that can't be the case for my current bodice... Does anyone have any >suggestions for how to handle this fitting problem? Hey Sunny, Sounds like your dress materials are just a smidge too tight. Did you make a liner to take *all* the stress? The outer satin should just "blow into place" then be merely tackstitched. In truth the corset takes 99.9999% of the stress, the fitted lining carries the small stress of closure. > Should I make the armhole >bigger (and if so, should it be lower side front, lower side back, or the bottom? No, never! the smaller armseye gives mobility! Dash out to one of the vintage clothing vendors in your area and look inside a few bodices. Even a waist from one of those black traveling gowns from the 90s will show what you need to see about fitted linings. >I'm >afraid if I widen the armhole it'll just pull the armhole out of shape due to the >pull...) should I let the side seam out a little bit? I thought about putting padding >inside the bodice there, but there is very little room.. "Dress improvers" read bodice pads are correct to the period, so much so that most every ladies mag issue will feature an ad for such. Shapes are usually kidney & elipsoid. One layer of batt & construct like a modern shoulder pad. They fit into the body hollows. >. And the bodice is satin so >it shows every little crinkle or dent - unfortunately >you can even follow the line of >the lace on the chemise if you look closely. Sounds lovely! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com -- --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 13:48:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Im32e002805 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:48:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Im4uJ007548; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:48:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23IlgRe049154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:47:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23IlaiG030378; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pproxy.gmail.com (pproxy.gmail.com [64.233.166.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23IlPrO030215 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:47:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id e30so348777pya for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:47:25 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oGHxRxmoeTlScxmNRtzBF6vtZlHDIf/8CqrpdZBbwhT69yuYC9wjbxSHSVeSgNm7YN+xDCeLAv8eHPVa3qne0QYXZitDB9BlGPzGi+AgsEkvftibjFYpv327pmhyCUKsAhEmPWyDbMovVzvUga8LRT1s5+vGEghgtSEc795Ydlk= Received: by 10.65.219.6 with SMTP id w6mr204174qbq; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:47:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:47:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:47:24 -0800 From: Cin To: "sunny sunshine buchler" , h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k23IlPrO030215 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:48:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44088F64.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On 3/3/06, Cin wrote: > >Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the > Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the > fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about > 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) > it extends about 3" into the bust, and about the same length across > the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice > fits beautifully... I'm sure you've thought of these, given your professional training, but I thought of another possible cause, the stress lines are actually due to slight bias stretch. Fix this by interlining with straight grain goods (selvedge offcuts are traditional) or tailors tape, tho this may be too heavy if your chemise lace is showing thru. Yet another possible cause, the shoulder strap wants to lie slightly outside or inside of where it was designed to go. You may have to release the side & CB seams, then pivot or slide the section until the straps lie right. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 13:55:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Its9S003061 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:55:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23ItuD6011011; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:55:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23ItM2x050273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23ItF6e037173; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:55:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23IeHbM024111 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:40:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVK007S5DTUX0Y0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:25:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:25:02 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans In-reply-to: <20060303103706.gdvqi63rer4s0s4w@www.goldsword.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:55:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408913C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oh Susan! You have it so right!!! I used to do full Elizabethan in August at the SCA Pennsic War... Ha! Not now!!! Monica (Catriona in the SCA) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:37 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Quoting Penny Ladnier : > Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that > your hand fans are your new best friend? > > I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had > only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the > pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I > have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them > with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:10:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JAfKF003756 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:10:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JAhmQ017504; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JARRn052496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:10:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JANbN049954; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:10:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JAIMf049801 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A49101E0; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:10:09 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.145 ([209.131.80.145] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 3 Mar 2006 14:10:03 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c63ef6$63cb90c0$915083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:12:14 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:10:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440894B3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This is kind of what I meant when I spoke of doing a fine-fit with the lining before you add the garment fabric. A well fitted muslin will deal with some if not all the problems of possible bias when the the outer fabric is added. Most of all my antique jackets were constructed in this way. There seems to be a slight change in the shape and the wearing when the two layers come together. My experience, anyway. This is one area that really shows up when modern patterns try to emulate the ninteenth century fit...starting with the shoulder seam sitting squarely on the shoulder. Another way the seamstresses seemed to solve the problem is with a little wadding in the armhole area. If you are using an antique construction, maybe adding the padding which will also give a look of a fuller bustline, is what is missing in your calculations. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "sunny sunshine buchler" ; "h-cost" Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice > On 3/3/06, Cin wrote: > > >Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the > > Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the > > fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about > > 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) > > it extends about 3" into the bust, and about the same length across > > the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice > > fits beautifully... > > I'm sure you've thought of these, given your professional training, > but I thought of another possible cause, the stress lines are actually > due to slight bias stretch. Fix this by interlining with straight > grain goods (selvedge offcuts are traditional) or tailors tape, tho > this may be too heavy if your chemise lace is showing thru. > > Yet another possible cause, the shoulder strap wants to lie slightly > outside or inside of where it was designed to go. You may have to > release the side & CB seams, then pivot or slide the section until the > straps lie right. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:37:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JbQJD004571 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:37:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JbRjM029035; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:37:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Jb4h2056160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:37:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JatAE072518; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:36:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JaiIm072322 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:36:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2478c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.140]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CDFDA50036 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:36:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c63ef9$d82f5fc0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:37:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] medieval belt pouch X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:37:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44089AF7.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I am finishing embroidery for a belt pouch. I wondered if it would be suitable to edge the pouch flap with freshwater pearls? Those i have are 5 mm. wide, are they two clumsy or two heavy for this? I cant deside if i should just edge the flap with couching a silver cord on, or use the pearls. Embroidery is 3 lion rampants embroidered with white silk, and edged with a thin silver line. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:38:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Jcwfa004632 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:38:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Jd0SH021839; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:39:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JccZ1056751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JcZNc074321; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JcIEf073950 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:38:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2478c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.140]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EE16FA5004C for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:38:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000c01c63efa$0fe80d90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <21b.90a2487.3138a4e6@aol.com><00c301c63e3a$4ef93ce0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:38:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-15"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:39:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44089B54.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sorry, forgot to tell that the pouch is made in red silk taffeta. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "G.Vinje" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork > On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600, E House > wrote: >> Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic >> stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with >> technique? > > If you want one book that covers just about everything there is to cover > except patterns; > Metal thread embroidery by Jane Lemon > Batsford (March 28, 2005) > ISBN 071348926X > It covers historical and modern stitches, thread, > techniques,equipment,photoes of extant pieces including Elisabethan and > more. I have bought others, but this is the one I keep returning to. And > the only one I've found truly useful for historical goldwork anytime > within my period of interest(1200-1670). > > Some websites worth looking at ; > Or Nue > http://medieval.webcon.net.au/technique_or_nue.html > Or Nue (Shaded Gold) > http://www.advancenet.net/jscole/ornue.html > > And a brief introduction to historical goldwork; > All that glitters... > http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/Goldwork.html > > Gunvor > > -- > "Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov" > Anders (nesten 4 år) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:39:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Jdpmm004663 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:39:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JdrW7030115; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:39:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JdMRB056922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JdFDe075045; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:39:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JFTfl054066 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:15:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm28.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFAF43736 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:15:28 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm28 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060303111528.C14D4AAC@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:15:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5ECJXQjWFexQEAAAAB,333cba866fae330acd711b35aade906f X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:39:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44089B89.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The reference you are thinking of comes from chapter 10 of 'Frederica' by Georgette Heyer. 'She had been the mistress of her father's household for too long to suffer agonies of shyness; the orange-blossom dress made for her by Miss Chibbet, and given a touch of a la modality by Charis's clever fingers, was just the thing for a lady who, without being precisely stricken in years, knew herself to be beyond marriageable age; the diamond necklace, bestowed by the late Mr Merriville on his wife, gave her dignity; and the little Alexandrian cap with which, deaf to Charis's protests, she completed her elegant toilette, clearly demonstrated that she was to be ranked amongst the dowagers.' ' Frederica entered the room a little in advance of her sister, and paused for a moment, glancing swiftly round. The impression she created was one of elegance. Not even the Alexandrian cap could make her look in the least like a dowager; but the fashion of her orange-blossom crape, with its bodice cut in the Austrian style, the shawl of Albany gauze caught up over her elbows, the sparkle of diamonds round her throat, and, above all, her quiet assurance, clearly showed that she neither was, nor considered herself to be, a girl in her first bloom. She had more the appearance of a young matron, with several years' experience behind her. Frederica was 24 years old, and was dressed for the ball at which her very beautiful younger sister was to 'come out' to Society. The reference was fresh in my mind because I have just recently reread 'Frederica', for the umpteenth time. I must say, I never got the impression that an Alexandrian cap was anything like a Phrygian cap. I found this link ; http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/lmm/lmm7-14.html but unfortunately there isn't a picture to go with it. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- kjp1685@yahoo.com wrote: Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP "Susan B. Farmer" wrote: Quoting Kathryn Parke : > Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search Susan ----- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 14:43:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23JhorO004754 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:43:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23Jhp6e031866; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:43:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JgU0l057571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:42:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JgRJD078143; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:42:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23JgKLe078034 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:42:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAFFC807FE; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:37:35 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:42:32 -0800 Message-ID: <001801c63efa$9d4579c0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060303084227.01dd9a68@127.0.0.1> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:43:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44089C77.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I bought a black lace fan for use this past year at Dickens Fair. It was the best $ I ever spent. Not only for hot flashes, but with all the people in there, it gets quite warm. And as we dress as though we are in London, outside in December, we roast. (Especially after a fast polka) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 12:45 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans At 07:26 03/03/2006, you wrote: >Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that >your hand fans are your new best friend? > >I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had >only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the >pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I >have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them >with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! You and me both Penny! I carry a little Chinese folding fan in my very small purse/handbag all the time. I pay 50p for them and buy them by the dozen, as they break, but I'd rather use them than my "good" collection of fans, which I had a habit of losing. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 16:13:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LDWN7008396 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:13:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LDWB3005183; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:13:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23LCqGU072370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:12:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LCRmI061041; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:12:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LCHnM060808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:12:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:23101 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FFHZT-0000V2-Sk for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:12:20 -0600 Message-ID: <316901c63f07$2589d9f0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c63ef9$d82f5fc0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval belt pouch Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:12:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:13:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408B17C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I'm sure both would look nice, but I'd prefer the silver cord couched on to the pearls... it sounds like it would be more in harmony with the rest of the pouch, and more of the same delicate look as the main embroidery. (I'm assuming the rest doesn't have any pearls in it?) On the other hand, the contrast might be nice... However, pearls that size might make the pouch a bit less functional, though I don't know if function is exactly the main point here! =} I'm looking forward to pictures of it! I hope you post them. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 16:34:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LYYth009299 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:34:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LYZgG014039; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:34:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23LXTKc076041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:33:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LWOO8079827; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LW636079487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:32:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:23165 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FFHsh-0002NL-Pj for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 15:32:13 -0600 Message-ID: <316d01c63f09$ebdb9650$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060303091006.62307.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 15:32:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:34:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408B66B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO [comments in-line, and lots of snips] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" Hiya, <> E says: Doh! I certainly would have been interested. I don't think I'll be able to make it from Missouri to Ontario anytime soon, unfortunately. <> E says: Oh dear. Hope you get over it quickly! (Have you tried Zicam? It makes everything taste awful, but it works.) <> E says: I was afraid this would be the case. Drea Leed has some pictures of late 16thC/early 17thC coifs, several of which have a type of goldwork, on her site: http://costume.dm.net/headwear/coifpics.html That would be the closest thing to an extant example I've seen, but it looks to me like embroidery with gold-wrapped thread rather than the purl/bullion stuff that screams "MAKE ME" at me whenever I see it. There are a lot of portraits and paintings with something that, at least to my eye, just HAS to be the purl/bullion stuff, but I'd love to have something a tad more solid, like an extant piece or some contemporary manuscripts. Or a nice manual from 1518 on how to do it. Hey, why not dream big? <> E says: Very interesting! That's certainly a lot more than I would have expected. I'm in the process of looking through the extant garment section on one of the embroidery sites that was post earlier--hopefully I'll find some of these there. <> E says: I've just been completely won over by Joady at Hedgehog Handworks, who has now done two very nice and completely unnecessary things (from her point of view) for me, so if what I need is something she has, I'll be getting it from her. She doesn't have the real thing, though, so in a couple of years I'll be bugging Lorina! E says: Thank you so much for the suggestions/reviews of books. I'll be looking into those. And I will feel better about what the back of my work looks like! (Hey, I'll be tacking a lining over the back anyway, so why should I obsess?) <> E says: Very much! Thanks for the info and the great ideas, and go drink lots of liquids and get plenty of rest. =} -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 16:39:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LddNX009491 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:39:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23LdfEf015889; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:39:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23LY2WX076133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:34:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LXxHR081018; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23LXq0x080768 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.24]) by pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FFHmw-0002E4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:26:14 -0500 Message-ID: <17751758.1141421174658.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:26:14 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Goldwork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:39:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408B79D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In case there's anyone who hasn't discovered it yet, there is lots of expertise on goldwork (as well as lots of other subjects) on the Historic Needlework list, which is hosted at: http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/h-needlework I know there's at least one expert on Elizabethan sweet bags on the list (not me!) :) The H-Needlework list is actually a "child" of this list, in that it started from a discussion here of the idea that there ought to be a place where both costume-related and non-costume-related needlework could be discussed at length. It's a good bunch of folks and (need I say) very helpful. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 18:52:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23NqrJE014162 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:52:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k23NqsTo027788; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:52:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23NqNkZ095850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:52:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Nq6wj004456; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:52:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com (msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Nq249004298 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:52:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos1.cos.agilent.com (relcos1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.239]) by msgbas2x.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56515F10 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com (wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com [148.5.6.4]) by relcos1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0B8817 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosbh02.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.126]) by wlvdvs01.lvld.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:51:54 -0700 Received: from wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.80]) by wcosbh02.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:51:54 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:51:53 -0700 Message-ID: <9882D01216FC5249A2A41B86BD89559B0781E579@wcosmb01.cos.agilent.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Thread-Index: AcY/FxXLz6eRdO4xRY2SV8Yr4rguRAABifYA From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 23:51:54.0394 (UTC) FILETIME=[731427A0:01C63F1D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k23Nq249004298 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:52:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408D6D6.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you everyone for your help! Letting out the tops of the side seams just a smidge and then adding "dress improvers" seems to have done the trick :-) Thank you very much! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 21:00:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24204ud017637 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:00:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24201FW004540; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:00:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k241xPcQ010020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k241xKrs001941; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k241xE6n001848 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:59:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FFM362WCw-00024L; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:59:13 -0500 Message-ID: <004001c63f2f$3d0d9170$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <6.2.3.4.0.20060303084227.01dd9a68@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:59:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:00:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408F4A1.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Suzi, My mother buys me cheap little silk or lace fans. I have been caring them around. I have three antique fans that daughters have sold me with letters about how there mothers used them. I like the personal stories that come with them. Their mothers had passed away, and they wanted someone to have them that would appreciate them. One of the fans the Japanese mother had used her whole life. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 21:19:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242JHUK018006 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:19:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242JIsm011034; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:19:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k242Iruf012388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:18:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242IoGb016880; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:18:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52812.mail.yahoo.com (web52812.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k242ImVc016747 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:18:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 72060 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 02:18:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AgPCMhwHNMys400zcMuOz//GviEMV26IGjhvN/dSAmTJYRzuju3BoOQlxZEiVXhiTRwQN9jk0dPNk0rimo0qO+AvSKmX2pVad87RLTnKvjIpDXK2x9bQfv+GDiAMuA0iBDF+BN27Dezxo9DYxfP3H53Y5Vl5rj1KPalpOJ40G1w= ; Message-ID: <20060304021842.72057.qmail@web52812.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52812.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:18:42 PST Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:18:42 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060303111528.C14D4AAC@resin04.mta.everyone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:19:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408F926.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ah, yes, of course -- how silly of me! I love Heyer, and I should have remembered that! Yes, I found that page, too, and felt very cheated when it was just text. I'm still having trouble picturing this, and wondering if Miss Heyer did indeed have a Phrygian hat in mind when she wrote that, but I guess we'll never know for sure! KP Joannah Hansen wrote: The reference you are thinking of comes from chapter 10 of 'Frederica' by Georgette Heyer. 'She had been the mistress of her father's household for too long to suffer agonies of shyness; the orange-blossom dress made for her by Miss Chibbet, and given a touch of a la modality by Charis's clever fingers, was just the thing for a lady who, without being precisely stricken in years, knew herself to be beyond marriageable age; the diamond necklace, bestowed by the late Mr Merriville on his wife, gave her dignity; and the little Alexandrian cap with which, deaf to Charis's protests, she completed her elegant toilette, clearly demonstrated that she was to be ranked amongst the dowagers.' ' Frederica entered the room a little in advance of her sister, and paused for a moment, glancing swiftly round. The impression she created was one of elegance. Not even the Alexandrian cap could make her look in the least like a dowager; but the fashion of her orange-blossom crape, with its bodice cut in the Austrian style, the shawl of Albany gauze caught up over her elbows, the sparkle of diamonds round her throat, and, above all, her quiet assurance, clearly showed that she neither was, nor considered herself to be, a girl in her first bloom. She had more the appearance of a young matron, with several years' experience behind her. Frederica was 24 years old, and was dressed for the ball at which her very beautiful younger sister was to 'come out' to Society. The reference was fresh in my mind because I have just recently reread 'Frederica', for the umpteenth time. I must say, I never got the impression that an Alexandrian cap was anything like a Phrygian cap. I found this link ; http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/lmm/lmm7-14.html but unfortunately there isn't a picture to go with it. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- kjp1685@yahoo.com wrote: Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP "Susan B. Farmer" wrote: Quoting Kathryn Parke : > Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) > google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=phrygian+hat&btnG=Search Susan ----- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 21:33:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242XGjR018298 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:33:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242XIV9015575; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:33:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k242WtY3013978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242Wmff027086; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:32:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242Wcj3027007 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:32:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kristalori@gmail.com) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x29so595126nfb for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:32:37 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=KjNJv6E4wrq4Dw4fpNOp93jP0xaHkUjDQmVoQe/wTB/SfOSMzvdoHnKpE0HZzW1FDxbTVC9LkCkm8/cH7YrflvLg/G+abnLUHi4MajOzqex10flc2OX8uBCNFqs4gHYTlwU/OeIv4mM4SK1UfLzHLhWgi9fkKijGvocSss2z54U= Received: by 10.48.3.3 with SMTP id 3mr29531nfc; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.8.1 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:32:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7164eae90603031832x64140f0cy49542bf2c7c0dfe5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:32:37 -0500 From: "Kristalori (Bice)" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap In-Reply-To: <20060304021842.72057.qmail@web52812.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060303111528.C14D4AAC@resin04.mta.everyone.net> <20060304021842.72057.qmail@web52812.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:33:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408FC6E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k242XGjR018298 Status: RO I *know* I've seen that hat on Regency Era fashion plates but I can't recall where or what years. But I know I saw the hat. It was very stylish. I checked both http://fashion-era.com/regency_taste.htm and http://www.songsmyth.com/index.html and couldn't find it however. But it wasn't a hat as well known as a turban but it was indeed popular enough to be seen in a fashion plate..as I recall the versions I saw were in colors as well. Reds, yellows and white. Bice On 3/3/06, Kathryn Parke wrote: > > Ah, yes, of course -- how silly of me! I love Heyer, and I should have > remembered that! > > Yes, I found that page, too, and felt very cheated when it was just > text. I'm still having trouble picturing this, and wondering if Miss Heyer > did indeed have a Phrygian hat in mind when she wrote that, but I guess > we'll never know for sure! > > KP > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 21:39:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242d30e018454 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:39:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k242d4hQ017355; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:39:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k242chcB014526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:38:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242ceBV031305; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:38:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k242ca41031197 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 19:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.215.13fd86c5 (25508) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:38:29 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <215.13fd86c5.313a57a5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:38:29 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] medieval belt pouch To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 21:39:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4408FDC9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Despite my love of pearls and dark red silk(!), I'd go with the silver too (unless there are pearls in the main design). If the pearls are only at the edge it might look jarring or out of place. Debbie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 23:10:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k244Afwa021436 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:10:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k244AgPG013317; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:10:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2449uGe027923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:09:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2449k5n093119; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:09:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2449gvo093051 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.175] (acty1175.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.175]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3975C69F for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:09:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <44091300.2010703@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:09:36 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period fastenings again References: <20060226093214.96145.qmail@web37514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060226093214.96145.qmail@web37514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:10:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44091342.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, Zuzana. I don't mean to sound disparaging, but, from what I have seen looking at one of these pages (the first, in fact) by Ms. White, this is a perfect example of the phrase "don't believe everything you read on the internet". With the impressive title of "Welcome to a History Lesson", I thought there might have been a little more research done on it. A number of the "facts" presented in the button section as well as the following ones (knitting and crochet) are totally incorrect, and none of the sources for these "facts" are even quoted. I especially liked the "fact" about Francis I. Doing some simple calculations based on the weight and size of a button of the period that I own in brass, and assuming that the button was 1/2 inch across and 1/16th of an ounce, I have calculated that the buttons in brass (and remember silver and gold are heavier) weighed down the clothing to the tune of 53.15 pounds. Not much for a man accustomed to armor, but, basing the button size on 1/2 inch at 13,600 buttons, the buttons, pushed up next to each other, would take up a space of 50 inches by 68 inches. Oddly enough, I've never seen a painting of such a remarkable garment. It would have looked like a Renaissance version of the pearl button clothing worn by Dick van Dyke from Mary Poppins. One would think that such a work would have been memorialized in art, but alas, no such painting has come to my attention. . Perhaps the other references are better documented. Even the last, Stefan's Floriligium, which contains many gems of research within, in this case is merely a discussion which, as it is read, becomes visibly opinionated, or rather, filled with both opinions and facts. The facts are obvious, as they contain their documentation. I would advise crossreferencing any of the "facts" that you come across before deciding to use them. Good Luck, Mike T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 3 23:46:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k244k5xR022950 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:46:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k244k4Gh024070; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:46:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k244jnxG031499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:45:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k244jiJI019247; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:45:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k244jfxJ019130 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:45:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from m.p.decker@att.net) Received: from toshibauser (179.birmingham-04rh16rt.al.dial-access.att.net[12.74.175.179]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <200603040445351130074q4ke>; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:45:35 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> From: "margaret" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:42:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:46:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44091B8C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I want to star making some new stuff for my husband & my self and need a good starting place for Tenth century clothing construction. I have a lot of pictures but nothing on construction. Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 00:33:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k245XEAg025244 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:33:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k245XD0u004448; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:33:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k245Wfpw037507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 22:32:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k245WaU6052094; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 22:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k244dM3t015218 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:39:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from MaddNancy@aol.com) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.20a.1382c5f0 (25508) for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 -0500 (EST) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <20a.1382c5f0.313a73f1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:33:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44092699.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please let me know as I am planning a visit there. Thank you, Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 01:02:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2462HD2027824 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2462IgF012282; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2461pYN041098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:01:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2461j0w072142; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:01:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2461fXZ072073 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:01:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20l3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.163] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FFPpk-0001Mb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 01:01:40 -0500 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060303235347.02d3e320@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:01:32 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200603030910.k239AtkF043717@net.indra.com> References: <200603030910.k239AtkF043717@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 01:02:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44092D6A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO For REALLY cheap stuff to practice with, I've seen (and have a stash of) Christmas decorations that look like a slightly larger and coarser version of rough perl. It's sold in packets as a look-alike for tinsel. It is metal (I have some in pure copper and some in another metal colored blue). I got it because I mostly do fantasy and SF costumes, and from a big stage the larger size and scale is a good thing. But I think you could also use it like "muslin" - the $1 / yd stuff you don't care what color it is because it's just for practice. I think this stuff was a couple of dollars a packet, enough to solidly cover a small evening bag. Sandy "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 03:04:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2484KDE014395 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 03:04:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2484M4F011815; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 03:04:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2482hJ8071066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2482W3I057282; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2482UlB057234 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from carolineebuckley@gmail.com) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m18so112768nfc for ; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:02:28 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ugGigsTT4eww31fdWy3xeb9dQ2LIJhl/GWL+vjvXemwnEqnrzOE18z3Djxb04hQOKhaZHKRHsly6JSsEkyxvjf5dd8wREKKzKwMynjTYonqVy3Fz768uFzWjTlw563fqdbvfy3AFI7riGCpeN5ClyhtDWULBcH2P39eLdQ5slzY= Received: by 10.48.142.9 with SMTP id p9mr1475990nfd; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 00:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.90.14 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:02:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <37ee9e000603040002h20eeacb6k@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:02:28 +0000 From: Caroline To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century In-Reply-To: <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 03:04:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44094A06.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2484KDE014395 Status: RO Which country are you wanting Margaret? On 03/03/06, margaret wrote: > > I want to star making some new stuff for my husband & my self and need a > good starting place for Tenth century clothing construction. I have a lot > of > pictures but nothing on construction. > Margaret > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Caroline "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." G B Shaw _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:07:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24B76NQ019420 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:07:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24B78Ap003772; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:07:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24B6YXx094134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:06:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24B6SHe092668; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:06:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24B6Nqk092577 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:06:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-33.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.33]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24B6Fb9026540 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:06:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:04:57 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:07:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440974DC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I do have another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same webpage that my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If you're at all interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw at mn.rr.com and it is on a first come, first claim basis! http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html Cheers, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:11:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BBmHH020899 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:11:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BBoUr005494; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:11:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BBLVr094597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:11:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BBLXa096663; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:11:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BBIt1096612 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-33.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.33]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BBF57018909 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:11:17 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050500.01d1fb40@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:11:05 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: Subject: [h-cost] a good book deal...16th c. buffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:11:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440975F6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings, While I'm being commercial, I thought I would point out this good deal I have found, this time I have no affiliation. : ) http://www.labyrinthbooks.com/ has a copy of David Starkey's "Six Wives: The Queens of Henry VIII" for $7.98 http://www.labyrinthbooks.com/all_detail.aspx?isbn=069401043X I thought some of you might be interested. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:14:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BEWxp021667 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:14:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BEYRm006547; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:14:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BDdId094738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:13:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BDYj0098486; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:13:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au (ihug-mail.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BDRAU098265 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:13:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: from 203-173-0-241.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO [203.173.0.241]) ([203.173.0.241]) by mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2006 19:13:21 +0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,164,1139155200"; d="scan'208"; a="637548473:sNHT21430252" User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 22:10:25 +1100 Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale From: "Garden, A & J" To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:14:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409769A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I'm interested in: Regency bonnet. Violet with cream ribbons. Dupioni silk. Chenille striped ribbons. Almost completely handsewn. Never worn. Striped silk/cotton blend. Cream, dusty green silk, cotton. 10 yards @ 45" wide. Stripes are parallel to selvedge - close-up colours are more accurate. Indian plaid silk. Royal purple, metallic gold silk, metallic thread. 5 yards 6" @ 42" wide. Stretchy striped boucle wool. Green and black wool. 5 1/4 yards @ 60" wide. The stripes are perpendicular to the selvedge, and the black stripe is somewhat sheer. What are your prices? And how much do they weigh? Thanks, Aylwen > From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:04:57 -0600 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale > > Greetings > > I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I do > have another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same > webpage that my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If you're > at all interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw at > mn.rr.com and it is on a first come, first claim basis! > > http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html > > Cheers, > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:23:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BNthc024649 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:23:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BNvul010160; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:24:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BNbo2095645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:23:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BNYwA010351; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:23:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BNU0H010279 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:23:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from SCLARK935@AUSTIN.RR.COM) Received: from hewlettt06rp0e (cpe-66-68-97-127.austin.res.rr.com [66.68.97.127]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k24BNSeF017093 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:23:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:33:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:24:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440978CD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I would like to know what you are asking for the 2 pieces of royal blue duchesse satin. Thanks, Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:04 AM Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale > Greetings > > I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I do have > another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same webpage that > my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If you're at all interested > in any of it, please contact me at dannw at mn.rr.com and it is on a first > come, first claim basis! > > http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html > > Cheers, > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 06:56:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24BuwR8031949 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:56:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24Bv0KT020846; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:57:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BuWvj098740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:56:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BuNb3034379; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:56:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24BuJES034353 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:56:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-33.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.33]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24BuETh001592 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:56:18 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304055311.01c7a4a0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 05:54:53 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale In-Reply-To: <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:57:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409808C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Susan, The 5 1/2 yard piece is $75 and the 1 1/2 yard piece is $20. Thank you for your interest. Cheers, Danielle At 05:33 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >I would like to know what you are asking for the 2 pieces of royal >blue duchesse satin. > >Thanks, >Susan > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:04 AM >Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale > > >>Greetings >> >>I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I >>do have another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same >>webpage that my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If >>you're at all interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw >>at mn.rr.com and it is on a first come, first claim basis! >> >>http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html >> >>Cheers, >>Danielle Nunn-Weinberg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 09:09:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24E9MaP028313 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24E9NSa030396; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24E8hTe011662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24E8dKP024028; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:08:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52102.mail.yahoo.com (web52102.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.105]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k24E8aqk023944 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 11159 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 14:08:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=tZQwsgDKlKlLBzU86QcezAFm0DeAb5eS9jOLWCtN7gx3z8TrOAw+RoNaFf4fE1nHoYyjwBFGMBZhUhZPmV/zbhojwEg4JziQOSH8a663UVsmC7AYYQ/XogsvhYl6dQ+AkeXiQyrL4T3VOX4DH1TC08HGbL0cI0dJdeCX08XsO+Q= ; Message-ID: <20060304140831.11157.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:08:31 EST Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:08:31 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603040232.k242Wu1D027234@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:09:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44099F93.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Computer is back up and running again. Just tell me where you would like me to send it. > E says: Doh! I certainly would have been > interested. It sounds vaguely familiar, probably from commercials. Im in Canada, so Im not sure we have it. I'll keep my eyes open for it. This cold has hit me fast with an intensity that suggests the gods are punishing me for something as of yet undefined. ;-) Still haven't figured out the connection between the eye infection and the cold though. Seems to be a recent development; every time I get a cold, I get a minor general infection in my eye. > E says: Oh dear. Hope you get over it quickly! > (Have you tried Zicam? These definitely fall under the general heading of goldwork because they contain either passing or jap threads. Basically jap thread is a much heavier version of passing. It's a bigger pain to work with too for anything other than couching. Just plunging the ends through for couching is a pain, I wouldn't want to try and actually pass that stuff through fabric repeatedly. A good indication if something was likely to have been done with jap thread (which has existed forever) or purl is the date. I remember reading somewhere that purl wasn't invented until they would make a strong enough draw plate to make wires that thin. Jap thread is made with beaten gold cut into fine strips, thus doesn't need a draw plate. Memory, as foggy as it is, is ringing a date to something like post 1500. Draw plates have been around since the Roman times, so I'd have to retrack my path to confirm this memory on why there is a difference. > E says: I was afraid this would be the case. Drea > Leed has some pictures of > late 16thC/early 17thC coifs, several of which have > a type of goldwork, on > her site: > http://costume.dm.net/headwear/coifpics.html I'm binding a book for this very reason. :-) I could have just scribbled notes on a piece of paper but noooooo.. I have to go binding those papers just so I can cover it in goldwork! > stuff that screams "MAKE ME" at me whenever I see > it. If you are being particular, you're not likely to find any. But if say you are willing to accept non-european or ecclesiastic head wear, you are more likely to find something. I think there is a miter out there loaded with the stuff. I can't think offhand where at the moment. Thing is, back then, this was pure gold. When the church or whomever owned an item covered in this stuff was in a pinch, they would burn the object to render the gold from it. If you find one of these, share it with the rest of us, would you? ;-) Or a nice manual from 1518 on how to > do it. Hey, why not > dream big? If you take a wander into the roccoco period, you'll find sparkly bits that'll rock your world. :-) They are so shiny they are to the point of garish sometimes. Well, they were back then. They are often badly tarnished today. The underwear I saw at the Met covered in the stuff looks like black and brown embroidery because of the heavy tarnish all over the purls. It'll be exciting to reproduce those and see what they would have looked like when they were first made. > E says: Very interesting! That's certainly a lot > more than I would have > expected. Knots are period!! And I will feel better about > what the back of my work > looks like! You're quite welcome. :-) And yes I will. I'm sweating most of it out - I'm certainly sympathising with the ladies going through the Change at the moment! I swing between freezing and roasting. Blech. > E says: Very much! Thanks for the info and the > great ideas, and go drink > lots of liquids and get plenty of rest. =} Good Luck. Don't get *too* addicted. ;-) Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 10:11:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24FBPUB030488 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:11:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24FBRGp015957; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:11:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24FAtXe034552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:10:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24FAqxi065910; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:10:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24FAna9065867 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:10:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m195.in-tch.com [216.166.191.195]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k24F25A06561 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:02:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002c01c63f9e$d3c00fc0$c3bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060304140831.11157.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:17:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:11:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409AE1F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sue says: One word. Sinuses. Sinuses, nose, eyes, tearducts, ears, eustacian tubes (sp?), all part of the same face. What impacts one part with a cold (usually the sinuses with me) can definitely affect other parts. A few years ago, I got a god-awful cold that morphed into a decent sinus infection (bacteria pig-backing into an already-weakened system, I'm assuming), and as an additional "present" from the germs, I got pink-eye! Didn't know what it was, and when I finally gave in and went to the doctor, he said it was a side-effect of the really bad sinus infection. Nasty, nasty bacteria! Lovely, lovely antibiotics! Obligatory costume content: A bunch of us in my local SCA group have decided to band together and reserve a large meeting room at our local library as a space in which we can cut out fabric. We have gotten to the point of not having anything in the garb closet except decades-old "shabby but still kinda wearable" stuff. From the discussions, it sounds like the newest fashion trend in my part of the historical costuming world will be 9th-11th century Norse. I'll finally have a "reason" and not a "someday I'll use it" excuse for the hoard of amber beads, and the lovely brooches from Raymond's Quiet Press. I have a completely "ripened" stash of wool and linen for this, and it's snowing outside (just in time for the weekend!), so it's a great couple of days for historical costuming! --Sue in March-y Montana, who once took a wonderful class on goldwork from Lin Skinner....*sigh*....I'd love to do it again! ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork > Computer is back up and running again. Just tell me > where you would like me to send it. > > > E says: Doh! I certainly would have been > > interested. > > It sounds vaguely familiar, probably from commercials. > Im in Canada, so Im not sure we have it. I'll keep my > eyes open for it. This cold has hit me fast with an > intensity that suggests the gods are punishing me for > something as of yet undefined. ;-) Still haven't > figured out the connection between the eye infection > and the cold though. Seems to be a recent development; > every time I get a cold, I get a minor general > infection in my eye. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 11:11:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24GBb2t032700 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:11:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24GBc4O032027; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:11:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24G9oEg040296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24G9iEH006241; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24G9fHj006110 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:09:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267A632A46 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:09:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4409BBE1.3000901@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:10:09 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting fabric References: <20060304140831.11157.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com> <002c01c63f9e$d3c00fc0$c3bfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002c01c63f9e$d3c00fc0$c3bfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:11:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409BC3A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > Obligatory costume content: A bunch of us in my local SCA group have decided > to band together and reserve a large meeting room at our local library as a > space in which we can cut out fabric. That's a great idea! I think I'll look into doing that when I cut my 17th century coat. Both of them. Right now I mostly cut on our queen size bed, but that has its limitations. And there's no floor space wider than about 4 feet... not that I would put my fabric on my floor.... Dawn A clean house is a sign of a wasted life _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 12:33:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24HXIgZ003241 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:33:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24HXJTv026254; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:33:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24HWYYR049459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HWPmi071609; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:32:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HWLsn071491 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m130.in-tch.com [216.166.191.130]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k24HNUA02173 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:23:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <000a01c63fb2$94ae0940$82bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060304140831.11157.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com><002c01c63f9e$d3c00fc0$c3bfa6d8@pavilion> <4409BBE1.3000901@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting fabric Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:39:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:33:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409CF5F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO We've done it before, and it doesn't cost us a darned thing. It's a pretty good-sized space, with good-sized tables, and a carpeted floor. We have to reserve in advance, etc., and it may help that one of our members is the Reference Librarian , but it's amazing what you can find out in your community, even in a town the size of Missoula, which is Pretty Darned Big on the Montana scale of things (60, 65? thousand?, second largest in the state), but relatively small compared to other states and locales. You might also try your fire stations. We have regular meetings in the community room/classroom at a rural fire station near where I work. All in all, a LOT easier than trying to cut on a bed, or on a very small apartment floor when there are four "cat critics" more than willing to rumple things, or become weights on your pattern.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cutting fabric > Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > > Obligatory costume content: A bunch of us in my local SCA group have decided > > to band together and reserve a large meeting room at our local library as a > > space in which we can cut out fabric. > > That's a great idea! I think I'll look into doing that when I cut my > 17th century coat. Both of them. Right now I mostly cut on our queen > size bed, but that has its limitations. And there's no floor space wider > than about 4 feet... not that I would put my fabric on my floor.... > > > Dawn > > A clean house is a sign of a wasted life _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 12:43:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24HhohI003664 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24HhqLj029909; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24HhCNp050344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:43:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HhBq0079765; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:43:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24Hh7aw079659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:43:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JQYgf028320 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:26:34 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:47:46 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> In-Reply-To: <000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603041247.46182.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409D1D8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Friday 03 March 2006 6:42 pm, margaret wrote: > I want to star making some new stuff for my husband & my self and need a > good starting place for Tenth century clothing construction. I have a lot > of pictures but nothing on construction. There are a number of web sites that can help. This one lists the basic construction stitches found in Viking/Saxon clothing, with illustrative drawings: http://www.42nd-dimension.com/NFPS/nfps_stitches.html This one discusses types of seams and stitches used in that period, among other things: http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/asvembroid.html This site focuses on Viking tunic construction; although it's based on Viking finds in particular, non-Viking finds in the same period are not too dissimilar. Moreover, though it's based on what are probable male tunic finds, similar patterns can be used for female tunics by adjusting the length. http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/viktunic.html Finally, here are two web sites with specific directions on how to make a generically early period tunic: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners/FirstGarb.html (geared toward total beginners, but with interesting information about selecting period fabrics, and construction). http://www.virtue.to/articles/tunic_worksheet.html (More sophisticated; requires more measurements and some arithmetic, but I've used it and the results are good.) And here's a bibliography of sources about actual finds (again Viking based but not a bad place to start) so you can research construction issues in more detail if you wish. http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/vikgarment.html Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 12:54:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24Hshjw004061 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:54:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24Hsjvk001088; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:54:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24HsFpD051437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HsEeP088506; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:54:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24HsBPV088475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:54:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:25294 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FFaxM-0004FY-9r for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:54:16 -0600 Message-ID: <31ee01c63fb4$a5ff6840$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:54:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 12:54:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409D465.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks for all the info, Lorina... In a couple of years, I may be putting together an order for the rarefied stuff! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 13:31:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24IVSSl005595 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:31:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24IVU8I012791; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:31:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24IUEaX054675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:30:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24IUArl014911; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01-eri0.texas.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.texas.rr.com [24.93.47.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24IU62l014875 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:30:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from SCLARK935@AUSTIN.RR.COM) Received: from hewlettt06rp0e (cpe-66-68-97-127.austin.res.rr.com [66.68.97.127]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.texas.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k24IU4Mx011583 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:30:05 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <009c01c63fb9$bf2d1420$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304055311.01c7a4a0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:30:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:31:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409DD02.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks for the info, I'm afraid I'm going to have to hold off on this :( Thanks, Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale > Hi Susan, > > The 5 1/2 yard piece is $75 and the 1 1/2 yard piece is $20. Thank you > for your interest. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > At 05:33 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >>I would like to know what you are asking for the 2 pieces of royal blue >>duchesse satin. >> >>Thanks, >>Susan >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" >> >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 5:04 AM >>Subject: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale >> >> >>>Greetings >>> >>>I know I'm being naughty posting another commercial message but I do have >>>another bunch of fabric to clear out. They are on the same webpage that >>>my long-suffering husband has done up for me. If you're at all >>>interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw at mn.rr.com and it >>>is on a first come, first claim basis! >>> >>>http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html >>> >>>Cheers, >>>Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:01:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J1IVn006819 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:01:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J1KDZ023676; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:01:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24J0qAX058139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24J0ibV039258; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:00:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24FfJMw085887 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:41:12 -0800 Message-ID: <4409B521.20301@msn.com> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 08:41:21 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245> <001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2006 15:41:12.0136 (UTC) FILETIME=[1089DC80:01C63FA2] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tee Hee-Was: Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was Princess Elizabeth) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:01:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E400.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Along these thoughts I had a funny experience a few weeks ago. I needed to purchase a new sport bra for use while riding horses. I had heard that the Enell bras *http://tinyurl.com/hgbfl *were the best. When I opened the package, my first thought was-jeez, I could have made this. Not sure what I was expecting, and yes, I should have known by the pictures, but they are basically a snug fitting bodice! Were it not for the ugly seam that runs right across the nipple, I could practically use it under some of my earlier garments. Ahhh, how fashion and function runs in a great circle..... Sg :-P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:02:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J2Ofd006873 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:02:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J2QYh009450; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:02:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24J1vqR058395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:01:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24J1vIW040501; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:01:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24Hb3hh075108 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:37:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2473d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.61]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E576547FE65 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:36:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:37:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:02:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E442.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was so fortunate, to get an invitation for a lovely winter gathering at Reine des Centfeuilles and her family. The gathering was from friday evening, til sunday noon. It was lovely to meet some of the Lumieres german members. The generousity of Maurita her family is endless, and i was guest in their house all 3 days. Highlight of it all was my first sleap in a real alcove. Mauritia and Kim had made everything so lovely, and their cooking was deliscious. Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I got many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute to them all. Christian Ludvig de Vollanges.......... Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:03:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J3b6j006932 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:03:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24J3dOD024515; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:03:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24J26D6058447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24J25pI040636; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:02:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24IMwMA009320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-33.sonic.net [209.148.114.33]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k24IMiA1028282 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:22:53 -0800 Message-ID: <4409DAF7.8090405@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:22:47 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: More fabric for sale References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060215070947.01d10b38@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304050214.01d20608@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <011301c63f7f$8674dd00$7f614442@hewlettt06rp0e> <6.2.3.4.0.20060304055311.01c7a4a0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060304055311.01c7a4a0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:03:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E48C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO What do you want for the 10 yards of striped silk/cotton blend on cream and dusty green? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > Hi Susan, > > The 5 1/2 yard piece is $75 and the 1 1/2 yard piece is $20. Thank you > for your interest. > > Cheers, > Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:14:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JEhda007402 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:14:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JEjwT028041; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:14:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JEKbX059462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:14:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JEHao049263; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:14:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JECK3049175 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:14:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [66.43.209.43] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 903288830 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:14:04 -0600 Message-ID: <016601c63fbf$d26c8ab0$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245> <001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub><6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tee Hee Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:14:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:14:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E725.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I would think the "ugly seam that runs right across the nipple" is going to cause you some serious discomfort if you ride for very long at any faster than a walk! Denise > Along these thoughts I had a funny experience a few weeks ago. I needed > to purchase a new sport bra for use while riding horses. I had heard that > the Enell bras *http://tinyurl.com/hgbfl *were the best. When I opened > the package, my first thought was-jeez, I could have made this. Not sure > what I was expecting, and yes, I should have known by the pictures, but > they are basically a snug fitting bodice! Were it not for the ugly seam > that runs right across the nipple, I could practically use it under some > of my earlier garments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:25:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JPJUB007877 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:25:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JPLRk031437; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:25:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JP2LO060545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:25:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JP1Ol057018; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:25:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k24JOufo056933 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:24:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 38762 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 19:24:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=y8GKk4/ZWgqAbWDeuSJypLY5Rt7tu5QewxpvAUc8KkLc5lioDKvRVoeS0gPXZ+jtCOP2fAPmdEluNnhOBAMaA10NNQFSZd5Bl66GfD+/kqJg0tcVwljUaXRTaHuAoxJUO/mCOUPB12q1HqYiwXnNvxxxX9POvCM2d59qnJrmHlE= ; Message-ID: <20060304192456.38760.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:24:56 GMT Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:24:56 +0000 (GMT) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] re: soir? d?hiver X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:25:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409E9A1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne - thank you so much for these lovely photos. What a wonderful weekend you look to have had! Now I want to do 18th century!!! Katherine p.s. can you remind me of the name of the loose gown the gentleman is wearing along with the matching 'turban'? It's gone clean out of my head :-) "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:36:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JaNlc008213 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:36:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JaPdP002290; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:36:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24Ja6EQ061436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24Ja3bG064805; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24Ja0NW064758 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2473d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.61]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C06147FE84 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:35:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c63fc2$eb1eafe0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060304192456.38760.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: soir? d?hiver Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:36:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:36:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409EC39.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Dear Katherine. Yes i was green of envy of him, his outfit is a Banyan. I want, i want, i want. And some slippers............... Mauritia made this off cause.. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "katherine sanders" To: Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] re: soir? d?hiver > Bjarne - thank you so much for these lovely photos. > What a wonderful weekend you look to have had! Now I > want to do 18th century!!! > Katherine > p.s. can you remind me of the name of the loose gown > the gentleman is wearing along with the matching > 'turban'? It's gone clean out of my head :-) > > "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will > annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new > Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:36:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JaS1I008219 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:36:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JaV2r014251; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:36:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JaLAu061511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JaKbc065124; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JaEkQ064891 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:36:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.162]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060304193608.ZLOK18974.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:36:08 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060304133340.0266f040@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:36:03 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200603041609.k24G9isW006247@net.indra.com> References: <200603041609.k24G9isW006247@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:36:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409EC3F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO No , but I happened across a lovely folding fan from late Roman in N. England at the Yorkshire Museum in York. I think that I have a picture around here somewhere if anyone is interested. Beth At 10:09 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST >From: MaddNancy@aol.com > >Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as >to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please >let me >know as I am planning a visit there. > >Thank you, > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:43:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JhmXa008536 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JhoJn004761; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JhVmE062135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JhRbD070028; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JhEfC069833 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVM00JQUC3VXEX1@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:03 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20060304133340.0266f040@mail.alltel.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409EDF6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Nancy! How are things down South?? I have a book on Fans-- I think there are a few-- but most seem to concentrate on 17th C and beylon. I'd love to know, too! Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans No , but I happened across a lovely folding fan from late Roman in N. England at the Yorkshire Museum in York. I think that I have a picture around here somewhere if anyone is interested. Beth At 10:09 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST >From: MaddNancy@aol.com > >Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as >to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please >let me >know as I am planning a visit there. > >Thank you, > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 14:43:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24JhxE9008546 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:43:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24Ji19h015483; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:44:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24JhUFB062134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JhI2C069975; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24JhEfA069833 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 12:43:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVM00JQUC3VXEX1@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:43:03 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20060304133340.0266f040@mail.alltel.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:44:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4409EE01.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oh yes please!! Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans No , but I happened across a lovely folding fan from late Roman in N. England at the Yorkshire Museum in York. I think that I have a picture around here somewhere if anyone is interested. Beth At 10:09 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST >From: MaddNancy@aol.com > >Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as >to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please >let me >know as I am planning a visit there. > >Thank you, > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 16:22:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24LMsQW012291 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:22:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24LMtYX004606; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:22:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24LMEPi073592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24LM8j4050096; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52812.mail.yahoo.com (web52812.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k24LM3WP050015 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 14:22:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48601 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 21:21:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CVQK+YSg60Wf+EXLlJU6BQ4pXpd+JJ5CwqZwbBKZQ07/KTcSFsvnl9K8mnl0F+bh/C4pV/zY5GJruATR14cyNbD8zBNVbl4tOGcCRzPVFoCeXCozjV3VjDU+D9VksdK26pvTXCJvM5ZQSRppGS2NlXL5w3VETualG9kiJl6PQwA= ; Message-ID: <20060304212157.48599.qmail@web52812.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52812.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:21:57 PST Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 13:21:57 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: soir? d?hiver To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060304192456.38760.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:22:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A052F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It's a banyan, isn't it? KP katherine sanders wrote: Bjarne - thank you so much for these lovely photos. What a wonderful weekend you look to have had! Now I want to do 18th century!!! Katherine p.s. can you remind me of the name of the loose gown the gentleman is wearing along with the matching 'turban'? It's gone clean out of my head :-) "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. --------------------------------- Yahoo! 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New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 17:17:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MH0oJ014171 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:17:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MH2Y6021245; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:17:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24MGbRO079498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:16:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MGX5D088896; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MGUjJ088809 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:16:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A1B7018C; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:16:23 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 4 Mar 2006 17:16:18 -0500 Message-ID: <003e01c63fd9$9334c500$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:18:31 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Piecework! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:17:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A11DE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k24MH0oJ014171 Status: RO Hey there, Folk, Have you seen the latest Piecework, yet? "Garden Embroidery" with snippets of a stomacher and an Eliza. purse, plus a lovely coverlet all in florals. There is also a presentation of Stumpwork with instructions and a project. Knit cuffs that might be useful for the reinactor,and a wonderful 'penny rug' for contemplation by the 19th C, folk. There is also an article on collecting and caring for household textiles (including a handful of 'naughty pincushions' that I have not seen before). And finally, a calendar of textile events and shows from around the country. Now there is a summer vacation to think about... Alas, now to make it through April Fool's Day, which I will be celebrating up in West Moreland Cty (Pa.) presenting "Baubles, Bangles, and Beads", another vintage/antique fashion show for a fundraiser for a service club scholarship program. I will be trotting our some of my beaded and fancy clothes one more time... Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 17:23:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MN8TS014364 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:23:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MNA69023106; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:23:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24MMfnR080033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:22:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MMb9o093034; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:22:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MMYRg092964 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:22:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.199]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060304222228.USCP16513.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:22:28 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060304161151.02609b60@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 16:21:22 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k24MMYRg092964 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:23:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A134E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Just got a new catalog of the exhibit "Mit grossen Freuden, Triumph and Kostlichkeit" in today. Item #31 (pp80-81) is a lovely gold on blue Brise Fan (Italian) from the beginning of the 17th century (Inventory # R6125). The book is: Textile Schätze Aus Renaissance Und Barock Aus Den Sammlungen Des Bayerischen Nationalmuseums by Borkopp-Restle, B. ISBN 3925058486 Beth At 10:09 AM 3/4/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 23:39:13 EST >From: MaddNancy@aol.com > >Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as >to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please >let me >know as I am planning a visit there. > >Thank you, > >Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 17:29:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MTwXT014586 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:29:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24MU0XE024945; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:30:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24MTfmQ080605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:29:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MTc39097631; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24MTYFj097566 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:29:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A4C80220; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:29:28 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 4 Mar 2006 17:29:25 -0500 Message-ID: <005001c63fdb$6860cd40$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN> <31ee01c63fb4$a5ff6840$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:31:39 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:30:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A14E8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On the subject of gold work: I picked up a very interesting volume last year that has been tweaking my curiosity enough to go looking for some gold threads. The title is "The Stumpwork, Goldwork and Surface Embroidery Beetle Collection" every kind of beetle and related bug imaginable is reproduced in needlework... I picked it up with the idea of getting inspired to do some of the bees that are found on textiles from the 16th/19th C. particularly during the First French Empire (Napoleon and Josephine) It is awesome! When this whole discussion re gold work came about, I pulled it off the shelf again...Something new to catch my finger's fancy... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork > Thanks for all the info, Lorina... In a couple of years, I may be putting > together an order for the rarefied stuff! > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 18:08:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24N8Swu015980 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:08:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24N8UYj003547; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:08:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24N8EAa084338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24N8DwJ023461; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:08:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24N8Aji023404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FFfr7-0000xt-U0; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:08:09 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:08:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20060304180809.wlkwfb1t8dkog0cc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:08:09 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork References: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN> <31ee01c63fb4$a5ff6840$e100a8c0@compaqub> <005001c63fdb$6860cd40$935083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <005001c63fdb$6860cd40$935083d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:08:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A1DEE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Lloyd Mitchell : > On the subject of gold work: > I picked up a very interesting volume last year that has been tweaking my > curiosity enough to go looking for some gold threads. The title is "The > Stumpwork, Goldwork and Surface Embroidery Beetle Collection" every kind of > beetle and related bug imaginable is reproduced in needlework... I picked > it up with the idea of getting inspired to do some of the bees that are > found on textiles from the 16th/19th C. particularly during the First > French Empire (Napoleon and Josephine) Is there much 16th C (or earlier) things in there? That sounds like something that I'd like to get! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 18:21:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24NLWgq016545 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:21:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k24NLYGc006889; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:21:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24NLBRg085701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24NL5KV032260; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k24NL217032140 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:21:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bella_lucia_da_verona@yahoo.com.au) Received: (qmail 27320 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2006 23:20:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.au; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ohhIYqvAl2kr/56dcYWfaWMbpdq5nLX3XvZLfRs3TOXj6/4hR1qviSPRx2ZtNapXbGod2EMbVWCpTVWsGiZvA6OBBOnj8w3XcoMA48oOnvKbZXD8jBEAoxjkJVnXlX2tEJK4knXuDIzVRZKTFSN//vKALa2pGYa5Tzfp0eYBZFg= ; Message-ID: <20060304232057.27318.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.173.204.67] by web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:20:57 EST Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:20:57 +1100 (EST) From: Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: History of Fans To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20a.1382c5f0.313a73f1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:21:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A20FE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Nancy, there's a gilt brass handle for a feather fan in the V&A. It's from Venice, c1550. Go to the V&A's collections search page at http://tinyurl.com/5ofgk and enter the handle's museum number - 105-1882. Bella The Realm of Venus MaddNancy@aol.com wrote: Does anyone know of any extant 15th or 16th century fans? I am curious as to materials used as well as techniques. If any are in the V&A, please let me know as I am planning a visit there. Thank you, Nancy Stengel Ulmer --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Never miss an Instant Message - Yahoo! Messenger for SMS _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 4 19:25:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k250PeW0018573 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:25:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k250PgT3023583; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:25:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k250Ou1I091262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:24:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k250Ol9t071804; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:24:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k250Oeu2071733 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:24:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AFC101B8; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:24:33 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 4 Mar 2006 19:24:30 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c63feb$7c481100$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c63eae$4b797340$6400a8c0@MAIN><31ee01c63fb4$a5ff6840$e100a8c0@compaqub><005001c63fdb$6860cd40$935083d1@rmitchellras> <20060304180809.wlkwfb1t8dkog0cc@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:26:43 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:25:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A3006.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It does not present items from history as much as demonstrating how to replicate these insects in stump work...using a lot of gold threads. It does speak plainly about handling the necessary fibers and the possible pit-falls of same. The illustrations themselves could be from a 'chapbook' of field studies of beetles (and some of their friends and relations). You might contact me privately about how you could have a 'look-see' before you invest in this volume. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Goldwork > Quoting Lloyd Mitchell : > > > On the subject of gold work: > > I picked up a very interesting volume last year that has been tweaking my > > curiosity enough to go looking for some gold threads. The title is "The > > Stumpwork, Goldwork and Surface Embroidery Beetle Collection" every kind of > > beetle and related bug imaginable is reproduced in needlework... I picked > > it up with the idea of getting inspired to do some of the bees that are > > found on textiles from the 16th/19th C. particularly during the First > > French Empire (Napoleon and Josephine) > > Is there much 16th C (or earlier) things in there? That sounds like > something that I'd like to get! > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 01:37:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k256bQv7031166 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 01:37:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k256bSvb017150; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 01:37:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k256avRg025987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:36:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k256ao3g017709; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:36:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k256ajq0017638 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:36:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from m.p.decker@att.net) Received: from toshibauser (36.birmingham-04rh16rt.al.dial-access.att.net[12.74.175.36]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <200603050636391130073vote>; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:36:39 +0000 Message-ID: <00ae01c6401f$23c64cc0$24af4a0c@toshibauser> From: "margaret" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060303174810.28768.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com><000001c63f46$73875f30$b3af4a0c@toshibauser> <37ee9e000603040002h20eeacb6k@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 00:36:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 01:37:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A8728.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ireland for husband, Florence for myself. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caroline" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Question on tenth century Which country are you wanting Margaret? On 03/03/06, margaret wrote: > > I want to star making some new stuff for my husband & my self and need a > good starting place for Tenth century clothing construction. I have a lot > of > pictures but nothing on construction. > Margaret > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Caroline "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." G B Shaw _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 02:39:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k257daCN000681 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 02:39:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k257dbGv032571; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 02:39:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k257dI6d030431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 00:39:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k257dFrt054919; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 00:39:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k257dAGD054809 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 00:39:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm31.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6B34C2F6 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:39:10 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm31 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060304233909.C1BBCA19@mailweb37.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:39:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Goldwork X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5ECpWdh2yv5gEAAAAB,74d60b832472a525e638ab73806e212c X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 02:39:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440A95B9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO And here's some pictures - probably more than you really want to know - so now you can visualise exactly why you get an eye infection ( or an ear infection )when you get a cold. ( Sorry, but I worked in an Ear,Nose & Throat ward for 4 years. ) http://www.webmd.com/hw/health_guide_atoz/hw208295.asp http://www.commoncold.org/cmplcat1.htm Joannah. ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- mooncat@in-tch.com wrote: Sue says: One word. Sinuses. Sinuses, nose, eyes, tearducts, ears, eustacian tubes (sp?), all part of the same face. What impacts one part with a cold (usually the sinuses with me) can definitely affect other parts. A few years ago, I got a god-awful cold that morphed into a decent sinus infection (bacteria pig-backing into an already-weakened system, I'm assuming), and as an additional "present" from the germs, I got pink-eye! Didn't know what it was, and when I finally gave in and went to the doctor, he said it was a side-effect of the really bad sinus infection. Nasty, nasty bacteria! Lovely, lovely antibiotics! Obligatory costume content: A bunch of us in my local SCA group have decided to band together and reserve a large meeting room at our local library as a space in which we can cut out fabric. We have gotten to the point of not having anything in the garb closet except decades-old "shabby but still kinda wearable" stuff. From the discussions, it sounds like the newest fashion trend in my part of the historical costuming world will be 9th-11th century Norse. I'll finally have a "reason" and not a "someday I'll use it" excuse for the hoard of amber beads, and the lovely brooches from Raymond's Quiet Press. I have a completely "ripened" stash of wool and linen for this, and it's snowing outside (just in time for the weekend!), so it's a great couple of days for historical costuming! --Sue in March-y Montana, who once took a wonderful class on goldwork from Lin Skinner....*sigh*....I'd love to do it again! ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" > Computer is back up and running again. Just tell me > where you would like me to send it. > > > E says: Doh! I certainly would have been > > interested. > > It sounds vaguely familiar, probably from commercials. > Im in Canada, so Im not sure we have it. I'll keep my > eyes open for it. This cold has hit me fast with an > intensity that suggests the gods are punishing me for > something as of yet undefined. ;-) Still haven't > figured out the connection between the eye infection > and the cold though. Seems to be a recent development; > every time I get a cold, I get a minor general > infection in my eye. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 08:11:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25DBEA6025716 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:11:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25DBG5k014894; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:11:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25DAl9H074476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:10:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25DAgk5063688; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:10:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k25DAdDC063639 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:10:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4926 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Mar 2006 13:10:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=eRHAyUO1Osgn9EFVALnOcdGhQJNvRXx4aX92nzLdyvG/ZCAoT5+fhNDiGAbZssfoYtB53ynZZCAGewy1zuSOhaXQj5FxAJ3FJHCTrsADKyvWPIhKDjr8gLL4DHU0uuFpF7HymD/6430qkSzuxt1PqtOffzpiNXpT/2W6SrbuweA= ; Message-ID: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 05:10:34 PST Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 05:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: "h-costume@indra.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:11:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440AE374.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 08:42:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Dghxe026999 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:42:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25DgjU8025045; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:42:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25DgA4N079977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:42:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Dg8np083429; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:42:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Dg4NU083361 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:42:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01267 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:13:04 -0600 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:13:02 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question In-Reply-To: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:42:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440AEAD5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Sun, 5 Mar 2006, Kahlara wrote: > Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best > washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and > wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry > cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool > water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the > same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so > much simpler. No web page, but ... I always wash my wool and linen first, and usually silk too. Wool and silk on cool. Linen on hot if it is undyed, usually warm if it is dyed. In fact, I may wash wool several times first. I want to get as much as possible of the shrinkage done before I cut it. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 08:50:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Doivf027575 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:50:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Dokhc027215; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:50:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25DoUvO081473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:50:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25DoTGW089313; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:50:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25DoQ9i089206 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AC990258; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:50:17 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.141 ([209.131.80.141] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 5 Mar 2006 08:50:02 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c6405c$03b06aa0$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:52:13 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 08:50:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440AECB6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It has been my experience that much of the clothing bought today is labeled 'dry clean only' because of the combination of fibers and materials that are unknown and may not be washable to the same extent. We have become such a wash/dry society and expect everything to be instantly wearable. The one thing I remember from Home Ec as it was still being taught in the 1950s was the basic instructions about clothing care which included 'airing, spot cleaning, hand washing and the like. I grew up with a ringer washer and that taught me another aspect about washing that most contemporary people cannot even conceive. Washing all the fabric and interfacing and even most trims will allow you to continue to wear your garment with the confidence that it will remain as presentable as when it rolled off your sewing table. Any of you out there remember the Talon Zipper ads? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kahlara" To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. > > Thanks, > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 10:45:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25FjvdS031964 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:45:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25FjxS7001977; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:46:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Fjbrm020964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:45:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25FjWYx070006; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:45:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25FjOcU069957 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m222.in-tch.com [216.166.191.222]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k25FadA28019 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:36:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002101c6406c$d30b0c00$debfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000b01c6405c$03b06aa0$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:52:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:46:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B07B7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The "dry cleaning" instructions have as much to do with the dyes as anything (at least according to an old friend who runs one of his family's cleaning businesses). So you may have a normally washable fiber, but one colored with a dye that will turn fugitive with repeated washings. I treat my silks/linens/wools similar to the way that Robin does (in her email), although I think I'm a little more apt to be meaner to my wools, and have very little experience with finer silks. Most knowledgeable people that I've spoken to or learned from directly will say that pre-cutting fabric treatments (washing, drying, etc.) should mimic the treatments you'll give the finished garments. And I'd think that your initial treatment of your wool fabrics might vary a little depending on the weave structure and what type of garment you're planning on making. You may want to make a wool gown, for instance, that is fulled, obscuring the weave and producing a thicker, warmer fabric (easier with plain weaves, and "woolen" fabrics as distinct from "worsted" fabrics). You can then subject your wool to more abuse to full it. Or you may wish to keep your wool un-fulled, as with worsteds, which resist fulling anyways. For these, cool water or drycleaning would be best (and yes, that part's personal knowledge! I ruined a very nice $35/yd wool SCA cloak by washing it *after* I'd made it...what's left might make a very nice, very warm apron dress for a Norse outfit!) One additional point....Watch the decorations you put on your garments. Some stuff won't survive drycleaning (fake pearls being one example), so you might end up hand-washing stuff, or spot-cleaning it (which works really well if you're neat and tidy, and is pretty useless if you're a slob the way I am--I get anything dirty! ;o) If you choose to handwash items (either because of the fragility or other characteristics of the fabric, or because you've added trims, beads, whatnot that would not withstand regular cleaning or drycleaning), be careful that you don't agitate or squeeze or otherwise rub your garment layers together. Especially with garments made of wool. This can cause small-scale fulling and felting, which you might not want! (Of course, the opposite is also true--it's quite possible to deliberately felt a woolen item by hand. I've done it in my kitchen sink to a knitted-and-felted 16th century flat cap.) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > It has been my experience that much of the clothing bought today is labeled > 'dry clean only' because of the combination of fibers and materials that are > unknown and may not be washable to the same extent. We have become such a > wash/dry society and expect everything to be instantly wearable. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 11:25:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GPHC2001070 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:25:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GPJwd014995; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:25:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25GP1T0033103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:25:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GOwNG097189; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:24:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25AD75h047413 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 03:13:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24703.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.3]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B7F226283F for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:13:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:13:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] difference of the sexes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:25:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B10EF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi. When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing that all of us has noticed. All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all ladies garments lined with linnen? Is there any natural explantation of this? Also Mauritia told me, when working on the wedding suit of Christian VII, that his suit was lined with linnen, very unusuall. I told her, that perhaps it was because of the insanity of the king ( he was suffering of skitsofrenia), and that perhaps he used to sweat exceptionally much because of this? I have no idea of that, but back to the difference of the sexes, why do you think they did this? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 11:26:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GQBR9001114 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:26:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GQEDf008729; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:26:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25GPsoW033430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GPs9x098101; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25DFZwA066639 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:15:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24703.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.3]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F1F8A50014 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:15:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c64056$ef1b0b90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:15:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B1126.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Anette, When i made my shirt in the fine linnen, i machine washed it before and used a high temperature. Then the linnen will shrink nicely and the shirt will never shrink any more. Because i have edged the shirt with fine cotton laces, i only handwash it now, but it works fine to pre wash the fabric. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kahlara" To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best > washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I > know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, > but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of > course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method > as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. > > Thanks, > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 11:41:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GfCte001670 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:41:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25GfEkL019339; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:41:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25GeseY038056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:40:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Ger9M009721; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:40:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com ([71.197.44.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GeomY009656 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.1.102]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:37:58 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:40:54 -0600 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <007f01c64073$922dce50$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1830 In-Reply-To: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thread-Index: AcZAVlEu/pGGsGRpQQeTflQ0IoBT1wAHMN8g X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2006 16:37:58.0488 (UTC) FILETIME=[294BAD80:01C64073] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:41:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B14AA.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My information is that dry cleaning helps preserve the fabric treatments used by the manufacturer- either fabric or clothing processes; so fabric of wool, linen, silk or combinations thereof, _can_ be washed, just be prepared for the size/hand/texture to change. (Personally I toss it all in the washer on cold and let the chips, er, scraps fall where they may.) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kahlara Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:11 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 11:43:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Gh03V001734 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:43:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Gh2s8010745; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:43:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25GgjRM038578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:42:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GgijK010997; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:42:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25GggJe010948 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:42:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FFwJa-0000ik-6y for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:42:38 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:41:02 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question References: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<3L8N+Blb4zNSQH4tBJiTWGAXqm>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B1516.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO One tip, especially for linen - take your yardage and zigzag the two raw edges together, into a loop, before you wash it. It's the quickest, simplest way to make sure you don't come out with a spaghetti bundle of frayed threads. Jean Kahlara wrote >Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best >washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. >I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry >cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool >water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the >same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so >much simpler. > > Thanks, > Annette M > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Mail >Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 12:46:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Hkf3I007046 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:46:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25HkhfP005874; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:46:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25HkIi4049025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25HkEhx056027; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S4.cableone.net (s4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25HkAvA055929 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:46:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [72.24.227.122]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 48355636 for ; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:22:52 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:46:08 -0600 Message-ID: <00c601c6407c$af152a00$6701a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcZAVgFPk4+dUvnCRyaFUGjxFsl6eQAJlegQ In-Reply-To: <20060305131034.4924.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 95, in=115, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 72.24.227.122 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:46:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B2403.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO If you really want to know about properties and care of various fabrics, get a college textiles textbook. It will have all the technical details. You could look for a used one on alibris or abebooks. You don't need the most current, up-to-date book, because you are looking for natural fiber info, which hasn't changed much. Try a college library if you don't want to buy. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kahlara Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:11 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 13:06:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25I631s007899 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:06:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25I66qf011650; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:06:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25I56ge051986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:05:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25I54qb068531; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:05:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25I51qp068494 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:05:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [66.43.209.43] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 903781730 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:04:55 -0600 Message-ID: <04e601c6407f$5996d800$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c601c6407c$af152a00$6701a8c0@anteckim> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:05:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 13:06:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B288E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > If you really want to know about properties and care of various fabrics, > get > a college textiles textbook. It will have all the technical details. You > could look for a used one on alibris or abebooks. I took a Textile class in graduate school. Everything you wanted to know about fabric! Great class. The text we used was _Textiles_ (eighth edition) by Sara J. Kadolph and Anna L. Langford. I'm sure there are lots of copies floating around in bookstores or on the internet. I think there is a new edition coming out this year. One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they have to test the garment in what ever method they recommend. For *most* garments, regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to label the garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the poor results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to spend very little money researching other cleaning methods. Basically---"dry clean only" is the default setting on care labels. I've bought plenty of garments made from washable fabrics that had dry clean only in the label. I rarely dry clean *anything* but hand wash or machine wash on gentle instead. As for the original question-- Yes, if you prewash and pre-shrink material, you should be all set, as long as you use the same method to wash the finished garment. In other words--don't wash the yardage on gentle in cold water, then wash the garment in a regular cycle with warm or hot and expect the garment to be unchanged! ;-) Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 13:39:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25IdKos009209 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:39:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25IdMgr022000; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:39:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Id7BR057469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:39:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Id6SN092205; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:39:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S4.cableone.net (s4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Id34B092095 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:39:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [72.24.227.122]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 48358819 for ; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:15:44 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:38:59 -0600 Message-ID: <00c701c64084$11ad5230$6701a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcZAfwLhoqtPnDoDSfq3TFsK+GECdQABOByA In-Reply-To: <04e601c6407f$5996d800$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 95, in=116, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 72.24.227.122 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 13:39:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B305A.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Denise wrote: "I took a Textile class in graduate school. Everything you wanted to know about fabric! Great class. The text we used was _Textiles_ (eighth edition) by Sara J. Kadolph and Anna L. Langford. I'm sure there are lots of copies floating around in bookstores or on the internet. I think there is a new edition coming out this year." Kadolph's book is now in its 9th edition. That is expensive, but previous edition can be picked up for only a few dollars, and would be well worth it. Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 14:01:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25J0v7Y010184 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:01:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25J0xAi028128; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:01:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25J0WEQ061725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:00:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25J0UgY007778; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:00:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25J0Gr1007541 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FFySf-000GIh-7i for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:00:09 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:58:37 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes References: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<7Y7N+Nw34zdDeE4t4VjTW2MKaz>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:01:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B356C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne, I don't know much about the period, but is there a difference between how close the garments are to the body? I'm thinking of a man's waistcoat and coat compared to a woman's dress, I would imagine a man's shirt is a more substantial garment than a woman's shift, and therefore offers more protection to the outer layers. Alternatively, does the silk help the waistcoat and coat move over the heavier linen of the shirt and the outer layer of the waistcoat, while women are not wearing layers that move against each other to the same extent? Jean Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote >Hi. >When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing that >all of us has noticed. >All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all >ladies garments lined with linnen? >Is there any natural explantation of this? >Also Mauritia told me, when working on the wedding suit of Christian >VII, that his suit was lined with linnen, very unusuall. I told her, >that perhaps it was because of the insanity of the king ( he was >suffering of skitsofrenia), and that perhaps he used to sweat >exceptionally much because of this? I have no idea of that, but back to >the difference of the sexes, why do you think they did this? > >Bjarne > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 14:06:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25J6Nir010397 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:06:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25J6QVD029751; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:06:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25J55Q6062859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:05:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25J54ao011962; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k25J4w50011889 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:05:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 24696 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2006 20:08:57 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:08:57 -0800 Received: from 67.169.138.79 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:06:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1100.67.169.138.79.1141585577.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:06:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:06:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B36B2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > Hi. > When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing that > all > of us has noticed. > All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all > ladies > garments lined with linnen? > Is there any natural explantation of this? Bjarne, Maybe smells come out of silk easier? In my experience, men and women sweat the same but male sweat is...um...stronger smelling. So maybe linen holds smells longer than silk? Or it was easier to clean? Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 14:22:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25JMLTN011049 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:22:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25JMO81002309; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:22:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25JLjOK065549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:21:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25JLi1b023668; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:21:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25JLdeD023538 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:21:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AA3C02C8; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:21:32 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.144 ([209.131.80.144] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 5 Mar 2006 14:21:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c6408a$4db04520$905083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c601c6407c$af152a00$6701a8c0@anteckim> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:23:34 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 14:22:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B3A70.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ah, but many of the products for washing and cleaning have changed! This will have some small effect on the textiles being treated...from my own experience. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > If you really want to know about properties and care of various fabrics, get > a college textiles textbook. It will have all the technical details. You > could look for a used one on alibris or abebooks. You don't need the most > current, up-to-date book, because you are looking for natural fiber info, > which hasn't changed much. > Try a college library if you don't want to buy. > > Kim > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kahlara > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:11 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question > > Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best > washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I > know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but > if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), > would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well > without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. > > Thanks, > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 15:27:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KRBEg013089 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:27:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KRDRO020404; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:27:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25KQFcX074761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:26:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KQAl2067434; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:26:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KQ6Wd067286 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Theresathreadgi@aol.com) Received: from Theresathreadgi@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2b3.5b7112a (4426) for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:25:58 -0500 (EST) From: Theresathreadgi@aol.com Message-ID: <2b3.5b7112a.313ca356@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:25:58 EST Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[h-cost]=20soir=E9=20d=B4hiver?= To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5121 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:27:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B49A1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. Not my time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed very grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the trip went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 15:41:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KforR013596 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:41:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Kfrrg024683; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:41:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25KfKFK077323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KfJbU078473; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:41:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav11.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Kf56P078307 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:41:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:41:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV11.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 20:40:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2b3.5b7112a.313ca356@aol.com> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:40:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2006 20:41:00.0740 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CFEC040:01C64095] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:41:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B4D11.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Is this Baroque or Roccoco time frame? I would like to make a Mother Ginger costume with the same shape as the yellow and pink gown. Does anyone know the year span for this gown? I'll need to buy a pattern if at all possible. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm > Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. Not > my > time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed > very > grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the > trip > went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 15:52:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KqWDn013927 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:52:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25KqZxN027528; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:52:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25KqGa2079237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:52:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KqFel086612; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:52:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25KqBR8086487 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:52:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.22e.77e2756 (16930) for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:52:03 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <22e.77e2756.313ca973@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:52:03 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:52:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B4F93.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/5/2006 11:25:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all ladies garments lined with linnen? Is there any natural explantation of this? I don't think that is necessarily true. I'm sure there are men's coats and waistcoats lined with linen. However, my two cents' worth--a man's shirt covered him more completely than a woman's shift, I think, so he had a fuller under layer of linen next to his skin. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 16:58:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25LwHmU017341 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:58:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25LwJK8012851; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:58:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Lvxpv089153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:57:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Lvs0r032533; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:57:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Lvp8V032415 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:57:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41B79A1F78 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:57:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440B5F07.4050503@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:58:31 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes References: <003301c6403d$752f1380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:58:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B5EFB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > > Alternatively, does the > silk help the waistcoat and coat move over the heavier linen of the > shirt and the outer layer of the waistcoat, while women are not wearing > layers that move against each other to the same extent? > You may have something there... it also occurs to me that men wore their clothing open, and the lining showed. Women's gowns and jackets are worn closed, so maybe the lining doesn't need to be as fancy. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 17:21:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25MLetP017999 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:21:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25MLh7J019275; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:21:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25MLCre092691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:21:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25MLAkE048373; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:21:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25ML1jP048249 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:21:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.d9.381aad22 (58435) for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:20:51 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:20:51 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:21:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B6477.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/5/2006 4:58:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: > You may have something there... it also occurs to me that men wore their > clothing open, and the lining showed. Women's gowns and jackets are worn > closed, so maybe the lining doesn't need to be as fancy. > > ************************** Beat me to it! You see the lining of a man's coat....especially if he takes it off for some reason....then you see the waistcoat back! But I think a lot of waistcoat backs are linen and even sleeve linings in coats are linen too with the body in silk. This supports the "If you might see it.....line it in silk" theory. Also supportive of this line of thinking: What are doublets lined in? A lot in linen. Are there more jerkins [sometimes worn open and you might see the lining] lined in silk? I dunno. Good question. Ask yourself also, What are women's cloaks lined in? Is there more silk there? Again I dunno. Anyway....I think this is the answer. It might be seen. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 17:50:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25ModmL018712 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:50:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25Mof90026779; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:50:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25MoSlt096791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:50:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25MoQOE067609; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:50:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25MoNFm067573 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247cc.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.204]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 53722262805 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:50:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000801c640a7$38f4ef10$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2b3.5b7112a.313ca356@aol.com> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:50:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:50:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B6B41.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Becky, Well it is not baroque, and not quite rococo neither, its the time from 1770-80, also called Louix XVI, or neo classical style. For a pattern, well its a little difficult. If you meen a ready made pattern, ready to cut, i dont know, but if you know a little about pattern making, you could use Jean Hunnisets book Costumes for Screen and Stage. The 2nd vollume. In this you will find both a corset, pannier (hoop frame) and a robe a la francaise like the pink dress. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > Is this Baroque or Roccoco time frame? I would like to make a Mother > Ginger costume with the same shape as the yellow and pink gown. Does > anyone know the year span for this gown? I'll need to buy a pattern if at > all possible. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > > >> In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, >> drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: >> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm >> Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. >> Not my >> time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed >> very >> grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the >> trip >> went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 17:58:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25MwSTi018931 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:58:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25MwU6o028640; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:58:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Mw9el097990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:58:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Mw7qs072750; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:58:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25Mw43l072701 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:58:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247cc.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.204]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A1D99A5002C for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:58:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c640a8$4f3c67c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:58:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?Soir=E9e_d=B4hiver?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:58:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B6D16.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Forgot to add, that when i get more time, ill make the pictures clickable for bigger ones. And did you notice the petrol blue suit? Mauritia found a provider of real silk velvet in the quality for 18th century. 100 % silk. It was gorgeous to look at. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 18:12:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25NCgkV019319 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:12:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25NCjnt032496; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:12:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25NBBVV099829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:11:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25NBAnp081607; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:11:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25NAuTD081450 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:11:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.260.7f57b1f (1320) for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:10:46 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <260.7f57b1f.313cc9f6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:10:46 EST Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 18:12:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B706D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO no problem at all with washing pure linen - reacts a lot like an untreated cotton - as long as you pre shrink it (washing machine, hottest setting) it'll be pretty much fine in normal washes. obviously depends on the looseness of the weave, etc, (if a very loose weave, it may need shrinking twice), and may change some of the fabric properties, but I don't usually have a problem. washing is fine for a wool that's not heavily felted, or a superfine (one that doesn't have a very smooth, shiny, or napped surface). I'd do the same for wool as for linen - hot setting (not necessarily the hottest this time, due to the (often) greater shrinkage). the reason you can't wash (or steam / steam press for that matter), felted wools and superfines is that heat and moisture are used during the finishing processes. I've actually used steam to 'un-face' scraps of cloth from hainsworths for making medieval livery badges (or so that I can rip out the thread to do embroidery that has to match the garment cloth exactly). the resulting fabric looks and feels completely different. behaves differently too. anyway the end result being either that the wonderful finish that was the reason for buying the cloth in the first place is gone, or (depending on the precise type of cloth), the life of the fabric can be reduced by as much as 25 - 40 % (ish). sometimes you get both results. same applies to tumble drying, obviously, as you're introducing heat to cloth that's already moist! and of course, in the case of overcoatings etc, the water resistant properties will usually be either reduced, or just completely eliminated. debs (ps it really irritates me when customers wash heavily felted wools (hainsworths again) when I've told them not to, and they then wonder why it shrinks and loses its lustre - duh!) but as I said ordinary wool should be fine as long as you don't later wash it a hotter setting that the original wash. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 18:35:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25NZfHT019847 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:35:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k25NZhXJ005794; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:35:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25NZMiw003758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:35:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25NZIsb098540; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav17.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k25NZFQd098497 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:35:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:35:14 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 23:35:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2b3.5b7112a.313ca356@aol.com> <000801c640a7$38f4ef10$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:35:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2006 23:35:14.0909 (UTC) FILETIME=[742A58D0:01C640AD] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 18:35:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B75CF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I've read all that I can find on the gown. I have that book ordered so it's on its way. I should have checked your site more. The costumes/garb are wonderful. The photos look as if someone opened a door to the past. Totally a cottage weekend for a group of friends. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > Hi Becky, > Well it is not baroque, and not quite rococo neither, its the time from > 1770-80, also called Louix XVI, or neo classical style. > For a pattern, well its a little difficult. If you meen a ready made > pattern, ready to cut, i dont know, but if you know a little about pattern > making, you could use Jean Hunnisets book Costumes for Screen and Stage. > The 2nd vollume. > In this you will find both a corset, pannier (hoop frame) and a robe a la > francaise like the pink dress. > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Becky" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:40 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > > >> Is this Baroque or Roccoco time frame? I would like to make a Mother >> Ginger costume with the same shape as the yellow and pink gown. Does >> anyone know the year span for this gown? I'll need to buy a pattern if at >> all possible. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver >> >> >>> In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: >>> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm >>> Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. >>> Not my >>> time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed >>> very >>> grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the >>> trip >>> went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 19:14:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k260ERH8020969 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:14:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k260ET48016436; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:14:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k260E7ca009407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k260E5E2026193; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k260DsCZ026009 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.168] (pm5-168.eos.net [205.133.149.168]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k260DpIM018437 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:13:52 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 20:01:54 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603050740.k257e2P4055473@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Piecework X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:14:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B7EE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kathleen wrote: > Hey there, Folk, > Have you seen the latest Piecework, yet? "Garden Embroidery" with snippets of > a stomacher and an Eliza. purse, plus a lovely coverlet all in florals. There > is also a presentation of Stumpwork with instructions and a project. Knit > cuffs that might be useful for the reinactor,and a wonderful 'penny rug' for > contemplation by the 19th C, folk. There is also an article on collecting and > caring for household textiles (including a handful of 'naughty pincushions' > that I have not seen before). And finally, a calendar of textile events and > shows from around the country. Naughty pincushions???? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 5 19:36:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k260aC2U021432 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:36:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k260aElF022550; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:36:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k260a0Sn013264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:36:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k260ZwfM041056; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:35:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k260ZoP1040962 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:35:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247cc.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.204]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C3358A50024 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:35:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c640b5$f504ab60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <22e.77e2756.313ca973@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:36:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:36:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440B83FF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO But the woman would have both a shift and the stays to protect, most of the bodice has the stays behind. Only the shoulder pieces perhaps is not protected. Could it simply be, that men was feeling a bigger rank, than a woman, and therefore was using silk in stead of linen. I know there are mens garments lined with linnen, but most aristocracy fashion is lined with silk. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes > > In a message dated 3/5/2006 11:25:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all > ladies > garments lined with linnen? > Is there any natural explantation of this? > > > > I don't think that is necessarily true. I'm sure there are men's coats > and > waistcoats lined with linen. > > However, my two cents' worth--a man's shirt covered him more completely > than > a woman's shift, I think, so he had a fuller under layer of linen next to > his skin. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 00:37:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k265bud9030628 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:37:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k265bwJI007287; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:38:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k265bVfk049071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k265bObq040947; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:37:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k265bJaU040829 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:37:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from web3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060306053713.OFSA6239.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@web3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:37:13 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by web3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060306053713.ERQZ22512.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:37:13 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.2/274]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:37:15 +1300 Message-ID: <003701c640e0$06b3b390$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <22e.77e2756.313ca973@aol.com> <000701c640b5$f504ab60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:37:14 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 00:38:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BCAB6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > But the woman would have both a shift and the stays to protect, most of the > bodice has the stays behind. Only the shoulder pieces perhaps is not > protected. Perhaps it's the stays that is the issue? Men don't wear something that stiff under their garments which would mean the lining doesn't need to protect the garment from so much spot specific rubbing? It depends on the quality and thrength of the silk and the linen respectively of course. It could also be that men's garments are more likely to be taken on and off or open than a woman's dress so you are going to want the inside to look nicer. No idea, just throwing ideas out there;) But those are factors that I think of when lining my garments. Support, durability and what might be seen and buy whom. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 00:41:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k265f0F8030693 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:41:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k265f2Fb008043; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 00:41:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k265ef9g049475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k265ef2k043167; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k265eaNs043028 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:40:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060306054031.NMBH11571.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:31 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.183.2]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060306054030.SXM18564.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:30 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.1.2/274]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:40:39 +1300 Message-ID: <004701c640e0$80578870$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:39 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 00:41:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BCB6E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm > I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I got > many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute to them It all looks so wonderful. How absolutely wonderful to be able to attend an event like this:) Thank you for sharing the event with us:) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 01:14:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k266EL0M031747 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:14:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k266ELHo017164; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:14:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k266E7en052645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:14:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k266E6g4061924; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:14:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k266E23T061875 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:14:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A20C74006AE; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 06:09:16 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:14:04 -0800 Message-ID: <000e01c640e5$2bbd1be0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <1100.67.169.138.79.1141585577.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k266E23T061875 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 01:14:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BD33D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Maybe it has to do with linen breathing better? Those of us going thru menopause would understand and appreciate a cooler outfit. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Diana Habra Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes > Hi. > When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing > that all of us has noticed. > All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all > ladies > garments lined with linnen? > Is there any natural explantation of this? Bjarne, Maybe smells come out of silk easier? In my experience, men and women sweat the same but male sweat is...um...stronger smelling. So maybe linen holds smells longer than silk? Or it was easier to clean? Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 01:39:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k266dZB3032407 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:39:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k266dcrV025755; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:39:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k266dGo1054897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:39:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k266dEjx076934; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:39:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k266d92O076857 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 23:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 91335 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2006 06:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.143.33.41 with login) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2006 06:39:08 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060306062711.01dddbc0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 06:39:08 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] difference of the sexes In-Reply-To: <000e01c640e5$2bbd1be0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <1100.67.169.138.79.1141585577.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <000e01c640e5$2bbd1be0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 01:39:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BD92A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 06:14 06/03/2006, you wrote: >Maybe it has to do with linen breathing better? Those of us going thru >menopause would understand and appreciate a cooler outfit. >Sharon > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Diana Habra >Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:06 AM >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Early in the 18th century there are so many layers of horsehair, crin, and linen stiffening the silk lining was probably for comfort, but would not much be seen, except maybe inside the front opening at the chest. Later, in the middle of the century the lining can be seen on the back skirts, from in front, without the man ever taking off or opening his coat. It's just the way it is made. Many late 18th century coats are actually worn fastened only with a couple of hooks on the chest, allowing the fronts to fall open and reveal the lining. Facing the fronts with fashion fabric is not usually an option until very late in the century, when coats with tails become popular. Early the following century the "tails" are almost always fully lined in fashion fabric, and the fronts are faced back as far as the underarm with fashion fabric. The insides are tend to be left unlined except for some linen reinforcement across the shoulders. As someone else said, the inside of a woman's bodice would not be seen, so there would be no need to waste a comparatively expensive fabric on something unseen. Just my 2 penn'orth. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 04:24:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269OTvF032470 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:24:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269OV1c007840; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:24:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k269NgXc072695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:23:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269NZJP087723; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:23:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269NV0a087591 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:23:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k269NL327496.; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:23:25 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:23:21 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:23:15 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k269NV0a087591 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:24:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440BFFCF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> Joannah@sluggy.net 03/03/2006 19:15 >>> wrote: >The reference you are thinking of comes from chapter 10 of 'Frederica' by Georgette Heyer. [snip] >"... and the little Alexandrian cap with which, deaf to Charis's protests, she completed her elegant toilette, >clearly demonstrated that she was to be ranked amongst the dowagers.' >I must say, I never got the impression that an Alexandrian cap was anything like a Phrygian cap. ______________________________________________________________________ No, I can't imagine a Phrygian cap being something that a dowager would wear. Surely the association with the French Revolution would make it something that only a daring, trendy person would have? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 04:48:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269mL3L005932 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:48:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269mNpJ014232; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:48:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k269m6I3074974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:48:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269m4fT002233; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:48:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269m1iH002179 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:48:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm30.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2C6192E8 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:48:00 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm30 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060306014800.C1BC46F3@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:48:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EDAVQeUdpsAEAAAAB,e0c4bd4f8103bd36877290dc20182090 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:48:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C0567.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >--- K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk wrote: > >>>> Joannah@sluggy.net 03/03/2006 19:15 >>> wrote: >>The reference you are thinking of comes from chapter 10 of 'Frederica' by Georgette Heyer. >[snip] >>"... and the little Alexandrian cap with which, deaf to Charis's protests, she completed her elegant toilette, >>clearly demonstrated that she was to be ranked amongst the dowagers.' > >>I must say, I never got the impression that an Alexandrian cap was anything like a Phrygian cap. > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >No, I can't imagine a Phrygian cap being something that a dowager would wear. Surely >the association with the French Revolution would make it something that only a >daring, trendy person would have? I also can't picture that Frederica would have worn something with that sort of connotation, to such a potentially important social event, especially when it was of the utmost importance to provide her family with the appearance, at least, of an impeccable family background. Joannah. ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 04:54:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269sFu4007555 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:54:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k269sIRm015691; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:54:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k269s8i9075793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269s7bV006448; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:54:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k269s5gp006421 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 02:54:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm27.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 567FD19DDD for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:54:05 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060306015405.C1BC46B5@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:54:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtoLWNvc3RdIFNvaXLDqWUgZMK0aGl2ZXI=?= X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EDAa9ullXmwEAAAAB,015a91f1e8275f9356d37abceab4cf81 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:54:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C06CA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Please do, it was the only thing wrong with the pictures, that we couldn't enlarge them to see details better. It looks like it was a lovely weekend, I'm glad you had a great time. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: Forgot to add, that when i get more time, ill make the pictures clickable for bigger ones. And did you notice the petrol blue suit? Mauritia found a provider of real silk velvet in the quality for 18th century. 100 % silk. It was gorgeous to look at. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 07:13:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26CDarR007858 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:13:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26CDdUj018475; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:13:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26CD9Wj088886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:13:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26CD7Oa091973; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:13:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26CD4bP091878 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCA2K27AV4ZG9S for (sender ); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 04:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LJSEK9H8; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 04:11:50 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:10:12 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) Message-ID: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,10-20,23-24 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 8:4:2232963452 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7htOm+ByAQzzOpErYEThA6C02OdVEQ0SAQ== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m02.lax.untd.com|llwatts@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:13:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C2773.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > have to > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. >For *most* garments, > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > label the > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > poor > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > spend > very little money researching other cleaning methods. I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To Be Held Responsible". Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 08:31:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DVZ96010684 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:31:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DVbK9013182; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:31:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26DVBwB097457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:31:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DV7Z5044049; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:31:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DV4Ev043970 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:31:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A99101B8; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:30:57 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 6 Mar 2006 08:30:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c64122$7c926420$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:32:57 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:31:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C39B9.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to survive the cleaning. Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) ads when all the new fibers began to come out in the 1950s? Some of the American labels such as Jonathan Logan took great pride that you could depend on their products not to shrink or misshape in the wearing (and caring) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah L Watts" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > > have to > > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. > > Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think > Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for > inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently > in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the > company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because > they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. > > >For *most* garments, > > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > > label the > > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > > poor > > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > > spend > > very little money researching other cleaning methods. > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > Be Held Responsible". > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 08:36:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Dauvq010845 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:36:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DaxEt015620; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:37:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26DaYkK098078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:36:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DaXv6047869; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:36:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav14.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DaVu0047831 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:36:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:36:30 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:36:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:36:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 13:36:30.0704 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA156F00:01C64122] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:37:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C3AFB.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Both of the Mums in our household are going through the change, we have hand fans stashed everywhere in our re enacting kit! Most of them are the sandlewood variety. Kelly Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 08:45:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DjdGN011111 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:45:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Djgal019494; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:45:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26DjR3m098841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:45:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DjQKQ054083; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav5.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DjORg054046 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:45:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 05:45:20 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:45:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:45:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 13:45:20.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[35FA6BF0:01C64124] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:45:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C3D06.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was thinking shoulder strap too...It sound like you may have to unpick the strap seam, and take up the front shoulder at an angle from it's original, not touching the original back shoulder seam. You may also want to interline the bodice with your interlining cut so the shoulder strap is on the straight of grain. Kelly > On 3/3/06, Cin wrote: >> >Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the >> Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the >> fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about >> 1/2" above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) >> it extends about 3" into the bust, > Yet another possible cause, the shoulder strap wants to lie slightly > outside or inside of where it was designed to go. You may have to > release the side & CB seams, then pivot or slide the section until the > straps lie right. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 08:50:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DoBi7011251 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:50:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26DoEnE021310; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:50:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Do1iG099247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:50:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26Do1hZ057176; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:50:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26DnwHI057061 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:49:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id ADFF02A4; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:49:51 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 6 Mar 2006 08:49:48 -0500 Message-ID: <003101c64125$26716980$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Piecework Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:52:02 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:50:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C3E16.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This group of a single gartered, lace covered leg, provocatively extended from various froths of silk skirts and petticoat. There are 5! each one more delicious than the other... A very cute idea. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Piecework > Kathleen wrote: > > > Hey there, Folk, > > Have you seen the latest Piecework, yet? "Garden Embroidery" with snippets of > > a stomacher and an Eliza. purse, plus a lovely coverlet all in florals. There > > is also a presentation of Stumpwork with instructions and a project. Knit > > cuffs that might be useful for the reinactor,and a wonderful 'penny rug' for > > contemplation by the 19th C, folk. There is also an article on collecting and > > caring for household textiles (including a handful of 'naughty pincushions' > > that I have not seen before). And finally, a calendar of textile events and > > shows from around the country. > > > Naughty pincushions???? > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:11:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EBaev012593 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:11:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EBaTl030608; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:11:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26EB7FF001409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EB5dL072274; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EB2le072164 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:10:56 -0800 Message-ID: <440C42FF.5040608@msn.com> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:11:11 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= References: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 14:10:57.0073 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9BC5210:01C64127] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:11:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C4318.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The setting is just aweson. It looks like so much fun....if you get time, could you link the pictures to their larger form? There are some details that would be fun to look at. Speaking of which what is on the man's pony-tail in the picture: last column, second row. Is it wrapped in ribbon? Is this something they would have done? Thanks, for sharing. Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I was so fortunate, to get an invitation for a lovely winter gathering > at Reine des Centfeuilles and her family. > The gathering was from friday evening, til sunday noon. > It was lovely to meet some of the Lumieres german members. > The generousity of Maurita her family is endless, and i was guest in > their house all 3 days. Highlight of it all was my first sleap in a > real alcove. Mauritia and Kim had made everything so lovely, and their > cooking was deliscious. > Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm > I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I > got many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute > to them all. > > Christian Ludvig de Vollanges.......... > > > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:11:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EBt1l012622 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:11:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EBvlu031691; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:12:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26EBfsM001468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EBXf1072624; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EBT8K072509 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVP001CZM2HU0B2@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:11:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:11:04 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) In-reply-to: <000f01c64122$7c926420$935083d1@rmitchellras> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:12:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C432D.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi-- I was a designer / patternmaker and technical designer in the garment industry for 24 years. Do not blame the manufacturer (the people who actually sew the garment) for the wording of care labels. Very often the people who make the garment follow what is demanded by the Customer (the people who order the garment from the manufacturer: Disney,. Walmart, Sears etc.) The customer gives the manufacturer a manual that gives phrases and the care label must be taken from that. The Federal Government also prevents the manufacturer from doing "preventative care labling": unless you know that a certain fabric will react by doing something (eg: pouring chlorine bleach on a swimwear fabric) you cannot say "do not bleach". The problem with this is that sometimes the customer insists on going the extra step in stupidity-- over the advice of the manufacturer. I once had an on-going agrument with Nordstroms about using non-chlorine bleach on a chiild's swimsuit. I lost. They insisted that the label say "non-chlorine bleach as needed". The fabric was done no favors with that! Don't blame the manufacturer, blame the people who place the order with the manufacturer. We have our own share of frustrations. (Don't get me started on off-shore manufacturing...) Yours- Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to survive the cleaning. Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) ads when all the new fibers began to come out in the 1950s? Some of the American labels such as Jonathan Logan took great pride that you could depend on their products not to shrink or misshape in the wearing (and caring) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah L Watts" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > > have to > > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. > > Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think > Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for > inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently > in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the > company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because > they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. > > >For *most* garments, > > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > > label the > > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > > poor > > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > > spend > > very little money researching other cleaning methods. > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > Be Held Responsible". > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:12:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26ECxR9012656 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:12:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26ED2UU028027; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:13:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26ECkW5001598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:12:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26ECkt5073470; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:12:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EChH4073405 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:12:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:12:38 -0800 Message-ID: <440C4364.4010708@msn.com> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:12:52 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tee Hee References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060226153031.03593be0@64.87.54.245> <001f01c63c86$2757fd80$e100a8c0@compaqub><6.2.1.2.0.20060228201915.0371dc08@64.87.54.245> <016601c63fbf$d26c8ab0$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> In-Reply-To: <016601c63fbf$d26c8ab0$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Mar 2006 14:12:38.0074 (UTC) FILETIME=[05EFD9A0:01C64128] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:13:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C436E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO For whatever reason, it doesn't cause any discomfort. It is a very comfortable bra....it does cause an odd shape for the modern taste though! Land of Oz wrote: > I would think the "ugly seam that runs right across the nipple" is > going to cause you some serious discomfort if you ride for very long > at any faster than a walk! > > Denise _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:20:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EKrwq012907 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:20:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EKtTT002481; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:20:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26EJwqX002412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:19:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EJuLG078782; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:19:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EJiKA078655 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:19:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.148] (pm5-148.eos.net [205.133.149.148]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k26EJgIM028018 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:19:42 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:07:39 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603060537.k265bXib041045@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: petrol blue suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:20:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C4548.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne: Wow! 100% silk! It looks so good in the pictures, it must have been amazing in real life. What a wonderful time you must have had. If I ever recreated that time period, I would have to be a servant! I would want everything to be perfect, not just "like" the real thing. But I think I could deal with that! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:35:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EYx24013416 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:34:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EZ1cu008613; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:35:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26EY7rl004476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:34:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EY4YM090764; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:34:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26EY0fQ090637 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:34:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k26EXsD04168.; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:33:54 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:33:53 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:33:34 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[h-cost]=20soir=E9=20d=B4hiver?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k26EY0fQ090637 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:35:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C4895.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >>> wickedfrau@msn.com 06/03/2006 14:11 >>> >The setting is just aweson. It looks like so much fun....if you get >time, could you link the pictures to their larger form? There are some >details that would be fun to look at. Speaking of which what is on the >man's pony-tail in the picture: last column, second row. Is it wrapped >in ribbon? Is this something they would have done? He looks like a military man, and I think they did wrap their queue in ribbon, presumably to keep it tidy when in action. Kate Bunting (also looking forward to seeing Bjarne's pictures in larger format) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 09:54:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EsJ46014136 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:54:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26EsL26017246; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:54:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26ErnDG007372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:53:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26Erkdl008594; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:53:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26Ebupm094089 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247cc.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.204]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4324247FE75 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:37:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002301c6412b$9b4d2040$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:38:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:54:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C4D1D.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Saragrace, I am working on it right now, and more pictures two. I didnt have many of myself, because it was me who took the photos, but today i received many nice pictures with me also. Post them in a coupple of hours. The gentleman is having his tail wrapped round with a silk ribbon. It was used many times by military people, it was easyer to handle, and more hygienic two. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver > The setting is just aweson. It looks like so much fun....if you get time, > could you link the pictures to their larger form? There are some details > that would be fun to look at. Speaking of which what is on the man's > pony-tail in the picture: last column, second row. Is it wrapped in > ribbon? Is this something they would have done? > > Thanks, for sharing. > Sg > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> I was so fortunate, to get an invitation for a lovely winter gathering at >> Reine des Centfeuilles and her family. >> The gathering was from friday evening, til sunday noon. >> It was lovely to meet some of the Lumieres german members. >> The generousity of Maurita her family is endless, and i was guest in >> their house all 3 days. Highlight of it all was my first sleap in a real >> alcove. Mauritia and Kim had made everything so lovely, and their cooking >> was deliscious. >> Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. >> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm >> I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I got >> many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute to >> them all. >> >> Christian Ludvig de Vollanges.......... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 10:14:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26FEDRK014964 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:14:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26FEG45026905; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:14:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26FDaLj015884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:13:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26FDWaL025837; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:13:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26FDRHq025679 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.144.576fee83 (15974) for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:13:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID101-3e66440c518a2ba; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:13:14 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c63fb2$4acc7640$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[h-cost]_soir=E9_d=B4hiver?= Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:13:12 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:14:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C51C8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k26FEDRK014964 Status: RO Thanks for sharing your beautiful weekend. History comes to life when people dress for the occasion. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 9:11 AM, WickedFrau wrote: > The setting is just aweson. It looks like so much fun....if you get > time, could you link the pictures to their larger form? There are > some details that would be fun to look at. Speaking of which what is > on the man's pony-tail in the picture: last column, second row. Is it > wrapped in ribbon? Is this something they would have done? > > Thanks, for sharing. > Sg > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> I was so fortunate, to get an invitation for a lovely winter >> gathering at Reine des Centfeuilles and her family. >> The gathering was from friday evening, til sunday noon. >> It was lovely to meet some of the Lumieres german members. >> The generousity of Maurita her family is endless, and i was guest in >> their house all 3 days. Highlight of it all was my first sleap in a >> real alcove. Mauritia and Kim had made everything so lovely, and >> their cooking was deliscious. >> Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. >> http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm >> I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I >> got many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless >> gratitute to them all. >> >> Christian Ludvig de Vollanges.......... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 11:42:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26GgOTr018151 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:42:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26GgQdA001328; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:42:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Gfhfu042751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:41:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GfOSH011112; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:41:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26GfIKO010801 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 75033 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 16:41:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bqrpS/tfyE+a0U49IKu03kOJEjuJraTVzJM06AJd2I+eP58EamCwdfJZsdaMQ2v9oXqaZ5ephVZ49dQ8885ort2Pol6sV0V656cqRyvFpGB5LjPwV7Wb0RV9WL0qpmGekbDq6j2pWP10vskm4huS/8kMg1jMHSyMtAYecTKaagE= ; Message-ID: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:41:02 PST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:41:02 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: "h-costume@indra.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:42:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C6672.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles of riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it close to list topic). Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range of interests that most creative people share to one degree or another. For my part... horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, good movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other artistically creative endeavors such as panting or some type of crafting, etc. And of course, the list always exceeds the amount of time available to pursue said interests. Just a little generalizing. ;-) Annette M --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 11:56:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Gu1kX018657 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:56:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Gu3Ng008154; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:56:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26GtiLZ045553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:55:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GtclM026447; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:55:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.148]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26GtYu8026202 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:55:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 14244 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 16:55:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GJTmJQKZvEjjHbWAwxbaBCYVZEvOP1NATCVCFRbxkJ76ouF/plSvUE+T2NaDz0Iv97puPc7v1NkTdAo84uFuAPzDF3ksplwwAOTz55+i1GSqoapFexSTO+0DlQu9Dyf9SDJVAGS4EbdtA0+61kb6KM7CZq8mpqfqpj8xMFxrsQo= ; Message-ID: <20060306165529.14242.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:55:28 PST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:55:28 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603061413.k26ECuit073654@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 222 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:56:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C69A3.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you for all the great responses! Now I know I can create some nice things that are going to be easy and a lot less expensive to care for. Might try washing that natural colored linen blouse too. The other direction this took reminds me of how I ruined a "dry clean only" jacket that was one of my favorites by following label directions. The fabric was fine - it was the lining material that shouldn't have been dry cleaned. It 'melted' and adhered to the fabric as it shrunk, creating a puckered and wrinkled affect that ruined the jacket. And aren't dry cleaners supposed to read labels. I know people aren't infallible, but the label on a skirt said clearly - dry clean only DO NOT PRESS - it came back fine many times, but the last time it got pressed, and a lovely skirt got turned into a limp and unattractive rag. It was just one incident however, and they are the best cleaners around. Annette M Message: 7 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 06:10:12 -0600 From: Leah L Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > have to > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. >For *most* garments, > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > label the > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > poor > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > spend > very little money researching other cleaning methods. I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To Be Held Responsible". Leah ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:32:57 -0500 From: "Lloyd Mitchell" Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <000f01c64122$7c926420$935083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to survive the cleaning. Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) ads when all the new fibers began to come out in the 1950s? Some of the American labels such as Jonathan Logan took great pride that you could depend on their products not to shrink or misshape in the wearing (and caring) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leah L Watts" To: Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > > have to > > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. > > Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think > Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for > inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently > in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the > company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because > they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. > > >For *most* garments, > > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > > label the > > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > > poor > > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > > spend > > very little money researching other cleaning methods. > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > Be Held Responsible". > > Leah > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:11:04 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) To: Historical Costume Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi-- I was a designer / patternmaker and technical designer in the garment industry for 24 years. Do not blame the manufacturer (the people who actually sew the garment) for the wording of care labels. Very often the people who make the garment follow what is demanded by the Customer (the people who order the garment from the manufacturer: Disney,. Walmart, Sears etc.) The customer gives the manufacturer a manual that gives phrases and the care label must be taken from that. The Federal Government also prevents the manufacturer from doing "preventative care labling": unless you know that a certain fabric will react by doing something (eg: pouring chlorine bleach on a swimwear fabric) you cannot say "do not bleach". The problem with this is that sometimes the customer insists on going the extra step in stupidity-- over the advice of the manufacturer. I once had an on-going agrument with Nordstroms about using non-chlorine bleach on a chiild's swimsuit. I lost. They insisted that the label say "non-chlorine bleach as needed". The fabric was done no favors with that! Don't blame the manufacturer, blame the people who place the order with the manufacturer. We have our own share of frustrations. (Don't get me started on off-shore manufacturing...) Yours- Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to survive the cleaning. Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) === message truncated === --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 13:03:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26I3M9Y020826 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:03:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26I3OTG006824; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:03:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Hvdb4056328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:02:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GxlHp030680; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:59:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GxUJG030290 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.a0.3871e84c (2612) for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:59:17 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:59:17 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 222 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:03:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C796C.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/6/2006 11:57:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kahlara@yahoo.com writes: The other direction this took reminds me of how I ruined a "dry clean only" jacket that was one of my favorites by following label directions. The fabric was fine - it was the lining material that shouldn't have been dry cleaned. It 'melted' and adhered to the fabric as it shrunk, creating a puckered and wrinkled affect that ruined the jacket. And aren't dry cleaners supposed to read labels. I know people aren't infallible, but the label on a skirt said clearly - dry clean only DO NOT PRESS - it came back fine many times, but the last time it got pressed, and a lovely skirt got turned into a limp and unattractive rag. It was just one incident however, and they are the best cleaners around. If you are in the US, and your cleaner is a member of the Fabricare Institute, you can have them mediate if they indeed failed to follow the label directions. If the manufacturer mis-labeled the garment, your beef is with them. Ann Wass Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 13:25:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26IPid6021540 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:25:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26IPl0q016538; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:25:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26IPGVT060466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:25:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26IP5Wk018745; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26IOrTU018534 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:24:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AE680360; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:24:40 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.157 ([209.131.80.157] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 6 Mar 2006 13:24:37 -0500 Message-ID: <005901c6414b$8b48e240$9d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:26:52 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:25:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C7EAB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This is what I understood back in the '50s. The ads about 'non-shrinking/misshaping were placed by the WGWU, as you can still find their label in older garments. That was their hallmark about buying quality fabric. It seems that when Fashion (the customer/business ordering) took prescidence on the label, that quality began to slip. Not just in the fabric...but when outsourcing to save a union wage buck was becoming the norm...and the result is in one time wearing garments. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "monica spence" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 9:11 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > Hi-- > I was a designer / patternmaker and technical designer in the garment > industry for 24 years. Do not blame the manufacturer (the people who > actually sew the garment) for the wording of care labels. Very often the > people who make the garment follow what is demanded by the Customer (the > people who order the garment from the manufacturer: Disney,. Walmart, Sears > etc.) The customer gives the manufacturer a manual that gives phrases and > the care label must be taken from that. The Federal Government also prevents > the manufacturer from doing "preventative care labling": unless you know > that a certain fabric will react by doing something (eg: pouring chlorine > bleach on a swimwear fabric) you cannot say "do not bleach". The problem > with this is that sometimes the customer insists on going the extra step in > stupidity-- over the advice of the manufacturer. I once had an on-going > agrument with Nordstroms about using non-chlorine bleach on a chiild's > swimsuit. I lost. They insisted that the label say "non-chlorine bleach as > needed". The fabric was done no favors with that! > > Don't blame the manufacturer, blame the people who place the order with the > manufacturer. We have our own share of frustrations. (Don't get me started > on off-shore manufacturing...) > > Yours- > Monica Spence > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:33 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > > That has certainly been my take on it for years! The so called care label > puts the blame on the owner or outside establishment if the garment fails to > survive the cleaning. > > Besides the "Talon (zipper) ads, remember the Union Label (buy American!) > ads when all the new fibers began to come out in the 1950s? Some of the > American labels such as Jonathan Logan took great pride that you could > depend on their products not to shrink or misshape in the wearing (and > caring) > > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Leah L Watts" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:10 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > > > > > One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing > > > manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they > > > have to > > > test the garment in what ever method they recommend. > > > > Not that all manufacturer's actually _test_ the garments ... I think > > Tommy Hilfiger still holds the record for biggest fine from the FTC for > > inaccurate care labels. There's a fashion boutique that opened recently > > in Omaha that is already notorious among the local dry cleaners; the > > company I work for has told everyone to refuse garments from them because > > they cannot be dry cleaned regardless of the care tag. > > > > >For *most* garments, > > > regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to > > > label the > > > garment "Dry Clean Only". This way they are not responsible for the > > > poor > > > results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to > > > spend > > > very little money researching other cleaning methods. > > > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > > Be Held Responsible". > > > > Leah > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 13:48:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Im4pw022219 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:48:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Im7e0026181; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:48:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Ilftg063359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:47:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26IleiW038373; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:47:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26Ilaol038218 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:47:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1ff.11eb1f0c (15888) for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:47:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID83-3e10440c83bf1c4; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:47:28 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <6c257d3930e3b8d781043322de93d02f@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:47:26 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:48:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C83E7.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k26Im4pw022219 Status: RO Annette and others- Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse specific" questions. Is it Ok to post with the type of Subject line as in this post to alert the rest of you that it may not be of interest to the rest of the group? I'd certainly like to make my riding outfits as authentic looking as possible given the fabrics and the circumstances we are faced with today. (No groom to take our horse after we ride or take complete care of our horse while we are getting ready to ride or while we socialize after riding. Ahhh... the good old days! But... I would have been in the peasant class, as I am in real life!) Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem > to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as > the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. > > I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and > riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles > of riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it > close to list topic). > > Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range of > interests that most creative people share to one degree or another. > For my part... > > horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, good > movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other artistically > creative endeavors such as panting or some type of crafting, etc. And > of course, the list always exceeds the amount of time available to > pursue said interests. > > Just a little generalizing. ;-) > > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Brings words and photos together (easily) with > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 14:05:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26J50kI022641 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:05:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26J53jV000561; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:05:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26J4awR069830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:04:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26J4NL1055775; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:04:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26J4IYg055579 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:04:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BCA3A3D32 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:04:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440C87E1.6090209@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:05:05 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:05:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C87DF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Leah L Watts wrote: > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > Be Held Responsible". I picked up a gorgeous fully beaded and sequinned evening gown at a local thrift shop with just such a tag. It reeked of "dancing all night in a smoky club" but for $4 I took a chance. Laid it in a tub of cold water with mild soap and just kind of swished it gently and it came out beautifully. I'm all ready for the palace ball, I just need my glass slippers and the invitation from the prince.... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 14:24:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26JOgWR023298 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:24:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26JOjJ6008982; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:24:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26JNB77077537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:23:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26JNA2i072194; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:23:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26JN2X3072045 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:23:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NRcXHzVhLzGJz532XQqEsQRb6+YOm9ScwngnxbGt4g3FV2ufNr8POr54VseKw61b; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.230.81.216] (helo=camelot01) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGL56-00036I-3d for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:09:20 -0500 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:09:35 -0600 Organization: Camelot Horse Center Message-ID: <000f01c64151$82ba6d50$ee1be604@camelot01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcZBTpkwlplGe3bnRqyNAnk/amxoFgAALGQQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-Reply-To: <6c257d3930e3b8d781043322de93d02f@aol.com> X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120c7da288446c34911d20a2a183fe9724ab908f1eb8c6dcd58350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.81.216 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:24:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C8C7D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO -----Original Message----- Annette and others- Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? Personally, I am right there with you on the costuming for riders and horses. I own a horse farm that does classical riding (Dressage, Combined Training, Jumpers) but, I do SCA and other historical costuming as well. I compete on horseback in the SCA with my full Elizabethan gowns, and have made Baroque riding attire for other rider's costuming classes. I have decided that I HAVE to have a riding gown like the one in the movie "Brotherhood of the Wolf". I do not know where I am going to wear it but, if I have to, I will sponsor a party or event at my own farm in order to wear it. I already have a gorgeous saddle---just need a beautiful period bridle for my big grey warmblood. Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 15:28:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26KSKCa025076 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:28:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26KSMY1005615; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:28:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26KRTGj005372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:27:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26KRNf5028846; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:27:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26KRIwe028784 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:27:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55c7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.199]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E3CCBA50080 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:27:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c6415c$6d102890$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:27:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?soir=E9e_d=B4hiver_more_pictures?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:28:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440C9B66.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Shameless of me, i uploaded the first clickable pictures with the ones of myself. Its so seldom i had any pictures of me wearing the blue suit, and also my humble mundane. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver3.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 17:16:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MGKBn031128 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:16:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MGMc9019914; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:16:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26MFiKA030788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:15:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MFaPf029660; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:15:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MFV5X029496 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:15:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E66EEA1F78 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:15:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440CB4BC.7000407@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:16:28 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:16:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CB4B6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I was wondering who all from the list was thinking of going. Or who would be lecturing there. Anyone? I notice that there's still next to no info available on the website, just a couple months out now, and I was wondering if I should be worried. Or do these things always pull themselves together at the last minute? I can already find thorough information on other events much later in the summer and I'm getting concerned because I have no idea what to expect from CostumeCon. I'm thinking I ought to reserve a hotel room pretty soon, if I'm going. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 17:42:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MgYtl000683 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:42:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26Mgamc028354; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:42:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26MgG9c034234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:42:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MgEIX053785; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:42:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26Mg8ND053654 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:42:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 69511 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 22:42:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BnTEtHGYYay2KD9wRBYWZj2ePvIKkY2BuNofrTf1x9/BK/j+pbqKyNSCEQcFLSBxQpWScL3qH5c5yV/qKBT3TJSzOrbFbtctsuAZZKZu32o/CMxPKla2HykSNOAbMQd3C0wlicnaX4uOwzLF7kWTpbn5Jpd+VQJEfeAdP8Jnp+Y= ; Message-ID: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [87.244.70.182] by web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:42:03 GMT Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:42:03 +0000 (GMT) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6c257d3930e3b8d781043322de93d02f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:42:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CBADC.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Susan Data-Samtak wrote: Annette and others- Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse specific" questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in the peasant class, as I am in real life!) Susan snip On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem > to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as > the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. > > I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and > riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> > Just a little generalizing. ;-) COMMENT Annette, Susan, and others - according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and fewer still own their own horses. Presumeably the percentage of "riders" against "pedestrians" is much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu & Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, &c, &c. This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who don't "ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point and in which Kingdoms did it become "immodest" and frowned-upon for women to ride astride? I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning much new information. Julian, in Old Jersey --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 17:46:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MkV1p001394 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:46:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26MkYYB029582; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:46:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26MkHXh034944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MkHR3057805; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26MkDTg057716 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:46:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15888 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:17:19 -0600 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:17:17 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon In-Reply-To: <440CB4BC.7000407@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:46:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CBBCA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, Dawn wrote: > I was wondering who all from the list was thinking of going. Or who > would be lecturing there. Anyone? Alas, not me this year. It's within driving distance, but bad timing. > I notice that there's still next to no info available on the website, > just a couple months out now, and I was wondering if I should be > worried. Or do these things always pull themselves together at the > last minute? I can already find thorough information on other events > much later in the summer and I'm getting concerned because I have no > idea what to expect from CostumeCon. I'm thinking I ought to reserve a > hotel room pretty soon, if I'm going. You might want to join the International Costumers Guild's discussion group at yahoogroups; I bet you can find answers there, or at least the people there can tell you whether there's a better website somewhere. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ICG-D/ --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 18:08:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26N8FAP002263 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:08:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26N8I52003680; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:08:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26N7t62037906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:07:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26N7rVo078296; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:07:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52111.mail.yahoo.com (web52111.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.114]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k26N7okI078130 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:07:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 31657 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 23:07:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PIOtQJxtT6sIe0Wa2/CZlK48gL7615kyizTl5w9P09X67k/G+SV4svdxmJEpMpVA5aVcK1pCw5lSWPSuDEjWl4otuWfGP29Hcj4qdUFJN2yeUSShENIrJmGHlRqAGqqwenJji//xOQBhaARfxAICmSpYHHA4cQBfddX2J/UI4s8= ; Message-ID: <20060306230728.31655.qmail@web52111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:07:28 EST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:07:28 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Maternity corsets - trivia X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:08:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CC0E2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I know I had seen some around. I tripped on this page: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maternity_corset Mostly later eras from where I was asking about originally, but a neat selection of how it was handled. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 18:29:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26NTI1o002878 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:29:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k26NTLHU010272; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:29:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26NSQQA041384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:28:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26NSMEs097177; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:28:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26NSHjT096991 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:28:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.25.7246b023 (16110) for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:27:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID122-3eee440cc573d0; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:27:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:27:46 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:29:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CC5D1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k26NTI1o002878 Status: RO From what I've been able to find out: he short version of Astride vs Aside: WOMEN rode any way they could-if they were able to get a horse to ride. They either walked or maybe were able to catch a ride in a wagon. LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the horse's left side. (Did I make this perfectly unclear?) Like sitting in a chair. Others rode sideways behind a man. Some even had a board to place their feet on. Often the horse was led by a footman, controlling the horse. It was thought that ladies couldn't control a large beast like a horse. Women also rode "palfreys"- gaited horses, also called "ambling" horses. Supposedly, the Paso Fino Breed, (my horse is a PF) has the palfrey in its background. I've also heard that "women's legs aren't strong enough to control a horse" if riding astride. Ironically, I've heard that women have stronger thighs, and have better muscle shape TO control a horse if ridden astride. Go figure! I ride aside, astride and with no saddle at all. Bareback is the most comfortable for the horse and for me. My Mac's back is round and padded with that smooth gait- can't beat it! Saddle or not. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 5:42 PM, julian wilson wrote: > Susan Data-Samtak wrote: > Annette and others- > > Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? > I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the > big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse > specific" questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in > the peasant class, as I am in real life!) > > Susan > > snip > On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > >> Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem >> to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as >> the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >> >> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >> riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> >> Just a little generalizing. ;-) COMMENT > Annette, Susan, and others - > according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of > the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and > fewer still own their own horses. > Presumeably the percentage of "riders" against "pedestrians" is > much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - > Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, > Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu & > Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, &c, &c. > > This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period > covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the > population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also > for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period > Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. > There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of > bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem > likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who > don't "ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... > The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own > fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims > riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by > moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women > rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call > for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as > to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point > and in which Kingdoms did it become "immodest" and frowned-upon for > women to ride astride? > I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning > much new information. > Julian, > in Old Jersey > > > > > > --------------------------------- > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new > Yahoo! Security Centre. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 20:10:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k271AluY006323 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:10:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k271AoHd007924; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:10:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k271AOwR055560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:10:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k271AI2e087850; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3b.socket.net [216.106.88.186]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k271AE6G087739 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:10:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E4AA637035 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:10:08 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:10:19 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20060306014800.C1BC46F3@resin05.mta.everyone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k271AE6G087739 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:10:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CDD9A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >From the sound of the story, an Alexanderian cap is a dowager's cap. What I have been told of dowager's caps (take this with a cup o' salt) is that they are similar to the Whistler's mother cap but slightly different and fancier (lacey?). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 20:47:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k271l7X1007700 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:47:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k271lAFO017868; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:47:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k271ko18060556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k271kgtG017145; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:46:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k271kZlA016995 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [66.43.209.43] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 904616585 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:46:34 -0600 Message-ID: <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:47:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:47:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CE61E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the horse's left side. ------------------------- I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I can see where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, as it would be a little like driving a car from the backseat. This position would put the woman more in the class of cargo, rather than "riding". It would be a form of transportation similar to sitting in a wagon, I'm sure. Which is not the same at all as riding side-saddle. I can't speak to specific time periods but I know I have read descriptions of women wearing breeches or jodhpurs under a "false" skirt that looked and functioned like a skirt when walking, but had a buttoned panel associated with function under saddle. Also, with the volume of skirts and the layers under the skirts, I can't see where modesty would be a problem when riding sidesaddle. The position is similar sitting on a barstool with the right leg hooked on a high rung, and the left foot very close to the floor. Mounting the horse in public would probably take a *lot* of private practice and a very steady horse, but I'm sure it could be accomplished w/o displaying much more than some inner hem. When horses were primary modes of transportation, mounting blocks were available just about everywhere and that would help a lot! I would join an equestrian clothing group! Denise _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 21:19:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k272JphO009072 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:19:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k272Jr15027386; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:19:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k272ILaw065357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:18:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k272IHHN046418; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:18:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k272IDcs046358 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:18:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC469890770; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 02:13:26 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:18:16 -0800 Message-ID: <002301c6418d$65610890$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k272IDcs046358 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:19:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CEDC9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >From my reading, I've come across the term "pillion", which I always understood to mean behind the "main" rider, but never knew if it meant sideways or astride. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Susan Data-Samtak Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:28 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" From what I've been able to find out: he short version of Astride vs Aside: WOMEN rode any way they could-if they were able to get a horse to ride. They either walked or maybe were able to catch a ride in a wagon. LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the horse's left side. (Did I make this perfectly unclear?) Like sitting in a chair. Others rode sideways behind a man. Some even had a board to place their feet on. Often the horse was led by a footman, controlling the horse. It was thought that ladies couldn't control a large beast like a horse. Women also rode "palfreys"- gaited horses, also called "ambling" horses. Supposedly, the Paso Fino Breed, (my horse is a PF) has the palfrey in its background. I've also heard that "women's legs aren't strong enough to control a horse" if riding astride. Ironically, I've heard that women have stronger thighs, and have better muscle shape TO control a horse if ridden astride. Go figure! I ride aside, astride and with no saddle at all. Bareback is the most comfortable for the horse and for me. My Mac's back is round and padded with that smooth gait- can't beat it! Saddle or not. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 5:42 PM, julian wilson wrote: > Susan Data-Samtak wrote: > Annette and others- > > Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? > I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the > big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse > specific" questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in the > peasant class, as I am in real life!) > > Susan > > snip > On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > >> Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations >> seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as >> well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >> >> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >> riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> Just a little >> generalizing. ;-) COMMENT > Annette, Susan, and others - > according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of > the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and > fewer still own their own horses. > Presumeably the percentage of "riders" against "pedestrians" is > much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - > Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, > Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu & > Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, &c, &c. > > This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period > covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the > population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also > for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period > Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. > There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of > bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem > likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who > don't "ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... > The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own > fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims > riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by > moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women > rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call > for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as > to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point > and in which Kingdoms did it become "immodest" and frowned-upon for > women to ride astride? > I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning > much new information. > Julian, > in Old Jersey > > > > > > --------------------------------- > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new > Yahoo! Security Centre. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 22:34:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k273YRX6011136 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:34:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k273YMQQ016576; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:34:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k273WXhK074457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:32:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273WSqM003968; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273WNc7003906 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:32:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=slLYtYhYU+dBk/WFy0xgt7sIwL+9rxOeaYdXX1w0LKNyQHU7Xi2ziRqhZdCCJbj/; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.125.98.127] (helo=[172.16.1.11]) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGSvu-0005cj-QX for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:32:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@igc.org@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007f01c64073$922dce50$6601a8c0@PYC64> References: <007f01c64073$922dce50$6601a8c0@PYC64> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:20:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22ca44108260c305c17d5f12cb6dee14ceb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.125.98.127 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:34:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440CFF3E.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 10:40 AM -0600 3/5/06, Betsy Marshall wrote: >My information is that dry cleaning helps preserve the fabric treatments >used by the manufacturer- either fabric or clothing processes; so fabric of >wool, linen, silk or combinations thereof, _can_ be washed, just be prepared >for the size/hand/texture to change. (Personally I toss it all in the washer >on cold and let the chips, er, scraps fall where they may.) My philosophy is to give the finished garment a cleaning treatment that's one step gentler than the washing I gave the fabric before I cut it out. I pretty much machine wash all yardage as soon as I get it home and the edges zigzagged. This has worked a lot better for some things than others. I've not had any problems with linen or silk, but I've learned to be more careful about wool, especially about tumble drying it. I had a wool Elizabethan gown (and I can now boast that it was custom-made for me by Margo -- yes, THAT Margo, of Margo's patterns ) and she washed my wool yardage on hot, _three_ times before she cut it out. And I washed it on cold and dried it on barely lukewarm, and it DID shrink, almost three inches in length after half a dozen washings. :( -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 6 22:55:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k273tfV6011735 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:55:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k273tivh022505; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:55:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k273tSdC076900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:55:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273tQVw021042; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273tNbl020987 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:55:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FGTI92H2P-000204; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:55:22 -0500 Message-ID: <014f01c6419a$f9a580a0$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:55:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:55:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D0440.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k273tfV6011735 Status: RO I am always looking for funny color names. OPI has some 2006 nail polish colors names! Check these out: Reds: *** I'm Not Really a Waitress *** Nice Color, Eh? *** O'Hare & Nails Look Great! *** SoHo Nice to Meet You *** You Rock-apulco Red *** My Chihuahua Bites! (my favorite) To view all their color names go to http://www.opi.com/ Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 03:02:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2782vOs029979 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 03:02:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27830kM022028; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 03:03:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2782VRi002213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:02:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2782QEd094407; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:02:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2782J6Y094222 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:02:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.192]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060307080212.HBJE170.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:02:12 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.183.2]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060307080212.MSMH14226.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:02:12 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.0/275]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:02:21 +1300 Message-ID: <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:02:19 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 03:03:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D3E34.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I haven't had my last several emails I posted to the list, and a few before that were delayed by several days, not just a few hours. I was wondering if others are having the same issue. Then I can narrow down where the problem might be. I may just be getting the mail delayed to me, I have no idea when they are getting to other people. I noticed I had a warning about messages bouncing a while back on some list and I think it was this one (which is mad as I have had constant uptime with this email address and if I'm away will change to digest mode.) Anyway, if this does go through (9pm Tuesday March 7 NZ time which is +12 hours GMT) I have recently updated my website with costumes I haven't linked from my main page before. Latest projects are: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/phantom/wishing.htm Replica of the Blue Dress from the Aussie productions of Phantom of the Opera. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/dracula/2mina.htm Red dress from the 1992 movie of Dracula (I also put up a subsection for other people's recreations.) http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm Bruyn inspired gown from the Cleves/Cologne region. I have finally settled on a sort of colour scheme;) I'm also working on another fully pleated skirt from the 1880s but have yet to decide on the style of bodice. I have lots of fabric for a few interchangeble styles actually. Twiddling my fingers til my posts show up.. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 6/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:10:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DALCL028786 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:10:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DAOr0012670; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:10:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27D9gww058448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:09:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27D9cx2013667; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:09:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k273S3wB000500 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:28:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fNIiWbQ/NuoxVK1FJtdHszBYZj3+fYC3eOLKdx4mDAHbc5mSbdu+fVKv1xSKWuZu; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.230.93.103] (helo=camelot01) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGSrh-00050B-Ba for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:28:03 -0500 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:28:18 -0600 Organization: Camelot Horse Center Message-ID: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcZBlw9sJ32R47dhQPu6h3WTaU7KEA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120a8d4a2faead544eea213da6ae0316c1eddbc2fbdd75cb04f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.93.103 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:10:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D8640.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I am going to attempt to put in short version a very long subject------First of all, the Victorian idea of modesty is just that---Victorian. Most periods before this time frame did not have the "modesty" that we refer to and women (and Ladies) that rode and controlled their own horse would ride astride. Women that were traveling but, did not "Ride" would travel by Pillion saddle. This is a saddle that sits the rider totally side ways on the horse with a platform under the feet. There are numerous references, paintings, and tapestries that depict this style of travel for women. When traveling like this, there is usually a groom to lead and control the horse that the woman is on top of. By the 16 th century, Catherine de Medici began to ride "Side-Saddle" for hunting. She actually took her husband's hunting saddle and threw her leg over the front horn. By doing this, she was actually still facing forward while both legs were on the same side. Elizabeth I copied her style and also rode "side-saddle". There is what is considered one of Elizabeth I 's side saddles in one of the London museums. Although considered quite an accomplished rider and well verse in hunting, when doing a parade or any public display, Queen Elizabeth I was normally being led to insure nothing could happen to endanger her. There are also accounts of Queen Elizabeth I wearing her Farthingale and that they were so large as to dwarf the mount she was riding. There are numerous portraits of Ladies and Queens riding astride through the 17 th century. It is not until the Victorian time frame that it becomes extremely improper for a Lady to ride astride. Why ride side saddle? Clothes. One can wear a skirt with a much smaller circumference if they are riding side saddle. To make a skirt that looks good and covers the rider's leg when riding astride takes a minimum of 7 yards. I can make a side saddle skirt in 4 yards. In case no one can tell----I find the history of the side saddle fascinating and I also ride side-saddle. I also used to give jumping demos side-saddle and I ride the SCA Equestrian games side saddle. I have run rings, hit quintains, etc. all in my side saddle and wearing my full Elizabethan gowns (and won). I currently own two modern jumping side saddles and one 1846 antique western side saddle that I bought from the family it was originally made for. Sorry----my post got longer than I anticipated, Diane _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:11:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DB5ue028816 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:11:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DB8B6018902; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:11:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DAuKB058607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:10:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DAuaY014685; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:10:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k275Bd0e076623 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:11:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060307051133.ZCGA6239.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:11:33 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060307051132.BGNP1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:11:32 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.0/275]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:11:41 +1300 Message-ID: <008e01c641a5$9e8e6820$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:11:37 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:11:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D866C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > sideways with their back parallel to > the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the > horse's left side. > I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I can see > where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, as it would be > a little like driving a car from the backseat. This position would put the > woman more in the class of cargo, rather than "riding". It would be a form > of transportation similar to sitting in a wagon, I'm sure. I have some images from 16thC woodcuts, and I think the tapestry of Maximilian shows Maria of Hungary riding like this (though the view is from the back so it's a bit hard to tell.) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg Sorry I don't have the folder public, so if the links are broken try this: http://photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ Then pasting the file names individually: ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg Certainly a less than comfortable ride if you want to face forward! michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 6/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:11:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DBwdN028851 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:11:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DC1DW017557; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:12:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DBPKB058667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DBP97015046; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k275MWns084231 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:22:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2e0.3761d9e (16109) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:22:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed440d188f157; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 00:22:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <002301c6418d$65610890$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <002301c6418d$65610890$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Message-Id: <3d2cb68025b67a00970094378e579a7d@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:22:22 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:12:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D86A1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27DBwdN028851 Status: RO Pillion was sitting sideways on a cushion of some type behind the man, who was in control of the horse. If a Lady were led, she could be sitting sideways with a backrest and a footboard (planchette) for her feet to rest on. No stirrup (s). Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 9:18 PM, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: >> From my reading, I've come across the term "pillion", which I always > understood to mean behind the "main" rider, but never knew if it meant > sideways or astride. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > Behalf Of Susan Data-Samtak > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:28 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > > > From what I've been able to find out: he short version of Astride vs > Aside: > > WOMEN rode any way they could-if they were able to get a horse to ride. > They either walked or maybe were able to catch a ride in a wagon. > > LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept > their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of > females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to > the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the > horse's left side. (Did I make this perfectly unclear?) Like sitting in > a chair. Others rode sideways behind a man. Some even had a board to > place their feet on. Often the horse was led by a footman, controlling > the horse. It was thought that ladies couldn't control a large beast > like a horse. > > Women also rode "palfreys"- gaited horses, also called "ambling" > horses. Supposedly, the Paso Fino Breed, (my horse is a PF) has the > palfrey in its background. > > I've also heard that "women's legs aren't strong enough to control a > horse" if riding astride. Ironically, I've heard that women have > stronger thighs, and have better muscle shape TO control a horse if > ridden astride. Go figure! > > I ride aside, astride and with no saddle at all. Bareback is the most > comfortable for the horse and for me. My Mac's back is round and > padded with that smooth gait- can't beat it! Saddle or not. > > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too > fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" > by > Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 6, 2006, at 5:42 PM, julian wilson wrote: > >> Susan Data-Samtak wrote: >> Annette and others- >> >> Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? >> I'd hate to not get feedback from all the historical costumers on the >> big list, but I don't want to annoy the rest of you with "horse >> specific" questions. Much snippage ! But... I would have been in the >> peasant class, as I am in real life!) >> >> Susan >> >> snip >> On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: >> >>> Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations >>> seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as >>> well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >>> >>> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >>> riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> Just a little >>> generalizing. ;-) COMMENT >> Annette, Susan, and others - >> according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of >> the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and >> fewer still own their own horses. >> Presumeably the percentage of "riders" against "pedestrians" is >> much the same in most other re-enactment groups, large and small - >> Roman, Dark Ages, medieval, English Civil War, Frederick the Great, >> Marlborough, 1776, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, US Civil War, Zulu & >> Ashanti Wars, and Anglo-Boer War, &c, &c. >> >> This is a huge percentage difference from the medieval period >> covered by the SCA when one would suppose that the majority of the >> population above Freedman-Status could ride, - and of course true also >> for those of the rest of us interested in any other Period >> Re-enactment up to and including about 1914 Gregorian. >> There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of >> bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem >> likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who >> don't "ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... >> The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own >> fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims >> riding astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by >> moderns, flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women >> rode fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Did this call >> for divided skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as >> to be able to ride astride yet keep their modesty? At what Time point >> and in which Kingdoms did it become "immodest" and frowned-upon for >> women to ride astride? >> I would support such a subgroup, and kibitz in the hope of learning >> much new information. >> Julian, >> in Old Jersey >> >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new >> Yahoo! Security Centre. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:17:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DHgrI029108 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:17:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DHjOF015260; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:17:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DBm8Q058701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DBm8E015412; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:11:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k275juK6099842 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:45:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.273.6e9fdc6 (16100) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:45:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID114-3ee4440d1e0a297; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 00:45:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> Message-Id: <53a0929df06dbb16543d77be6af91aff@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 00:45:46 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:17:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D87F9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27DHgrI029108 Status: RO Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:47 PM, Land of Oz wrote: > LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept > their legs together for propriety. I know there are pictures of > females riding astride as well as > > sideways with their back parallel to > the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the > horse's left side. > ------------------------- > > I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I > can see where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, > as it would be a little like driving a car from the backseat. This > position would put the woman more in the class of cargo, rather than > "riding". It would be a form of transportation similar to sitting in a > wagon, I'm sure. Exactly. A Lady wasn't "able" to do anything without a man to help. As far as a link- anyone with medieval knowledge have a sketch showing this? > > Which is not the same at all as riding side-saddle. I can't speak to > specific time periods but I know I have read descriptions of women > wearing breeches or jodhpurs under a "false" skirt that looked and > functioned like a skirt when walking, but had a buttoned panel > associated with function under saddle. The Safety Apron was invented over a century ago. I have seen a garment that is a "transition" from full skirt to the modern (Safety) apron. The modern apron is only long enough to cover your backside while seated in the sidesaddle. The "skirt" part is shaped with a dart or curved seam to accommodate the upraised knee around the upper pommel. The rest of the skirt is long, to just reveal the ankle, when on horseback. When dismounted, the rider buttons the long skirt up, sweeping it around her butt, then buttoning it on the right side. this effectively pulls the excess fabric from where it is not necessary to where it is definitely necessary, on foot. All bases are covered. > > Also, with the volume of skirts and the layers under the skirts, I > can't see where modesty would be a problem when riding sidesaddle. > The position is similar sitting on a barstool with the right leg > hooked on a high rung, and the left foot very close to the floor. > Mounting the horse in public would probably take a *lot* of private > practice and a very steady horse, but I'm sure it could be > accomplished w/o displaying much more than some inner hem. When horses > were primary modes of transportation, mounting blocks were available > just about everywhere and that would help a lot! The "propriety point" is that a LADY did not spread her legs apart. LADIES had grooms and footmen who did "everything" for them, except ride! A LADY merely appeared and mounted. Rode, then dismounted. As I understand it, "street clothing" were used for riding until around the 18th century. I know that riding trowsers could be a part of a Victorian habit. At this time, the skirt volume was becoming streamlined. The riding habit is very plain and severe in style. It is often referred to as "mannish". Later, the safety apron evolved. Here is a web site that shows some of the changes over time. http://www.hoosierladiesaside.com/habits.html also http://www.victorianladiesaside.com/gallery/ Mostly US Civil War, North, South and Civilian impressions. As I mentioned, we make the clothing to reflect the times but we are eminently aware that this Is the 21st Century. Safety first when riding sidesaddle. We usually don't have a groom to do all the work associated with "horsekeeping". We must change from LADY to WOMAN, from upper class to common person- in a flash- then back, again. > > I would join an equestrian clothing group! > Denise > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:35:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DZaDA029984 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:35:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DZdg7022064; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:35:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DY5HC061050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:34:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DY3Kl032661; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:34:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DY15i032508 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:34:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id ABB80330; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:33:44 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.141 ([209.131.80.141] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 7 Mar 2006 08:33:41 -0500 Message-ID: <004301c641ec$11410940$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> <440C87E1.6090209@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:35:56 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:35:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D8C2B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ain't modern fabrics a wonder? Early in my collecting career, I spent days mending and shoring up of a fragile georgette to get it to a wearable state (plainly rescued from the burn barrel). it was a wonderful pale peach color ornamented with tiny silver beads and sequins. When I had done all I could to give it one more outing I thought I would just dip it in the sink to freshen it. Ten minutes later I returned to rinse it and all that remained of the lovely design was the beads. (No one had yet told me that sequins from just about before WW2 were made of gelatin! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) > Leah L Watts wrote: > > > > > I've always suspected "Do Not Wash, Do Not Dry Clean, Spot Clean Only" > > was a synonym for "We Couldn't Be Bothered To Test This But Don't Want To > > Be Held Responsible". > > I picked up a gorgeous fully beaded and sequinned evening gown at a > local thrift shop with just such a tag. It reeked of "dancing all night > in a smoky club" but for $4 I took a chance. Laid it in a tub of cold > water with mild soap and just kind of swished it gently and it came out > beautifully. > > I'm all ready for the palace ball, I just need my glass slippers and the > invitation from the prince.... > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:52:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Dqexb030638 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:52:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Dqhd4029799; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:52:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27Dpwt9063225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:51:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DptoH047678; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:51:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27Dpq1m047610 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.173.237.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.173.237]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGcbK-0004A8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:51:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <48C28618-ADE2-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:57:15 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:52:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D902B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I wanted to take a look at these costumes, but my server can't seem to find your server! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Mar 7, 2006, at 3:02 AM, michaela wrote: > I haven't had my last several emails I posted to the list, and a few > before > that were delayed by several days, not just a few hours. I was > wondering if > others are having the same issue. Then I can narrow down where the > problem > might be. I may just be getting the mail delayed to me, I have no idea > when > they are getting to other people. > > I noticed I had a warning about messages bouncing a while back on some > list > and I think it was this one (which is mad as I have had constant > uptime with > this email address and if I'm away will change to digest mode.) > > Anyway, if this does go through (9pm Tuesday March 7 NZ time which is > +12 > hours GMT) I have recently updated my website with costumes I haven't > linked > from my main page before. > > Latest projects are: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/phantom/wishing.htm > Replica of the Blue Dress from the Aussie productions of Phantom of the > Opera. > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/dracula/2mina.htm > Red dress from the 1992 movie of Dracula (I also put up a subsection > for > other people's recreations.) > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm > Bruyn inspired gown from the Cleves/Cologne region. I have finally > settled > on a sort of colour scheme;) > > I'm also working on another fully pleated skirt from the 1880s but > have yet > to decide on the style of bodice. I have lots of fabric for a few > interchangeble styles actually. > > > Twiddling my fingers til my posts show up.. > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: > 6/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:54:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DsOTQ030697 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:54:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27DsRen027295; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:54:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DsAv0063576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:54:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DsAXr049621; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:54:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27Ds6wx049459 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.13e.25c4cd5e (15702) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:53:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID53-3d56440d9072267; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:53:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> References: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> Message-Id: <635c8e173d29f964269146ab610f901e@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:53:54 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:54:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D9093.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27DsOTQ030697 Status: RO Diane, Thank you for putting the history in order. I am fumbling around, looking for information about riding and costuming. You know how it goes. Research leads to more research. I find myself in interesting side researches, too. That's how I made a golfing outfit and learned to decorate a Bustle Hat as wells as, an Edwardian hat, made from scratch. Fun things that I never thought I'd do. That's how I found and joined this costume list-curiosity. I'd love to see photos of your saddles and your clothing. I am so impressed! SCA with all its rich fabrics and equestrian games is fascinating. What brand of saddle do you use for SCA? Do you know Kate from PA? She does SCA, as well. Susan (NJ) "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 6, 2006, at 10:28 PM, Diane Maynard wrote: > I am going to attempt to put in short version a very long > subject------First > of all, the Victorian idea of modesty is just that---Victorian. Most > periods before this time frame did not have the "modesty" that we > refer to > and women (and Ladies) that rode and controlled their own horse would > ride > astride. Women that were traveling but, did not "Ride" would travel by > Pillion saddle. This is a saddle that sits the rider totally side > ways on > the horse with a platform under the feet. There are numerous > references, > paintings, and tapestries that depict this style of travel for women. > When > traveling like this, there is usually a groom to lead and control the > horse > that the woman is on top of. By the 16 th century, Catherine de Medici > began to ride "Side-Saddle" for hunting. She actually took her > husband's > hunting saddle and threw her leg over the front horn. By doing this, > she > was actually still facing forward while both legs were on the same > side. > Elizabeth I copied her style and also rode "side-saddle". There is > what is > considered one of Elizabeth I 's side saddles in one of the London > museums. > Although considered quite an accomplished rider and well verse in > hunting, > when doing a parade or any public display, Queen Elizabeth I was > normally > being led to insure nothing could happen to endanger her. There are > also > accounts of Queen Elizabeth I wearing her Farthingale and that they > were so > large as to dwarf the mount she was riding. There are numerous > portraits of > Ladies and Queens riding astride through the 17 th century. It is not > until > the Victorian time frame that it becomes extremely improper for a Lady > to > ride astride. > > > > Why ride side saddle? Clothes. One can wear a skirt with a much > smaller > circumference if they are riding side saddle. To make a skirt that > looks > good and covers the rider's leg when riding astride takes a minimum of > 7 > yards. I can make a side saddle skirt in 4 yards. > > > > In case no one can tell----I find the history of the side saddle > fascinating > and I also ride side-saddle. I also used to give jumping demos > side-saddle > and I ride the SCA Equestrian games side saddle. I have run rings, > hit > quintains, etc. all in my side saddle and wearing my full Elizabethan > gowns > (and won). I currently own two modern jumping side saddles and one > 1846 > antique western side saddle that I bought from the family it was > originally > made for. > > > > Sorry----my post got longer than I anticipated, > > > > Diane > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 08:59:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Dx6kL030908 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:59:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Dx9EY032337; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:59:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27DwNdr064068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:58:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DwMwe052902; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27DwDd7052764 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:58:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2b4.5ceea47 (15876) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:58:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-3e04440d916b3e4; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:58:03 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <008e01c641a5$9e8e6820$0401010a@michaela> References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <058201c64189$09326360$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> <008e01c641a5$9e8e6820$0401010a@michaela> Message-Id: <7bdbd15951615db241ca849dfb05d426@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:58:02 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:59:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D91AD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27Dx6kL030908 Status: RO < it's a bit hard to tell.) > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg >> Perfect! Thanks. The first link shows the front. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 7, 2006, at 12:11 AM, michaela wrote: >> sideways with their back parallel to >> the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the >> horse's left side. > >> I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I >> can > see >> where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, as it >> would > be >> a little like driving a car from the backseat. This position would >> put the >> woman more in the class of cargo, rather than "riding". It would be a >> form >> of transportation similar to sitting in a wagon, I'm sure. > > I have some images from 16thC woodcuts, and I think the tapestry of > Maximilian > shows Maria of Hungary riding like this (though the view is from the > back so > it's a bit hard to tell.) > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg > > Sorry I don't have the folder public, so if the links are broken try > this: > http://photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/frau/ > Then pasting the file names individually: > ammanwomanonhorsebackholdingfan.jpg > ammonmanandwomanhavingaconversationonhorseback.jpg > ammonwomanonhoresback.jpg > > Certainly a less than comfortable ride if you want to face forward! > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: > 6/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 09:21:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27ELa9m031836 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:21:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27ELdaq009588; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:21:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27EJh6l067165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:19:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27EJULp071729; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:19:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27EJQBQ071628 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 07:19:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.173.237.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.173.237]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGd25-0005HS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:19:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <48C28618-ADE2-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> <48C28618-ADE2-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <251E1824-ADE6-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: [h-cost] Producing Shakespeare (some choice costume notes!) Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:24:53 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:21:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440D96F3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A colleague sent me this link. It's how-NOT-to tips about Shakespeare productions, many concerning costumes, most or all evidently written from experience. Give yourself plenty of time to absorb, reflect, howl with laughter. http://angevin2.livejournal.com/148520.html --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 10:47:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27FlNlf003183 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27FlO0H018628; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27FkINE081057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27FkEHE063700; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27FkAaV063613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:46:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:13494 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FGeNk-0007xy-OU for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:45:53 -0600 Message-ID: <334d01c641fe$3464fcd0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com><00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> <48C28618-ADE2-11DA-956B-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:45:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 10:47:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DAB0C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Speaking of servers not liking people, does anyone know if Saragrace Knauf's website has up and died away completely, or if it's just hibernating? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 11:32:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27GVwm5004835 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:31:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27GVxog007855; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:32:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27GQ8rJ087762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27GPqm8003805; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [207.215.93.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27GPi44003599 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:25:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (66-81-42-231.nocal.dialup.o1.com [66.81.42.231]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id k27GRGk06945 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:27:16 -0800 Message-ID: <001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:11:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 11:32:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DB57F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand > fans are your new best friend? Me, Me! "Is it hot in here?" "I don't know, ask someone younger. " Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 12:18:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27HITnU006484 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:18:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27HIW6Q031138; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:18:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27HHkZs096352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:17:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27HHZt2055021; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:17:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27HHRpK054936 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:17:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jeanine@woollycat.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([68.239.36.22]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVR00MKGPCCEYE7@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 11:17:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:15:38 -0500 From: "Jeanine E. Swick" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cossack coat In-reply-to: <8296995c0602251816q7f70118dv7f4f20d8502589a5@mail.gmail.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <440DBFBA.5060900@woollycat.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <000301c63a40$b1eaa260$6400a8c0@MAIN> <8296995c0602251816q7f70118dv7f4f20d8502589a5@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:18:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DC068.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Amazon Dry Goods still has some in stock. It is pattern number 502. Jeanine Lynn Downward wrote: >Is Folkwear's Cossack pattern still available? > >LynnD > > >On 2/25/06, Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > > >> Speaking of making your own clothes, it has been my desire for >>some time to make myself a new winter coat, one which is fashionable and >>warm, something to go with the stunning sable and mink Russian style hat I >>have. >> >> >> >> Does anyone have any idea where I might be able to find a >>pattern, or photos, of these wonderful coats? I've searched the net for >>days >>on end to no avail. I can't find that big-skirted, wide collared coat with >>the huge cuffs I so have loved for years. >> >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Lorina >> >>Five Rivers Chapmanry >> >>purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, >>re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. >> >>519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 12:48:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Hm2Xl007540 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:48:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Hm5iu011756; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:48:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27Hlod3001773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27HlneI085266; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27HlhVD085062 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:47:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k27HlaF01877.; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:47:36 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:47:36 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:47:28 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[h-cost]=20soir=E9e=20d=B4hiver=20more=20pi?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ctures?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k27HlhVD085062 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:48:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DC755.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Splendid pictures! I love the middle one on the second row; it looks like a painting by Joseph Wright ( the famous artist from my home town of Derby who specialised in, among other things, candlelight scenes). See http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/wright/WRJ014.html Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 06/03/2006 20:27 >>> Hi, Shameless of me, i uploaded the first clickable pictures with the ones of myself. Its so seldom i had any pictures of me wearing the blue suit, and also my humble mundane. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver3.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 13:48:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Im5oV009789 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:48:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27Im8hp005239; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:48:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27IkcVF011309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:47:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27Ijk3B040447; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:45:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27Ijap5040188 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FGhBY-00037v-7K for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:45:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:44:06 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors References: <014f01c6419a$f9a580a0$6400a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <014f01c6419a$f9a580a0$6400a8c0@Penny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:48:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DD568.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Fantastic! I'm busy decorating - this makes such a welcome change from "sorbet" and "mist" and "spice". I'm disappointed with My Chihuahua Bites, though - I think it should be poison green. I was traumatised as a child by a ballet examiner with bright green nail polish and a small dog under the desk. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote >I am always looking for funny color names. OPI has some 2006 nail >polish colors names! Check these out: >Reds: >*** I'm Not Really a Waitress >*** Nice Color, Eh? >*** O'Hare & Nails Look Great! >*** SoHo Nice to Meet You >*** You Rock-apulco Red >*** My Chihuahua Bites! (my favorite) > >To view all their color names go to http://www.opi.com/ > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, >The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com >Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com >Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 15:06:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27K6U9j012630 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:06:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27K6XvD007735; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:06:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27K60AO023227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:06:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27K5ud7014619; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:05:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27K5otY014538 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:05:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f551e.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.30]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D29D9A50076 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:05:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001301c64222$78d9f8b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5Bh-cost=5D_soir=E9e_d=B4hiver_more_pictures?= Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:05:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:06:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DE7C9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Kate, Thanks, this is not a picture i took, but you are right, it has a very nice lightening in it. I make a mistake by using flash i know, but i have tryed to not use flash with my digital camera, and the pictures gets very dark. I want people to be able to see the costumes, and therefore i use flash. I am very pleased if some of you like the pictures, it was a real nice weekend. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soirée d´hiver more pictures > Splendid pictures! I love the middle one on the second row; it looks like > a painting by Joseph Wright ( the famous artist from my home town of Derby > who specialised in, among other things, candlelight scenes). See > http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/wright/WRJ014.html > > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 06/03/2006 20:27 >>> > Hi, > Shameless of me, i uploaded the first clickable pictures with the ones of > myself. Its so seldom i had any pictures of me wearing the blue suit, and > also my humble mundane. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver3.htm > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 15:39:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27KdwLV013775 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:39:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27KdwAj023272; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:40:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27KdMtD028556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27KdIfk047865; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:39:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27KdBLQ047832 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kristinolivia@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t12so11735wxc for ; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:39:11 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=dFtD07wmT4MwCGBQ9oXoz9blb82XWoCHmzoi/XaBTwNNWkRdO7T4teRCVJKDlrX9p5ROtBDLhntR06yCWwUXK27gtFG8/3whaQQ+4N45DI22LF0p8z3GeDIi9w3KP3PRVWv2AbZooEkUqH1sj8uRk2bzet85VjYqxJs/El9l5WU= Received: by 10.70.16.17 with SMTP id 17mr952095wxp; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.35.19 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:39:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33a78bfb0603071239i71730344wedfabd13baba9e40@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:39:10 -0500 From: Kristin To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] OT - Archives, Costume exhibits overseas... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:40:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DEF9E.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k27KdwLV013775 Status: RO How do I access the archives? I'd look to see if any advice has been offered in the past, but I have no idea where to look. I'll be heading to Europe in late June / early July, and like to know if there are any good women's clothing collections in the cities I'll be visiting. I'm interested primarily in 18th century. I'll be visiting Munich, Venice and Paris. Thanks for your help! Kristin (costuming novice, but sewing since childhood) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 15:57:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27KuuNH014291 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:56:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27KuxC1030997; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:57:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27KuPGn031757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:56:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27KuMt7064812; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:56:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27KuGPd064686 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:56:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25933 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:27:24 -0600 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:27:22 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Archives, Costume exhibits overseas... In-Reply-To: <33a78bfb0603071239i71730344wedfabd13baba9e40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:57:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440DF39B.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Tue, 7 Mar 2006, Kristin wrote: > How do I access the archives? I'd look to see if any advice has been > offered in the past, but I have no idea where to look. The closest thing we have to an archive is here, thanks to the faithful efforts of listmember Eric Praetzel: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/ But your question is worth asking fresh. Exhibits change all the time. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:02:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M2C0p016510 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:02:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M2CeV026244; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:02:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27M1gg2042338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:01:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M1Vvx029867; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:01:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M1Ktq029638 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:01:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from audreybmorin@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i1so35984nzh for ; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:01:19 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=Ged3+PF1W08CWIcAg+CS/5tnWwdPZlJLAif2PIDJdAtkU2C2MARMiAYzAqpmBiGsc/luwCqhwQk6L62gkqvnGIMpZ0u9IHUqoyNuTBPL3MeTNcN5/Z3WenC5PUMeJdTsseh62n2E9SElotrnL/2jCcfqQfrd8slmIEB+kcmxj+Y= Received: by 10.64.210.18 with SMTP id i18mr24781qbg; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from p4audrey ( [24.203.172.211]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id e19sm36111qbe.2006.03.07.14.01.18; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 14:01:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00c301c64232$ac1cbb80$0302a8c0@p4audrey> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:01:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:02:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E02E4.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >> Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your > hand >> fans are your new best friend? > > Me, Me! > > "Is it hot in here?" > > "I don't know, ask someone younger. " > > Margo I'm no good, even if I *am* younger. I'm always cold :-) "Is it cold in here?" "I don't know, ask someone normal." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:05:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M52LS016604 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:05:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M55vl027493; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:05:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27M4KNO042795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:04:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M4H4n032723; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:04:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M4Bu4032474 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:04:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVS004C52M7XNB4@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:03:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:03:41 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:05:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E0391.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Personally I would love some of those Elizabethan colors: Dead Spaniard and Dirty Isabella come to mind... :-) Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 1:44 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors Fantastic! I'm busy decorating - this makes such a welcome change from "sorbet" and "mist" and "spice". I'm disappointed with My Chihuahua Bites, though - I think it should be poison green. I was traumatised as a child by a ballet examiner with bright green nail polish and a small dog under the desk. Jean Penny Ladnier wrote >I am always looking for funny color names. OPI has some 2006 nail >polish colors names! Check these out: >Reds: >*** I'm Not Really a Waitress >*** Nice Color, Eh? >*** O'Hare & Nails Look Great! >*** SoHo Nice to Meet You >*** You Rock-apulco Red >*** My Chihuahua Bites! (my favorite) > >To view all their color names go to http://www.opi.com/ > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, >The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com >Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com >Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:07:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M7mjY016702 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:07:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M7pT9028507; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:07:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27M60pU043062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:06:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M5x4K034503; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:05:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M5tZ0034307 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:05:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVS00ECO2P41WM2@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:05:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:05:26 -0500 From: monica spence In-reply-to: To: Laurel , Maunche , Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th C. Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:07:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E0437.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi all-- This was just on my email list for the Costume Society of America. Regards- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) NEW ONLINE RESOURCE A new research resource for 16th Century dress is now online. A pilot database of images is available at: http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies. Compiled by Dr. JANE MALCOLM-DAVIES [International Region VIII] of the Winchester School of Art, this is the first stage of a proposed project to photograph and disseminate images of Tudor effigies in UK churches. The pilot database contains 44 effigies with photographs of items and features of dress. This represents about two per cent of the material that could be compiled. Eventually, each effigy and its details will have a description with appropriate 16th Century terms and an explanation of how they were worn. Feedback on the database will help with continued funding for the project. Please visit http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies and send comments to: mailto:jane@jmdandco.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:09:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M9mkO016786 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:09:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27M9pm2019847; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:09:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27M9WNO043442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:09:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M9PZO037980; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:09:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27M9Jpe037845 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:09:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FGkMo1gKf-000215; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:09:19 -0500 Message-ID: <019a01c64233$cd211320$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:09:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:09:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E04AF.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Margo, Have you seen the new commercial about women and hot flashes. They are so funny. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:23:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27MNt8C017237 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27MNwhT002348; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:24:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27MNTSR045285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:23:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27MNRwI052029; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:23:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27MNLMf051911 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:23:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1FGkaO12PU-0006xi; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:23:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01b901c64235$c2b883d0$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny><001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> <00c301c64232$ac1cbb80$0302a8c0@p4audrey> Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:24:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E07FE.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Audrey, I was cold for years. But when the change hit it is the opposite. I was driving down the highway this morning with the windows down... it was 30 degrees outside. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 17:26:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27MQBIj017309 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:26:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27MQFiJ003259; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:26:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27MPwtO045545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:25:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27MPuUi054252; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:25:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27MPqwC054160 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1FGkcl0hrr-0006qr; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:25:48 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd01c64236$1a785a00$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Funny Nail Polish Colors Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:25:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:26:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E0887.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Monica, I haven't heard of dirty Isabella as a color name before. What source did you use to find that name? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 18:28:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27NS5Ql019242 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:28:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k27NS8xm026486; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:28:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27NRhCg054101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:27:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27NRWnI011597; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:27:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27NRQqp011465 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 16:27:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5598.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.152]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A73647FE6B for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:27:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c6423e$a7e5d220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com> <00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:27:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 18:28:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E1708.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Michaela, Thanks for posting the links. I enjoyed it very much. Loved your bustle dresses, and how the h.......did you make that picture with changeable colours? Very impressive!!! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:02 AM Subject: [h-cost] Sorry for this,testing but also latest projects if you are bored. >I haven't had my last several emails I posted to the list, and a few before > that were delayed by several days, not just a few hours. I was wondering > if > others are having the same issue. Then I can narrow down where the problem > might be. I may just be getting the mail delayed to me, I have no idea > when > they are getting to other people. > > I noticed I had a warning about messages bouncing a while back on some > list > and I think it was this one (which is mad as I have had constant uptime > with > this email address and if I'm away will change to digest mode.) > > Anyway, if this does go through (9pm Tuesday March 7 NZ time which is +12 > hours GMT) I have recently updated my website with costumes I haven't > linked > from my main page before. > > Latest projects are: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/phantom/wishing.htm > Replica of the Blue Dress from the Aussie productions of Phantom of the > Opera. > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/dracula/2mina.htm > Red dress from the 1992 movie of Dracula (I also put up a subsection for > other people's recreations.) > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm > Bruyn inspired gown from the Cleves/Cologne region. I have finally settled > on a sort of colour scheme;) > > I'm also working on another fully pleated skirt from the 1880s but have > yet > to decide on the style of bodice. I have lots of fabric for a few > interchangeble styles actually. > > > Twiddling my fingers til my posts show up.. > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.0/275 - Release Date: 6/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 19:23:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k280Nrov020934 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:23:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k280NuAG014231; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:23:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k280Nb0D063969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k280NZXV060582; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k280NVIj060521 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:23:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.65.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.65] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGmMX-000351-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:17:10 -0500 Message-ID: <440E303A.9090003@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:15:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack References: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:23:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E241C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Here are a couple from the 17th century, courtesy of Web Gallery of Art: VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian 1634-35 Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm Museo del Prado, Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Margarita on Horseback 1634-35 Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm Museo del Prado, Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience could venture. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 20:08:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2818UpY022923 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:08:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2818Xk0030399; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:08:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2818ABt070507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:08:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28186C9097642; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:08:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28182EI097561 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:08:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nWsEP6AvphOc+g7Z6wHPK8tzIwGJk1R8g9fcIeqx0sHM5xHVidKZlSXzbVImKpdC; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.230.60.113] (helo=camelot01) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGn9l-0002of-22 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:08:02 -0500 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:08:23 -0600 Organization: Camelot Horse Center Message-ID: <006901c6424c$cd3506f0$ee1be604@camelot01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcZCRrir8q1d170ARd2P0D12bdLh/wABVbrA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-Reply-To: <440E303A.9090003@faucet.net> X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120a8d4a2faead544eefc091378b9bd56a014353dbccc8a7aa3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.230.60.113 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k28182EI097561 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:08:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E2E91.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I can tell you that that I believe that BOTH of these paintings are of women riding ASTRIDE. These are two of my favorite paintings and I have duplicated both of these gowns for myself. It takes a LOT of material to make the skirts of these gowns. If one is riding side-saddle, the gown will not "envelope" the hind quarters of the horse the way these gowns do. I side saddle gown will literally hang to the side of the legs (covering the legs)and not cover the hindquarters of the horse. Diane VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian 1634-35 Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm Museo del Prado, Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Margarita on Horseback 1634-35 Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm Museo del Prado, Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience could venture. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 22:25:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283PAPu027178 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:25:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283PCjE011962; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:25:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k283Oqt2088850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:24:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283OkWj009197; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:24:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283OdfZ009099 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.145] (pm5-145.eos.net [205.133.149.145]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k283OahI006873 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:24:37 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:12:39 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603071915.k27JF16h066821@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: soiredhiver X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:25:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E4E98.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne: These pictures are lovely, and how nice to see so many of you! I am curious about the event. Are you all in the same Society? How do you know each other? Are you from different countries, and if so what language(s) do you speak when you are all together? That military uniform (I think it is one) is just so gorgeous! And the picture of you dancing with the girl in red -- she looks so perfect. It must have been a wonderful weekend. Who cooked? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 22:36:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283aWAp027547 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:36:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283aZuN015515; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:36:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k283aDms090071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:36:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283aCLK017366; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51311.mail.yahoo.com (web51311.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k283Zx0Y017223 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 75019 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2006 03:35:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=W5+N0Y5ZjEocrWqXQrEyMSg46bWa0gN15XHISEUZfSI5SHZ5d1MAlY55y/XH220NzjtQA5w5jNS8tHd3BdWgboXH1T/LJEnM4A+XtEAZyaL/2coY61y6g2orNd6zuc5g9eEVza7IoE82D96TDO4atp6G7v4orSnlHkSVHXdZ/Lw= ; Message-ID: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.135.74] by web51311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:35:54 PST Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <53a0929df06dbb16543d77be6af91aff@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:36:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E5144.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Spreading the legs apart when they are decently covered with long skirts is perfectly okay. Ruth M. Green, in her "Wearing of Costume", mentions that keeping the legs together in long skirts is not particularly decent nor is it necessary. The eighteenth century in particular showed the 'broad lap'. The nineteenth century Huck Finn was caught out when cross-dressing--a girl would spread her legs to let her skirt catch something thrown, while Huck, used to pants, closed his legs to catch something. It wasn't until the short skirts of the twentieth century that it became "not Nice" for a girl to have her legs apart. Mistakes mine; it's been a while since I read Ms. Green's book. Or Huck Finn. Ann in CT --- Susan Data-Samtak wrote: >The "propriety point" is that a LADY did not spread > her legs apart. > > Susan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 22:41:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283fFdT027684 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:41:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k283fIR4016933; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:41:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k283eq8h090565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:40:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283eqg0020731; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k283elYv020626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FGpXc-0000FF-3p; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:40:48 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:40:48 -0500 Message-ID: <20060307224048.27sq49ehst1icogw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:40:48 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans References: <000801c63e93$c6044100$6400a8c0@Penny> <001901c64201$bd17ec60$e72a5142@dnyeaqvf> <00c301c64232$ac1cbb80$0302a8c0@p4audrey> In-Reply-To: <00c301c64232$ac1cbb80$0302a8c0@p4audrey> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:41:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E525E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Audrey Bergeron-Morin : >>> Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your >> hand >>> fans are your new best friend? >> >> Me, Me! >> >> "Is it hot in here?" >> >> "I don't know, ask someone younger. " >> >> Margo > > I'm no good, even if I *am* younger. I'm always cold :-) > > "Is it cold in here?" > > "I don't know, ask someone normal." And you *really* know that you've got problems when your always "cold" except when you're having a hot flash. *sigh* At least they've gone! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 23:29:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k284TFAI029111 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:29:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k284TIHE032742; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:29:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k284Soge095628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:28:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k284SlMP055887; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k284SiLm055771 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:28:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10E8A1F78 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:28:34 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:29:53 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for sources of art X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:29:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E5D9E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm looking for more online galleries like The Web Gallery of Art at wga.hu, sites with a large collection of searchable images and information about those images. Can anyone suggest some new sites to visit? I'm increasingly frustrated with museum sites that list little more than the accession number along with a thumbnail. I really want to be able to see the art in detail and read about the artist or the subject. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 7 23:55:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k284ti5i029620 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k284tlK8008792; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k284sIdj098414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:54:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k284sH1E074216; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:54:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k284sEwD074158 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A25371902A8; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:49:23 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:54:17 -0800 Message-ID: <003c01c6426c$5af625e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:55:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E63D3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I usually wash as much as possible, however, washing polished cotton has resulted in the "polish" washing out, and stiff taffeta got limp and wrinkly. I wash my cotton velvet Renaissance costume and the silk sleeves/forepart. Also dry in dryer until just damp. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Chris Laning Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:21 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question At 10:40 AM -0600 3/5/06, Betsy Marshall wrote: >My information is that dry cleaning helps preserve the fabric >treatments used by the manufacturer- either fabric or clothing >processes; so fabric of wool, linen, silk or combinations thereof, >_can_ be washed, just be prepared for the size/hand/texture to change. >(Personally I toss it all in the washer on cold and let the chips, er, >scraps fall where they may.) My philosophy is to give the finished garment a cleaning treatment that's one step gentler than the washing I gave the fabric before I cut it out. I pretty much machine wash all yardage as soon as I get it home and the edges zigzagged. This has worked a lot better for some things than others. I've not had any problems with linen or silk, but I've learned to be more careful about wool, especially about tumble drying it. I had a wool Elizabethan gown (and I can now boast that it was custom-made for me by Margo -- yes, THAT Margo, of Margo's patterns ) and she washed my wool yardage on hot, _three_ times before she cut it out. And I washed it on cold and dried it on barely lukewarm, and it DID shrink, almost three inches in length after half a dozen washings. :( -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 00:22:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k285Lw5i029990 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:21:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k285M1t9017184; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:22:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k285LbRV001227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:21:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k285LaLF094110; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:21:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k285LWwC094056 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:21:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20l3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.163] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGr75-00077s-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:21:31 -0500 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060307221828.02c75008@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:23:05 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200603070328.k273S9gt000560@net.indra.com> References: <200603070328.k273S9gt000560@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume Con X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:22:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E69F9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The program for CC 24 is currently in development. It is typical that the program is not finalized until a month or so before the convention. If there is something that you would particularly like to see, or something you would like to present, now is the time to contact our program director, Sheril Harper, at: programming@epicmovies.org Or you can contact us and we'll forward it to her. BTW, we very likely will be doing the chemical and burn test panel that has been discussed here in the past. Sandy At 09:28 PM 3/6/2006, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:16:28 -0600 >From: Dawn >Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon > >I was wondering who all from the list was thinking of going. Or who >would be lecturing there. Anyone? > >I notice that there's still next to no info available on the website, >just a couple months out now, and I was wondering if I should be >worried. Or do these things always pull themselves together at the last >minute? I can already find thorough information on other events much >later in the summer and I'm getting concerned because I have no idea >what to expect from CostumeCon. I'm thinking I ought to reserve a hotel >room pretty soon, if I'm going. > >Dawn "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 00:35:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k285Zl7c030169 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:35:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k285ZoAu021837; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:35:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k285ZNNc002378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:35:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k285ZKOk003962; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:35:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k285ZGPM003854 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2c4.4b657d4 (16109) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed440e6d0a1bc; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:35:06 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <440E303A.9090003@faucet.net> References: <002c01c64197$2e9cc150$ee1be604@camelot01> <440E303A.9090003@faucet.net> Message-Id: <5e809b67aeffe7173a7f2d84e5cae7ec@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 00:35:04 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:35:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E6D36.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k285Zl7c030169 Status: RO Thank you Melanie. The clothing is breathtaking. I can't see the Queen riding at any gait faster than a walk without having the horse get tangled in all the heavy drapery. I cannot tell if she is riding sidesaddle, either. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 7, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: > Here are a couple from the 17th century, courtesy of Web Gallery of > Art: > > VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y > Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian > 1634-35 > Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm > Museo del Prado, Madrid > http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg > > VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y > Queen Margarita on Horseback > 1634-35 > Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm > Museo del Prado, Madrid > http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg > > It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or > sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience could > venture. > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 01:55:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k286tkX6000661 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:55:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k286tmY8015224; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:55:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k286tRvX009471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k286tK0D056342; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k286tHB4056301 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:55:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bOSi0kLJPlbG8B6U/hysIcKYVXzN5IwdezIzoUEw1LN8zGygeWjNYoja8xYqp5WU; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.122.48] (helo=boris) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FGsZo-0001Bn-VT for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:55:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:55:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48a3ce79dd05d30e83fa143fc9e2621f83a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.122.48 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:55:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440E7FF4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > Spreading the legs apart when they are decently > covered with long skirts is perfectly okay. > > Ruth M. Green, in her "Wearing of Costume", mentions > that keeping the legs together in long skirts is not > particularly decent nor is it necessary. > The eighteenth century in particular showed the 'broad > lap'. > Ann in CT Not only was it ok, but in some styles it was practically impossible to sit with the legs together. I wear 1630's French clothing a lot, and with the long stomachers on the dresses, sitting with my legs apart is manditory. I've also got more than a few pictures of women riding astride from this period, including some who rode into combat during the 30 years and English Civil Wars. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 04:43:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k289hbjF002730 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 04:43:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k289hecN031297; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 04:43:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k289hA0h026875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:43:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k289h7Ft063892; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:43:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k289h2u9063786 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:43:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k289guP17319.; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:42:56 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:42:56 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:42:48 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k289h2u9063786 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 04:43:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440EA74C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A comedy sketch show on BBC Radio 4 had a running gag about a middle-aged superwoman figure who arrived saying "Is it me, or is it hot in here?", but was able to solve problems by knowing things that younger people don't (such as having the multiplication tables in her head). Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 05:48:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Am0gY020542 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:48:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Am2xP018597; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:48:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Algia034858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:47:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28AlcLh008418; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:47:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28AlWou008353 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:47:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5598.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.152]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8609047FED5 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:47:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003801c6429d$b6ad57b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: soiredhiver Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:47:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 05:48:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440EB663.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Gail. Most of the people, i know from Gustavs Skål (the swedish gustavian society) We are spread out in Europe and the german friends came to Mauritia (Reinnes des Centfeuilles) They are willing to travel far to get to events like me coming from Denmark. Mauritia has a big house, and she generously opened it for us all to come as we liked for 3 days. Mauritia and her daughter Kim, cooked all the wonderfull food, baked bread set the table and so on. Saturday we went for an outing to an old castle, and afterwards we drove into the woods to a small inn, where Mauritia had ordered a lunch for us. Wonderfull red dear roast. This was the only thing we payed for individually, all the rest was free. The uniform is very nice, its a preussian officers uniform. And the girl in red also wore the green redingote in front of the castle, and the yellow servantgirls outfit. She is a very tallented young girl, and i am sure you will hear more from here in the future. When i was her age, i didnt have half the tallent as she has. My favourite was her green redingote with a huge hat, it was so lovely. Bjarne ----- Original Messag ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: soiredhiver > > Bjarne: > > These pictures are lovely, and how nice to see so many of you! I am > curious > about the event. Are you all in the same Society? How do you know each > other? Are you from different countries, and if so what language(s) do you > speak when you are all together? > > That military uniform (I think it is one) is just so gorgeous! And the > picture of you dancing with the girl in red -- she looks so perfect. It > must > have been a wonderful weekend. Who cooked? > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 07:45:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28CjZBD012070 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:45:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Cjcb7025298; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:45:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28CivUL048594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:44:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Cirtb094669; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:44:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28CijOu094546 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:44:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.126.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.126] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FGy1v-0006Bm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:44:40 -0500 Message-ID: <440EDF6B.2030908@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:43:07 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for sources of art References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 07:45:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440ED1F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO CGFA and Olga's Gallery are good general sites: http://cgfa.dotsrc.org/ http://www.abcgallery.com/index.html If you're looking for works by a particular artist, or you know the title of a work but not the artist, try Artcyclopedia: http://www.artcyclopedia.com/ Happy searching, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume Dawn wrote: > I'm looking for more online galleries like The Web Gallery of Art at > wga.hu, sites with a large collection of searchable images and > information about those images. Can anyone suggest some new sites to > visit? I'm increasingly frustrated with museum sites that list little > more than the accession number along with a thumbnail. I really want to > be able to see the art in detail and read about the artist or the subject. > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 09:43:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Eha1c017112 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:43:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28EhdKA009764; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:43:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28EgmM3062722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:42:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28EggbQ091829; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:42:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k28EgcaF091709 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:42:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABCA75LMA3YKHQA for (sender ); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LJXTYXM6; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:42:09 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:41:46 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Message-ID: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-18,20-63 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 23:11:71113694 X-MAIL-INFO: 3331946d316d993594c4d44449f961d150e19189c05141e1512d5531548511251174719d7471d91471d9c9542d356db9d4dd3530940dd47d303d5dd13019388985648539c1d9b5718514 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn71Tho/uj7J1gJc9HWSuOubBcajqrqeqwBQ== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:43:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440EED9B.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm not an expert on equestrian costume or riding side-saddle, but I think these ladies ARE riding side-saddle. I can see the subtle outline of the right leg wrapped around the saddle horn with the left leg hanging more or less vertically. As for the skirt spreading, I have seen it done. At Bristol, Mary Kababik, who plays Queen Elizabeth, has ridden in the main parade on a side-saddle for the last 5 years and with the amount of fabric in her skirt it looks almost exactly like that. In this painting the ladies aren't riding perpendicular to the horse, they are riding more or less parallel wi the horse with their lower body turned slightly to the side. Just my ha'penny's worth, Karen Seamstrix On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:08:23 -0600 "Diane Maynard" writes: > I can tell you that that I believe that BOTH of these paintings are > of women > riding ASTRIDE. These are two of my favorite paintings and I have > duplicated both of these gowns for myself. It takes a LOT of > material to > make the skirts of these gowns. If one is riding side-saddle, the > gown will > not "envelope" the hind quarters of the horse the way these gowns > do. I > side saddle gown will literally hang to the side of the legs > (covering the > legs)and not cover the hindquarters of the horse. > > Diane > > > VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y > Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian > 1634-35 > Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm > Museo del Prado, Madrid > http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg > > VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y > Queen Margarita on Horseback > 1634-35 > Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm > Museo del Prado, Madrid > http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg > > It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or > sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience > could > venture. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 10:16:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28FG1iS019040 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:16:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28FG4MG025910; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:16:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28FFFSY068992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28FFCN2026388; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:15:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28FErYS025960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:15:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FH0NG-0001qT-9d; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:14:50 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:14:50 -0500 Message-ID: <20060308101450.s3nc0nngat4ww0ck@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:14:50 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Change & Hand Fans References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:16:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440EF534.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Kate M Bunting : > A comedy sketch show on BBC Radio 4 had a running gag about a > middle-aged superwoman figure who arrived saying "Is it me, or is it > hot in here?", but was able to solve problems by knowing things that > younger people don't (such as having the multiplication tables in her > head). That's good! Just remember, Ladies, they're not Hot Flashes, they're Power Surges! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 11:15:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28GFqto023761 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:15:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28GFuNm020154; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:15:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28G9nuQ087620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:09:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28G9i1Q083882; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28G9c8a083624 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:09:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.25f.82470bd (15889) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:09:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from FWM-R07 (fwm-r07.webmail.aol.com [152.163.211.135]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID84-3e11440f01b73bc; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:09:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:09:27 -0500 Message-Id: <8C810E1CEEDCCB1-165C-10C8E@FWM-R07.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603080341.k283es01020770@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by FWM-R07.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.135) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:09:27 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603080341.k283es01020770@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:15:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F033C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28GFqto023761 Status: RO In both of these paintings, there seems to be a piece of cloth covering the horse to its ankles underneath the ladies' gowns. Was this a standard part of saddlery, or was it specific to lady riders? (To protect their skirts, maybe?) Tea Rose, who has ridden horses exactly twice in her life ************************************************************ From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Here are a couple from the 17th century, courtesy of Web Gallery of Art: VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y Queen Margarita on Horseback http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 11:34:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28GYDjd025957 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:34:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28GYGck028016; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:34:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28GXWTr099965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:33:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28GXPFK007641; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:33:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28GXLE3007420 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:33:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.280.6c73aef (16086) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:33:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID103-3ed6440f073d1e3; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:33:01 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> Message-Id: <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:33:00 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:34:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F0788.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28GYDjd025957 Status: RO Thanks, Melusine. From what I've learned, so far, riding clothes were not very different from regular clothes until rather recently. Sidesaddles are also a recent invention. I've heard that sidesaddles, as we understand the term, did not exist prior to about 1800. I don't know if that is true. I've also heard that many of the "conventions" followed by sidesaddle riders today, using english style sidesaddles, go back to Victorian times when so much of life was codified. One example that was pointed out to me: black gloves are appropriate to use for US Rev War impressions, but definitely not for US Civil War, because Victorians used black gloves as part of their mourning attire and "A Lady would not be riding if she were in mourning. A Lady would stay at home, or be driven in a carriage." Can anyone confirm such a statement? As you can see, I have a lot to learn. I am first and foremost interested in my horse. The rest of the costuming and tack are all newer areas to me and so much fun! Thanks for all your input. I'm sure it comes as no surprise that some of our 21st century women riding sidesaddle think it is OK to zip themselves into a polyester costume. Others want to know more. Some of us want to ride, look appropriate, yet be safe with all that our current century throws at us. I consider myself to be in that last category. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 1:55 AM, Carmen Beaudry wrote: > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > > >> Spreading the legs apart when they are decently >> covered with long skirts is perfectly okay. >> >> Ruth M. Green, in her "Wearing of Costume", mentions >> that keeping the legs together in long skirts is not >> particularly decent nor is it necessary. >> The eighteenth century in particular showed the 'broad >> lap'. >> Ann in CT > > Not only was it ok, but in some styles it was practically impossible > to sit with the legs together. I wear 1630's French clothing a lot, > and with the long stomachers on the dresses, sitting with my legs > apart is manditory. I've also got more than a few pictures of women > riding astride from this period, including some who rode into combat > during the 30 years and English Civil Wars. > > Melusine > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 11:50:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Goj2L028694 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:50:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Gomxf003348; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:50:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28GmvSe005097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:48:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28GmgJd023343; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:48:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Gmbb1023178 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:48:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2ea.2b198ec (15863) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID62-3df7440f0ad1244; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:48:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> References: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> Message-Id: <8fbddab4731559da625aefc93fc825bf@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:48:10 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:50:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F0B68.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28Goj2L028694 Status: RO And just to confuse things, Catherine II is definitely riding astride in this painting in the 1700's. > Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 9:41 AM, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > I'm not an expert on equestrian costume or riding side-saddle, but I > think these ladies ARE riding side-saddle. I can see the subtle outline > of the right leg wrapped around the saddle horn with the left leg > hanging > more or less vertically. As for the skirt spreading, I have seen it > done. > At Bristol, Mary Kababik, who plays Queen Elizabeth, has ridden in the > main parade on a side-saddle for the last 5 years and with the amount > of > fabric in her skirt it looks almost exactly like that. In this painting > the ladies aren't riding perpendicular to the horse, they are riding > more > or less parallel wi the horse with their lower body turned slightly to > the side. > > Just my ha'penny's worth, > > Karen > Seamstrix > > > > > On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:08:23 -0600 "Diane Maynard" > writes: >> I can tell you that that I believe that BOTH of these paintings are >> of women >> riding ASTRIDE. These are two of my favorite paintings and I have >> duplicated both of these gowns for myself. It takes a LOT of >> material to >> make the skirts of these gowns. If one is riding side-saddle, the >> gown will >> not "envelope" the hind quarters of the horse the way these gowns >> do. I >> side saddle gown will literally hang to the side of the legs >> (covering the >> legs)and not cover the hindquarters of the horse. >> >> Diane >> >> >> VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >> Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian >> 1634-35 >> Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm >> Museo del Prado, Madrid >> http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg >> >> VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >> Queen Margarita on Horseback >> 1634-35 >> Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm >> Museo del Prado, Madrid >> http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg >> >> It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or >> sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience >> could >> venture. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 12:56:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Hu81L000521 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28HuBIb000651; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28HtTiT024873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:55:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Ht8wq097399; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:55:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f13.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Ht1aw097210 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:55:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrscakehole@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:54:59 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:54:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [86.138.122.41] X-Originating-Email: [mrscakehole@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mrscakehole@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603080341.k283es01020770@net.indra.com> From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:54:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2006 17:54:59.0857 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B15E010:01C642D9] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:56:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F1ABB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO All this talk of fans has reminded me that "Cool: Presenting a Cooling Image - Fans from The Fan Museum and Portraits from the Lafayette Photographic Archive at the V&A" is on at the Fan Museum (London, UK) until 26 March, in case anyone's interested. http://www.fan-museum.org/exhibdetails.asp?exhibID=9 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:23:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNLaK006972 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNPkx007496; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28JN2lo050700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:23:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JMs4d091752; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:22:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k286CZoG028835 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:12:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.9b.7210f30a (16087) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:12:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed7440e75c6b6; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 01:12:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:12:21 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:23:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F2F2D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28JNLaK006972 Status: RO Thanks, Ann. Pays to ask questions or be corrected when incorrect. I was under the impression that a lady never spread her legs apart, regardless of the layers that covered her. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 7, 2006, at 10:35 PM, Ann Catelli wrote: > Spreading the legs apart when they are decently > covered with long skirts is perfectly okay. > > Ruth M. Green, in her "Wearing of Costume", mentions > that keeping the legs together in long skirts is not > particularly decent nor is it necessary. > The eighteenth century in particular showed the 'broad > lap'. > The nineteenth century Huck Finn was caught out when > cross-dressing--a girl would spread her legs to let > her skirt catch something thrown, while Huck, used to > pants, closed his legs to catch something. > > It wasn't until the short skirts of the twentieth > century that it became "not Nice" for a girl to have > her legs apart. > > Mistakes mine; it's been a while since I read Ms. > Green's book. Or Huck Finn. > > Ann in CT > > --- Susan Data-Samtak wrote: >> The "propriety point" is that a LADY did not spread >> her legs apart. >> >> Susan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:23:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNXAS006999 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNb8i000708; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28JN1Z0050697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:23:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JMs5q091766; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:22:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k286HhpD032232 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 23:17:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 22:17:43 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.46.112 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 06:17:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.46.112] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for sources of art Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:17:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 01:17:39 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2006 06:17:43.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[02986B90:01C64278] X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:23:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F2F39.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28JNXAS006999 Status: RO I don't think there is anything quite like the Web Gallery of Art. However, here are some good art sites. http://marquise.de/index.html This site won't tell you about the art, but the blow-ups are fair size and all the pictures are of costume. http://www.enluminures.culture.fr/ The French have a massive data-base of manuscript illuminations. The size of the image varies - often detail shots are available. It can be searched by subject. http://cgfa.dotsrc.org/index.html This is similar to the Web Gallery of Art although not as complete. http://www.bergerfoundation.ch/ I haven't used this site much. The image quality is uneven but has some obscure things. http://www.abcgallery.com/index.html This is another site I haven't used much as it doesn't have a big selection in medieval and renaissance art. On the other hand, their 18th cen. list of artists looks pretty extensive. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:23:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNofU007067 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JNrSc005487; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:23:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28JN03C050692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JMqj5091698; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [216.148.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JMlx7091482 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:22:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter01.comcast.net ([204.127.197.111]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060308192240m11001lfjne>; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:22:40 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter01.comcast.net; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:22:39 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:22:39 +0000 Message-Id: <030820061922.25251.440F2EFF0003F860000062A322007374789C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:23:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F2F49.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO With what I have read and seen in paintings during the past few years of my own research; I've only seen women on horses with that cloth covering. What a saddle blanket! Now, I do want to add that not all women riders used this type of cloth covering. Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: tearoses@aol.com > In both of these paintings, there seems to be a piece of cloth covering the > horse to its ankles underneath the ladies' gowns. Was this a standard part of > saddlery, or was it specific to lady riders? (To protect their skirts, maybe?) > > Tea Rose, who has ridden horses exactly twice in her life _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:40:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Jeoeg008155 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:40:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JerLp016236; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:40:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Jcb3p054136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JcWWc007758; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:38:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Gul9G031856 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:56:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k28GufP11717.; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:56:41 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:56:41 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:56:33 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k28Gul9G031856 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:40:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F3345.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the upper half copying masculine attire. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 16:33:00 >>> Thanks, Melusine. From what I've learned, so far, riding clothes were not very different from regular clothes until rather recently. Sidesaddles are also a recent invention. I've heard that sidesaddles, as we understand the term, did not exist prior to about 1800. I don't know if that is true. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:47:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JlMMq008386 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:47:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28JlQLK019369; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:47:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28JbKbE053840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:41:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28JPkVV095075; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:25:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k289A324044594 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:10:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2899oP15011.; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:09:56 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:09:50 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:09:41 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Isabella, was Funny Nail Polish Colors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k289A324044594 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:47:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F34CE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Penny, I know it as just "Isabella". The story goes that a Queen of Spain vowed not to change her clothes until a certain military campaign had succeeded. Isabella is a greyish-yellow, supposedly the colour her shift became! Casn't quote any sources OTOH, but I've seen it mentioned in literature. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> penny@costumegallery.com 07/03/2006 22:25 >>> Monica, I haven't heard of dirty Isabella as a color name before. What source did you use to find that name? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 14:56:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Juu1V008708 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:56:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Jv0uY023837; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:57:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Ju6FH056807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Ju2V0026233; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28Jtuai026034 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:56:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.275.70976d8 (16109) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:55:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed440f36c13cd; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:55:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> References: <20060308.084146.-148383269.0.penhalion@juno.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:26:10 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:57:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F370C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28Juu1V008708 Status: RO To see the correct modern position of a sidesaddle rider and view some nice costumes for riding, as well, go to : http://www.sidesaddleinfo.com/tip.html Feel free to look around the site, while you are there. Any costuming comments on attire? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 9:41 AM, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > I'm not an expert on equestrian costume or riding side-saddle, but I > think these ladies ARE riding side-saddle. I can see the subtle outline > of the right leg wrapped around the saddle horn with the left leg > hanging > more or less vertically. As for the skirt spreading, I have seen it > done. > At Bristol, Mary Kababik, who plays Queen Elizabeth, has ridden in the > main parade on a side-saddle for the last 5 years and with the amount > of > fabric in her skirt it looks almost exactly like that. In this painting > the ladies aren't riding perpendicular to the horse, they are riding > more > or less parallel wi the horse with their lower body turned slightly to > the side. > > Just my ha'penny's worth, > > Karen > Seamstrix > > > > > On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:08:23 -0600 "Diane Maynard" > writes: >> I can tell you that that I believe that BOTH of these paintings are >> of women >> riding ASTRIDE. These are two of my favorite paintings and I have >> duplicated both of these gowns for myself. It takes a LOT of >> material to >> make the skirts of these gowns. If one is riding side-saddle, the >> gown will >> not "envelope" the hind quarters of the horse the way these gowns >> do. I >> side saddle gown will literally hang to the side of the legs >> (covering the >> legs)and not cover the hindquarters of the horse. >> >> Diane >> >> >> VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >> Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian >> 1634-35 >> Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm >> Museo del Prado, Madrid >> http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg >> >> VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >> Queen Margarita on Horseback >> 1634-35 >> Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm >> Museo del Prado, Madrid >> http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg >> >> It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or >> sidesaddle, but perhaps someone with more equestrian experience >> could >> venture. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 15:38:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28KcUeu010236 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:38:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28KcXZ4010344; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:38:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Kbfdt064500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:37:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28KbSPb068876; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28KbILT068651 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55fe.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.254]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 75ECCA50039 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:37:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004901c642f0$1ba6fa70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:37:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for source of art. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 15:38:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F40C9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I browsed on Olgas gallery under Joshua Reynolds portraits. Gosh how wonderfull these are. There are so many ladies wearing turkish dress, and i wondered was this just a wim for portraits, or did they really dress in turkish some times? I also noticed that Georgiana Duchesse of Devonshire is portraited 2 times, the lady who often is quoted in costume books with the worries of tight laced corsets. Lastly i noticed that many of the names portraited, is names mentioned in Jane Austens books. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 17:43:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Mh1MB015912 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:43:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28Mh43n003232; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:43:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28MgSmc086913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:42:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28MgJGw094718; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:42:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28MgCpB094582 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:42:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A135CD74 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:42:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:42:09 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for sources of art In-Reply-To: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:43:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F5DF8.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:29 PM 3/7/2006, you wrote: >I'm looking for more online galleries like The Web Gallery of Art at >wga.hu, sites with a large collection of searchable images and information >about those images. Can anyone suggest some new sites to visit? I'm >increasingly frustrated with museum sites that list little more than the >accession number along with a thumbnail. I really want to be able to see >the art in detail and read about the artist or the subject. > > >Dawn Hi Dawn, Have you tried Wikimedia Commons? For example, I've found a number of Renaissance era paintings in large detail http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Renaissance_paintings It is kinda hit or miss with background info, it's hard to search for anyone specific, and some images are not yet available, but I have otherwise managed to find images here that I've not seen elsewhere on the net. I also recently discovered a couple of prayer books at the Morgan Library, and I know there are more images on that site I haven't gotten to yet. http://www.morganlibrary.org The ones I was just looking at are: "Two Masterpieces Illuminated by Jean Poyet contains commentary on eighty-three images from the Prayer Book of Anne de Bretagne and the Hours of Henry VIII" http://www.morganlibrary.org/exhibitions/online/html/index_1024.html Click on the image to the left. The Hours of Henry VIII is similar to the Calendar of Simon Bening, with images of people at work. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 18:14:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NErPG016937 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:14:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NEuEc015441; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:14:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NEMas093655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:14:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NEHUR024702; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:14:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NE68q024549 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:14:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB6E5D46F for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:13:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 15:13:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:14:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F6570.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello All, The topic of Pirates at Renaissance events has been breached on another list, and it has me wondering... What would pirates or privateers of the English Renaissance looked like? I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what would everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like during the Elizabethan era? Thanks, Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Fresno, CA, USA "Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild Portraying at California's Central Valley Renaissance Faires Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret Russell) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 18:19:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NJNaw017095 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:19:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NJQtX016959; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:19:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NJ8g2094692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:19:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NJ22k029620; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NIoCC029282 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:18:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE83A4142 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:18:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:18:43 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:19:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F667E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks > like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what would > everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like during the > Elizabethan era? > The Gentlemen of Fortune site gives the best explanation I've seen on the web: www.gentlemenoffortune.com Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 18:20:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NKoTv017138 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:20:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NKsAi027392; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:20:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NKOmZ094910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:20:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NKJYV030992; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:20:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k28NK953030839 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:20:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 72611 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2006 23:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.142.33.104 with login) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2006 23:20:08 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060308231751.01d81210@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 23:20:14 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:20:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F66D6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 23:13 08/03/2006, you wrote: >Hello All, > >The topic of Pirates at Renaissance events has been breached on >another list, and it has me wondering... > >What would pirates or privateers of the English Renaissance looked like? > >I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks >like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what >would everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like >during the Elizabethan era? > >Thanks, I was just looking at "Vecellio's Book of Costumes"(??) and it has several seafaring men depicted. I don't imagine pirates would be any different. It's a Dover book - I may have the title wrong, but the words "Vecellio" and "Costume" are in the title I'm certain. Suzi Thanks for the Books of Hours BTW - lovely. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 18:21:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NLH3o017163 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:21:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k28NLL9j002523; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:21:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NL5x9094992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NL5oe031730; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28NL19j031577 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:21:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2cf.490eec3 (15702) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:20:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID53-3d56440f66d13c4; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:20:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <7c44ec6c1155cb2e59f8ebb5bfddb241@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:20:44 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:21:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F66F1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k28NLH3o017163 Status: RO Thanks, Kate. Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long > ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the > upper half copying masculine attire. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 16:33:00 >>> > Thanks, Melusine. > > From what I've learned, so far, riding clothes were not very different > from regular clothes until rather recently. Sidesaddles are also a > recent invention. I've heard that sidesaddles, as we understand the > term, did not exist prior to about 1800. I don't know if that is true. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 19:18:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k290IhI5019086 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:18:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k290IkkZ004397; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k290I7Iu004271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:18:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k290Hbkh085221; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:17:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net (vms044pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.44]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k290HUnF085060 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:17:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.84.113.26]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVU005YJ3H0YIB4@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:17:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:17:25 -0500 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 19:18:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F7466.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Perhaps so, but it begins nearly a hundred years after the close of the Elizabethan era. Sailors of the Elizabethan period, based on period art wear loose venetians or what willlater be called slops. Some are shown closed at the bottom some are not. The upper body garments tend to be either close fitting doublets, or a loose smock sort of jacket referred to in the period as a cassock. The real obvious indicator of a sailor is the cap. The most notable ones being thrummed caps. Thrummed caps look in art like fur. They are made from strands of woll (thrum) being afixed through the weave of kit caps, not unlike the modern watch cap. Good art does exist out there. A number of Dutch maps shows mariner figures as does the Mariner's Mirror. Actually the Dutch version and the English version depict some different figures. I think it is just after the period, but there are the woodcuts of the BArents expeditions as well. Some art survivies depicting one of Frobisher's trips as well. There is also the image depicted in Vecellios that was earlier mentioned. Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? > Kimiko Small wrote: > > >> I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks >> like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what would >> everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like during the >> Elizabethan era? >> > > > The Gentlemen of Fortune site gives the best explanation I've seen on the > web: > > www.gentlemenoffortune.com > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 21:50:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k292otdb024684 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:50:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k292owEx017763; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:51:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k292oW1A027010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:50:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k292oQ2I013654; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:50:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k292oNHh013609 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m61.in-tch.com [216.166.191.61]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k292fZA29094 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:41:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <004101c64325$38848e20$3dbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <030820061922.25251.440F2EFF0003F860000062A322007374789C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:57:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:51:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440F9812.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Could this be what was called (at least in some 16th c. sources) a "safeguard?" --Sue, costuming but not horse, geek... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack > With what I have read and seen in paintings during the past few years of my own research; I've only seen women on horses with that cloth covering. What a saddle blanket! Now, I do want to add that not all women riders used this type of cloth covering. > > Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 22:38:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293cWpG026213 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:38:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293ca8j031570; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:38:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k293Zw4v031953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:35:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293ZuJj047218; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:35:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [216.148.227.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293ZqIP047097 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:35:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter80.comcast.net ([204.127.197.180]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060309033546m13001ndpte>; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 03:35:46 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter80.comcast.net; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:35:45 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:35:45 +0000 Message-Id: <030920060335.14924.440FA291000830C800003A4C22007601809C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:38:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FA33C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sue, Let me check my papers and my books. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Sue Clemenger" > Could this be what was called (at least in some 16th c. sources) a > "safeguard?" > --Sue, costuming but not horse, geek... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 22:47:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293lZUY026554 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:47:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293lXIK001528; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k293lHs2033012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:47:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293lC6h055457; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:47:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav24.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.96]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293l5sl055350 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:46:56 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.46.112 by BAY106-DAV24.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:46:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.46.112] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "h-costume_indra_com" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:46:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:46:42 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2006 03:46:56.0077 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C66F7D0:01C6432C] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costuming Shakespeare X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:47:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FA555.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k293lZUY026554 Status: RO After reading that hysterically funny list "THE THINGS I WILL NOT DO WHEN I DIRECT A SHAKESPEARE PRODUCTION, ON STAGE OR FILM" when this post came today on an SCA list, I thought it could be added to that list. Janet Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: RE: Truth is stranger... Was: [SCA-AE] Sterling Renn Faire Buffalo NY is fortunate enough to have Shakespeare in Park in Delaware Park. Their schedule is always advertised in advance. Once, they advertised Romeo and Juliet, we decided to make it a 'demo night' We went to the park in Italian Ren garb well prior to the starting time, we had samples of period munchies to give away and our jugglers were juggling with whatever props they were handed. Now, unbeknownst to everybody, because it was supposed to be a 'big surprize', R&J was being done in modern clothes that year. So, when the actors arrived and started climbing on stage, the audience members yelled at the 'misbehaving teenagers' to get off the stage because the play was scheduled to start soon and the actors were already in garb in the audience! They thought *we* were the actors! :D :D -- Dagonell _________________________________________________________________________ Sca-aethelmearc mailing list Send mail to discussion@aethelmearc.org to post to the list. Visit https://lists.andrew.cmu.edu/mailman/listinfo/sca-aethelmearc for: more info, archives, subscription changes, etc. Please edit your posts to remove excess quotage. _________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 22:50:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293nsoW026674 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:50:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k293nvaL002152; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:50:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k293nNFQ033324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k293nMEV057220; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 20:49:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k28KJGdY050388 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:19:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.140.564dbb17 (15974) for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID101-3e66440f3c33e0; Wed, 08 Mar 2006 15:19:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <030820061922.25251.440F2EFF0003F860000062A322007374789C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> References: <030820061922.25251.440F2EFF0003F860000062A322007374789C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:18:57 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:50:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FA5E5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k293nsoW026674 Status: RO Do you think a saddle blanket this long and richly embellished was only for Royal Portraits? The horse cannot move much with all that fabric around its legs/feet. It would most likely walk. No galloping in this, unless the rider wanted to take a chance that the horse's legs would get tangled and they horse and rider would fall mightily- ( half a ton of horse moving at a fast pace=momentum!) One reason modern sidesaddle riders "evolved" the skirt to the much smaller Safety Apron (with matching breeches underneath it) was because women had been dragged to death when all that fabric of petticoats and skirts got tangled around the saddle pommels and could not release the woman from the galloping / jumping/ bucking horse. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:22 PM, roscelinlimoges@comcast.net wrote: > With what I have read and seen in paintings during the past few years > of my own research; I've only seen women on horses with that cloth > covering. What a saddle blanket! Now, I do want to add that not all > women riders used this type of cloth covering. > > Roscelin > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: tearoses@aol.com >> In both of these paintings, there seems to be a piece of cloth >> covering the >> horse to its ankles underneath the ladies' gowns. Was this a standard >> part of >> saddlery, or was it specific to lady riders? (To protect their >> skirts, maybe?) >> >> Tea Rose, who has ridden horses exactly twice in her life > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 8 23:28:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k294Sm9M028811 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:28:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k294SpDE013076; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:28:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k294SPFZ037779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:28:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k294SMpi086448; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:28:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k294SJvF086317 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:28:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter75.comcast.net ([204.127.197.157]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060309042809m1400gis7qe>; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:28:09 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter75.comcast.net; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:28:08 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Equestrian costuming and other period tack Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:28:08 +0000 Message-Id: <030920060428.8125.440FAED80006754700001FBD22064246139C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 08 Mar 2006 23:28:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FAF03.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sue, I can only find my books on war horses. But nothing on "safeguards". I know I have heard or seen that term before but not sure where right now. If I may ask, what are your sources? Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Sue Clemenger" > Could this be what was called (at least in some 16th c. sources) a > "safeguard?" > --Sue, costuming but not horse, geek... > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 04:24:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k299OeDJ002517 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:24:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k299Ohak006499; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:24:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k299NpO0078693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k299NjBo018149; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:23:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k299NfdO018030 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:23:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k299NY000723.; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:23:35 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:23:34 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:23:26 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k299NfdO018030 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:24:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FF45B.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year under "hunting" and found the thread. The picture is http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> Thanks, Kate. Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long > ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the > upper half copying masculine attire. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 04:42:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k299gHvM004312 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:42:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k299gL6J011212; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:42:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k299ftjJ080239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:41:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k299frke028905; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k299fmDv028822 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.143]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060309094139.XSFO19792.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:41:39 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060309094116.VVSU1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:41:16 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.1/277]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:40:47 +1300 Message-ID: <076d01c6435d$8b04b980$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306.061012.1840.0.LLWatts@juno.com><00c101c641bd$75ff5550$0401010a@michaela> <000601c6423e$a7e5d220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorry for this, testing but also latest projects if you are bored. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:40:29 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:42:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 440FF87D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Kia ora Bjarne, Sorry for the delay a nasty stomache bug made me very ill for the last 48 hours, I'm back to being able to email again! > > Latest projects are: > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/phantom/wishing.htm > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/dracula/2mina.htm > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm > Hi Michaela, > Thanks for posting the links. I enjoyed it very much. Loved your bustle > dresses, and how the h.......did you make that picture with changeable > colours? Thank you Bjarne, I am looking forward to making thse dresses rather than just pinning them together on the form:) The flashing picture for here: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/k/2cleves.htm Was made by me taking a portrait and changing the colours in it to make 6 different pictures, then I made them smaller and used a different image editor to create an "animated gif". I've since simplified the style somewhat and have some progress images here: http://pinkdiamond.livejournal.com/tag/koeln Some of those entries haven't yet made it to my website but they will soon. As to the first part of my initial email.. this one went through immediately but an earlier email went through after it. I don't know if this was just at my end though. Hmmm.. I looked here: http://www.mail-archive.com/h-costume@mail.indra.com/maillist.html And the posts are arriving there in the same order as I'm getting them, so the issue seems to be either the indra server or upstream rather than downstream. It's just frustrating replying to a topic and finding your post lost and then found well after the topic has changed;) One of those things that are notoriously difficult to figure out and then dealw ith.. it doesn't happen too often though:) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 8/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 06:28:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29BScmA028579 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:28:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29BSgCw008053; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:28:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29BRxvB092887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:27:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29BRpYR005473; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:27:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29BRiVs005296 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-168-94.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.168.94]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29BRZ24007660 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:27:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309052033.01d26eb8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 05:24:00 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 06:28:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410116A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Well, if you're interested in the middle of the 16th century, we have a bit of an idea of what was worn on the Mary Rose, which sank in 1545. There were a number of leather jerkins found, as well as some wool garment fragments, some wool flat caps, leather shoes... that sort of thing. The info shouldn't be too hard to track down if you look up the Mary Rose. Cheers, Danielle At 05:13 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Hello All, > >The topic of Pirates at Renaissance events has been breached on >another list, and it has me wondering... > >What would pirates or privateers of the English Renaissance looked like? > >I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks >like. I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what >would everyday privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like >during the Elizabethan era? > >Thanks, > >Kimiko Small >http://www.kimiko1.com >Fresno, CA, USA > >"Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild >Portraying at California's Central Valley Renaissance Faires >Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland > (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret Russell) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 08:50:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Dorhd017919 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:50:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29DovtI023821; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:51:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29DnDQX005955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Dn84t005705; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Dn3FB005651 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 186C226289C for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:48:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:49:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 08:51:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441032C1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is renaissance year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to do them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen they remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white ruff and a black hood. Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with renaissance, but.......... Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:14:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEGAS020632 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEJVl020151; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FDcqW032216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FDckL077404; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29EmuNs055099 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:48:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6C9FE47FEA7 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:48:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c64388$9dffad30$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:49:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:14:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410464C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have some portraits with riding costume like this print, 2 to be more precise. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" >I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year under >"hunting" and found the thread. The picture is > http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> > Thanks, Kate. > > Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark > Trail" by Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long >> ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the >> upper half copying masculine attire. >> >> Kate Bunting >> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:14:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEltW020651 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEpVl026395; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FEJP6032508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FEJNA078089; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29F60jp069914 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:06:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.29]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FHMiF-0005rd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:05:59 -0500 Message-ID: <28612777.1141916759330.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:05:58 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:14:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410466B.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bravo, Bjarne. What a fitting recognition for your wonderful skills and accomplishments! You sound as if you're very tempted. These projects sound like something a bit new for you, a chance to stretch... You COULD tell yourself that garments for exhibition aren't QUITE "costumes"...and so you wouldn't be breaking your promise to yourself not to make any more "costumes"... Keep us posted about what you decide! Best wishes, Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- >From: Bjarne og Leif Drews >Sent: Mar 9, 2006 8:49 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > >Hi, >I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is renaissance >year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to do >them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen they >remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white ruff >and a black hood. >Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who >died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with >renaissance, but.......... >Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, >the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. >Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:14:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEqT5020652 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEuS5027721; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FEWEd032602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FEVjJ078332; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29F6o9I070695 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:06:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m212.in-tch.com [216.166.191.212]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k29Ew1A07609 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:58:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001401c6438c$1a28c600$d4bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:14:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104670.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Oh go for it, Bjarne! You *know* you want to! What a wonderful opportunity! Besides, they don't sound as complicated as some of the wonderful stuff you've shown us over the years, and, heck, you wouldn't have to worry about shipping it overseas, or wierd fitting issues, or anything! --Sue in Montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > Hi, > I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is renaissance > year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to do > them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen they > remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white ruff > and a black hood. > Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who > died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with > renaissance, but.......... > Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, > the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. > Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:14:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FErsg020655 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:14:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FEvB5016717; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:15:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FEgM0032666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FEeoN078521; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:14:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FBZj3075092 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:11:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.220.19]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20060309151124.KQML4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:11:24 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:11:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcZDhTlwhO1Hrk1bT5GdW+geAFE/ewABfXQg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <20060309151124.KQML4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:15:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104671.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. >Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, >the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. >Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting What a tremendous compliment!! It might be worth doing if they pay well enough. Then again, the type of work you do is priceless:) Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 3/8/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:19:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FJHSE020793 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:19:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FJL1D023030; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:19:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FDClX032011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FD7m9076901; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29EjCUj051715 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:45:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1a4.49a38fe2 (15901) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d44103f713bc; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:45:05 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:05 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:19:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104779.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k29FJHSE020793 Status: RO Thanks, Kate. Since I am new to this group, I must have just missed the January discussion of Sidesaddle and clothing. Does anyone know if the person doing that research for a paper on women's equestrian clothing, as mentioned in the archive, has written the paper or is it still in progress? As far as this picture, <> what makes it a riding habit rather than an everyday outfit? Any hints in the photo that I should be seeing but don't? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 9, 2006, at 4:23 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year > under "hunting" and found the thread. The picture is > http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> > Thanks, Kate. > > Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark > Trail" by Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long >> ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the >> upper half copying masculine attire. >> >> Kate Bunting >> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:35:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FZFUH021330 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:35:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FZJZK031049; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:35:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FYrTh035199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:34:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FYpK2098811; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:34:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FYk37098707 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:34:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AE6A6A50037 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:34:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c6438f$00eaa5c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <28612777.1141916759330.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:34:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:35:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104B37.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It is very tempting. The style of this gown is late renaissance. With a farthingale a little bigger than the original in the spanish book. More like a crinoline style. White underskirt is slashed, and overdress has a small "peplum skirt" over the top. Ruff is edged with reticella lace and is not close fitted to the neck, but hangs down a little in the front, but it is starched. Cuffs are reticella lace. What a luck i baught the reproduktion lace from Michelas site in England. Could be very handy here. Style is like the van Dyke portraits or Rubens. She wears a hood wich is curved in each side of the forehead, black edged with lace. The museum is located in the county where this queen lived as a widdow, so this is why they want it. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > Bravo, Bjarne. What a fitting recognition for your wonderful skills and > accomplishments! > You sound as if you're very tempted. > These projects sound like something a bit new for you, a chance to > stretch... > You COULD tell yourself that garments for exhibition aren't QUITE > "costumes"...and so you wouldn't be breaking your promise to yourself not > to make any more "costumes"... > Keep us posted about what you decide! > Best wishes, > Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Bjarne og Leif Drews >>Sent: Mar 9, 2006 8:49 AM >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. >> >>Hi, >>I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is renaissance >>year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to >>do >>them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen >>they >>remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white >>ruff >>and a black hood. >>Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who >>died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with >>renaissance, but.......... >>Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, >>the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. >>Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting >> >>Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >>Leif og Bjarne Drews >>www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:39:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FdvCE021565 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:39:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Fe1xS000840; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FdebH035804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:39:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FdcKX003515; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:39:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FdCxt003092 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:39:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 96890262840 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:39:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:39:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] mitts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:40:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104C51.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a pattern from Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i have small hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich stitches do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and assembled later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? The thumb must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very strong, but wich stitches? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:42:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FgkEN021652 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:42:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Fgodv002506; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FfsQp036149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Ffq1A005803; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FflK0005609 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:41:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k29Ffe016832.; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:41:40 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:41:40 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:41:30 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k29FflK0005609 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:42:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104CFA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Well, the caption says it's a hunting costume, and the coat, neckcloth, hairstyle and hat are copies from those worn by men at that time. A few decades earlier Samuel Pepys commented on the new fashion for ladies' riding outfits with the upper garments "for all the world like mine" but with a long skirt underneath. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> pasovasz@aol.com 09/03/2006 14:45 >>> As far as this picture, <> what makes it a riding habit rather than an everyday outfit? Any hints in the photo that I should be seeing but don't? ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:43:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FhtqD021696 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:43:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FhwCG014937; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:44:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FhUWZ036505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:43:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FhTOv007566; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:43:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FhNXb007449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:43:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:19386 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FHNIU-0005Md-6W for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:43:27 -0600 Message-ID: <344c01c64390$32b5e190$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:43:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:44:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104D3F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Three months? Oww. Is this the portrait of Queen Sophie you'd be doing? http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg (different cap color, but I couldn't find anything else in a quick search) Do you know what the whole dress would look like already? The wedding dress is over 30 years earlier, so it probably wouldn't help... you might have to put in some research time, which would make the 3 months time limit harder. Is this the prince? http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg I have no doubt you could do it if you set your mind to it, Bjarne, but it sounds like a bit of a headache to me! Would they consider allowing more time for it and is the money enough to be tempting? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:46:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FkrHE021773 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:46:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FkuIZ004820; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:46:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FiGXa036593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FiECG008342; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fi8n9008108 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:44:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.bd.6aad3e53 (48552) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:43:40 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:43:39 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:46:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104DF0.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:15:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladyanne@quik.com writes: What a tremendous compliment!! It might be worth doing if they pay well enough. Then again, the type of work you do is priceless:) Exactly! Demand they pay for a competent assistant! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:49:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FnfMq021848 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:49:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FnjRL006181; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:49:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Fn5Cm037126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fn017013318; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fmsuk013111 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:48:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.204.122759c6 (48552) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:48:42 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <204.122759c6.3141a85a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:48:42 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:49:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104E99.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:35:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: The style of this gown is late renaissance. She wears a hood wich is curved in each side of the forehead, black edged with lace. ******************** A "widow's peak". And the Prince's outfit sounds like it might be fun too. I'm sure they dressed him like a little adult, no? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:49:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Fnp7r021862 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:49:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FntDm019233; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:49:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FnFe6037158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FnEJp013594; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fn8UI013463 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D5050A5003A for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:49:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:49:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:49:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104EA3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, the jacket with the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked and all the buttons. At this time when this print was made, women didnt wear tricornes for daily wear, but they wore Fontanges wich are caps with high extended starched laces round the forehead. Also her wig is masculin, a fully bottomed wig with lots of curls, was only worn with this kind of outfit. The only hair shown for ladies this time, was small curls on the forehead just below the fontange. In the back, the hair was hided in a cape. The daily wear uniform for women was the mantua, wich was an open robe with a matching petticoat. Mantua was mostly draped at each hip (lifted up with loops and buttons) Sleaves did have cufs, but these usually was attached by the elbows, where the shift showed. I have seen portraits from this period where women wears a more relaxed style of dress, with t-shaped bodices and loose skirts, wich could be daily wear. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Data-Samtak" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Thanks, Kate. Since I am new to this group, I must have just missed the January discussion of Sidesaddle and clothing. Does anyone know if the person doing that research for a paper on women's equestrian clothing, as mentioned in the archive, has written the paper or is it still in progress? As far as this picture, <> what makes it a riding habit rather than an everyday outfit? Any hints in the photo that I should be seeing but don't? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 9, 2006, at 4:23 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year > under "hunting" and found the thread. The picture is > http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> > Thanks, Kate. > > Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark > Trail" by Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not long >> ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the >> upper half copying masculine attire. >> >> Kate Bunting >> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:50:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FoTia021899 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:50:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FoWkI004582; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:50:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FoFO8037342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:50:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FoEd4014707; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:50:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k29FoALI014659 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:50:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 26277 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2006 15:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.142.33.104 with login) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2006 15:50:09 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309154758.01ddd970@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:49:53 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <344c01c64390$32b5e190$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <344c01c64390$32b5e190$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:50:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104EC8.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 15:43 09/03/2006, you wrote: >Three months? Oww. Is this the portrait of Queen Sophie you'd be doing? >http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg (different cap >color, but I couldn't find anything else in a quick search) >Do you know what the whole dress would look like already? The >wedding dress is over 30 years earlier, so it probably wouldn't >help... you might have to put in some research time, which would >make the 3 months time limit harder. What a complicated ruff! I've never seen anything like that. I am trying really hard to work it out. Am I mad to think it might be two layers of fabric, instead of one - one to make the standard ruff and one to make the doubles inside? >Is this the prince? >http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg > >I have no doubt you could do it if you set your mind to it, Bjarne, >but it sounds like a bit of a headache to me! Would they consider >allowing more time for it and is the money enough to be tempting? > >-E House > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:53:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FrM4t021990 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:53:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FrQpJ008088; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:53:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Fqb9i037650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:52:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FqZxl017150; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:52:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FqVsl016952 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:52:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2f6.3085d2 (48552) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:52:20 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2f6.3085d2.3141a934@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:52:20 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:53:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44104F76.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 10:58:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FwQwg022164 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:58:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29FwU4n010641; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:58:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Fw4Nf038311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:58:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fw34E022868; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav5.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Fvxqp022654 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:58:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:57:53 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:57:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2f6.3085d2.3141a934@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:57:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2006 15:57:53.0435 (UTC) FILETIME=[396CB6B0:01C64392] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:58:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441050A6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It's not as complicated as it looks. Make a ruff with 2 layers. Form a main ruff that has all layers. When that is properly spaced. bring the inside ruff down into points inside the loops of the outter fabric. It's like origami. I can visualize it but may not explain it well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg > > > What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:07:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29G7ExE022451 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:07:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29G7IaB015401; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:07:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G6Grj039362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G6C1A031105; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G64JW030942 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DBA86262896 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:05:59 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002b01c64393$60cdee80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64380$3f3fab90$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><344c01c64390$32b5e190$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.3.4.0.20060309154758.01ddd970@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:06:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:07:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441052B6.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have a photo i took at the museum some time ago, i could post it if you want, but it is a portrait wich hangs very high up, so the angle of the photo is not good, but it gives you an idea. The princes outfit is like a small adult with hat and feathers. Its red and slashed. Anyway just posted the pic for you to see. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sophie.htm Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma > At 15:43 09/03/2006, you wrote: >>Three months? Oww. Is this the portrait of Queen Sophie you'd be doing? >>http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg (different cap color, >>but I couldn't find anything else in a quick search) >>Do you know what the whole dress would look like already? The wedding >>dress is over 30 years earlier, so it probably wouldn't help... you might >>have to put in some research time, which would make the 3 months time >>limit harder. > > > What a complicated ruff! I've never seen anything like that. I am trying > really hard to work it out. Am I mad to think it might be two layers of > fabric, instead of one - one to make the standard ruff and one to make the > doubles inside? > >>Is this the prince? >>http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg >> >>I have no doubt you could do it if you set your mind to it, Bjarne, but it >>sounds like a bit of a headache to me! Would they consider allowing more >>time for it and is the money enough to be tempting? >> >>-E House >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:07:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29G7RJ0022455 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:07:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29G7U98031709; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G6b8D039427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G6aWV031548; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from warspite.concentric.com (warspite.concentric.com [207.155.248.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G6V1e031455 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:06:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: from PURCHASING ([207.67.223.71]) by warspite.concentric.com id LAA07249; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:06:30 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> From: "Julie" To: References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:06:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:07:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441052C2.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The temptation to make a rude pun is almost overwhelming...but I'll resist They would wear what everyone else would wear. There was no particular "uniform" of a pirate. I looked into this when my huibby was giving me grief about dressing up. What we think of as "pirates" is out of period...the great coat, the striped clothes, etc. Darn. My hubby as Captain Jack...hmmm...... Hubby said he'd wear a great coat & tall boots. Tunics are dresses... Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:10:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GA78C022542 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:10:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GAB6m017036; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:10:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G8BxV039673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FsK1w018883; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:54:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29FsDMt018622 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:54:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.66.6942b7e0 (48552) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:53:58 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <66.6942b7e0.3141a996@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:53:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:10:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105363.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: _http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg_ (http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg) I imagined the prince as a boy....like an adolescent. Oh well..... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:14:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GEObf022748 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:14:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GESIg019215; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:14:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G8aZb039809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:08:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G87Rx032839; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:08:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G7XWT032280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:07:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G7Cfn085627 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:07:12 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:07:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:07:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:14:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105464.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides together and then turning them over? I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods for gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational research as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have the gloves. One local university recently obtained some gloves that they want me to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the Elizabethan era. :) Chiara On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: > Hi, > I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a pattern > from > Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i have > small > hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich > stitches > do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and > assembled > later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? The > thumb > must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very strong, > but wich > stitches? > > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:15:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GFj2B022796 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GFnAa011146; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GFJkP040861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:15:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GFD51040447; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GF38d040272 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:15:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A561E262848 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:14:58 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:15:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:15:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441054B5.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thanks Chiara, I think i would like to sew the right sides together and turn, but i really would like to know more, if you have any informations about the stitches i would be very happy :-) I am thinking about you cant sew on the thumbs and then turn, how do you attach these last, and wich stitches do you do for this? Rubbish, off cause i can sew on the tumbs and turn, i am a little confused right now, its the museum dress in my head! No problems then, but do you think backstitching would be ok to use? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts > Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides > together and then turning them over? > > I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods for > gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational research > as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have the > gloves. > > One local university recently obtained some gloves that they want me > to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the > Elizabethan era. :) > > Chiara > > > On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >> Hi, >> I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a pattern >> from >> Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i have >> small >> hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich >> stitches >> do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and >> assembled >> later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? The >> thumb >> must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very strong, >> but wich >> stitches? >> >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > Franchesca Havas > ---------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:15:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GFkbx022798 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GFlRT005276; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29G58eq039188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:05:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G56kW029973; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:05:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29G52AA029784 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.267.7176d13 (15699) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:04:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID51-3d53441052223b6; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:04:50 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-Id: <7d94cd7a9ea31e072ca081bb3d5665e2@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:04:48 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:15:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441054B3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k29GFkbx022798 Status: RO Thank you so much, Bjarne. Such a wealth of knowledge in this group. Thanks to all for sharing. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 9, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like > hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only > used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, the jacket > with the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked and all the > buttons. At this time when this print was made, women didnt wear > tricornes for daily wear, but they wore Fontanges wich are caps with > high extended starched laces round the forehead. Also her wig is > masculin, a fully bottomed wig with lots of curls, was only worn with > this kind of outfit. The only hair shown for ladies this time, was > small curls on the forehead just below the fontange. In the back, the > hair was hided in a cape. > The daily wear uniform for women was the mantua, wich was an open robe > with a matching petticoat. Mantua was mostly draped at each hip > (lifted up with loops and buttons) Sleaves did have cufs, but these > usually was attached by the elbows, where the shift showed. > I have seen portraits from this period where women wears a more > relaxed style of dress, with t-shaped bodices and loose skirts, wich > could be daily wear. > > Bjarne > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Data-Samtak" > > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > > > Thanks, Kate. > > Since I am new to this group, I must have just missed the January > discussion of Sidesaddle and clothing. > > Does anyone know if the person doing that research for a paper on > women's equestrian clothing, as mentioned in the archive, has written > the paper or is it still in progress? > > As far as this picture, > <> what > makes it a riding habit rather than an everyday outfit? Any hints in > the photo that I should be seeing but don't? > > Susan > > "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel > too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark > Trail" by Louis L'Amour > > On Mar 9, 2006, at 4:23 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >> I searched the archive http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/ for this year >> under "hunting" and found the thread. The picture is >> http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg >> >> Kate Bunting >> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> >>>>> pasovasz@aol.com 08/03/2006 23:20 >>> >> Thanks, Kate. >> >> Any one have the link to that print, handy, so I can catch up ? >> >> Susan >> >> "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel >> too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark >> Trail" by Louis L'Amour >> >> On Mar 8, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: >> >>> We discussed a 17th century print of a lady in a riding habit not >>> long >>> ago. It was in the 1660s that ladies began to wear habits with the >>> upper half copying masculine attire. >>> >>> Kate Bunting >>> Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:22:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GM2RU023071 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GM6Q3023333; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GLGEv041826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GLDGr046922; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [207.215.93.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GL6FO046746 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:21:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (66-81-45-78.nocal.dialup.o1.com [66.81.45.78]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id k29GMkk00340 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:22:46 -0800 Message-ID: <004901c64393$5d12bb40$4e2d5142@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <2f6.3085d2.3141a934@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:06:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:22:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410562E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: > > What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! Yes, I've been staring at it and I can't see how it would be possible. The geometry is all off. I suspect this is artistic liscense, not a real garment. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:22:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GMOeR023086 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GMS1G010078; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:22:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GKhi9041713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GKgPa046458; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:20:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GKcQ0046349 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:20:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 81DF5262850 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:20:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004901c64395$6e6552c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <66.6942b7e0.3141a996@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:20:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:22:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105644.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO No worries Albertcat, its not the prince, but the queen you see in the portrait from Rosenborg. I dont have a picture of the prince to share right now, but i know the portrait, its a boy dressed in a red doublet with trunkhoses. All the costume is slashed and the hat wich i dont know how i would make is a tall hat naturally leather colour with red feathers. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > _http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg_ > (http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg) > > > > > > I imagined the prince as a boy....like an adolescent. Oh well..... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:32:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GW7Oq023477 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:32:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GWADp028546; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:32:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GUNjt043474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:30:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GULLW056558; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:30:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GUGN6056473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:30:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 24AFC84A50; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:30:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAIN (unknown [216.110.230.30]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F3284A03 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:30:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:29:41 -0500 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, HTML_60_70=0.027,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:32:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410588B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k29GW7Oq023477 Status: RO Thought some of you who re-enact Victorian and Dickens eras would be interested in the new pattern from Laughing Moon (I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive). It's the Hoops and Bustles package, LM112. Looks like another fabulous addition to this premiere line of patterns. For details you can visit http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_1058.html which will take you to that specific pattern. There's also been a wonderful addition to the Laughing Moon Men's Frock Coat pattern, in that in now includes a single-breasted, as well as the double-breasted frock coat, with the original two vests that were included in the pattern. Again, I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive. You can view that pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_776.html Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:47:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Glieg024063 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:47:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GlmKB003913; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:47:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GkXUB046315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:46:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GkVUt071784; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:46:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GkNvm071577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GSUiJ087201 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:28:30 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:28:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <53364.65.117.156.5.1141921710.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:28:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:47:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105C34.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO So long as you are not using a glover's needle backstitcing is fine. The glovers needle has that three sided cutting edge to it for leather and will cut the thread. For the thumb, you want to put that in first. You can do an overlap seam for that if you wish. That is, place the thumb piece inside the trank of the mitt and sew on the first layer down into the second layer that is the thumb. Are these fabric or leather? Any chance you can send us a thumbnail of what the finished product should look like? Or a museum link of a pair of mitts these were based on? Chiara On Thu, March 9, 2006 10:15 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: > Thanks Chiara, > I think i would like to sew the right sides together and turn, but i > really > would like to know more, if you have any informations about the > stitches i > would be very happy :-) > I am thinking about you cant sew on the thumbs and then turn, how do > you > attach these last, and wich stitches do you do for this? > Rubbish, off cause i can sew on the tumbs and turn, i am a little > confused > right now, its the museum dress in my head! > No problems then, but do you think backstitching would be ok to use? > > Bjarne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts > > >> Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides >> together and then turning them over? >> >> I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods >> for >> gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational >> research >> as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have >> the >> gloves. >> >> One local university recently obtained some gloves that they want >> me >> to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the >> Elizabethan era. :) >> >> Chiara >> >> >> On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >>> Hi, >>> I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a >>> pattern >>> from >>> Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i >>> have >>> small >>> hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich >>> stitches >>> do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and >>> assembled >>> later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? >>> The >>> thumb >>> must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very >>> strong, >>> but wich >>> stitches? >>> >>> >>> Bjarne >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Leif og Bjarne Drews >>> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >>> >>> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> >> Franchesca Havas >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 11:53:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Gr7CY024283 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:53:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29GrBNG006712; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:53:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GjFva046070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29GjBMa070557; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f23.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Gj7ZK070454 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:45:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:43:45 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 16:43:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.81] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:43:45 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2006 16:43:45.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[A209A970:01C64398] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: what do renaissance seamen look like? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 11:53:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44105D77.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg >Well, if you're interested in the middle of the 16th century, we have >a bit of an idea of what was worn on the Mary Rose, which sank in >1545. There were a number of leather jerkins found, as well as some >wool garment fragments, some wool flat caps, leather shoes... that >sort of thing. The info shouldn't be too hard to track down if you >look up the Mary Rose. There are also the excavations from Red Bay, Labrador and the wreck of the San Juan (1565). Although I haven't found documentation on more than the shoes, I'm told that the graves of the Basque seamen had clothes that were excavated. BTW, it is most likely (speaking of shoes) that common seamen were wearing turnshoes like: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOES/redbay5.html. Non-turned shoes, when found, being more expensive possibly denote officers. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 12:13:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HDDrR025072 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:13:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HDG7R016459; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:13:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29HCH03050650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:12:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HC4W6094959; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:12:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HBui5094817 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CDB7F262871 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:11:51 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c6439c$94639070$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com><003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <53364.65.117.156.5.1141921710.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:11:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:13:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410622C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Dhiara, Many thanks for your help. I want to make them in ivory silk taffeta. You can see the design i made here, with colours of embroiderysilks: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm Scroll down to the buttom. I want to make the outer layer in silk taffeta, and a shite silk satin wich is thinner and softer for the lining. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts > So long as you are not using a glover's needle backstitcing is fine. > The glovers needle has that three sided cutting edge to it for > leather and will cut the thread. > > For the thumb, you want to put that in first. You can do an overlap > seam for that if you wish. That is, place the thumb piece inside the > trank of the mitt and sew on the first layer down into the second > layer that is the thumb. > > Are these fabric or leather? > > Any chance you can send us a thumbnail of what the finished product > should look like? Or a museum link of a pair of mitts these were > based on? > > Chiara > > > On Thu, March 9, 2006 10:15 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >> Thanks Chiara, >> I think i would like to sew the right sides together and turn, but i >> really >> would like to know more, if you have any informations about the >> stitches i >> would be very happy :-) >> I am thinking about you cant sew on the thumbs and then turn, how do >> you >> attach these last, and wich stitches do you do for this? >> Rubbish, off cause i can sew on the tumbs and turn, i am a little >> confused >> right now, its the museum dress in my head! >> No problems then, but do you think backstitching would be ok to use? >> >> Bjarne >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" >> To: "Historical Costume" >> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts >> >> >>> Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides >>> together and then turning them over? >>> >>> I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods >>> for >>> gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational >>> research >>> as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have >>> the >>> gloves. >>> >>> One local university recently obtained some gloves that they want >>> me >>> to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the >>> Elizabethan era. :) >>> >>> Chiara >>> >>> >>> On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >>>> Hi, >>>> I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a >>>> pattern >>>> from >>>> Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i >>>> have >>>> small >>>> hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is wich >>>> stitches >>>> do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and >>>> assembled >>>> later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? >>>> The >>>> thumb >>>> must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very >>>> strong, >>>> but wich >>>> stitches? >>>> >>>> >>>> Bjarne >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Leif og Bjarne Drews >>>> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >>>> >>>> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>> >>> >>> Franchesca Havas >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > Franchesca Havas > ---------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 12:22:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HM8pC025464 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:22:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HMCUD020331; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:22:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29HLYKm051944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:21:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HK3v6002643; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:20:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HJtj7002348 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:19:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1389.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.111]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16F4319199 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:00:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:00:05 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern References: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> In-Reply-To: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060309170006.F16F4319199@pelian.kabelfoon.nl> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:22:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44106444.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Somehow I find the hoops and bustles a bit weird looking. I am not sure what it is. Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > Thought some of you who re-enact Victorian and Dickens eras >would be interested in the new pattern from Laughing Moon (I'm just waiting >for my new stock to arrive). It's the Hoops and Bustles package, LM112. >Looks like another fabulous addition to this premiere line of patterns. For >details you can visit http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_1058.html which will >take you to that specific pattern. > > > > There's also been a wonderful addition to the Laughing Moon >Men's Frock Coat pattern, in that in now includes a single-breasted, as well >as the double-breasted frock coat, with the original two vests that were >included in the pattern. Again, I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive. >You can view that pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_776.html > > > >Regards, > >Lorina > >Five Rivers Chapmanry > >purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, >re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. > >519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 12:53:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HrZQA026556 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:53:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29HrcLd000874; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:53:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29HmHqa056000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:48:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HlrFd026244; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:47:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29HlgPo026017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:47:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ches@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29HYF7q092679 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ches@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <12240.65.117.156.5.1141925655.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <000701c6439c$94639070$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c6438f$a2ca2960$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><19542.65.117.156.5.1141920432.squirrel@webmail.io.com><003a01c64394$a42b26b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <53364.65.117.156.5.1141921710.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <000701c6439c$94639070$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts From: "Franchesca" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:53:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44106BA2.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Beautiful as always Bjarne! The lining is attached at the finger tips for gloves. The same would apply here. Attach at the top of the mitt and at the top of the thumb. Then attach it at the cuff. Leave the side seams unattached. Make sure you allow the fabric for the mitt and the lining to hang so that it stretches out first. You do not want something this delicate to have a lininig no longer fit because one or the other stretched out over time. Definitely right sides together on the thumb. :) Chiara On Thu, March 9, 2006 11:11 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: > Dear Dhiara, > Many thanks for your help. > I want to make them in ivory silk taffeta. You can see the design i > made > here, with colours of embroiderysilks: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm > Scroll down to the buttom. > I want to make the outer layer in silk taffeta, and a shite silk > satin wich > is thinner and softer for the lining. > > Bjarne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:28 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts > > >> So long as you are not using a glover's needle backstitcing is >> fine. >> The glovers needle has that three sided cutting edge to it for >> leather and will cut the thread. >> >> For the thumb, you want to put that in first. You can do an >> overlap >> seam for that if you wish. That is, place the thumb piece inside >> the >> trank of the mitt and sew on the first layer down into the second >> layer that is the thumb. >> >> Are these fabric or leather? >> >> Any chance you can send us a thumbnail of what the finished >> product >> should look like? Or a museum link of a pair of mitts these were >> based on? >> >> Chiara >> >> >> On Thu, March 9, 2006 10:15 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >>> Thanks Chiara, >>> I think i would like to sew the right sides together and turn, >>> but i >>> really >>> would like to know more, if you have any informations about the >>> stitches i >>> would be very happy :-) >>> I am thinking about you cant sew on the thumbs and then turn, how >>> do >>> you >>> attach these last, and wich stitches do you do for this? >>> Rubbish, off cause i can sew on the tumbs and turn, i am a little >>> confused >>> right now, its the museum dress in my head! >>> No problems then, but do you think backstitching would be ok to >>> use? >>> >>> Bjarne >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" >>> To: "Historical Costume" >>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] mitts >>> >>> >>>> Are you overlapping the seams or are you sewing the right sides >>>> together and then turning them over? >>>> >>>> I have a one sheet example of stitches used through the periods >>>> for >>>> gloves that I can share with you. It is from observational >>>> research >>>> as I am not able to go to the various overseas museums that have >>>> the >>>> gloves. >>>> >>>> One local university recently obtained some gloves that they >>>> want >>>> me >>>> to come over the catalog for them. I am hoping some are from the >>>> Elizabethan era. :) >>>> >>>> Chiara >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, March 9, 2006 9:39 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews said: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I am working on making mitts with floral embroidery. I use a >>>>> pattern >>>>> from >>>>> Williamsburg. Made a muck up wich fits my hand very nicely, i >>>>> have >>>>> small >>>>> hands, so i guess they would fit a woman two. My question is >>>>> wich >>>>> stitches >>>>> do you use to make these? And is the lining made seperate and >>>>> assembled >>>>> later, or do you make the lining same time as the outer layer? >>>>> The >>>>> thumb >>>>> must be difficult to assemble and the stitches must be very >>>>> strong, >>>>> but wich >>>>> stitches? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bjarne >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Leif og Bjarne Drews >>>>> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >>>>> >>>>> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Franchesca Havas >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> >> Franchesca Havas >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 13:15:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29IFWiJ027345 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:15:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29IFa32010243; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:15:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29IFB8O060307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29IF0rE050274; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:15:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29IEfkC049932 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:14:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B15A296A for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 12:14:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 12:14:50 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:15:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441070C8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like > hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only > used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, the jacket with > the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked and all the buttons. >> http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg >> Does anyone know what portrait this drawing is based on? From what I can determine, Leloir's costume books came out in the mid 1800's. I'd like to see some of his sources, including the ones for this image: http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/47_1693-98.jpg Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 15:26:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29KQ5MK031515 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:26:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29KQ9OF003589; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:26:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29KPF24078432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:25:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29KORvM059645; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:24:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k29KOFXU059391 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:24:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 88592 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2006 20:17:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.142.33.104 with login) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2006 20:17:29 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309201658.01d841c8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:17:35 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" In-Reply-To: <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:26:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44108F61.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 18:14 09/03/2006, you wrote: >Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >>A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations >>like hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this >>was only used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, >>the jacket with the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked >>and all the buttons. > > >>>http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > >Does anyone know what portrait this drawing is based on? From what I >can determine, Leloir's costume books came out in the mid 1800's. >I'd like to see some of his sources, including the ones for this image: > > >http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/47_1693-98.jpg This is one of the series I am talking about, and it is by Bonnart! http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Summer-city-dress-1678_i1344960_.htm?aid=974174 Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 15:39:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Kdwvj032088 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:39:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Ke2N0009994; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Kc4mO080285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:38:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Kbulw070868; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k29Kbk77070655 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:37:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 70558 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2006 20:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.142.33.104 with login) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2006 20:11:06 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309200839.01de18c0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:11:14 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" In-Reply-To: <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:40:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441092A2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 18:14 09/03/2006, you wrote: >Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >>A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations >>like hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this >>was only used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, >>the jacket with the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked >>and all the buttons. > > >>>http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg > >Does anyone know what portrait this drawing is based on? From what I >can determine, Leloir's costume books came out in the mid 1800's. >I'd like to see some of his sources, including the ones for this image: > > >http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/47_1693-98.jpg > > >Dawn I suspect these are redrawn from a series of fashion plates which were published in France in the late 17th century. I have copies of others in a similar style. The artist Bonnart springs to mind, but I don't guarantee anything, as I am currently having a "hot flush" (English version) and am as a consequence in the "brainsaremush" state. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 15:58:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29KwB3i000326 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:58:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29KwFTw019412; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:58:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29KvxUg082342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:57:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29KvZQd086647; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:57:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29IlClP078633 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:47:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A1640360; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:18:12 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.158 ([209.131.80.158] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 9 Mar 2006 13:18:06 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c643a6$22928e60$9e5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> <20060309170006.F16F4319199@pelian.kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:20:23 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:58:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441096E7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO These hoops and bustles are wonderful, Lorena! I have the first one and the last as antiques and you have made them up just as they should be. The last one differs only from mine in that the train part button of mine buttons onto the hem of the main hoop shape. Bravo Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern > Somehow I find the hoops and bustles a bit weird looking. > I am not sure what it is. > > > Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > > > Thought some of you who re-enact Victorian and Dickens eras > >would be interested in the new pattern from Laughing Moon (I'm just waiting > >for my new stock to arrive). It's the Hoops and Bustles package, LM112. > >Looks like another fabulous addition to this premiere line of patterns. For > >details you can visit http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_1058.html which will > >take you to that specific pattern. > > > > > > > > There's also been a wonderful addition to the Laughing Moon > >Men's Frock Coat pattern, in that in now includes a single-breasted, as well > >as the double-breasted frock coat, with the original two vests that were > >included in the pattern. Again, I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive. > >You can view that pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_776.html > > > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Lorina > > > >Five Rivers Chapmanry > > > >purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, > >re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. > > > >519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 15:59:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Kx3rT000357 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:59:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29Kx79m024135; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:59:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29KwjZu082535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:58:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Kwjts087698; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:58:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pqueuea.post.tele.dk (pqueuea.post.tele.dk [193.162.153.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Ktoii085225 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:55:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by pqueuea.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3F6376AB9 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:25:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.225]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3134047FE20 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:24:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001401c643b7$8b65f970$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:25:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:59:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410971B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Dawn, I dont think i have ever seen the portraits made after these prints. But it could be, that they are real fashion prints. There was a series in the 1680ies called Mercure Gallante, wich showed handcoloured fashion prints. I have photographed all they have at the museum of fine arts in Copenhagen, but it is only about 35 prints, not the entire range. In one of my costume books wich is in danish, dont know the english title, it is written by an italian lady called Mila Contini, there is a portrait very like the same style, of Marie Adelaide de Savoye, duchesse of Burgundy. Its painted in the last part of 17th century, red with gold laces. Her large cufs are entirely covered with gold laces and her waistcoat is entirely gold two. Another portrait from Ribeiros Dress in 18th century Europe, page 47 shows Frances Pierrepoint, Countess of Mar, ca. 1715. Her hunting suit is made of a very pale rose colloured outfit, and her trimmings are made of silver bobbin laces. She also has the masculine wig on.+ tricorne under her right arm. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like >> hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only >> used for hunting. The tricorne, her Steinkirke cravate, the jacket with >> the big cuffs, the way the buttonholes are worked and all the buttons. > > >>> http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg >>> > > Does anyone know what portrait this drawing is based on? From what I can > determine, Leloir's costume books came out in the mid 1800's. I'd like to > see some of his sources, including the ones for this image: > > > http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/47_1693-98.jpg > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 17:33:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29MXGP7003182 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:33:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29MXHc6026421; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:33:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29MWWUr096038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:32:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29MWRG1067303; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:32:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29MWLB8067073 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.7f.70c60c2b (3940) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:32:13 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <7f.70c60c2b.314206ec@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:32:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 17:33:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410AD2D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO There's only really one question to answer - do you really want to do the outfits? If you do then go for it, because you'll only regret it afterwards if you don't. And the worst thing would be to end up thinking 'what if I had...'. Well that's what I always tell myself when I take orders for things at short notice, anyway :-D Debbie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 18:28:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29NSTCw004834 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:28:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k29NSWRv013271; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:28:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29NRuZO004092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:27:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29NRoh0010692; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:27:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29N4sOw092830 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:05:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A374DFF02A6; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:00:04 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:05:00 -0800 Message-ID: <002701c643cd$e4c5c200$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <004901c64395$6e6552c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k29N4sOw092830 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:28:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410BA20.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Are you looking for patterns? Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:21 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. No worries Albertcat, its not the prince, but the queen you see in the portrait from Rosenborg. I dont have a picture of the prince to share right now, but i know the portrait, its a boy dressed in a red doublet with trunkhoses. All the costume is slashed and the hat wich i dont know how i would make is a tall hat naturally leather colour with red feathers. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > _http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg_ > (http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg) > > > > > > I imagined the prince as a boy....like an adolescent. Oh well..... > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 19:04:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A04T0P006066 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:04:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A04WO6024959; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:04:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A03nCe011258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:03:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A03iHG045609; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:03:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A03cSp045373 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:03:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.192]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060310000329.NJHA8506.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:03:29 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060310000328.ROLG18564.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:03:28 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.1/278]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:03:31 +1300 Message-ID: <008f01c643d6$10ef2c10$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:03:30 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:04:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410C290.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > A hunting suit like this would have ben worn on special occations like > hunting with the king and queen. Masculine fashion like this was only used > for hunting. I was wondering what your thoughts on this costume were: http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00004YWXG.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg It's the cover of the cd Pavaniglia by The Kings Noyse. It looks very late 17thC or very early 18thC and I would guess they are in costume for some performance, based mostly on her shoulder cloak and ruff and his costume. I'm thinking of something like this or a regular hunting style outfit for a costume I need in April (I'm singing How Would I Play This Part, from The Grand Duke by for a G&S singing competition) and I want something evocative of the period but not a mantua or other general 18thC style. In fact the original costume is very much a Victorian restyling of Swiss/German national costume;) It even has a little jacket worn with it, so this style isn't really too far off the mark and should help establish some character before I even open my mouth. It will be not be completely historically correct as it will be worn over a kilted skirt, but more like a mix of late Victorian and early 18thC. Oh and the character singing the song is an actress. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/278 - Release Date: 9/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 21:04:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A24wZA010434 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:04:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A252Ex032036; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:05:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A1xHC9031224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:59:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A1xCto048016; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:59:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A1x9sl047954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:59:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 6C99384A28; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:59:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAIN (unknown [216.110.230.30]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80916849EC for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:58:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:58:35 -0500 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000401c643e6$379fdac0$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <200603092058.k29KvcVs086691@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2A1x9sl047954 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: New pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:05:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410DECE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Deredere wrote: >Somehow I find the hoops and bustles a bit weird looking. >I am not sure what it is. I'm not sure either, given these are all taken from examples in the pattern-maker's private collection, accompanied by exhaustive research. I'd vouch for all the Laughing Moon patterns. These are the most historically accurate, best engineered patterns on the market. In my opinion, the set the gold standard for others to follow. Kathleen wrote: >These hoops and bustles are wonderful, Lorena! I have the first one and the >last as antiques and you have made them up just as they should be. I feel I should clarify, Kathleen: I am not the creator of these patterns; rather, I am a distributor. I'd love to take the credit, but that goes to JoAnn Peterson of Laughing Moon. I am, however, delighted to have her patterns as part of Five Rivers repertoire. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 21:09:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A29WTx010581 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:09:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A29aWb001085; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:09:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A299D0031965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:09:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A297bB055639; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:09:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A29162055468 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:09:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2e6.2d1b31c (63024) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:08:41 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2e6.2d1b31c.314239a8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:08:40 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:09:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410DFE0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/9/2006 7:47:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl writes: Somehow I find the hoops and bustles a bit weird looking. I am not sure what it is. ***************************** Me too. The only thing I can put my finger on is, the oblong hoop needs a pad at the back to keep it from tipping up in front. The round hoop is a bit small for a petticoat hoop with so many hoops in it. I have period ones this size but they are all cage hoops and the wires start at a little above the knee height. But I like the shape of that pattern. The bustles seem functional....lord knows there were so many contraptions to achieve that silhouette. But there is something alien about them. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:13:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3DTgU012821 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:13:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3DS1p023011; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:13:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3D3Tc039011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3CvNY004861; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:12:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29MaxFm070694 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:37:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8D53AC030E; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:45 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:19:42 -0800 Message-ID: <001d01c643c7$9037b280$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <28612777.1141916759330.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k29MaxFm070694 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:13:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EED8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO These also might be easier because the fit doesn't have to be as fussy as when it's for a live person. Dress forms don't complain. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of ruthanneb@mindspring.com Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Bravo, Bjarne. What a fitting recognition for your wonderful skills and accomplishments! You sound as if you're very tempted. These projects sound like something a bit new for you, a chance to stretch... You COULD tell yourself that garments for exhibition aren't QUITE "costumes"...and so you wouldn't be breaking your promise to yourself not to make any more "costumes"... Keep us posted about what you decide! Best wishes, Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- >From: Bjarne og Leif Drews >Sent: Mar 9, 2006 8:49 AM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > >Hi, >I just got an enquiry from a museum. Because this year it is >renaissance >year, a museum has purchased money to get 2 costumes done. I am asked to do >them. I would make a dress after a portrait of Queen Sophie (the queen they >remade the wedding dress for) - as a widow. A black dress, small white ruff >and a black hood. >Then i should also make a prince outfit for a boy, the chosen prince who >died in 1647. This is rather late, and i dont think it has much to do with >renaissance, but.......... >Oh and i had promised myself from stopping making costumes, and besides, >the outfits has to be finished in about 3 months. .............. >Ah i really dont know, but would be very tempting > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:14:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3E5Eq012850 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3E9JK011619; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3Drje039170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3DqUI005679; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29N2ZsV091237 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:02:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2EA82B03A2; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:57:46 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:02:43 -0800 Message-ID: <002601c643cd$92c812a0$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k29N2ZsV091237 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EF01.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO OK, that makes sense, but what a lot of work! Lovely, though. Gives me an idea for my costume....... Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Becky Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:58 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. It's not as complicated as it looks. Make a ruff with 2 layers. Form a main ruff that has all layers. When that is properly spaced. bring the inside ruff down into points inside the loops of the outter fabric. It's like origami. I can visualize it but may not explain it well. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. > > In a message dated 3/9/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg > > > What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:14:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EDTj012857 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EHZZ001500; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3E73c039232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3E69c005912; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29NW6Y7014631 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:32:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1474336A80 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:29:38 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:29:56 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <2f6.3085d2.3141a934@aol.com> x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE bizarre ruff was : dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EF09.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It looks like 3 layers with one thick layer between two sheer layers -----Original Message----- http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg What a bizzare ruff! A ruff inside a ruff! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:14:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EbGx012871 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EfSx017818; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3EToo039291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3ET1s006262; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A0MCbJ065615 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:22:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060310002205.NRGA4607.mta202-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:05 +1300 Received: from web1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([219.89.183.2]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060310002205.VMUZ16143.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@web1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:05 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.183.2]) by web1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail vG.2.00.00.00 201-2161-108-101-20050407) with ESMTP id <20060310002205.XGBZ420.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:05 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.1/278]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:06 +1300 Message-ID: <009d01c643d8$a96c6cd0$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c64391$06a603e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><4410709A.4050701@reddawn.net> <001401c643b7$8b65f970$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:22:06 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EF21.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > In one of my costume books wich is in danish, dont know the english title, > it is written by an italian lady called Mila Contini, there is a portrait > very like the same style, of Marie Adelaide de Savoye, duchesse of Burgundy. > Its painted in the last part of 17th century, red with gold laces. Her large > cufs are entirely covered with gold laces and her waistcoat is entirely > gold two. That would be Fashion, by Mila Contini, I just had another look through my copy and realised there are in fact a lovely number of images I've really liked over the years. I found a used copy a couple of years ago and bought it as it was one of the first costuming books I got hold of. It was in my school library. Marie is on page 184. One of my favourite gowns is on page 181 (part of a two page image) and it's pretty clearly mourning garb. I'm not keen on the headdress, but the gown is really lovely. Louis XIV receiving Frederick Augustus of Saxony, Louis Silvestre, Versailles Museum. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/278 - Release Date: 9/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:14:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3Ejb5012878 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3EnbY007128; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:14:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3Edvh039344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3Ecwm006412; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:14:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A1E8Xl012362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:14:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2A1E2G9008933 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:14:07 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:17:42 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309154758.01ddd970@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:14:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410EF29.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Looking at this ruff I actually see three layers. One big outer layer, then two ruched together so that one fills the top arches of the large ruff and the other fills the bottom. Of course, all the layers may actually be the same size and you get the rather heart shape of the inner layers as they become bunched within the outer one. Ow! My brain hurts. I can't wait to see what you do with this one Bjarne! Regina > > What a complicated ruff! I've never seen anything like that. I am > trying really hard to work it out. Am I mad to think it might be two > layers of fabric, instead of one - one to make the standard ruff and > one to make the doubles inside? > > >Is this the prince? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 9 22:19:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3JGF0013023 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:19:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A3JJko025250; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:19:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A3DkbE039141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A3DkJ7005570; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k29Mxhe3088979 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:59:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A24029DD029A; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:54:56 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:59:53 -0800 Message-ID: <002501c643cd$2d471e30$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309154758.01ddd970@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:19:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4410F038.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Looking at the ruff, it may be that the painter just "made up" the ruff pattern, so it "kind of" looked like the real ruff. Remember, it's a painting, not a photo, and there is probably a bit of creative license. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:50 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Ruff - was Bjarne's dilemma At 15:43 09/03/2006, you wrote: >Three months? Oww. Is this the portrait of Queen Sophie you'd be >doing? http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a07375wl.jpg (different >cap color, but I couldn't find anything else in a quick search) Do you >know what the whole dress would look like already? The wedding dress >is over 30 years earlier, so it probably wouldn't help... you might >have to put in some research time, which would make the 3 months time >limit harder. What a complicated ruff! I've never seen anything like that. I am trying really hard to work it out. Am I mad to think it might be two layers of fabric, instead of one - one to make the standard ruff and one to make the doubles inside? >Is this the prince? >http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/images/pics/a03034wl.jpg > >I have no doubt you could do it if you set your mind to it, Bjarne, >but it sounds like a bit of a headache to me! Would they consider >allowing more time for it and is the money enough to be tempting? > >-E House > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 02:06:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A76BRU021173 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:06:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A76E6G025068; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:06:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A75pPn070354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A75ltF069372; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:05:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A75hGx069329 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:05:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DA861369A8 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:05:42 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:05:56 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002601c643cd$92c812a0$0400a8c0@bob3pc> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ruff RE: dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:06:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44112566.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO To achieve the look you need 3 layers. Otherwise it will only have the heart frills in the top loops or the bottom. You will need to have excess of the frill material to achieve the desired effect. De -----Original Message----- It's not as complicated as it looks. Make a ruff with 2 layers. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:39:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dtRu008655 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:39:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dxoq022587; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8dYxx090193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dVdS041970; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dR7r041886 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64B1B8FA for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309232943.036d4760@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:30:11 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B5F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 03:18 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Kimiko Small wrote: > >I know what images of George Clifford, the "privateering" Earl looks like. >I know what images of Raleigh, and Drake are like, but what would everyday >privateers, pirates, or even basic seamen look like during the Elizabethan era? > >The Gentlemen of Fortune site gives the best explanation I've seen on the web: > >www.gentlemenoffortune.com > > >Dawn Thanks Dawn. While not the time frame I am looking for, it is very informative, and I've learned a lot. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:39:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8du4a008656 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:39:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dxpG007470; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8dYAD090194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dXTI042007; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dUxw041958 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4472FB8A3 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060310002843.038f52c8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:16 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] New pattern In-Reply-To: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> References: <000501c64396$be2355e0$6400a8c0@MAIN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B5F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:29 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: > There's also been a wonderful addition to the Laughing Moon >Men's Frock Coat pattern, in that in now includes a single-breasted, as well >as the double-breasted frock coat, with the original two vests that were >included in the pattern. Again, I'm just waiting for my new stock to arrive. >You can view that pattern at: http://www.5rivers.org/en-gb/p_776.html Nice coat. Now I will have something for my husband to wear with me, once I get to the Victorian stuff later this year (I will, I will!) Thanks for sharing the new patterns with us. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:39:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dtUZ008654 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:39:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dxk7021476; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8dYPf090195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dWxK041986; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dSpl041901 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DAD5B8CF for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309233018.036c5d70@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:31:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060308231751.01d81210@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060308231751.01d81210@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B5F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 03:20 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >I was just looking at "Vecellio's Book of Costumes"(??) and it has several >seafaring men depicted. I don't imagine pirates would be any different. >It's a Dover book - I may have the title wrong, but the words "Vecellio" >and "Costume" are in the title I'm certain. > >Suzi > >Thanks for the Books of Hours BTW - lovely. Hi Suzi, I have that very book, although I forgot it was on my shelves. Thank you, the image is ... interesting. Now to scan it for my records. And I am glad you enjoyed the Book of Hours. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:40:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8e1Xh008657 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8dxrQ008604; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8dYVG090192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dUv3041940; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dQAc041863 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF5DB7D2 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:11:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B5F.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:06 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >The temptation to make a rude pun is almost overwhelming...but I'll resist > >They would wear what everyone else would wear. There was no particular >"uniform" of a pirate. I looked into this when my huibby was giving me >grief about dressing up. What we think of as "pirates" is out of >period...the great coat, the striped clothes, etc. Darn. My hubby as >Captain Jack...hmmm...... Hubby said he'd wear a great coat & tall boots. >Tunics are dresses... >Julie Hi Julie, Thanks for resisting the pun... I am sure we all can come up with something. This is exactly why I am looking up what they wore, because it was my hunch they wore what everyone else wore, but I have no proof of that, and it is the visual proof I am looking for. I am going to be doing a visual lecture on Costume Myths for our local Ren-faire people. See, we are currently finding a number of people involving themselves at our local Renaissance faires wearing the stereotypical "Pirate" garb, which is a much later time frame. While the faire promoters aren't sure what to do about it (except for one who has embraced it as her faire theme), I am hoping to show people visual images of what exactly they did wear, or at least as much info about it as I can. If they want to ignore it, and continue to wear the Capt'n Jack Sparrow outfits... at least I tried. And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like Capt'n Jack... oye. Enjoy yourselves. ;-) I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed wearing kilts... I really like men in kilts. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 03:40:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8e9q8008715 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A8eDRT010328; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8e5gL090379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8e48F042385; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dQaM041871 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3397B7FD for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309232719.036dd868@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 23:27:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060309052033.01d26eb8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <6.2.3.4.0.20060309052033.01d26eb8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:40:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44113B6D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 03:24 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >Well, if you're interested in the middle of the 16th century, we have a >bit of an idea of what was worn on the Mary Rose, which sank in >1545. There were a number of leather jerkins found, as well as some wool >garment fragments, some wool flat caps, leather shoes... that sort of >thing. The info shouldn't be too hard to track down if you look up the >Mary Rose. > >Cheers, >Danielle Thanks! I found the web site for their display and info, and it was very helpful. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 04:48:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A9mjap022454 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:48:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2A9mlLe009197; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:48:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A9mOeL008872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:48:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A9mLrY087610; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:48:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A9mFqQ087499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:48:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-221-247-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.221.247]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2A9m6Q3017299 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:48:07 +1100 Message-ID: <00be01c64427$bc06e6a0$f7ddf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:48:06 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:48:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44114B7F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO While we're on the topic of Equestrian Costume I came across this fashion plate http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/1859septharpers.jpg from 1859. I was under the impression that women didn't wear hoops or skirt supports (of whatever style was fashionable at the time) when they were riding (as hoops would stand out from the horse's side giving those below a view straight up your skirt and bustles or paniers would get in the way of you sitting on the horse), but it seems difficult to believe there isn't a crinoline under that skirt. Does anybody have an explanation for why she would wear a crinoline with her riding costume? All I can think of is that maybe it's a way to use up the extra length in the riding habit, but the 2 big problems with that are A. all the fullness is on one side and B. it would mean putting a crinoline on underneath your skirts in public. And I'm pretty sure Victorian riding habits were only worn when you planned to be actually riding, so no chance of having one for show and one for actually getting on a horse. I'm stumped, if anybody else can offer insights I'm really curious to know. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 05:25:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAP9nV031111 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:25:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAPDma020232; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:25:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AAOmkX013732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:24:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AAOjuO015906; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:24:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AAOgXW015860 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AF44247FE9A for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:24:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004b01c6442c$e220ad80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <00be01c64427$bc06e6a0$f7ddf5dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:24:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:25:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44115409.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Elizabeth, Cant give you any explanations to this, but i remember i have seen movies where ladies are riding with crinolines two. This is not evidense, i know. On the other hand, when i first time visited V&A, they were selling some old prints. I baught some of them, and one is Queen Anne of Denmark riding in a drum shaped farthingale. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > While we're on the topic of Equestrian Costume I came across this fashion > plate > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/1859septharpers.jpg > from 1859. I was under the impression that women didn't wear hoops or > skirt supports (of whatever style was fashionable at the time) when they > were riding (as hoops would stand out from the horse's side giving those > below a view straight up your skirt and bustles or paniers would get in > the way of you sitting on the horse), but it seems difficult to believe > there isn't a crinoline under that skirt. > Does anybody have an explanation for why she would wear a crinoline with > her riding costume? All I can think of is that maybe it's a way to use up > the extra length in the riding habit, but the 2 big problems with that are > A. all the fullness is on one side and B. it would mean putting a > crinoline on underneath your skirts in public. And I'm pretty sure > Victorian riding habits were only worn when you planned to be actually > riding, so no chance of having one for show and one for actually getting > on a horse. > I'm stumped, if anybody else can offer insights I'm really curious to > know. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 05:33:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAXHEu000749 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAXMHi022692; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8e553090382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8e46K042382; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dTPT041928 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C07DB7FD for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060310001956.038f5558@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:21:56 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441155F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:43 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >There are also the excavations from Red Bay, Labrador and the wreck of the >San Juan (1565). Although I haven't found documentation on more than the >shoes, I'm told that the graves of the Basque seamen had clothes that were >excavated. > >BTW, it is most likely (speaking of shoes) that common seamen were wearing >turnshoes like: >http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOES/redbay5.html. >Non-turned shoes, when found, being more expensive possibly denote officers. > >Marc Thank you Marc for that info. I wasn't able to find much on the clothing of the San Juan, but I have learned a lot anyway. And I do appreciate your information on shoes. It is details such as shoes that make a difference in the full outfit looking right, or looking off. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 05:33:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAXHEw000749 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AAXMHk022692; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A8e5EK090380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8e41n042377; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:40:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2A8dTgH041918 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:39:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C1EB7D2 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:39:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309233155.036de1e8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:04:38 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441155F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 04:17 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Perhaps so, but it begins nearly a hundred years after the close of the >Elizabethan era. > > Sailors of the Elizabethan period, based on period art wear loose > venetians or what willlater be called slops. Some are shown closed at > the bottom some are not. The upper body garments tend to be either close > fitting doublets, or a loose smock sort of jacket referred to in the > period as a cassock. The real obvious indicator of a sailor is the > cap. The most notable ones being thrummed caps. Thrummed caps look in > art like fur. They are made from strands of woll (thrum) being afixed > through the weave of kit caps, not unlike the modern watch cap. > > Good art does exist out there. A number of Dutch maps shows mariner > figures as does the Mariner's Mirror. Actually the Dutch version and the > English version depict some different figures. I think it is just after > the period, but there are the woodcuts of the BArents expeditions as > well. Some art survivies depicting one of Frobisher's trips as > well. There is also the image depicted in Vecellios that was earlier > mentioned. > >Ron Carnegie Hello Ron Thank you for your explanation. I was looking at the Vecellio's woodcut that Suzi mentioned, and couldn't figure out what was going on until I read your info. I know Alcega has a pattern for the cassock, although I don't know if it is the same or similar, but I will look it up. And the thrummed cap gave me a lot to google for (I now understand how to thrum a knitted mitt). I've found a color image of the Mariner's Mirror, then realized I have a B/W copy in one of my books, which is great since the color image is rather small, so details are not really there. The Barents expedition is 1596, so it is period. I just found a decent image online of one of the images. The other one with the polar bear wasn't so clear. It looks like I will have to hunt around some more, but you've given me some great leads. Thank you, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 09:46:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AEkfWE011177 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:46:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AEkjXI010891; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:46:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AEex0P050181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:40:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AEetvu015731; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AEeq6Y015698 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:40:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.84.113.26]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVX00CPN23PSR33@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:40:39 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:40:37 -0500 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <005d01c64450$98dd7300$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309233155.036de1e8@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:46:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44119155.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello, I think Alcega's cassock is a different creature than the sailors cassock. There are a few different article of clothing that use this name, and they differ greatly. Priests wear a long gown that goes by that name, in the 17th century there is an overcoat that is called this. Actually the overcoat ios similar to what i am dexcribing, except it is longer. I am not sure if there are any patternn readily available out there, but it is a rather easy garment to construct. Not sure how to verbally descrip it though! It is very similiar to a period shirt, and can be made with fouir or five pieces, To sleeves cut as long rectangles , with a vurve on the top to fit into the armscye. A front an back cut almost the same (you might angle the neck openng a little higher in back than in the front, and there need to be a least a neck slit ion front). The front and back should be cut with a slight slope at the shoulders (unlike shirts). I would also curve the armscye, as with modern garments or with doublets and things, again differnty from a period shirt. The side seams shoud slope out away from the body to give the slightly belled shape seen in some of the pictures. I would add a standing collar between an inch and three inches tall. The neck opening can be just turned, or a facing can be used. I would clse it with buttons, though I have seen ties used on modren reproductions. I would personally make it of wool, though I have seen reproductions at Jamestown settlement with ties. My favorite reproduction at knotwork buttons made from hemp line! I have also seen these cassocks made with canvas, usually cotton, though historically is should be linen of hemp. Thes were made with the belief that they might have been constructed from sail cloth, a pratice that is documentable for later periods. You can leave the garment plain, or you can trim it. Theonly depictions I have seen of trim on these was a Dutch map, that had various historic explorers around the edges. All of them were depicted in these cassock, which I think unlikely, officers are usually depicted dressed just like landmen gentleman. I think on this map tha artist was using license to makle it clear that they were mariners. Here the trim was apllied as you would guards (around the edges of the body of the garment) and looked like various embroidered or metallic as per their wealth. Like I say I think there is a lot of license there, but I have "guarded" wool cassock with simple wool lace or modernly tape. Makes it a little more interesting. If you can find a pattern for a Elizabethan mandillion, this is a very similiar creature. The mandillion buttons all the way down the sides and sleeves which allows it to be worn in a few different ways depending on warmth desired. They often have pockets as well. Though I have not seen these features in sailor art (actually I might be wrong, I may have seen pockets) the 17th century long cassock must certainly do this so I think it is perfectly plausible that some might have. There is also a sleeved cloak which is a similiar idea, but thatthe sleeves can actually be buttoned to the body to convert a coat into a cape. One last consideration. It is believed by many that these cassocks I am describing, are actuually an outergarment (which the mandillions and 17th century cassocks certainly are). If this is the case there should be a doublet or at least a jerkin worn under it. This is still however a matter of speculation (as of course is the pattern I described) as it is not clear one way or the other from the art. I have a very good source for the thrummed caps by the bye. I have two sources, but their better one is far quicker to deliver and far less expensive than the other! Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? > At 04:17 PM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >>Perhaps so, but it begins nearly a hundred years after the close of the >>Elizabethan era. >> >> Sailors of the Elizabethan period, based on period art wear loose >> venetians or what willlater be called slops. Some are shown closed at >> the bottom some are not. The upper body garments tend to be either close >> fitting doublets, or a loose smock sort of jacket referred to in the >> period as a cassock. The real obvious indicator of a sailor is the cap. >> The most notable ones being thrummed caps. Thrummed caps look in art >> like fur. They are made from strands of woll (thrum) being afixed >> through the weave of kit caps, not unlike the modern watch cap. >> >> Good art does exist out there. A number of Dutch maps shows mariner >> figures as does the Mariner's Mirror. Actually the Dutch version and the >> English version depict some different figures. I think it is just after >> the period, but there are the woodcuts of the BArents expeditions as >> well. Some art survivies depicting one of Frobisher's trips as well. >> There is also the image depicted in Vecellios that was earlier mentioned. >> >>Ron Carnegie > > > Hello Ron > > Thank you for your explanation. I was looking at the Vecellio's woodcut > that Suzi mentioned, and couldn't figure out what was going on until I > read your info. I know Alcega has a pattern for the cassock, although I > don't know if it is the same or similar, but I will look it up. And the > thrummed cap gave me a lot to google for (I now understand how to thrum a > knitted mitt). > > I've found a color image of the Mariner's Mirror, then realized I have a > B/W copy in one of my books, which is great since the color image is > rather small, so details are not really there. The Barents expedition is > 1596, so it is period. I just found a decent image online of one of the > images. The other one with the polar bear wasn't so clear. It looks like I > will have to hunt around some more, but you've given me some great leads. > > Thank you, > > Kimiko > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 09:56:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AEuqf2011682 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:56:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AEuuWl015045; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:56:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AEucOE052831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:56:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AEuajf030355; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:56:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net (vms046pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AEuY2s030320 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:56:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.84.113.26]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IVX0066K2U6LSS6@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:56:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:56:29 -0500 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <007b01c64452$d094af50$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:56:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441193B8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO You want to prove the "pyrate" look wrong you might want to go the other way about. Bring in documentation of historic dress in the golden age of piracy (a period beginning at the earliest in the middle 17th century and usually depicted more around the turn to the 18th). I say this because such research will show that the "pyrate" look when historically inspired at all, is just garish example of the civilan dress of the time. The very argument you are in fact making. Elizabethan pirates probably would even get to be garish! Elizabethan pirates where entirly differnt creatures than the brethren of the coast sorts. The line between honest merchant and pirate were very slim. Beyond that there was no navy in the modern sense. English pirates in the 16th century were more often than not pirates by oppurtunity than prediliction. Honest sailors who had taken advantage of situation that appears, pirated some other poor merchant, and than continued with their previous legal operation. While there were areas in England where acts of piracy regularly occured, these tended to be more of a smuggling and "wreckers" type activities. There really was not a pirate culture as would later flourish in the Caribbean, American and Madagascar ports. Ron Carnegie > > Hi Julie, > > Thanks for resisting the pun... I am sure we all can come up with > something. > > This is exactly why I am looking up what they wore, because it was my > hunch they wore what everyone else wore, but I have no proof of that, and > it is the visual proof I am looking for. I am going to be doing a visual > lecture on Costume Myths for our local Ren-faire people. > > See, we are currently finding a number of people involving themselves at > our local Renaissance faires wearing the stereotypical "Pirate" garb, > which is a much later time frame. While the faire promoters aren't sure > what to do about it (except for one who has embraced it as her faire > theme), I am hoping to show people visual images of what exactly they did > wear, or at least as much info about it as I can. If they want to ignore > it, and continue to wear the Capt'n Jack Sparrow outfits... at least I > tried. > > And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like Capt'n Jack... oye. > Enjoy yourselves. ;-) > I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed wearing kilts... I > really like men in kilts. > > Kimiko > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 10:08:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AF8QEn012175 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:08:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AF8U0a020487; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:08:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AF7i2C054121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:07:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AF7g22040177; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:07:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AF7csm040023 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:07:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sjpaterson@tru.eastlink.ca) Received: from ip03.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.15]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IVX00K2A3AGSOR0@mta01.eastlink.ca> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:06:16 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-137-68-3.eastlink.ca (HELO THIRDFLOOR) ([24.137.68.3]) by ip03.eastlink.ca with SMTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:02:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:02:14 -0400 From: SPaterson Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: Historical Costume Message-id: <002801c64453$9dc9f2f0$6401a8c0@THIRDFLOOR> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:08:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411966E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO During my internship at Jamestown I was asked to research the 'foot of the mariner' for the interpretive costume of the mariners c.1609. I wrote up my research which I did primarily at the Mariner's Museum in Newport News, VA - as I was surveying the dressing of the foot, it may be too narrow a focus but I did list several notable records of both naval & merchant slops chests if that would be of any help. As might my bibliography Sarah Paterson (sca.k.a. Bess Darnley) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 11:16:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AGFvmq017045 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:15:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AGFx97019240; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:16:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AGFP2R063666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:15:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AGFJlB003086; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:15:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AGF6TC002878 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 672F926280D for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:15:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000701c6445d$ce548250$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:15:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Danich kings and their outfits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:16:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411A63F.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi. Just to let you know that Rosenborg Castle has made a fantastic website where you can examine the individual costumes worn by the danish kings. You can turn the pictures round, so you can see every corner of it, and there are patterns and details in PDF files format. Only in danish i am sorry, but i am sure you can find something out. http://www.kongedragter.dk/ Have fun!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 13:33:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AIX589030384 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:33:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AIX6BG006253; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:33:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AIWaqE088791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:32:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AIWONP033047; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:32:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f19.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AIW9TH032854 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:32:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:32:08 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:31:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.186] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603101508.k2AF7h4b040209@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:31:39 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2006 18:32:08.0963 (UTC) FILETIME=[F08FF530:01C64470] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: what do renaissance seamen look like? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:33:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411C662.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >From: Kimiko Small >Thank you Marc for that info. I wasn't able to find much on the clothing of >the San Juan, but I have learned a lot anyway. If you do, please let me know. I've been looking for them for some time now :) I was kinda hoping that someone on the list would see that and it would spark a memory - I know where that is! :) >And I do appreciate your information on shoes. It is details such as shoes >that make a difference in the full outfit looking right, or looking off. My pleasure. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 14:05:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AJ5HXc031677 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:05:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AJ5LKe018146; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:05:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AJ50w8093205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:05:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AJ4tZw064122; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:04:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AJ4oTW063927 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:04:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5BCA296A for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:04:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4411CDE5.6000804@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:05:09 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] jester costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:05:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411CDF1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello all, I've been asked for " someone to make a highly professional & gorgeous Jester costume... authentic in appearance but not using authentic fabrics". If you want this job, please email me privately. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 15:21:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKKtdE003349 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:20:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKKxlO020163; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:21:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AKKV8V003743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:20:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AKKSol032539; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:20:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AHIDIS063862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:18:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-113-204.sonic.net [209.148.113.204]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2AHI96A001998 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:18:13 -0800 Message-ID: <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:18:09 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:21:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411DFAC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > See, we are currently finding a number of people involving themselves at > our local Renaissance faires wearing the stereotypical "Pirate" garb, > which is a much later time frame. As my father (the final owner of the long-lived family parrot, handed down from his grandfather; which grandfather BTW ran away to sea to as a cabin boy and came back after one voyage swearing he'd never be a sailor again), says: "Did you ever think about what the back of Long John Silver's coat looked like?" Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 15:24:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKO4S3003463 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:24:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKO9QY021492; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:24:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AKNuFb004341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:23:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AKNhKK035785; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:23:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AJp9Sl003929 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B33147FE95 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:51:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001e01c6447c$066d2ed0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4411CDE5.6000804@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] jester costume Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:51:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:24:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411E069.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi and sorry for my ignorance, what is a Jester Costume? Bad dictionary here! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: [h-cost] jester costume > Hello all, > > I've been asked for " someone to make a highly professional & gorgeous > Jester costume... authentic in appearance but not using authentic > fabrics". > > If you want this job, please email me privately. > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 15:52:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKquRl005088 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:52:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AKr0uE001056; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:53:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AKqOlY010153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:52:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AKpuMI062760; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AKpjFK062458 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:51:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250BAA4143 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:51:29 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4411E6EB.3060300@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:51:55 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] jester costume References: <4411CDE5.6000804@reddawn.net> <001e01c6447c$066d2ed0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001e01c6447c$066d2ed0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:53:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411E72C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi and sorry for my ignorance, what is a Jester Costume? > Bad dictionary here! > > Bjarne Something like this: http://images.joke.co.uk/images/products/r15426-lge.jpg Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 16:11:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ALBDBJ006319 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:11:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ALBHH7008869; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:11:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ALAnNO013137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:10:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ALAheX081180; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:10:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ALAXQI081020 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:10:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FHosZ0eRr-00026h; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:32 -0500 Message-ID: <004701c64487$11261520$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] image help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:11:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411EB75.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2ALBDBJ006319 Status: RO A while back, I scanned a ladies' wrapper image out of a Delineator magazine to work on. I put it in a file for Nov. 1897. The original color on the image was only printed in blue. I wanted to try to paint the image for the missing colors. Last week, I worked on it for a complete day and threw my back out while working. I finished the image today, and went to look in the magazine for the description and found out that the image isn't from the Nov. issue. I believe it must be from somewhere in the 1896-1898 issues of the magazine. I have checked all my issues and can't locate it. If you have Delineator magazines from this period, would you please check and see if you have this image in it. I am so upset that I put this much work into an image and can't locate the issue of the magazine that it is from. I have put a copy of the image online at: www.costumegallery.com/1897/dress3med.jpg Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 17:25:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMPmY6010409 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:25:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMPqBo004683; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:25:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMPQnA022878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:25:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMPLX2047452; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:25:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.192.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMP4ab047175 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter79.comcast.net ([204.127.197.179]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060310222458m1200mgk5ae>; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:24:58 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter79.comcast.net; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:24:56 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danich kings and their outfits Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:24:56 +0000 Message-Id: <031020062224.25574.4411FCB7000B96D9000063E622007610649C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:25:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4411FCF0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO What a wonderful website. This is when I wish I need knew how to speak my great grandfather's native language. He was from Copenhagen. Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Hi. > Just to let you know that Rosenborg Castle has made a fantastic website > where you can examine the individual costumes worn by the danish kings. You > can turn the pictures round, so you can see every corner of it, and there > are patterns and details in PDF files format. > Only in danish i am sorry, but i am sure you can find something out. > http://www.kongedragter.dk/ > Have fun!! > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 17:44:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMi4Ek011833 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:44:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMi8i6009901; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:44:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMhtjq025524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:43:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMhmkU063316; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:43:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net (smtp4.suscom.net [64.78.119.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMhgAk063087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC25715005D for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 03063-01-4 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:43:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from Stuckis (ip21.77.78.64.suscom.net [64.78.77.21]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B7ADE15005F for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:43:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:43:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:44:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44120138.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > As my father (the final owner of the long-lived family parrot, handed down > from his grandfather; which grandfather BTW ran away to sea to as a cabin > boy and came back after one voyage swearing he'd never be a sailor again), > says: > > "Did you ever think about what the back of Long John Silver's coat looked > like?" > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com Ewwww.....I've seen the bombs my parrot can drop. Personally, I keep my parrot off my shoulder, because he's easily spooked, and I've grown fond of my earlobes and eyeballs. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 17:46:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMk9NE011925 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:46:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMkDqj027995; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:46:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMjxvM025792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:45:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMjwX5065020; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:45:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fallback.suscom.net (fallback.suscom.net [64.78.119.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMjsZc064891 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:45:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (fallback [127.0.0.1]) by fallback.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E347D7928B2 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:41:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from fallback.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fallback.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04794-09 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:41:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net (smtp4.suscom.net [64.78.119.247]) by fallback.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C0E79289E for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:41:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CA415005C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02611-01-9 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from Stuckis (ip21.77.78.64.suscom.net [64.78.77.21]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C172150059 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009c01c64493$db5c2c10$154d4e40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com><00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:42:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:46:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441201B5.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like Capt'n Jack... oye. > Enjoy yourselves. ;-) > I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed wearing kilts... I > really like men in kilts. > > Kimiko Last week's People magazine had a photo of Johnny Depp, taken on the set of the new POtC movie. He was shirtless...rarr. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 17:50:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMoG7I012100 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:50:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2AMoK3x011544; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:50:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMo33g026292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMnvnD068272; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2AMnlBm068106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:49:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-221.sonic.net [209.148.114.221]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2AMnh9h021360 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:49:45 -0800 Message-ID: <44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:49:43 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com> <00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> In-Reply-To: <00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:50:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441202AC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ours (a Mexican redhead creatively named Polly) had a habit of putting his head down to be scratched and then taking a good bite out of the person who petted him, if they weren't fast enough. Fran > > Ewwww.....I've seen the bombs my parrot can drop. > > Personally, I keep my parrot off my shoulder, because he's easily > spooked, and I've grown fond of my earlobes and eyeballs. > > Dianne > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 18:29:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ANTXfl014804 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:29:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ANTbak021440; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:29:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ANT3xU031318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:29:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ANSwWh001703; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:29:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ANSfwH001541 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:28:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 10C3147FE48 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:28:34 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c6449a$5e2408b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4411CDE5.6000804@reddawn.net><001e01c6447c$066d2ed0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4411E6EB.3060300@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] jester costume Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:28:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:29:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44120BE1.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ah, i see, well thanks Dawn, not because i was interrested, but because i was currious to se what kind of outfit it would be. I think it could be fun to make one, but you know, embroidery is my passion! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] jester costume > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Hi and sorry for my ignorance, what is a Jester Costume? >> Bad dictionary here! >> >> Bjarne > > Something like this: > > > http://images.joke.co.uk/images/products/r15426-lge.jpg > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 19:00:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B00aG6016547 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:00:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B00ekH029742; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:00:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B00Bt1035791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:00:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B000us031132; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:00:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ANxd08030946 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:59:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B0204262822 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:59:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c6449e$b9db33f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <031020062224.25574.4411FCB7000B96D9000063E622007610649C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danich kings and their outfits Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:59:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:00:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44121328.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ah, i must say, its a small world then, how bold of your great grandfather, to have the gutss to leave old Denmark. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danich kings and their outfits > What a wonderful website. This is when I wish I need knew how to speak my > great grandfather's native language. He was from Copenhagen. > > Roscelin > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >> Hi. >> Just to let you know that Rosenborg Castle has made a fantastic website >> where you can examine the individual costumes worn by the danish kings. >> You >> can turn the pictures round, so you can see every corner of it, and there >> are patterns and details in PDF files format. >> Only in danish i am sorry, but i am sure you can find something out. >> http://www.kongedragter.dk/ >> Have fun!! >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 19:03:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B03TN0016651 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:03:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B03YeB030653; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:03:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B02xRD036082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:03:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B02x5U033700; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:02:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B02txu033648 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 66423262808 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:02:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c6449f$2f3d6780$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:03:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] renaissance seamen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:03:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441213D6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi apropos this topic. If you visited the danish site with the kings costumes, the costume wich is shown to the Chr. IV it is a doublet with a falling collar from about 1st part of 17th century. Actually this doublet, the king wore on board a ship at a battle. He was wounded and therefore they kept the costume. So you could say its a sailor outfit from 17th century. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 19:09:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B09ZuK016848 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:09:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B09dxB032195; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:09:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B09Pse036898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:09:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B09NZp039140; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:09:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B09J4x039058 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:09:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e7.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.231]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 33561A50008 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:09:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com><00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> <44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:09:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:09:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44121543.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, yes I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, we had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall feathers on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and i could stick in my finger and pet it . After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i thoaght) but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard you cant imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i had pet before lunch. I never forget that bird................ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? > Ours (a Mexican redhead creatively named Polly) had a habit of putting his > head down to be scratched and then taking a good bite out of the person > who petted him, if they weren't fast enough. > > Fran > >> >> Ewwww.....I've seen the bombs my parrot can drop. >> >> Personally, I keep my parrot off my shoulder, because he's easily >> spooked, and I've grown fond of my earlobes and eyeballs. >> >> Dianne >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 20:33:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B1X7Wd022153 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:33:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B1XBmZ022117; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:33:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B1WbPI047289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:32:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B1WZQL003871; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B1WUQO003764 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:32:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.23e.85d2ea5 (16087) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID104-3ed7441228a6341; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:32:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:32:20 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:33:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441228D7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2B1X7Wd022153 Status: RO Thanks, Jean. Makes sense. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 10, 2006, at 4:29 PM, Jean Waddie wrote: > Susan Data-Samtak wrote > snip >> >> I've also heard that many of the "conventions" followed by sidesaddle >> riders today, using english style sidesaddles, go back to Victorian >> times when so much of life was codified. One example that was >> pointed out to me: black gloves are appropriate to use for US Rev War >> impressions, but definitely not for US Civil War, because Victorians >> used black gloves as part of their mourning attire and "A Lady would >> not be riding if she were in mourning. A Lady would stay at home, or >> be driven in a carriage." Can anyone confirm such a statement? >> > snip > > My impression is that Ladies rode for exercise and pleasure, rather > than to get from A to B, therefore it is not something one would do > while in mourning. > > Jean > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 20:33:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B1Xtv1022239 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:33:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B1Xx6H021958; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:34:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B1Xla0047414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:33:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B1Xk6h004736; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:33:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B1XgIq004685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:33:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-113-190.sonic.net [209.148.113.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2B1Xbch013877 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:33:40 -0800 Message-ID: <441228E2.2040603@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:33:22 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com><00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis> <44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com> <002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:34:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44122907.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It was probably the same bird. The way Polly got people to pet him/her (we never knew which) was to make it a surprise attack. Sometimes he bit, sometimes not. He/she was a great bird though. Fran Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, yes > I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, > we had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. > Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall > feathers on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and > i could stick in my finger and pet it . > After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i > thoaght) but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard > you cant imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i > had pet before lunch. > I never forget that bird................ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 21:35:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B2ZkOl024259 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B2ZogH008047; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B2ZTD7053450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:35:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B2ZScR053932; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:35:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B2ZPtc053807 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:35:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from picmajik@aol.com) Received: from ibm60aec.bellsouth.net ([68.19.26.59]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060311023520.XKDH27444.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm60aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:20 -0500 Received: from debra ([68.19.26.59]) by ibm60aec.bellsouth.net with SMTP id <20060311023519.YJIU1931.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@debra> for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:19 -0500 From: "Debra" To: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 237 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:35:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44123786.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne, thank you for that wonderful link. My great-grandfather's family (Sorensen) was also from Denmark and I'm finally doing some genealogy research with an aunt. I also wanted to thank you for sharing your beautiful needlework and costumes with us. Having the historic settings just sets off the clothing so well. I wish I had your patience for the embroidery work. Debra in Georgia, USA -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Hi. > Just to let you know that Rosenborg Castle has made a fantastic website > where you can examine the individual costumes worn by the danish kings. You > can turn the pictures round, so you can see every corner of it, and there > are patterns and details in PDF files format. > Only in danish i am sorry, but i am sure you can find something out. > http://www.kongedragter.dk/ > Have fun!! > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 237 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 23:10:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B4AYqZ002201 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:10:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B4AWMO005842; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:10:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B49jWX063401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B49ifU024810; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B49fbU024768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.12.9/Submit) id k2B49fgw024767 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:09:41 -0700 From: Mark To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] jester costume Message-ID: <20060311040941.GA20189@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:10:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44124DB8.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO [Please reply privately, as this person is not on the mailing list.] A friend of mine send me your e-mail about the Jester costume. I am a professional costumer & specialize in Customized Historic Costuming (mostly 1500's upper - 1900's). I am interested to know more about the project. Can you give me more details. Thank you. Mark D. Lakowske Master Oliver Higgins, Personal Tailor to their Majesties and Royal Court Minnesota Renaissance Festival - Royal Court Fabric of Time - Period Design Customized Historical Costuming http://www.myspace.com/fabricoftimeperioddesign _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 10 23:28:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B4S3Yh004218 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:28:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B4S6Mn011436; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:28:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B4Rolc065282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:27:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B4RnDX038185; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:27:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B4Rj4E038143 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:27:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.251.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.251] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FHvhg-00033d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:27:45 -0500 Message-ID: <44125F8E.80005@faucet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:26:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff RE: dilemma ahhhhhhhhhhh. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:28:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441251D6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO otsisto wrote: > To achieve the look you need 3 layers. Otherwise it will only have the heart > frills in the top loops or the bottom. > You will need to have excess of the frill material to achieve the desired > effect. I can do it in paper with two layers that are the same length. As the original poster of the two-layer solution suggested (sorry, I can't remember who it was), you just make figure-eights as usual with both layers, then in each loop, bend the inner layer into the little heart shape. The inner layer on the top loop of each figure eight will be the outer layer on the adjacent bottom loop. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 01:32:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B6WZJS012910 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:32:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2B6WbaY010229; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:32:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B6WDFw082065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:32:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2B6W6hZ029726; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:32:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.178.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2B6W2HJ029669 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:32:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52305 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2006 06:31:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=yU43dxOSbk6ZqPYnHZD8Izmw+kOhLqH2m3jd+UoryJ15x7b1jZ405gKg0lT+w3jWqe8czvJMbObv9Hx8Ou7z7tl8lbjZexmraSG6lO7MBvx6sptHIkm0Dd2iIUdCEktrJlYAnGbvxIdyXQyH3rqtstHnmJyp1HXneAwZ5ryD2ns= ; Message-ID: <20060311063157.52303.qmail@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.35] by web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:31:57 PST Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:31:57 -0800 (PST) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <009c01c64493$db5c2c10$154d4e40@Stuckis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:32:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44126F05.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO hmmmm....how about Cap'n Jack IN a kilt?????? ultimate rowwhhh!double oye! melody --- Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > > > And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like > Capt'n Jack... oye. > > Enjoy yourselves. ;-) > > I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed > wearing kilts... I > > really like men in kilts. > > > > Kimiko > > Last week's People magazine had a photo of Johnny > Depp, taken on the set of > the new POtC movie. He was shirtless...rarr. > > Dianne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 05:08:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BA8g4W016101 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:08:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BA8hgU029779; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:08:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BA8EHq006279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ALUuwX000724; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ALUnPQ000546 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FHpBs-000GSQ-6d for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:30:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:29:20 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:08:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412A1AB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Susan Data-Samtak wrote snip > > I've also heard that many of the "conventions" followed by sidesaddle >riders today, using english style sidesaddles, go back to Victorian >times when so much of life was codified. One example that was pointed >out to me: black gloves are appropriate to use for US Rev War >impressions, but definitely not for US Civil War, because Victorians >used black gloves as part of their mourning attire and "A Lady would >not be riding if she were in mourning. A Lady would stay at home, or >be driven in a carriage." Can anyone confirm such a statement? > snip My impression is that Ladies rode for exercise and pleasure, rather than to get from A to B, therefore it is not something one would do while in mourning. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 05:38:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAcSl9019174 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:38:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAcWJp003282; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:38:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BAbxVe010286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:37:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAbvpe099198; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:37:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAbpDJ099147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:37:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 30199 invoked by uid 507); 11 Mar 2006 21:37:49 +1100 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 11 Mar 2006 21:37:49 +1100 Message-ID: <084e01c644f7$d235cd30$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com><00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis><44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com> <002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birds Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:37:29 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:38:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412A8A8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sounds like a Galah: galah.galahs.com.au/content/php/article016.php Can't say I've ever met an Australian parrot that's easy to deal with. Our old neighbours had a Sulpher Crested Cockatoo who would 'stage whisper' in the middle of the night, too many times we thought someone had broken in! It would also shriek late at night too. We ended up spraying it with our hose when it shrieked. They're quite clever, so eventually it got the hint. My parents had wild parrots eat their wooden pergola and their geranium bed, and the mess the local cockatoos leave of our flowering eucalypts has to be seen to be believed - they just rip all the flowers off the trees and drop them to the ground. The one that was friendly must have been very tame! We're all fairly wary (or is it scared) of them over here. But they're very pretty. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > Hi, yes > I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, we > had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. > Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall feathers > on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and i could > stick in my finger and pet it . > After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i thoaght) > but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard you cant > imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i had pet > before lunch. > I never forget that bird................ > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 05:53:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BArSsa020488 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:53:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAr0Pl006438; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:53:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BAqfVx011508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:52:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAqZHf007869; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:52:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAqV5p007819 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:52:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 819EC339D8 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:52:30 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:52:31 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:53:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412AC0C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I wonder how common Sorenson is. I know of many in Minnesota and a few in Missouri. Interestingly, in trying to search for the name Tias, I was told to try Denmark. As yet this seemingly obscure surname doesn't seem to be Danish. Doesn't seem to be any nationality.:P And speaking of Danish, Has anyone made Danish lace and is there a recommended book on how to do it? De -----Original Message----- (snip) My great-grandfather's family (Sorensen) was also from Denmark and I'm finally doing some genealogy research with an aunt. (snip) Debra in Georgia, USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 05:57:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAvVVU021232 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:57:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BAva3g007358; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:57:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BAvNam011859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAvNQF010390; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BAvJeb010338 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:57:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e2.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.226]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B9B9C47FEA7 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:57:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002501c644fa$91b7ea60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603091549.k29Fn11k013332@net.indra.com> <00f201c64393$6be7e190$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.1.2.0.20060309200513.038e8ab0@64.87.54.245> <4411B4D1.2020809@lavoltapress.com><00af01c64494$0e48f9f0$154d4e40@Stuckis><44120287.3030200@lavoltapress.com><002d01c644a0$13c4ab70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <084e01c644f7$d235cd30$0202a8c0@mycomputer> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birds Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:57:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:57:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412AD20.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, The best parrot i know is a grey Jaco parrot. They are African. An ex boyfriend of mine was a cirkus artist, and his house was full of parrots, snakes and turtles. He even had some rare chinese mandarin ducks in the garden pond. When i lived with him, i got quite good friends with Jaco, the african parrot. I could even take him with me outside sitting on my shoulder, and he would´nt fly away. He also learned a few words with my voice, he always said Jaco - Juhuuuuuu when i arrived home to him. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birds > Sounds like a Galah: > > galah.galahs.com.au/content/php/article016.php > > Can't say I've ever met an Australian parrot that's easy to deal with. > > Our old neighbours had a Sulpher Crested Cockatoo who would 'stage > whisper' > in the middle of the night, too many times we thought someone had broken > in! > It would also shriek late at night too. We ended up spraying it with our > hose when it shrieked. They're quite clever, so eventually it got the > hint. > My parents had wild parrots eat their wooden pergola and their geranium > bed, > and the mess the local cockatoos leave of our flowering eucalypts has to > be > seen to be believed - they just rip all the flowers off the trees and drop > them to the ground. > > The one that was friendly must have been very tame! We're all fairly wary > (or is it scared) of them over here. But they're very pretty. > > Glenda. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> Hi, yes >> I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, >> we >> had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. >> Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall >> feathers >> on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and i could >> stick in my finger and pet it . >> After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i thoaght) >> but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard you cant >> imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i had pet >> before lunch. >> I never forget that bird................ >> >> Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 06:01:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BB1O0N022501 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:01:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BB1QkI008187; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:01:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BB0uUB012118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:00:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BB0pKa012244; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:00:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BB0jpu012190 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:00:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A5C933885 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:00:45 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:00:46 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <44125F8E.80005@faucet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: layers still: Ruff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:01:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412AE06.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO But from the picture, the inner "heart" piece looks to be of a lighter weight then the surrounding loop which is why I believe that it is 3 layers and not two. De -----Original Message----- I can do it in paper with two layers that are the same length. As the original poster of the two-layer solution suggested (sorry, I can't remember who it was), you just make figure-eights as usual with both layers, then in each loop, bend the inner layer into the little heart shape. The inner layer on the top loop of each figure eight will be the outer layer on the adjacent bottom loop. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 06:09:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BB9EaA025594 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:09:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BB8nAP009797; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:09:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BB8Rlc012799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BB8NbB016694; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:08:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BB8JOm016644 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55e2.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.226]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8947647FE6D for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:08:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002801c644fc$232c9710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:08:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:09:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412AFC1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi De, Sorensen would be Sørensen in danish. It is rather common with the name Petersen, Nielsen, Jensen and so on. It is the first name of a person with sen in the end. Sen means son. Sørens son, Henriks son and so on. Tias is a rare name, dont you think it could have ben a name someone had buyed? Danish laces ah yes, i have many experiments with these The danish laces are called Tønder laces, after a city in the south of Jutland. In this county there used to live thousinds of lacemakers back in 18th century, and there was an industry since the 17th century and documentation also that it was made there in 16th century. They always made laces after the fashion, f.instance when Arras laces was fashionable, they made Arras, Lille in fashion, they made Lille and so on. The laces most people think about today, when thinking Tønder laces, are tulle ground laces with floral patterns. These were made from end of 18th century till well into the 20th century. One of the best books about some danish patterns would be: Johanne Nyrup Larsen: Knipling efter tegning. (Lace made from drawings) Inge Wind Skovgaard: Tønderkniplinger I- and II. The last 30 years the lacemaking has become a renaissance here, many young people wants to learn. I am afraid that you will have some troubble in finding english books on the subjekt but if you are interrested, i am willing to send you some patterns if you like. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + >I wonder how common Sorenson is. I know of many in Minnesota and a few in > Missouri. > Interestingly, in trying to search for the name Tias, I was told to try > Denmark. As yet this seemingly obscure surname doesn't seem to be Danish. > Doesn't seem to be any nationality.:P > > And speaking of Danish, Has anyone made Danish lace and is there a > recommended book on how to do it? > > De > > -----Original Message----- > (snip) > My great-grandfather's family > (Sorensen) was also from Denmark and I'm finally doing some genealogy > research with an aunt. > (snip) > Debra in Georgia, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 09:09:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BE9uKk031270 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:09:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BE9vb7001133; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:10:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BE9RhA043101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:09:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BE9Ntp040799; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.176.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2BBkvsq042073 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:46:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 60604 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2006 11:46:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=q3aD6ZecIW+4XyS0nOIu8VGMhT9pN0O8OoynDEDXSrxHgtX35Ynt7ZxSoZ3uWDRolQPR5iuV4gCPQsGL4ZBMLNCN2lU3OsZfbyv4ZIEBDQ/c6eBxBlXUly1sLHJllLqTuovCYMeERhDJIdK3EREeVjNdCa+dSrLb1Jrt+9xWnkM= ; Message-ID: <20060311114651.60602.qmail@web25914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [87.244.69.160] by web25914.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:46:51 GMT Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:46:51 +0000 (GMT) From: julian wilson To: Bjarne og Leif Drews In-Reply-To: <002801c644fc$232c9710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Burano's historic lace museums & Venice's "Historic Costumiers" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:10:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412DA35.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Sorensen would be Sørensen in danish. SNIPPAGE Danish laces ah yes, i have many experiments with these MUCH SNIPPAGE Comment Dear Bjarne, your e-mail header "Sorensen" - is not about a subjects which I'd normally spend time - the lace being a section of "costume history" about which I know very little. However,....... Burano's Lace Shops and Museums For the future, - if you ever decide to visit Venice on holiday, - the little island of BURANO, in the Venetian Lagoon, - is still - [and was for centuries] - a community of lacemaking Families. The entire village main street is lined with Family-owned shops devoted mainly to Lace, with some embroidery, - and every single one Sally and I entered this summer on our afternoon-long visit to the island, - has it's own little Museum Display of Lacework created just by that Family in the past. The exhibits are all preserved under glass, and generally hanging on the walls in an area specially set-aside at the back of each shop. Never have I seen so much historic lace and embroidery gathered together in such a small location - it's only a small island, and only now supports one village; - though at the height of it's lacemaking days, the island is said to have had thousands of lacemakers in the much-larger historic Population. From what I recall of the translated notices on the exhibits, - the Venetian lacemaking industry really began in Burano during the early 16th Century, when the Serene Republic was just past the peak of it's greatest political and military Power, and had begun it's long, slow descent into decadence. If you ever go to Venice, - with your particular interests, - Burano would really be worth a leisurely visit. Historic Costumers in Venice: - Also, with your particular interests, - it might be worth noting that Venice itself is home to a significant number of small, Family-run, Historic Costumiers, They originally came into being to "service" the touristic demand for "Carnival" costumes, - but have since branched-out into costuming for Film-makers and for Museums. Sally and I visited several of them - and came-away from those visits suffering "sensory overload" from all of the wonderful "historic outfits" which were displayed for us to see. Yours in Service, Matthew ["Messire Matthew Baker", Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: Motto - "Si vis pacem, para bellum" (Trans:-"if you wish for Peace, prepare for War") ] aka. - Julian Wilson, - late-medieval Re-enactor; Herald, Historian, & Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the Island of "olde" Jersey's only mediæval living-history Group] Meet us at < www.dukesleopards.org >" [input] - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online search now --------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 10:51:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BFpDuK002255 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:51:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BFpHOd029191; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:51:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BFoo6d053795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:50:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BFolEQ011097; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BFoiMZ011073 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:50:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm29.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C750E40399 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:50:43 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm29 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060311075043.E21581F3@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:50:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EEvHTiRtynwEAAAAB,164be5643ae6c2f6817400ad4dff8abd X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:51:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412F1F5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Would this be the portrait, Bjarne? http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/paintings/1700/bourgogne.jpg And a rather lovely doll, modelled after this portrait: http://www.finavondolls.com/collection/doll.php/10 Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BGL6DZ003181 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:21:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BGLA0F005487; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:21:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BGKwUx056191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:20:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BGKub5031776; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:20:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BGKrE8031723 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:20:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A958247FE85 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:20:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001901c64527$c8f0c060$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:20:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] english rosenborg X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:21:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412F8F6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I am so sorry, they did have an english version with the danish kings outfits: http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/v1/person.asp?PersonID=9&countryID=2&PersonTypeID=1 Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 11:38:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BGcodc003712 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:38:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BGcswf010940; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:38:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BGccLI057595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:38:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BGcbN0044385; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:38:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BGcWRw044317 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C68CA262836 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:38:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002901c6452a$44ddb000$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060311075043.E21581F3@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:38:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:38:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4412FD1E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Joannah, Yes this was the portrait i ment from the italian costume book. That doll maker is incredible, what detail, and the likeness of the persons is incredible, thanks for posting the link.. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > Would this be the portrait, Bjarne? > > http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/paintings/1700/bourgogne.jpg > > And a rather lovely doll, modelled after this portrait: > > http://www.finavondolls.com/collection/doll.php/10 > > Joannah > > ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ > > --- drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: > > title, > Burgundy. > large > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 16:09:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BL9Rll013254 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:09:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BL9VXC025427; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:09:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BL8r5k087669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:08:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BL8hsx053565; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:08:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BL8dXS053498 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:08:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FIBKI-0001p3-9L for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:08:39 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:13:00 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <009c01c64493$db5c2c10$154d4e40@Stuckis> <20060311063157.52303.qmail@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060311063157.52303.qmail@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<091N+ZDc4zdsIH4tiakTWKYwHE>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:09:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44133C8B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Oh no - I put a kilt together with Cap'n Jack's way of walking and I get - centre of Glasgow on a Saturday night! Not a good picture! Jean Melody Watts wrote > hmmmm....how about Cap'n Jack IN a kilt?????? >ultimate rowwhhh!double oye! > melody > >--- Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > >> >> > >> > And yeah, if you got a hubby willing to dress like >> Capt'n Jack... oye. >> > Enjoy yourselves. ;-) >> > I fell in love with my husband because he enjoyed >> wearing kilts... I >> > really like men in kilts. >> > >> > Kimiko >> >> Last week's People magazine had a photo of Johnny >> Depp, taken on the set of >> the new POtC movie. He was shirtless...rarr. >> >> Dianne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam >protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 17:57:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BMvgMM018615 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:57:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BMvkbe022077; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:57:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BMvCtm098204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:57:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BMv9l3030950; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:57:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BMv3mM030816 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:57:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.71]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060311225657.BQLN27467.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:56:57 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060310083618.028921d0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:56:53 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <1141984142.450.25879.m19@yahoogroups.com> References: <1141984142.450.25879.m19@yahoogroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanish patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:57:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441355EA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I believe that the correct URL is: http://www.vertetsable.com/research_freyle.htm Beth At 03:49 AM 3/10/2006, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:01:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Esperanza de Navarra >Subject: 16th Century Spanish patterns > >I found this neat site for those of you with late Spanish personas: > http://web.archive.org/web/20030204224256/www.vertetsable.com/freyle.htm > > I had to get it from the web archive since it looks like it is no > longer there. > > It has copies of manuscript pages from Diego de Freyle (1588) > which looks to be a book of patterns for clothing. If you are even > a moderate garb maker, you can easily pick out what is what. > > Esperanza de Navarra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 18:25:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BNPkX4019767 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:25:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2BNPpFc030895; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:25:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BNPUPg000631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:25:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BNPTJK050918; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:25:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BNPOc3050865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:25:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-245.sonic.net [209.148.114.245]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2BNPMsj030339 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:25:23 -0800 Message-ID: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:25:22 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:25:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44135C7F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile linen or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 19:23:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C0NlZN021661 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C0Nn1I014368; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C0NOUm006490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:23:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C0NLju092663; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:23:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C0NIIw092529 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:23:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Taniampembroke@aol.com) Received: from Taniampembroke@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.241.86b4f89 (16109) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-R08 (mblk-r08.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.199]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID121-3eed441369ea125; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:06 -0500 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:03 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8138242B4029F-BF0-29A1@MBLK-R08.sysops.aol.com> From: taniampembroke@aol.com References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Received: from 65.10.238.215 by MBLK-R08.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.199) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:03 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.199 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:23:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44136A15.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Try www.victoriantradingco.com they usually have stuff like that. Tania -----Original Message----- From: Lavolta Press To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:25:22 -0800 Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile linen or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 21:06:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C2640T030446 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:06:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C266wR010777; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:06:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C25R63018850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:05:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C25Odi065207; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:05:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C25LL7065091 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:05:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IVZ004MHSGPXMZ6@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:05:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:05:13 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanish patterns In-reply-to: <6.0.0.22.0.20060310083618.028921d0@mail.alltel.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: Laurel , Maunche X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:06:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413820E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Speaking of late Spanish personas... About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find this, please let me know! Thanks. Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth and Bob Matney Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 5:57 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanish patterns I believe that the correct URL is: http://www.vertetsable.com/research_freyle.htm Beth At 03:49 AM 3/10/2006, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:01:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Esperanza de Navarra >Subject: 16th Century Spanish patterns > >I found this neat site for those of you with late Spanish personas: > http://web.archive.org/web/20030204224256/www.vertetsable.com/freyle.htm > > I had to get it from the web archive since it looks like it is no > longer there. > > It has copies of manuscript pages from Diego de Freyle (1588) > which looks to be a book of patterns for clothing. If you are even > a moderate garb maker, you can easily pick out what is what. > > Esperanza de Navarra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 21:19:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C2JCGv031595 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:19:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C2JHZQ013714; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:19:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C2Itnw020339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:18:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C2IsdF074588; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:18:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail4.tpgi.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C2InDh074515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:18:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-215-2-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.215.2]) by mail4.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2C2IkRX024576 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:18:47 +1100 Message-ID: <009f01c6457b$4b414320$02d7f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:18:45 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:19:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44138525.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The only one I know of is the reproduction medieval table linens carried by Historic Enterprises http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=113 But wouldn't most tea towels have been fairly plain and functional, possibly even rags (when your linen underwear wears out in one place you can cut down the rest of the smock/shirt to make something useful, like a tea towel). Unless you can think of a context in which they would be seen by guests (as if you could afford to have an ornamental tea towel your guests wouldn't see your kitchen) Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels > Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile linen > or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less > historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, > William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the > idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:07:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C374Gc004797 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C378qL025925; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C36hfX025307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:06:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C36fd7007121; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:06:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C36aEJ006988 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:06:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from web3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060312030630.EUIB16058.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@web3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:30 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.183.2]) by web3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060312030624.HUBD22512.web3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:24 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.1/279]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:19 +1300 Message-ID: <004401c64581$ef07c780$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanishpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:15 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413905C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the > Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large > painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. > She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her > jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, > but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find > this, please let me know! Thanks. Let me know if its one of the paintings here: http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com Otherwise I have a few books at the local fine arts library I can have a hunt trhough and see if there is similar painting. I have a few more portraits I haven't uploaded/linked to in my site so it may be I have it on file and not on the web. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:21:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3KqUH005543 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:20:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3KvFw029377; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:20:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3KLw2027317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:20:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3KKHd016168; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:20:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3KDx7016080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:20:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-245.sonic.net [209.148.114.245]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2C3KBGn022210 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:20:12 -0800 Message-ID: <4413936C.3020109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:20:12 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> <009f01c6457b$4b414320$02d7f5dc@user4712b7d135> In-Reply-To: <009f01c6457b$4b414320$02d7f5dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:21:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44139399.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > The only one I know of is the reproduction medieval table linens carried > by Historic Enterprises > http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=113 But > wouldn't most tea towels have been fairly plain and functional, possibly > even rags (when your linen underwear wears out in one place you can cut > down the rest of the smock/shirt to make something useful, like a tea > towel). Unless you can think of a context in which they would be seen by > guests (as if you could afford to have an ornamental tea towel your > guests wouldn't see your kitchen) These aren't for reenactment. I just like to have everything possible around my house be things I really like, whether anyone else sees the stuff or not. And I much prefer historic looking textiles (of many periods) to most modern ones. It would be more virtuous to use up some of my linen scraps, but I don't feel like it right now. Thanks for the link, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:40:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3egHC006970 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3elqc002064; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3eDYk029576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:40:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3e9p5030271; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:40:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3e3vo030147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:40:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIHR5-0008VP-7t; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:40:03 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:03 -0500 Message-ID: <20060311224003.3tigaaj5gjxsswc0@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:03 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanish patterns References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:40:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413983F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting monica spence : > Speaking of late Spanish personas... > > About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the > Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large > painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. > She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her > jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, > but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find > this, please let me know! Thanks. Might it be this one http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_01a.jpg Jerusha (who *really* likes Sofonisba's works) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:55:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3t695007618 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3tA4E005701; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3so84031044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3snhW040160; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:54:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3skUC040113 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:54:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B62136A55 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:54:45 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:54:47 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002801c644fc$232c9710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44139B9F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I knew about the sen and son part of the name. :) There is a possibility the name Tias might have been Ties. I've pretty much given up the search. Most of my families records lead to a dead end due to fires at the court houses.:P The Danish lace info is for a friend's cousin who is trying to recreate a 1800s wedding dress from a picture and letters. A letter mentions something about the dress lace being Danish lace. So she was wanting to learn how to make the lace. De -----Original Message----- Hi De, Sorensen would be Sørensen in danish. It is rather common with the name Petersen, Nielsen, Jensen and so on. It is the first name of a person with sen in the end. Sen means son. Sørens son, Henriks son and so on. Tias is a rare name, dont you think it could have ben a name someone had buyed? Danish laces ah yes, i have many experiments with these The danish laces are called Tønder laces, after a city in the south of Jutland. In this county there used to live thousinds of lacemakers back in 18th century, and there was an industry since the 17th century and documentation also that it was made there in 16th century. They always made laces after the fashion, f.instance when Arras laces was fashionable, they made Arras, Lille in fashion, they made Lille and so on. The laces most people think about today, when thinking Tønder laces, are tulle ground laces with floral patterns. These were made from end of 18th century till well into the 20th century. One of the best books about some danish patterns would be: Johanne Nyrup Larsen: Knipling efter tegning. (Lace made from drawings) Inge Wind Skovgaard: Tønderkniplinger I- and II. The last 30 years the lacemaking has become a renaissance here, many young people wants to learn. I am afraid that you will have some troubble in finding english books on the subjekt but if you are interrested, i am willing to send you some patterns if you like. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 22:55:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3tZC7007649 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C3teqe013116; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3tRs2031105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:55:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3tQO6040538; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C3tGeB040475 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:55:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-177-210.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.177.210]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3tEhs007787 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:55:15 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060311215445.01d10230@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:55:06 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" In-Reply-To: <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> References: <20060308033554.75017.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c6427d$498388a0$0300a8c0@boris> <9510f346ef2cc50bc491e941c3434449@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:55:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44139BBC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Susan, I've only stumbled across this post by accident while deleting this thread... (not much of a rider being deathly allergic to animals)... Anyway, I've seen an extant 16th c. English sidesaddle (Shakespeare's Birthplace Museum) so I know they existed before 1800, and it is one of the oddest looking things I've seen. I wasn't allowed to take photos there and there weren't any postcards of it (unfortunately) but if memory serves me it was sea-green leather thing (however, I could be misremembering and it might have been more blue than that) with silver braid in chevron-pattern or stripes. It was basically perfectly flat, oval shape on top with the pommel sticking up like a monolith at the center front. There wasn't much else too it, beside a rather normal looking saddle understructure - it was like instead of having a normal saddle seat they filled that area in and stuck a plate on top of it. It looked incredibly uncomfortable to sit on, and I would imagine it would cut of the circulation to your legs in no time at all. IIRC, there is a drawing of a woman using a contraption to sit sideways on a horse in Ruth Matilda Anderson's "Hispanic Costume: 1480 - 1530" as well. I found it interesting that Queen Elizabeth's saddle at Warwick Castle is a normal "astride" saddle, if rather ornamented. Cheers, Danielle At 10:33 AM 3/8/2006, you wrote: >Thanks, Melusine. > > From what I've learned, so far, riding clothes were not very > different from regular clothes until rather recently. Sidesaddles > are also a recent invention. I've heard that sidesaddles, as we > understand the term, did not exist prior to about 1800. I don't > know if that is true. >Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 23:14:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4Eath008247 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:14:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4EeM9010005; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:14:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C4EC8Q032748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:14:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4E8ET052670; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:14:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4E5xx052601 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:14:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.b7.6ac872f2 (18403) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:13:55 -0500 (EST) From: TeaRoseS@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:13:55 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:14:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413A030.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO So, since this is a hunting costume, is that really long train at the back intended to drape over the horse as in the other two portraits that were posted to the list? Tea Rose, who is planning a loose interpretation of a gown just like this. In a message dated 3/11/2006 1:01:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:50:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Would this be the portrait, Bjarne? http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/paintings/1700/bourgogne.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 23:31:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4VtC3008771 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4W0N6013919; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C4Vj3r034738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4Vi3L064531; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4Vf7P064423 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1f6.1ccc05c0 (15886) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-3e0e4413a42215b; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) To: Historical Costume Message-Id: <0ccd6de47af1a7bbac72a63128767f05@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:29 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] equestrian site- aside or astride? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413A440.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2C4VtC3008771 Status: RO Here is much info to digest. Comments? http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/sidesaddle.html Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 11 23:32:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4WT98008794 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C4WY1R024089; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C4VpVf034746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4Vpu9064589; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C4Vlo1064488 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:31:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.9a.37c501c2 (15886) for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-3e0e4413a429184; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:37 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <00be01c64427$bc06e6a0$f7ddf5dc@user4712b7d135> References: <20060306224203.69509.qmail@web25904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <00be01c64427$bc06e6a0$f7ddf5dc@user4712b7d135> Message-Id: <45c64a08c3585da46b5beb337d85226b@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:36 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:32:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413A462.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2C4WT98008794 Status: RO Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 10, 2006, at 4:48 AM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > While we're on the topic of Equestrian Costume I came across this > fashion plate > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/ > 1859septharpers.jpg from 1859. I was under the impression that women > didn't wear hoops or skirt supports (of whatever style was fashionable > at the time) when they were riding (as hoops would stand out from the > horse's side giving those below a view straight up your skirt and > bustles or paniers would get in the way of you sitting on the horse), > but it seems difficult to believe there isn't a crinoline under that > skirt. > Does anybody have an explanation for why she would wear a crinoline > with her riding costume? All I can think of is that maybe it's a way > to use up the extra length in the riding habit, but the 2 big problems > with that are A. all the fullness is on one side and B. it would mean > putting a crinoline on underneath your skirts in public. And I'm > pretty sure Victorian riding habits were only worn when you planned to > be actually riding, so no chance of having one for show and one for > actually getting on a horse. > I'm stumped, if anybody else can offer insights I'm really curious to > know. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 00:08:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C580LQ010048 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:08:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C584D7022549; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:08:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C57SbV038278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C57QNa087934; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C57NPC087830 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:07:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-244-104.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.104.244]) by pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2C57Hm28039 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:07:17 -0600 Message-ID: <4413AD75.60403@wideopenwest.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:11:17 -0500 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87, clamav-milter version 0.87 on pop-6.dnv.wideopenwest.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 00:08:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413ACB4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I know how you feel, Bjarne. My family research hit a wall too, due to a language barrier and a revolution. My great-great-great--(forget how many greats) grandfather left France in 1786 (3 years before the French Revolution) for Canada at the age of two. I don't speak French, and even if I did the odds of any records surviving the Revolution probably aren't good. On the other hand, a cousin has traced my great-great--(again, forgot how many greats) grandmother, Lady Anne Gosse, to 1660s England. I think we have an SCA persona here! I can borrow her name and craft a history based on the info my cousin dug up. Michelle, seeing the cup half-full. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 01:26:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C6QV5m012745 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:26:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2C6QapW009180; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:26:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C6Q6UY046774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C6Q34s043461; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:26:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C6Q0ri043415 for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:26:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from oemcomputer.vaxxine.com (ppp15.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.15]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2C6PDxG027569 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:25:13 -0500 (EST) X-RCPT-To: Message-Id: <4.3.0.20060312011925.023562f0@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@vaxxine.com@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:25:59 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: david webb In-Reply-To: <0ccd6de47af1a7bbac72a63128767f05@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Source for aesthetic style silk X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:26:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413BF1C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Greetings: At $345 Canadian a yard - not even in metres! I'm glad I'm not interested in doing anything in the aesthetic style, but it shure nuff is purty! "This rich silk fabric is based on an original made in England in the 1880's. The document (original) colour is in a Robin's Egg blue on Cream, but it is offered in six other colours as well." http://www.charlesrupert.com/traditional/1880to1900/aestheticsilk.html This company has a wide variety of reproduction wallpapers and textiles too. Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 05:19:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CAJnRU030574 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:19:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CAJsnA020451; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:19:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CAJJWF072992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:19:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CAJEtA001404; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:19:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CAJA4S001354 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A6AB262847 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:19:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002901c645be$6ec8e440$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4413AD75.60403@wideopenwest.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:19:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:19:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4413F5CA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Michelle, It was not me, who could not trace my family. It was De. My family name Drews is traced back to Friesland in nothern Germany. It was one of these, who came to Denmark to grow the new potatoes. In Germany many people is called Drews, but here in Denmark we are only 2 families with that name. I think there was a danish king, who gave away land for the new potato pheassants. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Plumb" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sorenson OT + >I know how you feel, Bjarne. > > My family research hit a wall too, due to a language barrier and a > revolution. > > My great-great-great--(forget how many greats) grandfather left France in > 1786 (3 years before the French Revolution) for Canada at the age of two. > > I don't speak French, and even if I did the odds of any records surviving > the Revolution probably aren't good. > > On the other hand, a cousin has traced my great-great--(again, forgot how > many greats) grandmother, Lady Anne Gosse, to 1660s England. > > I think we have an SCA persona here! I can borrow her name and craft a > history based on the info my cousin dug up. > > Michelle, seeing the cup half-full. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 07:57:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CCvhHB008418 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:57:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CCvlmq028332; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:57:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CCv7xP096894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CCv4Sl009717; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CCuwUL009665 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:57:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm25.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F55F17FD5 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:56:58 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060312045658.E2193E89@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:56:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EFBqa4xTa2AEAAAAB,067add733ad44d20c8df4d34f44cfb4e X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:57:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44141ACB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That was probably a galah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galah Whenever I hear galahs calling/screaming, it reminds me of being on my grandma's farm in northwest Victoria. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- drewscph@post12.tele.dk wrote: Hi, yes I know that personality to a bird. When i studyed at the design school, we had a day in the zoo to draw animals. I preferred to draw the birds. Especially one of them an australian one rose colloured with tall feathers on the head, dont know the name, i got quite friendly with, and i could stick in my finger and pet it . After lunch, i hurried back, and the bird was waiting for me ( i thoaght) but when i took the finger into him, he just bite me so hard you cant imagine. I guess it was another one, and not the other one i had pet before lunch. I never forget that bird................ Bjarne _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:10:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDA0Uv008811 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:10:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDA5K3032107; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:10:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CD9jmL001860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CD9hES019577; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:09:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CD9bcP019501 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm24.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8A940386 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:09:37 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060312050937.E2193F08@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:09:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish ancestors X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EFB2REOqa1gEAAAAB,a1585cc2b34171a13166f37987a1a0ae X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:10:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44141DAD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Your great-grandfather, too, Roscelin? My great-grandfather Hansen was a Danish sailor, which is how he ended up in Brisbane and met my great-grandmother. We've probably both got relatives all over Denmark. :-) A funny story about names - when my mother was pregnant with me, she wanted to choose a name which would go well with the Danish Hansen name. She saw a book of Danish baby names advertised somwhere, and sent away for it. When it arrived, she discovered it was IN Danish! ( She only knows English. ) I'm not sure how she came up with name I was christened with, or the spelling. I know there are other people with the same spelling, but I've never met one - all other variations of Joanna, Johanna, etc. Ive met - but not mine. Joannah. ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- roscelinlimoges@comcast.net wrote: What a wonderful website. This is when I wish I need knew how to speak my great grandfather's native language. He was from Copenhagen. Roscelin _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:17:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDHXTN009090 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:17:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDHcCI002102; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:17:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDGAqP003966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:16:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDG8Yd025087; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:16:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDG5Xm024965 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:16:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AF0E02A8; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:15:58 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 12 Mar 2006 08:15:55 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:18:12 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:17:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44141F72.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Fran, the only time I have seen any that might be as you describe is at antique flea markets...such as Brimfield in Ma. Sometimes there are rummage baskets with assorted (and sometimes unculled) linen. At the July (5 day session) I am usually over-warm and end up searching for a stylish sort of tea towel or dresser cloth to use as a perspiration towel, Have netted a couple with nice fringe much as you describe. The best ones of course are usually folded nicely on tables with prices to pay for the TLC. But a few don't make that far because the dealer doesn't "do" textiles and just has this old box of rags hanging about. These are of course what I look for. Brimfield happens three times a year and is located less than 10 miles from Sturbridge Village (a 19thC living history community). There are acres and acres of tents and dealers. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:25 PM Subject: [h-cost] Tea towels > Does anyone know where to get tea towels/dish towels of the non-pile > linen or cotton type, preferably from the US? With more or less > historic-looking printed or woven designs such as tapestry, medieval, > William Morris, Art Nouveau, Arts & Crafts, Victorian . . . you get the > idea. With nice designs but not cute/sweet. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:26:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDQqTO009424 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:26:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDQvU2004896; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:27:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDQYvW008268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:26:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDQTso034284; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:26:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDQQTH034225 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:26:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm29.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84ED3FDA7 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:26:25 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm29 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060312052625.E2193FCC@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:26:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Birds X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EFCGBVdpmMQEAAAAB,c9c58b738db0fc06d81e7b4d5f0359d4 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:27:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441421A1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO You should hear the stories a friend of mine who works at the RSPCA here in Brisbane tells about a sulphur crested cockatoo that lives at the shelter. The bird's name is Bob, which he knows very well - even referring to himself in the third person. Bob got moved one day to the reception area, and promptly started calling himself another name. 'Scratch Harry, scratch Harry?' He completely bamboozled the reception staff - they had no idea that he was really Bob. Now, how many birds decide to have an identity change? Bob is just a bit too smart, sometimes, by the sound of things. He's also really cantankerous and unpredictable, which is why he is still at the shelter. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- glendarob@exemail.com.au wrote: Sounds like a Galah: galah.galahs.com.au/content/php/article016.php Can't say I've ever met an Australian parrot that's easy to deal with. Our old neighbours had a Sulpher Crested Cockatoo who would 'stage whisper' in the middle of the night, too many times we thought someone had broken in! It would also shriek late at night too. We ended up spraying it with our hose when it shrieked. They're quite clever, so eventually it got the hint. My parents had wild parrots eat their wooden pergola and their geranium bed, and the mess the local cockatoos leave of our flowering eucalypts has to be seen to be believed - they just rip all the flowers off the trees and drop them to the ground. The one that was friendly must have been very tame! We're all fairly wary (or is it scared) of them over here. But they're very pretty. Glenda. _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:51:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDp8nB010252 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:51:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDpDf2011884; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:51:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDosZl016411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:50:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDormd054830; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:50:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDonca054719 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:50:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:50:44 -0800 Message-ID: <44142740.8090103@msn.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:50:56 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 13:50:44.0302 (UTC) FILETIME=[F558A6E0:01C645DB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:51:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44142751.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Wow! What an interesting observation! I too have horses and just recently bought a new one just so I could dress her and myself up! My other horses are all Quarter horses, and they just don't suit my costuming tastes. I had a side saddle made about 10 years ago for this purpose also, but for Annettes reasons, have not gotten around to using if to my cosutming ends. I would LOVE to have discussion with others of like mind. Perhaps we could keep our costuming discussions on this list because there are such good resources (and I myself love to read other's posts even if they are outside my current focus.). What if we precededed each of our equestrian posts with an EQ-as I have done, and create a Yahoo group for all the other non-costume related discussions. (I'd love to shary horse stories, pictures etc.) Yeah! Sg Kahlara wrote: >Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. > > I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles of riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it close to list topic). > > Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range of interests that most creative people share to one degree or another. For my part... > > horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, good movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other artistically creative endeavors such as panting or some type of crafting, etc. And of course, the list always exceeds the amount of time available to pursue said interests. > > Just a little generalizing. ;-) > > Annette M > > >--------------------------------- >Brings words and photos together (easily) with > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:55:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDt1qR010365 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:55:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDt6Uk012980; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:55:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDsopl017333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDsnTf057777; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:54:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDskt1057722 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 97B50A5003D for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:54:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001101c645dc$8e252b00$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060312050937.E2193F08@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish ancestors Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:55:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:55:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414283A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, The most common name would be Johanne with an e last. Its the equivalent to Johan wich is a mans name, or perhaps Johannes, wich is a name taken from the bible. It would be John the baptist´danish name, Johannes. Yes in the end all you australian and american, would all be european origin. Wish i had the warmth here as they have in Australia. We have had frost for months now, and we long to get some spring here................ My kitchen where i sit with the puter, is not heated, so you dont want to stay here very long. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Danish ancestors > Your great-grandfather, too, Roscelin? My great-grandfather Hansen was a > Danish sailor, which is how he ended up in Brisbane and met my > great-grandmother. We've probably both got relatives all over Denmark. :-) > > A funny story about names - when my mother was pregnant with me, she > wanted to choose a name which would go well with the Danish Hansen name. > She saw a book of Danish baby names advertised somwhere, and sent away for > it. When it arrived, she discovered it was IN Danish! ( She only knows > English. ) I'm not sure how she came up with name I was christened with, > or the spelling. I know there are other people with the same spelling, but > I've never met one - all other variations of Joanna, Johanna, etc. Ive > met - but not mine. > > Joannah. > > ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ > > --- roscelinlimoges@comcast.net wrote: > > What a wonderful website. This is when I wish I need knew how to speak my > great grandfather's native language. He was from Copenhagen. > > Roscelin > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 08:58:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDwP4q010465 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:58:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CDwUST013926; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:58:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDw43I018129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:58:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDw27t060244; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:58:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CDvxSw060169 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:58:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 93E93262841 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:57:58 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001a01c645dd$025fce80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:58:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:58:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44142906.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Oh yes please have this disgussion on the list. Its no bother at all, and very costume contented. It would be a shame if everybody made small forums for special things, we would end up with nothing in the end, and then i would be very sad! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 2:50 PM Subject: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT > Wow! What an interesting observation! I too have horses and just > recently bought a new one just so I could dress her and myself up! My > other horses are all Quarter horses, and they just don't suit my costuming > tastes. I had a side saddle made about 10 years ago for this purpose > also, but for Annettes reasons, have not gotten around to using if to my > cosutming ends. I would LOVE to have discussion with others of like mind. > Perhaps we could keep our costuming discussions on this list because there > are such good resources (and I myself love to read other's posts even if > they are outside my current focus.). What if we precededed each of our > equestrian posts with an EQ-as I have done, and create a Yahoo group for > all the other non-costume related discussions. (I'd love to shary horse > stories, pictures etc.) > > Yeah! > > Sg > Kahlara wrote: > >>Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem to >>have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as the >>shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >> riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles of >> riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it close >> to list topic). >> Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range of >> interests that most creative people share to one degree or another. For >> my part... >> horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, good >> movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other artistically >> creative endeavors such as panting or some type of crafting, etc. And of >> course, the list always exceeds the amount of time available to pursue >> said interests. >> Just a little generalizing. ;-) >> Annette M >> >> --------------------------------- >>Brings words and photos together (easily) with >> PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 09:10:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CE9xhO010831 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:09:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CEA4Vi017455; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:10:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CE9hja021219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:09:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CE9gIY069232; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:09:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CE9ar8069114 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:09:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.57.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.57] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FIRGJ-00040l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:09:36 -0500 Message-ID: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:08:05 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: layers still: Ruff References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:10:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44142BBC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO otsisto wrote: > But from the picture, the inner "heart" piece looks to be of a lighter > weight then the surrounding loop which is why I believe that it is 3 layers > and not two. I'm trying to picture how this could work with three layers. The innermost layer of any loop is always the outermost layer of the next loop. Are you picturing two lighter weight layers with a heavier layer in between? As far as extra fullness in some layers and not others, I can't see how it could work. If you had two lightweight layers with a heavier one between, and both lightweight layers had more fullness than the heavier layer, you'd end up with too much on the outside of every loop. Try your method in paper and see if it works. I think the lightweight vs. heavier layers in the painting may be an illlusion and that Occam's Razor is our friend here. Cheers, Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 09:41:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CEfYrq011881 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:41:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CEfcwo025909; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:41:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CEfGhS027030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:41:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CEfDjU093720; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:41:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CEf92S093642 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m203.in-tch.com [216.166.191.203]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2CEWEA29418 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:32:14 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanishpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:48:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:41:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44143322.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It sure doesn't show up in my book on Anguissola. There are a couple of portraits of women in black, but neither is one of the Infantas (assuming you're referring to the daughters of Philip and Isabel...there don't seem to be any in my book at all of Philip and Anne's children). In addition, there are several portraits of the two Infantas, but none of them have any attribute of being a "mourning" outfit. In the portraits of the girls when younger, they're wearing a dark, brocaded fabric. In older portraits, they're wearing mostly black, but so it virtually every other adult from the Spanish court. Could the exhibit have been making an incorrect assumption about the use of black in the portraits? Their mother died when they were very young (toddler & infant)..... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "monica spence" To: "Historical Costume" Cc: "Laurel" ; "Maunche" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 7:05 PM Subject: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanishpatterns > Speaking of late Spanish personas... > > About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the > Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large > painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. > She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her > jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, > but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find > this, please let me know! Thanks. > Monica Spence > (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 10:06:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CF6smY012921 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:06:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CF6pPB032120; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:07:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CF5dtv030260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CF5W8j015723; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:05:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CF5Sw8015588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:05:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIS8K-0002la-Ij; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:05:24 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:05:24 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:05:24 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th Century Spanishpatterns References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:07:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414390B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Sue Clemenger : > It sure doesn't show up in my book on Anguissola. There are a couple of > portraits of women in black, but neither is one of the Infantas (assuming > you're referring to the daughters of Philip and Isabel...there don't seem to > be any in my book at all of Philip and Anne's children). In addition, there > are several portraits of the two Infantas, but none of them have any > attribute of being a "mourning" outfit. In the portraits of the girls when > younger, they're wearing a dark, brocaded fabric. In older portraits, > they're wearing mostly black, but so it virtually every other adult from the > Spanish court. I have to say this is the first time I'd ever seen this one http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_01a.jpg I *really* want to know how to search that web site! (Are you looking at the Perlingeri book? I love that book -- I want a copy!) Susan (ska Jerusha) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 10:26:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CFQCVw013697 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:26:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CFQH58004365; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:26:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CFPqTP033508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:25:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFPpew034089; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:25:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFPl1l034051 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:25:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m203.in-tch.com [216.166.191.203]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2CFGvA07080 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:16:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> <20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:33:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:26:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44143D99.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Perlingeri it is! I lucked into getting one 12 or 13 years ago at an SCA event (Estrella War) At the time, I was heavily into late 16th century clothing, so finding it was like finding "the god book," especially since it was some time before QEUnlocked came out. And Anguissola being a woman made the whole thing that much sweeter. My oldest cat is named "Sofi," after the artist, but I've given up trying to explain it to non-Ren geeks ;o) (Kitty in question is striped, with a white smudge of "paint" on her nose). I *still* would like to make every dress in that book! I love the variety of Spanish and Italian styles, and the paintings as portraits--it's fascinating to look and see real people, if that makes sense. I'm not an art historian, so some of the finer points of the way this hand was painted, or particular attributions of color choices, etc. escape me entirely, but it's a wonderful book for the biography and the paintings, even so! --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:05 AM Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns > Quoting Sue Clemenger : > > > It sure doesn't show up in my book on Anguissola. There are a couple of > > portraits of women in black, but neither is one of the Infantas (assuming > > you're referring to the daughters of Philip and Isabel...there don't seem to > > be any in my book at all of Philip and Anne's children). In addition, there > > are several portraits of the two Infantas, but none of them have any > > attribute of being a "mourning" outfit. In the portraits of the girls when > > younger, they're wearing a dark, brocaded fabric. In older portraits, > > they're wearing mostly black, but so it virtually every other adult from the > > Spanish court. > > I have to say this is the first time I'd ever seen this one > http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_01a.jpg > > I *really* want to know how to search that web site! > > (Are you looking at the Perlingeri book? I love that book -- I want a > copy!) > > Susan (ska Jerusha) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 10:37:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CFbpVB014070 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CFbuGE007590; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CFbS8e034691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:37:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFbQta042440; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:37:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFbNQW042324 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:37:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.22e.7f44323 (15874) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID71-3e02441440243ce; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:08 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <1ee42e1489228f186c316a6744b0ee15@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of OT Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:06 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:37:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44144054.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2CFbpVB014070 Status: RO I am also interested in other people's areas of interest in costumes, if only because the people on this list are so knowledgeable and willing to share. I'm sure that I will NEVER attain the fabric related skills of many people on this list, but it is so much fun to see what others have accomplished. Brightens up my day with these beautiful things Sg- what type of horse did you buy and what type of costuming are you looking to reproduce? I would also like to share horse stories with you folks. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:50 AM, WickedFrau wrote: > Wow! What an interesting observation! I too have horses and just > recently bought a new one just so I could dress her and myself up! My > other horses are all Quarter horses, and they just don't suit my > costuming tastes. I had a side saddle made about 10 years ago for > this purpose also, but for Annettes reasons, have not gotten around to > using if to my cosutming ends. I would LOVE to have discussion with > others of like mind. Perhaps we could keep our costuming discussions > on this list because there are such good resources (and I myself love > to read other's posts even if they are outside my current focus.). > What if we precededed each of our equestrian posts with an EQ-as I > have done, and create a Yahoo group for all the other non-costume > related discussions. (I'd love to shary horse stories, pictures etc.) > > Yeah! > > Sg > Kahlara wrote: > >> Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations >> seem to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as >> well as the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. >> I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and >> riding. I ride and own horses also. I also have made various articles >> of riding clothing and costumes for shows over the years (to keep it >> close to list topic). >> Although each individual is different, there seems to be a range >> of interests that most creative people share to one degree or >> another. For my part... >> horses, cats (or pets in general), costuming, reading, theatre, >> good movies, classical and traditional music, gardening, other >> artistically creative endeavors such as panting or some type of >> crafting, etc. And of course, the list always exceeds the amount of >> time available to pursue said interests. >> Just a little generalizing. ;-) >> Annette M >> >> --------------------------------- >> Brings words and photos together (easily) with >> PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 11:37:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CGb12H016202 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:37:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CGb0VF023641; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:37:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CGaGCl043265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:36:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CGa9X6089891; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CGa6Zs089789 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.48.167.61]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20060312163600.PCED29039.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:36:00 -0500 Message-ID: <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:30:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ruff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:37:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44144E2C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my brain, so here's a possibly silly question: is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew it together? Sheridan P. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 12:24:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHOGSo017848 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:24:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHOLRZ004228; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:24:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHNtFk049058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:23:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHNrAg025479; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:23:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHNn7b025414 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.57.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.57] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FIUIG-0001U4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:23:49 -0500 Message-ID: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:22:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:24:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44145945.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Shane & Sheridan wrote: > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew > it together? After. If you want the lovely figure-eights to work out right, just sew a very tightly gathered band of fabric to the top of your neckband. Then soak it in liquid starch and proceed from there. Full instructions of how I do mine are on my website at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html The thing is, every time you wash it, the starch all comes out. So you don't want to have to take it all apart every time you have to wash and re-starch. And you will want to wash it--they sit right next to the neck and are prey to "ring around the ruff." Happy starching, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 12:28:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHSvm8018034 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:28:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHT2gA005354; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:29:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHSfgO049439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:28:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHSePe028802; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:28:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHSV50028702 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:28:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:28:25 -0800 Message-ID: <44145A45.50401@msn.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:28:37 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 17:28:25.0410 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E5F9220:01C645FA] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Naked Children in the Grass-OT X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:29:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44145A5E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO As you will be able to quickly tell, the only thing costume related about this dish is it's name....of course, there too, there is something lacking. This is an old Dutch recipe of lima & green beans. I just think the name is hilarious, and was wondering if any of you might know how far back it goes?? I know I first heard of it back in the 70's.... And for those of you wondering, it is actually very good. I am not what you would call a Lima bean fan...and I could it bowls of this. Feel free to respond off list if you feel the topic is too off! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 12:46:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHkTau018681 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:46:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHkWK1010391; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:46:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHjUHH051215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:45:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHjS62041222; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:45:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHjOLp041110 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:45:19 -0800 Message-ID: <44145E3B.8090703@msn.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:45:31 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20060306164102.75031.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1ee42e1489228f186c316a6744b0ee15@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1ee42e1489228f186c316a6744b0ee15@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 17:45:19.0426 (UTC) FILETIME=[BAC62220:01C645FC] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: EQ-Naggers and Clothes-was Equestrian costumers.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:46:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44145E78.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My mare is an Andalusian/Arab cross and I am about ready to breed her to a full Andalusian. I am not able to afford the current pure "Andy" breed, this is the closest I will be able to come. My dream is to be able to make many different costumes to ride her with. (I want an orange/black [which looks brown] shot taffeta Victorian, side-saddle habit for sure). My girlfriend has offered to help me make a complete hand Inkled tubular breast collar crupper, etc. for a more "Arabick-y" style. I have fiddled with caprisons, making a "chair" sidesaddle etc. I am all over the place in time and country in my dreams...check this site out...http://www.kreml.ru/en/main/collection/museum/harness/. (For the non-nagger costumer, there are some very cool "regular" costumes too.) The closest I have come to riding in costume is at some local SCA events in a linen tunic, schooling tights, and a pair of Ariat Heritage packers! Pretty sad considering my collection of fabrics and ideas. Love this thread...p.s. I am in the middle of cooking a large historic meal today...but will post pictures of my naggers later....They are on my webpage somewhere already, but I can't find them! Sg Susan Data-Samtak wrote: > I am also interested in other people's areas of interest in costumes, > if only because the people on this list are so knowledgeable and > willing to share. I'm sure that I will NEVER attain the fabric > related skills of many people on this list, but it is so much fun to > see what others have accomplished. Brightens up my day with these > beautiful things > > Sg- what type of horse did you buy and what type of costuming are you > looking to reproduce? > > I would also like to share horse stories with you folks. > > Susan > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 12:57:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHvsRM019146 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:57:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CHvxEw013333; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:58:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHvVXm052649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:57:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHvTj9050255; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHvQ4u050206 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:57:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13280 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:28:57 -0600 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:28:56 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001101c645dc$8e252b00$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:58:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44146127.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Sun, 12 Mar 2006, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Yes in the end all you australian and american, would all be european > origin. Well, um, no, not really. 200 years ago, almost true in the US (but there were still Native Americans and some Africans). Now add the East Asian, South Asian, Middle Eastern, South American, Pacific Islander, etc. and the US population is well on its way to being majority non-European -- can't remember the last time I heard a demographic prediction of what year that would occur, but it's not far off. Of course every such prediction makes sense only on paper, because in reality intermarrying gives a lot of people here part-European part-other ancestry. Getting this back to costume: This came up on the list a few years ago, when we were discussing the typical facial characteristics associated with particular European historical populations, and how historic costumes/headdress styles generally developed to flatter the dominant facial "look" of the local population (e.g. Italian, Germanic, Russian, Flemish) -- something especially true for Medieval and Renaissance periods when regional populations were mostly homogeneous. In the US, there is no dominant "look," and indeed many people here do not have features that can be uniformly compared to any one particular historic population because most of us have a mix -- even if it's a mix of various European heritages. As someone pointed out at that time, the difference is noticeable when you look at a group portrait of a European re-enactment group, when pretty much everyone in the picture is from the same general gene pool, and it's close to the same gene pool as the population they're re-enacting. Then compare that with an American re-enactment group; even if everyone's dressed to the same place/period, their faces show a huge variety of features, colors, etc. It's something I've found that the Europeans take for granted because they're used to looking at the same general type of faces every day. Yes, this is changing in much of Europe now, particularly in the larger cities, but genetically the mixing is way behind what we see in the States, and it takes a few generations to get a mix significant enough to affect the overall visual look of a group. Often in a specific locally based European re-enactment group you can pick out a couple of outliers -- in the American groups all the faces are different from all the others. It is my costuming bane that I have a face that is Middle Eastern filtered through Russian, which means I look best in Italian, ethnic Greek, and of course Russian costume ... none of which I am remotely interested in. No, I had to get interested in Franco-Flemish, me with the tiny forehead and heavy dark brows and pointy chin... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 13:59:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CIx3Lg021222 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:59:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CIx83q029144; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:59:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CIwc9f059974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CIwXqv095278; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CIwTkU095241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-16.sonic.net [209.148.114.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2CIwPh4019042 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:58:28 -0800 Message-ID: <44146F52.8000109@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:58:26 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com> <003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:59:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44146F7C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO There are hundreds and hundreds of fancy (and not so fancy) vintage and antique tablecloths, towels, tea towels, bedspreads, handkerchiefs, and linens of all sorts on eBay. Embroidered, printed, crocheted, tatted, fringed, woven, plaid, striped, plain, and everything you can think of. You can buy them individually or as part of a big lot, and in conditions ranging from perfect to awful. I was buying embroidered tablecloths to make into skirts for awhile, at great prices, but after buying eight or so within a few days I gave up browsing the textiles. There were just too many. But if you look under Collectibles/Linens, Fabric and Textiles or Antiques, Textiles and Linens (the latter are generally pricier items), you'll never have to spend hours at a flea market again--just in front of your computer. I had the sense to do a search on "tea towels," after I posted. Irish Linen tea towels appear to have been popular since the early 1970s, judging by the fact that some are dated (because they're printed with calendars for the year). There are scads on eBay, though most are printed with very tacky designs. I didn't find any William Morris ones (even though I've just worn out four in my kitchen, bought from museum catalogs at different times). If anyone is interested, many of the towels are listed on eBay for about $5, and they are very effective as hand and dish towels. I got three printed with Book of Kells designs which are a bit bright for my taste, but that will fade as they get beat up and washed every week (the reason why I passed up all the vintage embroidered ones listed--we use the towels heavily). Also one printed with a picture of the Louvre (tea towels seem to be popular tourist items). Then someone on h-costume, whose message I accidentally deleted, kindly sent me a link to the online store of the Country Dance and Song Society, where you can buy the Book of Kells towels: http://www.cdss.org/sales/holiday.html But if anyone knows anywhere in the US to get more William Morris tea towels (I did find some places in England), please let me know. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Fran, the only time I have seen any that might be as you describe is at > antique flea markets...such as Brimfield in Ma. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 14:06:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJ6CKj021454 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:06:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJ6H7E031384; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:06:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJ5uuk060824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:05:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJ5tsu000889; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJ5o3E000770 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:05:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.232.876aa4a (39953) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:05:39 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:05:38 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:06:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44147129.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Lovely site, Melanie. Your costumes are all wonderful. [Hey...why skip the 18th century?] Your ruff instructions are great too. I especially like your use of items just about anybody can get a hold of! Have you seen Jean Honnisette's ruff instructions? She "starches" and does the 8's BEFORE gathering to the neck band. But of course in the period, this seems unlikely. It makes more sense to me to start with a gathered ruffle and then manipulate it. How did you determine how much yardage to use in the ruff? More would make bigger 8's, no? Would you need a goffering iron with a larger diameter? Why did you attach the 2nd ruff to the neck of the shirt? If I were you, I take the ruff and neckband off the shirt, put a new band on the shirt and just baste them together to wear. That way washing is easier, fixing the ruff is easier, and you can wear the ruff elsewhere...and the shirt w/out a ruff. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 14:31:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJVQVt022384 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:31:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJVVwC006029; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:31:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJVC8f063359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:31:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJVAml018983; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:31:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJV6il018899 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:31:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CC46B47FE41 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:31:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c6460b$8e5927f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:31:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] starching ruffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:31:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44147713.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I made one of those big mill stone ruffs years back, but that was before i had the pleassure of being educated by all the knolledged people on this list. I cut it in the theater cut, with large cirkles with a hole in the middle for the neck. I sewed together all the cirkles 6 in all first, and then i starched it ironed it before i started to form the eights by hand and attatched all the pleats bit by bit. It was a very difficult job and i had a chair where the ruff rested while i made it. It was the kind of ruff you se in the portraits by Rubens and Frans Hals. But now we know that even these large ones was made by yardage of fabric, and not cirkles :-( And even worse, it collapsed few weeks later while exhibited in a cold damp room of an old manor house. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 14:35:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJZebJ022555 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:35:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJZiVe007223; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:35:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJZNRf063849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:35:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJZN4s022008; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:35:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav10.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJZIkw021931 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:35:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:35:14 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:35:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:35:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 19:35:14.0944 (UTC) FILETIME=[16025000:01C6460C] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:35:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44147811.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I personally like to starch after it's constructed, then the starch doesn't break down when being handled and I can shape the ruff the way I like. Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruff > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into > my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you > sew > it together? > > Sheridan P. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 14:50:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJoF1R023230 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:50:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CJoJJI011480; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:50:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJnqtY065461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:49:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJnoHc032557; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:49:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CJnkej032477 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.220.19]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20060312194940.RHXW4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:40 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] starching ruffs Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-reply-to: <000f01c6460b$8e5927f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Thread-Index: AcZGDAQp7uAvLeLMS6uFPJWWNZELvwAAeYcQ Message-Id: <20060312194940.RHXW4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:50:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44147B7C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >And even worse, it collapsed few weeks later while exhibited in a cold damp >room of an old manor house. What a shame. All that work for naught. Did you get a picture before it "melted"? Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 15:13:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKDtwY024194 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:13:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKE0jK018459; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:14:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CKDc3W067726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:13:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKDZcv050624; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:13:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKDWN4050498 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:13:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW100GTX6UAQJY3@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:13:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:13:20 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns In-reply-to: <20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:14:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148108.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thanks ! This is it! Best Regards- Monica PS-- Where did you find this??? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:05 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns Quoting Sue Clemenger : > It sure doesn't show up in my book on Anguissola. There are a couple of > portraits of women in black, but neither is one of the Infantas (assuming > you're referring to the daughters of Philip and Isabel...there don't seem to > be any in my book at all of Philip and Anne's children). In addition, there > are several portraits of the two Infantas, but none of them have any > attribute of being a "mourning" outfit. In the portraits of the girls when > younger, they're wearing a dark, brocaded fabric. In older portraits, > they're wearing mostly black, but so it virtually every other adult from the > Spanish court. I have to say this is the first time I'd ever seen this one http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_01a.jpg I *really* want to know how to search that web site! (Are you looking at the Perlingeri book? I love that book -- I want a copy!) Susan (ska Jerusha) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 15:17:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKH4QI024328 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:17:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKHANk019326; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:17:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CKGtaC068080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:16:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKGtq2053131; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKGmic053044 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:16:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b3.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.179]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 72B4147FE09 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:16:39 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <006a01c64611$f01f0170$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060312194940.RHXW4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Subject: Re: [h-cost] starching ruffs Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:17:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:17:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441481C6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Anne, Yes i did, but only a small paper photo, i tryed to make it better and bigger on a computer, with not a good result. I made it to be worn with a purple dupioni silk wheelfarthingale dress i had made with a lot of pearl embroidery on the sleaves and stomacher. Its only to laugh at today, dupioni for a renaissance dress, but the museum was poor and could not spend money on this. I received my Tonner Doll and i want to make it an embroidered wheelfarthingal dress, after the portrait of Queen Anne of Denmark at the Greenwich Museum. Just have to find the right colour for the dress. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] starching ruffs > > > >>And even worse, it collapsed few weeks later while exhibited in a cold >>damp > >>room of an old manor house. > > What a shame. All that work for naught. Did you get a picture before it > "melted"? > Anne > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006 > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 15:26:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKQaSb024691 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CKQf5t022167; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CKQLuV068920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:26:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKQJ2A059843; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:26:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKQFwg059728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-16.sonic.net [209.148.114.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2CKQ3iv032623; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:26:04 -0800 Message-ID: <441483DD.4010003@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:26:05 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, vintage@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] SF Vintage Fashion Expo X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148401.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO BTW, for those in the San Francisco area (or willing to travel, as some people do), the spring San Francisco Vintage Fashion Expo is being held on March 18 and 19. Details on: http://www.vintagefashionexpo.com/ve.htm Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:16:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGDw0026426 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGIDY003912; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLF7kb079408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLF3PV099561; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CFYr7Z040662 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:34:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@NETSCAPE.COM) Received: from dm30.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232E1400BC for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:34:53 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm30 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060312073453.E2142B0E@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 07:34:53 -0800 (PST) From: " Lalah" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Source for aesthetic style silk X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nREFD+dpYmKMgEAAAAB,5b18ec34c934760d7f1aedfbbcae87e0 X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.117.9] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148FA2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That is cruel! There is a William Morris fabric in that lot that would be perfect for my bedroom drapes. I only need twenty yards and it only runs $110.00 a yard. Now if I ever win the lottery I know where to look for my fabric. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- alderweb@vaxxine.com wrote: From: david webb To: Historical Costume Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Source for aesthetic style silk Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:25:59 -0500 Greetings: At $345 Canadian a yard - not even in metres! I'm glad I'm not interested in doing anything in the aesthetic style, but it shure nuff is purty! "This rich silk fabric is based on an original made in England in the 1880's. The document (original) colour is in a Robin's Egg blue on Cream, but it is offered in six other colours as well." http://www.charlesrupert.com/traditional/1880to1900/aestheticsilk.html This company has a wide variety of reproduction wallpapers and textiles too. Sheridan Alder _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:16:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGDTJ026425 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGICQ007730; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLFkHu079494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLFjMU000313; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CGlfEB098943 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:47:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sjpaterson@tru.eastlink.ca) Received: from ip02.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.10]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IW000H7CX97ZN40@mta01.eastlink.ca> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:46:19 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-137-68-3.eastlink.ca (HELO THIRDFLOOR) ([24.137.68.3]) by ip02.eastlink.ca with SMTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:47:28 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:47:25 -0400 From: SPaterson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-id: <003201c645f4$a4d2c110$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148FA2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO IMNTBHO, before Sarah P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruff > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into > my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you > sew > it together? > > Sheridan P. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:16:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGEQP026427 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGJf3016996; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLFoQL079512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLFohO000375; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CHlbdn042805 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:47:32 -0800 Message-ID: <44145EC1.2000607@msn.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:47:45 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2006 17:47:32.0464 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A121F00:01C645FD] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148FA3.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO One of my ruffs is made from silk organza, and lace, it was pretty stiff before I starched it. It is actually easier to work with IMHO than something soft and flimsy.... Having done it both ways I prefer something with substance. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:16:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGGqV026429 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLGLaa006074; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLFtRo079571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLFtHA000443; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:15:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2CHxO5F051596 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 44391 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2006 17:59:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2006 17:59:19 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060312175549.01df7d70@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:59:18 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff In-Reply-To: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:16:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44148FA5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 18:22 12/03/2006, you wrote: >Shane & Sheridan wrote: >>It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my >>brain, so here's a possibly silly question: >>is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew >>it together? > >After. If you want the lovely figure-eights to work out right, just >sew a very tightly gathered band of fabric to the top of your >neckband. Then soak it in liquid starch and proceed from >there. Full instructions of how I do mine are on my website at > >http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html > >The thing is, every time you wash it, the starch all comes out. So >you don't want to have to take it all apart every time you have to >wash and re-starch. And you will want to wash it--they sit right >next to the neck and are prey to "ring around the ruff." If you use straw stiffener (millinery supplies) you stiffen it first, then form the eights and glue or sew them (glueing "is" authentic, or rather sticking with gum arabic IIRC). You don't wash, but clean with water, and re-stiffen with steam every time it goes limp. Useful for theatre, where you haven't time to do every ruff every time. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:20:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLKeAt026608 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLKj12005254; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLHNfB079811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLHNIm001696; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CKNaCS057809 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:23:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW100GGH7B6EO26@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:23:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:23:28 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns In-reply-to: <004401c64581$ef07c780$0401010a@michaela> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441490AD.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thank you so much! Your website is amazing!!! Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of michaela Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:06 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns > About 10 years ago there was a Sofanisba Anguisola(sp) exhibit down at the > Museum of Women in the Arts in Washington DC. There was a rather large > painting of an Infanta (Spanish princess) who was the daughter of Philip II. > She was wearing mourning for her mother and was in all black-- including her > jewelry. Has anyone else ever seen this? It is supposed to be ion the Prado, > but I have never seen it reproduced anywhere. If you know where I can find > this, please let me know! Thanks. Let me know if its one of the paintings here: http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com Otherwise I have a few books at the local fine arts library I can have a hunt trhough and see if there is similar painting. I have a few more portraits I haven't uploaded/linked to in my site so it may be I have it on file and not on the web. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 10/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 16:49:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLnbeP027673 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CLngtU013687; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLnNjQ084675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLnLtT025413; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xrelay03.mail2web.com (xrelay03.mail2web.com [168.144.1.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CLnIR9025313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:49:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gwen@moonsandstars.com) Received: from [168.144.251.158] (helo=M2W051.mail2web.com) by xrelay03.mail2web.com with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1FIYR3-0007td-9I for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:13 -0500 Message-ID: <380-22006301221499159@M2W051.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 24.226.19.4 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "gwen@moonsandstars.com" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2CLnIR9025313 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: ruff X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:49:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44149776.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have made several ruffs using both before and after starching methods. I find if I prep the fabric by starching it and ironing it first, I get a much better result when I start the pleating. Its a method I read about in Jean Hunniset's Stage to screen. While I am not a scholar on the subject, I have done some prelim research on it. http://thevilla.sccspirit.com/sisters/gwen_projects.htm Gwenhwyfar Message: 4 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:30:41 -0500 From: "Shane & Sheridan" Subject: [h-cost] Ruff To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my brain, so here's a possibly silly question: is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew it together? Sheridan P. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:47:25 -0400 From: SPaterson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <003201c645f4$a4d2c110$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original IMNTBHO, before Sarah P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruff > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into > my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you > sew > it together? > > Sheridan P. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:22:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Shane & Sheridan wrote: > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way into my > brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* you sew > it together? After. If you want the lovely figure-eights to work out right, just sew a very tightly gathered band of fabric to the top of your neckband. Then soak it in liquid starch and proceed from there. Full instructions of how I do mine are on my website at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html The thing is, every time you wash it, the starch all comes out. So you don't want to have to take it all apart every time you have to wash and re-starch. And you will want to wash it--they sit right next to the neck and are prey to "ring around the ruff." Happy starching, Melanie Schuessler Message: 9 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:47:45 -0700 From: WickedFrau Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed One of my ruffs is made from silk organza, and lace, it was pretty stiff before I starched it. It is actually easier to work with IMHO than something soft and flimsy.... Having done it both ways I prefer something with substance. Sg Message: 11 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:59:18 +0000 From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060312175549.01df7d70@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If you use straw stiffener (millinery supplies) you stiffen it first, then form the eights and glue or sew them (glueing "is" authentic, or rather sticking with gum arabic IIRC). You don't wash, but clean with water, and re-stiffen with steam every time it goes limp. Useful for theatre, where you haven't time to do every ruff every time. Suzi -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 18:41:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CNfLxf032323 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:41:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2CNfPXx011516; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:41:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CNex0i000707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:40:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CNepNf010851; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:40:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2CNelir010729 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.124]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060312234041.HCNA27467.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:40:41 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060312164908.02663de0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:40:36 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Anguissola X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:41:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414B1A5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I also have a copy of Sofonisba Anguissola - First Great women Artist of the Renaissance which is the English translation of: Sofonisba Anguissola - Femme Peintre de La Renaissance by Ilya Sandra Perlingieri Liana Levi Editeur, Paris (1992) pp.223, ills.. Has anyone seen the one by Flavio Caroli. Published in Milan,1987. Hardcover (Italian) Pp. 255. With catalogue of 42 works and reproductions. List of 24 attributed works also reproduced. List of works mentioned in historical sources; or the large monograph: SOFONISBA ANGUISSOLA E LE SUE SORELLE by GREGORI, M. (e altri) Corsico 1994. Bross., cm 28x24, pp 437, numer. ill. a colori e b/n Thanks, Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 19:06:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D05soA000781 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:05:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D05xsR018575; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:06:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D05ZlA004585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:05:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D05YP9028509; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:05:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D05ViA028466 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:05:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A62AE9D0274; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:00:42 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Ruff Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:05:32 -0800 Message-ID: <000601c64631$d8b5c210$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:06:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414B768.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO If you put an extra layer on the inside of the ruff neckband, you can take that off to wash and sew on again more easily. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:23 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff Shane & Sheridan wrote: > It's Sunday morning, and the caffeine has not yet percolated its way > into my brain, so here's a possibly silly question: > > is it a good idea to starch the fabric of a ruff *before* or *after* > you sew it together? After. If you want the lovely figure-eights to work out right, just sew a very tightly gathered band of fabric to the top of your neckband. Then soak it in liquid starch and proceed from there. Full instructions of how I do mine are on my website at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html The thing is, every time you wash it, the starch all comes out. So you don't want to have to take it all apart every time you have to wash and re-starch. And you will want to wash it--they sit right next to the neck and are prey to "ring around the ruff." Happy starching, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 19:57:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D0vH5D002556 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:57:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D0vMon032517; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:57:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D0uvsO010072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:56:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D0utLZ062513; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:56:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D0uobk062400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:56:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIbMf-0005V3-4w; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:56:49 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:56:49 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312195649.gr0damhcfkgw0coo@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:56:49 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> <20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com> <002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:57:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414C372.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Sue Clemenger : > Perlingeri it is! I lucked into getting one 12 or 13 years ago at an > SCA event (Estrella War) At the time, I was heavily into late 16th century > clothing, so finding it was like finding "the god book," especially since it > was some time before QEUnlocked came out. And Anguissola being a woman > made the whole thing that much sweeter. Lucky you! It's on my Amazon Wish List ... and I get to keep the Libraries copy until I graduate! :-D My other Favorite Artist Book is the one on Lavinia Fontana by Murphy. > My oldest cat is named "Sofi," after the artist, but I've given up trying to > explain it to non-Ren geeks ;o) (Kitty in question is striped, with a white > smudge of "paint" on her nose). If I hadn't been Jerusha for so many years, I would have been so tempted to choose either Sofonisba or Artemesia for a name. > I *still* would like to make every dress in that book! I love the variety > of Spanish and Italian styles, and the paintings as portraits--it's > fascinating to look and see real people, if that makes sense. I'm not an > art historian, so some of the finer points of the way this hand was painted, > or particular attributions of color choices, etc. escape me entirely, but > it's a wonderful book for the biography and the paintings, even so! Oh, yeah. Have you seen the "new" book on Eleanor of Toledo (Moda a Firenze)? More gorgeous paintings -- most of which I had *never* seen before! Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 20:28:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1S8D9003655 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:28:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1SD1M008667; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:28:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1RpHO013542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:27:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1Rnxk083606; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:27:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1RkJ9083498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIbqc-0005Vg-NW; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:27:46 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:27:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312202746.e5e4z7cex3c4cocw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:27:46 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anguissola References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060312164908.02663de0@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20060312164908.02663de0@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:28:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414CAAD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Beth and Bob Matney : > I also have a copy of Sofonisba Anguissola - First Great women Artist > of the Renaissance which is the English translation of: > Sofonisba Anguissola - Femme Peintre de La Renaissance by Ilya Sandra > Perlingieri Liana Levi Editeur, Paris (1992) pp.223, ills.. > > Has anyone seen the one by Flavio Caroli. Published in Milan,1987. > Hardcover (Italian) Pp. 255. With catalogue of 42 works and > reproductions. List of 24 attributed works also reproduced. List of > works mentioned in historical sources; > > or the large monograph: SOFONISBA ANGUISSOLA E LE SUE SORELLE by > GREGORI, M. (e altri) Corsico 1994. Bross., cm 28x24, pp 437, numer. > ill. a colori e b/n OOh, no. Never seen the other two! Jerusha (adding them to my list!) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 20:33:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1XeNG003863 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1XjwA010321; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1XHnP014346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:33:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1XGk3087399; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:33:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1XCHp087352 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:33:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m163.in-tch.com [216.166.191.163]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2D1OLA25144 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:24:21 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001101c6463f$1a9b30e0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:40:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414CBF9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO You looked very "Eastern European/Jewish" to me when I met you a few years ago--think it's your darkish coloring, and all that hair, of which I'm *still* jealous. Although not of Scandinavian extraction in the *least,* I did grow up in an area settled by a lot of Norwegians, and my family (of generally British Isles extraction ranging from 1 to 4 centuries in the US) did NOT look like my neighbors, who tended to be tall, very blonde, and with that fair skin blondes get. With me, it was even more noticeable than the rest of the family, as I seem to have reverted to some odd combination of recessives (very fair skin with a strong tendency to freckle and blush, blue eyes and dark hair). It wasn't until I went to Ireland a few years ago, that I actually saw a lot of people whom I resembled--it was both odd, and really cool, to see folks with the same kind of coloring, height, etc. I figure I'm just a genetic quirk combining various Irish ancestors (and perhaps the Scots side as well). A couple of friends in my local SCA group are half generic American and half Syrian, and the range of skin tones, hair color/type, and other facial features in the family is actually quite various. I've never figured out quite what ethnic type I would best suit, historical costuming-wise. My particular genetic pool wasn't much painted or portraited ;o). The closest I've come is some of those 16th c. Flemish marketwomen in the genre paintings. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) > > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > Yes in the end all you australian and american, would all be european > > origin. > > Well, um, no, not really. 200 years ago, almost true in the US (but there > were still Native Americans and some Africans). Now add the East Asian, > South Asian, Middle Eastern, South American, Pacific Islander, etc. and > the US population is well on its way to being majority non-European -- > can't remember the last time I heard a demographic prediction of what year > that would occur, but it's not far off. > > Of course every such prediction makes sense only on paper, because in > reality intermarrying gives a lot of people here part-European part-other > ancestry. > > Getting this back to costume: This came up on the list a few years ago, > when we were discussing the typical facial characteristics associated with > particular European historical populations, and how historic > costumes/headdress styles generally developed to flatter the dominant > facial "look" of the local population (e.g. Italian, Germanic, Russian, > Flemish) -- something especially true for Medieval and Renaissance periods > when regional populations were mostly homogeneous. In the US, there is no > dominant "look," and indeed many people here do not have features that can > be uniformly compared to any one particular historic population because > most of us have a mix -- even if it's a mix of various European heritages. > > As someone pointed out at that time, the difference is noticeable when you > look at a group portrait of a European re-enactment group, when pretty > much everyone in the picture is from the same general gene pool, and it's > close to the same gene pool as the population they're re-enacting. Then > compare that with an American re-enactment group; even if everyone's > dressed to the same place/period, their faces show a huge variety of > features, colors, etc. It's something I've found that the Europeans take > for granted because they're used to looking at the same general type of > faces every day. > > Yes, this is changing in much of Europe now, particularly in the larger > cities, but genetically the mixing is way behind what we see in the > States, and it takes a few generations to get a mix significant enough to > affect the overall visual look of a group. Often in a specific locally > based European re-enactment group you can pick out a couple of outliers -- > in the American groups all the faces are different from all the others. > > It is my costuming bane that I have a face that is Middle Eastern filtered > through Russian, which means I look best in Italian, ethnic Greek, and of > course Russian costume ... none of which I am remotely interested in. No, > I had to get interested in Franco-Flemish, me with the tiny forehead and > heavy dark brows and pointy chin... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 20:34:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1YuCo003928 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:34:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1Z15p009811; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:35:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1YjiG014634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:34:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1YinD088520; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:34:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1YesG088389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:34:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIbxI-00066v-9B; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:34:40 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:34:40 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312203440.umsbxr4ys968ssc4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:34:40 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16th CenturySpanishpatterns References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:35:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414CC45.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting monica spence : > Thanks ! This is it! > Best Regards- > Monica > > PS-- Where did you find this??? I think the link to this was on the glittersweet page. Basically, I did a Google Image Search for "Anguissola Infanta" and that was the only one that was all in black! I know that there's some gorgeous paintings of her on the bildindex site -- I just don't know how to find them! I've got a thumbnail page printed, but I can't get "back to that page." *sigh* Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 20:41:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1f8QN004170 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:41:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D1fDfA012330; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:41:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1ev7Q015486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1etKi092766; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D1emcs092680 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m163.in-tch.com [216.166.191.163]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2D1VrA26586 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:31:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <003b01c64640$28775bc0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion><20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com><002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> <20060312195649.gr0damhcfkgw0coo@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16thCenturySpanishpatterns Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:47:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:41:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414CDB9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I've seen it talked about, but not met in person, if you know what I mean. I'm on a lean-and-mean budget for a couple of months, but hope to buy it when things even out.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:56 PM Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16thCenturySpanishpatterns > Oh, yeah. Have you seen the "new" book on Eleanor of Toledo (Moda a > Firenze)? More gorgeous paintings -- most of which I had *never* seen > before! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 21:21:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D2LnLb005733 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D2Lso7024150; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D2LHJR020584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D2LEhk019887; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:21:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D2LBiK019807 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.137.215]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20060313022105.MFJT2202.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:05 -0500 Message-ID: <005701c64644$efe63600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Show and Tell: Take Two X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:21:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414D742.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A while ago I had posted some photos of a couple of my (mostly) finished projects. I couldn't seem to get the site I was using to upload more than the two pictures. I'm trying out the Kodak site instead. (Someone had set up an album at Christmas time just for H-costume, where is that one again? It might be easier...) Sheridan P. > http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=6ru1o2u.m957jna&x=1&y=-x8qkr7 > > If you'd like to save this album, just sign in, or > if you're new to the Gallery, create a free account. > Once you've signed in, you'll be able to view this > album whenever you want and order Kodak prints of > your favorite photos. > > Enjoy! > > Instructions: Click view photos to begin. If you're > an existing member you'll be asked to sign > in. If not, you can join the Gallery for free. > http://www.kodakgallery.com/Register.jsp > > Questions? Visit http://help.kodakgallery.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 21:31:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D2Vs9V006069 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:31:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D2VxAP026687; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:32:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D2Vc5x021896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:31:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D2VbFD027183; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:31:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D2VXlX027055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 19:31:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FIcqL-0005EA-OB; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:31:33 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:31:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20060312213133.7m36ui2um1j4w8wc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:31:33 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: looking for a painting (was:)RE: [h-cost] Re:16thCenturySpanishpatterns References: <000801c645e4$00b41620$cbbfa6d8@pavilion><20060312100524.pd5goei2qjsokc4k@www.goldsword.com><002501c645ea$3fcb7500$cbbfa6d8@pavilion> <20060312195649.gr0damhcfkgw0coo@www.goldsword.com> <003b01c64640$28775bc0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <003b01c64640$28775bc0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:32:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414D99F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Sue Clemenger : > I've seen it talked about, but not met in person, if you know what I mean. > I'm on a lean-and-mean budget for a couple of months, but hope to buy it > when things even out.... I know *exactly* what you mean! The one copy that I've fondled to date I saw through InterLibrary Loan. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 22:33:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D3XvS5008303 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:33:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D3Y1WF010823; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:34:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D3XOlA027877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D3XL8k067434; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3b.socket.net [216.106.88.186]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D3XHi6067387 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:33:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C76C736BF0 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:33:16 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: layers still: Ruff Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:33:23 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:34:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414E829.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO -----Original Message----- <<>> *yes As far as extra fullness in some layers and not others, I can't see how it could work. If you had two lightweight layers with a heavier one between, and both lightweight layers had more fullness than the heavier layer, you'd end up with too much on the outside of every loop. Try your method in paper and see if it works. I think the lightweight vs. heavier layers in the painting may be an illusion and that Occam's Razor is our friend here. Cheers, Melanie *I'll try it when I get a chance. Mother nature seems to want my attention. Another hail and tornado storm headed my way.:P De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 12 23:05:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D45EiR009477 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:05:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D45JAk018671; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:05:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D44up1030650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:04:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D44ssU086790; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D44ofE086673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:04:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D5n2nc016267 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:49:02 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Show and Tell: Take Two Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:09:20 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <005701c64644$efe63600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <005701c64644$efe63600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603122309.20854.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:05:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414EF7F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Sunday 12 March 2006 9:21 pm, Shane & Sheridan wrote: > A while ago I had posted some photos of a couple of my (mostly) finished > projects. I couldn't seem to get the site I was using to upload more than > the two pictures. I'm trying out the Kodak site instead. (Someone had set > up an album at Christmas time just for H-costume, where is that one again? > It might be easier...) It won't let you see anything until you sign up for a free account. -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 00:10:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D5AiCQ011314 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:10:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D5AlVh002716; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D5AE7O037466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D5A9Q6028255; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:10:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D5A6E3028213 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 22:10:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18093 for ; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:41:38 -0600 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:41:36 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) In-Reply-To: <001101c6463f$1a9b30e0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:10:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4414FED7.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Sun, 12 Mar 2006, Sue Clemenger wrote: > You looked very "Eastern European/Jewish" to me when I met you a few > years ago--think it's your darkish coloring, and all that hair, of > which I'm *still* jealous. Partly because of the strong cultural tendency for marriage-within-the-faith, I'm 100% Russian Jewish (so figure some distant Middle Eastern roots way back somewhere). But I'm only second-generation American. My kids, another generation into the American mixing bowl, are half Ashkenazic, with the other half being mostly English with some French Canadian and who-knows-what mixed in. Two completely incompatible looks -- when you see my parents and my in-laws together, you can immediately see they're from different genetic pools. But I can see elements of both in my kids' facial features. I daresay there's no historic "look" that quite matches that! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 02:48:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D7m2V5025542 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:48:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D7m7f5011725; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:48:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D7ljFJ056331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:47:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D7lfkS039913; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:47:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D7lbQT039863 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 03F4036A86 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:47:36 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:47:43 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <001101c645dc$8e252b00$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2D7lbQT039863 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Spring OT was: Danish ancestors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:48:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441523B7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO -----Original Message----- <<>>> *Not quite. There are a those with indigenous family genes mixed in. :) <<>>> *For the past two day my state/USA has been going through it's version of the rites of Spring. Hail from pea size to softball size and today there was approximately 14 tornadoes and a few funnels. Luckily I'm fine but will be seeing the insurance people about a new windshield and if the new texturing on the hood, trunk and roof can be smoothed out Think 5 minutes downpour, nonstop and switch the drops with hail and you might get a picture of how much texturing is there. :P The most of the gutter screens are ripe to shreds. Had a plastic bucket outside, flipped over. It now has 2" holes in it. The outdoor lounge chairs covering is shredded. I have never seen hail this bad in my area. Tornadoes, yes but hail, no. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 03:24:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D8OAs4001615 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:24:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2D8OFlV021232; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:24:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D8O3wf059307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:24:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D8O1lD064680; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:24:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2D8NvGs064608 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:23:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19664 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:55:31 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:55:29 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... In-Reply-To: <20060218230127.te466b75uksoc0wg@www.goldsword.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:24:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44152C2F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I was just going through some stacked-up e-mail -- I tend to catch up in fits and spurts, so sometimes miss things. Plus I have dial-up, so anything that requires lots of image-heavy downloads gets set aside till I have *time*. Anyway, Susan posted lots of picture links. I haven't looked at all of them but of the ones I did see -- yes, as you indicated, lots of Flemish 15th-16th c. fantasy. I took so many pictures of these sorts of weird dresses in Belgium! In addition to the fact that they're all on religious/historic/symbolic figures, it's also useful to note that you rarely find two that are anywhere near alike, which makes it even more obvious that these aren't meant to represent fashionable wear! The "regular" clothing (on portraits, and in genre scenes) tends to be cast-of-a-mold with relatively small differences in features. Rule of thumb: The rarer it is, the less likely to be real. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6.gif > > I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running > > down the "seam". > > I thought that they were buttons! The white dots are almost certainly buttons. I have no idea why she's all stripey, but from her headgear, I wouldn't lay bets that she's a real person, so I'd withhold judgement on this one without knowong the context. Of course, if she's Italian, there's no telling. Another rule of thumb: It's a bad idea to try to reproduce a costume from an artwork without knowing something about the artwork. > Virgin with Saints (Barbara & Catherine of Alexandria) > http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg Not too weird, these. Catherine's outfit pays lip service to the by-now-required surcote but still is an attempt to make her look within range of the accepted fashion. The Barbara is quite passable but very rich as befits the princess she is; the fur oversleeves might be over the top. Headdress is all symbolic on both. > and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink "3 piece suit" on the > saint in the right panel > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg I think that's meant to be a dress that's hitched up at the waist/hip and bloused over. Still dripping with fantasy/foreign elements. > Elijah & the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves > http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two or three ways to do it. > again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 "normal" gowns and that odd > thing in the lower left > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg None of these women are "normal," though the one at the lower right looks realistic. The one on the throne is a rather straighforward queenly image plus a sword -- I think she's Justice. Oh yes, there it is above her head, the first word in the inscription. As for the four women upholding the coat-of-arms: See those words written on their skirts? Those are labels, so you know what characteristic or attribute they stand for. They are too dark to read as-is, but playing around in a photo editor, I think the upper left one might be "Veritas," and the lower left is sage-something. The lower right one is clear: Sobrietas, or Sobriety. Now we know why she has no fantastical elements to her dress! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 06:45:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DBjTIO015742 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:45:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DBjXvB009699; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:45:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DBj8US083523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:45:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DBj5IO098106; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:45:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DBiurN097943 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 04:45:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 86959 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 11:44:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 11:44:50 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313114056.01d789b0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:44:50 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> References: <44143955.6060802@faucet.net> <009801c645f2$83d64e20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <441466EE.3080808@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Monogram alphabets "Regency" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:45:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44155B5D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Anybody point me at a source for "Regency" alphabets for embroidering monograms on shirts? (I have a few from "La Belle Assemblee" but they are mostly later, and more suitable for ladies' handkerchiefs as they are rather fancy.) The date of the costume is actually 1808, so I know it is not technically Regency,. I could make one up as I go along, but it would be really good to have a source. (It might give me an excuse to use my new tambour equipment I bought in a rush after the new 18th century embroidery book turned up!!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 07:11:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DCBOdS022791 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:11:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DCBTLh017226; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:11:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DCAmMi085749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:10:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCAjY7014319; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:10:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCAbbS014190 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EA51D0005 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10820-04 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from Stuckis (ip21.77.78.64.suscom.net [64.78.77.21]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B2E71D0004 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:13:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01cc01c64697$20748130$154d4e40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:10:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:11:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44156172.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO But I can see elements of both in my > kids' facial features. I daresay there's no historic "look" that quite > matches that! > > --Robin I imagine you are right! My grandmother was half English, half Norwegian, and I look just like her--my hair is even turning the same beautiful silver hers did, instead of just gray--so, whatever look that combo produces is me, though in truth, I'm definitely a genetic mutt. I have just enough Native America filtered in from my mom's side to make me turn coppery when I tan. My husband, on the other hand, is 100% Roman Catholic Polish, and only second generation American. The boys look mostly like him, with just traces of me in their features. I'm thinking of researching Polish garb for them, because I think it would suit them, though the Skinny Monkey Boy prefers the Neanderthal look--as little clothing as possible! LOL. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 07:42:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DCgRVk031021 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:42:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DCgW9D025581; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:42:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DCgCcC088258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:42:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCgBq5035809; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:42:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCg8bE035764 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:42:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.184.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.184] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FImNC-0007d4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:42:07 -0500 Message-ID: <44157665.4050600@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:40:53 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:42:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441568B8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Lovely site, Melanie. Your costumes are all wonderful. [Hey...why skip the > 18th century?] :) I have one 18th-c that I made in high school, so it's not quite up to par with the rest of what's up there. I need to make a new one for teaching costume history, but other things are higher priority right now. > Your ruff instructions are great too. I especially like your use of items > just about anybody can get a hold of! Have you seen Jean Honnisette's ruff > instructions? She "starches" > and does the 8's BEFORE gathering to the neck band. But of course in the > period, this seems unlikely. It makes more sense to me to start with a gathered > ruffle and then manipulate it. Me too. I hadn't looked at Hunnisett for ruffs because she focuses on theatrical applications. I've just pulled her out, and she gives several good versions for the stage. It's true that most theatres can't do all the restarching and setting that I do on mine. She shows several that are box-pleated into the band instead of gathered, and I did actually pleat one of my early ones thinking that that would make it easier to figure out where the figure-eights would go. It just makes it much harder to starch! The gathers (or really really tiny cartridge pleats) are really necessary so that the fullness can spring almost immediately from tightly gathered into the neckband to spread wide into the figure-eights. These gathers and the "springing" action are quite visible in some portraits from the second half of the 16th. The first ruff I did was theatrical-style, made with plastic horsehair braid and cartridge-pleated to a neckband. Then I made a doublet with a standing collar and found that they didn't get along because the length of my neck was taken up with the ruff band. The way I do my ruffs now is not only more accurate, it works better. With all of the ruff springing from the top of the band, it sits nicely behind a standing collar, and since I dry them upside-down after starching, they cradle the face like those in the portraits rather than just sitting out flat. > How did you determine how much yardage to use in the ruff? I use math! I make some sample figure-eights of the size I want them to be, and then see how much flat fabric it takes to make, say, a three-inch-long section of figure-eights. Then I decide how wide the ruff will be from neck edge to hem edge and work from my neck circumference to find the ruff circumference. If the ruff is, for example, 36" around, and it takes 12" of flat fabric to make a 3" section of figure-eights, I'll need 144" of fabric. > More would make bigger 8's, no? Would you need a goffering iron with a larger diameter? Yes. I have two of them. The trick is figuring out just how big the 8s should be each time you starch the things. If you make them too tall, there will be spaces between them because there won't be enough of them to make it all the way around. > Why did you attach the 2nd ruff to the neck of the shirt? If I were you, I > take the ruff and neckband off the shirt, put a new band on the shirt and just > baste them together to wear. That way washing is easier, fixing the ruff is > easier, and you can wear the ruff elsewhere...and the shirt w/out a ruff. True. It was an experiment, and we do know that early ones were attached. But ones of that size, probably not, and I wouldn't do it again. It makes it much harder to restarch. Cheers, Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 07:47:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DClRRr031599 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DClWa4026812; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DCkbRK088496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCkaxa038620; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:46:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DCkXJ6038600 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.184.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.184] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FImRU-0000Yi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:46:33 -0500 Message-ID: <4415776F.40901@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:45:19 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruff References: <000601c64631$d8b5c210$0400a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441569E4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > If you put an extra layer on the inside of the ruff neckband, you can take > that off to wash and sew on again more easily. Yes, but the tops of mine also get dirty where they touch my chin, as I unfortunately have oily skin. Plus the shaping of the starch starts to "break down" after a few wearings just from getting bashed about hugging people, leaning back against things, and the exigencies of travel. I do have a nice "case" for carrying them in, but starch is a temporary thing. It just makes me appreciate the hard work of all those starchers in the 16th and 17th centuries! Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:27:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDRLLE000518 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:27:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDRQBP006873; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:27:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDR2V0093182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:27:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDQtUT070427; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:26:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu (mail.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDQi7h070246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:26:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldh@ece.gatech.edu) Received: from localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDQiMA003442 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu ([199.77.227.200]) by localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 19428-08 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:26:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.95] (adsl-065-012-177-048.sip.asm.bellsouth.net [65.12.177.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDQFNf003352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:26:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:26:19 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ece.gatech.edu Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:27:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415733E.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:39:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDdcPU000921 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDdhv1011516; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDdKbS094784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:39:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDdJGc080690; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:39:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav9.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDd7EJ080551 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:39:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:39:07 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:39:06 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 13:39:07.0083 (UTC) FILETIME=[802F39B0:01C646A3] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415761F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Greeting from a fellow UGA grad. I have MFA in Fabric Design with a minor in computer art. 1997 grad. Miss it too. I'm now in PA... waaayyy up north. I miss the warmth of the south but not the tornados. Where are you? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting > > Greetings! > > I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of > Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into > computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community > theater settings. > > I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait of > a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking > closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I > have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to > what fabrics would be likely. > > Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a > larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. > http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html > > Thanks! > Lonnie > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:46:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDkv4S001128 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDl2fN014466; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:47:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDkjEN095928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:46:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDkhJN087308; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:46:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu (mail.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDkdki087236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:46:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldh@ece.gatech.edu) Received: from localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDkcMA008298 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu ([199.77.227.200]) by localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 20430-09 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.95] (adsl-065-012-177-048.sip.asm.bellsouth.net [65.12.177.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDjgNf008002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4415778A.7090700@ece.gatech.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:46 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ece.gatech.edu Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:47:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441577D6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I am on the research faculty at Georgia Tech, but a couple of years ago, my wife and I moved back to Athens, GA (location of UGA for the non-alumni). A bit of a commute, but I don't go in to campus every day. Lonnie, p.s. I graduated with the BFA in 1985. Becky wrote: > Greeting from a fellow UGA grad. I have MFA in Fabric Design with a > minor in computer art. 1997 grad. Miss it too. I'm now in PA... > waaayyy up north. I miss the warmth of the south but not the tornados. > Where are you? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" > > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting > > >> >> Greetings! >> >> I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University >> of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on >> into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in >> community theater settings. >> >> I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham >> "Portrait of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a >> velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in >> the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of >> some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. >> >> Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up >> a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the >> detail. >> http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html >> >> Thanks! >> Lonnie >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:52:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDq3ot001301 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:52:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDq9VF016573; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:52:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDoPf7096516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDoPci091049; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDoLjj090924 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:50:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW200BY7JR401L2@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:49:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:49:50 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting In-reply-to: <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:52:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157909.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Lonnie and welcome! I'm a theatre person too (BA and MA in theatre costume), and pretty new to this list. I'm familiar with this painting-- I do 16th C. Clothing in the SCA-- so here's my advice: I think the doublet drapes too well in the sleeve to be suede. Looks like velvet to me-- you might try heavy cotton velvet, not that awful acetate velvet that they sell for clothing , to reproduce this. Make sure there is no plastic backing on the fabric if you use upholstery velvet. The person wearing it will just die under the lights! Best Regards- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie D. Harvel Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:57:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDvoZu001524 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:57:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDvtMO018874; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:57:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDvSvf097469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDvRqY097289; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDvPDI097258 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v1so1306195nzb for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:57:25 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=M6I5bioeiOhQEObQEM2HLJET8gV0VNPfd0ExXG7jdk+Yu8bUBZa6W0saP0wdbsHTzjn734DOrXnkXevyxF+ACkURTsZOyRrLW49w3A8PIDknF0agWuV8DCQEKFhb9ccP2rxTnhKDYWOEwvdbdQxSmKkGpAL6Dx2ikR4TZGqibKk= Received: by 10.37.18.57 with SMTP id v57mr459869nzi; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.53 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:56:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603130556q607ee358m6b4999221446b076@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:56:54 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2DDvPDI097258 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cluny lace company X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:57:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157A63.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Has anyone here ever ordered from this company? "Cluny Lace Co, Ltd." Their laces look very nice. I am about to do a project requiring large amounts of lace trim and I am looking for a good source. http://www.clunylace.com/index.htm -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 08:57:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDvuMB001528 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:57:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DDw1J7028826; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:58:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDvj7V097521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDvjMs097594; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DDvhOi097573 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:57:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l8so246972nzf for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:57:43 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=oLwX/PoynmAToSjtjTEcLFDEy5k0Z4Ycqv9353Mw2GPyqurX+er1hRVbsrHjLy1Z7Js/4pVxahx6i4DIM7Mpqqgkvww/tgkfWOS0iMLrVMlSyTfS60STKgWrplhghNSzICgIRYq7jRUtZ9Pv/CsikRERGtNDx2WjiBhttWb2jzQ= Received: by 10.36.84.20 with SMTP id h20mr3541633nzb; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:56:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.53 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:56:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603130556q607ee358m6b4999221446b076@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:56:54 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2DDvhOi097573 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cluny lace company X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:58:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157A69.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Has anyone here ever ordered from this company? "Cluny Lace Co, Ltd." Their laces look very nice. I am about to do a project requiring large amounts of lace trim and I am looking for a good source. http://www.clunylace.com/index.htm -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:02:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DE2F5T001688 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:02:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DE2Lcg020854; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:02:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DE1kPZ098354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:01:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DE1jt3001441; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:01:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DE1ffZ001258 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:01:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.208.143f1f19 (4568) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:01:29 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <208.143f1f19.3146d539@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:01:29 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Monogram alphabets "Regency" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:02:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157B6D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:46:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Anybody point me at a source for "Regency" alphabets for embroidering monograms on shirts? Men's shirts, as well as women's body linen and household linens, were generally marked with what is called "marking stitches." This is basically little tiny cross stitches, kind of like counted thread stitching, and consist of the person's initials and perhaps a number, if you have more than 1. You can probably find a graph for these, but they are easy to work out yourself. They didn't go in for fancy monogramming--at least, I have never seen any. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:08:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DE8Qd8001913 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:08:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DE8Vsd023526; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:08:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DE6m1r099124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:06:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DE6mSb006434; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:06:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DE6jGG006357 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:06:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22607 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:38:20 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:38:18 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval clerical underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:08:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157CDF.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Below forwarded from another list. I could swear we've talked about this before -- it's in one of the monastic rules, I think, perhaps the passage that mentions "femoralia" that gets brought up every so often? Anyone have a source? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- I think that medieval monastic legislation on dress often specified that underwear had to be worn by monks or friars when going outside the monastery: i.e. there was a pragmatic concern for modesty when travelling about, which would not apply, of course, at burial. I've just looked in Giancarlo Rocca, ed., La sostanza dell'effimero: gli abiti degli ordini religiosi in occidente (Rome: Edizioni Paoline, 2000) for verification, but without success. Someone else may have a source to hand. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:10:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEAibF001995 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEAnFM024518; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEAVAi099869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEAUo8009873; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:10:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEARHq009708 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:10:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW200ABKKOS7HE7@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:02 -0500 From: monica spence In-reply-to: <20060312213133.7m36ui2um1j4w8wc@www.goldsword.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:10:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44157D69.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi All- I subbed as the instructor for a Clothing History class a couple of weeks ago. One of the instructors notes stated that the ruff was a "descendant" of a chemise with a drawstring neck. I have been a costumer since I was 12 (oh, boy am I dating myself), with a BA and MA in Theatre costume and 18 years of 16th C. clothing research in the SCA that resulted in a Laurel-- and now I teach fashion on the college level, so I guess I'm pretty intense about my clothing.... Anyway I have never seen anything about a drawstring that is Medieval or Renaissance. As a matter of fact something I read said it was the result of the "I need 100 chemises fast" mindset of the original Ren Faires. The chemises I have seen--- and this is only in paintings, mind you-- show no indication of a drawstring in the neck-- either a high neckline or low neckline. Can anyone help me on this? My professor friend has said she found a reference in "several books" but is more than willing to look at what I find , and change her lecture, as necessary. We both hate the idea of disseminating incorrect information to students. Thanks a bunch-- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:25:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEPf2B002922 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEPkm8031081; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEPROZ001583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:25:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEPRUc022238; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:25:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEPNP1022159 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:25:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m74.in-tch.com [216.166.191.74]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2DEGWA27362 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:16:32 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002a01c646aa$fabcce20$4abfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441580EA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Could be either, I think. Slashing wasn't exactly unknown on woven fabrics , but there are a couple of doublets in _Patterns of Fashion_ that are made, at least in part, of suede and/or leather. It could be velvet or another piled fabric, or really, really nice wool (given that this fellow isn't an aristocrat), OR leather. Think you'd have to experiment with drape and whatnot.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting > > Greetings! > > I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of > Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into > computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community > theater settings. > > I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait > of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but > looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and > collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am > curious as to what fabrics would be likely. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:27:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DERJMc002982 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEROX3014928; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DER04N001822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:27:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEQxom023672; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:27:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52113.mail.yahoo.com (web52113.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DEQwsB023525 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:26:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 97112 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 14:26:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=3C/Pv9K113OvhqDwPge6bGvNbox3OjjlwOWbIVl1LE0lAlvtX8hLmIph7k7WxBGWUP58WmsO3azSOck62PUnu0HI9h/4pz0GP17WUCIadPjQVlZRU4G+J4RFNfanO7RGkZp/nBd55UHW7A3md/4SsFof3At3lMveyEPNu2uwtfw= ; Message-ID: <20060313142651.97110.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:26:51 EST Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:26:51 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603131327.k2DDR2Ro070567@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Greetings and question about a painting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415814C.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Lonnie, Welcome to the List. :-) Im apt to lean toward wool for this one. It doesn't have the typical luminosity that silk velvets would have had at the time and the hand of the fabric looks pretty dense. As to the pinking though, any fabric will take that kind of decoration. It's a matter of how well it will stand up to regular abuse. A judicious application of an adhesive on the back side before pinking will help just about anything endure abuse a little longer. Interesting though how it appears that his smock looks like it could be red. That's vanishingly rare. Im wondering where the closure is? Back seems illogical for men - perhaps down the far side? The collar looks to be hanging asymmetrically. Kathy > I have a question about the fabric/material used in > the Beham "Portrait > of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess > was a velvet, but > looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work > in the trim and > collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede > of some kind. I am > curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:27:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DERQdi002995 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DERVH0022538; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEOtfi001478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:24:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEOs8d021721; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:24:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DEOmOP021532 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:24:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 78988 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 14:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 14:24:42 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313142339.01d86988@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:24:44 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Monogram alphabets "Regency" In-Reply-To: <208.143f1f19.3146d539@aol.com> References: <208.143f1f19.3146d539@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:27:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158153.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 14:01 13/03/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:46:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > >Anybody point me at a source for "Regency" alphabets for embroidering >monograms on shirts? > > >Men's shirts, as well as women's body linen and household linens, were >generally marked with what is called "marking stitches." This is >basically little >tiny cross stitches, kind of like counted thread stitching, and consist of >the person's initials and perhaps a number, if you have more than >1. You can >probably find a graph for these, but they are easy to work out yourself. >They didn't go in for fancy monogramming--at least, I have never seen any. Thank you Ann - I should have remembered that. Having a bit of a ditzy morning! You are right, I can work that out by myself. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:33:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEX6Dq003181 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEXAmx002163; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEWW8f002496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEWSsI028576; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52103.mail.yahoo.com (web52103.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.106]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DEWQ0c028467 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 89250 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 14:32:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jRPAsBiUzq+Uqh17y9CrRXCQ895eMGzNAz2JMtqsKeY7pOQriFghn09Lz67g8+PcY5/t9fsZCQrLd3JPwqEpTc92fnqNez4zGkmHLtTaPn17p0CfbOm8QmVIVCNlTNPQpzZf2pZnl4RgAIDWrgbPHkFp8O83vju5HIYUdx5wB5c= ; Message-ID: <20060313143221.89248.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:32:21 EST Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:32:21 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441582A6.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hard not to seem fetishistic when one has such a preoccupation with what goes on under one's skirts. ;-) I'm doing a bit of byproduct research at the moment and can't figure out why there is such a clearly understood, but as-of-yet not terribly well supported belief that English women didn't wear underwear for, at the very least the 1500-1600 block of time. They were worn at other points in time - bikini type appear in illuminations through the middle ages. All over continental Europe at various periods they were the norm. Thus far I have tracked the usage like this: >From the Middle East to Spain, >From Spain to Italy, >From Italy to France, and only until after the French Revolution, does England cave in and cover up. (Or so I have found without sources thus far) Best I can find right now are two implied statements from Fynes Morryson and Samuel Pepys. Neither actually out right say "English women don't wear underwear", the implication is through their reaction to continental women that do. Just where is this coming from??? Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:33:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEX8EV003182 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEXEGZ018936; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEWvbK002548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEWugD029086; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.176.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DEWpwN028911 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:32:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lenastrid@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 20198 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 14:32:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=N2scFWZn8v5/VVGZdNZkjb3gupMygsGwWWeKrq/j+VF5/tU8Io70+soaUUnbM4f0P1GwqyZQ2AsELSHSuGL53Ilp7WSLAwY+H2NN1mlpPdgjMJhrWoY0f3D1ZxLJGNn9xvImGALeMi2yrdQZwKseFBvp71gFF7TksWCu+g6Do64= ; Message-ID: <20060313143246.20196.qmail@web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.158.62.84] by web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:32:46 GMT Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:32:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Lena Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval clerical underwear To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:33:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441582AA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have that one somewhere. I'll go look in my office sometime in the week. I'm moving house right now, but I'm fairly certain I know where those papers should be. /Lena --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > Below forwarded from another list. I could swear > we've talked about this > before -- it's in one of the monastic rules, I > think, perhaps the passage > that mentions "femoralia" that gets brought up every > so often? Anyone have > a source? > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > I think that medieval monastic legislation on dress > often specified that > underwear had to be worn by monks or friars when > going outside the > monastery: i.e. there was a pragmatic concern for > modesty when travelling > about, which would not apply, of course, at burial. > I've just looked in > Giancarlo Rocca, ed., La sostanza dell'effimero: gli > abiti degli ordini > religiosi in occidente (Rome: Edizioni Paoline, > 2000) for verification, > but without success. Someone else may have a source > to hand. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:37:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEbJPD003307 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEbO48004153; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEb3oM003190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:37:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEb2pS033144; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEavos032933 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:36:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1389.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.111]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CD1BE681 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:36:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:36:51 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> <002a01c646aa$fabcce20$4abfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <002a01c646aa$fabcce20$4abfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060313143648.D2CD1BE681@cardassian.kabelfoon.nl> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441583A4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A nice wool works. I have made this one. Unfortionally I don't have a good picture of it. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/16thcent/16woman/IF3.jpg Sue Clemenger wrote: >Could be either, I think. Slashing wasn't exactly unknown on woven fabrics >, but there are a couple of doublets in _Patterns of Fashion_ that are >made, at least in part, of suede and/or leather. >It could be velvet or another piled fabric, or really, really nice wool >(given that this fellow isn't an aristocrat), OR leather. Think you'd have >to experiment with drape and whatnot.... >--Sue > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:26 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting > > > > >>Greetings! >> >>I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of >>Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into >>computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community >>theater settings. >> >>I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait >>of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but >>looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and >>collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am >>curious as to what fabrics would be likely. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:39:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEdRe1003375 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:39:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEdXuj023096; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:39:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEdFTr003520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:39:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEdEco035091; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:39:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEdAnF034966 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.66]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060313143904.KKHC16513.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:39:04 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060313083248.02773a30@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:38:59 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rp070567@net.indra.com> References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rp070567@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Greetings and question about a painting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:39:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158425.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO To me, it looks like a high quality woolen. well fulled and napped. Beth At 07:27 AM 3/13/2006, Lonnie wrote: > >I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait >of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but >looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and >collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am >curious as to what fabrics would be likely. > >Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a >larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. >http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html > >Thanks! >Lonnie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 09:48:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEmTVn003646 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:48:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DEmYA1009664; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:48:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEm2Bx004491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:48:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DElvPe042279; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DElq61042184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:47:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27782 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FIoKx-0007WW-9z for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:47:56 -0600 Message-ID: <00a501c646ad$1c3e0170$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c6463f$1a9b30e0$a3bfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:22:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:48:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158642.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have the Finnest face (and nose) in all the land--maybe I should look into what was worn there. I'm hopelessly Franco-Flemish in garb taste too, though. I'm curious about this discussion about typical facial features, though--does anyone remember enough about when it took place or what the subject lines were to help me find it in the archives? This has been a topic of fascination for me for quite a while. I have friends and friends of friends who are from eastern Asia and Africa who can look at someone and immediately tell what geographical area or what tribe the Americans they see walking down the street are originally from. It absolutely knocks my socks off! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:00:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF0AMM004068 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF0FBE015325; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEwcH1006098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:58:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEwbZP051499; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:58:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DEwVjN051335 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:58:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23147 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:30:04 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:30:03 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear In-Reply-To: <20060313143221.89248.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441588FF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Kathy Page wrote: > I'm doing a bit of byproduct research at the moment and can't figure > out why there is such a clearly understood, but as-of-yet not terribly > well supported belief that English women didn't wear underwear for, at > the very least the 1500-1600 block of time. They were worn at other > points in time - bikini type appear in illuminations through the > middle ages. All over continental Europe at various periods they were > the norm. I think it is not safe to generalize about "through the middle ages" and "all over continental Europe." Certainly in Gothic-era Western Europe (before 1500) there is no good evidence for women wearing anything under their shifts. There are a handful of images that get trotted out as underwear examples whenever this comes up, but as we've hashed out multiple times on this list (and as Heather Rose Jones ably showed during her presentation on this topic at the Medieval Congress a few years ago*) each of these is clearly designed to be an exception to accepted practice: e.g. an image of a cross-dressing saint, a satiric view of an uppity woman taking the man's role, etc. Balance that with a handful of written references that make it clear that women were expected to be panty-less as a norm, and a huge quantity of images in which underwear might be expected but is absent, and the case is really quite strong. I certainly don't know of a vast quantity of medieval European illuminations of "bikini" underwear on women. On men, yes. In Roman art, yes (but then possibly in certain circumstances only, e.g. athletic wear). Maybe one or two medieval images I can think of that fall into the category above of deliberate exceptions that prove the rule. As you move away from England, and away from Western Europe, you might have a better case. I do agree that the 16th c. saw the movement of female underwear into Western Europe, as you have described: > From the Middle East to Spain, > From Spain to Italy, > From Italy to France, I believe there's a reference to one or two sets of drawers in Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe, but no evidence that she actually wore them (vs. them being gifts from foreign ambassadors and novelties). On the other hand, her wardrobe accounts record vast quantities of those items that she did wear on a daily basis, down to pins by the thousands and many personal items, and one would think that if she wore drawers routinely they would be recorded along with the rest of the wardrobe. > Best I can find right now are two implied statements from Fynes > Morryson and Samuel Pepys. Neither actually out right say "English > women don't wear underwear", the implication is through their reaction > to continental women that do. That's exactly the sort of evidence you're likely to find. If something isn't routinely worn, isn't considered normal or typical, people don't talk or write about it much, except when they have occasion to talk about those who do wear it (e.g. those bizarre foreigners). The absence of other evidence is a pretty good indicator that the items simply weren't around -- not just the pictures that show men with drawers and women without, but also documentary evidence, e.g. the lack of mention of drawers along with chemises, caps, and other linen goods in milliners' shop lists. An analogy: How often do people today talk about women not wearing neckties? If you were trying to show through documents and artwork that women in the USA c. 2000 don't wear neckties, what kind of evidence would you have? > Just where is this coming from??? Not sure what your question is -- you mean, where do people get the idea that English women didn't wear underwear till, at best, late in the 16th c., and most likely not till later? Perhaps it's true? If you find solid evidence to the contrary, I know this list will be very happy to hear it. --Robin *coming soon to a volume of Medieval Clothing & Textiles ... vol. 4 I hope (right, Heather?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:02:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF2Vx7004144 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:02:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF2a5U016451; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:02:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DF0toL006856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DF0l3d054073; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:00:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52115.mail.yahoo.com (web52115.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DF0ill053914 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 22070 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 15:00:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=2YhHGGg8SKoU55Ll1c7E8/UUbA6qy7dI/RGt+ZYt/Z2n9PUKyEA3bv1lh5vegrHmwOiV5j6f5au//+mcJzEcJgiW1ZOTPWxMrtORY4qMC8U7DGgWQ4f+Xbd03KVETi6B3NRhwTD/FxlbUt8PboogwlJ95fOPH6D3qvstuRa4of0= ; Message-ID: <20060313150034.22068.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:34 EST Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:34 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Trying to find original source X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:02:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415898C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm sprucing up a pair of kid gloves to look more elizabethan, and have decided this is what I want them to look like: http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg (hopefully tht link works, it said it uploaded just fine, but I couldn't get it to open myself. weird.) The drawing is from Cunningtons' "Handbook of English Costume in the Sixteenth Century". When I checked her source for the drawing, it was not an original painting as I had hoped, but another book (Kelly's "Shakespearean Costume"). I know I have seen these gloves in a painting just recently but I can't for the life of me recall the painting itself. I had found a close-ish Spanish one, but it's hard to tell. Does it ring a bell for anyone? Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:09:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF9vaM004379 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:09:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DF9xh6019898; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:10:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DF96TS009251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:09:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DF91QS061464; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:09:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DF8v2W061266 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:08:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2DF8ki22229.; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:08:46 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:08:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:08:23 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2DF8v2W061266 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:10:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158B47.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO As I've mentioned before, I found it hard to believe that women used not to wear drawers until I saw the Rowlandson print "Exhibition Stare Case", which shows 18th century women tumbling down stairs and obviously not wearing any. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:15:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFFPEE004581 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:15:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFFTMQ022573; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:15:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFFDDo011475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:15:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFFBEr066788; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:15:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFF8OC066719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27802 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FIolK-0002kT-Jp for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:15:11 -0600 Message-ID: <00a901c646b0$eace39d0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:15:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:15:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158C92.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" >> Elijah & the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves >> http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg > > I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think > I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not > for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a > horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of > nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the > slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; > it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two > or three ways to do it. I've been pondering this sleeve style for a while. It is seen pretty often, and occasionally on non-saints, but... I think there's at least one symbolic element to it, and I'm pretty sure it's the fringe that often shows up. I can't think of a single occasion when that sleeve fringe did not appear on a Jewish/Old Testament figure. Even though the short sleeves worn over a chemise look is realistic, I think that perhaps it shows up in paintings/illuminations/etc a bit more than necessary in a representative fashion sense, as an easy way to display that symbolic fringe. If anyone is interested in that pleated bustle effect style dress, just wait around a few days; that's the style I post about all the freakin' time! =} (Or at least the later variant of it.) If you want to see more pictures of that style, you can wade through the temp files I have online: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/ http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/ http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/ There's all sorts of other stuff in there too, but I'm too busy/lazy to pick out the bustle ones at the moment. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:21:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFL1Yd004791 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:21:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFL6Kc025019; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:21:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFKiXe014573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFKg1L072416; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:20:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFKdKv072197 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:20:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:20:24 -0800 Message-ID: <44158DC7.9010301@msn.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:20:39 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 15:20:24.0327 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6811170:01C646B1] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:21:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44158DE2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Monica, this has been discussed numerous time on this list. I think you will be successful in searching the archives for it. I suggest you try the archives listed on this page: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume but also check out this mail archive: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume You can search more easily there in my opinion. As to the topic, IMHO, you may both be right. I think you'll find the jist of the conversations to say that it is fair to say that the ruff developed from the chemise irrespective of how the neck line was handled. OTH, I if I remember how the discussions have gone, you simply won't find any substantial evidence that drawn necklines existed or were prevalent enough to say that was the source. Clearly, they are used extensively in Ren. Fair. situations. :-) Sg The Power of AND …Or how I learned to stay focused on work and still go fly fishing. By Eric Balinski “… a key aspect of highly visionary companies: They do not oppress themselves with what we call the Tyranny of the OR – the rational view that cannot easily accept paradox, which cannot live with two seemingly contradictory forces or ideas at the same time. The Tyranny of OR pushes people to believe that things must be either A or B but not both.” _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:45:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFjaFQ005800 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:45:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFjfrs003951; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:45:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFjOXo025799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFjMw5097607; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFjF3h097483 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:45:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23694 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:16:49 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:16:47 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors) In-Reply-To: <00a501c646ad$1c3e0170$e100a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:45:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441593A5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, E House wrote: > I'm curious about this discussion about typical facial features, > though--does anyone remember enough about when it took place or what the > subject lines were to help me find it in the archives? I have one post saved from Nov. 24, 2002, with the subject line "body type periods." It refers back to an even earlier thread, so this wasn't the original discussion. And again in Nov. 2003, with a subject line "Facial and body types & costume", which also refers back to the original thread. I cannot find the original thread. Certain things tend to come up over and over. > This has been a topic of fascination for me for quite a while. I have > friends and friends of friends who are from eastern Asia and Africa > who can look at someone and immediately tell what geographical area or > what tribe the Americans they see walking down the street are > originally from. It absolutely knocks my socks off! A Ukranian at the Medieval Congress once nailed me not only as Ukranian, but correctly placed my family as from Kiev. On one guess. Yow. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:47:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFlNAB005864 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:47:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFlS5k003364; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:47:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFk2lD026122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFk1PA098317; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFjwuU098279 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:46:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imcozit@verizon.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([71.245.169.101]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IW200LE0P4H5TU6@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:45:58 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:46:44 -0500 From: Cozit / Liz To: h-costume@indra.com, h-needlework@ansteorra.org Message-id: <441593E4.6090907@verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Theatre museum in London closing? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:47:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44159410.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The following was sent me a few minutes ago from a friend... Sending e-mail certainly wouldn't hurt! (sent to h-needlework as well, because there is a tie-in with the decoration of costume) -Liz Dear Friends and Colleagues, >> Some of you may have already heard disturbing rumours about the imminent closure of London's Theatre Museum. This shocking and completely unexpected news has taken the museum staff completely by surprise, and the future now looks grim for the world's greatest collection of British theatrical memorabilia. The V&A, which runs the Theatre Museum, argues that no one cares what happens to it. I would urge you and/or anyone else you know who feels strongly about the future of the museum to prove them wrong, and write and protest to the Director of the V&A (who's decision this is) at the following address: Mark Jones Director Victoria & Albert Museum email: mark.jones@vam.ac.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:50:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFoWTv006454 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:50:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFobce006376; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:50:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFmfUI027499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:48:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFmbV2001180; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:48:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFmWFn001079 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:48:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24710.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.16]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C54426284D for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:48:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003e01c646b5$a0541e10$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00a901c646b0$eace39d0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:48:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:50:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441594CD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Yes i also have a quote somewhere, about the maids in Amsterdam wearing trousers each time they had to pollish the windows. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Netherton" >>> Elijah & the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves >>> http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg >> >> I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I >> think >> I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not >> for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a >> horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of >> nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find >> the >> slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; >> it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two >> or three ways to do it. > > I've been pondering this sleeve style for a while. It is seen pretty > often, and occasionally on non-saints, but... I think there's at least one > symbolic element to it, and I'm pretty sure it's the fringe that often > shows up. I can't think of a single occasion when that sleeve fringe did > not appear on a Jewish/Old Testament figure. Even though the short sleeves > worn over a chemise look is realistic, I think that perhaps it shows up in > paintings/illuminations/etc a bit more than necessary in a representative > fashion sense, as an easy way to display that symbolic fringe. > > If anyone is interested in that pleated bustle effect style dress, just > wait around a few days; that's the style I post about all the freakin' > time! =} (Or at least the later variant of it.) If you want to see more > pictures of that style, you can wade through the temp files I have online: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp/ > http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/ > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/ > There's all sorts of other stuff in there too, but I'm too busy/lazy to > pick out the bustle ones at the moment. > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:50:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFotk3007430 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:50:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFp0Gh005910; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:51:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFofi7028478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:50:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFoZJP003199; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:50:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFoNPA002813 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:50:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2DFoGi27752.; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:50:16 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:50:16 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:50:02 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2DFoNPA002813 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:51:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441594E4.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to be that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, not drawstrings. 17th century reenactors commonly do make shifts with drawstrings, presumably because that's how we would make modern garments that look like that (i.e. "peasant" or "gypsy"-style blouses). I'm not a Tudor expert, but presumably the ruff developed from a chemise neck gathered into a ruffle? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 10:57:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFvUYg009809 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:57:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DFvZPV009577; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:57:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFurVr031311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:56:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DFuoob009322; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:56:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web36510.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36510.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DFulOC009164 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:56:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 23582 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 15:56:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4rkd8Wxx6L1bTilDEKxyXd2uOZHNskLVNlzE2m0fi3GigJ+W4Ti1gfwjuF9LKijqeKVLP0x/kXlmacF9aK2KOsBXP504qecu1wd0Oz+c8JLSr3ICcO8vvSbBNY1OubKxpAJwa0uSD5UXSmkA317v0aKlDgxYFJxrt7hH2GxMyXg= ; Message-ID: <20060313155641.23580.qmail@web36510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.169.12.111] by web36510.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:56:41 PST Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:56:41 -0800 (PST) From: Mary To: h-costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Springhill costume collection on tour X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:57:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415966F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I saw this posted on another list -- and forgive me if this is a duplicate (I'm way behind on this list). Springhill has a costume collection that is touring around Ireland this year and next. http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits/w-findaplace/w-springhill.htm In case anyone is lucky enough to live in Ireland or be visiting soon.... The website has photos of some of their costume collection and an article about the items on tour. I really love the green pelisse -- yummy!! ~mary «:*´`´`*:»§«.»§«:*´`´`*:».«:*´`´`*:»§«.»§«:*´`´`*:» "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 11:04:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DG4geL014562 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:04:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DG4kA7012760; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:04:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DG43kP034797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:04:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DG3o6T015511; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:03:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DG3aId015247 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:03:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24710.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.16]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 69C8A26289C for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:03:29 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005501c646b7$b8e431c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:03:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:04:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415981E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Kate, Excactly what i also have read. Arm frills as well. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises > We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to > be that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, > not drawstrings. 17th century reenactors commonly do make shifts with > drawstrings, presumably because that's how we would make modern garments > that look like that (i.e. "peasant" or "gypsy"-style blouses). > I'm not a Tudor expert, but presumably the ruff developed from a chemise > neck gathered into a ruffle? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 11:07:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DG7SY0014675 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:07:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DG7XcD014049; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:07:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DG7A4x035875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:07:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DG75o1018523; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:07:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav16.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DG6ncB018218 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:06:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:06:45 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:06:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:06:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 16:06:45.0587 (UTC) FILETIME=[2043AA30:01C646B8] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:07:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441598C5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Monica, I'm wondering where her sources come from...how old they are. Karl Kohler era costumers have been passed as almost biblical until recently. This might be why she thinks the shifts were drawstrung. I would offer her the portraiture you've been looking at and have a good discussion about this topic. Good luck! Kelly > Anyway I have never seen anything about a drawstring that is Medieval or > Renaissance. As a matter of fact something I read said it was the result > of > the > "I need 100 chemises fast" mindset of the original Ren Faires. The > chemises > I have seen--- and this is only in paintings, mind you-- show no > indication > of a drawstring in the neck-- either a high neckline or low neckline. > > Can anyone help me on this? My professor friend has said she found a > reference in "several books" but is more than willing to look at what I > find > , and change her lecture, as necessary. We both hate the idea of > disseminating incorrect information to students. > > Thanks a bunch-- > Monica Spence > (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 11:28:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DGSxCb015540 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:28:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DGT4g9024710; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:29:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DGSXQq039207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:28:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DGSUQH037600; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:28:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav2.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DGSQs6037530 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:28:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:28:26 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:28:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> <002a01c646aa$fabcce20$4abfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:28:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 16:28:26.0184 (UTC) FILETIME=[277B0480:01C646BB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:29:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44159DD0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO It looks very much like velvet to me, and velvet slashes nicely, especially on the bias. Kelly >> I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait >> of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but >> looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and >> collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 11:32:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DGWGvq015679 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:32:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DGWL9C026186; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:32:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DGW0ne039681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:32:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DGVvct040885; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:31:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [216.148.227.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DGVsWA040726 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:31:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter73.comcast.net ([204.127.197.155](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060313163149m13001loa9e>; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:31:49 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter73.comcast.net; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:31:47 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:31:47 +0000 Message-Id: <031320061631.16731.44159E73000C79B50000415B22073007939C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:32:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44159E95.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Is there anywhere I can see how this is done? This is the first time I've heard about this technique. I was always under the belief that drawstrings were used in the neckline and cuffs. Since I have to make myself some new chemises this is a good time to learn the new technique (new to me). Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Kate M Bunting" > We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to be > that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, not > drawstrings. 17th century reenactors commonly do make shifts with drawstrings, > presumably because that's how we would make modern garments that look like that > (i.e. "peasant" or "gypsy"-style blouses). > I'm not a Tudor expert, but presumably the ruff developed from a chemise neck > gathered into a ruffle? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 11:53:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DGrBvU016518 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:53:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DGrGwW004225; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:53:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DGqKS6043299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:52:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DGptGJ060209; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:51:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DGpg4V059835 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:51:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:51:31 -0800 Message-ID: <4415A319.8000204@msn.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:51:37 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises References: <031320061631.16731.44159E73000C79B50000415B22073007939C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <031320061631.16731.44159E73000C79B50000415B22073007939C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 16:51:31.0286 (UTC) FILETIME=[6110CF60:01C646BE] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:53:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415A37C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Roscelin, this depends a lot on the style...can you show us a picture of what you are trying to make? Sg roscelinlimoges@comcast.net wrote: >Is there anywhere I can see how this is done? This is the first time I've heard about this technique. I was always under the belief that drawstrings were used in the neckline and cuffs. Since I have to make myself some new chemises this is a good time to learn the new technique (new to me). > >Roscelin > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 11:54:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DGsInP016569 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DGsNeX017993; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DGrpaW043513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:53:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DGrjZk061756; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:53:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DGrXS9061511 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:53:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:52:27 -0800 Message-ID: <4415A35B.5010104@msn.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:52:43 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trying to find original source References: <20060313150034.22068.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060313150034.22068.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 16:52:27.0938 (UTC) FILETIME=[82D53820:01C646BE] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415A3BF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Boogers, link didn't work...... Kathy Page wrote: >I'm sprucing up a pair of kid gloves to look more >elizabethan, and have decided this is what I want them >to look like: >http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg >(hopefully tht link works, it said it uploaded just > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 12:54:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DHsFjn019995 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:54:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DHsJ8c032027; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:54:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DHqUPL053128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:52:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DHqMhT021115; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DHqHtr020991 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:52:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.154] (pm5-154.eos.net [205.133.149.154]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k2DHqEhI007227 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:52:15 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:40:12 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603130133.k2D1XH5J087411@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:54:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415B1CC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My family is mostly Irish, though you can't tell by my name. My brother and I don't look very Irish, but my father's family certainly does. I grew up in Pittsburgh, where there is a very large Polish population. So we always fit in pretty well with the short, dark-haired Poles. Now I live in Cincinnati, which has a huge German-ancestry population. Everyone is tall and blonde, and here I am -- little and dark-haired. My husband's family is all tall and blonde. When we visit Pittsburgh, my husband always says he feels a head taller than everyone else, though here in Cincinnati he feels just average. My parents have moved, and when we attend the church closest to their house, it's usually full of another short, dark-haired group -- Italians. My husband calls it the Mafia Church, which may actually be true. There is quite a bit of Mafia in Pittsburgh. There was a little Italian restaurant a few miles from the house I grew up in that was reputed to be popular with the Mafia, and one of my high school friends used to bartend at Mafia weddings (other weddings too, of course). One of my former bosses here in Cincinnati used to think I made the Mafia stuff up. She didn't believe there really WAS a Mafia anymore! Costume content: None, really. Although I hear that because of the Polish population now being more prosperous, ridiculously expensive First Communion dresses are now popular. A store near my parents' house, the kind that sells $300 Christmas dresses for 8-year-old girls, now stocks similar First Communion dresses. I made my daughter's dress, but the girls in her First Communion class generally had the $30-$60 department store variety. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 13:07:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DI78E2020685 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:07:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DI7Dvb004797; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:07:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DI6YSu055532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:06:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DI6Rrs039043; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:06:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DI6Hwp038857 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:06:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.154] (pm5-154.eos.net [205.133.149.154]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k2DI6FhI008816 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:06:15 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:54:13 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603131604.k2DG3sU8015589@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: origin of the facial types thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:07:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415B4D1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The way I remember it, someone posted a web site of attendee photos at an American SCA event. A member who was a portrait photographer set up shop and took pictures of anyone who wanted them, as people do at dances and other functions. The original poster, I think, wanted information about a particular costume. But people were looking at many of the photos, and someone asked why it was that he/she could tell that this was a group of Americans without being told ahead of time. Various guesses were posted -- I remember someone saying that it was because so many had white, straight teeth -- but the concensus was the large variety of facial types. Gail Finke, who remembers this for some reason _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 13:32:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DIW63Q021501 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:32:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DIWB0H014475; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:32:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DIVbS6059448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:31:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DIVUt2062254; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:31:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DIVEAa061958 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:31:08 -0800 Message-ID: <4415BA7B.8050701@msn.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:31:23 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 18:31:08.0270 (UTC) FILETIME=[4BA030E0:01C646CC] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] EQ-[Fwd: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group]-OT this list for other than Historic Horse Costuming discussions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:32:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415BAAB.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi all, for those of you who expressed an interest in an "Other Than Costuming" discussion place for historical equine discussions, here is an option. I figured I would try it out. I still intend to post my costume discussions to the h-costume list, but when the topic starts to diverge to more horsey things...we can go here. Sg -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:26 -0800 (PST) From: Diana Wilson To: wickedfrau@msn.com Hello! I would be very open for folks joining in. Right now my list is very quiet and I would enjoy having more people here! The only thing that I would like to stay away from is people selling their horses through the public posting. Information about horse-related costumes of a historic nature would be fantasitc! I have a few people on the list who belong to other historic interest lists who, I'm am sure, wouldn't mind more folks coming in as well! Please feel free to have people sign up and I will approve as soon as I can! -GM- */WickedFrau /* wrote: Hi, I and several others who belong to the Historic Costume List, were considering starting a historic equine list on Yahoo. But I see that you have one with similar interests and was wondering if we might just tag along. In general we would try to keep our horse and people costuming discussions on the latter list because other members have expressed interest in keeping them there even if they aren't focusing on that. But we horsey people, would also like to discuss more general historic horse aspects elsewhere and have a place to exchange pictures of our horses. If this is amenable to you, please let me know. Otherwise we will be happy to start another list....I was thinking "The Historic Equestrian". Thanks, Saragrace Knauf _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 13:38:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DIcvDY021696 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:38:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DId24g017061; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:39:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DIc0Ap060622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DIbqsq068586; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:37:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DIbi1Z068326 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:37:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 78923 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 18:37:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=XlnCjLk9siMWyDzCwv0JzlIbr9Vv4zqMVMtogWgrNTFPbNGUUWQFl1lxvuLLrTQdv+mKMEQ0cBebtzjVvFJeMZwCCGLHKR9Kq5e3SwqkKPkby/W7/RMwZssMmrO8zJApw5A6xE0KmZi1DAvNAtAJhcLo2z9OhFJmoWhCphU6Vmk= ; Message-ID: <20060313183739.78921.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:37:39 GMT Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:37:39 +0000 (GMT) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn - linen or cotton? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:39:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415BC46.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO This is probably a silly question :-) Could someone tell me if the Bishop's Lawn on sale from Hamon's in Jersey is terribly fine cotton or actual linen? I'm desperate to get some yummy thin linen for shifts etc., but don't want to spring for the shipping from the US (basically I've got to add on more than the cost of the fabric for postage plus another 25% for duty, VAT, etc). Oy. Thank you very much - I already have their phone number sitting next to my phone, thanks to the archive search feature :-) Katherine (who shouldn't actually be buying ANYTHING) "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 13:50:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DIot5b022184 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:50:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DIp0vf022141; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:51:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DInqJ2062664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:49:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DInjof080811; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:49:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DInbRp080582 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:49:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 36249 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 18:49:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 18:49:31 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313184548.01de28e8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:49:34 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn - linen or cotton? In-Reply-To: <20060313183739.78921.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20060313183739.78921.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2DInbRp080582 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:51:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415BF14.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 18:37 13/03/2006, you wrote: >This is probably a silly question :-) > >Could someone tell me if the Bishop's Lawn on sale >from Hamon's in Jersey is terribly fine cotton or >actual linen? > >I'm desperate to get some yummy thin linen for shifts >etc., but don't want to spring for the shipping from >the US (basically I've got to add on more than the >cost of the fabric for postage plus another 25% for >duty, VAT, etc). Oy. > >Thank you very much - I already have their phone >number sitting next to my phone, thanks to the archive >search feature :-) > >Katherine (who shouldn't actually be buying ANYTHING) As far as I remember it is fine cotton lawn. I have not come across anywhere in England which has very very fine lawn, although the fine lawn at the Cloth House is very fine, but not as closely woven as I would wish. It is £11.50 per metre 150 cm wide. The Cloth House - 47 and 98 Berwick Street, London W1F 0QJ Tel/fax 020 7287 1555 Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 14:45:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJjaN1024711 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:45:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJje54015699; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:45:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJj6v5072092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:45:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJj5WV037006; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:45:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJivMQ036810 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:45:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25943 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:16:32 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:16:29 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: origin of the facial types thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:45:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415CBE4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > The way I remember it, someone posted a web site of attendee photos at > an American SCA event. A member who was a portrait photographer set up > shop and took pictures of anyone who wanted them, as people do at > dances and other functions. The original poster, I think, wanted > information about a particular costume. But people were looking at > many of the photos, and someone asked why it was that he/she could > tell that this was a group of Americans without being told ahead of > time. Various guesses were posted -- I remember someone saying that it > was because so many had white, straight teeth -- but the concensus was > the large variety of facial types. Yes, that is how I remember it too. And then the discussion turned to weight and got very snippy, ah well. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 14:45:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJjnhE024719 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:45:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJjtKo027946; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:45:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJcsMZ071067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:44:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJ7EQi099046; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:07:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJ6PgK098055 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A2A502C0; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:06:13 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 13 Mar 2006 14:06:10 -0500 Message-ID: <006f01c646d1$843039a0$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com><003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> <44146F52.8000109@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:08:28 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:45:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415CBF3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ah, but one misses out on the practical activity of treading all the dusty or muddy trails! A great way to walk off a few pounds. Also, the venture of the hand and eye in discovering potential bargains has its own pleasure. In our region, most of the reproductive linen has catered more to the multitudes of Battenberg enthusiast than good old birdseye and other interesting weaves. Huck cloths aplenty, too. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels > There are hundreds and hundreds of fancy (and not so fancy) vintage and > antique tablecloths, towels, tea towels, bedspreads, handkerchiefs, and > linens of all sorts on eBay. Embroidered, printed, crocheted, tatted, > fringed, woven, plaid, striped, plain, and everything you can think of. > You can buy them individually or as part of a big lot, and in > conditions ranging from perfect to awful. > > I was buying embroidered tablecloths to make into skirts for awhile, at > great prices, but after buying eight or so within a few days I gave up > browsing the textiles. There were just too many. But if you look under > Collectibles/Linens, Fabric and Textiles or Antiques, Textiles and > Linens (the latter are generally pricier items), you'll never have to > spend hours at a flea market again--just in front of your computer. > > I had the sense to do a search on "tea towels," after I posted. Irish > Linen tea towels appear to have been popular since the early 1970s, > judging by the fact that some are dated (because they're printed with > calendars for the year). There are scads on eBay, though most are > printed with very tacky designs. I didn't find any William Morris ones > (even though I've just worn out four in my kitchen, bought from museum > catalogs at different times). If anyone is interested, many of the > towels are listed on eBay for about $5, and they are very effective as > hand and dish towels. > > I got three printed with Book of Kells designs which are a bit bright > for my taste, but that will fade as they get beat up and washed every > week (the reason why I passed up all the vintage embroidered ones > listed--we use the towels heavily). Also one printed with a picture of > the Louvre (tea towels seem to be popular tourist items). > > Then someone on h-costume, whose message I accidentally deleted, kindly > sent me a link to the online store of the Country Dance and Song > Society, where you can buy the Book of Kells towels: > > http://www.cdss.org/sales/holiday.html > > But if anyone knows anywhere in the US to get more William Morris tea > towels (I did find some places in England), please let me know. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Fran, the only time I have seen any that might be as you describe is at > > antique flea markets...such as Brimfield in Ma. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 14:46:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJkXoG024753 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:46:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJkcOM028064; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:46:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJkHbG072264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:46:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJkHKP038186; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:46:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJkEJ8038128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:46:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-222.sonic.net [209.148.114.222]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2DJkBEY026703 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:46:13 -0800 Message-ID: <4415CC06.7040009@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:46:14 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com><003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> <44146F52.8000109@lavoltapress.com> <006f01c646d1$843039a0$955083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <006f01c646d1$843039a0$955083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:46:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415CC1E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO We have vintage clothing and textile shows here too (there's one this coming weekend), and I used to love going to them. But now I love eBay more, to the extent that, when I'm pressed for time, I don't even always go to the local shows. On eBay there's just so much more merchandise available, and new stuff every day (from all over the world), and it's so much easier and quicker to browse it. I've been collecting clothing and textiles,and related publications, since I was 16. The net has just opened up the market incredibly; even though I often used to buy from other geographic areas by mail. I'm not really much of a window shopper; I look for things to buy rather than just spending hours looking around. And I don't need to lose weight, so that's not a factor. I agree though, that walking is practical exercise, in that you can get somewhere as you do it. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Ah, but one misses out on the practical activity of treading all the dusty > or muddy trails! A great way to walk off a few pounds. Also, the venture of > the hand and eye in discovering potential bargains has its own pleasure. > In our region, most of the reproductive linen has catered more to the > multitudes of Battenberg enthusiast than good old birdseye and other > interesting weaves. Huck cloths aplenty, too. > Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 14:53:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJrQiP025074 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:53:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJrVk2019481; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:53:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJr4D9073401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:53:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJr2kG045195; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:53:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.176.241]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DJqxYO045040 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:53:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 66670 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2006 19:52:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=nKCyxiS4zIOUCPVX1NrSzSGryNRdkec6duRjw5UvkXOLwq5wcEVeoFqItJ+osQLjYFHjTqZz9S1KoRlv0boq07EQGlgNiRa1r+RmNGqYE9UJow+tGw4AVnLjelmeCBQBz8AicQINA2hiphUwrfbMT90dbxNkFSjVkUjm6X/ySkA= ; Message-ID: <20060313195252.66668.qmail@web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:52:52 GMT Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:52:52 +0000 (GMT) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603131925.k2DJO6mJ016602@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Bishop's Lawn X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:53:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415CDBB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >As far as I remember it is fine cotton lawn. >I have not come across anywhere in England which h>as very very fine lawn, although the fine lawn >at the Cloth House is very fine, but not as >closely woven as I would wish. It is £11.50 per >metre 150 cm wide. The Cloth House - 47 and 98 Berwick Street, London W1F 0QJ Tel/fax 020 7287 1555 >Suzi Thanks Suzi - I'll call them in the morning and see what they've got. Katherine in very very very cold Edinburgh - brrrrrrr "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 14:56:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJuqoF025205 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:56:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJuvNF021034; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:57:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJuOmB073872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:56:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJuMZT048383; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:56:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJuH5Z048281 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:56:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247b5.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.181]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9CD2F47FE5F for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:56:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002e01c646d8$3e291d80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060313183739.78921.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn -very fine linnen Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:56:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:57:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415CE8A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO If you want to spend money, you could go to Theo Brejaart in Rotterdam. He is in the bobbin lace making buisiness, and sells the most superior quality, but also very expensive. I baught here for my 18th century shirts and stock cravats. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "katherine sanders" To: Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn - linen or cotton? > This is probably a silly question :-) > > Could someone tell me if the Bishop's Lawn on sale > from Hamon's in Jersey is terribly fine cotton or > actual linen? > > I'm desperate to get some yummy thin linen for shifts > etc., but don't want to spring for the shipping from > the US (basically I've got to add on more than the > cost of the fabric for postage plus another 25% for > duty, VAT, etc). Oy. > > Thank you very much - I already have their phone > number sitting next to my phone, thanks to the archive > search feature :-) > > Katherine (who shouldn't actually be buying ANYTHING) > > "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will > annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Photos - NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a > photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 14:56:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJusVI025209 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:56:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DJv0GE002598; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:57:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJuVJW073897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:56:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJuT8B048503; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:56:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DJuOM0048405 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:56:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31178) id <01M01FDY8XTC9VGTAE@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:56:20 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31178) with ESMTP id <01M01FBN5LK89W0L0V@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:54:28 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:54:34 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4415CDFA.40405@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:57:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415CE8C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO monica spence wrote: >Anyway I have never seen anything about a drawstring that is Medieval or >Renaissance. As a matter of fact something I read said it was the result of >the >"I need 100 chemises fast" mindset of the original Ren Faires. The chemises >I have seen--- and this is only in paintings, mind you-- show no indication >of a drawstring in the neck-- either a high neckline or low neckline. > >Can anyone help me on this? My professor friend has said she found a >reference in "several books" but is more than willing to look at what I find >, and change her lecture, as necessary. We both hate the idea of >disseminating incorrect information to students. > > I've certainly never seen evidence for drawstring necklines, and I've had a pretty good look around. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 15:07:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DK7UME025900 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:07:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DK7Ztq026161; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:07:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DK74ph075324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:07:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DK71Tv059175; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:07:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DK6sNN058942 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:06:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 39143 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 20:06:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 20:06:48 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313200526.01e05bc8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:06:51 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Theatre museum in London closing? In-Reply-To: <441593E4.6090907@verizon.net> References: <441593E4.6090907@verizon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:07:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415D107.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 15:46 13/03/2006, you wrote: >The following was sent me a few minutes ago from a friend... Sending >e-mail certainly wouldn't hurt! (sent to h-needlework as well, >because there is a tie-in with the decoration of costume) >-Liz > >Dear Friends and Colleagues, > > >> > >Some of you may have already heard disturbing rumours >about the imminent closure of London's Theatre Museum. >This shocking and completely unexpected >news has taken the museum staff completely by >surprise, and the future now looks grim for the >world's greatest collection of British theatrical >memorabilia. The V&A, which runs the Theatre Museum, >argues that no one cares what happens to it. I would >urge you and/or anyone else you know who feels >strongly about the future of the museum to prove them >wrong, and write and protest to the Director of the >V&A (who's decision this is) at the following address: > >Mark Jones >Director >Victoria & Albert Museum >email: mark.jones@vam.ac.uk If anyone wants further information, I now have an update, which is a bit long winded, but will happily forward individually if required. Anyone here in the U.K can contact their MP and I have help for that too. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 15:10:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DKAdeV026026 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:10:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DKAiPt027783; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:10:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DKAJ8b075804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:10:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DKAE5v062396; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from valiant.concentric.com (valiant.concentric.com [207.155.252.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DKA6NE062246 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:10:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: from PURCHASING ([207.67.223.71]) by valiant.concentric.com id PAA14296; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:10:04 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> From: "Julie" To: References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:09:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ruffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:10:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415D1C4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after > they're made like I do? And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on clothing. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 15:20:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DKK9Ii026396 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:20:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DKKE8T032330; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:20:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DKJeE4077153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:19:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DKJbcZ071708; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:19:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DKJTZV071532 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:19:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31178) id <01M01G58K6NK9W0PVA@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:17:33 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31178) with ESMTP id <01M01G58B9HK9W0TPT@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:17:33 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:17:35 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4415D35F.3050902@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:20:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415D3FE.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm mainly of Irish and French-Canadian descent, with some Swedish, Welsh, and English thrown in. Apparently, I'm very Irish looking with extremely fair skin and green eyes. My costume obsession: early 16th-century Florence. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 15:35:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DKZEtT027017 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:35:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DKZJG7006489; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:35:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DKYhVO079814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:34:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DKYeVl085203; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:34:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DKYZc4085043 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:34:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 74517 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 20:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 20:34:29 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:34:32 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs In-Reply-To: <005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com> <005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:35:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415D787.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 20:09 13/03/2006, you wrote: >>Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after >>they're made like I do? > >And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with >the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making >baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly >doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft >items but never on clothing. >Julie Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well ventilated room though - it can have odd effects. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 15:46:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DKklIh027637 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:46:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DKkqoP011606; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:46:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DKk4Tq081853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:46:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DKk2Wx096492; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DKjsi0096271 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:45:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A9FC01F0; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:45:48 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 13 Mar 2006 15:45:42 -0500 Message-ID: <00b801c646df$6c337200$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <44135C62.9010007@lavoltapress.com><003501c645d7$6b1596e0$955083d1@rmitchellras> <44146F52.8000109@lavoltapress.com><006f01c646d1$843039a0$955083d1@rmitchellras> <4415CC06.7040009@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:48:00 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:46:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415DA3D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ah Me...My passion these last two months has been e-Bay and dolls! I have managed in a space of about 3 months to amass a fairly well balanced doll collection with which to play with in my dotage. The one thing I have realized is that I have a real thing for china dolls. Since I am after the right heads and bodies that will be graced by 19thC clothing, I have not been too particular with the "original (so called) clothing" or body condition. I have a nice store of vintage and antique sawdust, linen, and fabulous lace to play with. Some of the dolls have already suffered extreme makeovers,so I am not cowed by the antiquarian idea that all this history should be preserved. I am taking notes of all the carcasses along with pictures, and will save any threads that seem to be remarkable...and discard all the wrappings and patches that managed to keep the poor things together for their final destination. I've been doing the costume thing since 1976 and am rapidly getting free of the things I don't want to play with, and am basically diminishing the size of the costume project but retaining the construction and detail including jewelry and findings. Your books have been tremendously helpful to me in the past and I have discovered occasionally that I can almost take your pattern shapes as they exist on the page exactly as they are. Thank You for all your hard work. In my e-Bay travels last week I did net a wonderful pair of purple silk mules that had crewel embroidery on them for my late 18th C kit. Even the heel was ok! Happy hunting, Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels > We have vintage clothing and textile shows here too (there's one this > coming weekend), and I used to love going to them. But now I love eBay > more, to the extent that, when I'm pressed for time, I don't even always > go to the local shows. On eBay there's just so much more merchandise > available, and new stuff every day (from all over the world), and it's > so much easier and quicker to browse it. I've been collecting clothing > and textiles,and related publications, since I was 16. The net has just > opened up the market incredibly; even though I often used to buy from > other geographic areas by mail. I'm not really much of a window > shopper; I look for things to buy rather than just spending hours > looking around. And I don't need to lose weight, so that's not a factor. > I agree though, that walking is practical exercise, in that you can > get somewhere as you do it. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Ah, but one misses out on the practical activity of treading all the dusty > > or muddy trails! A great way to walk off a few pounds. Also, the venture of > > the hand and eye in discovering potential bargains has its own pleasure. > > In our region, most of the reproductive linen has catered more to the > > multitudes of Battenberg enthusiast than good old birdseye and other > > interesting weaves. Huck cloths aplenty, too. > > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 16:19:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DLJ6hV029156 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:19:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DLJBAY026938; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:19:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DLIWsH086545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:18:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DLIIhs026068; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:18:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DLI7g4025862 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:18:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 4432 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 13:11:25 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 4423, pid: 4427, t: 0.7741s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 13:11:24 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313130945.023328c0@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:11:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com> <005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:19:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415E1CF.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 12:34 PM 3/13/2006, you wrote: >At 20:09 13/03/2006, you wrote: >>>Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after >>>they're made like I do? >> >>And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal >>with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for >>making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and >>supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with >>water for craft items but never on clothing. >>Julie > > > >Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep >it in shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well >ventilated room though - it can have odd effects. > >Suzi But what does it feel like against the skin? I'd expect it to be very irritating to have something stiff under my chin like that. Regular starch is resilient enough to not be too irritating. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 16:26:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DLQhAp029607 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:26:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DLQnhh030671; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:26:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DLQMXa088425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:26:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DLQK1m034064; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:26:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DLQFj8033984 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55ea.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.234]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1917DA50047 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:26:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000a01c646e4$ccd81980$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com> <005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:26:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:26:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415E399.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thee is a stuff wich is used to permanent water proof felt hats. I used that for a standing band once, and it worked well. The band had lace on it, chinese bobbin lace, wich i baught as doylies once. Sorry i cant remember the name of the stuff, but it also starched the band same time. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie" To: Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruffs >> Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after >> they're made like I do? > > And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the > ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets > out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash > out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on > clothing. > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 16:36:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DLatCd030119 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:36:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DLb0t1002974; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:37:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DLaGVO090441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:36:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DLaCoc043237; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DLa8YT043197 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55ea.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.234]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AA11A262843 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:36:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000f01c646e6$2fd3a620$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4415D35F.3050902@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:36:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:37:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415E5FC.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Yes and i would like to add, as it was me who sended the bad message at first about all americans being of europe origin. This was a stupid thing, it was not intended to be of any type of racism or anything, just a blubr from my part. I should have said that every american has origins from the old world, not europe. Sorry about this. What about russia, dont russia count in as european? I really dont know. Everytime i visits the gustavians in Sweden, i can always tell they are swedish, and that even that we are so close neighbors, Denmark and Sweden it is very typically the way they look like. Something about their eyes, and their shape of face. Off cause many swedes are very pale and has blue eyes and golden hair, but it is not only that. Here in Denmark we have many danes with very dark hair and also dark skin. They have their origin from Spain, as Denmark had a lot of spanish troops living in Jutland, during the wars in 1864. Funny how our past still have so much influence for us all. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adele de Maisieres" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors > I'm mainly of Irish and French-Canadian descent, with some Swedish, Welsh, > and English thrown in. Apparently, I'm very Irish looking with extremely > fair skin and green eyes. My costume obsession: early 16th-century > Florence. > > -- > Adele de Maisieres > > ----------------------------- > Habeo metrum - musicamque, > hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? > -Georgeus Gershwinus > ----------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 16:37:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DLbIeh030138 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:37:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DLbNJc003842; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:37:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DLbBL8090733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:37:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DLbBiq044269; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:37:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav9.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DLb8bM044100 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:37:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:37:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:36:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com><005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313130945.023328c0@surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:36:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 21:37:02.0475 (UTC) FILETIME=[440CCDB0:01C646E6] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:37:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415E613.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That and you lose out on the fun of washing and starching ruffs...something I actually enjoy doing...kinda little and boring an can be done on my own time. kelly >>Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in >>shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well ventilated room >>though - it can have odd effects. >> >>Suzi > > But what does it feel like against the skin? I'd expect it to be very > irritating to have something stiff under my chin like that. Regular > starch is resilient enough to not be too irritating. > > > Joan Jurancich > joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 17:04:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DM4NGW031415 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:04:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DM4QOC016320; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:04:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DM0hlk094580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DM0Ydl066696; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DM0PFq066518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:00:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k2DM0LXb000523 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:00:24 -0500 Received: from 66.217.132.82 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:00:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <50256.66.217.132.82.1142287224.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <4415CDFA.40405@paradise.net.nz> References: <4415CDFA.40405@paradise.net.nz> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:00:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:04:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415EC6A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Even in the 18th century, the typical drawstring neckline was not used. Sometimes there is a drawstring that serves to snug up the neckline a bit , but not to the extent of creating gathers. Sleeves tend to be gathered into cuffs and sometimes a ruffle added (sometimes of a finer fabric). Some shift sleeves are shorter, close fit and only have a narrow hem. But the same as anywhere, we see the head-swallowing-shift at reenactments. That's when it's pulled up to the collarbones. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 17:48:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DMm0oo000616 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:48:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DMm5wq003361; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:48:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DMlDcu001532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:47:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DMl6Ef018615; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DMkrhw018187 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:47:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.200.1292a398 (15699) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:46:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M35 (mblk-m35.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.79]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID51-3d534415f64b164; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:46:35 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:46:35 -0500 Message-Id: <8C815071DD29A77-D10-15CB6@MBLK-M35.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603131437.k2DEb67A033240@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by MBLK-M35.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.79) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:46:35 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603131437.k2DEb67A033240@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.79 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: ruffs and drawstring necklines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:48:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415F6A5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I am under the impression that ruffs developed from pleatworked collars on shirts, chemises and partlets. Here's a website that covers some interesting research on pleatwork: http://www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php I think you'll see that the necklines started out low and pleated (which we moderns have mistaken for a drawstring) and got higher and higher until a ruffle was formed by leaving a little bit of fabric free above the pleating, and from there it's easy to see how a detached ruff developed. And going back to a much earlier thread about historically-inspired modern clothes, I'm dying to make myself a blouse with a high, pleatworked collar. I have the fabric and everything all picked out. Now I just have to figure out how to stop time long enough to get it finished... Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 18:05:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DN5GiK001256 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:05:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DN5JOm010899; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:05:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DN10R3004183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:01:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DN0mRD036162; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:00:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DN0dZ4035763 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A452027C; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:38:10 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 13 Mar 2006 17:38:06 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01c646ef$1fa0d580$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4415D35F.3050902@paradise.net.nz> <000f01c646e6$2fd3a620$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:40:24 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415FAB0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne. My older daughter had a strange experience the first time she went to the USSR. As her group passed through Helsinki, she felt she was seeing many people who looked like her, and that the language she should have been studying was Finnish and not Russian. Her senior year in college she changed her language from Russian to Finnish and spent the rest of her senior in Turkou. The following summer she traveled up into the Arctic Circle to meet the Lapps. It was here that she Really felt at home. We have a picture of her in Lapp costume in a large family group where she looks to be like everyone else. Her great grandfather has the name of Fenlason...and always felt His family was from Scotland. I think the Scottish link to have been from Scandinavia. Erika is somewhat short and tends to be round. My family is southern Ireland and southern England. The genes will 'out".Kathleen---- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors > Hi, > Yes and i would like to add, as it was me who sended the bad message at > first about all americans being of europe origin. This was a stupid thing, > it was not intended to be of any type of racism or anything, just a blubr > from my part. > I should have said that every american has origins from the old world, not > europe. Sorry about this. > What about russia, dont russia count in as european? I really dont know. > Everytime i visits the gustavians in Sweden, i can always tell they are > swedish, and that even that we are so close neighbors, Denmark and Sweden it > is very typically the way they look like. Something about their eyes, and > their shape of face. Off cause many swedes are very pale and has blue eyes > and golden hair, but it is not only that. > Here in Denmark we have many danes with very dark hair and also dark skin. > They have their origin from Spain, as Denmark had a lot of spanish troops > living in Jutland, during the wars in 1864. > Funny how our past still have so much influence for us all. > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adele de Maisieres" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:17 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors > > > > I'm mainly of Irish and French-Canadian descent, with some Swedish, Welsh, > > and English thrown in. Apparently, I'm very Irish looking with extremely > > fair skin and green eyes. My costume obsession: early 16th-century > > Florence. > > > > -- > > Adele de Maisieres > > > > ----------------------------- > > Habeo metrum - musicamque, > > hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? > > -Georgeus Gershwinus > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 18:11:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNBkFY001538 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:11:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNBpm6013848; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:11:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DN8onD005481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:11:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DMaLON000307; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:36:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au (ihug-mail.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DMCSgq076244 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:12:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: from 203-173-3-3.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) ([203.173.3.3]) by mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 14 Mar 2006 06:12:18 +0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,188,1139155200"; d="scan'208"; a="699970132:sNHT38435172" Message-ID: <4415EDB8.90505@earthlydelights.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:10:00 +1100 From: A & J Garden Organization: Earthly Delights User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com> <005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Stiffening wool felt hats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:11:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415FC37.009 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Does anyone have a recipe I could use to stiffen some hats? I've got some old floppy wool felt hats I want to turn into cavalier hats. Thanks, Aylwen http://www.earthlydelights.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 18:12:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNCBSm001555 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:12:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNCGpr032452; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:12:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DNBuFA006144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:11:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNBsuM048695; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:11:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNBmtn048571 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:11:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 98BFB339B5 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:11:47 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:11:56 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:12:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4415FC50.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >From what I can see this appears to be wool or suede/leather. I don't see any pile that would indicate velvet. >From what I have learned from another's experience with leather. Old fashion tanning methods seem to leave the leather more supal(sp?) and drapey then the commercial leathers. De -----Original Message----- Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 18:31:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNVFMa002364 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:31:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNVKdu021675; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:31:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DNUTJl010944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:30:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNUDiC067086; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:30:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNU8s4066939 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2eb.2d3d0bf (4418) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:30:00 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2eb.2d3d0bf.31475a76@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:29:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:31:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441600C8.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/13/2006 3:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, What we sometimes call "Hat Lacquer". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 18:31:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNVYju002376 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:31:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNVdtQ011048; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:31:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DNV6JK011149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:31:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNV1cv067785; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav2.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNUuAV067578 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 15:30:49 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:30:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com><005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313130945.023328c0@surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:30:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2006 23:30:49.0208 (UTC) FILETIME=[29199780:01C646F6] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:31:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441600DB.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That goo is called decopage glue. I've used it on doilies before and it does make it very stiff. When it's dry, it's permenant. Glue will wilt when wet. Decogage won't. I'm not too sure how much water it would take but it definitely a stiff that will last much longer. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Jurancich" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs > At 12:34 PM 3/13/2006, you wrote: >>At 20:09 13/03/2006, you wrote: >>>>Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after >>>>they're made like I do? >>> >>>And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the >>>ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets >>>out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash >>>out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on >>>clothing. >>>Julie >> >> >> >>Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in >>shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well ventilated room >>though - it can have odd effects. >> >>Suzi > > But what does it feel like against the skin? I'd expect it to be very > irritating to have something stiff under my chin like that. Regular > starch is resilient enough to not be too irritating. > > > Joan Jurancich > joanmj@surewest.net > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 18:41:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNfaU1002745 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:41:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2DNfgiZ025799; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:41:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DNfA3s013111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNf59F076319; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:41:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNewT4076130 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:41:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2fa.85d39d (4418) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:40:51 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2fa.85d39d.31475d03@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:40:51 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:41:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44160336.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I've been meaning to try...in addition to some stiffening agent like starch or hat lacquer...zig-zaging some fishing line to the edge of the ruff. If you're attaching some lace to the edge with a narrow zig-zag, why not do it over some medium strength fishing line? If you get the right gauge, it could greatly help in achieving smooth, "bouncy" 8's. But I haven't tried it. It's as invisible as that nylon thread they sometimes do blind hems with, but it needs to have more body than the thread. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 19:13:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E0D2aI003909 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:13:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E0D796004697; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:13:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E0CVi0017554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:12:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E0CKrI003652; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:12:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E0CHQF003512 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:12:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.29d.70a0807 (15875) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:12:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-3e0344160a59ea; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:12:09 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] EQ-[Fwd: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group]-OT this list for other than Historic Horse Costuming discussions Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:12:07 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:13:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44160A93.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2E0D2aI003909 Status: RO How do I use this new group? Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 13, 2006, at 1:31 PM, WickedFrau wrote: > Hi all, for those of you who expressed an interest in an "Other Than > Costuming" discussion place for historical equine discussions, here is > an option. I figured I would try it out. I still intend to post my > costume discussions to the h-costume list, but when the topic starts > to diverge to more horsey things...we can go here. > > Sg > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group > Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:26 -0800 (PST) > From: Diana Wilson > To: wickedfrau@msn.com > > > > Hello! > I would be very open for folks joining in. Right now my list is very > quiet and I would enjoy having more people here! The only thing that > I would like to stay away from is people selling their horses through > the public posting. Information about horse-related costumes of a > historic nature would be fantasitc! I have a few people on the list > who belong to other historic interest lists who, I'm am sure, wouldn't > mind more folks coming in as well! > Please feel free to have people sign up and I will approve as soon as > I can! > -GM- > > */WickedFrau /* wrote: > > Hi, I and several others who belong to the Historic Costume List, > were > considering starting a historic equine list on Yahoo. But I see that > you have one with similar interests and was wondering if we might > just > tag along. In general we would try to keep our horse and people > costuming discussions on the latter list because other members have > expressed interest in keeping them there even if they aren't > focusing on > that. But we horsey people, would also like to discuss more general > historic horse aspects elsewhere and have a place to exchange > pictures > of our horses. If this is amenable to you, please let me know. > Otherwise we will be happy to start another list....I was thinking > "The > Historic Equestrian". Thanks, > > Saragrace Knauf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 19:17:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E0HfJ5004136 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:17:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E0Hlnt006380; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:17:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E0HFFN018275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:17:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E0HB1r009065; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:17:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E0H2KA008754 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:17:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.192]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060314001632.MIAB6234.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:16:32 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([222.154.132.86]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060314001631.WOYQ1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:16:31 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.375 [268.2.2/280]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:16:40 +1300 Message-ID: <00a301c646fc$91448e90$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <232.876aa4a.3145cb02@aol.com> <441572FB.1010608@ece.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:16:40 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:17:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44160BAB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham "Portrait > of a Man", German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but > looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and > collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am > curious as to what fabrics would be likely. > Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a > larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. > http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html It is entirely possible there are leather/suede elements as there was more used than is generally understood. I know I recently spotted a discussion on a list that gave further evidence for leather as outerwear beyond what we have as extant. And for German men's garb it's more likely still. However a good wool will also work. I wouldn't use velvet, his clothes are that of the middle classes (not working) so of good quality but sober. He has been variously called the Mathematician and the umpire. This should be familiar even if it's not easy to place. It was the inspiration behind the Princes' riding outfit in Ever After. I had always suspected it was so, but when I spotted the costumers of the film had it on their site, it became proof positive;) http://www.cosprop.com/showcase.html#26costumes The thumbnails are there, but to see the larger sketch click "explore the entire web photo collection" and choose sketches. It's in the first set of images shown. If you don't have flash enabled I don't think you can see it. There is also another portrait which is very similar where the man in question is actually wearing a cloak. The neckline shape is very similar the pose not too far off. But I can't find it. It may be in my files, but not where I can get to it easily. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.2/280 - Release Date: 13/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 19:26:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E0QKqT004652 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:26:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E0QQK3009484; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:26:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E0Q9m1019764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:26:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E0Q3CN020073; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:26:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E0PxD7019982 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:26:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.6.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.6] helo=faucet.net) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FIxMK-0004LS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:25:57 -0500 Message-ID: <44161B5A.4010706@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:24:42 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs References: <2fa.85d39d.31475d03@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:26:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44160DB2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > I've been meaning to try...in addition to some stiffening agent like starch > or hat lacquer...zig-zaging some fishing line to the edge of the ruff. If > you're attaching some lace to the edge with a narrow zig-zag, why not do it over > some medium strength fishing line? If you get the right gauge, it could > greatly help in achieving smooth, "bouncy" 8's. But I haven't tried it. It's as > invisible as that nylon thread they sometimes do blind hems with, but it needs > to have more body than the thread. I've seen this done, and by itself, it doesn't work very well. You get a fairly good shape on the edge, but the body of the ruff just collapses--kind of like doing a farthingale with only a single hoop at the bottom. As you suggest, I think you'd have to combine it with another stiffening method to get a good result. You'd also have to tack the figure-eights together where they touch unless you're using something really sturdy to stiffen (and even then, you'd have to pin or clip them together while drying). I don't think starch could withstand the sproing factor of fishing line unless it was really lightweight and you mixed the starch really strong. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 20:00:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E10i3N006410 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:00:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E10ntv022541; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:00:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E0xI6Y024413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:59:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E0xFFn053185; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:59:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E0xBqQ053020 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:59:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.67]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060314005905.FKOW27467.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:59:05 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060313183617.02812330@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:59:01 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:00:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441615C1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My family's been here forever it seems. Most recent is over 200 years. Real American mongrels, but they've always been in the south states (Virginia, N. Carolina to Texas and south) and on the current frontier. We've always joked that if they lived in the southern United States 200 years ago, they're family. Every hair and eye color. Once on a trip in the UK, we stayed in a small hotel in rural central Wales. I met a girl who looked so much like my youngest aunt (at that age) that it was eerie. Same unusual shade of red hair, body type, etc. For me, many years ago my professor of Korean history swore that I looked like some of the people who lived in N. Korea up near the northern border... a bit of the American Indian coming out.. I'm very pale and I don't sunburn or tan easily, though my brother would get so dark that people tried to speak Spanish to him. Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 21:04:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E24uZ6009969 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:04:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E251Ii014454; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:05:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E24CPR041409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:04:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E23k8P002307; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:03:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DNVp0k068481 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:31:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.24d.8816526 (4418) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:31:40 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <24d.8816526.31475adc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:31:40 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stiffening wool felt hats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:05:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441624CD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:18:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, garden@earthlydelights.com.au writes: Does anyone have a recipe I could use to stiffen some hats? Again.....hat lacquer. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 21:05:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E25n2W010059 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:05:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E25tlL026109; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:05:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E25Zw1041659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:05:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E25Y5w003994; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:05:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DNerjc076009 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:40:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 43757 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 23:40:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 23:40:40 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313233049.01deba68@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:35:03 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313130945.023328c0@surewest.net> References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com> <005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> <6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313130945.023328c0@surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:05:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44162503.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >>>>Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after >>>>they're made like I do? >>> >>>And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal >>>with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for >>>making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and >>>supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with >>>water for craft items but never on clothing. >>>Julie >> >> >> >>Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep >>it in shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well >>ventilated room though - it can have odd effects. >> >>Suzi > >But what does it feel like against the skin? I'd expect it to be >very irritating to have something stiff under my chin like >that. Regular starch is resilient enough to not be too irritating. I have never had any complaints, and that is how I do all my ruffs. I wear them myself and I have skin like the Princess and the Pea, super sensitive. I know Jean used that method for ruffs for TV, and actors are notoriously fussy. She would not have put it in her book if lots of people complained - she'd have found another method. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 21:06:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E266FG010084 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:06:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E26Cs1009437; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:06:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E25gOf041685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:05:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E25gGj004103; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:05:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2DNtX6b088774 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:55:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 47843 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2006 23:55:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.16.116 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2006 23:55:28 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313235317.01de8980@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:55:32 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs In-Reply-To: <2fa.85d39d.31475d03@aol.com> References: <2fa.85d39d.31475d03@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:06:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44162514.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 23:40 13/03/2006, you wrote: >I've been meaning to try...in addition to some stiffening agent like starch >or hat lacquer...zig-zaging some fishing line to the edge of the ruff. If >you're attaching some lace to the edge with a narrow zig-zag, why >not do it over >some medium strength fishing line? If you get the right gauge, it could >greatly help in achieving smooth, "bouncy" 8's. But I haven't tried >it. It's as >invisible as that nylon thread they sometimes do blind hems with, >but it needs >to have more body than the thread. I use "gimp", available in haberdashery/notions stores, for tailoring buttonholes. Works very well. I believe fishing line works very well for those huge, Dutch style ruffs. You might need to use several rows for a really deep ruff though. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 21:06:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E26C6X010090 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:06:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E26H9j013567; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:06:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E267WF041803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:06:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E2667C004508; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:06:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E1crVf085876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:38:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E3NEWT023298 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:23:14 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: origin of the facial types thread Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:43:32 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603132043.32698.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:06:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44162519.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Monday 13 March 2006 12:54 pm, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > The way I remember it, someone posted a web site of attendee photos at an > American SCA event. A member who was a portrait photographer set up shop > and took pictures of anyone who wanted them, as people do at dances and > other functions. The original poster, I think, wanted information about a > particular costume. But people were looking at many of the photos, and > someone asked why it was that he/she could tell that this was a group of > Americans without being told ahead of time. Various guesses were posted -- > I remember someone saying that it was because so many had white, straight > teeth -- but the concensus was the large variety of facial types. My husband claims to have an answer to this one, and this isn't it. Facial expression. In particular, the postions of American English speakers' mouths. Apparently our habital non-speaking mouth positions are more open and less pursed than those of Europeans. That's his theory, anyway. I forget the details of his rationale, but it has to do with the difference in vowel types (and the way they are pronounced) in American English versus most of the other European languages. I don't remember for certain whether the British look more like Europeans than Americans under this theory, but I'd bet the answer is yes because although they speak English, they pronounce their vowels much "closer" than most Americans do. Otherwise, I think a lot of Americans look at least outwardly European. My husband (who spent most of his childhood in various parts of Europe and once spoke both Italian and Spanish fluently) is invariably mistaken for a native in parts of Germany, Switzerland, and even Scandanavia. -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 21:35:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E2ZKM8011870 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:35:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E2ZQTV025068; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:35:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E2Z1FW046074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:35:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E2YxRq046112; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E2YuZQ046073 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:34:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m233.in-tch.com [216.166.191.233]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2E2Q4A02990 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:26:04 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <004201c64710$e512c820$e9bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: origin of the facial types thread Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:42:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:35:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44162BEE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That's what I remember, as well, and it was at least 2, maybe 3 years ago, in winter. A Twelfth Night event for one of the west coast kingdoms, IIRC.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:54 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: origin of the facial types thread > > The way I remember it, someone posted a web site of attendee photos at an > American SCA event. A member who was a portrait photographer set up shop and > took pictures of anyone who wanted them, as people do at dances and other > functions. The original poster, I think, wanted information about a > particular costume. But people were looking at many of the photos, and > someone asked why it was that he/she could tell that this was a group of > Americans without being told ahead of time. Various guesses were posted -- I > remember someone saying that it was because so many had white, straight > teeth -- but the concensus was the large variety of facial types. > > Gail Finke, who remembers this for some reason _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 22:26:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E3QlWY014819 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:26:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E3Qqvd010766; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:26:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E3QF8l053016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E3Q2Ab028778; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:26:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav21.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E3PwFK028613 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:26:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:25:52 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.53.115 by BAY106-DAV21.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:25:50 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.53.115] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:25:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:25:55 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 03:25:52.0707 (UTC) FILETIME=[FF70C130:01C64716] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:26:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441637FC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2E3QlWY014819 Status: RO I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is the catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics that normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I have seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but when they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all out with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was well worth it. I got it from http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~home~&cart=0 , a shop with an incredible selection of European art books, most expensive. It did take a long time to get here (this was my Valentine present). Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 22:38:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E3ceSt015415 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:38:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E3cj8g015016; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:38:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E3cKsK054678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:38:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E3cHiI038401; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:38:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E3bjAv038132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:38:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-113-208.sonic.net [209.148.113.208]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2E3bgqT009526 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:37:44 -0800 Message-ID: <44163A89.6020506@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:37:45 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:38:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44163AC5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Is it of much use for secular clothing? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is the catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics that normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I have seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but when they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all out with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. > > Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was well worth it. I got it from http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~home~&cart=0 , a shop with an incredible selection of European art books, most expensive. It did take a long time to get here (this was my Valentine present). > > Janet > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 13 23:51:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E4pu2J019777 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:51:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E4q1Qn007681; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:52:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E4p90V062841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:51:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E4p1Hb091975; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:51:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E4ownv091867 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:51:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IW3003PVPGOJZ43@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:50:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:50:47 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: ruffs and drawstring necklines In-reply-to: <8C815071DD29A77-D10-15CB6@MBLK-M35.sysops.aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:52:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44164BF1.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thanks everyone for the help! Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of tearoses@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:47 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: ruffs and drawstring necklines I am under the impression that ruffs developed from pleatworked collars on shirts, chemises and partlets. Here's a website that covers some interesting research on pleatwork: http://www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php I think you'll see that the necklines started out low and pleated (which we moderns have mistaken for a drawstring) and got higher and higher until a ruffle was formed by leaving a little bit of fabric free above the pleating, and from there it's easy to see how a detached ruff developed. And going back to a much earlier thread about historically-inspired modern clothes, I'm dying to make myself a blouse with a high, pleatworked collar. I have the fabric and everything all picked out. Now I just have to figure out how to stop time long enough to get it finished... Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 00:14:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5EaW7020768 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:14:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5EflE015633; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:14:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E5EJgP066080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:14:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5EGXa009506; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:14:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5ECl8009431 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:14:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=kyVpBemzpP+PFQWyQbrmUbBKNzJnkKSEFPfKF/Tsv6BIMvxTy9wd7CaiCL26XYTA; h=Received:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:X-Priority:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.3.234.235] (helo=[10.0.1.4]) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FJ1rH-0000iX-GJ for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:14:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4B4C4431-2344-4912-A1CC-387F44716786@earthlink.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:14:07 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478d165aa9320335d7119c54f4894130ffd636dce2d9cd9b30c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.234.235 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:14:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44165141.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mar 13, 2006, at 7:25 PM, JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is the > catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics that > normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I have > seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but when > they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all out > with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. > > Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was > well worth it. I got it from http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll? > AB~home~&cart=0 , a shop with an incredible selection of European > art books, most expensive. It did take a long time to get here > (this was my Valentine present). > > Janet > _______________________________________________ You are a very bad, bad person. [4 books and $200 later] A VERY bad bad person. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. :) Heather -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 00:26:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5Qq3p021412 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:26:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5QwpN020001; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:27:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E5QdOa068064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:26:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5QcG2019195; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:26:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5QYWC019146 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:26:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=l85jUzAi45DyQr5lwkwJ/VbA754RTGwi52/LtM+gQdkTkgrclci7roauFaz6abu0; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.3.234.235] (helo=[10.0.1.4]) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FJ23F-0002dN-TE for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:26:34 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <44163A89.6020506@lavoltapress.com> References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> <44163A89.6020506@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:26:30 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478d165aa9320335d71e10f332a1ce94ad2d7e757cff1e88021350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.234.235 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:27:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44165422.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mar 13, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: > JAMES OGILVIE wrote: >> I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is >> the catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics >> that normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I >> have seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but >> when they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all >> out with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. >> Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was >> well worth it. I got it from http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll? >> AB~home~&cart=0 , a shop with an incredible selection of European >> art books, most expensive. It did take a long time to get here >> (this was my Valentine present). >> Janet _______________________________________________ > Is it of much use for secular clothing? > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > The collection is pretty much entirely secular -- it's primarily burial clothing of various nobles whose tombs are at the monastery. It's an incredible resource and hasn't been studied in anywhere near the depth it deserves to be. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 00:30:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5USo0021580 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:30:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5UY2H021463; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:30:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E5UKli068791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:30:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5UJPU022324; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:30:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5UGD9022272 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:30:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YpWrXaZVTEXEtFgP2D5TV6lfiAccO/Z8uY15Fz6NzcTG3gVVEyJO3KinDDER2bjg; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.3.234.235] (helo=[10.0.1.4]) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FJ26q-00046L-BB for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:30:16 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:30:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478d165aa9320335d712ceadc493e40854b74d2f606dd8d60f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.234.235 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:30:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441654FA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mar 13, 2006, at 7:30 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: > *coming soon to a volume of Medieval Clothing & Textiles ... vol. 4 > I hope > (right, Heather?) *meekly* Yes, ma'am. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 00:41:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5fDpq022060 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:41:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5fINc025302; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:41:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E5ew18070376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:40:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5evIE030749; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2E5erol030642 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 17807 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2006 05:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2006 05:40:45 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060314053718.01d89500@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:40:41 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book In-Reply-To: References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:41:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4416577E.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 03:25 14/03/2006, you wrote: >I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is the >catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics that >normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I have >seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but when >they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all out >with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. > >Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was >well worth it. I got it from >http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~home~&cart=0 , a shop with an >incredible selection of European art books, most expensive. It did >take a long time to get here (this was my Valentine present). I saw this wonderful exhibition in Madrid last year. There were a number of clothes on display, in remarkable condition, considering they were "grave clothes". Unfortunately no photography was allowed, and I could not afford the catalogue(book). I think this is the same one on sale at the time. It is not a period I ever do, so I could not justify another expensive book!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 00:54:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5sFFV022717 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:54:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E5sKEm029738; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:54:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E5rVvV071451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:53:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5rMcx039021; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:53:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao03.cox.net (eastrmmtao03.cox.net [68.230.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E5rILN038874 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:53:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.220.19]) by eastrmmtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20060314055310.PUHC29285.eastrmmtao03.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:53:10 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Theatre museum in London closing? Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:53:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcZG2hqdFKwrpfcRTfm2HHMKHMSy6AAUVgwg In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060313200526.01e05bc8@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: <20060314055310.PUHC29285.eastrmmtao03.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:54:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44165A8C.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >If anyone wants further information, I now have an update, which is a >bit long winded, but will happily forward individually if required. I would like to see it. Thanks, Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 01:17:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E6HFV4023344 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:17:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E6HKir004474; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:17:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E6GXKs073597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E6GVMK054436; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:16:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav22.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.94]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E6GSEQ054336 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:16:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:16:27 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.53.115 by BAY106-DAV22.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:16:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.53.115] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net><6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> <4B4C4431-2344-4912-A1CC-387F44716786@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:16:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:16:27 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 06:16:27.0024 (UTC) FILETIME=[D3919900:01C6472E] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:17:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44165FF0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2E6HFV4023344 Status: RO There's a reason I'm called the Evil Book Lady, although usually it's for books I'm selling. Most of the clothes in the book are secular, although there are a few liturgical pieces. There are also textile fragments, pictures of the monastery and pages from illuminated manuscripts. Janet You are a very bad, bad person. [4 books and $200 later] A VERY bad bad person. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. :) Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 02:17:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E7Hj70028123 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:17:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E7HoIQ022910; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:17:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E7HPJZ079553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:17:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E7HJBI094139; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:17:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E7HFHp094042 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:17:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:17:10 -0800 Message-ID: <44166E06.5080304@msn.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:17:26 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] EQ-[Fwd: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group]-OT this list for other than Historic Horse Costuming discussions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 07:17:10.0675 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F5A9E30:01C64737] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:17:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44166E1E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historic_Horse/ Go to the above link. You should be able to see a "Join this Group" button. You will be taken to a page to fill out which will tell the moderator of the group why you are interested. You can reference this note.... If you are new to Yahoo groups, the help screens are actually pretty good: http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/ If you have further questions about it, feel free to contact me off - list. Sg Susan Data-Samtak wrote: > How do I use this new group? > > Susan > > On Mar 13, 2006, at 1:31 PM, WickedFrau wrote: > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 02:25:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E7PQrb029456 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:25:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E7PWdG025285; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:25:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E7PD4x080482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:25:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E7PDhT099857; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:25:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E7PA0i099791 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:25:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:25:04 -0800 Message-ID: <44166FE1.8080908@msn.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:25:21 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <440E5DC1.4070203@reddawn.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060308143631.036d95b0@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 07:25:04.0970 (UTC) FILETIME=[6A0E4AA0:01C64738] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Title: Fashion and Fiction: Dress in Art and Literature in Stuart England X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:25:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44166FEC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Saw this on my way to look at the Spanish Medieval book Janet recommended...thought some of you might be interested. Sg Item Number: 47054 *Title: Fashion and Fiction: Dress in Art and Literature in Stuart England* Author: RIBEIRO, AILEEN *Price: $65.00* ISBN: 0300109997 Description: New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 2006. 29cm., cloth, 387pp., 224 illus., ca. 80 in color. (Focusing on the rich visual culture of the seventeenth century, including portraits, engravings, fashion plates, and sculpture, and on literary sources—poetry, drama, essays, sermons—the distinguished historian of dress Aileen Ribeiro creates a fascinating account of Stuart dress and how it both reflected and influenced society. Supported by a wealth of illustrative images, she explores such varied themes as court costumes, the masque, the ways in which political and religious ideologies could be expressed in dress, and the importance of London as a fashion center. This beautiful book is an indispensable and authoritative account of what people wore and how it related to Stuart England’s cultural climate). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 03:37:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E8bl7E011432 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:37:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E8boiT015131; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:37:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E8bMhj087780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:37:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E8bJ3Q048798; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:37:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E8bG7I048772 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:37:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE58B5E033 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:37:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060314001406.0388c390@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:16:32 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <20060311063157.52303.qmail@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <009c01c64493$db5c2c10$154d4e40@Stuckis> <20060311063157.52303.qmail@web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:37:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441680DE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thank you all for your wonderful info on renaissance mariners, a better word when said out loud in public than seamen. I've been busy with my debunking outline collecting pertinent samples of images that I've become a bit behind in my email reading. But I do appreciate the various sources to look up, and images that were sent to me. Thank you all again. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 03:37:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E8blHY011431 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:37:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E8bqL8004076; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:37:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E8bMOk087779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:37:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E8bJdE048799; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:37:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E8bGKS048771 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 01:37:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 068E55E026 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:37:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060314001026.0388c620@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:12:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises In-Reply-To: References: <20060312213133.7m36ui2um1j4w8wc@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:37:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441680E0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 06:10 AM 3/13/2006, you wrote: >Anyway I have never seen anything about a drawstring that is Medieval or >Renaissance. As a matter of fact something I read said it was the result of >the >"I need 100 chemises fast" mindset of the original Ren Faires. The chemises >I have seen--- and this is only in paintings, mind you-- show no indication >of a drawstring in the neck-- either a high neckline or low neckline. The only source I know of is the Winter and Savoy book on Renaissance faire costuming. I hate that book, as there are a number of inaccuracies, but it was my first book when I first joined faire. I've since given my copy away. But thank you for reminding me about this Ren faire garb myth. I have added it to my collection of garb myths that I am working on debunking. I've been so busy looking up pics for my list that I haven't been able to catch up on my e-mail. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 04:46:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E9k464025686 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:46:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2E9k9F4001601; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:46:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E9jkL7093886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:45:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2E9jbtD087005; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.177.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2E9jYo8086934 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:45:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lenastrid@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 94306 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2006 09:45:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5ZBBtPnSctSoDKdcVKlANz1aJTT7gncaB7e9HVVhdSy7PDDUs////OYap93cdK4w7Hpy+jjaCp9hzIftaZbOJ9xtanRO4h1wK2VCjzT0GEJr0H2a/Ok0abN6voThtttPomoeqEp6ltHfCa3w8bhGoxsaA/QkiqYxU9n3EBn1OrI= ; Message-ID: <20060314094528.94304.qmail@web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.158.62.84] by web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:45:28 GMT Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:45:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Lena Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval clerical underwear To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:46:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441690E1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >From "The Rule of St Benedict", chapter 55. In latin: (for those who don't trust translations :-) Femoralia hi qui in via diriguntur de vestario accipiant, quae revertentes lota ibi restituant. Et cucullae et tunicae sint aliquanto a solio quas habent modice meliores; quas exeuntes in via accipiant de vestario et revertentes restituant. And in English: Brothers going on a journey should get underclothing from the wardrobe. On their return they are to wash it and give it back. Their cowls and tunics, too, ought to be somewhat better than those they ordinarily wear. Let them get these from the wardrobe before departing, and on returning put them back. On a related note, I'd like to bring attention to the book "Requiem. The Medieval monastic cemetery in Britain", by R. Gilchrist and B. Sloane (2005). In chapter 5, they discuss burial clothing and dress accessories. Apparently, in quite a few cemeteries dating to the 14th century, pairs of annular (round) buckles have been found at the upper femurs of males. They argue that these would have been used to attach the hose to the breech-belt. These bodies may have belonged to laymen rather than monks, though. /Lena --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > Below forwarded from another list. I could swear > we've talked about this > before -- it's in one of the monastic rules, I > think, perhaps the passage > that mentions "femoralia" that gets brought up every > so often? Anyone have > a source? > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > I think that medieval monastic legislation on dress > often specified that > underwear had to be worn by monks or friars when > going outside the > monastery: i.e. there was a pragmatic concern for > modesty when travelling > about, which would not apply, of course, at burial. > I've just looked in > Giancarlo Rocca, ed., La sostanza dell'effimero: gli > abiti degli ordini > religiosi in occidente (Rome: Edizioni Paoline, > 2000) for verification, > but without success. Someone else may have a source > to hand. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 08:07:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ED7kvY004058 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:07:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ED7l1X030729; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:07:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ED75GQ027641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ED6tRg016587; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:06:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ED6qbc016480 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:06:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:06:47 -0800 Message-ID: <4416BFF8.1080505@msn.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:04 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2006 13:06:47.0225 (UTC) FILETIME=[265A2290:01C64768] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Toga trim in Gladiator.. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:07:55 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I was rewatching Gladiators this weekend and wondered if there were some color system to the toga trims. In some scenes there seemed to be groups of black trim, red and I think blue....anyone aware of any historical information for this? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 08:08:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ED8Dux004082 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:08:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ED8J8M012397; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:08:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ED7pP3027970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ED7pu4017302; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ED7MLk016892 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A00401E8; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:07:16 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 14 Mar 2006 08:07:01 -0500 Message-ID: <002c01c64768$82be0560$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603131327.k2DDR2Rq070567@net.indra.com> <005d01c646da$1ba65be0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING><6.2.3.4.0.20060313203250.01de6970@127.0.0.1> <4415EDB8.90505@earthlydelights.com.au> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stiffening wool felt hats Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:09:18 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:08:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4416C043.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Taking a hint from my sister the dollmaker, get a can of cheap hairspray like Aquanet and spray the hat inside and out to a feel of saturation. As the hat dries, work the 'dents' out with your fingers and mold it to the shape you want. Spray lightly for the finish and let it dry thoroughly. I have been using this method on recondition my round hats and tricorns etc for some time and they look very nice. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "A & J Garden" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] Stiffening wool felt hats > Does anyone have a recipe I could use to stiffen some hats? I've got > some old floppy wool felt hats I want to turn into cavalier hats. > Thanks, Aylwen > > http://www.earthlydelights.com.au > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 09:41:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EEfudM006759 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:41:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EEg14D003151; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:42:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EEfE9C042336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:41:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EEfBLR096680; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EEf7bS096516 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:41:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.17]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060314144100.IPWW16513.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:41:00 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060314082551.0267adf0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:40:55 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book In-Reply-To: <200603140725.k2E7PEPT099868@net.indra.com> References: <200603140725.k2E7PEPT099868@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2EEf7bS096516 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:42:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4416D639.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I had ordered my copy from Thomas Heneage Art Books in London (40 GBP) as I didn't find it in the States. I'll have to keep a closer eye on that dealer. I also broke down and ordered (from another source): Nouveau Recueil des Comptes de l'Argenterie des Rois de France, publiés pour la Société de l'Histoire de France. . by DOUËT d'ARCQ, Louis, ed Paris: Librairie Renouard, 1874. [8] lxxj [1] 359 [1]p. Heather, which ones did you get? Beth - confirmed book addict At 01:25 AM 3/14/2006, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:14:07 -0800 >From: Heather Rose Jones >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book > >You are a very bad, bad person. [4 books and $200 later] A VERY bad >bad person. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. :) > >Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 09:53:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EErZTD007213 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:53:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EErfqr008410; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:53:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EErFFQ044136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:53:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EErDVA008012; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:53:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nasc-out-2.nasc.inter.net (nasc-out-2.nasc.inter.net [203.176.60.254]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EEr9oA007859 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:53:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gwen@moonsandstars.com) Received: from 1cust8170.an4.sac8.da.uu.net ([63.20.255.234] helo=Wndyc) by app2.nasc.inter.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1FJAtT-0004n4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:53:03 -0500 Message-ID: <005601c64776$fb16db50$eaff143f@Wndyc> From: "Gwen" To: References: <200603140017.k2E0HCKj009095@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:50:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 248 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:53:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4416D8F5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2EErZTD007213 Status: RO I've also used the starch in a can after I've washed my ruffs. A couple of coats of that and the ruff stands up beautifully. It's not quite so messy. The trick is to mist the starch on so they don't collapse under a spray of liquid. Using this method means I don't have to take the ruff apart either. Gwenhwyfar Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:29:58 EST From: AlbertCat@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs To: h-costume@indra.com Message-ID: <2eb.2d3d0bf.31475a76@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 3/13/2006 3:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, What we sometimes call "Hat Lacquer". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 10:06:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EF6C6o007627 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:06:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EF6HTd013964; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:06:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EF5WIh045720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:05:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EF5V7x018605; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:05:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EF5Rl8018455 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:05:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2EF5I207014.; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:05:18 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:05:18 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:04:58 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2EF5Rl8018455 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:06:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4416DBE9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Gather the sleeves into wristbands, closed with ribbon ties. The neck gathers can be stitched onto a band or facing (something like the ecclesiastical surplice, only they usually have a wider band at the top than you would want on a shift). According to Nicole Kipar, who used to be on this list, the ribbon ties should not be stitched on but should pass through two buttonholes (for 17th century garments). Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> roscelinlimoges@comcast.net 13/03/2006 16:31 >>> Is there anywhere I can see how this is done? This is the first time I've heard about this technique. I was always under the belief that drawstrings were used in the neckline and cuffs. Since I have to make myself some new chemises this is a good time to learn the new technique (new to me). Roscelin ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 15:11:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EKB2ud022976 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:11:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EKB7OW014514; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:11:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EKABFf097729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:10:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EK9oPL003835; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:09:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52113.mail.yahoo.com (web52113.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2EK9gTF003581 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 87680 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2006 20:09:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lPuq23PMGpD79aknFAkXoBXBGUOahORh9OIR5xdtRO2/p9jQuRUPMjZlH+sfPtOEt/qG+xQk5nscP3rb/5RAfeqGznbI6K1Pf10+ZhJ8RgF0JX3cCcdfXQtFETSMK4WDRimuD+T7F5jzjzQ1lZO7QkihyA3atHA0PLg9v1bq44c= ; Message-ID: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:09:29 EST Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:09:29 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Glove pic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:11:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4417235B.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I was talking about: http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg Look familiar to anyone? Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 16:03:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EL38no027646 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:03:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EL3ERX004420; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:03:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EKxxRx007900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:59:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EKxoSN052573; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:59:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EKxja6051803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:59:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FJGbi-0008JT-Sm; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:59:06 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:59:06 -0500 Message-ID: <20060314155906.r14iifduk1pcocc8@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:59:06 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:03:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44172F92.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Kathy Page : > Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I > was talking about: > > http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg > > Look familiar to anyone? No, but that is such a Cool Glove, I can see why you're trying to track it down! I can't wait to see what turns up. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 16:40:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ELePVc001226 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:40:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ELeUna021510; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:40:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ELdZ5B014822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:39:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ELdLTG090772; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2ELd74F090572 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:39:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 27001 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2006 13:38:42 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 26954, pid: 26975, t: 6.0631s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp4 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2006 13:38:36 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314133123.022fd8e8@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:38:50 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic In-Reply-To: <20060314155906.r14iifduk1pcocc8@www.goldsword.com> References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <20060314155906.r14iifduk1pcocc8@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp4.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:40:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4417384E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 12:59 PM 3/14/2006, you wrote: >Quoting Kathy Page : > >>Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I >>was talking about: >> >>http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg >> >>Look familiar to anyone? > >No, but that is such a Cool Glove, I can see why you're trying to track >it down! I can't wait to see what turns up. > >Susan I keep thinking I've seen this glove before, but I have seen similar ones in the portrait of Lady Mary Neville and her Son Gregory Fiennes, 10th Baron Dacre (1559) (formerly misidentified as Frances Brandon, Duchess of Suffolk, and her 2nd husband, Adrian Stokes), both of whom are holding pairs of gloves (the lady's are simply decorated with jeweled buttons and edge snips) and in the portrait of Elizabeth Cornwallis, Lady Kytson (1573), in which her gloves have a light-colored cuff decorated with what I think are ribbon bows (my picture is small and the details are hard to see clearly). Both these portraits are in "Dynasties: Painting in Tudor and Jacobean England 1530-1630", edited by Karen Hearn (ISBN 084781940X). Hope this helps a bit. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 16:45:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ELjwZP001938 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:45:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ELk4We024017; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:46:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ELjQr0015658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ELjMWR096328; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:45:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ELjHIH096227 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:45:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 67so33484wri for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:45:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=akyH/Q+MiJDoZ7An5FcYM7KOT/wKluULSoUh+LDSs3s6zzGpbtSCIxmp3w128nKDRGVYWsEnL4qLWkT6mgsGtwyBLLZzzteJtut9d8QGxcZLA3i3JBiq6Nv1lVSaDAr1/g+6UUQCs3FhX3RZm1Sgcee+myi1r3j4qycPs7xHi60= Received: by 10.54.132.6 with SMTP id f6mr94713wrd; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:45:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.16 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:45:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603141345jfb5b14p7fcb0ebacc0800f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:45:15 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314133123.022fd8e8@surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <20060314155906.r14iifduk1pcocc8@www.goldsword.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060314133123.022fd8e8@surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:46:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4417399C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2ELjwZP001938 Status: RO > >Quoting Kathy Page : > > > >>Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I > >>was talking about: > >> > >>http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg > >> > >>Look familiar to anyone? > > > > When I went hunting gloves with slashes over the fingers they seemed to be more German than English, so you might try that venue as well. alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 17:50:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EMoN0v009430 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:50:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EMoTKE017858; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:50:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EMnfM3026333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:49:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EMnSBm056576; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:49:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EMnEMa056281 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:49:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060314224908.ULCM14732.mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:49:08 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.178.63]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060314224907.ZHWM1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:49:07 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.385 [268.2.3/281]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:49:18 +1300 Message-ID: <005901c647b9$86c6dfa0$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:49:13 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:50:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441748B5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO <> > http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg My first instinct was Spanish as well, due to how the hand is displayed (the hand is vertical and holding either a glove or a handkerchief) and those bows (Germans weren't quite as fond of bows as the Spanish were... I found a lovely child's portrait on bildindex where she is wearing jewellery bows even! Mind you the English are also fond of them....) but I have a feeling in the redrawings some features may have changed. It's very easy to show the glove style in German dress, very easy indeed. I'm not sure I have any files large enough for Spanish dress to show slashes: Aha! Isabel de Valois, painted by Coello but clearly in French dress: http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_08a.jpg http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com/juana.htm A couple of portraits here show slashed gloves as well. True non have that strange cuff thing, but as it's a redrawing of a redrawing it may be a bit difficult to determine if it was well drawn in the first place. There are slashes at the wrists of several of them, and they are worn with wrist ruffs so I wonder if maybe the original sketch mixed the two together. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/saya/untitled5.jpg This is an example of a glove on a hand, it might be Ana de Austria. http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com/anadeaustria.htm Or at least a copy of one the portraits here. Her gloves though are not slashed. http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com/mariadeaustria.htm Ditto here it looks like. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.3/281 - Release Date: 14/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 18:05:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EN5rqa011006 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:05:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2EN5x02023317; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:06:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EN1LD8029380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:01:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EN1El1070269; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:01:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EN17Xd070094 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:01:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247a9.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.169]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B761262853 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:01:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:01:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:06:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44174C57.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That is very sheek! :-) What would you use for the small bows? I would recomend you to use silk ribbon of the kind used for ribbon work, its so soft and delicate and would make very nice bows. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: "Historical Costume List" Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Glove pic > Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I > was talking about: > > http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg > > Look familiar to anyone? > > Kathy > > Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a > rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert > > It's never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth > there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart > somewhere to receive it. > -Ivan Panin > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 18:43:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ENhgD1014479 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:43:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ENhkxD003919; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:43:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ENh6VN037785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:43:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ENh1Yt017455; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:43:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2ENglwb017182 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:42:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 92265 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2006 23:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2006 23:42:41 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:42:45 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic In-Reply-To: <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:43:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44175532.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 23:01 14/03/2006, you wrote: >That is very sheek! :-) >What would you use for the small bows? >I would recomend you to use silk ribbon of the kind used for ribbon >work, its so soft and delicate and would make very nice bows. > >Bjarne > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" >To: "Historical Costume List" >Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:09 PM >Subject: [h-cost] Glove pic > > >>Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I >>was talking about: >> >>http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg >> >>Look familiar to anyone? This looks like a redrawing from a painting of someone who was imprisoned in the Tower of London, and was painted with a cat. I copied these gloves for the Tower some years ago. I will look out the research and post as soon as I can. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 19:08:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F08Spm016316 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:08:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F08XwN013287; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:08:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F07ncd042112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:07:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F07kEM045260; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:07:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F07gxp045047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:07:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FJJYB-0006BM-K2; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:07:39 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:07:39 -0500 Message-ID: <20060314190739.s0hys2b1ppsss0gc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:07:39 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <005901c647b9$86c6dfa0$0401010a@michaela> In-Reply-To: <005901c647b9$86c6dfa0$0401010a@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:08:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44175B01.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting michaela : > < Sixteenth Century". When I checked her > source for the drawing, it was not an original painting as I had hoped, but > another book (Kelly's "Shakespearean Costume"). I know I have seen these > gloves in a painting just recently but I can't for the life of me recall the > painting itself. I had found a close-ish Spanish one, but it's hard to tell. > Does it ring a bell for anyone?>> > >> http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg > > > My first instinct was Spanish as well, due to how the hand is displayed (the > hand is vertical and holding either a glove or a handkerchief) and those > bows (Germans weren't quite as fond of bows as the Spanish were... I found a > lovely child's portrait on bildindex where she is wearing jewellery bows > even! Mind you the English are also fond of them....) but I have a feeling > in the redrawings some features may have changed. OOOh, cool! Do you have a URL or an accession number for that child's portrait? susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 21:14:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F2EkxW028019 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:14:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F2Eq69024086; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:14:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F2DeXR058487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:13:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F2DWn7047984; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:13:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.ttlc.net (mail.ttlc.net [66.94.32.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F2DSIX047927 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from DrJksnSgy@ttlc.net) Received: from [206.15.138.95] [206.15.138.95] by mail.ttlc.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.07) id A8411E1601CA; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:13:21 -0500 Message-ID: <4417783B.4030707@ttlc.net> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:13:15 -0500 From: Dot + Lee Fisher User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 18cWoman@yahoogroups.com, 19cWoman@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com, sewinghistoric@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Help with contract work fees X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:14:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4417789C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Help fellow listees, I just got word that my position as Historic Costume Designer at Strawbery Banke had been reorganized out of existence, and I'm looking at the 14 shifts and probably 14 girls gowns that need to be made for this summers camp. I've heard that I might me asked to make them on a contract basis, so here is my question. What would be a reasonable amount to charge for making these garments, if I should be asked? Even though I've been sewing at SB for 5 years now, I have no idea how much time it has taken me to make each item I've made. It's gotten all mixed up with laundry and repairs, etc. I'm also wondering about the Jr. Roleplayers camp that's to be set in the early 20th century. Nothing in the collection for 1919, so I had expected to be doing that, and of course still might but on a different arrangement. So if anyone can give me some guidelines on what to charge, I would appreciate it. Answer on or off list as seems appropriate. Dot Fisher former Historic Costume Designer Strawbery Banke Museum _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 14 22:48:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F3mea6032369 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:48:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F3mjx5021751; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:48:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F3mBn6071789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:48:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F3m3Im017714; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:48:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2F3lxTA017650 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:48:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 25635 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2006 19:47:59 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 25628, pid: 25630, t: 0.6273s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2006 19:47:58 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314194619.00f9f6a8@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:47:51 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Toga trim in Gladiator.. In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:48:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44178E9D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 05:07 AM 3/14/2006, you wrote: >I was rewatching Gladiators this weekend and wondered if there were >some color system to the toga trims. In some scenes there seemed to >be groups of black trim, red and I think blue....anyone aware of any >historical information for this? >Thanks, > >Sg The only color I have read about was purple (stripes of various defined widths that show class status), and that was restricted to senatorial and knightly classes. I don't know about any other colors. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 03:39:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F8dAOn024130 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 03:39:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F8dFpb009953; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 03:39:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F8ckxi016759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:38:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F8cWwN030578; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:38:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F8cS88030543 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:38:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-177-210.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.177.210]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F8cQqa004703 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:38:27 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:38:00 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 03:39:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4417D2B3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ah ha, Suzi, you've got it! It is Henry Wriothesley, the third Earl of Southampton. You can find his portrait in the portrait section of the http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/ page or I think this will take you directly there: http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/htm/gallery2/paintings/earlofsoton.htm An interesting piece of trivia about this portrait...it is supposedly the first English portrait painted with a cat in it. Cheers, Danielle At 05:42 PM 3/14/2006, you wrote: >At 23:01 14/03/2006, you wrote: >>That is very sheek! :-) >>What would you use for the small bows? >>I would recomend you to use silk ribbon of the kind used for ribbon >>work, its so soft and delicate and would make very nice bows. >> >>Bjarne >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" >>To: "Historical Costume List" >>Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:09 PM >>Subject: [h-cost] Glove pic >> >> >>>Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I >>>was talking about: >>> >>>http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg >>> >>>Look familiar to anyone? > > >This looks like a redrawing from a painting of someone who was >imprisoned in the Tower of London, and was painted with a cat. I >copied these gloves for the Tower some years ago. I will look out >the research and post as soon as I can. > >Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 04:08:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F98m9s030548 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:08:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2F98sY8018669; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:08:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F98Hjw026495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:08:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F98Gnb049970; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:08:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2F98BAV049827 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:08:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 46601 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2006 09:08:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2006 09:08:05 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060315090731.01de2658@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:08:13 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:08:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4417D9A6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 08:38 15/03/2006, you wrote: >Ah ha, Suzi, you've got it! It is Henry Wriothesley, the third Earl >of Southampton. You can find his portrait in the portrait section >of the http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/ page or I think this will >take you directly there: >http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/htm/gallery2/paintings/earlofsoton.htm >An interesting piece of trivia about this portrait...it is >supposedly the first English portrait painted with a cat in it. Thanks Danielle - save me having to search for my references! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 06:05:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FB5GoQ022254 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:05:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FB5MDP020305; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:05:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FB4il7043780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:04:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FB4YYU029591; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:04:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FB4Uq2029525 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:04:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2479d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.157]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7BC2226282E for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:04:26 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000b01c64820$44e1a630$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:04:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] embroidered mittens X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:05:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4417F4F2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Here is the first embroidered mittens. It is a little tricky because they are going to be cut on the bias, and they cant stretch where the embroidery is, ill waite and see how it goes. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purse.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 06:40:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FBeHsD031229 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:40:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FBeN0h031787; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:40:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FBdtXV046655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:39:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FBdrgH052788; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:39:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2FBdmnV052694 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:39:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 58641 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2006 11:39:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2006 11:39:43 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060315113810.01d8a200@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:39:50 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Theatre Museum update (3rd try) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:40:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4417FD27.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My apologies if you receive this more than once - this is my third attempt to post. It is not coming back to me, so I assume it is not getting posted. "Dear Suzi, Thank you for your email to the Director. The press coverage is misleading, because the Trustees of the V&A have not yet made a decision. One option is to close the building, but others would include a different mix of activities in the building. The Theatre Museum has had no success in raising the capital money for redevelopment of its current premises (which it rents, not owns) and the feedback from potential public and private donors is that the funds needed to transform the Theatre Museum's building in Covent Garden would not repay the investment given the limitations of the building. Given the serious limitations of the building we are looking at the feasibility of achieving greater appreciation of the collections without continuing with the building. If we had no Covent Garden building we would be looking at: 1. having a permanent display about the collections at the main building in South Kensington 2. running education programmes in our new Education Centre 3. large and smaller scale exhibitions at the main museum building 4. more touring exhibitions (in the UK and abroad) 5. more partnerships with major theatre organisations in the UK 6. Much greater investment in digitising the collection and providing web access and education material. Visits to the Theatre Museum website have been growing rapidly. It is worth remembering that the displays at Covent Garden represent a very tiny fraction of the collections. The core study collection moved in 2005 to Blythe House (our storage and research centre in west london) where it was united with the reserve collection - This move has been very successful and the study room there provides much better access. Interestingly, most of the emails we have had so far are mainly concerned about the preservation of the archives and we are also very concerned to increase access (eg. through extended opening hours at Blythe House and greater web access to the collections). Ian Blatchford Deputy Director" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 07:48:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FCm4ev015884 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:48:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FCm9JG021118; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:48:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FClhg0054607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:47:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FCleY1096418; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:47:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav8.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FCladv096329 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:47:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:47:33 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:47:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:48:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2006 12:47:33.0366 (UTC) FILETIME=[A102F960:01C6482E] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:48:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44180D09.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO What is the reason that several Dutch portraits have the person wearing one glove and holding the other? Most of them are on the right hand but the one of Valois one is on the left. If nothing else, I've been introduced to the massive amounts of portraits from the references in this discussion board. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic > Ah ha, Suzi, you've got it! It is Henry Wriothesley, the third Earl of > Southampton. You can find his portrait in the portrait section of the > http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/ page or I think this will take you > directly there: > http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/htm/gallery2/paintings/earlofsoton.htm > An interesting piece of trivia about this portrait...it is supposedly the > first English portrait painted with a cat in it. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > At 05:42 PM 3/14/2006, you wrote: >>At 23:01 14/03/2006, you wrote: >>>That is very sheek! :-) >>>What would you use for the small bows? >>>I would recomend you to use silk ribbon of the kind used for ribbon work, >>>its so soft and delicate and would make very nice bows. >>> >>>Bjarne >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" >>> >>>To: "Historical Costume List" >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:09 PM >>>Subject: [h-cost] Glove pic >>> >>> >>>>Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I >>>>was talking about: >>>> >>>>http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg >>>> >>>>Look familiar to anyone? >> >> >>This looks like a redrawing from a painting of someone who was imprisoned >>in the Tower of London, and was painted with a cat. I copied these gloves >>for the Tower some years ago. I will look out the research and post as >>soon as I can. >> >>Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 07:54:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FCsBPE016884 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:54:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FCsHuA023121; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:54:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FCs0Ia055361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:54:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FCrx3n001197; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:53:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FCrsZg001138 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 05:53:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.152] (pm5-152.eos.net [205.133.149.152]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k2FCrqhI000884 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:53:52 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:41:43 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603141900.k2EJ0GbF043948@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:54:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44180E79.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > In latin: (for those who don't trust translations :-) > Femoralia hi qui in via diriguntur de vestario > accipiant, quae revertentes lota ibi restituant. Et > cucullae et tunicae sint aliquanto a solio quas habent > modice meliores; quas exeuntes in via accipiant de > vestario et revertentes restituant. > > And in English: > Brothers going on a journey should get underclothing > from the wardrobe. On their return they are to wash it > and give it back. Their cowls and tunics, too, ought > to be somewhat better than those they ordinarily wear. > Let them get these from the wardrobe before departing, > and on returning put them back. Wow! And I thought "Wear clean underwear without holes in case you get in a car crash and have to go to the hospital" was a NEW sensibility! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 08:12:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FDCOpE019389 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:12:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FDCUEg029883; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:12:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FDC8QC057262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:12:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FDC6UU014260; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:12:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FDC2Wj014155 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:12:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A29A0244; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:11:54 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.141 ([209.131.80.141] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 15 Mar 2006 08:11:44 -0500 Message-ID: <003901c64832$560d1360$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:14:02 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:12:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441812BE.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO This was my first thought, too!! Makes one wonder what the daily "Rule" was. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:41 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear > > > > In latin: (for those who don't trust translations :-) > > Femoralia hi qui in via diriguntur de vestario > > accipiant, quae revertentes lota ibi restituant. Et > > cucullae et tunicae sint aliquanto a solio quas habent > > modice meliores; quas exeuntes in via accipiant de > > vestario et revertentes restituant. > > > > And in English: > > Brothers going on a journey should get underclothing > > from the wardrobe. On their return they are to wash it > > and give it back. Their cowls and tunics, too, ought > > to be somewhat better than those they ordinarily wear. > > Let them get these from the wardrobe before departing, > > and on returning put them back. > > Wow! And I thought "Wear clean underwear without holes in case you get in a > car crash and have to go to the hospital" was a NEW sensibility! > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 08:43:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FDhN5Y020336 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:43:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FDhTIG009784; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:43:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FDh5Bp060136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:43:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FDh3qC035565; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:43:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FDgx12035531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:43:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:26209 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJWHF-0008BT-SZ for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:43:02 -0600 Message-ID: <024301c64836$5f1a70c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4417783B.4030707@ttlc.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with contract work fees Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:42:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:43:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44181A01.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I can't give you any specific numbers, but do not sell yourself short! Contract work means an extra 15% in self-employment tax, and if you're losing office space or other overhead type things, you'll need to compensate for that as well. Make sure you know who'll be paying for your supplies; in some types of contract work, the contractor is expected to cover expenses. Also, is SB in financial trouble? I just glanced at their website, which has their 2004 annual report (but nothing more recent) and it looks like they were doing pretty good then. If they're not in trouble, but are reorganizing for the sake of reorganizing, don't be afraid to negotiate even if this sort of job is a bit on the rare side--you're the one who knows what they do there and how they do it. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 09:16:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FEGxrM021457 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:16:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FEH4Gj023921; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:17:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FEGQrs063802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:16:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FEGJiR060304; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:16:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.177.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2FEGEk6060165 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:16:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lenastrid@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 13702 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2006 14:16:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=SCm5T/qn4vdigS636YtMos4K5uxMDoXHUlZjmqYYl2DyIddyvRHZTMSbw+wGZ30aKoCpmMGPeisNrECYJyhTQ5FwI9BCaPJ6GQ1/x4fZ4lYlnYTcjyyCvIvZdNb7/lSYOX3yufMaGmst4eI78ryRPA6+rc6Fl7x4CmxDa6QVY78= ; Message-ID: <20060315141609.13700.qmail@web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.158.62.84] by web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:16:09 GMT Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:16:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Lena Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <003901c64832$560d1360$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:17:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441821E0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Makes one wonder what the daily "Rule" was. > > Kathleen > Well, since the copies were still in my bag... In English only, 'cos I'm lazy: "The clothing distributed to the brothers should vary according to local conditions and climate, because more is needed in cold regions and less in warmer. This is left to the abbot's discretion. We believe that for each monk a cowl and tunic [cucullam et tunicam] will suffice in temperate regions; in winter a woolen cowl is necessary, in summer a thinner or worn one; also a scapular [scapulare] for work, and footwear - both sandals and shoes [pedules et caligas]. [...] To provide for laundering and night wear, every monk will need two cowls and two tunics, but anything more must be taken away as superfluous." It doesn't say anything about hosen, but I'm not sure if that's due to the translation, or if Benedict wrote it with a mediterranean climate in mind. Or possibly they should just put up with the cold. /Lena ___________________________________________________________ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 09:25:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FEPlvr021732 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:25:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FEPra7027480; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:25:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FEPPLt064715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:25:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FEPOhs067209; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:25:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FEPLj2067169 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:25:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2479d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.157]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 60CB7262834 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:25:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c6483c$4e0dc240$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:25:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] finished belt pouch X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:25:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441823F1.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, With permission of the commisioner, i have posted pics of the finished medieval belt pouch with lion rampants at: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beltpouch.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 09:42:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FEgFUn022229 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:42:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FEgLhe001798; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:42:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FEfTTK066477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:41:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FEfQ7I079348; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:41:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FEfKNc079275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:41:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:26627 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJXBj-0005Yl-Kn for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:41:24 -0600 Message-ID: <026801c6483e$85fb9ef0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c6483c$4e0dc240$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished belt pouch Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:41:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:42:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441827CD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Beautifully done, Bjarne! I'm curious--what is that silver cord couched around the edge of the flap? It looks a bit like some of the jaceron/pearl purl stuff I've been window shopping at lately. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 10:13:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFDpYD023312 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:13:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFDvjb017651; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:14:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFDO2d070830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:13:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFDMbc006249; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:13:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFDG1g006185 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:13:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2479d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.157]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E3968262854 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:13:15 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c64842$ff686170$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c6483c$4e0dc240$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <026801c6483e$85fb9ef0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished belt pouch Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:13:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:14:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44182F35.00A by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Well i dont actually know the excact name of this type of metal thread. I baught this from Silke Anette in Denmark, who carries all the hard to find things here. Its not hollow inside, but i cauched it on with red sewing silk. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished belt pouch > Beautifully done, Bjarne! I'm curious--what is that silver cord couched > around the edge of the flap? It looks a bit like some of the > jaceron/pearl purl stuff I've been window shopping at lately. > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 10:34:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFYOpb024055 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:34:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFYUtl027349; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:34:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFXl0o075220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:33:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFXgHU026176; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:33:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFXbHB025969 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:33:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.231.8b167b7 (16098) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:33:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-r19 (mblk-r19.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.210]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID112-3ee2441833ca109; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:33:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:33:30 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8165CF222AD20-1758-2B08@mblk-r19.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603141900.k2EJ0GbG043948@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-r19.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.210) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:33:30 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603141900.k2EJ0GbG043948@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.210 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Toga trim in Gladiator X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:34:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44183406.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ooh! I was just reading about this! The Roman hippodrome had four stables which each had a different color associated with it: red, green, blue, and white. They were like different teams, so maybe the filmmakers assumed people would have dressed in their teams' colors just like modern sports fans (and I wouldn't be surprised if they were right). Those four colors were also associated with the four political factions that served as labor unions/guilds/political machines for the city of Rome, and later Constantinople, so alternatively, they could have been implying that those people were supporters of those factions. I haven't found out yet if the stables were associated with the factions, but in Constantinople, the emperor Justinian was nearly overthrown by an alliance of the four factions at the end of a chariot race in the hippodrome, which seems to have been used by the factions to whip the crowd into a suitably revolutionary frenzy. I hope this helps! Tea Rose ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:04 -0700 From: WickedFrau Subject: [h-cost] Toga trim in Gladiator.. I was rewatching Gladiators this weekend and wondered if there were some color system to the toga trims. In some scenes there seemed to be groups of black trim, red and I think blue....anyone aware of any historical information for this? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 10:39:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFdrQr024311 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:39:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFdxfi029691; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFdWPO076269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFdVuU032122; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFdQjn031943 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2f3.119f043 (15874) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:39:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-r19 (mblk-r19.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.210]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID71-3e024418352311f; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:39:15 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:39:15 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8165DC01A511C-1758-2B81@mblk-r19.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603151534.k2FFXhGm026205@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-r19.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.210) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:39:15 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603151534.k2FFXhGm026205@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.210 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: double post X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:40:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418354F.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Oops, sorry for the double post! Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 10:48:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFm0k6024590 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:48:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFm6mq000749; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:48:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFlgGB077638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:47:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFlbj2039777; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:47:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFlQHb039513 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:47:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2FFlKc31326 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:47:20 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060315141609.13700.qmail@web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20060315141609.13700.qmail@web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <03C0F0DB-811E-4D81-A44C-20B1C2063A9A@alfalfapress.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:47:18 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:48:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44183736.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Does anyone have similar info on nuns around 700? All I've found is the Rule of Ceasarius. Althea On Mar 15, 2006, at 6:16 AM, Lena wrote: > > --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > >> >> Makes one wonder what the daily "Rule" was. >> >> Kathleen >> > > Well, since the copies were still in my bag... > > In English only, 'cos I'm lazy: > "The clothing distributed to the brothers should vary > according to local conditions and climate, because > more is needed in cold regions and less in warmer. > This is left to the abbot's discretion. We believe > that for each monk a cowl and tunic [cucullam et > tunicam] will suffice in temperate regions; in winter > a woolen cowl is necessary, in summer a thinner or > worn one; also a scapular [scapulare] for work, and > footwear - both sandals and shoes [pedules et > caligas]. > [...] > To provide for laundering and night wear, every monk > will need two cowls and two tunics, but anything more > must be taken away as superfluous." > > It doesn't say anything about hosen, but I'm not sure > if that's due to the translation, or if Benedict wrote > it with a mediterranean climate in mind. Or possibly > they should just put up with the cold. > > /Lena > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http:// > www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." William of Conches, 12th century _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 10:58:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFw19v024993 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFw7IC005186; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFqbN9078349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:52:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFqS7q044746; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:52:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFq2Ke044337 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:52:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.26a.7854994 (18555) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:51:45 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <26a.7854994.31499210@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:51:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with contract work fees To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418398F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/15/2006 8:43:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: Contract work means an extra 15% in self-employment tax, Yes, be sure you remember that you will be responsible for not only income tax, but both portions of social security withholding (that is, employer and employee). However, also remember that, as this is Schedule C income, you can deduct ALL your expenses. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 10:58:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFwUCS025006 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FFwajM020113; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFwLSb079462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:58:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFwI6L050314; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:58:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu (mail.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFwCbi050196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:58:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldh@ece.gatech.edu) Received: from localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFwCET025949 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu ([199.77.227.200]) by localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 27536-02 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.95] (adsl-065-012-177-048.sip.asm.bellsouth.net [65.12.177.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFw92O025913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4418399A.4020204@ece.gatech.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:18 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ece.gatech.edu Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:58:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441839AC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Becky wrote: > What is the reason that several Dutch portraits have the person > wearing one glove and holding the other? So... Michael Jackson was influenced by Dutch Renaissance Portraiture! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 11:10:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FGAhAL025380 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:10:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FGAnax011142; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:10:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FGAQkN081871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:10:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FGAMgh062732; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:10:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FGA5Xm062558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:10:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:26986 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJYZd-0005t3-HW for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:10:10 -0600 Message-ID: <028a01c6484a$ebf7c060$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c6483c$4e0dc240$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><026801c6483e$85fb9ef0$e100a8c0@compaqub> <000601c64842$ff686170$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished belt pouch Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:10:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:10:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44183C89.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > Well i dont actually know the excact name of this type of metal thread. I > baught this from Silke Anette in Denmark, who carries all the hard to find > things here. Its not hollow inside, but i cauched it on with red sewing > silk. Ah well--it looks very nice! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 11:20:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FGKZaO025733 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:20:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FGKf5L015746; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:20:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FGJxR3083087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:19:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FGJivo070430; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:19:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FGJ0o0069789 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:19:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm30.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4192C40743 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:19:00 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm30 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060315081900.FD007303@resin03.mta.everyone.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:19:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EGD50WFTopQEAAAAB,8825830427b016018c249fb2e4822ecb X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:20:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44183EDA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Some links for you: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/gallery/linens/undies.html - chemises at the bottom of the page http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/diary/diary3.html - a how to for a gathered neck chemise http://costume.dm.net/chemise.html - the smock generator which links from this page is very good http://www.vertetsable.com/demos_shirt.htm - the demo is for a shirt, but shifts/chemises had very little to distinguish them from each other - usually only the length ( a shift tended to be longer ) and whether the garment had side gores or was just straight up and down ( shifts had the side gores ) - this entire site is well worth having a good look at. http://freespace.virgin.net/f.lea/shiftdesign.html - some good pictures http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/firstthingsfirst.htm - follow the links to some good pictures of extant chemises http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/diaries/hand%20Linen%20camicia.htm - another gathered and stitched neckline http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/diaries/Morgans%20Closet/Chemise%201630.htm - another shift HTH Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- roscelinlimoges@comcast.net wrote: Is there anywhere I can see how this is done? This is the first time I've heard about this technique. I was always under the belief that drawstrings were used in the neckline and cuffs. Since I have to make myself some new chemises this is a good time to learn the new technique (new to me). Roscelin -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Kate M Bunting" > We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to be > that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, not > drawstrings. 17th century reenactors commonly do make shifts with drawstrings, > presumably because that's how we would make modern garments that look like that > (i.e. "peasant" or "gypsy"-style blouses). > I'm not a Tudor expert, but presumably the ruff developed from a chemise neck > gathered into a ruffle? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 11:42:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FGg7eH026654 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:42:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FGgCqX025190; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:42:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FGfW0w086775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:41:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FGfKYA090803; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:41:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms040pub.verizon.net (vms040pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FGf60k090508 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from n.mm@gte.net) Received: from POGO.gte.net ([71.111.132.39]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IW600ADFH0BMM34@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:41:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:40:58 -0800 From: Nancy Millis-MacHaffie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with contract work fees In-reply-to: <4417783B.4030707@ttlc.net> X-Sender: res04vv9@incoming.verizon.net (Unverified) To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.1.20060315082431.02a20530@incoming.verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:42:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441843E4.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm sorry, Dot. :( <> As a former Payroll Specialist contractor vs employee contractors use their own equipment, no one tells the contractor how to *do* the work, but does tell them what the finished product will look like. Are they going to supply the materials or are you going to to buy them. (That actually makes a big difference) This might help a bit. My husband wrote a technical book and here is what we had to pay as self employed. Federal taxes: 28% SS (emplyee) 7.65% SS (empyer) 7.65% State Tax: varies, you'll have to check... This comes out of your pocket at quarter end when you must file an estimated or business tax... I'm not sure which, but I'm sure someone else knows. :) So if they offer you your old hourly rate, it will really be a 7.65% pay cut for you. Also, I don't believe you can pay at your old Federal rate, which may or may not have been around 10 - 15%, so that's another (temporary?) pay cut. You should get the difference back at the end of the year, but that's a bit long to wait... State rates may also change self employed vs employee withholding, possible another (temporary?) pay cut. There are also your expenses. Your machine wear and tear Electricity Cost of Goods purchased (If you are using their equipment and their materials, you are probably *not* a contractor. I'm not sure of the rules for "Piecework" compensation.) Hourly wage for you. At least minimum in your state. HTH Kids are up so I must fly Good luck! Nancy MM _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 13:27:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FIRfdC030833 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:27:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FIRkWT002711; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:27:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FIQvRj007554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:26:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FIQLG5089873; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EIJv4l007937 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:19:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i14so1297910wra for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:19:48 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=sjLGOYnqWEzu0/9kc69LjenbcPefgFFuxCKNwJ8FjTdRC99DKXvawf2g02ZraC9Amg4ffpFinwdHzazcoIAHUjXszT2oMTP60V04iyfh3Yu+DLGySlWxbzJ68gXlbm390ULLKN4wfZnl5GDRBP1CSSLOVfN2ww5Z2RNc5x/5NQo= Received: by 10.64.24.20 with SMTP id 20mr276210qbx; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:19:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:19:48 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2EIJv4l007937 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Vintage Clothing "Swap Meet" & tea dance - Palo Alto, Calif X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:27:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44185CA2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO sorry for the short notice, ladies & gents! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com On March 26, 2006 there will be a Vintage Clothing "Swap Meet" from 3:30 - 4:00pm at the Masonic Center preceding the Paul Price Society Orchestra Monthly Tea Dance. Come to the sale, and stay for the dance (see information below). The sale will continue from 4:00 to 6:30 outside the Tea Dance (which has an admission charge). Everyone is welcome to bring vintage or "vintage-like" clothing or accessories to sell or trade. We will have tables set up, but bring your own hanging racks if you have them. There will be some great bargains, so bring your check book! For more information, email Karen at kalinsky@stanford.edu -------------------------------- March 26, 2006 The Pomander/Art Deco Tea Dance Featuring vintage dance music played with authentic élan by The Paul Price Society Orchestra "Like being in The Big Broadcast of 1928!" The Art Deco Society of California Announces The Pomander Tea Dances On the Fourth Sunday of Every Month through April (Next Dance:Sunday, April 23, 2006) 4:00 to 6:30 p.m. Palo Alto Masonic Center, 461 Florence (near University) $12.50 per person/$10.00 ADSC Members Tea and light refreshments will be served. Afternoon/cocktail attire; period dress admired but not required. For more information, please call 650-279-3598, or go to www.PaulPriceOrchestra.com. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 13:30:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FIUOQT030937 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:30:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FIUU99003990; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:30:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FITw8t008443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:29:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FITrYk093587; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:29:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2EJ5rop049438 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:05:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 98699 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2006 19:05:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=XCNwiFhDVlmWmUPIO/b9S09tYkvEVw3uy2KIBlwlyeo3nOrlai67EdeUVhAIFzHRyaDVP9qRY5MNJLMirzNijSC1tGBzew3jfy293J04aYihokA89irkTGLI6IGl6VMOksv55jNNdbEcXUxElk1PQ/fCJWYkM4LR04O1Tuszs6U= ; Message-ID: <20060314190547.98697.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:05:47 PST Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: "h-costume@indra.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Equestrian, et al X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:30:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44185D46.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I had no idea there were so many! Went to my first Ithra (SCA school) this weekend, and was overjoyed to meet some like minded people (costuming, horses and cooking!) First of all, begging pardon for mentioning certain items and not posting links, it becomes really awkward without opening a half dozen other windows at the same time, and I usually end up closing the wrong ones and losing my message. I will do a search to see if I can find pictures of some of the references I mention in response. It has been a busy week, but finally able to get back to the costume list. Am I the only one that did not recieve issue 230? Attended a class on equestrian barding this weekend, and one of the things that came up in discussion was the aside vs. astride issue. >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:09:35 -0600 >From: "Diane Maynard" >Subject: RE: [h-cost] Equestrian costumers and other hobbies - sort of >OT > >-----Original Message----- >Annette and others- > >Can we make a subgroup that deals with riding outfits and horse items? > >Personally, I am right there with you on the costuming for riders and >horses. I own a horse farm that does classical riding (Dressage, >Combined Training, Jumpers) but, I do SCA and other historical costuming as >well. I compete on horseback in the SCA with my full Elizabethan gowns... > I already have a gorgeous saddle---just need a beautiful >period bridle for my big grey warmblood. > >Diane Oohh, see! - although I do my dressage and 3-day with a big Thoroughbred. > >>On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Kahlara wrote: > > Over the years I have found that most of my creative associations seem > to have at least two or three similarities in other areas as well as > the shared interest in which we first became aquainted. > > I have noticed several list members make reference to horses and > riding. I ride and own horses also.Much snippage> > Just a little generalizing. ;-) > >Message: 5 >Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:42:03 +0000 (GMT) >From: julian wilson >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > > Annette, Susan, and others - > according to Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon, - he estimates that of >the entire SCA membership, possibly only 10% can actually ride, - and >fewer still own their own horses. > There must be so much specialised "Equestrian Lore" of costume, of >bardings, of other tacks - of which we are unaware, - it would seem >likely to be a subject of considerable interest to those of us who don't >"ride" horses in these Modern Middle Ages. For example....... > The "riding side-saddle, riding astride"-debate has it's own >fascinations - Chaucer's illustrators clearly show the female Pilgrims riding >astride - but I have read comments confusing the issue, by moderns, >flatly stating that even during the 15th Century, all women rode >fully-side-saddle, or sat behind a Male servant. Evidence supports that the side-saddle in any form at all - didn't even exist until the 15th century. And the "modern" side saddle was developed possibly as recently as the 18th century. >Did this call for divided >skirts? or did women wear hosen under their skirts so as to be able to ride >astride yet keep their modesty? Just speculation, but my thinking that women wore hosen and tucked their skirts in a proprietary manner when riding. The specific image I am thinking of - someone posted the link (of the Wife of Bath riding astride?), clearly looks as if this is the case. >> Julian, in Old Jersey > >Message: 8 >Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:27:46 -0500 >From: Susan Data-Samtak >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > >From what I've been able to find out: he short version of Astride vs Aside: > I know there are pictures of >females riding astride as well as sideways with their back parallel to >the right side of the horse and their feet at right angles to the >horse's left side. (Did I make this perfectly unclear?) Like sitting in >a chair. Others rode sideways behind a man. Some even had a board to >place their feet on. Often the horse was led by a footman, controlling >the horse. It was thought that ladies couldn't control a large beast >like a horse. > >Women also rode "palfreys"- gaited horses, also called "ambling" >horses. Supposedly, the Paso Fino Breed, (my horse is a PF) has the >palfrey in its background. I just attended a class this past weekend on questrian barding and trappings, and the instructor had information that documented ambling as the equivalent of our modern day pacing - with the horses being taught to pace in the same manner. It wasn't included in part of the hand out, so I don't have the reference information to pass on. > >Susan > >Message: 10 >Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:47:04 -0600 >From: "Land of Oz" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > >LADIES, on the other hand, adhered to strict rules of conduct and kept >their legs together for propriety------------------------- > >I've never seen anything depicting this style of riding. Links ? I can see >where a footman would have to lead a person seated like this, as it >would be a little like driving a car from the backseat. This position would put >the woman more in the class of cargo, rather than "riding". It would be a >form of transportation similar to sitting in a wagon, I'm sure. There is a 17th century French "side-saddle" of this type in the Herme's collection in Paris (yes, the same as the handbag people) that can be placed on the horse either way for the rider to face either the left or right side of the horse. This sort of saddle would necessitate the horse being led by a groom or some such person. > >Which is not the same at all as riding side-saddle. I can't speak to >specific time periods but I know I have read descriptions of women >wearing breeches or jodhpurs under a "false" skirt that looked and functioned >like a skirt when walking, but had a buttoned panel associated with function >under saddle. I would think that this would be a later period attire. The term jodphur originates in India and was brought back to Europe by the British - as I understand it. > >I would join an equestrian clothing group! >Denise > >Message: 12 >Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:28:18 -0600 >From: "Diane Maynard" >Subject: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack >periods before this time frame did not have the "modesty" that we refer >to and women (and Ladies) that rode and controlled their own horse would >ride astride. Women that were traveling but, did not "Ride" would travel by >Pillion saddle. A Pillion is a pad or cushion that attaches behind the saddle as a seat for a passenger, especially a woman. > By the 16 th century, Catherine de Medici >began to ride "Side-Saddle" for hunting. She actually took her husband's >hunting saddle and threw her leg over the front horn. There is >what is considered one of Elizabeth I 's side saddles in one of the London >museums. Although considered quite an accomplished rider and well verse in >hunting, when doing a parade or any public display, Queen Elizabeth I was >normally being led to insure nothing could happen to endanger her. There are >also accounts of Queen Elizabeth I wearing her Farthingale and that they >were so large as to dwarf the mount she was riding. There are numerous >portraits of Ladies and Queens riding astride through the 17 th century. It is not >until the Victorian time frame that it becomes extremely improper for a Lady >to ride astride. >In case no one can tell----I find the history of the side saddle >fascinating and I also ride side-saddle. > >Diane > >Message: 11 >Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:15:38 -0600 >From: Melanie Schuessler >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming and other period tack > >Here are a couple from the 17th century, courtesy of Web Gallery of Art: > >VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >Queen Isabel of Bourbon Equestrian >1634-35 >Oil on canvas, 301 x 314 cm >Museo del Prado, Madrid >http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0506vela.jpg > >VELÁZQUEZ, Diego Rodriguez de Silva y >Queen Margarita on Horseback >1634-35 >Oil on canvas, 297 x 309 cm >Museo del Prado, Madrid >http://www.wga.hu/art/v/velazque/05/0503vela.jpg > >It's really hard for me to tell whether they're riding astride or sidesaddle, but perhaps >someone with more equestrian experience could venture. I would be interested in seeing these larger, or in person. In the first painting it is a little more difficult to tell, but in the second, it looks as if the material of the "saddle cloth" appears above and behind the woman's skirt on the horse's rear end, and possibly in both. The draping of the dress fabric over the front of the saddle also suggests the possibility of a leg hooked around a saddle horn underneath. > >Melanie Schuessler >http://www.faucet.net/costume > > >------------------------------ >Message: 9 >Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:48:06 +1100 >From: "Elizabeth Walpole" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > >While we're on the topic of Equestrian Costume I came across this fashion plate >http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/women/fashionplates/1859septharpers.jpg >from 1859. I was under the impression that women didn't wear hoops or >skirt supports (of whatever style was fashionable at the time) when they were >riding (as hoops would stand out from the horse's side giving those >below a view straight up your skirt and bustles or paniers would get in the way >of you sitting on the horse), but it seems difficult to believe there >isn't a crinoline under that skirt. This is a fashion plate drawing, and if anything like today's fashion plate drawings shows off the garment to make it look as good as possible. In other words - not necessarily like it would look in real life. I would assume that as it was fashionable for the time however, some sort of crinoline structure would have been worn with a riding habit. As with the paintings mentioned above, artistic license can alter what we know as realistic to create a more dramatic and appealing appearance. >I'm pretty sure Victorian riding >habits were only worn when you planned to be actually riding, so no >chance of having one for show and one for actually getting on a horse. >I'm stumped, if anybody else can offer insights I'm really curious to know. >Elizabeth >-------------------------------------------- >Elizabeth Walpole >Canberra Australia >ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au >http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > >------------------------------ > >Message: 11 >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:55:06 -0600 >From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian costuming & other period "tack" > >Hi Susan, > >I've seen an extant 16th c. English sidesaddle (Shakespeare's >Birthplace Museum) so I know they existed before 1800, and it is one >of the oddest looking things I've seen. >It was basically perfectly flat, oval shape on top with the pommel sticking up like a >monolith at the center front. There wasn't much else too it, beside >a rather normal looking saddle understructure - it was like instead >of having a normal saddle seat they filled that area in and stuck a >plate on top of it. It looked incredibly uncomfortable to sit on, >and I would imagine it would cut of the circulation to your legs in >no time at all. From what I have gleaned so far, the earliest predecessor of the modern sidesaddle had a double set of horns that stuck out of the top to the saddle and the rider wedged her leg between them. Over time the horns gradually moved to one side and into their present day configuration. > >IIRC, there is a drawing of a woman using a contraption to sit >sideways on a horse in Ruth Matilda Anderson's "Hispanic Costume: >1480 - 1530" as well. > >I found it interesting that Queen Elizabeth's saddle at Warwick >Castle is a normal "astride" saddle, if rather ornamented. > >Cheers, >Danielle > > >Message: 13 >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:31:29 -0500 >From: Susan Data-Samtak >Subject: [h-cost] equestrian site- aside or astride? > >Here is much info to digest. Comments? > >http://ilaria.veltri.tripod.com/sidesaddle.html Wow, lots of information that I have barely had time to just skim. Thanks for sharing the link. > >Susan > > >Message: 8 >Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:31:23 -0700 >From: WickedFrau >Subject: [h-cost] EQ-[Fwd: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group]-OT this >list for other than Historic Horse Costuming discussions > >Hi all, for those of you who expressed an interest in an "Other Than >Costuming" discussion place for historical equine discussions, here is >an option. I figured I would try it out. I still intend to post my >costume discussions to the h-costume list, but when the topic starts to >diverge to more horsey things...we can go here. >> >Message: 14 >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 00:17:26 -0700 >From: WickedFrau >Subject: Re: [h-cost] EQ-[Fwd: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group]-OT this >list for other than Historic Horse Costuming discussions > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historic_Horse/ > >Go to the above link. You should be able to see a "Join this Group" >button. You will be taken to a page to fill out which will tell the >moderator of the group why you are interested. You can reference this >note.... > >If you are new to Yahoo groups, the help screens are actually pretty >good: >http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/ > >If you have further questions about it, feel free to contact me off - list. > >Sg Fun discussion! And I am looking forward to discussing non-costume related historic equestrian topics. Annette M __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 13:31:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FIV2Gq030957 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:31:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FIV8ke014817; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:31:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FIUZTT008686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:30:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FIUVA3094314; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:30:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2EJ8i5I052031 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:08:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2EJ8O728776.; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:08:28 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:08:24 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:08:12 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Toga trim in Gladiator.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2EJ8i5I052031 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:31:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44185D6C.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The only one I know of is that young boys wore the "toga praetexta" with a purple (I think) border. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> wickedfrau@msn.com 14/03/2006 13:07 >>> I was rewatching Gladiators this weekend and wondered if there were some color system to the toga trims. In some scenes there seemed to be groups of black trim, red and I think blue....anyone aware of any historical information for this? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 13:55:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FItCb2031858 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:55:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FItIhI014113; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:55:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FImVcQ012502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:48:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FImHPh011100; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:48:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FIaM89000299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:36:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FJar1-00044E-Gh; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:36:15 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:36:15 -0500 Message-ID: <20060315133615.gsoptx40noooco0k@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:36:15 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian, et al References: <20060314190547.98697.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060314190547.98697.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:55:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44186316.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Kahlara : > I had no idea there were so many! Went to my first Ithra (SCA school) > this weekend, and was overjoyed to meet some like minded people > (costuming, horses and cooking!) > > First of all, begging pardon for mentioning certain items and not > posting links, it becomes really awkward without opening a half dozen > other windows at the same time, and I usually end up closing the > wrong ones and losing my message. I will do a search to see if I can > find pictures of some of the references I mention in response. Ah, then you need to switch to The Better Browser :-) Use Mozilla or Firefox (or Safari if you're on a Mac) -- they're tabbed browsers -- meaning in one browser window, you can have *many* tabs open to different pages. Right now, I have a tab to cnn.com, wunderground.com, yahoo groups, my email, eBay, 2 Taxonomy web sites (dissertation related), and Festive Attyre. Mozilla has everything, Firefox is just a broswer. http://mozilla.org Susan (down with IE!) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 13:58:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FIwUe2032032 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:58:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FIwaDk015500; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:58:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FIw371014745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FIv6kP019453; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:57:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FDlw31038908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:48:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:26210 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJWM5-0000EI-Nm for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:48:02 -0600 Message-ID: <024f01c64837$11cbd510$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1><6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060315113810.01d8a200@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Theatre Museum update (3rd try) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:47:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441863DC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I hate to say it, but for those of us in the US, it sounds like it would be better if the building did close down! =} I'd love to see more of the collection digitized, and wouldn't mind seeing it on tour. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 14:00:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJ0qtv032122 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:00:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJ0wg7016594; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:01:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FItIsK014111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:55:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FIstNI017258; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:54:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F6RY1f041695 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:27:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:27:33 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.57.23 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:27:28 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.57.23] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:27:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:27:09 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2006 06:27:33.0461 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B359050:01C647F9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:01:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418646A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2FJ0qtv032122 Status: RO >>This looks like a redrawing from a painting of someone who was imprisoned in the Tower of London, and was painted with a cat. I copied these gloves for the Tower some years ago. I will look out the research and post as soon as I can. Suzi The picture Suzi is thinking of is a portrait of Henry Wriothesley 3rd Earl of Southampton and Trixie c. 1601-03. (Trixie is the cat.) Maybe some technically oriented person could set up a group blog for us so we could post pictures like this. I have the picture but no easy way to get it out to you. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 14:26:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJQJX9000671 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:26:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJQPHJ027953; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:26:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FJPupM021034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:25:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FJPksb046764; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:25:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F1GQv0006011 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:16:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.192]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060315011620.BXUL27715.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:16:20 +1300 Received: from web1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([219.89.178.63]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060315011619.MRJD16143.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@web1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:16:19 +1300 Received: from michaela ([219.89.178.63]) by web1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail vG.2.00.00.00 201-2161-108-101-20050407) with ESMTP id <20060315011619.BLXU4700.web1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:16:19 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.385 [268.2.3/281]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:16:27 +1300 Message-ID: <007701c647ce$154ed200$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><005901c647b9$86c6dfa0$0401010a@michaela> <20060314190739.s0hys2b1ppsss0gc@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:16:21 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:26:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44186A61.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > My first instinct was Spanish as well, due to how the hand is displayed (the > > hand is vertical and holding either a glove or a handkerchief) and those > > bows (Germans weren't quite as fond of bows as the Spanish were... I found a > > lovely child's portrait on bildindex where she is wearing jewellery bows > > even! Mind you the English are also fond of them....) but I have a feeling > > in the redrawings some features may have changed. > > OOOh, cool! Do you have a URL or an accession number for that child's > portrait? Poot, I was wrong, they are actually daisys: http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_10b.jpg The discussion about it was that there was a girl with bow shaped jewls but that was actually Maria Stuart in a white gown with bows down the front made from red jewels. I got the two mixed up in my memory;) http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Various_7.htm The Princess Royal, daughter of James I, VI and Anne, 1603. (National Maritime Museum)She's all in white with the red bows. I'm sure I've seen gold ones on someone though... but I can't find it... michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.3/281 - Release Date: 14/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 14:26:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJQQTY000674 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:26:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJQWAx016703; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:26:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FJPvZC021037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:25:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FJPkcZ046767; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:25:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ENxen5036428 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:59:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 388E236AB7 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:59:34 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:59:45 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Subject: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:26:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44186A68.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Some within my SCA group is pulling together costumes for early 1400s, Teutonic Knights and Lithuanians. This is not my forte' though I have become interested in the Lithuanian side. The Lady in charge has presented kits from her research that has piqued my curiosity. I have sent my questions to her but wish to see if anyone has information that she may not have as well as I have heard something different to something she has posted. De: Shouldn't there be some underwear? And I thought that a surcote and cyclas were two different types of outer garment. De: I have understood that even in this period (1410) that there were bright colors worn, not just sober even among the lower class. Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJSgeU000737 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:28:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJSlEc028839; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:28:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FJS9oT021413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:28:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FJRgjL048732; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:27:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFBu4r004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:26669 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJXfM-0008Vu-3k for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:12:00 -0600 Message-ID: <028001c64842$cc6facb0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004201c64710$e512c820$e9bfa6d8@pavilion> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:11:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] speaking of underwear... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:28:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44186AF0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I just came across an interesting image in my files: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1445-50austrianmedea7.jpg 15th century thong, anyone? It's amazing how you can suddenly notice something glaringly obvious even though you've looked at an image several times before without seeing anything unusual! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 14:28:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJSiwN000739 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:28:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJSokU018008; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:28:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FJSXL1021585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:28:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FJSU7S049700; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:28:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FGnfSI098071 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from n.mm@gte.net) Received: from POGO.gte.net ([71.111.132.39]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IW600FRTHEH7H83@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:49:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:49:28 -0800 From: Nancy Millis-MacHaffie In-reply-to: <26a.7854994.31499210@aol.com> X-Sender: res04vv9@incoming.verizon.net (Unverified) To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.1.20060315084145.02a56f38@incoming.verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: self employment tax question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:28:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44186AF2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, all, May I ask where the 15% increase comes in? The 7.65% Social Security/Medicare employee portion has already been withheld from her paycheck, so that will not make a difference in her net pay. (Except for possible Medical FSA plans/pre tax insurance reductions and the like) There is the employer portion of 7.65% which will now be payable by her and will be an increase in taxes paid. Is there a new or different tax that my husband and I may have missed and not paid???? (yikes!!!) Or am I assuming incorrectly that she's not trying to match her hourly wage after tax? Anxiously awaiting an answer, Nancy MM :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 14:29:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJTeVM000770 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:29:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FJThDp013091; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:29:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FJT84e021764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:29:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FJT35f050311; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:29:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2FJJoLD041570 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:20:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 70303 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2006 19:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2006 19:19:40 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060315191008.01de6300@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:19:47 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Theatre Museum update (3rd try) In-Reply-To: <024f01c64837$11cbd510$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060315113810.01d8a200@127.0.0.1> <024f01c64837$11cbd510$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:29:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44186B27.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 13:47 15/03/2006, you wrote: >I hate to say it, but for those of us in the US, it sounds like it >would be better if the building did close down! =} I'd love to see >more of the collection digitized, and wouldn't mind seeing it on tour. > >-E House You don't have to shut a museum to digitize its collection, or to tour some of its artifacts - look at the V and A, the Museum of London, Platt Hall, Manchester and many others. The museum has thousands of artifacts, far more than they could ever tour, and if they go into store they will never be seen again. That is one of the problems. And then there will be no possibility of anything being digitized, because once everything is stored, that will be it. We have seen this happen to other museum collections in England. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 15:11:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FKBkWU002424 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:11:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FKBqa8014926; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:11:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FKBPtU029266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:11:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FKAsON090021; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:10:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FJiY8n065275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:44:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FJbux-00061v-88; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:44:25 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:44:23 -0500 Message-ID: <20060315144423.jiyezykxccug4c8g@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:44:23 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><005901c647b9$86c6dfa0$0401010a@michaela> <20060314190739.s0hys2b1ppsss0gc@www.goldsword.com> <007701c647ce$154ed200$0401010a@michaela> In-Reply-To: <007701c647ce$154ed200$0401010a@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:11:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44187508.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting michaela : >> > My first instinct was Spanish as well, due to how the hand is displayed > (the >> > hand is vertical and holding either a glove or a handkerchief) and those >> > bows (Germans weren't quite as fond of bows as the Spanish were... I > found a >> > lovely child's portrait on bildindex where she is wearing jewellery bows >> > even! Mind you the English are also fond of them....) but I have a > feeling >> > in the redrawings some features may have changed. >> >> OOOh, cool! Do you have a URL or an accession number for that child's >> portrait? > > Poot, I was wrong, they are actually daisys: > http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_10b.jpg Neat picture, though. > > The discussion about it was that there was a girl with bow shaped jewls but > that was actually Maria Stuart in a white gown with bows down the front made > from red jewels. I got the two mixed up in my memory;) > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Various_7.htm > The Princess Royal, daughter of James I, VI and Anne, 1603. (National > Maritime Museum)She's all in white with the red bows. I'm sure I've seen > gold ones on someone though... but I can't find it... > > Also neat! Those could be bows, or flowers, or butterflies, or ..... Susan (sorry, the biologist is creeping out .....) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 15:35:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FKZ1bE003273 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:35:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FKZ6oA024770; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:35:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FKYPjP032951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:34:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FKY4UV012491; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:34:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2FKXrYU012135 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:33:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 14409 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2006 20:33:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=f3bBlwfh3fT0FM6J2+inZyhlW2qyUeid2db22fszM0cbraqp3MVN8TuVyqBS99w5FKiOeCoHWYmsmg0GZ7AG0lrv8yyI/Pxt+EVcO8f1NnZpowSUCp5OOapzC4bsVhOTesgMsHMH2E9FLZ3jH0eFQM5luYGbeOVAMTvbTOUPg1A= ; Message-ID: <20060315203344.14407.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:33:43 PST Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:33:43 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603151901.k2FJ0pLp023246@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: equestrian/side saddles and riding habits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:35:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44187A7A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ah, we already have Mozilla/Firefox. I see that I am just going to have to get more familiarized with it. This isn't the saddle I mentioned, but is very similar and chair like. http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady/Side-facing%20saddle%20detail.html And a predecessor of the modern with the 'horns' more near the pommel. http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady/1799%20side-saddle%20detail.html Her website also has some information on riding habits. http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady/Exhibits%20-%20riding%20habits.html I particularly like this one. It would be interesting to find more information on the 'riding corset' she mentions. http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady/1896%20French%20Riding%20Habit%20made%20up.html And patterns! http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady/Catalogue%20-%20dressmaking%20patterns.html Annette M (with the techno computer geek FI who adds 'cool' stuff to my computer while I am busy elsewhere) Message: 9 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:36:15 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Equestrian, et al Quoting Kahlara : > I had no idea there were so many! Went to my first Ithra (SCA school) > this weekend, and was overjoyed to meet some like minded people > (costuming, horses and cooking!) > > First of all, begging pardon for mentioning certain items and not > posting links, it becomes really awkward without opening a half dozen > other windows at the same time, and I usually end up closing the > wrong ones and losing my message. I will do a search to see if I can > find pictures of some of the references I mention in response. Ah, then you need to switch to The Better Browser :-) Use Mozilla or Firefox (or Safari if you're on a Mac) -- they're tabbed browsers -- meaning in one browser window, you can have *many* tabs open to different pages. Right now, I have a tab to cnn.com, wunderground.com, yahoo groups, my email, eBay, 2 Taxonomy web sites (dissertation related), and Festive Attyre. Mozilla has everything, Firefox is just a broswer. http://mozilla.org Susan (down with IE!) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 15:52:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FKq1Dq003882 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:52:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FKq7tR031320; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:52:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FKpTN7035629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:51:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FKpPwG029106; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:51:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FKpKcM028999 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:51:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=bnXBD6KbIqjYjf2VxHTtc/ZT+x9aQL/4Bd+ENhs9DDPQ2NzLQ6vGESTUlCYWUwnI; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.24] (helo=mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FJcrM-0008AJ-CE for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:44:44 -0500 Message-ID: <30536876.1142455484335.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:44:43 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: hpinto@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished belt pouch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b7773ad50acb24a6150c89f28592d5202350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.24 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:52:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44187E77.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Just incredible. Thanks for the pictures. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 16:20:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FLKObq004989 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:20:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FLKU3x010080; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:20:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FLK9FR039824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:20:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FLK6en055970; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:20:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FKmLT8026751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:48:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27136 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJcup-0005wh-1u for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:48:19 -0600 Message-ID: <02a701c64871$c61ecf10$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1><6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com><6.2.3.4.0.20060315113810.01d8a200@127.0.0.1><024f01c64837$11cbd510$e100a8c0@compaqub> <6.2.3.4.0.20060315191008.01de6300@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Theatre Museum update (3rd try) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:48:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:20:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418851E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I agree, but it seems more likely that they will feel the need to digitize under the circumstances they outlined; they already have it in mind as an option. I'd like the museum to stay open AND to send items out on tour & digitize them, but if it's going to be an either/or situation, then I'd rather have them available to me than in a country I'll never visit. Pragmatic! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 16:21:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FLLASF005024 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:21:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FLLGah019695; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:21:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FLKwdT039943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:20:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FLKvKc056790; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:20:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2FLKqIR056583 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:20:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 47319 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2006 21:20:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=TiGJi90DwNVZQinsGG8aWg/jKkyEe5baqKHJPIHJFcMeExGLAYjll85uGtBgBsWMJLeJ3Edhvm4AsPRA3NV0AsQWPueOHv4RgGdBBgpVMlPqpSDoDEEOg8xTxFBo0vmXh55C2XSRb6a9s6jgdcpTyw1R4lecuGk5BxOz8fVBp8M= ; Message-ID: <20060315212046.47317.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:20:46 PST Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:20:46 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: "h-costume@indra.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] period dye color references X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:21:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418854C.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In reference roughly to 12th - 14th centuries. I have been eyeing a lovely piece of magenta wool. My herbal book says this color can be attained using dandelion - the whole plant with no mordant. 1. are there any historical references for this color? I know that dandelion flowers produce a yellow dye. 2. no mordant implies that it would not be color fast. 3. are there any historical references to a magenta like color being produced with some other dye stuff? Or any suggestions where I might look for more information? Annette M (the fuschia/magenta/hot pink range is my favorite color for clothing!) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 16:51:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FLpABI006263 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:51:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FLpDI7021804; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:51:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FLoYJq045271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:50:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FLoCuY084467; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:50:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2FLnvHS084063 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:50:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 38698 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2006 21:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2006 21:49:43 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060315214901.01de4f48@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:49:51 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references In-Reply-To: <20060315212046.47317.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060315212046.47317.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:51:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44188C51.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 21:20 15/03/2006, you wrote: >In reference roughly to 12th - 14th centuries. I have been eyeing a >lovely piece of magenta wool. My herbal book says this color can be >attained using dandelion - the whole plant with no mordant. > > 1. are there any historical references for this color? I know > that dandelion flowers produce a yellow dye. > > 2. no mordant implies that it would not be color fast. > > 3. are there any historical references to a magenta like color > being produced with some other dye stuff? > > Or any suggestions where I might look for more information? > > > Annette M (the fuschia/magenta/hot pink range is my favorite > color for clothing!) I always thought that magenta was named after a battle in the Napoleonic wars but I could be way wrong! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 16:56:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FLuWSB006442 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:56:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FLubMi023558; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:56:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FLu7wG046257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:56:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FLu0ND090127; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:56:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FLjBBd079523 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:45:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.260.8b31702 (15700) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:44:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID52-3d5444188ac8224; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:44:41 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <028a01c6484a$ebf7c060$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <000501c6483c$4e0dc240$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><026801c6483e$85fb9ef0$e100a8c0@compaqub> <000601c64842$ff686170$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <028a01c6484a$ebf7c060$e100a8c0@compaqub> Message-Id: <671f159601c8894b58f51c958e420e03@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished belt pouch Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:44:39 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:56:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44188D95.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2FLuWSB006442 Status: RO How beautiful! Thanks for sharing. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 15, 2006, at 11:10 AM, E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > >> Well i dont actually know the excact name of this type of metal >> thread. I baught this from Silke Anette in Denmark, who carries all >> the hard to find things here. Its not hollow inside, but i cauched it >> on with red sewing silk. > > Ah well--it looks very nice! > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 17:23:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FMNudI007512 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:23:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FMO2Jn001167; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:24:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FMNZTH051112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:23:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FMNHMC014610; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:23:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FMN3xC014271 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:23:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2d6.4c13c15 (15703) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:17:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID54-3d5744189276123; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:17:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060315203344.14407.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060315203344.14407.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <9756a7f37b71fabd9977eea768dc4c85@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: equestrian/side saddles and riding habits Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:17:24 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:24:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44189402.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2FMNudI007512 Status: RO THANKS! I bookmarked these. 2 riding corsets are shown on the pattern page. the corset must be a bit more flexible for riding movements. Also need to be shorter in front so the right leg can be placed correctly over the upper pommel. I made a very nice corset in a class, but it is too long to ride in. I just have to make a shorter version! Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 18:57:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FNvMV0011149 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:57:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FNvSLw030259; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:57:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FNnKLI065445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:56:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FIvMtf019726; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:57:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FFX8fX025445 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:33:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.24a.8a26aaa (16098) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:33:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-r19 (mblk-r19.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.210]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID112-3ee2441833ac3d9; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:33:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:32:50 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8165CDA4DA977-1758-2AFA@mblk-r19.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603141900.k2EJ0GbG043948@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-r19.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.210) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:32:49 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603141900.k2EJ0GbG043948@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.210 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 250 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:57:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418A9E8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ooh! I was just reading about this! The Roman hippodrome had four stables which each had a different color associated with it: red, green, blue, and white. They were like different teams, so maybe the filmmakers assumed people would have dressed in their teams' colors just like modern sports fans (and I wouldn't be surprised if they were right). Those four colors were also associated with the four political factions that served as labor unions/guilds/political machines for the city of Rome, and later Constantinople, so alternatively, they could have been implying that those people were supporters of those factions. I haven't found out yet if the stables were associated with the factions, but in Constantinople, the emperor Justinian was nearly overthrown by an alliance of the four factions at the end of a chariot race in the hippodrome, which seems to have been used by the factions to whip the crowd into a suitably revolutionary frenzy. I hope this helps! Tea Rose ----------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:04 -0700 From: WickedFrau Subject: [h-cost] Toga trim in Gladiator.. I was rewatching Gladiators this weekend and wondered if there were some color system to the toga trims. In some scenes there seemed to be groups of black trim, red and I think blue....anyone aware of any historical information for this? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 18:57:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FNvMWN011150 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:57:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2FNvSs9030472; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:57:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FNnKLG065445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:56:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FKxlU9037041; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:59:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FKxDmi036429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27172 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJd5S-0007IV-3V for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:59:18 -0600 Message-ID: <02bb01c64873$4ee09da0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.1.20060315084145.02a56f38@incoming.verizon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: self employment tax question Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:59:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:57:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418A9E8.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sorry; I was giving the percentage that applied to me; no one is withholding anything in my case, so I have to withhold it all myself! That or list it all under 'other income', which works well if there are no deductions worth the trouble and if I don't care about social security, which I don't. As you illustrate, the percentage will vary depending on the specific situation, and I am not qualified in any way to give tax advice. -E House, libertarian in MO _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 19:17:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G0H5SK011821 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:17:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G0HBO3004350; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:17:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G0GjFL070605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:16:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G0G4tq013582; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:16:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G0FY49013264 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:16:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rwfranz@hotpop.com) Received: from titan (titan.cvip.net [129.8.220.33]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE1511530 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:15:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (cvip-dsl-206-90.cvip.net [129.8.206.90]) by titan.cvip.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.04 (built Feb 8 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IW70059Q21TAB@titan.cvip.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:15:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:15:30 +0000 From: rwfranz Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: self employment tax question In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.1.20060315084145.02a56f38@incoming.verizon.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4418AE22.2050304@hotpop.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051226) References: <5.1.0.14.1.20060315084145.02a56f38@incoming.verizon.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:17:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418AE87.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Go look at Schedule SE for the form 1040 - http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sse.pdf. The thing is, that the amount she is paid will change, but she has to pay her own taxes on it; most companies don't withhold on 1099s, as the consultant/contractor is responsible for that. In addition, changing from employed to self-employed imposes an accounting burden on the contractor. 1040ES forms will be due, and there may be minimum percentages (as someone else has commented; the percentage may increase from 10% to 28% just because of self-employment). Because the amount paid goes up, the Adjusted Gross Income goes up, even though the amount that's added in to compensate for SE is coming out on Sched SE, it still raises the AGI (go ahead. Try it. If you made 20000 employed, and 21530 self-employed (that 7.65%), your income tax amount rises by a chunk, leaving you with less), before the SE taxes come out again (they're not deductible, for some reason). So you need to compensate for that, too; if you don't, you lose money going to self-employment. I trust that's clear as mud. One good thing to do is get some tax software and figure out what's going to happen and how much you need to break even. It's not just a simple "add 7.65%" - would that it were. There's a reason so many CPAs have lucrative tax businesses. Roger Nancy Millis-MacHaffie wrote: > Hi, all, > > May I ask where the 15% increase comes in? The 7.65% Social > Security/Medicare employee portion has already been withheld from her > paycheck, so that will not make a difference in her net pay. (Except > for possible Medical FSA plans/pre tax insurance reductions and the > like) There is the employer portion of 7.65% which will now be payable > by her and will be an increase in taxes paid. Is there a new or > different tax that my husband and I may have missed and not paid???? > (yikes!!!) > > Or am I assuming incorrectly that she's not trying to match her hourly > wage after tax? > > Anxiously awaiting an answer, > > Nancy MM :) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 19:45:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G0jhDR012680 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:45:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G0jnHv011438; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:45:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G0jMNR075619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:45:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G0jKpc040813; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:45:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G0jG7h040729 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:45:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from n.mm@gte.net) Received: from POGO.gte.net ([71.111.132.39]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IW700GD93FAJ8Q2@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:45:11 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:45:09 -0800 From: Nancy Millis-MacHaffie Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: self employment tax question In-reply-to: <4418AE22.2050304@hotpop.com> X-Sender: res04vv9@incoming.verizon.net (Unverified) To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.1.20060315164422.02ab5518@incoming.verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed References: <5.1.0.14.1.20060315084145.02a56f38@incoming.verizon.net> <5.1.0.14.1.20060315084145.02a56f38@incoming.verizon.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:45:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418B53D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thank you Roger, I understood that perfectly. Thank you for your clear explanation. Hugs, Nancy MM _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 19:46:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G0kCm5012736 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:46:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G0kIHU016292; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:46:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G0jmEg075684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G0jmP5041235; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:45:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G0jh4V041129 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:45:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17815 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:17:11 -0600 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:17:09 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:46:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418B55A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO No one else has responded to this, so I'll step in and take an uninformed stab -- this is not my geographic area, but it is my time period. On Tue, 14 Mar 2006, otsisto wrote: > Some within my SCA group is pulling together costumes for early 1400s, > Teutonic Knights and Lithuanians. Thank goodness for Wikipedia: <> I had never heard of this "greatest battle." Now I gather you must be doing an event based on it? > > Under tunics > Hosen > Outer tunics > Fighting surcote/cyclas > > > De: Shouldn't there be some underwear? Since she then describes the "undertunic" as being undyed linen, it sounds like she's using that term for the underwear (which would be a white linen shirt/tunic), and "outer tunic" for the main body garment. > And I thought that a surcote and cyclas were two different types of > outer garment. "Surcote" is a general term used for just about any overlayer that goes over the main body garment. "Cyclas" is one of those screwy costume terms that's used in umpteen different ways, but it always seems to mean an overtunic/surcote. > outer garments would have been made of wool and have been of sober hues. > The fighting cotes would have been made of wool and be white or gray > depending upon your rank with a black cross again the style of cross is > determined by your rank that you have chosen.> > > De: I have understood that even in this period (1410) that there were > bright colors worn, not just sober even among the lower class. Many period dyes make strong/deep colors, and these would have been preferred. Perhaps there was something specific to the Teutonic knights that required sober hues? The black cross on white surcote seems to have been their "uniform." > > Under dresses > Girl hosen : ) > Outer dress > Aprons > Head coverings > > *Aprons? Aprons were known in Western Europe at this time, for working women; whether they were an essential part of the outfit in Eastern Europe I'll leave to someone who knows this area better. > Did every woman in 1410, in Lithuania and Samogitia wear headgear? Essentially every woman in Western Europe at this time would have been expected to wear a headcovering as a norm (exceptions being queens, young girls, brides, and even those not all the time). I wouldn't be at all surprised if headcoverings were the default for Eastern European women, and they certainly will make the overall look more "period." > dress needs to be of sober hues and doesn't have any unnecessary adornments. > They also can't be of a temptuous nature : ) > So no side less surcotes I'm afraid. Your basic tunic dress will be fine > here. Since she's calling for an underdress that sounds like a chemise, and an outerdress over that that sounds like a main body garment, a sideless surcote would have been a third layer -- and very unlikely to be worn by any but the very highest classes (e.g. royalty) in 1410 anyway, so that's not an issue. The main dress (worn over the chemise, with or without a third layer over it) would very likely have had some degree of shaping/fitting, esp. set-in-sleeves, rather than being a plain "tunic dress," but the latter would certainly be acceptable for those who are not experienced in sewing in this period. > De: Again, sober hues, Is my understanding of colors in this period wrong? Depends what you call "sober." Certainly the cheapest dyes were blues and browns, but madder red was quite accessible. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 20:09:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G18ncJ013327 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:08:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G18t7N018344; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:08:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G18MNq079274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G18JxC061047; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:08:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G18FxV060929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:08:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FJgyN-0004LA-I9; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:08:15 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:08:15 -0500 Message-ID: <20060315200815.hv2d2ykk23i8wwso@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:08:15 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:08:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418BAA7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting JAMES OGILVIE : >>> This looks like a redrawing from a painting of someone who was > imprisoned in the Tower of London, and was painted with a cat. I > copied these gloves for the Tower some years ago. I will look out the > research and post as soon as I can. > > Suzi > > The picture Suzi is thinking of is a portrait of Henry Wriothesley > 3rd Earl of Southampton and Trixie c. 1601-03. (Trixie is the cat.) > > Maybe some technically oriented person could set up a group blog for > us so we could post pictures like this. I have the picture but no > easy way to get it out to you. I don't have the time to set up a Real Web Page, but I can hang it off my server. What about the account for The Christmas Exchange pictures? Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 20:23:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G1NHvt013457 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:23:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G1NNcY022687; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:23:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G1Mxg9081678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:22:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G1Mu3Y073968; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:22:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G1MriA073828 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:22:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:22:47 -0800 Message-ID: <4418BDE9.4010501@msn.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:22:49 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Issue 230? Equestrian, et al References: <20060314190547.98697.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060314190547.98697.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2006 01:22:47.0781 (UTC) FILETIME=[2281F950:01C64898] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:23:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418BE0B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO What is issue 230? Whad' I miss? Kahlara wrote: > > It has been a busy week, but finally able to get back to the costume list. Am I the only one that did not recieve issue 230? > > Attended a class on equestrian barding this weekend, and one of the things that came up in discussion was the aside vs. astride issue. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 20:48:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G1mDpO013741 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:48:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G1mHKa029704; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:48:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G1lstm092610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:47:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G1lp2Y091927; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:47:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G1llnY091844 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:47:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BD6A936AE3 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:47:43 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:47:59 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:48:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418C3E1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thank you for responding. I have learned to take Wikipedia with a grain of salt. On one of the lists someone mentioned that he had found flaws with it as anyone can leave info on a subject. Be it w/scholarly research or not. They are doing it for Lilies War but I am not sure if it is for a war point or not. Since she then describes the "undertunic" as being undyed linen, it sounds like she's using that term for the underwear (which would be a white linen shirt/tunic), and "outer tunic" for the main body garment. De: I was thinking more in the line of groin cover type of underwear. :) Were the leg hosen sewn together by this time? "Surcote" is a general term used for just about any overlayer that goes over the main body garment. "Cyclas" is one of those screwy costume terms that's used in umpteen different ways, but it always seems to mean an overtunic/surcote. De: Ah, the clear as mud terminology. :) > outer garments would have been made of wool and have been of sober hues. Many period dyes make strong/deep colors, and these would have been preferred. Perhaps there was something specific to the Teutonic knights that required sober hues? The black cross on white surcote seems to have been their "uniform." De: I mostly was wondering about the regular male folk and not the knights. Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G1ql0m013788 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:52:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G1qrJf031091; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:52:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G1pb2X093245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:51:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G1paNq094807; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:51:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G1pZJm094788 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:51:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so259695nzo for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:51:35 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Z6FLiUg2oTnfDTNO327dzOwRGAZdOB+LHteXy8djzh6qMtlLdqDeFvJoIm5qRfbYaKGxNtVczNuIJY33klD2q5+sOfX5XJ1IY7wT6+/cMRBtbN7+9FwRTrd3Jw5hJ+QoQuVjqA1AUsYRLaN11uEj7CYi8xMZhGQN0rWl8PSrBjk= Received: by 10.64.24.20 with SMTP id 20mr2672qbx; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:51:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:51:35 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: re: [h-cost] Help with contract work fees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2G1pZJm094788 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:52:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418C4F5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >I just got word that my position as Historic Costume Designer at >Strawbery Banke had been reorganized out of existence, and I'm looking >at the 14 shifts and probably 14 girls gowns that need to be made for >this summers camp. I've heard that I might me asked to make them on a >contract basis, so here is my question. What would be a reasonable >amount to charge for making these garments, if I should be asked? >Dot Fisher I would charge by the hour regardless of the task you are assigned. This way, the Banke can continue to work you for any task they deem necessary. What to charge? Take your annual salary and divide by 2000 hrs (40hr week, 50 weeks in a year) and charge that as your hourly rate. This should work in pounds, euros & dollars. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 21:07:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G27p2q013934 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:07:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G27vAM002790; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:08:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G27Vcp095069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:07:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G27UNo006333; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:07:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G27Qdq006234 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:07:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2c0.6c7c95c (39330) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:07:18 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <2c0.6c7c95c.314a2256@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:07:18 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with contract work fees To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:08:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418C87D.00A by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/15/2006 8:52:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cinbarnes@gmail.com writes: What to charge? Take your annual salary and divide by 2000 hrs (40hr week, 50 weeks in a year) and charge that as your hourly rate. I would add the 7.65% that you will have to pay in social security taxes to that figure, at the least. And if you will now be using your own equipment, rather than theirs, well, that is worth something, too. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 21:35:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G2Z7wN014161 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:35:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G2ZDJd010382; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:35:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G2YqBL098376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:34:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G2Yl1e026251; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:34:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G2Yh2Q026169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:34:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:28017 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJiKD-0004fZ-4V for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:34:53 -0600 Message-ID: <031201c648a2$2e6439e0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2c0.6c7c95c.314a2256@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with contract work fees Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:34:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:35:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418CEE1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO An odd little rule of thumb I read that actually seems to work for SOME industries (I have experience with it specifically in computer-related stuff, as that's where I've done the most self-employed work) is to take your desired yearly income, divide that by 1000, and charge that per hour. So, if you want to make $40,000/year, charge $40/hr for contract work. This works well in a situation where you're working out of a home office, and where there's some but not tons of overhead, and where you likely won't be working 40 hours a week on a regular basis. So, it may be a completely useless rule of thumb in your situation, but if you wind up being expected to pay for a lot of your own supplies/equipment/etc, it might help to give you at least a ballpark. I'd still get out the tax forms and receipts for common recurring expenses and spend some quality time with a calculator, though. =} -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 15 22:20:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G3KAJO014594 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:20:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G3KAD2022998; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:20:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G3JitK003185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:19:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G3JgcM058064; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:19:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.161]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G3JcYf057951 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:19:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from Webshield2 (unknown [165.248.247.155]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 7BFAD3FA7 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:19:10 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by Webshield2 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1142479170221; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:19:30 -1000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:19:30 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references In-Reply-To: <20060315212046.47317.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20060315212046.47317.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:20:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4418D96E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > 1. are there any historical references for this color? I know that > dandelion flowers produce a yellow dye. I don't know about dandelions but you can get magenta and fuschia from fermented lichen dyes. > 2. no mordant implies that it would not be color fast. I've done a tiny bit of experimenting and even though I got some vibrant shades, they were _extremely_ fugitive to light. My wool and silk samples that were exposed to even indirect sunlight faded to gray within two weeks. The samples that were kept in the dark are still bright, though. > 3. are there any historical references to a magenta like color being > produced with some other dye stuff? Yes, orchil producing lichens and murex shellfish (Tyrian purple). > Or any suggestions where I might look for more information? A book or website on lichen dyes/orchil should have something. I'm away from my books but I think one of them is Craft of the Dyer, Colour from Plants and Lichens by Casselman(sp?). One website is http://www.ravensgard.org/gerekr/Orchil.html . She has a picture with color samples. --annora _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 04:17:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G9HdRt009597 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:17:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G9Hjgp023446; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:17:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G9HEgT039693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:17:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G9H4jr097649; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:17:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G9GwaA097528 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:17:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2G9GpL12716.; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:16:52 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:16:51 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:16:38 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2G9GwaA097528 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:17:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44192D39.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I believe magenta was one of the aniline dyes invented in the later 19th century and was named after a battle in Napoleon III's reign - but I assume the poster was referring to a natural colour approaching that shade. >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 15/03/2006 21:49 >>> I always thought that magenta was named after a battle in the Napoleonic wars but I could be way wrong! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 04:30:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G9U2uC013708 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:30:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2G9U8gt026837; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:30:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G9TsT2041712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:29:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G9TsHD006603; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:29:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G9TnH6006494 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:29:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2G9ThL14021.; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:29:43 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:29:43 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:29:26 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2G9TnH6006494 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:30:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44193021.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I can only think of Rembrandt's portrait of Jan Six. http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rembrandt/jan_six.jpg.html has links to 2 articles which discuss the significance of the gloves in this picture. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> zeartiste@hotmail.com 15/03/2006 12:48 >>> What is the reason that several Dutch portraits have the person wearing one glove and holding the other? Most of them are on the right hand but the one of Valois one is on the left. If nothing else, I've been introduced to the massive amounts of portraits from the references in this discussion board. > > ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 05:31:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GAVY9Q024270 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:31:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GAVefW011923; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:31:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GAUvVZ049403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:30:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GAUgi9047194; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:30:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GAUddt047157 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:30:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f553d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.61]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EDFED47FEF8 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:30:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001801c648e4$ae6907a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><005901c647b9$86c6dfa0$0401010a@michaela><20060314190739.s0hys2b1ppsss0gc@www.goldsword.com><007701c647ce$154ed200$0401010a@michaela> <20060315144423.jiyezykxccug4c8g@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:30:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:31:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44193E8C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The bows looks to me to be made of coral pearls? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic > Quoting michaela : > >>> > My first instinct was Spanish as well, due to how the hand is >>> > displayed >> (the >>> > hand is vertical and holding either a glove or a handkerchief) and >>> > those >>> > bows (Germans weren't quite as fond of bows as the Spanish were... I >> found a >>> > lovely child's portrait on bildindex where she is wearing jewellery >>> > bows >>> > even! Mind you the English are also fond of them....) but I have a >> feeling >>> > in the redrawings some features may have changed. >>> >>> OOOh, cool! Do you have a URL or an accession number for that child's >>> portrait? >> >> Poot, I was wrong, they are actually daisys: >> http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_10b.jpg > > Neat picture, though. > >> >> The discussion about it was that there was a girl with bow shaped jewls >> but >> that was actually Maria Stuart in a white gown with bows down the front >> made >> from red jewels. I got the two mixed up in my memory;) >> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Various_7.htm >> The Princess Royal, daughter of James I, VI and Anne, 1603. (National >> Maritime Museum)She's all in white with the red bows. I'm sure I've seen >> gold ones on someone though... but I can't find it... >> >> > Also neat! Those could be bows, or flowers, or butterflies, or ..... > > Susan (sorry, the biologist is creeping out .....) > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 08:07:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GD7OF6031517 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:07:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GD7Uph001359; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GD6kT7086264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:06:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GD6aHT056062; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GD67Qn055752 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:06:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.144.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.144] helo=faucet.net) by pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FJsB4-0007T5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:06:07 -0500 Message-ID: <441970F0.3030303@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:06:40 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:07:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44196312.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >>De: I have understood that even in this period (1410) that there were >>bright colors worn, not just sober even among the lower class. > > Robin Netherton wrote: > Many period dyes make strong/deep colors, and these would have been > preferred. Perhaps there was something specific to the Teutonic knights > that required sober hues? The black cross on white surcote seems to have > been their "uniform." Not my period of expertise either, but it could be that the organizer is trying for an easy way to make sure that people in the group avoid the bright modern colors that are not possible (or that are possible but very fugitive) with medieval dyes. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 08:49:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GDnH1B003419 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:49:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GDnNj9017826; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:49:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GDn46m092045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:49:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GDn259088762; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:49:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mail.areatech.com [216.106.88.186] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GDmwRe088708 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:49:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E6FF36B5A for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:48:57 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:49:15 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <441970F0.3030303@faucet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:49:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44196CE3.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I finally received a reply. She said that the sober colors come from a 1295 manuscript on the Teutonic knights attire and thought that anyone working or being around the Knights would also wear sober colors. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:22:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGM0Lx018105 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:22:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGM6Mc018079; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:22:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGK7nS018414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:20:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGJwwC030000; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:19:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2GGJs2W029854 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:19:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 85836 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2006 16:19:49 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Fyvuh/xr5lRTXHtOgGBIVaJij5Mt26rvK+jV8HNMlwfOlC0JJk2OkNNxl4HX9AAcDO7MzaqF9dCV9DNR1afgaH1ZIaenxdsyC+Jrs33t7UsmCdyvJymtHVwyKMfSwxe5ZBO3Sc+lRiHkzWjMWofAYB2PjjGhOIseRUS+19A2zPc= ; Message-ID: <20060316161949.85834.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:19:49 PST Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:19:49 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Issue 230? Equestrian, et al To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603160918.k2G9ILQh098502@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:22:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441990AE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO :-) As in h-costume Digest Vol 5, Issue 230, similar to issue 255, which I didn't get either. I know this is just a glitch in the system, as sometimes I miss one, or they come out of order, for example I may still get 255 it will just arrive after 256 (the one I'm responding to). Usually I just bear with it, but sometimes, as with 230, when there is a topic I am particularly interested in or am waiting on a response to a question, as with 255. I might miss something and end up repeating/restating the same thing someone else has already said (and probably much worse than they did) or missing out on a really great answer. Annette M h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:22:49 -0700 From: WickedFrau Subject: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Issue 230? Equestrian, et al What is issue 230? Whad' I miss? Kahlara wrote: > > It has been a busy week, but finally able to get back to the costume list. Am I the only one that did not recieve issue 230? > > Attended a class on equestrian barding this weekend, and one of the things that came up in discussion was the aside vs. astride issue. > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:44:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGiWRk021881 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:44:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGic02027967; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:44:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGiE20022745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGi9UN053941; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:44:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2ENgkgv017170 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:42:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 92257 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2006 23:42:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2006 23:42:41 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060314233351.01deb250@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:35:42 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Theatre Museum X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:44:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441995F6.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I received the following letter in reply to my e-mail to the director. I think it makes the whole situation quite clear. >Thank you for your email to the Director. > >The press coverage is misleading, because the Trustees of the V&A have >not yet made a decision. > >One option is to close the building, but others would include a >different mix of activities in the building. > >The Theatre Museum has had no success in raising the capital money for >redevelopment of its current premises (which it rents, not owns) and >the feedback from potential public and private donors is that the funds >needed to transform the Theatre Museum's building in Covent Garden >would not repay the investment given the limitations of the building. > >Given the serious limitations of the building we are looking at the >feasibility of achieving greater appreciation of the collections without >continuing with the building. > >If we had no Covent Garden building we would be looking at: > >1. having a permanent display about the collections at the main >building in South Kensington > >2. running education programmes in our new Education Centre > >3. large and smaller scale exhibitions at the main museum building > >4. more touring exhibitions (in the UK and abroad) > >5. more partnerships with major theatre organisations in the UK > >6. Much greater investment in digitising the collection and providing >web access and education material. Visits to the Theatre Museum website >have been growing rapidly. > >It is worth remembering that the displays at Covent Garden represent a >very tiny fraction of the collections. The core study collection moved >in 2005 to Blythe House (our storage and research centre in west london) >where it was united with the reserve collection - This move has been >very successful and the study room there provides much better access. > >Interestingly, most of the emails we have had so far are mainly >concerned about the preservation of the archives and we are also very >concerned to increase access (eg. through extended opening hours at >Blythe House and greater web access to the collections). > > > >Ian Blatchford >Deputy Director > > >Suzi > >---------------------------------------------------------------- > >Anna Piaggi Fashion-ology >Sponsored by Topshop >2 Feb ? 23 April 2006 at V&A South Kensington >Book now on 0870 906 3883 or www.vam.ac.uk > >Unleashing Britain: 10 Years that Shaped the Nation 1955-1964 >30 November 2005 ? 30 June 2007 at V&A Theatre Museum >Admission free > >V&A Museum of Childhood temporarily closed for exciting redevelopment >Reopening autumn 2006. See the V&A website for details > >Keep in touch ? visit www.vam.ac.uk and sign up for our regular e-newsletter > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >The information contained in this message is confidential and intended only >for the individual named above. If you are not the intended >recipient, or responsible for delivering it to the intended >recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, >distribution, copying, or disclosure of this information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this >communication in error, please notify us by telephone on 020 7942 >2000. This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider >MailControl - www.blackspider.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:45:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGjSZD022037 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:45:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGjZt6016099; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:45:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGjEhs022901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:45:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGjD7A055013; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:45:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52103.mail.yahoo.com (web52103.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.106]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2F1UdqH016991 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:30:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 26912 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2006 01:30:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BB1D0bBsGAarYbo65b1hMS40GE9CV1qepnKPgyVjVVFGJFPFWw6NQRCz59CLvCh1swdgeRjKe7nChxjTn+KYLln57xcte7hYrCcKyevinUbnRuCsSFjTTUpVxMHpxaZduGHQYByb+zv+Aqdzmpc/TygdUwZvgScKbdNw9aYzWRY= ; Message-ID: <20060315013032.26910.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:30:32 EST Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:30:32 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603142343.k2ENhZr8018116@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Glove pic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:45:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419962F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > I keep thinking I've seen this glove before, but I > have seen similar > ones in the portrait of Lady Mary Neville and her > Son Gregory > Fiennes, 10th Baron Dacre (1559) I had looked at this one too, but couldn't get a close enough look at it, till I tripped on this site: http://www.employees.org/~cathy/gloves_body.html LINEN gloves?!? Cool!! If I only had the time to construct a pair, I could let the intended wearer loose on the gauntlets - she is an avid blackwork broiderer. also look at figure 5 on this page, that is a darned close match if you rotate the hand to vertical. > Elizabeth Cornwallis, Lady Kytson (1573) > them....) but I have a feeling > in the redrawings some features may have changed. Looking at your examples and those above, I think this could be a composite drawing of various elements. Excellent sources, though. I think this is why this drawing rang bells - it's a little of everything. > It's very easy to show the glove style in German > dress, very easy indeed. This would be good, since it is being paired with the Nuremburg kirtle and loose gown in PoF. :-) > That is very sheek! :-) Thanks. I liked them the moment I saw that drawing. :-)I was originally going to do goldworked gauntlets, but the more I took into account the style of the intended wearer, I felt this was more her pace. > I would recomend you to use silk ribbon of the kind > used for ribbon work, That is exactly what I plan on using. I purchased some white vintage kid gloves and will tack on the wrist decoration with russet and olive ribbons. I currently have it in a garment weight leather, but....it's coming off rather heavy looking and totally overpowering the delicacy of the kid and the silk ribbons. I have also lined the leather with an orange/red shot silk to make the slashes pop. It looks good, but again, I need to lighten the leather up. I have some paper thin sueded leather in white that might work. I'm just reluctant to cut into it as it had other plans to be corset binding. I'll see what I can come up with. I wonder if I could just do it with some white taffeta and the silk ribbons instead? That would match the sheen of the kid and the delicacy of the decoration. hmmmm....Must go rummaging for scraps! Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:46:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGk3lP022182 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGk9DR014343; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGjqHI023065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:45:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGjmT6055634; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:45:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2F4niDF068272 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:49:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1FJNx41o9v-0001zx; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:49:39 -0500 Message-ID: <014701c647eb$e1557a80$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603140017.k2E0HCKj009095@net.indra.com> <005601c64776$fb16db50$eaff143f@Wndyc> Subject: Re: [h-cost] starching Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:49:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44199651.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My mom was visiting me recently and showed me some tricks for starching fancy doilies that might help. She said use Stayflo liquid starch, blue bottle. Make sure to cut the starch in half with water. Soak the fabric or doilies in the solution. I pinned the doilies to a foam core board with T-pins. This stretched it out really nice. For up and down ruffles, stuff with wax paper. Let it dry for 24 hours. You will be amazed at how the shape is in the fabric/doilies. One of the doilies that had a lot of fancy ruffles is still standing perfectly after three months. I can pick it up and shake the dust off it, and it keeps its shape. And it still looks so delicate. Its worth a try! BTW, the Stayflo comes out of the bottle blue, but when the starch dries it is clear. She said that this is how her mother starched doilies. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:46:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGkOwc022250 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGkVIn017729; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGk9MI023166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:46:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGk8Po056061; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:46:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2F6r4oD058141 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:53:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 38958 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2006 06:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2006 06:52:59 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060315065053.01d82ec8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:53:05 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> <000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Update on Theatre Museum X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44199667.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I received the following from the Deputy Director of the V and A regarding the Theatre Museum. "Thank you for your email to the Director. The press coverage is misleading, because the Trustees of the V&A have not yet made a decision. One option is to close the building, but others would include a different mix of activities in the building. The Theatre Museum has had no success in raising the capital money for redevelopment of its current premises (which it rents, not owns) and the feedback from potential public and private donors is that the funds needed to transform the Theatre Museum's building in Covent Garden would not repay the investment given the limitations of the building. Given the serious limitations of the building we are looking at the feasibility of achieving greater appreciation of the collections without continuing with the building. If we had no Covent Garden building we would be looking at: 1. having a permanent display about the collections at the main building in South Kensington 2. running education programmes in our new Education Centre 3. large and smaller scale exhibitions at the main museum building 4. more touring exhibitions (in the UK and abroad) 5. more partnerships with major theatre organisations in the UK 6. Much greater investment in digitising the collection and providing web access and education material. Visits to the Theatre Museum website have been growing rapidly. It is worth remembering that the displays at Covent Garden represent a very tiny fraction of the collections. The core study collection moved in 2005 to Blythe House (our storage and research centre in west london) where it was united with the reserve collection - This move has been very successful and the study room there provides much better access. Interestingly, most of the emails we have had so far are mainly concerned about the preservation of the archives and we are also very concerned to increase access (eg. through extended opening hours at Blythe House and greater web access to the collections). Ian Blatchford Deputy Director" Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:46:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGkmBe022345 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGktvt028986; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGkbUE023286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGkasj056612; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FDwSgj046336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:58:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:26279 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJWWF-0001E6-H4 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:58:32 -0600 Message-ID: <025e01c64838$891e9890$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><000c01c647bb$2ff687a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><6.2.3.4.0.20060314234047.01e01eb0@127.0.0.1><6.2.3.4.0.20060315023015.01d6afa0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:58:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:46:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419967F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO There's a larger image here: http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HenryWriothesley.jpg -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:47:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGlc4t022522 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:47:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGli8q017459; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:47:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGlCQD023409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:47:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGl69q057203; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:47:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FF9VxA002659 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:09:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@NETSCAPE.COM) Received: from dm35.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3824089F for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:09:31 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060315070930.FCFF7D63@resin02.mta.everyone.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:09:30 -0800 (PST) From: " Lalah" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nREGC4qxKBJrAEAAAAB,2ca2098d78ed436d7822156d24751862 X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.117.9] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:47:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441996B0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO And a handsome tuxedo cat it is too! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- dannw@mn.rr.com wrote: From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg To: Historical Costume Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:38:00 -0600 Ah ha, Suzi, you've got it! It is Henry Wriothesley, the third Earl of Southampton. You can find his portrait in the portrait section of the http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/ page or I think this will take you directly there: http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/htm/gallery2/paintings/earlofsoton.htm An interesting piece of trivia about this portrait...it is supposedly the first English portrait painted with a cat in it. Cheers, Danielle At 05:42 PM 3/14/2006, you wrote: >At 23:01 14/03/2006, you wrote: >>That is very sheek! :-) >>What would you use for the small bows? >>I would recomend you to use silk ribbon of the kind used for ribbon >>work, its so soft and delicate and would make very nice bows. >> >>Bjarne >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" >>To: "Historical Costume List" >>Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:09 PM >>Subject: [h-cost] Glove pic >> >> >>>Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I >>>was talking about: >>> >>>http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg >>> >>>Look familiar to anyone? > > >This looks like a redrawing from a painting of someone who was >imprisoned in the Tower of London, and was painted with a cat. I >copied these gloves for the Tower some years ago. I will look out >the research and post as soon as I can. > >Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:47:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGldHK022528 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:47:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGlkY8004014; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:47:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGknLO023328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:46:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGkm9w056858; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:46:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2FEvLME092473 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 1412 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2006 06:57:21 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 1405, pid: 1406, t: 1.7730s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2006 06:57:19 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315065634.022ab7e0@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:57:07 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] finished belt pouch In-Reply-To: <000501c6483c$4e0dc240$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000501c6483c$4e0dc240$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:47:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441996B2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 06:25 AM 3/15/2006, you wrote: >Hi, >With permission of the commisioner, i have posted pics of the >finished medieval belt pouch with lion rampants at: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beltpouch.htm >Bjarne Nice job, as usual, Bjarne. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:48:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGmCuX022644 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:48:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGmJOt029624; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:48:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGlrRX023653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:47:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGlq2q058159; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:47:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FJeQ9N061445 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:40:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.222.9d8e38f (17079) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:40:11 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <222.9d8e38f.3149c798@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:40:08 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: self employment tax question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:48:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441996D3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/15/2006 2:29:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, n.mm@gte.net writes: May I ask where the 15% increase comes in? The 7.65% Social Security/Medicare employee portion has already been withheld from her paycheck, so that will not make a difference in her net pay. You are correct; however, it can be different when someone else withholds it and when YOU have to make the payments quarterly. One has to be sure to have that money in the bank when those quarterly payments come due. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:50:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGopXZ023085 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:50:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGowCI030824; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:51:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGogWv024349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:50:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGoboT061147; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:50:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rocky.itasca.net (exim@polly.itasca.net [12.157.198.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2FM1uHX095529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:02:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pixel@itasca.net) Received: from pixel (helo=localhost) by itasca.net with local-esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJe3e-0001UI-6V for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:01:30 -0600 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:01:30 -0600 (CST) From: Cat Dancer X-X-Sender: pixel@rocky.itasca.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references In-Reply-To: <20060315212046.47317.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20060315212046.47317.qmail@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Itasca-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: pixel@itasca.net X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:51:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44199772.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Wed, 15 Mar 2006, Kahlara wrote: > In reference roughly to 12th - 14th centuries. I have been eyeing a lovely piece of magenta wool. My herbal book says this color can be attained using dandelion - the whole plant with no mordant. > > 1. are there any historical references for this color? I know that dandelion flowers produce a yellow dye. > > 2. no mordant implies that it would not be color fast. > > 3. are there any historical references to a magenta like color being produced with some other dye stuff? > > Or any suggestions where I might look for more information? > > > Annette M (the fuschia/magenta/hot pink range is my favorite color for clothing!) Your herbal book is perpetuating a fallacy. We were discussing this on the natural dyes list (or the SCA natural dyes list, I don't remember which) and the general consensus from a number of people who've tried it was that there's no way to get magenta from dandelions. You can get lovely pinks and reds from brazilwood, from kermes/cochineal, from madder root if you're careful (if you overcook it, it turns brown/orange), from orchil, and from lady's bedstraw root. But you can't, as far as any of the more experienced dyers could tell, get reds from dandelion root. OTOH, it apparently can be roasted and used as a coffee substitute. I've gotten magenta on wool with cochineal, but I'm not sure how fast it is, or whether it was a modern mordant or not--my sample cards are at home, of course. I know we got a dark magenta color on white Icelandic fleece by leaving it in the dyebath for a very long time, but lighter colors I think were mordanted. I'll look when I get a chance. Pixel/Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:54:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGsrl4023711 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:54:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGt0tD032513; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGsjdu025263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:54:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGsieP065797; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:54:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G3fIwp073237 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DlnBZrAWQ1VssBDOF6NqwjWq/n/0/Rrv8p8PlRWPpXKVtK0is8x/+ZE3Wvm1nU/O; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.101.149.43] (helo=[10.0.1.4]) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FJjMU-0001gb-DB for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:41:18 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <4418AE22.2050304@hotpop.com> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20060315084145.02a56f38@incoming.verizon.net> <4418AE22.2050304@hotpop.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <544B57CE-3A31-409E-90BD-422FD049657D@earthlink.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: self employment tax question Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:41:19 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478d165aa9320335d718bc09e609bddd59ea5ff8b5456d58081350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.101.149.43 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44199864.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Some general principles to keep in mind on this. The organization is trying to cut costs and increase flexibility. (This is a truism: companies are always trying to cut costs and increase flexibility.) When you're calculating how much to ask for, add up _all_ the ways in which the organization was spending money on your position: not simply salary and social-security payments, but any benefits you received (large or small), plus the clerical work that supported your employment, the upkeep on any equipment used, and so forth. For example, a lot of people are mentioning the self-employment tax, but as an independent contractor you're also going to be spending _time_ doing extra paperwork (and quite likely, extra research) to deal with legal and tax things you didn't have to worry about as an employee. So do the calculation from the other side, too: calculate what it will "cost" you (in time or money) to cover all the benefits, overhead, upkeep, and paperwork that you didn't have to deal with as an employee. No matter _what_ they pay you as a contractor's fee, they've already "won" in terms of flexibility -- i.e., they can decide at a moment's notice not to give you any more work. They can pay for exactly and only the work they decide they want without having to keep you on payroll when things are slow. And that means it's not at all unreasonable to expect them to pay for that flexibility in cash. So don't feel you're being greedy by setting a high price on your time. In fact, try not to spend much time comparing what you're asking for as a contractor with what you were receiving as a salary: it's apples and oranges. This, of course, assumes that they see what you're providing as a specialized skill, rather than figuring they can either get someone to do piecework at sweatshop wages or pull the Tom Sawyer trick and convince someone to do it "for fun". Heather -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:55:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGtKZx023794 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGtRbv022350; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGtBbV025384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:55:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGtAfm066253; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:55:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G3l7tQ077414 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:47:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=hbGGFgsNklX1Y0S6fbwR3xkK7G5XLVb5lTeu6w8VvJp04rgYY5UcRZ2VP3XMBW9n; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.101.149.43] (helo=[10.0.1.4]) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FJjS6-0006KS-W2 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:47:07 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:47:08 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478d165aa9320335d71413b5bdbd9e3aabdffcd492f6805252b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.101.149.43 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419987F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Mar 15, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >> In latin: (for those who don't trust translations :-) >> Femoralia hi qui in via diriguntur de vestario >> accipiant, quae revertentes lota ibi restituant. Et >> cucullae et tunicae sint aliquanto a solio quas habent >> modice meliores; quas exeuntes in via accipiant de >> vestario et revertentes restituant. >> >> And in English: >> Brothers going on a journey should get underclothing >> from the wardrobe. On their return they are to wash it >> and give it back. Their cowls and tunics, too, ought >> to be somewhat better than those they ordinarily wear. >> Let them get these from the wardrobe before departing, >> and on returning put them back. > > Wow! And I thought "Wear clean underwear without holes in case you > get in a > car crash and have to go to the hospital" was a NEW sensibility! There's an even better example in Walter Map's "De Nugis Curialium" where he tells a story of a monk whose order disdained underpants as being too luxurious, so that when he took a tumble in the street he exposed his ... parts for all and sundry to see. Walter gives the moral of the story as something roughly equivalent to "sometimes discretion is the better part of asceticism". Heather -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:55:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGtjFm023849 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGtqsR016350; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGtYnP025514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:55:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGtXwN066725; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:55:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G5mMbF059957 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:48:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060316054815.IDVZ6234.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:48:15 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.178.63]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060316054815.XCJW14226.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:48:15 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.385 [268.2.4/282]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:48:16 +1300 Message-ID: <005001c648bd$388f1dc0$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><005901c647b9$86c6dfa0$0401010a@michaela><20060314190739.s0hys2b1ppsss0gc@www.goldsword.com><007701c647ce$154ed200$0401010a@michaela> <20060315144423.jiyezykxccug4c8g@www.goldsword.com> Subject: bows and flowers Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:48:11 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44199898.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > Poot, I was wrong, they are actually daisys: > > http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_10b.jpg > > Neat picture, though. I love flowers:) > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Various_7.htm > > The Princess Royal, daughter of James I, VI and Anne, 1603. (National > > Maritime Museum)She's all in white with the red bows. I'm sure I've seen > > gold ones on someone though... but I can't find it... > Also neat! Those could be bows, or flowers, or butterflies, or ..... Atcually I have seen the book this was scanned from (I recongise a lot of the pictures shown on the site from a couple of books I've got my paws on) and they were definitely not butterflies;) The centre is too button like. I don't think they are flowers either, seeing as here are four loops and flowers tend towards prime numbers for petals. Given the four lobed bows on the glove portrait I'd be more inclined to see these as bows. I'm not sure how pbvious it is in the online image, but in my copy you can see they alternating centres are quite different. The pearls are just pearls with no obvious mountings and the "balck" are set in gold, like the red jewels are in the lobes. It also looks like there are pearls going up the centre, graduating in size from large to small. She has a pearl girdle with red and "black" stones. The skirt has a line down centre front that could be a crease or a join. I think the top edge of her bodice is just at the tops of the jewels, and there is a wide expanse of cmock I think... there looks like faint red lines of embroidery micahela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 15/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 11:56:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGu3nL023898 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:56:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GGuAju019668; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:56:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGti0f025550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:55:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GGthJ1066918; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:55:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2G5tiZJ065281 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:55:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19651 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:27:14 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 00:27:13 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:56:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441998AA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Wed, 15 Mar 2006, otsisto wrote: > I have learned to take Wikipedia with a grain of salt. On one of the > lists someone mentioned that he had found flaws with it as anyone can > leave info on a subject. Be it w/scholarly research or not. Oh, of course, it's not a reliable source for formal research, as it is constantly mutable and relies on the collective wisdom of its users. But very good for quick overviews of things like historical events, scientific principles, natural history, lots of other stuff. In this case, it answered the question "what did the Teutonic Knights and the Lithuanians have to do with each other in 1410?" sufficiently for my purposes, which was "They had a battle." Whether it was the greatest battle of the middle ages -- well, that's where the opinion creeps in, and I don't put much stock into that assessment. > Since she then describes the "undertunic" as being undyed linen, it > sounds like she's using that term for the underwear (which would be a > white linen shirt/tunic), and "outer tunic" for the main body garment. > > De: I was thinking more in the line of groin cover type of underwear. > :) >From what I know of SCA-level re-enactment, costume guidelines like this are generally going to leave unseen underwear as a personal choice, and 90% of the guys are going to wear modern boxers or briefs anyway, depending on their preference. (Um, no, I haven't actually done research to support that 90%...) Now, for strict re-enactment, the costume guidelines are more likely to want to specify the nature of the braies or other underthings worn at the particular time at issue, and the participants are going to want to have it right even if no one ever knows. > Were the leg hosen sewn together by this time? No idea what was happening in Eastern Europe; I don't even know exactly when they started getting sewn together in the West. There are others on this list who have made a study of these details. But my impression is that there's no need to sew together your leg hosen unless you're wearing a tunic short enough to show your crotch, and in 1410 that's dependent on class, age, and region. Fashionable young men in Paris are not representative of Teutonic knights or Lithuanian anythings. > > > outer garments would have been made of wool and have been of sober hues. > Many period dyes make strong/deep colors, and these would have been > preferred. Perhaps there was something specific to the Teutonic knights > that required sober hues? The black cross on white surcote seems to have > been their "uniform." > > De: I mostly was wondering about the regular male folk and not the > knights. And I'm wondering what "sober" means. ;-) > been expected to wear a headcovering as a norm (exceptions being > queens, young girls, brides, and even those not all the time). I > wouldn't be at all surprised if headcoverings were the default for > Eastern European women, and they certainly will make the overall look > more "period." > > De: "Paganism" was still around in Lithuania and Samogitia so I do not > think that covering the head was for religious reasons but I could see > it as a scalp protector from the sun. I wouldn't think religious reasons are the prime mover in any case. Headcoverings have been the norm for both men and women in Europe for most of the Middle Ages and a good chunk beyond. There are many reasons for it, and sun protection is just one. Bear in mind that women might have visible hair in 1410, but it is generally *dressed* -- e.g. braided and/or put up, with or without veil or ornament -- not hanging loose. If you are outside, you want a covering against sun and also dirt. > De: I had thought that it was 3 layers. Chemise and a support under > dress and then the form fitting dress. Is this not the standard? Number of layers and degree of fitting varies by class, climate, and circumstances (e.g. formal or informal). The basic standard is chemise (undyed linen) plus main body garment (usually of wool) -- call it an underdress or a day-dress or cote or cotte or kirtle or whatever your preferred expert likes (but don't call it a "cotehardie" if you're around me, please). This dress, in 1410, is typically fitted for middle-class and upper-class women, probably not very fitted for the lowest classes (unless you're modeling for the Limbourg Brothers). By this period, it seems it is probably lined more often than not, even for those of modest means. Higher class and/or cooler weather and/or more formal circumstances, add a layer or more. The overgown may be fitted (as in the "cotehardie" or fitted overdress) or loose (as in the houppelande) or any of several variations/combinations on these. Next over that might be a mantle or cloak, again with variations depending on class etc. All of this is generally true for most of Europe in 1410, and very likely for Lithuania, or possibly there are regional variations I don't know about. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 12:21:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GHLa8m025948 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:21:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GHLgnf011991; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:21:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GHL7TZ031180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:21:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GHKsMO094750; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:20:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GHKnsm094563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:20:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FJw9M-00043B-Jw; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:20:36 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:20:36 -0500 Message-ID: <20060316122036.92a5gmvd02gcc408@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:20:36 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: bows and flowers Re: [h-cost] Glove pic References: <20060314200930.87678.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com><005901c647b9$86c6dfa0$0401010a@michaela><20060314190739.s0hys2b1ppsss0gc@www.goldsword.com><007701c647ce$154ed200$0401010a@michaela> <20060315144423.jiyezykxccug4c8g@www.goldsword.com> <005001c648bd$388f1dc0$0401010a@michaela> In-Reply-To: <005001c648bd$388f1dc0$0401010a@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:21:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44199EA6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting michaela : > Jerusha said >> Also neat! Those could be bows, or flowers, or butterflies, or ..... > Atcually I have seen the book this was scanned from (I recongise a lot of > the pictures shown on the site from a couple of books I've got my paws on) > and they were definitely not butterflies;) The centre is too button like. I > don't think they are flowers either, seeing as here are four loops and > flowers tend towards prime numbers for petals. Given the four lobed bows on > the glove portrait I'd be more inclined to see these as bows. botanist alert! While monocots have floral parts in 3s or multiples thereof (think lilies -- 6 parts), Dicots have floral parts in 4s or 5s typically (or multiples thereof. Families that I can think of at the moment that are mostly 4-parted flowers include the Mustard Family, the Olive family, The Hamamelids (Witch Hazel), the Cornaceae (Dogwoods), the Evening Primroses, and the Plantains. Nature's never exact -- my Monocot study plants have Asian members with 5 petals, or 7, or 11 ... botanist mode off > > I'm not sure how pbvious it is in the online image, but in my copy you can > see they alternating centres are quite different. The pearls are just pearls > with no obvious mountings and the "balck" are set in gold, like the red > jewels are in the lobes. I wasn't saying that they weren't bows, just the overall shape *could* lend itself to other things as well -- like butterflies, flowers, etc. Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 13:56:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GIucKr030543 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:56:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GIuirR021337; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:56:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GItKqW050711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GIsrEd096269; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:54:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GIskHk096108 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:54:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so427806nzo for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:54:45 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=bmj+h7RcIptVhfGYywvOWJiHhodiiIIhwEAKpJRMYorHkL++0cRrK8YTpwvalovngX+/osX4wTWHEEtKcPHpzfOwVWVHcVN0IXkVnzwSx0d1o5pFtyGXCrWxAcecMbdwdo2ve5GTlMdVKEbfkFOHq23BBUUyeJSWyEMtUKK69nM= Received: by 10.64.24.20 with SMTP id 20mr82515qbx; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:54:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:54:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:54:45 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: re: [h-cost] period dye color references MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2GIskHk096108 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:56:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419B4EC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >In reference roughly to 12th - 14th centuries. I have been eyeing a lovely piece of >magenta wool. My herbal book says this color can be attained using dandelion - >the whole plant with no mordant. > 1. are there any historical references for this color? I know that dandelion flowers produce a yellow dye. >2. no mordant implies that it would not be color fast. > 3. are there any historical references to a magenta like color being produced with some other dye stuff? >Or any suggestions where I might look for more information? On natural dyestuffs see "The Art & Craft of Natural Dyeing" Jim Liles. He's a Rev War re-enactor & teaches/taught Chem at some southern University (U of Tenn?). You wont find history here, but you will find good process & technique. His photo on the back book cover has him in a snappy magenta (called Turkey Red) tunic. Your perception is most likely correct. I'd go with a mordant, too. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 14:36:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GJa6B2001226 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:36:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GJaD4v006862; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:36:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GJZWKk058225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:35:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GJZPlj038731; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:35:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp106.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp106.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.225.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2GJZKWP038542 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:35:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 46337 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 19:35:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=FEcgTRDT9BQdnpRPmblDx+HvaKW4c2MkvLJIIVGthP1vQK/wkuvqZLTmJWRa0NR/ngsEYhyr+OxfG0rp2LQc5JZXgZCbYAkNlMYJankZSGabuYOqjIPRkD5nQQmB7nXg83klaXfhz1FaIkl6Yq2SZJpY/ADq38unhLnh4F1914w= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?70.27.127.33?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.33 with plain) by smtp106.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 19:35:14 -0000 Message-ID: <4419BDFD.2060201@rogers.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:35:25 -0500 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:36:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419BE2D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Greetings-- > >>> >> outer garments would have been made of wool and have been of sober hues. >>> >> Many period dyes make strong/deep colors, and these would have been >> preferred. Perhaps there was something specific to the Teutonic knights >> that required sober hues? The black cross on white surcote seems to have >> been their "uniform." >> >> De: I mostly was wondering about the regular male folk and not the >> knights. >> > > And I'm wondering what "sober" means. ;-) The missing link here may be that the Teutonic Knights, like the Templars and the Hospitallers, were a crusading Order--a religious Order. The "uniform" mentioned earlier on was in fact part of the habit of the Knights who were part of the Order. There were also priests who were members of the Order, and later, "serving brothers". According to this site - http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/teutonic.htm - the main difference between the dress of the knights and the serving brothers was that the knights wore a blue mantle and the serving brothers a grey one, and the serving brothers used a three-armed cross. So the whole "sober colour" thing may be indicative of the fact that these are fighting religious under holy vows with a set habit (although it's known that the knights in other similar orders didn't wear the habit on all occasions, although they were supposed to do so). Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 14:43:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GJhgjJ001552 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:43:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GJhnji010002; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:43:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GJh73E059410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:43:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GJh4ha046318; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:43:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GJgwaJ046204 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:43:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so437508nzo for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:42:56 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=cEvoKdc1auykBR5cQn3WwXqQchPYFATM0UZ21iwZJiVi60DVb354luTIc78e1GVXhHMdrQECMuXAjo4/a5pWyHbamNgA6KPqU0Fpt2VtcTYQ9sOdoTk7ejB+ywgN9iBpW5BEJx6Cee4uXdIe3IQEVFv7l01J97U10/HJ/AlRqp0= Received: by 10.64.96.6 with SMTP id t6mr17599qbb; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:42:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:42:56 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2GJgwaJ046204 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:43:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419BFF5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ladies & Gents, A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c menswear. Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. Thanks for the help, --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 14:54:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GJsYqF002054 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:54:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GJse3p014787; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:54:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GJsNRT061399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:54:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GJsJp2057689; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:54:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xrelay06.mail2web.com (xrelay06.mail2web.com [168.144.1.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GJs2LN057407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:54:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gwen@moonsandstars.com) Received: from [168.144.251.140] (helo=M2W035.mail2web.com) by xrelay06.mail2web.com with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1FJyXk-0008K6-20 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:53:57 -0500 Message-ID: <380-220063416195355944@M2W035.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 207.137.21.236 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ From: "gwen@moonsandstars.com" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:53:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2GJs2LN057407 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] clothing from the crusades X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:54:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419C280.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My husband is early period, around 1196-1220 time frame. I'm looking for period references for clothing for a middle class, or nobility (other than monarchs) from that era. While I have found MANY references to the armor and surcoats they wore, I haven't found a lot of references to everyday clothing. Can someone point me in the right direction for that time period? Gwenhwyfar -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:17:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKHTmd003997 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:17:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKHZ8q024854; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:17:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKGwZH065173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:16:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKGqLP080312; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:16:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKGiBZ080180 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:16:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=PAaKNnID/tXZzesxAvzVxMrv9BIOG7WZhk1IDcolqyF6/S6tY/WVH2awn0CLt+DM; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.122.48] (helo=boris) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FJytn-0002bH-Tp for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:16:44 -0500 Message-ID: <039401c64936$91c84280$0300a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:16:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd489863d40873d92d928c35ef7c32ad3b8987b2572753744e27350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.122.48 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:17:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419C7DF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > Ladies & Gents, > A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in > Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & > the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing > stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be > seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the > wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped > vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c > menswear. > Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. > Thanks for the help, > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com Most of the doublets I've seen seem to be a sort of cross between the two: the closure laps, but it's not quite the fully developed vent of the later coats. It's pretty hard to explain, but easy to do and seems to work well. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:36:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKa5er004818 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:36:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKaBF9000507; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:36:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKZqUA067829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:35:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKZlq7098353; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:35:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKZfM0098197 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:35:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f553d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.61]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 80003A50082 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:35:39 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c64939$3d349ea0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:36:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:36:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419CC3B.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Cynthia, Abraham Bossé the fashion illustrator has made a print of La Gallerie du Pallais showing ready made cuffs and collars exhibitted in a gallanterie shop. The Cuffs are open, and i believe they were pinned in place. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:42 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure > Ladies & Gents, > A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in > Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & > the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing > stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be > seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the > wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped > vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c > menswear. > Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. > Thanks for the help, > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:39:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKdLNW004941 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:39:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKdRoP001788; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:39:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKd6M2068462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:39:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKd6i5001893; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:39:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKd2P8001732 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:39:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.be.39b429a1 (16633) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:38:54 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:38:54 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] "Great Coat" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:39:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419CCFF.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear List, I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the context that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that "coat" could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? Thanks. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:41:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKfrlc005032 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:41:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKfwe4002889; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:42:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKfaf5068771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:41:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKfZ3R004157; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:41:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKfVFt004083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:41:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:29611 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJzHt-0003Nw-V7 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:41:39 -0600 Message-ID: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:41:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:42:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419CD96.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2GKfrlc005032 Status: RO Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House (Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suuuuuuuuuure?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:42:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKgDL0005050 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:42:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKgKwl002420; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:42:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKg516068861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:42:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKg3mj004602; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:42:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rocky.itasca.net (exim@polly.itasca.net [12.157.198.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKfvrj004448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:42:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pixel@itasca.net) Received: from pixel (helo=localhost) by itasca.net with local-esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FJzFZ-0003ML-Ay for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:39:13 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:39:13 -0600 (CST) From: Cat Dancer X-X-Sender: pixel@rocky.itasca.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] clothing from the crusades In-Reply-To: <380-220063416195355944@M2W035.mail2web.com> Message-ID: References: <380-220063416195355944@M2W035.mail2web.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Itasca-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: pixel@itasca.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:42:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419CDAC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, gwen@moonsandstars.com wrote: > My husband is early period, around 1196-1220 time frame. I'm looking for > period references for clothing for a middle class, or nobility (other than > monarchs) from that era. While I have found MANY references to the armor > and surcoats they wore, I haven't found a lot of references to everyday > clothing. Can someone point me in the right direction for that time period? > > Gwenhwyfar You're going to encourage us to get that website up yet. ;-) To preface, my SO and I do early 13th c. English (in the SCA, but we're authenticity nuts). A middle-class man would wear braies, hose, a shirt, a belted tunic/cotte, some variety of leather turnshoe, and most probably a linen coif on his head. A nobleman would wear the same, except not necessarily the coif, and he might also wear another layer over his cotte. One of the things that distinguishes a nobleman in the early 13th c. is the length of his skirts--a man who works for a living, whether he be free or serf, wears a short cotte that may or may not be slit at the crotch. It's usually about knee-length when belted up. A nobleman's cotte is long, about ankle length, and slit to the crotch (ostensibly for riding). The sherte and braies are linen, the cotte is usually wool. From my research, a nobleman's cotte would also be lined with either linen or silk. The hose are also usually wool. [A moment of pedantry: "Early period" usually refers to Migration Age, what used to be called the Dark Ages. 1200 is considered (roughly) to be the end of the Romanesque era and the beginning of early Gothic at least as far as art history types are concerned.] Marc Carlson's website, to which I do not have the URL handy, has useful info on actual garments. Heather Rose Jones has an excellent article on the St. Louis shirt, which is as far as we know a 13th c. man's shirt: http://www.heatherrosejones.com/stlouisshirt/index.html There's www.thirteenthcentury.com for info on hose and braies. Nudge me privately and I'll see about getting the most recent info packet into an electronic form and possibly up where people can actually see it. Margaret (for whom it is 1205 until Saturday) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:43:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKh0UM005086 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:43:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKh7BJ032468; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:43:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKgm4e069030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:42:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKgkjl005431; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:42:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKgg5h005321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:42:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:29612 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FJzJ2-0003Sx-VP for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:42:49 -0600 Message-ID: <03ab01c6493a$2bebead0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:42:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] list wonky X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:43:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419CDDB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2GKh0UM005086 Status: RO By the way, I've noticed a lot of my posts coming through waaaay out of order--apologies to anyone who's gotten confused by the seeming non-sequitors! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:49:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKnc7n005357 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKnjuH006189; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKnJOW069986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:49:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKnHcZ011596; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:49:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu (mail.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKnC7o011486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:49:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldh@ece.gatech.edu) Received: from localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKnCET001227 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.ece.gatech.edu ([199.77.227.200]) by localhost (k4-3.ece.gatech.edu [199.77.227.203]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 06697-05 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.95] (adsl-065-012-177-048.sip.asm.bellsouth.net [65.12.177.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.ece.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKn82O001206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4419CF51.7030206@ece.gatech.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:21 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.2 (Windows/20040707) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at ece.gatech.edu Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:49:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419CF69.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: >Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > > >"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) >ISBN: ? > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:54:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKsoNA005592 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:54:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKsuro008730; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:54:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKsLjJ070889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:54:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKsKrv016566; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:54:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKsFvQ016444 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:54:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f553d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.61]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 94BD3FAC06C for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:54:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001001c6493b$d80ac380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c64939$3d349ea0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:54:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:55:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D0A1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Brilliant notice of mine. Sorry, i thoaght it was the cuffs you were asking about, not the sleaves............... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure > Hi Cynthia, > Abraham Bossé the fashion illustrator has made a print of La Gallerie du > Pallais showing ready made cuffs and collars exhibitted in a gallanterie > shop. The Cuffs are open, and i believe they were pinned in place. > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cin" > To: "h-cost" > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:42 PM > Subject: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure > > >> Ladies & Gents, >> A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in >> Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & >> the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing >> stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be >> seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the >> wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped >> vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c >> menswear. >> Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. >> Thanks for the help, >> --cin >> Cynthia Barnes >> CinBarnes@gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:57:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKvEW6005730 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:57:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKvLqD010101; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:57:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKuiCv071358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:56:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKuhGE019068; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:56:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKuexq019001 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:56:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f553d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.61]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E4C6A50020 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:56:39 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c6493c$2f130980$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:57:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:57:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D131.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Ann Was, Greatcoat is just a term of a winter used garment, worn outside of the jacket. It could be cut just like a jacket, but would be a little bigger, so that the jacket could be inside it. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] "Great Coat" > Dear List, > I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the > term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the > context > that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that > "coat" > could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? > > Thanks. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 15:58:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKwiot005801 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:58:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GKwoMa013537; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:58:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKvDeC071421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:57:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKvC7M019527; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:57:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GKv8we019344 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:57:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.22a.83fb2f1 (58677) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:56:59 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <22a.83fb2f1.314b2b1a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:56:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:58:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D18A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2006 3:39:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, AnnBWass@aol.com writes: Dear List, I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the context that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that "coat" could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? ******************************** Maybe she just thinks her coat is...great. "That's a great coat!" I know....I'm no help at all.... Perhaps it just means the outer most coat, or a long coat....whether it has multiple capes,or is even heavy wool, or no. Perhaps a long light coat for fall or spring or riding or traveling. "Great" referring to its length. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:01:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GL1FGN005896 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:01:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GL1M0K011875; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:01:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GL0rEX072043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:00:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GL0pX7023283; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:00:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GL0jqT023150 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:00:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26026 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:32:18 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:32:17 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books In-Reply-To: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:01:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D222.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, E House wrote: > Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart > Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in > Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X This is out. Our reviewer already has her copy. I don't know when orders were shipped to purchasers, but if you ordered through an intermediary, it may take longer. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:06:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GL6lwA006190 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:06:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GL6s9D014087; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:06:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GL67Om072911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:06:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GL64VJ028573; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:06:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GL60Mm028505 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:06:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f553d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.61]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CC62A26281F for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:05:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002a01c6493d$7b3632a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:06:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:06:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D36E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO When Struensee, a german doctor was excecuted in Copenhagen, the newspapers wrote that he wore a "Viltskur" wich is the danish name of a greatcoat made of fur. His fur coat was made of wolf. It was angle lenght and had a big collar attached to it according to the print they published of the episode. The german doctor had first his right hand cut off, then his head. He had an affair with our queen. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] "Great Coat" > Dear List, > I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the > term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the > context > that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that > "coat" > could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? > > Thanks. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:17:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLH2qR006684 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:17:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLH8ID018210; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:17:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GLGgJC074676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:16:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLGdib039444; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:16:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2GLGYEg039379 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:16:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 26170 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 13:16:06 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 26162, pid: 26163, t: 2.0587s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 13:16:04 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316131522.021ccd40@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:16:27 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books In-Reply-To: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:17:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D5D4.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 12:41 PM 3/16/2006, you wrote: >Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > >"Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and >Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside >Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan >ISBN: 190199239X > >"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) >ISBN: ? > >The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it >was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site >says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's >been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my >Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any >point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it >and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. > >I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike >the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in >mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} > >-E House >(Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suuuuuuuuuure?) I ordered "The Tudor Tailor" and I'm eagerly awaiting its delivery. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:17:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLHeSn006733 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:17:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLHkNg025139; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:17:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GLHPeZ074805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:17:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLHHaC040108; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:17:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLHCa0039979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:17:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-101.sonic.net [209.148.114.101]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2GLH8Bc020224 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:17:11 -0800 Message-ID: <4419D5D8.6010602@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:17:12 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:17:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D5FA.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO E House wrote: > Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan > ISBN: 190199239X Yes. > > "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) > ISBN: ? No. > > The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:22:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLMo0f006948 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:22:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLMrM2020654; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:22:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GLMJ5c075587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:22:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLMGZ9045204; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:22:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2GLMBnj045001 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:22:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCBVXZDAA3V9JJ for (sender ); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LKL5YB2Y; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:20:38 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:18:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Message-ID: <20060316.132008.680.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-29 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 10:5:1090389120 X-MAIL-INFO: 5b01d960d9a1f50da1f54d09f54db441d4217d4430382174c4cd302574ad79557471c13901c00114d54d80f50109 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgrZOloULDguKUHbM92GgK6U= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:23:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D72D.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Boydell & Brewer (David Brown Co., in the US) had it out last month. Arlys On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:32:17 -0600 (CST) Robin Netherton writes: > > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, E House wrote: > > > Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > > > "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and > Stuart > > Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites > in > > Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X > > This is out. Our reviewer already has her copy. I don't know when > orders > were shipped to purchasers, but if you ordered through an > intermediary, it > may take longer. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:29:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLT2rh007240 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:29:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLT9GE023331; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:29:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GLSrFF076685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:28:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLSngI051746; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:28:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLShPI051634 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:28:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so457560nzo for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:28:43 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=PzkoOSUvk9nb3bNFBNRNjnZ9/xuyNabwcIuPlMyvYo/QiClnexvcLYowC4wXHZkCJbJ9fFZF16W/70ZEKnTnIPWSLcuTHYA2PHOiOJcVDj1ReOIQcz/F++pQ/WqZ85UuNXqDrRe0Qvb2WwzY6GGoqfk4vIsOdqu0DE+Su5q50LM= Received: by 10.64.112.8 with SMTP id k8mr1280qbc; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:28:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:28:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:28:42 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2GLShPI051634 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:29:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D8A5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >> Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my >>copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate >>brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the >>cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure >>on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? >>Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted >>as in the 16th c menswear. >Most of the doublets I've seen seem to be a sort of cross between the two: >the closure laps, but it's not quite the fully developed vent of the later >coats. It's pretty hard to explain, but easy to do and seems to work well. >Melusine >Abraham Bossé the fashion illustrator has made a print of La Gallerie du >Pallais showing ready made cuffs and collars exhibitted in a gallanterie >shop. The Cuffs are open, and i believe they were pinned in place. >Bjarne Thanks to you both for speedy replies! I'll search for M Bossé's illustrations. Can either of you show me a picture or point me to a extant doublet, book, painting or drawing? Naomi Tarrant doesnt show it, either tho she goes into great detail about other parts of 1630s construction. Grrrr. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:29:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLTNsH007250 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:29:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLTUmk032469; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:29:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GLTG2X076792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:29:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLTEkL052203; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:29:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLT8fR052090 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:29:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 37so455270wra for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:29:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hFQj+CLuS5aSMElz1SGjhKG8Lx4hh1rhPHI3m4FdNTpWYX1oxPFojvU5ri2fFByEFk2lRjHr2LZ8i5xwvKkf0h2F3gDPXQVP2fl1uACaM9EiKQUjGwpb7Qww0h3RY/akKAhs47Z75qzcl8iG/LwRoZ3Qt0WoLtPsFTqEo4KXA4w= Received: by 10.54.138.20 with SMTP id l20mr1366043wrd; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.130.8 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:29:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:29:05 -0600 From: "Onaree Berard" To: "Historical Costume" In-Reply-To: <20060316.132008.680.2.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060316.132008.680.2.Cley@juno.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2GLT8fR052090 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: semi-OT: waiting for books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:29:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419D8BA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Could you give the url to David Brown Co for those of us in the US? Onaree On 3/16/06, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Boydell & Brewer (David Brown Co., in the US) had it out last month. > > Arlys -- Proud List Mom of Irish_Crochet_Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:49:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLnem1008039 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:49:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLnllo032218; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:49:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GLnBxR081207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:49:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLn6VR073728; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:49:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLmujo073486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:48:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:29791 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FK0Kx-00021O-PI for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:48:52 -0600 Message-ID: <03df01c64943$658f6290$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> <4419D5D8.6010602@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:48:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:49:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419DD7B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" > When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where you > can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ she's checked that, but I'll make sure. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 16:59:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLxD91008331 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:59:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GLxKNa003684; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:59:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GLwvvG083276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:58:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLwtWg084369; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:58:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GLwmrj084222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-101.sonic.net [209.148.114.101]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2GLwfub005047 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:58:47 -0800 Message-ID: <4419DF95.1030008@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:58:45 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> <4419D5D8.6010602@lavoltapress.com> <03df01c64943$658f6290$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <03df01c64943$658f6290$e100a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:59:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419DFB8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Considering it's almost impossible to get hold of a live person at Amazon, the "Your Account" page is probably your only recourse. Note that these days if you choose the free shipping option, Amazon often holds the entire order until _all_ items are available, which can be weeks or even a couple of months. I'm not worrying about my order for the _Tudor Tailor_, and wouldn't until around mid April at the very least. First they have to get the books from the printer--March is not over yet--then yours has to get to you, presumably via media mail. In fact I seldom worry about these things at all--nagging someone is not going to get either their book printer or media mail to hurry up. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" > >> When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where >> you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. > > > The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ she's > checked that, but I'll make sure. > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 17:29:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GMTSGE009430 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:29:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GMTZSm015821; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:29:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GMSmSl088105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:28:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GMSgJQ014225; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:28:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GMSYZD014028 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26785 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:00:03 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:00:02 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books In-Reply-To: <20060316.132008.680.2.Cley@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:29:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419E6CF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Boydell & Brewer (David Brown Co., in the US) had it out last month. David Brown is the US branch of the UK's Oxbow booksellers; it is not the same as the publisher Boydell & Brewer, though Brown/Oxbow sells many of Boydell's books (including mine). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 17:31:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GMVNTX009497 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:31:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GMVUvb003818; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:31:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GMUv4s088659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:30:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GMUtkU016711; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GMUpgF016614 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26827 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:02:21 -0600 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:02:20 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: semi-OT: waiting for books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:31:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419E742.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Onaree Berard wrote: > Could you give the url to David Brown Co for those of us in the US? http://www.oxbowbooks.com/home.cfm You'll get a screen asking you whether you want the US or UK site (and pricing). The Egan book is here: http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/44480 --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 17:32:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GMWVjF009559 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:32:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GMWcqE017107; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:32:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GMW7IH088889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:32:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GMW2kF017843; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:32:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2GMVwoZ017652 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:32:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 42529 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2006 22:31:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=R60PM/gUzGUP4D/xr6gtvZDt5VhSf+bigh0d0NhSITOUeA9DJzsnOQuKa7Nc0Sg91UneiA++B/IyRiX++RhDbIHSjD+9H7QRfjDq4qfEcBF6xg0jky7+jw90kBgO197BS3HmZbjbgSiVxTi/ckrkPGb/xvM6VNe/B9am/KvY4eM= ; Message-ID: <20060316223146.42527.qmail@web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.39.131.246] by web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:31:46 PST Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:31:46 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603162036.k2GKZsGN098478@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:32:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419E786.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Wow, that is an awesome painting! I've forgotten how fabulous the old masters, especially Rembrandt were. Most of the time when folks post a painting for reference I just look at the article of clothing or details that are being referenced, but this one just knocked my socks off as a work of art. And I love the outfit. If I can't get my FI interested in having one, I might just have to make something like it for myself! :-) Annette M h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: Message: 1 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:29:26 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic I can only think of Rembrandt's portrait of Jan Six. http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rembrandt/jan_six.jpg.html has links to 2 articles which discuss the significance of the gloves in this picture. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> zeartiste@hotmail.com 15/03/2006 12:48 >>> What is the reason that several Dutch portraits have the person wearing one glove and holding the other? Most of them are on the right hand but the one of Valois one is on the left. If nothing else, I've been introduced to the massive amounts of portraits from the references in this discussion board. --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 17:50:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GMon5T010238 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:50:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GMouQG023948; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:50:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GMoUSJ092439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:50:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GMoPgt037633; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GMoLw4037539 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:50:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f553d.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.61]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A938A262805 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:50:17 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c6494c$13a1a2a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:50:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:50:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419EBD0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Cin, The print i talk about is in the italian fashion history book by Mila Contini, if you would like, i can scan the print for you and send you by email. I am not sertan about what you want, a book about doublets? If there was on i would surely like to know :-) The cut of mens clothes has a doublet from the time! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure >>> Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my >>>copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate > >>brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the >>>cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure >>>on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at > all? >>Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just > abutted > >>as in the 16th c menswear. >>Most of the doublets I've seen seem to be a sort of cross between the two: >>the closure laps, but it's not quite the fully developed vent of the later >>coats. It's pretty hard to explain, but easy to do and seems to work >>well. >>Melusine > >>Abraham Bossé the fashion illustrator has made a print of La Gallerie du >>Pallais showing ready made cuffs and collars exhibitted in a gallanterie >>shop. The Cuffs are open, and i believe they were pinned in place. >>Bjarne > > Thanks to you both for speedy replies! I'll search for M Bossé's > illustrations. Can either of you show me a picture or point me to a > extant doublet, book, painting or drawing? Naomi Tarrant doesnt show > it, either tho she goes into great detail about other parts of 1630s > construction. Grrrr. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 18:24:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GNOU8P011441 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:24:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GNObQa002631; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:24:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GNOJpo097578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:24:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GNOHEP071500; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:24:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2GNOBdk071268 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:24:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 2951 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2006 23:24:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2006 23:24:05 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060316232214.01da5b40@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:24:09 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books In-Reply-To: <4419CF51.7030206@ece.gatech.edu> References: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> <4419CF51.7030206@ece.gatech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:24:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419F3B5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 20:49 16/03/2006, you wrote: >I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March >2006" and it is still March... > >E House wrote: > >>Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? >> >> >> >>"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) >>ISBN: ? Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 18:30:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GNUYN9011639 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:30:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2GNUeew005690; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:30:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GNUFfL098385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:30:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GNUC4B077481; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:30:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2GNU8Wc077373 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FK1ux-000L6z-78 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:30:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:28:33 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 250 References: <200603141900.k2EJ0GbG043948@net.indra.com> <8C8165CDA4DA977-1758-2AFA@mblk-r19.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8165CDA4DA977-1758-2AFA@mblk-r19.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:30:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4419F520.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I believe the word "factio" originally referred to the chariot-racing teams, and then the supporters of each team banded together for social welfare etc, and the modern meaning of "faction" as a political grouping grew out of that. Jean tearoses@aol.com wrote >Ooh! I was just reading about this! The Roman hippodrome had four >stables which each had a different color associated with it: red, >green, blue, and white. They were like different teams, so maybe the >filmmakers assumed people would have dressed in their teams' colors >just like modern sports fans (and I wouldn't be surprised if they were >right). Those four colors were also associated with the four political >factions that served as labor unions/guilds/political machines for the >city of Rome, and later Constantinople, so alternatively, they could >have been implying that those people were supporters of those factions. >I haven't found out yet if the stables were associated with the >factions, but in Constantinople, the emperor Justinian was nearly >overthrown by an alliance of the four factions at the end of a chariot >race in the hippodrome, which seems to have been used by the factions >to whip the crowd into a suitably revolutionary frenzy. > >I hope this helps! > >Tea Rose >----------------------- > >Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:04 -0700 >From: WickedFrau >Subject: [h-cost] Toga trim in Gladiator.. > >I was rewatching Gladiators this weekend and wondered if there were some >color system to the toga trims. In some scenes there seemed to be >groups of black trim, red and I think blue....anyone aware of any >historical information for this? >Thanks, > >Sg >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 19:38:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H0coof013739 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:38:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H0cvXB026128; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:39:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H0cY9K008318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H0cSsP038230; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:38:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H0cM3Z038076 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:38:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.218]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060317003816.YAKD18974.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:38:16 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060316183254.0288a5d0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:38:08 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200603162106.k2GL6Y0g028914@net.indra.com> References: <200603162106.k2GL6Y0g028914@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:39:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441A0521.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I ordered "Material culture in London in an age of transition: Tudor and Stuart period finds c. 1450 - c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan on 10/18/05 from DBBC "The Tutor Tailor" is due out in April. I ordered mine 1/30/06 directly from the author. I have not received either as yet. Beth At 03:06 PM 3/16/2006, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:41:28 -0600 >From: "E House" > >Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > >"Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart >Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in >Southwark" by Geoff Egan >ISBN: 190199239X > >"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) >ISBN: ? > >The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on >sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been >available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and >nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm >trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if >others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. > >I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the >first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I >want to play with it. =} > >-E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 22:06:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H36kCE017511 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:06:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H36rxV002993; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:06:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H368k2030025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:06:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H360MA058761; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:06:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H35urB058678 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:05:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A671164603EC; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:01:05 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:06:06 -0800 Message-ID: <005f01c6496f$bbb1d870$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:06:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441A27CD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I ordered "Tudor Tailor" and have not received it yet. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:41 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House (Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suuuuuuuuuure?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 22:08:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H38GHZ017544 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:08:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H38NUB023362; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:08:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H386E1030238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:08:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3869u060308; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:08:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H382Y9060262 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:08:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6EF116051A; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:03:11 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:08:11 -0800 Message-ID: <006001c64970$06952400$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <4419DF95.1030008@lavoltapress.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:08:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441A2827.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Try 1-800-201-7575. I've gotten a real, live person at this number. Good luck! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:59 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Considering it's almost impossible to get hold of a live person at Amazon, the "Your Account" page is probably your only recourse. Note that these days if you choose the free shipping option, Amazon often holds the entire order until _all_ items are available, which can be weeks or even a couple of months. I'm not worrying about my order for the _Tudor Tailor_, and wouldn't until around mid April at the very least. First they have to get the books from the printer--March is not over yet--then yours has to get to you, presumably via media mail. In fact I seldom worry about these things at all--nagging someone is not going to get either their book printer or media mail to hurry up. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" > > >> When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where >> you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. > > > The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ > she's > checked that, but I'll make sure. > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 22:16:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H3GLL2017722 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:16:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H3GS2R005706; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:16:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3FBuP031201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:15:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3F9an065892; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:15:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3F6Kd065787 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:15:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.30b.52a1f3 (4418) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:14:51 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <30b.52a1f3.314b83ab@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:14:51 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:16:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441A2A0C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2006 3:57:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: Perhaps it just means the outer most coat, or a long coat....whether it has multiple capes,or is even heavy wool, or no. Perhaps a long light coat for fall or spring or riding or traveling. "Great" referring to its length No, this is definitely what we would call a dress of some kind--one of her friends is putting one on for dinner. I'm only familiar with the definition as an overcoat, and that is why I'm so confused. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 22:19:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H3J9pU017763 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:19:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H3JG2F006429; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:19:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3Hwo9031965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:17:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3HvXT068605; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:17:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3HrFw068504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:17:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H52RIT024906 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 00:02:28 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:22:43 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <03a401c6493a$019c9e50$e100a8c0@compaqub> <4419CF51.7030206@ece.gatech.edu> <6.2.3.4.0.20060316232214.01da5b40@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060316232214.01da5b40@127.0.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603162222.44092.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:19:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441A2AB4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Thursday 16 March 2006 6:24 pm, Suzi Clarke wrote: [snip] > >E House wrote: > >>Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > >> > >> > >> > >>"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) > >>ISBN: ? > > Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They > will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. Good. I have my certificate that the received my payment; just waiting for the book.... -- Cathy Raymond "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 22:21:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H3L7M1017798 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:21:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H3LEMF028281; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:21:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3KtRS032538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:20:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3KrKl070955; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:20:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3KnN4070821 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:20:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.30d.52f996 (4418) for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:20:39 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <30d.52f996.314b8507@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:20:39 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:21:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441A2B2A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2006 8:51:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: When Struensee, a german doctor was excecuted in Copenhagen, the newspapers wrote that he wore a "Viltskur" wich is the danish name of a greatcoat made of fur. His fur coat was made of wolf. It was angle lenght and had a big collar attached to it according to the print they published of the episode. The german doctor had first his right hand cut off, then his head. He had an affair with our queen. Thanks Bjarne, but in the context this is definitely a "dress" of some kind. One of several references--"We have retired to dress for dinner. Shall I tell you our dresses? I hear you say "Yes." Mrs. P. wears a brocade; Cousin M. her pink Great-Coat, and I my pink." However, your story reminded me that I read a historical novel years ago about this queen. According to that author, her husband was, ahem, not that interested in women, so she turned elsewhere for solace. It was so long ago that I don't remember the title or author, but I remember it was about a queen of Denmark, and that her lover was a learned man. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 22:54:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H3s8V8018691 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:54:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H3sFEX016163; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:54:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3rNwP037370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:53:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3rKKJ096706; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:53:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.147]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H3rGj2096623 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:53:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060317035310.LHMI19792.mta204-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:53:10 +1300 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.178.63]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060317035310.WSYH1416.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:53:10 +1300 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.385 [268.2.4/282]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:53:13 +1300 Message-ID: <00d601c64976$50d60650$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:53:11 +1300 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:54:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441A32E7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the > term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the context > that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that "coat" > could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? Would it be possible to read this in context? It may help us understand the context better as well. Have you tried the 18thC woman list on yahoo? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/ michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 15/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 16 23:58:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H4whR5020064 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:58:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2H4woqf001431; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:58:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H4wH7l046379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:58:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H4w9nr046972; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:58:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mail.areatech.com [216.106.88.186] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H4w6vf046930 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:58:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B99D36D6D for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:58:05 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] period dye color references Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:58:25 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:58:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441A420A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have always heard that it is the flower or the whole plant that is used in dyeing not just the root. (Though there is a site online that says you can get a red from the root). What color is made, I don't know as I have not gotten into natural dyeing. One person told me that she achieved an almost saffron color reddish yellow with the flowers. And another said she used Alum and got yellow. So maybe the mordant might have an effect in the color. Another said that the leaves with salt made red. Found this site of someones experiment: http://www.sewanee.edu/chem/chem&art/Detail_Pages/Projects_2003/Lawrence/htm l/Lawrence.html The root of the dandelion is good for the liver and has been used in cases of cirrhosis of the liver. It is a diuretic which helps to flush the liver and kidney's. The leaves when picked young is good to add to a salad. The leaves also contain A,B,C, and D vitamins, plus potassium salts, iron and other minerals. The flowers are edible as well and pretty up a salad. The root is also an anti-rheumatic and a mild laxative. If you choose to try dandelion in your diet, please learn the hows and wheres of harvesting the plant. Like don't eat of a dandelion growing very near a highway of road. De -----Original Message----- ..as far as any of the more experienced dyers could tell, get reds from dandelion root. Pixel/Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 06:43:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HBhmXo012368 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:43:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HBhsk1021194; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:43:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HBhPHO099196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 04:43:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HBhAqp032350; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 04:43:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HBh6qY032278 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 04:43:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2d5.4ea479e (4328) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:42:55 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <2d5.4ea479e.314bfabe@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:42:54 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:43:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AA0FA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/16/2006 10:53:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: Would it be possible to read this in context? It may help us understand the context better as well. Have you tried the 18thC woman list on yahoo? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/ I did the first--see a later post. But will try the second. Thanks for the suggestion. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 07:08:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HC86l5018303 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:08:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HC8DJd028057; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:08:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HC7tiF002251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:07:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HC7pn9049264; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:07:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HC7miP049196 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:07:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 04:07:43 -0800 Message-ID: <441AA695.3060006@msn.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:07:49 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20060316161949.85834.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060316161949.85834.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2006 12:07:43.0121 (UTC) FILETIME=[65240810:01C649BB] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Digest Archives etc. was :] Issue 230? Equestrian, et al X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:08:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AA6AD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Gotcha...now another question...what's this? h-costume-request@indra.com (It is at the bottom of your note) Is this where you ask things like how many people are on the list, who is on the list etc? I haven't done it in awhile. Are the digests retrievable that way? Also, have you tried looking for digests or days of mail on the archives. I find this one especially useful. http://www.mail-archive.com/h-costume@mail.indra.com/index.html (There are several others which can be found here: http://www.mail-archive.com/h-costume@mail.indra.com/info.html) Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 07:35:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HCYv9N022950 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:34:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HCZ4D6003016; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:35:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HCYle1006169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:34:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HCYjUd071933; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:34:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HCYcUQ071790 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:34:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00729 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:06:13 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:06:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Archives (clip and save so I don't have to keep posting this!) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:35:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AACF8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Fri, 17 Mar 2006, WickedFrau wrote: > Gotcha...now another question...what's this? > h-costume-request@indra.com (It is at the bottom of your note) It's how you reach the listowner by e-mail. > Is this where you ask things like how many people are on the list, who > is on the list etc? I haven't done it in awhile. Do that here: > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Are the digests retrievable that way? No, indra doesn't keep digests. Use Eric's collection of past posts, month by month, at http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/ . To find recent individual posts, try http://news.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume (since late June) or http://www.mail-archive.com/h-costume@mail.indra.com/index.html#03702 (since about the same time). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 08:18:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDIZMG002675 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:18:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDIfaY018442; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:18:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HDHsVM012550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:17:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDHkEH007301; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:17:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H5nc2w082510 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:49:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.220.19]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20060317054927.ZVUV4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 00:49:27 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 00:49:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcZJUd50yZJ2myqlSQ6j2YdbV5FIEwANJE8g In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060316232214.01da5b40@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: <20060317054927.ZVUV4894.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:18:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AB731.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They >will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. >Suzi Thank you. I am also waiting for a copy. Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 3/15/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 08:18:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDItQ4002734 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:18:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDJ2wJ032080; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:19:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HDIaiI012668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:18:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDIZAg007958; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:18:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.176.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2H86wDx080816 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:07:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lenastrid@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 14615 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2006 08:06:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QjEV9Ai39qiolcntpKJaGwF0XZqynvSaWzwUVvhA6Zbz1kHFhLYzGt1WZyck7tj5hxoyxR3VtVmNcIItf6h1XNACxABz52CK1qWY2wcj1FXd20VF9J6Kbe7Se32Db0glLsGJbeJxEaj8fWR5RcPlYcyY+JGgeIVCwj/zvZNCbCs= ; Message-ID: <20060317080652.14613.qmail@web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.158.62.84] by web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:06:52 GMT Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:06:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Lena Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:19:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AB746.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > There's an even better example in Walter Map's "De > Nugis Curialium" > where he tells a story of a monk whose order > disdained underpants as > being too luxurious, so that when he took a tumble > in the street he > exposed his ... parts for all and sundry to see. > Walter gives the > moral of the story as something roughly equivalent > to "sometimes > discretion is the better part of asceticism". > > Heather Do you know where in De Nugis Curialium this story is? I've been wanting to follow up this reference for quite a while, but the book is reference only, and rather thick, so I can't justify an entire photocopy. /Lena ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 08:19:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDJKcA002810 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:19:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDJR0a013511; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:19:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HDJ54P012816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDJ4H7008501; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:19:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HAdPa5088756 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:39:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24759.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.89]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3F778A5008B for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:39:19 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003901c649af$18765330$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <30d.52f996.314b8507@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:39:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=41% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:19:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AB75F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Ann, Yes the king was suffering from scitsofrenia, dont know how you spell it propper, sorry, and the german doctor had good treatments for the king, eventually love grew betwen the queen and the doctor. The queen had a daughter wich was the doctors child, but she actually was treated like a real princess. The doctor was excecuted and the queen was deported to Germany where she died few years later. We have a lack of portraits of the queen, because they mostly all was burned. Even the summer pallace where they spended their affairs, was teared down to the ground. True story. I could ask the 18th century womens list about the Great Coat for women, never heard that. Only outer garment i know women used, was a cloak, a saloppe, and a Brunswick. The last term, Brunswick had a special variation here in Denmark, it was used for indoor wear, and was cut same way as a robe a la francaise, except no pleats in the back, but a hood in the neck. It was another queen that came from Brunswick wich introduced this version to the danish ladys. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:20 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" > > In a message dated 3/16/2006 8:51:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > When Struensee, a german doctor was excecuted in Copenhagen, the > newspapers > wrote that he wore a "Viltskur" wich is the danish name of a greatcoat > made > of fur. His fur coat was made of wolf. It was angle lenght and had a big > collar attached to it according to the print they published of the > episode. > The german doctor had first his right hand cut off, then his head. He had > an > affair with our queen. > > > > Thanks Bjarne, but in the context this is definitely a "dress" of some > kind. > One of several references--"We have retired to dress for dinner. Shall I > tell you our dresses? I hear you say "Yes." Mrs. P. wears a brocade; > Cousin > M. her pink Great-Coat, and I my pink." > > However, your story reminded me that I read a historical novel years ago > about this queen. According to that author, her husband was, ahem, not > that > interested in women, so she turned elsewhere for solace. It was so long > ago > that I don't remember the title or author, but I remember it was about a > queen > of Denmark, and that her lover was a learned man. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 08:19:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDJjW2002887 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:19:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDJqbt004520; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:19:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HDJVfe012965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:19:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDJVAJ009042; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:19:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HCnaPx084728 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:49:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail1.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C931C4BF18 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:49:32 +1100 (EST) Received: from 220-253-123-230.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-123-230.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.123.230]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:49:32 +1100 Message-ID: <1142599772.441ab05cb77c5@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:49:32 +1100 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:19:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AB778.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO If you've ever marched up and down some hill in the rain in the middle of the night with some idgit sergeant barking at you coz he's been barked at, you'll know what a great coat is! (A big overcoat) -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 08:23:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDNF5q003464 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:23:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDNML9020175; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:23:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HDMsGO013517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:22:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDMrhZ011897; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:22:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDMoU9011777 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A82301C4; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:22:43 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.144 ([209.131.80.144] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 17 Mar 2006 08:22:40 -0500 Message-ID: <00b601c649c6$33042620$905083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <30d.52f996.314b8507@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:25:01 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:23:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AB84A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sounds to me that this "coat" might be her own term for a RobeD'Anglais? Even in these modern times I hear discussions about coat dresses of the 18th C. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" > > In a message dated 3/16/2006 8:51:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > When Struensee, a german doctor was excecuted in Copenhagen, the newspapers > wrote that he wore a "Viltskur" wich is the danish name of a greatcoat made > of fur. His fur coat was made of wolf. It was angle lenght and had a big > collar attached to it according to the print they published of the episode. > The german doctor had first his right hand cut off, then his head. He had an > affair with our queen. > > > > Thanks Bjarne, but in the context this is definitely a "dress" of some kind. > One of several references--"We have retired to dress for dinner. Shall I > tell you our dresses? I hear you say "Yes." Mrs. P. wears a brocade; Cousin > M. her pink Great-Coat, and I my pink." > > However, your story reminded me that I read a historical novel years ago > about this queen. According to that author, her husband was, ahem, not that > interested in women, so she turned elsewhere for solace. It was so long ago > that I don't remember the title or author, but I remember it was about a queen > of Denmark, and that her lover was a learned man. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 08:25:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDPK2U004209 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:25:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDPQv8002802; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:25:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HDP6KI013927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDP6Na013840; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:25:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDP213013734 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:25:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A8A801D4; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:24:56 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.144 ([209.131.80.144] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 17 Mar 2006 08:24:53 -0500 Message-ID: <00bc01c649c6$8245c2c0$905083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00d601c64976$50d60650$0401010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:27:14 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:25:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AB8C6.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Also, is this diary American or English or whatever. I suppose that could in itself give a clue. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" > > I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the > > term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the > context > > that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that > "coat" > > could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? > > Would it be possible to read this in context? It may help us understand the > context better as well. > > Have you tried the 18thC woman list on yahoo? > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/ > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 15/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 08:41:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDfAIV006108 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:41:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HDfH7k027009; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:41:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HDelhF016831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:40:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDegLg027582; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:40:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HDeeXf027557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:40:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.12.9/Submit) id k2HDeec9027555 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:40:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:40:40 -0700 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives (clip and save so I don't have to keep posting this!) Message-ID: <20060317134040.GA11609@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:41:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441ABC7D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > h-costume-request@indra.com (It is at the bottom of your note) > It's how you reach the listowner by e-mail. Nope, sorry - the h-costume-request address is for subbing or unsubbing through email. To reach me, the owner, use h-costume-owner. ...eliz -- Children are made up of genetics, blind luck, and the stories you tell them. - The Flying Ks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 09:07:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HE7Hx5006520 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:07:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HE7OKb004794; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:07:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HE6rYM020945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:06:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HE6pVW049922; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:06:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HE6mag049770 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:06:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2fb.cb14ab (4230) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:06:38 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <2fb.cb14ab.314c1c69@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:06:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:07:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AC29C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/17/2006 8:20:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, stilskin@netspace.net.au writes: If you've ever marched up and down some hill in the rain in the middle of the night with some idgit sergeant barking at you coz he's been barked at, you'll know what a great coat is! (A big overcoat) Ah, yes, I know this definition well, and have seen many examples. However, I repeat, in the context I'm talking about, this garment is most definitely NOT a heavy overcoat!!!! You don't wear those to dinner, I don't think, unless in camp, in the driving rain or numbing cold. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 09:09:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HE953F006584 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:09:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HE9Csv025998; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:09:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HE8kw2021275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:08:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HE8kBG051718; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:08:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HE8gsn051583 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:08:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2f8.e1ed75 (4230) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:08:31 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <2f8.e1ed75.314c1cdf@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:08:31 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:09:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AC308.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/17/2006 8:23:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: Sounds to me that this "coat" might be her own term for a RobeD'Anglais? Even in these modern times I hear discussions about coat dresses of the 18th C. Thanks--that makes some sense. I am going to post to the 18thc Woman list, too, as soon as my membership is approved. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 09:09:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HE9Rx4006599 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:09:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HE9Yw0005666; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:09:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HE9NCi021367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:09:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HE9KKr052272; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:09:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HE9HN6052117 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:09:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.271.7c600d9 (4230) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:09:10 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <271.7c600d9.314c1d05@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:09:09 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:09:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AC31E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/17/2006 8:25:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rmitchell@washjeff.edu writes: Also, is this diary American or English or whatever. I suppose that could in itself give a clue. Kathleen American, tidewater Virginia, 1787. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 10:19:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HFJNvM008724 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:19:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HFJTbi003772; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:19:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HFISRp047786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:18:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HFIKxd011914; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:18:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HFIEL3011815 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:18:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm24.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3DCB1854B for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:18:13 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060317071813.1CC49DB@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:18:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Toga trim in Gladiator X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EGtM1yrViSwEAAAAB,f46711d175f163314c43a1948130deea X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:19:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AD381.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO <--- tearoses@aol.com wrote: < Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HFxi3w009792 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:59:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HFxpws021819; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:59:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HFxOZS056161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:59:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HFxLgC052732; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:59:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HFxHDR052665 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:59:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm24.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44D7A180A9 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:59:17 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060317075855.1CC7DAA@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:58:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EGty/qtCd3QEAAAAB,f6a1eab67287dc8acbb4898e9afbcd17 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2HFxHDR052665 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:59:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441ADCF7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >--- K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk wrote: > >I believe magenta was one of the aniline dyes invented in the later 19th century and >was named after a battle in Napoleon III's reign - but I assume the poster was >referring to a natural colour approaching that shade. > >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 15/03/2006 21:49 >>> > >I always thought that magenta was named after a battle in the >Napoleonic wars but I could be way wrong! > >Suzi I found this: magenta adj : deep purplish red n 1: a dark purple-red; the dye was discovered in 1859, the year of the battle of Magenta [syn: fuchsia] 2: a battle in 1859 in which the French and Sardinian forces under Napoleon III defeated the Austrians under Francis Joseph I [syn: Magenta, Battle of Magenta] Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University And this is just interesting: Main Entry: fuch·sin Variant: or fuch·sine /'fyük-s&n, -"sEn/ Function: noun : a dye that is produced by oxidation of a mixture of aniline and toluidines, that yields a brilliant bluish red, and that is used in carbolfuchsin paint, in Schiff's reagent, and as a biological stain Fuchs /'fuks/, Leonhard (1501–1566), German botanist and physician. In 1542 Fuchs published De Historia Stirpium, a manual of herbal plants that stands as a landmark in botany. The work is historically important for its orderly presentation, accurate drawings and precise plant descriptions, and its glossary of botanical terms. Fuchs was especially interested in the medicinal properties of plants, and his book listed the reputed powers of each. The genus Fuchsia was named in his honor by Linnaeus in 1753. Fuchsia also denotes the vivid reddish purple color of the flowers of many plants belonging to the genus. Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. I love this list - it leads me to look up so many interesting things - I had no idea before this that the colour was named after a Napoleonic battle. Joannah. ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 11:09:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HG91tT010080 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:09:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HG9893025913; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:09:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HG8MfK057790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HG8K7M060795; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:08:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2HG82p5060490 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 99279 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2006 16:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2006 16:07:56 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060317160727.01deee30@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:08:08 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references In-Reply-To: <20060317075855.1CC7DAA@resin05.mta.everyone.net> References: <20060317075855.1CC7DAA@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2HG82p5060490 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:09:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441ADF24.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 15:58 17/03/2006, you wrote: > >--- K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk wrote: > > > >I believe magenta was one of the aniline dyes > invented in the later 19th century and >was > named after a battle in Napoleon III's reign - > but I assume the poster was >referring to a > natural colour approaching that shade. > > > >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 15/03/2006 21:49 >>> > > > >I always thought that magenta was named after a battle in the > >Napoleonic wars but I could be way wrong! > > > >Suzi > >I found this: > >magenta > >adj : deep purplish red n 1: a dark purple-red; >the dye was discovered in 1859, the year of the >battle of Magenta [syn: fuchsia] 2: a battle in >1859 in which the French and Sardinian forces >under Napoleon III defeated the Austrians under >Francis Joseph I [syn: Magenta, Battle of Magenta] > >Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University > >And this is just interesting: > >Main Entry: fuch·sin >Variant: or fuch·sine /'fyük-s&n, -"sEn/ >Function: noun >: a dye that is produced by oxidation of a >mixture of aniline and toluidines, that yields a >brilliant bluish red, and that is used in >carbolfuchsin paint, in Schiff's reagent, and as a biological stain >Fuchs /'fuks/, Leonhard (1501­1566), German >botanist and physician. In 1542 Fuchs published >De Historia Stirpium, a manual of herbal plants >that stands as a landmark in botany. The work is >historically important for its orderly >presentation, accurate drawings and precise >plant descriptions, and its glossary of >botanical terms. Fuchs was especially interested >in the medicinal properties of plants, and his >book listed the reputed powers of each. The >genus Fuchsia was named in his honor by Linnaeus >in 1753. Fuchsia also denotes the vivid reddish >purple color of the flowers of many plants belonging to the genus. >Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. > >I love this list - it leads me to look up so >many interesting things - I had no idea before >this that the colour was named after a Napoleonic battle. I did, but the wrong Napoleon. See, a little knowledge.................... Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 11:19:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HGJ2br010463 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:19:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HGJ9Hj030611; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:19:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HGIXN0059444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:18:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HGIRnF070030; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:18:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2HFrf8B046888 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:53:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 99207 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2006 15:53:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=g71JSFbirXd9eMBGUrdngf1Yug9kafE3DKc3m16rbwYBiL/IctOyly5on62P9/5hYHyFOEASS4fzfUQdexbZtTWXyxeNr9OQNauluqClZk6iY9z2q+8INg1LHCiRZA+UDQzHb2Z+d1uijXG3S8gK4R5UvA8MV4aiKcXX0zFUGBk= ; Message-ID: <20060317155336.99205.qmail@web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:53:36 PST Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:53:36 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603171340.k2HDehO2027603@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:19:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AE17D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My modern references state thus: #1. Dandelion flowers with alum mordant produce a soft yellow, flowers with a tin mordant produce yellow, and the whole plant -roots, leaves and flowers - without mordant produces a magenta color. #2. Dandelion flowers with tin mordant produce a golden yellow and dandelion root with an alum mordant a gold-yellow similar to what we call 'goldenrod' paper. (this one has a color chart) I spent a few years as a R&D lab technician at a homeopathic manufacturing company. Dandelion is a great foodstuff/supplement. Good for the liver too. My dad used it in salads and for making wine. Annette M (looking forward to finally moving into our new house where there is a lot more space for sewing and room to start experimenting with natural dyes) h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: Message: 6 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:58:25 -0600 From: "otsisto" Subject: RE: [h-cost] period dye color references I have always heard that it is the flower or the whole plant that is used in dyeing not just the root. (Though there is a site online that says you can get a red from the root). What color is made, I don't know as I have not gotten into natural dyeing. One person told me that she achieved an almost saffron color reddish yellow with the flowers. And another said she used Alum and got yellow. So maybe the mordant might have an effect in the color. Another said that the leaves with salt made red. Found this site of someones experiment: http://www.sewanee.edu/chem/chem&art/Detail_Pages/Projects_2003/Lawrence/htm l/Lawrence.html The root of the dandelion is good for the liver and has been used in cases of cirrhosis of the liver. It is a diuretic which helps to flush the liver and kidney's. The leaves when picked young is good to add to a salad. The leaves also contain A,B,C, and D vitamins, plus potassium salts, iron and other minerals. The flowers are edible as well and pretty up a salad. The root is also an anti-rheumatic and a mild laxative. If you choose to try dandelion in your diet, please learn the hows and wheres of harvesting the plant. Like don't eat of a dandelion growing very near a highway of road. De -----Original Message----- ..as far as any of the more experienced dyers could tell, get reds from dandelion root. Pixel/Margaret --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 11:19:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HGJKsQ010480 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:19:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HGJRtB009049; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:19:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HGJ5Ui059549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HGJ4d5070681; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:19:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HFtcNj049111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:55:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:11301 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FKHIj-00089z-TX for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:55:42 -0600 Message-ID: <047601c649db$3c352860$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2d5.4ea479e.314bfabe@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:55:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] German water--attn dyers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:19:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441AE18F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO One of my customers, an American who lives in Germany, recently mentioned something that I'd never heard before: for some reason, a lot of dyes bleed in their water, which wouldn't bleed in US water (definitely including commercial dyes, on cloth from the US and possibly also from Europe). Do we have any people from Germany on the list? Have you dealt with this phenomenon? Any idea what might be in German water/missing from German water that wouldn't be in/missing from US water? Could it be flouride? I'm trying to find some sort of mordant/dye setting chemical that I could use, that would fix the dye on the cloth I'm about to use for her gown. Aside from some flouridated toothpaste I can only get from the dentist, I have no ideas for a source of OTC flouride, but if flouride is absent from German water that'd definitely be the first thing I'd want to try. My only other idea for the moment is vinegar, which I think is not technically a mordant, but does have dye-setting properties on at least some fibers. (The fabrics I'll be using are linen and silk.) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 13:41:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HIfxH6016563 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:41:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HIfx9B028487; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:42:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HIe6wx084745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:40:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HIe3XI000471; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:40:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HIdtTL000311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:39:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:11703 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FKJri-0000zl-4O for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:39:58 -0600 Message-ID: <048e01c649f2$2e0a7b70$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060317155336.99205.qmail@web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:39:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:42:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B02F8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kahlara" > My modern references state thus: > #1. Dandelion flowers with alum mordant produce a soft yellow, flowers > with a tin mordant produce yellow, and the whole plant -roots, leaves and > flowers - without mordant produces a magenta color. Does your reference say anything about colorfastness? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 13:58:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HIwjwa017355 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HIwoZH002963; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HIndlG085873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:58:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HHmTLH051383; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:48:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HHlbC0050603 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:47:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so639950nzo for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:47:32 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=cWnok8hIbnep11Xu7o9ylg/eWyKgdyqnv9jxY8BmHeX24eJ5fngY5mObQ9CxXngLilMsU4u1bXKXklJEbojyboAncLP+T1U8kWpjsK7D9ACxFsLAp88wq+Zw5C3GHzrj58r/Lo/2SAN3R2N3i9Pwt8WWeVlLI3j9YehU56u2tTI= Received: by 10.64.96.5 with SMTP id t5mr107759qbb; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:47:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:47:32 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2HHlbC0050603 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B06EA.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >Hi Cin, >The print i talk about is in the italian fashion history book by Mila >Contini, if you would like, i can scan the print for you and send you by >email. Yes please! That's one book I dont have. I found your guy Abraham Bosse and his lovely illustrations. Pretty pictures! None of them show the doublet wrist closure without the lace cuff. The closure is always covered up. Carpaccio's men are the same always covered by lace so I cant see what I want to see. >I am not sertan about what you want, a book about doublets? If there was on >i would surely like to know :-) I'm trying to figure out how the wrist closure is constructed. I doubt it is constructed like a modern suit jacket where the vent is lapped then sewn in place with false buttonholes. Does it have lots of buttons or just one? Is it laced? hooked? or completely closed & the hand just slips in? I guess i need a picture of a guy getting dressed, just before he turns the lace cuffs back. Or perhaps a pic of a guy in a doublet "shooting his cuffs" the way modern men in suits do. >The cut of mens clothes has a doublet from the time! True. And she, Norah Waugh, never shows the cuff closure. I'll go look thru Janet Arnold again. Thanks, Bjarne, you're a pal! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 13:58:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HIwj6p017356 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HIwpbL007241; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HIndlC085873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:58:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HHjBdu048489; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:45:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HHihYk047912 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:44:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03037 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:16:08 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:16:07 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives (clip and save so I don't have to keep posting this!) In-Reply-To: <20060317134040.GA11609@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B06EB.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Fri, 17 Mar 2006, Elizabeth Lear wrote: > Nope, sorry - the h-costume-request address is for subbing or > unsubbing through email. To reach me, the owner, use h-costume-owner. Whoops. I knew that. (Didn't I?) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 13:58:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HIwk0J017360 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HIwqhd017276; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HIndlE085873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:58:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HI1BQb063836; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:01:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HI0u4c063443 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:01:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.1e3.4df885bb (16111) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:00:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M37 (mblk-m37.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.81]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID123-3eef441af948318; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:00:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:00:38 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81803D5432ACC-19D4-7869@MBLK-M37.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603170306.k2H362nO058775@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by MBLK-M37.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.81) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:00:33 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603170306.k2H362nO058775@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.81 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 259 (Factions and Roman colors) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:58:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B06EC.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That's very interesting. I'm technically studying late antique Byzantium, so I hadn't come across that bit of information yet. Thanks! Tea Rose ================================================================================ From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 250 To: Historical Costume I believe the word "factio" originally referred to the chariot-racing teams, and then the supporters of each team banded together for social welfare etc, and the modern meaning of "faction" as a political grouping grew out of that. Jean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 15:44:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HKi9RL021619 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:44:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HKiG9Y012698; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:44:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HKhlO5002823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:43:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HKhdn8011686; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:43:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HKhVoT011510 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:43:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24759.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.89]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id ECF78FAC04E for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:43:23 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000401c64a03$73f60c60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:43:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:44:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B1FA0.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Cin, I have a catalog from Royal Armory in Stockholm. The swedes has great doublets from the time all very nicely preserved. I also have the fine book the museum published "Fashion Lions" about the mens fashion. The doublets all have 2 piece sleaves. The back seam is not finished, but opened about 5-10 cm. Then they used to (in come cases) turn back the sleave, so that it would make a cuff in itself. But when worn with white linnen cuffs, i suppose they were just pinned together with the cuffs. No buttons, no buttonholes - nothing So my guess is that they pinned the sleaves together at the wrist! Does this make sence? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 18:19:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HNJaIx000333 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:19:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HNJhkc000929; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:19:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HNJ28E025482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:19:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HNIr6Q047876; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:18:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2HNInHC047760 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:18:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 34534 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2006 23:18:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=tFvQ6xb+cgtF0vNOAsAkhGIljq60XdIVbGHedl4ml8kgVBsHw1ls2oofWwRx6UR6kYZar2QbreiK5URZL1P5IzukSz58NKp4BZ13ehNvw/INsRoJWRGTwI4OBKGCuc4Tdjn5bDBSrZhLA9aPwwbfNOI1sx5l7rLa3v94TYIlrMM= ; Message-ID: <20060317231844.34532.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:18:43 PST Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:18:43 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:19:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B440F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Wonderful! So there is reference to a color of that sort, even if it didn't have that name yet, as far back as the 16th century. Thank you! Annette M >Message: 7 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:58:55 -0800 (PST) >From: "Joannah Hansen" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references > -- > >I found this: > >magenta > >adj : deep purplish red n 1: a dark purple-red; the dye was discovered in >1859, the year of the battle of Magenta [syn: fuchsia] 2: a battle in 1859 in >which the French and Sardinian forces under Napoleon III defeated the >Austrians under Francis Joseph I [syn: Magenta, Battle of Magenta] > >Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University > >And this is just interesting: > >Main Entry: fuch·sin >Variant: or fuch·sine /'fyük-s&n, -"sEn/ >Function: noun >: a dye that is produced by oxidation of a mixture of aniline and toluidines, >that yields a brilliant bluish red, and that is used in carbolfuchsin paint, in >Schiff's reagent, and as a biological stain >Fuchs /'fuks/, Leonhard (1501–1566), German botanist and physician. In >1542 Fuchs published De Historia Stirpium, a manual of herbal plants that >stands as a landmark in botany. The work is historically important for its >orderly presentation, accurate drawings and precise plant descriptions, and >its glossary of botanical terms. Fuchs was especially interested in the >medicinal properties of plants, and his book listed the reputed powers of >each. The genus Fuchsia was named in his honor by Linnaeus in 1753. >Fuchsia also denotes the vivid reddish purple color of the flowers of many >plants belonging to the genus. > >Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, >Inc. > >I love this list - it leads me to look up so many interesting things - I had no >idea before this that the colour was named after a Napoleonic battle. > >Joannah. ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 18:24:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HNOQCq000414 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:24:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HNOXXs002504; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:24:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HNN48E025793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:23:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HNN43S051193; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:23:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.148]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2HNN0N8051058 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:23:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 40219 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2006 23:22:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Qo/1660zvj9BDBIc+G4GFYe6et81GvX5XBO1h1jFc5OdR4kNugdQ6KnGxc3Z296YtYgRnOND2JG9+1EJfh9hB3MGhB3a6ULvLBBUZQ8DxoUjVmEP3ZY0F3y+TP3dsh0VyMjiHAEFaJuDJfd5VvWLu7VxYGm5azjpS2hxwq7sYLU= ; Message-ID: <20060317232250.40217.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:22:50 PST Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:22:50 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara Subject: Re: [h-cost] period dye color references/color fastness To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:24:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B4531.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Yes, the first reference stated good color fastness in the yellow with both tin and alum, but had no comment regarding the magenta without mordant - leading me to believe that it is not color fast at all. Annette M Message: 12 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:39:50 -0600 From: "E House" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kahlara" > My modern references state thus: > #1. Dandelion flowers with alum mordant produce a soft yellow, flowers > with a tin mordant produce yellow, and the whole plant -roots, leaves and > flowers - without mordant produces a magenta color. Does your reference say anything about colorfastness? -E House --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 18:53:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HNro64000878 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:53:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2HNrv45012137; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:54:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HNrfQf029382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:53:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HNre1v077698; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:53:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2HMsUQE026352 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:54:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.273.7cf6595 (15862) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:54:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-r26 (mblk-r26.mblk.aol.com [152.163.179.16]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID61-3df6441b3e1b16; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:54:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:54:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com (152.163.179.16) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:54:09 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.179.16 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: German water--attn dyers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:54:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B4C15.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm not a dyer (yet!) but I doubt it's flouride; we don't have it in the water where I live (Independence, Missouri) and I haven't noticed anything like that. Well, we do have a teensy bit that occurs naturally, but it's not artificially added like in most municipal water supplies. I read an article once about how Europeans are always quick to adopt new stuff for their laundry but Americans are more reluctant to buy new products. Could it be something about the detergent she's using? Tea Rose =================================================================== From: "E House" Subject: [h-cost] German water--attn dyers To: "Historical Costume" Any idea what might be in German water/missing from German water that wouldn't be in/missing from US water? Could it be flouride? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 19:47:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I0laYe002187 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:47:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I0lhrT027931; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:47:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I0lAsf035413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:47:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I0l5aq017676; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:47:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I0l1tL017616 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:47:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7613930522; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:42:09 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] German water--attn dyers Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:47:12 -0800 Message-ID: <003c01c64a25$7ef1d0a0$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <047601c649db$3c352860$e100a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2I0l1tL017616 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:47:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B58AF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I've gotten fluoride mouth rinse from our dentist, also I think there is some OTC.I'm not sure of the concentration, though. I think it's more likely a mineral that is/is not in the water, since tin, salt, and alum are all (?) minerals. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 7:56 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] German water--attn dyers One of my customers, an American who lives in Germany, recently mentioned something that I'd never heard before: for some reason, a lot of dyes bleed in their water, which wouldn't bleed in US water (definitely including commercial dyes, on cloth from the US and possibly also from Europe). Do we have any people from Germany on the list? Have you dealt with this phenomenon? Any idea what might be in German water/missing from German water that wouldn't be in/missing from US water? Could it be flouride? I'm trying to find some sort of mordant/dye setting chemical that I could use, that would fix the dye on the cloth I'm about to use for her gown. Aside from some flouridated toothpaste I can only get from the dentist, I have no ideas for a source of OTC flouride, but if flouride is absent from German water that'd definitely be the first thing I'd want to try. My only other idea for the moment is vinegar, which I think is not technically a mordant, but does have dye-setting properties on at least some fibers. (The fabrics I'll be using are linen and silk.) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 19:49:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I0nAI6002213 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:49:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I0nH1b013559; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:49:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I0n5bX035585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:49:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I0n59j019172; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I0n2fQ019125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-113-208.sonic.net [209.148.113.208]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2I0n0qS018110 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:49:02 -0800 Message-ID: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:49:04 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:49:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B590D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Has anyone run across a reference to some sort of early 19th-century tool for pinking fabric called an arrache-pièce à dents? (I'm not sure the accents will come through in the email you receive, but I tried. The only modern reference I've found to this terms to a tool called a "gear puller" in English, and this is certainly not that.) If so can you point me to any more info? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 19:55:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I0te2J002323 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:55:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I0tlja030222; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:55:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I0s52O036504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:54:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I0s4c6022766; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:54:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.161]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I0rw5d022463 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:54:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from Webshield (unknown [165.248.247.154]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 504E24042 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:53:10 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by Webshield (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1142643217778; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:53:37 -1000 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:53:37 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] German water--attn dyers In-Reply-To: <047601c649db$3c352860$e100a8c0@compaqub> Message-ID: References: <2d5.4ea479e.314bfabe@aol.com> <047601c649db$3c352860$e100a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:55:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B5A93.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > Aside from some flouridated toothpaste I can only get from the dentist, > I have no ideas for a source of OTC flouride, but if flouride is absent I have no idea of the effects of fluoride on dye or how close it is to the stuff in water but you can get fluoride tablets or drops from dentists. Water where I live is not fluoridated either but I don't notice the kind of bleeding you mention. lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 20:32:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I1W59d002874 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:32:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I1WCAw007973; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:32:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I1Vwis040936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:31:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1VvoH049424; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:31:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1Vqi2049364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:31:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-220-131.tpgi.com.au [220.244.220.131]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2I1VnhT008617 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:31:51 +1100 Message-ID: <001301c64a2b$baf586e0$83dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives (clip and save so I don't have to keep postingthis!) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:31:49 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:32:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B631C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO To save re-posting this info is there any way we can add the archives address to the info that's attached to the bottom of every email? Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 20:38:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I1cjAT002975 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:38:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I1cq3v009863; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:38:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I1cPVD041589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:38:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1cOeq053663; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:38:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1cKxm053616 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:38:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from oemcomputer.vaxxine.com (ppp45.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.45]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1bFvo001090 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:37:15 -0500 (EST) X-RCPT-To: Message-Id: <4.3.0.20060317202355.02382a00@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@vaxxine.com@pop.vaxxine.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:37:33 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: david webb Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" In-Reply-To: <30b.52a1f3.314b83ab@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:38:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B64AC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm wondering if "great coat" possibly could have been her nickname or personal slang between her and her friends for "redingcote"? I've deleted the original posting, but wasn't the dairy written in 1787? Weren't redingcotes very stylish then? They two terms sound so similar. I read a book years ago about Elizabeth Fry, about the same time period, (maybe a little later?), and she and her sisters had all sorts of family nicknames that would have meant nothing to an outsider. I nicknamed a dress of mine my "Red Army" dress - (it was a wool, army green coat dress) and only my sister would know what that meant. If I had mentioned it in a letter or diary, two hundred years later a reader might think that it was fashionable for women in the 1980's to wear dresses from the Soviet Union military when it was merely an in-joke between friends. Just thinking. Sheridan Alder At 10:14 PM 3/16/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >In a message dated 3/16/2006 3:57:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, >AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > >Perhaps it just means the outer most coat, or a long coat....whether it has > >multiple capes,or is even heavy wool, or no. Perhaps a long light coat for >fall or spring or riding or traveling. "Great" referring to its length > > >No, this is definitely what we would call a dress of some kind--one of her >friends is putting one on for dinner. I'm only familiar with the definition >as an overcoat, and that is why I'm so confused. > >Ann Wass >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 20:40:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I1eM7J002995 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:40:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I1eT3g032674; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:40:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I1dvu6041752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:39:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1duPQ054752; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:39:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1dqKW054663 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:39:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:39:47 -0800 Message-ID: <441B64E9.4090500@msn.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:39:53 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] German water--attn dyers--and chemists! References: <2d5.4ea479e.314bfabe@aol.com> <047601c649db$3c352860$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <047601c649db$3c352860$e100a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Mar 2006 01:39:47.0343 (UTC) FILETIME=[D70A49F0:01C64A2C] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:40:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B650D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Very interesting. I live in an area where the water is over fluoridated (is that a word?) People moving into new developments have to sign a release that they understand the water is not good for children (discolors teeth). I have not experienced any excessive problem with bleeding. We are talking about several washings after the dying right? I have one gown I have had problems with, but it is a cotton/linen blend and I used procion dyes. The deep color has just not held up and does transfer to other clothing if left moist. I use those color catchers, but if the spun items sit for any length of time, it transfers. My linen and linen rayon blends, and silks dye up beautifully. 100% cotton does not dye as deeply. I use all the recommended chemicals, synthropol to wash after a detergent wash, casoline to distribute, soda ash to set, and fixative in a final rinse with softener.... Hmm. As recall there is are a few chemists on the list..they might know more... Sg E House wrote: > One of my customers, an American who lives in Germany, recently > mentioned something that I'd never heard before: for some reason, a > lot of dyes bleed in t dye-setting properties on at least some fibers. > (The fabrics I'll be using are linen and silk.) > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 20:46:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I1kfVm003099 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:46:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I1kmBH012269; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:46:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I1kR4D042317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:46:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1kQl8059300; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:46:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I1kMPU059152 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:46:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:46:16 -0800 Message-ID: <441B666F.1050409@msn.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:46:23 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , Sally Harris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Toga trim in Gladiator References: <20060317071813.1CC49DB@resin05.mta.everyone.net> In-Reply-To: <20060317071813.1CC49DB@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Mar 2006 01:46:16.0569 (UTC) FILETIME=[BF097690:01C64A2D] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:46:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B6688.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ooooh, these look like fun! Thanks Sg Joannah Hansen wrote: > >Admittedly, this came from fiction, but the author is pretty careful about her research - I *think* I read, in passing, that the chariot team supporters did show their support by wearing their their teams' colours, at least at the races. The books are by Lindsay Davis, and a great favourite of my husband and I - the series makes Rome circa AD70 come very alive. > >This is the series - > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/series/-/504/ref=pd_sr_ec_ser_b/104-8506690-0966322 > >Joannah > >~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ > > > > >_____________________________________________________________ >Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 22:07:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I37C2C006086 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:07:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I37JQa003448; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:07:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I30JOa048285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:00:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I30BvU007743; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:00:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I3086B007629 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:00:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06940 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:31:41 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:31:40 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives (clip and save so I don't have to keep postingthis!) In-Reply-To: <001301c64a2b$baf586e0$83dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:07:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B7967.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > To save re-posting this info is there any way we can add the archives > address to the info that's attached to the bottom of every email? If you go to the web page listed there already, you'll find directions on getting to Eric's archive. This could be updated to include the two more recent post-by-post archives (gmane and mail-archive), but still, given the number of times people ask, it's obvious they aren't following the existing link that's already on every message. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 22:18:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I3IGro006422 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:18:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I3IO0w006979; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:18:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I3G2vO049922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:16:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I3G1P1017886; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:16:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I3Fv7x017791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:15:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FKRv3-00074e-KU; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:15:57 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:15:57 -0500 Message-ID: <20060317221557.pjpwqq7ajjswkc08@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:15:57 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives (clip and save so I don't have to keep postingthis!) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:18:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B7C00.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Robin Netherton : > > On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > >> To save re-posting this info is there any way we can add the archives >> address to the info that's attached to the bottom of every email? > > If you go to the web page listed there already, you'll find directions on > getting to Eric's archive. This could be updated to include the two more > recent post-by-post archives (gmane and mail-archive), but still, given > the number of times people ask, it's obvious they aren't following the > existing link that's already on every message. I may be just having a "clueless Day," but there's nothing inherent about the link at the bottom of each message > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume that in any way indicates that you can find archives there. I know that they're there, because I'm an obsessive link follower ..... Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 22:30:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I3URnL006958 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:30:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I3Sar2010204; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:30:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I3RtsW051392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:27:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I3RsZu025501; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:27:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I3Rpwi025465 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:27:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.30] (acty1030.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.30]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6F75C45B for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:27:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <441B7E2E.5010804@dandy.net> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:27:42 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:30:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B7E64.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi. From my view there aren't any closures, just a cuff. On some versions of doublets, though, there were buttoned closures, though, with the pose shown, you would see them. Cheers, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 22:37:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I3b1Ml007224 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:37:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I3b8Cm012768; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:37:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I3ak4H052405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:36:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I3aitC031081; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:36:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I3afF1031026 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:36:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07226 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:08:19 -0600 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:08:17 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Archives (clip and save so I don't have to keep postingthis!) In-Reply-To: <20060317221557.pjpwqq7ajjswkc08@www.goldsword.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:37:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B8065.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Fri, 17 Mar 2006, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > that in any way indicates that you can find archives there. I know that > they're there, because I'm an obsessive link follower ..... Well, it does say "listinfo." That would logically be the first place to look for information about the list. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 23:16:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I4Go33008672 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:16:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I4GrvN023934; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:16:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I4GDRF055404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I4GAlj055490; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:16:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I4G70S055442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:16:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:15626 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FKSrP-0005am-O9 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:16:16 -0600 Message-ID: <04f101c64a42$ac9fab40$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com> <8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: German water--attn dyers Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:16:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:16:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B89B5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: << I read an article once about how Europeans are always quick to adopt new stuff for their laundry but Americans are more reluctant to buy new products. Could it be something about the detergent she's using?>> You know, this might be it--I'll ask her about it! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 17 23:55:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I4tZ6w010412 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:55:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I4tgE7002972; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:55:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I4tJxC058853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:55:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I4tGoj079720; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:55:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I4tBSW079675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:55:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:16350 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FKTTG-0008Nt-EN for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:55:23 -0600 Message-ID: <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com><8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com> <04f101c64a42$ac9fab40$e100a8c0@compaqub> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:55:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Art Hysteria X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:55:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441B92CE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of Thomas More's Family: http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 02:54:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I7sNvg027273 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:54:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2I7sRbc020939; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:54:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I7rs3X079645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:53:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I7rowj098787; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:53:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2I7rlwB098758 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:53:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm25.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14BF93FF3D for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:53:47 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060317235346.1CD5631@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:53:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Glove pic X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EG7yL/Zw9IAEAAAAB,e913d93229d9c65272067ccfcb1dbec9 X-Originating-Ip: [203.27.62.92] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:54:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441BBCB3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO --- caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca wrote: That is exactly what I plan on using. I purchased some white vintage kid gloves and will tack on the wrist decoration with russet and olive ribbons. I currently have it in a garment weight leather, but....it's coming off rather heavy looking and totally overpowering the delicacy of the kid and the silk ribbons. I have also lined the leather with an orange/red shot silk to make the slashes pop. It looks good, but again, I need to lighten the leather up. I have some paper thin sueded leather in white that might work. I'm just reluctant to cut into it as it had other plans to be corset binding. I'll see what I can come up with. I wonder if I could just do it with some white taffeta and the silk ribbons instead? That would match the sheen of the kid and the delicacy of the decoration. hmmmm....Must go rummaging for scraps! Kathy Have you tried to find garment/clothing leather? The sort of leather that they make womens leather skirts out of? That leather is usually very thin - not as thin as kid, but certainly finer than most leather from leather shops. It may be worth your while to have a search through your local second-hand clothes store, I know that I have seen cast-off leather clothes ( usually in *tiny* sizes, which I would imagine is why they are *still* in the shop! ) in the second-hand shops here. Or is there a leather clothing manufacturer near you who you could speak to, about maybe buying some offcuts? The orange/red silk lining to show show through the slashes sounds gorgeous! You are going to show us pictures of the end result, right? :-> Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 05:55:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IAt2EJ028739 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:55:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IAt9Sh005984; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:55:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IArw03016416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 03:53:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IArmZO011675; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 03:53:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IArixZ011621 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 03:53:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2473e.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.62]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7AD12A5000E for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:53:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004a01c64a7a$3f893520$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:53:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] great coat X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:55:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441BE70D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I asked on 18th century list. They answered that it very well could have ben a redingote wich was very fashionable at this time. Redingote was an open robe with collar and long sleaves. And it could be the equivalent to a mans great coat. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 08:43:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IDhkdX000980 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:43:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IDhrd5021801; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:43:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IDhY5E030628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:43:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IDhNJ3022433; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:43:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IDhJ1x022401 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:43:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m32.in-tch.com [216.166.191.32]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2IDYNA09699 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:34:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001001c64a92$ef0b1780$20bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com><8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com><04f101c64a42$ac9fab40$e100a8c0@compaqub> <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:50:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:43:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C0E99.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oh. My. Gaaaaawd. It's an English version of that idiotic novel, _The DaVinci Codes_.....same sort of bad history and art criticism. --Sue, still sputtering through her breakfast oatmeal ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Art Hysteria > Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of Thomas > More's Family: > http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm > Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 10:02:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IF2m08004270 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:02:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IF2tvJ013551; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:02:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IF2EHT038166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:02:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IF27Nh073372; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:02:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxo2.broadbandsupport.net (mxo2.broadbandsupport.net [209.55.3.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IF24V7073292 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@clearviewcatv.net) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (host-67-128-70-97.clearviewcatv.net [67.128.70.97]) by mxo2.broadbandsupport.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C72379762 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:02:49 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: cahuff@mail.clearviewcatv.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200603171900.k2HJ0ksV019472@net.indra.com> References: <200603171900.k2HJ0ksV019472@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:01:53 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: cahuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner-From: cahuff@clearviewcatv.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references now dandelions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:02:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C211F.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi The best explanation I've heard for magenta from the roots was that the roots were used as an assist in getting the color (I think it was from Sue Grierson's book-- I have it somewhere and this cold is making me fuzzy!). Since it seems that many of the dye books use each other as references--esp those from the 70's and 80's-- the myth of magentas/purples from dandelions just keeps on popping up! Much like the plant I've tried many dyebaths some even using the plants with the purple on the leaves and have gotten glorious color--just not purples, not from the flower/leaves/roots or any combination of the same. The only thing I haven't tried is a complex extraction with alcohol or ammonia before dying. If the snows stop, then the cheery flowers will appear and I can try those dyebaths... You can get purples in several, 'period' ways. Just not from the little dandelion. If I'm wrong and you have produced a purple from dandelion---please sent me a picture!!! And the recipe--and forward to the list, I know we'd all like to see it! Ta Carol--eagerly awaiting the return of Spring! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 10:11:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IFBr6O004746 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:11:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IFC17I016417; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:12:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IFBbd2039840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:11:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IFBaaN080384; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:11:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav6.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IFBWHc080337 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:11:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:11:32 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:11:30 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com><8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com><04f101c64a42$ac9fab40$e100a8c0@compaqub> <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:12:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Mar 2006 15:11:32.0643 (UTC) FILETIME=[3DA94730:01C64A9E] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:12:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C2341.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO That article shows how art can tell a tale. It also shows how much can be read into a painting. Through research and testing, inferrences can be drawn from points in the pictures. painters often hid things in their work that only an educated eye could find. Without the documentation of this, it would go unknown and lost to history. Makes me wonder how much is true and how much is made up to fit a given situation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Art Hysteria > Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of Thomas > More's Family: > http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm > Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 10:38:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IFcHlf006043 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:38:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IFcOMW024480; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:38:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IFbwG8042824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IFbvSD098343; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:37:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IFbr4V098306 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:37:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f551f.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.31]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CB4F2FAC047 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:37:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001001c64aa1$f2d84e50$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603171900.k2HJ0ksV019472@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references now dandelions Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:38:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:38:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C2970.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, This made me reminding an article in my textile history club, where one told about dying from and old recipy to blue i think, where they needed urin from a drunk man. Obviously this should make it special blue. What does one not do to get the real thing? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "cahuff" To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 4:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references now dandelions > Hi > The best explanation I've heard for magenta from the roots was that the > roots were used as an assist in getting the color (I think it was from Sue > Grierson's book-- I have it somewhere and this cold is > making me fuzzy!). > > Since it seems that many of the dye books use each other as > references--esp those from the 70's and 80's-- the myth of > magentas/purples from dandelions just keeps on popping up! Much like the > plant > > I've tried many dyebaths some even using the plants with the purple on the > leaves and have gotten glorious color--just not purples, not from the > flower/leaves/roots or any combination of the same. The only thing I > haven't tried is a complex extraction with alcohol or ammonia before > dying. If the snows stop, then the cheery flowers will appear and I can > try those dyebaths... > > You can get purples in several, 'period' ways. Just not from the little > dandelion. If I'm wrong and you have produced a purple from > dandelion---please sent me a picture!!! And the recipe--and forward to the > list, I know we'd all like to see it! > > Ta > Carol--eagerly awaiting the return of Spring! > -- > Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 10:41:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IFfpdT006219 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:41:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IFfw48025737; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:42:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IFfZ79043273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:41:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IFfYI4000906; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:41:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IFfVrp000762 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:41:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.332.2b8c99 (16099) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:41:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID113-3ee3441c2a1ebe; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:41:19 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <20060317235346.1CD5631@resin04.mta.everyone.net> References: <20060317235346.1CD5631@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Message-Id: <5bc2a202dd52487c21669b3944e74b6a@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Glove pic Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:41:18 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:42:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C2A46.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2IFfpdT006219 Status: RO Google for leather You will come up with a few sites that carry thin leather for sale. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 18, 2006, at 2:53 AM, Joannah Hansen wrote: > --- caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca wrote: > > That is exactly what I plan on using. I purchased some > white vintage kid gloves and will tack on the wrist > decoration with russet and olive ribbons. I currently > have it in a garment weight leather, but....it's > coming off rather heavy looking and totally > overpowering the delicacy of the kid and the silk > ribbons. I have also lined the leather with an > orange/red shot silk to make the slashes pop. It looks > good, but again, I need to lighten the leather up. I > have some paper thin sueded leather in white that > might work. I'm just reluctant to cut into it as it > had other plans to be corset binding. I'll see what I > can come up with. I wonder if I could just do it with > some white taffeta and the silk ribbons instead? That > would match the sheen of the kid and the delicacy of > the decoration. hmmmm....Must go rummaging for scraps! > > Kathy > > Have you tried to find garment/clothing leather? The sort of leather > that they make womens leather skirts out of? That leather is usually > very thin - not as thin as kid, but certainly finer than most leather > from leather shops. It may be worth your while to have a search > through your local second-hand clothes store, I know that I have seen > cast-off leather clothes ( usually in *tiny* sizes, which I would > imagine is why they are *still* in the shop! ) in the second-hand > shops here. Or is there a leather clothing manufacturer near you who > you could speak to, about maybe buying some offcuts? > > The orange/red silk lining to show show through the slashes sounds > gorgeous! You are going to show us pictures of the end result, right? > :-> > > Joannah > > ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 10:57:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IFvv3w007617 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:57:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IFw5hO032184; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:58:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IFvliH044567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:57:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IFvjfv011250; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:57:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IFvfRu011201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:57:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:17639 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FKdoG-0002Xe-PH for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:57:45 -0600 Message-ID: <053801c64aa4$b05106f0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com><8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com><04f101c64a42$ac9fab40$e100a8c0@compaqub><04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> <001001c64a92$ef0b1780$20bfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:57:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:58:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C2E0D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO There's one thing that does intrigue me--the idea that this might actually be the original Holbein painting, which is a theory (according to the website, haha) that may have gained some believability among others. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 11:07:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IG7fX1008229 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:07:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IG7mSq003404; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:07:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IG7ITL045649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:07:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IG7EJl017670; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IG7BPf017606 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:07:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-1389.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.85.111]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3401DBE783 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:07:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:07:07 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060318160705.3401DBE783@cardassian.kabelfoon.nl> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:07:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C3054.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, Today I've bought a nice folding fan on an antiek market. I just fell in love with it and had to buy it. But the silk is damaged. Is this reperable? I am thinking of taking the fabric of and put new silk on it. I have just the right silk for it. I am a very practical person and I like to use things instead of letting them gather dust. But in this state it is not usable. I am wondering how others think of what I schould do. And does anyone knows from which period this fan is? Pictures from the fan are on the bottom of the page. http://mystictimes.nl/Gallery/Gallery.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 11:18:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IGITRn008719 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:18:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IGIaLn007155; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:18:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IGIKXR046493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:18:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IGIJGI025255; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:18:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IGIFEY025205 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:18:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f551f.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.31]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 49F39FAC04D for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:18:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000401c64aa7$993c5660$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060318160705.3401DBE783@cardassian.kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:18:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:18:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C32DC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Deredere, Oh congratulations with your find. It is very very nice. I think the fabric as you call it, actually is an old either Blonde lace or Chantilly. The thick silk gimp thread wich makes the pattern, and also the picots in the edges. The painted flower suggests me to think that it could be a Victoraian fan. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted > Hi, > > Today I've bought a nice folding fan on an antiek market. > I just fell in love with it and had to buy it. > But the silk is damaged. > Is this reperable? > > I am thinking of taking the fabric of and put new silk on it. > I have just the right silk for it. > I am a very practical person and I like to use things instead of letting > them gather dust. > But in this state it is not usable. > > I am wondering how others think of what I schould do. > > And does anyone knows from which period this fan is? > > Pictures from the fan are on the bottom of the page. > http://mystictimes.nl/Gallery/Gallery.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 11:27:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IGRISZ009117 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:27:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IGRP2V010085; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:27:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IGR1OL047250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:27:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IGQr3x031589; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:27:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2IGQnts031520 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:26:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 15048 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2006 16:27:21 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:27:21 -0800 Received: from 67.169.138.79 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:27:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> References: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:27:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:27:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C34ED.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > Has anyone run across a reference to some sort of early 19th-century > tool for pinking fabric called an arrache-pièce à dents? (I'm not sure > the accents will come through in the email you receive, but I tried. > The only modern reference I've found to this terms to a tool called a > "gear puller" in English, and this is certainly not that.) If so can > you point me to any more info? As near as I can translate it (from my 4+ years of high school french) the literal translation is a "piece puller with teeth". So your modern reference is very close to the french term. Could it be like the antique pinking tools you can see on EBay where you turn a crank and run the fabric through to pink the edge? Hope that helps... diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 12:38:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IHcXd0012396 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:38:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IHcdnA001685; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:38:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IHbtYL055899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:37:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IHbp4e084235; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:37:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IHbl1l084195 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:37:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.243.156] (acty2156.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.156]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706555C24E for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:37:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <441C455F.7070801@dandy.net> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:37:35 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com><8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com> <04f101c64a42$ac9fab40$e100a8c0@compaqub> <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:38:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C459F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, All. For all of the author's linguistic knowledge, they seem not to know much about the material culture of the period. At that time, clocks did not yet use a pendulum, and the ettiquite of the wearing of the collar of S's had not yet really been established. Look at the portrait of Henry VI in the National Portrait Gallery. His S's on what probably was a leather or woven collar went both ways (I wonder what the author might conjecture that to mean?) More's collar was the proper Tudor one with the portcullisses (Beaufort of Lancaster, true). In the web pic as well as in another more painting, the s's are "backward" But the Holbein pic shown in Davenport shows them right way around, as it were. Proving what? Nothing that I can tell. Mike T. PS a lot of fun reading, though... > Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of > Thomas More's Family: > http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm > Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! > > -E House > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 12:52:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IHqBq7013000 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:52:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IHqJx3006353; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:52:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IHq4Os057249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:52:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IHq2tr094328; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:52:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IHpwb2094290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:52:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-113-219.sonic.net [209.148.113.219]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2IHpmEl000870 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:51:52 -0800 Message-ID: <441C48A4.6090305@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:51:32 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term References: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:52:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C48D3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I think it's something that pinks on two sides of a band of material, but I imagine a punch could be made that way. I was hoping someone on the list had seen one. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Diana Habra wrote: >>Has anyone run across a reference to some sort of early 19th-century >>tool for pinking fabric called an arrache-pièce à dents? (I'm not sure >>the accents will come through in the email you receive, but I tried. >>The only modern reference I've found to this terms to a tool called a >>"gear puller" in English, and this is certainly not that.) If so can >>you point me to any more info? > > > As near as I can translate it (from my 4+ years of high school french) the > literal translation is a "piece puller with teeth". So your modern > reference is very close to the french term. > > Could it be like the antique pinking tools you can see on EBay where you > turn a crank and run the fabric through to pink the edge? > > Hope that helps... > > diana > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > "Become the change you want to see in the world." > --Ghandi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 13:01:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2II16bc013380 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:01:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2II1Dqi009501; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:01:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2II0AHR057812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:00:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2II09pR099868; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:00:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2II03rb099796 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:00:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=o/3MtCWeEOyyP4nqEP9PZkvXrtTUwgMtJ1dwO51MHYoQCEX7Q2gbhy0NO0d6790l; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.128.149] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FKfic-0003ZG-S6 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:00:03 -0500 Message-ID: <016501c64ab5$cbf07fb0$0300a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:00:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd488c1e8ddb107cc21834e52150d5aa6fe129ca3e42375bd564350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.128.149 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:01:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C4AEA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO (snip) > I'm trying to figure out how the wrist closure is constructed. I doubt > it is constructed like a modern suit jacket where the vent is lapped > then sewn in place with false buttonholes. Does it have lots of > buttons or just one? Is it laced? hooked? or completely closed & the > hand just slips in? > > I guess i need a picture of a guy getting dressed, just before he > turns the lace cuffs back. Or perhaps a pic of a guy in a doublet > "shooting his cuffs" the way modern men in suits do. > >>The cut of mens clothes has a doublet from the time! > > True. And she, Norah Waugh, never shows the cuff closure. I'll go > look thru Janet Arnold again. Thanks, Bjarne, you're a pal! > > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com The V&A website has pictures of a white silk suit from about 1635 which shows the button closures on the sleeves. They've also got an embroidered linen doublet on display that clearly shows the buttons on the sleeves. I believe there are closeups of both of these in Historic Costume in Detail, but I don't have the book in front of me. I've also got scans of paintings from the period clearly showing the sleeve details--Hal's The Laughing Cavalier comes to mind right off-hand. They button/unbutton almost to the elbow on the outside of the arm. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 14:19:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IJJWBA017264 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:19:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IJJdaw002799; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:19:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IJIrfP065845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:18:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IJIjWH055419; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:18:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IJIfEQ055313 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:18:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Taniampembroke@aol.com) Received: from Taniampembroke@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.298.78fc007 (15901) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:18:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M20 (mblk-m20.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.53]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID94-3e1d441c5d0a23b; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:18:34 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:18:31 -0500 Message-Id: <8C818D7E0B05A27-1A1C-4471@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> From: taniampembroke@aol.com References: <20060318160705.3401DBE783@cardassian.kabelfoon.nl> Received: from 70.149.86.93 by MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.53) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:18:31 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <20060318160705.3401DBE783@cardassian.kabelfoon.nl> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.53 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:19:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C5D4B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I'ts really hard to tell how bad the damage is by the pictures. If it's not too bad than it can be reinforced. If the damage is too bad, than yes, the sticks can be recovered as long as they're not cracked. If they are, you're better of leaving it as a display. Tania -----Original Message----- From: Deredere Galbraith To: Historical Costume Sent: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:07:07 +0100 Subject: [h-cost] Hand fan silk handpainted Hi, Today I've bought a nice folding fan on an antiek market. I just fell in love with it and had to buy it. But the silk is damaged. Is this reperable? I am thinking of taking the fabric of and put new silk on it. I have just the right silk for it. I am a very practical person and I like to use things instead of letting them gather dust. But in this state it is not usable. I am wondering how others think of what I schould do. And does anyone knows from which period this fan is? Pictures from the fan are on the bottom of the page. http://mystictimes.nl/Gallery/Gallery.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 14:31:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IJUxpg017816 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:30:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IJV7J3006549; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:31:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IJUbxl067580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:30:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IJUX1K064823; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:30:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IJUUIr064779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:30:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2IJUN1B020756 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:30:29 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:34:42 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060316232214.01da5b40@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:31:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C5FFB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have been working my way through the Egan Finds book for nearly two weeks now. I ordered it through David Brown Book Company along with Live and Death aboard the Mary Rose. A mere $100 combined, but for the bookoholic and Tudor addict, they are both "necessary" (yes, I know I'm late on my taxes, but there were these books... You understand, don't you?) Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Suzi Clarke > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 3:24 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books > > > At 20:49 16/03/2006, you wrote: > > >I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March > >2006" and it is still March... > > > >E House wrote: > > > >>Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > >> > >> > >> > >>"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) > >>ISBN: ? > > > Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They > will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 15:03:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IK36UZ019421 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:03:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IK3BBV017031; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:03:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IK2uAt070746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:02:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IK2tvx086952; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:02:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IK2plK086856 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:02:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Taniampembroke@aol.com) Received: from Taniampembroke@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 7.29f.7744d99 (15887) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:02:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M20 (mblk-m20.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.53]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID82-3e0f441c6762382; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:02:42 -0500 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:02:42 -0500 From: taniampembroke@aol.com Message-Id: <8C818DE0CB1A058-1A1C-45BE@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User Received: from 70.149.86.93 by MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.53) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:02:42 -0500 X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.53 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Stomacher X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:03:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C677F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was recently made aware of the stomacher from some previous posts. I make Elizabethan costumes and though it isn't strictly period I am interested in learning more about them. I don't have the luxury of a ladies maid and this invention would definitely make getting dressed by oneself easier. Can anyone explain the workings of these, or possibly have a good picture of how they're attached and how they cover the laces? Thank-you Tania _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 15:10:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IKAvZ1019781 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:10:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IKB537019403; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:11:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IKAq4F071479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:10:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IKApV4092126; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:10:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IKAlut092063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:10:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2IKAhNf004866 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:10:46 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:15:01 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] To Dye for-(was Period Dye color references X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:11:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C6959.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Michael Shamansky Books http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~searchquick~&cart=0 - another Evil Place where you can spend the rent, mortgage, and food money for years to come. I was good and my potential order only came to $800. I quietly exited before they could see the credit cards in my wallet and _force_ me to use them. Although that is where I finally got Moda di Firenze. They have both English Language and non-English Language books. Some books like Moda that are in both languages. I hit the button for English language and got 1751. Some were even in a reasonable price range. I tried checking to see if they were cheaper on Amazon.co.uk (Amazon.com doesn't seem to have things like this and shipping from England really isn't that bad thanks to the fact that Ben Franklyn didn't believe that books should have to pay duty - unlike Europe!). They weren't. If the books were printed around 2000 I could sometimes find them on bookfinder.com Item Number: 44160 Title: The Colourful Past: Origins, Chemistry and Identification of Natural Dyestuffs Author: HOFENK DE GRAAF, JUDITH H Price: $125.00 ISBN: 1873132131 Description: London: Archetype (Riggisberg: Abegg-Stiftung), 2004. 25cm., cloth, 396pp. illus., most in color. Wanda > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 15:29:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IKTDwc020435 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:29:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IKTKF9025254; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:29:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IKSaFS072846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IKSVwj003998; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:28:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IKSSnP003945 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:28:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f551f.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.31]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2199E26283B for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:28:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001f01c64aca$92565b20$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C818DE0CB1A058-1A1C-45BE@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stomacher Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:28:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:29:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C6DA0.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Tania, You are talking about Elizabethan times? Stomachers would be pinned to the bodice´s sides. Pins like dressing pins, and they would be stucked into the bodice, so that they nearly dissapears and gets invissible. As the body is made rather rigid by the pair of bodies (corsets) it wont sloutche, and therefore there is not any risks by using pins. Off cause you have to be aware that no pointed ends sticks out somewhere........... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 9:02 PM Subject: [h-cost] Stomacher >I was recently made aware of the stomacher from some previous posts. I make >Elizabethan costumes and though it isn't strictly period I am interested in >learning more about them. I don't have the luxury of a ladies maid and this >invention would definitely make getting dressed by oneself easier. Can >anyone explain the workings of these, or possibly have a good picture of >how they're attached and how they cover the laces? Thank-you > Tania > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 15:34:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IKYrqO020628 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:34:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IKYwO9027018; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:35:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IKYYRT073330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:34:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IKYXcp007459; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:34:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IKYRn2007323 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:34:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f551f.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.31]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E34DA50035 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:34:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:34:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] to dye for X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:35:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C6EF2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think about a story i heard about poison dyes. In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. Have anybody other heard this? It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk tapestries in this collour. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 15:37:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IKbk4J020708 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:37:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IKbsqd027855; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:37:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IKbUIP073601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:37:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IKbUNr009317; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:37:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IKbQd2009263 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:37:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.173.45.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.173.45]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FKiAv-0001hc-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:37:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com><8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com> <04f101c64a42$ac9fab40$e100a8c0@compaqub> <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:43:07 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:37:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C6FA2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My cookie, please! Of course I enjoyed Josephine Tey's Daughter of Time and was willing to be persuaded that Richard didn't kill the boys, but... This is the first I've heard that the Princes in the Tower didn't even die. This whole exercise, and it's high seriousness, reminds me of a "decoding" of Shakespeare's tomb inscription I once read. VERY tricky and elaborate! Interesting that when the "pun" works in English, it MUST be in English, but when it works in French, it MUST BE in French....oh, how do we know which to choose? Are there really that many "maternity gowns" in the picture? And why is one man's skin "waxy" by comparison instead of calling the other guy's skin "ruddy"?I'm particularly fond of the green design that resembles the veins of large animals.... Ah, well. Some people have a LOT OF TIME on their hands! Thanks for beguiling a bit of mine! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Mar 17, 2006, at 11:55 PM, E House wrote: > Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of > Thomas More's Family: > http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm > Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 16:30:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ILUipQ022398 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:30:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ILUqrC012030; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:30:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ILUFcD080786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:30:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ILU659053865; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:30:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rocky.itasca.net (exim@polly.itasca.net [12.157.198.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ILU1vE053811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:30:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pixel@itasca.net) Received: from pixel (helo=localhost) by itasca.net with local-esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FKisA-00022u-NZ for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:22:06 -0600 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:22:06 -0600 (CST) From: Cat Dancer X-X-Sender: pixel@rocky.itasca.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: period dye color references In-Reply-To: <20060317155336.99205.qmail@web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20060317155336.99205.qmail@web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Itasca-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: pixel@itasca.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:30:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C7C0C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Fri, 17 Mar 2006, Kahlara wrote: > My modern references state thus: > > #1. Dandelion flowers with alum mordant produce a soft yellow, flowers with a tin mordant produce yellow, and the whole plant -roots, leaves and flowers - without mordant produces a magenta color. > > #2. Dandelion flowers with tin mordant produce a golden yellow and dandelion root with an alum mordant a gold-yellow similar to what we call 'goldenrod' paper. (this one has a color chart) > > I spent a few years as a R&D lab technician at a homeopathic manufacturing company. Dandelion is a great foodstuff/supplement. Good for the liver too. My dad used it in salads and for making wine. > > Annette M (looking forward to finally moving into our new house where there is a lot more space for sewing and room to start experimenting with natural dyes) > I actually went back and poked about in the archives on the dye lists--Natural Dyes and SCA Natural Dyes on yahoogroups. What I have found (marked with *) : *Dandelion root added to an orchil dye bath will produce magenta, apparently. (Su Grierson says this in her book _Color Cauldron_) *Dandelions will make magenta *in England and Scotland* but not in the USA, because of the different mineral composition of the soil. I think that's also from the Sue Grierson source. *There is a particular variety of red or red-seeded dandelion that will produce magenta. *"Craft of the Dyer: Colour from Plants and Lichens Karen Casselman 1993 (2nd ed), Dover Publications Information on the kinds of colors you can expect from a wide variety of natural dyestuffs. And she states that she has been unable to get a reddish dye from dandelion roots (is this a myth or has anyone been able to do this?)." *"So the dandy was NOT fushcia but NOT a waste of time either (but what really is when you're experimenting?) On the Spin List, several people confirmed my hunch that the fuschia/pink/purple of dandelion is a myth. I'm pretty sure that N. american dandies are the same as European. I wonder if someone collected them from an unusual soil type somewhere and got pink dye- soil conditions can influence which pigments plants produce, as can amount of direct light vs shade, and even extreme temperatures, but I don't know if it could influence the pigments enough to influence their dyeing potential. ?" *"I've read in numerous books that dandelion roots yield a magenta dye. So far, no one I know has been able to do it. I was told that the magenta-yielding dandys grow in England, not in the US, but I haven't found any English dyers who have been able to get magenta, either." So the evidence for a red dye from dandelions appears to be site-specific and not necessarily substantiated. Something to keep in mind when you're reading a book on natural dyeing, even the modern ones--are the authors merely repeating someone else's dye recipe, or have they actually tried this particular recipe/technique and can reproduce it with a reasonable amount of success? Jenny Dean in Wild Color gives yellows and greens as the colors one can get from dandelions. She does not mention either the use of the roots as a dyestuff or any red color from the plant in any capacity. Jim Liles (The Art and Craft of NAtural Dyeing) doesn't mention dandelions at all. Pixel/Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 16:42:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ILgGq5022717 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:42:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ILgOGr015490; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:42:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ILg5Wh082239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:42:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ILg4Qf061903; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:42:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rocky.itasca.net (exim@polly.itasca.net [12.157.198.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ILg1j8061869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:42:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pixel@itasca.net) Received: from pixel (helo=localhost) by itasca.net with local-esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FKj9K-0002Fn-2j for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:39:50 -0600 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:39:50 -0600 (CST) From: Cat Dancer X-X-Sender: pixel@rocky.itasca.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] to dye for In-Reply-To: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Message-ID: References: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Itasca-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: pixel@itasca.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:42:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C7EC0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think > about a story i heard about poison dyes. > In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green > colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a > very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise that > it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. > Have anybody other heard this? > It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk > tapestries in this collour. > > Bjarne > In his book Jim Liles (The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing) mentions Scheele's green--he references J.N.Napier (A Manual of Dyeing and Dyeing Receipts, 1875) as complaining that Scheele's green poisoned the maker of the dye, the winders of dyed yarn, and the person using the dyed article. He says it was discovered in 1770, and that Napoleon and a number of his servants in exile suffered from arsenic poisoning possibly from the wallpaper. He also mentiones lead chromate yellow, that it is poisonous, and dates it to 1840, but he doesn't say whether it's just the dyestuff itself that is poisonous or if the dyed articles are also poisonous. Pixel/Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 17:45:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IMjrd6024892 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:45:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2IMk0t7001877; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:46:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IMjXG0087574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:45:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IMjR2n004734; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:45:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IMjOsF004676 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:45:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f551f.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.31]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3DAAEA50025 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:45:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001001c64add$a62ca790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] to dye for Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:45:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:46:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C8DA8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, Many thanks for your refferences. So it is true. I wasnt sure if it was just another myth or a true story. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cat Dancer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] to dye for > > On Sat, 18 Mar 2006, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me >> think about a story i heard about poison dyes. >> In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright >> green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it >> became a very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt >> realise that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the >> poison. >> Have anybody other heard this? >> It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk >> tapestries in this collour. >> >> Bjarne >> > > In his book Jim Liles (The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing) mentions > Scheele's green--he references J.N.Napier (A Manual of Dyeing and Dyeing > Receipts, 1875) as complaining that Scheele's green poisoned the maker of > the dye, the winders of dyed yarn, and the person using the dyed article. > > He says it was discovered in 1770, and that Napoleon and a number of his > servants in exile suffered from arsenic poisoning possibly from the > wallpaper. > > He also mentiones lead chromate yellow, that it is poisonous, and dates it > to 1840, but he doesn't say whether it's just the dyestuff itself that is > poisonous or if the dyed articles are also poisonous. > > Pixel/Margaret > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 18:28:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2INSnJ2026109 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:28:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2INSuW4014263; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:28:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2INShv1091464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:28:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2INSd6I033392; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:28:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from linda-4.paradise.net.nz (bm-4a.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2INSZvE033339 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:28:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from geard@verso.org) Received: from smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (tclsnelb1-src-1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.172]) by linda-4.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IWC00KIWJVM1F@linda-4.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:28:34 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ajax.verso.org (203-79-119-132.cable.paradise.net.nz [203.79.119.132]) by smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 336088C197C for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:28:34 +1200 (NZST) Received: from libre.verso.org (libre [192.168.255.21]) by ajax.verso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC5087DDA for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:10:03 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:31:27 +1300 From: Jennifer Geard Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <200603191131.27739.geard@verso.org> Organization: Verso MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:28:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441C97B9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi All, On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:50, Kate M Bunting wrote: > We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to > be that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, > not drawstrings. I'm well behind and paying only another flying visit, but for what _might_ be another take on gathered chemise necklines, have a look at Raphael's "La Donna Velata" (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/raphael/5roma/3/03velata.html - click image for larger version). Are the black bows with aglets functional or purely decorative? Ten years ago I made a version of this assuming the bow laces were functional and that they served to gather the camisa neckline. Using very fine fabric, separate gathering cords for the front, back and shoulders, and the tightest channel I could sew for the laces [*] I managed to make something that captured the "look". It's quite possibly a fake, but if so it's a good enough fake that it made me wonder whether this might have been the way the gathering was achieved, even if it was then secured to a woven band. Cheers, Jennifer [*] The channel was made by finishing the neck edge with a casing the height of the gathering cord + ruffle, threading the gathering cord, tamping the cord down against the seam and then sewing the second seam to separate the channel from the ruffle. I was doing a proof-of-concept garment, so I used a tubular cord (piping cord) to give something to push against and a zipper foot to push against it to get the gathering channel snug to the cord. The combination of the very fine fabric and the firm fit of the laces in their channels means you get a fairly stable, very finely-pleated effect with a small ruffle above the gathering. The four laces mean there are stop-points at the front and back of the armpits, controlling any tendency for the fullness to gravity-feed to the centre front and back. I think this technique is a definite improvement on using a single line of stitching to gather the neck seam, which tends to lead to a very floppy ruffle. I'm in two minds about whether it's an improvement on actually pleating to a band, although to my eye it gives the effect I see in the painting of being more pleat-like than usual gathering but less regimented than actual pleating. It's also _much_ simpler and quicker, and makes the garment adjustable to suit different necklines (or bodies). Discussion welcome. I realise the orthodoxy these days is that necklines of this time weren't gathered, but this variant makes me wonder. And I've now written a footnote longer than my main message. JLG -- Jennifer Geard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 20:38:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J1c8T0030257 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:38:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J1cGEC022142; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:38:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J1biSR001486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:37:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J1bdaJ012133; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:37:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J1baMS012032 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:37:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:37:31 -0800 Message-ID: <441CB5E5.1020003@msn.com> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:37:41 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2006 01:37:31.0458 (UTC) FILETIME=[B075A220:01C64AF5] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] How much I love this list :Was: to dye for X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:38:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441CB608.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I know this may sound kind of sappy, but I really love this list. The topics and tangents we talk about are just wonderful. I am an engineer and I work with some pretty boring people. You guys keep my creative juices alive. Thanks! Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me > think about a story i heard about poison dyes. > In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright > green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it > became a very > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 20:44:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J1in1j030559 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:44:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J1ivut024475; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:44:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J1iYWD001974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:44:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J1iYn1016046; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:44:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J1iWj8016032 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:44:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r28so868460nza for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:44:32 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=rXIcdysVIi2bx2iBJpOb0UcO66juN39tB8nrRyKSEzFY9R70/VxCLWLmRqZ5eTvwhP7arP6NfDwkOF+LYh40abFZtZXF0wOYAB/P1iYO37a/TBub8o06f9oUbbOsoefe1ObP9PWQtDslKRKEsaSfXWCdiipKUswXACZ2y5tzlJ0= Received: by 10.36.38.1 with SMTP id l1mr319121nzl; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.42 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:44:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603181744hddf6c3fu1d595d434ae3f1aa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:44:31 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] to dye for In-Reply-To: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2J1iWj8016032 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:45:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441CB799.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At a Victorian Ball a few years ago someone's daughter wore an actual antique 1860's dress, and all my friends and I could think of was what if it's "arsenic" green! We warned the family not to wear it again just in case.... Katy On 3/18/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think > about a story i heard about poison dyes. > In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green > colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a > very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise > that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. > Have anybody other heard this? > It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk > tapestries in this collour. > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 22:46:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J3kHdA003340 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:46:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J3kOiU027219; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:46:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J3jkfR013949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:45:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J3jcrn096636; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J3jZDK096594 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:45:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2AC63E0550; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:40:28 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Art Hysteria Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:45:35 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c64b07$960f57c0$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <001001c64a92$ef0b1780$20bfa6d8@pavilion> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:46:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441CD410.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO But it is interesting, like those puzzle books of a few years back, which promised a valuable prize for the clever first person to find it. I saw an analysis of how the winner got his prize and it was every bit as convoluted as this painting's analysis. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 5:51 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria Oh. My. Gaaaaawd. It's an English version of that idiotic novel, _The DaVinci Codes_.....same sort of bad history and art criticism. --Sue, still sputtering through her breakfast oatmeal ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Art Hysteria > Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of > Thomas More's Family: > http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm > Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 23:03:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J43iSe004032 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:03:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J43lgI032157; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:03:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J42Llv015618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:02:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J42K53007427; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:02:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.31]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2J42FZw007323 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:02:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 67691 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2006 04:02:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VmX+7V7ulqj8yLhsmo9S1yYuDiJCnHTczbFk+EBsfjgdKMoXpgkR8jiH6ulJlukBLCGurgkIgImu3r4FnjILmOVjuoOriGsqNuYK+vth+BGB89m/J2ZJdUAz+oFQWV4omoT5uJwNaFG7qgFWTprVqt4SORBgSIYoGd2uz49C5K4= ; Message-ID: <20060319040210.67689.qmail@web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.35] by web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:02:10 PST Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:02:10 -0800 (PST) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stomacher --a photo demo To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8C818DE0CB1A058-1A1C-45BE@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:03:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441CD823.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, Did you check out this? http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html this shows the bodice part without the stomacher/placard pinned on. The visual helps alot, I know I had a hard time wrapping my brain around how the gowns went on, as I kept thinking they laced up the back. This photo group made it all clear to me. melody --- taniampembroke@aol.com wrote: > I was recently made aware of the stomacher from some > previous posts. I make Elizabethan costumes and > though it isn't strictly period I am interested in > learning more about them. I don't have the luxury of > a ladies maid and this invention would definitely > make getting dressed by oneself easier. Can anyone > explain the workings of these, or possibly have a > good picture of how they're attached and how they > cover the laces? Thank-you > Tania > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 18 23:08:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J48cmK004178 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:08:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J48Zo2000958; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:08:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J48EQ4016038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:08:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J48Dn7011028; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:08:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52213.mail.yahoo.com (web52213.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2J48Aar010908 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:08:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from edithreardon@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 2107 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2006 04:08:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=E1eF20Q5VxkmGYanLp97040J4lqgIcdAiNooXqhpV3dmAbo22FCRR66sEkT/IvbViFgXNJzo/LgbNYa8Ty1TTFWxiN0ZVUPj5DvDZht/SRHz03v9PR0g0TN7dF31cio2SgUQZADpVK6kIR1IZ/KnYSC9FWqnKVcy82Nl91G0i5I= ; Message-ID: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.216.226.32] by web52213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:08:05 EST Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:08:05 -0500 (EST) From: Edith Reardon Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4419CF51.7030206@ece.gatech.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:08:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441CD944.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Mine said Feb. 21 still no book Brin "Lonnie D. Harvel" wrote: I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: >Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > > >"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) >ISBN: ? > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 00:33:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J5XoHk007517 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:33:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J5XwXU025566; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:34:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J5XR1M023940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:33:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J5XNqA062121; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:33:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J5XKFf062008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:33:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FKqXZ-0000cC-DC; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:33:21 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:33:21 -0500 Message-ID: <20060319003321.3szovtvrtvoksk88@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:33:21 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stomacher --a photo demo References: <20060319040210.67689.qmail@web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060319040210.67689.qmail@web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:34:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441CED46.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Melody Watts : > Hi, > Did you check out this? > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html > > this shows the bodice part without the > stomacher/placard pinned on. > The visual helps alot, I know I had a hard time > wrapping my brain around how the gowns went on, as I > kept thinking they laced up the back. > This photo group made it all clear to me. You know what lightbulb went on for me? She even says so in the essay -- that's *why* gowns were side-back laced -- not because the bodice fit better, but so that you could have an unbroken neckline! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 00:57:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J5vL4w008510 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:57:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2J5vTgR032334; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:57:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J5v96e027123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:57:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J5v8Q2080225; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:57:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J5v3ZB080186 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:57:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jWXePNPsxUszJdGHJWXOTKzM1Lz/VmomvALNrH2gOjpasmpJZGowANJdWBtC/TEe; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.101.41.177] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FKquV-0006SX-BF for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:57:03 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060317080652.14613.qmail@web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20060317080652.14613.qmail@web26509.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:57:08 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478d165aa9320335d71d8b88c06509dec36b82b1a8150f66924350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.101.41.177 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:57:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441CF2C9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Mar 17, 2006, at 12:06 AM, Lena wrote: > > --- Heather Rose Jones > wrote: > >> >> There's an even better example in Walter Map's "De >> Nugis Curialium" >> where he tells a story of a monk whose order >> disdained underpants as >> being too luxurious, so that when he took a tumble >> in the street he >> exposed his ... parts for all and sundry to see. >> Walter gives the >> moral of the story as something roughly equivalent >> to "sometimes >> discretion is the better part of asceticism". >> >> Heather > > Do you know where in De Nugis Curialium this story is? > I've been wanting to follow up this reference for > quite a while, but the book is reference only, and > rather thick, so I can't justify an entire photocopy. In the 1983 Clarendon Press edition edited by M.R. James, I _think_ it's in the section numbered i.25 -- the problem is, the excerpt that I can find in my files at the moment is only bits and pieces with specifically Welsh reference. I think the item I'm remember about the Cisterians and underpants is the one starting at the bottom of page 101 of this edition, but since I'm missing the next page I can't confirm it. I really do need to take the trouble to track down my own copy. The problem is I'm holding out for a bilingual edition with facing page translation like the James edition, and I haven't run across one yet. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 05:12:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JAC1sf031165 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:12:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JAC9pJ021026; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:12:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JABbk2069423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:11:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JABWnm029099; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:11:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JABSO0029048 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:11:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55d1.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.209]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C143262888 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:11:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004401c64b3d$84f93290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060319040210.67689.qmail@web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stomacher --a photo demo Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:11:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 05:12:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D2E79.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I should not have answered as i did, obviously they did it in a different way than in my period. How long time did they have this lacing in the side bodice? Anybody knows? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Watts" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 5:02 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stomacher --a photo demo > Hi, > Did you check out this? > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html > > this shows the bodice part without the > stomacher/placard pinned on. > The visual helps alot, I know I had a hard time > wrapping my brain around how the gowns went on, as I > kept thinking they laced up the back. > This photo group made it all clear to me. > melody > > > --- taniampembroke@aol.com wrote: > >> I was recently made aware of the stomacher from some >> previous posts. I make Elizabethan costumes and >> though it isn't strictly period I am interested in >> learning more about them. I don't have the luxury of >> a ladies maid and this invention would definitely >> make getting dressed by oneself easier. Can anyone >> explain the workings of these, or possibly have a >> good picture of how they're attached and how they >> cover the laces? Thank-you >> Tania >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 09:32:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JEWMQ9014037 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:32:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JEWU4Z032258; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:32:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JEVapC095126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:31:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JEVKGK081460; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:31:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JEVGbm081421 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm25.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2913FFC1 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:31:16 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060319063116.1CED921@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:31:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EHWs0aEqSKQEAAAAB,2e4f0ab5bb8d2b1ea54c369324f59b58 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:32:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D6B7E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > > Thanks Bjarne, but in the context this is definitely a "dress" of some > kind. > One of several references--"We have retired to dress for dinner. Shall I > tell you our dresses? I hear you say "Yes." Mrs. P. wears a brocade; > Cousin > M. her pink Great-Coat, and I my pink." > > Ann Wass > Anne, Have you thought about trying to contact Linda Baumgarten, the author of these books? If anyone would know, she is probably the person. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=s_sf_b_as/104-8506690-0966322 I believe that she is the Curator of Textiles at Colonial Williamsburg. You may even be able to speak to her on the phone. :-) ( see below link ) http://www.history.org/search/contact.cfm Let us know, if you do find out? We're all intrigued now, I'm sure. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 11:15:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGFt1H018925 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:15:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGG2CQ001124; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:16:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGFQ3F018940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:15:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JGFGSV049810; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:15:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ILVRHh055025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:31:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2ILVNNE004246 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:31:27 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] German water--attn dyers Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:35:42 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:16:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D83C2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I lived in Germany for 16 years from 1976 to 1992. Everything that could bleed did. However it was because of the German washer I used, not the water. The washer heated the water inside itself. It really didn't have a Cold setting such as Americans are used to. Since we were there with the US forces, I finally got a Whirlpool washer from someone who had shipped it over and didn't want to ship it back. Hooked it up to the water supply, used American laundry soap (Tide, whatever) and never had the bleeding problem again. I kept the German Washer for when I was trying to get something really clean and white (hot water and chlorine bleach), or to dye fabric in. Regina > I have no idea of the effects of fluoride on dye or how close it > is to the stuff in water but you can get fluoride tablets or drops from > dentists. Water where I live is not fluoridated either but I > don't notice > the kind of bleeding you mention. > > lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 11:20:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGKN9M019151 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:20:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGKURL002723; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:20:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGJdoK019924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:19:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JGJdIL052798; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:19:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J0FTMS062627 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:15:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15546 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:47:09 -0600 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:47:07 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises In-Reply-To: <200603191131.27739.geard@verso.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:20:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D84CE.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Sun, 19 Mar 2006, Jennifer Geard wrote: > Hi All, > > On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:50, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to > > be that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, > > not drawstrings. > > I'm well behind and paying only another flying visit, but for what > _might_ be another take on gathered chemise necklines, have a look at > Raphael's "La Donna Velata" > (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/raphael/5roma/3/03velata.html - > click image for larger version). Are the black bows with aglets > functional or purely decorative? > > Ten years ago I made a version of this assuming the bow laces were > functional and that they served to gather the camisa neckline. Using > very fine fabric, separate gathering cords for the front, back and > shoulders, and the tightest channel I could sew for the laces [*] I > managed to make something that captured the "look". It's quite > possibly a fake, but if so it's a good enough fake that it made me > wonder whether this might have been the way the gathering was > achieved, even if it was then secured to a woven band. I remember this one! We had a great discussion of it in May 2004. I've saved a post I wrote then, which I'll append below. ISTR there were lots of different readings of the image, of which mine is only one. Probably worth going back to the archives to read them all, if this image interests you. --Robin Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:16:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Drawstring chemise On Thu, 20 May 2004, Katie Pleasance wrote: > If you click on the picture enough times you get a *very* enlarged > image that shows much detail. Look at the bow on the right side of the > picture. Look at the left-hand aiglette. Follow that cord back to the > bow. Where the cord intersects the bow is a section of cord jutting to > the left and disappearing into the casing. The casing opening is even > rounded where the round cord enters the casing. To me this is evidence > of a casing with a cord coming out of the casing and the cord > (drawstring) being tied in a bow. The cord is a round cord as would be > used as a drawstring. The bow looks functional rather than decorative. This isn't my period, but I've learned to look for multiple possibilities, and I'm pretty suspicious of drawstrings at this date. I do agree that the bow is functional. And it's also clear that the chemise edge breaks at the point of the bow, so it's discontinuous there. But it's also worth noting that the aiglettes would never pass through the tiny channel that runs along the top edge of the chemise, below the ruffled bit. It's possible that it's a drawstring that was put in first, with the aiglettes added later. But I also wonder if the bow is made of a cord of about five or six inches long, passed through an eyelet on each side of the break at neck edge. Such fastenings (IIRC) appear on Elizabethan shirts, or so I remember reading on this list. It's also worth noting that the bows are placed perfectly for nursing openings, meaning we might be looking at a means of closing slits that run vertically down from the bow points. The fullness of the chemise would keep the slits from opening up in the space between dress and neckline. Not a proof, just another point to consider. > The pleats are a decorative edge trimming the neckline. The pleats > attach to the body of the chemise at the top of the casing. Why do you think that? I would think that such an attachment would add quite a bit of bulk in the seam, which I'm not seeing. The ruffled bit could just as easily be the top part of the chemise fabric whether you're assuming a casing or not, particularly if the casing is made by putting a ribbon along the back of the fabric and stitching top and bottom to form a channel. But I think it still looks more like two lines of stitching holding the chemise pleats in place. Remember also that the artist would paint his impression of the look, meaning we probably won't see individual stitches if they are very small. It also means he may not have had the remotest idea of how the bow was fastened in, but only painted what he saw -- the bow interrupting the line of the chemise top and disappearing into the chemise fabric at each side. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 11:23:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGN62K019315 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:23:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGNE2Y003632; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:23:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGMxLs020936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:22:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JGMwV4055547; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:22:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J0XATA073460 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:33:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D3CE533A38 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:33:08 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:33:12 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200603191131.27739.geard@verso.org> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:23:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D8572.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This picture was presented on another list as "proof" that drawstrings were done. I disagree. Note that the cording is thicker then the area where the cord is allegedly to be going through. The fact that the cording is black is the decorative side and the cord used to close the opening makes it functional. There are a few pictures that show multiple opening in a camicia. http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/PortraitOfALady1530.jpg The La Donna Velata painting does not show to me proof of drawstring. This is not saying that it wasn't done but that the painting is not proof. De -----Original Message----- I'm well behind and paying only another flying visit, but for what _might_ be another take on gathered chemise necklines, have a look at Raphael's "La Donna Velata" (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/raphael/5roma/3/03velata.html - click image for larger version). Are the black bows with aglets functional or purely decorative? (snip) -- Jennifer Geard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 11:25:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGPllF019484 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGPtD7004607; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGPZZq021472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:25:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JGPZpu057209; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:25:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2J1WLcb008762 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 85613 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2006 01:28:49 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=vRFI3BW90EHAT/CbMU9ey3F0XIF45h16eOIhkhkskZPbmwWrNLoDlmNZUYSarr2/ETBWymfhtHwtOg7bV/rNwqYiEg0DhBMBKaHk+fZeggzu45GLJcJcTskMBtnp/cu8GY3AUlsY6/ea5ZrHURncGrt6jO1b9dWq/MXQMYAZuIg= ; Message-ID: <20060319012849.85611.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.35] by web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:28:49 PST Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:28:49 -0800 (PST) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200603191131.27739.geard@verso.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:25:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D8613.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Very interesting, when you click it up to 200% you can see the string end entering the channel/casing, but I was wondering if it was only 2 pieces of string involved.... 1 very long one for the channel across the back of the shoulders to the area above the collar bones and a shorter run directly across the front of the bust? The agilets would prevent the cord from slipping in the channel and getting "lost" Are the black bows with aglets functional or purely decorative? When you say "the 4 laces make stop points," do you mean there are 4 laces total involved or 4 "ends",2 tying ends for each bows ? Have never seen this type of neck treatment and it opens alot of options.... Melody --- Jennifer Geard wrote: > >...another take on gathered chemise necklines, have a > look at Raphael's "La > Donna Velata" > (http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/r/raphael/5roma/3/03velata.html > > - click image for larger version). [*] The four laces > mean there are stop-points > at the front and back of the armpits, controlling > any tendency for the > fullness to gravity-feed to the centre front and > back. > > > Discussion welcome. > JLG > -- > Jennifer Geard > _______________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 11:28:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGSs2n019643 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:28:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGT0fP005652; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:29:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGScDW022088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JGSc92059323; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:28:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J4R3EO022352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:27:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-113-190.sonic.net [209.148.113.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2J4R1Dx005035 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:27:02 -0800 Message-ID: <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:27:06 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:29:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D86CC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO So what's the implication here? That the seller is dishonest or that the publisher's printer is late? Or that media mail is slow? If their printer is late (and book printers usually are late, by some weeks), there is nothing you, a retailer, or in many cases the publisher can do about it. Book printers often work on the schedule most convenient for themselves. If the book was shipped by media mail, which can take a month or more, there is nothing much anyone can do about it after the book has been shipped. The post office also tends to work on the schedule most convenient for themselves. There is also nothing the members of h-costume can do about your order. Why not just ask whoever you ordered the book from--the retailer or the publisher? And what's the rush anyway? You preordered a book knowing it was not immediately available. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Edith Reardon wrote: > Mine said Feb. 21 still no book Brin > > "Lonnie D. Harvel" wrote: > I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" > and it is still March... > > E House wrote: > > >>Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? >> >> >> >>"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) >>ISBN: ? >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > --------------------------------- > Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 11:31:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGVfVl019787 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:31:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGVn3R006712; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:31:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGVX0w022703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:31:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JGVXJe061326; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:31:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2J4TpP2024030 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 21:29:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD1C166202B2; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 04:25:00 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] to dye for Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:30:06 -0800 Message-ID: <001701c64b0d$ccc68c60$0400a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <002b01c64acb$65a53460$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2J4TpP2024030 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:31:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D8775.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO We still have that poison green dye--they soak wood in it to keep it free from termites. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 12:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] to dye for Not a reply to the previous mail about books, but the head`er made me think about a story i heard about poison dyes. In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. Have anybody other heard this? It was a story i heard at Gammel Estrup where they have a room with silk tapestries in this collour. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 11:35:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGZXSw019989 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:35:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGZf9A008012; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:35:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGZTMC023745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:35:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JGZSuR064212; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:35:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from customer-domains.icp-qv1-irony7.iinet.net.au (customer-domains.icp-qv1-irony7.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.128]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JAjIWq048219 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:45:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: from 203-173-7-201.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) ([203.173.7.201]) by customer-domains.icp-qv1-irony7.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 19 Mar 2006 18:45:12 +0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,107,1141574400"; d="scan'208"; a="198565149:sNHT29732668" Message-ID: <441D35B3.4070603@earthlydelights.com.au> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:42:59 +1100 From: A & J Garden Organization: Earthly Delights User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Can you help me find a similar fabric? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:35:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D885D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My daughter loves this fabric at http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/images/C16th/Eliz2005.jpg . Does anyone know where I can find something similar and not too expensive? Thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 11:39:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGdrEt020191 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:39:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JGdxLu009307; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:40:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGcSrY024481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:38:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JGcRvk066442; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:38:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JE0mDT062578 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 07:00:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A409026C; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:00:41 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.148 ([209.131.80.148] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 19 Mar 2006 09:00:38 -0500 Message-ID: <005b01c64b5d$d68acc20$945083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:03:01 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:40:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D895F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The translation sure sound like the tool I got in January...online. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term > > > Has anyone run across a reference to some sort of early 19th-century > > tool for pinking fabric called an arrache-pièce à dents? (I'm not sure > > the accents will come through in the email you receive, but I tried. > > The only modern reference I've found to this terms to a tool called a > > "gear puller" in English, and this is certainly not that.) If so can > > you point me to any more info? > > As near as I can translate it (from my 4+ years of high school french) the > literal translation is a "piece puller with teeth". So your modern > reference is very close to the french term. > > Could it be like the antique pinking tools you can see on EBay where you > turn a crank and run the fabric through to pink the edge? > > Hope that helps... > > diana > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > "Become the change you want to see in the world." > --Ghandi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 12:03:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JH327Z021462 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:03:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JH39A0017201; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:03:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JH2pSA030548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:02:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JH2nkl085520; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:02:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2JH2jh2085402 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:02:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 22818 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 17:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 17:02:39 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060319165821.01ddf918@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:02:39 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Can you help me find a similar fabric? In-Reply-To: <441D35B3.4070603@earthlydelights.com.au> References: <441D35B3.4070603@earthlydelights.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:03:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D8ECE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 10:42 19/03/2006, you wrote: >My daughter loves this fabric at >http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/images/C16th/Eliz2005.jpg . Does anyone >know where I can find something similar and not too expensive? >Thanks, Aylwen Why don't you e-mail Ninya Mikhaila and ask her a) where she got what she used, and b) does she know a source for similar fabrics. She is usually very helpful. Otherwise you could look here http://www.mperkins.com/index.htm but I don't remember him having anything like this. Also type into whatever search engine you use, "Church Fabrics." That usually produces big brocade patterns like this. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 12:18:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JHIaqo022441 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:18:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JHIiLt022333; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:18:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JHIM17034741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:18:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JHIKEn098232; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:18:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav17.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JHIG9a098182 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:18:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:18:16 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:18:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441D35B3.4070603@earthlydelights.com.au> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Can you help me find a similar fabric? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:18:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2006 17:18:16.0285 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C32B8D0:01C64B79] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:18:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D9274.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO There is a merchant on EBay that sell church brocades. His prices are reasonable, and the fabric is yummy. Check fibre contents though, some are highly polyester and may not be suitable for your project. We found some good blends that are nice and heavy and have really good drape for period clothing. Kelly > My daughter loves this fabric at > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/images/C16th/Eliz2005.jpg . Does anyone know > where I can find something similar and not too expensive? > Thanks, Aylwen > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 12:18:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JHIcS6022448 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:18:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JHIkYN013728; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JHIQCa034757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:18:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JHIQNC098318; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:18:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JHIMBR098264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:18:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-126-89.arc15.nas4.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.126.89]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2JHIHDq014181 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:18:22 -0800 Message-ID: <441D925E.6060504@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:18:22 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term References: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <005b01c64b5d$d68acc20$945083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <005b01c64b5d$d68acc20$945083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:18:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D9276.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My reference comes from almost a century earlier than the crank pinker you bought--I checked the picture of yours when you bought it. Do you have a picture of a crank pinker for home use like the one you bought but from the early 19th century/Regency period? All the other references I have from the same document are for an emporte-pièce, that is a punch, for pinking. From context the arrache-pièce à dents is something that pinks both edges of a strip of material, but I do not know whether it is a two-sided punch or some other kind device. Thanks, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > The translation sure sound like the tool I got in January...online. > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 12:31:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JHViM9023369 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:31:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JHVqmd027182; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:31:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JHVaGP037667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:31:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JHVWU5007891; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:31:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JHVUC7007864 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:31:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so1011085nzo for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:31:30 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=qC2PvQQrNwSn221DOtdRK4J/jO7ne238M0cgCRNGmu64F5pIW5fAQfJejmKclwxVCydAQiqdUqZ4+i7gmB5b9lA6hXjcIf5WipNdyQ7xxFnuqwWah7WRaJZuQs2qrJGtdMWujF51ov5OjxFFAU/aYfI+FsS1y+dxcybRGBYmpX8= Received: by 10.64.96.6 with SMTP id t6mr17618qbb; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:31:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:31:30 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2JHVUC7007864 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 17th c doublet cuff closure X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:31:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D9588.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne, Carmen & MikeT, Thanks so much for your design & research help. I think I'm going to go with hidden hooks and a close fitting wrist to mimic the "invisible" closures (presumably hooks) at the CF on the Carvaggio. There's no way my guy will put up with pins at the wrist... tho an interesting piece of trivia! Thanks much for your help, y'all. I'll check out the Stockholm online photos, too. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 12:42:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JHgAHo023942 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:42:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JHgHZ9031024; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:42:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JHg2LR039977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:42:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JHg1JS014877; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:42:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JHfuJk014778 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:41:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.28d.7af0765 (15876) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:41:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID73-3e04441d97db2bf; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:41:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060319165821.01ddf918@127.0.0.1> References: <441D35B3.4070603@earthlydelights.com.au> <6.2.3.4.0.20060319165821.01ddf918@127.0.0.1> Message-Id: <209fd101f6977021410cd1f7ab5cd8ab@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Can you help me find a similar fabric? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:41:45 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:42:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D97F9.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2JHgAHo023942 Status: RO Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 19, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 10:42 19/03/2006, you wrote: >> My daughter loves this fabric at >> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/images/C16th/Eliz2005.jpg . Does anyone >> know where I can find something similar and not too expensive? >> Thanks, Aylwen > > > Why don't you e-mail Ninya Mikhaila and ask her a) where she got what > she used, and b) does she know a source for similar fabrics. She is > usually very helpful. > > Otherwise you could look here http://www.mperkins.com/index.htm but I > don't remember him having anything like this. Also type into whatever > search engine you use, "Church Fabrics." That usually produces big > brocade patterns like this. > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 13:03:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JI3ZER025081 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:03:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JI3gO7005876; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:03:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JI3Opg044548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:03:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JI3NEC029156; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:03:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sark4.cc.gatech.edu (sark4.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.7.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JI3KUF029120 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:03:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldh@ece.gatech.edu) Received: from sark3.cc.gatech.edu (sark3.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.7.22]) by sark4.cc.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2JI3JB9016940 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:03:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.105] (adsl-065-012-177-048.sip.asm.bellsouth.net [65.12.177.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by sark3.cc.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k2JI3InN029881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:03:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <441D9F3A.3000904@ece.gatech.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:13:14 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:03:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D9CFE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Well, I don't think there is any problem. In my case, as I said, the book is not even late. My voucher says it will be mailed when the First Editions come in (expected by the end of March). Given processing and mailing time, I wouldn't be concerned until the end of May comes along and I haven't heard anything. Not worried, just impatient for what looks like a wonderful resource! ;) Lonnie Lavolta Press wrote: > So what's the implication here? That the seller is dishonest or that > the publisher's printer is late? Or that media mail is slow? > > >> >> >> "Lonnie D. Harvel" wrote: I ordered the Tudor >> Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still >> March... >> >> > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 13:09:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JI95rY025316 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:09:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JI9Dci007537; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:09:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JI8hXg046309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:08:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JI8ghE033320; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:08:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JI8cYY033192 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AE1E0280; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:08:30 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 19 Mar 2006 13:08:27 -0500 Message-ID: <002a01c64b80$756099c0$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com><005b01c64b5d$d68acc20$945083d1@rmitchellras> <441D925E.6060504@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:10:50 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:09:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441D9E49.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Do I recall a thread( that might now be in the archives) when the topic of pinking became a lively discussion of just such "punchers" that some of the people who do 18th C and maybe earlier were using...or looking for? I recall that someone had an earlier tool that others were suggesting that maybe someone doing metal crafting might copy for the benefit of the members who might want one. I guess that I had not seen the referent for the tool presently in question. Alas... Mine for the 19th C is proving to be most useful. I sure am glad I spotted it when I did. One that would do both sides at once would be an even Bigger help. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term > My reference comes from almost a century earlier than the crank pinker > you bought--I checked the picture of yours when you bought it. Do you > have a picture of a crank pinker for home use like the one you bought > but from the early 19th century/Regency period? All the other > references I have from the same document are for an emporte-pièce, that > is a punch, for pinking. From context the arrache-pièce à dents is > something that pinks both edges of a strip of material, but I do not > know whether it is a two-sided punch or some other kind device. > > Thanks, > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > The translation sure sound like the tool I got in January...online. > > Kathleen > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 13:23:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JIN7Po025809 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:23:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JINEOW012475; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:23:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JIMjAh049380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:22:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JIMgRl043776; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:22:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JIMdAS043723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:22:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-126-89.arc15.nas4.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.126.89]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2JIMWLM008345 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:22:37 -0800 Message-ID: <441DA168.5010106@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:22:32 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term References: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com><005b01c64b5d$d68acc20$945083d1@rmitchellras> <441D925E.6060504@lavoltapress.com> <002a01c64b80$756099c0$935083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <002a01c64b80$756099c0$935083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:23:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DA193.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My question is largely whether this two-sided pinker _is_ a punch. It is apparently a different tool from the emporte-piece. I don't recall any 18th-century or Regency H-costume member commenting on a two-sided pinker. But if anyone knows of one--and especially if it was called a arrache-pièce à dents--I'd be glad to know. They had the base technology to develop a crank pinker for home use in the early 19th century, but whether they did develop one is another question. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Do I recall a thread( that might now be in the archives) when the topic of > pinking became a lively discussion of just such "punchers" that some of the > people who do 18th C and maybe earlier were using...or looking for? I recall > that someone had an earlier tool that others were suggesting that maybe > someone doing metal crafting might copy for the benefit of the members who > might want one. > I guess that I had not seen the referent for the tool presently in question. > Alas... > Mine for the 19th C is proving to be most useful. I sure am glad I spotted > it when I did. One that would do both sides at once would be an even Bigger > help. > > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lavolta Press" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term > > > >>My reference comes from almost a century earlier than the crank pinker >>you bought--I checked the picture of yours when you bought it. Do you >>have a picture of a crank pinker for home use like the one you bought >>but from the early 19th century/Regency period? All the other >>references I have from the same document are for an emporte-pièce, that >>is a punch, for pinking. From context the arrache-pièce à dents is >>something that pinks both edges of a strip of material, but I do not >>know whether it is a two-sided punch or some other kind device. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Fran >>Lavolta Press >>http://www.lavoltapress.com >> >>Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >> >> >>>The translation sure sound like the tool I got in January...online. >>>Kathleen >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 13:31:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JIViNh026071 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:31:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JIVqbF015441; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:31:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JIUKR0050931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:30:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JIUJx0049108; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:30:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JIUFP0049059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:30:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:22678 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FL2fU-0002KN-14 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:30:20 -0600 Message-ID: <058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:30:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:31:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DA398.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Well, my hurry on the first order is that the book has been released, and was released about 7 weeks ago; the seller claims it should arrive within 2-4 weeks, which means _my_ individual order is 3-5 weeks late. I know others have gotten their copy; this leads me to think that something has gone wrong with _my_ order, and before I call the seller up to ask what's wrong, it seemed reasonable to try to find out if _I'm_ the only one with this problem, or if it's a problem everyone else is having. Since I was already asking about the one book, it seemed like a good time to ask about the other, which--as I stated in my email--I know is NOT late; it's merely eagerly expected. Based on what is on the writers'/publisher's website, mid-March is about the earliest it could have arrived; I posted about this in the hopes that those who lived closest to the mailing point might already have gotten their books, which would have meant that I, here in the US, was within a week or two of receiving my copy. I am not surprised or upset to discover that no one else has gotten their copy; I am merely better informed, having asked and been answered. I realize that this could be a touchy subject for you, but I think you're misinterpreting eager expectation as anger, which is no way involved--not even on the overdue book, and certainly not in this post. My original post was a request for information; not a complaint. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 13:59:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JIxO6C026903 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:59:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JIxW7t024609; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:59:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JIxCdq057357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:59:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JIx9Ge070087; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:59:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JIx6Bn070031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:59:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-120-38.arc15.nas1.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.120.38]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2JIx4Jw015661 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:59:05 -0800 Message-ID: <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:59:03 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com> <058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:59:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DAA14.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > > I realize that this could be a touchy subject for you, Why? I don't sell books before I get them in (although it is a common practice, and there is nothing wrong with it), nor do I get many complaints about late arrivals. I was merely trying to explain how the book industry works--which is about all you can expect from a post to people who know nothing about your order. There is no need to interpret _my_ repsonses as anger. I have nothing to do with either of these books. Fran Lavolta Press htttp://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 14:21:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJLcbP027503 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:21:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJLkf8032140; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:21:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JJLSQB062909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:21:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJLJdd086868; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:21:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJLDd1086715 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:21:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AF220228; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:21:06 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 19 Mar 2006 14:20:54 -0500 Message-ID: <003b01c64b8a$94028140$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com><005b01c64b5d$d68acc20$945083d1@rmitchellras> <441D925E.6060504@lavoltapress.com><002a01c64b80$756099c0$935083d1@rmitchellras> <441DA168.5010106@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:23:16 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:21:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DAF4A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I found it interesting when mine arrived; I compared it to a pre 1850s sewing machine I had the opportunity to study and the thought came to me that once the mechanization of the sewing machine was accomplished , how rapidly some of the same technology would be accommodated to other sewing room tasks. Pinking would certainly have been one of them...Then again, mayhap the technology got applied in the opposite order? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term > My question is largely whether this two-sided pinker _is_ a punch. It > is apparently a different tool from the emporte-piece. I don't recall > any 18th-century or Regency H-costume member commenting on a two-sided > pinker. But if anyone knows of one--and especially if it was called a > arrache-pièce à dents--I'd be glad to know. > > They had the base technology to develop a crank pinker for home use in > the early 19th century, but whether they did develop one is another > question. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > Do I recall a thread( that might now be in the archives) when the topic of > > pinking became a lively discussion of just such "punchers" that some of the > > people who do 18th C and maybe earlier were using...or looking for? I recall > > that someone had an earlier tool that others were suggesting that maybe > > someone doing metal crafting might copy for the benefit of the members who > > might want one. > > I guess that I had not seen the referent for the tool presently in question. > > Alas... > > Mine for the 19th C is proving to be most useful. I sure am glad I spotted > > it when I did. One that would do both sides at once would be an even Bigger > > help. > > > > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lavolta Press" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term > > > > > > > >>My reference comes from almost a century earlier than the crank pinker > >>you bought--I checked the picture of yours when you bought it. Do you > >>have a picture of a crank pinker for home use like the one you bought > >>but from the early 19th century/Regency period? All the other > >>references I have from the same document are for an emporte-pièce, that > >>is a punch, for pinking. From context the arrache-pièce à dents is > >>something that pinks both edges of a strip of material, but I do not > >>know whether it is a two-sided punch or some other kind device. > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>Fran > >>Lavolta Press > >>http://www.lavoltapress.com > >> > >>Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > >> > >> > >>>The translation sure sound like the tool I got in January...online. > >>>Kathleen > >>> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 14:26:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJQJsw027641 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:26:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJQRA3001169; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:26:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JJQ0Qj064109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:26:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJPrqJ090456; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:25:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJPluo090277 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:25:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.349.1cc69d (3657) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:25:34 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <349.1cc69d.314f0a2e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:25:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:26:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DB063.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/19/2006 9:35:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Joannah@sluggy.net writes: Have you thought about trying to contact Linda Baumgarten, the author of these books? If anyone would know, she is probably the person. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=s_sf_b_as/104-8506690 -0966322 I believe that she is the Curator of Textiles at Colonial Williamsburg. You may even be able to speak to her on the phone. :-) ( see below link ) http://www.history.org/search/contact.cfm Let us know, if you do find out? We're all intrigued now, I'm sure. Thanks, yes, I know Linda and have thought about contacting her. (Unfortunately, even she was not able to help clear up one of my other mysteries, which still remains so.) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 14:30:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJUKKo027757 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:30:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJUS5V002753; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:30:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JJU99N065130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:30:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJU8xm093899; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:30:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJU4Zm093823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:30:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-123-24.arc16.nas2.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.123.24]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2JJTwiB020606 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:30:03 -0800 Message-ID: <441DB136.6020201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:29:58 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 19th century French term References: <441B5900.5030306@lavoltapress.com> <1076.67.169.138.79.1142699272.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com><005b01c64b5d$d68acc20$945083d1@rmitchellras> <441D925E.6060504@lavoltapress.com><002a01c64b80$756099c0$935083d1@rmitchellras> <441DA168.5010106@lavoltapress.com> <003b01c64b8a$94028140$935083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <003b01c64b8a$94028140$935083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:30:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DB154.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Just because you have a technology, or the potential for it, does not mean people were using it for that purpose at that time. A cranked pinker in the early 19th-century for home use is a technological possibility, but so is a two-sided punch. I was hoping someone on the list had definite info. Thanks, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: and the thought came to me > that once the mechanization of the sewing machine was accomplished , how > rapidly some of the same technology would be accommodated to other sewing > room tasks. Pinking would certainly have been one of them...Then again, > mayhap the technology got applied in the opposite order? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 14:54:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJsGmM028408 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:54:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJsO6G011156; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:54:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JJrqEB071670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:53:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJroQ6012715; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:53:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sark4.cc.gatech.edu (sark4.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.7.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJrl4E012666 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:53:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ldh@ece.gatech.edu) Received: from sark3.cc.gatech.edu (sark3.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.7.22]) by sark4.cc.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2JJrkB9004910 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:53:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.105] (adsl-065-012-177-048.sip.asm.bellsouth.net [65.12.177.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by sark3.cc.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k2JJrjnN002666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:53:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <441DB91D.5000600@ece.gatech.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:03:41 -0500 From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] painting references needed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:54:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DB6F0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings! I am looking for pointers to online paintings (or woodcuts, etc.) of Polish, Russian, and Eastern European clothing from 13th century through the 16th century. References to books would be OK as well, I can check to see if the library has them or can borrow them. Thanks! Cheers! Lonnie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 14:59:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJxUsw028533 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:59:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JJxcvN012894; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:59:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JJxMWa072870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:59:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJxLsG016635; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:59:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JJxIwQ016476 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:59:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.158]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060319195910.NTHG16513.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:59:10 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060319134948.02672ec0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:59:05 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:59:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DB82A.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO One that I'm REALLY eager to get is the one on the Oseberg textiles. Supposedly it's at the printers and due out sometime in May according to (someone else's reading of) this article: http://www.aftenposten.no/fakta/innsikt/article1248828.ece Unfortunately, I don't read Norwegian and the translation engines are a bit limited., so I'm taking their word for it. Despite extensive searches on the Internet, I cannot find an ISBN or even a title of it though..and I get no replies to emails to the Viking Ship Museum. Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 15:10:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKAR3N028839 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:10:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKAYbM016401; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:10:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JKA7qX074423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:10:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JKA5eI026802; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:10:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JKA2k6026752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:10:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-121-19.arc16.nas1.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.121.19]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2JKA0X0027352 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:10:02 -0800 Message-ID: <441DBA98.1000009@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:10:00 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] books References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060319134948.02672ec0@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20060319134948.02672ec0@mail.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:10:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DBABA.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Fred Struthers of R. L. Shep gets in a lot of foreign publications and is usually interested in hearing about new ones of interest to costumers. In other words, if he thinks some other customers will want it, in addition to you, he may well stock it. Fred's email address is fsbks@mcn.org. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > One that I'm REALLY eager to get is the one on the Oseberg textiles. > Supposedly it's at the printers and due out sometime in May according to _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 15:14:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKEcxa028992 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:14:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKEkRN017572; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:14:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JKENJV074863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:14:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JKENqh029495; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:14:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2JKEHcL029353 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:14:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 62898 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 20:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 20:14:10 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060319201119.01da6738@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:14:10 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Suzi Clarke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor Book update and Fabric source X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:14:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DBBB6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2JKEcxa028992 Status: RO Posted on behalf of My Lady's Wardrobe, who seems unable to post at present. >Hi, > >TUDOR TAILOR BOOK deliveries: >Due to promoting "The Tudor Tailor" this weekend >at "The Original Re-Enactor's Fayre" and also >Kentwell Hall (both in the UK), Ninya was >actually staying with me in Suffolk. My husband >Edmund has regularly commissioned gorgeous >Elizabeth and Tudor suits of clothing from her >and we both know her very well from Kentwell >(Tudor and Elizabethan re-enactment!) > >I can confirm that the advance copies of the >book arrived LAST FRIDAY (and it was touch and >go as to whether they WERE going to arrive that >day!) I now have my copy (which was given to me >in return for helping to pattern test). Edmund >has spirited it away at the moment whilst I am on the internet. > >Anyway, from tomorrow (20th March), Ninya has >the job of packing up all the books that have >been pre-ordered and sending them on their way >to their new homes. The delivery time will now >be at the mercy of the postal service but expect to receive it very soon! > >And I can say it really is a GREAT book! Well worth the wait! > >On a different topic: > >PRINCESS ELIZABETH fabric:- >At 10:42 19/03/2006, you wrote: > >My daughter loves this fabric at > > 2005.jpg>http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/images/C16th/Eliz2005.jpg . Does anyone > >know where I can find something similar and not too expensive? > >Thanks, Aylwen > >Aylwen, > >That fabric WAS VERY expensive. I know where it >came from but I am not authorised to provide the >person's details (and don't know their contact >details anyway, only their name!). I have had >different fabric from this person - it was an >ivory and gold silk damask for my wedding gown. >And that, 6 years ago was £75 (sterling) per >metre! I know the purple one was MUCH more than that. > >However, at the Re-enactor's Fayre this weekend, >there was a stall called "Quartemasterie" (no >website!) who sell silks of all kinds (its >amazing - I didn't succumb this time!). > >They have THAT VERY silk probably because it was >the end of a bolt that someone else purchased >and didn’t use the rest. As such, they tend to >be very much cheaper but their silks are very >good quality. If you like, I can email them with >the picture you gave a link to and ask them to >send me a swatch of it and the cost? I can then >pass it on to you. It’s an odd fabric because >the purple bits are very velvety in feel though it certainly is not velvet. > >Reply on the list as I can read it (I just can’t >POST to it for some bizarre reason) or contact >me privately on myladysw AT myladyswardrobe DOT com > > >Best wishes to all and "hi" to one or two of you >who do know me. And Thanks to Suzi for posting on my behalf. > >Bess >myladyswardrobe.com Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 15:21:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKLDln029183 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:21:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKLLLO019625; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:21:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JKL1Os075634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:21:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JKKx7u034146; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:20:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2JKKspp034008 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:20:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 10002 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2006 20:20:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.175 with login) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 20:20:48 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060319201933.01df3330@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:20:49 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] painting references needed In-Reply-To: <441DB91D.5000600@ece.gatech.edu> References: <441DB91D.5000600@ece.gatech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:21:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DBD41.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 20:03 19/03/2006, you wrote: >Greetings! > >I am looking for pointers to online paintings (or woodcuts, etc.) of >Polish, Russian, and Eastern European clothing from 13th century >through the 16th century. References to books would be OK as well, >I can check to see if the library has them or can borrow them. > >Thanks! Cheers! >Lonnie "Vecellio's Book of Costumes" (or a similar title - not near my books). Dover book. Drawings by a 16th century Italian of costume from the known world. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 15:29:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKTPtR029416 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKTXoF022185; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JKT3Zi076596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:29:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JKSvDf040255; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:28:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JKSsUZ040224 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:28:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55cb.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.203]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FEA1FAC08B for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:28:53 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002901c64b93$cf11be00$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060319134948.02672ec0@mail.alltel.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] books Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:29:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DBF2D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I could perhaps try to find the ISBN number for you, i could search for it in an online library. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth and Bob Matney" To: Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] books > One that I'm REALLY eager to get is the one on the Oseberg textiles. > Supposedly it's at the printers and due out sometime in May according to > (someone else's reading of) this article: > http://www.aftenposten.no/fakta/innsikt/article1248828.ece > > Unfortunately, I don't read Norwegian and the translation engines are a > bit limited., so I'm taking their word for it. Despite extensive searches > on the Internet, I cannot find an ISBN or even a title of it though..and I > get no replies to emails to the Viking Ship Museum. > > Beth Matney > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 15:53:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKrXm6030181 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:53:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JKrfwa031111; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:53:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JKrK21078516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:53:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JKrHFn057046; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:53:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxo5.broadbandsupport.net (mxo5.broadbandsupport.net [209.55.3.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JKrEmM056923 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:53:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@clearviewcatv.net) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (host-67-128-70-97.clearviewcatv.net [67.128.70.97]) by mxo5.broadbandsupport.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B2F8601E0 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:53:05 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: cahuff@mail.clearviewcatv.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200603191902.k2JJ2D08072550@net.indra.com> References: <200603191902.k2JJ2D08072550@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:53:00 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: cahuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner-From: cahuff@clearviewcatv.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Subject: [h-cost] You Bad Bad Bad people! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:53:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DC4D5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 12:02 PM -0700 3/19/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >I don't think there is any problem. In my case, as I said, the book is >not even late. My voucher says it will be mailed when the First Editions >come in (expected by the end of March). Given processing and mailing >time, I wouldn't be concerned until the end of May comes along and I >haven't heard anything. > >Not worried, just impatient for what looks like a wonderful resource! ;) Yeah sure, remind me about this book, while I have a few pennies. Sure and it's in the pre-order window. And soon to be in my house Soooo how long till the next one comes out??? (Tapping one's foot impatiently!) Stuart clothes - Yeah! Ta Carol, who has worked out the scheme for the 17th cent dress, now to sew it up! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 16:01:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JL1ZTd030429 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:01:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JL1hrE001267; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:01:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JL1HSw079296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:01:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JL1FVg062597; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:01:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JL1BNi062533 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:01:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31178) id <01M09VDZB48WAK26IL@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:00:49 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31178) with ESMTP id <01M09VBW2A1W9W0WYB@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:59:08 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:01:01 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises In-reply-to: <20060319012849.85611.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <441DC68D.2060707@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <20060319012849.85611.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:01:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DC6B7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Melody Watts wrote: >Very interesting, when you click it up to 200% you can >see the string end entering the channel/casing, but I >was wondering if it was only 2 pieces of string >involved.... 1 very long one for the channel across >the back of the shoulders to the area above the collar >bones and a shorter run directly across the front of >the bust? The agilets would prevent the cord from >slipping in the channel and getting "lost". > > I remain unconvinced that the black lace enters the channel. I think that what we're looking at is similar to this one: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/p/palma/vecchio/blonde.jpg -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 16:02:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JL2tHD030483 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:02:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JL336I014919; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:03:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JL2ndq079420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:02:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JL2nti063637; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:02:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxo2.broadbandsupport.net (mxo2.broadbandsupport.net [209.55.3.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JL2keR063541 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:02:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@clearviewcatv.net) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (host-67-128-70-97.clearviewcatv.net [67.128.70.97]) by mxo2.broadbandsupport.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B230037AAD2 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:03:31 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: cahuff@mail.clearviewcatv.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200603191902.k2JJ2D08072550@net.indra.com> References: <200603191902.k2JJ2D08072550@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:02:33 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: cahuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner-From: cahuff@clearviewcatv.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 17th cent woolen/worsted cloth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:03:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DC707.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi I have a question for all of you 17th cent mavens...What options are available for the cloth for a woolen or worsted jacket? Was most all of the wool cloth so heavily fulled and napped that the surface was smooth and plush? Was there much use of wool cloth (Middle sort, NOT Highlands, English) that had a distinct pattern other than tartan--either stripes in the warp or a shot--warp one color, weft another in tabby, or a twill made fancy by a different weft color? Or am I just getting to AR and should just start sewing the undies?? Ta Carol--slowly getting a handle on Mid 18th cent only to foolishly jump the Time Stream back a 100 years! Early 1st cent is beginning to look easy! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 16:24:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JLO0U7031008 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:24:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JLO7G9008604; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:24:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JLNoED081208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:23:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JLNnsw077566; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:23:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JLNjcH077471 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:23:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from picmajik@bellsouth.net) Received: from ibm68aec.bellsouth.net ([68.19.26.127]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060319212340.BJDC18683.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm68aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:23:40 -0500 Received: from debra ([68.19.26.127]) by ibm68aec.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060319212340.FJML27439.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@debra> for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:23:40 -0500 From: "Debra" To: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:23:42 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Daughter of Charity cornette X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:24:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DCBF7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I saw a request on another list for instructions on how to make a Daughter of Charity cornette--sometimes called a "butterfly" headdress or "sailboat" headdress. Some folks call it the Flying Nun headdress even though it's not the same as used in the TV series. I know I tried finding instructions a few years ago but came up empty. There isn't a motherhouse here in Atlanta either to contact. I emailed someone in Emmitsburg but they didn't have instructions either at the time. I am looking to recreate a DC habit for a reenactment group here as a Civil-War era nurse but the cornette is the only thing I haven't figured out how to do yet. I do imagine it would require very starched linen over a cap. Anything would help. Thanks, Debra _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 16:35:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JLZGVV031339 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:35:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JLZN80012663; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:35:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JLYsHj082348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:34:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JLYp30085116; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:34:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JLYmLU085084 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:34:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m28.in-tch.com [216.166.191.28]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2JLPoA08609 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:25:51 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com><058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:42:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:35:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DCE9B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ?? Fran, I don't know you in person, but the tone of your notes does sometimes come across as, well, touchy. Don't know if you care or not, but the original poster's not the only one to think that.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books > > > > > I realize that this could be a touchy subject for you, > > Why? I don't sell books before I get them in (although it is a common > practice, and there is nothing wrong with it), nor do I get many > complaints about late arrivals. I was merely trying to explain how the > book industry works--which is about all you can expect from a post to > people who know nothing about your order. There is no need to interpret > _my_ repsonses as anger. I have nothing to do with either of these books. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > htttp://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 16:35:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JLZvkD031359 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:35:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JLa5le029594; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:36:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JLZqb6082420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:35:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JLZq1H085735; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:35:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.134]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2JLZmXw085647 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:35:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bella_lucia_da_verona@yahoo.com.au) Received: (qmail 76054 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2006 21:35:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.au; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4lTZ6I1+S6ALIDR+gvU2xhCl+TD8lURPKo0qCdjge/Di9jY6FowLmKJU0MUDCKZiv8zs+gW1cAakLoZILqv2k68HeuyXGNiy8i5+3Vn47L5t2WsFfEf33j9M6WUr5rdRsTm8I8g8F1qyk+n4k87dRpE41Ht+KX8uNThcHZ5PhWk= ; Message-ID: <20060319213543.76052.qmail@web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.23.152.98] by web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:35:43 EST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:35:43 +1100 (EST) From: Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <441DC68D.2060707@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:36:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DCEC5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Adele de Maisieres wrote: >>>I remain unconvinced that the black lace enters the channel. I think that what we're looking at is similar to this one: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/p/palma/vecchio/blonde.jpg <<<< You beat me to it Adele! :-) Bella --------------------------------- On Yahoo!7 Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 16:39:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JLdlCL031447 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:39:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JLdtre014309; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:39:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JLdXAv083125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:39:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JLdXR6089021; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:39:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JLdUfb088909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FL5cW-0006rk-6d; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:39:28 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:39:28 -0500 Message-ID: <20060319163928.8vej9zduz12gow0k@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:39:28 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Tudor Tailor (was Re: [h-cost] You Bad Bad Bad people! References: <200603191902.k2JJ2D08072550@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:39:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DCFAB.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting cahuff : > At 12:02 PM -0700 3/19/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >> I don't think there is any problem. In my case, as I said, the book is >> not even late. My voucher says it will be mailed when the First Editions >> come in (expected by the end of March). Given processing and mailing >> time, I wouldn't be concerned until the end of May comes along and I >> haven't heard anything. >> I never got a voucher -- but I do have a PayPal recepit. I hope there won't be a problem! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 17:21:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JMLkxR032557 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:21:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JMLrM1029032; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:21:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JMLamR088556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:21:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JMLZnS024354; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:21:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JMLVOf024315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:21:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-124-219.arc15.nas3.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.124.219]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2JMLSP0003373 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:21:30 -0800 Message-ID: <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:21:28 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com><058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com> <003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:21:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DD981.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO No, I don't care if "lots of other people" think I'm not "nice," or whatever. Or whether they "like" me or not. I don't believe in the traditional (and outmoded) female role model of constantly saying, "of course, it's only my opinion," "it's just my two cents," "your mileage may vary," "what does the rest of the group think?" ad nauseum. That's all about conformity. It has nothing to do with kindness, helpfulness, informativeness, or any positive virtue. Those are just continual statements that a woman is not supposed to think independently and that she should always be ready to back down the instant someone disagrees with her or says she's "rude." It has nothing to do with real friendhip. A large percentage of the women playing out that role are constantly trying to stab each other in the back just under the line of what "the group"--whichever group it is--will openly complain about. Or getting together to gang up on each other, because if you've got enough people on your side, apparently it's OK to be as nasty as you want. Men, on the other hand, do not have to apologize every time they make a statement. They just do it. If more women felt OK about saying what they thought and doing what they wanted, maybe they'd stop trying to get everyone else to conform and lead more productive lives themselves. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Sue Clemenger wrote: > ?? > Fran, I don't know you in person, but the tone of your notes does sometimes > come across as, well, touchy. Don't know if you care or not, but the > original poster's not the only one to think that.... > --Sue > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 17:29:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JMTTeP000332 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:29:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JMTbV8031349; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:29:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JMTIPh089203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JMTG2r029379; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JMTCH7029286 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.230]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060319222906.RDDG16513.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:29:06 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060319162124.0268c180@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:29:02 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] books In-Reply-To: <200603192137.k2JLbaf9087195@net.indra.com> References: <200603192137.k2JLbaf9087195@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:29:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DDB52.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks Fran. I'll give them a try. Beth >Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 12:10:00 -0800 > >Fred Struthers of R. L. Shep gets in a lot of foreign publications and >is usually interested in hearing about new ones of interest to >costumers. In other words, if he thinks some other customers will want >it, in addition to you, he may well stock it. Fred's email address is >fsbks@mcn.org. > >Fran >Lavolta Press _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 17:29:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JMTa31000336 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:29:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JMTixM020971; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:29:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JMTTLv089213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JMTSgX029533; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JMTNE4029395 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:29:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.230]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060319222917.UFBQ27467.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:29:17 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060319162320.02691c30@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:29:13 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] books In-Reply-To: <200603192137.k2JLbaf9087195@net.indra.com> References: <200603192137.k2JLbaf9087195@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:29:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DDB59.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks, Bjarne. I would really appreciate any information that you could find on this book! As the book is not out yet, I tried to find a "forthcoming publications" for Univ. of Oslo, but was not successful. Beth >Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:29:22 +0100 >From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > >Hi, >I could perhaps try to find the ISBN number for you, i could search for it >in an online library. > >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 17:53:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JMrZYR001247 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:53:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2JMrh9i006235; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:53:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JMrDJP091470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:53:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JMr9NF045228; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:53:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JMr6lG045189 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:53:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [66.43.209.43] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 898423345 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:53:04 -0600 Message-ID: <050c01c64ba7$e9914070$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daughter of Charity cornette Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:53:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:53:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441DE0F7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >I saw a request on another list for instructions on how to make a Daughter > of Charity cornette--sometimes called a "butterfly" headdress or > "sailboat" > headdress. Some folks call it the Flying Nun headdress even though it's > not > the same as used in the TV series. > I know I tried finding instructions a few years ago but came up empty. > There > isn't a motherhouse here in Atlanta either to contact. I emailed someone > in > Emmitsburg but they didn't have instructions either at the time. > I am looking to recreate a DC habit for a reenactment group here as a > Civil-War era nurse but the cornette is the only thing I haven't figured > out > how to do yet. I do imagine it would require very starched linen over a > cap. Trying spelling it coronet. :-) I found a resource that might get you started. There is an article here http://www.staugcatholic.org/archives/May-June2004.pdf and a photograph starting on 16. They mention a book title that you might get from an interlibrary loan service. Might try contacting the magazine and/or the author as well. looking through this catalog is fun, http://www.blessings-catalog.com/ but I don't know how much help it will be. Also, they are quitting business, so if you need a Nun doll, hurry! Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 20:06:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K16KfX007520 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:06:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K16Sml016555; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:06:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K15xDf004564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:05:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K15pGH030119; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K15lsq030096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:05:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2K15hpu028259 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:05:47 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] painting references needed Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:10:36 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060319201933.01df3330@127.0.0.1> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:06:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E0014.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Lonnie, Have you gotten the Summer 2005 Complete Anachronist #128 - A Polish Miscellany? Of course that assumes that you are a member of the SCA, and get CA's. If you aren't/don't, it is available from the Stock Clerk https://secure.sca.org/cgi-bin/stockclerk/ca.html Go to page 13 for this particular one. It has a decent Bibliography. I'm cataloguing my books with LibraryThing.com and just put in a little volume I got from Krems in Austria titled: _Tender Meat Under Saddle: Customs of Eating, Drinking and Hospitality among Conquering Hungarians and Nomadic Peoples_ (Available from Poison pen Press at http://www.poisonpenpress.com/cookery.html (not affiliated). Part of a conference organized by the College of Commerce, Catering and Tourism, The Society of Old-Hungarian Culture, and the Department of Medieval and Postmedieval Archeology, Eotvos Lorand University, Budapest (October 10-11, 1996) Those titles might give you places to look. The front cover has an illustration of: The seven chiefs of the Hungarians (detail) J. Thuroczi, Chronica Hungarorum, Burnn 1486. Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Suzi Clarke > Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:21 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] painting references needed > > > At 20:03 19/03/2006, you wrote: > > >Greetings! > > > >I am looking for pointers to online paintings (or woodcuts, etc.) of > >Polish, Russian, and Eastern European clothing from 13th century > >through the 16th century. References to books would be OK as well, > >I can check to see if the library has them or can borrow them. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 20:08:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K18bNh007622 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:08:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K18h1g017286; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:08:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K18RtH004749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K18Qei031619; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:08:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2K18NW3031520 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:08:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 95750 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 01:08:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Ej2UhQUwKW2JKsb4N8//aJFu6vDH2niHJ69+HcF9jpfnj+kz8QAEQisCtZI2CPdfE5AyICEO1QbTnCBVnHOB7N1iLrrodeFVqm8nlJcxaDKdZio8jrpgfLa8QvK+AMFftI812HHBsoH98AlLhvkhW1dn1712T4GpYmmkj/YBSE8= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?70.27.127.33?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.33 with plain) by smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 01:08:18 -0000 Message-ID: <441E0087.5070702@rogers.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:08:23 -0500 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com><058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com> <003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:08:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E009B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings-- > > I don't believe in the traditional (and outmoded) female role model of > constantly saying, "of course, it's only my opinion," "it's just my > two cents," "your mileage may vary," "what does the rest of the group > think?" ad nauseum. > > That's all about conformity. It has nothing to do with kindness, > helpfulness, informativeness, or any positive virtue. Those are just > continual statements that a woman is not supposed to think > independently and that she should always be ready to back down the > instant someone disagrees with her or says she's "rude." I can't say I agree with you that it's about conformity or being female. It *can* be about conformity, but it also can be about leadership. I am a project manager by profession, and I absolutely have to say in team meetings "what does the rest of the group think"? My job is to lead the project--but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about software programming, and I'm going to rely on the experts to tell me if that schedule I'm expecting them to follow is unreasonable. If I don't do that, project fails, no matter how "strong" I am. Sometimes I have to turn around and then say to that expert who told me they could get something done in ten days, "OK, it's the seventh day and you're only 50% done. What's with that?" and hold them to their commitment. I'll agree that women should not just back down because someone disagrees with them or calls them rude. However, I can't agree that being honest about one's opinions or asking for input from others is necessarily a bad trait. It all depends on the way it's done and how. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 21:17:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K2HHix011107 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:17:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K2HPHl007157; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:17:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K2GsoI012010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:16:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K2GpUD074411; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:16:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K2GlAJ074361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:16:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-125-140.arc16.nas3.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.125.140]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2K2GhY1026426 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:16:46 -0800 Message-ID: <441E108B.1000102@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:16:43 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com><058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com> <003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> <441E0087.5070702@rogers.com> In-Reply-To: <441E0087.5070702@rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:17:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E10B5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > I can't say I agree with you that it's about conformity or being > female. It *can* be about conformity, but it also can be about > leadership. I am a project manager by profession, and I absolutely have > to say in team meetings "what does the rest of the group think"? A recreational e-group is not a job/work team meeting. Nor, unlike a work meeting, does it usually exist to perform any specific task or solve any specific problem. Nor do most social situations exist for work purposes. What I am driving at is that women traditionally--though not, BTW, by most employees in any company I've ever worked for, and not nearly as much in the San Francisco area as with people from some other geographic areas I encounter on the net--are expected to express themselves differently from men. Some women seem to feel expected to say almost everything with an implicit apology built in, a continual deference to everyone else, a continual wariness as to whether they're agreeing or disagreeing with anyone whatever about anything whatever. The attitude is that people are always important than facts, ideas, analysis, and any and every criteria above or outside of "belonging to the group." I find it puzzling, because as I said, real friendship is very seldom involved. It's not like most people women are expected to defer to would do anything whatever for them in any time of trouble. Often the relationships they work so hard to maintain have a constant hostile undercurrent. It seems like a useless endeavor. And, most men get through life just fine saying what they think and standing by it. There is no reason why women should have to behave differently. > I'll agree that women should not just back down because someone > disagrees with them or calls them rude. However, I can't agree that > being honest about one's opinions or asking for input from others is > necessarily a bad trait. I think being honest about one's opinions--rather than constantly deferring to others regarding said opinions--is a very positive trait. As for asking for input from others--asking someone who has, or who you believe to have expertise, is not the same thing as constantly making sure you don't ever disagree with anyone about anything, or apologizing every time you do. Most of what I'm talking about has nothing to do with anyone's expertise. Also, the business of a social group allotting people specific slots as anoited experts who are assumed to be _always_ right about their topic, and whom no one ever disagrees with, and some of them even expect everyone to apologize for offering any information about "their" topic even if it is in agreement with them: This is just a facet of what I was talking about above, assuming that "the group" is always more important than ideas, facts, analysis, and everything outside "the group." In other words, it is sensible to ask your plumber for her or his expert opinion on whether all your pipes really need to be replaced. Even though you may or may not follow that advice, because it is also sensible to get estimates from other plumbers and read up on the subject before hiring anyone. Just because an "expert" says something does not mean they are always correct or unbiased. Going through social or work life saying, "I don't want to step on anyone's toes by even discussing this subject, and I don't want to upset anyone by disagreeing, but I think thus and so, but of course your mileage may vary and I'm perfectly willing to retract everything I just said if even a single person disagrees, and if I did happen to disagree with anyone I'm really sorry because I must have hurt their feelings" yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, is just female conformity that achieves no productive end whatever. It all depends on the way it's done and how. > It also depends on where it's done, and for what purpose. Again, a meeting of project members on a work team is not a social e-group. Nor do I usually hear people constantly apologizing for their opinions or stated facts in work situations. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 21:49:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K2nOHo013304 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:49:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K2nWCZ017294; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:49:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K2nF0c015260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:49:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K2nCx7094525; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:49:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K2nAbN094498 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:49:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so932881nzf for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:49:09 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=YXdbeJm2U+rOrEIQXuJR+bfQWb7vBjhZnmvGjk/NdV9hrhZS6kcw6HDyRTbE0RF66/WVNiX11X6CAi0EnvqcGm7Nr9RKo7FWdWEE76GhZBGXnyOrdP8wWJa0TRkUbtNhDB/R0aTvHkzqS4G9H7PGabNqrxwjeMAd34zdaH08l1o= Received: by 10.35.107.20 with SMTP id j20mr1734043pym; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.19.9 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:49:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7d21ac190603191849sef38996n4ba8de5de433a083@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:49:09 -0500 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2K2nAbN094498 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] corded/trapunto doublet question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:49:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E183C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I'm the one who about a month ago asked about possible shrinkage of corded corsets and bodices. Based on answers here I've decided to cut my fencing doublet pieces with an extra 1" all around, just in case. I'm debating whether to assemble the interlining and outerlining pieces separately before cording, or after - given that this is a garment with armholes, I'm leaning towards cord pieces separately and then assemble, but If anyone has any solid arguments for the other way around I'd love to hear them! Thanks in advance, Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 19 22:17:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K3HZKb014920 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:17:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K3Hhc3026111; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:17:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K3HHT6019790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:17:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K3HEj4012197; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:17:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K3HBai012165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:17:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.102] (pool180-134.patriot.net [209.249.180.134]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k2K3GMhB019303 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:17:04 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com><058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqu b> <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com> <003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:14:53 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:17:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E1ED7.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >I don't believe in the traditional (and outmoded) female role model >of constantly saying, "of course, it's only my opinion," "it's just >my two cents," "your mileage may vary," "what does the rest of the >group think?" ad nauseum. Tone is not apparent on a list like this one, so I think it's important to spell out one's opinions and offer citations. Statements like those Fran mentions are sometimes used to emphasize that the writer is not saying "always" or "never". There are plenty of topics in costume research where we can state a general trend, which may have rare exceptions. Or the observation is different in another culture or a few decades earlier/later. It's a soft area of research in many ways, with new information found or new experiments attempted. Some of the statements are a shorthand way of saying "This is my own research/experience and others may find something different. I would be very interested to hear about any examples in XYZ culture for the years __ to __." "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary) covers differences in body size, price ranges, etc. As long as people don't get too much into obscure acronyms, or too use many assumptions so that their meaning is not clear. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 00:40:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K5eg7e022906 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:40:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K5eowS006851; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:40:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K5eC7m037314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:40:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K5e87T004706; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:40:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K5e66w004692 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:40:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from luann_mason@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:40:05 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.32.242.61 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 05:40:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.32.242.61] X-Originating-Email: [luann_mason@msn.com] X-Sender: luann_mason@msn.com From: "LuAnn Mason" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com><058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com><003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:40:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0026.0800 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:40:00 -0800 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 05:40:05.0675 (UTC) FILETIME=[BDDCA7B0:01C64BE0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:40:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E4062.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2K5eg7e022906 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: Lavolta Press To: Historical Costume Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books If more women felt OK about saying what they thought and doing what they wanted, maybe they'd stop trying to get everyone else to conform and lead more productive lives themselves. ****************** You're wrong--it's nothing whatsoever to do with someone's sex. Pontificating boors are pontificating boors regardless of whether they are male or female. LuAnn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 01:09:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K69QSF024252 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:09:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K69Yr6015148; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:09:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K69CKe039724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:09:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K69BNx020798; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:09:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K697DU020761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:09:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-126-4.arc15.nas4.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.126.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2K693Ul029467 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:09:05 -0800 Message-ID: <441E46FF.5010806@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:09:03 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com><058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqu b> <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com> <003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:09:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E471E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > > Tone is not apparent on a list like this one, so I think it's > important to spell out one's opinions and offer citations. You're talking about several different things here. Some people spend way too much effort worrying about "tone." Rational dispute--giving a different opinion, and backing it up with facts and/or analysis--is sensible. It often leads to interesting discussions, sheds new light on many things, etc. Emotionally based dispute--complaining that you just don't like the way someone phrased something, or that you just don't like them personally, is not rational dispute. It does not offer any information, or shed any new light on whatever subject is at hand, or give any real reason why someone disagrees with something. As for citations--Yes, they're a good thing, but an email list is not an academic article or dissertation. This is a recreational list. Not everyone has the time to write a detailed essay every time they want to discuss a topic, nor are their reference works always directly at hand. I'd say if and when people can and want to offer citations, great. But I don't think you can reasonably obligate people to provide them all the time in this context. Statements > like those Fran mentions are sometimes used to emphasize that the writer > is not saying "always" or "never". I don't think statements like "it's just my opinion" etc., are a good way to convey that. There are many other, shorter, and more precise ways to do it. For example: By XXX date, most American families owned a sewing machine. versus: By XXX date, families had a sewing machine, at least that's my opinion, of course you may disagree. > > It's a soft area of research in many ways, with new information > found or new experiments attempted. History is a soft enough science that some data will never be available, and what there is can be interpreted in many different and equally plausible ways. But this is a given. Some of the statements are a > shorthand way of saying "This is my own research/experience and others > may find something different. I would be very interested to hear about > any examples in XYZ culture for the years __ to __." If someone makes a statement of opinion, who else's would it be but their own? If they make a statement of fact, of course it's their own research, either from primary sources or from reading other people's research/secondary sources. And of course someone else may have found out some different facts or give a different opinion; maybe many people. This is a given, and constantly saying so is meaningless. If you have a definite area you're not sure about, or you want to solicit information on a certain topic, it's more meaningful to say, for example: "I got this information from my research on the clothing of middle-class families in New York City, but it is not necessarily true for all areas and social classes. I'm also interested in working-class families in New England, has anyone done any research on them?" Rather than: "Of course this is just my research, someone else may have found out something different, there are always exceptions, I always say never say never." > > "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary) covers differences in body size, > price ranges, etc. As long as people don't get too much into obscure > acronyms, or too use many assumptions so that their meaning is not clear. I think it's better to define what's being qualified: "These corset instructions work best for large busts" rather than: "These corset instructions work great for me, YMMV." Having said all that--I only write to spec if you pay me. And you couldn't possibly pay me enough to use any emoticon, or to say "never say never" or some of the other pat phrases I see. I suppose I can't expect anyone else to write to my specs (as above). But I also have the right to say things the way I think is best. Best, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 02:16:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K7G21A029917 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:16:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K7G887003593; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:16:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K7Fipb045636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:15:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K7FbiA060158; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:15:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from linda-4.paradise.net.nz (bm-4a.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K7FXSd060096 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:15:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from geard@verso.org) Received: from smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (tclsnelb1-src-1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.172]) by linda-4.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IWF00G9X05XZX@linda-4.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:15:34 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ajax.verso.org (203-79-119-132.cable.paradise.net.nz [203.79.119.132]) by smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F26E103CD37 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:15:33 +1200 (NZST) Received: from libre.verso.org (libre [192.168.255.21]) by ajax.verso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9482987F04 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:55:27 +1200 (NZST) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:19:03 +1200 From: Jennifer Geard Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises In-reply-to: <20060319012849.85611.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <200603201919.03534.geard@verso.org> Organization: Verso MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 References: <20060319012849.85611.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:16:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E56B8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:28, Melody Watts wrote: > When you say "the 4 laces make stop points," do you > mean there are 4 laces total involved or 4 "ends",2 > tying ends for each bows ? I made mine with four laces -- front, back and two sides. The stop points are at the 'corners' where the laces meet. However, Adele pointed out http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/p/palma/vecchio/blonde.jpg, which frankly looks like a more plausible explanation. I'll quietly regret the 26,000 (!) messages from this list that I deleted -- mostly unread -- in a recent clean-up, and leave you to your regular discussions. Cheers, Jennifer -- Jennifer Geard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 02:25:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K7PRqA032107 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:25:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K7PZiK006656; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:25:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K7PGdU046276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:25:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K7PFQT065052; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:25:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K7PCk2065019 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:25:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm26.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 965C840122 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:25:11 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060319232511.1CE3E84@resin03.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:25:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:Glove pic X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EHljXa/NNBQEAAAAB,1623e48e240236d551a5fc092a4c646f X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:25:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E58EF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Whoops, sorry, my dumb... I missed somehow that you already have garment leather. I really shouldn't try to answer emails on my tea break. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ > --- caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca wrote: > > That is exactly what I plan on using. I purchased some > white vintage kid gloves and will tack on the wrist > decoration with russet and olive ribbons. I currently > have it in a garment weight leather, but....it's > coming off rather heavy looking and totally > overpowering the delicacy of the kid and the silk > ribbons. _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 04:08:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K98YBq026285 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:08:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K98f7J006031; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:08:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K98GHu053575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:08:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K97XNU023031; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:07:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from linda-2.paradise.net.nz (bm-2a.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K97T6h022969 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:07:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (tclsnelb1-src-1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.172]) by linda-2.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IWF00GFQ5CD3P@linda-2.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:07:25 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-148-189.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.148.189]) by smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2198BCBD919 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:07:24 +1200 (NZST) Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:06:45 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises In-reply-to: <200603201919.03534.geard@verso.org> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <441E70A5.6070100@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <20060319012849.85611.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200603201919.03534.geard@verso.org> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:08:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E7119.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Jennifer Geard wrote: > I made mine with four laces -- front, back and two sides. The stop points are > at the 'corners' where the laces meet. > > However, Adele pointed out > http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/p/palma/vecchio/blonde.jpg, which frankly looks > like a more plausible explanation. I'll quietly regret the 26,000 (!) > messages from this list that I deleted -- mostly unread -- in a recent > clean-up, and leave you to your regular discussions. years' worth of failing to keep up> You do understand, of course, how I hate to disagree with you :-) -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 04:38:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K9cDg2029308 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:38:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K9cL1X014704; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:38:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K9bxxB056824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:37:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K9bvdC040857; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K9brqa040787 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:37:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2K9bk721937.; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:37:47 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:37:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:37:25 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] German water--attn dyers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2K9brqa040787 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:38:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E780D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Washing machines like that are not peculiar to Germany. British machines don't usually have a cold setting either (mine is actually an Italian-made Candy). I don't know about Whirlpool models sold in the UK. Oh, and our water is fluoridated. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> wandap@hevanet.com 18/03/2006 21:35 >>> I lived in Germany for 16 years from 1976 to 1992. Everything that could bleed did. However it was because of the German washer I used, not the water. The washer heated the water inside itself. It really didn't have a Cold setting such as Americans are used to. Since we were there with the US forces, I finally got a Whirlpool washer from someone who had shipped it over and didn't want to ship it back. Hooked it up to the water supply, used American laundry soap (Tide, whatever) and never had the bleeding problem again. I kept the German Washer for when I was trying to get something really clean and white (hot water and chlorine bleach), or to dye fabric in. Regina > I have no idea of the effects of fluoride on dye or how close it > is to the stuff in water but you can get fluoride tablets or drops from > dentists. Water where I live is not fluoridated either but I > don't notice > the kind of bleeding you mention. > > lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 04:47:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K9lkfO030371 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:47:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2K9lsPD017230; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:47:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K9lMOB057847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:47:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K9lKZs046100; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:47:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K9lF0d046010 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:47:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2K9l9722944.; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:47:10 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:47:09 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:46:53 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2K9lF0d046010 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:47:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E7A4A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne, can you explain how 17th century men's linen cuffs (wristbands) were pinned on? I used to wear male 17th century attire when I was younger, but was never able to work out a satisfactory way to get the white cuffs to stay in place. I made them to fasten round my wrist inside the doublet sleeve and then turn back over the sleeve. Did they simply stick a pin in each side of the opening? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 17/03/2006 20:43 >>> The doublets all have 2 piece sleaves. The back seam is not finished, but opened about 5-10 cm. Then they used to (in come cases) turn back the sleave, so that it would make a cuff in itself. But when worn with white linnen cuffs, i suppose they were just pinned together with the cuffs. No buttons, no buttonholes - nothing ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 06:21:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KBL3Z6020737 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:21:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KBLB9C010894; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:21:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KBKW2s066448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:20:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KBKMGR098934; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:20:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav20.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.92]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KBKJ5o098895 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:20:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 03:20:19 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV20.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:20:17 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Daughter of Charity cornette Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:20:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 11:20:19.0085 (UTC) FILETIME=[4533D3D0:01C64C10] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:21:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441E9027.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >From what I know of the habit, all the layers of the headdress would have been starched, including the cap. My Anut is a member of the sisters of Notre Dame and wore the habit until the late 60s, she lost all of her hair because of the starch! Kelly >I saw a request on another list for instructions on how to make a Daughter > of Charity cornette--sometimes called a "butterfly" headdress or > "sailboat" > headdress. Some folks call it the Flying Nun headdress even though it's > not > the same as used in the TV series. > I know I tried finding instructions a few years ago but came up empty. > There > isn't a motherhouse here in Atlanta either to contact. I emailed someone > in > Emmitsburg but they didn't have instructions either at the time. > I am looking to recreate a DC habit for a reenactment group here as a > Civil-War era nurse but the cornette is the only thing I haven't figured > out > how to do yet. I do imagine it would require very starched linen over a > cap. > Anything would help. > Thanks, > Debra > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 08:29:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KDTXIS010104 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:29:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KDTexw019747; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:29:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KDSrET077591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:28:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KDSlJf077501; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KDShiW077423 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:28:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 05:28:38 -0800 Message-ID: <441EAE14.1040208@msn.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:28:52 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stomacher --a photo demo References: <20060319040210.67689.qmail@web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060319040210.67689.qmail@web36614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 13:28:38.0539 (UTC) FILETIME=[326F45B0:01C64C22] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:29:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EAE44.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO If it hasn't been posted already, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/redjane.jpg , this picture clearly shows the attachment on the sitters left side (our right) where the placard is pinned. Also, though Ninya's interpretation clearly works, there is no reason that the under lacing must meet in the middle. If the person is wearing a corset, the lacing can sit well off to the sides. If you look at the woman on the far left and the two women sitting on the floor on the far right you will see gowns where the distance between the lacing sides is well apart and the neckline is below the gown underneath. As can be seen, if worn underneath another gown, or covered by a placard, there will be no unbroken neckline. This is the same method I used in this gown: http://www.saragrace.us/images/Elizabeth/Events/122704/OG2.jpg If you look at the gown "all put together," you cannot see the lacing at all. http://www.saragrace.us/images/Elizabeth/Dress_Practice/full%20ensemble1.jpg My interpretation is that this is how the later stomacher developed. Looking for alternative ways to get in and out of a gown, you can imagine someone switching the lacing to the front; since they are always frugal in fabric use, they don't make the lacing meet in the middle. Then they begin to see how the opening can be used to show off contrasting fabrics, so they sometimes wear the open front without the placard. Someone recognizes the illusion of a slimmer silhouette possible by the unbroken (by lacing) front and the stomacher is born.... Just another alternative..... Sg As my favorite historian said "If you thought of it, they probably thought of it." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 09:02:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KE22PY011282 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:02:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KE2A8H001478; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:02:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KE1duw080235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:01:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KE1aA5098957; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:01:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K6EwUQ024060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:15:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-126-4.arc15.nas4.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.126.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2K6Eu6s030602 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:14:58 -0800 Message-ID: <441E4861.60408@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:14:57 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books References: <20060319040805.2105.qmail@web52213.mail.yahoo.com> <441CDD9A.3000005@lavoltapress.com><058401c64b83$2ae1fc10$e100a8c0@compaqub> <441DA9F7.1080806@lavoltapress.com><003a01c64b9d$f6ae3b00$1cbfa6d8@pavilion> <441DD968.8050105@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:02:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EB5E2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I'm not following your argument. What exactly are you saying about women's roles here, at least middle-class women in modern America? Do you feel that women are now socialized to express themselves exactly the same way as men? Or if there are differences, what do you think they are? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > ****************** > You're wrong--it's nothing whatsoever to do with someone's sex. Pontificating boors are pontificating boors regardless of whether they are male or female. > > LuAnn > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 09:02:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KE2J1Z011287 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:02:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KE2R33029861; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:02:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KE20dm080304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:02:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KE1xXC099267; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:01:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mail.areatech.com [216.106.88.186] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K6kuOE042363 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:47:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E22D636952 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:46:55 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:47:03 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <004401c64b3d$84f93290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE back side lacing was:Stomacher --a photo demo X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:02:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EB5F3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This is not English or a kirtle/corset but back side lacing goes back aways. Sorry I am not well versed with dates. http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/wkclass/wk1.html This is 1580. Note the woman in pink. http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/wkclass/wk12.html De -----Original Message----- Hi, I should not have answered as i did, obviously they did it in a different way than in my period. How long time did they have this lacing in the side bodice? Anybody knows? Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 11:13:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGDZ7l018229 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:13:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGDhqu031640; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:13:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KGCN83017522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KGCG2W018197; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KGCAbW018121 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:12:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5588.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.136]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B1809FAC042 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:12:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <005601c64c39$14ae6c60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:12:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:13:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441ED4B7.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Kate, I have looked at many portraits in my books, to find answer to this. I did find a picture where you see the angle where the cuff ends meet. They are not pinned together, but stands open. I think that the cuffs had a strip of material attached to the actual cuff, wich would sit under the doublet sleave. So i think you have done it correct. But pinns would secure it better, and thinking about how they used pins to attach the standing collars to the bodices and doublets, it would be very likely they did the same witht the cuffs. A few years ago when Nicole visited me when she was having the blue baroque dress, she just came from a museum visit where she had discovered a pin painted in a portrait, where a standing band was pinned to the bodice. I would never have noticed this, if Nicole had not shown me. Pins are good for many things, but i cant profe anything. Bjarne Many of the swedish doublets, have buttonholes at the arm split, but no buttons. Also some have nothing at all but a decoration ribbon or lace, in the arm split. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure > Bjarne, can you explain how 17th century men's linen cuffs (wristbands) > were pinned on? I used to wear male 17th century attire when I was > younger, but was never able to work out a satisfactory way to get the > white cuffs to stay in place. I made them to fasten round my wrist inside > the doublet sleeve and then turn back over the sleeve. Did they simply > stick a pin in each side of the opening? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 17/03/2006 20:43 >>> > The doublets all have 2 piece sleaves. The back seam is not finished, but > opened about 5-10 cm. Then they used to (in come cases) turn back the > sleave, so that it would make a cuff in itself. But when worn with white > linnen cuffs, i suppose they were just pinned together with the cuffs. No > buttons, no buttonholes - nothing > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 11:21:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGLmVS018538 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:21:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGLvX9003699; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:21:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KGKkkL019042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:20:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KGKgEc026712; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:20:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f13.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KGKZB0026564 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:20:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:20:32 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:20:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [137.195.176.11] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <005601c64c39$14ae6c60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:20:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 16:20:32.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[35FF8470:01C64C3A] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:22:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441ED6A5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne wrote: >A few years ago when Nicole visited me when she was having the blue baroque >dress, she just came from a museum visit where she had discovered a pin >painted in a portrait, where a standing band was pinned to the bodice. >I would never have noticed this, if Nicole had not shown me. >Pins are good for many things, but i cant profe anything. > >Bjarne You called? :-) Bjarne and Kate, I should have a photo of the painting and I think I doctored it to point to the pin. After a couple of computer crashes and three house moves I bless the external harddrive that stores 11 years of research data... If the internet is fixed tonight at home I shall rummage, upload and send a link if I can find the pic. Nicole _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 11:50:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGoGRX019662 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:50:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGoMRs018308; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:50:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KGnNS5022897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KGnFI9054441; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:49:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KGn9la054244 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:49:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40737A6496 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:49:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:49:47 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:50:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EDD4E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This is a new pattern for costume shirts. I was wondering if anyone can identify view A (lower right corner with the book) and tell me what time period it's supposed to be from: http://www.simplicity.com/assets/4219/4219.jpg Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 11:54:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGsKo0019823 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:54:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGsTtf020164; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:54:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KGrsgO023558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:53:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KGrsxU058998; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:53:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2KGrm9J058802 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:53:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 10022 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2006 16:53:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=rNLQcp20lteW3z+RCr9QJR02h+ou+TdY0vouadGR8DbI2h1ZvY3FzeqD7rWJgFMNmOCoGk4wA+BnQIPlSgaw5uT/35a8rhBaZ/2+H/K5+gZ142DGJ86A4UhzezJri1Sb8mGSQblfSWkawhkCr/F9CIqGvgc/BQ2URPE/fQTwvfs= ; Message-ID: <20060320165342.10020.qmail@web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:53:42 PST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:53:42 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603200609.k2K69IQh020859@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:54:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EDE45.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sigh...... >Message: 12 >Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 22:09:03 -0800 >From: Lavolta Press >Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books > > Tone is not apparent on a list like this one, so I think it's > important to spell out one's opinions and offer citations. >I think it's better to define what's being qualified: > >"These corset instructions work best for large busts" (Opinions of what is a large bust vary greatly) > >rather than: > >"These corset instructions work great for me, YMMV." > >Having said all that--I only write to spec if you pay me. And you >couldn't possibly pay me enough to use any emoticon, or to say "never >say never" or some of the other pat phrases I see. I suppose I can't >expect anyone else to write to my specs (as above). But I also have the >right to say things the way I think is best. I am glad that you recognize this. It is very much a manner of communicating based on where you came from and how you were raised. For an example, my mother-in-law's use of y'all, constant spewing of malapropisms, and mispronounciation of simple words, i.e. "Lie-berry", "Walmark", drive me up a wall, but I don't take umbrage or try to hold her up to the standards of gramar and speech that I was raised with and still use. It is just where she comes from. In a social group you accept one another's differences with a smile. Communicating in the manner of this list leaves out the standard communication tools we have when speaking with someone in person or even on the phone. They are just words on a screen and not tempered by someone's tone of voice. We all read them differently. Even when communicating in writing with a well known friend or colleague is different than communicating on this list with so many individuals whose personalities we don't really know. The list takes on a conversational tone, without the benefit of heard inflection. Not all of us are technical writers or novelists concerned with the exactly perfect way to express our point. As for using 'in my opinion' to preface a comment - personally, I am no expert, and based on what little research I have done any comments I have are merely an opinion based on that research. I know this. By saying 'in my opinion', I am stating in a short addenda "This is what I think based on what I have learned so far. If anyone has more information I would love to hear it". Then it is up to me to accept any other information tossed my way. It also says "I am not claiming to be an expert". I think this is a generally accepted interpretation of such comments. As for no real friendships and women constantly seeking to stab one another in the back while smiling on the surface - either you grew up in a very snide and catty atmosphere or I grew up in an unusually amiable one. > >Best, > >Fran >Lavolta Press >http://www.lavoltapress.com Annette M --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 11:58:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGwh2n020032 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:58:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KGwpEb022168; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:58:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KGvtxb024136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:57:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KGvn1F062813; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:57:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2KGveiu062583 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:57:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 87137 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 16:57:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 16:57:31 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060320165323.01def140@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:57:34 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 In-Reply-To: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:58:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EDF4B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 16:49 20/03/2006, you wrote: >This is a new pattern for costume shirts. I was wondering if anyone >can identify view A (lower right corner with the book) and tell me >what time period it's supposed to be from: > >http://www.simplicity.com/assets/4219/4219.jpg > > > >Dawn Apparently, here in England, a shirt like this is sold as a "poet" shirt. (Not sure which one this refers to, although I think maybe bottom left - was talking to someone at the weekend about this pattern but as I wasn't planning on buying, didn't register all of the info!) I think as the shirt you refer to has a black "stock" it is likely to be that loose period "Regency" meaning anything from late 18th to mid 1840's, according to some descriptions I've read. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 12:16:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KHGVLg020780 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:16:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KHGdmA030753; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:16:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KHFNHE026792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:15:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KHFJNj080039; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:15:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KHFFP4079851 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:15:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.126]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060320171506.VEIO16513.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:15:06 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060320111237.02668640@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:14:57 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <6277CD5B4CC0294BA5E860050DB10C5839A6AE@sch-mail-07.schibst ed.no> References: <6277CD5B4CC0294BA5E860050DB10C5839A6AE@sch-mail-07.schibsted.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Oseberg textiles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:16:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EE377.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I received this reply from the author of the newspaper article. The book is real!!! Beth At 10:54 AM 3/20/2006, you wrote: >Dear Beth > >The book will be published in May this year, not by a publishing company >but by the museum itself - Kulturhistorisk Museum, Oslo. Title and ISBN >not yet known. I suggest you call Arne Emil Christensen at 004722851900 >and ask him. > >Best regards >Cato Guhnfeldt >AFTENPOSTEN. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 12:34:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KHYaac021544 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:34:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KHYi1V006570; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:34:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KHYGYG029531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:34:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KHYCmI098485; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:34:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KHY2jO098304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:34:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dial-209-148-114-225.sonic.net [209.148.114.225]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2KHXxZf025326 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:34:01 -0800 Message-ID: <441EE787.6060306@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:33:59 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:34:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EE7B4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >Communicating in the manner of this list leaves out the standard >communication tools we have when speaking with someone in person or >even on the phone. They are just words on a screen and not tempered by >someone's tone of voice. So is every written communication, back to the days of clay tablets. Email is not new in that respect. It's just a letter. > As for using 'in my opinion' to preface a comment - personally, I am > no expert, and based on what little research I have done any comments I > have are merely an opinion based on that research. I know this. By > saying 'in my opinion', I am stating in a short addenda "This is what I > think based on what I have learned so far. If anyone has more > information I would love to hear it". Then it is up to me to accept any > other information tossed my way. It also says "I am not claiming to be > an expert". I think this is a generally accepted interpretation of > such comments. People's expertise can, and should, be judged on what they say about any given subject at that given time. Not on whether they explicitly say "I am an expert" or "I am not an expert." Whether the person thinks they are an expert or not is irrelevant, as is whether their friends think so. And of course, in a public group other people are likely to respond to whatever you have said. You don't need to explicitly give them the right to do so. You also don't need to "accept" everything everyone else says in the sense of agreeing with it. >As for no real friendships and women constantly seeking to stab one >another in the back while smiling on the surface - either you grew up >in a very snide and catty atmosphere or I grew up in an unusually >amiable one. I'm not talking about the atmosphere I grew up in, or the people I know "in the flesh" either socially or professionally. For both of which which I am deeply thankful. I'm talking about what I see on the net every day in some e-groups, a social dynamic I've never seen before, at least not at nearly that level. H-costume is much better than most. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 12:41:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KHfX40021828 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:41:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KHffAJ010085; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:41:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KHfBZY030435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:41:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KHfAKJ005005; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:41:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f8.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KHf5Jm004865 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:41:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:41:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:40:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [137.195.176.11] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <441EE787.6060306@lavoltapress.com> From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:40:52 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 17:41:00.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[73A9A570:01C64C45] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:41:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EE955.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Dear List, I used to be very active on this list, years ago, but alas, while I am still making costumes (in particular historical ones) and still love and research the period 1660-1715 most of all, I don't seem to find the time to actively participate in discussions. Besides, most of the interest here seems to be before or after my favourite period and I wouldn't have much of a tuppence to contribute. Anyway, I apologise for this blatant seeking of fellow historical costumers, but I recently moved from Kent to Edinburgh and was hoping, via this list, to find fellow costumers in trhe Edinburgh area? Jean, are you still here? :-) Best wishes to all and sundry Nicole (kipar.org) -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 12:50:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KHofFT022205 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:50:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KHon95014711; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:50:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KHnpR3031862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:50:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KHlA9q009994; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:47:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxo1.broadbandsupport.net (mxo1.broadbandsupport.net [209.55.3.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KHkp4c009654 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:46:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cahuff@clearviewcatv.net) Received: from [192.168.1.4] (host-67-128-70-97.clearviewcatv.net [67.128.70.97]) by mxo1.broadbandsupport.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85B73874FE for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:46:29 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: cahuff@mail.clearviewcatv.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200603201658.k2KGvud8062915@net.indra.com> References: <200603201658.k2KGvud8062915@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:46:27 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: cahuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupport.net-MailScanner-From: cahuff@clearviewcatv.net X-Spam-Status: No Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Simplicity 4219 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:50:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EEB79.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 9:58 AM -0700 3/20/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > >This is a new pattern for costume shirts. I was wondering if anyone >>can identify view A (lower right corner with the book) and tell me >>what time period it's supposed to be from: >> > >http://www.simplicity.com/assets/4219/4219.jpg Middle Romance Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 13:47:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KIlqto024288 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:47:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KIm02B007878; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:48:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KIkuJM041425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:46:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KIkb1P068329; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:46:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KIY44L055358 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:34:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i5so1091476wra for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:33:50 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=XkgjNkX4B1L8K0ML2awCrdAvJJlCWsLM9wwlqAbtPLkhS/ePC2ZAgSCHU3Do3huOYfqt3CYarSyzHfhssGezHNzwUxlfpd0v3gj+FlpcbhEASxOkgmRtMbV67LWB/ZQxBnzfwDB868kQ8IG/xnOQ/xbBlgj4Zx5aDecFM+EMciU= Received: by 10.64.112.8 with SMTP id k8mr100639qbc; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:33:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:33:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:33:49 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2KIY44L055358 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:48:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EF8E0.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >>Bjarne, can you explain how 17th century men's linen cuffs (wristbands) were pinned on? >>Kate Bunting >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 17/03/2006 20:43 >>> >The doublets all have 2 piece sleaves. The back seam is not finished, but >opened about 5-10 cm. Then they used to (in come cases) turn back the >sleave, so that it would make a cuff in itself. But when worn with white >linnen cuffs, i suppose they were just pinned together with the cuffs. No >buttons, no buttonholes - nothing I had thought to whip stitch the cuffs onto the sleeve, then remove at wash time & replace for the next wearing. Himself would certainly have less pins to complain about and I wouldnt have to look at dirty cuffs. No research results here, just practical matters. I'm looking forward to Nicole's pinned cuff picture, tho'. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 13:50:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KIoCCa024384 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:50:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KIoJ6x008958; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:50:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KInduc042029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:49:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KInadF071525; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:49:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from renown.concentric.com (renown.concentric.com [207.155.248.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KInVM9071430 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:49:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: from PURCHASING ([207.67.223.71]) by renown.concentric.com id NAA21764; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:49:27 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <009101c64c4f$01a907e0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> From: "Julie" To: References: <200603171340.k2HDehO2027603@net.indra.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:49:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] this list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:50:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EF96B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Maybe I'm just too used to the Yahoo groups, but does this list have a files, photos & links section? Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 13:56:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KIuLeE024635 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:56:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KIuTSG011635; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:56:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KIuApP042845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KIu26i077263; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:56:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web50215.mail.yahoo.com (web50215.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2KItjOI076900 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:55:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LizzieM@rocketmail.com) Received: (qmail 89337 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2006 18:55:40 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rocketmail.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VEQTKapwzm0jl4XSNA2CchiOh+DtgSlLum26szx17d7UZPmGbMXwut2zTZ8PAgBLS+AkDpPXZX77IQoBsLerICHzn37TPLcw+YJkmqBpKB7AZx1LxNoqc6NRZ/ievHteuYP0kZncwuHx3OQmA6Q93TWtzc7/RmeZW0qYzrNrcj8= ; Message-ID: <20060320185540.89335.qmail@web50215.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.148.43.99] by web50215.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:55:40 PST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: Leslie Mundy To: Historic-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:56:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EFADD.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: [h-cost] to dye for In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. Have anybody other heard this? Yes, there was/is a poison pigment made from arsenic that was used extensively in wallpaper in the 1800's. Here's an article about it: http://www.history-magazine.com/arsenic.html --Leslie Leslie Mundy, DCC Office Hours: M-W-F Noon-5:00 John Carter Brown Library, Box 1894, Brown University Providence, RI Just think... "Somewhere a butterfly, dreaming that it is Chuang Chou, flutters its wings and creates a distant hurricane." http://NewMoon2000.tripod.com/oneway/indexnavigator.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:09:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJ9ChA025161 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:09:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJ9Kfm018058; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:09:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJ8fbq044796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:08:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJ8bhX089774; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJ8WLt089645 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:08:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5588.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.136]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A3DCFAC088 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:08:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:08:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:09:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EFDE0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, That would be an 18th century shirt. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 > This is a new pattern for costume shirts. I was wondering if anyone can > identify view A (lower right corner with the book) and tell me what time > period it's supposed to be from: > > http://www.simplicity.com/assets/4219/4219.jpg > > > > Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:11:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJBFoI025225 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:11:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJBNOa016209; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:11:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJB0GU045093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJAxfu092341; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:10:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJAt5o092231 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:10:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5588.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.136]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BC5B926283F for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:10:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001201c64c52$11d57970$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:11:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:11:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441EFE5B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Cynthia, This would also be a solution they might have done. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure >>>Bjarne, can you explain how 17th century men's linen cuffs > (wristbands) were pinned on? >>>Kate Bunting >>>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 17/03/2006 20:43 >>> >>The doublets all have 2 piece sleaves. The back seam is not finished, but >>opened about 5-10 cm. Then they used to (in come cases) turn back the >>sleave, so that it would make a cuff in itself. But when worn with white >>linnen cuffs, i suppose they were just pinned together with the cuffs. No >>buttons, no buttonholes - nothing > > I had thought to whip stitch the cuffs onto the sleeve, then remove at > wash time & replace for the next wearing. Himself would certainly > have less pins to complain about and I wouldnt have to look at dirty > cuffs. > No research results here, just practical matters. > I'm looking forward to Nicole's pinned cuff picture, tho'. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:18:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJIgWN025539 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:18:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJIo8X022488; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:18:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJIH1e046317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:18:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJIFuI000582; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:18:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJI90q000450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:18:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27657 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FLPtO-0001Yc-AL for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:18:15 -0600 Message-ID: <06fb01c64c53$0690fe80$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060320185540.89335.qmail@web50215.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:18:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:18:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F001A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leslie Mundy" > Yes, there was/is a poison pigment made from arsenic > that was used extensively in wallpaper in the 1800's. This is just scuttlebutt, but I've heard that arsenic in small quantities was used as a cosmetic aid until the early 20thC--apparently small amounts improve the skin and hair's appearance, and make the pupils of one's eyes widen creating the effect of larger eyes. (That last might have been belladonna; going on memory here.) In other words, maybe they were a little more willing to be slowly poisoned by arsenic if it made them look good than we are be in the days of safe(ish) OTC cosmetics. We actually need a small amount of arsenic in our diet for health, anyway, though I expect that these pigments exceeded that amount. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:23:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJNmAF025721 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:23:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJNvEs024866; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:23:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJNTDS047303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:23:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJNJwJ006404; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:23:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from linda-5.paradise.net.nz (bm-5a.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJN5gs006041 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:23:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from geard@verso.org) Received: from smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (tclsnelb1-src-1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.172]) by linda-5.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IWF00LAQXUAON@linda-5.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:22:58 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ajax.verso.org (203-79-119-132.cable.paradise.net.nz [203.79.119.132]) by smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A93D29DD3CA for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:22:58 +1200 (NZST) Received: from libre.verso.org (libre [192.168.255.21]) by ajax.verso.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC43587DDA for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:02:57 +1200 (NZST) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:26:30 +1200 From: Jennifer Geard Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises In-reply-to: <441E70A5.6070100@paradise.net.nz> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <200603210726.30403.geard@verso.org> Organization: Verso MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: KMail/1.7.2 References: <20060319012849.85611.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200603201919.03534.geard@verso.org> <441E70A5.6070100@paradise.net.nz> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:24:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F014D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:06, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > You do understand, of course, how I hate to disagree with you :-) You do understand how highly I value fruitful disagreement... Cheers, Jennifer -- Jennifer Geard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:25:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJPmlq025787 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:25:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJPuA1026311; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:25:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJPI8R047578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:25:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJP6TL008430; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:25:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJP1jC008227 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:25:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12136A6496 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:24:51 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <441F01B3.1070906@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:25:39 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> <000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:25:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F01C4.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Was the same style worn throughout the century? Or is this strictly a later 18th century style? Wondering if it would be appropriate for an early 1700's costume... Dawn Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > That would be an 18th century shirt. > > Bjarne > >> This is a new pattern for costume shirts. I was wondering if anyone >> can identify view A (lower right corner with the book) and tell me >> what time period it's supposed to be from: >> >> http://www.simplicity.com/assets/4219/4219.jpg >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:33:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJWu1j026013 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:32:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJX4w6029974; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:33:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJWPsl048755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:32:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJWJvC015746; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:32:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJWERB015506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:32:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FLQ6t-0000ns-4C; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:32:11 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:32:11 -0500 Message-ID: <20060320143211.cjijqjr85hososgc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:32:11 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] this list References: <200603171340.k2HDehO2027603@net.indra.com> <009101c64c4f$01a907e0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> In-Reply-To: <009101c64c4f$01a907e0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:33:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F0370.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Julie : > Maybe I'm just too used to the Yahoo groups, but does this list have > a files, photos & links section? no, it doesn't. :-( That's one of the good things about yahoo (IMO). I know that there was a photo account set up somewhere for the Christmas Gift thing, but I can't call the URL to mind right now. *sigh* Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:48:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJmcWV026609 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:48:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJmkcH005818; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:48:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJmK7m051152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJm8L1032752; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:48:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJm3tX032522 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:48:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:47:58 -0800 Message-ID: <441F06FD.6080904@msn.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:48:13 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] this list References: <200603171340.k2HDehO2027603@net.indra.com> <009101c64c4f$01a907e0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> In-Reply-To: <009101c64c4f$01a907e0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 19:47:58.0704 (UTC) FILETIME=[308CD700:01C64C57] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:48:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F071E.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Julie, you can post pictures here if you like. You can create a new ablum. I sure wish someone would use it! http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=hcostume The userid is: indra2006 Sg Julie wrote: > Maybe I'm just too used to the Yahoo groups, but does this list have a > files, photos & links section? > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:51:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJp8sa026700 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:51:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJpEAk007144; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:51:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJnwZi051655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:50:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJZPNC019144; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:35:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJZBQC018863 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:35:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5588.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.136]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A65AA50028 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:35:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001d01c64c55$7410ff80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net><000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F01B3.1070906@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:35:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:51:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F07B2.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Dawn, It would be, only difference from start of the century and late is the neck wear. Early 1700 wore a rectangular cravate (necktie with lace in the ends) Mid century they started to wear the stocks wich was closed center back. Is it for a pirate costume? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 > Was the same style worn throughout the century? Or is this strictly a > later 18th century style? Wondering if it would be appropriate for an > early 1700's costume... > > > > Dawn > > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Hi, >> That would be an 18th century shirt. >> >> Bjarne >> > >>> This is a new pattern for costume shirts. I was wondering if anyone can >>> identify view A (lower right corner with the book) and tell me what time >>> period it's supposed to be from: >>> >>> http://www.simplicity.com/assets/4219/4219.jpg >>> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 14:56:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJuvI1026914 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:56:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KJv6E8010156; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:57:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJumvV052741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:56:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJuiqZ041580; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:56:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJuZ4c041311 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:56:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E075A6496 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:56:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <441F0909.3070203@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:56:57 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net><000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F01B3.1070906@reddawn.net> <001d01c64c55$7410ff80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001d01c64c55$7410ff80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:57:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F0912.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi Dawn, > It would be, only difference from start of the century and late is the > neck wear. Early 1700 wore a rectangular cravate (necktie with lace in > the ends) Mid century they started to wear the stocks wich was closed > center back. > Is it for a pirate costume? Pirate? Good heavens, no! Pirating will get you hanged. This, on the other hand, is an honest merchant ship, with private backing from several Lords, and a letter of marque from the crown. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 15:09:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KK9Bwl027294 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:09:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KK9JId016818; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:09:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KK8gn5054336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:08:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KK8d91053171; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:08:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KK8VRA053004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:08:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27794 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FLQg8-0007kp-UF for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:08:37 -0600 Message-ID: <074901c64c5a$0fe6f640$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <050c01c64ba7$e9914070$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:08:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:09:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F0BEF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO A year or so ago, someone mentioned a modern name for a style of chain necklace that looked similar to the longer one K of A wears in this portrait: http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/aragon.html Does anyone remember what that name was? The modern version wasn't exactly like the one in the portrait, but it was definitely similar. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 15:10:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKABd1027354 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:10:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKAKaY028559; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:10:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KKA14D054517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KK9hEg054286; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KK9dFE054100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FLQh7-0004ZG-Gu; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:09:37 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:09:37 -0500 Message-ID: <20060320150937.uyhv1bycgls8wsg0@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:09:37 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net><000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F01B3.1070906@reddawn.net> <001d01c64c55$7410ff80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F0909.3070203@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <441F0909.3070203@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:10:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F0C2C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Dawn : > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Hi Dawn, >> It would be, only difference from start of the century and late is >> the neck wear. Early 1700 wore a rectangular cravate (necktie with >> lace in the ends) Mid century they started to wear the stocks wich >> was closed center back. >> Is it for a pirate costume? > > Pirate? Good heavens, no! Pirating will get you hanged. This, on the > other hand, is an honest merchant ship, with private backing from > several Lords, and a letter of marque from the crown. :) > *giggle* Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 15:12:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKCFiR027432 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:12:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKCN89018490; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:12:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KKCArJ054900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:12:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KKC9hN056559; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:12:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KKC6Dl056409 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:12:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.242.8f5ce82 (3924) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:11:56 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <242.8f5ce82.3150668c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:11:56 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:12:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F0CA7.00B by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/20/2006 2:18:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: Yes, there was/is a poison pigment made from arsenic > that was used extensively in wallpaper in the 1800's. And there were stories from the day, that sound like what we call "urban legend" today, of people wearing garments colored with those pigments and getting deathly ill. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 15:20:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKKhEi027730 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:20:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKKp1E023017; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:20:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KKK2lW056042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:20:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJst46039851; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:54:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJsp4A039595 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:54:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:54:35 -0800 Message-ID: <441F088A.8010909@msn.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:54:50 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 19:54:35.0539 (UTC) FILETIME=[1D150E30:01C64C58] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:20:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F0EA3.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sorry I can't be of help to you, but I sure miss you on this list. I have often wondered what happened to several of you "oldies but goodies" and why you disappeared. Glad it is nothing we did! Good luck in finding a someone nearby. Drop a line to us once in awhile and let us know of your costuming endeavors.... Might not be my time period, but I still love hearing about them! Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 15:45:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKjSJQ028591 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:45:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKjaWW003318; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:45:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KKjFYl059789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:45:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KKj9lA089878; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:45:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2KKj3FI089660 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:45:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 29320 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 20:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 20:44:52 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060320204255.01d8b2f0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:44:55 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <074901c64c5a$0fe6f640$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <050c01c64ba7$e9914070$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> <074901c64c5a$0fe6f640$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cuff closure X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:45:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F1470.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I am sorry if you get this twice, but my mail on this list is very erratic - I have been receiving 8 copies of some mail, and my own mail won't post until hours later - literally - so I don't know if I am repeating myself. >Ladies & Gents, >A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in >Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & >the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing >stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be >seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the >wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped >vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c >menswear. >Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. >Thanks for the help, This might be of interest. I took it at an exhibition of either Franz Hals paintings, or Rembrandt, several years ago. (Hals from the position of the hand!!) http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/img001.jpg Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 15:50:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKoxpC028836 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:50:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKp7kV005914; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:51:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KKoKro060695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:50:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KKoBfw095419; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:50:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KKo4FK095276 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:50:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-72-128-23-84.kc.res.rr.com [72.128.23.84]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2KKo08W025942 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:50:01 -0600 (CST) From: "klh" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:51:14 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <074901c64c5a$0fe6f640$e100a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:51:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F15BB.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It's difficult to see the chain's design clearly in that portrait, but it appears reminiscent of a Byzantine chain link style. Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of E House Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:08 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace A year or so ago, someone mentioned a modern name for a style of chain necklace that looked similar to the longer one K of A wears in this portrait: http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/aragon.html Does anyone remember what that name was? The modern version wasn't exactly like the one in the portrait, but it was definitely similar. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 15:57:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKvpNi029128 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:57:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KKvxk1009164; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:58:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KKuMvm061870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:56:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KKuGJW002405; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KKu4Em002108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:56:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:27866 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FLRQ9-0004x9-Pn for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:56:10 -0600 Message-ID: <075601c64c60$b411bab0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:56:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:58:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F1757.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "klh" > It's difficult to see the chain's design clearly in that portrait, but it > appears reminiscent of a Byzantine chain link style. That's it! Thanks. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 16:43:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KLhcpj031012 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:43:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KLhlcw030993; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:43:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KLhF9r070137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:43:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KLhBgD050785; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:43:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav16.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KLh8UK050624 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:43:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:43:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.61.224 by BAY106-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:42:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.61.224] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603171340.k2HDehO2027603@net.indra.com><009101c64c4f$01a907e0$133c0a0a@PURCHASING> Subject: Re: [h-cost] this list Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:42:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:42:34 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 21:43:02.0873 (UTC) FILETIME=[43C16C90:01C64C67] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:43:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F2213.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2KLhcpj031012 Status: RO I found the original instructions sent out at Christmas: >From this url: http://www.PictureTrail.com/uid4238963 Click on Member Login up in the upper right hand corner of the screen username: hcostume password: indra2006 This will take you to the main member page To upload pictures: Click on Upload Pics Follow the basic instructions...especially on clicking only once on "Upload Pictures Now!" I have been successful in uploading from this page, but you can also download their Photo Editor and Uploader if you want. ______ I've had a couple pictures I wanted to share recently but didn't know if it was still available, Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 17:10:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KMACRJ032381 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:10:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KMAKI1010697; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:10:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KM9iL3076249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:09:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KM9ZfQ080233; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:09:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KM9TCs080102 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:09:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FLSZ3-00089W-6h for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:09:25 +0000 Message-ID: <3+UffMH2eyHEJwvD@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:07:50 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE back side lacing was:Stomacher --a photo demo References: <004401c64b3d$84f93290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:10:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F284D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This pink dress reminded me... a friend is making a Regency style gown, for a party so it doesn't have to be particularly authentic, but neither of us can work out - how/where do they fasten? Some have buttons down the centre back, but most don't seem to have any visible opening. Please, somebody, give us a clue? Jean otsisto wrote >This is not English or a kirtle/corset but back side lacing goes back aways. >Sorry I am not well versed with dates. >http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/wkclass/wk1.html >This is 1580. Note the woman in pink. > >http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/wkclass/wk12.html > >De >-----Original Message----- >Hi, >I should not have answered as i did, obviously they did it in a different >way than in my period. >How long time did they have this lacing in the side bodice? Anybody knows? > >Bjarne > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 17:28:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KMSOt9001131 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:28:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KMSW5C018822; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:28:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KMQZuW079172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:26:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KMQVpB098305; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:26:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KMQQO3098203 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5560.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.96]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DA7C226284B for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:26:22 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c64c6d$5ce781e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <242.8f5ce82.3150668c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:26:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:28:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F2C90.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ah, Many thanks for your fine responses all, how horrible it is! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" > > In a message dated 3/20/2006 2:18:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > formfunc@formfunction.org writes: > > Yes, there was/is a poison pigment made from arsenic >> that was used extensively in wallpaper in the 1800's. > > > > And there were stories from the day, that sound like what we call "urban > legend" today, of people wearing garments colored with those pigments and > getting deathly ill. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 17:33:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KMXo5I001525 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:33:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KMXxdY021263; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:34:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KMXju1080199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:33:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KMXhM1005791; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:33:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KMXdQV005720 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:33:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5560.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.96]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id EF2D9FAC028 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:33:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002601c64c6e$612c13f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004401c64b3d$84f93290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3+UffMH2eyHEJwvD@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE back side lacing was:Stomacher --a photo demo Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:33:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:34:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F2DD7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Jean, Many regency gowns is closed in the front with a bib front. Some are closed center back by drawstring tapes, and pinned. Some have hooks and eyes and some as you say buttons. You can almost do as you think is the best. The front bib closures are a little difficult to explain for me as english is not my native language, but do look in Nancy Bradfields book Costume in Detail, if you have accets to this. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE back side lacing was:Stomacher --a photo demo > This pink dress reminded me... a friend is making a Regency style gown, > for a party so it doesn't have to be particularly authentic, but neither > of us can work out - how/where do they fasten? Some have buttons down the > centre back, but most don't seem to have any visible opening. Please, > somebody, give us a clue? > > Jean > > > otsisto wrote >>This is not English or a kirtle/corset but back side lacing goes back >>aways. >>Sorry I am not well versed with dates. >>http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/wkclass/wk1.html >>This is 1580. Note the woman in pink. >> >>http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/wkclass/wk12.html >> >>De >>-----Original Message----- >>Hi, >>I should not have answered as i did, obviously they did it in a different >>way than in my period. >>How long time did they have this lacing in the side bodice? Anybody knows? >> >>Bjarne >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > -- > Jean Waddie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 17:41:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KMfwFi002112 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:41:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KMg6Cu024562; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:42:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KMfdrS081227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:41:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KMfZpw013369; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:41:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KMfS7r013265 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:41:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5560.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.96]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 861F3FAC03E for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:41:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <004301c64c6f$78d91010$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:41:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:42:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F2FBE.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oh yes that goes for me two!!! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? > Sorry I can't be of help to you, but I sure miss you on this list. I > have often wondered what happened to several of you "oldies but goodies" > and why you disappeared. Glad it is nothing we did! Good luck in > finding a someone nearby. Drop a line to us once in awhile and let us > know of your costuming endeavors.... Might not be my time period, but I > still love hearing about them! > > Sg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:27:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNR5G2008201 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:27:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNRDXG010214; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:27:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNPq5E087324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNPhiB054829; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:25:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNPbSr054643 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:25:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from FyneHats2@aol.com) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.352.338480 (3657) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:25:22 -0500 (EST) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: <352.338480.315093e2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:25:22 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5121 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Theatre Museum in London closing? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:27:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3A51.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO If anyone wants further information, I now have an update, which is a >bit long winded, but will happily forward individually if required. Yes, please send it to me. I visited the Museum two years ago and it was wonderful! Being in costumes and theatre made it doubly interesting. Donna Scarfe fynehats2@aol.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:32:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNWsJx008389 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:32:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNX27Q012529; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:33:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNWdtE088243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:32:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNWc2N061022; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:32:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f25.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNWYSs060971 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:32:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:32:33 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:32:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [83.105.84.119] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <004301c64c6f$78d91010$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:32:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2006 23:32:33.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[9023E040:01C64C76] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:33:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3BAE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you ever so much for your kind words, Bjarne, Saragrace and Jean. :-) I do have a little bit to show, even though I didn't have much time for website updates. That was an understatement, I had no time. Here are some of my latest costumes & evening outfits: http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: "Historical Costume" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:41:47 +0100 > >Oh yes that goes for me two!!! >Bjarne > >----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:54 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? > > >>Sorry I can't be of help to you, but I sure miss you on this list. I have >>often wondered what happened to several of you "oldies but goodies" and >>why you disappeared. Glad it is nothing we did! Good luck in finding a >>someone nearby. Drop a line to us once in awhile and let us know of your >>costuming endeavors.... Might not be my time period, but I still love >>hearing about them! >> >>Sg >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:42:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNg510008638 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:42:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNgDtm016041; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:42:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNfnOq089760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:41:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNfk4L069295; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:41:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KJOseE008088 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:24:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.26]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060320192448.ILNZ18974.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:24:48 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060320131926.0266e640@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:24:42 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [h-cost] Re: Oseberg textiles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:42:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3DD5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO OK, here's the details on the book. As they are from Arne Emil Christensen, I tend to trust them. I'm still awaiting details on how to order. Beth Matney >1) Title will be: Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find - >The textiles) >2) Will be published around May 6th 2006. >3) Cost will be 1000 Norw. Kroner (about 140-150 dollars) >4) Book size will be 24 x 36 centimetres standing >5) Number of pages: 408 >6) Approx. 1200 copies will be printed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:44:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNiWQl008712 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:44:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNiemR016921; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:44:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNiQM6090123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:44:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNiQQU071596; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:44:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KKJB3s063326 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:19:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.326.5023f2 (3924) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:18:58 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <326.5023f2.31506832@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:18:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:44:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3E68.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/20/2006 2:54:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, LizzieM@rocketmail.com writes: In about 1840ies i heard there was a new invention with a very bright green colour. They made wall hangings with this dyed silks and also it became a very popular colour for fashionable ball dresses. But they didnt realise that it was a very poisonable dye. The skin would consume the poison. There was a very bright green, lo-kao, introduced in the mid-19th century, but it was a natural dye, and not poisonous, that I know of. This was called vert lumiere in France, as it looked so beautiful under candlelight. Not until the introduction of synthetic dyes would such a brilliant green be available any other way. You know that the most common way to get green fabrics was to dye the fabric in an indigo vat and then overdye it with yellow (or vice versa). The nature of inidigo means that you can't just stir the blue and yellow dyes together in one pot and get green. And, despite its prevalence in nature, there is no common natural dyestuff that colors a good medium green. With the right mordant, you can get kind of an olive green color from some of the yellow dyes. The arsenical pigments, used for paints and later printing wallpaper, were, as my last post stated, reported to have been used to color garments. Pigments, unlike dyes, must be fixed to fabric in some way and so don't work very well for coloring fabrics. They can also flake off, which might indeed have poisoned the wearer. But as similar stories were published many years apart, I find them suspect. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:44:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNie5k008727 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:44:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNim71001001; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:44:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNiE7e090087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNiCP5071394; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:44:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2KJpWVF036469 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:51:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 26272 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 19:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 19:51:26 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060320195023.01d7d9c8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:51:24 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:44:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3E70.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 19:42 16/03/2006, you wrote: >Ladies & Gents, >A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in >Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & >the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing >stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be >seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the >wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped >vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c >menswear. >Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. >Thanks for the help, This might be of interest. I took it at an exhibition of either Franz Hals paintings, or Rembrandt, several years ago. (Hals form the position of the hand!!) http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/img001.jpg Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:46:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNkafV008817 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:46:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNkjfN028702; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:46:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNkEo9090425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:46:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNkEVc073313; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KMOi8D096418 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:24:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5560.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.96]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 76D4CFAC028 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:24:43 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000c01c64c6d$20f485c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net><000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F01B3.1070906@reddawn.net><001d01c64c55$7410ff80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F0909.3070203@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:25:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=27% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:46:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3EE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ok, Dawn, Cut of mens have a shirt pattern wich can be used for 1700 - 1790. Its like the butterick pattern. However you really dont need a pattern to make such a shirt. Its very easy cut of rectangles, slashes and quatrangels. frills at sleaves and neck slash can be ajusted like your taste, wide or narrow. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Hi Dawn, >> It would be, only difference from start of the century and late is the >> neck wear. Early 1700 wore a rectangular cravate (necktie with lace in >> the ends) Mid century they started to wear the stocks wich was closed >> center back. >> Is it for a pirate costume? > > Pirate? Good heavens, no! Pirating will get you hanged. This, on the other > hand, is an honest merchant ship, with private backing from several Lords, > and a letter of marque from the crown. :) > > > > Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:47:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNlASN008841 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:47:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNlI7Y017950; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:47:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNkdRX090493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:46:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNkR4r073497; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KMcpj9010673 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:38:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5560.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.96]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B16FAFAC024 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:38:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003001c64c6f$1b3b4db0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441EE787.6060306@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:39:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:47:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3F06.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Fran, I think you are so right with this. One of the lists i am on, wich covers my favourite area is so hustile and unpleassant that i hardly dare to post to it. It is such a shame because its the same people that behaves badly, and they aught to be taken out of the forum. And the list administrator is much two friendly regarding these bad behaviours. Wont give any names.... Because of this situation, the list is nearly dead now! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 > > >Communicating in the manner of this list leaves out the standard > >communication tools we have when speaking with someone in person or even > >on the phone. They are just words on a screen and not tempered by > >someone's tone of voice. > > So is every written communication, back to the days of clay tablets. Email > is not new in that respect. It's just a letter. > > > As for using 'in my opinion' to preface a comment - personally, I am no > > expert, and based on what little research I have done any comments > I > have are merely an opinion based on that research. I know this. By > > saying 'in my opinion', I am stating in a short addenda "This is what I > > think based on what I have learned so far. If anyone has more > > information I would love to hear it". Then it is up to me to accept any > > other information tossed my way. It also says "I am not claiming to > be > an expert". I think this is a generally accepted interpretation of > > such comments. > > People's expertise can, and should, be judged on what they say about any > given subject at that given time. Not on whether they explicitly say "I am > an expert" or "I am not an expert." Whether the person thinks they are an > expert or not is irrelevant, as is whether their friends think so. > > And of course, in a public group other people are likely to respond to > whatever you have said. You don't need to explicitly give them the right > to do so. You also don't need to "accept" everything everyone else says > in the sense of agreeing with it. > > >As for no real friendships and women constantly seeking to stab one > >another in the back while smiling on the surface - either you grew up in > >a very snide and catty atmosphere or I grew up in an unusually amiable > >one. > > I'm not talking about the atmosphere I grew up in, or the people I know > "in the flesh" either socially or professionally. For both of which which > I am deeply thankful. I'm talking about what I see on the net every day in > some e-groups, a social dynamic I've never seen before, at least not at > nearly that level. H-costume is much better than most. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:49:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNn8oF008917 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:49:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNnHIH003456; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:49:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNmx2j090835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:48:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNmwcl075562; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:48:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KN7ogO038123 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:07:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5560.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.96]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C84D8262834 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:07:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <008501c64c73$26e17e60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:08:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cuff closures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:49:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3F7D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In Dynasties on page 223 there is a portrait with a man. His left arm shows open cuffs. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 18:49:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNnPBc008927 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:49:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2KNnYvx018857; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:49:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KNnKUB090908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:49:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNnIAg075875; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:49:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2KNfonk069256 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:41:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.34e.33fae7 (16633) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:41:34 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <34e.33fae7.315097ae@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:41:34 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: YES Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:49:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F3F8E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/20/2006 2:09:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Hi, That would be an 18th century shirt. Bjarne ****************** I think Bjarne could be right, but I also see a 19th century shirt...the 1st half of it anyway. The shirt becomes what we generally think of as a shirt today [yolk, shaped sleeve heads] in the 2nd half of the 19th century. Before that, a shirt is cut in all rectangular and square pieces. The shape of collars really give away the period in the 19th century too. That very high collar with the ends of it near your ears can be found early on in the period till the 1830s and 40s. [You don't seem to get the starched detachable collars till the last half.] Can't say I like any of these styles the pattern offers much. I really hate the laced up the placket "pirate" look. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 19:10:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0ANsM009612 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:10:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0AVKS027983; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:10:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L0A2TE095499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:10:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0A1lW094212; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L09tYT094055 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:09:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49D43CED1 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:09:48 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <441F447F.5090803@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:10:39 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net><000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F01B3.1070906@reddawn.net><001d01c64c55$7410ff80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F0909.3070203@reddawn.net> <000c01c64c6d$20f485c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000c01c64c6d$20f485c0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:10:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F4477.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Ok, Dawn, > Cut of mens have a shirt pattern wich can be used for 1700 - 1790. Its > like the butterick pattern. > However you really dont need a pattern to make such a shirt. Its very > easy cut of rectangles, slashes and quatrangels. > frills at sleaves and neck slash can be ajusted like your taste, wide or > narrow. Thanks! It sounds like I'm on the right track here then. Yes, the pattern is mostly squares, but since it only costs $2 it is so easy to use instead of making measurements of my husband. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 19:13:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0DtqL009700 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:13:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0E36i029403; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:14:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L0DDM4096047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:13:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0DDXK096989; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0DBGo096914 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:13:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 14so1303065nzn for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:13:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=dx41mUX9CZ2ZmTUxMo+Ys51i2ckPIHDTKRGfO5cjxxcAO/bECuXyZZQo1NelFgvJ4dOPcm2Ery44QGdwtSQ3LTYZpaWvzJzVU3G+Zhskmpjs2WpzyFtA/aqdlru45RpX9Lzrb2z4LMA9pPqlnaHz1C7QyTkVCVTNg2e9C5bEFk4= Received: by 10.64.96.5 with SMTP id t5mr142935qbb; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:13:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:13:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:13:08 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2L0DBGo096914 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:14:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F454B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks, Suzi, Didnt find your detached hand under Hals, but I found one with lots of cuff examples on Wikipedia, esp. Festmahl der Offiziere - Frans Hals. A little later, but certainly gives the info. I also found a 2nd version of Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" with some interesting differences. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 19:22:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0MeWH010021 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:22:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0MnMg000798; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:22:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L0MM7e097629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:22:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0MBDn004848; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:22:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0M7Pn004740 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s1so1371573nze for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:22:04 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Mby2ZcmmXryWLqysGX2Lp54J7O/Kjgity0ZhTqRZfbveObq6YV4a5zg/WaAR7Z0V+Gbp0R5xdfVel62ydauxSlV3brYKiyKZcqzmzOH1VKvkY67kWmZPdVUhr1atX2GZ3TiNq7UnBpK1+NM3AKsQZeX/L3aMJa15/+rGgwkdWms= Received: by 10.65.75.1 with SMTP id c1mr234632qbl; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:22:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:22:04 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2L0M7Pn004740 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:22:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F4759.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >In Dynasties on page 223 there is a portrait with a man. His left arm shows >open cuffs. >Bjarne Got him! and wow screaming yellow stockings, and what's on those garters & toe-bows? spangles! thanks! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 19:50:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0o85c010985 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:50:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0oGRC012424; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:50:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L0muHg002466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:48:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0mppJ026743; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:48:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0mkT9026576 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:48:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.307.9a9474 (16086) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:48:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID103-3ed6441f4d5d135; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:48:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> Message-Id: <6cba4cd2dab6b086bfda7e28b3dc1275@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:48:28 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:50:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F4DC8.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2L0o85c010985 Status: RO Sorry, I don't know. This is a problem that I have with some of the Simplicity and Butterick "historic" patterns. They don't identify the years they are representing. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 20, 2006, at 11:49 AM, Dawn wrote: > This is a new pattern for costume shirts. I was wondering if anyone > can identify view A (lower right corner with the book) and tell me > what time period it's supposed to be from: > > http://www.simplicity.com/assets/4219/4219.jpg > > > > Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 19:53:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0r0DR011069 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:53:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0r8gs013461; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:53:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L0qVxE003055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:52:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0qUYx029679; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:52:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0qRmc029549 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:52:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 387F23A98D for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:52:22 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <441F4E79.908@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:53:13 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 References: <34e.33fae7.315097ae@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <34e.33fae7.315097ae@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:53:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F4E74.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > I think Bjarne could be right, but I also see a 19th century shirt...the 1st > half of it anyway. The shirt becomes what we generally think of as a shirt > today [yolk, shaped sleeve heads] in the 2nd half of the 19th century. Before > that, a shirt is cut in all rectangular and square pieces. > I've got the pattern in hand, and it is mostly squares. There's slight shaping at the shoulders of the body pieces. Views A and B, the ones with buttons and the one with the ruffle and the book, look a lot like the shirt diagram in Waugh ... minus the shoulder gusset. > The shape of collars really give away the period in the 19th century too. > That very high collar with the ends of it near your ears can be found early on > in the period till the 1830s and 40s. [You don't seem to get the starched > detachable collars till the last half.] The one in Waugh has a 4" collar, which is what the pattern has. Are you saying the collars in the 1700's would have been a lot narrower than that? She dates the shirt 1700-1810. Do you know if a ruffle on the front would have been worn early in the 18th century? That's mostly what I was interested in finding out. The neck stock says mid 19th century to me and I was planning on not using it. > > I really hate > the laced up the placket "pirate" look. Agree with you on the laced up look. Ew. FWIW, there are two styles of shirt in the pattern, A&B seem historically based, C&D use different sleeves and collars, no gussets, and so forth. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 19:54:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0srR7011122 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:54:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L0t1h7008238; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:55:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L0sCCr003305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:54:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0sAPQ031158; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:54:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L0s6lh030993 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2d1.590eddb (16633) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:53:54 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2d1.590eddb.3150a8a1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:53:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:55:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F4EE5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/20/2006 7:12:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: instead of making measurements of my husband. **************************** For a real 18th century shirt, the only measurement you need is the neck, really. It's a one size fits all kinda affair. For instance, the sleeves are blouse-y so as to fit everyone. Thus we also get sleeve garters. But if the pattern is rectangles, then go for it! The only "difficult" things about a real 18th century shirt are the neck gussets...set in at where the shoulder seam would meet the neck....but there are no shoulder seams in a real 18th century shirt. It's cut like a poncho. These triangular gussets set in at the neckline help give the shirt a "shoulder slope" that we just cut into a shirt nowadays with shoulder seams. These gussets are a great design feature, I think. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 20:06:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L165wB011546 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:06:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L16EUC018493; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:06:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L15WSc005149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L15Uvh039684; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:05:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L15QmV039563 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:05:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2b2.6eaf0e5 (16633) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:05:18 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2b2.6eaf0e5.3150ab4d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:05:17 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:06:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F5186.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/20/2006 7:53:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: The one in Waugh has a 4" collar, which is what the pattern has. Are you saying the collars in the 1700's would have been a lot narrower than that? She dates the shirt 1700-1810. ********************** I make my 18th century collars 3" finished. But of course they could be 4"....or 2". I think they tend to rise at the period progresses....just like coat and waistcoat collars do. They get higher and higher 'til it becomes necessary to cut out a scoop for the chin.... and thus you get those high points on each side of the face by the 1820s. A 3" rectangle is a great generic collar for the 18th century. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 20:10:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L1AHRm011713 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:10:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L1APKo020328; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:10:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L19uHQ006187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:09:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L19u98043287; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:09:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav13.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L19rH4043199 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:09:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:09:49 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:09:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441D35B3.4070603@earthlydelights.com.au> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Can you help me find a similar fabric? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:04:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2006 01:09:49.0251 (UTC) FILETIME=[26887930:01C64C84] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:10:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F5282.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The one on eBay is called Renaissance Fabrics. I bought some recently. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Can you help me find a similar fabric? > > There is a merchant on EBay that sell church brocades. His prices are > reasonable, and the fabric is yummy. Check fibre contents though, some > are highly polyester and may not be suitable for your project. We found > some good blends that are nice and heavy and have really good drape for > period clothing. > > Kelly > >> My daughter loves this fabric at >> http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/images/C16th/Eliz2005.jpg . Does anyone know >> where I can find something similar and not too expensive? >> Thanks, Aylwen >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 20:18:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L1IJVB012016 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:18:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L1IR9a023632; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:18:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L1HMkY007206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:17:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L1HJld048705; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:17:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav2.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L1HG7h048663 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:17:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:17:15 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:17:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:18:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2006 01:17:15.0829 (UTC) FILETIME=[30B6DE50:01C64C85] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:18:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F5464.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO 3D necklace: It looks like a crocheted chain with a bead or gem in the middle every so often. I'm not sure, but I agree it does resemble the Byzintine necklaces I've seen. I don't know about the flat one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "klh" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:51 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace > It's difficult to see the chain's design clearly in that portrait, but it > appears reminiscent of a Byzantine chain link style. > > Talia > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of E House > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:08 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace > > > A year or so ago, someone mentioned a modern name for a style of chain > necklace that looked similar to the longer one K of A wears in this > portrait: > http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/aragon.html > Does anyone remember what that name was? The modern version wasn't > exactly > like the one in the portrait, but it was definitely similar. > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006 > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 20:58:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L1wnYn013524 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:58:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L1wvu5006391; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:59:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L1w5Vm013656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:58:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L1w0pb078324; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:58:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L1vt0t078143 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:57:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.345.375062 (4230) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:57:39 -0500 (EST) From: TeaRoseS@aol.com Message-ID: <345.375062.3150b793@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:57:39 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: to dye for X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:59:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F5DE1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO So, is this the origin, then, of the old "Poisoned Prom Dress" urban legend? _http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/dress.htm_ (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/dress.htm) Or this one? _http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/coolidge.htm_ (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/coolidge.htm) Maybe I should forward this thread to Snopes.com. :) Tea Rose =============================== From: AnnBWass@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" To: h-costume@indra.com The arsenical pigments, used for paints and later printing wallpaper, were, as my last post stated, reported to have been used to color garments. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 21:13:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L2DODg013984 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:13:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L2DWMY012228; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:13:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L2CXsd015326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2CWES088252; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:12:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2CTFU088206 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:12:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m11.in-tch.com [216.166.191.11]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2L23XA01608 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:03:33 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001f01c64c8d$eca9f9a0$0bbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:19:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:13:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F614C.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, stranger! Long time, no see! Does this newest house have the same kind of red dining room that you talked about doing, a few years ago? I always remember that, in the depths of our cold/grey/overcast/nasty winter months. --Sue in Montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole Kipar" To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure > Bjarne wrote: > > >A few years ago when Nicole visited me when she was having the blue baroque > >dress, she just came from a museum visit where she had discovered a pin > >painted in a portrait, where a standing band was pinned to the bodice. > >I would never have noticed this, if Nicole had not shown me. > >Pins are good for many things, but i cant profe anything. > > > >Bjarne > > You called? :-) > > Bjarne and Kate, I should have a photo of the painting and I think I > doctored it to point to the pin. After a couple of computer crashes and > three house moves I bless the external harddrive that stores 11 years of > research data... If the internet is fixed tonight at home I shall rummage, > upload and send a link if I can find the pic. > > Nicole _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 21:26:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L2Q8qN014526 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:26:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L2QHoF017364; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:26:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L2Pqmu016575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2PoG0097283; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:25:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2PlVc097239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:25:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-126-160.arc15.nas4.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.126.160]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2L2Phpx019017 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:25:46 -0800 Message-ID: <441F6428.8020908@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:25:44 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: to dye for References: <345.375062.3150b793@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <345.375062.3150b793@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:26:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F6449.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO There are too much older poisoned garment myths: Hercules died from wearing a poisoned garment given him by his wife Deianira when he was having an affair with another woman. Jason's ex, Medea, poisoned a garment and gave it as a wedding gift to his new bride Glauce, who died from wearing it. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > > So, is this the origin, then, of the old "Poisoned Prom Dress" urban legend? > > _http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/dress.htm_ > (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/dress.htm) > > Or this one? > > _http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/coolidge.htm_ > (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/coolidge.htm) > > Maybe I should forward this thread to Snopes.com. :) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 21:27:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L2RAAL014583 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:27:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L2RIfX023457; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:27:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L2QrZo016693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:26:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2QrSK098035; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:26:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2QnI4097973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:26:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.37] (69-171-202-42.sbtnvt.adelphia.net [69.171.202.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2QPv9031419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:26:48 -0500 Message-ID: <441F63C3.4070700@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:24:03 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE back side lacing was:Stomacher --a photo demo References: <004401c64b3d$84f93290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3+UffMH2eyHEJwvD@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3+UffMH2eyHEJwvD@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:27:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F6486.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Here are a few examples from the Bradfield book Bjarne mentioned: Early style (1803-10): Apron front: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p88.jpg anther apron style: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p89.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p90.jpg Back closure ties and button: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p92.jpg Back closure, ties and hooks: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p94.jpg Another variation of the apron style: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p96.jpg Here's a later style (1815ish) with back hooks: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-extant/1815-ball-peach-mccord.JPG and one with ties (c. 1823): http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-extant/1823-clear-blue-bowes.jpg It's a bit odd to modern eyes because there are gaps, but beneath the gaps would have been a shift, probably some form of stays, and a petticoat. - Hope (who is currently in the throes of pulling together materials for a presentation to the local English Country Dance Group on early 19th century gowns, probable title "It's All in the Details, or, How to Make a Regency Ballgown that Doesn't Look Like a Hippie Prom Dress") Jean Waddie wrote: > This pink dress reminded me... a friend is making a Regency style gown, > for a party so it doesn't have to be particularly authentic, but neither > of us can work out - how/where do they fasten? Some have buttons down > the centre back, but most don't seem to have any visible opening. > Please, somebody, give us a clue? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 21:52:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L2qmUQ016050 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:52:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L2qvZZ027876; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:53:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L2q4VM018944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:52:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2q2LJ019393; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:52:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L2pwHs019285 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:52:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:51:53 -0800 Message-ID: <441F6A59.5080901@msn.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:52:09 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2006 02:51:53.0341 (UTC) FILETIME=[68C672D0:01C64C92] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:53:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F6A89.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oh my, oh my...you have been busy...love the prince and Thumbelina. Thanks for sharing. Sg > > http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 22:30:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L3UMA1017802 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:30:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L3UUNd009906; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:30:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L3Tiqi024784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:29:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L3TXQH051319; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:29:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com [192.25.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L3TT0X051142 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:29:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos1.cos.agilent.com (relcos1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.239]) by msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2D125081 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:29:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosvs03.cos.agilent.com (wcosvs03.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.233]) by relcos1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 194FF1C2514 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:29:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosbh03.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.128]) by wcosvs03.cos.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:29:23 -0700 Received: from wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.72]) by wcosbh03.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:29:23 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:29:22 -0700 Message-ID: <63D1F08E0E9EAF4185B5AE02D5C0D9642885EB@wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Regency Dress Closures (was back side lacing) thread-index: AcZMfDn3lqYUp6dhSICU2lxmaLZzCgAFWUcw From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2006 03:29:23.0387 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5E838B0:01C64C97] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2L3TT0X051142 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Regency Dress Closures (was back side lacing) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:30:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F7356.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > This pink dress reminded me... a friend is making a Regency > style gown, for a party so it doesn't have to be particularly > authentic, but neither of us can work out - how/where do they > fasten? Some have buttons down the centre back, but most > don't seem to have any visible opening. > Please, somebody, give us a clue? To add a bit to what Bjarne said, some of the early round gowns are only tied (apparently with no front back or side opening, just draw strings all the way around for waist and neck). The Kyoto Institute's new (ish) book _Fashion_ has a gown in this style. There are some that have drawstrings with a back opening (frequently with one button at the waist) as well as the drawstrings. Nancy Bradford shows a number of those. Janet Arnold shows at least one gown (and I think more) that are bib front gowns; they tend to be a multi-layered bodice in the front with the lining being pinned center front and the bib being pinned or buttoned to the shoulder area of the neck line -- it's kind of like an apron bib front being pinned up rather then tied. Here's my attempt at ASCII drawing: the vertical lines in the center are supposed to represent the two sides pinned together )| |( ---------- | | | | | | ------------ \ \ \ \ ------------ This is a nice dress diary for a bib front dress, that should help show what I'm trying to describe. http://www.koshka-the-cat.com/drop_front.html Hope this helps! -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 23:07:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L47XNi019039 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:07:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L47dKh023269; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:07:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L47FRN029018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:07:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L47EAk078428; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L479JZ078360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:07:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.37] (69-171-202-42.sbtnvt.adelphia.net [69.171.202.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L477pa003267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:07:08 -0500 Message-ID: <441F7B5D.9030408@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:04:45 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE back side lacing was:Stomacher --a photo demo References: <004401c64b3d$84f93290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3+UffMH2eyHEJwvD@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> <441F63C3.4070700@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <441F63C3.4070700@uvm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:07:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F7C0B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I should have added: several have a tie at the back neck that is actually a drawstring that goes through the entire neckline. I used this method in my first ballgown (from Bradfield, 1823). It worked a treat! Just pulling it lightly closed cinched up the entire neckline so that the bodice fitted smoothly--no gaps around the bust, neck, or shoulders. - Hope > Here's a later style (1815ish) with back hooks: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-extant/1815-ball-peach-mccord.JPG > and one with ties (c. 1823): > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-extant/1823-clear-blue-bowes.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 20 23:34:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L4YkkV020024 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:34:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L4Ynha000765; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:34:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L4Y7hY031430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:34:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L4XwQP096503; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L4XspQ096380 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:33:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr12.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.31]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IWG00AU6NBJS760@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:33:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.240.3.40] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.57.17]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:33:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:33:19 -0500 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 In-reply-to: <441F0909.3070203@reddawn.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> <000901c64c51$bb683af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F01B3.1070906@reddawn.net> <001d01c64c55$7410ff80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <441F0909.3070203@reddawn.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:34:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F826A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO And you only engage in Pre-Emptive Naval Salvage........ Katheryne who has an alternative persona who is in that sort of 'work' ----- Original Message ----- > Pirate? Good heavens, no! Pirating will get you hanged. This, on > the other hand, is an honest merchant ship, with private backing from > several Lords, and a letter of marque from the crown. :) > Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 00:46:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L5kaXQ022241 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:46:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L5kiUD026570; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:46:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L5kEkb038623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:46:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L5k7Wr046354; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:46:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L5k3Wh046302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:46:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2L5jxpc026673 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:46:03 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:50:49 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <06fb01c64c53$0690fe80$e100a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:46:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F9344.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Time to re-read _Strong Poison_ by Dorothy Sayers. Arsenic properties provide the hook on which it's hung (along with the villain) Wanda Pease > In other words, maybe they were a little more willing to be > slowly poisoned > by arsenic if it made them look good than we are be in the days > of safe(ish) > OTC cosmetics. We actually need a small amount of arsenic in our > diet for > health, anyway, though I expect that these pigments exceeded that amount. > > -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 01:37:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L6bN9d023873 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:37:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L6bVwX010504; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:37:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L6aXDr042669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:36:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L6aWOu077566; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:36:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L6aSKZ077540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:36:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2L6aOCi018722 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:36:27 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:41:13 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <074901c64c5a$0fe6f640$e100a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:37:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441F9F2B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It looks like a lot of the "chain mail" chains I've seen in the SCA, but made with precious metals. Wanda > > A year or so ago, someone mentioned a modern name for a style of chain > necklace that looked similar to the longer one K of A wears in this > portrait: > http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/aragon.html > Does anyone remember what that name was? The modern version > wasn't exactly > like the one in the portrait, but it was definitely similar. > > -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 02:43:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L7hjjJ003526 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 02:43:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2L7hr8M028800; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 02:43:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L7fDEc047982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:41:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L7f6xq018827; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:41:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2L7f3br018800 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 00:41:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from carolineebuckley@gmail.com) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id k26so1006629nfc for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:41:02 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=AZP282Io5xENimBQU5qSl23UcLYp9c8eFExjiGhjxQNTOcbKGi9ixom4UhlQUULFkU6fY+9sxinutYhqxmbf/re7paIi0OqP+qdJDAdJ/G0c+OuveEc/yFTy1izr0tRrsMjSGtXlUOdF8U4LfnN4H4MfUGKWlKZUoYqTsWqvgFs= Received: by 10.49.21.3 with SMTP id y3mr684242nfi; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:41:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.204.12 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:41:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <37ee9e000603202341m5bed0cf7r@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:41:02 +0000 From: Caroline To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Oseberg textiles In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20060320131926.0266e640@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060320131926.0266e640@mail.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 02:43:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441FAEB9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2L7hjjJ003526 Status: RO That is great news. I hope there will be a reasonable amount of it in English. On 20/03/06, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > > OK, here's the details on the book. As they are from Arne Emil > Christensen, > I tend to trust them. I'm still awaiting details on how to order. > > Beth Matney > > >1) Title will be: Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find - > >The textiles) > >2) Will be published around May 6th 2006. > >3) Cost will be 1000 Norw. Kroner (about 140-150 dollars) > >4) Book size will be 24 x 36 centimetres standing > >5) Number of pages: 408 > >6) Approx. 1200 copies will be printed. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Caroline "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." G B Shaw _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 05:26:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LAQf6F009444 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:26:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LAQnBQ011568; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:26:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LAQ3ua061265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:26:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LAPx7B013928; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:25:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LAPttH013891 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:25:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f556c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.108]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5AB50FAC054 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:25:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c64cd1$e2ca6a70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:26:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:26:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441FD4E9.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Nicole, I have followed your projekts all the time. They are wonderfull all, but my favourite is Madame Scarlet! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole Kipar" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? > Thank you ever so much for your kind words, Bjarne, Saragrace and Jean. > :-) I do have a little bit to show, even though I didn't have much time > for website updates. That was an understatement, I had no time. Here are > some of my latest costumes & evening outfits: > > http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html > > Nicole > > -------------------- > "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." > > > > >>From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >>Reply-To: Historical Costume >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? >>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:41:47 +0100 >> >>Oh yes that goes for me two!!! >>Bjarne >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:54 PM >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? >> >> >>>Sorry I can't be of help to you, but I sure miss you on this list. I >>>have often wondered what happened to several of you "oldies but goodies" >>>and why you disappeared. Glad it is nothing we did! Good luck in >>>finding a someone nearby. Drop a line to us once in awhile and let us >>>know of your costuming endeavors.... Might not be my time period, but I >>>still love hearing about them! >>> >>>Sg >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _________________________________________________________________ > Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger > 7.5 today! http://messenger.msn.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 05:42:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LAgtug014336 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:42:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LAh3Ki016134; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:43:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LAgObS062570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:42:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LAgNgh023306; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:42:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LAgKqi023259 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:42:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f556c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.108]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E1BBF26289D for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:42:18 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002d01c64cd4$3275da80$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <34e.33fae7.315097ae@aol.com> <441F4E79.908@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:42:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:43:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441FD8B7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > The one in Waugh has a 4" collar, which is what the pattern has. Are you > saying the collars in the 1700's would have been a lot narrower than that? > She dates the shirt 1700-1810. This collar is supposed to be bended like an ordinary collar, so it is right. I examined the examples i have. I was wrong about the stock kravat invented in mid century, actually they started this fashion in the 1725-30ies. > > Do you know if a ruffle on the front would have been worn early in the > 18th century? That's mostly what I was interested in finding out. I really dont know, my guess is yes, as the slash or slit, dont have any closures except in the neck, so to hide the chest ----------yes. But the necktie you are going to wear will hide the neck slit. > > The neck stock says mid 19th century to me and I was planning on not using > it. > > >> I really hate the laced up the placket "pirate" look. > > Agree with you on the laced up look. Ew. FWIW, there are two styles of > shirt in the pattern, A&B seem historically based, C&D use different > sleeves and collars, no gussets, and so forth. > > > Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 05:44:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LAiLAI014572 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:44:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LAiUV8003316; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:44:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LAiHPn062796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LAiHo2024487; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LAiDj4024450 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 03:44:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f556c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.108]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F321262876 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:44:12 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003201c64cd4$765cd190$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2d1.590eddb.3150a8a1@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:44:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:44:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 441FD90E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Albertcat, Those shirts i have seen all has shoulder seams, some even has reinforcement in the shoulders. But you are right about the neck gussets. But its easy to make, i have not had any difficulties in making them. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 > In a message dated 3/20/2006 7:12:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dawn@reddawn.net writes: > > instead of making measurements of my husband. > **************************** > > > > > For a real 18th century shirt, the only measurement you need is the neck, > really. It's a one size fits all kinda affair. For instance, the sleeves > are > blouse-y so as to fit everyone. Thus we also get sleeve garters. > > But if the pattern is rectangles, then go for it! The only "difficult" > things about a real 18th century shirt are the neck gussets...set in at > where the > shoulder seam would meet the neck....but there are no shoulder seams in a > real 18th century shirt. It's cut like a poncho. These triangular gussets > set > in at the neckline help give the shirt a "shoulder slope" that we just cut > into a shirt nowadays with shoulder seams. These gussets are a great > design > feature, I think. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 08:37:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LDbZPZ007582 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:37:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LDbdBr007941; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:37:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LDaZep094271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:36:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LDaQvt030114; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:36:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LDaNrw030020 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:36:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A14D02E0; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:36:13 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.153 ([209.131.80.153] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 21 Mar 2006 08:36:10 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c64cec$c091a0c0$995083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <441EDD2B.1010107@reddawn.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20060320165323.01def140@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:38:33 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:37:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442001A3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My immediate take of this pattern item is that the book-holder is meant to be a "Cleric" and thus gives an illustration for a third class of users for the pattern. It almost looks as if it were a cassock of some style,,,even with the fallen lace band. kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 > At 16:49 20/03/2006, you wrote: > >This is a new pattern for costume shirts. I was wondering if anyone > >can identify view A (lower right corner with the book) and tell me > >what time period it's supposed to be from: > > > >http://www.simplicity.com/assets/4219/4219.jpg > > > > > > > >Dawn > > > Apparently, here in England, a shirt like this is sold as a "poet" > shirt. (Not sure which one this refers to, although I think maybe > bottom left - was talking to someone at the weekend about this > pattern but as I wasn't planning on buying, didn't register all of > the info!) I think as the shirt you refer to has a black "stock" it > is likely to be that loose period "Regency" meaning anything from > late 18th to mid 1840's, according to some descriptions I've read. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 09:10:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LEAnXA008777 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:10:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LEAvkv022249; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:11:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LEAWbC097238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LEAVu1053873; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LEASrp053779 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:10:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A94D0264; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:10:21 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.153 ([209.131.80.153] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 21 Mar 2006 09:10:13 -0500 Message-ID: <009701c64cf1$84fadc20$995083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004401c64b3d$84f93290$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <3+UffMH2eyHEJwvD@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> <441F63C3.4070700@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE back side lacing was:Stomacher --a photo demo Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:12:24 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:11:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44200971.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I forget which pattern I followed, but the instructions for the bib front has a inner bodice front that hooks center front. The 'bib' is sewn at the right shoulder and armseye. The other side flips up and is fastened with snaps across the shoulder and down the left side following the seam line which includes the other armseye. The skirt front is sewn to the lining (Bodice) to the center front and this too is attached to the L side seam with hooks/eyes and snaps. One of the antique garments that I have seen was of a shear dimity with a floral pattern. Th left side of the under bodice had a strip of about 4"this patterned cloth sewn over the bodice, so that when closed by the bib, would appear the same as the outer cover...if there were gaps. Putting this dress on can be done by one's self...A plus! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Greenberg" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE back side lacing was:Stomacher --a photo demo > > Here are a few examples from the Bradfield book Bjarne mentioned: > Early style (1803-10): > Apron front: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p88.jpg > anther apron style: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p89.jpg > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p90.jpg > Back closure ties and button: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p92.jpg > Back closure, ties and hooks: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p94.jpg > Another variation of the apron style: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/books-helps/bradfield-costume-p96.jpg > > Here's a later style (1815ish) with back hooks: > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-extant/1815-ball-peach-mccord.JPG > and one with ties (c. 1823): > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-extant/1823-clear-blue-bowes.jpg > > > It's a bit odd to modern eyes because there are gaps, but beneath the > gaps would have been a shift, probably some form of stays, and a petticoat. > > - Hope > (who is currently in the throes of pulling together materials for a > presentation to the local English Country Dance Group on early 19th > century gowns, probable title "It's All in the Details, or, How to Make > a Regency Ballgown that Doesn't Look Like a Hippie Prom Dress") > > Jean Waddie wrote: > > This pink dress reminded me... a friend is making a Regency style gown, > > for a party so it doesn't have to be particularly authentic, but neither > > of us can work out - how/where do they fasten? Some have buttons down > > the centre back, but most don't seem to have any visible opening. > > Please, somebody, give us a clue? > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 09:25:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LEPAeQ010026 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:25:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LEPJNF028820; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:25:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LEJxgq098090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:19:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LEJuMk061051; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:19:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LEJq6K060918 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:19:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2LEJjQ08012.; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:19:45 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:19:45 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:19:24 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2LEJq6K060918 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:25:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44200CCF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The ruffle looks to me like an early 19th century shirt-frill. Clerical bands are not ruffled - and a cassock is not a shirt but a close-fitting coat with long skirts. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 21/03/2006 13:38 >>> My immediate take of this pattern item is that the book-holder is meant to be a "Cleric" and thus gives an illustration for a third class of users for the pattern. It almost looks as if it were a cassock of some style,,,even with the fallen lace band. kathleen ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 09:51:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LEp8NO011606 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:51:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LEpH6C008047; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:51:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LEoCUA001162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:50:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LEo7GY084400; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:50:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LEo3tS084259 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:50:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.283.7c4e5c2 (57293) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:49:54 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <283.7c4e5c2.31516c91@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:49:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Regency Dress Closures (was back side lacing) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:51:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442012E5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/20/2006 10:30:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sunshine_buchler@agilent.com writes: There are some that have drawstrings with a back opening (frequently with one button at the waist) as well as the drawstrings. Nancy Bradford shows a number of those. I have seen some extant gowns that have hooks and eyes at center back, but only one at the neck and one at the waist--guess they didn't worry too much about gap-osis! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 10:39:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LFdNYO012970 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:39:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LFdVC6030912; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:39:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LFd8Qm007104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:39:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LFd6nP029658; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:39:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LFd29i029504 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:39:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.31]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060321153856.TADT27467.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:38:56 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060321093530.02dca330@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:38:51 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200603211528.k2LFRwZZ018818@net.indra.com> References: <200603211528.k2LFRwZZ018818@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Oseberg textiles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:39:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44201E33.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I hope so also. In the other four volumes of the Osebergfunnet, certain sets had very good English summaries. Beth At Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:41:02 +0000, Caroline wrote: >That is great news. I hope there will be a reasonable amount of it in >English. > >On 20/03/06, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > > > > OK, here's the details on the book. As they are from Arne Emil > > Christensen, > > I tend to trust them. I'm still awaiting details on how to order. > > > > Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 11:32:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGW47T014509 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:32:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGWAxZ024367; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:32:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LGQNVJ013326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:26:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LGQILD076960; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:26:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav6.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LGQD0v076820 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:26:11 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:26:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:27:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2006 16:26:11.0808 (UTC) FILETIME=[2AB0DE00:01C64D04] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:32:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44202A8A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2LGW47T014509 Status: RO Does anyone have a draft of the undersleeves for the pink/orange Princess Elizabeth dress. I've search the Internet and asked everyone I can find. I have the over sleeve but not the under sleeve that is rounded shape. Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 11:45:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGjW9G014888 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:45:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGje5w031206; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:45:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LGjDpI015931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:45:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LGj94X096252; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:45:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LDnBjC039014 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:49:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f556c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.108]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 70946A50019 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:49:09 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001801c64cee$4768dd60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:49:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=41% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] simplicity X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:45:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44202DB4.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Apparently, here in England, a shirt like this is sold as a "poet" > shirt. (Not sure which one this refers to, although I think maybe > bottom left - was talking to someone at the weekend about this > pattern but as I wasn't planning on buying, didn't register all of > the info!) I think as the shirt you refer to has a black "stock" it > is likely to be that loose period "Regency" meaning anything from > late 18th to mid 1840's, according to some descriptions I've read. > > Suzi Hi Suzi, Actually it could also be a broad black silk ribbon tied round the neck with a bow, and attached to the wigbag in the back. That was high fashion in 1730 Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 11:46:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGk14v014903 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGk9Mr005314; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LGjgBZ016025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:45:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LGjfUx096818; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:45:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LEw1uw090840 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A47302F0; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:57:55 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.153 ([209.131.80.153] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 21 Mar 2006 09:57:40 -0500 Message-ID: <00c801c64cf8$2513e8e0$995083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:00:04 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44202DD1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My apologies. I meant Cotta. I have seen some clerical formal garments that have the lace ruffle. The sleeve style is what struck me as being significant. The Presbyterian collar (also Methodist?) is the collar of which you spoke, I believe. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 > The ruffle looks to me like an early 19th century shirt-frill. Clerical bands are not ruffled - and a cassock is not a shirt but a close-fitting coat with long skirts. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 21/03/2006 13:38 >>> > My immediate take of this pattern item is that the book-holder is meant to > be a "Cleric" and thus gives an illustration for a third class of users for > the pattern. It almost looks as if it were a cassock of some style,,,even > with the fallen lace band. > > kathleen > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 11:46:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGk81F014912 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGkGeD003268; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LGjqrX016069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:45:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LGjq1E097023; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:45:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LFRhcR018511 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:27:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IWH00A4ZHLRS4G0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:27:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:27:25 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" In-reply-to: <06fb01c64c53$0690fe80$e100a8c0@compaqub> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44202DD8.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I don't know how true this is but, back when I was in college as a theatre major, we used to make set pieces (boulders, "stone" facings, etc.) by hitting it with a blowtorch. Then, we were told that arsenic is in styrofoam, which is released when it is burned, so we burn in a well vented area (outside). It seems that arsenic does not leave your system. Once it is there it is there. Too much arsenic makes for unhappy campers...or set builders. Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of E House Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:18 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leslie Mundy" > Yes, there was/is a poison pigment made from arsenic > that was used extensively in wallpaper in the 1800's. This is just scuttlebutt, but I've heard that arsenic in small quantities was used as a cosmetic aid until the early 20thC--apparently small amounts improve the skin and hair's appearance, and make the pupils of one's eyes widen creating the effect of larger eyes. (That last might have been belladonna; going on memory here.) In other words, maybe they were a little more willing to be slowly poisoned by arsenic if it made them look good than we are be in the days of safe(ish) OTC cosmetics. We actually need a small amount of arsenic in our diet for health, anyway, though I expect that these pigments exceeded that amount. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 11:46:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGkKpw014922 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGkTlQ019098; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LGk9wY016131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:46:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LGk9g3097377; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:46:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2LGgBr7093149 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:42:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 36418 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2006 16:42:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=o54t9PhtzGYrMrrvJ42Ao3z9+3vgZgovrmJZQgK2qIeM3w9vhyZy5aG8x1R6MVk3Dhp8E7TYDHEgbHEfsP6rGZRL12OiV2hYTT6EUFJQ1xuMtURjc5z3AVLCiA/6wOI7Of4SAaP18E5EUJfrXqufgffRKZ91YCFdX8RSn6Ti104= ; Message-ID: <20060321164205.36416.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:42:05 PST Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603201900.k2KJ0WMS081597@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: communication (was Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:46:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44202DE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:33:59 -0800 >From: Lavolta Press >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 269 Most of what I said was merely supporting statements for my main point, which I must not have made very clear...you can't expect or force others to live and operate by the same standards you hold yourself to. >>Having said all that--I only write to spec if you pay me. And you >>couldn't possibly pay me enough to use any emoticon, or to say "never >>say never" or some of the other pat phrases I see. I suppose I can't >>expect anyone else to write to my specs (as above). But I also have >the >>right to say things the way I think is best. > > I am glad that you recognize this. It is very much a manner of >communicating based on where you came from and how you were raised. For an >example, my mother-in-law's use of y'all, constant spewing of >malapropisms, and mispronounciation of simple words, i.e. "Lie-berry", "Walmark", >drive me up a wall, but I don't take umbrage or try to hold her up to >the standards of gramar and speech that I was raised with and still use. >It is just where she comes from. In a social group you accept one >another's differences with a smile. > > >>Communicating in the manner of this list leaves out the standard >>communication tools we have when speaking with someone in person or >>even on the phone. They are just words on a screen and not tempered by >>someone's tone of voice. > >So is every written communication, back to the days of clay tablets. >Email is not new in that respect. It's just a letter. In basic truth, yes. But I still hold to my original comment that the nature of email, especially mailing lists such as this are not the same. The rapid nature of this written communication tool allows for virtually an immediate response, and so can allow for an absence of forethought before replying. If misunderstood, it is very simple to quickly provide more information, unlike traditional letter writing. >People's expertise can, and should, be judged on what they say about any >given subject at that given time. Not on whether they explicitly say "I >am an expert" or "I am not an expert." Whether the person thinks they >are an expert or not is irrelevant, as is whether their friends think so. Also as I stated before, on a mailing list such as this it is more likely for one to be communicating with others that are unknown, or not known well, but not with the same protocols as when writing a business communication. This provides greater opportunity for misunderstanding or misinterpretation. To state 'in my opinion' or 'from what I have found' tells people that do not know me that I do not claim to have a huge well of knowledge on the subject. (There are subjects other than costuming in which I would not preface a comment that way, not that I think I am an expert there but do have years of experience and study others may not.) "In my opinion" may also be a defensive mechanism for some. As you commented on the nasty nature of most groups you have found on the internet, so many are willing to 'flame' another person with whom they disagree, rather than to engage in a discussion of opinions. Making an "apology" in advance of a opinion might be an attempt by some to disarm the person or persons most likely to want to engage in an argument rather than a beneficial discussion of thoughts and ideas. But I do agree that there are many women in general who are not as forthright nor display as high a degree of confidence as they should or could. > >> As for using 'in my opinion' to preface a comment - personally, I am >> no expert, and based on what little research I have done any comments I >> have are merely an opinion based on that research. I know this. By >>saying 'in my opinion', I am stating in a short addenda "This is what I >> think based on what I have learned so far. If anyone has more >>information I would love to hear it". Then it is up to me to accept any >> other information tossed my way. It also says "I am not claiming to be >> an expert". I think this is a generally accepted interpretation of >> such comments. > >And of course, in a public group other people are likely to respond to >whatever you have said. You don't need to explicitly give them the right >to do so. You also don't need to "accept" everything everyone else says >in the sense of agreeing with it. > >Fran >Lavolta Press >http://www.lavoltapress.com Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 11:52:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGqFLN015061 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:52:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGqNXC002252; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:52:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LGpVl5016978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:51:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LGpQjV003073; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:51:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.149]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2LGpNIq002913 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:51:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 13141 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2006 16:51:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4wIDPnFKqiAfs7h2YTWpkPcCQwBwl8vAfmb91YkQzryUZsqHXawr6RBFGV39KLncZWf/vRDuD6NCPfCtDE5XGVDLmZj/6/VRpOzFrVU2CI45ZCPeJbFJZLQ4uXNFXPjpXQFcwkIcD3Y5jL6sertnUXxIjKPWyoCqrTR0bzVsVSE= ; Message-ID: <20060321165117.13139.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:51:17 PST Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:51:17 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603202345.k2KNiVMe071685@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: this list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:52:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44202F47.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >Message: 9 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:48:13 -0700 >From: WickedFrau >Subject: Re: [h-cost] this list > >Hi Julie, you can post pictures here if you like. You can create a new >ablum. I sure wish someone would use it! I'll be attending Robin's lectures in Portland this weekend. With her permission I could post some pics? (I'm assuming she'll have a few examples to go with her topics) And of course, when the wedding costumes are all done I'll want to share, but that will have to wait til after June. > >http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=hcostume >The userid is: indra2006 > > >Sg > >Julie wrote: > >> Maybe I'm just too used to the Yahoo groups, but does this list have a >> files, photos & links section? >> Julie >> Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 11:55:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGtJKj015164 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:55:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LGtRM2003796; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:55:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LGrSFK017268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:53:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LGrSF0005151; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:53:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2LGrJY7004913 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:53:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 28867 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2006 16:53:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2006 16:53:13 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060321164945.01debc68@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:51:19 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity In-Reply-To: <001801c64cee$4768dd60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001801c64cee$4768dd60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:55:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44202FFF.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 13:49 21/03/2006, you wrote: >Apparently, here in England, a shirt like this is sold as a "poet" >>shirt. (Not sure which one this refers to, although I think maybe >>bottom left - was talking to someone at the weekend about this >>pattern but as I wasn't planning on buying, didn't register all of >>the info!) I think as the shirt you refer to has a black "stock" it >>is likely to be that loose period "Regency" meaning anything from >>late 18th to mid 1840's, according to some descriptions I've read. >> >>Suzi > >Hi Suzi, >Actually it could also be a broad black silk ribbon tied round the >neck with a bow, and attached to the wigbag in the back. That was >high fashion in 1730 > >Bjarne I don't think so Bjarne - I have pictures of that kind of ribbon and it is nowhere near that deep. It may be meant to be that kind, but it looks far more like a stock, like I saw at Bath, to me. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 12:02:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LH2ODv015326 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:02:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LH2X43007504; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:02:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LH28dL018531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:02:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LH25bC014097; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:02:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LH21Ol013972 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:02:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f556c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.108]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2549F262843 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:01:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000401c64d09$364eb4d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001801c64cee$4768dd60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060321164945.01debc68@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:02:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:02:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442031A9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Suzi, Yes sorry you are right. It is a stock. I looked at the painting by de Troy (The declaration of Love) where the gentlemens black ribbon is quite wide. I also think in genneral with this shirt pattern, that you will need to ajust the collar to your period. The collars would not be that high, when wearing early 1700 shirt. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity > At 13:49 21/03/2006, you wrote: >>Apparently, here in England, a shirt like this is sold as a "poet" >>>shirt. (Not sure which one this refers to, although I think maybe >>>bottom left - was talking to someone at the weekend about this >>>pattern but as I wasn't planning on buying, didn't register all of >>>the info!) I think as the shirt you refer to has a black "stock" it >>>is likely to be that loose period "Regency" meaning anything from >>>late 18th to mid 1840's, according to some descriptions I've read. >>> >>>Suzi >> >>Hi Suzi, >>Actually it could also be a broad black silk ribbon tied round the neck >>with a bow, and attached to the wigbag in the back. That was high fashion >>in 1730 >> >>Bjarne > > > I don't think so Bjarne - I have pictures of that kind of ribbon and it is > nowhere near that deep. It may be meant to be that kind, but it looks far > more like a stock, like I saw at Bath, to me. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 12:15:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LHFPmb015614 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:15:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LHFXrH013652; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:15:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LHD3p6020110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LHD1LG025511; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:13:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.117]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LHCtgm025292 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:12:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Kiloran@worldnet.att.net) Received: from sharplaptop.worldnet.att.net (h-67-101-53-74.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net[67.101.53.74]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <20060321171245113007q1lce>; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:12:50 +0000 Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20060321091151.01ff75d0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:12:42 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 In-Reply-To: <200603211528.k2LFRwZZ018818@net.indra.com> References: <200603211528.k2LFRwZZ018818@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:15:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442034B5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Um, has anybody thought about emailing and/or calling SImplicity and asking them what time period they intended for each shirt? Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 12:18:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LHIbTg015709 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:18:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LHIkxv015113; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LHEZxo020341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:14:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LHEYDH027068; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:14:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LHESvV026897 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:14:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.270.805df92 (29673) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:14:06 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <270.805df92.31518e5e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:14:06 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:18:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44203576.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/21/2006 11:46:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, monicaspence@optonline.net writes: Then, we were told that arsenic is in styrofoam, which is released when it is burned, so we burn in a well vented area (outside). Another urban legend! There is no arsenic in Styrofoam, and no way the carbon compounds in it could "turn into" arsenic. That doesn't mean there aren't other noxious things being released, though. I believe it is true about arsenic's building up in the system. I remember reading mysteries where the victims were poisoned slowly, over a long period of time with small amounts, and it built up in the hair. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 12:28:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LHSkUC015979 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:28:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LHSstJ019616; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:28:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LHSEH1023416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:28:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LHSAit042109; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:28:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LHS7KZ041943 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:28:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2b2.6fab9c8 (3948) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:27:53 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2b2.6fab9c8.31519199@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:27:53 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:28:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442037D6.00A by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/21/2006 11:45:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Hi Suzi, Actually it could also be a broad black silk ribbon tied round the neck with a bow, and attached to the wigbag in the back. That was high fashion in 1730 ***************** True true. Except there's no bag or "cue" [I can't remember or find anywhere the real spelling of "cue" when it refers to a pony tail] in the picture. It looks very 1820s. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 12:43:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LHhT1r016397 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:43:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LHhcX4026323; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:43:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LHfpQ0026393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:41:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LHfnLS057372; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:41:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LHfjls057181 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:41:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2LHfYQ29514.; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:41:34 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:41:34 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:41:20 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2LHfjls057181 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:43:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44203B4A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Yet in Dorothy Sayers' "Strong poison", the murderer can share his victim's poisoned omelette because he has built up an immunity by taking small doses of arsenic over a long period! Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> AnnBWass@aol.com 21/03/2006 17:14 >>> >I believe it is true about arsenic's building up in the system. I remember >reading mysteries where the victims were poisoned slowly, over a long period >of time with small amounts, and it built up in the hair. >Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 13:16:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LIGPWf017392 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:16:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LIGXgm008249; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:16:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LIFsO5032032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:15:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LIFmhc092918; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:15:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LIFj9t092768 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:15:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter88.comcast.net ([204.127.197.188]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060321181539m1400spdcde>; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:15:39 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter88.comcast.net; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:15:37 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:15:37 +0000 Message-Id: <032120061815.13528.442042C9000DA3DB000034D822092299279C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:16:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44204301.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I do have a good set of instructions from one of my jewelry making books that explains how this style of chain can be made, if anyone is interested. Roscelin Going back into blankets to beat of the flu.... sniffle.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "klh" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 3:51 PM > Subject: RE: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace > > > > It's difficult to see the chain's design clearly in that portrait, but it > > appears reminiscent of a Byzantine chain link style. > > > > Talia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of E House > > Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 2:08 PM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: [h-cost] K of Aragon necklace > > > > > > A year or so ago, someone mentioned a modern name for a style of chain > > necklace that looked similar to the longer one K of A wears in this > > portrait: > > http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/aragon.html > > Does anyone remember what that name was? The modern version wasn't > > exactly > > like the one in the portrait, but it was definitely similar. > > > > -E House > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 13:34:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LIXwg4017910 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:33:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LIY6Tj016057; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:34:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LIXZFH035846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:33:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LIXRc6012805; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:33:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LIXNJK012728 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:33:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from judymitch@theoldforest.net) Received: from [69.72.28.28] (core-dc-3-28.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net [69.72.28.28]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LIXHAt015642 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:33:18 -0800 Message-ID: <4420472F.2050803@theoldforest.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:34:23 -0500 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 References: <200603211528.k2LFRwZZ018818@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20060321091151.01ff75d0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20060321091151.01ff75d0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:34:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420471E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Um, has anybody thought about emailing and/or calling SImplicity and > asking them what time period they intended for each shirt? Ok, I looked at the designer's name (it's Andrea Schewe) and asked. the response on it is that it's essentially designed for the mass market, not an exact repro . The basic shapes are more closely patterned after a late 18C, early 19C than the McCall's similar pattern. The shoulders are sloped instead of putting in the little square gusset near the neck. There are 2 sleeves. One that has the underarm gusset and a larger more dramatic sleeve with the gusset worked in and elastic at the wrist. the kind of stock thing, was put in to add costuming interest. and it's aimed at the genreal market for anyone to make rather than the re-enactor market (that's Martha McCain's area). Hope this helps. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 13:58:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LIwqLD018798 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:58:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LIx1cB027896; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:59:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LIwUvU039363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:58:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LIwPUg037178; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:58:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LIwKPe037005 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47C6D3CED1 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:58:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <44204CF7.3020403@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:59:03 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Simplicity 4219 References: <200603211528.k2LFRwZZ018818@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20060321091151.01ff75d0@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <4420472F.2050803@theoldforest.net> In-Reply-To: <4420472F.2050803@theoldforest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:59:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44204CF5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks Judy! I guess that answers that question. :) Dawn Judy Mitchell wrote: > Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > >> Um, has anybody thought about emailing and/or calling SImplicity and >> asking them what time period they intended for each shirt? > > > > Ok, I looked at the designer's name (it's Andrea Schewe) and asked. > the response on it is that it's essentially designed for the mass > market, not an exact repro . The basic shapes are more closely patterned > after a late 18C, early 19C than the McCall's similar pattern. The > shoulders are sloped instead of putting in the little square gusset > near the neck. There are 2 sleeves. One that has the underarm gusset > and a larger more dramatic sleeve with the gusset worked in and elastic > at the wrist. the kind of stock thing, was put in to add costuming > interest. and it's aimed at the genreal market for anyone to make rather > than the re-enactor market (that's Martha McCain's area). > > Hope this helps. > > -Judy Mitchell > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:09:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJ9nbH019263 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:09:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJ9vVV000616; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:10:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJ8o21040719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:08:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJ8n9i047246; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:08:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJ8k7r047084 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:08:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Taniampembroke@aol.com) Received: from Taniampembroke@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 7.27a.6c3ccb8 (15865) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:08:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-d39 (mblk-d39.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.223]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df944204f29b8; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:08:25 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:08:25 -0500 From: taniampembroke@aol.com Message-Id: <8C81B31F6F0AB98-B20-37AD@mblk-d39.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User Received: from 65.2.239.34 by mblk-d39.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.223) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:08:25 -0500 X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.223 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:10:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44204F85.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne, What is the link to you website again. I have somebody I would like to show your work to. Tani _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:10:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJAsBE019308 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:10:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJB3ss000863; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:11:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJAPMk040890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:10:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJALsV048653; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:10:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJAFcW048529 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:10:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08695 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:10:13 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:09:57 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Thread-Index: AcZNBRroi/WPVrhSTEeTnCUST0+EqAAFXUcg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2LJAFcW048529 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:11:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44204FC7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Try finding a copy of Jean Hunnisett's "Period Costume for Stage and Screen-1500-1800" Inside is not only a scale pattern of the oversleeve(cut on the bias), but two variations of the undersleeve as well. The so-called "Jane Grey" sleeve, based on a portrait of Jane Grey, recently reidentified as Queen Catheryn Parr, is just about identical to the "Princess Elizabeth" portrait. Hope this helps. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Becky Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:27 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Does anyone have a draft of the undersleeves for the pink/orange Princess Elizabeth dress. I've search the Internet and asked everyone I can find. I have the over sleeve but not the under sleeve that is rounded shape. Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:17:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJHiR1019577 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:17:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJHr28004262; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:17:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJH00L041667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:17:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJGt5p055159; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJGn0U055016 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:16:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f556c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.108]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A9562FAC01B for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:16:48 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000a01c64d1c$0243d220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C81B31F6F0AB98-B20-37AD@mblk-d39.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:16:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:17:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44205161.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, My links are below: Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 8:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne > Bjarne, > What is the link to you website again. I have somebody I would like to > show your work to. > Tani > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:28:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJSoBe020044 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:28:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJSwc2009291; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:29:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJSHL8043718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:28:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJSDig066520; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:28:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJS795066411 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:28:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f556c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.108]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A726726289B for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:28:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002c01c64d1d$962930b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:28:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] tangled garden X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:29:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442053FA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I am going to make a friend an embroidered mid 18th century jacket with a front closed lace over stomacher version. The embroidery is going to be like the sleave of a mantua in Costume in Detail "A tangled garden of chenille threads" My problem is that i have to use huge amounts of silk chenille threads, i have plenty undyed. So how do i get a dye, that will give me a nice dark cherry red? And a moss green? Anyone tryed these collours? Perhaps Dharma Trading have, i should have looked before asking! sorry Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:44:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJiujH020586 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:44:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJj5Qv016583; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:45:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJiZV2046059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:44:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJiKGu083059; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:44:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJiGbF082977 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:44:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A8AEB339C0 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:44:15 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:44:28 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:45:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442057C1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have seen people measure wrist to crook of arm, double that and measure and cut a circle out, then fold in half making a half circle, then cut the half circle in half and then you have two sleeves. This pattern seems to work but I my self have not made these. Try this if you can't find any other pattern for them. De -----Original Message----- Does anyone have a draft of the undersleeves for the pink/orange Princess Elizabeth dress. I've search the Internet and asked everyone I can find. I have the over sleeve but not the under sleeve that is rounded shape. Becky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:49:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJn3KS020751 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:49:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJnCXo018295; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:49:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJmpir046528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:48:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJmngX087419; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:48:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJmhq4087253 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2LJmcd09971 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:48:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060321165117.13139.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060321165117.13139.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1B52A78E-30D8-4F09-B86F-A2916D7E4A3A@alfalfapress.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:48:36 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:49:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442058B8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hello, I will be at the lectures, also. Yeah! Althea On Mar 21, 2006, at 8:51 AM, Kahlara wrote: > >> Message: 9 >> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:48:13 -0700 >> From: WickedFrau >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] this list >> >> Hi Julie, you can post pictures here if you like. You can create a >> new >> ablum. I sure wish someone would use it! > > I'll be attending Robin's lectures in Portland this weekend. With > her permission I could post some pics? (I'm assuming she'll have a > few examples to go with her topics) > > And of course, when the wedding costumes are all done I'll want > to share, but that will have to wait til after June. >> >> http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?username=hcostume >> The userid is: indra2006 >> >> >> Sg >> >> Julie wrote: >> >>> Maybe I'm just too used to the Yahoo groups, but does this list >>> have a >>> files, photos & links section? >>> Julie >>> > > Annette M > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." William of Conches, 12th century _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:54:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJsQQS020976 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:54:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJsZ4Y020656; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:54:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJs7iJ047412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJs6qV092701; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav13.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJs1mO092637 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:54:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:54:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:53:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:54:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2006 19:54:00.0650 (UTC) FILETIME=[32B32AA0:01C64D21] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:54:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442059FB.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have ordered that book but it has not arrived yet. YET!!! I'm still waiting and waiting. I wish it would get here so I can stay working on the costume. I've heard it was a good book and ordered it. If I'm going to be creating costumes from this era, I' need all the documentation I can get. I have both Arnold books but nothing on these sleeves. I borrowed the QE1Unlocked. It was a great book for the details but nothing on these sleeves. I'm researching it as best I can. Thanks for all the help form the list members. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves > Try finding a copy of Jean Hunnisett's "Period Costume for Stage and > Screen-1500-1800" Inside is not only a scale pattern of the > oversleeve(cut on the bias), but two variations of the undersleeve as > well. The so-called "Jane Grey" sleeve, based on a portrait of Jane > Grey, recently reidentified as Queen Catheryn Parr, is just about > identical to the "Princess Elizabeth" portrait. > > Hope this helps. > > Cindy Abel > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Becky > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:27 AM > To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves > > Does anyone have a draft of the undersleeves for the pink/orange > Princess Elizabeth dress. I've search the Internet and asked everyone I > can find. I have the over sleeve but not the under sleeve that is > rounded shape. > Becky > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:55:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJtAr9021010 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:55:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJtINT029045; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:55:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJsm3e047484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:54:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJslsU093342; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:54:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJsfLW093218 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:54:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13499 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:26:31 -0600 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:26:29 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list In-Reply-To: <1B52A78E-30D8-4F09-B86F-A2916D7E4A3A@alfalfapress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:55:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44205A27.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Althea Turner wrote: > I will be at the lectures, also. Yeah! Sounds like there will be quite a large h-cost contingent! Please introduce yourselves when you have a chance -- but don't be worried if I have trouble connecting names with faces; I'm always bad with that. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 14:58:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJw2pS021125 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:58:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LJwBn1022241; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:58:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LJvUjm047823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:57:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJvSwG095980; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mail.socket.net [216.106.88.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LJvOWY095892 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:57:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9AD6833A19 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:57:23 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] simplicity Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:57:36 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <2b2.6fab9c8.31519199@aol.com> x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:58:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44205AD3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The shirt with the black "tie" looks to be Post Regency (Georgian?) 1820s or 30s. Though I don't believe this is true to the style but designed to look like that type of shirt. De -----Original Message----- Hi Suzi, Actually it could also be a broad black silk ribbon tied round the neck with a bow, and attached to the wigbag in the back. That was high fashion in 1730 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:11:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKBXae021576 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:11:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKBehF007497; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:11:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKB6gx049532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:11:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKB2WA009332; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:11:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKAUNF008779 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:10:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from silvaragreenleaf@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=l0PsKGvcb1UdAWho64+EEHNnimXyZbuXZCdVRTJ7qqEbS+qYKZyUdcHoHJSvbGQV; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.228.90.104] (helo=earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FLnBL-0004jC-MJ for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:10:20 -0500 Message-ID: <410-22006322120101846@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2004.1.42.0 (Windows) From: "Silvara" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:10:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 55793bc9c6738afdef8548c534e04b911aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7994a3e7c2894f7651f6a98575d724f411350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.228.90.104 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:11:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44205DFC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO if you are looking for good info on poisons the book A Writer's Guide to Poisons, has all the details about how the poison gets into the, body early signs and how the death occurs etc. Silvara > [Original Message] > From: Kate M Bunting > To: > Date: 3/21/2006 9:41:34 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" > > Yet in Dorothy Sayers' "Strong poison", the murderer can share his victim's poisoned omelette because he has built up an immunity by taking small doses of arsenic over a long period! > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> AnnBWass@aol.com 21/03/2006 17:14 >>> > > >I believe it is true about arsenic's building up in the system. I remember > >reading mysteries where the victims were poisoned slowly, over a long period > >of time with small amounts, and it built up in the hair. > > >Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:11:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKBXXp021577 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:11:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKBe85028607; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:11:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKAeFu049460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKAZfb008872; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:10:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKATLS008767 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 36so66186wra for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:10:29 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=scVJQxx5otOZxrLIKzCzysQ+VWdvG3Ofs5xVzM0PBQkYb+1yHuRWRZeB6snsAwq8NiWiGVqsnFaWFxalT6jieqTYhXxpBKru9WKS30J7gLxpD3EyBNaVKtLtLM4Klij3cEEX19bkxvLd9O5Dp2m5brZE2XaO3qGorpgIaPtBiGU= Received: by 10.54.105.15 with SMTP id d15mr21381wrc; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:10:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:10:29 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:11:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44205DFC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2LKBXXp021577 Status: RO Does anyone have the book "Lace in Fashion: From the 16th to the 20th Century" by Pat Earnshaw? I'm looking less to have the book for the lace as the reported two images of 16th/17th century children with dolls. I've seen the cover of the book with one of those images, but I'm looking to find out who the subject/artist of the other image is. thanks alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:29:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKTYcs022172 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:29:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKThLT018480; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:29:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKTMf7051930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:29:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKTKul027137; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:29:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKTG6E027049 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:29:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f556c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.108]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 93783262824 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:29:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:29:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:29:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44206237.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have it right here, but i cant understand what it is you want? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question Does anyone have the book "Lace in Fashion: From the 16th to the 20th Century" by Pat Earnshaw? I'm looking less to have the book for the lace as the reported two images of 16th/17th century children with dolls. I've seen the cover of the book with one of those images, but I'm looking to find out who the subject/artist of the other image is. thanks alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:29:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKTYSp022173 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:29:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKThKa003899; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:29:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKTQJv051947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKTQ65027229; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKTLRx027136 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:29:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.178] (pm5-178.eos.net [205.133.149.178]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k2LKTHQN012123 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:29:18 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:16:33 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603211900.k2LJ0ZN5039292@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: arsenic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:29:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44206237.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It does stay in the body, that's how they test for it. I read a murder mystery once based on the idea that if you feed someone small bits of arsenic every day, they die if you withhold it! I don't know if that one is true or not. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:36:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKaOo9022419 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:36:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKaW9g007003; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:36:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKaATM053263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKa9Np034119; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:36:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKa5gV034044 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FLnaF-000CJH-7z for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:36:03 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:34:39 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Regency Dress Closures (was back side lacing) References: <283.7c4e5c2.31516c91@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <283.7c4e5c2.31516c91@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:36:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442063D1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you all so much for your help - especially Hope for posting all those scans. I think "How to Make a Regency Ballgown that Doesn't Look Like a Hippie Prom Dress" is almost exactly where my friend is at! And wouldn't you just know it - why can't we see how they fastened these things? Because they hid it from us! Honestly, you'd think people would have a bit of consideration for future historians when they designed these fashions ;-) Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:46:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKkCEP022899 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:46:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKkKkW011253; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:46:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKjv9j054749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:45:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKjrgG043632; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:45:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKjpOb043594 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:45:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i3so198988wra for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:45:51 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=nPZPSMRlgmlU2Z0DfWPUvRqW9csi6VqCfV1AFLly6oby505qTO7hkx+ahjnjMl6jboebvYB6WrzF1BaEzPHGQu7IHwk5fy0w3lZOP9MOL+0DRB6h+Ar9n0qFpIgckSt47hP2fn1I5cT6EcPFEynqVfYDrVAWeLAEjJD3t0Om+2Y= Received: by 10.54.104.11 with SMTP id b11mr30892wrc; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:45:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:45:49 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:46:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420661D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2LKkCEP022899 Status: RO There are suppose to be two paintings or other type of images of children with "fashion dolls" of the 16th and 17th century pictured in the book. I am looking to find out who the images are of or who the artists of these images are, to see if they're something I already have, or if I need to get a copy of this book so I can add those to my doll image collection. thanks alex On 3/21/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > I have it right here, but i cant understand what it is you want? > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexandria Doyle" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:10 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > > > Does anyone have the book "Lace in Fashion: From the 16th to the 20th > Century" by Pat Earnshaw? > > I'm looking less to have the book for the lace as the reported two images > of > 16th/17th century children with dolls. I've seen the cover of the book > with > one of those images, but I'm looking to find out who the subject/artist of > the other image is. > > thanks > alex > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:46:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKkuaj022950 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:46:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKl5Vt029153; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:47:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKkTEq054798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:46:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKkRVH044224; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:46:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web50203.mail.yahoo.com (web50203.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.44]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2LKkPUm044076 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from LizzieM@rocketmail.com) Received: (qmail 2313 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2006 20:46:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rocketmail.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=OMnz6vxEEm6ReMJ/2IU0RBiIFlvnHaJVpnuatVIeB/8sDNhLFER4P7uGNxHZC6fVd+5MRl3V+wsmImxK064yzOIlzRw/Hpv3OjxbNawXRU7KIuar4SsIeG0FQzlwH8WjEISieOOGXGOg8yp8/zoxdgHY1loNd9wdeEYe6SjDf2w= ; Message-ID: <20060321204619.2311.qmail@web50203.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [131.109.225.5] by web50203.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:46:19 PST Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:46:19 -0800 (PST) From: Leslie Mundy To: Historic-Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 265: To dye for: Poison: "Paris green" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:47:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44206649.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Arsenic is a natural metalloid and living organisms actually require it. It is present in almost all the drinking water on the planet. Long-term exposure can have serious health side-effects, but arsenic is quickly flushed from the system. Besides the History Magazine article I cited before (http://www.history-magazine.com/arsenic.html) arsenic has also been used through the ages, notably by horse traders, to fatten aged and scrawney animals for sale. Arsenic was introduced into the animals diet gradually over a number of weeks, causing them to seem to "put on flesh." Withdrawing the arsenic quickly usually resulted in death. Medicinally, one of the best-known arsenic preparations is Fowler's Solution, which was used beginning in the 19th century to treat skin diseases, syphilis, digestive problems and other internal ailments. Another, melarsaprol, was prescribed to treat African sleeping sickness. Today we use arsenic in making pressure treated lumber-- which is why it should never be used indoors, or burned. Further reading about arsenic: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~toxmetal/TXQAas.shtml Here's a story-- and it IS a story only-- about why the English nobility had white hair and why modern judges wear white wigs: http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/arsenic.htm --Leslie Leslie Mundy, DCC Office Hours: M-W-F Noon-5:00 John Carter Brown Library, Box 1894, Brown University Providence, RI Just think... "Somewhere a butterfly, dreaming that it is Chuang Chou, flutters its wings and creates a distant hurricane." http://NewMoon2000.tripod.com/oneway/indexnavigator.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:52:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKqUBv023328 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:52:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKqdeK014186; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:52:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKpw7R055508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:51:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKpvNS049580; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKpqr9049502 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i12so206746wra for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:51:51 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=JJoQGWQKMu6cNyu83j9SsmoeMr2LgPsh2GjhZgMR+8jDgvk5q7uIJyGKqfmL4Og8lNzdPvF5CDU8SpB0fiy6QFaTsK+Wvha9/WDNRVh+QEBf8og6Kk1cxl/cpskt6eXKV8bmtlHJNautsbYOOFc2c0+YyFi7YGBRSH8+2PoxiZ0= Received: by 10.54.86.19 with SMTP id j19mr23214wrb; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:51:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603211251k2de5beeeh6cd7c52697a3fd8e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:51:51 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: arsenic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200603211900.k2LJ0ZN5039292@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:52:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44206797.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2LKqUBv023328 Status: RO I've read this also in a novel. Apparently in the mid to late 1800's the arsenic was considered good for you, in those small amounts. A woman murdered her husband by withholding it from her husband. Same book also mentioned that it was used in perserving bodies during the American civil war era, and that the arsenic could leech from those bodies into the ground, to the well near by and thereby poisoning someone who drank said water a century later. alex On 3/21/06, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > > It does stay in the body, that's how they test for it. I read a murder > mystery once based on the idea that if you feed someone small bits of > arsenic every day, they die if you withhold it! I don't know if that one > is > true or not. > > Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 15:59:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LKxtTk023754 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:59:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LL02MB017532; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:00:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKxTt3056674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:59:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKxQsd056977; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LKxMpE056823 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:59:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.302.12c0082 (3657) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:59:10 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <302.12c0082.3151c31e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:59:10 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Regency Dress Closures (was back side lacing) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:00:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44206952.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/21/2006 3:36:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk writes: Because they hid it from us! Honestly, you'd think people would have a bit of consideration for future historians when they designed these fashions ;-) There are a couple of fashion plates that show lacing up the back. Ann _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 16:15:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LLFmJT024375 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:15:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LLFvhT024687; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:16:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LLAC1R058042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:10:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LLAAwl067439; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:10:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-dav2.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LLA6QW067264 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:10:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:10:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.89.245.210 by BAY107-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:10:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.89.245.210] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <283.7c4e5c2.31516c91@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:09:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2006 21:10:02.0087 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1873770:01C64D2B] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Elizabethan doublets, hooks and eyes at waist X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:16:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44206D0D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Well, I'm constructing one, and am almost at the point where I have to decide what to do about lacing the doublet to the waistband of the nethergarment. (petticoat, venetians) The style I am working on has eyelets right through the skirts to point the two garments together. I have seen hooks and eyes being used too. The thing is, a friend of mine and I are wondering why have hooks and eyes on a lacing strip that already has eyelets worked on it. See figure 152 page 24 of Janet Arnold's patterns of fashion. It says "Metal eye stitched to lacing strip inside waist od doublet in fig 146. A selvage cut from the satin is used to neaten the seam just above the eyelet holes. Hooks and eye are the new method of supporting the breeches and soon replace points." Why would the tailor use both? Maybe because the doublet was worn with a new pair of breeches? I'd appreciate any comment on this, I am curious to hear your ideas. Kelly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 16:24:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LLOTKU024722 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:24:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LLOcWw028557; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:24:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LLOBtU059994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:24:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LLO92s081437; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:24:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2LLO4ph081275 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:24:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 74039 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2006 21:23:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2006 21:23:58 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060321212106.01deba78@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:24:05 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan doublets, hooks and eyes at waist In-Reply-To: References: <283.7c4e5c2.31516c91@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:24:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44206F16.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 21:09 21/03/2006, you wrote: >Well, I'm constructing one, and am almost at the point where I have >to decide what to do about lacing the doublet to the waistband of >the nethergarment. (petticoat, venetians) > >The style I am working on has eyelets right through the skirts to >point the two garments together. I have seen hooks and eyes being >used too. The thing is, a friend of mine and I are wondering why >have hooks and eyes on a lacing strip that already has eyelets >worked on it. See figure 152 page 24 of Janet Arnold's patterns of fashion. > >It says "Metal eye stitched to lacing strip inside waist od doublet >in fig 146. A selvage cut from the satin is used to neaten the seam >just above the eyelet holes. Hooks and eye are the new method of >supporting the breeches and soon replace points." > >Why would the tailor use both? Maybe because the doublet was worn >with a new pair of breeches? > >I'd appreciate any comment on this, I am curious to hear your ideas. It could be that the hook and eye were added by the tailor at a later date. We cannot know whether they were used before, after, or with the eyelet holes. Possible conversation could go something like "I'm not sure I trust those newfangled hooks and eyes. Maybe you could try with just a pair for now, and if I like them, you can put a set on my next suit." Had a similar thing happen to me with customers! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 16:25:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LLPsUv024804 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:25:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LLQ3ib021239; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:26:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LLPXsA060222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:25:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LLPX2O082827; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:25:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LLPSaW082738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:25:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-241-241-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.241.241]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2LLPPgQ006386 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:25:27 +1100 Message-ID: <001601c64d2d$f831fb10$f1f1f4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:25:24 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:26:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44206F6B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Becky" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:27 AM Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Does anyone have a draft of the undersleeves for the pink/orange Princess Elizabeth dress. I've search the Internet and asked everyone I can find. I have the over sleeve but not the under sleeve that is rounded shape. Becky _______________________________________________ Try this pattern http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/images/velvettudorgown/sleevepattern.jpg it's almost the same as Jean Hunnisett's pattern except that instead of the line from point F to point F going straight across there is an upward curve on the outside edges which means that it is longer over the outside of your elbow than the inside, giving you room to move but still preventing a gap between your undersleeve and your outer sleeve. HTH Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 16:57:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LLv68i026084 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:57:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LLvFeU009828; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:57:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LLul2l064655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:56:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LLucQI013565; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:56:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail-56.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-56.bluehost.com [70.98.111.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2LLgTQR099484 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:42:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from g.vinje@drakt.org) Received: (qmail 16923 invoked by uid 0); 21 Mar 2006 21:42:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box77.bluehost.com) (70.103.189.77) by mailproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2006 21:42:28 -0000 Received: from 41.80-202-169.nextgentel.com ([80.202.169.41] helo=acer) by box77.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FLocW-0008Uc-AT for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:42:28 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:42:18 +0100 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Oseberg textiles References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060320131926.0266e640@mail.alltel.net> <37ee9e000603202341m5bed0cf7r@mail.gmail.com> From: "G.Vinje" Organization: privat Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <37ee9e000603202341m5bed0cf7r@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Win32, build 3865) X-Identified-User: {515:box77.bluehost.com:draktorg:drakt.org} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 80.202.169.41 authed with drakt.org} Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:57:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442076BB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:41:02 +0000, Caroline wrote: > That is great news. I hope there will be a reasonable amount of it in > English. There will be english summaries. The book itself will be in norwegian and swedish according to Arne Emil Christensen. Gunvor -- "Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov" Anders (nesten 4 år) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 17:03:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LM3MBK026350 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:03:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LM3VlL012342; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:03:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LM3Cpi065523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:03:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LM3AvJ019980; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:03:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LM36HB019875 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:03:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f551a.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.26]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E390A50019 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:03:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com><000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:03:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:03:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44207833.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO That will be plate 127. "All three childrean wear elaborate clothes, the boy and elder girl with a suggestion of a farthingale. Their varying collar shapes, and upright cuffs, are edged with bobbin lace imitating punto in aria. All three have broad shoe roses, and their sashes are deeply fringed with gold lace. The boy wears a doublet, not a bodice, with his skirt, and he carries a sword. The youngest child´s gocart stands at the side, while her sister holds her leading strings. The painting is dated 161-, entitled James I familey´, and the ages of the children given as 5, 2, 4. The dates of birth of James´s three eldest - Henry, Elizabeth and Margaret, born in 1594, 1596 and 1598 respectively - make1600 or 1601 a likely year for the painting, Robert Peake. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question There are suppose to be two paintings or other type of images of children with "fashion dolls" of the 16th and 17th century pictured in the book. I am looking to find out who the images are of or who the artists of these images are, to see if they're something I already have, or if I need to get a copy of this book so I can add those to my doll image collection. thanks alex On 3/21/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > I have it right here, but i cant understand what it is you want? > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexandria Doyle" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:10 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > > > Does anyone have the book "Lace in Fashion: From the 16th to the 20th > Century" by Pat Earnshaw? > > I'm looking less to have the book for the lace as the reported two images > of > 16th/17th century children with dolls. I've seen the cover of the book > with > one of those images, but I'm looking to find out who the subject/artist of > the other image is. > > thanks > alex > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 17:17:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LMHpm5026936 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:17:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LMI0R1018269; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:18:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LMHQVK067162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:17:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LMHOhK033963; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:17:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LMHK2O033801 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:17:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.356.4ba417 (15888) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:17:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M14 (mblk-m14.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.47]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID83-3e1044207b6636d; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:17:10 -0500 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:17:10 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81B4C54EF5050-1A04-1B44@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603212046.k2LKkTWI044240@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.47) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:17:09 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603212046.k2LKkTWI044240@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.47 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Book on Lace Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:18:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44207B98.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Alex, I'd love to see your historical doll images! Would you be so kind as to share them? Tea Rose ================================================ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:45:49 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question I am looking to find out who the images are of or who the artists of these images are, to see if they're something I already have, or if I need to get a copy of this book so I can add those to my doll image collection. thanks alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 17:32:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LMWgT5027534 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:32:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LMWpvf023675; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:32:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LMWDE8069000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:32:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LMWBI0048138; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:32:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LMWAJX048110 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:32:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i14so231090wra for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:32:10 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=tOGjO8So/9zBnFQC41eXb5DcaspwWn/mbsVC7X8qsnATMBWSkIp8BxU2VKdHznn7OhcwQKzC9qRlBeAaOJAHhfYGc8S5/Xm1YELRVWULM3pHGnmKwIEorsNwO6PqkSVltuThugEn1PP6Egm5aARZ/hXUGdoOYy5OZS+DDiaqrYw= Received: by 10.54.65.14 with SMTP id n14mr116513wra; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:32:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603211432n2eb0791cp7a7ba64cf166f836@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:32:09 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <8C81B4C54EF5050-1A04-1B44@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200603212046.k2LKkTWI044240@net.indra.com> <8C81B4C54EF5050-1A04-1B44@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:32:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44207F13.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2LMWgT5027534 Status: RO I'd be pleased to, but I don't have my own page yet and what I have isn't quite ready for one either. I have posted the majority of my image collection on the Yahoo group "Miniature Costumers Guild" in the photo section under "Alexandria - 16th C Doll art" and then there's the "Alexandria - 16th C Dolls Artifacts" if you're interested. alex On 3/21/06, tearoses@aol.com wrote: > > Alex, I'd love to see your historical doll images! Would you be so kind as > to share them? > > Tea Rose > > > ================================================ > > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:45:49 -0600 > From: "Alexandria Doyle" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > > I am looking to find out who the images are of or who the artists of these > images are, to see if they're something I already have, or if I need to > get > a copy of this book so I can add those to my doll image collection. > > thanks > alex > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 18:15:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LNFhNj029435 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:15:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2LNFpXt008427; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:15:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LNFWOx074105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:15:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LNFSp6088958; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:15:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay109-f2.bay109.hotmail.com [64.4.19.12]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2LNFOUU088850 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:15:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrscakehole@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:15:21 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:15:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [81.151.91.100] X-Originating-Email: [mrscakehole@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mrscakehole@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603210010.k2L0A3Lr094247@net.indra.com> From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:15:19 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2006 23:15:21.0440 (UTC) FILETIME=[53696E00:01C64D3D] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 273 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:15:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44208927.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I love the Margot Leadbetter outfit! And given your host of piracy pages, I feel compelled to direct you to venganza.org, where they are founding a new "religion" partially based on the theory that global warming is directly linked to a drop in the number of pirates (they have a graph and everything). And - possibly one of my favourite jokes of all time - the pirate keyboard (which I'm sure you've seen before): http://www.studio2f.com/misc/images/corsair-thumb.jpg Kate (new-ish member, based in Kent - doh!) > >Message: 13 >Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:32:30 +0000 >From: "Nicole Kipar" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? >To: h-costume@indra.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Thank you ever so much for your kind words, Bjarne, Saragrace and Jean. :-) >I do have a little bit to show, even though I didn't have much time for >website updates. That was an understatement, I had no time. Here are some >of >my latest costumes & evening outfits: > >http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html > >Nicole > >-------------------- >"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 19:09:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M08tbu032108 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:08:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M0942t027932; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:09:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M07VX1081617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:07:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M07TW5038640; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:07:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M07N8P038463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:07:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FLqsc-0004mT-FE; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:07:14 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:07:14 -0500 Message-ID: <20060321190714.uk3tw8zkldcsggg0@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:07:14 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Book on Lace Question References: <200603212046.k2LKkTWI044240@net.indra.com> <8C81B4C54EF5050-1A04-1B44@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> <870801590603211432n2eb0791cp7a7ba64cf166f836@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <870801590603211432n2eb0791cp7a7ba64cf166f836@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:09:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442095A0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Alexandria Doyle : > I'd be pleased to, but I don't have my own page yet and what I have isn't > quite ready for one either. > > I have posted the majority of my image collection on the Yahoo group > "Miniature Costumers Guild" in the photo section under "Alexandria - 16th C > Doll art" and then there's the "Alexandria - 16th C Dolls Artifacts" if > you're interested. Oh, *wow* You have some Way Cool stuff there! (and I've actually seen some of it before!) Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 19:16:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M0GTUc032412 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:16:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M0GcTl030806; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:16:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M0G84J082944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:16:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M0G5ZL046680; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:16:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M0G1lC046626 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:16:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so242305wri for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:16:01 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=sUPXIFHCgIX7/nn81Q3XB/Rpe1sLUmh3cvXv+zDxEdly2R/WRgZ+uhe9vxaW85u+Eua2UpDj6xJDsR8vU8W4HOQ2yci/Jexpl6h94ymCM+NfoXdblgXq3aHWW8sMDi09C/MjovfWH7kJ20UE5SuAzyC8NXuedXdUfvgkpXx94+s= Received: by 10.54.154.8 with SMTP id b8mr166545wre; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:16:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:16:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:16:01 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:16:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44209766.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2M0GTUc032412 Status: RO Thank you, now to see if I can find an online image somewhere as it doesn't sound like something that I have alex On 3/21/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > That will be plate 127. > "All three childrean wear elaborate clothes, the boy and elder girl with a > suggestion of a farthingale. Their varying collar shapes, and upright > cuffs, > are edged with bobbin lace imitating punto in aria. All three have broad > shoe roses, and their sashes are deeply fringed with gold lace. The boy > wears a doublet, not a bodice, with his skirt, and he carries a sword. The > youngest child´s gocart stands at the side, while her sister holds her > leading strings. The painting is dated 161-, entitled James I familey´, > and > the ages of the children given as 5, 2, 4. The dates of birth of James´s > three eldest - Henry, Elizabeth and Margaret, born in 1594, 1596 and 1598 > respectively - make1600 or 1601 a likely year for the painting, Robert > Peake. > > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexandria Doyle" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > > > There are suppose to be two paintings or other type of images of children > with "fashion dolls" of the 16th and 17th century pictured in the book. I > am looking to find out who the images are of or who the artists of these > images are, to see if they're something I already have, or if I need to > get > a copy of this book so I can add those to my doll image collection. > > thanks > alex > > > On 3/21/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > > I have it right here, but i cant understand what it is you want? > > > > Bjarne > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alexandria Doyle" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:10 PM > > Subject: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > > > > > > Does anyone have the book "Lace in Fashion: From the 16th to the 20th > > Century" by Pat Earnshaw? > > > > I'm looking less to have the book for the lace as the reported two > images > > of > > 16th/17th century children with dolls. I've seen the cover of the book > > with > > one of those images, but I'm looking to find out who the subject/artist > of > > the other image is. > > > > thanks > > alex > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:00:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M10RL2001739 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:00:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M10agT015179; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:00:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M10LkT087892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:00:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M10Klx083224; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:00:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M10GDw083090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FLrhm-0002Ka-N7; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:00:06 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:00:06 -0500 Message-ID: <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:00:06 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:00:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420A1B4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Alexandria Doyle : > Thank you, now to see if I can find an online image somewhere as it doesn't > sound like something that I have I got this one to show up that sounds like it might be it, but it's tiny. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:02:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M11lEx001794 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:01:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M11uxj004969; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:01:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M11cGi088035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:01:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M11cgM084275; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:01:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms040pub.verizon.net (vms040pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M11ZUK084238 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:01:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jeanine@woollycat.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([68.239.36.22]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IWI00F6L869IZ72@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:01:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:00:17 -0500 From: "Jeanine E. Swick" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: arsenic In-reply-to: <870801590603211251k2de5beeeh6cd7c52697a3fd8e@mail.gmail.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4420A1A1.3060800@woollycat.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <200603211900.k2LJ0ZN5039292@net.indra.com> <870801590603211251k2de5beeeh6cd7c52697a3fd8e@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:01:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420A204.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO There is a reasonably new book called "The Elements of Murder, A History of Poison" by John Emsley, ISBN: 0-19-280599-1. I heard an interview with the author on the radio last year and was intrigued enough to track down a copy. I haven't had time to read it yet. The interview did cover some of the uses of asesnic in history. Not only was it used for coloring paper and fabric, but it was also used in a food coloring. The book explores the history of certain elements and their toxic effects on the body. Costume content: Hatters went mad because of mercury poisoning. Jeanine Alexandria Doyle wrote: >I've read this also in a novel. Apparently in the mid to late 1800's the >arsenic was considered good for you, in those small amounts. A woman >murdered her husband by withholding it from her husband. Same book also >mentioned that it was used in perserving bodies during the American civil >war era, and that the arsenic could leech from those bodies into the ground, >to the well near by and thereby poisoning someone who drank said water a >century later. > >alex > > >On 3/21/06, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > >>It does stay in the body, that's how they test for it. I read a murder >>mystery once based on the idea that if you feed someone small bits of >>arsenic every day, they die if you withhold it! I don't know if that one >>is >>true or not. >> >>Gail Finke >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:03:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M132FJ001852 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:03:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M13B4E016191; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:03:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M12wE1088165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:02:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M12vIM085323; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M12sLO085204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:02:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FLrkN-0002hJ-0n; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:02:47 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:02:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:02:46 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:03:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420A24F.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting "Susan B. Farmer" : > Quoting Alexandria Doyle : > >> Thank you, now to see if I can find an online image somewhere as it doesn't >> sound like something that I have > > I got this one to show up that sounds like it might be it, but it's > tiny. http://www.elalmanaque.com/infantil/images/Retratoninasp.jpg And of course, if would have helped if I'd uncluded the URL! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:25:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1POwq002886 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:25:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1PWUx024784; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:25:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M1P7Ff090126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:25:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1P46F002169; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:25:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1P0xa002098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:25:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2M1OuO5020633 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:24:59 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:29:57 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <1B52A78E-30D8-4F09-B86F-A2916D7E4A3A@alfalfapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:25:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420A78C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I think we need to all wear a red H or something to identify the H-Costumers at the Lectures. Sounds like a lot of us will be there Wanda/Regina (SCA) > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Althea Turner > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:49 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list > > > Hello, > I will be at the lectures, also. Yeah! > Althea > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:30:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1UGMY003085 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:30:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1UPqq026687; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:30:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M1UAC2090685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:30:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1U963006191; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:30:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1U3kL006114 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:30:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16409 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:01:56 -0600 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:01:54 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:30:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420A8B1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Wanda Pease wrote: > I think we need to all wear a red H or something to identify the H-Costumers > at the Lectures. Sounds like a lot of us will be there. I deputize you to bring some stickers or something for the h-cost people ;-) I have a class list, but it's all SCA names! So there are probably people on it that I know from h-cost, but I'm not making the connection. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:35:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1ZKgu003304 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:35:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1ZStY028532; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:35:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M1Z9XL091174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:35:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1Z8sX010052; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:35:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1YvxU009877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:35:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M3Jv7j008946 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:19:57 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Oseberg textiles Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:40:13 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060320131926.0266e640@mail.alltel.net> <37ee9e000603202341m5bed0cf7r@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603212040.13659.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:35:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420A9E0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tuesday 21 March 2006 4:42 pm, G.Vinje wrote: > On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:41:02 +0000, Caroline > > wrote: > > That is great news. I hope there will be a reasonable amount of it in > > English. > > There will be english summaries. The book itself will be in norwegian and > swedish according to Arne Emil Christensen. English summaries would do for me. I recently bought a book on medieval Lithuanian costume, written in Lithuanian with English summaries, and learned an amazing amount from it. The price of the Oseberg textiles book is a factor though. I love books but I've never spent more than $100 USD for one! Guess I'll have to save up. :-) Thanks, Gunvor, for the information. -- Cathy Raymond "I'm starting to like the cut of this man's gibberish." --General Fillmore (from "The Tick," episode 2) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:42:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1gA5P003567 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:42:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1gI8I030976; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:42:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M1fqVA092145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1fpu0015106; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:41:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1fmd9015070 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:41:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA36100E046C; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:36:54 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:42:08 -0800 Message-ID: <004101c64d51$d4fabe10$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2M1fmd9015070 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:42:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420AB7A.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Of course, the "H" would be appliquéd, embroidered, beaded and absolutely gorgeous! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Wanda Pease Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:30 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list I think we need to all wear a red H or something to identify the H-Costumers at the Lectures. Sounds like a lot of us will be there Wanda/Regina (SCA) > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Althea Turner > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:49 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list > > > Hello, > I will be at the lectures, also. Yeah! > Althea > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:45:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1jQNd003686 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:45:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1jZ9F032036; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:45:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M1jN2j092647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:45:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1jMiC017908; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:45:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1jFIh017848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:45:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2M1jCQQ031554 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:45:15 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:50:13 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:45:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420AC3F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Robin, Regina Romsey is Wanda Pease. I bought the Inventories of Henry VIII from you. I intend to bring it AND your book for you to sign over to me! Wanda/Regina Romsey > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Robin Netherton > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:02 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list > > > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Wanda Pease wrote: > > > I think we need to all wear a red H or something to identify > the H-Costumers > > at the Lectures. Sounds like a lot of us will be there. > > I deputize you to bring some stickers or something for the h-cost people > ;-) > > I have a class list, but it's all SCA names! So there are probably people > on it that I know from h-cost, but I'm not making the connection. > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 20:55:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1taU0004081 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:55:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M1tjLc003110; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:55:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M1tSMk093755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:55:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1tRke025590; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:55:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M1tM6g025517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:55:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2M1tIw7004474 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:55:20 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:00:18 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <200603212040.13659.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Book on Lithuanian Costume? was: Oseberg textiles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:55:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420AEA1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Book Tease!!!! A book on Lithuanian Costume? Name? ISBN? Where? How Much...????? Inquiring Bookoholics want to know! Wanda/Regina > > English summaries would do for me. I recently bought a book on medieval > Lithuanian costume, written in Lithuanian with English summaries, > and learned > an amazing amount from it. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 21:05:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M25aeB004517 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:05:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M25i0G006923; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:05:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M25WGm094971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:05:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M25Uga033510; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:05:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M25QO6033466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:05:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2M25Mpu009255 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:05:26 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:10:23 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <004101c64d51$d4fabe10$0300a8c0@bob3pc> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:05:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420B0F8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Even put on a nice Red Hat for us Holders of that Honor :-) Wanda/Regina Romsey > > > Of course, the "H" would be appliquéd, embroidered, beaded and absolutely > gorgeous! > > I think we need to all wear a red H or something to identify the > H-Costumers > at the Lectures. Sounds like a lot of us will be there > > Wanda/Regina (SCA) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 21:26:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2QNBN005444 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:26:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2QW3g014756; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:26:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M2Q3ie097364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:26:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2PtMd049017; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:25:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mail.areatech.com [216.106.88.186] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2PpcA048977 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:25:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 473B736A1A for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:25:51 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Book on Lithuanian Costume? was: Oseberg textiles Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:26:05 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:26:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420B5D8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I hadn't been following the Oseberg topic and missed this. Who has a Lithuania costume book and how can I get a copy? De -----Original Message----- Book Tease!!!! A book on Lithuanian Costume? Name? ISBN? Where? How Much...????? Inquiring Bookoholics want to know! Wanda/Regina > > English summaries would do for me. I recently bought a book on medieval > Lithuanian costume, written in Lithuanian with English summaries, > and learned > an amazing amount from it. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 21:34:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2Y7WP005849 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2YFST017823; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M2Y2So098651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:34:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2Y11A055538; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:34:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2Xwav055469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:34:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-120-57.arc15.nas1.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.120.57]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2M2XtW5031315 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:33:57 -0800 Message-ID: <4420B795.7040101@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:33:57 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Oseberg textiles References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060320131926.0266e640@mail.alltel.net> <37ee9e000603202341m5bed0cf7r@mail.gmail.com> <200603212040.13659.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200603212040.13659.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420B7A7.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > > English summaries would do for me. I recently bought a book on medieval > Lithuanian costume, written in Lithuanian with English summaries, and learned > an amazing amount from it. What is the title of the Lithuanian book? > > The price of the Oseberg textiles book is a factor though. I love books but > I've never spent more than $100 USD for one! Guess I'll have to save > up. Fred Struthers said he'd try to get me a copy, I imagine he'd stock it if enough people were interested. No deep discounts but at least he speaks English. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 21:34:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2YZec005871 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2YigQ017520; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M2YYvj098699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:34:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2YYjO055896; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:34:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2YJLO055685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:34:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M4JIZc010374 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:19:20 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lithuanian Costume? was: Oseberg textiles Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:39:34 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603212139.34129.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420B7C4.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tuesday 21 March 2006 9:00 pm, you wrote: > Book Tease!!!! > > A book on Lithuanian Costume? Name? ISBN? Where? How Much...????? > Inquiring Bookoholics want to know! This is *early* Lithuanian costume, mind. First through 16th centuries--before any of the folk costumes evolved. On the other hand, the book has lots of decent black and white photos of archaeological finds.... If you're still interested, here's the relevant information. (Apologies in advance because I can't type the proper diacritical marks here.) TITLE: Senoves Lietuviu Drabuziai Ir Ju Papuosalai AUTHOR: Regina Volkaite-Kulikauskiene PUBLISHER: Lietuvos Istorijos Institutas DATE: 1997 ISBN: 9986-780-14-1 I bought my copy from a mail order seller named Fred Struthers. I don't remember the price but it was somewhere close to $40 USD. He sells an ever-changing stock of costume/textile/material culture-related books. His catalog is called "Books on Cloth" and it comes out 2-4 times a year. I haven't seen this book in his most recent catalog (I bought mine about a year ago). (He sells other nifty books, though.) His email address is fsbks@mcn.org. His mailing address is Fred Struthers Books on Cloth P.O. Box 2706 Fort Bragg, CA 95437 He used to have a website, but there's no URL in the current catalog. Anyway, it was an information-only site--you couldn't place orders through it. The paper catalog is the thing to get if you want to buy from him, but I suppose you could always send him email and find out if he has anything in stock that you're interested in. If you place a mail order with him, definitely email him first so that he'll hold the book for you. His catalog claims that he now takes PayPal. Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "I'm starting to like the cut of this man's gibberish." --General Fillmore (from "The Tick," episode 2) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 21:49:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2n1qR006458 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:49:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2nApB024102; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:49:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M2mlS8000300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:48:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2mjFa066454; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:48:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2mgqr066398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:48:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-120-57.arc15.nas1.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.120.57]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2M2me66001854 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:48:41 -0800 Message-ID: <4420BB09.7050505@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:48:41 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lithuanian Costume? was: Oseberg textiles References: <200603212139.34129.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200603212139.34129.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:49:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420BB26.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > > I bought my copy from a mail order seller named Fred Struthers. I > haven't seen this book in his most recent catalog (I bought mine about a year > ago). (He sells other nifty books, though.) > > His email address is fsbks@mcn.org. His mailing address is > > Fred Struthers > Books on Cloth > P.O. Box 2706 > Fort Bragg, CA 95437 > > He used to have a website, but there's no URL in the current catalog. His website is http://www.rlshep.com/HTML/fred.htm. Anyway, > it was an information-only site--you couldn't place orders through it. The > paper catalog is the thing to get if you want to buy from him, but I suppose > you could always send him email and find out if he has anything in stock that > you're interested in. Fred Struthers (and Robb Shep, the publishing arm of the business) are old friends and colleagues of mine. What Fred told me is, that he used to publish catalogs with a huge number of listings, but people were not ordering as much from the end of the catalogs. It seemed like there were only so many listings they wanted to read through before their eyes glazed over. So Fred decided that it might be better to publish smaller catalogs, but more often, that contain only a selection of the books he has in stock; and then publish the next catalog with a different selection. In other words, it pays to ask Fred if he has a book that you want in stock, even if it is not in the current catalog. I buy most of my new books that were published outside the US from Fred. He's in the US, he speaks English, there are no shipping delays, and I can order several foreign books, published in several different countries, at one time. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 21:56:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2u75u006718 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2uGxE027276; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M2u51Q001414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:56:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2u3Ek072264; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:56:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from goliath.concentric.com (goliath.concentric.com [207.155.252.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2tvMb072179 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:56:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: from julie (66-105-235-22.sd-02.cvx.algx.net [66.105.235.22]) by goliath.concentric.com id VAA12965; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:55:55 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] From: "Julie Tamura" To: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:55:54 -0800 Message-ID: <001401c64d5c$2466ba80$16eb6942@julie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <200603220100.k2M10jDT083583@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Thread-Index: AcZNTHmfLmvADk4NQraTi/lKUOvz9AADy3iA Cc: Subject: [h-cost] arsenic X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420BCD0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I'm not sure if this was presented as fact or if it's one of those urban legends, but I read that decades after his death, some of Napoleon's hair showed up at auction and was tested for various things. It showed that he had ingested arsenic on an ongoing basis. So was someone trying to poison him or was he using unsafe cosmetics of the time? Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 21:56:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2uBbC006722 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M2uKsA029522; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M2u43I001413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:56:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2u1o6072245; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:56:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M2tvEc072189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:56:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2M2tsSF031332 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:55:57 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] re: extant inventories/Mary Queen of Scots Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:00:54 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <43E3EA31.8000904@faucet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420BCD4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Going back through my old messages I found this one. I'm not sure if it was mentioned by the thread, but the book is available on-line through the Google Book search project. http://books.google.com/books?id=89IF87AU-MkC&vid=OCLC04062627&dq=Bannatyne+ Club&ie=UTF-8&jtp=1 Not as good as holding the original in your hand, but much cheaper, particularly if you don't read French :-) Wanda Pease > > Robertson, J. Inventaires de la Royne Descosse douairiere de France: > catalogues of the jewels, dresses, furniture, books, and paintings of > Mary Queen of Scots : 1556-1569. Edinburgh: Bannatyne Club, 1863. > > I'm trying to ILL it, but it's fairly rare. > > Good luck, > Melanie Schuessler > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 23:11:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4BNi7009986 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:11:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4BNjv025515; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:11:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M4AuDm011342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:10:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4AohM029749; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:10:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4Amxt029717 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:10:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i4so302458wra for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:10:48 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=TqrULOq7v7MOhKEQpd8wW/0578na+oGCYv8SXj10EgsC4hMEjvTwNcM0rOJ3M/WbzerUqrPKhZTpmby1y6X10CiGLbWR4+1TU79RRXW2zfSkXrI9TNogVCGpLBQCDESGRUyRPgo+jFzGaRtsrhO6IlrlbJXkxhj/wBR9njh6EQY= Received: by 10.54.105.15 with SMTP id d15mr304061wrc; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:10:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603212010l2bfd10f1n9d7a6500d2d1dc82@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:10:47 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:11:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420CE6B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2M4BNi7009986 Status: RO I have this one, and it looks like three girls, not the boy and two sisters described. I've found a couple of James I family paintings, but not this one, yet. alex > > I got this one to show up that sounds like it might be it, but it's > > tiny. > > http://www.elalmanaque.com/infantil/images/Retratoninasp.jpg > > And of course, if would have helped if I'd uncluded the URL! > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 23:29:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4TOLc010734 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:29:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4TXNC000472; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:29:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M4TK0G013466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:29:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4TINB043808; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:29:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2M4TFnl043714 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:29:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCCBWVJARYSKL2 for (sender ); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LK2SEKV2; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:28:04 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:27:13 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list Message-ID: <20060321.202733.3644.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-9,11-35 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 12:6:2934181873 X-MAIL-INFO: 42f0bd04bd75612d75610d0c610d948584411981e4904160fd45e4e06035591060e5d9adf039f0e9210d1561f00c X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgi8n2ifDLw+ptORkmN3AjyU= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:29:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420D2AD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO And some of us will be in garb, while others won't. Stickers for the whole lot Good Plan. :-) Robin, we are so looking forward to your visit this weekend--it's all we've been talking about! :D Safe journeys, and see you soon. Arlys On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:01:54 -0600 (CST) Robin Netherton writes: > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Wanda Pease wrote: > > > I think we need to all wear a red H or something to identify the > H-Costumers > > at the Lectures. Sounds like a lot of us will be there. > > I deputize you to bring some stickers or something for the h-cost > people > ;-) > > I have a class list, but it's all SCA names! So there are probably > people > on it that I know from h-cost, but I'm not making the connection. > > --Robin > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 23:30:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4UAJ9010758 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:30:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4UEgn013784; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:30:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M4U3uI013523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:30:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4U3lc044359; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:30:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4Tq7s044161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:30:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M6ErDC013411 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:14:53 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Oseberg textiles Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:35:09 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <6.0.0.22.0.20060320131926.0266e640@mail.alltel.net> <200603212040.13659.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4420B795.7040101@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4420B795.7040101@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603212335.09779.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2M4Tq7s044161 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:30:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420D2D6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tuesday 21 March 2006 9:33 pm, Lavolta Press wrote: > > English summaries would do for me. I recently bought a book on medieval > > Lithuanian costume, written in Lithuanian with English summaries, and > > learned an amazing amount from it. > > What is the title of the Lithuanian book? It was in my reply to Wanda. Here's all information again, in case you'd missed my response: TITLE:  Senoves Lietuviu Drabuziai Ir Ju Papuosalai AUTHOR:  Regina Volkaite-Kulikauskiene PUBLISHER:  Lietuvos Istorijos Institutas DATE:  1997 ISBN: 9986-780-14-1 [I said:] > > The price of the Oseberg textiles book is a factor though. I love books > > but I've never spent more than $100 USD for one! Guess I'll have to save > > up. > > Fred Struthers said he'd try to get me a copy, I imagine he'd stock it > if enough people were interested. No deep discounts but at least he > speaks English. So do many Scandanavians. I ordered a Swedish pamphlet recently from a web-based business that serves the reenactor market. We communicated by email, and their English was just fine. -- Cathy Raymond "I'm starting to like the cut of this man's gibberish." --General Fillmore (from "The Tick," episode 2) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 23:34:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4YkBa010963 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:34:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4Ytn9002840; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:34:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M4YaS6013925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4YX5K047666; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2M4YTIq047566 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:34:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCCBW63A2P2SLJ for (sender ); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LK2SN33E; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:32:43 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:28:35 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list Message-ID: <20060321.203144.3644.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-47 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 18:9:3618445023 X-MAIL-INFO: 25c373f3736a8bea6a8b1ec78b1e9baf37135e9ef71a139abe6ef7fa9a7a63d39acacbdfc30ac3b7171e5b8bc3c7ebf7becbea4e4f0fce7ae76e0be35fd70ae7ae6e671ae70aeb02ce7ee70302eb8f8f X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgqe/VJBVCFlukN0n75VsSI8= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:34:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420D3EF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I don't use my modern name on this list. ;) Arlys On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:50:13 -0800 "Wanda Pease" writes: > Robin, > > Regina Romsey is Wanda Pease. I bought the Inventories of > Henry VIII from > you. I intend to bring it AND your book for you to sign over to me! > > Wanda/Regina Romsey > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Robin Netherton > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:02 PM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list > > > > > > > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Wanda Pease wrote: > > > > > I think we need to all wear a red H or something to identify > > the H-Costumers > > > at the Lectures. Sounds like a lot of us will be there. > > > > I deputize you to bring some stickers or something for the h-cost > people > > ;-) > > > > I have a class list, but it's all SCA names! So there are probably > people > > on it that I know from h-cost, but I'm not making the connection. > > > > --Robin > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 23:40:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4eRJ7011162 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:40:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4eaVf005271; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:40:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M4eKxl014638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:40:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4eJjk052289; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4eGC4052220 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:40:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18037 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:12:10 -0600 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:12:08 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list In-Reply-To: <20060321.202733.3644.0.Cley@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:40:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420D544.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Robin, we are so looking forward to your visit this weekend--it's all > we've been talking about! :D Whoa. That's scary! :-D --R. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 21 23:57:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4v4Y6011775 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:57:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M4vCeS011496; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:57:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M4uwMK016117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4uugF063492; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M4uqUn063416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:56:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2M4um4X021842 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:56:51 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:01:48 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mary QoS Inventory X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:57:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420D928.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I started looking at the Google print on-line. It's not in French (always), it's in Scots/English for much of it. Any idea what is being described here: "Item ane doublett of blak veluot/ and the vaskene of the same." I've got that we have a black velvet doublett here, but what is a vaskene (long S by the way)? The next article down is: "Item ane uther doublett of satin / with the skirt of the same." and is under the title The Quenis Movables (pg 17) Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 00:17:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M5Huwf012620 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:17:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M5I544019406; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:18:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M5HB1b020006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:17:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M5H7fW077484; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:17:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M5H34t077455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:17:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2M5GwQS030805 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:17:02 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mary QoS Inventory Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:21:58 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:18:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420DE0D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Never Mind. I found the Dictionary of the Scots Language on-line and it's vasken or petticoat. It even uses this very entry as an example. I think I'm going to have fun with this one! Wanda > > Any idea what is being described here: > > "Item ane doublett of blak veluot/ and the vaskene of the same." > > I've got that we have a black velvet doublett here, but what is a vaskene > (long S by the way)? > > The next article down is: > "Item ane uther doublett of satin / with the skirt of the same." and is > under the title The Quenis Movables (pg 17) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 00:58:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M5wVvg013934 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:58:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M5weAd001665; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:58:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M5wMr3024157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M5wH8a005322; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:58:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net ([63.240.77.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M5wDni004605 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:58:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from CHESLAPTOP (c-24-1-85-230.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[24.1.85.230]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2006032205571301300eaf75e>; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:57:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1c0701c64d75$78dfe7d0$020ba8c0@CHESLAPTOP> From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060319232511.1CE3E84@resin03.mta.everyone.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:57:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Glove images X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:58:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4420E790.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO http://www.glove.org/embellishers/cuff.asp Several embroiders in the SCA Kingdom of Ansteorra gathered together to create a simple yet very important set of tokens to be given by our Crown to the attending Crowns at Gulf Wars. The results were 12 silk embroidered Kingom Arms on linen cuffs. 9 of which were distributed at the event. 2 will be mailed to the Crowns that sent troops but were unable to attend themselves. The last one will be sent to Glenn Abhann as thier crown has a very unique sized hand and will require a wearable glove that is usable for him. :) Enjoy the pictures. As soon as I get the images of the others I will put them up on this same page. Thanks for the band width and indulgence! Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 02:56:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M7uVNl032369 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:56:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M7udnC009379; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:56:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M7uN0l034412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:56:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M7uGit080624; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:56:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M7uC3P080497 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:56:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.186]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060322075606.ZLTZ27715.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:56:06 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([219.89.188.117]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060322075605.MGIX18564.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:56:05 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.385 [268.2.6/287]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:56:05 +1200 Message-ID: <00ec01c64d86$125a9300$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary QoS Inventory Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:56:05 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:56:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44210338.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > I started looking at the Google print on-line. It's not in French (always), > it's in Scots/English for much of it. Ooh, Ok another book to search for over there:) > Any idea what is being described here: > "Item ane doublett of blak veluot/ and the vaskene of the same." I know you answered this yourself, but it probably comes from the term vasquina which was used to describe a petticoat/skirt as you have described. In Alcega it is used *only* for skirts, if there is a bodice it is mentioned seperately: Vasquina y cuerpo baxo. I haven't quite worked out what makes a vasquina is different from a faldellin, but it seems a vasquina is made from trapezoid pieces while the faldellin are from half circles. Not sure if faldellin appear in the QoS inventory or not though;) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.6/287 - Release Date: 21/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 03:18:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M8IlxY004965 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:18:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M8IuI3017158; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:18:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M8Ih1J036415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:18:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M8IgW4094715; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:18:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.176.240]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2M8IcgP094628 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:18:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 24710 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 08:18:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=iMZSF6AYxHNj1QJnKTqaTaIFA50nPLSCW92Q4s40UXEGSxCt755lx3FCqsdDs596Z3q/LKVfEQjuXZyMLsw/UOOha8MqAE0pQjNotyhv+dibQWaESGQP6nF/HXT/JId4ClJYBVgt1u2lT80zmAuerJuv8TI/YV2G5JbR5jNcuYs= ; Message-ID: <20060322081832.24708.qmail@web25712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:18:32 GMT Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:18:32 +0000 (GMT) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Re: arsenic - napoleon and fine ladies and Costumers in Edinburgh X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:18:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44210870.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hello (I'm catching up!) the random information my brain retains pinged at both of these notes 1. One theory is that the wallpaper in Napoleon's home contained arsenic which was released (as a vapour) by the damp weather, hence arsenic in his hair sample. It didn't actually kill him but made lots of those around ill too. See: http://www.victorianweb.org/history/arsenic.html and numerous other sources. 2. Arsenic gave a fashionable pallor to the face, hence its application (along with lead) by elegant ladies. again http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/mb/rouge.html or http://www.vintageconnection.net/ModesInMakeup.htm Some have even suggested that Mozart died from over-enthusiastic application of face cream! Hello Nicole - I'm in Edinburgh and I love your site! What are you working on now? I'm knee deep in a recreation of Eowyn's green velvet gown for myself for a wedding this weekend (I'm at the toile stage: don't ask, it's a deadline/kamikaze thing). Not strictly historical but fun. Katherine S "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 03:49:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M8nuhb012880 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:49:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M8o5gu027871; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:50:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M8nnWd040273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:49:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M8nm6o012736; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M8niOk012691 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:49:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24747.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.71]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CECE22628AD for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:49:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com><000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com><000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com><20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:49:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:50:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44210FBD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Susan, This is the picture on the cover of the book, the other one is inside the book. So its not this one, unfortunately. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > Quoting "Susan B. Farmer" : > >> Quoting Alexandria Doyle : >> >>> Thank you, now to see if I can find an online image somewhere as it >>> doesn't >>> sound like something that I have >> >> I got this one to show up that sounds like it might be it, but it's >> tiny. > > http://www.elalmanaque.com/infantil/images/Retratoninasp.jpg > > And of course, if would have helped if I'd uncluded the URL! > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 03:57:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M8vNxD015761 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:57:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2M8vTQC030118; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:57:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M8txPr041354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:55:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M8twwC016689; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:55:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2M8tttI016638 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:55:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24747.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.71]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FE9AA5003F for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:55:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003d01c64d8e$74b1ec30$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary QoS Inventory Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:56:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:57:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44211179.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Could this be Vasquine, varthingale? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:01 AM Subject: [h-cost] Mary QoS Inventory >I started looking at the Google print on-line. It's not in French >(always), > it's in Scots/English for much of it. > > Any idea what is being described here: > > "Item ane doublett of blak veluot/ and the vaskene of the same." > > I've got that we have a black velvet doublett here, but what is a vaskene > (long S by the way)? > > The next article down is: > "Item ane uther doublett of satin / with the skirt of the same." and is > under the title The Quenis Movables (pg 17) > > > Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey > Never attribute to malice what can as easily > be attributed to simple social ineptness > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 05:10:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MAA1Sk028328 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:10:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MAA9Cr021725; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:10:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MA9eLr059623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:09:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MA9V9j060632; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:09:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MA9QxJ060582 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:09:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-181-19.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.181.19]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MA9L4C008184 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:09:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322040239.01d26878@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:04:24 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Art Hysteria In-Reply-To: <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <200603171901.k2HJ0ksW019472@net.indra.com> <8C8182CDBCFC054-AB8-649@mblk-r26.sysops.aol.com> <04f101c64a42$ac9fab40$e100a8c0@compaqub> <04f501c64a48$232277c0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:10:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44212281.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On the same level is this site: http://www.sirbacon.org/toc.html Which claims that Sir Francis Bacon is Shakespeare and the illegitimate son of Queen Elizabeth suggesting this painting is of her pregnant: http://www.sirbacon.org/slides_html/sld006.htm Cheers, Danielle At 10:55 PM 3/17/2006, you wrote: >Just for fun--here's an analysis of a copy of Holbein's sketch of >Thomas More's Family: >http://www.holbeinartworks.org/bfourstmandtpitt.htm >Anyone who makes it all the way through gets a cookie! > >-E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 07:52:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MCqgcm029557 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:52:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MCqpnT011754; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:52:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MCp9dm075919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:51:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MCp3H2064558; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:51:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MCp0Sd064473 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:51:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:50:55 -0800 Message-ID: <4421482F.3090507@msn.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:50:55 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] tangled garden References: <002c01c64d1d$962930b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002c01c64d1d$962930b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 12:50:55.0412 (UTC) FILETIME=[4254FF40:01C64DAF] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:52:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442148A3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sounds lovely. The subject line certainly conjured up wonderful images. Yep, Dharma is where I would start. I have had great success in combining colors to get something they don't have "off the shelf." Keep us posted! Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > Perhaps Dharma Trading have, i should have looked before asking! sorry > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 07:55:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MCtmIS029637 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:55:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MCtvlW012913; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:56:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MCtfNl076712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:55:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MCteLU068023; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:55:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MCtagA067920 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:55:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A942026C; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:55:30 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.141 ([209.131.80.141] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 22 Mar 2006 07:55:27 -0500 Message-ID: <00a801c64db0$3b481380$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com><000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com><000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com><20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com><20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <870801590603212010l2bfd10f1n9d7a6500d2d1dc82@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:57:51 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:56:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421495D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Ah, but remember that boys of this time period did not wear distinctive dress until they had been breached! Kathleen --- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question I have this one, and it looks like three girls, not the boy and two sisters described. I've found a couple of James I family paintings, but not this one, yet. alex > > I got this one to show up that sounds like it might be it, but it's > > tiny. > > http://www.elalmanaque.com/infantil/images/Retratoninasp.jpg > > And of course, if would have helped if I'd uncluded the URL! > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 08:11:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MDBP8L029970 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:11:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MDBVF1018773; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:11:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MDB7LF078380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:11:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MDB5ON078361; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:11:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MDB16d078244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:11:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FM371-0000iB-UJ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:10:55 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:10:55 -0500 Message-ID: <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:10:55 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com><000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com><000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com><20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:11:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44214D03.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : > Hi Susan, > This is the picture on the cover of the book, the other one is inside > the book. > So its not this one, unfortunately. That one was so tiny, if it *was* the correct picture, I don't know how much good it would have been. Sounds like when I finish this dissertation, I'm going to have to ILL this book too. My library doesn't have it. Susan =========== > > >> Quoting "Susan B. Farmer" : >> >>> >>> I got this one to show up that sounds like it might be it, but it's >>> tiny. >> >> http://www.elalmanaque.com/infantil/images/Retratoninasp.jpg >> ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 08:40:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MDecev030701 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:40:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MDelKx029782; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:40:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MDeRFf081356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:40:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MDeQn7099755; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:40:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MDeMtd099708 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:40:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so363691wra for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:40:22 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=pdDF63E6LemHp99GfB2ceIsU6+DJPy5WBffPJEIrk2Xza7LE8J/ikGnH6r5fB4+U/nsM7EasmaYakNH790kIxlt+ya+lzcn0sNZ/lTadSIGJ53X3kOc5x0iMYUQWBt9VxjDE/1F8YJpIl6rNS+EyWljFFRj4bNf4PHtXInKQc/Q= Received: by 10.54.79.12 with SMTP id c12mr552170wrb; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:40:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603220540y4ac7b79bx6372dea1ba0ffece@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:40:22 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <00a801c64db0$3b481380$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <870801590603212010l2bfd10f1n9d7a6500d2d1dc82@mail.gmail.com> <00a801c64db0$3b481380$8d5083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:40:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442153DF.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2MDecev030701 Status: RO Most of the paintings I've seen of boys in this time period they are wearing a high neck doublet, with skirts, not the scooped neck of these bodices, so I think these are girls, in matching dresses. Pretty little dresses too alex On 3/22/06, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > Ah, but remember that boys of this time period did not wear distinctive > dress until they had been breached! > Kathleen > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexandria Doyle" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:10 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > > > I have this one, and it looks like three girls, not the boy and two > sisters > described. I've found a couple of James I family paintings, but not this > one, yet. > > alex > > > > > I got this one to show up that sounds like it might be it, but it's > > > tiny. > > > > http://www.elalmanaque.com/infantil/images/Retratoninasp.jpg > > > > And of course, if would have helped if I'd uncluded the URL! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 09:06:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ME5sl8031316 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:05:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ME633T008604; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:06:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ME5Vb9083633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:05:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2ME5MH2017399; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:05:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2ME5IET017274 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:05:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 84971 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 14:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2006 14:05:12 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:05:19 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:06:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442159CB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 13:10 22/03/2006, you wrote: >Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : > >>Hi Susan, >>This is the picture on the cover of the book, the other one is >>inside the book. >>So its not this one, unfortunately. > >That one was so tiny, if it *was* the correct picture, I don't know how >much good it would have been. Sounds like when I finish this >dissertation, I'm going to have to ILL this book too. My library >doesn't have it. The description of the picture on the front cover is as follows "Portrait of three young girls, circle of Robert Peake, c. 1620" The relevant picture is of three children. The boy on the left carries a whip, or gloves - the picture is not very clear. The child in the middle, a girl, carries a doll, and the third girl seems to be holding the younger girl's leading strings. This is the one that matches the description that Bjarne gave, and not the coloured one recently shown. (I've wiped all the previous correspondence - sorry.) Alexandria, I can scan this for you if it would help? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 09:19:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MEJgZB032150 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:19:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MEJpt8015426; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:19:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MEJJ9H085202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:19:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MEJImk027923; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:19:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MEJFSu027887 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:19:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 36so277732wra for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:19:15 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=jpsjGgaBVdkvW7QmRX/tKC7RSH4w0o6WhfSw4ZLtEzFhNrfWOfgyXfKszMC45xqO/OvY/pGJHfmCZot6oyYz4j/U9nFlpj+GiedNu4BiRHbAJRy0SJ591Ojyvc0Th4F4jda3Xs0NcE7mzLT9Qsxb+C2hwgTEgw7kzfM1nUNICK4= Received: by 10.54.104.11 with SMTP id b11mr585212wrc; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:19:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603220619p2b42eer8474462c401ae1f0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:19:15 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:19:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44215D07.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2MEJgZB032150 Status: RO > > > > The description of the picture on the front cover is as follows > "Portrait of three young girls, circle of Robert Peake, c. 1620" > > The relevant picture is of three children. The boy on the left > carries a whip, or gloves - the picture is not very clear. The child > in the middle, a girl, carries a doll, and the third girl seems to be > holding the younger girl's leading strings. This is the one that > matches the description that Bjarne gave, and not the coloured one > recently shown. (I've wiped all the previous correspondence - sorry.) > > Alexandria, I can scan this for you if it would help? > > Suzi > > > Please, please please, thank you thank you thank you Sending it directly to me would be wonderful and I'll post it with the other photos I have in case anyone else is interested in seeing it. alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 10:47:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MFlC46002408 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:47:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MFlKbo031769; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:47:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MFkenK095456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MFkSPU003147; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MFkOX7003078 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:46:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from n.mm@gte.net) Received: from POGO.gte.net ([71.111.127.128]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IWJ0079KD46MM60@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:45:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:45:43 -0800 From: Nancy Millis-MacHaffie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list In-reply-to: X-Sender: res04vv9@incoming.verizon.net To: Historical Costume Message-id: <5.1.0.14.1.20060322074355.02e722a0@incoming.verizon.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed References: <20060321.202733.3644.0.Cley@juno.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:47:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44217188.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 11:12 PM 3/21/2006 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > > Robin, we are so looking forward to your visit this weekend--it's all > > we've been talking about! :D > >Whoa. That's scary! :-D > >--R. This will make you really nervous Robin. :D I keep waking up thinking "3 more days!" Serious question: Are you going to bring any copies of your book(s) for sale? Nancy MM _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 10:56:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MFuete002634 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:56:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MFunwB004152; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:56:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MFuB0c096981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:56:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MFu7Va012272; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:56:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MFu0rA012076 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:56:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23208 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:27:53 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:27:50 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20060322074355.02e722a0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:56:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442173C1.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Nancy Millis-MacHaffie wrote: > This will make you really nervous Robin. :D > > I keep waking up thinking "3 more days!" Oh, gee. I hope I live up to expectations! > Serious question: Are you going to bring any copies of your book(s) > for sale? I don't sell the books (I have to pay for my own copies!). But I've arranged for my publisher to send a discount flyer for both Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 (the latter just coming off the press now) so that people at the lecture can order either if they like. I'll bring a copy of Vol. 1 to show around. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 11:06:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MG6T7c002924 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:06:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MG6aSp009215; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:06:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MG5woP099169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:05:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MG5sK1022605; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MG5oxv022386 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 9419 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 16:05:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=YRmgGV0Hztg+ABpIgZZQ09N2Fh/lKgrxqyMJue+ox1u/0d1cWbPgo0kANi1vgWKw0xX46cwGxwJcfWqVSe4XFX6uWLRuxsS/c+Q6JkRDO+ISefHnDcKPyCAHEg4Yup+Y/EZjjcPf9S7OU5vBsufZF6U57yvEZveU460o45oG4P0= ; Message-ID: <20060322160544.9417.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:05:44 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:05:44 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603221311.k2MDB6OS078372@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 280 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:06:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421760C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I haven't yet established an SCA name and will be wearing modern garb....and will have my sometimes reticent, sometimes talk your ear off fiance in tow. Don't take it personally if he stands to one side and glowers. Annette M Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:27:13 -0800 From: Cynthia J Ley Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list And some of us will be in garb, while others won't. Stickers for the whole lot Good Plan. :-) Robin, we are so looking forward to your visit this weekend--it's all we've been talking about! :D Safe journeys, and see you soon. Arlys On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:01:54 -0600 (CST) Robin Netherton writes: > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Wanda Pease wrote: > > > I think we need to all wear a red H or something to identify the > H-Costumers > > at the Lectures. Sounds like a lot of us will be there. > > I deputize you to bring some stickers or something for the h-cost > people > ;-) > > I have a class list, but it's all SCA names! So there are probably > people > on it that I know from h-cost, but I'm not making the connection. > > --Robin > > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 11:18:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MGI9n4003283 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:18:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MGII3u014907; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:18:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MGGcrj001019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:16:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MGGZmQ033295; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:16:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MGGTII033187 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24747.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.71]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 99E38A500A0 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:16:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002001c64dcb$fcfdf740$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com><000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com><000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com><20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com><20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com><001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:16:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:18:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442178CA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I get a little confused now. The cover book picture, shows 3 girls. First girl carries grapes in her right hand, second girl has pears and the little girl a doll. Bjarne The picture asked for was inside, and only in black and white. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > At 13:10 22/03/2006, you wrote: >>Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : >> >>>Hi Susan, >>>This is the picture on the cover of the book, the other one is inside the >>>book. >>>So its not this one, unfortunately. >> >>That one was so tiny, if it *was* the correct picture, I don't know how >>much good it would have been. Sounds like when I finish this >>dissertation, I'm going to have to ILL this book too. My library >>doesn't have it. > > > The description of the picture on the front cover is as follows "Portrait > of three young girls, circle of Robert Peake, c. 1620" > > The relevant picture is of three children. The boy on the left carries a > whip, or gloves - the picture is not very clear. The child in the middle, > a girl, carries a doll, and the third girl seems to be holding the younger > girl's leading strings. This is the one that matches the description that > Bjarne gave, and not the coloured one recently shown. (I've wiped all the > previous correspondence - sorry.) > > Alexandria, I can scan this for you if it would help? > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 11:25:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MGPOhg003509 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:25:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MGPX3R018548; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:25:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MGP21N002684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:25:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MGOsYO042002; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:24:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MGOltw041804 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:24:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 5524 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 16:24:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2006 16:24:38 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322162223.01df28a8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:24:30 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <002001c64dcb$fcfdf740$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> <002001c64dcb$fcfdf740$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:25:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44217A7D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 16:16 22/03/2006, you wrote: >Hi, >I get a little confused now. The cover book picture, shows 3 girls. >First girl carries grapes in her right hand, second girl has pears >and the little girl a doll. > >Bjarne > >The picture asked for was inside, and only in black and white. That is the description you gave, but someone posted the picture on the cover. I was simply clarifying the situation, and Alexandria now has a copy of the picture inside, which is the one you described in the first place. Suzi >>At 13:10 22/03/2006, you wrote: >>>Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : >>> >>>>Hi Susan, >>>>This is the picture on the cover of the book, the other one is >>>>inside the book. >>>>So its not this one, unfortunately. >>> >>>That one was so tiny, if it *was* the correct picture, I don't know how >>>much good it would have been. Sounds like when I finish this >>>dissertation, I'm going to have to ILL this book too. My library >>>doesn't have it. >> >> >>The description of the picture on the front cover is as follows >>"Portrait of three young girls, circle of Robert Peake, c. 1620" >> >>The relevant picture is of three children. The boy on the left >>carries a whip, or gloves - the picture is not very clear. The >>child in the middle, a girl, carries a doll, and the third girl >>seems to be holding the younger girl's leading strings. This is the >>one that matches the description that Bjarne gave, and not the >>coloured one recently shown. (I've wiped all the previous >>correspondence - sorry.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 11:40:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MGe1XM004049 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:40:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MGeAb5025716; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:40:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MGdesP005083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:39:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MGdaqr056962; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:39:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MGdVRi056868 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24747.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.71]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3CAD9262807 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:39:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000601c64dcf$369e7080$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com><000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com><000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com><20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com><20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com><001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com><6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1><002001c64dcb$fcfdf740$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322162223.01df28a8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:39:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:40:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44217DEA.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sorry Suzi, It was me having two much in my head at the time. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > At 16:16 22/03/2006, you wrote: >>Hi, >>I get a little confused now. The cover book picture, shows 3 girls. >>First girl carries grapes in her right hand, second girl has pears >>and the little girl a doll. >> >>Bjarne >> >>The picture asked for was inside, and only in black and white. > > That is the description you gave, but someone posted the picture on > the cover. I was simply clarifying the situation, and Alexandria now > has a copy of the picture inside, which is the one you described in > the first place. > > Suzi > > >>>At 13:10 22/03/2006, you wrote: >>>>Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : >>>> >>>>>Hi Susan, >>>>>This is the picture on the cover of the book, the other one is >>>>>inside the book. >>>>>So its not this one, unfortunately. >>>> >>>>That one was so tiny, if it *was* the correct picture, I don't know how >>>>much good it would have been. Sounds like when I finish this >>>>dissertation, I'm going to have to ILL this book too. My library >>>>doesn't have it. >>> >>> >>>The description of the picture on the front cover is as follows >>>"Portrait of three young girls, circle of Robert Peake, c. 1620" >>> >>>The relevant picture is of three children. The boy on the left >>>carries a whip, or gloves - the picture is not very clear. The >>>child in the middle, a girl, carries a doll, and the third girl >>>seems to be holding the younger girl's leading strings. This is the >>>one that matches the description that Bjarne gave, and not the >>>coloured one recently shown. (I've wiped all the previous >>>correspondence - sorry.) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 13:28:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MISdcL007738 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:28:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MISmtG012024; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:28:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MIMsEe020078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:22:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MIMh0q055337; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:22:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MIMXln055083 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:22:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 7182 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 18:22:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2006 18:22:27 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322182149.01d7f328@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:22:31 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <870801590603220619p2b42eer8474462c401ae1f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> <870801590603220619p2b42eer8474462c401ae1f0@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New book on medieval braid X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:28:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44219760.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO From another list I use Suzi ---------- ADVANCE NOTIFICATION Tak v Bowes Departed: A 15th Century Braiding Manual Examined by Elizabeth Benns and Gina Barrett Tak v bowes departed is an in-depth study of Article 4, British Library Manuscript Harley 2320. This treatise, which dates to the fifteenth century, gives instructions for making forty different braids of varying complexity. Braids such as these were used for a variety of purposes during the medieval period; lacing clothes, purse strings, decorative trim and seal tags. This book discusses the background of the original manuscript; who may have owned it, how it was made, and compares the spelling and language with other similar documents. Tak v bowes departed concludes with modern instructions to make each of the braids; original errors have been corrected and noted, and each braid is clearly illustrated for reference. The instructions are provided as both text and diagrams, and include a detailed overview of the technique of 'fingerloop braiding' for those new to this skill. For further information and to order your advance copy, visit http://www.takvbowes.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 14:14:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJEmAO009444 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:14:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJEvnq001752; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:15:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MJEXC5027705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:14:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MJEMAk002283; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:14:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.131]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MH4mLF082334 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:04:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ctrvlyfarm@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 60075 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 17:04:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=yYkEkS8UKVUJOcexLC7HwCkU83AcpD7gMBoVw8Bn5l2VFWKe0Irzp56AgyE1wDLIaYOaWJdleeZW29Ljb6z50mXlQhWuwwUc7CiGZhHK5g8l8++zKz7F/e6spgXfGdp64kRQ80Q2PiPVvmVG4i6Yw+nyGc03pB+iuT3M5i5jqwc= ; Message-ID: <20060322170443.60073.qmail@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.218.205.50] by web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:04:43 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:04:43 -0800 (PST) From: REBECCA BURCH Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20060322074355.02e722a0@incoming.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:15:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421A231.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Okay, I can't stand it anymore. Where is this lecture? Is there a mailing list to get on for notices for things like this and the big conference somebody mentioned in Michigan? Kalamazoo, maybe? My husband will not thank you for this information, since I am truly getting addicted to this researching. He was resigned to the state of my workroom before, but now that it is starting to overflow into the front parlor I begin to see fear in his eyes. --- Nancy Millis-MacHaffie wrote: > At 11:12 PM 3/21/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > > > > Robin, we are so looking forward to your visit > this weekend--it's all > > > we've been talking about! :D > > > >Whoa. That's scary! :-D > > > >--R. > This will make you really nervous Robin. :D > > I keep waking up thinking "3 more days!" > > Serious question: Are you going to bring any copies > of your book(s) for sale? > > Nancy MM > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 14:15:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJFVhI009484 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:15:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJFeRm032011; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:15:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MJFSQs027896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:15:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MJFRBe003469; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:15:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com ([71.197.44.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MJEq9d002826 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:14:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.1.102]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:11:34 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] simplicity Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:15:00 -0600 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <003701c64de4$ea6074f0$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <2b2.6fab9c8.31519199@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1830 Thread-Index: AcZNDQH+CcOnlSh7S9yfuB6y8BwcNgA17b5A X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 19:11:34.0776 (UTC) FILETIME=[6FA75F80:01C64DE4] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:15:43 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421A25C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I seem to recall "queue" or something similar used for the Chinese immigrants in California. Just my .02 lira, Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 11:28 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity ***************** True true. Except there's no bag or "cue" [I can't remember or find anywhere the real spelling of "cue" when it refers to a pony tail] in the picture. It looks very 1820s. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 14:16:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJG8iO009512 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:16:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJGHUD005973; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:16:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MJG0Fj027996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:16:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MJFt9K003931; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:15:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MGc0Te055302 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 37so401325wra for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:38:00 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=tJTs4mkwldT/sKd/EsBtJgad1nb+Z1qps4Z89p+HU8/W7hoNbkD5+fdG+8GcFwJCmbpnUQyaxBJdUrXpdEA06pgiRylgfEjIk/FODrOoKjTMhUwpbc0vAjEAMhdBw4qs0Cqdb12UvhiftqAbrtZKsgeW7IOkPUVczvTC4Ux8FZQ= Received: by 10.54.65.14 with SMTP id n14mr700739wra; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:38:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603220838x708103car65e31da941410550@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:38:00 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <002001c64dcb$fcfdf740$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> <002001c64dcb$fcfdf740$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:16:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421A281.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2MJG8iO009512 Status: RO Someone posted a link to the cover picture, not the one inside that you had described for me. Suzi has sent me a scan of the page in question, so I have both images in my collection now. every bit of information that I can find about the dolls is really wonderful. Oh and to make this really historical costume related, these dolls in these images aren't fashion dolls. Fashion dolls didn't really come into common use until the mid-17th or later centuries. Everything I've found with dolls from the 16th and early 17th century show the doll matching it's owner, so an English girl's doll wears English styles, the German girl's doll wears German styles and the Spanish girl's doll wears Spanish styles. If anyone has something different I'd love to see it! alex On 3/22/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hi, > I get a little confused now. The cover book picture, shows 3 girls. First > girl carries grapes in her right hand, second girl has pears and the > little > girl a doll. > > Bjarne > > The picture asked for was inside, and only in black and white. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Suzi Clarke" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Book on Lace Question > > > > At 13:10 22/03/2006, you wrote: > >>Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : > >> > >>>Hi Susan, > >>>This is the picture on the cover of the book, the other one is inside > the > >>>book. > >>>So its not this one, unfortunately. > >> > >>That one was so tiny, if it *was* the correct picture, I don't know how > >>much good it would have been. Sounds like when I finish this > >>dissertation, I'm going to have to ILL this book too. My library > >>doesn't have it. > > > > > > The description of the picture on the front cover is as follows > "Portrait > > of three young girls, circle of Robert Peake, c. 1620" > > > > The relevant picture is of three children. The boy on the left carries a > > whip, or gloves - the picture is not very clear. The child in the > middle, > > a girl, carries a doll, and the third girl seems to be holding the > younger > > girl's leading strings. This is the one that matches the description > that > > Bjarne gave, and not the coloured one recently shown. (I've wiped all > the > > previous correspondence - sorry.) > > > > Alexandria, I can scan this for you if it would help? > > > > Suzi > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 14:18:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJI4Qb009572 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:18:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJID4k003331; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:18:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MJFEKK027825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:15:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MJFCbg003197; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:15:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MGI1tF034655 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:18:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23507 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:49:59 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:49:57 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 280 In-Reply-To: <20060322160544.9417.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:18:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421A2F5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Kahlara wrote: > I haven't yet established an SCA name and will be wearing modern > garb....and will have my sometimes reticent, sometimes talk your ear > off fiance in tow. Don't take it personally if he stands to one side > and glowers. Oh, good, a man. It's nice to get men in the room! Tell him that my father, husband, and father-in-law (all engineers) were surprised to find that they enjoyed my lectures because I explained the structural engineering aspects of clothing construction; they all said it was the first time they found sewing interesting. Although it was a little weird to be demonstrating the bust-supporting aspects of the fitted dress when you know your parents *and* your in-laws are in the audience (which happened a year or two ago, when I finally gave the series within driving distance of our hometown). Try telling your mom that you go on these weekend trips so that you can jump up and down on a stage while a roomful of paying customers stare at your bosom... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 14:31:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJVMHs010013 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:31:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJVVa9010258; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:31:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MJUZ3n030413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:30:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MJUQRB018604; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:30:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MJUL7K018420 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:30:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.34e.63bd12 (16335) for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:30:12 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <34e.63bd12.3152ffc4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:30:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:31:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421A613.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/22/2006 2:15:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, betsy@softwareinnovation.com writes: I seem to recall "queue" That's the word! No wonder I couldn't remember how to spell it...it has 3 different letters and 2 of them repeat in the same order....right after each other! :-P Yes, in school we called a man's 18th century wig with a pony tail a "queue wig"....and the bag a "queue bag". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 14:49:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJn4Sa010592 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:49:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MJnCEC019047; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:49:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MJma9s032849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:48:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MJmQp9034248; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:48:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37314.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37314.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.87.52]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MJm3pC033860 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:48:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 107 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 19:41:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=yzhPx5jRYU5h3sR4/ogKOuAM4dHyIHGrDRuAVOZIpk05aSLy+0itJ6e1VO254E4H0RPlpcwNMSrJs6vJw71nx1a0UpqJ0YhQ8SGoIvYcMt1pi1jVp7RYY4Kc5OF5HIfuEy/IWLo60ft8qmzHylWDaXKtZ6e3jJrbHHwWyc+LqRo= ; Message-ID: <20060322194116.105.qmail@web37314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:41:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060322170443.60073.qmail@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:49:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421AA38.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The lecture that Robin is discussing right now is in Oregon, not too far from Portland, as the crow flies. I'm carpooling with 2 others down from the Seattle-Tacoma area to attend. Hey, anyone else willing to have a Red "H" or something so that we can identify ourselves at the lecture? I know there were others at the Sewing and Stitchery Expo at the beginning of this month, and would have liked to have been able to meet you. Angharad/ Jonnalyhn Wolfcat _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:03:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MK2uGm011031 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:02:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MK35P5026174; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MK2Pqb034632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:02:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MK2Jdg046805; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:02:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MK26jr046518 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:02:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2MK20013978 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:02:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060322194116.105.qmail@web37314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060322194116.105.qmail@web37314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6B5319CA-E218-411A-BEBB-5F1789373DEE@alfalfapress.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:01:57 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421AD79.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Are you implying we're Red herrings? :D Actually I'm a pike. Althea On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote: > The lecture that Robin is discussing right now is in Oregon, not > too far from Portland, as the crow flies. I'm carpooling with 2 > others down from the Seattle-Tacoma area to attend. > > Hey, anyone else willing to have a Red "H" or something so that we > can identify ourselves at the lecture? I know there were others at > the Sewing and Stitchery Expo at the beginning of this month, and > would have liked to have been able to meet you. > > > > Angharad/ Jonnalyhn Wolfcat > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." William of Conches, 12th century _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:10:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKAof2011304 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:10:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKAx10030327; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:11:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKAUkH035696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:10:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKATMr053995; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:10:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MKAOX2053908 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:10:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 18248 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 20:10:14 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:10:14 -0800 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:11:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <11674.162.119.64.110.1143058275.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322182149.01d7f328@127.0.0.1> References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> <870801590603220619p2b42eer8474462c401ae1f0@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322182149.01d7f328@127.0.0.1> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:11:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book on medieval braid From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:11:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421AF53.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > From another list I use > > Suzi COOL! Thanks for sharing :~> You people are so evil.... Diana > ADVANCE NOTIFICATION > > Tak v Bowes Departed: A 15th Century Braiding Manual Examined > by Elizabeth Benns and Gina Barrett > > Tak v bowes departed is an in-depth study of Article 4, British > Library Manuscript Harley 2320. This treatise, which dates to the > fifteenth century, gives instructions for making forty different > braids of varying complexity. > > Braids such as these were used for a variety of purposes during the > medieval period; lacing clothes, purse strings, decorative trim and > seal tags. This book discusses the background of the original > manuscript; who may have owned it, how it was made, and compares the > spelling and language with other similar documents. > > Tak v bowes departed concludes with modern instructions to make each > of the braids; original errors have been corrected and noted, and > each braid is clearly illustrated for reference. The instructions are > provided as both text and diagrams, and include a detailed overview > of the technique of 'fingerloop braiding' for those new to this skill. > > > For further information and to order your advance copy, visit > http://www.takvbowes.co.uk > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:19:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKJaWi011642 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:19:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKJjqA002011; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:19:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKJWhc036892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:19:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKJVUA061927; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:19:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKJJmL061789 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:19:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25499 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:51:17 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:51:16 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list In-Reply-To: <20060322170443.60073.qmail@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:19:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421B161.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, REBECCA BURCH wrote: > Okay, I can't stand it anymore. Where is this lecture? Is there a > mailing list to get on for notices for things like this and the big > conference somebody mentioned in Michigan? Kalamazoo, maybe? OK, two different things here. Second question first. The International Congress on Medieval Studies is the world's largest interdisciplinary conference on the Middle Ages. Every May, thousands of scholars and students from around the world converge on Kalamazoo, Michigan for four days and nights of sessions and events devoted to medieval studies. This includes more than 500 sessions with an average of three paper presentations each, as well as meetings, receptions, concerts, book shopping, and more. Papers and session topics cover the full range of medieval studies, with strong emphases on literature (mostly English and other European languages), history (including political history, social history, economic history, etc.), art history, music, religion, and other traditional fields of study. Four of those 500-odd sessions are sponsored by DISTAFF, a group I organized with Gale Owen-Crocker for the sole purpose of sponsoring conference sessions on medieval dress and textiles. In addition, there are often other papers and even occasional sessions elsewhere on the Congress program that have a dress and textiles focus. This year I count eight such sessions total (including the four DISTAFF sessions) plus about a dozen individual papers scattered around other sessions. Kalamazoo is an academic conference, and geared to the academic researcher. It is not a re-enactment event. However, quite a few re-enactors who are interested in scholarly research in medieval studies do go there, with the understanding that they are there as students/scholars. The conference is hard to get to and expensive, but if this is up your alley, it is a heady and rewarding experience. Further information, including the full schedule of sessions, is at the Congress website, http://www.wmich.edu/medieval/congress/ . If you are interested in going, be aware that dorm space fills up FAST and may already be full. Preregistration ends April 15; cost at the door is slightly higher. Kalamazoo has a mailing list for sending the annual call for papers and registration materials. If you're specifically interested in costume sessions, you're welcome to e-mail me privately to get on the DISTAFF e-mail announcement list, and you'll get notices of what we're doing with our sessions both at Kalamazoo and the other major medieval conference in Leeds, England. I'll also be happy to answer questions about K'zoo via direct e-mail, but be warned I probably won't write you back till next week, since I'll be away lecturing this weekend. Which brings us to your other question. As a scholar of medieval dress and textiles, I do academic research and present my findings at conferences such as Kalamazoo. I'm not affiliated with a college or university, but occasionally I also am asked to do guest lectures. And sometimes I'm asked to speak for private groups, particularly the SCA and other costuming or re-enactment organizations. For these sorts of groups, I've taken a number of my scholarly presentations and adapted them for a re-enactor/costumer audience -- more information on construction, for instance. These are the lectures people on this list are talking about when they say they've heard me speak. Sometimes I give just one or two classes as an invited speaker at an SCA "university" event. Other times, a group brings me in to do a full day of lectures. That's what I'm doing this weekend in Portland, Oregon. The webpage about the event is here: http://www.ithra.antir.sca.org/idisplay.php?topic=classes&it=5433 ...but I'm afraid it's sold out. I always announce my public appearances on this list. You can also write me privately and tell me where you're located, and I'll put you on my list of people to contact if I'm going to be speaking in your area. If your group wants to discuss to bringing me in, e-mail me directly. --Robin ========================================================== Robin Netherton Editor, Medieval Clothing and Textiles robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1333 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:19:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKJvvQ011655 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:19:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKK6hI011011; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:20:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKJO3M036875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:19:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKJJNQ061804; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:19:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52108.mail.yahoo.com (web52108.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.111]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MKJBTW061630 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:19:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 43608 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 20:19:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=MxYvbYLa8jBjJiySbvhuhB6cl7owix7WulU52GEGMe7vwtEI7GR6LVoztzeQqDeLAWXWu8EayjeD6fpqyikJAa7BkfsOjLPpep8LdnPcc+kAcT/MsIKfDCVzClC4ZxehXKhbU2fhVXEF18BtZhRg+6oF5brg3DbAI9LQJbMccJc= ; Message-ID: <20060322201902.43606.qmail@web52108.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52108.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:19:02 EST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:19:02 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: BRITARCH List , E List , Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Drawn Wire Thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:20:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421B176.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Fortuitous tripping upon this page pretty much clears up the question I asked recently about gold wire-wrapped embroidery thread: http://www.et-tu.com/soper-lane/access/gold.htm Incidentally, written by the same woman that wrote this upcoming book: http://takvbowes.et-tu.com/index.shtml (second posting of this link, I know, ignore it if it bores you.) Kathy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:27:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKRpwv011900 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:27:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKS0Da006278; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:28:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKRgv6038153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:27:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKRa6O069235; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:27:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MKQpo9068621 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:27:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 1423 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 20:26:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2006 20:26:45 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322202603.01d8b6f0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:26:52 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] New book on medieval braid In-Reply-To: <11674.162.119.64.110.1143058275.squirrel@webmail.inreach.c om> References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> <870801590603220619p2b42eer8474462c401ae1f0@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322182149.01d7f328@127.0.0.1> <11674.162.119.64.110.1143058275.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:28:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421B350.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 20:11 22/03/2006, you wrote: > > From another list I use > > > > Suzi > >COOL! Thanks for sharing :~> You people are so evil.... Who me? Never. She has made a woven silk medieval belt for me, so I am delighted to advertise her book. Suzi >Diana > > > > ADVANCE NOTIFICATION > > > > Tak v Bowes Departed: A 15th Century Braiding Manual Examined > > by Elizabeth Benns and Gina Barrett > > > > Tak v bowes departed is an in-depth study of Article 4, British > > Library Manuscript Harley 2320. This treatise, which dates to the > > fifteenth century, gives instructions for making forty different > > braids of varying complexity. > > > > Braids such as these were used for a variety of purposes during the > > medieval period; lacing clothes, purse strings, decorative trim and > > seal tags. This book discusses the background of the original > > manuscript; who may have owned it, how it was made, and compares the > > spelling and language with other similar documents. > > > > Tak v bowes departed concludes with modern instructions to make each > > of the braids; original errors have been corrected and noted, and > > each braid is clearly illustrated for reference. The instructions are > > provided as both text and diagrams, and include a detailed overview > > of the technique of 'fingerloop braiding' for those new to this skill. > > > > > > For further information and to order your advance copy, visit > > http://www.takvbowes.co.uk > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > >www.RenaissanceFabrics.net >"Everything for the Costumer" > >"Become the change you want to see in the world." >--Ghandi > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:28:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKSgRS011936 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:28:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKSpJq017209; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:28:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKSLMN038280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:28:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKSEq6069892; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:28:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKRlEY069335 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:27:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tudorldy@aol.com) Received: from Tudorldy@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.34a.63f91b (15699) for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:27:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from FWM-D35 (fwm-d35.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.11]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID51-3d534421b338256; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:27:36 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:27:35 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81C0630B1C89E-274-485@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> From: tudorldy@aol.com References: <200603221311.k2MDB6OS078372@net.indra.com> Received: from 198.36.175.136 by FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.11) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:27:35 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603221311.k2MDB6OS078372@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.162.11 X-Spam-Flag: NO Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re:Mary QoS Inventory X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:28:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421B383.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >>what is a vaskene (long S by the way)? Hi Regina/Wanda, Long time no see, but I'll see you this weekend. My understanding is that a vasquine (or vasquina) would be a kirtle, skirt, or petticoat, (interchangeably!). So sayeth me and The Bob, amen. Best regards, Meagn (who will be there this weekend, and knew Robin when she was still in high school.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:40:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKeAPG012432 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:40:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKeJE0012901; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:40:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKcY4A039726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKcAYG079060; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:38:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MKc4ox078845 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 87574 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 20:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2006 20:37:55 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322203530.01d85de8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:38:04 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <11674.162.119.64.110.1143058275.squirrel@webmail.inreach.c om> References: <870801590603211210p668a38cbrb3fa192c4c90af8f@mail.gmail.com> <000601c64d26$1feb5410$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211245v52bf459fvc681427579cf5792@mail.gmail.com> <000d01c64d33$3de2ea70$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <870801590603211616y70e4725frb09c32c22e84099d@mail.gmail.com> <20060321200006.qvk7vumvreu8kgg0@www.goldsword.com> <20060321200246.ov91aczjovwgsokw@www.goldsword.com> <001601c64d8d$96827f60$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <20060322081055.mcgvhn467eo0sokw@www.goldsword.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322135856.01d8c628@127.0.0.1> <870801590603220619p2b42eer8474462c401ae1f0@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060322182149.01d7f328@127.0.0.1> <11674.162.119.64.110.1143058275.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Society Journal, No.7 U.K. version X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:40:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421B633.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO If anyone has a copy of the Costume Society Journal number 7, with the pattern of the boy's 18th century suit, please could you contact me - I can't find mine, and I need the pattern slightly urgently!! (Or at least some information from the pattern.) Suzi, panicking slightly! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:40:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKeKXc012446 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:40:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKeTDU025718; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:40:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKe7Wv040142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:40:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKe6qH080954; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:40:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKdpiq080729 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:39:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25747 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:11:47 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:11:45 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:Mary QoS Inventory In-Reply-To: <8C81C0630B1C89E-274-485@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:40:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421B63D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 tudorldy@aol.com wrote: > Meagn (who will be there this weekend, and knew Robin when she was > still in high school.) Ohmygoodness -- I've known only one person who spells her name that way! Yes, Meagn knew me when I was a ditzy teenager. And hasn't seen me for more than a quarter of a century. Oh, I'm looking forward to this weekend. I don't think I've ever had an audience where I've "known" this many people. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:54:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKsW0Z012953 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:54:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKsfrJ020283; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:54:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKoSQo041432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKTxNm071517; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:30:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav13.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKTg6s071212 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:29:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:29:36 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.61.224 by BAY106-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:29:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.61.224] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060322170443.60073.qmail@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:29:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:29:42 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 20:29:36.0902 (UTC) FILETIME=[566B1A60:01C64DEF] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:54:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421B991.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2MKsW0Z012953 Status: RO the big conference somebody mentioned in Michigan? Kalamazoo, maybe? Here is the link to the Medieval Congress in Kalamazoo http://www.wmich.edu/medieval/congress/ . This is a major event for medieval scholars from around the world that takes place every year in early May. An organization called DISTAFF (founded in part by Robin) has actively worked for several years to give medieval costuming research a presence there. You will find the full list of sessions on the web site but a couple of the interesting ones are: "Old Clothes, New Tools I: Computer-Related Tools for the Study of Dress and Clothing Culture" "Dress and Textiles IV: Headwear" "Personal Effects: What They Carried and What They Wore" "Dress and Textiles I: Weaving and Spinning" and several more costume ones and a great many non-costume ones depending on what other interests you have. There are also dozens of booksellers. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 15:54:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKssGM012972 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:54:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MKt3b4004001; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:55:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKoSQm041432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:54:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKK5QR062520; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:20:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.pacifier.net (smtp1.pacifier.net [64.255.237.171]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKJtvb062305 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:19:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Scourney@nwlink.com) Received: from sc (ip157.usw235.dsl-acs2.sea.iinet.com [207.202.235.157]) by smtp1.pacifier.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C37A570CC4; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:19:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <008501c64def$0de39920$0300a8c0@sc> From: "Susan" To: "Historical Costume" , References: <20060322194116.105.qmail@web37314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list (at the lecture in Portland) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:27:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:55:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421B9A7.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > The lecture that Robin is discussing right now is in Oregon, not too far from Portland, as the crow flies. I'm carpooling with 2 others down from the Seattle-Tacoma area to attend. > > Hey, anyone else willing to have a Red "H" or something so that we can identify ourselves at the lecture? I know there were others at the Sewing and Stitchery Expo at the beginning of this month, and would have liked to have been able to meet you. > > I'll be coming down from Seattle for the lecture as well, but am spending the rest of the weekend at a gaming con. I think that a red H is a good idea - I'd just have to find time to make one :-) Susan Paraventur > > Angharad/ Jonnalyhn Wolfcat > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 16:00:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ML0M4L013134 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:00:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ML0VRZ023168; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:00:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MKxcEt042927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKxUIw098830; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:59:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MKxFQS098585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:59:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k2MKxAPr020019 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:59:13 -0500 Received: from 72.13.239.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:59:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <62262.72.13.239.193.1143061154.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <20060322194116.105.qmail@web37314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060322170443.60073.qmail@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060322194116.105.qmail@web37314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:59:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:00:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421BAEF.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > Hey, anyone else willing to have a Red "H" or something so that we can > identify ourselves at the lecture? We did this a couple years back at a Costume Society of America meeting. I brought a red Sharpie marker with me and it was easy for list members to write a red "H" on their name badges. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 16:50:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MLo1Br015427 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:50:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MLo9gB013908; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:50:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MLnM7n050318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:49:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MLnAVk046538; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:49:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.87.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MLn4tE046361 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:49:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 67748 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 21:48:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cAnloN359XAY2r8C40NsZ58aK2bJ3Wags7EwqqAtxx4Czi7jNJ/LqgAFqsZojo5rv0Wbno6kRXV/1EJPSjwbGoc7BgiPxqeCZEPcg5urFR1bnRbhc2Fgo5nW9nQLOf8OSazRVgXV/woaQvFw0IVfDYlVYobusTn2njdnZD2bYtU= ; Message-ID: <20060322214854.67746.qmail@web37302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:48:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6B5319CA-E218-411A-BEBB-5F1789373DEE@alfalfapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:50:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421C691.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Well, we can't be holograms, or the class wouldn't be sold out! *grin* Angharad/ Jonnalyhn Wolfcat (who will resist the urge to place the H on her forehead) ----- Original Message ---- From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:01:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list Are you implying we're Red herrings? :D Actually I'm a pike. Althea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 16:59:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MLwuLC015732 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:58:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MLx5r6017704; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:59:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MLwdfM051415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:58:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MLwb9f055322; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:58:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MLwV2j055093 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:58:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCCDUDLAQ68RPJ for (sender ); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:58:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LK4NFDNF; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:57:05 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:51:31 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list Message-ID: <20060322.135625.1592.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 3:4:1848283658 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgjEQYKgBEgTlFrjOSIRuXXc= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:59:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421C8A9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > Hey, anyone else willing to have a Red "H" or something so that we > can identify ourselves at the lecture? I know there were others at > the Sewing and Stitchery Expo at the beginning of this month, and > would have liked to have been able to meet you. > > > > Angharad/ Jonnalyhn Wolfcat Regina's cooking up something in that regard.... ;) Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 17:51:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MMpLVv017546 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:51:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MMpUQ0008704; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:51:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MMouat061873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:50:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MMom69005270; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:50:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s2.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s2.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MMohxB005059 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:50:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrscakehole@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.246.254]) by bay0-omc3-s2.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:50:37 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:50:37 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:50:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [81.158.52.66] X-Originating-Email: [mrscakehole@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mrscakehole@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603222151.k2MLosMW048123@net.indra.com> From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:50:33 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 22:50:37.0662 (UTC) FILETIME=[096C9FE0:01C64E03] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Costume Society Journal X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:51:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421D4F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My back issues don't go back that far, but they have a full set in our college library and I'll be there tomorrow - I'll take a copy of it and the associated info, so if you still need it by tomorrow night, I'll be able to help. Kate >From: Suzi Clarke >Subject: [h-cost] Costume Society Journal, No.7 U.K. version >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322203530.01d85de8@127.0.0.1> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >If anyone has a copy of the Costume Society Journal number 7, with >the pattern of the boy's 18th century suit, please could you contact >me - I can't find mine, and I need the pattern slightly urgently!! >(Or at least some information from the pattern.) > >Suzi, panicking slightly! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 18:03:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MN34IP017870 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:03:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MN3Deo013761; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:03:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MN2cLK064778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:02:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MN2WCT017049; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:02:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MM3cs4060176 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:03:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rwfranz@hotpop.com) Received: from titan (titan.cvip.net [129.8.220.33]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA6D5E62E for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (cvip-dsl-206-90.cvip.net [129.8.206.90]) by titan.cvip.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.04 (built Feb 8 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IWJ00BUVULXIE@titan.cvip.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:03:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:03:33 +0000 From: rwfranz Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kalamazoo conference In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4421C9B5.6000105@hotpop.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051226) References: X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:03:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421D7B1.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >Kalamazoo is an academic conference, and geared to the academic >researcher. It is not a re-enactment event. However, quite a few >re-enactors who are interested in scholarly research in medieval studies >do go there, with the understanding that they are there as >students/scholars. The conference is hard to get to and expensive, but if >this is up your alley, it is a heady and rewarding experience. > > The $125 registration fee is not that expensive. I know I've paid quite a bit more than that to go to some conferences in other fields of study. It's a bit daunting to pay for the hotel room and travel expenses, but really, it's not as bad as all that, especially if you partner with someone else for the hotel room. And if I was in Kalamazoo or within a few hours of there that weekend, I'd go. Just looking through the list of sessions, I'd have a hard time deciding which sessions to attend, but I'd go. The "Old Clothes, New Tools" sessions are rather enticing, but there are a host of others I'd love to attend also. Roger _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 18:04:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MN4qtG017929 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:04:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MN516r019721; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:05:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MN4CGc065095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:04:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MN48Hg018669; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:04:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f17.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MM5bVI061834 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:05:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:05:30 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:05:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [83.105.84.119] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <441F63C3.4070700@uvm.edu> From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:05:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Mar 2006 22:05:30.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBC07F10:01C64DFC] X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tudor costumes for "dummies"? Help for a theatrical group X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.179]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:05:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421D81D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Right, my question/dilemma is this: There is a very nice theatrical "amateur dramatics" group in my new Scottish hometown near Edinburgh, called the Linithgow Players. In the summer months they do plays dressed in Tudor costume at Linlithgow Palace, the birthplace of Mary, Queen of Scots. They set place at the Court of James V and act out scenes with Mary, all for Historic Scotland (very similar to the National Trust or English Heritage). Anywya, that said, the costumes are.. ermm... uhm... not so very good, to be kind. I offered, because I just moved here on my own three weeks ago (my partner's still serving and staioned 500 miles away *sniff*) and would like to get stuck in with costumes and people and to have something nice to do, to help with their costumes. That's all very well, but, while I know a hellofa lot about clothing 1660 - 1715 I know next to nothing about Tudor costumes. HELP! I am ordering Ninya's book, but as Teddy said rightly, this is a theatrical group, we don't need to nor want to make it authentic (they wouldn't even have the budget for that) but to make it look GOOD and make it look better than it is now. Bless them, some costumes are quite nice, but others, I think, we could definitely do something about that and I would love to help and get the needle going (and spend some time in the pub with company ;-) This is their photo page: http://www.linlithgowplayers.org.uk/LPsite/PhotosRe-enactments.htm Don't let yourself be fooled by the "reenactment" bit, I don't think they got the terminology quite right. It's definitely acting, not re-enacting and we would see it. :-) Anyway, I don't know where to start, I feel lost in a jungle of Too Much Information. Can anyone, please pleae please point me into the right direction of where to start getting a really good feel for Tudor period costumes and, most importantly, which patterns could be adapted (I have Margo Anderson's Lady's wardrobe and Man's wardrobe) and if I can even use some commercial big companies patterns, because those are usually quite easy. Any and all help appreciated, I'd love it if I could help them get the look a bit more right and at the same time do it on a tiny (!!!) budget and a shoestring with only four hands to help (another lady's and mine - and I'm actually overworked at my new work anyway thus haven't got 'that' much time). Thanks ever so much in advance, I really am drowning in websites, books, info, and just don't know where to start and where to go to for a theatrical good looking budget version (it has to be court costume) of Tudor costume. Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 18:20:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MNKZGa018489 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:20:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MNKiuX021816; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:20:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MNKG6s067965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:20:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MNKFxf033741; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:20:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k2MNK9Sh033599 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:20:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 93256 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 23:20:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.39.31 with login) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2006 23:20:03 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060322231751.01df8348@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:20:03 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Costume Society Journal In-Reply-To: References: <200603222151.k2MLosMW048123@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:20:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421DBCC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 22:50 22/03/2006, you wrote: >My back issues don't go back that far, but they have a full set in >our college library and I'll be there tomorrow - I'll take a copy of >it and the associated info, so if you still need it by tomorrow >night, I'll be able to help. Kate, I now have a copy of the pattern, the important bit, but if you could copy the article I would really appreciate it. Are you the lady in Kent - are you a member of the Kent Costume Trust - have we met? (I was at the 17th century study day in Maidstone last year.) >Kate > > >> >> >>If anyone has a copy of the Costume Society Journal number 7, with >>the pattern of the boy's 18th century suit, please could you contact >>me - I can't find mine, and I need the pattern slightly urgently!! >>(Or at least some information from the pattern.) >> >>Suzi, panicking slightly! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 18:41:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MNfSiD019697 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:41:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2MNfbYI030513; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:41:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MNfOZ1071678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:41:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MNfLJx052780; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:41:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MNfHhp052566 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:41:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Tudorldy@aol.com) Received: from Tudorldy@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2cf.5bf36f9 (15699) for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:41:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from FWM-D20 (fwm-d20.webmail.aol.com [205.188.160.212]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID51-3d534421e09515b; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:41:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:41:09 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81C213B224D8C-3F4-43D6@FWM-D20.sysops.aol.com> From: tudorldy@aol.com References: <200603222151.k2MLosMW048123@net.indra.com> Received: from 198.36.175.136 by FWM-D20.sysops.aol.com (205.188.160.212) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:41:09 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603222151.k2MLosMW048123@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:Mary QoS Inventory Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.160.212 X-Spam-Flag: NO Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:41:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421E0B1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >>> Meagn (who will be there this weekend, and knew Robin when she was >>> still in high school.) >>Ohmygoodness -- I've known only one person who spells her name that way! >>Yes, Meagn knew me when I was a ditzy teenager. And hasn't seen me for >>more than a quarter of a century. >>Oh, I'm looking forward to this weekend. I don't think I've ever had an >>audience where I've "known" this many people. >>--Robin One in the same. You were no ditzier than any of us, then! Keep in mind I was in a rather turbulent phase of my early 20s at the time. I admit to more than a bit of passing envy (the good sort) for what you've been able to do with clothing history; my own work has been limited by personal circumstances. I'm looking forward to the lecture - I know you'll be swamped there, but you'll get a smile from me. I understand you look no different now than you did then, too! Meagn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 20:02:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N129vK022586 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:02:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N12I2R031217; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:02:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N11d9r009093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:01:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N11cUB022623; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:01:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N11Yk5022534 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:01:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27864 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:33:31 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:33:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kalamazoo conference In-Reply-To: <4421C9B5.6000105@hotpop.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:02:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421F39B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, rwfranz wrote: > The $125 registration fee is not that expensive. I know I've paid > quite a bit more than that to go to some conferences in other fields > of study. It's a bit daunting to pay for the hotel room and travel > expenses, but really, it's not as bad as all that, especially if you > partner with someone else for the hotel room. For those who don't mind spartan accommodations, the dorms are cheap and have the advantage of being smack in the middle of the action. If you have very good fortune, you get a dorm room in the same building that houses the book rooms, a sprawling orgy of medieval delights. > And if I was in Kalamazoo or within a few hours of there that weekend, > I'd go. Just looking through the list of sessions, I'd have a hard > time deciding which sessions to attend, but I'd go. The "Old Clothes, > New Tools" sessions are rather enticing, but there are a host of > others I'd love to attend also. Beth McMahon, the organizer of the OCNT sessions, is a sometime member of this list and a DISTAFF member (and past speaker) from way back. We are both very happy that the Institute granted our request not to cross-schedule her sessions with the DISTAFF track! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 20:10:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N1AKMU022841 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:10:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N1ATDW002129; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:10:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1AHF9009923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:10:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1AH1s029164; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:10:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav16.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N19ms1028770 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:10:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from luann_mason@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:09:46 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.32.242.61 by BAY106-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:09:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.32.242.61] X-Originating-Email: [luann_mason@msn.com] X-Sender: luann_mason@msn.com From: "LuAnn Mason" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060322170443.60073.qmail@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:09:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0026.0800 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:09:41 -0800 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 01:09:46.0327 (UTC) FILETIME=[799DCE70:01C64E16] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Robin in PORTLAND this weekend... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:10:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421F585.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2N1AKMU022841 Status: RO Okay, I figured I better change the subject line. I'll be driving down I-5 from Southwest Washington to Forest Grove on Saturday. Anyone in Vancouver/Portland that would like to carpool, please contact me privately. I hate to take my big 15 passenger van down there with just me in it. LuAnn in Washington State _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 20:15:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N1FSMN023025 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:15:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N1FbNs004064; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:15:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1FFKt010662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:15:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1FGCB033152; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:15:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1FDI4033110 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:15:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so620099wri for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:15:12 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=bVPKEDWiA0aE2rUlDd46psgXic4Dk+QIkSx6dV0I4Eiu9rFE5KCK/9/Ckf6RLi7mK0PMM7K9T08dR9MAyS+AW7awhvWEQL+EfZyUzYubg8H2T2T198AsplDMK+UxPXek5OOCpEy9UAWbwRIZrZirxVH4RzAv740i72qhbOdXjVM= Received: by 10.54.146.15 with SMTP id t15mr150956wrd; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.156.11 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:15:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603221715r82e327ctb8c390244d9d93e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:15:11 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Book on Lace Question In-Reply-To: <870801590603211432n2eb0791cp7a7ba64cf166f836@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <200603212046.k2LKkTWI044240@net.indra.com> <8C81B4C54EF5050-1A04-1B44@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> <870801590603211432n2eb0791cp7a7ba64cf166f836@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:15:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421F6B9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2N1FSMN023025 Status: RO On 3/21/06, Alexandria Doyle wrote: > > I have posted the majority of my image collection on the Yahoo group > "Miniature Costumers Guild" in the photo section under "Alexandria - 16th C > Doll art" > For those that wanted to see the images from the lace book I've posted the new image, of "James 1 family" and the cover painting, "GLarkin" to this group, the doll art photo. Thanks for all the help from everyone in indentifying and locating copies of these two painting. Alexandria _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 20:46:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N1kdTO024010 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:46:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N1knWc016167; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:46:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1kBT8013685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:46:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1kAtp056433; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:46:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1k7kt056361 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:46:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACB815303F2; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:41:12 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor costumes for "dummies"? Help for a theatrical group Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:46:28 -0800 Message-ID: <002001c64e1b$9a850450$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2N1k7kt056361 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:46:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421FE09.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO "Historic costume for the Stage" by Lucy Barton, is a great place to start. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Nicole Kipar Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:05 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Tudor costumes for "dummies"? Help for a theatrical group Right, my question/dilemma is this: There is a very nice theatrical "amateur dramatics" group in my new Scottish hometown near Edinburgh, called the Linithgow Players. In the summer months they do plays dressed in Tudor costume at Linlithgow Palace, the birthplace of Mary, Queen of Scots. They set place at the Court of James V and act out scenes with Mary, all for Historic Scotland (very similar to the National Trust or English Heritage). Anywya, that said, the costumes are.. ermm... uhm... not so very good, to be kind. I offered, because I just moved here on my own three weeks ago (my partner's still serving and staioned 500 miles away *sniff*) and would like to get stuck in with costumes and people and to have something nice to do, to help with their costumes. That's all very well, but, while I know a hellofa lot about clothing 1660 - 1715 I know next to nothing about Tudor costumes. HELP! I am ordering Ninya's book, but as Teddy said rightly, this is a theatrical group, we don't need to nor want to make it authentic (they wouldn't even have the budget for that) but to make it look GOOD and make it look better than it is now. Bless them, some costumes are quite nice, but others, I think, we could definitely do something about that and I would love to help and get the needle going (and spend some time in the pub with company ;-) This is their photo page: http://www.linlithgowplayers.org.uk/LPsite/PhotosRe-enactments.htm Don't let yourself be fooled by the "reenactment" bit, I don't think they got the terminology quite right. It's definitely acting, not re-enacting and we would see it. :-) Anyway, I don't know where to start, I feel lost in a jungle of Too Much Information. Can anyone, please pleae please point me into the right direction of where to start getting a really good feel for Tudor period costumes and, most importantly, which patterns could be adapted (I have Margo Anderson's Lady's wardrobe and Man's wardrobe) and if I can even use some commercial big companies patterns, because those are usually quite easy. Any and all help appreciated, I'd love it if I could help them get the look a bit more right and at the same time do it on a tiny (!!!) budget and a shoestring with only four hands to help (another lady's and mine - and I'm actually overworked at my new work anyway thus haven't got 'that' much time). Thanks ever so much in advance, I really am drowning in websites, books, info, and just don't know where to start and where to go to for a theatrical good looking budget version (it has to be court costume) of Tudor costume. Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 20:53:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N1rQUc024220 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:53:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N1rZMF018955; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:53:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1qxK9014395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:52:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1qwcO061509; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:52:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N1qsaC061457 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:52:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE508A5027E; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:48:00 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:53:16 -0800 Message-ID: <002101c64e1c$8d8b3840$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <870801590603221715r82e327ctb8c390244d9d93e1@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2N1qsaC061457 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:Address? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:53:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4421FF9F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO How do I get to that site, please? If I go to Yahoo.com, and put in "miniature costumers guild", I don't get it. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Alexandria Doyle Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:15 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Book on Lace Question On 3/21/06, Alexandria Doyle wrote: > > I have posted the majority of my image collection on the Yahoo group > "Miniature Costumers Guild" in the photo section under "Alexandria - > 16th C Doll art" > For those that wanted to see the images from the lace book I've posted the new image, of "James 1 family" and the cover painting, "GLarkin" to this group, the doll art photo. Thanks for all the help from everyone in indentifying and locating copies of these two painting. Alexandria _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 21:42:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N2gARG026264 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:42:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N2gI8c005944; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:42:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N2fV8H019912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N2fUlc096229; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N2fRec096096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FMFlH-0000ZM-GC; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:41:19 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:41:19 -0500 Message-ID: <20060322214119.jarv8vmc9e88so4s@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:41:19 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: dolls -- mini costume guild (was Re: [h-cost] RE:Address? References: <002101c64e1c$8d8b3840$0300a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <002101c64e1c$8d8b3840$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:42:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44220B0A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting "Sharon at Collierfam.com" : > How do I get to that site, please? If I go to Yahoo.com, and put in > "miniature costumers guild", I don't get it. I don't think that this has been answered yet, but it's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mini_costume_guild Susan ---- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 21:52:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N2qpR0026861 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:52:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N2r1S7010165; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:53:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N2qYeZ021064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:52:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N2qYgR003824; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:52:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao03.cox.net (eastrmmtao03.cox.net [68.230.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N2qTqx003734 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:52:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mischele1@cox.net) Received: from Mischele ([68.1.71.52]) by eastrmmtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20060323025215.JWZE29285.eastrmmtao03.cox.net@Mischele> for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:52:15 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01c64e24$d685f410$34470144@Mischele> From: "mischele1" To: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:52:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] houpelande fabric? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:53:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44220D8D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2N2qpR0026861 Status: RO What would be a good fabric to use to make a houpelande? Is taffeta too stiff to use? This would be for a man's, thigh length and perhaps bag or wing type sleeves. Thanks for your input, in advance. Lyonet (delurking for a moment) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 22:08:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N38oEU027834 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:08:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N38xZU016685; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:09:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N38dsr023838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N38cDI014711; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:08:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N38ZdE014662 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:08:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m97.in-tch.com [216.166.191.97]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2N2xbA18843 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:59:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <000d01c64e28$17d17860$61bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:15:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:09:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4422114C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO You sure did when I flew to Boise to see you! --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list > > On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Nancy Millis-MacHaffie wrote: > > > This will make you really nervous Robin. :D > > > > I keep waking up thinking "3 more days!" > > Oh, gee. I hope I live up to expectations! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 22 22:44:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N3i6uS030293 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:44:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N3iFhC030759; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:44:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N3hiOc027883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:43:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N3heov039433; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N3hYre039342 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:43:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29259 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:15:32 -0600 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:15:30 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Again on the Portland lectures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:44:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4422198F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO When I looked yesterday they were sold out ... but there appear to have been some cancellations. Three spaces showing right now. I don't know if there's a waiting list already, but if you missed out and want to go, now is the time to check with the event planners. Info here: http://www.ithra.antir.sca.org/idisplay.php?topic=classes&it=5433 --Robin packing frantically _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 00:51:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N5pDMC002416 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:51:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N5pMvM009904; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:51:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N5onZ2040257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:50:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N5ohZY024857; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:50:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N5ocIr024699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:50:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2N7ZjXf021897 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 02:35:45 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:56:01 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603230056.01208.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] NESAT IV X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:51:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4422375A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I telephoned David Brown Book Company, the American affiliate of Oxbow Books, to find out whether they could get any more copies of NESAT IV, which they had been advertising on their website about a year ago. I was told that they still had 3 copies. So I ordered one. However, that leaves two other copies. I mention this in case anyone on this list has been looking for this increasingly hard-to-find work. The price is about $66 USD. -- Cathy Raymond "I'm starting to like the cut of this man's gibberish." --General Fillmore (from "The Tick," episode 2) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 01:01:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N612ih002692 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:01:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N61BV1012811; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:01:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N60e9h040927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:00:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N60e6o030959; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:00:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com ([71.197.44.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N60aKp030920 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:00:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.1.102]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:57:19 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] houpelande fabric? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:00:35 -0600 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <007001c64e3f$1a2b0150$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <001c01c64e24$d685f410$34470144@Mischele> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1830 Thread-Index: AcZOJRiXCRu0qbnWSjeu06DRt/LkmQAGa/qA X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 05:57:19.0959 (UTC) FILETIME=[A5951E70:01C64E3E] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 01:01:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442239A7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Do not overlook the upholstery/drapery section of your fabric store- Heavier weights, but good/large patterns, and reasonably "flowy" drape -just avoid the ones with the rubber/vinyl backing! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of mischele1 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:53 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] houpelande fabric? What would be a good fabric to use to make a houpelande? Is taffeta too stiff to use? This would be for a man's, thigh length and perhaps bag or wing type sleeves. Thanks for your input, in advance. Lyonet (delurking for a moment) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 04:41:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N9f2oT007841 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:41:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2N9fBgg023993; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:41:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N9emcI058680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 02:40:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N9ebUl068668; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 02:40:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2N9eW2M068462 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 02:40:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2N9ePq24401.; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:40:25 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:40:25 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:40:09 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] simplicity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2N9eW2M068462 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:41:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44226D37.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO That's right - it's the French for "tail". In the UK we also use it for what Americans call "standing in line". Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> AlbertCat@aol.com 22/03/2006 19:30 >>> In a message dated 3/22/2006 2:15:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, betsy@softwareinnovation.com writes: I seem to recall "queue" That's the word! No wonder I couldn't remember how to spell it...it has 3 different letters and 2 of them repeat in the same order....right after each other! :-P Yes, in school we called a man's 18th century wig with a pony tail a "queue wig"....and the bag a "queue bag". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 06:15:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NBF9QR028181 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:15:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NBFIYw025331; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:15:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NBEt5x080955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:14:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NBEqkJ026154; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:14:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay109-f39.bay109.hotmail.com [64.4.19.49]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NBEn14026094 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:14:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mrscakehole@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:14:45 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.19.200 by by109fd.bay109.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:14:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [195.195.72.117] X-Originating-Email: [mrscakehole@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mrscakehole@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200603230343.k2N3hf4A039450@net.indra.com> From: "Kate Cole" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:14:41 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 11:14:45.0921 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDDC4910:01C64E6A] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] smell of spiral steel boning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:15:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44228346.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have a reel of uncut spiral steel boning that I've had for a while, still in the bag the shop put it in. I took it out last night because I want to use it for a wedding dress I'm making for a friend, but it seems to have a really strong, acrid smell to it. I know it will be in a casing and below a couple of layers of fabric, but as it's a wedding dress I don't really want the bride to be able to smell it! Has anyone else had this problem and is there a solution? I don't want to clean it with WD40 or anything, as obviously that could leave marks on the fabric. Would it help if I just "aired" it? Any ideas gratefully received. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 07:25:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCPDGV013984 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:25:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCPMUH020190; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:25:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCOxkv085652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:24:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCOudL065806; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:24:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCOqta065762 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:24:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail1.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D367130D9D for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:24:50 +1100 (EST) Received: from 220-253-122-254.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-122-254.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.122.254]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:24:50 +1100 Message-ID: <1143116690.4422939264f6c@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:24:50 +1100 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] smell of spiral steel boning References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:25:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 442293B2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Belive it or not, metal has a smell. Providing your supplier has not done something you are not aware of, this is normal. Give it a rub with a soft cloth then let it air, -C. > I have a reel of uncut spiral steel boning that I've had for a while, still > in the bag the shop put it in. , but it seems to have a > really strong, acrid smell to it. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 07:28:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCSPRQ014049 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:28:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCSYES021492; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:28:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCSAEE085934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:28:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCSAHB067591; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:28:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCS7sW067531 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:28:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55db.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.219]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0BA1D26286E for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:28:01 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000d01c64e75$41a72110$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:28:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:28:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44229472.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, I have uploaded some pictures of the jacket i am working on for my girl friend in Sweden. This bodice i have drafted after a girls jacket in a danish museum. The peplum skirt is gathered to the bodice on the girls jacket, but i am not sure if i should do this on a grown up ladys jacket? http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/jacket.html I have drawn on the muslin, how i want the embroidery to look like. I need to add the sleave frills, 2 but it will come later. The bodice is laced over the stomacher for closing. What do you think i should, gather or pleat? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 07:41:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCfAqW014385 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:41:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCfJtH026976; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:41:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCexCs086832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:40:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCeuOJ075460; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCemq8075341 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:40:42 -0800 Message-ID: <4422974E.1020808@msn.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:40:46 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden References: <000d01c64e75$41a72110$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000d01c64e75$41a72110$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 12:40:42.0989 (UTC) FILETIME=[FFB669D0:01C64E76] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:41:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4422976F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Pleats or gathers where? Sleeves or peplum? Gathers for the sleeves, pleats for the peplum is my vote! Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Sg Who wishes she had a boyfriend like Bjarne! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 07:48:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCmeDO014603 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:48:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCmnH0030193; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:48:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCmb57087283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:48:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCmaYF080162; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:48:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCmWoF080126 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:48:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55db.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.219]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E364EFAC023 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:48:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <002401c64e78$1f3ef6e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c64e75$41a72110$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:48:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:48:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44229931.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Saragrace, Yes pleated peplum and gathered sleaves, that is how i would like it. Do you think i should tea dye the bobbin lace? Or is it just the old garment wich has yellowed in time? The taffeta of the jacket is very nice isabella colloured. Greyish cream. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden > Pleats or gathers where? Sleeves or peplum? Gathers for the sleeves, > pleats for the peplum is my vote! > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Sg > > > Who wishes she had a boyfriend like Bjarne! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 07:59:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCwul5014927 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:58:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NCx57I002272; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:59:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCwnlK087975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:58:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NCwmFd086354; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:58:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2NCwhXT086212 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:58:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 49564 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2006 12:58:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.248 with login) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2006 12:58:35 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060323125347.01dfcf98@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:58:44 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden In-Reply-To: <002401c64e78$1f3ef6e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000d01c64e75$41a72110$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002401c64e78$1f3ef6e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:59:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 44229B99.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 12:48 23/03/2006, you wrote: >Hi Saragrace, >Yes pleated peplum and gathered sleaves, that is how i would like it. >Do you think i should tea dye the bobbin lace? Or is it just the old >garment wich has yellowed in time? >The taffeta of the jacket is very nice isabella colloured. >Greyish cream. > >Bjarne A lace collecting friend of mine, (who coincidentally lives in Copenhagen,) explained to me that old lace is not usually dyed with anything, but is made with either bleached or unbleached linen thread. The Victorians began the habit of tea dyeing in order a) to make it look "old" and b) to make it resemble old master paintings, which of course had become dirty and yellowed with age. If you look at well cleaned paintings, before and after, you can see why they made the assumption. Also, she has shown me original lace, and I have a few pieces of my own, and they are very pale, off white in colour. You can tea dye if that is the effect you want, but it would not enhance your embroidery in my opinion. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 08:31:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NDVpak015949 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:31:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NDW0ec017009; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:32:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NDVSxX090973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:31:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NDVNNX008074; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:31:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51315.mail.yahoo.com (web51315.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.125]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2NDV7ma007873 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:31:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 11489 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2006 13:31:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=qSGA+LA7dFheF9LLvC27Qni/HuPGxynPwFXZb9iQMAH1d0c4n66UJAA8y+dtwS9gEypsFD597w1537eifkzPdKqhXDtcqBVD0o+VsRu6gJzowP8/enug8Pm3NtCd2PKXDvIfdS9yrejQ/yM4AUbdophAzPACdGRURIUrYChUIm8= ; Message-ID: <20060323133102.11487.qmail@web51315.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.135.74] by web51315.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:31:02 PST Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:31:02 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:32:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4422A350.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO --- WickedFrau wrote: > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Pleats or gathers where? Sleeves or peplum? > Gathers for the sleeves, pleats for the peplum is > my vote! > > > Sg I'll go with this, too, or pleats on both. Ann in CT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 08:59:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NDxgC2016819 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:59:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NDxqn3030605; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NDxUc4093647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:59:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NDxTug027999; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:59:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NDxPwb027881 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A9B6014C; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:59:18 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 23 Mar 2006 08:59:05 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c64e82$4a4e5380$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060323133102.11487.qmail@web51315.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:01:30 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:59:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 4422A9D8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In making a jacket of this mode,I have found that the kind of fabric sort of dictates whether or not to gather or pleat. I think that pleating has a more formal look. Given the planned embroidery, the formalness of the garment is already indicated. I have made several of this style and have found that if the fabric is thick or heavy, trying to pleat is ends up with a very stiff flare in the areas that most need drape. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Catelli" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden > > --- WickedFrau wrote: > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > Pleats or gathers where? Sleeves or peplum? > > > Gathers for the sleeves, pleats for the peplum is > > my vote! > > > > > Sg > > I'll go with this, too, or pleats on both. > > Ann in CT > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 10:11:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NFBklr018986 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:11:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NFBt00020192; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:11:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NFAdWd000615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:10:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NFALen084048; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:10:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NFAC4S083869 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:10:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.367.42ba89 (4468) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:10:00 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <367.42ba89.31541448@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:10:00 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:11:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422BABB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/23/2006 7:28:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: What do you think i should, gather or pleat? How about lots of tiny pleats....a compromise. Or cut the jacket skirts directly into the bodice pieces....but then you have a different jacket. On "Last of the Mohicans" one of the boned jacket-bodices I made for the towns women had a gathered skirt like this. I found it in a drawing from "Costume in Detail" I think....anyway I had to show the drawing to the designer before I did it. It was a garment for an adult. I was just looking for some variety in the 16 jackets I had to make off the same basic pattern. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 10:45:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NFjUEF021079 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:45:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NFjdof021272; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:45:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NFixgZ004820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:44:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NFisE3014203; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:44:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NFim54014014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:44:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FMRzO-0000qe-9o; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:44:42 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:44:42 -0500 Message-ID: <20060323104442.mdp4nx6q920ws8kc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:44:42 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] smell of spiral steel boning References: <1143116690.4422939264f6c@webmail.netspace.net.au> In-Reply-To: <1143116690.4422939264f6c@webmail.netspace.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:45:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422C2A3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting stilskin@netspace.net.au: > Belive it or not, metal has a smell. > Providing your supplier has not done something you are not aware of, this is > normal. I think that they treat it with an acid wash -- that's what it would smell like. > >> I have a reel of uncut spiral steel boning that I've had for a while, still >> in the bag the shop put it in. , but it seems to have a >> really strong, acrid smell to it. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 11:38:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NGcIUK023195 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:38:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NGcRq7014950; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:38:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGbqCw012221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:37:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGbWEp062259; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:37:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGbQg7062100 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:37:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.245.9206a00 (15863) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:30:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-d22 (mblk-d22.mblk.aol.com [205.188.149.14]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID62-3df74422cd42284; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:30:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:30:50 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81CAE47E05CDA-BC-2E43@mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603230343.k2N3hf4A039450@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.14) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:30:49 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603230343.k2N3hf4A039450@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.149.14 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tudor costumes for dummies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:38:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422CF04.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Nicole, Check out this web site for a very nice lady's Tudor made with commercial patterns: http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/gowns/velvetgown/gettingstarted.htm Here's a page for reenactors, though it looks like mostly peasant stuff: http://freespace.virgin.net/f.lea/index.htm Listmember Dawn has some simple and easy patterns which may be useful to you: http://www.reddawn.net/costume/patterns.htm And she also has a list of commercial costume patterns with reviews of each. One or two of these are pretty good for men's Tudor, if made in the right fabrics: http://www.reddawn.net/costume/costpat.htm Check out eBay for out-of-print patterns. Hope this helps. Tea Rose P.S. I LOVE your Madam Scarlet pictures! ============================================ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:05:26 +0000 From: "Nicole Kipar" Subject: [h-cost] Tudor costumes for "dummies"? Help for a theatrical group Can anyone, please pleae please point me into the right direction of where to start getting a really good feel for Tudor period costumes and, most importantly, which patterns could be adapted (I have Margo Anderson's Lady's wardrobe and Man's wardrobe) and if I can even use some commercial big companies patterns, because those are usually quite easy. Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 11:48:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NGmUkH023569 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:48:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NGmdli026629; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:48:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGm6aO013541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:48:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGlpGY070613; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:47:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGlfqq070458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:47:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FMSyI-0004yJ-7H; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:47:38 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:47:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20060323114738.racdpthctvsww840@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:47:38 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Dawn (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Tudor costumes for dummies References: <200603230343.k2N3hf4A039450@net.indra.com> <8C81CAE47E05CDA-BC-2E43@mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C81CAE47E05CDA-BC-2E43@mblk-d22.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:48:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422D167.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting tearoses@aol.com: *snippage* > > Listmember Dawn has some simple and easy patterns which may be useful to you: *snippage* I just got an email from Dawn, and she's having ISP problems with the list. She's still around! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 11:57:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NGv2lF023971 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:57:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NGvBMQ003694; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:57:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGpxET014070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:51:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGpwSV074155; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:51:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NGpsM7073967 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:51:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2NGpkT09718.; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:51:46 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:51:46 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:51:31 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2NGpsM7073967 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:57:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422D367.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I love the Dutch lady's jacket, Nicole. One of these days when I have a bit of spare time I mean to make one of those for myself... Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> marquesate@hotmail.com 20/03/2006 23:32 >>> Thank you ever so much for your kind words, Bjarne, Saragrace and Jean. :-) I do have a little bit to show, even though I didn't have much time for website updates. That was an understatement, I had no time. Here are some of my latest costumes & evening outfits: http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 12:00:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NH0cPX024105 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:00:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NH0lab007968; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:00:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NH0QtB015197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NH0Pem081144; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f11.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.21]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NH0JEW081014 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:00:19 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:00:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [137.195.176.12] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20060323114738.racdpthctvsww840@www.goldsword.com> From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: Dawn (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Tudor costumes for dummies Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:00:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 17:00:19.0295 (UTC) FILETIME=[43EA16F0:01C64E9B] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:00:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422D43F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Gosh, I never got the original message *eyes mailing list* Does this mean I missed out on other replies to my theatrical Tudor question, too? Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >From: "Susan B. Farmer" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Dawn (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Tudor costumes for dummies >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:47:38 -0500 > >Quoting tearoses@aol.com: > >*snippage* > >> >>Listmember Dawn has some simple and easy patterns which may be useful to >>you: > >*snippage* > >I just got an email from Dawn, and she's having ISP problems with the >list. She's still around! > >Susan >----- >Susan Farmer >sfarmer@goldsword.com >University of Tennessee >Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 12:00:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NH0m1U024115 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:00:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NH0vb4018237; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:00:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NH0Sm5015203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NH0RYG081181; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from msgbas9x.lvld.agilent.com (msgbas9x.lvld.agilent.com [192.25.144.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NH0N6t081104 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sunshine_buchler@agilent.com) Received: from relcos1.cos.agilent.com (relcos1.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.239]) by msgbas9x.lvld.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B081AF for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com (wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com [130.29.152.188]) by relcos1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6DE61C2783 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from wcosbh01.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.125]) by wcosvs02.cos.agilent.com with InterScan Messaging Security Suite; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:04 -0700 Received: from wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com ([130.29.152.72]) by wcosbh01.cos.agilent.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:04 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: [h-cost] houpelande fabric? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:00:03 -0700 Message-ID: <63D1F08E0E9EAF4185B5AE02D5C0D964307531@wcosmb05.cos.agilent.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] houpelande fabric? thread-index: AcZOLF3BgSY11+rzTnyTuvuZfyDA3QAbHsvQ From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 17:00:04.0099 (UTC) FILETIME=[3ADB5D30:01C64E9B] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2NH0N6t081104 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:00:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422D449.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > What would be a good fabric to use to make a houpelande? > Is taffeta too stiff to use? This would be for a man's, > thigh length and perhaps bag or wing type sleeves. > Thanks for your input, in advance. I've had really good results with wool flannel (_not_ coat weight), which drapes very like the pictures. But I'm a sucker for pretty fabrics and have made them out of brocades with reasonably good results. All but one of the upholstery brocades I've used have the problem of being slightly too stiff so that the sleeves and hem aren't flowing quite the way you see in the illuminations and in the portraits. The too stiff ones were similar to the fancy brocade tablecloths you see in Macys, if that helps at all. My guess is that taffeta will be both too light (flopping around in the breeze) and too stiff to do bag sleeves well. One can get away with a lot with wing sleeves if you make them on the pattern that Cynthia proposes (http://www.virtue.to/articles/laurel/laurel_constr.html shown in green about 2/3s of the way down), and especially if you line it with something heavier. By the way, I had amazing results using Cynthia's bag sleeve schematic (unfortunately, I don't have any pictures... But it was great!) her article on it is http://www.virtue.to/articles/bag_sleeve.html. -sunny _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 12:17:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHHW5g024724 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:17:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHHg6B026844; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:17:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHHUqb017460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:17:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHHRhE096350; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:17:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHHJrL096103 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:17:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED033C841 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:17:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4422D81F.9040206@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:17:19 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Georgian Fair day X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:17:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422D836.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO This sounds like fun, too bad I'm on the wrong continent. "On Georgian fair day, Cockermouth will be taking a step back in time. Market Place will be transformed into a traditional Georgian town, complete with the hustle and bustle of market day and people dressed fully in period costume." http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=344765 Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 12:44:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHiiB2025614 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:44:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHir2H024366; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:44:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHiGrf021365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHiAP7020122; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:44:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHhvvf019925 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:44:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.36a.321638 (15702) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID53-3d564422de528f; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:44 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:44:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422DE95.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The one with the fur? YES!!!! Susan "Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness" Carol H. On Mar 23, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > I love the Dutch lady's jacket, Nicole. One of these days when I have > a bit of spare time I mean to make one of those for myself... > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> marquesate@hotmail.com 20/03/2006 23:32 >>> > Thank you ever so much for your kind words, Bjarne, Saragrace and > Jean. :-) > I do have a little bit to show, even though I didn't have much time for > website updates. That was an understatement, I had no time. Here are > some of > my latest costumes & evening outfits: > > http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html > > Nicole > > -------------------- > "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 12:54:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHsDKd025954 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHsMpO032228; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHrw3g022600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:53:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHrtqg028683; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:53:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ND34Zc089030 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:03:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55db.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.219]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id AE23CA50021 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:03:02 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000a01c64e7a$27f06380$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c64e75$41a72110$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><002401c64e78$1f3ef6e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060323125347.01dfcf98@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:03:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=39% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422E0CF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Suzi, Yes i also think it would be best to leave it as it is, this lace must be half silk and half linnen, because the rings in the pattern is a gimp made of chenille. And i think chenille was only made in silk. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden > At 12:48 23/03/2006, you wrote: >>Hi Saragrace, >>Yes pleated peplum and gathered sleaves, that is how i would like it. >>Do you think i should tea dye the bobbin lace? Or is it just the old >>garment wich has yellowed in time? >>The taffeta of the jacket is very nice isabella colloured. >>Greyish cream. >> >>Bjarne > > > A lace collecting friend of mine, (who coincidentally lives in > Copenhagen,) explained to me that old lace is not usually dyed with > anything, but is made with either bleached or unbleached linen thread. The > Victorians began the habit of tea dyeing in order a) to make it look "old" > and b) to make it resemble old master paintings, which of course had > become dirty and yellowed with age. If you look at well cleaned paintings, > before and after, you can see why they made the assumption. > > Also, she has shown me original lace, and I have a few pieces of my own, > and they are very pale, off white in colour. You can tea dye if that is > the effect you want, but it would not enhance your embroidery in my > opinion. > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 12:54:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHsPxi025961 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHsY00002892; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHsH15022669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:54:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHsHMb029077; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:54:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NDBZUR094563 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:11:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sjpaterson@tru.eastlink.ca) Received: from ip04.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.20]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IWL009EL0N4MMB1@mta01.eastlink.ca> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:11:28 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-137-68-3.eastlink.ca (HELO FIRSTFLOOR) ([24.137.68.3]) by ip04.eastlink.ca with SMTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:10:52 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:10:43 -0400 From: SPaterson Subject: Re: [h-cost] ladys 18th century tangled garden To: Historical Costume Message-id: <001901c64e7b$3141af10$6401a8c0@FIRSTFLOOR> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= References: <000d01c64e75$41a72110$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422E0DA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I like the pleated look, it is a cleaner and more flattering line - it gets my vote Sarah Paterson ----- Original Message ----- > Hi, > I have uploaded some pictures of the jacket i am working on for my girl > friend in Sweden. > This bodice i have drafted after a girls jacket in a danish museum. The > peplum skirt is gathered to the bodice on the girls jacket, but i am not > sure if i should do this on a grown up ladys jacket? > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/jacket.html > I have drawn on the muslin, how i want the embroidery to look like. I need > to add the sleave frills, 2 but it will come later. > The bodice is laced over the stomacher for closing. > What do you think i should, gather or pleat? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 12:54:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHsjXC025975 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHssa7024580; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHs6md022620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHs42B028856; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:54:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f14.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHs04n028648 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:54:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:53:54 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:53:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [137.195.176.12] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dutch 1660s fur jacket, was Costumers in Edinburgh? Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:53:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 17:53:54.0339 (UTC) FILETIME=[C03ADF30:01C64EA2] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:54:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422E0EE.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I even wear my lovely jacket to work. ;-) It's velvet, lined in linen and trimmed with rabbit fur, with silk ties. Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >From: Susan Data-Samtak >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:44 -0500 > >The one with the fur? YES!!!! > >Susan > >"Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness" Carol H. > > >On Mar 23, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > >>I love the Dutch lady's jacket, Nicole. One of these days when I have a >>bit of spare time I mean to make one of those for myself... >> >>Kate Bunting >>Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> >>>>>marquesate@hotmail.com 20/03/2006 23:32 >>> >>Thank you ever so much for your kind words, Bjarne, Saragrace and Jean. >>:-) >>I do have a little bit to show, even though I didn't have much time for >>website updates. That was an understatement, I had no time. Here are some >>of >>my latest costumes & evening outfits: >> >>http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html >> >>Nicole >> >>-------------------- >>"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 12:55:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHtpfc026011 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:55:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NHu1Y5018896; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:56:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHtgbO022992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:55:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NHtd7o030404; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:55:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NFInst091215 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:18:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2f5.14fd390 (4468) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:18:36 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2f5.14fd390.3154164c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:18:36 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] smell of spiral steel boning To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:56:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422E131.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I love the smell of spiral boning in the morning....smells like...victory! [Victoria?] Anyway...I think the prob is just you have a huge amount of it that has been shut up for a while. There might be some kind of lubrication on it to keep it supple and that's the smell. Airing it out, and the fact you'll be using a relatively small amount of that huge wad in the garment, will do the trick I bet. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 13:06:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NI6vGw026398 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:06:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NI76lf010668; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:07:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NI4Idw024160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:04:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NI4G3x038690; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:04:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NI4Ds4038572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:04:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FMUAM-0007zy-Nz; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:04:10 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:04:10 -0500 Message-ID: <20060323130410.25hezmxqtehws0sk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:04:10 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: Dawn (was Re: [h-cost] Re: Tudor costumes for dummies References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:07:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422E3CA.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Nicole Kipar : > Gosh, I never got the original message *eyes mailing list* > > Does this mean I missed out on other replies to my theatrical Tudor > question, too? The server does wierd things sometimes. There have been a couple of answers to your question. Have you seen any of the replies? Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 13:22:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NIMIqO026886 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:22:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NIMSon023460; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:22:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NIM8jH026554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NIM33l056214; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:22:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NILxKj056065 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:22:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.18]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20060323182152.EYJH18974.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:21:52 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060323121221.028c1870@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:21:49 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200603231545.k2NFj5um014383@net.indra.com> References: <200603231545.k2NFj5um014383@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: smell of spiral steel boning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:22:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422E764.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO An effective way to eliminate odors in books (tobacco smoke or musty) is to place the book in a sealed plastic bag with (unused) cat litter. Check it periodically and when you no longer detect the offensive odor, remove and let air. The cat litter will absorb the odors and any moisture. Beth At 09:45 AM 3/23/2006, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:14:41 +0000 >From: "Kate Cole" >I have a reel of uncut spiral steel boning that I've had for a while, still >in the bag the shop put it in. I took it out last night because I want to >use it for a wedding dress I'm making for a friend, but it seems to have a >really strong, acrid smell to it. I know it will be in a casing and below a >couple of layers of fabric, but as it's a wedding dress I don't really want >the bride to be able to smell it! Has anyone else had this problem and is >there a solution? I don't want to clean it with WD40 or anything, as >obviously that could leave marks on the fabric. Would it help if I just >"aired" it? > >Any ideas gratefully received. > >Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 13:41:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NIfPKh027533 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:41:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NIfYI0007928; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:41:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NIfFdk029085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:41:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NIfCB6075449; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:41:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.191]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2NIf5Dj075231 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:41:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rosenau5@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 1025 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2006 18:41:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=TPwvO9dFwEu+8yzL5tp9Fdy35VQThRpkpIm/mY2vifFZ7C2w5lFsfoo2/vT7ECUc5s3xzLlpHZzvJcdgorX+Q+XVmdk+pF5RTqzEMPKhAyPuSO+lHXeMf5FXYZS7B6JQ4TrN8LrvNxkLjg/smVFDmI5fLLf5FNJNyKWJ2jRIZWA= ; Message-ID: <20060323184059.1023.qmail@web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.250.65.45] by web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:40:59 PST Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:40:59 -0800 (PST) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] questions on kimono X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:41:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422EBDF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I've decided to revamp my casual wardrobe and am leaning towards a Japanese theme. So now I have several questions. I've started by doing web research and pulling out all my appropriate patterns, Folkwear, etc and my copy of Make Your Own Japanese Clothing. Would the first layer be linen? One of the on-line tutorials shows what looks like a white tank-top and a wrap skirt, then an underkimono and then the outer robe. What do you stiffen the collar with so it doesn't flop over or crease when worn next to the neck? I'm hoping for something different than hair canvas. Perhaps multiple layers of muslin? I want to be able to wash the underkimono frequently like I would my linen shifts. The current incarnation of kimono seems to have become formalized about 300 years ago. What would have been worn before then? I want all the lower or under layers to stand up to frequent washing so please keep that in mind when throwing out suggestions. Any and all history, suggestions, and construction hints welcome. Thanks. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 14:02:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NJ2TlL028568 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:02:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NJ2cLr027169; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:02:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NJ24Y3032070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:02:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NJ1qpK096322; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:01:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nasc-out-2.nasc.inter.net (nasc-out-2.nasc.inter.net [203.176.60.254]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NJ1gJ0096130 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:01:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gwen@moonsandstars.com) Received: from [146.82.32.242] (helo=Wndyc) by app2.nasc.inter.net with asmtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1FMV3w-0004Gt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:01:36 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c64eac$325fd300$1b04000a@Wndyc> From: "Gwen" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060323184059.1023.qmail@web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] questions on kimono Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:01:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:02:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422F0CE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2NJ2TlL028568 Status: RO What is the time frame you're looking at? Gwenhwyfar ----- Original Message ----- From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 13:40 Subject: [h-cost] questions on kimono I've decided to revamp my casual wardrobe and am leaning towards a Japanese theme. So now I have several questions. I've started by doing web research and pulling out all my appropriate patterns, Folkwear, etc and my copy of Make Your Own Japanese Clothing. Would the first layer be linen? One of the on-line tutorials shows what looks like a white tank-top and a wrap skirt, then an underkimono and then the outer robe. What do you stiffen the collar with so it doesn't flop over or crease when worn next to the neck? I'm hoping for something different than hair canvas. Perhaps multiple layers of muslin? I want to be able to wash the underkimono frequently like I would my linen shifts. The current incarnation of kimono seems to have become formalized about 300 years ago. What would have been worn before then? I want all the lower or under layers to stand up to frequent washing so please keep that in mind when throwing out suggestions. Any and all history, suggestions, and construction hints welcome. Thanks. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 14:32:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NJWg6k029743 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:32:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NJWplW022805; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:32:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NJWTIf036021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:32:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NJWNmR025414; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NJWJjk025228 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:32:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2ef.3b4e8b3 (16100) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-r28 (mblk-r28.mblk.aol.com [152.163.179.18]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID114-3ee44422f7b5376; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:32:06 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:32:05 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81CC79A067A45-1B1C-16C9@mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603231900.k2NJ0Ck7094554@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com (152.163.179.18) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:32:05 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603231900.k2NJ0Ck7094554@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.179.18 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:32:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422F7E3.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi all, I have a question for those who use cable ties in their corsets. I'm making my first 18th-century corset, and it turns out that because some of the channels run diagonally and the bank is so high, my cable ties aren't long enough. So, I'm wondering, will it really be that bad if the bones aren't continuous? I tried tying two bones together, but they made a lump that looked like it might be uncomfortable. Should I go and buy enough ridgeline to fill in the long channels? Thanks! Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 14:37:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NJbTTK029922 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:37:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NJbdDw027805; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:37:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NJaBbb036506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:36:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NJaAN0028979; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.234]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2NJa7ew028873 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:36:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from primevalooze@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 75319 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2006 18:55:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PTP5MCxRK+gMccncJY+omdxV+4Oe4KM7LH7w71tCMhhp1yYdxQQtSRk8bg0UYfVZ/F/+4mies9IJ3nObpM9xrJWqQGrotIv0dvoN0Q5AdNkiJS6FmH7nSvBd/nkeniXr0rsSTfCvJPeBp1KIHwUeaGsKhZANyISmxvMoofV0VwM= ; Message-ID: <20060323185530.75317.qmail@web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.65.105.240] by web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:55:30 PST Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: Lynda Boots Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dutch 1660s fur jacket, was Costumers in Edinburgh? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:37:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4422F903.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Is there a picture of this online? I'd love to see what it looks like. Lynda --- Nicole Kipar wrote: > I even wear my lovely jacket to work. ;-) It's > velvet, lined in linen and > trimmed with rabbit fur, with silk ties. > > Nicole > > > -------------------- > "If you think education is expensive, try > ignorance." > > > > > > >From: Susan Data-Samtak > >Reply-To: Historical Costume > >To: Historical Costume > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? > >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:44 -0500 > > > >The one with the fur? YES!!!! > > > >Susan > > > >"Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness" > Carol H. > > > > > >On Mar 23, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > >>I love the Dutch lady's jacket, Nicole. One of > these days when I have a > >>bit of spare time I mean to make one of those for > myself... > >> > >>Kate Bunting > >>Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >> > >>>>>marquesate@hotmail.com 20/03/2006 23:32 >>> > >>Thank you ever so much for your kind words, > Bjarne, Saragrace and Jean. > >>:-) > >>I do have a little bit to show, even though I > didn't have much time for > >>website updates. That was an understatement, I had > no time. Here are some > >>of > >>my latest costumes & evening outfits: > >> > >>http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html > >> > >>Nicole > >> > >>-------------------- > >>"If you think education is expensive, try > ignorance." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _________________________________________________________________ > Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? > Download MSN Messenger > 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 15:39:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NKdias032589 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:39:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NKdrQK023627; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:39:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NKdUVm048628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NKdKZB087326; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta14.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NKd6LL087123 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:39:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@NETSCAPE.COM) Received: from dm26.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta14.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07ED7402EC for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:39:01 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060323123901.1E173D93@resin01.mta.everyone.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:39:01 -0800 (PST) From: " Lalah" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nREIwdld+rktwEAAAAB,498c30023968e61624e0ef93a4dba38a X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.70] X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:39:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44230799.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO If the boning isn't continuous you will find that the garment is going to want to bend where the split is. I am not really explaining this well, but if you bend a long piece of whatever you use for boning it will curve. If you bend a section where there are two pieces butted together it will be a sharp bend. That may be ok in some places, but you will probably be happier getting something that is long enough. I have gotten cable ties a couple of feet long. If that is what you really want to use, check around Lowe's, Home Depot and the like. Oh yes, you are right about joining them. It would be uncomfortable and would probably show as a bump on your garment. Good luck. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- tearoses@aol.com wrote: From: tearoses@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:32:05 -0500 Hi all, I have a question for those who use cable ties in their corsets. I'm making my first 18th-century corset, and it turns out that because some of the channels run diagonally and the bank is so high, my cable ties aren't long enough. So, I'm wondering, will it really be that bad if the bones aren't continuous? I tried tying two bones together, but they made a lump that looked like it might be uncomfortable. Should I go and buy enough ridgeline to fill in the long channels? Thanks! Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 16:18:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLIicF001710 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:18:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLIrxj028332; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:18:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLIUwH053893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:18:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLIQn3022104; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:18:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLHp7p021624 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:18:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2366167B1 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:51:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060323124743.03a205e0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:50:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: smell of spiral steel boning In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20060323121221.028c1870@mail.alltel.net> References: <200603231545.k2NFj5um014383@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20060323121221.028c1870@mail.alltel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:18:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442310BD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 10:21 AM 3/23/2006, you wrote: >An effective way to eliminate odors in books (tobacco smoke or musty) is >to place the book in a sealed plastic bag with (unused) cat litter. Check >it periodically and when you no longer detect the offensive odor, remove >and let air. The cat litter will absorb the odors and any moisture. > >Beth Another may be to place the offensive item in a bag or other container with activated charcoal (like the kind you BBQ with) and leave for a day or two. It works great for really foul odors, like that of a refrigerator left unplugged with food inside for weeks before it was found. Yeah, that's the only thing that worked when I was an apartment manager. I haven't checked my kitty litter to see if it contains charcoal, but it probably has something similar working for it. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 16:19:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLJ2xC001735 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:19:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLJBkm002556; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:19:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLDSts053275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:13:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLDQoR017848; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:13:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav13.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLDMS9017733 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:13:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:13:17 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:13:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060323184059.1023.qmail@web31711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] questions on kimono Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:13:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 21:13:17.0705 (UTC) FILETIME=[9AF3A790:01C64EBE] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:19:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442310CF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Japanese used mostly silk. Any thing that had to be rigid had to be layered with the horse hair fabrics. They stiffened it with horse hair cloth. Have you ever seen those tabs that stick up on the administrator's head. Looks like a black loop? That is horse hair cloth. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cascio Michael" To: Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: [h-cost] questions on kimono > I've decided to revamp my casual wardrobe and am > leaning towards a Japanese theme. > So now I have several questions. > I've started by doing web research and pulling out all > my appropriate patterns, Folkwear, etc and my copy of > Make Your Own Japanese Clothing. > Would the first layer be linen? One of the on-line > tutorials shows what looks like a white tank-top and a > wrap skirt, then an underkimono and then the outer > robe. > What do you stiffen the collar with so it doesn't flop > over or crease when worn next to the neck? I'm hoping > for something different than hair canvas. Perhaps > multiple layers of muslin? I want to be able to wash > the underkimono frequently like I would my linen > shifts. > The current incarnation of kimono seems to have become > formalized about 300 years ago. What would have been > worn before then? > I want all the lower or under layers to stand up to > frequent washing so please keep that in mind when > throwing out suggestions. > Any and all history, suggestions, and construction > hints welcome. > Thanks. > Cassandra > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 16:35:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLZ4JG002343 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:35:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLZD21012277; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:35:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLYbvv055984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:34:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLBxO3016615; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.218]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLBk3H016304 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip22a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip22a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.152]) by mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k2NLBccd012233 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:11:38 -0500 Received: from 209-225-8-108.charter.net (HELO fepweb08) ([209.225.8.108]) by mxip22a.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 23 Mar 2006 16:11:38 -0500 Message-ID: <9910850.1143148298187.JavaMail.root@fepweb08> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:11:38 -0800 From: To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cleaning fur X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:35:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44231492.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I'm one of those people who love to read this list but rarely post. Thank you all for all the interesting ideas and knowlege. So to my question... How do you clean white fur? I have purchased and old white mink fur coat and I'd like to clean it before I cut it up :) I'd really rather not spend much more money on this project. Any ideas? Also how do I cut it? I am going to use it to trim a 15th century V necked gown. Thanks! Annette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 16:46:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLkOle002747 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:46:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLkXdX023265; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:46:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLjivs057386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:45:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLjTB2045877; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:45:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail4.tpgi.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLjI0R045712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:45:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-220-181-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.220.181]) by mail4.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2NLjEfB018646 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:45:17 +1100 Message-ID: <003e01c64ec3$11d04950$b5dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200603231900.k2NJ0Ck7094554@net.indra.com> <8C81CC79A067A45-1B1C-16C9@mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:45:12 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:46:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4423173A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets > Hi all, > > I have a question for those who use cable ties in their corsets. I'm > making my first 18th-century corset, and it turns out that because some of > the channels run diagonally and the bank is so high, my cable ties aren't > long enough. So, I'm wondering, will it really be that bad if the bones > aren't continuous? I tried tying two bones together, but they made a lump > that looked like it might be uncomfortable. Should I go and buy enough > ridgeline to fill in the long channels? > > Thanks! > > Tea Rose I've had some luck with taping cable ties together for extra length but I can only get my hands on the skinny ones (I've found two skinny cable ties per channel is sufficient in a fully boned corset [i.e. no gaps between the bones] and I'm about a size 18-20 and a DD cup so it's not like there's nothing to hold in) so I had 3 layers with the joins at different places like bricks in a wall. Of course if you use tape that would probably mean you couldn't wash it, but you really shouldn't need to wash a corset anyway. This diagram is intended to show what the bones look like from the side _ ___ __ __ ___ _ HTH Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 16:46:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLkOpc002746 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:46:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NLkXNU012787; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:46:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLjhbt057385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:45:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLjbwn046026; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:45:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLjWlq045843 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:45:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05284 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:17:31 -0600 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:17:29 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cleaning fur In-Reply-To: <9910850.1143148298187.JavaMail.root@fepweb08> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:46:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4423173A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 fox3785@charter.net wrote: > I'm one of those people who love to read this list but rarely post. > Thank you all for all the interesting ideas and knowlege. > > So to my question... How do you clean white fur? I have purchased and > old white mink fur coat and I'd like to clean it before I cut it up :) > I'd really rather not spend much more money on this project. Any > ideas? > > Also how do I cut it? I am going to use it to trim a 15th century V > necked gown. Oh, then you want a *dark* fur. Dark fur was all the rage by the time the V necked gowns came in. Send the white stuff to me. Then you don't have to worry about cleaning it ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 17:01:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NM1O28003380 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:01:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NM1WUF005141; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:01:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NM176m059664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:01:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NM14P0059607; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:01:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail9.tpgi.com.au (mail9.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NM0v0d059480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:01:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-220-181-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.220.181]) by mail9.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2NM0tfK027831 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:00:56 +1100 Message-ID: <004601c64ec5$41b71840$b5dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:00:53 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:01:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44231ABC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I found another diagram of an undersleeve pattern (I knew I'd seen it somewhere) http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/tudorcostumes/Bess_page3weddingGowndiary.html this is essentially the same as Jean Hunnisett's pattern, although if you're going to imitate Princess Elizabeth's sleeves you might want to make it larger and add some slashes. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 17:06:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NM6TYd003590 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:06:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NM6dFm009598; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:06:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NM4bIV060188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:06:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLl5UR047280; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:47:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f18.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NLjZ3p045906 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:45:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:45:30 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:45:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [83.105.84.119] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <9910850.1143148298187.JavaMail.root@fepweb08> From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:45:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 21:45:30.0193 (UTC) FILETIME=[1ACDEC10:01C64EC3] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:06:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44231BEF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I don't know how to clean it, but when it comes to the second part of your question I might be able to help. You cut the fur from the skin side witha very sharp scalpel. Make sure only to cut the skin, not the fur. Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >From: >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: [h-cost] Cleaning fur >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:11:38 -0800 > >Hi, > >I'm one of those people who love to read this list but rarely post. Thank >you all for all the interesting ideas and knowlege. > >So to my question... How do you clean white fur? I have purchased and old >white mink fur coat and I'd like to clean it before I cut it up :) I'd >really rather not spend much more money on this project. Any ideas? > >Also how do I cut it? I am going to use it to trim a 15th century V necked >gown. > >Thanks! > >Annette >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 17:31:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NMV8q2004517 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:31:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NMVHIB031499; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:31:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NMUlpM064308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:30:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NMUScV087268; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:30:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f8.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NMUMLM087170 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:30:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:30:21 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:30:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [83.105.84.119] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20060323185530.75317.qmail@web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] picture of Dutch 1660s fur jacket Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:30:19 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 22:30:21.0847 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F27BA70:01C64EC9] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:31:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442321B5.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Here is one pic (excuse the way I look, it was 3 AM and back then I was 3 sizes bigger than I am now ;-) http://www.kipar.org/temp/dutch-fur-jacket.jpg The other is on my costume diaries page on http://www.kipar.org Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >From: Lynda Boots >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dutch 1660s fur jacket, was Costumers in Edinburgh? >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:55:30 -0800 (PST) > >Is there a picture of this online? I'd love to see >what it looks like. > >Lynda > >--- Nicole Kipar wrote: > > > I even wear my lovely jacket to work. ;-) It's > > velvet, lined in linen and > > trimmed with rabbit fur, with silk ties. > > > > Nicole > > > > > > -------------------- > > "If you think education is expensive, try > > ignorance." > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Susan Data-Samtak > > >Reply-To: Historical Costume > > >To: Historical Costume > > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? > > >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:44 -0500 > > > > > >The one with the fur? YES!!!! > > > > > >Susan > > > > > >"Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness" > > Carol H. > > > > > > > > >On Mar 23, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > > > >>I love the Dutch lady's jacket, Nicole. One of > > these days when I have a > > >>bit of spare time I mean to make one of those for > > myself... > > >> > > >>Kate Bunting > > >>Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >> > > >>>>>marquesate@hotmail.com 20/03/2006 23:32 >>> > > >>Thank you ever so much for your kind words, > > Bjarne, Saragrace and Jean. > > >>:-) > > >>I do have a little bit to show, even though I > > didn't have much time for > > >>website updates. That was an understatement, I had > > no time. Here are some > > >>of > > >>my latest costumes & evening outfits: > > >> > > > >>http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html > > >> > > >>Nicole > > >> > > >>-------------------- > > >>"If you think education is expensive, try > > ignorance." > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>h-costume mailing list > > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ > > >h-costume mailing list > > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? > > Download MSN Messenger > > 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 17:37:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NMbfuY004786 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:37:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NMbpQn004618; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:37:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NMb5sa065264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:37:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NMb1fo093525; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav5.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NManoK093378 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:36:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:36:49 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.119.236 by BAY101-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:36:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.119.236] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004601c64ec5$41b71840$b5dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:36:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Mar 2006 22:36:49.0033 (UTC) FILETIME=[45EF9F90:01C64ECA] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:37:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4423233F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Yes, I found that site a few days ago. Someone else mentioned it as well. Thanks for all the help from the list members. I'm sewing the body now and making the farthingale tomorrow. I'm cutting the gown tomorrow and can't wait to see on my daughter! I found a jewlery maker that will help me with the necklaces, neckline gems and the girdle. She said she'd love to help me. Never hurts to ask for help. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves >I found another diagram of an undersleeve pattern (I knew I'd seen it >somewhere) >http://www.livinghistory.co.uk/homepages/tudorcostumes/Bess_page3weddingGowndiary.html >this is essentially the same as Jean Hunnisett's pattern, although if >you're going to imitate Princess Elizabeth's sleeves you might want to make >it larger and add some slashes. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 18:12:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NNCogc006243 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:12:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NNCxPc032353; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:13:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNBNpS070574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:11:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNBEdX025432; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:11:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNBBUp025377 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:11:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9E96FE00DE; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:06:17 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:11:36 -0800 Message-ID: <003501c64ecf$22938d90$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <9910850.1143148298187.JavaMail.root@fepweb08> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:13:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44232B7B.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO My mom says you use cornmeal. Rub it into the fur, then brush out. Be sure to go with the grain and be gentle. It's tedious. She says that is how professional furriers do it. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of fox3785@charter.net Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:12 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Hi, I'm one of those people who love to read this list but rarely post. Thank you all for all the interesting ideas and knowlege. So to my question... How do you clean white fur? I have purchased and old white mink fur coat and I'd like to clean it before I cut it up :) I'd really rather not spend much more money on this project. Any ideas? Also how do I cut it? I am going to use it to trim a 15th century V necked gown. Thanks! Annette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 18:25:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NNPNre006736 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:25:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NNPXLv009290; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:25:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNOk9X072399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:24:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNOkZw038280; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:24:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.192.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNOeWg038093 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:24:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from roscelinlimoges@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter05.comcast.net ([204.127.197.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060323232435m1100c9saje>; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:24:35 +0000 Received: from [67.171.202.102] by rmailcenter05.comcast.net; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:24:33 +0000 From: roscelinlimoges@comcast.net To: h-costume@indra.com (Historic Costuming) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:24:33 +0000 Message-Id: <032320062324.10641.44232E310007D2180000299122007358349C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: cm9zY2VsaW5saW1vZ2VzQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT - Fougeres, Brittany X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:25:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44232E6D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Greetings, I know there are several people who live in or near France - I'm seeking some info and history about Fougeres, Brittany. If anyone would be interested in speaking to me off-list about this part of the country would you please e-mail me at roscelinlimoges@comcast.net My thanks! Roscelin Daydreaming while curled up in a blanket. P.S. To those who asked me off line about the instructions to do Byzantine chain-maile. I'm still looking for the book, we just resorted out books and still have a couple of piles that have not made it on to the shelves. Will get back to you as soon as I break this flu bug which is soon I hope. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 18:26:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NNQRXQ006790 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:26:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2NNQbJU007391; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:26:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNOh4i072387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:24:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNOcNb038156; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:24:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2NNOXqe038035 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:24:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-72-128-23-84.kc.res.rr.com [72.128.23.84]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id k2NNOQo9003456 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:24:27 -0600 (CST) From: "klh" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:25:45 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <003501c64ecf$22938d90$0300a8c0@bob3pc> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:26:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44232EAD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sort of...professional furriers will tumble the fur in a barrel filled with some sort of media such as walnut shells or sawdust, that has been charged with a cleaning solution. Then the media is vacuumed out of the fur, and the fur is steamed and pressed between rollers that line up and fluff the hairs. I don't know if simple cornmeal will do the trick. Worth a try I guess, depending on how valuable the fur is. Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sharon at Collierfam.com Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:12 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cleaning fur My mom says you use cornmeal. Rub it into the fur, then brush out. Be sure to go with the grain and be gentle. It's tedious. She says that is how professional furriers do it. Sharon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 19:01:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O01P3S008107 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:01:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O01YcQ003561; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:01:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O00tLq077448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O00r9P071240; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:00:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2O00neJ071096 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:00:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 84198 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2006 00:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.248 with login) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2006 00:00:43 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060323235809.01df42a8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:00:53 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cleaning fur In-Reply-To: References: <003501c64ecf$22938d90$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:01:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442336DE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 23:25 23/03/2006, you wrote: >Sort of...professional furriers will tumble the fur in a barrel filled with >some sort of media such as walnut shells or sawdust, that has been charged >with a cleaning solution. Then the media is vacuumed out of the fur, and the >fur is steamed and pressed between rollers that line up and fluff the hairs. > >I don't know if simple cornmeal will do the trick. Worth a try I guess, >depending on how valuable the fur is. I was always shown to clean fur with wheatmeal, or corn meal. For small items of white fur, my grandma used white breadcrumbs - yuck - they came out grey! Be sure to give the coat a thorough shaking, even a beating, outdoors after using a food product though, otherwise there are a lot of little beasties that would just love to have a nibble! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 21:02:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O222Y9012119 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:02:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O22BVu029250; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:02:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O21dnr090577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:01:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O21Wkg065102; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:01:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com ([71.197.44.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O21Smf065038 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:01:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.1.102]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:58:11 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT - Fougeres, Brittany Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:01:26 -0600 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <004e01c64ee6$dbe43ad0$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <032320062324.10641.44232E310007D2180000299122007358349C0A09010307040207040A0C9C019D@comcast.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1830 thread-index: AcZO0PD+bijjJzytRxWdIYz5d4nc3QAFIrhg X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Mar 2006 01:58:11.0584 (UTC) FILETIME=[67B29800:01C64EE6] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:02:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44235323.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Or try here http://www.dcwireworks.com/howto/weaves/byzantine/instruct.html -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of roscelinlimoges@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 5:25 PM To: Historic Costuming S P.S. To those who asked me off line about the instructions to do Byzantine chain-maile. I'm still looking for the book, we just resorted out books and still have a couple of piles that have not made it on to the shelves. Will get back to you as soon as I break this flu bug which is soon I hope. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 21:38:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O2cTBd013368 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:38:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O2ccq7022394; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:38:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O2c4ro096091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:38:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O2c2RW094505; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:38:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O2bvsb094435 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:37:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m78.in-tch.com [216.166.191.78]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2O2SwA08909 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:28:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <006701c64eec$fad8d300$4ebfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9910850.1143148298187.JavaMail.root@fepweb08> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:45:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:38:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44235BAE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sorry, but the only white fur at my house is on the cats (tummies, mostly), and they kind of take care of the cleaning bits on their own, and in fact, actually resent any "help" I might offer. ;o) Come to think of it, outside of a persian lamb coat I inherited from my grandmother, the only fur in the house at all is on the four-legged roommates. Obligatory Costume Content: They're always willing to critique what I'm making, but they are not the sort that would be at all tolerant of having new costumes made for them. ;o) --Sue in almost-springlike Montana ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: [h-cost] Cleaning fur > Hi, > > I'm one of those people who love to read this list but rarely post. Thank you all for all the interesting ideas and knowlege. > > So to my question... How do you clean white fur? I have purchased and old white mink fur coat and I'd like to clean it before I cut it up :) I'd really rather not spend much more money on this project. Any ideas? > > Also how do I cut it? I am going to use it to trim a 15th century V necked gown. > > Thanks! > > Annette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 22:20:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O3KCfA014844 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:20:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O3KLcN017280; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:20:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O3JvvX001022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:19:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O3JoOH023821; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:19:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O3Ji0K023739 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:19:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=sVeNhWxz4VOO+oDrrWc1fdlAUMU7uGSSL4FFCoDVzHgaw9rmq6j9oNpNNuqgxq0t; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.100.128.149] (helo=boris) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FMcpz-0003HT-Ci for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:19:43 -0500 Message-ID: <056901c64ef1$ec871b40$0300a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:20:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd487eebbef1b9a4ceaee9abce72bbf066c2daeb3e8d137e934c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.128.149 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:20:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44236575.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > Sort of...professional furriers will tumble the fur in a barrel filled > with > some sort of media such as walnut shells or sawdust, that has been charged > with a cleaning solution. Then the media is vacuumed out of the fur, and > the > fur is steamed and pressed between rollers that line up and fluff the > hairs. > > I don't know if simple cornmeal will do the trick. Worth a try I guess, > depending on how valuable the fur is. > > Talia Cornmeal works, the same way it works as a dry 'shampoo' for your hair. You just have to be sure to get it all brushed out. A very gentle vacuuming will help, too. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 22:53:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O3rgsL015956 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:53:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O3rqEl005854; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:53:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O3rQQF004910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:53:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O3rPNH047082; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:53:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O3r9XZ046886 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:53:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2O5cL0Z023838 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:38:21 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:58:36 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8 References: <9910850.1143148298187.JavaMail.root@fepweb08> <006701c64eec$fad8d300$4ebfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: <006701c64eec$fad8d300$4ebfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603232258.36477.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:53:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44236D50.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Thursday 23 March 2006 9:45 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: [snip] > Obligatory Costume Content: They're always willing to critique what I'm > making, but they are not the sort that would be at all tolerant of having > new costumes made for them. ;o) Ah, yes, but clearly cats are of different opinions about whether they will wear costume. My cat refuses (albeit very politely) to wear anything other than a collar, but Cynthia Virtue's cats cheerfully wear the medievaloid headdresses she has made for them. :-) http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cat_hat_s1.jpg http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cat_hat_s2.jpg http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cat_hat_a1.jpg -- Cathy Raymond "I'm starting to like the cut of this man's gibberish." --General Fillmore (from "The Tick," episode 2) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 23:43:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O4hDFS018187 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:43:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O4hMvA005311; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:43:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O4h02q010537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:43:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O4glWd080783; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:42:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O4gh6V080748 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:42:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20l3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.163] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FMe8I-00026l-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:42:42 -0500 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060323223002.02ed3278@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:42:25 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200603232237.k2NMb1Zg093526@net.indra.com> References: <200603232237.k2NMb1Zg093526@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: cleaning fur X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:43:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442378EA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO 1. cornmeal - sift it into the fur, let sit, shake it out (outdoors, as it makes a mess....) 2. try a dry pet shampoo - same idea - shake it on, let sit, shake or brush it out. What someone else said - cut with a scalpel or very sharp knife, from the back. Having just recently made things from an old fur coat, some suggestions: 1. Completely disassemble the coat - remove linings, interlinings, fastenings, etc, so you can get a good look at the backside of the fur. 2. Note that the furs are not whole skins - they are stripped and pieced - this is done to maximize the area one can get out of a single skin. 3. Construction seams and piecing seams are similar, but construction seams are a bit larger/thicker. Disassemble the construction until you have flat pieces. If you get the right end of the thread, the stitching just pulls out - they're usually sewn with a type of chain stitch. 4. Evaluate the skin (not the fur) condition carefully. Check for holes, weak spots, or brittleness - Due to the size of the pieces I needed, one of the items ended up with several holes that needed to be creatively patched. While patching, some of the skin I was trying to stitch to just crumbled. :( 5. Make sure you get the lay of the fur the way you want it when you cut out your trims. Good Luck! Sandy At 04:37 PM 3/23/2006, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 13:11:38 -0800 >From: >Subject: [h-cost] Cleaning fur > >So to my question... How do you clean white fur? I have purchased >and old white mink fur coat and I'd like to clean it before I cut it >up :) I'd really rather not spend much more money on this >project. Any ideas? > >Also how do I cut it? I am going to use it to trim a 15th century V >necked gown. > >Annette "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 23 23:54:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O4snBV018864 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:54:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O4swQU013050; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:55:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O4sZkS011915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:54:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O4sWLb089358; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:54:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O4sSIl089306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:54:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2O4sN6g007530 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:54:28 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: this list Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:59:19 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <62262.72.13.239.193.1143061154.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:55:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44237BA2.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm in such fear of driving fatigue that I'm driving all the way from North East Portland and staying the night at the McMennamen's Grand Lodge in Forest Grove. It used to be an Odd Fellows Home (seems appropriate) and is relatively inexpensive for the fun. Plus it's just down the street from the lecture. Have Red Sharpies Packed as well as red craft paper and pins. Regina Romsey/Wanda > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of aquazoo@patriot.net > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:59 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: this list > > > > Hey, anyone else willing to have a Red "H" or something so that we can > > identify ourselves at the lecture? > > We did this a couple years back at a Costume Society of America > meeting. I brought a red Sharpie marker with me and it was easy for > list members to write a red "H" on their name badges. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 00:30:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O5UMiH020756 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:30:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O5UWQt003440; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:30:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O5UCvm016104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:30:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O5U98L014894; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:30:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:OegIeaIIS7t12nRC8px2JeWp7Bu2DYHq@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O5U5w4014855 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:30:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.17] (206-124-5-17.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.17]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2O5RKD21456; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:27:20 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:30:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) Cc: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] Eyelet insertion trim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:30:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442383F8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Does anyone have any good online trim resources besides Jay Trims and Cheaptrims? I am looking for black eyelet insertion or dyeable white and can't seem to find it anywhere. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 01:05:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O656xH025033 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:05:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O65GdC022627; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:05:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O64ruT020105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:04:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O64pWi039740; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:04:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O64lHE039698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k2O64hne004186 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:04:46 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:09:38 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <003e01c64ec3$11d04950$b5dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:05:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44238C1C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have found some cable ties that are made for Ducts. They are over 45" long and nice and sturdy without being incredibly thick. I was looking at buying them for something like this because they come in bundles of 10 or more. Actually, they are long enough that I was thinking about buying several packages and simply cutting them to the length I needed. I figured I could get at least 3 bones out of each one. Regina 24, 2006 6:32 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Cable ties and corsets > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have a question for those who use cable ties in their corsets. I'm > > making my first 18th-century corset, and it turns out that > because some of > > the channels run diagonally and the bank is so high, my cable > ties aren't > > long enough. So, I'm wondering, will it really be that bad if the bones > > aren't continuous? I tried tying two bones together, but they > made a lump > > that looked like it might be uncomfortable. Should I go and buy enough > > ridgeline to fill in the long channels? > > > > Thanks! > > > > Tea Rose > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 04:03:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O93pDi027583 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:03:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2O9401T003383; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:04:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O93VOC035840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:03:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O93QX6071349; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:03:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2O93MZ4071260 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:03:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2O93C724836.; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:03:16 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:03:12 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:02:54 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dutch 1660s fur jacket, was Costumers in Edinburgh? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2O93MZ4071260 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:04:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4423B600.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The URL Nicole originally gave us is down below. See under "Dutch 1660s housewife" Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> primevalooze@yahoo.com 23/03/2006 18:55 >>> Is there a picture of this online? I'd love to see what it looks like. Lynda --- Nicole Kipar wrote: > I even wear my lovely jacket to work. ;-) It's > velvet, lined in linen and > trimmed with rabbit fur, with silk ties. > > Nicole > > > -------------------- > "If you think education is expensive, try > ignorance." > > > > > > >From: Susan Data-Samtak > >Reply-To: Historical Costume > >To: Historical Costume > >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumers in Edinburgh? > >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:44 -0500 > > > >The one with the fur? YES!!!! > > > >Susan > > > >"Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness" > Carol H. > > > > > >On Mar 23, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > > >>I love the Dutch lady's jacket, Nicole. One of > these days when I have a > >>bit of spare time I mean to make one of those for > myself... > >> > >>Kate Bunting > >>Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >> > >>>>>marquesate@hotmail.com 20/03/2006 23:32 >>> > >>Thank you ever so much for your kind words, > Bjarne, Saragrace and Jean. > >>:-) > >>I do have a little bit to show, even though I > didn't have much time for > >>website updates. That was an understatement, I had > no time. Here are some > >>of > >>my latest costumes & evening outfits: > >> > >>http://www.kipar.org/salacious-historian/sewingprojects.html > >> > >>Nicole > >> > >>-------------------- > >>"If you think education is expensive, try > ignorance." > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>h-costume mailing list > >>h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _________________________________________________________________ > Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? > Download MSN Messenger > 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 06:40:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OBe8au029190 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:40:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OBeIKI025535; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:40:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OBYqZu046505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:34:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OBYnsi064954; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:34:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OBYkga064850 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:34:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.343.8c7a29 (30739) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:34:38 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <343.8c7a29.3155334d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:34:37 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eyelet insertion trim To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:40:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4423DAA2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/24/2006 12:30:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: I am looking for black eyelet insertion or dyeable white and can't seem to find it anywhere. That's a tough one! Black eyelet of any kind seems to have gone away. I tried dyeing some off-white I had and got dark gray, I'm sure because it was a polyester blend. The good Swiss eyelets are 100% cotton, but they won't be cheap! Stores that cater to French heirloom sewing carry them. As they are so delicate, I'm not sure how well they would dye, either. Here is one site I found on a quick Google. Haven't dealt with them, as I have a couple of stores locally that carry these. If this search fails, can you use something else? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 08:23:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ODNWKV011898 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:23:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ODNfa8027628; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:23:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ODN84N073870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:23:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ODN0NG033261; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ODMwts033234 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:22:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m7so807093nzf for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 05:22:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=HKgGy29erdr63J+h1XimjWpBRUc5N3BdaNmmYjUS/yPYKvo7h1+7Rrzmzuv9mNu+K3599WzqHy1WvC1GiwKCpddqyU3OL+dwO3H4Zd7Lhxdegw6yXZ8xt6KIEj3Xz3OdxwNUPBX3sVXPx0gt9JkAY0MKDK+jcZWhNTBCOmRdtJE= Received: by 10.36.221.43 with SMTP id t43mr1125986nzg; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 05:22:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.42 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 05:22:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603240522x7d8ba4fcg1250b75f6119ef57@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:22:57 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eyelet insertion trim In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2ODMwts033234 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:23:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4423F2DD.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO This site claims to have all cotton trims, they're pricey. http://www.baltazor.com/xmasemb.html Katy On 3/24/06, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > Does anyone have any good online trim resources besides Jay Trims and > Cheaptrims? I am looking for black eyelet insertion or dyeable white > and can't seem to find it anywhere. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 09:02:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OE2WW2013587 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:02:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OE2fma027113; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:02:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OE2J1a077309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:02:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OE2GHV060360; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:02:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OE2CMN060239 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:02:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id ABDE026C; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:02:06 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.146 ([209.131.80.146] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 24 Mar 2006 09:01:55 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c64f4b$da4da160$925083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3586f5070603240522x7d8ba4fcg1250b75f6119ef57@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eyelet insertion trim Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:04:20 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:02:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4423FC01.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO You will find cotton laces at Homesew.com. I have been using their notions catalogue for years. Great selections of trim and notions in small yardage or whole bolts. (And their packets of 25 machine needles for less than $4 is a must for anyone doing costume type sewing!) Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eyelet insertion trim > This site claims to have all cotton trims, they're pricey. > > http://www.baltazor.com/xmasemb.html > > Katy > > On 3/24/06, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > Does anyone have any good online trim resources besides Jay Trims and > > Cheaptrims? I am looking for black eyelet insertion or dyeable white > > and can't seem to find it anywhere. > > > > Sylrog > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > -- > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 09:20:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OEKATP014430 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:20:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OEKJwd008184; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:20:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OEJpxx079046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:19:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OEJncg073077; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:19:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OEJiGq073034 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:19:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m73.in-tch.com [216.166.191.73]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2OEAjA05286 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:10:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <000601c64f4f$04eba2c0$49bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9910850.1143148298187.JavaMail.root@fepweb08><006701c64eec$fad8d300$4ebfa6d8@pavilion> <200603232258.36477.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:27:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:20:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44240023.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I wonder what she drugs or bribes them with? ;o) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cleaning fur > On Thursday 23 March 2006 9:45 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > [snip] > > Obligatory Costume Content: They're always willing to critique what I'm > > making, but they are not the sort that would be at all tolerant of having > > new costumes made for them. ;o) > > Ah, yes, but clearly cats are of different opinions about whether they will > wear costume. My cat refuses (albeit very politely) to wear anything other > than a collar, but Cynthia Virtue's cats cheerfully wear the medievaloid > headdresses she has made for them. :-) > > http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cat_hat_s1.jpg > http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cat_hat_s2.jpg > http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cat_hat_a1.jpg > > -- > Cathy Raymond _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 09:31:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OEVe6O014955 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:31:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OEVofT016756; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:31:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OEVFTE080670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:31:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OEVAjZ081805; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:31:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OEV7Zv081748 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:31:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-72-128-23-84.kc.res.rr.com [72.128.23.84]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2OEV5f4009758 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:31:06 -0600 (CST) From: "klh" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Cleaning fur Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:32:25 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <000601c64f4f$04eba2c0$49bfa6d8@pavilion> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2OEV7Zv081748 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:31:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442402D6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Cat Owner: Wear the pointy hat or you'll never see the catnip again! Cat: Damn! Okay, hand me the silly hat... -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 8:27 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cleaning fur I wonder what she drugs or bribes them with? ;o) --Sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 10:44:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OFiKmd018719 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:44:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OFiUsJ008296; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:44:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OFhhhs091346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:43:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OFhdb0045672; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OFhX8j045502 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:43:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.237.91ddcde (16110) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:43:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M31 (mblk-m31.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.75]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID122-3eee44241396290; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:43:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:43:17 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81D70CE24E5C2-1EA4-21DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200603241323.k2ODN1gv033275@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.75) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:43:17 -0500 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200603241323.k2ODN1gv033275@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.75 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eyelet insertion trim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:44:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442413DE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I haven't ordered from these guys yet, but I'm planning to soon: http://www.sewbizfabrics.com/ They have a big selection of trim and lace and the prices are great. Tea Rose =========================================================== Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:30:50 -0700 From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: [h-cost] Eyelet insertion trim Does anyone have any good online trim resources besides Jay Trims and Cheaptrims? I am looking for black eyelet insertion or dyeable white and can't seem to find it anywhere. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 11:59:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OGx0iJ020636 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:59:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OGx8Ba006512; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:59:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OGwU1H005071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:58:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OGwJvD017271; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:58:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52103.mail.yahoo.com (web52103.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.106]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2OGwFMp017085 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:58:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 74483 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2006 16:58:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=rfqrEYkHrjqoSkjrO1f+TjcFDpV7370Ke0mzCMAZdK5BBr8j31t5J0OaKPJqKoW4+QQN4JwAKI7Qgqcmh+DF/pQX7o3DqbnYeA4WK7/tN8+bYS9yGI8NN28GUfeTtaGqPDcOgHC9rmYUDuYSPZQ2larFbwyGBGOuTc+gFJ0CzZk= ; Message-ID: <20060324165809.74481.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52103.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:58:09 EST Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:58:09 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603241323.k2ODN1gt033275@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eyelet insertion trim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:59:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4424255C.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have white swiss insertions and edges that I am willing to part with. I bought it wholesale (at a discount at that) years ago from a Capitol Imports distributor back when I was doing Vic and heirloom. I know its 100% cotton so it'll take dye. Some are identical to the ones on that link someone sent. Let me know what you want and and how much of it you need and I'll see if I have something suitable. Kathy > Does anyone have any good online trim resources > besides Jay Trims and > Cheaptrims? I am looking for black eyelet insertion > or dyeable white > and can't seem to find it anywhere. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 12:11:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OHBP1d021015 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:11:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OHBXj4016772; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:11:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OH5sYj006543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:05:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OH5oQ6024138; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OH5lSW024083 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:05:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i11so1014589nzi for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:05:46 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=MfcFRQpVGwimzI2XZchiMBuTLiAUrAG7KMvAYmJe+NTblXUrX+2ttgEKDONcWQsHafYvHywpNi8w+QHyk6XN2DEe78QJc/AUutCqm3+83MliwzadWaAnR4prCzY391BV51Uis9ZvMHJcu8vY51cmP5t5gYJMvAgpG199axy9Q7A= Received: by 10.36.118.3 with SMTP id q3mr1435675nzc; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.42 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:05:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603240905r670c839dgb4506ab18c581986@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:05:46 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eyelet insertion trim In-Reply-To: <20060324165809.74481.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200603241323.k2ODN1gt033275@net.indra.com> <20060324165809.74481.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2OH5lSW024083 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:11:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44242845.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I've ben thinking of looking into Capitol Imports. How are they to deal with? I have a big project coming up that will require lots of Val lace trim. Katy On 3/24/06, Kathy Page wrote: > I have white swiss insertions and edges that I am > willing to part with. I bought it wholesale (at a > discount at that) years ago from a Capitol Imports > distributor back when I was doing Vic and heirloom. I > know its 100% cotton so it'll take dye. Some are > identical to the ones on that link someone sent. Let > me know what you want and and how much of it you need > and I'll see if I have something suitable. > > Kathy > > > Does anyone have any good online trim resources > > besides Jay Trims and > > Cheaptrims? I am looking for black eyelet insertion > > or dyeable white > > and can't seem to find it anywhere. > > Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert > > It's never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. > -Ivan Panin > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 14:48:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OJmMU7028202 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:48:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OJmVxw018599; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:48:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OJm9wh031290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:48:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OJm5ko071507; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:48:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OJlxnm071352 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:48:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55b9.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.185]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 72F02A5003B for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:47:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001e01c64f7b$db7f1bb0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:47:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] adding sleave frills X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:48:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44244D0F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, When adding 2 frills to an 18th century outfit, would you not gather each frill up separately, and then attach them on top of eachother? If i gather both on the same time, they make the same folds, wich i dont think is right? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 14:58:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OJwoeG028803 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:58:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OJx0gT028295; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:59:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OJwJpt033449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:58:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OJwHGA081165; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:58:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52104.mail.yahoo.com (web52104.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.107]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2OJvuf4080809 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:58:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 28271 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2006 19:57:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=L24WZcmjyLksUMIUVODjZ0t/OH15euXZuE0vnFGVt1IGPzZE6erlrZ5nBGf9zNyRqOKFKwXvqyigiCZq39yR3Vqp//AXQNooAY0slzDsQoUvmyUvJq8wA9/e/0MbJEaXFYflnf4Pp9Tyh8m+FKGERdp1bR3jpmwjkQhxlrWWCNE= ; Message-ID: <20060324195750.28269.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:57:50 EST Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:57:50 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603241914.k2OJEKel039174@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eyelet insertion trim X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:59:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44244F84.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO This was years ago, and I dealt with a Canadian distributor, which she was ahem... difficult, to say the least to deal with. I gave her the name "The Dragon Lady" for very good reason. She has since passed away and now Canada has no distributor, that I am currently aware of. I have no idea what Capitol is like directly though. I have a bunch of Val kicking around as well not earmarked for a project. If I have enough for your project, or at least some of it to get you started, let me know and we'll work something out. I'm only looking to get my costs out of this stuff, so I'm not planning on charging a fortune. I only keep the stuff I might make an outrageously fancy heirloom dress for my daughter out of. I largely don't do Vic anymore, swiss and val laces look wrong on Ren kits. Kathy > I've ben thinking of looking into Capitol Imports. > How are they to > deal with? I have a big project coming up that will > require lots of > Val lace trim. Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 15:05:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OK5Xn4029188 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:05:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OK5gLa001709; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:05:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OK553D034414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:05:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OK50dK087668; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:05:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OK4sEj087514 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:04:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1FMsWa-0006JR-6o for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:04:44 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:56:51 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor costumes for "dummies"? Help for a theatrical group References: <441F63C3.4070700@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<$I+N+Nlz4zNSeF4tpBjTWmMfCO>) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:05:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44245116.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Nicole, That's setting yourself a challenge! But I have to say, they're a lot better than the last time I went to Linlithgow Palace. I think you may be able to do a lot with what they have, by tightening up the tailoring and getting them into some proper underpinnings, or at least stiffening the garments. There's a lot of reasonable stuff there, especially the men, they just look too ... comfortable! (I don't mean that period clothing should be uncomfortable, but they look as if they could slump on the sofa in these costumes - tracksuit Tudor!) Jean Nicole Kipar wrote >Right, my question/dilemma is this: > >There is a very nice theatrical "amateur dramatics" group in my new >Scottish hometown near Edinburgh, called the Linithgow Players. In the >summer months they do plays dressed in Tudor costume at Linlithgow >Palace, the birthplace of Mary, Queen of Scots. They set place at the >Court of James V and act out scenes with Mary, all for Historic >Scotland (very similar to the National Trust or English Heritage). >Anywya, that said, the costumes are.. ermm... uhm... not so very good, >to be kind. > >I offered, because I just moved here on my own three weeks ago (my >partner's still serving and staioned 500 miles away *sniff*) and would >like to get stuck in with costumes and people and to have something >nice to do, to help with their costumes. That's all very well, but, >while I know a hellofa lot about clothing 1660 - 1715 I know next to >nothing about Tudor costumes. HELP! I am ordering Ninya's book, but as >Teddy said rightly, this is a theatrical group, we don't need to nor >want to make it authentic (they wouldn't even have the budget for that) >but to make it look GOOD and make it look better than it is now. Bless >them, some costumes are quite nice, but others, I think, we could >definitely do something about that and I would love to help and get the >needle going (and spend some time in the pub with company ;-) This is >their photo page: > >http://www.linlithgowplayers.org.uk/LPsite/PhotosRe-enactments.htm > >Don't let yourself be fooled by the "reenactment" bit, I don't think >they got the terminology quite right. It's definitely acting, not >re-enacting and we would see it. :-) > >Anyway, I don't know where to start, I feel lost in a jungle of Too >Much Information. Can anyone, please pleae please point me into the >right direction of where to start getting a really good feel for Tudor >period costumes and, most importantly, which patterns could be adapted >(I have Margo Anderson's Lady's wardrobe and Man's wardrobe) and if I >can even use some commercial big companies patterns, because those are >usually quite easy. Any and all help appreciated, I'd love it if I >could help them get the look a bit more right and at the same time do >it on a tiny (!!!) budget and a shoestring with only four hands to help >(another lady's and mine - and I'm actually overworked at my new work >anyway thus haven't got 'that' much time). > >Thanks ever so much in advance, I really am drowning in websites, >books, info, and just don't know where to start and where to go to for >a theatrical good looking budget version (it has to be court costume) >of Tudor costume. > >Nicole > >-------------------- >"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." > >_________________________________________________________________ >Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free >newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 15:12:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKCTJr029533 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKCdAj007912; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKCMQY035484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:12:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKCKLC095001; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:12:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKCHKQ094812 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:12:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A29102CC; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:01 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.142 ([209.131.80.142] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 24 Mar 2006 15:11:50 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c64f7f$880c82c0$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c64f7b$db7f1bb0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] adding sleave frills Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:14:14 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:42 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442452B7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I like the lay better if the ruffles are gathered and set separately.. Otherwise, the fold you describe appears more as a time saver lacking in grace. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] adding sleave frills > Hi, > When adding 2 frills to an 18th century outfit, would you not gather each > frill up separately, and then attach them on top of eachother? > If i gather both on the same time, they make the same folds, wich i dont > think is right? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 15:14:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKE32u029637 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:14:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKECBK017261; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:14:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKDxsM035698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:13:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKDvMT096696; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:13:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (staff.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKDrf0096521 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:13:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from rmitchellras [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A2FA02B8; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:13:46 -0500 Received: from 209.131.80.142 ([209.131.80.142] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam; 24 Mar 2006 15:13:43 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c64f7f$cb656aa0$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060324195750.28269.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eyelet insertion trim Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:16:10 -0500 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:14:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44245314.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In my experience, the product is super even if a little pricey for some of the patterns. I have had very good service. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 2:57 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eyelet insertion trim > This was years ago, and I dealt with a Canadian > distributor, which she was ahem... difficult, to say > the least to deal with. I gave her the name "The > Dragon Lady" for very good reason. She has since > passed away and now Canada has no distributor, that I > am currently aware of. > I have no idea what Capitol is like directly though. > I have a bunch of Val kicking around as well not > earmarked for a project. If I have enough for your > project, or at least some of it to get you started, > let me know and we'll work something out. I'm only > looking to get my costs out of this stuff, so I'm not > planning on charging a fortune. I only keep the stuff > I might make an outrageously fancy heirloom dress for > my daughter out of. I largely don't do Vic anymore, > swiss and val laces look wrong on Ren kits. > > Kathy > > > I've ben thinking of looking into Capitol Imports. > > How are they to > > deal with? I have a big project coming up that will > > require lots of > > Val lace trim. > > Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert > > It's never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. > -Ivan Panin > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 15:29:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKTeOP030545 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:29:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKTnTK022702; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:29:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKTb97038017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:29:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKTZJr011794; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:29:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKTVww011722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:29:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (209-148-124-153.arc15.nas3.200p.dial.sonic.net [209.148.124.153]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2OKTSp2002859 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:29:30 -0800 Message-ID: <442456AB.6090301@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:29:31 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Eyelet insertion trim References: <20060324195750.28269.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060324195750.28269.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:29:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442456BD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO There's enough vintage eyelet and other laces on eBay to sink a ship. Try the categories + subcategories Collectibles/Linens Fabric Textiles/Lace and Doilies and Antiques/Texiles Linens/Lace Crochet Doilies Not narrow, and not exactly eyelet, but the eBay seller China-USA sells great hand-embroidered tablecloths I use for fabric. And right now they have several lots of hand-embroidered fabric up at $25 for 90 inches of 56-inch hand-embroidered cotton material. Their merchandise really is hand embroidered, crocheted, tatted, etc., with very good workmanship, and it washer dyes very well with Procion dyes. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 15:31:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKVREr030668 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:31:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKVbOE022467; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:31:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKUw5b038154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:30:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKUuJw013096; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.179]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2OKUphA012872 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 88585 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2006 20:30:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=dOdWxZR7RibBc8Tj0OnE0QIpNioQyvFgmIilVp/LrrLXUhUY1FoOvEPzyd3jIfUtlnXRprhhB2+cdTxkT7Ong6goAae0ffmGcvXgTKgRhD8kF8SFKQfZKfVhHyWhSXYkRciBDp7JvuicAy8+zYfLsZH5obRBIqsb9GQ26d7HGcA= ; Message-ID: <20060324203029.88583.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:30:29 GMT Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:30:29 +0000 (GMT) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] Sourcing bizarre fabric.. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:31:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44245729.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello I wimped out on a costume today because I just didn't have the right fabric to make the 'underskirt' or sleeve lining of this dress (the green one Eowyn wears in LoTR: Two Towers) http://www.costumersguide.com/eowyn_green.shtml I've tried as many fabric places as I know (and contacted quite a few in London too) but no luck so far. Has anyone seen anything like the green leaf fabric which is overdyed and crinkly? I just couldn't bring myself to use the too dull but vaguely leaf-like furniture fabric I found... Thank you once again, Katherine "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 15:46:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKk2Qj031524 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:46:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OKkCqm004086; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:46:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKjclP039994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:45:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKjROK027382; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:45:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from randymail-a5.dreamhost.com (ip-208-97-132-5.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OKjMfE027315 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:45:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from guenievre@erminespot.com) Received: from JS (nsc69.38.51-209.newsouth.net [69.38.51.209]) by randymail-a5.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BE9903AF for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:45:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Guenievre de Monmarche" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sourcing bizarre fabric.. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:43:42 -0500 Message-ID: <01e001c64f83$a3fa2e70$1a01a8c0@tereckoffice.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcZPghOcVo+IPj1+QISU1+W8RKCp8wAAXp4w In-Reply-To: <20060324203029.88583.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2OKjMfE027315 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:46:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44245A94.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That looks painted, you might could get something almost right but without the leaves and then have fun with fabric paint and a leaf-stamp... Guenièvre > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of katherine sanders > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:30 PM > To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Sourcing bizarre fabric.. > > Hello > > I wimped out on a costume today because I just didn't > have the right fabric to make the 'underskirt' or > sleeve lining of this dress (the green one Eowyn wears > in LoTR: Two Towers) > http://www.costumersguide.com/eowyn_green.shtml > > I've tried as many fabric places as I know (and > contacted quite a few in London too) but no luck so > far. Has anyone seen anything like the green leaf > fabric which is overdyed and crinkly? I just couldn't > bring myself to use the too dull but vaguely leaf-like > furniture fabric I found... > > Thank you once again, > Katherine > > "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will > annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 17:13:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OMDmrK003400 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:13:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OMDwjS013041; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:14:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OMCGFP051541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OMCCDo009765; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OMC7GO009673 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2478a.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.138]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 34F68A50034 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:12:05 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001201c64f90$032e78e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001e01c64f7b$db7f1bb0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <000901c64f7f$880c82c0$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] adding sleave frills Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:12:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:14:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44246F26.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Kathleen, Yep, thanks. Do you know if this is done in the period as well? Wished i had something to examine from the period. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] adding sleave frills >I like the lay better if the ruffles are gathered and set separately.. > Otherwise, the fold you describe appears more as a time saver lacking in > grace. > Kathleen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 2:47 PM > Subject: [h-cost] adding sleave frills > > >> Hi, >> When adding 2 frills to an 18th century outfit, would you not gather each >> frill up separately, and then attach them on top of eachother? >> If i gather both on the same time, they make the same folds, wich i dont >> think is right? >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 17:20:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OMKoBJ003737 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:20:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2OMKxs3018145; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:21:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OMKMR5052417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:20:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OMKJg2017536; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:20:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2OMKGmp017482 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:20:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2478a.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.138]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F1DADA5003C for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:20:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001901c64f91$26a5f360$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060324203029.88583.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sourcing bizarre fabric.. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:20:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:21:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442470CB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Katherine, I cant help you with the fabric, but my god this is a beautifull gown. I didnt see this movie, but i guess i have to buy the DVD. Wonderfull trims you have found for the collar piece. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "katherine sanders" To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 9:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sourcing bizarre fabric.. > Hello > > I wimped out on a costume today because I just didn't > have the right fabric to make the 'underskirt' or > sleeve lining of this dress (the green one Eowyn wears > in LoTR: Two Towers) > http://www.costumersguide.com/eowyn_green.shtml > > I've tried as many fabric places as I know (and > contacted quite a few in London too) but no luck so > far. Has anyone seen anything like the green leaf > fabric which is overdyed and crinkly? I just couldn't > bring myself to use the too dull but vaguely leaf-like > furniture fabric I found... > > Thank you once again, > Katherine > > "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will > annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with > voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 18:01:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ON12XN005441 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:01:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ON1BnS013746; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:01:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ON0gFT057887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:00:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ON0dXx055363; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:00:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ON0Z2x055284 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2478a.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.138]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5509FA5002D for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:00:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003401c64f96$cba90be0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:00:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:01:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44247A37.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Another list, has given an url to a picture of an outfit from Jefferson in Paris, and here is the picture: http://photobucket.com/albums/f344/fashioninfilm/?action=view¤t=100_9322.jpg How is this closing made? To me it must be made with a larger piece ajusted for the buttons. Isnt this wrong? Should it not be that when closed with the buttons, the embroidery overlaps eachother? I am confused! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 18:25:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ONPabl006375 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:25:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ONPkBE031021; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:25:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ONP96q061093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ONOs3J077921; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:24:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ONOodw077778 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:24:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FMveD-0004sS-64; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:24:49 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:24:49 -0500 Message-ID: <20060324182449.3i2s9r59kqyoscck@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:24:49 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Another Pregnant Elizabethan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:25:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44247FFA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Found another one http://www.weissgallery.com/detail.asp?id=26&category=current I stumbled onto this site while I was looking for something by Robert Peake. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 18:33:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ONXQPs006664 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:33:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ONXaac004163; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:33:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ONXKe4062382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:33:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ONXIUl085528; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:33:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2ONX7uZ085320 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:33:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 94198 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2006 23:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.134.32.248 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Mar 2006 23:33:01 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060324232838.01df5808@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:32:54 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing In-Reply-To: <003401c64f96$cba90be0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <003401c64f96$cba90be0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:33:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442481D0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 23:00 24/03/2006, you wrote: >Hi, >Another list, has given an url to a picture of an outfit from >Jefferson in Paris, and here is the picture: >http://photobucket.com/albums/f344/fashioninfilm/?action=view¤t=100_9322.jpg > >How is this closing made? To me it must be made with a larger piece >ajusted for the buttons. Isnt this wrong? >Should it not be that when closed with the buttons, the embroidery >overlaps eachother? >I am confused! > >Bjarne Bjarne I am not sure if I understand your problem, but this style of coat was never intended to close using the buttons and buttonholes. It is quite likely in fact, that the buttonholes are not even slit open. On an original coat of this style there would be a couple of hooks and loops high on the chest, and the coat would meet when these were fastened, not overlap. Hope this helps you understand. The costumes for this film came from Cosprop, the best costume house in London, and they are well known for their collection of original garments which they use as patterns for new costumes. http://www.cosprop.co.uk/ Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 19:09:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P093IL008996 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:09:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P09DYV027607; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:09:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P08kO1066601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:08:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P08hlR016835; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:08:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P08eqI016796 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:08:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.146.82.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.146.82]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1FMwKc-000101-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:08:39 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <003401c64f96$cba90be0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <003401c64f96$cba90be0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5209DFA7-BB94-11DA-8255-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:14:26 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:09:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44248A29.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne-- If you mean the closing on the waistcoat, yes, that's exactly what it looks like: the embroidery design is centered on the waistcoat, and the buttonholes are off-center; the fabric on the right-hand side of the waistcoat (the button side) continues beyond the embroidery. The buttons are sewn on this unembroidered part, which is invisible when the waistcoat is buttoned closed. So on the left side (the buttonhole side) the embroidery continues to the center edge and ends with that vertical line, but on the right side (the button side) the embroidery ends with a vertical line at center front, but the fabric continues beyond the center-front line, under the buttonholes. The button design is similar enough to the embroidery that the buttons almost disappear into the embroidered design. Very clever! Does that make sense? I have no idea what was standard for the period, but it's certainly what I think I'm seeing in the picture. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner gypsy scholar and amateur costumer On Mar 24, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > Another list, has given an url to a picture of an outfit from > Jefferson in Paris, and here is the picture: > http://photobucket.com/albums/f344/fashioninfilm/? > action=view¤t=100_9322.jpg > > How is this closing made? To me it must be made with a larger piece > ajusted for the buttons. Isnt this wrong? > Should it not be that when closed with the buttons, the embroidery > overlaps eachother? > I am confused! > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 19:22:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P0Mp1B009486 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:22:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P0N1ee005007; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:23:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0HHJb068094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:17:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0HGuS024196; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:17:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0HC8m024056 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:17:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2ad.5f1b9a (3866) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:17:01 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2ad.5f1b9a.3155e5fc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:17:00 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] adding sleave frills To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:23:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44248D65.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/24/2006 2:49:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: When adding 2 frills to an 18th century outfit, would you not gather each frill up separately, and then attach them on top of eachother? If i gather both on the same time, they make the same folds, wich i dont think is right? ******************* Oh yes! One can be sewn to the bottom of the sleeve and the other slightly above the bottom of the sleeve to reduce the bulk where they are gathered as well. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 19:30:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P0UIAW009717 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:30:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P0URui010179; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:30:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0U9QX069363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:30:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0U4MW034397; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:30:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0U082034272 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:30:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.363.669412 (3866) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:29:50 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <363.669412.3155e8fe@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:29:50 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:30:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44248F23.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/24/2006 6:02:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: How is this closing made? It would appear that the edges of the embroidery are at true CF, and an underlap has either been added or cut into the right side. The buttonholes on the left come very close to the finished, embroidered edge, and the buttons are sewn to the underlap [which can be narrow]. This places the buttons just off of CF. This added underlap is a good method for a curved CF opening [of course it works with a straight one too...but there the underlap can just be cut into the fabric]. You see it in 19th century women's bodices a lot, when they curve over the bust and into the waist. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 19:44:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P0io3F010253 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:44:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P0ixQp019604; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:45:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0iIj4070971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:44:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0iGJe045797; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:44:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P0iDKl045644 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:44:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.202.128a4517 (3866) for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:44:00 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <202.128a4517.3155ec50@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:44:00 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:45:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4424928C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/24/2006 6:33:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: am not sure if I understand your problem, ***************** I thought he meant the waistcoat! but this style of coat was never intended to close using the buttons and buttonholes. It is quite likely in fact, that the buttonholes are not even slit open. On an original coat of this style there would be a couple of hooks and loops high on the chest, and the coat would meet when these were fastened, not overlap. A great tip I learned on "Last of the Mohicans" was, when you have a curved front that doesn't close, like in "Mohicans" which is 1750s, or one that is more curved and butts up together at CF, like you find later in the century... In the seam allowance just shy of where it is to be finished, run a couple of rows of gathering threads along the length [3"-5"] of the outermost part of the curve and ease it up ever so slightly. Stabilize the eased part by basting it to a 1/4" piece of twill tape right where the finished edge will be. Then finish it up as you ordinarily would....easing the lining too. If you do it right, you cannot see any of the ease and the curved edge will lay flat and not stick out away from the chest any. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 24 23:24:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P4OHbJ018508 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:24:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P4OQqw031710; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:24:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P4O2wG098535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:24:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P4Nq7t006160; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:23:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2P4Nl1G006052 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:23:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 7530 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2006 04:23:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2006 04:23:41 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060325042204.01da8870@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:23:35 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing In-Reply-To: <202.128a4517.3155ec50@aol.com> References: <202.128a4517.3155ec50@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:24:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4424C5FA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > >am not sure if I understand your problem, >***************** > >I thought he meant the waistcoat! That will teach me to read the headers as well as the questions!! Suzi > > >but this style of coat >was never intended to close using the buttons and buttonholes. It is >quite likely in fact, that the buttonholes are not even slit open. On >an original coat of this style there would be a couple of hooks and >loops high on the chest, and the coat would meet when these were >fastened, not overlap. > >A great tip I learned on "Last of the Mohicans" was, when you have a curved >front that doesn't close, like in "Mohicans" which is 1750s, or one that is >more curved and butts up together at CF, like you find later in >the century... > >In the seam allowance just shy of where it is to be finished, run a couple >of rows of gathering threads along the length [3"-5"] of >the outermost part of >the curve and ease it up ever so slightly. Stabilize the eased part by >basting it to a 1/4" piece of twill tape right where the >finished edge will be. >Then finish it up as you ordinarily would....easing the lining too. > >If you do it right, you cannot see any of the ease and the curved edge will >lay flat and not stick out away from the chest any. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 00:06:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P56q4r020152 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:06:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P571kv024699; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:07:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P56gjo003369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:06:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P56eRr033981; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:06:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.109.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P56aMe033923 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:06:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) Received: from Martha (cpe-72-225-255-212.nyc.res.rr.com [72.225.255.212]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id k2P54RVx027239 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:04:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:06:51 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200603250009.k2P08qVM017006@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 18th century sleeve ruffles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:07:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4424CFF5.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, When adding 2 frills to an 18th century outfit, would you not gather each frill up separately, and then attach them on top of eachother? If i gather both on the same time, they make the same folds, wich i dont think is right? Bjarne Bjarne I've been studying some spectacular 18th century gowns at the Costume Institute this past year. I've not seen any that had multiple sleeve ruffles gathered as one. Sometimes they're mounted right on top of each other and sometimes there's space between them. Often they start above the hem of the sleeve, but I've also seen the bottom (longest) ruffle whipped to the sleeve edge. A very nice treatment is to have a header on the top ruffle that's stitched down along its upper edge as well, forming a band of trim. The shape of the two or three ruffles on a sleeve are not the same. I'm sure you've looked at Janet Arnold's examples. What's amazing to me is the really wham-bam construction on the inside of the garments. Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 02:33:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P7XQq8031406 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:33:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P7XZMQ011995; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:33:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P7X5An019166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:33:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P7WxrH026321; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:33:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P7WuB7026272 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:32:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1022A0000EE; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:28:02 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Sourcing bizarre fabric.. Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:33:23 -0800 Message-ID: <002201c64fde$65f46f90$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20060324203029.88583.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:33:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4424F24F.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I once found some very like that at a second hand store---it was curtains. Try a sheer curtain fabric, maybe lined with some colored muslin/silk. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of katherine sanders Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 12:30 PM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Sourcing bizarre fabric.. Hello I wimped out on a costume today because I just didn't have the right fabric to make the 'underskirt' or sleeve lining of this dress (the green one Eowyn wears in LoTR: Two Towers) http://www.costumersguide.com/eowyn_green.shtml I've tried as many fabric places as I know (and contacted quite a few in London too) but no luck so far. Has anyone seen anything like the green leaf fabric which is overdyed and crinkly? I just couldn't bring myself to use the too dull but vaguely leaf-like furniture fabric I found... Thank you once again, Katherine "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 02:36:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P7aHr7032082 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:36:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2P7aR2g013515; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:36:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P7aFHN019333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:36:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P7aF18028410; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:36:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2P7aCqo028383 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:36:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A1C69A103AA; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:31:18 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:36:39 -0800 Message-ID: <002301c64fde$daaaf9d0$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <003401c64f96$cba90be0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2P7aCqo028383 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:36:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4424F2FB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I don't think this is meant to close, it just looks as if it could. Modern suits have non-practical buttons on the sleeves, a holdover from when they really would have buttoned. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 3:01 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing Hi, Another list, has given an url to a picture of an outfit from Jefferson in Paris, and here is the picture: http://photobucket.com/albums/f344/fashioninfilm/?action=view¤t=100_93 22.jpg How is this closing made? To me it must be made with a larger piece ajusted for the buttons. Isnt this wrong? Should it not be that when closed with the buttons, the embroidery overlaps eachother? I am confused! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 05:18:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PAI3fW003081 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 05:18:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PAICx6016041; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 05:18:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PAHv9W052775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 03:17:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PAHsSG030121; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 03:17:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PAHoJv030100 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 03:17:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55fe.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.254]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3BED5FAC053 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:17:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001d01c64ff5$66252510$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003401c64f96$cba90be0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <6.2.3.4.0.20060324232838.01df5808@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:18:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 05:18:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442518E4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi i ment the waistcoat, not the coat. It seems that the left side where the buttonholes are, was made larger besides the embroidery, to have the embroidery edge to edge when buttoned! This they didnt do back in 18th century. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing > At 23:00 24/03/2006, you wrote: >>Hi, >>Another list, has given an url to a picture of an outfit from Jefferson in >>Paris, and here is the picture: >>http://photobucket.com/albums/f344/fashioninfilm/?action=view¤t=100_9322.jpg >> >>How is this closing made? To me it must be made with a larger piece >>ajusted for the buttons. Isnt this wrong? >>Should it not be that when closed with the buttons, the embroidery >>overlaps eachother? >>I am confused! >> >>Bjarne > > > Bjarne > > I am not sure if I understand your problem, but this style of coat was > never intended to close using the buttons and buttonholes. It is quite > likely in fact, that the buttonholes are not even slit open. On an > original coat of this style there would be a couple of hooks and loops > high on the chest, and the coat would meet when these were fastened, not > overlap. Hope this helps you understand. The costumes for this film came > from Cosprop, the best costume house in London, and they are well known > for their collection of original garments which they use as patterns for > new costumes. > > http://www.cosprop.co.uk/ > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 06:19:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PBJ5c6015351 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:19:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PBJFDY021137; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:19:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PBIpZX058372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:18:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PBIjf7071667; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:18:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PBIf7w071572 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:18:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.221.a1c6174 (4568) for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:18:29 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <221.a1c6174.31568105@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:18:29 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:19:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44252733.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/25/2006 5:18:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: This they didnt do back in 18th century. Are you sure? Remember that these waistcoats were usually embroidered flat, and then cut out and made up, so there could have been some variation in how it was done. I admit, it seems I usually don't see it that way, but rather with the embroidery lapped and therefore "off center," which looks strange to modern eyes. So you may be right that this is a modern adjustment for modern esthetics. And, even though it didn't answer Bjarne's question, I was glad to have the information about easing the curved front edge of the coat. I have no immediate plans to make an 18th century coat but, if I ever do, I'll remember that! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 08:26:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PDQBeE003102 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:26:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PDQLk4015505; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:26:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PDPwaH070714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:25:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PDPtRu056227; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:25:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PDPpgT056137 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:25:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55fe.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.254]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F3BDDA50061 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:25:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001501c6500f$a75058b0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:25:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:26:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442544FD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, Thanks for your replyes regarding front closing of waistcoats. All the waistcoats i have seen, wich are quite a few, has the buttonholes made directly in the embroidery, this is why i didnt understood this Jefferson waistcoat. I would (believe me) have loved to make them this way, to protekt the embroidery and to reveal all of it, but it is not period to do it! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 10:05:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PF5Gdh007304 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:05:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PF5ODT019823; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:05:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PF52sP080034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:05:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PF4tRk023752; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PAZG6D041064 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 03:35:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABBD10C00A4; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:30:21 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:35:12 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c64ff7$ccd2a0b0$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001d01c64ff5$66252510$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2PAZG6D041064 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44255C34.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Could it fasten in back? I don't know if they did this in the 18th century, but we do it for onstage all the time. :) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:18 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing Hi i ment the waistcoat, not the coat. It seems that the left side where the buttonholes are, was made larger besides the embroidery, to have the embroidery edge to edge when buttoned! This they didnt do back in 18th century. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing > At 23:00 24/03/2006, you wrote: >>Hi, >>Another list, has given an url to a picture of an outfit from >>Jefferson in >>Paris, and here is the picture: >>http://photobucket.com/albums/f344/fashioninfilm/?action=view¤t=100_ 9322.jpg >> >>How is this closing made? To me it must be made with a larger piece >>ajusted for the buttons. Isnt this wrong? >>Should it not be that when closed with the buttons, the embroidery >>overlaps eachother? >>I am confused! >> >>Bjarne > > > Bjarne > > I am not sure if I understand your problem, but this style of coat was > never intended to close using the buttons and buttonholes. It is quite > likely in fact, that the buttonholes are not even slit open. On an > original coat of this style there would be a couple of hooks and loops > high on the chest, and the coat would meet when these were fastened, not > overlap. Hope this helps you understand. The costumes for this film came > from Cosprop, the best costume house in London, and they are well known > for their collection of original garments which they use as patterns for > new costumes. > > http://www.cosprop.co.uk/ > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 10:06:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PF5wx8007326 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:05:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PF69Sl002348; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:06:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PF5rR1080221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:05:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PF5qbh024588; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:05:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PCVakj019540 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 05:31:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IWO00A0WO4H7BNE@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:31:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:31:26 -0500 From: monica spence In-reply-to: <20060324182449.3i2s9r59kqyoscck@www.goldsword.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Cc: Laurel , Sca-Laurels Subject: [h-cost] swaddling bands X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:06:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44255C61.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi All-- I am looking for pictures of babies in swaddling bands. Does anyone have Federigo Barocci painting of "Prince Federigo of Urbino as a Baby" (also known as "Prince Federigo of Urbino in his Cradle". It was painted circa 1605 and is supposed to be in the Pitti Palace in Florence. Thanks-- Catriona MacDuff (Monica Spence) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 10:12:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PFCiOw007644 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:12:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PFCsES024332; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:12:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFCZFD080923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:12:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFCZI0029225; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:12:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFCV5x029149 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:12:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.87.38a89d3d (57293) for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:12:16 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <87.38a89d3d.3156b7d0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:12:16 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:12:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44255DF6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/25/2006 2:36:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sharon@collierfam.com writes: http://photobucket.com/albums/f344/fashioninfilm/?action=view¤t=100_93 22.jpg Y'all did of course check out the other photos on the site, right? The riding habit from "Jefferson in Paris" is there as well as some gowns from "Dangerous Liaisons"...without the wide panniers for some unknown reason! And some from "Titanic" [bleh!] and "Elizabeth" [yuck!]. Actually I haven't run thru all the pics yet, but even the bad costumes are fun to check out. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 10:17:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PFHMSk007965 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:17:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PFHXkG026635; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:17:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFGxrg081332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:16:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFGxcG032109; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:16:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFGuMv032048 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:16:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2b7.7513441 (57293) for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:16:48 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2b7.7513441.3156b8e0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:16:48 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] waistcoat front closing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:17:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44255F0D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/25/2006 5:18:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: It seems that the left side where the buttonholes are, was made larger besides the embroidery, to have the embroidery edge to edge when buttoned! This they didnt do back in 18th century. ****************** Never say never, y'know.... But you can clearly see in the waistcoats in the Kyoto book the embroidery going under the left side as the fronts overlap. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 10:18:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PFIgfK008063 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:18:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PFIrvX004803; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:18:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFIb0d081486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:18:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFIVYh033069; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:18:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFIU6q033049 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:18:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so1098909nzk for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:18:30 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ISzO0OYLnAcidcmVKDlB6lcrO+IbjvOvJC2om2yMGTNQt9a4l+N+HHjx+Hsj1vkgTwMfVhAONhRt52b8ksULFlKrSAu5FfF7MEMLCFpYNW+QvZmQ8ilLQmD6VDVNbQeN6Ntv6egczONXnF84DTU33skzWDzo5Ks+4mTvWCUufCY= Received: by 10.36.97.1 with SMTP id u1mr2663626nzb; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.42 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:18:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603250718s5138208dj52ce9caf1530ceb8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:18:30 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] swaddling bands In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060324182449.3i2s9r59kqyoscck@www.goldsword.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2PFIU6q033049 Cc: Laurel , Sca-Laurels X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:18:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44255F5D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Monica, I have a copy of "I Principi Bambini" from the Palazzo Pitti gallery of Costume, bought in 1986 in Florence. It ahs several pictures of babies in swaddling bands. There is one "Federico Ubaldo della Rovere (1605-1623) Allessandro Vitali. Swaddlied in what looks like an embroidered or fancy woven cloth. It is a pic in black and white. The baby is sideways, half covered with a n embroidered? blanket Katy On 3/25/06, monica spence wrote: > > Hi All-- > I am looking for pictures of babies in swaddling bands. Does anyone have > Federigo Barocci painting of "Prince Federigo of Urbino as a Baby" (also > known as "Prince Federigo of Urbino in his Cradle". It was painted circa > 1605 and is supposed to be in the Pitti Palace in Florence. > > Thanks-- > > Catriona MacDuff > > (Monica Spence) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 10:56:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PFu1iD009707 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:56:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PFuBnc019922; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:56:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFtu9L084718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:55:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFtsiq057131; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:55:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PFtmQd057067 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:55:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.159] (pm5-159.eos.net [205.133.149.159]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k2PFtlQN009362 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:55:47 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:43:32 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200603251519.k2PFIWsM033088@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: waistcoat closing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:56:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4425681B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne: I don't know if that was a correct construction or not, but wow!!! It is gorgeous. And I love the giant jeweled buttons on the coat. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 12:21:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PHLmJl013521 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:21:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PHLvBO010231; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:22:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PHLR3V093154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:21:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PHLKZB017622; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:21:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31710.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31710.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.190]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2PHLH08017530 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:21:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rosenau5@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 86053 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2006 17:21:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=q4rnBXG7wnMsNQlM7V2AbufSqkW7/FdXIpKOBNq7ggaKo9arweIhR3ZvJIG8/SSStXwcKnQmQQdHMKMXGcKpUcmklmrp/j1gjlnysJrULVOUBXbjxqAaVW45lXfBbJA6Y7NhK6O3r2NYpjYHVZIfgk1dRq873iOUkXL5jmPxIHA= ; Message-ID: <20060325172111.86051.qmail@web31710.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.250.65.75] by web31710.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:21:11 PST Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: Cascio Michael To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] kimono questions again X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:22:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44257C36.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello again, I'm looking at doing the "traditional" kimono with the collar standing away from the back of the neck and the collar crossing across the front of the chest. As far as I can tell this style originated about 300 years ago so that is the timeframe I am looking at. What research I've done indicates that there was an underkimono or other undergarments to protect the silk from body oils, hence my questions about undergarments and linens. I've also read that the obi was a high court item and that kimono were layered up to 12 at a time. The combinations of colors in the layers could have specific names too. My questions: If I stiffen the collar to stand away from the neck I can use hair canvas and just air the outer layer? What would the undergarments have been like approximately 300 years ago? I'm used to thinking of linen for the layer next to the skin so it can be washed frequently. Is this correct for Japanese undergarments or would they have used cotton? The discussions on-line of modern kimono wear show a fake undercollar and say that it is cooler. I'm assuming this is the modern equivalent of a partlet or dickey and I would rather have the complete underlayer so I don't have to wash the silk. Would the underkimono have had a stiff collar also and if so would it still be a hair canvas? I've not had much success with hair canvas standing up to the amount of washing a body linen would require. What was worn before the obi or instead of the obi for a working or merchant class woman? I realize that kimono just means "something to wear" and that each garment has a specific name but when I say kimono most people get the general idea. I'm working on a middle class, middle age married woman wardrobe and hope for some color and pattern information too. I know the sleeves also changed based on the age and status of the wearer. Any help gladly appreciated. Cassandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 12:36:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PHaYHa014094 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:36:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2PHai18021156; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:36:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PHaXKr094996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:36:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2PHaWRf029281; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:36:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2PHaSpf029177 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:36:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABCCL952AF662V2 for (sender ); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LLBWMERR; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:34:52 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:29:23 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] kimono questions again Message-ID: <20060325.112923.-7442289.1.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,9-18,20-71 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 25:12:3000321780 X-MAIL-INFO: 2868915d915d154d158cac15099c25cdd1b95c950d711195f861e9a988c81c087921796d01296d010c8d010cc81cc11509415d0d15e9e8e15d78e958d5a1e9b1192508b9087dbd0c4501088d X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn73vv3be7yXduiVuvU461rmbwslqbo9k74A== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:36:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44257FAC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The best book on the history of kimono that I have found is- Kimono: Fashioning Culture Liza Crihfield Dalby Avery Press, boulder colorado ISBN 0-300-05639-7 It should answer all your questions and then some. Liza Dalby is the American anthropologist who went thru formal geisha training and then wrote a very detailed book about her expereince. Karen Seamstrix On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:21:11 -0800 (PST) Cascio Michael writes: > Hello again, > I'm looking at doing the "traditional" kimono with > the collar standing away from the back of the neck and > the collar crossing across the front of the chest. > As far as I can tell this style originated about > 300 years ago so that is the timeframe I am looking > at. What research I've done indicates that there was > an underkimono or other undergarments to protect the > silk from body oils, hence my questions about > undergarments and linens. I've also read that the obi > was a high court item and that kimono were layered up > to 12 at a time. The combinations of colors in the > layers could have specific names too. > My questions: If I stiffen the collar to stand > away from the neck I can use hair canvas and just air > the outer layer? > What would the undergarments have been like > approximately 300 years ago? I'm used to thinking of > linen for the layer next to the skin so it can be > washed frequently. Is this correct for Japanese > undergarments or would they have used cotton? > The discussions on-line of modern kimono wear show > a fake undercollar and say that it is cooler. I'm > assuming this is the modern equivalent of a partlet or > dickey and I would rather have the complete underlayer > so I don't have to wash the silk. > Would the underkimono have had a stiff collar also > and if so would it still be a hair canvas? I've not > had much success with hair canvas standing up to the > amount of washing a body linen would require. > What was worn before the obi or instead of the obi > for a working or merchant class woman? > I realize that kimono just means "something to > wear" and that each garment has a specific name but > when I say kimono most people get the general idea. > I'm working on a middle class, middle age married > woman wardrobe and hope for some color and pattern > rmation too. I know the sleeves also changed > based on the age and status of the wearer. > Any help gladly appreciated. > Cassandra > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 22:24:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2Q3OqsZ022583 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:24:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2Q3OxiN016069; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:25:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2Q3OaDb063937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:24:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2Q3OUKB052866; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:24:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2Q3ORvJ052760 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:24:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IWP00JH5TGCNPK1@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:24:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:24:08 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] swaddling bands In-reply-to: <3586f5070603250718s5138208dj52ce9caf1530ceb8@mail.gmail.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:25:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4426098B.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Katy-- Yes- That is the one. I have it in B&W, and was hoping for color... I don't have a scanner and need it for a class... Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Katy Bishop Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:19 AM To: Historical Costume Cc: Laurel; Sca-Laurels Subject: Re: [h-cost] swaddling bands Dear Monica, I have a copy of "I Principi Bambini" from the Palazzo Pitti gallery of Costume, bought in 1986 in Florence. It ahs several pictures of babies in swaddling bands. There is one "Federico Ubaldo della Rovere (1605-1623) Allessandro Vitali. Swaddlied in what looks like an embroidered or fancy woven cloth. It is a pic in black and white. The baby is sideways, half covered with a n embroidered? blanket Katy On 3/25/06, monica spence wrote: > > Hi All-- > I am looking for pictures of babies in swaddling bands. Does anyone have > Federigo Barocci painting of "Prince Federigo of Urbino as a Baby" (also > known as "Prince Federigo of Urbino in his Cradle". It was painted circa > 1605 and is supposed to be in the Pitti Palace in Florence. > > Thanks-- > > Catriona MacDuff > > (Monica Spence) > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Mar 25 22:53:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2Q3r0Qh025298 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:53:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2Q3rBDa032421; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:53:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2Q3qgog066240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:52:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2Q3qdMn069983; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:52:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2Q3qamb069915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FNMIp-0004ot-FL; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:52:31 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:52:31 -0500 Message-ID: <20060325225231.zvi3wswqei4occ04@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:52:31 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] swaddling bands References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:53:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44261027.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting monica spence : > > Hi All-- > I am looking for pictures of babies in swaddling bands. Does anyone have > Federigo Barocci painting of "Prince Federigo of Urbino as a Baby" (also > known as "Prince Federigo of Urbino in his Cradle". It was painted circa > 1605 and is supposed to be in the Pitti Palace in Florence. I've got that one -- he's actually not swaddled. I've another by Titi that *does* show a baby swaddled. I scanned both of these from Thornton's Italian Renaissance Interiors. http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/barocci_UrbinoPrince-thorntonFig86-sm.jpg http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/titi_MediciPrince_thorntonFig87-sm.jpg Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 26 10:48:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2QFmHr8001786 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:48:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2QFmRli022955; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:48:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QFm8oN044176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:48:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QFlxDC091160; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:47:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2Q5ophg046105 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:50:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IWQ0026308JVU7F@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 00:50:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 00:50:43 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] swaddling bands In-reply-to: <20060325225231.zvi3wswqei4occ04@www.goldsword.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:48:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4426B7CB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thank you!! These are Perfect!!! Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] swaddling bands Quoting monica spence : > > Hi All-- > I am looking for pictures of babies in swaddling bands. Does anyone have > Federigo Barocci painting of "Prince Federigo of Urbino as a Baby" (also > known as "Prince Federigo of Urbino in his Cradle". It was painted circa > 1605 and is supposed to be in the Pitti Palace in Florence. I've got that one -- he's actually not swaddled. I've another by Titi that *does* show a baby swaddled. I scanned both of these from Thornton's Italian Renaissance Interiors. http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/barocci_UrbinoPrince-thorntonFig8 6-sm.jpg http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/titi_MediciPrince_thorntonFig87-s m.jpg Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 26 10:50:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2QFo4Cv001859 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:50:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2QFoFm7015259; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:50:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QFnva4044499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:49:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QFnuW5092668; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:49:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31912.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31912.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.92]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2QFNSp0075836 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:23:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tania_gr17@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 18595 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2006 15:23:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=buYzuIkwpRbmP+/62A09sfHag7shjQnLgkDJ/vtlXUkctTgp9Vs1S46pm1XzZUTu/qC9z3hklTfmy9TZQARHAqzvMz6vqCAYsych+Kk/tmIyivB4RcCSSe2g9nfGyOQR0xgS3VlJZvwKZFFc+8G582PLZUpiC2uFyoSCFs+vyIA= ; Message-ID: <20060326152323.18593.qmail@web31912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.79.63.35] by web31912.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:23:23 PST Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:23:23 -0800 (PST) From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: arsenic To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:50:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4426B837.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That is actually an old horsecopers trick. You give the horse a small amount of arsenic everyday untill you are ready to sell it. The ´horse will react to the arsenic by getting fat and the skin will get glossy, once the horse is sold the horse will lose weight and the arsenic stored in the fat will be released into the body causing death. Tania Gail & Scott Finke wrote: It does stay in the body, that's how they test for it. I read a murder mystery once based on the idea that if you feed someone small bits of arsenic every day, they die if you withhold it! I don't know if that one is true or not. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 26 12:09:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2QH9O42005304 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:09:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2QH9ZBk017802; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:09:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QH9704053962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:09:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QH94b9046030; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:09:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QH91jk045941 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:09:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr12.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.31]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IWQ00957VMVE0K7@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:08:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.240.3.34] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.57.142]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:08:55 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:08:55 -0500 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:09:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4426CACF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Where are you located?? I have a copy of the book and might be willing to loan it out. Katheryne central-eastern NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Becky > I have ordered that book but it has not arrived yet. YET!!! I'm > still waiting and waiting. I wish it would get here so I can stay > working on the > costume. I've heard it was a good book and ordered it. If I'm > going to be creating costumes from this era, I' need all the documentation I > can get. I have both Arnold books but nothing on these sleeves. I borrowed > the QE1Unlocked. It was a great book for the details but nothing on > these sleeves. I'm researching it as best I can. > Thanks for all the help form the list members. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Abel, Cynthia" > > Try finding a copy of Jean Hunnisett's "Period Costume for Stage and > > Screen-1500-1800" Inside is not only a scale pattern of the > > oversleeve(cut on the bias), but two variations of the > undersleeve as well. The so-called "Jane Grey" sleeve, based on a portrait of Jane > > Grey, recently reidentified as Queen Catheryn Parr, is just about > > identical to the "Princess Elizabeth" portrait. > > Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 26 18:46:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2QNk88f028025 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:46:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2QNkJLt023457; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:46:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QNjhgH098376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:45:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QNjW14002526; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:45:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail9.tpgi.com.au (mail9.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2QNjRjB002475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:45:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-212-147-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.212.147]) by mail9.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2QNjPVq004558 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:45:26 +1100 Message-ID: <004801c6512f$7aada170$93d4f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:46:17 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Neat corset lacing assistant X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:46:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442727CB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I was looking at this website to find out the price of custom made corsets, as I'm getting tired of the number of times I've needed to alter the corset pattern I'm currently working on (the 1844 corset in Corsets and Crinolines, the bust is way too big & I'm on my third round of alterations to reduce it) I can't afford to buy a corset, but I came across this nifty little tool for preventing the corset laces from slipping when you're lacing it up http://romantasyweb.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=R&Product_Code=lst&Category_Code=HA They are selling it but it's really simple and could easily be reproduced at home even if you don't have much in the way of tools. All you'd really need is 2 pieces of dowel with holes drilled for the cords and the hook. If you know somebody who does woodwork you could probably make this out of their scraps. This wouldn't work as well for pre 19th century corsets as they have a lace that runs from the top and ends at the waist so you don't have a loop, but it would certainly save some time (I knot the end of my laces to avoid slipping while I'm tightening but having the tension constantly held would save the time of making the knot and then undoing it to re-knot it at the new tension) Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 26 23:13:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R4Dxxb006121 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:13:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R4E96J018165; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:14:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R4DgC9028367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:13:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R4DXVj082209; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:13:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R0D8AQ019770 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:13:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sjpaterson@tru.eastlink.ca) Received: from ip02.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.10]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IWR00KYVF9K6HF0@mta01.eastlink.ca> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:12:56 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-137-68-3.eastlink.ca (HELO THIRDFLOOR) ([24.137.68.3]) by ip02.eastlink.ca with SMTP; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:13:03 -0400 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:12:57 -0400 From: SPaterson To: Historical Costume Message-id: <001401c65133$33a2b140$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAA+k= References: <004801c6512f$7aada170$93d4f5dc@user4712b7d135> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:14:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44276691.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Have you tried using your own basic block (sloper)as the basis for the corset and drawing in the corset lines as applicable - (yes, there is more to this process than just drawing in the lines, there is dart manipulation and taking off the required amounts to change the shape..etc) I can imagine you are frustrated trying to take a corset for an unknown shape & size and alter it for your own...I know I wouldn't be bothered... I'd rather manipulate my own shape to achieve the correct corset. Just a suggestion Sarah Paterson ----- Original Message ----- >I was looking at this website to find out the price of custom made corsets, >as I'm getting tired of the number of times I've needed to alter the corset >pattern I'm currently working on (the 1844 corset in Corsets and >Crinolines, the bust is way too big & I'm on my third round of alterations >to reduce it) I can't afford to buy a corset, > Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 26 23:36:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R4a7uw006762 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:36:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R4aIJU029629; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:36:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R4a31I031544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:36:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R4a2FI097583; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:36:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav11.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R4ZxIf097547 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:36:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:35:58 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.124.168 by BAY101-DAV11.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:35:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.124.168] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:35:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 04:35:58.0693 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1C60950:01C65157] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:36:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44276BC2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I live near Harrisburg, in Enola. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth sleeves > Where are you located?? > > I have a copy of the book and might be willing to loan it out. > > Katheryne > central-eastern NJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Becky > >> I have ordered that book but it has not arrived yet. YET!!! I'm >> still waiting and waiting. I wish it would get here so I can stay >> working on the >> costume. I've heard it was a good book and ordered it. If I'm >> going to be creating costumes from this era, I' need all the >> documentation I >> can get. I have both Arnold books but nothing on these sleeves. I >> borrowed >> the QE1Unlocked. It was a great book for the details but nothing on >> these sleeves. I'm researching it as best I can. >> Thanks for all the help form the list members. > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Abel, Cynthia" >> > Try finding a copy of Jean Hunnisett's "Period Costume for Stage and >> > Screen-1500-1800" Inside is not only a scale pattern of the >> > oversleeve(cut on the bias), but two variations of the >> undersleeve as well. The so-called "Jane Grey" sleeve, based on a >> portrait of Jane >> > Grey, recently reidentified as Queen Catheryn Parr, is just about >> > identical to the "Princess Elizabeth" portrait. >> > Cindy Abel > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Mar 26 23:39:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R4dDbM006833 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:39:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R4dNGF031242; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:39:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R4ctBo031844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:38:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R4ctO2099334; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:38:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav13.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R4cogs099245 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:38:44 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.124.168 by BAY101-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:38:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.124.168] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004801c6512f$7aada170$93d4f5dc@user4712b7d135> <001401c65133$33a2b140$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:38:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 04:38:44.0567 (UTC) FILETIME=[54A46670:01C65158] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:39:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44276C7B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO New term for me... what's a sloper? ----- Original Message ----- From: "SPaterson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:12 PM Subject: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion > Have you tried using your own basic block (sloper)as the basis for the > corset and drawing in the corset lines as applicable - (yes, there is more > to this process than just drawing in the lines, there is dart manipulation > and taking off the required amounts to change the shape..etc) I can > imagine you are frustrated trying to take a corset for an unknown shape & > size and alter it for your own...I know I wouldn't be bothered... I'd > rather manipulate my own shape to achieve the correct corset. > > Just a suggestion > > Sarah Paterson > ----- Original Message ----- > >>I was looking at this website to find out the price of custom made >>corsets, as I'm getting tired of the number of times I've needed to alter >>the corset pattern I'm currently working on (the 1844 corset in Corsets >>and Crinolines, the bust is way too big & I'm on my third round of >>alterations to reduce it) I can't afford to buy a corset, > Elizabeth >> _______________________________________________ >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 00:58:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R5wh1j009401 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:58:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R5wsSa009491; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:58:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R5wVW7040696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:58:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R5wPgP048963; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:58:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R5wMkf048937 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:58:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=PennyCOMPAQ) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1FNkk83mzs-0006wN; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:58:22 -0500 Message-ID: <012301c65163$6650a090$6400a8c0@PennyCOMPAQ> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:57:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Florida X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:58:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44277F1E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2R5wh1j009401 Status: RO Wednesday, I am heading to Florida for two weeks. We will be in the Bradenton/Sarasota area, south of the Tampa Bay. My youngest sister is getting married. This will also be a working vacation for me. I am hoping to do some research about circus costumes at the Ringling Museum. My Dad was in the Barnum & Bailey/Ringling Bros. Circus from the 1920s-early 1940s. My oldest brother has a album of circus photos from the 1940s. He is hoping to bring them with him to Florida. If he does, he said I could scan them. My oldest sister and brother, and their parents, traveled with the circus when they were little. We are also hoping to go to Ft. Lauderdale to see the King Tut exhibit. Are there any other costume exhibits that I should see in this part of Florida? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 01:55:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R6toEg011440 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:55:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2R6u0as009262; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:56:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R6tlmJ046763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:55:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R6ti1l085213; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:55:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2R6tfJD085179 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:55:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rwfranz@hotpop.com) Received: from titan (titan.cvip.net [129.8.220.33]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC8C5D892 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (cvip-dsl-206-90.cvip.net [129.8.206.90]) by titan.cvip.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.04 (built Feb 8 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IWR007IAXWPH4@titan.cvip.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:55:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:55:36 +0000 From: rwfranz Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <44278C68.5020605@hotpop.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051226) References: <004801c6512f$7aada170$93d4f5dc@user4712b7d135> <001401c65133$33a2b140$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:56:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44278C80.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO A sloper is the basic pattern from which other patterns are designed. (http://www.sew-whats-new.com/sewinglessons/sloper.shtml) It's also sometimes called the basic body block. A discussion of them can be found here - http://www.taunton.com/threads/pages/t00036.asp . Slopers of various sorts can be used for a wide variety of clothing types. Certain corset patterns can be made using the standard two-dart sloper, which is probably why it was suggested. Darts would have to be split and pivoted, but that's not terribly difficult. Some of the pattern companies make patterns for the "basic sloper", although they may not call them that. Those patterns typically include instructions for fitting the sloper properly. There's a lot of fitting and re-fitting involved. If you've got a sewing group anywhere near you, Coni Almaden-Crawford gives lectures on how to make and use slopers; her schedule is posted here: http://www.fashionpatterns.com/schedule.html Roger Becky wrote: > New term for me... what's a sloper? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "SPaterson" > > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:12 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion > > >> Have you tried using your own basic block (sloper)as the basis for >> the corset and drawing in the corset lines as applicable - (yes, >> there is more to this process than just drawing in the lines, there >> is dart manipulation and taking off the required amounts to change >> the shape..etc) I can imagine you are frustrated trying to take a >> corset for an unknown shape & size and alter it for your own...I know >> I wouldn't be bothered... I'd rather manipulate my own shape to >> achieve the correct corset. >> >> Just a suggestion >> >> Sarah Paterson >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> I was looking at this website to find out the price of custom made >>> corsets, as I'm getting tired of the number of times I've needed to >>> alter the corset pattern I'm currently working on (the 1844 corset >>> in Corsets and Crinolines, the bust is way too big & I'm on my third >>> round of alterations to reduce it) I can't afford to buy a corset, > >>> Elizabeth >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 09:20:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2REKFAa010729 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:20:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2REKPLa011333; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:20:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REJttn053630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:19:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REJok2000464; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:19:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REJkte000311 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:19:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:19:38 -0800 Message-ID: <4427F489.9020408@msn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:19:53 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 14:19:38.0627 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B47E530:01C651A9] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Red Dutch coat Was: Dutch 1660s fur jacket X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:20:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4427F4AA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I like the furry one, but also love the red (wool?) one? Reminds me, from the front, of Breughel type jackets, except with a placket. Do you have a picture of it without the 'kerchief? (also, if you could point me to a painting?) Thanks, Sg Glad to see you "back"! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 09:24:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2REObLd010965 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:24:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2REOmTv017208; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:24:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REOQLA054173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REOPLU003997; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REOLoZ003893 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:24:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:24:16 -0800 Message-ID: <4427F59F.9080901@msn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:24:31 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] smell of spiral steel boning References: <1143116690.4422939264f6c@webmail.netspace.net.au> In-Reply-To: <1143116690.4422939264f6c@webmail.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 14:24:16.0695 (UTC) FILETIME=[2105B470:01C651AA] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:24:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4427F5B0.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I agree, I keep mine in a round tin. It must have enough airflow that I do not get this smell. I have recently been amazed at what a good airing will do for costumes. I have been working in a very smoky environment, and a few days airing has pretty much done the trick...more tenacious smells seem to be rid easily of with some "febreeze." stilskin@netspace.net.au wrote: >Belive it or not, metal has a smell. >Providing your supplier has not done something you are not aware of, this is >normal. > >Give it a rub with a soft cloth then let it air, > > >-C. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 09:27:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RERUVH011107 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:27:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RERfjS019826; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:27:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REROIk054589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:27:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RERNoF006363; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:27:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RERK0c006264 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:27:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:27:15 -0800 Message-ID: <4427F652.9000300@msn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:27:30 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Pregnant Elizabethan References: <20060324182449.3i2s9r59kqyoscck@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20060324182449.3i2s9r59kqyoscck@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 14:27:15.0400 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B89EC80:01C651AA] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:27:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4427F65D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Very nice! Thank you. I'd never seen that one! Susan B. Farmer wrote: >Found another one > >http://www.weissgallery.com/detail.asp?id=26&category=current > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 09:36:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2REaVln012156 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:36:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2REagqx028133; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:36:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REaNtm055916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REaMZ1013310; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:36:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2REaIU3013242 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:36:13 -0800 Message-ID: <4427F86B.20105@msn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:36:27 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion References: <004801c6512f$7aada170$93d4f5dc@user4712b7d135> <001401c65133$33a2b140$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> <44278C68.5020605@hotpop.com> In-Reply-To: <44278C68.5020605@hotpop.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 14:36:13.0252 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC1FA040:01C651AB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:36:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4427F87A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'd stay away from anything modern for any period corset. You just won't get the shape you want. As a starting place, look at Drea's well used corset generator. http://costume.dm.net/custompat/ If you are new to this style, look carefully at the shapes in paintings for comparisons to later styles. Think "inverted cone." Flat front, not a curve in sight! Compare this to (some of) the more rounded front of the German silhouette at the same time. If you have Patterns Of Fashion, look at the Pfalzgrafin corset for comparison. Her corset was not boned across the breasts. Makes a huge difference! In the end a "sloper" also called a toile is exactly what you need, just a different starting point! In the case of a corset toile, you need something a little heavier than calico/muslin to work with. Sg rwfranz wrote: > A sloper is the basic pattern from which other patterns are designed. > (http://www.sew-whats-new.com/sewinglessons/sloper.shtml) It's also > sometimes called the basic body block. > > A _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 10:06:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RF6XOk014051 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:06:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RF6hGO027253; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:06:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RF6C7Z060530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:06:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RF67ap037626; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:06:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RF62Th037491 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:06:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wendirae@bellsouth.net) Received: from ibm68aec.bellsouth.net ([192.168.16.253]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060327150552.XAFS8742.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm68aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:05:52 -0500 Received: from mail.bellsouth.net ([192.168.16.253]) by ibm68aec.bellsouth.net with SMTP id <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:05:51 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.16.1 (webedge20-101-1106-101-20040924) X-Originating-IP: [66.255.42.194] From: To: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:05:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Subject: [h-cost] Regency Help! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:06:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4427FF84.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello! I am not really familiar with the Regency era; however I really liked the dress that Jayne (Rosamund Pike) wore in the opening scene of the latest version of Pride & Prejudice (with Keira Knightly) – she wears the same style dress a different points throughout the movie, one in pink and the other in blue. I have looked at the patterns sites that carry Regency patterns (Sense & Sensibility, etc.) but have been unable to locate anything like this. There is a dress with an overcoat (?) that has an under-the-bust piece to connect either side of the overcoat. While I have not seen the movie Sense & Sensibility with Kate Winslet as Marianne Dashwood, I have seen screen shots and she is wearing a similar style outfit, a peach & white gown on a picnic. http://www.geocities.com/mm_regency1/ss_mpwd.html Does anyone know what the overcoat is called and what type of dress the base dress is? Thanks! Wendi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 10:27:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFRG9N015219 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:27:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RFRRji014322; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:27:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFR0Wc063383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:27:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFQovC055849; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:26:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFQkrG055682 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:26:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:26:41 -0800 Message-ID: <44280440.2040005@msn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:26:56 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sourcing bizarre fabric.. References: <01e001c64f83$a3fa2e70$1a01a8c0@tereckoffice.local> In-Reply-To: <01e001c64f83$a3fa2e70$1a01a8c0@tereckoffice.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 15:26:41.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[D91999C0:01C651B2] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:27:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428045F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Katherine, have you tried any of the "fabric finder", or fabric sourcing sites? I have had particular luck with this group http://www.fabrics.net/swatch/ , but also just happened to google on this site-I hadn't asked for green leaves, but look what came up! http://www.prqc.com/fabric_finder.htm Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 10:29:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFTo7j015292 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:29:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RFTwTF016677; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:30:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFTLO4063638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:29:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFTLMI058027; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:29:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2RFTHY7057865 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:29:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 15869 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2006 15:29:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2006 15:29:11 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060327162327.01e10470@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:29:13 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! In-Reply-To: <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bells outh.net> References: <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2RFTHY7057865 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:30:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442804F6.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 16:05 27/03/2006, you wrote: >Hello! >I am not really familiar with the Regency era; >however I really liked the dress that Jayne >(Rosamund Pike) wore in the opening scene of the >latest version of Pride & Prejudice (with Keira >Knightly) ­ she wears the same style dress a >different points throughout the movie, one in >pink and the other in blue. I have looked at the >patterns sites that carry Regency patterns >(Sense & Sensibility, etc.) but have been unable >to locate anything like this. There is a dress >with an overcoat (?) that has an under-the-bust >piece to connect either side of the overcoat. >While I have not seen the movie Sense & >Sensibility with Kate Winslet as Marianne >Dashwood, I have seen screen shots and she is >wearing a similar style outfit, a peach & white gown on a picnic. >http://www.geocities.com/mm_regency1/ss_mpwd.html > >Does anyone know what the overcoat is called and >what type of dress the base dress is? Patterns for the "overcoat" can be found in both "Cut of Women's Clothes" by Norah Waugh, and "Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860" by Janet Arnold. It is probable that you will find patterns for the dress in one of those books too, or "Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1800-1090" by Jean Hunnisett, as these were the principal books of patterns that the British costume houses used at the time this version was being made. The sheer dress is possibly being worn over a bodiced petticoat. I have not seen the new P and P so cannot comment on that particular style. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 10:31:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFVI06015329 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:31:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RFVTot004412; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:31:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFUl2W063783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:30:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFUjOo059349; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:30:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFUcW5059183 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:30:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:30:33 -0800 Message-ID: <44280528.6060000@msn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:30:48 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan doublets, hooks and eyes at waist References: <283.7c4e5c2.31516c91@aol.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 15:30:33.0324 (UTC) FILETIME=[634722C0:01C651B3] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:31:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44280551.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Wish I could remember where I read this, but there was a "discourse" by someone (Samuel Pepy's perhaps?) on how, the tailors were in some kind of conspiracy (tongue in cheek) of switching from points to hook and eyes which didn't free men up from having to have some one dress them. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 10:43:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFhrHX016020 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:43:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RFi4jX029792; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:44:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFhkxb065704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFhgF1070822; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:43:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFhbgm070709 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5549.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.73]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 52B64FAC050 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:43:33 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c651b5$3ec90650$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20060327162327.01e10470@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:43:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:44:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44280844.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Suzi, The pattern for this gown is in Norah Waughs Cut of Womens Clothes diagram XXXIV Open Gown c. 1795. I made it many years ago from a mix of silk and wool in a petrol blue trimmed with grey ribbons. Inside the gown i had made a chemise de la reinne, or you could also use a petticoat and a large fichu. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! > At 16:05 27/03/2006, you wrote: >>Hello! >>I am not really familiar with the Regency era; however I really liked the >>dress that Jayne (Rosamund Pike) wore in the opening scene of the latest >>version of Pride & Prejudice (with Keira Knightly) ­ she wears the same >>style dress a different points throughout the movie, one in pink and the >>other in blue. I have looked at the patterns sites that carry Regency >>patterns (Sense & Sensibility, etc.) but have been unable to locate >>anything like this. There is a dress with an overcoat (?) that has an >>under-the-bust piece to connect either side of the overcoat. While I have >>not seen the movie Sense & Sensibility with Kate Winslet as Marianne >>Dashwood, I have seen screen shots and she is wearing a similar style >>outfit, a peach & white gown on a picnic. >>http://www.geocities.com/mm_regency1/ss_mpwd.html >> >>Does anyone know what the overcoat is called and what type of dress the >>base dress is? > > > Patterns for the "overcoat" can be found in both "Cut of Women's Clothes" > by Norah Waugh, and "Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860" by Janet Arnold. It is > probable that you will find patterns for the dress in one of those books > too, or "Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1800-1090" by Jean Hunnisett, > as these were the principal books of patterns that the British costume > houses used at the time this version was being made. The sheer dress is > possibly being worn over a bodiced petticoat. > > I have not seen the new P and P so cannot comment on that particular > style. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 11:05:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RG5woS017266 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:05:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RG685H018030; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:06:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RG5nDD068878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:05:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RG5iJE091185; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:05:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pony.uvm.edu (pony.uvm.edu [132.198.101.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RG5VZb091008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:05:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.104.191] (ip104191.uvm.edu [132.198.104.191]) (authenticated bits=0) by pony.uvm.edu (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2RG5R12016669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:05:31 -0500 Message-ID: <44280D47.4000305@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:05:27 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! References: <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> In-Reply-To: <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:06:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44280D70.00B by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO wendirae@bellsouth.net wrote: > I am not really familiar with the Regency era; however I really liked the dress that Jayne (Rosamund Pike) wore in the opening scene of the latest version of Pride & Prejudice (with Keira Knightly) – she wears the same style dress a different points throughout the movie, one in pink and the other in blue. I have looked at the patterns sites that carry Regency patterns (Sense & Sensibility, etc.) but have been unable to locate anything like this. There is a dress with an overcoat (?) that has an under-the-bust piece to connect either side of the overcoat. While I have not seen the movie Sense & Sensibility with Kate Winslet as Marianne Dashwood, I have seen screen shots and she is wearing a similar style outfit, a peach & white gown on a picnic. > http://www.geocities.com/mm_regency1/ss_mpwd.html > > Does anyone know what the overcoat is called and what type of dress the base dress is? > Isn't this a marvelous style? The Sense and Sensibility versions are a bit toned down in fullness, but it was still nice that they included this style. I've seen it most often called a robe or open robe. It's a brief transition style from the late 18th century robe a l'anglaise where the lower part of the bodice is cut away. This gown, from the Victoria and Albert Museum, shows the transition. You can see the evolution: start with the earlier 18th waistline, then move the waist up and make the gown even more open at front, continue until waistline is very high, replace rich silk petticoat with full muslin underdress/chemise dress, and voila! http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20030207/high/1088-005.jpg Here are several variations, all from the late 1790s: Gold Stripe silk robe from Met Museum of Art (image: Columbia) http://www.columbia.edu/itc/barnard/theater/kirkland/3136/Early_19th_Century_Gallery/pages/1795.5.htm and another view: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/dreh/ho_C.I.37.46.1.htm Open robe, brown silk, Manchester City Gallery http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/catalogue/Display.php?irn=13418&QueryPage=/costume/catalogue/index.php Silk dress (rear view) Los Angeles City Museum http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe?request=record&id=21549&type=101 and an Italian version in glazed linen, also from LACMA: http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe?request=record&id=40930&type=101 First image at: http://exposition2005.monsite.wanadoo.fr/page3.html Long sleeved day dress version: http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20030207/high/1087-012.jpg And another from MMOA: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/eudr/hob_1998.222.1.htm And this, worn as a wedding dress in the U.S., shows the pleating in the back: http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?recview=true&id=49614&coll_keywords=wedding%20dress&coll_package=0&coll_start=1 And a couple of fashion plates (two of them may be redrawings) http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-plates/1790s-gown-gloves.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-plates/1795-threegowns-columbia.jpg http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/regency/evening-plates/1797-muslin-glove.jpg Janet Arnold shows a similar gown in her Patterns of Fashion from this period. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 11:46:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RGkPqW019772 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:46:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RGka9S024180; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:46:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RGk1Wb077075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:46:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RGjpkY030635; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:45:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RGjmwH030463 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:45:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.28c.844ba80 (57365) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:45:36 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <28c.844ba80.315970b0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:45:36 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:46:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442816EC.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/27/2006 11:06:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, hope.greenberg@uvm.edu writes: Here are several variations, all from the late 1790s: **************************** Which makes me wonder if it was considered woefully "old fashion" by...oh...say 1806. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 12:58:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RHwgWX023161 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:58:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RHwr7T030575; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:58:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RHwRJl087218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:58:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RHwMbM003897; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RHwHMZ003697 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:58:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.36b.7d9665 (57317) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:58:09 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <36b.7d9665.315981b1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:58:09 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:58:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442827DD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/27/2006 10:44:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: The pattern for this gown is in Norah Waughs Cut of Womens Clothes diagram XXXIV Open Gown c. 1795. Yes, and please note that, strictly speaking, this is not Regency period. We already discussed on this list that, as Jane Austen first wrote the book in the 1790s (although it was published later), evidently the designer opted to costume it in this period. While technically, the English Regency was 1811-1820, I think most of us who interpret this period think of the styles being fairly similar from about 1800 on. The 1790s was more a transition period from 18th century to the full-blown Neo-classical styes. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 13:31:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIVn2b024266 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:31:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RIVxZR000372; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:32:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIVVb8092039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:31:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIVSRj037934; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:31:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIVOn2037859 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:31:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5549.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.73]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B96DA5000E for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:31:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:31:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:32:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44282F9F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hey, What do you say, a 15 inch waist: http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 I dont like it, its two bizarre. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 13:46:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIk92F024927 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:46:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RIkKLP016550; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:46:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIk49o094641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:46:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIk11h052793; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:46:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIjvgb052639 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:45:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kristinolivia@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t15so1065493wxc for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:45:45 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=pWAHL5/WB95zcNfBU/57rhqkWLIlKu98RglCWNJH0fpJ0UJZaLCLm+KJzo943brsQ7VWKWmHBA1bAbBv7nXxTZ6O1Wgk8GnNuQDcj2Bn1u4Fowex96T7VwYDtjev7Y+KOdYEvy6PYlOdsquzSwctDZgFAWJcgkp6QY94lezX/ys= Received: by 10.70.30.12 with SMTP id d12mr53275wxd; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.9.2 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:45:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <33a78bfb0603271045u1014b277naefb3845416cc329@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:45:41 -0500 From: Kristin To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing In-Reply-To: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:46:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442832FC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2RIk92F024927 Status: RO I've seen that before when looking up information on corsets. It's definitely along the lines of fetish. I have to agree with you that it is too bizarre. I don't like it either, as it's too out of proportion. Kristin On 3/27/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > Hey, > What do you say, a 15 inch waist: > http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 > I dont like it, its two bizarre. > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 13:55:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RItQUC025242 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:55:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RItUAj028412; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:55:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RItBBk096509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:55:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIt8Vn061994; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:55:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2RIt0ZU061758 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:55:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 30686 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2006 18:54:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2006 18:54:54 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060327194005.01df1490@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:50:14 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing In-Reply-To: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:55:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44283529.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 19:31 27/03/2006, you wrote: >Hey, >What do you say, a 15 inch waist: >http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 >I dont like it, its two bizarre. > >Bjarne That is gross - she looks as though she's snap in half if you grabbed her by the waist! And the roll of fat at the top of the corset is not pretty either. I know I am one who shouldn't comment on other people's figure failings, but the corset is way too tight at the top, as well as everywhere else in my opinion. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 13:57:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIvv9X025317 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:57:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RIw8j8031353; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:58:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIvvWi096835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:57:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIvuji064489; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:57:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RIvqQf064318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:57:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2RIvgWW038736 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:57:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:57:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <61003.65.117.156.5.1143485862.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <33a78bfb0603271045u1014b277naefb3845416cc329@mail.gmail.com> References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <33a78bfb0603271045u1014b277naefb3845416cc329@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:57:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:58:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442835C0.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I concurr, way too bizarre. I looked into corseting but found rather quickly that there are no groups out there for those just wanting to know how to do it properly without all the fetish and what not connected to it. I just wanted the facts and got yelled at when I opposed one view. Way too strange for my tastes. Chiara On Mon, March 27, 2006 12:45 pm, Kristin said: > I've seen that before when looking up information on corsets. It's > definitely along the lines of fetish. I have to agree with you that > it is > too bizarre. I don't like it either, as it's too out of proportion. > > Kristin > > > On 3/27/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> >> Hey, >> What do you say, a 15 inch waist: >> http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 >> I dont like it, its two bizarre. >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 14:05:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJ5IWV025594 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:05:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RJ5TbX006701; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:05:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJ4lL4097863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:04:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJ4hjj071128; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:04:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJ4dMW071046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:04:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:16940 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FNx1A-0005uq-LH for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:04:45 -0600 Message-ID: <004e01c651d1$4c200760$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><33a78bfb0603271045u1014b277naefb3845416cc329@mail.gmail.com> <61003.65.117.156.5.1143485862.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:04:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:05:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44283779.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" >I concurr, way too bizarre. I looked into corseting but found rather > quickly that there are no groups out there for those just wanting to > know how to do it properly without all the fetish and what not > connected to it. Yes, there is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historical_Corsets/ I'm the list owner, and there's no fetish stuff allowed! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 14:31:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJVMCq026605 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:31:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RJVXKt003187; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:31:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJVKVp001360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJVIlB096130; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp02.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJVE7H095973 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:31:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP02.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:31:09 -0800 Message-ID: <44283D8C.5020101@msn.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:31:24 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><33a78bfb0603271045u1014b277naefb3845416cc329@mail.gmail.com> <61003.65.117.156.5.1143485862.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <004e01c651d1$4c200760$e100a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <004e01c651d1$4c200760$e100a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 19:31:09.0753 (UTC) FILETIME=[000F6290:01C651D5] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:31:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44283D95.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dang! How'd I miss this?! I'll be signing up. I can only imagine what you all a have been talking about since 1991! Sg E House wrote: > > Yes, there is: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historical_Corsets/ > I'm the list owner, and there's no fetish stuff allowed! > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 14:36:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJaKJT027148 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:36:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RJaVg8008465; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:36:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJaGht001857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:36:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJaEK4000654; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:36:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJa7nD000457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2RJa2Tm041619 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:36:02 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:36:02 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <16115.65.117.156.5.1143488162.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <004e01c651d1$4c200760$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><33a78bfb0603271045u1014b277naefb3845416cc329@mail.gmail.com> <61003.65.117.156.5.1143485862.squirrel@webmail.io.com> <004e01c651d1$4c200760$e100a8c0@compaqub> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:36:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=failed version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:36:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44283EBF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Very cool! I will check it out when I get home tonight. :) Chiara On Mon, March 27, 2006 1:04 pm, E House said: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" > >>I concurr, way too bizarre. I looked into corseting but found >> rather >> quickly that there are no groups out there for those just wanting >> to >> know how to do it properly without all the fetish and what not >> connected to it. > > Yes, there is: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historical_Corsets/ > I'm the list owner, and there's no fetish stuff allowed! > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 15:41:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKf0ZH029530 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:41:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RKfBlM009691; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:41:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKeecV011611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:40:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKea59061110; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:40:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f8.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKeWtL061010 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:40:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:40:31 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:40:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [83.105.84.119] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <4427F489.9020408@msn.com> From: "Nicole Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] The Red Dutch coat Was: Dutch 1660s fur jacket Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:40:28 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 20:40:31.0152 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0727B00:01C651DE] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:41:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44284DE7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Uhm, SG, that isn't a coat nor jacket, is the reproduction (made by Harriet Waterhouse) of the 1660s pink silk stays with sleeves in the V&A. :-D Nicole (steeped in Tudor and kind of lost) -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >From: WickedFrau >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: [h-cost] The Red Dutch coat Was: Dutch 1660s fur jacket >Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:19:53 -0700 > >I like the furry one, but also love the red (wool?) one? Reminds me, from >the front, of Breughel type jackets, except with a placket. Do you have a >picture of it without the 'kerchief? (also, if you could point me to a >painting?) > >Thanks, > >Sg > >Glad to see you "back"! >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 15:49:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKnY7m029984 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:49:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RKnjDF018242; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:49:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKnSeq013136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:49:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKnQqo070083; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:49:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKnMeE069993 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so1562120nzk for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:49:19 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=kgp5I8SDyivahf2fJSn/A+auxyFWZ9o13mfbUtxMO6KmKZU0YAwxhCe3MZGDqijN3FcuQYMTSgu7y82kzIA2kIW16Ft+23EoQUdxAm2u2yh/+qq4d9NHJ1Qt5p9qZSmW5E0J6dOGLppxT7gsCuTm5K4VyHmZoaU5vIzhrySSdzc= Received: by 10.36.247.54 with SMTP id u54mr5682616nzh; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.13.26 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:49:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070603271249o7ba30473i5725eb6ce9349f1b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:49:19 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing In-Reply-To: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2RKnMeE069993 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:49:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44284FE9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I saw her in person at a dance once, it was grotesque. Like a train wreck, you looked but had to turn away but had to look again to make sure you didn't imagine it. She looked as if she would break in two. Her face did not look like one of a happy or healthy person. Katy On 3/27/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hey, > What do you say, a 15 inch waist: > http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 > I dont like it, its two bizarre. > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 15:55:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKtUOS030283 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:55:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RKtfFD024519; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:55:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKtSNp014061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:55:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RKtPeM075455; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:55:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2RKtJm8075311 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 43851 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2006 20:55:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2006 20:55:14 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060327214946.01df2ce0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:51:28 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion In-Reply-To: References: <004801c6512f$7aada170$93d4f5dc@user4712b7d135> <001401c65133$33a2b140$04000100@THIRDFLOOR> <44278C68.5020605@hotpop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:55:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428514D.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >I'd stay away from anything modern for any period corset. You just >won't get the shape you want. As a starting place, look at Drea's >well used corset generator. >http://costume.dm.net/custompat/ >If you are new to this style, look carefully at the shapes in >paintings for comparisons to later styles. >Think "inverted cone." Flat front, not a curve in sight! Compare >this to (some of) the more rounded front of the German silhouette >at the same time. If you have Patterns Of Fashion, look at the >Pfalzgrafin corset for comparison. Her corset was not boned across >the breasts. >Makes a huge difference! > >In the end a "sloper" also called a toile is exactly what you need, >just a different starting point! In the case of a corset toile, you >need something a little heavier than calico/muslin to work with. > >Sg > >rwfranz wrote: > >>A sloper is the basic pattern from which other patterns are >>designed. (http://www.sew-whats-new.com/sewinglessons/sloper.shtml) >>It's also sometimes called the basic body block. I must say I tried Drea's corset generator on myself, being an English 24, American 26, and I could not get it to look anything like a corset. And I make corsets for my living! Perhaps you will have more luck - I hope so. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 16:11:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLBxBW031095 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:11:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RLC8CB010792; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:12:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLBgLo016681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:11:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLBckx091122; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:11:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav20.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.92]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLBUCD090970 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:11:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:11:28 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.50.207 by BAY106-DAV20.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:11:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.50.207] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> <44280D47.4000305@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:11:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:11:23 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2006 21:11:28.0692 (UTC) FILETIME=[03A09740:01C651E3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:12:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44285528.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2RLBxBW031095 Status: RO and an Italian version in glazed linen, also from LACMA: http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe?request=record&id=40930&type=101 Regarding our discussion a couple weeks ago about a "greatcoat" dress, the museum curators have labeled this one a "greatcoat dress". Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 16:38:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLcjO2032494 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:38:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RLcu0h005045; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:38:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLbPMa021133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:37:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLbM5c016579; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:37:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLbGpf016400 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:37:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.157.6145f3cf (4568) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:37:05 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <157.6145f3cf.3159b501@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:37:05 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:38:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44285B70.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/27/2006 4:12:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bear_janet@msn.com writes: and an Italian version in glazed linen I believe that is INDIAN fabric, made up in England. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 16:47:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLl0Sn000512 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:47:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RLlAxg012806; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:47:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLj87r022558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:45:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLj4aD024288; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:45:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLj0vO024038 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:45:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0DDCA6496 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:44:49 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <44285CF7.3040404@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:45:27 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:47:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44285D5F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hey, > What do you say, a 15 inch waist: > http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 > I dont like it, its two bizarre. > I don't think I'm getting the same link as everyone else. I'm looking at Danish (?) news clips... news, sports, movie reviews, baby kangaroos at the zoo... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 16:49:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLnod9000655 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:49:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RLnxF3015498; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:50:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLnRW6023431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:49:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLnQip028594; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:49:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RLnLrT028512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:49:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:28944 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FNzaR-0006ct-U1 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:49:20 -0600 Message-ID: <009401c651e8$49602ca0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:49:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: other costuming groups X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:50:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44285E07.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2RLnod9000655 Status: RO Well, since we've had a ton of new members on the historical corsets group from this list in just the past few hours, I thought I'd quickly mention three of my other groups that might be of interest to the list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Real_Regency/ Regency fashions, lifestyle, reenactment get-togethers--reasonably active http://groups.yahoo.com/group/15thCenturyEurope/ Anything whatsoever related to the 15th century--needs new life http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PreRaphaeliteGarb/ For when you need a break from authenticity--needs new life -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 17:59:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RMxeTK004056 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:59:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RMxoqw010425; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:59:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RMx40U033189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:59:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RMx0L7094524; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:59:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RMwtkn094433 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 15:58:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247d8.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.216]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D9BF3262835 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:58:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002b01c651f2$10d29710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060327150551.LKTI17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net><44280D47.4000305@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:59:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:59:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44286E66.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Janet, Thanks for that, its very interresting that she calls this a greatcoat, wished i could ask her why? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help! and an Italian version in glazed linen, also from LACMA: http://collectionsonline.lacma.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe?request=record&id=40930&type=101 Regarding our discussion a couple weeks ago about a "greatcoat" dress, the museum curators have labeled this one a "greatcoat dress". Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 18:23:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RNNgIQ005125 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:23:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2RNNrD9030657; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:23:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RNNbf6036725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:23:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RNNaAW017922; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:23:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2RNNVwi017759 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:23:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 74273 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Mar 2006 23:23:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=O96/EG4h3FaDqtrAAP2iGwpWT//4DTlKGhOTughgRzaGgg3cNaRIRvCqgnG2lLOpDA0t08S5Iod2naZ9j5XEGHmrc9awxCqICeBX3X96elZqwLuNJognG69ku0klE4EeSFaizMHgLYNPzVPsL9dDGe+oWg5pRqMVym+zQh2T7YI= ; Message-ID: <20060327232325.74271.qmail@web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:23:25 BST Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:23:25 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [h-cost] re: talk about tight lacing - historic corset info X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:23:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44287409.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello Chiara >I looked into corseting but found rather quickly >that there are no groups out there for those just >wanting to know how to do it properly without all >the fetish and what not connected to it. Chiara may I suggest you check out the yahoo 'historic corset' group? There are a few familiar 'faces' from this and other lists and it is specifically aimed at those of us only interested in the historic side of things. I know /exactly/ what you mean about other groups... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historical_Corsets/?yguid=176556519 HTH Katherine (who's guilty of not posting to the list often enough... maybe tomorrow!) "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 19:47:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S0laAe009458 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:47:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S0lhlG029246; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:47:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S0knIn048319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:46:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S0kbsp090131; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:46:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail6.tpgi.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S0kWZc090064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-222-248-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.248]) by mail6.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2S0kTvE006289 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:46:31 +1100 Message-ID: <00d101c65201$2d86ed20$f8def5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:47:21 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Subject: [h-cost] new McCall's bonnet pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:47:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442887AF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO while I was looking for high waisted bodices with darts, (as I'm running a class on removing the darts from commercial patterns for early 16th century Italian clothing) I found this new pattern http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M5129.htm?tab=costumes&page=1 for couple of variations on the theme of mid 19th century bonnets. To me it looks like the top row styles with the full brim could work well for late 1840s to early 1850s but their cut away style looks all wrong, I think it's because it's just too big, as when they trimmed the brim back so it didn't act like blinkers on a horse the bonnet became much smaller and closer to the face, but instead of modifying the overall line of the bonnet McCall's has tried to make one pattern do double duty. Does anybody else have opinions on weather this could be adapted to a mid to late 1850s bonnet? As nobody seems to sell that style (even if I could afford a readymade bonnet) all I see on the web is 1860s spoon bonnets for the ACW crowd. Elizabeth (who should be concentrating on SCA period clothing for an upcoming event over the Easter weekend rather than looking at 19th century stuff) -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 19:51:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S0pLws009634 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:51:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S0pWWo032511; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:51:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S0pJ6T048849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S0pJIL093740; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net (smtp4.suscom.net [64.78.119.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S0pEpn093525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E3F150072 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:51:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 29962-01-100 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:50:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from Stuckis (ip21.77.78.64.suscom.net [64.78.77.21]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1EB1715005F for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:50:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009e01c65201$f1c43350$154d4e40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:52:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:51:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44288894.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 1:31 PM Subject: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing > Hey, > What do you say, a 15 inch waist: > http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 > I dont like it, its two bizarre. > > Bjarne Just..umm.. ewwww Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 21:31:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S2VQnY014289 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:31:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S2Vb34013516; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:31:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S2V738059664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:31:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S2V2Op070457; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:31:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao05.cox.net (eastrmmtao05.cox.net [68.230.240.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S2UvYf070330 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:31:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.220.19]) by eastrmmtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20060328023050.ZRCV3108.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:30:50 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:30:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060327194005.01df1490@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcZR0KYy5YbpxpxoRnqcfOwlLOEmtQAPdvmA Message-Id: <20060328023050.ZRCV3108.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:31:40 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428A009.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I agree, this is gross. I don't like to comment on other people's figure failings either but something this bizarre invites comment. I am sure she must be used to stares and questions. The press did do a piece on her, after all. Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 3/27/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 22:25:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S3PfGG015991 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:25:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S3PqP9025284; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:25:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S3PPUT065978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:25:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S3PLDC010709; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:25:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S3PID9010649 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:25:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB7324607F2; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:20:19 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:25:18 -0800 Message-ID: <003701c65217$3ceeb480$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. 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X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Also looks too painful! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:32 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing Hey, What do you say, a 15 inch waist: http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 I dont like it, its two bizarre. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 22:31:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S3VpNv016156 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:31:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S3W2p6030873; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:32:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S3VRTD066791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:31:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S3VQWS015236; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:31:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S3VMRA015194 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:31:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ACE33010778; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:26:27 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT: other costuming groups Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:31:26 -0800 Message-ID: <003801c65218$189357c0$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <009401c651e8$49602ca0$e100a8c0@compaqub> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:32:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428AE32.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 1:49 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] OT: other costuming groups Well, since we've had a ton of new members on the historical corsets group from this list in just the past few hours, I thought I'd quickly mention three of my other groups that might be of interest to the list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Real_Regency/ Regency fashions, lifestyle, reenactment get-togethers--reasonably active http://groups.yahoo.com/group/15thCenturyEurope/ Anything whatsoever related to the 15th century--needs new life http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PreRaphaeliteGarb/ For when you need a break from authenticity--needs new life -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 23:00:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S40u22017125 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:00:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S4177X020397; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:01:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S40fTt070679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:00:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S40aoJ036710; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:00:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFFt6N046034 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:15:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.277.79196a2 (57317) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:15:41 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <277.79196a2.31595b9c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:15:40 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:01:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428B503.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm getting tired of the number of times I've needed to alter the corset >pattern I'm currently working on (the 1844 corset in Corsets and >Crinolines, the bust is way too big & I'm on my third round of alterations >to reduce it) ************************ Look....you probably just need to step back a little....do something else for a bit... then come back to it. It's not that difficult. Just get the bust, waist, hips measurements right [use a bust front, from side to side across the front, and an across back at bust level to adjust that area] and go from there. Try to keep the pattern pieces the same shape as the pattern. [you'll find with the corset you're working on the bust gussets get much smaller and the curve of the piece they set into gets shallower] Here's a project for you! Buy a pattern from Past Patterns...their 1845-1860 Corset...# 708 and make it up in your size. Just follow the instructions. It's very close in many ways to the corset you're working on. It's my favorite 19th century corset! A beautiful shape. The original is lightly boned, but I put a bone between every bone in the pattern. You'll love it! Then, with that experience under your belt, you can go back and tackle the other corset. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 23:02:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S424Jd017150 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:02:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S42FQe009591; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:02:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S425jU070799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:02:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S425tn037864; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:02:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RFpw9B078383 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:52:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5549.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.73]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D5759FAC069 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:51:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002001c651b6$6ce0d710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:52:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=25% Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dye surprises X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:02:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428B547.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I am in the middle of dying silk chenille threads for the tangled garden jacket. I made all the reds yesterday, and they came out nice. http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/jacket.html Today i just dyed the greens. I could only find 3 greens, spring green, emerald green and olive green. So i mixed the collours a little. As i wanted to get a little warmer green, i added a little red, and to my surprise the silk chenille got very dark red! Even that i only added little red. Strange things happens. Anyway i made 16 bunches of lovely greens, but i cant fotograph them before they are dry. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 23:04:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S44djA017244 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:04:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S44ovG023367; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:04:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S44VNY071209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:04:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S44UEG039968; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2RJaIhS000709 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29372 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:36:18 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Regency Help! Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:36:05 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Regency Help! Thread-Index: AcZRyEHzXJ5RdWCRTleOWy2M4MvjdwAC6fjQ From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2RJaIhS000709 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:04:53 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428B5E2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO An excellent source for the early 1790's fashions is Heideloff's "Gallery of Fashion" published circa 1793-1802. From 1793-1800 is available on microfilm as part of the "History of Women Card Catalog. Many universities hold this. There are some websites that have some of the plates, some in the original color. Yummy! A few plates from the first year were reproduced in Sitwell's "Gallery of Fashion" which was a brief history of the journal and included some info and reproductions from its successor and more famous "Ackermann's Repository" Jane Austen may have seen some of the plates. Very few survive as it was published in possibly fewer than 1,000 per monthly issue. Each issue was small--usually two plates per issue with detailed(for the time)descriptions of the fashion or fashions in each plate. Apparently subscribers shared the plates with friends who couldn't afford the steep subsciption price. The plates were hand-colored with metals, jewelry, etc, picked out in real gold and silver paint. It was published in London. Would love to see Dover Books republish some or all of the plates and have recommended this at the Dover website as Austenites would find it of use, as well as a great source of"really existing fashions"(as the original publication claimed)of the 1790's which is greatly ignored by costume historians. It is an excellent chronicle of a transitional time in fashion during revolutionary times and deserves more study, I think. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Mar 27 23:05:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S458qZ017273 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:05:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S45JDt010492; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:05:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S44nCb071293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:04:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S44mFu040309; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:04:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S1Sv2l023884 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:28:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.358.c8d06c (1320) for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:28:46 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <358.c8d06c.3159eb4e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:28:46 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:05:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428B5FF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO youch!! prolapses here they come. ick - have a book that shows all the yucky stuff that can happen as a result of too tight lacing, and it's truly disgusting. debs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 02:51:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S7pYrC003903 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 02:51:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2S7piY0006393; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 02:51:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S7pQQL091095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:51:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S7pDmk096931; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pproxy.gmail.com (pproxy.gmail.com [64.233.166.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2S7pCaN096916 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:51:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rwatcher@gmail.com) Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 57so1669431pya for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:51:12 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=uqCe9hEX0UOALw1JnA9/OIS5F9/6h93eQs9wLMEU4PMJ++WT+cLH5/MczbAQGSiW+XVyw8JX/bx+N+KZHIwpeDZk9KXGCB2ZiKG8hpBpyr/sP5BwDyPNVb3ZeR7hihin5yjS4GsZQtR5YpTdqVmgkA+lOmmjDu4dO7o1ds0JuMU= Received: by 10.65.72.7 with SMTP id z7mr3158357qbk; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.220.17 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:51:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <85c23e7b0603272351m346f7fc3te137315d86d2ee63@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:51:11 -0800 From: "Rachel Watcher" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Spanish California Women's Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 02:51:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4428EB10.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2S7pYrC003903 Status: RO I am interested in finding information on Women's fashion from 1840 to 1850 Ranchero life prior to the Gold Rush in 49. Particularly the dress that would be worn for fandangos for married women. Anyone got info or urls? Thanks Rachael _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 05:30:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SAUcUd008020 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:30:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SAUn9a004429; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:30:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SAToXM005350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:29:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SATd3d098671; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:29:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SATXeu098603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:29:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-220-254-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.220.254]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2SATVeC003087 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:29:32 +1100 Message-ID: <005201c65252$9f17a280$fedcf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <277.79196a2.31595b9c@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:30:22 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:30:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44291059.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset cutting suggestion > > I'm getting tired of the number of times I've needed to alter the corset >>pattern I'm currently working on (the 1844 corset in Corsets and >>Crinolines, the bust is way too big & I'm on my third round of >>alterations >>to reduce it) > > ************************ > > Look....you probably just need to step back a little....do something else > for a bit... then come back to it. that's exactly what I'm doing actually as I need more SCA garb for an event coming up over the Easter long weekend I'm making a boned Tudor kirtle and I'm doing a lot of hand finishing so I can enter it into a competition. After that I'll probably go back to my Victorian as I want to have the outfit that will go over it ready by July for a Dickensian Ball. I think that one last alteration should reduce the bust enough to fit, but it will involve unpicking a seam that I've already sewn several times. I may try another corset pattern later, but I've bought the boning cut to length for this pattern and it wouldn't work for a different pattern. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 07:23:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SCN3rb004488 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:23:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SCNEF9008817; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:23:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SCMrgM014735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:22:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SCMmkW066745; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:22:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SCMjxB066708 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:22:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm25.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6A6718B9A; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 04:22:44 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060328042244.3F7AC92B@resin04.mta.everyone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 04:22:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: "Historic Costume List " , "Authentic SCA " , "The Renaissance Tailor " X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EKSqUTKtQ2QEAAAAD,b0e1f048c8a010b3984eb0d770a3e45b X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor Book arrived! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:23:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44292AB2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Wheeeeeee!!!! Happy dance! It arrived today! My poor husband exercised the *greatest* restraint, and _didn't_ open the parcel before I got home from work, bless him. ( Mind you, he only got home about 1/2 an hour before me. ;-P ) It's GORGEOUS. I've had a skim through, now to go and have a closer look. I just wanted to let people know - their copy is now obviously on the way to them! Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 09:32:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SEWvuC012980 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:32:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SEX7wu016871; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:33:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SEWMum038937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:32:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SEWKFI058015; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:32:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SEWGre057874 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:32:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.270.892d6a3 (3956) for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:32:05 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <270.892d6a3.315aa2e5@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:32:05 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye surprises To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:33:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44294923.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/27/2006 11:02:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Even that i only added little red. Hmmmmm.....interesting it came out RED! Usually when one mixes complimentary colors [Blue & orange, violet & yellow, red & green] they "kill" each other and you get a dull color. To brighten up a green, I'd add yellow. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 09:59:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SEx3lN013864 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:59:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SExF9Y005879; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:59:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SEwk91048456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:58:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SEwhmr078689; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:58:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f2phy.netins.net [167.142.229.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SEwc69078630 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:58:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [66.43.209.43] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 904457509 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:58:37 -0600 Message-ID: <02ca01c65278$26f08d50$2bd12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <270.892d6a3.315aa2e5@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dye surprises Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:59:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:59:18 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44294F43.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > Hmmmmm.....interesting it came out RED! > > Dyes strike at different rates. The conditions must have been right for the red to strike first and best, leaving no attachment sites for the other color. At a different temp or pH (or water hardness, or any other variable) they might have struck at the same time and made a completely different effect. Barjne: this probably means that you can use less dye than you have in the past. If dark red was the result of using less than normal, you can probably use less dye. This should result in less rinsing to remove excess dye. If the correct amount of dye is used for the weight of goods, the water will be exhausted--- it will be clear or barely tinted at the end of the dye bath and little or no dye will rinse off the yarn/fabric. This is only true if you are using non-union dye. (Union dyes are the kind that are supposed to dye "any" fiber content -- the dye not needed for whatever fiber you dye is not used from the dye bath and is washed away. Like Rit dye.) I hope I'm remembering the right terms--it's been awhile. Denise B Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 10:30:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFU0n3015068 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:30:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SFUBjf031791; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:30:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFTdu9057043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:29:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFTYxZ004649; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:29:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFTS8p004571 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:29:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm27.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F911858F; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:29:28 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060328072928.3F764C7F@resin01.mta.everyone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:29:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: "Historic Costume List " , "The Renaissance Tailor " , "Authentic SCA " X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EKVZYcBorpAEAAAAD,72b2970b71e02a1b74f8223d63a1e84d X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:30:14 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44295683.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I've been having a closer read of the 'Tudor Tailor' ( who needs sleep? ) and I am seriously, seriously impressed. I think the book may well have set a new standard for publications of this genre. An excellent resource. Now I want to do Tudor....... Joannah ( suffering from multiple period disorder - Roman, ECW, Georgian/Rum Corp, ACW - now what ELSE can I do....? ) ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 10:48:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFm6c2015691 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:48:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SFmHGQ015848; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:48:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFlloa059972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:47:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFlfOb021074; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:47:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFlaG3021013 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:47:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24286 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:47:36 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:47:31 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor Thread-Index: AcZSfKVYw0lyEjYUQ3y92a8+q93AigAAhUkw From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2SFlaG3021013 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:48:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44295AC1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Does anyone on this list know of any US sellers of this book? Or anyone selling that accepts CC payment, not PayPal? It isn't listed on Amazon.co.uk, yet! Cindy Abel Omaha NE -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Joannah Hansen Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:29 AM To: Historic Costume List ; The Renaissance Tailor ; Authentic SCA Subject: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor I've been having a closer read of the 'Tudor Tailor' ( who needs sleep? ) and I am seriously, seriously impressed. I think the book may well have set a new standard for publications of this genre. An excellent resource. Now I want to do Tudor....... Joannah ( suffering from multiple period disorder - Roman, ECW, Georgian/Rum Corp, ACW - now what ELSE can I do....? ) ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 11:37:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGba7p017434 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:37:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SGbl5O027381; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:37:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbMuA066965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbILa067723; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbEn1067634 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm26.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D7B401DB for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:37:07 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060328083706.3F7631EC@resin01.mta.everyone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:37:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EKWYy7Rm4xgEAAAAB,ca2307db4abe9e90c10f00b707f801e5 X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:37:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429665B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Cindy, If you contact Ninya and Jane you may be able to make arrangements to pay by CC. They do accept cheques, though. The link below tells you how to do so. There are also links on their website to contact them directly. http://www.tudortailor.com/sales.htm Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu wrote: Does anyone on this list know of any US sellers of this book? Or anyone selling that accepts CC payment, not PayPal? It isn't listed on Amazon.co.uk, yet! Cindy Abel Omaha NE _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 11:37:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbdpo017438 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:37:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SGbpHq028836; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:37:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbO0l066972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbNjH067805; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbIPT067714 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm27.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A86B18C54 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:37:18 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060328083717.3F7CE622@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:37:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EKWY9I4+vjgEAAAAB,fb64abde5c029d459017cc89524297ee X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:37:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429665F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Cindy, If you contact Ninya and Jane you may be able to make arrangements to pay by CC. They do accept cheques, though. The link below tells you how to do so. There are also links on their website to contact them directly. http://www.tudortailor.com/sales.htm Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu wrote: Does anyone on this list know of any US sellers of this book? Or anyone selling that accepts CC payment, not PayPal? It isn't listed on Amazon.co.uk, yet! Cindy Abel Omaha NE _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 11:38:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGcG7V017462 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:38:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SGcS7F009507; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:38:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbaHk066994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbXkw067967; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGbT3v067899 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm25.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 204CB18581 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:37:29 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm25 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060328083725.3F7631F0@resin01.mta.everyone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:37:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EKWZICHbN6gEAAAAB,7c7037f5345eb6ec27fdb6673cd0a5df X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:38:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44296684.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Cindy, If you contact Ninya and Jane you may be able to make arrangements to pay by CC. They do accept cheques, though. The link below tells you how to do so. There are also links on their website to contact them directly. http://www.tudortailor.com/sales.htm Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu wrote: Does anyone on this list know of any US sellers of this book? Or anyone selling that accepts CC payment, not PayPal? It isn't listed on Amazon.co.uk, yet! Cindy Abel Omaha NE _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 11:50:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGoRaS017903 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:50:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SGoc6T008013; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:50:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGo96Y068997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:50:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGo4ZE080132; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:50:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGnxGR080017 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:50:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Joannah@SLUGGY.NET) Received: from dm27.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CD2418CFE for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:49:38 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060328084938.3F763E48@resin01.mta.everyone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:49:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Joannah Hansen" To: "Historic Costume List " X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5EKWkisb7mwAEAAAAB,cd2d044f5c1bdca3ad2a7f8ba41061fd X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.66.31] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] My apologies..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:50:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429695E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Whoops! Sorry about the multiple posts of my reply to Cindy - I think the computer hiccupped. :-\ Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 11:53:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGrTL1018009 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:53:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SGrfnI010970; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:53:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGrMm5069428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:53:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGrJos083367; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:53:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f22.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SGrDgQ083258 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:53:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:45:11 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:44:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [137.195.176.12] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "N Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:44:50 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2006 16:45:11.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA9F5880:01C65286] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:53:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44296A15.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I wonder if anyone knows about any possible significance of wearing striped petticoats. Or even just simply of evidence, in whatever form. I am surprised to see a striped petticoat (vertical) on a c. 1690s dummy. I'm just trying to make sense of it and possibly get a better dating as well. Thanks! Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 12:41:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SHfL5I019504 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:41:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SHfVpD024634; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:41:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SHeciq082488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:40:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SHeZRa034525; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:40:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SHeQM7034223 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:40:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35C20A663D for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:40:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4429752E.5000206@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:41:02 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:41:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429754B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > I wonder if anyone knows about any possible significance of wearing > striped petticoats. Or even just simply of evidence, in whatever form. > > I am surprised to see a striped petticoat (vertical) on a c. 1690s > dummy. I'm just trying to make sense of it and possibly get a better > dating as well. > Do you have a picture you can point us to? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 13:23:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SINU0H020986 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:23:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SINer9032618; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:23:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SINMrt095923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:23:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SINFeT079592; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:23:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2SGpUVW081484 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:51:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 8530 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2006 08:51:25 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 8504, pid: 8524, t: 0.8410s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp3 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2006 08:51:24 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060328084939.023a5008@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:51:14 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: RE: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor In-Reply-To: <20060328083725.3F7631F0@resin01.mta.everyone.net> References: <20060328083725.3F7631F0@resin01.mta.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp3.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:23:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44297F2D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I was able to pay for my copy with a credit card rather than using PayPal directly through their web site. Joan in Sacramento, CA, still waiting for my copy At 08:37 AM 3/28/2006, you wrote: >Cindy, > >If you contact Ninya and Jane you may be able to make arrangements >to pay by CC. They do accept cheques, though. The link below tells >you how to do so. There are also links on their website to contact >them directly. > >http://www.tudortailor.com/sales.htm > >Joannah > >~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ > >--- CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu wrote: > >Does anyone on this list know of any US sellers of this book? Or anyone >selling that accepts CC payment, not PayPal? It isn't listed on >Amazon.co.uk, yet! > >Cindy Abel >Omaha NE _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 13:36:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SIahKY021360 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:36:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SIatlZ013282; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:36:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SIaSLE000492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:36:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SIaMCx093976; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:36:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SIaHrf093859 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:36:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5558.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.88]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 57A0FFAC040 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:36:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001601c65296$7fd538d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:36:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:36:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44298247.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dear Nicole, One of my favourite fashion prints from J.D. de Saint- Jean woman walking with a light neckerchief on her head and a parasol, is a beautifull summer mantua made from striped fabric. The stripes are made in the vertical direction, but the bottom is horizontal. Made by ankles. My book doesnt give a year, but i would say late 1680ies- 90 Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:44 PM Subject: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? >I wonder if anyone knows about any possible significance of wearing striped >petticoats. Or even just simply of evidence, in whatever form. > > I am surprised to see a striped petticoat (vertical) on a c. 1690s dummy. > I'm just trying to make sense of it and possibly get a better dating as > well. > > Thanks! > > Nicole > > -------------------- > "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." > > _________________________________________________________________ > Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger > 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 13:51:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SIpIa1021773 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:51:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SIpUHP027222; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:51:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SIovRB003735 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:50:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SIoqRr009275; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:50:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.234]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SIonV7009241 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:50:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so1721840wri for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:50:49 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=H+Xr4T9WNVwYas+u1xUPJNcNcs1Qzy77SeVeaF6LxJP5hrrAr/bzyEcD89yhffXzYu5neDH/drqQ688g1RPFn5B25FKFTg3yMJZapb+Ek8j3XRb925p2T/f7/zcmcu9fnhPOVMm8EFE0zFKesD07FAs/ncRCVPUBEx/3rdTe7AI= Received: by 10.64.96.6 with SMTP id t6mr149754qbb; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:50:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:50:49 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2SIonV7009241 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Spanish California Women's Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:51:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442985B2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >I am interested in finding information on Women's fashion from 1840 to 1850 >Ranchero life prior to the Gold Rush in 49. Particularly the dress that >would be worn for fandangos for married women. >Anyone got info or urls? Rachael, Call your local state historical park. Most of the volunteer assns are very helpful to newcomers. In particular, try Peralta Adobe in SJ, San Juan Bautista SHP and most especially Fort Ross. Many will have reference lists. Or read "Two Years Before the Mast". He'll tell you what he saw 1st person. Check the h-cost archives under "Californio" & fandango. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 14:08:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJ8gBC022369 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:08:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SJ8rKN013550; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:08:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJ8RUI007054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:08:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJ8OsF026547; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:08:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s35.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s35.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.107]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJ8JE2026405 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:08:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.246.126]) by bay0-omc1-s35.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:08:14 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:08:14 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.50.207 by BAY106-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:08:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.50.207] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:08:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:08:06 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2006 19:08:14.0058 (UTC) FILETIME=[F67EBCA0:01C6529A] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:08:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442989C5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2SJ8gBC022369 Status: RO I will be selling The Tudor Tailor but I'm not sure exactly when I'll get copies or what the price will be. A U.S. publisher is going to do an American edition but he hasn't set a release date yet. I can get British copies through my regular wholesale distributor but they will be more expensive. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 14:28:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJSa57023234 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:28:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SJSlwT001317; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:28:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJS3TV009909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:28:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJRxGi044457; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:27:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from liberty3.libertyactivist.org (libertyactivist.org [199.227.219.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJRtFR044398 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:27:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from raelee@rachelsampsel.com) Received: from localhost (liberty3 [127.0.0.1]) by liberty3.libertyactivist.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF91362A44 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from liberty3.libertyactivist.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (liberty3 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16289-05 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by liberty3.libertyactivist.org (Postfix, from userid 48) id C182062A23; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:24:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from 199.31.3.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user raelee) by www.libertyactivist.org with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:24:03 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <31841.199.31.3.195.1143573843.squirrel@www.libertyactivist.org> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:24:03 -0700 (MST) From: "Rachel Sampsel" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at libertyactivist.org Subject: [h-cost] Venetian research question - need help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:28:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44298E6F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hello, I am new to this list so before I continue, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Rachel Sampsel and in the SCA my personae name is Raisa Zaplatskaya, also called "Patches." I've been playing in the SCA for a little bit and now I have gotten myself into a bit of a pickle: I've volunteered to run several plaster mask making workshops in anticipation of a masked ball. The organizer of the event would like to focus on a Venetian theme. Ok, no problem with that. The problem comes in when I'm researching Venetian masking traditions PRIOR to the 1600's. I’d like to offer a “brief history of” handout and I’m running into all kinds of problems. I've run across a number of masking sources on the internet, professional suppliers, amateur sites and so on that give a very romantic view of the masking tradition, but don't supply any bibliography. According to these sources, Venice had a strong masking tradition in everyday life prior to 1268 C.E. They swear up and down that it was VERY common for peasants through nobles to wear masks in public anytime they wanted to go about their “business” (legal and illegal) without anyone knowing who they were. These sources also swear that the first of many laws limiting the use of masks occurred in 1268 C.E. to try and put a cap on the illegal activities and moral declination of the city. Some sources hint that these were sumptuary laws and others that they were actual “masking use” laws. These sources don’t give me any reference material to work with and when I ask, they point me to another source that is equally frustrating in terms of giving me a bibliography. I have poured through every Venetian history book I can lay my hands on and can’t find a single reference to masks in this regard prior to Carnival becoming the city’s big money making attraction in the 18th century. Logically, if masks were that widespread, that common and a big enough problem that laws were enacted curtailing their manufacture and use, I should have found it in at least 1 history book, right? I mean, one book I tackled was Venice from 697 – 1797 and could provide socio-economic figures for the city by year and class as well as reported criminal statistics by neighborhood. Theoretically, if masking had become that detrimental to society, it would be deserving of at least a footnote, would it not? So my question is – does anyone have ANY idea on a reputable scholastic source for Venetian masking traditions prior to the 17th century? Is there maybe a database out there with medieval Venetian law codes that I can tear through or maybe a recognized scholarly authority SOMEWHERE on the subject? I really don’t want to look like a brainless twit on the subject when people start poppin’ questions at me. Any help would be appreciated at this juncture. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 14:33:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJXqVO023432 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:33:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SJY3GL006561; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJXVS5010651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:33:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJXTEY049375; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:33:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f14.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJXQNQ049255 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:33:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:33:22 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:33:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [83.105.84.119] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <001601c65296$7fd538d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "N Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:33:18 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2006 19:33:22.0815 (UTC) FILETIME=[79C8C8F0:01C6529E] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44298FAB.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Yes of course! How could I forget, I tell you, my brain's gone to mush since I started the new job. ;-) If it is the one that I mean then it's 1670s. Is it this one? http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/engravings/1670/woman_summer_1675.jpg However, it's not just the petticoat (in fairly broad stripes on the dummy) but in the fashion print it's the whole dress. I wonder how many others I am currently forgetting due to brain overload. Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: "Historical Costume" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th >centuries? >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:36:16 +0200 > >Dear Nicole, >One of my favourite fashion prints from J.D. de Saint- Jean woman walking >with a light neckerchief on her head and a parasol, is a beautifull summer >mantua made from striped fabric. The stripes are made in the vertical >direction, but the bottom is horizontal. Made by ankles. My book doesnt >give a year, but i would say late 1680ies- 90 > > >Bjarne >----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:44 PM >Subject: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? > > >>I wonder if anyone knows about any possible significance of wearing >>striped petticoats. Or even just simply of evidence, in whatever form. >> >>I am surprised to see a striped petticoat (vertical) on a c. 1690s dummy. >>I'm just trying to make sense of it and possibly get a better dating as >>well. >> >>Thanks! >> >>Nicole >> >>-------------------- >>"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger >>7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 14:44:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJi4CH023795 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:44:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SJiGS0016951; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:44:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJhqTn013073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:43:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJhp5s059636; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:43:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SJhlBS059553 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:43:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5558.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.88]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 63719262845 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:43:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000b01c6529f$f0858e00$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:43:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:44:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44299210.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, yes excactly this one. Also isnt there a portrait of Queen Anne in a striped mantua? Didnt realise it was that early 1670ies Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? > Yes of course! How could I forget, I tell you, my brain's gone to mush > since I started the new job. ;-) If it is the one that I mean then it's > 1670s. Is it this one? > > http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/engravings/1670/woman_summer_1675.jpg > > However, it's not just the petticoat (in fairly broad stripes on the > dummy) but in the fashion print it's the whole dress. > > I wonder how many others I am currently forgetting due to brain overload. > > Nicole > > -------------------- > "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." > > > > >>From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >>Reply-To: Historical Costume >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th >>centuries? >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:36:16 +0200 >> >>Dear Nicole, >>One of my favourite fashion prints from J.D. de Saint- Jean woman walking >>with a light neckerchief on her head and a parasol, is a beautifull summer >>mantua made from striped fabric. The stripes are made in the vertical >>direction, but the bottom is horizontal. Made by ankles. My book doesnt >>give a year, but i would say late 1680ies- 90 >> >> >>Bjarne >>----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:44 PM >>Subject: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th >>centuries? >> >> >>>I wonder if anyone knows about any possible significance of wearing >>>striped petticoats. Or even just simply of evidence, in whatever form. >>> >>>I am surprised to see a striped petticoat (vertical) on a c. 1690s dummy. >>>I'm just trying to make sense of it and possibly get a better dating as >>>well. >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Nicole >>> >>>-------------------- >>>"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger >>>7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _________________________________________________________________ > Are you using the latest version of MSN Messenger? Download MSN Messenger > 7.5 today! http://join.msn.com/messenger/overview > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 15:09:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SK9D3a024573 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:09:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SK9PnO009120; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:09:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SK8eeX016327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SK8clO083295; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:08:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SK8Ytl083169 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:08:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2SK8Tb10395 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:08:29 -0500 In-Reply-To: <31841.199.31.3.195.1143573843.squirrel@www.libertyactivist.org> References: <31841.199.31.3.195.1143573843.squirrel@www.libertyactivist.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <16D4F968-5E04-4212-99AE-4EA0267E38B2@alfalfapress.com> From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venetian research question - need help Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:08:28 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2SK8Ytl083169 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:09:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442997F5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ok, some of these have nothing to do with masks, but are interesting anyway. :D They might have bibliographies which will lead you to new sources. Revelling in the past. Geographical, Feb2003, Vol. 75 Issue 2, p28, 7p, 9c; (AN 8933572) THE OLD AND NEW WORLDS OF MARDI GRAS. By: Ribeiro, Aileen. History Today, Feb86, Vol. 36 Issue 2, p30, 6p, 8bw; (AN 4885564) OUTWARD APPEARANCES: THE DISPLAY OF WOMEN IN RESTORATION LONDON (ENGLAND) Author: PRITCHARD, WILLIAM JAMES Degree: PH.D. Institution: THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO 0330 Year: 1998 THEATRE OF THE FLESH: THE CARNIVAL OF VENICE AND THE THEATRE OF THE WORLD (THEATRUM MUNDI, ITALY) Author: GIURGEA, ADRIAN Degree: PH.D. Institution: UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, LOS ANGELES 0031 Year: 1987 Good luck! Althea On Mar 28, 2006, at 11:24 AM, Rachel Sampsel wrote: > > Hello, I am new to this list so before I continue, I'd like to > introduce > myself. > > My name is Rachel Sampsel and in the SCA my personae name is Raisa > Zaplatskaya, also called "Patches." I've been playing in the SCA > for a > little bit and now I have gotten myself into a bit of a pickle: > > I've volunteered to run several plaster mask making workshops in > anticipation of a masked ball. The organizer of the event would > like to > focus on a Venetian theme. Ok, no problem with that. > > The problem comes in when I'm researching Venetian masking traditions > PRIOR to the 1600's. I’d like to offer a “brief history of” > handout and > I’m running into all kinds of problems. I've run across a number of > masking sources on the internet, professional suppliers, amateur > sites and > so on that give a very romantic view of the masking tradition, but > don't > supply any bibliography. > > According to these sources, Venice had a strong masking tradition in > everyday life prior to 1268 C.E. They swear up and down that it > was VERY > common for peasants through nobles to wear masks in public anytime > they > wanted to go about their “business” (legal and illegal) without anyone > knowing who they were. These sources also swear that the first of > many > laws limiting the use of masks occurred in 1268 C.E. to try and put > a cap > on the illegal activities and moral declination of the city. Some > sources > hint that these were sumptuary laws and others that they were actual > “masking use” laws. These sources don’t give me any reference > material to > work with and when I ask, they point me to another source that is > equally > frustrating in terms of giving me a bibliography. > > I have poured through every Venetian history book I can lay my > hands on > and can’t find a single reference to masks in this regard prior to > Carnival becoming the city’s big money making attraction in the 18th > century. Logically, if masks were that widespread, that common and > a big > enough problem that laws were enacted curtailing their manufacture and > use, I should have found it in at least 1 history book, right? I > mean, one > book I tackled was Venice from 697 – 1797 and could provide socio- > economic > figures for the city by year and class as well as reported criminal > statistics by neighborhood. Theoretically, if masking had become that > detrimental to society, it would be deserving of at least a footnote, > would it not? > > So my question is – does anyone have ANY idea on a reputable > scholastic > source for Venetian masking traditions prior to the 17th century? Is > there maybe a database out there with medieval Venetian law codes > that I > can tear through or maybe a recognized scholarly authority > SOMEWHERE on > the subject? > > I really don’t want to look like a brainless twit on the subject when > people start poppin’ questions at me. > > Any help would be appreciated at this juncture. > > Patches > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." William of Conches, 12th century _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 15:22:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKMK3e025056 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:22:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SKMVKa020786; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:22:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKMCuC018033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:22:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKM9Na096243; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:22:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2SKM4HL096065 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:22:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 98539 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2006 20:21:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2006 20:21:58 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:22:04 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:22:34 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44299B07.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. I don't want Italian - I have Moda a Firenze. (and want to make something from it, but it would not be right - boo!) I have checked the two Clouet databases in the French "Joconde" system, which are drool worthy, but unhelpful. I have checked www.marquise.de, "My Gracious Silence", Vecellio et al, plus postcards and books till I don't know what I am seeing. I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a lot of you are interested in this period. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 15:25:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKPIDI025147 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:25:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SKPUYN023220; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:25:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKOHBR018242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:24:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKOE2n098209; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:24:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKO0Jh097927 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:24:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2SKNsb15392 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:23:54 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Althea Turner Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:23:54 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] quickie textile guide X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:25:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44299BBA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hey all, I have a friend who is not allowed to go to the fabric store without a keeper. :D She knows nothing about fabrics and likes shiny bright SHINY fabrics, which are rarely a natural fiber. So with her in mind, I am working on a quick guide that she, and others, can print out. I am sure I am leaving out important information so if you could check it out and let me know, I'd greatly appreciate it. The intended audience is re-enactors without much experience with fabrics or sewing. http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! Althea Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." William of Conches, 12th century _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 15:33:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKXx1L025514 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:33:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SKYAxY030759; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:34:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKXfjM019577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:33:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKXSNr007165; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:33:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKXPXK007007 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:33:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8687EA65D1 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:33:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <44299DBD.4070709@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:05 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:34:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44299DC2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO N Kipar wrote: > http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/engravings/1670/woman_summer_1675.jpg > > However, it's not just the petticoat (in fairly broad stripes on the > dummy) but in the fashion print it's the whole dress. > > I wonder how many others I am currently forgetting due to brain overload. > There's the one at the Met: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/eudr/ho_33.54a,b.htm I collected photos of dresses from this time period, but that is the only one with stripes that I have. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 15:41:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKfZA9025864 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:41:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SKfk75005465; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:41:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKfIh0020390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:41:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKfFVV014183; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:41:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SKfBqm014124 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:41:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from catrijn@gmail.com) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l37so18904nfc for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:41:10 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KTSJxdlk5EOoUNKfeAkylWMktjAwmy4zV9whqKv19GcoohYDi//ZQZVlwWyQxoqNdX3NvP000ZMCaupNPrpum6XT/2UmOF4lzspENBlAVbcvtCknkDiqZTwkFmXSi/HKmz+rixIH3IEBjmeZiz8V2y3pXqawTWIB43P8gghS+PQ= Received: by 10.49.15.10 with SMTP id s10mr2584632nfi; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.55.4 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:41:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:41:10 -0600 From: "Catrijn vanden Westhende" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide In-Reply-To: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2SKfBqm014124 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:41:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 44299F8A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO One quick note, accuracy wise: 'silk' velvet is (almost?) always silk ground and rayon pile, not vice versa. You might expand on blends where appropriate - for example, a linen-rayon blend, while not ideal, is a great improvement over linen-look polyester. You might also want to include basic information about why polyester and many other synthetics are better avoided when possible - breathability, fire safety, and durability are major points even for someone who isn't driven to authenticity. - Catrijn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 16:30:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLUBqb028165 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:30:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SLUMf5017338; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:30:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLU0cv026742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:30:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLTqjD059677; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:29:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLTlWp059580 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:29:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k2SLTiag024238 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:29:44 -0500 X-ORBL: [69.107.77.35] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-77-35.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.77.35]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2SLTd4X174514 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:29:45 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20060328132742.03290e48@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:28:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060309233155.036de1e8@64.87.54.245> References: <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:30:25 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429AAEE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >> Sailors of the Elizabethan period, based on period art wear loose >> venetians or what willlater be called slops. Some are shown closed at >> the bottom some are not. The upper body garments tend to be either >> close fitting doublets, or a loose smock sort of jacket referred to in >> the period as a cassock. The real obvious indicator of a sailor is the >> cap. The most notable ones being thrummed caps. Thrummed caps look in >> art like fur. They are made from strands of woll (thrum) being afixed >> through the weave of kit caps, not unlike the modern watch cap. Thrums are little bits of wool knotted together. If you knit this up, and put all the knotted ends to the outside, it does look like fur. >> Good art does exist out there. A number of Dutch maps shows mariner >> figures as does the Mariner's Mirror. Actually the Dutch version and >> the English version depict some different figures. I think it is just >> after the period, but there are the woodcuts of the BArents expeditions >> as well. Some art survivies depicting one of Frobisher's trips as >> well. There is also the image depicted in Vecellios that was earlier >> mentioned. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com ////\\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) )(( <> ))( * ) ( * /----\ /---\ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 16:47:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLl9bv028775 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:47:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SLlLsv000392; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:47:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLkZRF028715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLkRLg074681; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:46:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay113-f29.bay113.hotmail.com [65.54.168.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLkMVo074488 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 13:46:16 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:46:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [83.105.84.119] X-Originating-Email: [marquesate@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marquesate@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <44299DBD.4070709@reddawn.net> From: "N Kipar" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:46:12 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2006 21:46:16.0542 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A7EF7E0:01C652B1] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:47:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429AEE9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thanks, Dawn. The peek of striped petticoat that you can see on the dummy is a lot more bold. :-) http://www.kipar.org/temp/striped-petticoat-dummy.jpg That's the lady. Nicole -------------------- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." >From: Dawn >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th >centuries? >Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:05 -0600 > >N Kipar wrote: > > >>http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/engravings/1670/woman_summer_1675.jpg >> >>However, it's not just the petticoat (in fairly broad stripes on the >>dummy) but in the fashion print it's the whole dress. >> >>I wonder how many others I am currently forgetting due to brain overload. >> > >There's the one at the Met: > >http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/eudr/ho_33.54a,b.htm > > >I collected photos of dresses from this time period, but that is the only >one with stripes that I have. > > >Dawn > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _________________________________________________________________ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 16:56:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLujpC029138 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:56:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SLuuo4009724; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:56:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLuFOd030626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:56:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLuC5b083723; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:56:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:QLwgubReVJssCHlTM7ms4tJoK7BM4q8/@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SLu7nN083651 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:56:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.216] (206-124-5-216.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.216]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2SLrF300924 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:53:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:56:57 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) Cc: Subject: [h-cost] satin taffeta X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:56:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429B128.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Since I work at Joanns part time, I can't help but have noticed the fabric they sell called satin taffeta. I can't figure out how you can combine satin and taffeta. Aren't each of them a distinctive weave? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 17:18:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMIIUV030235 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:18:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SMIUN9032418; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:18:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMIAiX034003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:18:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMI6p1004679; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:18:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMI3Sf004536 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:18:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.31d.1033dc5 (4214) for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:17:41 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <31d.1033dc5.315b1004@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:17:40 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:18:33 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429B636.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/28/2006 3:42:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, catrijn@gmail.com writes: durability While durability is dependent not only on fiber, but also fabric structure, I think it is safe to say that polyester and nylon are very durable (they are used for tire cords, after all). Rayon, on the other hand, is inherently weak, but some people do not consider it "synthetic" per se, since it is regenerated cellulose, but rather "man-made." Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 17:42:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMg7WL032240 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:42:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SMgIVK021179; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:42:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMfpRR037100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMfm3L026164; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:41:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMfgk2026065 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:41:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AA7E3BB07A8; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:36:46 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:41:48 -0800 Message-ID: <001a01c652b8$cc713870$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:42:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429BBCA.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I ordered mine online from the link originally posted on this list, try email: ninya@ninyamikhaila.com and got a voucher in the mail. It was converted to US$ on my Visa bill. They will mail it when it comes in. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Abel, Cynthia Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 7:48 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor Does anyone on this list know of any US sellers of this book? Or anyone selling that accepts CC payment, not PayPal? It isn't listed on Amazon.co.uk, yet! Cindy Abel Omaha NE -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Joannah Hansen Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:29 AM To: Historic Costume List ; The Renaissance Tailor ; Authentic SCA Subject: [h-cost] More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor I've been having a closer read of the 'Tudor Tailor' ( who needs sleep? ) and I am seriously, seriously impressed. I think the book may well have set a new standard for publications of this genre. An excellent resource. Now I want to do Tudor....... Joannah ( suffering from multiple period disorder - Roman, ECW, Georgian/Rum Corp, ACW - now what ELSE can I do....? ) ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 17:47:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMlYS0032555 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:47:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SMljki025570; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:47:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMlP1X037920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:47:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMlLdI031509; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:47:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SMlIFx031415 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:47:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id ABCB13E403EE; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:42:19 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Venetian research question - need help Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:47:21 -0800 Message-ID: <001b01c652b9$93486360$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <31841.199.31.3.195.1143573843.squirrel@www.libertyactivist.org> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2SMlIFx031415 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:47:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429BD11.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm curious. Are you making a plaster mold to then cover in whatever the mask is made of? What do you use for the base (to build upon)? Sharon, who has made masks, with difficulty, because I didn't have a good base :) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rachel Sampsel Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:24 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Venetian research question - need help Hello, I am new to this list so before I continue, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Rachel Sampsel and in the SCA my personae name is Raisa Zaplatskaya, also called "Patches." I've been playing in the SCA for a little bit and now I have gotten myself into a bit of a pickle: I've volunteered to run several plaster mask making workshops in anticipation of a masked ball. The organizer of the event would like to focus on a Venetian theme. Ok, no problem with that. The problem comes in when I'm researching Venetian masking traditions PRIOR to the 1600's. I'd like to offer a "brief history of" handout and I'm running into all kinds of problems. I've run across a number of masking sources on the internet, professional suppliers, amateur sites and so on that give a very romantic view of the masking tradition, but don't supply any bibliography. According to these sources, Venice had a strong masking tradition in everyday life prior to 1268 C.E. They swear up and down that it was VERY common for peasants through nobles to wear masks in public anytime they wanted to go about their "business" (legal and illegal) without anyone knowing who they were. These sources also swear that the first of many laws limiting the use of masks occurred in 1268 C.E. to try and put a cap on the illegal activities and moral declination of the city. Some sources hint that these were sumptuary laws and others that they were actual "masking use" laws. These sources don't give me any reference material to work with and when I ask, they point me to another source that is equally frustrating in terms of giving me a bibliography. I have poured through every Venetian history book I can lay my hands on and can't find a single reference to masks in this regard prior to Carnival becoming the city's big money making attraction in the 18th century. Logically, if masks were that widespread, that common and a big enough problem that laws were enacted curtailing their manufacture and use, I should have found it in at least 1 history book, right? I mean, one book I tackled was Venice from 697 - 1797 and could provide socio-economic figures for the city by year and class as well as reported criminal statistics by neighborhood. Theoretically, if masking had become that detrimental to society, it would be deserving of at least a footnote, would it not? So my question is - does anyone have ANY idea on a reputable scholastic source for Venetian masking traditions prior to the 17th century? Is there maybe a database out there with medieval Venetian law codes that I can tear through or maybe a recognized scholarly authority SOMEWHERE on the subject? I really don't want to look like a brainless twit on the subject when people start poppin' questions at me. Any help would be appreciated at this juncture. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 18:15:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNF270001351 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:15:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SNFDmB014541; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:15:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNEpgi041815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:14:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNEmhe056610; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:14:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNEhto056502 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:14:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A23ABE402AC; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:09:46 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:14:46 -0800 Message-ID: <001e01c652bd$68eda860$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:15:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429C381.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In one of my groups, one of the ladies has a doublet style bodice, but she wears it open, sort of like a modern shirt, so it forms a "V" at the neck. She doesn't wear a partlet, just a chemise, which is also open, over the doublet, so that the underside of the chemise shows. Hope this makes sense. I tried to get a pic, but it wouldn't copy. If you want more info, I'll ask if it's ok to post the site where we have pics. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:22 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. I don't want Italian - I have Moda a Firenze. (and want to make something from it, but it would not be right - boo!) I have checked the two Clouet databases in the French "Joconde" system, which are drool worthy, but unhelpful. I have checked www.marquise.de, "My Gracious Silence", Vecellio et al, plus postcards and books till I don't know what I am seeing. I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a lot of you are interested in this period. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 18:15:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNFDOA001362 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:15:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SNFPqb028685; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:15:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNEpPE041812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:14:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNEnHL056627; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:14:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNEjdW056524 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:14:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f55de.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.222]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D4569262808 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:14:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003501c652bd$666a58e0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:14:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:15:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429C38D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Nicole, Why do you ask about this particular petticoat. Are you not sure if it is correct. To me it looks real. Perhaps the underskirts, petticoats was not that important in design, so they used all kinds of, as it didnt show. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "N Kipar" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th centuries? > Thanks, Dawn. The peek of striped petticoat that you can see on the dummy > is a lot more bold. :-) > > http://www.kipar.org/temp/striped-petticoat-dummy.jpg > > That's the lady. > > Nicole > > -------------------- > "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance." > > > > >>From: Dawn >>Reply-To: Historical Costume >>To: Historical Costume >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Striped petticoats in the late 17th/early 18th >>centuries? >>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:34:05 -0600 >> >>N Kipar wrote: >> >> >>>http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/engravings/1670/woman_summer_1675.jpg >>> >>>However, it's not just the petticoat (in fairly broad stripes on the >>>dummy) but in the fashion print it's the whole dress. >>> >>>I wonder how many others I am currently forgetting due to brain overload. >>> >> >>There's the one at the Met: >> >>http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/eudr/ho_33.54a,b.htm >> >> >>I collected photos of dresses from this time period, but that is the only >>one with stripes that I have. >> >> >>Dawn >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _________________________________________________________________ > Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! > http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 18:18:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNIWnm001587 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:18:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SNIhDs017151; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:18:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNI66v042199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:18:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNI47v059374; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:18:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNHe0W059137 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:17:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2EB6F807E8; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:12:43 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:17:44 -0800 Message-ID: <001f01c652bd$d2d7ea60$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:18:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429C453.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Very nice. A friend told me to take a portable lighter along- if you aren't sure if it's polyester, get a sample, take it outside and burn it. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Althea Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:24 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Hey all, I have a friend who is not allowed to go to the fabric store without a keeper. :D She knows nothing about fabrics and likes shiny bright SHINY fabrics, which are rarely a natural fiber. So with her in mind, I am working on a quick guide that she, and others, can print out. I am sure I am leaving out important information so if you could check it out and let me know, I'd greatly appreciate it. The intended audience is re-enactors without much experience with fabrics or sewing. http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! Althea Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." William of Conches, 12th century _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 18:26:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNQh4o001916 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:26:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SNQtmA023697; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:26:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNQeOv043013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:26:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNQZuE066721; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:26:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNQVrc066669 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:26:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ECAB520A9 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:26:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060328152541.036121d8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:26:24 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:26:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429C63F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 12:22 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote: >I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an >English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a ruff, or >a partlet, or a closed up neckline. Ahhhhhh... nope, not in my records. They all have a version of something from the above list. Sorry. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 18:48:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNmAfS002854 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:48:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SNmL6N007381; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:48:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNlwY2045279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:47:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNlrFE085358; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:47:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNloSJ085264 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:47:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i20so51156wra for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:47:47 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=keZRp7+2fFwQFzN7MdiuOh3BI75bFcIrfg6ZvKseQ7P8alZA/guqZq5YJq9Inn3r6ZTwrDI8aNO+uTH30f2HYT7/8G3EosV9TOWswTqE4NuA36xLbFNHZ4wWujKjJnIJpE69xB3xLCLz9CDignTsYwmFFQe79xb+qJuzRSI2kfI= Received: by 10.54.139.3 with SMTP id m3mr137175wrd; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.129.20 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:47:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590603281547j744646fy6aca25930621c161@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:47:47 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <001e01c652bd$68eda860$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> <001e01c652bd$68eda860$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:48:24 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429CB45.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2SNmAfS002854 Status: RO > > > I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and > have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years > either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn > in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to > find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a > lot of you are interested in this period. > > Suzi > > > I don't have the book to hand, that whole at work thing, but I do recall > some needleworks showing ladies about the garden that while they have the > high neck/partlet/ruff on and it's allowed to fall open at the neck, > creating a bit of a different look. If that helps I can scan a copy in, > in an hour or two, Alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 18:55:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNtCvY003172 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:55:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2SNtNgS013115; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:55:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNsQTJ046065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SNsNov092543; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:54:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2SNsCai092353 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:54:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 22615 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2006 15:54:11 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 22558, pid: 22605, t: 1.4589s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2006 15:54:10 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060328154905.0241cda0@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:53:56 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:55:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429CCEB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 12:22 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote: >I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of >an English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a >ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. > >I don't want Italian - I have Moda a Firenze. (and want to make >something from it, but it would not be right - boo!) I have checked >the two Clouet databases in the French "Joconde" system, which are >drool worthy, but unhelpful. I have checked www.marquise.de, "My >Gracious Silence", Vecellio et al, plus postcards and books till I >don't know what I am seeing. > >I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and >have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years >either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn >in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to >find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a >lot of you are interested in this period. > >Suzi Given the ubiquity of ruffs in the 1570s, I'd be very surprised to find a portrait that did not show a ruff of some style. The biggest variation in the design of clothes tends to be in the sleeve style, whether high- (also called a doublet bodice) or low-bodied (with a partlet), and whether or not the overskirt is open over a forepart. The other way to vary things is by fabric choices. But there will not be a big variation in silhouette. Mistress Blanche Parry, chief Gentlewoman to the Queen [GoSGN] aka Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 19:07:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T073rA003832 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:07:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T07EXX021997; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:07:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T06NaI047616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:06:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T06Mvc004510; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:06:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T06IlE004452 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:06:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE5216C903EE; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:01:22 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:06:23 -0800 Message-ID: <002a01c652c4$9dbc0350$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <870801590603281547j744646fy6aca25930621c161@mail.gmail.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:07:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429CFB2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO That's the look I was talking about. The chemise neck has a small ruffle, but it's not a big ruff. Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Alexandria Doyle Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:48 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. > > > I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and > have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years > either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn > in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to > find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a > lot of you are interested in this period. > > Suzi > > > I don't have the book to hand, that whole at work thing, but I do > recall some needleworks showing ladies about the garden that while > they have the high neck/partlet/ruff on and it's allowed to fall open > at the neck, creating a bit of a different look. If that helps I can > scan a copy in, in an hour or two, Alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 20:14:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T1E2v7007052 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:14:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T1EEAw006905; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:14:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T1CHuZ056078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:12:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T1CAla057056; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:12:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T1C6iB056948 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:12:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC53A65CF for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:11:55 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4429DF10.8080109@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:12:48 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cheap books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:14:17 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429DF66.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thought I would share this source for discounted titles: http://www.bookcloseouts.com They have a number of books on textiles, rugs, embroideries, blankets, etc. as well as art and history titles also useful in costume research. And everything seems to be in the 40%-75% off retail range! Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 22:00:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T30Wqb011631 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:00:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T30hvV017721; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:00:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T30NUj066565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:00:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T30KGk033348; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:00:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T30Gh4033303 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:00:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m6.in-tch.com [216.166.191.6]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2T2pCA29638 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:51:13 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <010f01c652dd$ee4fe020$06bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:07:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:00:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 4429F85B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'd say a doublet would be your best choice, if it didn't fall into the verboten "closed up neckline" category. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:22 PM Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. > > I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an > English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a > ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. > > I don't want Italian - I have Moda a Firenze. (and want to make > something from it, but it would not be right - boo!) I have checked > the two Clouet databases in the French "Joconde" system, which are > drool worthy, but unhelpful. I have checked www.marquise.de, "My > Gracious Silence", Vecellio et al, plus postcards and books till I > don't know what I am seeing. > > I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and > have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years > either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn > in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to > find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a > lot of you are interested in this period. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 22:37:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T3bhjJ012697 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:37:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T3bsxX012050; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:37:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T3bX43069729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:37:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T3bVKI058011; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T3bR3Y057893 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:37:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.376.57c0e8 (4230) for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:37:17 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:37:16 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:37:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A0112.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/28/2006 3:24:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, althea@alfalfapress.com writes: http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! There are several small errors or sort-of-but-not-quite truths here. Do you have a basic textile science book? For example: The linen-rayon blends are generally cheaper than 100% linen. They are a good compromise if necessary. They have the added benefit of making the fabric less wrinkle prone. This statement is just not true. While linen does crease badly, rayon wrinkles like crazy. Besides, I don't recall seeing this particular blend. Cotton/linen, yes, and polyester/rayon (your "linen look"), yes. Also, your discussion of flammability of manmade fibers vs natural ones; woolen/worsted. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 23:33:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4Xf3W015320 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:33:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T4Xq7M018104; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:33:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4XI0n075253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:33:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4XE5p096330; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:33:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4XAMd096231 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:33:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2T4X5605950 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:33:05 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> References: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <7E45D0C0-C9DC-408C-82B1-7F2B8291FA9F@alfalfapress.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:33:02 -0800 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:33:56 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A0E30.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Ann! thanks for the comments! :D On Mar 28, 2006, at 7:37 PM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote > This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! > There are several small errors or sort-of-but-not-quite truths > here. Do you > have a basic textile science book? > Actually several. :D > For example: > > > The linen-rayon blends are generally cheaper than 100% linen. They > are a > good compromise if necessary. They have the added benefit of making > the fabric > less wrinkle prone. > > This statement is just not true. While linen does crease badly, rayon > wrinkles like crazy. Besides, I don't recall seeing this > particular blend. > Cotton/linen, yes, and polyester/rayon (your "linen look"), yes. > Our local Joanne's carries a linen/ rayon blend (currently on sale 30% off) and from experience with the fabric, it does wrinkle less. I've found the wrinkly-ness of rayon is dependent on the type of fabric. Rayon crepe can be worn for days with nary a wrinkle, but challis can wrinkle if you look at it crossly. > Also, your discussion of flammability of manmade fibers vs natural > ones; > woolen/worsted. > Not really sure what you mean here. Polyester and Nylon are much more flammable than natural fibers. And they do melt when burned. "Flammable" might not be the exact technical term, but it's a word everyone understands. The info on the worsted/ woolen is straight from of my books on textiles. If it is wrong, I'd be happy to change it. This guide is intended for folks who know NOTHING about fabrics and want to make good choices when venturing into the scary territory of a fabric store. I want to keep it extremely basic, but give suggestions so they steer clear of really bad fabric decisions. Thanks for the input! Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." William of Conches, 12th century _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 23:39:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4dGKL015455 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:39:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T4dSLo021530; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:39:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4d0w1075939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:39:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4cwGO000366; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:38:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4csrs000265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:38:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FOSSN-0005m8-BE; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:38:55 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:38:55 -0500 Message-ID: <20060328233855.exa5espwwsgkkgwc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:38:55 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] quickie textile guide References: <001f01c652bd$d2d7ea60$0300a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <001f01c652bd$d2d7ea60$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:39:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A0F80.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Very nice! I'm not a sewing "noob" but I don't have any experience with linen and silk, and very little with wool. :-) Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 23:40:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4esYd015506 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:40:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T4f5P1006743; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:41:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4edA3076123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:40:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4ed39001543; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:40:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2T4eZkH001447 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:40:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 98847 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2006 04:40:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2006 04:40:29 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060329052422.01e08df0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:24:52 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <870801590603281547j744646fy6aca25930621c161@mail.gmail.com > References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> <001e01c652bd$68eda860$0300a8c0@bob3pc> <870801590603281547j744646fy6aca25930621c161@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:41:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A0FE1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 00:47 29/03/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and > > have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years > > either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn > > in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to > > find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a > > lot of you are interested in this period. > > > > Suzi > > > > > > I don't have the book to hand, that whole at work thing, but I do recall > > some needleworks showing ladies about the garden that while they have the > > high neck/partlet/ruff on and it's allowed to fall open at the neck, > > creating a bit of a different look. If that helps I can scan a copy in, > > in an hour or two, Thanks but we already have a version of that. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Mar 28 23:43:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4hGfr015685 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:43:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T4hS6t024093; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:43:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4hFxv076325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:43:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4hE5m003282; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:43:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4hBFu003156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:43:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1FOSWW-0006HS-D5; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:43:12 -0600 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:43:12 -0500 Message-ID: <20060328234312.64ve220y04wsoog4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:43:12 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide References: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:43:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A1070.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting AnnBWass@aol.com: *snippage* > >> The linen-rayon blends are generally cheaper than 100% linen. They are a >> good compromise if necessary. They have the added benefit of making >> the fabric >> less wrinkle prone. > > This statement is just not true. While linen does crease badly, rayon > wrinkles like crazy. Besides, I don't recall seeing this particular blend. > Cotton/linen, yes, and polyester/rayon (your "linen look"), yes. Really. I've got about 15 yards of rayon/linen blend. Has a *very* nice hand to it. Got it at Hancocks on the $2.00/yard table. :-) 10 yards of yellow, 5 of light green (or is it the other way around!) Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 00:16:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T5G6ZQ017571 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:16:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T5GH0S011555; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:16:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T5G4x9079550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:16:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T5G24c024914; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:16:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T5FmX7024742 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:15:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=afcP3XQ77qYbXZdqw2uRk6kmmFKn5mQVzsq0X2g/WxN2Pj2G7BogtQsw+PYxidMz; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.155.57.25] (helo=HELENPINTO) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FOT22-0005t3-JF for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:15:47 -0500 Message-ID: <00a301c652ef$d3b6ed00$19399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:15:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b6d298311edb92ac7303e825560e24f66350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.25 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:16:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A1821.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Ann wrote: > The linen-rayon blends are generally cheaper than 100% linen. They are a > good compromise if necessary. They have the added benefit of making the > fabric > less wrinkle prone. > This statement is just not true. While linen does crease badly, rayon > wrinkles like crazy. Besides, I don't recall seeing this particular > blend. > Cotton/linen, yes, and polyester/rayon (your "linen look"), yes. There are plenty of linen/rayon blends out there; I could buy more right now, if I wasn't still working from my stash. I've been making clothes from both linen/rayon and cotton/linen blends since the 1970's. Adding either fibre to the linen doesn't eliminate the wrinkles, but it does greatly soften the creases, in proportion to the mix. (80/20 blends are crisper than 50/50 blends) The prices on blends are less than on 100% linen, and usually increase as the percentage of linen goes up. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 03:26:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T8QUR6012090 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:26:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T8Qfgn020309; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:26:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T8Q3i4097407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:26:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T8PRY2045697; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:25:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail4.tpgi.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T8PM7i045661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:25:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-220-152-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.220.152]) by mail4.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2T8PKaU024955 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:25:21 +1100 Message-ID: <002d01c6530a$70857290$98dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:26:11 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:26:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A44C1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:22 AM Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. > > I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an > English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a ruff, or > a partlet, or a closed up neckline. > What about this portrait http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/DevereuxSisters.JPG you can find a brief biography of the subjects at http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/DEVEREUX.htm it's dated 1581, so it's a little outside your time period but it's all I could find maybe they were behind the fashion? Though with Lettice Knollys as their mother I'd doubt it. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 04:11:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T9BMhc021484 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:11:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2T9BXE3014315; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:11:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T9BNIB002242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:11:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T9BMxu071216; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:11:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail-07.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-07.bluehost.com [67.138.240.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2T9BIVm071173 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:11:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from g.vinje@drakt.org) Received: (qmail 24488 invoked by uid 0); 29 Mar 2006 09:11:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box77.bluehost.com) (70.103.189.77) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2006 09:11:13 -0000 Received: from 41.80-202-169.nextgentel.com ([80.202.169.41] helo=acer) by box77.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FOWhs-00058J-W3 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:11:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:10:45 +0200 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide References: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> From: "G.Vinje" Organization: privat Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/7.54 (Win32, build 3865) X-Identified-User: {515:box77.bluehost.com:draktorg:drakt.org} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 80.202.169.41 authed with drakt.org} Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:11:36 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A4F45.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 12:23:54 -0800, Althea Turner wrote: > I have a friend who is not allowed to go to the fabric store without a > keeper. :D She knows nothing about fabrics and likes shiny bright SHINY > fabrics, which are rarely a natural fiber. You must have met a friend of mine. She with the marked weakness for above mentioned fabrics with lots and lots of 19thC flower patterns. I'll pass this on to her as she does high medieval before timetravel was invented. :-) I'd throw in something about polyester in the wool section. Never buy wool with more than 30% polyester for one thing. And telling the difference between polyester and wool. Not easy at all. I have a few fabrics from the famous polyester sheep. The weave and colors are perfect. I just didn't know how to tell the better polyester from wool when I started out. And if you get around to it, a short list of when you used some of the shiny beautiful synthetic fabrics. Which 60's/80's ? 1360's, 1460's or 1960's/80's ? :-) Gunvor -- "Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov" Anders (nesten 4 år) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 05:36:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TAZpRv006469 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:35:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TAa0kF031903; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:36:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TAZISH008743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TAZ9NG019423; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:35:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2TAZ5El019343 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:35:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 81595 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2006 10:34:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2006 10:34:59 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060329113210.01df9c20@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:35:06 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <002d01c6530a$70857290$98dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> <002d01c6530a$70857290$98dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:36:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A6311.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 09:26 29/03/2006, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:22 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. > > >> >>I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of >>an English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either >>a ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. > >What about this portrait >http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/DevereuxSisters.JPG you can find >a brief biography of the subjects at >http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/DEVEREUX.htm it's dated 1581, so it's a >little outside your time period but it's all I could find maybe they >were behind the fashion? Though with Lettice Knollys as their mother >I'd doubt it. >Elizabeth I think a possible reason for the bare neck is that Dorothy is only 17 at the time of the painting. The Francois Clouet portraits on the Joconde site seem to have a similar age differential. Younger girls have nothing in the neck there either, or a long strand of some jewellery across the collar bones. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 06:14:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBE1Mb015947 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:14:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TBEDcN021840; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:14:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBDlNV011561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:13:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBDjeD041402; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:13:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBDgXp041341 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:13:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.236.9700f0a (39331) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:13:33 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <236.9700f0a.315bc5dd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:13:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:14:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A6C05.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 3/28/2006 11:43:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: Really. I've got about 15 yards of rayon/linen blend. Has a *very* nice hand to it. Got it at Hancocks on the $2.00/yard table. :-) 10 yards of yellow, 5 of light green (or is it the other way around!) I stand corrected. I shouldn't have made that comment, I guess, as I haven't cruised the chain fabric aisles lately. When I did work at Hancock, poly/rayon was the thing, but that was a while ago. Last time I bought "linen", it was at a store in New York that only sold the real thing, and that was all they sold. However, I think I'm safe on the wrinkle part. I suspect that rayon is being used to blend for cost (it is a really cheap fiber), and, perhaps, for hand, as you point out. Rayon DOES drape well, and takes dyes well, but this also does mean it wrinkles. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 06:52:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBqZO8023477 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:52:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TBqkZJ010631; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:52:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBqOP0015384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:52:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBqGnl065418; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:52:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBqCvZ065331 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:52:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.363.ba202c (48600) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:52:02 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <363.ba202c.315bcee2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:52:02 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: More rhapsodising about the Tudor Tailor X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:52:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A750E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Mine arrived yesterday too (was late ordering it), and it is very good (from what I've read so far). Saw some of the out fits at the re-enactors market a couple of weeks agao, and they look as good close up as in the pics. Debbie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 06:55:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TBthQA024154 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:55:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TBtspZ012320; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:55:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T94ldv001579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:04:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T94jHF067578; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:04:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2T94evl067482 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:04:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 5406 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2006 09:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2006 09:04:35 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060329100231.01e01bd0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:04:38 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <002d01c6530a$70857290$98dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> <002d01c6530a$70857290$98dcf5dc@user4712b7d135> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:55:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442A75CA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 09:26 29/03/2006, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:22 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. > > >> >>I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of >>an English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either >>a ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. > >What about this portrait >http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/DevereuxSisters.JPG you can find >a brief biography of the subjects at >http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/DEVEREUX.htm it's dated 1581, so it's a >little outside your time period but it's all I could find maybe they >were behind the fashion? Though with Lettice Knollys as their mother >I'd doubt it. >Elizabeth I know that picture - I've seen it in real life. And I didn't remember that one sister had an open neck. Brilliant - thank you. I shall go and look back through my photos I actually took a photo of it - the room is lined with gilded Spanish Leather! (Makes a change from wallpaper!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 10:00:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TF05Xs013423 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:00:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TF0EKB013505; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:00:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TEwCO3047931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:58:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TEw5rf096912; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:58:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TEw1F6096842 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:58:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m5.in-tch.com [216.166.191.5]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2TEmwA27887 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:48:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <006301c65342$335fc860$05bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <236.9700f0a.315bc5dd@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:05:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:00:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442AA0FE.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I've got rayon/linen blends, 100 % linen, and linen/cotton blends, and I really don't notice that much of a difference in the wrinkling between them, whether that's folds that occur during storage, or wrinkles from washing and drying, or from use. The main difference seems to be in the hand of the fabrics--linen being most crisp, whatever its weight, and rayon blend the least (very soft, drapey), and the cotton blend closer to the linen. I generally prefer to purchase 100% linen, but sometimes go with the linen/rayon blends when it gets really cheap at my local fabric store (we only have a JoAnn's...closest Hancock's is out of state). --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 4:13 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide > > In a message dated 3/28/2006 11:43:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: > > Really. I've got about 15 yards of rayon/linen blend. Has a *very* > nice hand to it. Got it at Hancocks on the $2.00/yard table. :-) 10 > yards of yellow, 5 of light green (or is it the other way around!) > > > > > I stand corrected. I shouldn't have made that comment, I guess, as I > haven't cruised the chain fabric aisles lately. When I did work at Hancock, > poly/rayon was the thing, but that was a while ago. > > Last time I bought "linen", it was at a store in New York that only sold the > real thing, and that was all they sold. > > However, I think I'm safe on the wrinkle part. I suspect that rayon is > being used to blend for cost (it is a really cheap fiber), and, perhaps, for > hand, as you point out. Rayon DOES drape well, and takes dyes well, but this > also does mean it wrinkles. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 10:12:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TFC63r013853 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:12:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TFCHOf025524; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:12:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TFBudu053542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TFBsqx009725; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:11:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TFBokg009624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.33] (69-171-202-42.sbtnvt.adelphia.net [69.171.202.42]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TFBkLE013660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:11:47 -0500 Message-ID: <442AA303.3050501@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:51 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide References: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:12:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442AA3D2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO What a great guide for new sewers! I did wonder about a couple of things: - the muslin/calico thing: I believe in England the use of the terms is the reverse of what it is here in the States. That may not be an issue for the people you will be handing this to, but you may want to note that for people who find your guide online - I've usually seen batiste, cambric, and lawn as terms applied to cottons but not linens - (not a comment about the guide--just a question for the group, out of curiosity) do many people use 5-7oz linen for shifts? Just curious--I always use the 3.5 oz linen from fabrics-store.com... - lately many of the online fabric stores (Joann's too) have been selling cotton twill, which is a better weight for pants/tunics than broadcloth, if one absolutely must go with cotton instead of wool. Might be worth a mention. - might want to warn them that if they use tropical weight wool for garments they may need to be lined - shantung is a tough one. From some stores, the shantung is very close to dupioni (a sheen, and fewer slubs). In others, it's closer to a noile (no sheen). - dupioni vs. noile: putting these together might really confuse new folks. Dupioni tends to be shinier and look more like "silk" to the untrained eye, while noile tends to look more like a cotton. - silk organza is showing up in quite a few places now. Do you want to mention it? - how about cotton velvet vs. rayon velvet vs velveteen: another one that confuses people whew! I hope that's not too much--just some musings... - Hope AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html > This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 11:22:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TGMfR1017335 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:22:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TGMqxr027702; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:22:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TGMJdW066400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:22:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TGMDex074119; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:22:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rocky.itasca.net (exim@polly.itasca.net [12.157.198.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TGM8sR074037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:22:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pixel@itasca.net) Received: from pixel (helo=localhost) by itasca.net with local-esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FOdNi-00068v-9d for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:18:50 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:18:50 -0600 (CST) From: Cat Dancer X-X-Sender: pixel@rocky.itasca.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide In-Reply-To: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> Message-ID: References: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Itasca-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: pixel@itasca.net Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:22:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442AB45C.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > > http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html > > This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! > Althea > > > Althea Turner You should probably note that China silk is also called habotai, depending on who's selling it. I noticed that you have crepe de chine listed with China silk and chiffon--it really should have its own category. Crepe de chine is woven with tightly twisted threads so it has a fairly flat luster and a 'pebbly' texture. It's also usually heavier than chiffon or habotai. Drapes beautifully, not sure if it's SCA period in the slightest. Not sure if you want to mention gabardine at all--poly gab is visually indistinguishable from wool gab. Pixel/Margaret _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 14:21:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TJLM9r023846 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:21:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TJLX1o007028; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:21:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TJL01f093974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:21:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TJKk9K053157; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:20:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TJKgdd053116 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:20:42 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.54.159 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:20:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.54.159] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> <442AA303.3050501@uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:20:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:20:39 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Mar 2006 19:20:42.0537 (UTC) FILETIME=[DF095190:01C65365] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:21:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442ADE3D.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2TJLM9r023846 Status: RO A good idea! The one thing I noticed missing was upholstery fabric, which tends to be extremely popular around here for the various brocade patterns. The fabric content of these can be really crazy and, unlike cloth for clothes, I don't think they're legally required to disclose it. There's also woven patterns vs. printed patterns to be aware of and the question of weight. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 16:46:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLkiFC028541 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:46:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TLktXM023366; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:46:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLk4nH013878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:46:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLk1Eh088786; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2SNfpVT080217 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:41:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 18621 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2006 15:41:06 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 18569, pid: 18592, t: 6.1427s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp4 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2006 15:41:00 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060328153233.0248dd18@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:41:33 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Spanish California Women's Costume In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp4.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:46:59 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B004F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 10:50 AM 3/28/2006, you wrote: > >I am interested in finding information on Women's fashion from 1840 to 1850 > >Ranchero life prior to the Gold Rush in 49. Particularly the dress that > >would be worn for fandangos for married women. > > >Anyone got info or urls? > >Rachael, >Call your local state historical park. Most of the volunteer assns are >very helpful to newcomers. In particular, try Peralta Adobe in SJ, San >Juan Bautista SHP and most especially Fort Ross. Many will have >reference lists. >Or read "Two Years Before the Mast". He'll tell you what he saw 1st person. >Check the h-cost archives under "Californio" & fandango. >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com > Or you can call Sutter's Fort in Sacramento. (I'm a docent there.) Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 16:48:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLmEE0028586 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TLmQTK024776; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLm8J9014243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:48:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLm7S7090934; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:48:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2T5TOhv033401 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:29:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 1807 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2006 21:28:39 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 1758, pid: 1788, t: 5.9867s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1306 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp4 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2006 21:28:33 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060328212645.0249ce50@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:29:05 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <010f01c652dd$ee4fe020$06bfa6d8@pavilion> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> <010f01c652dd$ee4fe020$06bfa6d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp4.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:29 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B00AA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Why would the "closed up neckline" be 'verboten'? I wear a high-bodied gown (doublet style) closed all the way up. Made with the proper fabrics (linen for the shift, etc.), it's perfectly comfortable. Joan in Sacramento, CA At 07:07 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote: >I'd say a doublet would be your best choice, if it didn't fall into the >verboten "closed up neckline" category. >--Sue > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Suzi Clarke" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:22 PM >Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. > > > > > > I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an > > English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a > > ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. > > > > I don't want Italian - I have Moda a Firenze. (and want to make > > something from it, but it would not be right - boo!) I have checked > > the two Clouet databases in the French "Joconde" system, which are > > drool worthy, but unhelpful. I have checked www.marquise.de, "My > > Gracious Silence", Vecellio et al, plus postcards and books till I > > don't know what I am seeing. > > > > I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and > > have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years > > either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn > > in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to > > find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a > > lot of you are interested in this period. > > > > Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 16:48:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLm7kI028581 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TLmJc1015648; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLlqqB014184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:47:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLlqU3090634; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:47:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2T4glnA002901 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:42:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB786A65BF for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:42:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <442A1077.9060307@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:43:35 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide References: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <376.57c0e8.315b5aec@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B00A3.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > >> The linen-rayon blends are generally cheaper than 100% linen. They are a >> good compromise if necessary. They have the added benefit of making the fabric >> less wrinkle prone. > > This statement is just not true. While linen does crease badly, rayon > wrinkles like crazy. Besides, I don't recall seeing this particular blend. > Cotton/linen, yes, and polyester/rayon (your "linen look"), yes. > FWIW, I have several bolts and pieces of linen-rayon in my stash. Fabric.com sells it from time to time, and I see a lot of it on the 'dollar' aisle at Joann's and Hancocks chain stores. My experience with it is that while it does wrinkle, it's much easier to iron out afterward than 100% linen. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 16:48:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLmD74028585 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TLmP7I002969; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLm2tE014218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:48:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLm1nN090814; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:48:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2T4gxcl003023 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:43:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 96329 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2006 04:42:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2006 04:42:53 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060329054051.01d903b8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:42:05 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <001e01c652bd$68eda860$0300a8c0@bob3pc> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> <001e01c652bd$68eda860$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B00A9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 00:14 29/03/2006, you wrote: >In one of my groups, one of the ladies has a doublet style bodice, but she >wears it open, sort of like a modern shirt, so it forms a "V" at the neck. >She doesn't wear a partlet, just a chemise, which is also open, over the >doublet, so that the underside of the chemise shows. Hope this makes sense. >I tried to get a pic, but it wouldn't copy. If you want more info, I'll ask >if it's ok to post the site where we have pics. >Sharon Thanks Sharon, but I know what you mean, and can find that kind of image. It's the naked neck I can't find. I don't think it exists in the art of the period, at least not that I can find. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 16:49:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLnpcb028638 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:49:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TLo3hu026578; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:50:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLnk76014615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:49:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLnjIj092846; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:49:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TH2otX012579 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:03:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.123] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.123]) by BAY0-SMTP08.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:02:45 -0800 Message-ID: <442ABDB4.5060103@msn.com> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:02:44 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Red Dutch coat Was: Dutch 1660s fur jacket References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Mar 2006 17:02:45.0607 (UTC) FILETIME=[999A0770:01C65352] X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:50:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B010B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Whoops, now I see the photo on your home page, but can't find the one I was refereeing to. You are standing in some sort of encampment with your little dutch cap on. Are those the same? Your stays almost look shiny...the other I thought looked sort of woolly. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 17:13:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TMDZd7029470 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:13:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TMDlTt016828; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:13:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TMDPm2017676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:13:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TMDOqx015088; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:13:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2TMDJvf014908 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:13:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 69203 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2006 22:13:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2006 22:13:07 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060329225830.01e09cb0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:13:13 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060328212645.0249ce50@surewest.net> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1> <010f01c652dd$ee4fe020$06bfa6d8@pavilion> <7.0.1.0.2.20060328212645.0249ce50@surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:13:50 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B069B.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 06:29 29/03/2006, you wrote: >Why would the "closed up neckline" be 'verboten'? I wear a >high-bodied gown (doublet style) closed all the way up. Made with >the proper fabrics (linen for the shift, etc.), it's perfectly comfortable. When you work for other people, as I do, you go with what they want. They are paying money to wear what they want. You may well be perfectly comfortable is a doublet bodice. My customer does not want that style. The other five ladies all have open necklines, and my customer wants a similar style, but would prefer not to wear a ruff or partlet. My job is to do the research and produce the goods. I was therefore asking if anyone could help with my research. It does not matter to me what other people choose to wear - that is their personal choice. My own choice is a loose gown, but I would not try to persuade a customer to wear one if they did not like it. The "closed-up neckline" is only "verboten" as far as this customer is concerned. Suzi >> > >> > I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an >> > English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a >> > ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. >> > >> > I don't want Italian - I have Moda a Firenze. (and want to make >> > something from it, but it would not be right - boo!) I have checked >> > the two Clouet databases in the French "Joconde" system, which are >> > drool worthy, but unhelpful. I have checked www.marquise.de, "My >> > Gracious Silence", Vecellio et al, plus postcards and books till I >> > don't know what I am seeing. >> > >> > I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and >> > have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years >> > either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn >> > in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to >> > find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a >> > lot of you are interested in this period. >> > >> > Suzi > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 18:41:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TNfdnL032505 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:41:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TNfpeq009246; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:41:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TNfNnJ029894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:41:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TNfBen094218; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:41:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52115.mail.yahoo.com (web52115.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2TNf9LH094086 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:41:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 68910 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2006 23:41:04 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EMWLQ8Ll8kOETpt2fLdhL3oNIenrrJs0FZ2HpXbp3JNRKHBL47WtKRxjYWVqZowevbku/K3C0jGj11wyuHgMzuiiSE22nOaPV4A9DtZpMj3PjCcoa4OL2ox04Zcpl4oOVI+RSTAPsPHkxlVVljx7Uwxfi+NqPOqdhRNRGvdeHMw= ; Message-ID: <20060329234104.68908.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:41:04 EST Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:41:04 -0500 (EST) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200603292144.k2TLikno087515@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Venetian research question - need help X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:41:54 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B1B3F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi Rachel, welcome to the list. :-) I can nod gravely with the "been there, done that" expression on my face. I have been slowly, slowly digging into Venetian mask wearing and making for a few years now. I've written a couple of SCA A&S papers on it, if you are interested in comparing what I have to what you have collected. http://outoftheattic.homeip.net/Venetian_Masks.html I ran into the same brick walls you did. There was one grad listed on some university site somewhere that did her senior thesis on Venetian masks, but I have yet to figure out how to make contact with her. I find that a lot of Italian, particularly Venetian historical documents are few and far in between, and even less written in English. One needs to have a working knowledge of Latin Italian *and* access to the documents in question before one gets anywhere. And thus far, every attempt I have made to locate primary source materials in Italy have failed. The Italians just don't respond. This is not to discourage you, but giving you an idea of what you are up against. I am all *too* happy to pool resources and come up with something that we would be satisfied with. Basically, you'll likely have to get used to the statement "I don't know yet, but I'm working on it", until you weed out what you are looking for. Kathy > The problem comes in when I'm researching Venetian > masking traditions > PRIOR to the 1600's. I�d like to offer a �brief > history of� handout and > I�m running into all kinds of problems. I've run > across a number of > masking sources on the internet, professional > suppliers, amateur sites and > so on that give a very romantic view of the masking > tradition, but don't > supply any bibliography. > So my question is � does anyone have ANY idea on a > reputable scholastic > source for Venetian masking traditions prior to the > 17th century? Is > there maybe a database out there with medieval > Venetian law codes that I > can tear through or maybe a recognized scholarly > authority SOMEWHERE on > the subject? Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 18:57:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TNvfRR000733 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:57:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2TNvqZ3019405; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:57:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TNvOdm031947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:57:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TNvLRj008718; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:57:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TNvIoO008662 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:57:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n1so519778nzf for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:17 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=nN9C7opU2y2K+Vr/3mqh7SVEo+TnOE/gB2OuNv9yaWCpYekvDioQYTjrXPP0IRclm9G+iQj/S4wAH4qFPRXO8mdUiilCaFlVrHI23qVljGgxxtOL1jA6elIpnUQjXIrVHXq0A9fnvYskUlgFaGO2JvkoxFFvJT8z3SucN85xU+M= Received: by 10.64.112.8 with SMTP id k8mr183620qbc; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:57:16 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2TNvIoO008662 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:57:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B1F00.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 12:22 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote: >I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an >English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a ruff, or >a partlet, or a closed up neckline. Here ya go Suzi, I've got Arabella Stuart as a child c1577, Eliz I's greatniece IIRC, with what looks like a Peter Pan collar. Cant tell if it's a partlet or smock. Not exactly French, not exactly "woman", yet. "Catherine de Médicis, reine de France (1519-1589), représentée au moment de son arrivée en France - Corneille de Lyons Versailles" which means I probably found it on a French site. Undated. "Marguerite de Valois, Enfant - Francois Clouet - 3eme quartier du 16eme siecle". Also undated. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 19:21:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0LpjT001526 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:21:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U0M2i6003023; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:22:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0LMDS035037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:21:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0LIXR028663; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:21:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0Kw6G028425 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:21:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n1so527205nzf for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:20:53 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=mPcpDH5ZsRpPEfh9+rLUMwM+tYyWClp6pAWSszJXZkIDSyLmRMYAqbzF/ohH3uV2LJW39U/lPI8k/qOiINvg3W26aVhj39klQG/chbqoEUVTzKb/kytz/N10nNz9ncvisZIShR3w6V6O+AcBEXcbuRxgptsmlwybY1xCGRUPGiM= Received: by 10.65.219.8 with SMTP id w8mr187400qbq; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:20:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:20:53 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2U0Kw6G028425 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Spanish California Women's Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:22:05 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B24AA.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >>Call your local state historical park. Most of the volunteer assns are >>very helpful to newcomers. ... Many will have reference lists. >Or you can call Sutter's Fort in Sacramento. (I'm a docent there.) >Joan Jurancich Why didnt I think of that?! Yes, Sutter's has absolutely one of the best re-enactment programs in the state. They do an awesome job. When I was head of the volunteer assn at San Juan Bautista, the Sutter's Fort team courteously hosted (and hostessed) 4 of us to a wonderful "backstage" tour. They were very warm & sharing of all their info & sources. IIRC, One of the most interesting things they do is to all choose exactly one day that they are recreating, so if it's really 30 Mar, then it will be 30 Mar 1848. This means they're all talking about the same local events, fashions, people, & world news as they speak to visitors & each other. It's a great experience. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 19:34:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0YHb3002028 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:34:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U0YTVF010856; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:34:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0XoF4036443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:33:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0XlO9038079; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:33:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f11.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.21]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0XhmC038020 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:33:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from morvren@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:33:42 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.200 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:33:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.146.119.139] X-Originating-Email: [morvren@hotmail.com] X-Sender: morvren@hotmail.com From: "Maureen Conklin" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:33:40 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2006 00:33:42.0102 (UTC) FILETIME=[98878760:01C65391] Subject: [h-cost] OT(?): for whoever was seeking Eowyn fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:34:32 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B2795.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Here's one that was used in a very successful recreation of the Green Gown: http://tinyurl.com/mlowh Not an exact match for the film fabric, but very lovely. :-) ~ M. ================== ~ Twinkle, dammit! ~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 19:47:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U0l62K002292 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:47:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U0lHc3019124; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:47:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLoPQW014802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLoPXo093610; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:50:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2TLDt3r059279 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:13:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so272332nzp for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:13:52 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=TDwSvmtUEjnCSQ85ZZ6EgpxHZlcswBv0QXfh9LnB4rE1XlZsubd4gmvuYr4nupgNkn1frmPtO2oPh0mpi/wX4yGWmae5AYlidTkIWBl0pYL3pTEqEfdZBm7YdCCmtbU0vVFhokm4pN4o80gjP0cPrf12BxKnuA8WNuCdnTFUjL0= Received: by 10.65.75.1 with SMTP id c1mr172729qbl; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.3.5 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:13:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:13:51 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2TLDt3r059279 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:47:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B2A95.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO > http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html > > This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! > Althea Turner Nice start! Velvet as you say, is a weave, but not just in silk. There is cotton, usually called unwaled corduroy, tho it's relatively rare these days as is silk velvet. Wool velvet is called plush. No, I dont know why. Silks can be sorted by whole thread and partial thread fibers. Worms generate a thread, sometimes several, which varies thruout the coccoon in quality & length. Noil is the short bits of the silk thread formerly considered too poor for pure silk weaves. Other silks are "whole thread". Silks can also be sorted by wild vs cultivated moths. Most cultivated silk comes from a single species whose name I have forgotten. Habotai tabby and highest-quality satins are made with the smooth, fine end of this thread. Next, there are the silk categories those of raw silks, processed silks and blends. Shantung is made with processed, whole thread wild tussah worm output. IIRC, Pongee is made with coarse end, raw tussah silk. Dupioni is naturally double stranded silk from domesticated worms. Thai silk is usually shot shantung. Finally there are the various finishing techniques used to crisp or add uniform shine to a fabric. Wash a shantung and you see the difference the finishing technique makes. I know almost nothing about factory finishes & glazes for fabric. Perhaps someone else does. That's just a little about the unspun, unwoven, undyed, finished silk. There's more, of course. You'll probably enjoy the research process. I did. All that said, the names of fabrics change over the years and even the experts will argue over what exact fiber+weave+treatment+finish combo is cambric, damask, brocade and all those other materials we think we know. Damned marketeers. Back to your doc: Way up at the top, you mention scrunching fabric in your hand. Yes, do this, but breathe on the scrunched handful. Keep scrunching maybe 1 min. Drop the fabric & notice how wrinkly it is. Walk away for 5 mins. When you come back, notice whether the scrunched bit is less wrinkley. This will give you some indication of it's pressing characteristics. Down at the bottom you mention "in period". I dont know who you are writing for, but "in period" means different things to different groups. For example, Whitey's Lindy Hoppers would consider rayon "in period". Victorian re-enactors might look up the "artificial silk" patent filed in 1855. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 20:22:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1M1Cd002931 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:22:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U1MDa3010222; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:22:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1LfEh040906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:21:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1Lbh8072853; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:21:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([216.17.243.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1LX7m072694 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:21:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from raelee@rachelsampsel.com) Received: from crom (dhcp12 [172.16.5.12]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k2U1qB625068 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:52:12 -0700 Message-Id: <200603300152.k2U1qB625068@localhost.localdomain> From: "raelee" To: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:30:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Thread-Index: AcZTehiSQt5IZLJOSy2SEUW+DmonhAAHJ+kg In-Reply-To: <200603292147.k2TLl0OM089823@net.indra.com> Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Venetian Masking X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:22:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B32C5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:47:21 -0800 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Venetian research question - need help To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <001b01c652b9$93486360$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm curious. Are you making a plaster mold to then cover in whatever the mask is made of? What do you use for the base (to build upon)? Sharon, who has made masks, with difficulty, because I didn't have a good base :) Patches writes: I've got 2 methods and neither are what the pro shops use. Method 1 that I show folks is to build the mask directly on the face using plaster. This obviously requires a partner. Method 2 is like method 1 only a encase the face in plaster to make a negative mold, seal up the holes, lubricate the inside and then pour about 3/4 gal plaster mix into the negative. Then letting it set for 24 hours and peeling it out of the negative mold. Both methods allow for a mask that fits the face of the model, but not anyone else's. The masks that get built can be shaped with protrusions and etc. quite easily on the face mold with a little planning. I cover my masks with fabric rather than paint b/c I think it looks better and it make things easier for me to sew my decorations on as much as possible (I try to use only a minimum of glue.). The pro shops first make the entire mask in solid clay, so their original bust can weigh up to about 5-10lbs. Once the sculpture is complete, it is encased in a special box and plaster is poured in to fill the whole box. When the plaster has set, the plaster box is removed and the clay cleaned out, revealing a negative in the block. They then pour a glue and paper mix in to the negative and press it into the negative form with their hands and I suspect a special tool that allows them to press a uniform backing into the mask. Once the mask has set, it is popped out, trimmed and decorated. If you would like, I can send you a handout on the plaster and decoration technique that I use. I've got them drafted up already for the workshops, so sending the file isn't a big deal. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 20:28:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1SMwQ003070 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:28:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U1SY6e013930; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:28:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1Qkjl041339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:26:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1QhcX076335; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:26:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1Qc6Z076266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:26:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-212-20-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.212.20]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2U1QZbE009434 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:26:37 +1100 Message-ID: <007d01c65399$1c307fc0$14d4f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7CA93FBE-C3D6-433E-B328-215B62C8141C@alfalfapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:27:27 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:28:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B3442.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'd add Taffeta to the list of silk fabrics and add a warning that most of the time if you see satin, taffeta, velvet etc. in your local fabric shop they aren't actually silk and you must check the labels. Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Althea Turner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:23 AM Subject: [h-cost] quickie textile guide > Hey all, > I have a friend who is not allowed to go to the fabric store without a > keeper. :D She knows nothing about fabrics and likes shiny bright SHINY > fabrics, which are rarely a natural fiber. So with her in mind, I am > working on a quick guide that she, and others, can print out. I am sure > I am leaving out important information so if you could check it out and > let me know, I'd greatly appreciate it. The intended audience is > re-enactors without much experience with fabrics or sewing. > > http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html > > This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! > Althea > > > Althea Turner > althea@alfalfapress.com > > "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company > in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they > want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." > William of Conches, 12th century > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 27/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 20:35:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1Z68e003151 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:35:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U1ZI91018572; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:35:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1Z2kc042097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:35:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U1Z0Rx082079; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:35:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2U1Yvac082030 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 9228 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2006 17:34:57 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 9205, pid: 9221, t: 1.9208s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1361 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2006 17:34:55 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329173341.023a43e0@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:34:42 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Spanish California Women's Costume In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:35:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B35D6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO At 04:20 PM 3/29/2006, you wrote: > >>Call your local state historical park. Most of the volunteer assns are > >>very helpful to newcomers. ... Many will have reference lists. > > >Or you can call Sutter's Fort in Sacramento. (I'm a docent there.) > >Joan Jurancich > >Why didnt I think of that?! Yes, Sutter's has absolutely one of the >best re-enactment programs in the state. They do an awesome job. When >I was head of the volunteer assn at San Juan Bautista, the Sutter's >Fort team courteously hosted (and hostessed) 4 of us to a wonderful >"backstage" tour. They were very warm & sharing of all their info & >sources. > >IIRC, One of the most interesting things they do is to all choose >exactly one day that they are recreating, so if it's really 30 Mar, >then it will be 30 Mar 1848. This means they're all talking about the >same local events, fashions, people, & world news as they speak to >visitors & each other. It's a great experience. >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com Actually, we are reenacting 1846, but we do try to keep to the calendar date. Thanks for the kind words. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 22:22:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3MlW8005028 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:22:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U3Mwit022099; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:23:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3MHpF053697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:22:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3MA2u056929; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:22:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3M7l1056882 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@NETSCAPE.COM) Received: from dm27.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27EE0402F8 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:22:07 -0800 (PST) X-Eon-Dm: dm27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060329192207.4892D32E@resin01.mta.everyone.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:22:07 -0800 (PST) From: " Lalah" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venetian Masking X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nREK07fLX07YQEAAAAB,da0124a678efa4f8163675aa9c417322 X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.70] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:23:02 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B4F12.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Don't you find the plaster extremely uncomfortable on the face. It gets very hot as it cures. I do stage/film makeup and we use a totally different material to make up the original cast on the face. I can't imagine having that hot plaster on my face for the time it takes to set. Of course the professional method IS expensive and time consuming. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- raelee@rachelsampsel.com wrote: From: "raelee" To: Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Venetian Masking Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:30:15 -0700 Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:47:21 -0800 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Venetian research question - need help To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <001b01c652b9$93486360$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm curious. Are you making a plaster mold to then cover in whatever the mask is made of? What do you use for the base (to build upon)? Sharon, who has made masks, with difficulty, because I didn't have a good base :) Patches writes: I've got 2 methods and neither are what the pro shops use. Method 1 that I show folks is to build the mask directly on the face using plaster. This obviously requires a partner. Method 2 is like method 1 only a encase the face in plaster to make a negative mold, seal up the holes, lubricate the inside and then pour about 3/4 gal plaster mix into the negative. Then letting it set for 24 hours and peeling it out of the negative mold. Both methods allow for a mask that fits the face of the model, but not anyone else's. The masks that get built can be shaped with protrusions and etc. quite easily on the face mold with a little planning. I cover my masks with fabric rather than paint b/c I think it looks better and it make things easier for me to sew my decorations on as much as possible (I try to use only a minimum of glue.). The pro shops first make the entire mask in solid clay, so their original bust can weigh up to about 5-10lbs. Once the sculpture is complete, it is encased in a special box and plaster is poured in to fill the whole box. When the plaster has set, the plaster box is removed and the clay cleaned out, revealing a negative in the block. They then pour a glue and paper mix in to the negative and press it into the negative form with their hands and I suspect a special tool that allows them to press a uniform backing into the mask. Once the mask has set, it is popped out, trimmed and decorated. If you would like, I can send you a handout on the plaster and decoration technique that I use. I've got them drafted up already for the workshops, so sending the file isn't a big deal. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 22:32:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3WbAf005307 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:32:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U3Wm67028414; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:32:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3WIXW054641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:32:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3WFmI063901; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:32:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3WBUC063830 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:32:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m14.in-tch.com [216.166.191.14]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k2U3N7A16678 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:23:07 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <008801c653ab$8e76c820$0ebfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060328211432.01dfa3c0@127.0.0.1><010f01c652dd$ee4fe020$06bfa6d8@pavilion> <7.0.1.0.2.20060328212645.0249ce50@surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:39:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:32:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B5160.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Dunno, myself, but the original poster said something about not wanting a closed neckline? I couldn't really tell exactly to what they were referring. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Jurancich" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. > Why would the "closed up neckline" be 'verboten'? I wear a > high-bodied gown (doublet style) closed all the way up. Made with > the proper fabrics (linen for the shift, etc.), it's perfectly comfortable. > > Joan in Sacramento, CA > > At 07:07 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote: > >I'd say a doublet would be your best choice, if it didn't fall into the > >verboten "closed up neckline" category. > >--Sue > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Suzi Clarke" > >To: "Historical Costume" > >Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:22 PM > >Subject: [h-cost] Images of 16th century ladies. > > > > > > > > > > I have just spent heaven knows how long trying to find an image of an > > > English or French woman on the 1570's, who does not have either a > > > ruff, or a partlet, or a closed up neckline. > > > > > > I don't want Italian - I have Moda a Firenze. (and want to make > > > something from it, but it would not be right - boo!) I have checked > > > the two Clouet databases in the French "Joconde" system, which are > > > drool worthy, but unhelpful. I have checked www.marquise.de, "My > > > Gracious Silence", Vecellio et al, plus postcards and books till I > > > don't know what I am seeing. > > > > > > I have to make a 6th dress for the court of Mary Queen of Scots, and > > > have set a date, arbitrarily, for about 1573 for them all. (5 years > > > either way would be fine.) So far all my dresses have partlets, worn > > > in various ways, both white and black, and ruffs. I am desperate to > > > find something accurate but different. Any help out there? I know a > > > lot of you are interested in this period. > > > > > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Mar 29 22:40:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3eCiW005431 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:40:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U3eNsr000691; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:40:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3e3a1055122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:40:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3e09n069128; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:40:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U3dvg3069044 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:39:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.160.194.96] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([216.160.194.96]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:39:51 -0800 Message-ID: <442B5308.7000005@msn.com> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 20:39:52 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venetian Masking References: <200603300152.k2U1qB625068@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <200603300152.k2U1qB625068@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2006 03:39:51.0876 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A3BC840:01C653AB] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:40:27 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B5327.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Masks and Masking in Medieval and Early Tudor England by Meg Twycross and Sarah Carpenter has a HUGE (30 pages long!) bibliography. They constantly reference masking on the continent as a source because it took longer to catch on in England. I would bet a confectionery that you could find what you are looking for there. I'd love to have a copy of your hand out if you are sharing! Sg raelee wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 00:54:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U5sBwJ008495 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:54:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U5sMMI015625; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:54:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U5reDx067020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:53:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U5rbKa055052; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:53:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U5rYxh055003 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:53:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A134B40468; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:48:36 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Venetian Masking Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:53:42 -0800 Message-ID: <00a201c653be$4da294b0$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <200603300152.k2U1qB625068@localhost.localdomain> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2U5rYxh055003 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:54:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B728E.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sorry if I'm confused. Is your mask made of plaster? Or just the mold? When I make masks, I use alternate layers of cheesecloth and paper, in glue. It makes a lightweight, slightly flexible mask. Then I glue pieces of leather at contact spots for comfort. Does this sound like what you do? Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of raelee Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:30 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Venetian Masking Message: 3 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:47:21 -0800 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Venetian research question - need help To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <001b01c652b9$93486360$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm curious. Are you making a plaster mold to then cover in whatever the mask is made of? What do you use for the base (to build upon)? Sharon, who has made masks, with difficulty, because I didn't have a good base :) Patches writes: I've got 2 methods and neither are what the pro shops use. Method 1 that I show folks is to build the mask directly on the face using plaster. This obviously requires a partner. Method 2 is like method 1 only a encase the face in plaster to make a negative mold, seal up the holes, lubricate the inside and then pour about 3/4 gal plaster mix into the negative. Then letting it set for 24 hours and peeling it out of the negative mold. Both methods allow for a mask that fits the face of the model, but not anyone else's. The masks that get built can be shaped with protrusions and etc. quite easily on the face mold with a little planning. I cover my masks with fabric rather than paint b/c I think it looks better and it make things easier for me to sew my decorations on as much as possible (I try to use only a minimum of glue.). The pro shops first make the entire mask in solid clay, so their original bust can weigh up to about 5-10lbs. Once the sculpture is complete, it is encased in a special box and plaster is poured in to fill the whole box. When the plaster has set, the plaster box is removed and the clay cleaned out, revealing a negative in the block. They then pour a glue and paper mix in to the negative and press it into the negative form with their hands and I suspect a special tool that allows them to press a uniform backing into the mask. Once the mask has set, it is popped out, trimmed and decorated. If you would like, I can send you a handout on the plaster and decoration technique that I use. I've got them drafted up already for the workshops, so sending the file isn't a big deal. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 00:54:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U5srdE008518 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:54:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U5t5YC026483; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:55:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U5sf6x067116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:54:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U5sfvU055660; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:54:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U5samf055597 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:54:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A174E4B0340; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:49:40 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] quickie textile guide Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:54:45 -0800 Message-ID: <00a301c653be$7296e0a0$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <007d01c65399$1c307fc0$14d4f5dc@user4712b7d135> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2U5samf055597 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:55:08 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B72B9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Can silk taffeta be washed? I tried to wash the fake stuff and it went limp. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:27 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] quickie textile guide I'd add Taffeta to the list of silk fabrics and add a warning that most of the time if you see satin, taffeta, velvet etc. in your local fabric shop they aren't actually silk and you must check the labels. Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Althea Turner" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:23 AM Subject: [h-cost] quickie textile guide > Hey all, > I have a friend who is not allowed to go to the fabric store without > a > keeper. :D She knows nothing about fabrics and likes shiny bright SHINY > fabrics, which are rarely a natural fiber. So with her in mind, I am > working on a quick guide that she, and others, can print out. I am sure > I am leaving out important information so if you could check it out and > let me know, I'd greatly appreciate it. The intended audience is > re-enactors without much experience with fabrics or sewing. > > http://www.alfalfapress.com/dress/quickie_textile_guide.html > > This is my first draft, so any input would be appreciated!! Thanks!! > Althea > > > Althea Turner > althea@alfalfapress.com > > "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have > company > in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they > want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." > William of Conches, 12th century > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 27/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 03:08:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U88Kr7028556 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 03:08:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U88VTZ022285; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 03:08:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U788NU073531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:08:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U782Ca001103; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:08:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U77Luu000703 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 00:07:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k2U770bJ003047 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 02:07:02 -0500 X-ORBL: [69.107.88.175] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-88-175.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.88.175]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2U76tcw175876 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 02:07:04 -0500 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20060329230032.025be638@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:01:06 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing In-Reply-To: <000401c651cc$b31b0af0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 03:08:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B91FF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >What do you say, a 15 inch waist: >http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 >I dont like it, its two bizarre. Can somebody send me this image? There's no way my computer can retrieve it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com ////\\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) )(( <> ))( * ) ( * /----\ /---\ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 03:16:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U8G0XS030599 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 03:16:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2U8GC2N026802; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 03:16:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U8FtJm080076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:15:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U8FlXR046092; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:15:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2U8Fg3c045923 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:15:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2U8FXS25499.; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:15:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:15:33 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:15:19 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] swaddling bands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2U8Fg3c045923 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (rhadamanthus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.143]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 03:16:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442B93CD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Monica, presumably you know the Georges de la Tour painting "Le nouveau-ne"? Can only find a rather poor version on the Web http://www.isabel.com/gallery/reprofr/l/latour/index.html Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 07:50:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UCoFLt022748 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:50:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UCoRUF008486; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:50:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UCnxrr002687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:49:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UCnuhn009920; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:49:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UCnpcE009841 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:49:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.160.194.96] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([216.160.194.96]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 04:49:46 -0800 Message-ID: <442BD3EB.7030005@msn.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 05:49:47 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Venetian research question - need help References: <20060329234104.68908.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060329234104.68908.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2006 12:49:46.0631 (UTC) FILETIME=[6CA3D970:01C653F8] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:50:30 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BD413.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Lovely work Kathy, thank you. Sg Kathy Page wrote: >Hi Rachel, welcome to the list. :-) > > >http://outoftheattic.homeip.net/Venetian_Masks.html > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 08:39:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDdg0B025175 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:39:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UDdsM6027461; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:39:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDbkdh007301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:37:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDbhM1042293; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:37:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2UDbb1u042133 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:37:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 65029 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2006 13:37:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2006 13:37:32 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330143330.01e19c88@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:37:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:39:57 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BDFAA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO If anyone is interested, this website, a newly revised one, has a large number of my 18th century costumes in its gallery. www.minuetcompany.org I did not make clothes for the two portly gentlemen, nor the lady top right picture, and bottom left figure, but did make virtually all the rest, from the skin out. (Except for any garments worn on the lower part of the body and otherwise known as knickers, briefs, panties stockings, hose or shoes etc!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 08:46:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDkjEf025410 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:46:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UDkvul030678; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:47:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDkbA7007999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDka4X048323; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:46:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDkWak048190 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:46:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.27d.8630556 (63000) for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:46:21 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <27d.8630556.315d3b2d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:46:21 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:47:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BE151.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/30/2006 8:38:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: but did make virtually all the rest, from the skin out. (Except for any garments worn on the lower part of the body and Most impression. When do you sleep? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 08:52:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDqnBE025619 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:52:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UDr1rg000807; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:53:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDqdgT008609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UDqbBu052461; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:52:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2UDqXlx052337 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:52:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 24571 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2006 13:52:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2006 13:52:27 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330145008.01e08990@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:52:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work In-Reply-To: <27d.8630556.315d3b2d@aol.com> References: <27d.8630556.315d3b2d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:53:04 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BE2BD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 14:46 30/03/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 3/30/2006 8:38:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > >but did make virtually all >the rest, from the skin out. (Except for any garments worn on the >lower part of the body and > > >Most impression. When do you sleep? In front of the TV mostly! I didn't make them all at once, but over a period of time. The current job, also 18th century, is giving me sleepless nights though - will post pictures when I am done as it has to be the stupidest job ever, apart from making costumes for wolves, also 18th century! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 09:53:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UErQ4M027708 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:53:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UErbRo030576; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:53:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UEqnGk015570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:52:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UEqjrL097715; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:52:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UEqfe2097584 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:52:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.357.1054b22 (15889) for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v108_r3.6) with ESMTP id MAILINID84-3e11442bf0ab2d6; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:52:27 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <27d.8630556.315d3b2d@aol.com> References: <27d.8630556.315d3b2d@aol.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:52:23 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:53:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BF0F1.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2UErQ4M027708 Status: RO Gorgeous! Thanks for sharing!!! Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 30, 2006, at 8:46 AM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 3/30/2006 8:38:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > > but did make virtually all > the rest, from the skin out. (Except for any garments worn on the > lower part of the body and > > > Most impression. When do you sleep? > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 10:09:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UF9MDA028209 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:09:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UF9YbZ006348; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:09:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UF9GSo021680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:09:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UF9D7M011475; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:09:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pony.uvm.edu (pony.uvm.edu [132.198.101.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UF99LV011350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:09:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.104.191] (ip104191.uvm.edu [132.198.104.191]) (authenticated bits=0) by pony.uvm.edu (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2UF95EB027846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:09:06 -0500 Message-ID: <442BF492.1060301@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:09:06 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330143330.01e19c88@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330143330.01e19c88@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:09:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BF4AE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > > If anyone is interested, this website, a newly revised one, has a large > number of my 18th century costumes in its gallery. www.minuetcompany.org Wow--that's all I can say--wow! - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 10:14:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFEGrv028427 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:14:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UFESHH008879; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:14:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFD744023027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:13:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFD627014982; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFD1qi014905 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a247fb.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.251]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 232ECFAC05E for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:13:00 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c6540c$6fef43d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330143330.01e19c88@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:13:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:14:31 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BF5D4.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO As if anyone was not interrested? You must be joking! What lovely costumes, thanks for sharing. I absolutely wont come with any critisism at all, but why does the gentlemen not button the bottom of their waistcoats? I think i recognise one of the ladies, i have seen at the ball in Bath, could this be right? Thanks and you should be proud ................ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:37 PM Subject: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work > > If anyone is interested, this website, a newly revised one, has a large > number of my 18th century costumes in its gallery. www.minuetcompany.org > > I did not make clothes for the two portly gentlemen, nor the lady top > right picture, and bottom left figure, but did make virtually all the > rest, from the skin out. (Except for any garments worn on the lower part > of the body and otherwise known as knickers, briefs, panties stockings, > hose or shoes etc!) > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 10:15:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFFTEo028475 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:15:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UFFgNA006996; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:15:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFEaZH023586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:14:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFEZs9016343; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:14:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFEUTK016175 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:14:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k2UFEMJ09474.; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:14:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:14:22 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:14:10 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2UFEUTK016175 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:15:45 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BF61E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Lovely costumes, Suzi! I'm curious about the very shiny fabric of the lilac gown. It looks much glossier than the satin ones. Is it a period fabric? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 30/03/2006 14:37 >>> If anyone is interested, this website, a newly revised one, has a large number of my 18th century costumes in its gallery. www.minuetcompany.org I did not make clothes for the two portly gentlemen, nor the lady top right picture, and bottom left figure, but did make virtually all the rest, from the skin out. (Except for any garments worn on the lower part of the body and otherwise known as knickers, briefs, panties stockings, hose or shoes etc!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 10:15:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFFXe0028479 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:15:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UFFj2u031110; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:15:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFEpDt023673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:14:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFEpkl016611; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:14:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFEeI1016424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:14:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.104.191] (ip104191.uvm.edu [132.198.104.191]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFEdTo027692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:14:40 -0500 Message-ID: <442BF5E0.9050204@uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:14:40 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <27d.8630556.315d3b2d@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <27d.8630556.315d3b2d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] linen sale "head's up" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:15:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442BF621.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO For those of you who like to line with lightweight linen, there are two colors on sale at fabric.com: tan and khaki, $3.75/yd http://www.fabric.com/clearance-fabric-fashion-fabric-clearance-47-discount-fabric-30-off-apparel-fabrics.aspx Lots of silk organzas, too... - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 12:39:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UHd7Ex019568 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:39:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UHdIrt018722; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:39:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UHcLLU054093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:38:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UHc8o2049794; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:38:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2UHbvvS049555 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:38:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 61538 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2006 17:37:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2006 17:37:51 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330183035.01e107a8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:34:10 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:39:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C17C6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 16:14 30/03/2006, you wrote: >Lovely costumes, Suzi! >I'm curious about the very shiny fabric of the lilac gown. It looks >much glossier than the satin ones. Is it a period fabric? No it is not. Bought by the lady herself, it is a polyester taffeta, which does not photograph well, although in daylight, and ordinary electric light it looks fine. You do what you can with what you are brought. (Or you bully them into wearing "real" fabrics, which I prefer to do!) The others are either real silk taffeta, or yarn dyed acetate taffeta, which wears remarkably well, and looks almost (well to a non-historian's eyes) like the real thing, while being a hell of a lot cheaper. Suzi >Kate Bunting >Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 30/03/2006 14:37 >>> > >If anyone is interested, this website, a newly revised one, has a >large number of my 18th century costumes in its gallery. >www.minuetcompany.org > > I did not make clothes for the two portly gentlemen, nor the lady >top right picture, and bottom left figure, but did make virtually all >the rest, from the skin out. (Except for any garments worn on the >lower part of the body and otherwise known as knickers, briefs, >panties stockings, hose or shoes etc!) > >Suzi > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >______________________________________________________________________ >This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. >For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >______________________________________________________________________ > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 15:29:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UKTorw022752 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:29:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UKU2oS014639; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:30:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UKTB5j073820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UKT60P082917; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:29:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2UHbvL2049558 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:38:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 61543 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2006 17:37:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@btinternet.com@86.133.19.131 with login) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2006 17:37:51 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330183514.01e172d0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:37:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work In-Reply-To: <001201c6540c$6fef43d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330143330.01e19c88@127.0.0.1> <001201c6540c$6fef43d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:30:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C3FCA.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 16:13 30/03/2006, you wrote: >As if anyone was not interrested? You must be joking! >What lovely costumes, thanks for sharing. >I absolutely wont come with any critisism at all, but why does the >gentlemen not button the bottom of their waistcoats? >I think i recognise one of the ladies, i have seen at the ball in >Bath, could this be right? >Thanks and you should be proud ................ The reason they are not buttoned is a purely practical one - they no longer fit. I made some of these costumes anything up to 15 years ago, and the gentlemen have allowed their appetites to overcome their desire to look good!! I have one of them on the "to do when he gets around to it" list for a replacement. You may well have met any of these people at the Bath Ball - the Bath group is an off shoot of the Covent Garden Minuet Company. Suzi >>If anyone is interested, this website, a newly revised one, has a >>large number of my 18th century costumes in its gallery. www.minuetcompany.org >> >> I did not make clothes for the two portly gentlemen, nor the >> lady top right picture, and bottom left figure, but did make >> virtually all the rest, from the skin out. (Except for any >> garments worn on the lower part of the body and otherwise >> known as knickers, briefs, panties stockings, hose or shoes etc!) >> >>Suzi >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 16:05:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UL5hK0023536 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:05:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UL5sct031316; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:05:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UL5XvZ078731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:05:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UL5MsQ011402; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:05:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from liberty3.libertyactivist.org (libertyactivist.org [199.227.219.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UL5Cha011243 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:05:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from raelee@rachelsampsel.com) Received: from localhost (liberty3 [127.0.0.1]) by liberty3.libertyactivist.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0FB62A42 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from liberty3.libertyactivist.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (liberty3 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24099-08 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by liberty3.libertyactivist.org (Postfix, from userid 48) id 5D25562A23; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:01:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from 199.31.3.198 (SquirrelMail authenticated user raelee) by www.libertyactivist.org with HTTP; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:01:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <9036.199.31.3.198.1143752475.squirrel@www.libertyactivist.org> In-Reply-To: <200603302030.k2UKTh4l083302@net.indra.com> References: <200603302030.k2UKTh4l083302@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:01:15 -0700 (MST) From: "Rachel Sampsel" To: h-costume@indra.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at libertyactivist.org Cc: Subject: [h-cost] venetian masking X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:05:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C4832.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:53:42 -0800 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Venetian Masking To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <00a201c653be$4da294b0$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry if I'm confused. Is your mask made of plaster? Or just the mold? When I make masks, I use alternate layers of cheesecloth and paper, in glue. It makes a lightweight, slightly flexible mask. Then I glue pieces of leather at contact spots for comfort. Does this sound like what you do? Sharon ********************* Patches writes: No. I literally make the mask form or frame of plaster and cloth. When dry, I then cover the form in another piece of cloth that I have choosen as my "backround". I then decorate the mask however I want and then slap a felt piece of cloth on the interior of the mask to cushion the face. It doesn't have the flexibility of your style, and will only fit the face of the original model comfortably, but it doesn't loose the shape and decoration display like some of the flexible masks do. It's also a little heavier, probably. But I will have to try your idea on the castings of my face to see how it works. It sounds interesting. I'll be sending the handouts via my work account, because my personal one right now is giving me attitude about attachments. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 16:28:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ULS4bF023962 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:28:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2ULSGvn008940; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:28:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ULPCHc081091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:25:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ULP4lM026818; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:25:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net (imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net [205.152.59.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ULOxBK026671 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:25:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wendirae@bellsouth.net) Received: from ibm68aec.bellsouth.net ([192.168.16.253]) by imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net with ESMTP id <20060330211701.ROLN8742.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@ibm68aec.bellsouth.net> for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:17:01 -0500 Received: from mail.bellsouth.net ([192.168.16.253]) by ibm68aec.bellsouth.net with SMTP id <20060330211700.UVIT17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:17:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.16.1 (webedge20-101-1106-101-20040924) X-Originating-IP: [66.255.42.194] From: To: Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:17:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060330211700.UVIT17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Subject: [h-cost] Regency Help - THANKS! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:28:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C4D70.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my plea for assistance with the regency robe (?) from P&P. I'll probably be asking more questions as I'm really not familiar at all with that period of costuming and don't really know where to start. I was hoping to find a pattern for the robe from one of the existing pattern companies as I'm not too good at scaling patterns from a book. Bjarne - you mentioned that you had made a dress similar to this one - any chance of seeing pictures? I would love to see your version as I am sure it is stunning (like everything else you make)! Thanks, Wendi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 17:42:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UMgWCR026621 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UMgint009324; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UMaHSp089578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:42:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UKOcND079290; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:24:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UKORD2079054 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:24:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.243.117] (acty2117.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.117]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655605C63A for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:54:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <442C3774.6010406@dandy.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:54:28 -0500 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] what do renaissance seamen look like? References: <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> <6.2.1.2.0.20060308150840.036ef300@64.87.54.245> <440F6653.7080200@reddawn.net> <001b01c6430e$d7f441b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> <4.3.1.2.20060328132742.03290e48@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20060328132742.03290e48@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C5EE4.009 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, All. Just a side note, the thrums don't need to be knotted on the outside, they just need to be hooked into the knitted goods like the knot on a Turkish carpet. In fact, one of the alternate names of a blanket with a thrummed outside (looks like a bathroom floormat) is a "rugg". They are noted in inventories from Plimoth Plantation circa 1620. Irish mantles from the late 16th C. had the same sort of finish to them, to help shed off moisture and keep in warmth, I suppose. I believe Moryson referred to them as "Irish rugges" . Mike T. > > Thrums are little bits of wool knotted together. If you knit this up, > and put all the knotted ends to the outside, it does look like fur. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 17:42:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UMgZDA026623 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UMgmOo018991; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UMaHSr089578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:42:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ULf27C039561; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:41:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2ULerS0039339 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:40:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5549.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.73]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id D0599FAC002 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:40:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c65442$9c426710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060330211700.UVIT17765.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help - THANKS! Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:40:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:51 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C5EE8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Wendi, It was many years ago i made that dress, and i am sorry to say, that i dont have any pictures of it. But i can tell you that it is very easy to make it. The two front pieces, are having deep pleats, that goes back to the shoulders. The two underbust straps closes the dress in the front. If you have a little experience in draping, you could drape it from looking at the pattern in the book. In my youth before i went to the design school, i was helping some people making an old abandoned mannor house into a museum. The last inhabitant died in 1829. She was born into the 18th century and would in her period have worn this style of dress. Therefore i made this dress for a lady who was living at the manor house. She and her husband was behind the opening of the museum. It was my intention to make her wear this dress from time to time, when visitors came to the manor house, but i never got any pictures from her, unfortunately. If you look at the dvd, you can have some closeup pics of it, also in Sense and Sensibility Emma Thompson wears it. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:17 PM Subject: [h-cost] Regency Help - THANKS! >I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my plea for assistance with the >regency robe (?) from P&P. I'll probably be asking more questions as I'm >really not familiar at all with that period of costuming and don't really >know where to start. I was hoping to find a pattern for the robe from one >of the existing pattern companies as I'm not too good at scaling patterns >from a book. > > Bjarne - you mentioned that you had made a dress similar to this one - any > chance of seeing pictures? I would love to see your version as I am sure > it is stunning (like everything else you make)! > > Thanks, > Wendi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 17:42:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UMgWPW026622 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UMgi2S009779; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UMaHSt089578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:42:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UIhbLO000572; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from liberty3.libertyactivist.org (libertyactivist.org [199.227.219.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UIhQ1c000379 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:43:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from raelee@rachelsampsel.com) Received: from localhost (liberty3 [127.0.0.1]) by liberty3.libertyactivist.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E431162A42 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:39:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from liberty3.libertyactivist.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (liberty3 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23776-02 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:39:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by liberty3.libertyactivist.org (Postfix, from userid 48) id E1DF362A23; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:39:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from 199.31.3.197 (SquirrelMail authenticated user raelee) by www.libertyactivist.org with HTTP; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:39:05 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <55239.199.31.3.197.1143743945.squirrel@www.libertyactivist.org> In-Reply-To: <200603300332.k2U3WHcD063934@net.indra.com> References: <200603300332.k2U3WHcD063934@net.indra.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:39:05 -0700 (MST) From: "Rachel Sampsel" To: h-costume@indra.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at libertyactivist.org Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 303 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:42:48 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C5EE4.00A by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Message: 11 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:22:07 -0800 (PST) From: " Lalah" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Venetian Masking Don't you find the plaster extremely uncomfortable on the face. It gets very hot as it cures. I do stage/film makeup and we use a totally different material to make up the original cast on the face. I can't imagine having that hot plaster on my face for the time it takes to set. Of course the professional method IS expensive and time consuming. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender ******************* Patches Writes: Actually, while the plaster is exothermic as it dries, it really isn't that bad. It feels more like a warm compress than a burning sensation - I don't know of a case where someone used the ordinary plaster that you can get at a hobby or craft store and got burned by it. I've heard of impromptu waxing results because they didn't grease their face first, but no burns. I've done this on a lot of folks and no one has come back screaming about burns or bring uncomfortably hot. The uncomforatble part comes in when water drips into the corner of your eye or in your ear or something. It helps to have a napkin handy to wipe that away. Or if you're claustrophobic. I learned to make the molds from a theatre professor of mine and then a few friends later on. A few Art classes and so forth. For pro-theatre, there are far easier tools to use, Unfortunately, getting the tools and pro-latex is a little difficult unless you've got a theatre buying it for you. (I fell out of my theatre rat tendencies while still in college and confronted with the politics of the professional scene. It still hurts to watch a show that I haven't worked on.) But anyway, masks are a hobby that I've piddled with off and on and somehow I think folks are assuming I'm some kind of authority on the subject out here (NOT!). Hence, the help request. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 18:10:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNAqk0027575 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:10:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UNB4OC020287; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:11:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNAXQF095433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:10:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNAUFW009812; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:10:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51315.mail.yahoo.com (web51315.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.125]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2UNAPt5009655 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:10:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 39270 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Mar 2006 23:10:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=E469hCUdnVulUCx4p3pPi55y56VZucWgfTMr6sftbh0kxM04nJZ71jpwX+s+ADJ1MucH8VtIPjZERPKD+HhI1y+CkSSFE1R9KNxuitNSXxiEIhYLjBKRsQpNK4+82Y+R4C64rgFgjqKoQw24gb1fN/NLPmEqYNfYqTGDg4R0LGY= ; Message-ID: <20060330231019.39268.qmail@web51315.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.135.74] by web51315.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:10:19 PST Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:10:19 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] talk about tight lacing To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20060329230032.025be638@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:11:07 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C6588.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO If you Google "15 inch waist", you may see any number of images of too-narrow waists. Ann in CT --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > >What do you say, a 15 inch waist: > >http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv/player.html?catID=10&clipID=7149 > >I dont like it, its two bizarre. > > Can somebody send me this image? There's no way my > computer can retrieve it. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > ////\\\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > )(( <> ))( > * ) ( * > /----\ /---\ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 18:16:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNGP6m027762 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:16:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UNGcgw022353; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:16:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNFQgS096000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:15:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNFOEA013709; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:15:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNFF3B013504 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:15:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.220.19]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20060330231506.YCN3988.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:15:06 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Showing off my 18th century work Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:15:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcZUAVJaQw+Wud/cTPCcHQSfNkNDZQAThytw In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060330145008.01e08990@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: <20060330231506.YCN3988.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:16:41 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C66D6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >In front of the TV mostly! I didn't make them all at once, but over a >period of time. The current job, also 18th century, is giving me >sleepless nights though - will post pictures when I am done as it has >to be the stupidest job ever, apart from making costumes for wolves, >also 18th century! WOLVES!!!! OK, I MUST hear about that when I get there:) Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/298 - Release Date: 3/30/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 18:32:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNWuLi028346 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:32:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UNX8Qm029129; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:33:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNWerV098250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:32:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNWa4R027471; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:32:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNWFQG027283 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:32:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A9564FA038E; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:27:18 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] venetian masking Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:32:26 -0800 Message-ID: <003901c65452$342b6b30$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <9036.199.31.3.198.1143752475.squirrel@www.libertyactivist.org> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2UNWFQG027283 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:33:11 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C6AB4.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It's also inexpensive. I generally do only a few layers-paper, cloth and paper again. I use vaseline on the mold, so I put cleaner paper on the inside, however with a mold release spray, maybe I wouldn't have to do that. I build details with the paper. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rachel Sampsel Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 1:01 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] venetian masking Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:53:42 -0800 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Venetian Masking To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <00a201c653be$4da294b0$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry if I'm confused. Is your mask made of plaster? Or just the mold? When I make masks, I use alternate layers of cheesecloth and paper, in glue. It makes a lightweight, slightly flexible mask. Then I glue pieces of leather at contact spots for comfort. Does this sound like what you do? Sharon ********************* Patches writes: No. I literally make the mask form or frame of plaster and cloth. When dry, I then cover the form in another piece of cloth that I have choosen as my "backround". I then decorate the mask however I want and then slap a felt piece of cloth on the interior of the mask to cushion the face. It doesn't have the flexibility of your style, and will only fit the face of the original model comfortably, but it doesn't loose the shape and decoration display like some of the flexible masks do. It's also a little heavier, probably. But I will have to try your idea on the castings of my face to see how it works. It sounds interesting. I'll be sending the handouts via my work account, because my personal one right now is giving me attitude about attachments. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 18:51:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNppN7029009 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:51:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2UNq3PY004928; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:52:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNpP0x001138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:51:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNpMl7043056; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:51:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav4.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UNpHVk042961 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:51:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:51:17 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.124.168 by BAY101-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:51:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.124.168] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:51:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2006 23:51:17.0112 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6029F80:01C65454] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth's garb X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:52:06 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C6F23.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2UNppN7029009 Status: RO I'm ready to cut the fabric and just realized that I don't know how it is closed. Does it open in the front with a front stomacher or does it close somewhere else and hidden? Can anyone suggest how to place an opening in this gown? I've seen it done both ways in dresses. This is for a 7 year old so it has to be the simplest way. I just want it to be right. Otheriwse the parts are going fine. Body, farthingale and pettycoat done. Fabric for the sleeves ready to be made as well. Beads and ideas in the planning stage. All seems to be proceeding well... then I think too much and get in trouble. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 19:57:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V0vmjT031129 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:57:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2V0w0QE030905; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:58:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V0v8Td009662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:57:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V0v4gn094115; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:57:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V0uqFV093980 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:56:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.192]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060331005646.XRBT16058.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:56:46 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([219.89.179.87]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060331005646.YVUO4601.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:56:46 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.385 [268.3.3/298]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:56:46 +1200 Message-ID: <005001c6545d$fc251c20$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth's garb Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:56:43 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:58:03 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C7E98.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO <> As the skirt is open in the front I'd suggest making it close in front with a stomacher/placard over it. It doesn't really seem logical to have a bodice open somewhere else becaue it means the skirt has an extra opening somewhere else. http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/tower.html http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html It really does give a good smooth look. michaela http://glittersweet.com the temptation to make a tudor gown is growing... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/298 - Release Date: 30/03/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 21:48:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V2mOuQ004435 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:48:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2V2mZg7008295; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:48:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V2m9CE021166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:48:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V2m6s1072401; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:48:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-dav13.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V2m2RE072322 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:48:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:47:57 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.254.124.168 by BAY101-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 02:47:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.254.124.168] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005001c6545d$fc251c20$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth's garb Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:47:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2006 02:47:57.0217 (UTC) FILETIME=[842A4910:01C6546D] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:48:39 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C9884.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I saw Ninya site and asked her several questions already. I just wanted to make sure there was no alternate way to do it... and I pick the wrong one. Thanks for the advice. I think I've over researched this garb and made myself nervous about making it. I made the corset/bosy for my daughter of lined. that studff is wonderful to hand sew. I'm making the complete thing with hand sewn parts. I may never do it again but well worth the time. I like handsewing. Sewing all those channels on the corset was not fun but I learned more that way. When I make mine, I need to measure more fully. I had some that were too wide and some too narrow. I need to be more consistant. It was the first one I've ever made. It looks wonderful. I'll try to post a picture when I can. I had decided to use the Elenor de Toledo dress for mine but an liking the early Tudors more now that I've found so many with the turned-up sleeves. I think it would look better if we have matching period gown since we're going together. Elizabeth wants me to play her mom. I can do that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth's garb > < is > closed. Does it open in the front with a front stomacher or does it close > somewhere else and hidden? Can anyone suggest how to place an opening in > this gown? I've seen it done both ways in dresses. This is for a 7 year > old > so it has to be the simplest way. I just want it to be right.>> > > As the skirt is open in the front I'd suggest making it close in front > with > a stomacher/placard over it. It doesn't really seem logical to have a > bodice > open somewhere else becaue it means the skirt has an extra opening > somewhere > else. > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/tower.html > http://www.ninyamikhaila.com/Princesselizabeth.html > It really does give a good smooth look. > > michaela > http://glittersweet.com > the temptation to make a tudor gown is growing... > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/298 - Release Date: 30/03/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 21:57:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V2vLfu005145 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:57:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2V2vYmS011394; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:57:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V2v7Gl021970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:57:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V2v6rm078247; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:57:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V2v3uM078146 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:57:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6265D095 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:56:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060330184615.03567668@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:56:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] French site help dating X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:57:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C9A9E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hello all, While I took French classes for two years, that was many years ago, and my French simply is lacking. Anyway, I found this lovely site that has images I had never seen before. http://gallica.bnf.fr/Catalogue/NoticesInd/MAN01080.htm I am wondering what time frame these images came from, but my searches on the website is badly hampered by my lack of understanding the French language. And babel fish is not a help. Would anyone know what specific time frame these are from other than 16th century (I kinda get that), and perhaps any further information, in English? and be willing to share that with me? Thank you, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Mar 30 22:15:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V3FLsA005745 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:15:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2V3FYbS017920; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:15:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V3FO0a024653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:15:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V3FNuR090988; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:15:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2V3FJcM090929 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:15:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 27436 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2006 19:14:30 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 27405, pid: 27428, t: 1.7286s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:36/d:1361 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.126) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 30 Mar 2006 19:14:28 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060330191347.02311210@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:15:10 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] French site help dating In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060330184615.03567668@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060330184615.03567668@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:15:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442C9ED6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 06:56 PM 3/30/2006, you wrote: >Hello all, > >While I took French classes for two years, that was many years ago, >and my French simply is lacking. > >Anyway, I found this lovely site that has images I had never seen before. >http://gallica.bnf.fr/Catalogue/NoticesInd/MAN01080.htm >I am wondering what time frame these images came from, but my >searches on the website is badly hampered by my lack of >understanding the French language. And babel fish is not a help. > >Would anyone know what specific time frame these are from other than >16th century (I kinda get that), and perhaps any further >information, in English? and be willing to share that with me? > >Thank you, > >Kimiko The style of clothing seems to be early 16th century, say before 1530. Think young Henry VIII. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 01:16:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V6GiYL011957 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:16:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2V6GuBL014854; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:16:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V6GJEO041683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:16:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V6GCYg007120; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:16:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V6G7Wx007050 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:16:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=ho6TwlgbOANuDGyN1+ZMyfL5pJBalkfaTJ1ITs4Aa9J01PTfuJMmLUvsUSkM/sD+; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.155.57.160] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FPCvV-0000S7-Hr for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:16:06 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c6548a$9586d760$a0399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060330184615.03567668@64.87.54.245> Subject: Re: [h-cost] French site help dating Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:15:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b7fa72b24244eae774cdda5a58fdb0bc9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.160 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:17:00 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442CC958.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kimiko wrote: > Anyway, I found this lovely site that has images I had never seen before. > http://gallica.bnf.fr/Catalogue/NoticesInd/MAN01080.htm > Would anyone know what specific time frame these are from other than 16th > century (I kinda get that), and perhaps any further information, in > English? and be willing to share that with me? The images on the page are from Ovid's _Heroides_, which is written in the form of letters from famous women (mostly mythological) of antiquity to their lovers. IIRC, all the affairs ended badly. Anyway, the illuminated manuscript is MS Francais 874, held in the Bibliotheque Nationale de France in Paris, and it is believed to have been created sometime between 1498 and 1502. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 03:15:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V8FrE5000606 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:15:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2V8G6Lo018926; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:16:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V8FXsG051218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:15:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2V8FSRn081489; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:15:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31905.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31905.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2V8FNrf081370 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:15:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tania_gr17@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 76355 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Mar 2006 08:15:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=yxRJZTHlQZD32wO+V679HAUz055xwz2H2j2aaO5ObtszXGNyOpstg477ORSpvliYjYvegE25h8bf9hsCTLKe25Aiv+EnPtz3yor1Pv1QpSuE/V2+LtUgPd06Bo+gIgYjvfsMnNsUBxZ6hGs/qJgrT3V3SS/tkUPwJq4EvU4S64E= ; Message-ID: <20060331081515.76353.qmail@web31905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.79.63.35] by web31905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:15:15 PST Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:15:15 -0800 (PST) From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help - THANKS! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000701c65442$9c426710$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:16:09 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442CE546.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Bjarne Who do you buy silk and gold embroidery stuff from in Denmark apart from Broderi Antik? Another question. I am looking for the english word for "kopper" the small gold button things used in gold embroidery, been looking at all my sources but so far no luck. It is the ones where you have to make the holes for sewing throug yourself. Tania (Denmark) --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 08:07:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VD7vGp021866 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:07:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VD89nY015778; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:08:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VD7iMZ097099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:07:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VD7aV3061987; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:07:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VD7Vit061857 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:07:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.258.99ddedd (3924) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:07:24 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <258.99ddedd.315e838c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:07:24 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help - THANKS! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:08:12 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D29B9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/31/2006 3:17:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tania_gr17@yahoo.com writes: the small gold button things used in gold embroidery, been looking at all my sources but so far no luck. It is the ones where you have to make the holes for sewing throug yourself. Do you mean "sequin"? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 08:29:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VDT3OZ022260 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:29:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VDTGjQ022685; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:29:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VDRCko098854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:27:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VDRBsl074954; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:27:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VDR6bV074891 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:27:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5549.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.73]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BC6E3A50049 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:27:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000901c654c6$d0cab080$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060331081515.76353.qmail@web31905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help - THANKS! Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:27:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:29:19 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D2EAC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Tania, Broderi Antik has some goldwork supplies if you ask her. It is not on display. I really dont know what kopper is, i dont think i have heard that before. You dont mean spangels do you? Spangels you get in silver and gold, and many sizes. Other goldwork supplies i have got from Hedgework Handworks, here i also got some dyed silk chenille threads. Undyed silk chenille threads i get from: http://www.aurorasilk.com/index.html. I mostly use Eterna Stranded silk floss wich i get from: http://threadexpress.com/default.asp and for extra fine highlights i use Pipers silk thread: http://www.pipers-silks.com/ And Japanese flat silk thread: http://www.japaneseembroideryuk.com/ Finally i also use some of the huge range of Mulberry silk: http://www.mulberrysilks-patriciawood.com/silktopicazalea.htm Denmark is a poor country range wise, you cant get any silk embroidery thread here! Håndarbejdets fremme shop on Strøget used to have some silk, but it was twisted silk, wich i rarely use, it looses the shine, when it get twisted. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tania Gruning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency Help - THANKS! > Bjarne > > Who do you buy silk and gold embroidery stuff from in Denmark apart from > Broderi Antik? > > Another question. I am looking for the english word for "kopper" the small > gold button things used in gold embroidery, been looking at all my sources > but so far no luck. It is the ones where you have to make the holes for > sewing throug yourself. > > Tania (Denmark) > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save > big. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 09:20:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VEKjRc023251 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:20:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VEKvKt009625; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:21:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VEK6lJ003709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:20:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VEK1ou012121; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:20:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VEJvLX012038 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:19:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.28f.87329c2 (15699) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:19:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v108_r3.6) with ESMTP id MAILINID51-3d53442d3a7f103; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:19:44 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) To: Historical Costume Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-40-151339711 From: Susan Data-Samtak Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:19:40 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Clothes fitting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:21:01 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D3AC9.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO --Apple-Mail-40-151339711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed << Clothes That Fit the Woman, Not the Store Sign In to E-Mail This Printer-Friendly Reprints Save Article --Apple-Mail-40-151339711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-40-151339711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed By MICHAEL BARBARO Published: March 31, 2006 It is a noble pursuit that has long eluded the clothing industry: a standardized sizing system that would allow consumers to navigate the frustrating world of off-the-rack apparel, where size varies from retailer to retailer. --Apple-Mail-40-151339711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-40-151339711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Finding Her Perfect Fit --Apple-Mail-40-151339711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed A Woman, Full of Hope, in the Dressing Room (March 31, 2006) --Apple-Mail-40-151339711 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed A Benefit for Insurers But a closely watched experiment, under way at two national apparel=20 companies, highlights just how hard it may be to pull off. One obstacle is that retailers, ever eager to distinguish themselves,=20 are loath to share anything, even if it might help their customers. Fit Technologies, which is owned by a Dallas entrepreneur, has=20 developed a sizing system based on three body types that represent the=20 most common female figures. Clothing companies that adopt it produce=20 three versions of every size, one for each body shape. Jones Apparel and Garfield & Marks quietly applied the system to a=20 handful of lines, and three retailers, Macy's, Nordstrom and Q.V.C.,=20 the television shopping network, agreed to carry limited quantities of=20 the products. Despite the endorsement from big-name companies, the system faces=20 enormous challenges. Retailers that commit to it must find space for=20 more merchandise, train workers to understand the new sizes and explain=20 the new system to customers =97 a struggle for stores that already have=20 few employees on the sales floor. Then there is the reality, however counterintuitive it may be, that=20 retailers and clothing makers thrive off sizing confusion. Consumers=20 who find a brand that fits are likely to stick with it and a standard=20 sizing system would encourage them to visit other stores. So perhaps it is unsurprising that the sizing system, called Fitlogic,=20 has hit some bumps in the road. Macy's, which stocked a single style of=20 Jones New York pants made with the Fitlogic sizing system, said it=20 would cease carrying the line. And Nordstrom, which is carrying a=20 single style of pants from Garfield & Marks, said it had no plans to=20 expand use of the sizing system. Both companies declined to disclose sales figures for the clothes using=20 the Fitlogic sizing system, as did Q.V.C. and Jones Apparel, with=20 executives saying it was too early to tell. Nancy Jones, vice president for marketing at Garfield & Marks, said=20 customer feedback on the Fitlogic system was positive but that "we have=20 not figured out how to get this concept out to our stores in a fashion=20 they can accept financially and commit to in terms of space." There is=20 little doubt that consumers would benefit from Fitlogic, or any other=20 standardized sizing system, if it were widely adopted. Size, by=20 definition a standardized measure, has become one of the most flexible=20 concepts in retailing. The creation of vanity sizes =97 intentionally smaller than an objective=20 size, to flatter the buyer =97 has introduced pure guesswork into=20 shopping. A size 10 from one clothing manufacturer is a size 8 from=20 another and a 12 from still another. According to a survey of 84,000 women, conducted by the NPD Group, a=20 market research firm, 36 percent return a product every year because it=20 does not fit. Those returns equal 12 percent of all clothing sales. As a result, industry executives say, women shop at fewer stores and=20 buy fewer clothes than they would if sizing were more transparent. Julia Pierson, 46, from Baltimore, buys pants from one company, Jones=20 New York, because it is the only brand that produces a size 12 that=20 fits her. "My waist is disproportionately large," said Ms. Pierson, who=20 was shopping in the Jones New York department at Macy's Herald Square,=20 wearing a pair of Jones New York corduroy pants. Fitlogic is the not the first company to tackle the sizing riddle. In=20 the mid-1990's Levi Strauss developed a system that allowed consumers=20 to order jeans cut precisely to their measurements. Using a different=20 approach, a company called Intellefit designed scanning machines that=20 took shoppers' measurements =97 including shoulder slope and calf=20 thickness =97 in stores. And Neiman Marcus provides a kind of CliffsNotes=20 to sizes in its catalogs. But an industrywide solution has never materialized. The developer of Fitlogic is Cricket Lee, who has frequently expressed=20 her own frustration with clothing sizes. On Q.V.C.'s Web site, Ms. Lee=20 describes herself as a 52-year-old who weighs 245 pounds, adding, "Like=20 many women, I was unable to find clothing that fit and I was sick and=20 tired of it." Ms. Lee declined to comment for this article. According to Fit Technology, more than 90 percent of women over 35 fall=20 into three body types: straight silhouette, curvy and pearlike, which=20 the company labels 1, 2 and 3. Fitlogic pairs traditional sizes with=20 its three body types, producing a tag with sizes like 10.2 and 8.3. But what would make the system appealing to shoppers =97 multiple=20 versions of the same size =97 is what turns off retailers and clothing=20 makers. Three times the number of items requires more display space and=20 creates more risk of unsold inventory. "A small boutique cannot support=20 a program like this," Ms. Jones of Garfield & Marks said. The retailers that could support such a program may not want to. For=20 many, proprietary sizing, however frustrating, is a vital part of a=20 brand's identity. "A Seven Jeans fit is different from a Gap jeans fit," said Andrew=20 Jassin, managing director of the Jassin-O'Rourke Group, a fashion=20 consulting firm in New York. "They don't want it to be the same." The system also creates more work for clothing manufacturers. To make=20 one pair of pants using Fitlogic sizing, Garfield & Marks, which=20 designs clothes by hand, had to create three patterns. "The concept=20 behind this is legitimate and needed by consumers," Ms. Jones said.=20 "But it is very challenging to be an innovator on a concept like this." The industry appears to be taking a wait-and-see approach. Even Macy's,=20 which agreed to test the system, has done little to advertise it. The Jones Apparel pants using Fitlogic sizing hang on a single,=20 unmarked rack in a corner of Macy's Herald Square store in Manhattan.=20 On a recent evening, a saleswoman in the Jones New York department=20 where the pants are sold said she was unfamiliar with the product or=20 where it was sold in the store.<< Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". =A0- "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour --Apple-Mail-40-151339711 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --Apple-Mail-40-151339711-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 09:40:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VEe0GX023563 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:40:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VEeCOw018721; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:40:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VEdlIt005966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:39:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VEdjAl026579; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:39:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VEdgK9026544 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:39:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l8so818615nzf for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:39:42 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=S8jlO8olxexMDl9h5pv/40oprWM4RDU1mOEalrTe1KLvUTH2gk0rDGCpBTrTKiKhivzSuiK7FaZI8qSMeBHQllEgUI3+BV3H8JxCKI1HIshJEqaq1A9ZM0dUKTxdSF2QYBUraTOGejLobjYOcVrXPDt0cQqm/07fAlIpcaIw17c= Received: by 10.65.213.10 with SMTP id p10mr256307qbq; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.40.6 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:39:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <72adc2660603310639x5b7f9149t648360e86881834c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:39:25 -0500 From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2VEdgK9026544 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:40:16 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D3F4C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thank you for that article... very interesting. Now what the retailers are missing is the opportunity to expand, and raise their sales. Imagine... A large chain adopts the Fitlogic system. Inside their stores, they create separate boutiques, or even a small independent entity. One for each body type. Stock the items that flatter that body type the most in their respective sections. In larger chains you could even have different stock for a particular body type in different stores. If a customer finds something they like in one section, but it is not their body type, allow them to order (or request from another store) that item in the fit they want. This wouldn't be anything revolutionary, major chains already swap clothing around between stores. How many women would love to have a store that they knew the items would be a better fit. You see it already, women have brand loyalty, if a line provides better fit. Oooooh, just think about it... stores might actually have to sell more items on style and quality if they took out the fit roulette. Mari - still irked that Banana Republic stopped making "the perfect fitting jean" in 1992. >Clothes That Fit the Woman, Not the Store > By MICHAEL BARBARO > Published: March 31, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 10:15:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFF7Y5024278 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:15:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VFFJ0A000476; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:15:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFF4d7009702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:15:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFF1b6054701; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:15:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFEvPw054572 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:14:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8863B61C for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:15:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <442D476E.20602@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:14:54 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] droolworthy victorian X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:15:22 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D4787.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oh my! http://www.carolinabelles.net/ "Our Mission: To encourage, educate, and empower women in all aspects of Cowboy Action Shooting sports and all things Victorian." Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 10:17:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFHCNm024325 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:17:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VFHPhc029729; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:17:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFH6qU009955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:17:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFH5B3056524; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:17:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay108-dav8.bay108.hotmail.com [65.54.162.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFH0rS056364 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:17:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:16:54 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 69.216.171.202 by BAY108-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:16:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [69.216.171.202] X-Originating-Email: [robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com] X-Sender: robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com From: "KELLY" To: Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:16:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2006 15:16:54.0675 (UTC) FILETIME=[24FA3630:01C654D6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Early 1800's beading X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:17:28 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D4805.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Not Scanned Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2VFHCNm024325 Status: RO I recently was given an early "head's up" that the Island will be hosting 1812 events for the next several years, leading up to the 200th anniversary and have been asked to display my beadwork - however, as my focus is ACW and Edwardian, this is 50 - 100 years earlier than my research has focused on. I have not been very successful in finding information on the use of beaded accessories or dress trims in regards to those of European background for this time period - can anyone suggest some good references? Thank you, Kelly Dorman Backward Glances www.backwardglances.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 10:22:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFMs7J024428 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:22:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VFN6ri003672; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:23:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFMaCS010555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:22:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFMYku060974; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:22:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-f25.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFMUt2060874 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:22:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:22:27 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by by107fd.bay107.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:22:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.166.214.5] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "Kelly Grant" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Clothes fitting Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:22:25 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2006 15:22:27.0297 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB3C4D10:01C654D6] Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:23:10 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D495B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO God forbid, stores cater to the older than 20 crowd! If this idea were to actually fly, how many women would take up the shopping hobby? I'd like to see what sort of percentage of women are these stores missing by continuing to ignore this market. I for one would love to be able to go into any store and find something girly, and fashionable to buy off the rack! Kelly, who wears boys levi jeans and t shirts most of the time...bummed out by the lack of fashionable clothes in her body type...and I'm not a very large person! "Bravery is something you can experience on the spur of the moment, faced with danger. To have courage, you must think about the dangers in advance, then weigh the risks, and then do what you have to do, despite your fears" Caius Merlyn Britannicus > ><< Clothes That Fit the Woman, Not the Store >By MICHAEL BARBARO > >Published: March 31, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 10:23:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFN8D3024432 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:23:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VFNKvE031143; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:23:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFMtCT010574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:22:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFMtBL061273; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:22:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.200.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFMpDi061123 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from traci@crimsonvision.net) Received: from smailcenter71.comcast.net ([204.127.205.171]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060331152245011002trkbe>; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:22:45 +0000 Received: from [205.175.225.28] by smailcenter71.comcast.net; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:22:44 +0000 From: traci@crimsonvision.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] droolworthy victorian Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:22:44 +0000 Message-Id: <033120061522.23155.442D49440000D01B00005A732200763692CE0201079C079002019C03079D0C@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Aug 4 2005) X-Authenticated-Sender: Y3JpbXNvbnZpc2lvbjFAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:23:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D4968.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Not only are they fantastic costumers and beautiful ladies, they are all sweet as anything! Most of their outfits come from www.trulyvictorian.com patterns and they are on the boards there; Tornado Ali is on there most often I think. She and I actually started talking because her horse is kept at the stable where my horse came from; I bought him last year and posted pics of him on the Truly Victorian board and it turns out she even has some of his hair saved for costuming projects! ;) Anyways! Fantastic ladies and great inspiration! XxX, Traci -------------- Original message -------------- From: Dawn > Oh my! > > http://www.carolinabelles.net/ > > "Our Mission: To encourage, educate, and empower women in all aspects > of Cowboy Action Shooting sports and all things Victorian." > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 10:24:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFOTWN024456 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:24:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VFOfbi018095; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:24:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFOC2T010671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:24:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFOBV8062313; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:24:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFO70n062157 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:24:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.270.8d68256 (32915) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:23:58 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <270.8d68256.315ea38e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:23:58 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] droolworthy victorian To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5301 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:24:44 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D49B9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/31/2006 10:16:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dawn@reddawn.net writes: http://www.carolinabelles.net/ **************** Being from NC, I don't understand what all that "western" gear has to do with either of the Carolinas. The Bustle gowns are fun though! Great! For decade TX has pretended to be part of the "South"...it's not. Now we're pretending to be TX????? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 10:51:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFpvJ0024989 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:51:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VFq9EE015859; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:52:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFpb54016046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:51:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFpY33086533; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:51:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFp5jI085930 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:51:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.2e1.4d287ef (29672) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:50:55 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <2e1.4d287ef.315ea9de@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:50:54 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 1800's beading To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5300 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:52:13 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D5029.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 3/31/2006 10:17:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, robinandkellydorman@hotmail.com writes: have not been very successful in finding information on the use of beaded accessories or dress trims in regards to those of European background for this time period - can anyone suggest some good references? I don't have much information--I had thought beads weren't much worn at all. However, Mary Boardman Crowninshield, at an event in Washington, DC, in December 1815, described "Mrs. Porter [wore] a black crepe bugled a quarter of a yard high." This is the only reference I've seen to beaded trim, though. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 10:53:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFrAPk025018 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:53:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VFrNUq005849; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:53:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFpmBm016074 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:51:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFplPx086791; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:51:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k2VFpg8v086697 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:51:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 8456 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2006 15:51:31 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:51:31 -0800 Received: from 67.169.138.79 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:52:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1087.67.169.138.79.1143820345.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:52:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early 1800's beading From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:53:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D5073.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > I recently was given an early "head's up" that the Island will be hosting > 1812 events for the next several years, leading up to the 200th > anniversary and have been asked to display my beadwork - however, as my > focus is ACW and Edwardian, this is 50 - 100 years earlier than my > research has focused on. > > I have not been very successful in finding information on the use of > beaded accessories or dress trims in regards to those of European > background for this time period - can anyone suggest some good > references? Kelly, I don't think beading and dress trims were very popular at that time. I have seen some fabric self-trim on some dresses and *lots* of embroidery. The styles at that time were supposed to be more "simple" to get away from the excesses of the late 1700's styles. If you have been asked to display beading, maybe you can ask to display embroidery instead? You will have an easier time finding examples..... Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 11:01:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VG1VdH025210 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:01:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VG1hbX020362; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:01:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VG1UuN017372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:01:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VG1CxA095315; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:01:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smapp02.siteprotect.com (smapp02.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VG16Og095201 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:01:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from smapp02.csee.chicago.hostway (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smapp02.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4469E13CFF for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:01:05 -0600 (CST) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] droolworthy victorian X-Origin: 65.164.18.144 X-Sender: cschmitt@genteelarts.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:01:05 -0600 X-Uidl: 270.8d68256.315ea38e@aol.com X-Mailer: AtMail 4.2 Message-Id: <20060331160105.4469E13CFF@smapp02.siteprotect.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2VG16Og095201 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:01:46 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D5267.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Fri Mar 31 10:23 , AlbertCat@aol.com sent: >Being from NC, I don't understand what all that "western" gear has to do >with either of the Carolinas. The Bustle gowns are fun though! The "western" gear is related to the sport - Single Action Shooting (aka SASS) - rather than the location. It's great fun, and any competition that requires costumes is a plus in my book. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 1-4, 2007 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 12:17:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHH7rT026557 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:17:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VHHJsC027866; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:17:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHGhoS028341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:16:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHGawB059530; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:16:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHGV8O059369 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:16:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.35f.10d37bc (15865) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:16:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v108_r3.6) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df9442d63e3168; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:16:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <442D476E.20602@reddawn.net> References: <442D476E.20602@reddawn.net> Message-Id: <7fde55ee665d4070cfe708855f643bda@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] droolworthy victorian Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:16:16 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:17:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D641F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k2VHH7rT026557 Status: RO THANKS! Mounted shooting is next on our agenda, since one of our horses is 32 years old and still loves to run but can't do it for long. This is ideal for him. He can run the ring twice then rest. My husband can shoot off his back. Everyone is happy! PS- I can't hit the ground with my hat and my horse is "slow as molasses in January" but I wouldn't trade him for any other horse! Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 31, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Dawn wrote: > Oh my! > > http://www.carolinabelles.net/ > > "Our Mission: To encourage, educate, and empower women in all aspects > of Cowboy Action Shooting sports and all things Victorian." > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 12:30:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHTxqP027177 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:29:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VHUB2d001589; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:30:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHSALu030013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:28:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHS0Wr070252; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:28:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com ([216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHRrUr070134 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:27:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A52C8E30074; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:21:48 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Clothes fitting Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:26:58 -0800 Message-ID: <001301c654e8$5072bb40$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <72adc2660603310639x5b7f9149t648360e86881834c@mail.gmail.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2VHRrUr070134 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:30:15 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D6723.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Mari, do you know of the custom fit jeans available from Levis? Sharon -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Marie Stewart Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:39 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting Thank you for that article... very interesting. Now what the retailers are missing is the opportunity to expand, and raise their sales. Imagine... A large chain adopts the Fitlogic system. Inside their stores, they create separate boutiques, or even a small independent entity. One for each body type. Stock the items that flatter that body type the most in their respective sections. In larger chains you could even have different stock for a particular body type in different stores. If a customer finds something they like in one section, but it is not their body type, allow them to order (or request from another store) that item in the fit they want. This wouldn't be anything revolutionary, major chains already swap clothing around between stores. How many women would love to have a store that they knew the items would be a better fit. You see it already, women have brand loyalty, if a line provides better fit. Oooooh, just think about it... stores might actually have to sell more items on style and quality if they took out the fit roulette. Mari - still irked that Banana Republic stopped making "the perfect fitting jean" in 1992. >Clothes That Fit the Woman, Not the Store > By MICHAEL BARBARO > Published: March 31, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 12:50:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHoNbq028030 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:50:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VHoZgH012161; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:50:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHoBpB033422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:50:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHo412092107; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:50:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VHnuZF091972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:50:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 71-81-238-29.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([71.81.238.29]:21969 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FPNl3-00009x-8z for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:50:02 -0600 Message-ID: <035701c654eb$86dff5f0$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060330184615.03567668@64.87.54.245> <7.0.1.0.2.20060330191347.02311210@surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] French site help dating Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:49:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:50:38 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D6BEB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Judging by the styles, it's c1500-1510. Interestingly enough (ok, maybe only to me) there's a heavy Spanish influence in a lot of the gowns worn by the main characters and in the silhouettes of the more normal Franco-Flemish gowns. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 13:13:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VIDg18028377 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:13:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VIDsJ1023349; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:13:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VIDU43036517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VIDO3F013058; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:13:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VI70j9007724 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:07:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B1D3B624 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:07:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <442D6FC2.2060302@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:06:58 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] droolworthy victorian References: <442D476E.20602@reddawn.net> <7fde55ee665d4070cfe708855f643bda@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <7fde55ee665d4070cfe708855f643bda@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:13:58 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D7163.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Susan Data-Samtak wrote: > > PS- I can't hit the ground with my hat and my horse is "slow as molasses > in January" but I wouldn't trade him for any other horse! > Like their website says, "It's not how good you shoot, it's how good you look while shooting. " Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 13:30:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VIULru028578 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:30:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VIUYK2032152; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:30:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VITq5i038914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:29:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VITjSG026940; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:29:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VITfX1026858 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:29:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l8so897546nzf for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:29:40 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=cc0Rsxaggnq4801HpjSrpOVtXWuDHlA2xDFFDmt7yxlWY5rSg07QXS190IvYFpKBA18pbCx5Pg/4zJj5EVnM7yzySVb2UqzJL+gAbmLuxzNSUho6KWqzakNvXsJ/X88CMJ6RiwI1QulQMOJskmYijTmw0Lw0mXsYUvSlXWPMGjE= Received: by 10.65.230.6 with SMTP id h6mr358128qbr; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:29:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.40.6 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:29:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <72adc2660603311029m6c673652pf3d18a470037d29b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:29:40 -0500 From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting In-Reply-To: <001301c654e8$5072bb40$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <72adc2660603310639x5b7f9149t648360e86881834c@mail.gmail.com> <001301c654e8$5072bb40$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2VITfX1026858 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:30:37 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D754A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Yeup... and I thought seriously about trying a pair... but in the end found another maker of jeans that fit - sigh - well enough, although I am always wanting the denim to be of a heavier weight. On 3/31/06, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > Mari, do you know of the custom fit jeans available from Levis? > Sharon > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Marie Stewart > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:39 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting > > > Thank you for that article... very interesting. > > Now what the retailers are missing is the opportunity to expand, and raise > their sales. > > Imagine... A large chain adopts the Fitlogic system. Inside their > stores, they create separate boutiques, or even a small independent entity. > One for each body type. Stock the items that flatter that body type the > most in their respective sections. In larger chains you could even have > different stock for a particular body type in different stores. If a > customer finds something they like in one section, but it is not their body > type, allow them to order (or > request from another store) that item in the fit they want. This > wouldn't be anything revolutionary, major chains already swap clothing > around between stores. > > How many women would love to have a store that they knew the items would be > a better fit. You see it already, women have brand loyalty, if a line > provides better fit. > > Oooooh, just think about it... stores might actually have to sell more > items on style and quality if they took out the fit roulette. > > Mari - still irked that Banana Republic stopped making "the perfect > fitting jean" in 1992. > > >Clothes That Fit the Woman, Not the Store > > By MICHAEL BARBARO > > Published: March 31, 2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 13:49:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VIn4Ji028887 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:49:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VInHTm009410; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:49:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VImTBa041147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:48:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VImRGC043218; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:48:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from linda-1.paradise.net.nz (bm-1a.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VImLxv043120 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:48:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (tclsnelb1-src-1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.172]) by linda-1.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IX0003OA9KK1M@linda-1.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 06:48:20 +1200 (NZST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (210-246-24-98.paradise.net.nz [210.246.24.98]) by smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7CC6316698 for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 06:48:19 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 06:48:20 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting In-reply-to: <72adc2660603310639x5b7f9149t648360e86881834c@mail.gmail.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <442D7974.2010406@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) References: <72adc2660603310639x5b7f9149t648360e86881834c@mail.gmail.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:49:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D79AD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Marie Stewart wrote: > Thank you for that article... very interesting. > > Now what the retailers are missing is the opportunity to expand, and > raise their sales. > > Imagine... A large chain adopts the Fitlogic system. Inside their > stores, they create separate boutiques, or even a small independent > entity. One for each body type. Stock the items that flatter that > body type the most in their respective sections. Noooo! I don't want to run back and forth across a store every time I have to think about whether a "straight" or a "curvy" fits better! Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 14:06:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJ65QG029140 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:06:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VJ6IBs019115; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:06:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJ659F043609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:06:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJ5vmt060476; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:05:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJ5sIa060349 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l8so908526nzf for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=AxBadFR512bPgRtGRZIYhm4Qu2McptmxEqKqCks6oYclTSz185UypRDb9OEDp3VVLE00/+WUk3Iw06zReBOPb5IfYrX5QMNAc1GV3WDx0Yr7UtDThDIqaPvMFCgKvZpILVpjBDWdT5ZgT7t3an5d1O4Akm1ZRpg8HjW+/kOdq9c= Received: by 10.64.180.3 with SMTP id c3mr42531qbf; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.40.6 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <72adc2660603311105x794ec5e6k6d38fb34276c21b2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:05:47 -0500 From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting In-Reply-To: <442D7974.2010406@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <72adc2660603310639x5b7f9149t648360e86881834c@mail.gmail.com> <442D7974.2010406@paradise.net.nz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k2VJ5sIa060349 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:06:21 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D7DAA.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO *chuckle* I can see how that image pops to mind. But the idea, or at least my hope, is that I would know, once I had used the system a bit, that the "curvy" cuts fit me reliably best. But hey... You do have a point that should be considered. And, on the bright side, at least it would be running across one store, and not to several. Bridgette ; > > Noooo! I don't want to run back and forth across a store every time I > have to think about whether a "straight" or a "curvy" fits better! > > Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 14:32:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJWBgS029504 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:32:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VJWNIO032508; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:32:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJVvoc046732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:31:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJVo70084791; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:31:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJVkwM084578 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:31:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with SMTP id <0IX000BE7BKEBD4I@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:31:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:31:22 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Clothes fitting In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:32:26 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D83C7.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Susan-- Is it possibel to cut and paste this article, most of the attachments show nothing. Thanks! Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Susan Data-Samtak Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 9:20 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Clothes fitting << Clothes That Fit the Woman, Not the Store Sign In to E-Mail This Printer-Friendly Reprints Save Article _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 14:55:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJtVPK029844 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:55:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VJthcE011231; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:55:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJtLT6051134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:55:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJtJQ6005971; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:55:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJtESM005893 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:55:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CDD211275 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:55:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060331115335.038382b8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:55:15 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:55:47 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442D893F.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 06:19 AM 3/31/2006, you wrote: >It is a noble pursuit that has long eluded the clothing industry: a >standardized sizing system that would allow consumers to navigate the >frustrating world of off-the-rack apparel, where size varies from retailer >to retailer. > Thanks for sharing this one. If I had known about the system, I would be willing to try and actually buy a pair of pants. I haven't bought any pants in a long while, because I am disgusted with how they don't fit. Which reminds me... I need to make a few pairs with the new sloper pants system I recently learned. Here's hoping to a well fitting pair of pants on this pear body. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 17:12:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMCeIE000394 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:12:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VMCqZO014896; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:12:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMC89j069320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:12:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMBxxE028976; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJ3TKH058030 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:03:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB71C11515 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:03:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060331105918.0362c980@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:59:52 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] French site help dating In-Reply-To: <000b01c6548a$9586d760$a0399b04@HELENPINTO> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060330184615.03567668@64.87.54.245> <000b01c6548a$9586d760$a0399b04@HELENPINTO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:12:55 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442DA964.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 10:15 PM 3/30/2006, you wrote: >The images on the page are from Ovid's _Heroides_, which is written in the >form of letters from famous women (mostly mythological) of antiquity to >their lovers. IIRC, all the affairs ended badly. Anyway, the illuminated >manuscript is MS Francais 874, held in the Bibliotheque Nationale de >France in Paris, and it is believed to have been created sometime between >1498 and 1502. > > -Helen/Aidan Ah, Wonderful. Thank you so much Helen, that's what I was trying to figure out, and was failing miserably at. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 17:13:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from minos.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMD4IN000404 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:13:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by minos.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VMDHaE018076; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:13:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMD69n069412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:13:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMD6uA029967; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJ3TMe058047 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:03:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7F9B1167B for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:03:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060331110054.03715a08@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:03:31 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] French site help dating In-Reply-To: <035701c654eb$86dff5f0$e100a8c0@compaqub> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060330184615.03567668@64.87.54.245> <7.0.1.0.2.20060330191347.02311210@surewest.net> <035701c654eb$86dff5f0$e100a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (minos.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.142]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:13:20 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442DA97D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 09:49 AM 3/31/2006, you wrote: >Judging by the styles, it's c1500-1510. Interestingly enough (ok, maybe >only to me) there's a heavy Spanish influence in a lot of the gowns worn >by the main characters and in the silhouettes of the more normal >Franco-Flemish gowns. > >-E House Hmmmm... Spanish influence? What specificially is the differences, besides the odd farthingale skirt I was seeing. I thought I was seeing Italian in like the sleeves, but I wasn't sure, and I haven't gotten a chance to read more of my book on Spanish costumes yet to know the differences. Not like I know much about Italians, other than what I've seen here and there. Thanks. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 17:13:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMD8M4000405 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:13:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aeacus.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k2VMDKcV024413; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:13:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMCwYt069392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:12:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VMCwWU029852; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:12:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VJ3Tq0058040 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:03:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-119.cvip.net [129.8.207.119]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E861167A for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:03:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20060331110000.037ea140@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:00:32 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] French site help dating In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060330191347.02311210@surewest.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060330184615.03567668@64.87.54.245> <7.0.1.0.2.20060330191347.02311210@surewest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (aeacus.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.144]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:13:23 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442DA980.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 07:15 PM 3/30/2006, you wrote: >The style of clothing seems to be early 16th century, say before >1530. Think young Henry VIII. Hi Joan, I agree, but I needed to know when before 1530, to see if they were applicable to my research. Thanks, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 19:46:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k310kY2l003313 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:46:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k310kknq010762; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:46:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k310k7cY086718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:46:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k310k3qh054691; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:46:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k310k1gp054675 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:46:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l37so723904nfc for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:46:00 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KdQs1wLd0qy80wl/fynCEsWITZTYsAfK/aCyRyeFtZwook769pc+sKOMYnxA1F7awgTKGfuH956N6NxVsqxS9PCPbleFORzoau7ntZojcxlXoV7gcPfSBSbYeCOoFyhtfWjTVmjqAFYplEXOGOIFFSXUmhc2sASB3gIoQSsXLEE= Received: by 10.48.221.10 with SMTP id t10mr560788nfg; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:46:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.222.15 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:46:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8296995c0603311646s1f30466bo2278d38f4a5ed3b8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:46:00 -0800 From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060331115335.038382b8@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060331115335.038382b8@64.87.54.245> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k310k1gp054675 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:46:49 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442DCD76.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO What magazine/journal was this article from? I have gmail and I didn't see any reference to links or anything. I'd like to be able to search for the article in an online library and get the links. TIA, LynnD On 3/31/06, Kimiko Small wrote: > At 06:19 AM 3/31/2006, you wrote: > >It is a noble pursuit that has long eluded the clothing industry: a > >standardized sizing system that would allow consumers to navigate the > >frustrating world of off-the-rack apparel, where size varies from retailer > >to retailer. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 20:57:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k311vJJ0004492 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:57:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k311vVHt002422; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:57:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k311v8Mf093161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:57:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k311v4YY000978; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:57:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mail.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k311v12p000840 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:57:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.229.90c55f6 (15886) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:56:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v108_r3.6) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-3e0e442dddde7f; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:56:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) To: Historical Costume Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Fwd: [h-cost] Clothes fitting - gotta start somewhere Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:56:44 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:57:35 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442DDE0B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO << > From: "Marie Stewart" > Date: March 31, 2006 1:25:19 PM EST > To: "Susan Data-Samtak" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting - gotta start somewhere > > Great Idea! Thank you! Mari > > On 3/31/06, Susan Data-Samtak wrote: >> I only replied to you. Shall I forward your reply to me, back to the >> list? >> >> We can start with articulate people who know sewing and fit, to get >> the >> ball rolling. >> >> Susan >> >> "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel >> too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark >> Trail" by Louis L'Amour >> >> On Mar 31, 2006, at 10:06 AM, Marie Stewart wrote: >> >>> That's an excellent question... Let me think about this a bit. >>> >>> Right off the top of my head I say Write to them. You know most of >>> the big chain department stores, Macy's, Hechts, Belk's, Ivy's, >>> Nordstrom's have websites. Let's write to them. Letters always >>> seem to carry more weight, but more people are willing to dash off a >>> 30 second email. >>> >>> Also, let's focus. If we scatter our efforts we dilute our impact. >>> Let's choose one or two chains that are densely packed regionally. >>> That will facilitate women getting to the stores, and the stores >>> swapping garments. Also, I would guess focus on the mid-range to >>> mid-upper range stores. Especially stores that cater to the >>> professional woman - Talbot's perhaps, or a similar chain. Stores >>> catering to the lower income people might not feel that their >>> clientel >>> want or value fit as much. >>> >>> Also, let's get more articles about this system - out there. >>> Magazines, web sites, newspaper articles. Letters to the editors. >>> The more people who know, the more women who value fit will be >>> interested in seeing this system implemented. >>> >>> Emphasize the time saving strategy of this way of shopping, not just >>> the better fit. Personal note... If I knew I could pick up 3 pairs >>> of >>> pants that I liked the look of and that they would fit, and not have >>> to try all three pairs on... you have just save me 10-15 minutes in >>> the dressing room. I have more time to shop. >>> >>> Stores follow the money, and the primary way the consumer makes an >>> impact is by withholding the money. >>> >>> Now that we know this system is out there... have people ask for it. >>> Word of mouth. Every time they walk into a store. "Where are the >>> FitLogic clothes?"... "Do you carry FitLogic clothes?" >>> >>> Educate the sales people, who will tell their managers, who will >>> tell >>> their supeervisors, who will talk to the director.... and up and >>> so >>> on. >>> >>> That's off the top of my head. Other ideas? >>> >>> On 3/31/06, Susan Data-Samtak wrote: >>>> So, Marie, how do we tell THEM how we feel? >>>> >>>> Susan >>>> >>>> "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel >>>> too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark >>>> Trail" by Louis L'Amour >>>> >>>> On Mar 31, 2006, at 9:39 AM, Marie Stewart wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you for that article... very interesting. >>>>> >>>>> Now what the retailers are missing is the opportunity to expand, >>>>> and >>>>> raise their sales. >>>>> >>>>> Imagine... A large chain adopts the Fitlogic system. Inside >>>>> their >>>>> stores, they create separate boutiques, or even a small >>>>> independent >>>>> entity. One for each body type. Stock the items that flatter that >>>>> body type the most in their respective sections. In larger chains >>>>> you >>>>> could even have different stock for a particular body type in >>>>> different stores. If a customer finds something they like in one >>>>> section, but it is not their body type, allow them to order (or >>>>> request from another store) that item in the fit they want. This >>>>> wouldn't be anything revolutionary, major chains already swap >>>>> clothing around between stores. >>>>> >>>>> How many women would love to have a store that they knew the items >>>>> would be a better fit. You see it already, women have brand >>>>> loyalty, >>>>> if a line provides better fit. >>>>> >>>>> Oooooh, just think about it... stores might actually have to sell >>>>> more items on style and quality if they took out the fit roulette. >>>>> >>>>> Mari - still irked that Banana Republic stopped making "the >>>>> perfect >>>>> fitting jean" in 1992. >>>>> >>>>>> Clothes That Fit the Woman, Not the Store >>>>>> By MICHAEL BARBARO >>>>>> Published: March 31, 2006 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>> >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Mar 31 21:12:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (cerberus.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k312CaYK004713 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:12:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k312Cn7T007374; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:12:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k312C6SL094260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:12:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k312C5f0010761; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:12:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k312C1k2010647 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:12:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.3.) id 6.233.9a21cc5 (16111) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:11:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v108_r3.6) with ESMTP id MAILINID123-3eef442de1653c4; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:11:49 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: <8296995c0603311646s1f30466bo2278d38f4a5ed3b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060331115335.038382b8@64.87.54.245> <8296995c0603311646s1f30466bo2278d38f4a5ed3b8@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Message-Id: <748ef76153a308b9034ca2bad81433ca@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothes fitting-link- here it is Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:11:48 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [192.168.128.178]); Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:12:52 -0500 (EST) X-Miltered: at rhadamanthus with ID 442DE1A1.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed << --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed This page was sent to you by:=A0 jsamtak@patmedia.net Message from sender: FYI BUSINESS =A0 | March 31, 2006 Clothes That Fit the Woman, Not the Store By MICHAEL BARBARO A Dallas company has developed a sizing system it hopes will allow=20 consumers to better navigate the world of off-the-rack apparel. --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 1. Scans Show Different Growth for Intelligent Brains 2. Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer 3. A Preacher's Credo: Eliminate the Negative, Accentuate Prosperity 4. Personal Health: A Chance Find, and Voil=E0! Goodbye, Hot Flashes.=20 Hello, Sleep. 5. Op-Ed Contributor: A Poverty of the Mind =BB=A0 Go to Complete List --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". =A0- "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Mar 31, 2006, at 7:46 PM, Lynn Downward wrote: > What magazine/journal was this article from? I have gmail and I didn't > see any reference to links or anything. I'd like to be able to search > for the article in an online library and get the links. > > TIA, > LynnD > > On 3/31/06, Kimiko Small wrote: >> At 06:19 AM 3/31/2006, you wrote: >>> It is a noble pursuit that has long eluded the clothing industry: a >>> standardized sizing system that would allow consumers to navigate the >>> frustrating world of off-the-rack apparel, where size varies from=20 >>> retailer >>> to retailer. >>> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --Apple-Mail-5-194067210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --Apple-Mail-5-194067210--