From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Aug 31 20:08:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8108gaD019909 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:08:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8108ZFU023707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:08:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8108Kqw017898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8108IoD009217; Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:08:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cirrus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.92]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8108EKu009148 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail3.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.166]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50B1217005F for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:08:12 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-120-16.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-120-16.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.120.16]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:08:12 +1000 Message-ID: <1157069292.44f779ecc06a3@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:08:12 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman Soldiers References: <20060831144244.40281.qmail@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060831144244.40281.qmail@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:08:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44F77A03.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > > So the question is - Any ideas for cheap, easy to > apply replacements for the boas? Yeah, those curved acrylic brushes woven into a twisted wire that are usually shoved onto a long pole and used for cobweb removal and chimmey cleaning...similar construction to pipe cleaners and some toilet brushes but fuller and longer. They come in several colours including a reddish and will hold shape. Hardware stores or specialist cleaning stores should be able to help, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 1 15:28:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k81JS4N3022124 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:28:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k81JRvUR016348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:28:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k81JRPLs067156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:27:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k81JRIpC039589; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:27:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k81JRBtm039382 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from M311@aol.com) Received: from M311@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c3b.1574bf0 (43930) for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:27:00 -0400 (EDT) From: M311@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:27:00 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] displaying handkercheif X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:28:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44F889BD.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO My family recently received a handkerchief that my grandfather gave one of his sisters about 89 years ago. It is printed on with a picture and poem written on it. I was thinking about displaying it in a shadow box. None of us are for sure what the fiber is but it is shiny and thin--it doesn't feel or look like cotton and some thought maybe it was silk. Any suggestions on displaying it besides use non-acid materials, don't let the glass touch it and keep out of direct sunlight. The lady who gave it is a descendant of the one it was originally give to and thought she was helping by having it dry cleaned before giving it to us. Do I need to do anything about that before displaying it so that it will last a long time. Thanks for your advice. Kelly m311@aol.com www.mysensaria.com/time2spa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 00:32:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824W8dt001764 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:32:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k824W11N005227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:32:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824VLGC032205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:31:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824VENI023001; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:31:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824VBt0022960 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:31:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A7A71EB9032E; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:25:11 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:31:18 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c6ce48$a2f796e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k824VBt0022960 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 00:32:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44F90941.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO By then, it will probably be on disc, so much more portable. :-) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of monica spence Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:53 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet The problem with costume books is that they are all too general. If you want to see the most artwork-- use Davenport. However, the book is in B&W, the pics are small and the text is gossipy. If you are looking for specific periods , a how to : The Janet Arnold books, Norah Waugh, The Tudor Tailor, The Medieval Tailor's assistant, the Jean Hunniset books. They have various degrees of historical accuracy. For the various periods, there are specialty books like Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlo'ked, Moda di Firenze, Hispanic Costume, etc. Very specific time periods. A pretty good source for life and times is the Time-Life series: What life was like" Loaded with color pics and decent short essays. The Tortora/ Eubanks book does not have nearly enough color pics. (We use that as the new text where I teach) One day there will be the perfect textbook. It will weigh 100lbs and cost $2000. :-) Monica Spence -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 00:35:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824Z4g2001809 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:35:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k824YwKQ006495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:35:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824YXFB032398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:34:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824YXPV024539; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:34:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824YTNQ024521 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A86EDA702C6; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:28:30 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:34:37 -0700 Message-ID: <002601c6ce49$198f6440$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20060831084454.00c18bd0@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k824YTNQ024521 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 00:35:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44F909F2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO What do you all think of "Historic Costume for the Stage", by Lucy Barton? Sharon C. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Luckham Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:57 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet I just finished a college level program that used "Survey of Historic Costume: A History of Western Dress" by Phyllis G. Tortora, Keith Eubank. It's current and it brushes past history and costume, combining social and political influences. As someone who was already very interested in historic costume before I took the class, I must admit, I found this book vague and well, lacking. My favourite for teaching a class on Historic Costume would be 20,000 Years of Fashion by Francois Boucher. I like the text and I like that it is full of art that illustrates style. Dawn Luckham _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 00:55:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824tYcu003338 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:55:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k824tRJS011859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:55:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824t8rl034180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:55:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824t74b033685; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824t4qS033656 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:55:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD40118002E2; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:49:04 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Roman Soldiers Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:55:12 -0700 Message-ID: <002701c6ce4b$f9608840$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20060831144244.40281.qmail@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 00:55:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44F90EBF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Take a "Swiffer" duster, fluff it as the directions say, then spray paint it red. Hot melt glue to helmets. The paint should make it stiff. Or just use them unpainted for a softer look. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of REBECCA BURCH Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 7:43 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Roman Soldiers Here's an interesting problem we could use your collective input on: I ran into a woman I know yesterday and she presented me with an interesting question. Seems she has taken over the costumes for a local Bethlehem Walk and is in a little bit of a panic. A little background - a Bethlehem Walk is scenes from the life of Jesus. This particular one is presented by a group of about 10 country churches here in my little corner of Southeastern Ohio. Many of the churches are lucky if they have a congregation of more than 20 folks. They aren't interested in historical accuracy just general impression - since none of the audience stays in one place for more than a couple minutes as they walk past the setting. Plus the Walk takes place outside in the evenings over Thanksgiving weekend. So it is pretty dark and the players are generally bundled up under all their robes. All that said, the major frustration at the moment is the helmets for the Roman soldiers. Currently they are using baseball batting helmets worn backwards with - get this - red feather boas glued across the top. There is nothing to be done about the helmets - they were donated and there is no money to replace them - but the feathers across the top seem to have molted terribly over the summer. So the question is - Any ideas for cheap, easy to apply replacements for the boas? Any ideas will be greatfully accepted. Thanks Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 00:57:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824uxra003676 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:56:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k824urfH012356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:56:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824uTRc034389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:56:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824uTOV034350; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:56:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:GG7Zd5sKy/oj+JLrjZE3p2D0bFMKobU6@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k824uPl5034327 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:56:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.111] (206-124-5-111.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.111]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k824oAf04290 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:50:10 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <002501c6ce48$a2f796e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <002501c6ce48$a2f796e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4b817ab1804bf19cbf1003338151c181@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:56:22 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 00:56:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44F90F15.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Since nobody seems to think there is one really good textbook, maybe I'll consider writing one myself! Of course they are all too general to people like us who specialize in historical costumes, but sometime you really need just a good overview, which is what I need now. Sylrog On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:31 PM, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > By then, it will probably be on disc, so much more portable. :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > Behalf Of monica spence > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:53 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet > > > The problem with costume books is that they are all too general. If > you want > to see the most artwork-- use Davenport. However, the book is in B&W, > the > pics are small and the text is gossipy. If you are looking for > specific > periods , a how to : The Janet Arnold books, Norah Waugh, The Tudor > Tailor, > The Medieval Tailor's assistant, the Jean Hunniset books. They have > various > degrees of historical accuracy. > > For the various periods, there are specialty books like Queen > Elizabeth's > Wardrobe Unlo'ked, Moda di Firenze, Hispanic Costume, etc. Very > specific > time periods. > > A pretty good source for life and times is the Time-Life series: What > life > was like" Loaded with color pics and decent short essays. > > The Tortora/ Eubanks book does not have nearly enough color pics. (We > use > that as the new text where I teach) > > One day there will be the perfect textbook. It will weigh 100lbs and > cost > $2000. :-) > > Monica Spence > > > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point > of > doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 01:09:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8259PtW004870 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:09:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8259I3x020104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:09:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82593iC035515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:09:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82592lj040886; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:09:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8258wrc040833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:09:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k82610a6008411 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 02:01:00 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:24:17 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <002601c6ce49$198f6440$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <002601c6ce49$198f6440$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609020024.17326.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 01:09:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44F911FE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Saturday 02 September 2006 12:34 am, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > What do you all think of "Historic Costume for the Stage", by Lucy Barton? It happens to have been one of the first costume books I read. My recollection is that it's not bad. It uses redrawings almost exclusively, but they're good redrawings that give a reasonably accurate idea of the period silhouette. However, it's weak in ancient and medieval costume and gives most attention to the 16th through 19th centuries. There is also a chapter that gives suggestions for fabric choices for various period costumes for theatrical purposes. Since the choices are geared to how the costumes would look under stage lights and not to reenactment purposes, it may be less useful for some members of this list. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 01:16:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825G3cC005383 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:16:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k825FvKF022818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:16:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825FXRA036214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:15:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825FWXH044227; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:15:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825FRE8044151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:15:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8267TUs008555 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 02:07:29 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:30:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <002501c6ce48$a2f796e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <4b817ab1804bf19cbf1003338151c181@ntw.net> In-Reply-To: <4b817ab1804bf19cbf1003338151c181@ntw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609020030.46436.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 01:16:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44F9138D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Saturday 02 September 2006 12:56 am, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > Since nobody seems to think there is one really good textbook, maybe > I'll consider writing one myself! Of course they are all too general > to people like us who specialize in historical costumes, but sometime > you really need just a good overview, which is what I need now. Well, but hold on. How much information do you think constitutes "a good overview"? What would you like to see in such a book? Maybe such a book exists, but none of us understands what you're looking for so we don't know how to respond. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 01:25:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825Pm6g006119 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:25:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k825PfjK023311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:25:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825OxfZ036996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:24:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825OvTj049057; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:24:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:WpDPt1kAMfhRwjQFPh5n5L4bszmB5TLz@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825OqSW049016 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:24:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.111] (206-124-5-111.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.111]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k825Iaf05757 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:18:36 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <200609020030.46436.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <002501c6ce48$a2f796e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <4b817ab1804bf19cbf1003338151c181@ntw.net> <200609020030.46436.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <9d344e0a28fa719ce9f59bb5ffdc6be2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:24:49 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 01:25:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44F915D5.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I think that there are a lot of very good experts in historical costuming on this list who may very rightly feel that it is almost impossible to cover all periods in one book and I agree to an extent. It's just that I keep hearing that over and over after I've explained that I'm teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries and can only devote a very small segment of the time to costume history. Next semester when I'm teaching a class just in costume history naturally I will use more resources, but now I'm just trying to provide a good overview and I myself don't have time to pore over lots of books to review my own understanding. I only found out I was teaching the class 2 weeks before it started. Sylrog On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:30 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Saturday 02 September 2006 12:56 am, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >> Since nobody seems to think there is one really good textbook, maybe >> I'll consider writing one myself! Of course they are all too general >> to people like us who specialize in historical costumes, but sometime >> you really need just a good overview, which is what I need now. > > Well, but hold on. How much information do you think constitutes "a > good > overview"? What would you like to see in such a book? Maybe such a > book > exists, but none of us understands what you're looking for so we don't > know > how to respond. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point > of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 01:33:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825XaqO006739 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:33:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k825XTlJ029591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:33:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825X4PG037427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825X1Ue052605; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:33:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825WwJS052576 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:32:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A62213B002D0; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 05:26:58 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 22:33:05 -0700 Message-ID: <004401c6ce51$4479e5b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9d344e0a28fa719ce9f59bb5ffdc6be2@ntw.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 01:33:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44F917A9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO OK, so try "Historic Costume for the Stage" by Lucy Barton. Since it concerns the basic "look" or silhouette for stage productions, it may be just what you're looking for. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:25 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet I think that there are a lot of very good experts in historical costuming on this list who may very rightly feel that it is almost impossible to cover all periods in one book and I agree to an extent. It's just that I keep hearing that over and over after I've explained that I'm teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries and can only devote a very small segment of the time to costume history. Next semester when I'm teaching a class just in costume history naturally I will use more resources, but now I'm just trying to provide a good overview and I myself don't have time to pore over lots of books to review my own understanding. I only found out I was teaching the class 2 weeks before it started. Sylrog On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:30 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Saturday 02 September 2006 12:56 am, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >> Since nobody seems to think there is one really good textbook, maybe >> I'll consider writing one myself! Of course they are all too general >> to people like us who specialize in historical costumes, but sometime >> you really need just a good overview, which is what I need now. > > Well, but hold on. How much information do you think constitutes "a > good > overview"? What would you like to see in such a book? Maybe such a > book > exists, but none of us understands what you're looking for so we don't > know > how to respond. > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point > of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 01:45:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825jFBf007574 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:45:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k825j8H9031016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:45:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825iqDn038019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:44:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825ioDh057206; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:44:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:9u3Sw61tSZl3Gem3ujXtIVqQW4PTXQoi@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k825ikWo057185 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:44:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.111] (206-124-5-111.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.111]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k825cUf06987 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:38:30 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <004401c6ce51$4479e5b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <004401c6ce51$4479e5b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <69039dd62b3860a0c14afffa842bb75f@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:44:43 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 01:45:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44F91A64.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I didn't mean to rile any feathers. I really do know that you guys have an incredible amount of knowledge, which is why I like this list. As a matter of fact, I was just explaining to my class yesterday that the area of costume has come so far since I studied it back in the dark ages. Back then we didn't have nearly the resources we have now, thanks to people like you. In going through my old books to refamiliarize myself with the subject, I was rapidly becoming aware of how outmoded they had become and how full of inaccuracies they were, which was when I decided to pose my question to the list. My hat really is off to all of you out there. Sylrog On Sep 1, 2006, at 11:33 PM, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > OK, so try "Historic Costume for the Stage" by Lucy Barton. Since it > concerns the basic "look" or silhouette for stage productions, it may > be > just what you're looking for. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:25 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet > > > I think that there are a lot of very good experts in historical > costuming on this list who may very rightly feel that it is almost > impossible to cover all periods in one book and I agree to an extent. > It's just that I keep hearing that over and over after I've explained > that I'm teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries and can > only devote a very small segment of the time to costume history. Next > semester when I'm teaching a class just in costume history naturally I > will use more resources, but now I'm just trying to provide a good > overview and I myself don't have time to pore over lots of books to > review my own understanding. I only found out I was teaching the class > 2 weeks before it started. > > Sylrog > > On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:30 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >> On Saturday 02 September 2006 12:56 am, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >>> Since nobody seems to think there is one really good textbook, maybe >>> I'll consider writing one myself! Of course they are all too general >>> to people like us who specialize in historical costumes, but sometime >>> you really need just a good overview, which is what I need now. >> >> Well, but hold on. How much information do you think constitutes "a >> good >> overview"? What would you like to see in such a book? Maybe such a >> book >> exists, but none of us understands what you're looking for so we don't >> know >> how to respond. >> >> -- >> Cathy Raymond >> >> "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point >> of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 02:25:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k826PQpa017990 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 02:25:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k826PKS4014137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 02:25:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k826ObRl041112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:24:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k826OZrg073719; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k826OV2D073667 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 00:24:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0J4Y00HW8CFJJX04@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:24:12 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet In-reply-to: <002601c6ce49$198f6440$0200a8c0@bob3pc> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 02:25:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44F923D0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I used it as a text in grad school because that was pretty much all there was (shows my age, huh?)Anyway, I don't recommend it. Too many line drawings, no primary source material, weak bibliography. You can do better. Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sharon at Collierfam.com Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 12:35 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet What do you all think of "Historic Costume for the Stage", by Lucy Barton? Sharon C. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Luckham Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:57 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet I just finished a college level program that used "Survey of Historic Costume: A History of Western Dress" by Phyllis G. Tortora, Keith Eubank. It's current and it brushes past history and costume, combining social and political influences. As someone who was already very interested in historic costume before I took the class, I must admit, I found this book vague and well, lacking. My favourite for teaching a class on Historic Costume would be 20,000 Years of Fashion by Francois Boucher. I like the text and I like that it is full of art that illustrates style. Dawn Luckham _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 10:00:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82E0laD013019 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:00:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k82E0eou024413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:00:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82DxwRC083599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 07:59:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82Dxl2K018791; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 07:59:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k82DxhEP018691 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 07:59:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2006090209593716978 for ; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 09:59:37 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k82DxZXQ027155 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 09:59:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002001c6ce98$063a4230$4ba810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c6ce48$a2f796e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc><4b817ab1804bf19cbf1003338151c181@ntw.net><200609020030.46436.cathy@thyrsus.com> <9d344e0a28fa719ce9f59bb5ffdc6be2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 09:59:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:00:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44F98E88.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In your case, I'd use Laver --- First - because it's cheaper than the others & your students already have a lot of books to buy. Second - because it will give good very general overview. In a three/four week segment of another class, they aren't going to have the time to devote all their out-of-class time to just your class. Third - you can, by example, teach them that you can find more sources in art books and all the other books you mention or bring in or show slides from. Teasing them with tidbids of more in-depth knowledge will help them decide to take your more in-depth course next semester. Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 1:24 AM Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet >I think that there are a lot of very good experts in historical costuming >on this list who may very rightly feel that it is almost impossible to >cover all periods in one book and I agree to an extent. It's just that I >keep hearing that over and over after I've explained that I'm teaching a >class in the costume and fashion industries and can only devote a very >small segment of the time to costume history. Next semester when I'm >teaching a class just in costume history naturally I will use more >resources, but now I'm just trying to provide a good overview and I myself >don't have time to pore over lots of books to review my own understanding. >I only found out I was teaching the class 2 weeks before it started. > > Sylrog > > On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:30 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >> On Saturday 02 September 2006 12:56 am, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >>> Since nobody seems to think there is one really good textbook, maybe >>> I'll consider writing one myself! Of course they are all too general >>> to people like us who specialize in historical costumes, but sometime >>> you really need just a good overview, which is what I need now. >> >> Well, but hold on. How much information do you think constitutes "a good >> overview"? What would you like to see in such a book? Maybe such a book >> exists, but none of us understands what you're looking for so we don't >> know >> how to respond. >> >> -- >> Cathy Raymond >> >> "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point >> of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 10:13:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82EDlsn013208 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:13:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k82EDeNi031283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:13:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82EDL9A084835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 08:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82EDKgn027047; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 08:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.188]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82ECnI3026770 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 08:13:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([69.156.108.240]) by tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20060902141248.JKMG1747.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:12:48 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20060902100929.00c0f710@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:12:33 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Subject: RE: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:13:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44F99194.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I think the answer to your question lies within what you hope to accomplish with the textbook. One of the things I found disappointing with "Survey of Historic Costume: A History of Western Dress" by Tortora and Eubank was it was not the type of book I would want to keep for reference in the future. The school I attended was required to make the Costume History course a "history" course to meet "general electives" requirements. Thus, the history component in the text became more important than costume cut and appearance. What do you hope to have your students walk away with when they complete your class? Do you want them to know the societal and political events that effected what people wore? Do you want them to be able to understand how to create the period look? Using a "so-so" textbook can be supplemented with an amazing power point presentation in lecture with tons of great pictures to look at. Pictures are SO important when discussing costume as it always was and still is about visual impact. More prep work for you of course... Perhaps another way to go at it would be to choose some books that will be smashing reference books for the future, but you won't really be teaching directly from them. Janet Arnold and Jean Hunnisett texts come to mind. Also "Fashion" from the Kyoto Institute falls into this category. "Historic Costume for the Stage" by Lucy Barton isn't ringing any immediate bells for me. Isn't this an older work with thick line drawings? If this is the book I'm thinking of, I would avoid this one. You're combining older text (no allowance for updated theories and ideas) with uninspiring visuals. There's lots that's more stimulating to read out there. Use the "Survey" by Tortora if you run out of ideas. It at least, is current and has some visuals. I didn't realize Boucher's "20,000 Years of Fashion" was difficult to get when I suggested it, but it is still by far my favourite overview. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 12:17:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82GH9iG015186 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:17:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k82GH2NO012262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82GGJrc097677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:16:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82GG97O004809; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxs2.wvu.edu (mxs2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.114]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82G7kbm098989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:07:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxs2.wvu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82G7Zaj028974 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:07:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from khoover@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 12:07:35 -0400 Message-Id: <44F973ED0200000C003BA598@WVUGW01.wvu.edu> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 12:07:09 -0400 From: "Kathy Hoover" To: Subject: Re: What would *you* use? (was Re: [h-cost] Racinet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 12:17:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44F9AE7E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO OK--this was my first thought: Well, why don't we *ALL* do it--working together! A Costume Wkipedia! Those who are experts in one time period would write what they know about best. Just like 'Wiki,' anyone else could contribute or edit. I don't know if the Wiki owners run into contibutors arguing about what's right and what's wrong, and what's proven and what's hearsay/theory. It *could* happen--knowing how things can get around here! ;-) And of course it would mean no income for an author, but it would be a great contribution to the "knowledge-base." But then I stopped and realized: This is what Penny is doing with the Costume Gallery and what Tara McGinnis is doing with the Costumer's Manifesto. However we could still all work together on something in book-form if we had someone willing to be the editor! It's a dream, Can it come true? Kathy Hoover >>> Sylvia Rognstad 09/02/06 12:56 AM >>> Since nobody seems to think there is one really good textbook, maybe I'll consider writing one myself! Of course they are all too general to people like us who specialize in historical costumes, but sometime you really need just a good overview, which is what I need now. Sylrog On Sep 1, 2006, at 10:31 PM, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > By then, it will probably be on disc, so much more portable. :-) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 19:18:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82NIMei026200 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:18:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k82NIGSk011414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:18:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82NHeUP049371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:17:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82NHSlZ071229; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:17:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k82NHNWk071186 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 17:17:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.68.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.68] helo=faucet.net) by pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GJejq-000315-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:17:22 -0400 Message-ID: <44FA1E58.6060701@faucet.net> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:14:16 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] new images of Elizabethan gowns online X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:18:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FA1138.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Greetings to all, I've finally gotten some pictures of more of my Elizabethan gowns online. There are six new pages and one old page with better pictures accessible from this menu page: http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/eliz.html Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 20:14:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k830EXac027256 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:14:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k830EQbF020619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:14:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k830E3oK056889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 18:14:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k830DxkX001764; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 18:13:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4.socket.net [216.106.88.196] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k830DuVN001744 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 18:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E61FA36C0B for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:13:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:13:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] It's that time of year X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 20:14:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FA1E62.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Simplicity Costume contest. http://www.simplicity.com/index.cfm?page=section/contests/halloween06/hallow eenContest.htm http://tinyurl.com/ebcz4 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 21:06:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8316gv2028463 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:06:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8316aCV027262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:06:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8315kmv061304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:05:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8315hEa027774; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:05:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8315eBo027750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:05:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GJgQi-0004Rv-Rt; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 20:05:44 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:05:44 -0400 Message-ID: <20060902210544.cmutnhuh0h3484s4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:05:44 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fabric pattern/designs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:06:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FA2A9C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO When did Paisley begin to be seen in "western European" textiles? thanks, susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 22:19:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k832JKYT030088 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:19:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k832JDBq010923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:19:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k832Ie1P067516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:18:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k832IbkV064810; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:18:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k832IWnl064744 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:18:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.235.e698c7d (42805) for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:18:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <235.e698c7d.322b956b@aol.com> Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:18:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric pattern/designs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:19:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FA3BA1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 9/2/2006 9:08:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: When did Paisley begin to be seen in "western European" textiles? Some time in the early 1800s, when European weavers began making imitation cashmere shawls--among the first to do so were in Paisley, Scotland, hence the name. One of the factoids I enjoy telling people when I give talks on early 19th century costume. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 22:47:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k832lgE0030596 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:47:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k832lZQB024598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:47:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k832l8AI069567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:47:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k832l6QA077479; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:47:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k832l2ZU077386 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 20:47:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail42.nyc.untd.com (webmail42.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.182]) by smtpout04.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABCRWSSPA68324S for (sender ); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 19:46:37 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn71Y4j6WmvnxEGnzql0rNBTeszY26MiGvHg== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail42.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LZBF58PJ; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:45:58 PDT Received: from [65.31.114.188] by webmail42.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 02:45:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.31.114.188] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "seamstrix@juno.com" X-UOL-SENDER: penhalion@juno.com Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 02:45:28 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] new images of Elizabethan gowns online X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20060902.194558.1712.409693@webmail42.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:1726882927 X-MAIL-INFO: 49333fda0b9ea32fc38aaec36a274ea38bcea7eaeed7b31bce8e5afe270a7a7b57439f7eaf7e2aaad32aaa1a97aa1a7f436f4e4bdb3e3b4e3f0e4a3ecf3f7337fb3f33bbba9f8b9f07ab1abeaa9f97 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.182|webmail42.nyc.untd.com|webmail42.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:47:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FA4247.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k832lgE0030596 Status: RO Gorgeous work, as usual. It's nice to see your more recent projects. I still like your red brocade gown the best, having seen it in person in all it's glory. Karen Seamstrix -- Melanie Schuessler wrote: Greetings to all, I've finally gotten some pictures of more of my Elizabethan gowns online. There are six new pages and one old page with better pictures accessible from this menu page: http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/eliz.html Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 2 23:52:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k833qags031939 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 23:52:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k833qTXv002539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 23:52:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k833pkWT076136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:51:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k833pgtq009670; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:51:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k833pcpl009637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:51:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GJj1M-0005zq-47; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:51:44 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 02 Sep 2006 23:51:44 -0400 Message-ID: <20060902235144.v4jqotis53lwc0wg@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 23:51:44 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric pattern/designs References: <235.e698c7d.322b956b@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <235.e698c7d.322b956b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 02 Sep 2006 23:52:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FA517D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting AnnBWass@aol.com: > > In a message dated 9/2/2006 9:08:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: > > When did Paisley begin to be seen in "western European" textiles? > > > > > Some time in the early 1800s, when European weavers began making imitation > cashmere shawls--among the first to do so were in Paisley, Scotland, > hence the > name. One of the factoids I enjoy telling people when I give talks on early > 19th century costume. Really. I had it in my mind that it came from India/Persia (or at least *somewhere* in that neck of the woods) and that it was the pattern produced by "block printing the side of the hand ..... Interesting tidbit nonetheless. Wonder where I got my erroneous info from? susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 3 01:47:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k835lDvf000938 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:47:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k835l6bW029043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:47:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k835kSjS085059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 2 Sep 2006 23:46:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k835kOPM058347; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 23:46:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k835kK7Z058324 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2006 23:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FlQ1FVTRwnGeKrL13xBPklytveBG98/99EFYymeMifcG4ggOPdp1kWWrQMz11mA3; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.3.233.202] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.34) id 1GJkoG-0004Du-Gp for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 01:46:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <20060902235144.v4jqotis53lwc0wg@www.goldsword.com> References: <235.e698c7d.322b956b@aol.com> <20060902235144.v4jqotis53lwc0wg@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <632B33F1-8CC0-4874-A2D8-C0EAF510CBA9@earthlink.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric pattern/designs Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:46:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478509ac0f1770e5437ef383fa0e69240cdae7d2fd7800ea053350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.233.202 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 01:47:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FA6C5A.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Sep 2, 2006, at 8:51 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > Quoting AnnBWass@aol.com: > >> >> In a message dated 9/2/2006 9:08:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: >> >> When did Paisley begin to be seen in "western European" textiles? >> >> >> >> >> Some time in the early 1800s, when European weavers began making >> imitation >> cashmere shawls--among the first to do so were in Paisley, >> Scotland, hence the >> name. One of the factoids I enjoy telling people when I give >> talks on early >> 19th century costume. > > Really. I had it in my mind that it came from India/Persia (or at > least *somewhere* in that neck of the woods) and that it was the > pattern produced by "block printing the side of the hand ..... > > Interesting tidbit nonetheless. Wonder where I got my erroneous > info from? The location is roughly accurate but I've never run across the "hand" explanation before. The motif has a fascinating evolution starting out as a stylized "vase and bouquet" motif. Eventually the vase part became vestigial and the bouquet developed that little "droop" at the top point and it turned into the familiar current shape. It was only the last evolutionary stage that became popularized in Europe. Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 3 03:45:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k837j61k002391 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 03:45:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k837ixrU021408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 03:45:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k837iQS3094711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:44:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k837iMeO010562; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:44:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k837iJS7010509 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:44:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48830 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2006 07:44:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=x45CHdE+MMrLcPh6mGcu/X2LiiNPZkhV6pA3f6241dzym9p2+1XtSkoJmkDzLPomC9es65vLslkQx46kjniID8QXEvZkLmsa5OCmMK/UGz6BYB+NbFCmtEOIcC3+64LkuflfiKmCQTbZETSkODPvARB4t2p3qKYOCyoObdhAOCI= ; Message-ID: <20060903074414.48828.qmail@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.34.229.63] by web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 00:44:14 PDT Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 00:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric pattern/designs To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <632B33F1-8CC0-4874-A2D8-C0EAF510CBA9@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:45:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FA87FB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have been assured that the paisley swirl shape is a stylized pinecone. It may have at some time have been made with the side of a closed fist, since that will create a shape very like your basic paisley, but that's just speculation, as far as I know. The name comes from the fabric mills in Scotland, whixch were emulating the design common in India which is much older. Mind you I learned all this on this list, some few years ago. I can't actually vouch for the authenticity of the source, but it did seem like the last word at the time. MaggiRos --- Heather Rose Jones wrote: > > On Sep 2, 2006, at 8:51 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > > Quoting AnnBWass@aol.com: > > > >> > >> In a message dated 9/2/2006 9:08:15 P.M. Eastern > Standard Time, > >> sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: > >> > >> When did Paisley begin to be seen in "western > European" textiles? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Some time in the early 1800s, when European > weavers began making > >> imitation > >> cashmere shawls--among the first to do so were in > Paisley, > >> Scotland, hence the > >> name. One of the factoids I enjoy telling people > when I give > >> talks on early > >> 19th century costume. > > > > Really. I had it in my mind that it came from > India/Persia (or at > > least *somewhere* in that neck of the woods) and > that it was the > > pattern produced by "block printing the side of > the hand ..... > > > > Interesting tidbit nonetheless. Wonder where I > got my erroneous > > info from? > > The location is roughly accurate but I've never run > across the "hand" > explanation before. The motif has a fascinating > evolution starting > out as a stylized "vase and bouquet" motif. > Eventually the vase part > became vestigial and the bouquet developed that > little "droop" at the > top point and it turned into the familiar current > shape. It was only > the last evolutionary stage that became popularized > in Europe. > > > Heather > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 3 06:36:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83AadaU013129 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:36:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k83AaV5G008807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:36:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Aa64o006811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 04:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Aa0pZ083761; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 04:36:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83AZuod083692 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 04:35:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.bee.29e0543 (39330) for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:35:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:35:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric pattern/designs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 06:36:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FAB02F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 9/2/2006 11:53:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: Really. I had it in my mind that it came from India/Persia (or at least *somewhere* in that neck of the woods) and that it was the pattern produced by "block printing the side of the hand ..... No, the design derives from the "cone" or boteh of the earlier shawl, which in turn derives from a flowering plant. I found the article in my files that shows the progression; unfortunately, I don't have an author or any other citation on it. However, this article seems to summarize the same material: _http://www.worldaa.com/article.cfm?article=35_ (http://www.worldaa.com/article.cfm?article=35) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 3 06:53:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Arc2m013371 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:53:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k83ArWbi014590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:53:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83ArBPn007867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 04:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Ar9P7090840; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 04:53:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3.socket.net [216.106.88.97] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Ar6fF090820 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 04:53:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0FB7A3C24F for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 05:53:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] fabric pattern/designs Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 05:53:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20060903074414.48828.qmail@web32711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 06:53:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FAB42C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO http://www.paisley.org.uk/history/pattern.php http://www.victoriana.com/library/paisley/shawl.html This might help answer. De -----Original Message----- I have been assured that the paisley swirl shape is a stylized pinecone. It may have at some time have been made with the side of a closed fist, since that will create a shape very like your basic paisley, but that's just speculation, as far as I know. The name comes from the fabric mills in Scotland, whixch were emulating the design common in India which is much older. Mind you I learned all this on this list, some few years ago. I can't actually vouch for the authenticity of the source, but it did seem like the last word at the time. MaggiRos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 3 13:37:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Hbp4D026802 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:37:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k83Hbj0I009232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:37:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83HarQ3045104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 11:36:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83HamnQ010955; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 11:36:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s11.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s11.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.211]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83HajZD010892 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 11:36:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladycatalina@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.224.40]) by bay0-omc3-s11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:36:39 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 10:36:39 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.224.200 by by105fd.bay105.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:36:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.225.188.103] X-Originating-Email: [ladycatalina@hotmail.com] X-Sender: ladycatalina@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200609021403.k82E3FBr020951@net.indra.com> From: "Catalina Elvira Osorio Lopez de Xerez" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:36:37 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2006 17:36:39.0762 (UTC) FILETIME=[8351F320:01C6CF7F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: displaying and cleaning handerchief X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:37:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FB12E9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO DO NOT have it dry cleaned. Especially without being sure of the material content. Silk is a protein based fiber which does break down over time. Modern dry cleaning chemicals can be very harsh, and might destroy it. If it has to be cleaned, I would suggest something simple like diluted lemon juice if there are any stains. Catalina Sanguinem dumtaxat causam virtutis pendate > >My family recently received a handkerchief that my grandfather gave one of >his sisters about 89 years ago. It is printed on with a picture and poem >written on it. I was thinking about displaying it in a shadow box. None >of us >are for sure what the fiber is but it is shiny and thin--it doesn't feel or >look like cotton and some thought maybe it was silk. Any suggestions on >displaying it besides use non-acid materials, don't let the glass touch it >and keep >out of direct sunlight. The lady who gave it is a descendant of the one it >was originally give to and thought she was helping by having it dry cleaned >before giving it to us. Do I need to do anything about that before >displaying >it so that it will last a long time. >Thanks for your advice. >Kelly >m311@aol.com >www.mysensaria.com/time2spa > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 3 16:39:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Kdp0I030641 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:39:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k83Kdiwr013022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:39:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Kcv5t065073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 14:38:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Kcr7b017733; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 14:38:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52115.mail.yahoo.com (web52115.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k83KcoKm017664 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 14:38:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 9714 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2006 20:38:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PD63easfQHgsWCYyP+Z0kVySlqMuMFz/pwbbhzLq+tztJ1cgliDPDJFf6JLY+rpYDDPEjHDNUFC/vOXg9t4s0MeMtb4IRjvymfVt6yvd5Q4Z3IdM9P6kclxVtjil7yBgKOR0n9b25JkWkMDjycasu+SQu4I7t8YPn3GvUcxO2Rg= ; Message-ID: <20060903203844.9712.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:38:44 PDT Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 13:38:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k83KcoKm017664 Subject: [h-cost] Hourly Wages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 16:39:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FB3D90.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was having yet another *coughcough* discussion with my husband on what the typical hourly wages independant costumers make - what they charge out at for high end work - full suites of clothing, custom designed, in part or fully assembled by machine, complete with embellishments. He seems to think I am on cheap crack, however I have looked into it through employment statistics in my province and country, and have kept a quiet eye on the discussions in the past here and I believe that I am on track for a 5 year plan of establishing my reputation and credibility. He is a frustrating insta-boing type, thinking I should be able to name whatever I please with no justification behind the price tag. Could I run a survey on what those interested and willing to offer cannon fodder on this discussion charge out for work roughly described above, and the currency it is typically quoted at, so I can compare apples to apples? If it seems like a private subject, please feel free to reply offlist. Thanks for anyone willing to save my sanity, Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 3 17:56:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83LudLP031926 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 17:56:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k83LuWov024551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 17:56:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83LtpAk072092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 3 Sep 2006 15:55:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83LtmPf060913; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 15:55:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:WRENSMcVbIiHK9E5pKd7Bi8Dcb5XIcmU@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k83Lti6B060881 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 15:55:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.228] (206-124-5-228.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.228]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k83LnQf25297 for ; Sun, 3 Sep 2006 15:49:26 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <20060903203844.9712.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060903203844.9712.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hourly Wages Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 15:55:43 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k83Lti6B060881 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:56:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FB4F90.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I charge $20 per hour for whatever I do, from sewing to patternmaking to designing. Sylrog On Sep 3, 2006, at 2:38 PM, Kathy Page wrote: > I was having yet another *coughcough* discussion with my husband on > what the typical hourly wages independant costumers make - what they > charge out at for high end work - full suites of clothing, custom > designed, in part or fully assembled by machine, complete with > embellishments. He seems to think I am on cheap crack, however I have > looked into it through employment statistics in my province and > country, and have kept a quiet eye on the discussions in the past here > and I believe that I am on track for a 5 year plan of establishing my > reputation and credibility. He is a frustrating insta-boing type, > thinking I should be able to name whatever I please with no > justification behind the price tag. > > Could I run a survey on what those interested and willing to offer > cannon fodder on this discussion charge out for work roughly described > above, and the currency it is typically quoted at, so I can compare > apples to apples? If it seems like a private subject, please feel free > to reply offlist. > > Thanks for anyone willing to save my sanity, > > Kathy > > Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a > rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert(Fieldless) On a rose > Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. > > Its never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. > http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 06:08:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84A8mkl004804 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 06:08:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84A8fHr019872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 06:08:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84A80wW045340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 04:08:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84A7tTm047605; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 04:07:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84A7nwA047562 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 04:07:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A98D3CA3032E; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 10:01:49 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hourly Wages Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 03:07:47 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c6d009$f9187310$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20060903203844.9712.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k84A7nwA047562 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 06:08:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FBFB29.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO A friend of mine had an Elizabethan court dress and hat made, with removable sleeves and separate underskirt. It was beaded and had a good amount of trim. Quite lovely. I believe she paid about $2,000.00 US. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Page Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 1:39 PM To: Historical Costume List Subject: [h-cost] Hourly Wages I was having yet another *coughcough* discussion with my husband on what the typical hourly wages independant costumers make - what they charge out at for high end work - full suites of clothing, custom designed, in part or fully assembled by machine, complete with embellishments. He seems to think I am on cheap crack, however I have looked into it through employment statistics in my province and country, and have kept a quiet eye on the discussions in the past here and I believe that I am on track for a 5 year plan of establishing my reputation and credibility. He is a frustrating insta-boing type, thinking I should be able to name whatever I please with no justification behind the price tag. Could I run a survey on what those interested and willing to offer cannon fodder on this discussion charge out for work roughly described above, and the currency it is typically quoted at, so I can compare apples to apples? If it seems like a private subject, please feel free to reply offlist. Thanks for anyone willing to save my sanity, Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 07:08:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84B8esG014285 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:08:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84B8XPY020543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:08:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84B89fI051115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 05:08:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84B87C0080199; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 05:08:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84B80Qp080125 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 05:08:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.9647188; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:07:48 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k84B7mb21388.; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 12:07:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:07:47 +0100 Message-Id: <44FC170802000014000BFA1E@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 12:07:36 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] new images of Elizabethan gowns online References: <44FA1E58.6060701@faucet.net> In-Reply-To: <44FA1E58.6060701@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 07:08:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FC0931.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Love the mustard-coloured doublet! Very elegant... Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> Melanie Schuessler 03/09/2006 01:14 >>> Greetings to all, I've finally gotten some pictures of more of my Elizabethan gowns online. There are six new pages and one old page with better pictures accessible from this menu page: http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/eliz.html Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 08:47:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84ClcE7015886 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 08:47:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84ClTOa001543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 08:47:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84CkhSB061400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 06:46:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84Cke0A040052; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 06:46:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84CkZbq039987 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 06:46:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.253.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.253] helo=faucet.net) by pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GKDqU-00066y-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 08:46:34 -0400 Message-ID: <44FC2E2B.9080404@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 08:46:19 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] new images of Elizabethan gowns online References: <20060902.194558.1712.409693@webmail42.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 08:47:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FC2061.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > Gorgeous work, as usual. It's nice to see your more recent projects. > I still like your red brocade gown the best, having seen it in person > in all it's glory. The Gaudy Gown? Yes, that's my favorite as well. Thanks, Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 09:14:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84DEb4I016467 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 09:14:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84DEU78014355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 09:14:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84DDunQ064479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:13:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84DDq1S060036; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:13:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84Cm9BX041090 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 06:48:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.253.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.253] helo=faucet.net) by pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GKDs0-0006Sw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 08:48:08 -0400 Message-ID: <44FC2E89.5050100@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 08:47:53 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] new images of Elizabethan gowns online References: <44FA1E58.6060701@faucet.net> <44FC170802000014000BFA1E@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 09:14:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FC26B6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > Love the mustard-coloured doublet! Very elegant... Thank you! That was my third embroidery project, many years ago. I'm currently working on an embroidered shirt that will hopefully be a little more accomplished, though it will be a long long time before it's finished. Cheers, Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 13:38:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84HcNHk021403 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:38:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84HcEFn019239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:38:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84Hbc1K096046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 11:37:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84HbXwm043909; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 11:37:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k84HbT1u043814 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 11:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 67794 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Sep 2006 17:37:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=JjJytc4N3nfgQ4TfRD9iT7QP1aBK5Hd85svzJ2hROjCOdL8mDtd29ufMp7nmz/EdgC9JAn+SNdnHHLhugYIHpIKzBzNKeeBCWiWeNEQRyTVrH72BFiMezeS87ci8xgPgzoCRb7vA6kNb4TG4z/rKsbv+acOqyvNRqKyzOFbeSAg= ; Message-ID: <20060904173724.67792.qmail@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.34.229.63] by web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 10:37:24 PDT Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 10:37:24 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hourly Wages To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001001c6d009$f9187310$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 13:38:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FC6486.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Clients in my experience want to know in advance how much they'll be paying, so I set a per-hour rate in my head but quote a flat amount depending on the garment and level of ornamentation--with adjustments for anticipated aggravation, of course. :-) That way I don't have to keep careful watch on the clock, or remember that I work more slowly as the day goes on. Not that I do this for a living, but that's the method I developed when I was sewing for other people. Now it's just a recommendation. $2,000 seems quite high, but jewelling and any handwork does take a lot of time. (That's why I learned to sew, in the end.) I guess it depends on what your market will bear. MaggiRos --- "Sharon at Collierfam.com" wrote: > A friend of mine had an Elizabethan court dress and > hat made, with removable > sleeves and separate underskirt. It was beaded and > had a good amount of > trim. Quite lovely. I believe she paid about > $2,000.00 US. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kathy Page > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 1:39 PM > To: Historical Costume List > Subject: [h-cost] Hourly Wages > > > I was having yet another *coughcough* discussion > with my husband on what the > typical hourly wages independant costumers make - > what they charge out at > for high end work - full suites of clothing, custom > designed, in part or > fully assembled by machine, complete with > embellishments. He seems to think > I am on cheap crack, however I have looked into it > through employment > statistics in my province and country, and have kept > a quiet eye on the > discussions in the past here and I believe that I am > on track for a 5 year > plan of establishing my reputation and credibility. > He is a frustrating > insta-boing type, thinking I should be able to name > whatever I please with > no justification behind the price tag. > > Could I run a survey on what those interested and > willing to offer cannon > fodder on this discussion charge out for work > roughly described above, and > the currency it is typically quoted at, so I can > compare apples to apples? > If it seems like a private subject, please feel free > to reply offlist. > > Thanks for anyone willing to save my sanity, > > Kathy > > Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on > the shoulder with a rose > Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved > vert(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed > vert a lion's head erased gules. > > Its never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the > beginning of knowledge. > http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 15:48:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84JmQMx024106 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:48:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84JmKrF006903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:48:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84JlR2s010237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84JlLpM036231; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:47:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.192.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84GIsYa091407 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 10:19:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter74.comcast.net ([204.127.197.156]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060904161847m1100q476de>; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:18:47 +0000 Received: from [67.183.93.199] by rmailcenter74.comcast.net; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 16:18:46 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hourly Wages Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 16:18:46 +0000 Message-Id: <090420061618.4381.44FC51E5000CE26A0000111D22073000330809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 15:48:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FC8304.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sheesh! Yet another husband that wants to get rich quick on the labors of his wife? My ex used to harangue me about this same thing, which I found rather irritating, especially since he enjoyed being on unemployment... IMNSH opinion, if he thinks that he can get the high prices, let him negotiate with the customers. And then have him deal with their nitpicking every little thing to get the final bill reduced; and he can also deal with those who abuse the garment so that a seam fails and then wants free repairs! I suggest that you do your usual quote type thing, and calm the the customer down. I charge $20/hour for garments that have straight basic sewing (no embrodiery work or beading or minimal hand sewing). Charge $25/hour for garments that have embroidery work, beading or lots of handsewing. 3 Fittings are included, but if they miss a fitting without any notice, they pay $10 penalty. If they lose so much weight that alterations are needed before they wear the garments the first time, the hours needed for altering is at the higher rate of $25.00. Anyhow, I found that if I do a flat fee quote, I seriously underestimate the time I spend sewing the garments. On the other hand, folks seem to think they are getting a bargain having me sew for them at my rates, but they still can't afford me. Sad, huh? I don't sew for folks too much anymore, I just don't have the time.. Best of luck with *coughcough* discussing this with your husband.. Elena/Gia -------------- Original message -------------- From: Kathy Page > I was having yet another *coughcough* discussion with my husband on what the > typical hourly wages independant costumers make - what they charge out at for > high end work - full suites of clothing, custom designed, in part or fully > assembled by machine, complete with embellishments. He seems to think I am on > cheap crack, however I have looked into it through employment statistics in my > province and country, and have kept a quiet eye on the discussions in the past > here and I believe that I am on track for a 5 year plan of establishing my > reputation and credibility. He is a frustrating insta-boing type, thinking I > should be able to name whatever I please with no justification behind the price > tag. > > Could I run a survey on what those interested and willing to offer cannon fodder > on this discussion charge out for work roughly described above, and the currency > it is typically quoted at, so I can compare apples to apples? If it seems like a > private subject, please feel free to reply offlist. > > Thanks for anyone willing to save my sanity, > > Kathy > > Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or > barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a > lion's head erased gules. > > Its never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. > http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 15:49:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84JnNFC024119 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:49:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84JnGrM016785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:49:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84Jn3Le010415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:49:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84Jn24R037524; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 13:49:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84ID2TK069358 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 12:13:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.bfc.35afd61 (62976) for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 14:12:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 14:12:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hourly Wages To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 15:49:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FC833C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 9/4/2006 1:39:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, maggiros@yahoo.com writes: $2,000 seems quite high, but jewelling and any handwork does take a lot of time. And I don't think that is high enough. But that is one of the reasons I DON'T sew for other people--I don't think they are, on the whole, willing to pay what I think I'm worth. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 17:10:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84LAFWO025936 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 17:10:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84LA68r027189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 17:10:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84L9YZC019273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84L9TKG090694; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:09:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84L9OfT090605 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:09:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m161.in-tch.com [216.166.191.161]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k84KvvQ18772 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 14:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <001c01c6d067$86370740$a1bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060904173724.67792.qmail@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hourly Wages Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 15:17:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 17:10:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FC962E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Also depends on cost of materials, I'd think. Good quality fabrics, beads, trims could get really expensive, really fast. I strongly suspect that the outfit is more along the lines of a couture-level costume, rather than a cheesy, cotton-broadcloth Elizabethan equivalent of a prom dress from Hellmart..... If the person who made that 2K outfit were giving him/herself a base wage of, say, $25/hour, which is probably pretty low for highly skilled custom sewing (I'm basing this purely on what my old employer from a couple of decades ago used as a base to figure costs for the custom sewing jobs I did), that would only be about 80 hours of labor for the entire outfit, assuming that the raw materials' costs were NOT included in the 2K. I've spent that much time just on beading some things, never mind the 100s of hours one can devote to embroidering something. I'll have something like 15 or 16 hundred hours into the embroidered stripes on my Venetian camicia by the time I'm done. --Sue in Montana, enjoying her rare, Labor Day vacation ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "MaggiRos" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hourly Wages > Clients in my experience want to know in advance how > much they'll be paying, so I set a per-hour rate in my > head but quote a flat amount depending on the garment > and level of ornamentation--with adjustments for > anticipated aggravation, of course. :-) That way I > don't have to keep careful watch on the clock, or > remember that I work more slowly as the day goes on. > > Not that I do this for a living, but that's the method > I developed when I was sewing for other people. Now > it's just a recommendation. > > $2,000 seems quite high, but jewelling and any > handwork does take a lot of time. (That's why I > learned to sew, in the end.) I guess it depends on > what your market will bear. > > MaggiRos > > --- "Sharon at Collierfam.com" > wrote: > > > A friend of mine had an Elizabethan court dress and > > hat made, with removable > > sleeves and separate underskirt. It was beaded and > > had a good amount of > > trim. Quite lovely. I believe she paid about > > $2,000.00 US. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 18:41:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84MfCMR027694 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:41:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k84Mf5BG032229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:41:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84MeVR8027416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:40:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84MeRls046148; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:40:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k84MeLkP046013 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.391.9fa8548 (58808) for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:40:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <391.9fa8548.322e054c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:40:12 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 605 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FCAB81.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Between 5 and 10 per hour, depending on whether I actually want to make it or not!! Or up to about 20-25 per hour for embroidery, depending on the style of stitching or complexity, and again, whether I want to do it or not. Although that generally includes threads unless they're hideously expensive. The wanting to do it or not thing isn't as arbitrary as it sounds - I have kind of a list of stuff that I really want to make, but can't justify spending the time on. I make a couple of bits per year for display and photos for the website, (i.e. just for fun...), at which rate it would take me about 50 yrs to get through the list. So if somebody wants something that's on my list, I give a discount - the amount of discount dependant on how much I want to make it (ok that bit is pretty arbitrary). That said, I do make more than that on a couple of the items I have in stock at markets and the like, for which I charge roughly the going rate. Debbie Oh - ps - the currency is pounds sterling (gbp), but I have a US configured keyboard that won't do pound signs :o) And the 10 - 15 is the most usual price per hour. In a message dated 9/4/06 7:02:20 PM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > Could I run a survey on what those interested and willing to offer cannon > fodder on this discussion charge out for work roughly described above, and the > currency it is typically quoted at, so I can compare apples to apples? If it > seems like a private subject, please feel free to reply offlist. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 20:52:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k850qd4H030204 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:52:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k850qWKw026760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:52:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k850q0cr039945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k850ps5I021263; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:51:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k850ppbK021166 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 18:51:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.414.96964f0 (39329) for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:51:43 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <414.96964f0.322e241f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:51:43 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric pattern/designs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:52:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FCCA50.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 9/2/2006 11:53:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sfarmer@goldsword.com writes: I had it in my mind that it came from India/Persia (or at least *somewhere* in that neck of the woods) and that it was the pattern produced by "block printing the side of the hand ..... *************** Yes I heard that too. And that it represents a pine cone is another thing I seem to remember. This starts in India after the Mongols invade, I believe. But In Europe.....that's another matter.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 4 22:53:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k852rBMD032126 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 22:53:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k852r4Yi016193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 22:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k852qZ6Z051979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:52:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k852qVYw090184; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:52:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.234]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k852qUVB090170 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 20:52:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h26so2306874wxd for ; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:52:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=T0wTgog1Ak1pvzULkmlL+7se7OWYB5yC65BmlJPsW5ZBnXl1FNZxxJj79XFSZJYhLR1hrqy3LjeIyE2ImlyUOBLo0Jt5QpJoaEMTI1p//auSLFmHud/BHZy3esyexXxX4UAJhG2pTv5URpdFTiKxT97UPhN4yYvD/iDs5lwkEaE= Received: by 10.70.90.14 with SMTP id n14mr8910958wxb; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.3 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 19:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac190609041952w40daf43ep83a4c447cc4252e6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 22:52:28 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: new images of Elizabethan gowns online X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:53:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FCE690.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:14:16 -0500 > From: Melanie Schuessler > Subject: [h-cost] new images of Elizabethan gowns online > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: <44FA1E58.6060701@faucet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Greetings to all, > > I've finally gotten some pictures of more of my Elizabethan gowns > online. There are six new pages and one old page with better pictures > accessible from this menu page: > > http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/eliz.html These are beautiful, well done! > > Melanie Schuessler Allison T. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 01:35:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k855Z1x4001413 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 01:35:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k855YsRa001633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 01:34:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k855YDpT067917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 4 Sep 2006 23:34:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k855Y8Cs075822; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 23:34:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k855Y3bn075781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2006 23:34:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-213-194-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.213.194]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k855Y0rv023411; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:34:02 +1000 Message-ID: <002601c6d0ac$e4f176e0$c2d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "reconstructing history patterns" , Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:34:00 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] new 17th century category at Am I Period or Not? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 01:34:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FD0C7E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO We have finally received enough submissions to create a separate 17th century album at http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ (we set up a policy early on that we would split up the albums into separate centuries once we had enough photos to put 5 in each century) Unfortunately this means that the old comments and votes have been lost in the move (sorry to the owners of the photos but there's no other way to do it), so you can now claim the honour of submitting the first comment on the 17th century photos. Come visit our website http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ For those who have somehow missed my previous messages advertising this site here's a brief summary of the concept: People send in photos of the historical costumes they've made, the photos are loaded onto a website where people can view them, vote on how period accurate they are and leave comments. While the original site that this website was based on was for pre 1600 costume only The New Am I Period Or Not website covers the fashions of any era you like, from the first civilisations to the day before yesterday (plus imaginary eras). Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 06:49:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85AngWb000906 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 06:49:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k85AnZ3f018332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 06:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85AmXWZ091437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 04:48:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85AmSrc037563; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 04:48:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8586wn2052545 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 02:07:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.9699779; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:06:34 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k8586WY03938.; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:06:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:06:32 +0100 Message-Id: <44FD3E0602000014000BFB50@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 09:06:14 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] new 17th century category at Am I Period or Not? References: <002601c6d0ac$e4f176e0$c2d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> In-Reply-To: <002601c6d0ac$e4f176e0$c2d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 06:49:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FD563F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Great, thanks, Elizabeth! The new 17th century photos ("Wenceslas Hollar lady") are of me; having at last acquired a digital camera, I got a friend to take some pics at the Sealed Knot event over August Bank Holiday. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> "Elizabeth Walpole" 05/09/2006 06:34 >>> We have finally received enough submissions to create a separate 17th century album at http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ (we set up a policy early on that we would split up the albums into separate centuries once we had enough photos to put 5 in each century) Unfortunately this means that the old comments and votes have been lost in the move (sorry to the owners of the photos but there's no other way to do it), so you can now claim the honour of submitting the first comment on the 17th century photos. Come visit our website http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ______________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 11:11:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85FBT5x004647 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:11:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k85FBM3I014905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:11:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85FAXo3044907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:10:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85FAO4l026564; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:10:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s14.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s14.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85FAB56026240 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:10:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.9.90]) by bay0-omc2-s14.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 08:10:06 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 08:10:06 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 207.46.9.123 by by119fd.bay119.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:10:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: h-costume@indra.com, GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com, TheRenaissanceTailor@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 08:10:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2006 15:10:06.0153 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EBF3390:01C6D0FD] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Extant Military Bases (From the Metropolitan Museum of Art.) Pictures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:11:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FD939A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi all, I just got back from a trip to New York City. I have a little goodie for you. I was able to get an appointment with the curator of the Arms and Armor division of the Metropolitan Museum of Art to see the extant military bases often talked about in Blanche Payne’s History of Costume. I have posted one of the pictures here to give you a peek-it’ll only be up for a few days - I have to get permission from the museum for them, so please don’t spread them around. http://www.saragrace.us/images/MilBaseFullOnOutside2.JPG That’s the good news. The bad news is that they are under suspicion of not being from the 16th Century. The museum was very happy to accommodate me. Unfortunately the staff of the costume institute was on vacation the entire week I was there so I didn’t get to see anything that wasn’t already on display. I was still able to get an appointment with the curator of the Arms and Armor, Stuart Pyhrr division to see these bases. He says because there have been several inquiries in the last few months about the skirt (it has been in storage for almost 30 years), it will be handed over shortly to the Textile department for further analysis. Mr. Pyrre says he will let me know what their final analysis is, but the preliminary thoughts are this: The textile folks at the MET suspect the skirt is actually from the 19th century. They are saying that the way the fabric is woven is too complex to have been from the 16th century and that the pattern on the brocade looks Russian. (The bases came from Saxony). They also think that the pristine condition indicates it is from a later time. They think they may have been made up for a display of tournament armor. I’ll have a few questions for the textile folks. These are some of my initial thoughts. The bases are described in Payne’s book, but since I don’t have it in front of me, I will describe it. It is a pleated military base made from gold and blue brocade. It is lined with a matching blue linen or cotton. The lining looks to be coarsely woven, medium weight, linen or cotton. There are few slubs in it like you see in similar weight linen today. (Payne says the lining is cotton.) It has approximately 20 organ pipe pleats centered in the garment; the side pieces for the opening are not pleated. It has been cut out of a circle of material. The lining is quilted in a diamond pattern. The quilting thread sometimes shows. The piecing of the lining is done in such a way that the sewing thread is not discernable. (I didn’t try to pull the seams apart, but it looked very uniform. This may be part of the reason they thought it was made in the 19th century – maybe it was sewn by machine?) The quilting thread is white. There are two (approximately 8 inch) “bands” made from the same fabric as the lining which are attached on either side of the opening. These look more worn than the rest of the lining, so if it was just for display I wonder how they got so worn. The bands are placed about 3 or 4 inches up from the hem on the inside about 2 inches from the side edge. They run vertically and are attached at either end. They look as if they were used to secure the bases closed or perhaps to the leg some how. The long distance between the two attachment points may have allowed for some movement while on horseback. I find it hard to believe they would have bothered with such a practical attachment for a display piece. (These bands are shown in the pattern at the back of Payne’s book.) Also, there is a stamp on the inside of the bases which looks like some sort of ownership insignia. Again, if it were only for display I wonder what reasons they may have had to stamp it. Both the lining and the outside fabric are pieced, though not in the same places. In general little attempt has been made to match the pattern on the brocade. The lining is pieced in large “chunks” while the brocade is only pieced near the bottom edges where the width of the fabric was not wide enough to cut the entire circle. The outer fabric is sewn in place on the quilted lining. The bottom edge of the lining is turned up. The edges of the brocade are raw at the bottom and the selvedge edge is used to run up along at least one side of the opening. They (the MET folks) think that this wouldn’t have been done for a “real” military base. (I think it is sort of odd for a display piece, especially in the 19th century. Maybe I am wrong, but I would have thought by then that people had pretty much decided raw edges were not appropriate for any finished garment) There are running stitches in several places which appear to either be part of the quilting or perhaps for stabilizing the brocade to the quilted lining. The stitching of the tapes on the top are rather crude, as is the attachment of the bands. The pleating is what I would call organ pipe pleating. It never occurred to me until looking at this garment that perhaps the reason they are called organ pipe pleats is that the attachment to the band makes an oval shape at the top, just like the pipes on an organ are sliced at an angle. The narrow tapes which hold the pleats in place are coarsely woven. Their attachment on the pleat goes much further down in the pleat than I would have expected. Payne describes these as sharp...I would not. I wonder if the lining in particular hadn’t come from a previous garment. Perhaps they even cut up a previously quilted piece. The blue lining matches the blue in the brocade very well. If the outer and inner fabrics were used together in an original piece, I wonder why they are pieced so differently and why the brocade wasn’t at least as wide as the lining. The pattern on the brocade is a simple flower against an abstract sort of shield. I am not sure what about this would indicate it was Russian in origin. I hope the museum is able to run carbon dating analysis on the fabrics. Even if the bases were put together at a later date, I’d love to know how old the actual fabrics are. The brocade was originally a soft gold. It has bleached out to almost silver. I am not sure if real gold would do this....and not being a historic textile expert, I have no idea whether the way the gold is spun into the threads (you can actually see this in the pictures because I took them at such high resolution) is 16th century. Also, the brocade pattern doesn’t look complex to me, but that may not have been what the textile folks were talking about.. Sorry to just give you a teaser picture. I hope to have permission to put them all up soon. Saragrace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 11:51:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85Fp8VL005386 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:51:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k85Fp1b0007228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:51:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85Fn43h052346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85Fn0p0064792; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:49:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85Fmtfx064683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:14829 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GKdAY-0000e4-CX for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 10:48:58 -0500 Message-ID: <016e01c6d102$ce656890$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060904173724.67792.qmail@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001c01c6d067$86370740$a1bfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hourly Wages Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 10:48:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:51:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FD9CE5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO After keeping meticulous records of how long a very basic-looking (but actually rather fiddly to sew) 15thC dress took me to make, I decided that I could either a) make about $0.50/hr but actually sell things, b)charge what it was actually worth and wait years for that special customer who was actually willing to pay for it, or c) lower my standards drastically. I decided to opt for d) make things to fit me, offer them on eBay if I feel like it, and just keep 'em if they don't sell, along with a healthy dose of e) use my other skills to make a very nice hourly rate indeed, thank you very much. In costuming, the money really does seem to be in easily & quickly made accessories, and that's just not particularly interesting to me. (Though I like the fiddly, detailed accessories, as my current project list shows.) Actually, due to a lack of quick easy accessories, I'm struggling right now to find a single decent outfit to wear to my 2nd ever (!) SCA event (really not a joiner). It turns out that chemises, shoes, hosen, headwear, pouches, etcetcetc really do become necessary if you want to leave the sewing room. Who'da thunk it? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 15:52:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85Jq1Jt010725 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:52:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k85JpsFf028435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:51:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85Jp4uE099687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:51:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85Jol0J011821; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:50:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s40.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s40.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.112]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85IhbKS045936 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:44:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.43]) by bay0-omc1-s40.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:43:16 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:43:16 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.38.200 by by116fd.bay116.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 18:43:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: TheRenaissanceTailor@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com, GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 11:43:12 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2006 18:43:16.0280 (UTC) FILETIME=[2641B380:01C6D11B] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I'm a dork...URL redirect..was: Extant Millitary bases X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:51:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 44FDD55A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Please go here for the picture... http://www.saragrace.us/METMilBases.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 17:52:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85LqDrO013111 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:52:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k85Lq7Pl026075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:52:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85Lactl015823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:36:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85LaW15012915; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:36:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k85LaRGq012730 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:36:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.424.929c5fb (60437) for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 17:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-D12 (fwm-d12.webmail.aol.com [205.188.160.204]) by ciaaol-d02.mail.aol.com (v112.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLD022-ec1544fdedd33c4; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:36:19 -0400 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:36:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C89F4A7565E705-E00-7593@FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com> From: chindora@aol.com References: Received: from 65.80.252.76 by FWM-D12.sysops.aol.com (205.188.160.204) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:36:19 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 19656 Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm a dork...URL redirect..was: Extant Millitary bases MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.160.204 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:52:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FDF187.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Well, the link worked fine for me in your first e-mail. Thanks ever so much for making this available to us! :) -----Original Message----- From: wickedfrau@msn.com To: TheRenaissanceTailor@yahoogroups.com; h-costume@indra.com; GermanRenCostume@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 2:43 PM Subject: [h-cost] I'm a dork...URL redirect..was: Extant Millitary bases Please go here for the picture... http://www.saragrace.us/METMilBases.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 20:19:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k860JoR1016272 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 20:19:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k860Jffv005191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 20:19:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k860IemN042190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:18:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k860Iadq044037; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:18:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:3M95orHsO1vVMcfFC/C+jzRqG7/PIBCp@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k860IWcs043993 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:18:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.227] (206-124-5-227.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.227]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k860C9r02760; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:12:09 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <9224920162204954c3969eb7d940a11c@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:18:28 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: theCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] 20th C menswear X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:19:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FE141D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Does anyone have the book "Men's Fashion in the 20th Century" by Costantino? I just noticed it in a catalog and would really like a modern menswear book for my library if it's a good one. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 22:45:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k862j3os020000 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:45:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k862iu7Q014417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:44:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k862hk8t061707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 20:43:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k862hb4l035039; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 20:43:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52113.mail.yahoo.com (web52113.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k862hYhd034965 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 20:43:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 8025 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2006 02:43:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=NvrzThuAZ8opA9CzEl1TTXJUuBY3VM4gJr+RDSOogZ8xEXcCGxvIugvSVm0aPUt4HyLOYZ+UslfR/5uq146A3MSiWuDfr1xXkNl8+UnYxHIzqIQ3JHvkNQ0QvEFgH71XpeQin2+a2de5BtwPZqD/HAhyZUxcNIDXCEfVnyPFMzM= ; Message-ID: <20060906024329.8023.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:43:29 PDT Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:43:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k862hYhd034965 Subject: [h-cost] Pattern Listings on EBay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:44:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FE3628.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hello everyone, Once again I have listed patterns on EBay. New listings are my Past Patterns, relistings for various other names. I'll possibly be listing my Martha Pullen magazines as well.... we'll see how the patterns go. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 5 22:50:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k862opcD020132 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:50:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k862oj2t017262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:50:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k862oKv5062555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 20:50:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k862oJ8g038963; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 20:50:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52115.mail.yahoo.com (web52115.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k862oGde038888 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 20:50:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 99376 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2006 02:50:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=TuLYnZgNZpzuQxRtKtYKz9nJO5I+xcST7M4eEQD4OMqcRABMA+hRdyhFOoXkfKVjwhQGBBJ29Ih4VOfgTFw5Ze78MFZgx/4mUKleRHNt4+z7NN3es0/dQZfs7wfF6vIcCg1N3YOiqeLJeTz3dpTclv6MbNWHB3i9IhHmuYKirik= ; Message-ID: <20060906025011.99374.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:50:11 PDT Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:50:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200609051818.k85IIEiT021078@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k862oGde038888 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Hourly Wages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:50:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FE3785.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thanks for replying everyone. It was very useful. There are other issues that need to be worked out, which are looking up lately despite recent.. *ahem* differences of opinion. It'll take a little time though. Part of the problem is one I really can't fix; I live in a region that really doesn't support the wage I should be earning. My husband has over doubled my value (sweet in its' meaning, but impossible to make realistic) which makes it impossible to reason with him. Even after showing him Canadian labour stats and the relative payscales floating through here, he still isn't convinced. I rather like the idea of *him* managing the customers reactions to the rate, however..... *grin* Thank you ladies. This was a shot in the arm I desperately needed. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert(Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 6 00:21:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k864L9kF022125 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 00:21:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k864L0Ec027471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Sep 2006 00:21:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k864Je0K072990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:19:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k864JaKh094086; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:19:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k864JXcP094049 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:19:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AAEB7640476; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 04:13:31 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hourly Wages Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 21:19:34 -0700 Message-ID: <005f01c6d16b$a8cc6070$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001c01c6d067$86370740$a1bfa6d8@pavilion> X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k864JXcP094049 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 06 Sep 2006 00:21:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FE4CAC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Yes, our group tries to be as authentic as possible, so it is of silk. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:17 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hourly Wages Also depends on cost of materials, I'd think. Good quality fabrics, beads, trims could get really expensive, really fast. I strongly suspect that the outfit is more along the lines of a couture-level costume, rather than a cheesy, cotton-broadcloth Elizabethan equivalent of a prom dress from Hellmart..... If the person who made that 2K outfit were giving him/herself a base wage of, say, $25/hour, which is probably pretty low for highly skilled custom sewing (I'm basing this purely on what my old employer from a couple of decades ago used as a base to figure costs for the custom sewing jobs I did), that would only be about 80 hours of labor for the entire outfit, assuming that the raw materials' costs were NOT included in the 2K. I've spent that much time just on beading some things, never mind the 100s of hours one can devote to embroidering something. I'll have something like 15 or 16 hundred hours into the embroidered stripes on my Venetian camicia by the time I'm done. --Sue in Montana, enjoying her rare, Labor Day vacation ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "MaggiRos" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hourly Wages > Clients in my experience want to know in advance how > much they'll be paying, so I set a per-hour rate in my > head but quote a flat amount depending on the garment > and level of ornamentation--with adjustments for > anticipated aggravation, of course. :-) That way I > don't have to keep careful watch on the clock, or > remember that I work more slowly as the day goes on. > > Not that I do this for a living, but that's the method > I developed when I was sewing for other people. Now > it's just a recommendation. > > $2,000 seems quite high, but jewelling and any > handwork does take a lot of time. (That's why I > learned to sew, in the end.) I guess it depends on > what your market will bear. > > MaggiRos > > --- "Sharon at Collierfam.com" > wrote: > > > A friend of mine had an Elizabethan court dress and > > hat made, with removable > > sleeves and separate underskirt. It was beaded and > > had a good amount of > > trim. Quite lovely. I believe she paid about > > $2,000.00 US. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 6 00:30:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k864U1Sj022320 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 00:30:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k864TtbC032290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Sep 2006 00:29:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k864T8Ap073798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:29:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k864T6qm099101; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:29:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k864T2GM099054 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:29:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.73.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.73] helo=faucet.net) by pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GKp25-0001Sv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 06 Sep 2006 00:29:02 -0400 Message-ID: <44FE5C8C.9060200@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 00:28:44 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 20th C menswear References: <9224920162204954c3969eb7d940a11c@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 06 Sep 2006 00:29:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FE4EC3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > Does anyone have the book "Men's Fashion in the 20th Century" by > Costantino? I just noticed it in a catalog and would really like a > modern menswear book for my library if it's a good one. > I have it. It's not bad. It's a not a big book, but it has a fairly nice overview picture-wise--I haven't read the text, I must admit. It does fall prey to a common failing of clothing history books when they hit the second half of the twentieth century, which is that it's got pictures of couture and rock star clothing that was very far outside the norm for that time starting in about the 70s, but it has a decent selection of "normal people" clothes as well. Not that most of us couldn't research those decades in our own memory...or even in our own closets... ;) Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 6 05:16:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k869GHtQ008103 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 05:16:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k869GACd032314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Sep 2006 05:16:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k869ENjO099116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 6 Sep 2006 03:14:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k869EJ02041494; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 03:14:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail6.tpgi.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k869EEwK041440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 03:14:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-220-24.tpgi.com.au [220.244.220.24]) by mail6.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k869EBLO000301 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:14:12 +1000 Message-ID: <00bb01c6d194$d149d680$18dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060830122714.duy9lnl12jt6oscw@www.goldsword.com> <44F5C40A.5040101@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:14:10 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costume book for new Medieval costumers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 06 Sep 2006 05:16:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FE91DA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO As recent discussion has been on the topic of good costume history books for a class specifically on that topic I started thinking about my group's lack of resources to point newbies at. Does anybody have recommendations for a book with a lot of good re-drawings so I can hand it over to newbies and say 'pick a picture you like anywhere between 600 and 1600' (the text is not as important as accurate line drawings which allow a newbie to visualise how it will look in real life) and once they've narrowed it down to a century we can start looking at more specific resources. All of my current books focus on the 16th century or later and I don't have a good overview book of the whole Medieval/Renaissance period. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 6 19:25:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k86NPnlO010506 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:25:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k86NPg8Z025487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:25:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k86NOuYw010072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 6 Sep 2006 17:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k86NOemb044119; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 17:24:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k86NOaxO044012 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 17:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62023A785A for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2006 18:24:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <44FF58B4.2020203@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 18:24:36 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume book for new Medieval costumers References: <20060830122714.duy9lnl12jt6oscw@www.goldsword.com> <44F5C40A.5040101@reddawn.net> <00bb01c6d194$d149d680$18dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> In-Reply-To: <00bb01c6d194$d149d680$18dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 06 Sep 2006 19:25:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 44FF58F6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > Does anybody have > recommendations for a book with a lot of good re-drawings so I can hand > it over to newbies and say 'pick a picture you like anywhere between 600 > and 1600' (the text is not as important as accurate line drawings which > allow a newbie to visualise how it will look in real life) and once > they've narrowed it down to a century we can start looking at more > specific resources. Braun & Schneider - The History of Costume It's a Dover book, so it's available everywhere. Used copies abound, many under $10. And it's been made into a website. http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/history.html It's not a great stand-alone resource, but as a jumping off point it works pretty well. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 7 21:56:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k881uZIF011854 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:56:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k881uSl0005274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:56:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k881tqXm084055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Sep 2006 19:55:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k881tlg1049219; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 19:55:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k881tgmB049136 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 19:55:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.2df.cc9cc50 (60467) for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R08 (fwm-r08.webmail.aol.com [152.163.211.136]) by ciaaol-m01.mx.aol.com (v112.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM014-ec334500cd9594; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:55:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:55:33 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8A1010110F4FC-177C-39A2@FWM-R08.sysops.aol.com> From: chindora@aol.com References: Received: from 74.234.19.136 by FWM-R08.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.136) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:55:33 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 19764 Subject: Re: [h-cost] On Chopines MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:56:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4500CDCC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Very spif! Where did you find your cork? :) -----Original Message----- From: cinbarnes@gmail.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 8:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] On Chopines I was fitted for my new chopines last nite. You can see a picture of the cork structure with the undyed footbed, and my fabric here: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hysteria95126/my_photos The album is "Works in Progress". The chopines are part of the 2nd set. Woo-hoo I will soon ascend to the heights of fashion! BTW, ladies & gents, have you seen this? There's a lovely yellow velvet 16th c chopine 360' view with zoom. Look at the tooled leather footbed. That's different! The chopine's all covered in lace & silk ribbon bows. http://www.allaboutshoes.ca/en/heights_of_fashion/east_meets_west/ This is the Bata Shoe Museum's new online catalog. Oddly you cant get to All About Shoes from the Bata Shoe Museum's or the reverse. It's new, and that's the reason, I suppose. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 7 22:49:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k882nflc013110 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 22:49:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k882nY90032418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Sep 2006 22:49:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k882n81D090066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:49:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k882n6YZ081617; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:49:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omr.tzo.com (omr.tzo.com [64.27.166.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k882n2hG081523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:49:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from int.omr ([172.20.50.104] helo=omr.tzo.com) by omr.tzo.com with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1GLWQK-0000O7-UP for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:48:57 -0400 X-TZO-Forward: h-costume@indra.com Received: from 71.197.44.2 by omr.tzo.com id 2006090722485740625 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 08 Sep 2006 02:48:57 GMT Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.1.102]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:44:41 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:48:55 -0500 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <000501c6d2f1$538d7a90$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcbS6i3YpsHqKmUdRtODusWFjbN1NwABwqqQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 In-Reply-To: <8C8A1010110F4FC-177C-39A2@FWM-R08.sysops.aol.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2006 02:44:41.0901 (UTC) FILETIME=[BC412DD0:01C6D2F0] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fashion statements of the past X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 07 Sep 2006 22:49:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4500DA3E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Thought you might enjoy this cartoon... http://www.nearingzero.net/screen_res/nz352.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 7 23:09:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8838s7r013608 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 23:08:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8838l9X027613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 7 Sep 2006 23:08:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8838LGd092131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:08:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8838GRI093494; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:08:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8838Cwf093372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:08:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8840jQm031113 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 00:00:45 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion statements of the past Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 22:24:03 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <000501c6d2f1$538d7a90$6601a8c0@PYC64> In-Reply-To: <000501c6d2f1$538d7a90$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609072224.03594.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: Delayed for 02:58:59 by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 07 Sep 2006 23:08:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4500DEBF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Thursday 07 September 2006 10:48 pm, Betsy Marshall wrote: > Thought you might enjoy this cartoon... > > http://www.nearingzero.net/screen_res/nz352.jpg That's a hoot! Thanks for the URL. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 8 01:45:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k885jHdJ016309 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:45:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k885jAGw003246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:45:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8808m3W073075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:08:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8808gAS082493; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:08:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8808cmk082453 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:08:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 12so185506nzp for ; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=OyoASgfuO2PE+lcdtro2zlUMkIZPKIROqQirusPi8duEAHPSkIkiEIgwkpNKst5DxXcA7+qa21VrrLyFj4uhonJi/7Xkht3I3604qLWSmSzvtDC7wcyW4MSo47HV1xyIS18DJVie7G1NXG+hrLZJ/sr4Gs4qRi/80QHSiAT6dvI= Received: by 10.65.234.3 with SMTP id l3mr1095479qbr; Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.81.10 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:08:34 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] On Chopines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 08 Sep 2006 01:45:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45010366.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was fitted for my new chopines last nite. You can see a picture of the cork structure with the undyed footbed, and my fabric here: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hysteria95126/my_photos The album is "Works in Progress". The chopines are part of the 2nd set. Woo-hoo I will soon ascend to the heights of fashion! BTW, ladies & gents, have you seen this? There's a lovely yellow velvet 16th c chopine 360' view with zoom. Look at the tooled leather footbed. That's different! The chopine's all covered in lace & silk ribbon bows. http://www.allaboutshoes.ca/en/heights_of_fashion/east_meets_west/ This is the Bata Shoe Museum's new online catalog. Oddly you cant get to All About Shoes from the Bata Shoe Museum's or the reverse. It's new, and that's the reason, I suppose. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 9 12:03:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89G30EM029919 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:03:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k89G2u50011842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:03:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89G24VF045507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:02:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89G1vcl099473; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:01:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.220]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89G1UTk099076 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:01:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.75]) by bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:00:58 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:00:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:00:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: , "TheRenaissanceTailor" , "h-costume" , "GermanRenCostume" Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:01:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:01:05 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2006 16:00:59.0210 (UTC) FILETIME=[2429BAA0:01C6D429] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:03:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4502E5B0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k89G30EM029919 Status: RO Thought some of you might get a kick out of this. http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi08115a05b.jpg (I have a vague recollection it might have been posted before, if so, my apologies.) It is a fragment from a woodcut print. It is water colored. On the back there has been a pair of templates attached, not the original backside. For those interested in how I found it, I used ICONCLASS = 31 D 15* erwachsene Frau (adult woman) and narrowing the time from 1600 to 1650. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 9 12:14:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89GEaZU031104 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:14:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k89GEWWj001007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:14:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89GE2Bc046518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89GDF4q006372; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89GCJ7K005662 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:13:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.229.17]) by bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:09:27 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:09:27 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.229.220 by by110fd.bay110.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:09:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [72.70.163.37] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "Becky Rautine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:09:23 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2006 16:09:27.0176 (UTC) FILETIME=[52EF3080:01C6D42A] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 09 Sep 2006 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4502E868.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Would you make a color copy of this if you have it? It looks like a Renaissance paper doll to me. Sincerely, Becky Rautine From: "Saragrace Knauf" Reply-To: Historical Costume To: , "TheRenaissanceTailor" , "h-costume" , "GermanRenCostume" Subject: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:01:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com Received: from www1.indra.com ([209.169.0.7]) by bay0-mc3-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:06:38 -0700 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89G3RdU045619(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK);Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:03:28 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89G1vcn099473;Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:02:48 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.com[65.54.246.220])by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89G1UTk099076for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:01:54 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.75]) by bay0-omc3-s20.bay0.hotmail.comwith Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:00:58 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:00:59 -0700 Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV;Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:00:55 +0000 X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt1ts5AnU3cT26KgWEJhRzN3+Ri8O2dcCE4= X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:01:05 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2006 16:00:59.0210 (UTC)FILETIME=[2429BAA0:01C6D429] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2,clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Return-Path: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thought some of you might get a kick out of this. http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi08115a05b.jpg (I have a vague recollection it might have been posted before, if so, my apologies.) It is a fragment from a woodcut print. It is water colored. On the back there has been a pair of templates attached, not the original backside. For those interested in how I found it, I used ICONCLASS = 31 D 15* erwachsene Frau (adult woman) and narrowing the time from 1600 to 1650. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 9 13:22:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89HMMAB032460 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 13:22:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k89HMISB013590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 13:22:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89HLjDU055010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 11:21:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89HLfs3053509; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 11:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.251]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k89HLV2j053368 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 11:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 42322 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Sep 2006 17:21:26 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=P/2fy4OEk6Lm1JeO8girFbVfGixGSMisfaKgcYFYNmSTQBMPq9O2YphyKp5Tjr73asOtfe6ruWZW+JXAHy9E1SC080T48dJJWbj28U84f5+9kpJwbmZTm+fJ1AuvoN5TabRnoWgtSQd1rGIw8uSJ0h3CIHie+/SIQXVKhXlhJrA= ; Message-ID: <20060909172126.42320.qmail@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.34.229.63] by web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 10:21:26 PDT Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:21:26 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 09 Sep 2006 13:22:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4502F84A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO It looks entirely 17th century to me, going by the hair styles (far left) and high waists, among other things. MaggiRos --- Becky Rautine wrote: > Would you make a color copy of this if you have it? > It looks like a > Renaissance paper doll to me. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 9 14:38:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89IcTY1002468 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:38:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k89IcPbM025603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89IbrpC063500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:37:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89Ibo99003844; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:37:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from charlevoix.vervehosting.com (charlevoix.vervehosting.com [209.50.239.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89IbkJq003776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:37:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jen@verybigdesign.com) Received: from cpe-71-72-201-242.cinci.res.rr.com ([71.72.201.242]:55435 helo=[192.168.2.4]) by charlevoix.vervehosting.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GM7hz-0002TU-Fs for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 14:37:39 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <200609091800.k89I0AjQ080267@net.indra.com> References: <200609091800.k89I0AjQ080267@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <811A647B-91AA-4E9A-9201-3CA5A549B68F@verybigdesign.com> From: jen funk segrest Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:37:55 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - charlevoix.vervehosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - verybigdesign.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k89IbkJq003776 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: gernan paper doll X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 09 Sep 2006 14:38:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45030A21.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Sep 9, 2006, at 2:00 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Thought some of you might get a kick out of this. http:// > www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi08115a05b.jpg bilder/mi08115a05b.jpg> On bild index page after you click a thumbnail you get an intermediate size in a popup, click "vergrößern" tab on the page (enlarge) and get the full size... Here's the full size pic URL: http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi08115a05a.jpg (the last letter is what you change... a is full, b is med, c is thumb) so if you ever get urls for pics there that are not large, now you know how to cheat it. jen ========================================= medievalbeads.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 9 16:31:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89KUvJQ005458 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:30:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k89KUrHW014861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:30:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89KURvB073438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:30:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89KUN3w069366; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:30:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89KUIfM069300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:30:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.75] (pool180-75.patriot.net [209.249.180.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge1) with ESMTP id k89G9evs000028 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:09:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 08:41:38 -0400 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: Unique Internship for Costume Students X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:30:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4503247D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This was on a museum list. I e-mailed Eva, and she asked to please share with other lists! ----------------- Hello, I'm writing in hopes that you know of a talented student who might be interested in the following internship at the Merchant's House Museum. This is the first time we've offered a position in historic costuming, and I think this would be a great opportunity for someone who is interested in historic clothing, sewing, or theatrical costuming. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or recommendations. Although the position description is for a volunteer track, the Museum is glad to fulfill any requirements necessary for students to achieve academic credit. Yours truly, Eva Ulz Historic Costumers Wanted for Productions in NYC's Oldest Preserved Interior Do you have a passion for historic costume? The Merchant's House Museum's education department is seeking creative costumers to help create accurate 19th-century clothing for our interpreters. This is a great chance to expand your costuming repertoire and get period experience. Costumers will work closely with Museum designers to research period accuracy and mimic 19th-century construction techniques. You'll be able to copy details directly from the Museum's extensive costume collection and primary source library. Some of the costumes we plan to build this fall include mid-19th century undergarments (corsets, crinolines, etc.), day dresses, mourning clothes, and formal attire. The costumes will be worn by actors during Museum events including candlelight ghost tours, a recreated 1865 funeral, a musical revue of early 19th-century NYC, and our annual holiday caroling festival. Benefits to You In addition to helping a worthy cause (educating the public about what life was really like in 19th-century New York,): -you'll gain the kind of hand-on experience with period costuming that couldn't come from anywhere but one of NCY's largest single-family costume collections. -You'll learn about authentic construction techniques, garment shapes, and period research sources. -Museum volunteers also receive a staff card which provides free admission for you and a guest to most other area museums. Required Skills You must be an accomplished stitcher, familiar with a variety of construction and finishing techniques. You must be able to construct a garment without step-by-step instructions from a hand-drawn pattern or draped muslin. Experience with fitting, theatrical costuming, historic costume, or the ability to drape and draft patterns is a plus. How to Apply Send a cover letter, resume/cv (of your related experiences), and - if possible - detailed pictures of your work to: Eva Ulz Education Coordinator Merchant's House Museum 29 East Fourth Street New York, NY 10003 Fax: 212-777-1104 Email: eva@merchantshouse.org The Merchant's House Museum is New York City's only family home preserved intact -- inside and out -- from the 19th century. Built in 1832 just steps from Washington Square, this elegant red-brick and white-marble row house on East Fourth Street was home to prosperous merchant Seabury Tredwell and his family for 100 years. Today, the house offers a rare and intimate glimpse of domestic life during the significant period of the 19th century when New York City transformed from a colonial seaport to become the center of U.S. culture and commerce and a "world city" on a par with London and Paris. Visit www.merchantshouse.org for more information. "Since 1832..." _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 9 19:07:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89N7Laq011294 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:07:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k89N7GZI027654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:07:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89N6PLv087843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:06:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89N6MQt058000; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:06:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89N6Gkv057941 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:06:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.55.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.55] helo=faucet.net) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GMBtv-0007bP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:06:15 -0400 Message-ID: <450356D6.9040008@faucet.net> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:05:42 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll References: <20060909172126.42320.qmail@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:07:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45034924.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO MaggiRos wrote: > It looks entirely 17th century to me, going by the > hair styles (far left) and high waists, among other > things. Definitely 17th century, probably around 1635, though the hair and the neckline look slightly later. Compare http://www.kipar.org/period-galleries/paintings/early/henriet_34.jpg (Queen Henrietta Maria, English, 1634 by Van Dyck) Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 9 19:59:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89NxEG7012901 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:59:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k89NxARR027573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:59:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89NwoaM094857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:58:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89NwX2p084877; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:58:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s31.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s31.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89NwHMk084736 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:58:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.229.36]) by bay0-omc2-s31.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:58:12 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 16:58:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.229.220 by by110fd.bay110.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 09 Sep 2006 23:58:10 GMT X-Originating-IP: [72.70.163.37] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20060909172126.42320.qmail@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "Becky Rautine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:58:10 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2006 23:58:12.0381 (UTC) FILETIME=[CEDCE4D0:01C6D46B] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:59:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4503554E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO No. I meant that if this were to printd on good paper, it would make a great paper doll. It is arranged like the paper dolls that played with in the late 60s and beyond. I'd like to have a copy of it tomake a doll for my daughter. Sincerely, Becky Rautine From: MaggiRos Reply-To: Historical Costume To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:21:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from www1.indra.com ([209.169.0.7]) by bay0-mc3-f16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2444); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:26:45 -0700 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89HMGG5055090(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK);Sat, 9 Sep 2006 11:22:17 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k89HLfs5053509;Sat, 9 Sep 2006 11:21:56 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com[68.142.207.251])by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k89HLV2j053368for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 11:21:39 -0600 (MDT)(envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 42322 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Sep 2006 17:21:26 -0000 Received: from [70.34.229.63] by web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP;Sat, 09 Sep 2006 10:21:26 PDT X-Message-Info: LsUYwwHHNt33Pbxfseb87huSzALgMq9mcT4t9PAnx9s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding;b=P/2fy4OEk6Lm1JeO8girFbVfGixGSMisfaKgcYFYNmSTQBMPq9O2YphyKp5Tjr73asOtfe6ruWZW+JXAHy9E1SC080T48dJJWbj28U84f5+9kpJwbmZTm+fJ1AuvoN5TabRnoWgtSQd1rGIw8uSJ0h3CIHie+/SIQXVKhXlhJrA=; X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2,clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Return-Path: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2006 17:26:45.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[1FA7E590:01C6D435] It looks entirely 17th century to me, going by the hair styles (far left) and high waists, among other things. MaggiRos --- Becky Rautine wrote: > Would you make a color copy of this if you have it? > It looks like a > Renaissance paper doll to me. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 9 20:13:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8A0D0Zw013630 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 20:13:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8A0CvOI016258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 20:13:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8A0CXbF096018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8A0CWD2092175; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:12:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s1.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s1.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8A0CToX092100 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:12:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.229.36]) by bay0-omc2-s1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:12:24 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:12:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.229.220 by by110fd.bay110.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:12:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [72.70.163.37] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com From: "Becky Rautine" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 20:12:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2006 00:12:23.0739 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA4FD0B0:01C6D46D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Finally doe with Princess Elizabeth costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 09 Sep 2006 20:13:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45035889.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Tomorrow my daughter will be wearing the pink costume I've been working on since last year. Looking for the fabrics, getting patterns, make a toile, adjusting this or that, gathering beads and pearls, looking for those little black buttons, and hand stitching it all myself... and it looks great! I loved stitching the linen shirt. She loves wearing the light corset. It's all in pink, red undergarments and velvet sleeves of antique velvet that has various velvet piles( velluto alto-basso or soprariccio). It's heavy for her but I think adjusting the weight of the skirt will help that. So it's get out the seam ripper and resew it to a band so it doesn't tip her over backwards. I'll post pictures as soon as I find the camera cable. I'm so proud of it. My next one will be the Elenor Toledo style... in a few weeks I'll get started. Sincerely, Becky Rautine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 10 08:54:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8ACskfa020554 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:54:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8ACsg0j013304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:54:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8ACsA5A058668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 06:54:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8ACs0T0076019; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 06:54:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8ACrtKO075924 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 06:53:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) X-ORBL: [69.107.82.208] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-82-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.82.208]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.13.7 out spool5000 dk/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k8ACqoVE031486 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:53:09 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20060910053801.02615ce0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 05:38:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:54:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45040B12.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >Thought some of you might get a kick out of >this. >http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi08115a05b.jpg > > >(I have a vague recollection it might have been posted before, if so, my >apologies.) > >It is a fragment from a woodcut print. It is water colored. On the back >there has been a pair of templates attached, not the original backside. Some years ago I saw this in a book about toys, and had not been able to track it down because the book didn't say where it was from. Thank you so much. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com ///\\\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) )(( <> ))( * ) ( * /----\ /---\ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 10 10:48:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AEmAce024608 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:48:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8AEm7fV016168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:48:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AEl2Wl069006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:47:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AEktcL042521; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:46:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s33.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s33.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.105]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AEkpHX042440 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:46:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.88]) by bay0-omc1-s33.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:46:46 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:46:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:46:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:46:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:46:57 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2006 14:46:46.0246 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0671860:01C6D4E7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:48:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450425A7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8AEmAce024608 Status: RO Sorry, this there is only a black and white copy on Bildindex. You never know, if you contact the museum, you might be able to get a color copy. Sg ----- Original Message ----- From: Becky Rautine To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:09 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Would you make a color copy of this if you have it? It looks like a Renaissance paper doll to me. Sincerely, Becky Rautine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 10 11:53:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AFrSLh027490 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:53:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8AFrM0H023326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:53:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AFqGD0076541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:52:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AFqAjL083268; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AFq6Ym083161 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:52:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.131]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20060910155201.OGFR28894.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net> for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:52:01 -0500 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.131]) by ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20060910155200.SSSU8966.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:52:00 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060910103600.0326ac60@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:51:57 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is this wool flannel appropriate for any costuming uses? In-Reply-To: <200608311801.k7VI0hP5068655@net.indra.com> References: <200608311801.k7VI0hP5068655@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:53:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450434F3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I've been meaning to this for awhile. I would certainly be interested in seeing your counts. I was at Birka (Sweden) a week ago and they had a dark blue worsted twill fabric sample (and a handwoven bolt reproduced.. that could be handled) that was fine. They said that it was quite common in the finds. Have you looked at Lise Bender Jorgensen's "North European Textiles Until AD 1000" ? Beth >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:36:15 -0500 >From: "E House" > >For what it's worth, I recently did a thread count comparison between the >counts given in "Medieval Textiles" and "Woven into the Earth," and some >common types of modern wool (including gabardine). To my surprise, even the >normal-to-coarse modern wools that should have been comparable based on text >descriptions were FAR finer (like 2-3 times the thread count) than even the >extant textiles that were described as being extremely fine. If anyone is >interested in more detail, I'll look around for the notebook that has my >preliminary notes and post 'em here. > >Long story short, though, go for the coarser woolens if you want a really >authentic-looking fabric, at least for pre ~1475, and for early period & >vikingish stuff, try to find a coarse worsted. (Woolens didn't get hip until >what, around 12thC-13thC? sorry, posting without my references.) > >-E House >(Loves the fine worsteds far too much to give them up. Besides, I haven't >gotten thread counts for the early 16thC yet. Maybe things were different >then! Anyone have any references?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 10 13:18:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AHIoZh031270 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:18:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8AHIl3i019610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AHHk55085258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:17:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AHHeCq035769; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:17:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s17.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s17.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8AHHb9O035652 for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:17:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from zeartiste@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.229.46]) by bay0-omc1-s17.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:17:32 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:17:31 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.229.220 by by110fd.bay110.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:17:27 GMT X-Originating-IP: [72.70.163.37] X-Originating-Email: [zeartiste@hotmail.com] X-Sender: zeartiste@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "Becky Rautine" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:17:27 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2006 17:17:31.0855 (UTC) FILETIME=[00017DF0:01C6D4FD] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:18:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450448F7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO What is Bildindex I'm new to costume sources. Please tell me about how to contact the museum and what museum that it is. Sincerely, Becky Rautine From: "Saragrace Knauf" Reply-To: Historical Costume To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:46:57 -0700 Sorry, this there is only a black and white copy on Bildindex. You never know, if you contact the museum, you might be able to get a color copy. Sg ----- Original Message ----- From: Becky Rautine To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:09 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] 17th Century German Paper Doll Would you make a color copy of this if you have it? It looks like a Renaissance paper doll to me. Sincerely, Becky Rautine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 11 00:30:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8B4UYh9028139 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:30:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8B4UVmH005857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:30:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8B4U1nR058633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:30:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8B4TtZN032220; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:29:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail7.tpgi.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8B4TojJ032156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:29:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-220-201.tpgi.com.au [220.244.220.201]) by mail7.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8B4TlZJ002604 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:29:48 +1000 Message-ID: <006701c6d55a$ea38c600$c9dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:29:46 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:30:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4504E667.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hello everyone, I'm planning to make-over my French Hood (I used Drea Aleed's 1533 pattern http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/fhoodmake.html#patterns) and although I'm pretty happy with the overall shape of the hood it really needs an under-cap to be more authentic. The Tudor Tailor book recommends metallic organza to make the pleated frill you see at the front of French hoods. I've found this silk/copper organza http://www.trimfabric.com/k-648.html and I wanted to check that this is the same as the 'metallic organza' mentioned in the book. Otherwise Thai silks has a metallic silk organza http://www.thaisilks.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product_Code=005L which is cheaper but it's 80% 'metal' without specifying what the metal is (and the photo isn't as good so I'm not sure about the overall look). Would the higher metal content mean that it holds the pleats better or would it make it too fragile? If anybody has experimented with pleating metallic organza, which would you recommend for a finely pleated frill? (for an idea of how finely pleated, this http://formetoknow.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=album02&id=boleyn1 is the portrait the shape of the hood is based on, you can see the golden coloured frill sticking out from underneath her hood. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 11 08:22:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BCM7ev003810 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:22:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8BCM41C029050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:22:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BCLNuT001421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 06:21:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BCLIe0087902; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 06:21:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BCLDH5087820 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 06:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.222.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.222] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GMkmm-00018A-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:21:12 -0400 Message-ID: <450562A0.9040903@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:20:32 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill References: <006701c6d55a$ea38c600$c9dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:22:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450554EC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I had good luck with the metallic organza from Supersilk. Go to http://www.supersilk.com/index1.asp then click on "Silk Gallery" on the left. Then "Silk Organza Metallic Plain 44" Wide" from the top box. These have a silk warp and metallic weft. Each color choice tells you the color of the silk and the color of the metal. White gold will be pale, yellow gold a true gold, brown gold more of an antique gold. The one caveat I have is that the warp pleats much easier than the weft, which means you either need to get enough yardage to cut your whole strip along the long grain or you need to piece it. I actually did mine the other way, because I only ordered enough to pleat across the grain, but it fought me the whole way. I used the yellow gold, and you can see it here http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/yellow.html Good luck, Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 11 11:16:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BFGffU008611 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:16:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8BFGcPv006739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:16:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BFFuJf023938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:15:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BFFe0Q024267; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:15:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BFFPXG023971 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:15:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0954.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.187]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A82BE7AE for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:15:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <45057D89.2020902@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:15:21 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pictures of Regency Ball at castle Hohenlimburg X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:16:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45057DD6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi, We have been to a beautiful Regency ball in Germany. It was our first Regency event. Here are some pictures. http://www.mystictimes.nl/Regency/RegencyBall.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 11 11:53:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BFrZR7009626 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:53:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8BFrUXO006752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:53:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BFqntd029222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:52:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BFq7Kl062508; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BFpWLW061738 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:51:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from dm26.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 716C140617 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:51:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060911085124.8246FF00@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:51:24 -0700 From: " Lalah" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRFBYX8os3LzwEAAAAB,b47eda60980418bde1d194b6ef1462d8 X-Originating-Ip: [152.163.100.70] X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:53:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4505867A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO A word of caution, if I may. Copper is both an easy metal to work and a difficult one. If you make your pleats right the first time it will be a piece of cake. But every time you bend copper it gets stiffer until it simply won't work for you without annealing (which would be difficult when it is blended with silk). Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- ewalpole@tpg.com.au wrote: From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: Subject: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:29:46 +1000 Hello everyone, I'm planning to make-over my French Hood (I used Drea Aleed's 1533 pattern http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/fhoodmake.html#patterns) and although I'm pretty happy with the overall shape of the hood it really needs an under-cap to be more authentic. The Tudor Tailor book recommends metallic organza to make the pleated frill you see at the front of French hoods. I've found this silk/copper organza http://www.trimfabric.com/k-648.html and I wanted to check that this is the same as the 'metallic organza' mentioned in the book. Otherwise Thai silks has a metallic silk organza http://www.thaisilks.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product_Code=005L which is cheaper but it's 80% 'metal' without specifying what the metal is (and the photo isn't as good so I'm not sure about the overall look). Would the higher metal content mean that it holds the pleats better or would it make it too fragile? If anybody has experimented with pleating metallic organza, which would you recommend for a finely pleated frill? (for an idea of how finely pleated, this http://formetoknow.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=album02&id=boleyn1 is the portrait the shape of the hood is based on, you can see the golden coloured frill sticking out from underneath her hood. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 11 13:49:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BHn8tD013178 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:49:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8BHn4c3029137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BHlnSQ045609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:47:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BHlcGO075327; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:47:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BHlWoX075121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:47:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:17740 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GMpsZ-0000an-Kq for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:47:32 -0500 Message-ID: <01ea01c6d5ca$59cf3660$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006701c6d55a$ea38c600$c9dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> <450562A0.9040903@faucet.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:47:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:49:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4505A190.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I haven't ordered the metallic organza from any of the places you've talked about, but have a couple of comments. First, at FFC we got some metallic silk organza, and had some _rust_ problems with it, so my instinct tells me that a copper metallic content would be a big plus. (Ok, maybe you'll get verdigris problems, but I kind of doubt it.) Second, for the pleated edging on my not-yet-finished headwear, I wound up using some wired-edge metallic gold ribbon from walmart, with the wire pulled out. This left me with a nice clean edge on the frill, with much less bother. (Not the woven foil-looking type, but the woven wire that looks like metallic organza but coarser.) Since the frill from my era is generally much wider than the later 16thC stuff, I used the ~1.5" width, and it worked well, though I wound up having to finger-press the pleats into place. The silk/metallic would probably look better, but since I honestly have no idea what they used (does anyone here know? I do early 16thC, but I expect the material used would be the same as mid/late 16thC) I don't know which choice looks more authentic. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 11 14:44:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BIisSU015049 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:44:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8BIipoM029650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:44:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BIiSqG053349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:44:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BIiOjh030248; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:44:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8BEHJZN071244 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:17:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0354A75F2 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:17:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4505700F.8050406@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:17:51 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill References: <006701c6d55a$ea38c600$c9dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> In-Reply-To: <006701c6d55a$ea38c600$c9dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:44:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4505AEA3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > If anybody has experimented with pleating > metallic organza, which would you recommend for a finely pleated frill? > (for an idea of how finely pleated, this I used a narrow, wired metallic organza ribbon from a bag of holiday trim. There ought to be a lot of it in with the Christmas crafts around now. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 11 20:50:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C0nsf9027024 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:49:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8C0npG5003505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:49:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C0nM9X097196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:49:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C0nF32020503; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:49:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C0nCTR020458 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:49:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A29AA9D04EC; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:43:06 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:49:08 -0700 Message-ID: <003701c6d605$4189ac80$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <01ea01c6d5ca$59cf3660$7e00a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8C0nCTR020458 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:49:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4506042F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I, too, used ribbon with a wire edge, but I left the wire in. Really easy to pleat! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:47 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill I haven't ordered the metallic organza from any of the places you've talked about, but have a couple of comments. First, at FFC we got some metallic silk organza, and had some _rust_ problems with it, so my instinct tells me that a copper metallic content would be a big plus. (Ok, maybe you'll get verdigris problems, but I kind of doubt it.) Second, for the pleated edging on my not-yet-finished headwear, I wound up using some wired-edge metallic gold ribbon from walmart, with the wire pulled out. This left me with a nice clean edge on the frill, with much less bother. (Not the woven foil-looking type, but the woven wire that looks like metallic organza but coarser.) Since the frill from my era is generally much wider than the later 16thC stuff, I used the ~1.5" width, and it worked well, though I wound up having to finger-press the pleats into place. The silk/metallic would probably look better, but since I honestly have no idea what they used (does anyone here know? I do early 16thC, but I expect the material used would be the same as mid/late 16thC) I don't know which choice looks more authentic. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 11 21:14:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C1ELRe028579 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:14:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8C1EFRC009395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:14:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C1Dtj2000704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:13:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C1DpTS034272; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:13:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C1Dm6q034185 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:13:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.79]) by bay0-omc3-s5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:13:43 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:13:43 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 01:13:38 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:13:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:13:53 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Sep 2006 01:13:43.0068 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0305DC0:01C6D608] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bildindex: Was 17th Century German Paper Doll X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:14:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450609E7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8C1ELRe028579 Status: RO Hi Becky, welcome. Bildindex is a German database which is "part of" FotoMarburg. It is a wonderful source. Germany, unlike US "weenies" has tried to put together a compendium of artwork available in Germany and Germanic states (like Bavaria, Netherlands, etc.). I have a page on my website which explains how to use the advanced search (ExpertSuche). My site is down right now for overhaul. I will upload that page here shortly and repost the link. Saragrace P.S. Fair warning! You can "piss away days" on Bildindex! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 04:02:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C8201q001964 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 04:02:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8C81vIr001634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 04:02:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C81H3M031723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 02:01:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C81BJ8018007; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 02:01:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8C814pd017951 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 02:01:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.10110200; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:00:36 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k8C80YF10637.; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:00:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:00:34 +0100 Message-Id: <4506772002000014000C0328@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:00:16 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures of Regency Ball at castle Hohenlimburg References: <45057D89.2020902@kabelfoon.nl> In-Reply-To: <45057D89.2020902@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 04:02:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45066975.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Lovely! I'm envious - I'd love an excuse to wear Regency costume. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> Deredere Galbraith 11/09/2006 16:15 >>> Hi, We have been to a beautiful Regency ball in Germany. It was our first Regency event. Here are some pictures. http://www.mystictimes.nl/Regency/RegencyBall.html ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 09:59:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CDxSFE009531 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:59:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CDxOkj002958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CDwiGi056253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:58:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CDwdHg092659; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CDwY9R092596 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 07:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16872 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:39:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:39:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:59:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4506BD3C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Here's an uncharacteristic request. I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary school class about medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're doing on the Middle Ages. This much I know how to do, and have done before. No problems there. Here's the part I need help with. The class will be putting on an in-class medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about two months. The teachers want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of the parents probably don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not going to need or want to take the time and effort to learn about medieval costume, or to spend the money on proper materials. This is supposed to just provide a bit of flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' Hallowe'een costume.) The teacher has asked me to provide some basic references on easy medieval costume that the parents can draw on. I am absolutely backed up and can't write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of basic garments and suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list of books and websites that will tell them, essentially, how to make their kid look medieval in an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. I've spent so many years steering people away from bad costume books that now I'm having to really probe the recesses of my brain for this one! The source I can think of right off the bat is "Medieval Theatre Costume" by Iris Brooke, which is really a useful visual introduction for the complete newcomer, and has simple cutting diagrams. (It's also in our library system.) For the people who care about doing it right, I'll point to the reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for a basic tunic, which is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw around yourself" T-tunic approach and no harder. Can anyone think of any other useful books or web pages for a parent who simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be particularly authentic, and will have no further use for the costume after one wearing? Surely there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books out there... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 10:24:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEOlR9009979 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:24:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CEOha3007519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:24:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEOBVe059126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:24:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEOAsO011769; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:mXAgZz1UmXNJpEhinINyNjjttuo4k5ng@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEO6LW011716 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:24:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.232] (206-124-5-232.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.232]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8CEHbh06523 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:17:37 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:24:04 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:24:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4506C32B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I got a book a long time ago called "Costume Design and Making" by Fernald and Shenton that has simple patterns for lots of costumes. It's another Theatre Arts book so it may be very similar to Brookes and it may still be too difficult for parents. Are there any commercial patterns for children for Medieval type costumes? SYlrog On Sep 12, 2006, at 7:39 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > Here's an uncharacteristic request. > > I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary school class about > medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're doing on the Middle > Ages. > This much I know how to do, and have done before. No problems there. > > Here's the part I need help with. The class will be putting on an > in-class > medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about two months. The > teachers > want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of the parents probably > don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not going to need or want > to > take the time and effort to learn about medieval costume, or to spend > the > money on proper materials. This is supposed to just provide a bit of > flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' Hallowe'een costume.) > > The teacher has asked me to provide some basic references on easy > medieval > costume that the parents can draw on. I am absolutely backed up and > can't > write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of basic garments and > suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list of books and > websites > that will tell them, essentially, how to make their kid look medieval > in > an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. > > I've spent so many years steering people away from bad costume books > that > now I'm having to really probe the recesses of my brain for this one! > The > source I can think of right off the bat is "Medieval Theatre Costume" > by > Iris Brooke, which is really a useful visual introduction for the > complete > newcomer, and has simple cutting diagrams. (It's also in our library > system.) For the people who care about doing it right, I'll point to > the > reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for a basic tunic, > which > is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw around yourself" > T-tunic > approach and no harder. > > Can anyone think of any other useful books or web pages for a parent > who > simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be particularly > authentic, > and will have no further use for the costume after one wearing? Surely > there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books out there... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 10:32:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEWkl6010145 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:32:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CEWhTD011587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:32:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEWGCG060160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:32:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEWE5t018238; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:32:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao05.cox.net (eastrmmtao05.cox.net [68.230.240.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEWADV018142 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060912143205.VERK7951.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:32:05 -0400 Received: from VMAA1 ([68.225.179.207]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id MSXs1V0074UskY40000000 Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:31:52 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:31:59 -0400 Message-ID: <003701c6d678$34b49fb0$6501a8c0@VMAA1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:32:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4506C50B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi Robin~! One of the very best books I've seen for just this purpose is _Kings, Queens, Knights and Jesters_ by Lynn Edelmann Schnurnberger. ISBN: 0-06-025241-3 Published originally in 1978 by the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but I think it's been reprinted in paperback since. Amazon lists several used copies of this (for cheap), but it does not seem to still be available new. This was written for a summer children's "Medieval Festival" at the Cloisters in NYC. Children from ages roughly 8 on up can easily make these costumes themselves, since everything is based on 3 shapes, with clear easy to understand directions and pictures. It also includes a fair few images of real medieval items, so kids can get a good idea of what it's supposed to look like. It covers basic heraldry designs as well as simple cardboard and foil "armor" and weapons. Overall, this is a great little book for this purpose. Beyond this, I'd wait for patterns to go on sale at Joann's. ;-) =Linda= -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary school class about medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're doing on the Middle Ages. This much I know how to do, and have done before. No problems there. Here's the part I need help with. The class will be putting on an in-class medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about two months. The teachers want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of the parents probably don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not going to need or want to take the time and effort to learn about medieval costume, or to spend the money on proper materials. This is supposed to just provide a bit of flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' Hallowe'een costume.) The teacher has asked me to provide some basic references on easy medieval costume that the parents can draw on. I am absolutely backed up and can't write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of basic garments and suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list of books and websites that will tell them, essentially, how to make their kid look medieval in an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. Can anyone think of any other useful books or web pages for a parent who simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be particularly authentic, and will have no further use for the costume after one wearing? Surely there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books out there... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 10:35:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEZ3Pt010198 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:35:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CEZ0Jo022245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:35:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEYecK060481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:34:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEYdqq020140; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:34:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CEYYPF020071 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:34:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17014 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:15:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:15:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:35:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4506C594.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tue, 12 Sep 2006, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > I got a book a long time ago called "Costume Design and Making" by > Fernald and Shenton that has simple patterns for lots of costumes. > It's another Theatre Arts book so it may be very similar to Brookes > and it may still be too difficult for parents. Are there any > commercial patterns for children for Medieval type costumes? Hmm, good point, forgot about patterns since I don't use them. Surely there's some basic medieval commercial patterns from the big three out there. I'd be happy if I can steer everyone to basic rectalinear tunic styles and some sort of headcovering. They're focusing on c. 1300, so no "fairy princess" dresses here. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 12:02:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG2Icn012059 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:02:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CG2Fks025743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:02:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG1aoE071514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:01:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG1STs099262; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8CG1C8T098947 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:01:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2006091212010221798 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:01:02 -0400 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG0qo3014981 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:01:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:00:46 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:02:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4506DA07.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO There's a book called "Elegantly Frugal Costumes" by Shirley Dearing (ISBN 0-916260-88-7) that shows how to cut up a hooded sweat shirt or pajamas or pillowcase to make some okay looking stuff for kids. Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:39 AM To: Historic Costume List Subject: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Here's an uncharacteristic request. I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary school class about medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're doing on the Middle Ages. This much I know how to do, and have done before. No problems there. Here's the part I need help with. The class will be putting on an in-class medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about two months. The teachers want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of the parents probably don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not going to need or want to take the time and effort to learn about medieval costume, or to spend the money on proper materials. This is supposed to just provide a bit of flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' Hallowe'een costume.) The teacher has asked me to provide some basic references on easy medieval costume that the parents can draw on. I am absolutely backed up and can't write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of basic garments and suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list of books and websites that will tell them, essentially, how to make their kid look medieval in an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. I've spent so many years steering people away from bad costume books that now I'm having to really probe the recesses of my brain for this one! The source I can think of right off the bat is "Medieval Theatre Costume" by Iris Brooke, which is really a useful visual introduction for the complete newcomer, and has simple cutting diagrams. (It's also in our library system.) For the people who care about doing it right, I'll point to the reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for a basic tunic, which is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw around yourself" T-tunic approach and no harder. Can anyone think of any other useful books or web pages for a parent who simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be particularly authentic, and will have no further use for the costume after one wearing? Surely there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books out there... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 12:02:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG2bAp012069 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:02:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CG2Y4X002038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:02:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG1aR3071513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:01:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG1SPN099261; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG1DNQ098960 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:01:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7482A7658 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:01:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4506D9F2.1000202@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:01:54 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:02:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4506DA1A.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >> Are there any >>commercial patterns for children for Medieval type costumes? > > > I'd be happy if I can steer everyone to basic rectalinear tunic styles and > some sort of headcovering. They're focusing on c. 1300, so no "fairy > princess" dresses here. There's a real dearth of historical kid's costumes right now, but this one from McCall's might work for the girls: http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M5207.htm?tab=costumes&page=1 And perhaps portions of this for the boys: http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M5214.htm?tab=costumes&page=1 Additionally, I have simple directions for making a tabard, at my website, and you have my permission to make copies to send home with the kids. www.reddawn.net/costume/tabard.htm Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 12:45:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGjmEb012998 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:45:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CGjjbV016010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:45:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGjL38077001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:45:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGjGRt040491; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:45:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.125]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8CGj9rn040309 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:45:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from concertmasterp@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 56871 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Sep 2006 16:45:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lrtEEPRyBqGfN3wHE58RLe7xMsa94xLImjyT1RUbNQsKIjKwcovat1/yztaSOdyGM9ia7RStf8Pl4msuR8DyBfKctDbJflZk/Faz9is+Qr3qUMhAyMGPuTXsAg/IWQMWdhzWEumizVLi9ictrfJV3vJiS1U0GJF+DxMDmMw/d7k= ; Message-ID: <20060912164503.56869.qmail@web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.76.24.130] by web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:45:03 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:45:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pabinquit Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:45:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4506E439.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Robin, I have done what you are about to do, except I and another person help the students with costuming for a sheakespeare play. atthefaire.com has a pattern link and simplicity has some inexpensive costumes. I also fitted the sudents using resources such as the second stores in the area and wal mart. Wal Mart had womens "tights", some sort of stretchy cotton pants, that were $5.00 and worked well as the knee length pants for the guys. Perhaps there are those who could provide some reacy made hand made patterns for you. Robert --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > Here's an uncharacteristic request. > > I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary > school class about > medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're > doing on the Middle Ages. > This much I know how to do, and have done before. No > problems there. > > Here's the part I need help with. The class will be > putting on an in-class > medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about > two months. The teachers > want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of > the parents probably > don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not > going to need or want to > take the time and effort to learn about medieval > costume, or to spend the > money on proper materials. This is supposed to just > provide a bit of > flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' > Hallowe'een costume.) > > The teacher has asked me to provide some basic > references on easy medieval > costume that the parents can draw on. I am > absolutely backed up and can't > write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of > basic garments and > suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list > of books and websites > that will tell them, essentially, how to make their > kid look medieval in > an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. > > I've spent so many years steering people away from > bad costume books that > now I'm having to really probe the recesses of my > brain for this one! The > source I can think of right off the bat is "Medieval > Theatre Costume" by > Iris Brooke, which is really a useful visual > introduction for the complete > newcomer, and has simple cutting diagrams. (It's > also in our library > system.) For the people who care about doing it > right, I'll point to the > reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for > a basic tunic, which > is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw > around yourself" T-tunic > approach and no harder. > > Can anyone think of any other useful books or web > pages for a parent who > simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be > particularly authentic, > and will have no further use for the costume after > one wearing? Surely > there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books > out there... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 12:51:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGp667013071 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:51:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CGp3iB018531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGobh7077779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:50:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGoOAN045592; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:50:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGnrrp044932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:49:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:21912 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GNBSI-0000J9-6E for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:49:51 -0500 Message-ID: <02a901c6d68b$75877e50$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4506DB38.3040103@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:49:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:51:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4506E577.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" > Ooops, missed one, here's your basic tunics for children, in a nativity > pattern: > http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M2340.htm?tab=costumes&page=6 > McCall's patterns will be on sale at Hancock fabric store chains this Sept > 14-17, for 99 cents. I was about to suggest something like that--I helped sew up some angel costumes for our church's Christmas play from either this or a similar pattern, and it was a tunic, plain and simple. I finished the seams so it took longer than 2 hours for each, but still, very easy pattern (the person who started the project had zero sewing experience). -E House PS--there's a chance it was Simplicity 4797, though I remember more of a rectangle-based cut. I'll see if I can find out which one we used, but I doubt it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 12:56:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGuZmE013174 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:56:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CGuWl6030680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:56:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGtinF078524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:55:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGtUc1050356; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:55:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CGtKI3050149 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:55:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 12so730851nzp for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:55:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JDGydY/pagp/Hvk9WqPdseJ4OV931LTIeR1w/Q4De+zYhN9EwFM0T09d83p2sKMV4Jv4bBrpr3X4M/27cEwI9LUDvxYe80BuhX3990zOnu1s29TfAABKnFrRtUyEPbV8yDYzHCb/0K71Quj8NNH4Kb6avGCGAQJcxCvE+Y4P3X4= Received: by 10.65.112.5 with SMTP id p5mr7213553qbm; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.81.10 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:55:13 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] On Chopines In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:56:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4506E6C0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On 9/11/06, Classe, Francis wrote: > Hey Cin, > > Always! So, here is the deal - as we know, in period, they would have > used either wood (one source mentions lombardy poplar) or cork. For > cork, the actual bark of the tree was used, held together with wooden > pins and possibly some kind of glue (still doing more research on this > part, but I've seen extant pieces where the wooden pins are visible). > Since cork trees aren't readily available, there are actually a couple > of sources out there that I know of which sell composite cork blocks > which can be carved into an appropriate form. > > 1) Cork Yoga blocks, available at many different sites. Just search > google, but one example is here > http://www.yoga.com/store/product.asp?Product_ID=2719 or > http://www.unitywoods.com/boutique.html. The downside of these blocks > is that most of them are made of cork dust combined with a binder of > some sort. This makes them softer to the feel and lighter, but less > stable, so I only recommend them for shorter styles. Also, because of > the size, they're only really appropriate for small feet (they're only > about 9" or 10" long). I have heard of a source that sells larger (3' > by 2', I believe) cork blocks of similar material for around $50, but > I'd have to dig a bit more for that and get you the source later. > Incidentally, we made a set of florentine style pantoufle forms over the > weekend out of these cork blocks. If you cut them right, you can > actually get two per block. I took some pictures if you're interested. > > 2) Cork Decoys. Several places sell material for carving out your own > cork decoys, but you can just as easily carve your own chopines or > pantoufles out of them. Check out > http://www.theduckblind.com/corksales.htm or http://www.corkstore.com > (under arts, crafts, and hobbies). You want the tan cork, not the black > cork, since the black cork falls apart as you carve into it. They also > have large blocks that are also available from source 3 below. > > 3) Maryland Cork Company. They only sell large blocks (2' by 3' and > many different thicknesses), but you'll have to call to get more > information. This is where I got the cork for your chopines. > http://www.marylandcork.com/ > > Hope this helps! > > > > Francis C. Classe > FMO QRE - Sunnyvale > Work: (408) 616-7848 > Cell: (408) 250-5563 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cin [mailto:cinbarnes@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:40 PM > To: Classe, Francis > Subject: Re: [h-cost] On Chopines > > The question is addressed to you, sir. Willing to give away your > secrets? > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:55:33 -0400 > From: chindora@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] On Chopines > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: <8C8A1010110F4FC-177C-39A2@FWM-R08.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Very spif! Where did you find your cork? > > :) > > -----Original Message----- > From: cinbarnes@gmail.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Sent: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 8:08 PM > Subject: [h-cost] On Chopines > > I was fitted for my new chopines last nite. You can see a picture of > the cork structure with the undyed footbed, and my fabric here: > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hysteria95126/my_photos > The album is "Works in Progress". The chopines are part of the 2nd > set. Woo-hoo I will soon ascend to the heights of fashion! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 13:24:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CHO7RW013732 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:24:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CHO3pf004237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:24:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CHN41b081929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:23:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CHMsau076504; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8CHMcow076212 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:22:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2006091213222823448 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:22:28 -0400 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CHMKR6022871 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:22:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:22:14 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:24:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4506ED33.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO What is the school district like? Are there some families that feel even $5 is too much? If so, asking for donations of plain, non flowered, pillowcases that, with holes cut for arms and head, belted over sweat pants -- wrap burlap around the shoes and ankles and cut up another pillowcase for a hood/cowl (use safety pins if the kid/parent can't sew). It certainly isn't authentic but for those who have no extra $ for a costume, it works -- if not a pillow case, two towels (striped or plain) pinned/sewn at the shoulders and belted over a sweat shirt works, too. Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:39 AM To: Historic Costume List Subject: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Here's an uncharacteristic request. I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary school class about medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're doing on the Middle Ages. This much I know how to do, and have done before. No problems there. Here's the part I need help with. The class will be putting on an in-class medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about two months. The teachers want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of the parents probably don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not going to need or want to take the time and effort to learn about medieval costume, or to spend the money on proper materials. This is supposed to just provide a bit of flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' Hallowe'een costume.) The teacher has asked me to provide some basic references on easy medieval costume that the parents can draw on. I am absolutely backed up and can't write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of basic garments and suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list of books and websites that will tell them, essentially, how to make their kid look medieval in an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. I've spent so many years steering people away from bad costume books that now I'm having to really probe the recesses of my brain for this one! The source I can think of right off the bat is "Medieval Theatre Costume" by Iris Brooke, which is really a useful visual introduction for the complete newcomer, and has simple cutting diagrams. (It's also in our library system.) For the people who care about doing it right, I'll point to the reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for a basic tunic, which is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw around yourself" T-tunic approach and no harder. Can anyone think of any other useful books or web pages for a parent who simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be particularly authentic, and will have no further use for the costume after one wearing? Surely there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books out there... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 14:06:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CI6xi6014418 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:06:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CI6u3r027096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:06:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CI6I9L087456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CI6D6G018377; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CI678F018140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:06:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:24347 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GNCe7-0001Z3-Ht for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:06:08 -0500 Message-ID: <02b201c6d696$1b43e270$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:05:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:06:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4506F740.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Speaking of cost, I'd bet that most of the parents don't have access to sewing machines. Since stores are already being stocked for halloween, it might be worth going to a local walmart or target and browsing through the selection--that way, you can suggest costumes, and give the students ideas for how to make them look sort of semi medieval. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 14:11:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIBltf014510 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:11:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CIBhXF030221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:11:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG7d8o072287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:07:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG7QAM004869; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:07:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CG6cF7004117 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 10:07:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D95DA7658 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:06:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4506DB38.3040103@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:07:20 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:11:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4506F85F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > I'd be happy if I can steer everyone to basic rectalinear tunic styles and > some sort of headcovering. They're focusing on c. 1300, so no "fairy > princess" dresses here. > Ooops, missed one, here's your basic tunics for children, in a nativity pattern: http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M2340.htm?tab=costumes&page=6 McCall's patterns will be on sale at Hancock fabric store chains this Sept 14-17, for 99 cents. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 14:51:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIpM1e015312 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:51:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CIpI5F009672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:51:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIoaSR093329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:50:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIoRZf058601; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIoJTc058389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:50:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GNDKr-0006o1-9c; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:50:17 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:50:17 -0400 Message-ID: <20060912145017.js2swh7h6hjww8gk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:50:17 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:51:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450701A6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Depending on what you have in mind, this just might fit the bill http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M5207.htm?tab=costumes&page=1 It has patterns for the veil and *drat* I've lost the word! I'm only coming up with barbette. *sigh* Brain Fade is an ugly thing. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 14:57:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIvkTf015445 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:57:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CIvhrQ013719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIvPbp094111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIvOLE064854; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:57:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CI9YdY021341 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.2e3.cf2162b (45784) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:09:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail-md11 (webmail-md11.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.129]) by ciaaol-m04.mx.aol.com (v112.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM045-b2d84506f7d03c2; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:09:20 -0400 References: To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] On Chopines Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:09:20 -0400 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: chindora@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 19872 Received: from 70.43.19.134 by webmail-md11.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.129) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:09:20 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8A4ADB3F17EF8-EEC-361B@webmail-md11.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:57:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45070327.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Yay! Thanks so much for this helpful info! I just found out that we are moving to England for three years, and the projected moving date is Spring 2007. I am all astir trying to get things ready, but trust me that this little project may get booted to the front of the list. (pun intended) ;-) -----Original Message----- From: cinbarnes@gmail.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] On Chopines On 9/11/06, Classe, Francis wrote: > Hey Cin, > > Always! So, here is the deal - as we know, in period, they would have > used either wood (one source mentions lombardy poplar) or cork..... ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 14:58:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIwk5n015472 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:58:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CIwhgb014349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:58:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIv2IP094029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:57:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CIutY2064372; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:56:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CHq4KP004510 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:52:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17822 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:32:35 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:32:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:58:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45070363.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tue, 12 Sep 2006, Kate Pinner wrote: > What is the school district like? Are there some families that feel > even $5 is too much? If so, asking for donations of plain, non > flowered, pillowcases that, with holes cut for arms and head, belted > over sweat pants -- wrap burlap around the shoes and ankles and cut up > another pillowcase for a hood/cowl (use safety pins if the kid/parent > can't sew). It certainly isn't authentic but for those who have no > extra $ for a costume, it works -- if not a pillow case, two towels > (striped or plain) pinned/sewn at the shoulders and belted over a > sweat shirt works, too. I think we won't have to go that abstract. Time and skill are probably more limiting than money, though I also wouldn't ask or expect parents to shell out for linen and wool for a quickie, one-time-use costume for a class-only event (as opposed to a show). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 15:02:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ2GIX015570 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:02:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CJ2Dk9004195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:02:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ1lwT094709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:01:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ1jOl068879; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:01:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ1dm5068816 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:01:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2A71CA702FE; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:55:35 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:01:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000401c6d69d$e1672280$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:02:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45070435.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO For easy girls' hats, make a tube of fabric, about 1" diameter with a wire in the middle, stuff it and fit to the head. Sew ends together in back. You can make it round or shape it into a point in front or a "horned" shape. Attach veil/scarf. Or, for gorget and wimple, wrap scarf under chin, pin at top of head, then use another piece of veiling to go over. Easy biggins can be made from handkerchiefs. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:15 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources On Tue, 12 Sep 2006, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > I got a book a long time ago called "Costume Design and Making" by > Fernald and Shenton that has simple patterns for lots of costumes. > It's another Theatre Arts book so it may be very similar to Brookes > and it may still be too difficult for parents. Are there any > commercial patterns for children for Medieval type costumes? Hmm, good point, forgot about patterns since I don't use them. Surely there's some basic medieval commercial patterns from the big three out there. I'd be happy if I can steer everyone to basic rectalinear tunic styles and some sort of headcovering. They're focusing on c. 1300, so no "fairy princess" dresses here. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 15:05:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ50vF015626 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:05:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CJ4uZu018474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:04:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ4aq4095026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:04:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ4T2E071323; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:04:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ4P67071258 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:04:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A34D8B7054C; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:58:21 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:04:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c6d69e$445250e0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <20060912164503.56869.qmail@web33310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:04:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450704D8.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Also, Target has mens' pajama bottoms, inexpensive, that can easily be cut down for knee pants. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robert Pabinquit Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:45 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Robin, I have done what you are about to do, except I and another person help the students with costuming for a sheakespeare play. atthefaire.com has a pattern link and simplicity has some inexpensive costumes. I also fitted the sudents using resources such as the second stores in the area and wal mart. Wal Mart had womens "tights", some sort of stretchy cotton pants, that were $5.00 and worked well as the knee length pants for the guys. Perhaps there are those who could provide some reacy made hand made patterns for you. Robert --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > Here's an uncharacteristic request. > > I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary > school class about > medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're > doing on the Middle Ages. > This much I know how to do, and have done before. No > problems there. > > Here's the part I need help with. The class will be > putting on an in-class > medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about > two months. The teachers > want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of > the parents probably > don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not > going to need or want to > take the time and effort to learn about medieval > costume, or to spend the > money on proper materials. This is supposed to just > provide a bit of > flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' > Hallowe'een costume.) > > The teacher has asked me to provide some basic > references on easy medieval > costume that the parents can draw on. I am > absolutely backed up and can't > write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of > basic garments and > suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list > of books and websites > that will tell them, essentially, how to make their > kid look medieval in > an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. > > I've spent so many years steering people away from > bad costume books that > now I'm having to really probe the recesses of my > brain for this one! The > source I can think of right off the bat is "Medieval > Theatre Costume" by > Iris Brooke, which is really a useful visual > introduction for the complete > newcomer, and has simple cutting diagrams. (It's > also in our library > system.) For the people who care about doing it > right, I'll point to the > reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for > a basic tunic, which > is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw > around yourself" T-tunic > approach and no harder. > > Can anyone think of any other useful books or web > pages for a parent who > simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be > particularly authentic, > and will have no further use for the costume after > one wearing? Surely > there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books > out there... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 15:08:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ8EHQ015689 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:08:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CJ8Bvf032423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:08:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ6gwP095274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ6esn073274; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:06:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CJ6Ygf073178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:06:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8CJ6Tgh075515 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:06:29 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:06:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <55668.65.117.156.5.1158087989.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:06:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.1, clamav-milter version 0.88.1 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=7.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4507059B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO This is a great book for non-sewing parents and most likely what she is looking for. This is what the teachers in our school district recommend to parents for costume making. I remember glancing through the book at half price books and thought it was way cute, even a kid could make a costume or two from it. :) Chiara On Tue, September 12, 2006 11:00 am, Kate Pinner said: > There's a book called "Elegantly Frugal Costumes" by Shirley Dearing > (ISBN 0-916260-88-7) that shows how to cut up a hooded sweat shirt > or > pajamas or pillowcase to make some okay looking stuff for kids. > > Kate > 609-570-3584 > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com > [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Robin Netherton > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:39 AM > To: Historic Costume List > Subject: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources > > > Here's an uncharacteristic request. > > I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary school class about > medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're doing on the Middle > Ages. > This much I know how to do, and have done before. No problems there. > > Here's the part I need help with. The class will be putting on an > in-class > medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about two months. The > teachers > want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of the parents > probably > don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not going to need or > want > to > take the time and effort to learn about medieval costume, or to > spend > the > money on proper materials. This is supposed to just provide a bit of > flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' Hallowe'een > costume.) > > The teacher has asked me to provide some basic references on easy > medieval > costume that the parents can draw on. I am absolutely backed up and > can't > write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of basic garments > and > suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list of books and > websites > that will tell them, essentially, how to make their kid look > medieval in > an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. > > I've spent so many years steering people away from bad costume books > that > now I'm having to really probe the recesses of my brain for this > one! > The > source I can think of right off the bat is "Medieval Theatre > Costume" by > Iris Brooke, which is really a useful visual introduction for the > complete > newcomer, and has simple cutting diagrams. (It's also in our library > system.) For the people who care about doing it right, I'll point to > the > reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for a basic tunic, > which > is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw around yourself" > T-tunic > approach and no harder. > > Can anyone think of any other useful books or web pages for a parent > who > simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be particularly > authentic, > and will have no further use for the costume after one wearing? > Surely > there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books out there... > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 16:24:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKOgjA017757 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:24:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CKOdJf007924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKNpOr006648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:23:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKNjwm042959; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:23:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (rwcrmhc15.comcast.net [216.148.227.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKNft4042824 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy4@comcast.net) Received: from stuckis (c-71-207-16-152.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[71.207.16.152]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20060912202336m1500nops4e>; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:23:36 +0000 Message-ID: <006701c6d6a9$53af1cc0$9810cf47@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060912145017.js2swh7h6hjww8gk@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:23:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:24:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45071787.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources > > Depending on what you have in mind, this just might fit the bill > http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M5207.htm?tab=costumes&page=1 > > It has patterns for the veil and *drat* I've lost the word! I'm only > coming up with barbette. *sigh* Brain Fade is an ugly thing. Filet. :-) Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 16:27:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKRGgD017810 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:27:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CKRDnc016128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:27:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKK8eP006103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:20:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKJrHQ039378; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:19:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8CKJkAY039195 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:19:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saka@toysmakeuspowerful.com) Received: (qmail 33686 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2006 20:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tora.toysmakeuspowerful.com) (ksuquix@sbcglobal.net@65.68.105.252 with plain) by smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2006 20:19:40 -0000 Received: from tora.toysmakeuspowerful.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tora.toysmakeuspowerful.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k8CKJZo6003099 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:19:35 -0500 Received: (from saka@localhost) by tora.toysmakeuspowerful.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) id k8CKJZA6003097 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:19:35 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:19:35 -0500 From: saka@toysmakeuspowerful.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Message-ID: <20060912201935.GC1491@toysmakeuspowerful.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:27:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45071821.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO How do all of you prewash a silk/rayon blend? I purchased a 55% silk 45% rayon blend from Thai Silks. Normally I wash silk with shampoo, but I have had terrible luck with rayon shrinking on me. Or, do you just not prewash and then never wash? Thanks. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 16:58:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKwc66018425 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:58:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CKwZ9C021899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:58:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKwIhl011167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKwH7d073751; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:58:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8CKvQcl072880 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:57:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 26299 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Sep 2006 20:57:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=RcLVRDevxWHdckz1tpCt220VWuA4Hw/KUMz0Cu6nagPLOQqG+ZXPTcvA0c4UpXBE/W7ZIFbVtZTgez5v2gGx6dFAoqPm+/VVaQcGIW4xZOZYowoq84UC/iMOekerdYhlvZls69u5c4SYVUJ5ZLCTKYP6OgeNU4rRml8npFtRR0k= ; Message-ID: <20060912205717.26297.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [148.107.3.20] by web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:57:17 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend To: Historical Costume , h-costume@mail.indra.com In-Reply-To: <20060912201935.GC1491@toysmakeuspowerful.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:58:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45071F7B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I always wash the fabric in the temp and detergent I expect to wash the garment in. I this case, I'd use cold water, gentle cycle, and my regular liquid detergent, then throw it in a low dryer long enough to get most of the moisture out. If the garment needs to be pressed, I'll take it to the cleaners. (I have an *excellent* cleaner that I've been taking costumes to for more than 20 years.) MaggiRos --- saka@toysmakeuspowerful.com wrote: > > How do all of you prewash a silk/rayon blend? I > purchased a 55% silk > 45% rayon blend from Thai Silks. Normally I wash > silk with shampoo, but > I have had terrible luck with rayon shrinking on me. > Or, do you just > not prewash and then never wash? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 17:03:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CL34BC018507 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:03:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CL311U001067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:03:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKvWlD011036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:57:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CKvUwe073059; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:57:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8CKvQ2x072879 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:57:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 26299 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Sep 2006 20:57:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=RcLVRDevxWHdckz1tpCt220VWuA4Hw/KUMz0Cu6nagPLOQqG+ZXPTcvA0c4UpXBE/W7ZIFbVtZTgez5v2gGx6dFAoqPm+/VVaQcGIW4xZOZYowoq84UC/iMOekerdYhlvZls69u5c4SYVUJ5ZLCTKYP6OgeNU4rRml8npFtRR0k= ; Message-ID: <20060912205717.26297.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [148.107.3.20] by web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:57:17 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend To: Historical Costume , h-costume@mail.indra.com In-Reply-To: <20060912201935.GC1491@toysmakeuspowerful.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:03:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45072085.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I always wash the fabric in the temp and detergent I expect to wash the garment in. I this case, I'd use cold water, gentle cycle, and my regular liquid detergent, then throw it in a low dryer long enough to get most of the moisture out. If the garment needs to be pressed, I'll take it to the cleaners. (I have an *excellent* cleaner that I've been taking costumes to for more than 20 years.) MaggiRos --- saka@toysmakeuspowerful.com wrote: > > How do all of you prewash a silk/rayon blend? I > purchased a 55% silk > 45% rayon blend from Thai Silks. Normally I wash > silk with shampoo, but > I have had terrible luck with rayon shrinking on me. > Or, do you just > not prewash and then never wash? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 18:08:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CM8HWZ019936 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:08:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CM8BdG025987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:08:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CM7iPx019004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:07:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CM7Yi8032245; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:07:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CM7T4R032112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:07:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GNGPg-0006nA-BJ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:07:28 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:07:28 -0400 Message-ID: <20060912180728.0h2p6e4eipwkc48o@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:07:28 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources References: <20060912145017.js2swh7h6hjww8gk@www.goldsword.com> <006701c6d6a9$53af1cc0$9810cf47@Stuckis> In-Reply-To: <006701c6d6a9$53af1cc0$9810cf47@Stuckis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:08:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45072FCB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Dianne & Greg Stucki : > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 2:50 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources > > >> >> Depending on what you have in mind, this just might fit the bill >> http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M5207.htm?tab=costumes&page=1 >> >> It has patterns for the veil and *drat* I've lost the word! I'm >> only coming up with barbette. *sigh* Brain Fade is an ugly thing. > > Filet. :-) Yeah. That's it! :-) jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 18:25:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CMPA4a020225 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:25:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CMP7dx001742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:25:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CMOWeu020879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:24:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CMOUH8045163; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:24:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CMOQqr045055 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:24:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.484.88254e7 (62976) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:24:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <484.88254e7.32388d8c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:24:12 EDT Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:25:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450733C3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Along the same sort of lines (obv. about historically accurate as medieval space invaders, so don't shoot me), a plain (ie unprinted) basic adult t-shirt, far too big for the kid, and belted in the middle will work too for any families on a tight budget. When I was little we did a school play based around the story of troy, and we were all in way-too-big t-shirts, and it actually didn't look that bad! debs In a message dated 9/12/06 7:02:17 PM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:22:14 -0400 > From: "Kate Pinner" > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources > To: "'Historical Costume'" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > What is the school district like? Are there some families that feel even > $5 is too much? If so, asking for donations of plain, non flowered, > pillowcases that, with holes cut for arms and head, belted over sweat > pants -- wrap burlap around the shoes and ankles and cut up another > pillowcase for a hood/cowl (use safety pins if the kid/parent can't > sew). It certainly isn't authentic but for those who have no extra $ > for a costume, it works -- if not a pillow case, two towels (striped or > plain) pinned/sewn at the shoulders and belted over a sweat shirt works, > too. > > Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 19:33:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CNXTrt021458 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:33:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8CNXQRT032205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:33:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CNWlVl028379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8CNWaIF095080; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:32:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52211.mail.yahoo.com (web52211.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.134]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8CNWY56095006 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:32:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from childishwhims@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58343 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Sep 2006 23:32:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=JIteqi08lnlrqD4gs/Wemgh/yhMzhMMsdP7Tp+vhBJm8qvnURdWZjiuW4PH2pk+LjHawQeReNtKi5muxfp7jgrjzNw9q67mevM21CJAPRWlb+ihzjfHTo5ou9SJZ4eQHKj0cuR0KAs+jfqL3Mw8rrzYyTc0ze9KJSQ3hUE6xFyU= ; Message-ID: <20060912233229.58341.qmail@web52211.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.19.112.114] by web52211.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:32:29 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:32:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Teena Robertson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pictures of Regency Ball at castle Hohenlimburg To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <45057D89.2020902@kabelfoon.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:33:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450743C6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO GREAT!! Pictures! And I loved the scenic pictures too! Teena Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, We have been to a beautiful Regency ball in Germany. It was our first Regency event. Here are some pictures. http://www.mystictimes.nl/Regency/RegencyBall.html Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 20:28:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D0SMRQ022632 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:28:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8D0SJ9S018328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:28:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D0Mu9J032869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:22:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D0MsUg024862; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D0MpJP024797 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:22:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.577.4f8316a (48600) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <577.4f8316a.3238a954@aol.com> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:22:44 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:28:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450750A3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 9/12/2006 6:25:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Debloughcostumes@aol.com writes: Along the same sort of lines (obv. about historically accurate as medieval space invaders, so don't shoot me), a plain (ie unprinted) basic adult t-shirt, far too big for the kid, and belted in the middle will work too for any families on a tight budget. *************** Not bad! I cannot think of any books that cover such costuming but.... For the boys, you can also take a child's bathrobe of plain cloth [y'know, no stripes or prints] and instead of overlapping the front, close it edge to edge [or nearly] Use frogs if there's a budget and you can buy them. Belt it with a leather belt [as wide a possible] and trim the sleeves and neck a bit. Wear a turtleneck and tights under it and make a great hat...like a beret with folds spilling out of it. The hats and other head gear can be a fun thing the kids can help make themselves and can be hot melt glued or contact cemented together. They aren't hard. Most can be berets with brims [a gathered circle sewn to the inside hole of a donut shaped stiff brim] You can do this for the girls with an adult's robe...the longer the better...and belt it under the "bust" with the robe's belt or something fancy like one of mom's metallic belts or some wide trim or ribbon. The trims can be glued on...but hand basting is better and doesn't take that long. You could even carefully arrange pleats, basting them or safety pinning them on the inside under the belt. A great thing to get people to do is the wrap a piece of tape [duct or package...something like that] around the top of the safety pins, if you use them, after you've got things pinned up. This prevents them from accidentally opening and sticking someone. Always place them inside or under something so they won't show! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 21:18:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1IlU3023801 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:18:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8D1IiNF008027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:18:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1I4OC037218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:18:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1Htkl052128; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:17:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1HkcF052065 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:17:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 12so808204nzp for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:17:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=b3XTzrgRgY4WtfJJ/2BUljGbVM8iuAbV15omHIY0Ke5osDpTxVRedy/JHhuJyuvtRm11QrcsL96kzususSxsgSjO+bE71F10iGLUdTev/L0TLve7X95Es7SGRur4p5KR+3+0D2oYiwuMOVscHCxx02KISQtpYI8xlsM+zMpdiys= Received: by 10.64.156.1 with SMTP id d1mr4697659qbe; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.81.10 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:17:46 -0700 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:18:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45075C74.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > From: "Elizabeth Walpole" > Subject: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill > wanted to check that this is the same as the 'metallic organza' mentioned in > the book. Otherwise Thai silks has a metallic silk organza > http://www.thaisilks.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product_Code=005L ?!? I was just at Thai Silks over the weekend & I didnt see that. Maybe I'll have to dash back... my suspicion is that the fabric is "metallic-look" rather than having any actual metal content. Whether it keeps a pleat is pretty well dependant on that answer. In 21st century sewing shops, I havent seen metal in fabrics outside of the local Indian sari shops where you can get Cloth of Mylar, Cloth of Brass and, on rare, occasion Cloth of Silver. --cin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 21:43:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1hoWa024351 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:43:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8D1hlFH018483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:43:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1hIJf039231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:43:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1hG1g065043; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:43:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.179]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1hC2x065012 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:43:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so2691670pye for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:42:37 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=OOIkWnM90ILiEv5InXJqZKhMz+LL9cPmBp6ActsWF00FO9xm7JsDsKY9yTFFliSaREshiviZaF4QG5HRzlmygtHLsmP+vwg2kMjlstMsY64YqVvIv4YLdjTABVKGwHYcq9YAUMPhon98E9MPKwlBoAflyXWo9fH4WS2bAaBzTHw= Received: by 10.64.210.3 with SMTP id i3mr8272336qbg; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.81.10 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:42:37 -0700 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] On Chopines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:43:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45076253.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >Yay! Thanks so much for this helpful info! Sure, I'll post my progress pics, if you post yours! I just finished the toe tassels for my chopines. The chenille is unraveled threads from the base fabric. What a pill to make tassels this way, but the color match is unbeatable. >I just found out that we are moving to England for three years, and the projected >moving date is Spring 2007. I am all astir trying to get things ready, but trust me >that this little project may get booted to the front of the list. (pun intended) Excellent! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 12 21:47:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1l3V0024421 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:47:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8D1l0aG019774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:47:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1kU8a039489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:46:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D1kTIS066591; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:46:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web38501.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38501.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.125.47]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8D1kQ9D066540 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:46:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wyldmann2000@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 73256 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2006 01:46:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ZKXC3O06LR0V4hPNA00lUnqt9oZ1pPje/pACCcItwsbcSPo8vb7/wReMkL5rQnBJlyty/EcgU29DMM1F/tll+cmCqQAVVsV2ghOJS5PRo0jnaBj8dtoTqGEVRXIo9w2UpJ6O08wMFQqsqQIGnfE2jl8mawgZtUHOT103+ujSQXs= ; Message-ID: <20060913014620.73254.qmail@web38501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.12.117.13] by web38501.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:46:20 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:46:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Poche Subject: RE: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:47:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45076314.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Oversized black t-shirt with soda can pop top rings sewn on makes excellent chainmaille. Cap'n Bloody Sam Rackham. Kate Pinner wrote: What is the school district like? Are there some families that feel even $5 is too much? If so, asking for donations of plain, non flowered, pillowcases that, with holes cut for arms and head, belted over sweat pants -- wrap burlap around the shoes and ankles and cut up another pillowcase for a hood/cowl (use safety pins if the kid/parent can't sew). It certainly isn't authentic but for those who have no extra $ for a costume, it works -- if not a pillow case, two towels (striped or plain) pinned/sewn at the shoulders and belted over a sweat shirt works, too. Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:39 AM To: Historic Costume List Subject: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources Here's an uncharacteristic request. I'm going to be speaking to my kid's elementary school class about medieval costume, as part of a big unit they're doing on the Middle Ages. This much I know how to do, and have done before. No problems there. Here's the part I need help with. The class will be putting on an in-class medieval "feast" at the end of the unit, in about two months. The teachers want the kids to be dressed appropriately. Most of the parents probably don't sew much, and even if they do, they're not going to need or want to take the time and effort to learn about medieval costume, or to spend the money on proper materials. This is supposed to just provide a bit of flavor and color to the festivities. (Think kids' Hallowe'een costume.) The teacher has asked me to provide some basic references on easy medieval costume that the parents can draw on. I am absolutely backed up and can't write my own, although I'll probably offer a list of basic garments and suitable colors. Beyond that, I want to make a list of books and websites that will tell them, essentially, how to make their kid look medieval in an evening or two, with a minimum of expenditure. I've spent so many years steering people away from bad costume books that now I'm having to really probe the recesses of my brain for this one! The source I can think of right off the bat is "Medieval Theatre Costume" by Iris Brooke, which is really a useful visual introduction for the complete newcomer, and has simple cutting diagrams. (It's also in our library system.) For the people who care about doing it right, I'll point to the reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for a basic tunic, which is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw around yourself" T-tunic approach and no harder. Can anyone think of any other useful books or web pages for a parent who simply has to clothe the kid, doesn't need to be particularly authentic, and will have no further use for the costume after one wearing? Surely there are some SCA webpages or kid's costume books out there... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 00:22:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D4M815028465 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:22:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8D4M5ii013095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:22:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D4LbV5051939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:21:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D4LUt0044444; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D4LN3U044387 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:21:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20nb.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.235] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GNM9E-0004JB-00; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:14:52 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060912230556.03b8ab30@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 23:09:28 -0500 To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] request (sorta OT) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:22:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4507876D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hey, everyone, Got a couple of things we're looking for. When I got back to work after our 2 weeks in CA, I found that my manager had rearranged my office. In the process, he decided to toss out some of my things, including my 2006 Erte calendar. (Don't ask me why. It's lucky he'd gone on vacation before I got back. They probably would have fired me after they arrested me). Of course, a replacement is not to be found at this late date. I would really like a copy since it had some designs I don't have in any of my Erte books. This one had a black and white design called, IIRC, Byzantine. If any of you have this and don't want it after the year ends or you know anywhere else I can find it, please let me know. This is NOT the alphabet calendar, or the one with 2 ladies in orange-ish outfits on the cover (which are the 2 easily found in a Google or Ebay search). Here's a link to the costume on the cover. We are also looking for a couple of other Erte designs we would like to do some day. Vandy Vandervort found framed versions of these at an art gallery a couple of year's ago and has them in her living room. We've found them on-line, Serigraphs for $10,000 each. I don't know if they're in any of the books (and I hate to just buy a whole bunch of them without knowing). These are Hera and Zeus. Here's a link to see what they look like. Pierre "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 02:23:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D6NBY6007040 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 02:23:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8D6N6A0022121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 02:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D6MTMT060493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:22:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D6MQgI001310; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:22:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32709.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32709.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8D6MKcQ001219 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:22:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 46893 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2006 06:22:12 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=NzcdORWf6yTfx84CnakjjModMuu1QCjHG2XtaxBpeTUJH7lmSk0GuYMTuZo9weeabWsIxw3/LHrY92/lXCwVwF6zJ4gWcezKKap+98nhsG6yQYD3xtk7MUVudVvZk2OkSgFlSuoOapETV2wrFs7U65DtI4yHG1oAMve8PdY/q0U= ; Message-ID: <20060913062212.46891.qmail@web32709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.34.229.63] by web32709.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2006 23:22:12 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 23:22:12 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] request (sorta OT) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20060912230556.03b8ab30@pop.radiks.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 02:23:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4507A3CA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I was going to suggest you look on allposters.com for the Zeus and Hera, but their stock comes and goes. I would swear I've seen the Zeus there but it's not available right now. Lots of other wonderful deco (and other) fashion plates tho. Might be worth checking it every now and then. MaggiRos --- Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > We are also looking for a couple of other Erte > designs we would like > to do some day. Vandy Vandervort found framed > versions of these at an > art gallery a couple of year's ago and has them in > her living room. > We've found them on-line, Serigraphs for $10,000 > each. I don't know > if they're in any of the books (and I hate to just > buy a whole bunch > of them without knowing). These are Hera and Zeus. > Here's a link to > see what they look like. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 03:28:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D7SaCH026284 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 03:28:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8D7SXcx013921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 03:28:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D7Rpgv064695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:27:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D7Rke0030494; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:27:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kalymnos.domenebutikken.no (kalymnos.domenebutikken.no [193.93.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D7Rdkl030434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:27:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ingridgs@techarea.net) Received: from kalymnos.domenebutikken.no (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by kalymnos.domenebutikken.no (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge1) with ESMTP id k8D7TQfu023221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:29:26 +0200 Received: from localhost (ingridgs@localhost) by kalymnos.domenebutikken.no (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) with ESMTP id k8D7TQcW023218 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:29:26 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: kalymnos.domenebutikken.no: ingridgs owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:29:26 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ingrid_G=2E_Storr=F8?= X-X-Sender: ingridgs@kalymnos.domenebutikken.no To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval "costume" sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Decna-MailScanner-Information: http://www.decna.no Ta gjerne kontakt for mer informasjon. X-Decna-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 03:28:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4507B321.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On Tue, 12 Sep 2006, Robin Netherton wrote: > For the people who care about doing it right, I'll point to the > reconstructinghistory.com page on beginner garb for a basic tunic, which > is a whole lot better than the "lie down and draw around yourself" T-tunic > approach and no harder. Much in the same vein there's Maggie Forest's T-tunic page, it has a bit more labeled diagrams that may work better for some: http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML Also I think maybe the patterns in Katherine Holkeboer's Patterns for Theatrical Costumes might be simple enough that people with little sewing experience won't be daunted. Since authenticity isn't key, they'd work fine (I think, I don't have the book in front of me). Or there's always Sarah Thursfield's Medieval Tailor's Assistant, for those who have a bit more interest in sewing, but don't want to go all-out on the research. Ingrid -- This email has been scanned for viruses & spam by Domenebutikken - www.domenebutikken.no Denne e-posten er sjekket for virus & spam av Domenebutikken - www.domenebutikken.no _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 04:25:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D8Papx002331 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 04:25:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8D8PVdE000316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 04:25:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D8PDR1068849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 02:25:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D8P7sg056107; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 02:25:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4d.socket.net [216.106.88.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8D8P3vB056068 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 02:25:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 976D236AC5 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 03:25:02 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 03:25:00 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Erte' ? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 04:25:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4507C07B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO http://tinyurl.com/jgyzh or http://tinyurl.com/k4unq _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 06:56:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DAuL8n003935 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:56:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DAuHJf003484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:56:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DAt3RZ079967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 04:55:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DAstqP024003; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 04:54:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DAspPX023909 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 04:54:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.4c6.86fbc3d (14502) for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:54:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <4c6.86fbc3d.32393d75@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:54:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Erte' ? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:56:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4507E3D2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Yep, those are all Erte designs. Is your question, who is Erte? He was a designer that bridges La Belle Epoch and the 20's. He's known for clever and complicated draping and very lovely graphic design illustrations. The clothes themselves don't always turn out as nice as the plates, however....IMHO, of course. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 07:47:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DBlBm2005369 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:47:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DBl8nP018298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:47:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DBfRI4083062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 05:41:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DBfPIr045937; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 05:41:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DBfME7045906 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 05:41:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B04738490 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:41:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Erte' ? Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 06:41:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <4c6.86fbc3d.32393d75@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:47:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4507EFBC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Someone was looking for a calendar w/ Erte's Byzantine. I think the second one was someone selling the calendar. De -----Original Message----- Yep, those are all Erte designs. Is your question, who is Erte? He was a designer that bridges La Belle Epoch and the 20's. He's known for clever and complicated draping and very lovely graphic design illustrations. The clothes themselves don't always turn out as nice as the plates, however....IMHO, of course. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 10:15:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DEFops008638 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:15:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DEFldh017011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:15:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DEEkJ4096009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DEEbjj034715; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:14:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.188]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8DEEY2r034591 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:14:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 38815 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2006 14:14:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=dhRQ094I3K3yOoZtXzaJ3Y3wCY6o/9rDNYqxQ2i+iobXZx52OMyvt0tyFMyZtUszVo+KPBq3G/FjqbXvOt2bZ5pqNFn5CZoiyldbEWtbBhHPMzryzd/ZIkhCPK6XtN9v3JNozVuMjP1oFxuB7AhMy1bskF3QFttOmZETdC/XZpI= ; Message-ID: <20060913141428.38813.qmail@web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.49.72] by web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:14:28 PDT Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:14:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060912201935.GC1491@toysmakeuspowerful.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:15:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45081293.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I prewash EVERYTHING that is washable! saka@toysmakeuspowerful.com wrote: How do all of you prewash a silk/rayon blend? I purchased a 55% silk 45% rayon blend from Thai Silks. Normally I wash silk with shampoo, but I have had terrible luck with rayon shrinking on me. Or, do you just not prewash and then never wash? Thanks. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 10:59:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DExGx6009337 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:59:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DExCQB030234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:59:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DEqCJR000126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:52:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DEq9P6064031; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:52:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp6.america.net (qsmtp6.america.net [69.60.160.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DEq5vO063976 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:52:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from [65.125.64.149] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp6.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GNW5s-0000mc-Bn for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:52:04 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.0.20060913094805.0191d3d0@justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:51:57 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend In-Reply-To: <20060913141428.38813.qmail@web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060912201935.GC1491@toysmakeuspowerful.com> <20060913141428.38813.qmail@web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45081CC0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO >saka@toysmakeuspowerful.com wrote: > >How do all of you prewash a silk/rayon blend? I purchased a 55% silk >45% rayon blend from Thai Silks. Normally I wash silk with shampoo, but >I have had terrible luck with rayon shrinking on me. Or, do you just >not prewash and then never wash? > >Thanks. > >Kate Depending on the weave, I'd just throw it in the washer. If you got something really gauzy, use the delicate cycle, but otherwise, a regular wash and a regular dry will be just fine. Rayon tends to have a lot of stuff in the lint trap the first few washes, but that won't affect the silk any. I always like to think that my blends increase a bit more in the silk or linen and decrease a bit in the rayon percentages. GRIN Its really not as delicate as we are usually lead to believe. Good Luck Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 11:59:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DFxZTM010312 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:59:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DFxVnb006971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:59:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DFwUJh008262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:58:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DFwPXs021133; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:58:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from liberty3.libertyactivist.org (mail.libertyactivist.org [72.54.7.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DD8tcq092290 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from raelee@rachelsampsel.com) Received: from localhost (liberty3 [127.0.0.1]) by liberty3.libertyactivist.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FC662A40 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:07:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from liberty3.libertyactivist.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (liberty3 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04275-06 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:07:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by liberty3.libertyactivist.org (Postfix, from userid 48) id DCF0E62A23; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:07:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 199.31.3.196 (SquirrelMail authenticated user raelee) by www.libertyactivist.org with HTTP; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:07:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <25497.199.31.3.196.1158152834.squirrel@www.libertyactivist.org> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:07:14 -0600 (MDT) From: "Rachel Sampsel" To: h-costume@indra.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at libertyactivist.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] washing rayon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:59:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45082AE3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I have had problems with rayon shrinking on me as well, but generally only if I wash it in hot water and/or throw it in the dryer. I now wash warm/cold and line dry for rayon - that seems to prevent shrinkage for me. It wrinkles, but it isn't anything that a quick touch of the iron can't fix. Patches _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 12:05:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DG52vS010395 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:05:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DG4xXs006070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:05:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DG2e0Q009475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:02:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DG2dns025135; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:02:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8DEoDZe062337 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:50:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 22664 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2006 07:47:49 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 22616, pid: 22647, t: 4.6067s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:1857 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp4 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2006 07:47:45 -0700 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060913074910.02223888@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 07:49:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend In-Reply-To: <20060912201935.GC1491@toysmakeuspowerful.com> References: <20060912201935.GC1491@toysmakeuspowerful.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp4.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:05:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45082C2B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 01:19 PM 9/12/2006, you wrote: >How do all of you prewash a silk/rayon blend? I purchased a 55% silk >45% rayon blend from Thai Silks. Normally I wash silk with shampoo, but >I have had terrible luck with rayon shrinking on me. Or, do you just >not prewash and then never wash? > >Thanks. > >Kate I'd wash it with Orvis or Synthrapol in warm water. Shampoo has too many additives for my taste. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 12:05:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DG59Jd010400 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:05:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DG55MA009734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:05:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DG4G2d009673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DG4Eqf026635; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:04:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DFlfCV011432 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 09:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.384.a61223f (42808) for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:47:25 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <384.a61223f.3239820d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:47:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:05:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45082C31.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO In a message dated 9/13/2006 10:58:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, maggie.gene@justinanimator.com writes: Its really not as delicate as we are usually lead to believe. ************* True. And a tumble in the dryer will fluff up the nap. If you washed it in cold water, and set the dryer to medium or low heat [you want some heat however] it shouldn't shrink up too much. If you press it, and don't have a needle board, fold the fabric nap to nap so you are pressing the wrong side and the nap is against more nap, instead of a flat surface. And don't press down hard. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 12:16:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DGG703010583 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:16:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DGG31R011643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:16:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DGFX8m011081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:15:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DGFNUZ036596; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:15:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omr.tzo.com (omr.tzo.com [64.27.166.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DGFI0I036396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:15:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from int.omr ([172.20.50.104] helo=omr.tzo.com) by omr.tzo.com with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1GNXOF-0002LS-Ou for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:15:07 -0400 X-TZO-Forward: h-costume@indra.com Received: from 71.197.44.2 by omr.tzo.com id 2006091312150807851 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 16:15:08 GMT Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.1.102]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:10:31 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:15:10 -0500 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <001201c6d74f$c95f6be0$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060913074910.02223888@surewest.net> Thread-Index: AcbXTnP84zYvSa8+TmGYRsDtZerYSQAATFrw X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Sep 2006 16:10:31.0305 (UTC) FILETIME=[22CF7F90:01C6D74F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:16:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45082EC3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Less if you shop on the bottom shelf; or use baby shampoo! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Joan Jurancich Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:50 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Washing Silk/Rayon blend At 01:19 PM 9/12/2006, you wrote: >How do all of you prewash a silk/rayon blend? I purchased a 55% silk >45% rayon blend from Thai Silks. Normally I wash silk with shampoo, but >I have had terrible luck with rayon shrinking on me. Or, do you just >not prewash and then never wash? > >Thanks. > >Kate I'd wash it with Orvis or Synthrapol in warm water. Shampoo has too many additives for my taste. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 13 15:03:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DJ3SNZ013676 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:03:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8DJ3Oqo024980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:03:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DJ2EVA035699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:02:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DJ1xXm092647; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:02:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (root@marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.233]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8DJ1KVe092005 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:01:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sonja@louisiana.edu) Received: from pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu (root@pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.229]) by marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/ull-ucs-mx-host_1.9a) with ESMTP id k8DJ16iN018660 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 14:01:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from louisiana.edu (skr5996@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.13.8/8.13.6/ull-ucs-client_1.7) with ESMTP id k8DJ16kb011342 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2006 14:01:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Sonja" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 14:01:06 -0500 Message-Id: <20060912202731.M34364@louisiana.edu> In-Reply-To: <200609121800.k8CI0frk012791@net.indra.com> References: <200609121800.k8CI0frk012791@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 2.51 20050627 X-OriginatingIP: 130.70.141.184 (skr5996) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.4/1876/Wed Sep 13 11:52:23 2006 on marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Grade School Medieval Costume Project X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:03:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 450855FC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hello Robin, I wasn't sure about sending this, but why not.  This is for grade school costume projects at little to no cost.  Paper bags are GREAT!  The stiff paper can be used to make head coverings (caps and crowns) and if balled-up and flattened several times, it creates "cloth" or "leather" for clothing and shoe coverings.  Add glue, foil, string, markers, crayons, glitter (can resemble metal), and whatever from the craft drawer.  There, you have costumes!  No sewing necessary unless you wanted to "sew" using yarn which could look really nice.  Very good costume project that the students can do themselves.  Accessories can be easily made from cardboard; swords, shields, horses, and the such.  Please be understanding of grade school projects and allow some leniency regarding accuracy.  Asking the parents for more money, even $5, is a lot to ask.  Donated supplies are more reasonable to ask for and easier to get.  Grocery stores are known to donate bags.  There are good resources at te! acher-based websites.  Hope this helps. Good luck, Sonja _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 14 13:28:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EHSuqr007809 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:28:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8EHSrnh003390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:28:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EHSFmN087850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:28:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EHS6qt040207; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:28:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EHS0RZ039973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:10436 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GNv0J-0001lv-M4 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:28:00 -0500 Message-ID: <048101c6d823$1cf87de0$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006701c6d55a$ea38c600$c9dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:27:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] iridescent fabric/weaving (& mind over matter) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:28:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45099155.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO I had one of those neat synchronicity moments recently: I thought to myself, "Huh! I bet you could make an iridescent with more than just 2 colors. Why don't they?" and the next day, I picked up a fabric order that included some iridescent silk taffeta, which to my surprised delight was a _3_ color iridescent. It looked taupe, but was actually pink and green weft on black warp. Very cool! Anyway, the whole thing has gotten me wondering: how practical is it to make 3+ color iridescents? Are they as uncommon as I think? Are there any weavers on here who can expound on them? -E House (would commit minor mayhem for a freakin' copper/purple or copper/teal taffeta, or best of all, a copper/teal/purple!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 14 14:41:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EIfYSk010747 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:41:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8EIfUCm025917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:41:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EIedhV041372 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:40:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EIeZsa005534; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:40:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EIeXnK005469 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:40:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so3428144pye for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:40:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=OgwqgF5nmm7TfwiXheejf4ao9fQi44t8tx/RXaKW5fAvRplSWFBFHBCS2FrEN8GKUBZPK2Y6NUwYEayaewSa++BgjFYEhjwKsqv25hWt40FNwhbUATd/ok5krlg85BpruGbqKVzm81ht15V07/dQUxEOZ9Dxbw512jF2RGuQb/s= Received: by 10.64.184.14 with SMTP id h14mr10730195qbf; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.81.10 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:40:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:40:29 -0700 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] iridescent fabric/weaving (& mind over matter) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:41:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4509A25A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On 9/14/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > I had one of those neat synchronicity moments recently: I thought to myself, > "Huh! I bet you could make an iridescent with more than just 2 colors. Why > don't they?" and the next day, I picked up a fabric order that included some > iridescent silk taffeta, which to my surprised delight was a _3_ color > iridescent. It looked taupe, but was actually pink and green weft on black > warp. Very cool! I remember a gown in a 1994-5 Viennese exhibit (Modeschauraum des Historischen Museums der Stadt Wein) that was 3 color shot silk moire taffeta. This 1850 gown appears as old rose in color. It was actually grey & pink crossed by soft blue. The gown is reprinted in the booklet/catalog is "Vom Empire zur Belle Epoque, Wiener Damenmode (1805-1910)", but you cant tell how delightful the result truly is. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 14 15:23:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EJNQ2M013174 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:23:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8EJNNFt031024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:23:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EJMp1o046698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:22:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EJMlAB042324; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EJMhax042203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GNwnJ-0002xh-6A; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:22:41 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:22:41 -0400 Message-ID: <20060914152241.rpy34sfigx6o0okw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:22:41 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] iridescent fabric/weaving (& mind over matter) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8EJMhax042203 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:23:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4509AC2B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting Cin : > On 9/14/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >> I had one of those neat synchronicity moments recently: I thought to myself, >> "Huh! I bet you could make an iridescent with more than just 2 colors. Why >> don't they?" and the next day, I picked up a fabric order that included some >> iridescent silk taffeta, which to my surprised delight was a _3_ color >> iridescent. It looked taupe, but was actually pink and green weft on black >> warp. Very cool! > > I remember a gown in a 1994-5 Viennese exhibit (Modeschauraum des > Historischen Museums der Stadt Wein) that was 3 color shot silk moire > taffeta. This 1850 gown appears as old rose in color. It was > actually grey & pink crossed by soft blue. The gown is reprinted in > the booklet/catalog is "Vom Empire zur Belle Epoque, Wiener Damenmode > (1805-1910)", but you cant tell how delightful the result truly is. I have a similar fabric that I picked up at Hancocks of all places, except it's not really irridescent. It's a taffeta-ish weave (I can post a picture, but I don't know that you could tell), but it's pink on one side and lavender on the other! susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 14 18:40:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EMeUeJ021655 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:40:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8EMeQrF019287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:40:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EMdfuF072591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EMdags013986; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:39:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep05.xtra.co.nz (fep05.xtra.co.nz [210.54.141.241]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8EMdUlO013819 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:39:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from [10.1.1.3] (really [219.89.178.38]) by fep05.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060914223921.FHKS24954.fep05.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:39:21 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.405 [268.12.4/448]); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:39:22 +1200 Message-ID: <003501c6d84e$9fcae200$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006701c6d55a$ea38c600$c9dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> <048101c6d823$1cf87de0$7e00a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] iridescent fabric/weaving (& mind over matter) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:39:22 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:40:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4509DA5A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > I had one of those neat synchronicity moments recently: I thought to myself, > "Huh! I bet you could make an iridescent with more than just 2 colors. Why > don't they?" and the next day, I picked up a fabric order that included some > iridescent silk taffeta, which to my surprised delight was a _3_ color > iridescent. It looked taupe, but was actually pink and green weft on black > warp. Very cool! Yep:) In fact I believe this is true irridescent fabric rather than simply shot or two tone. > Anyway, the whole thing has gotten me wondering: how practical is it to make > 3+ color iridescents? Are they as uncommon as I think? Are there any > weavers on here who can expound on them? I had seen soem mentioned on a website and then lo and behold within a few weeks I handled some in person at a local trade type store. It was red and green and another colour I can't remember, but I was able to pick out a thread of each colour so it wasn't just a trick of the light. It's > (would commit minor mayhem for a freakin' copper/purple or copper/teal > taffeta, or best of all, a copper/teal/purple!) I am just on the hunt locally for simple green and black! Screes of red and black or rust and black or muddy grey and orange... but not green and black! Michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/448 - Release Date: 14/09/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 15 00:26:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8F4Q6xA029769 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 00:26:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8F4Q277011914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 00:26:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8F4PVHJ005459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:25:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8F4P7Bd015118; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8F4P4GN015033 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:25:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTP id <0J5M00C9A9JOHD00@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 00:23:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.200] (Forwarded-For: [10.240.3.200]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 04:24:57 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 04:24:57 +0000 (GMT) From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] iridescent fabric/weaving (& mind over matter) In-reply-to: <003501c6d84e$9fcae200$0301010a@michaela> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006) Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <006701c6d55a$ea38c600$c9dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> <048101c6d823$1cf87de0$7e00a8c0@compaqub> <003501c6d84e$9fcae200$0301010a@michaela> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 00:26:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at demeter with ID 450A2B5B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO AAAGGGGggghhhhh,,,, I wish I had known! I just threw out the last of the green/black stuff I had been holding on to (because *somebody* might need it). It wasn't iridescent, and it kinda looked like a poly blend. SORRY!! Katheryne who is looking for a shot linen turquoise/medium blue ----- Original Message ----- From: michaela > I am just on the hunt locally for simple green and black! Screes > of red and black or rust and black or muddy grey and orange... but not > green and black! > > Michaela > http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 15 16:20:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FKKPnU026700 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:20:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8FKKL3b006287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FKIdwt014534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:18:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FKIOQV085634; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:18:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FKILJZ085574 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:18:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so3890856pye for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:18:21 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=PAKo4qQ8SvirVwjxarpZQUdoS01QRowahYFoNVlOTv+TTGHbtECgNP4DmyW5D4tlLdC3+SAj3CAyiWaV7KRK1SvzHvx3b1VbnFclzwccLCvTGzCqmhZtEUeiAtW/i+OQMrbjKeoiDGbEQyeaTh8yJ6o9PvsHlCciafYg8ibdwlU= Received: by 10.65.59.19 with SMTP id m19mr9541857qbk; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.81.10 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:18:14 -0700 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] metallic organza, for a pleated frill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:20:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450B0B05.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO On 9/12/06, Cin wrote: > > From: "Elizabeth Walpole" > > Subject: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill > > > wanted to check that this is the same as the 'metallic organza' mentioned in > > the book. Otherwise Thai silks has a metallic silk organza > > http://www.thaisilks.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product_Code=005L > > ?!? I was just at Thai Silks over the weekend & I didnt see that. > Maybe I'll have to dash back... my suspicion is that the fabric is > "metallic-look" rather than having any actual metal content. Whether > it keeps a pleat is pretty well dependant on that answer. I was at Thai Silks yesterday specifically to look at the metallics. Yup, they're real metal. Unfortunately, the lady in front of my bought the whole bolt for home dec purposes. If I described the colors available, it would be as pewter/black, as antique brass/black there was also a silly rainbow version not seen on the website. Those website pics do not do it justice. The bolt end tag says 20% metal, 80% silk. They will get more in stock soon. The lady who got the whole bolt graciously gave me 1/8 yd to play with. I finger pleated it last nite & it looks really really nice. Much better than those mylar wire edge ribbons by Ofray. If you'd like a photo of my pleated sample next to a French hood I can easily accomodate. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 15 17:49:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FLn4Ol028661 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:49:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8FLmwnt015683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:49:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FLmRLU026754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:48:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FLmF55064487; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:48:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FLlLqT063650 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:48:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.375.a69e3d1 (40523) for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:47:09 -0400 (EDT) From: TeaRoseS@aol.com Message-ID: <375.a69e3d1.323c795d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:47:09 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1690s undergarments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:49:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450B1FCA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi guys! I just bought this pattern: _www.reconstructinghistory.com_ (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com) (_http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns/ridingoutfit.html_ (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns/ridingoutfit.html) ) . So far it looks great, but it doesn't include the undergarment, which I'm going to assume is a high-necked chemise with a collar like a man's shirt. Can someone show me what kind of collar I need for this look? The version I'm making is from 1692 France; it's the one on the right in that link, with the foofy hat. (What? Isn't that the technical term?) :) Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 15 18:14:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FMEjQn029292 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:14:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8FMEg4x023946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:14:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FM9NEF029686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:09:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FM9Lxk082318; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:09:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp303.his.com (smtp303.his.com [216.194.210.47]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FM9GeQ082237 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:09:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lola@his.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp303.his.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29B315B649 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:09:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp303.his.com ([216.194.210.47]) by localhost (smtp303.his.com [216.194.210.47]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28520-04 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:09:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail101.his.com (mail101.his.com [216.194.225.77]) by smtp303.his.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A6D15B644 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:09:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.10] (c-68-50-82-54.hsd1.md.comcast.net [68.50.82.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail101.his.com (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k8FM91mp002193 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:09:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lola@his.com) Message-ID: <450B2489.7070507@his.com> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:09:13 -0400 From: "Lola J. Lee Beno" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Macintosh/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at smtp502.his.com X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.336 tagged_above=-99 required=5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1.8, AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599] X-Spam-Score: -4.336 X-Spam-Level: X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Looking for German Royalty History Website X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:14:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450B25D2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO There's a website that was in German, and had all sorts of information and images of royalty and common people, such as Kathe von Bora; one of the URLs I have for it is http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/bkatalog.html. However, it's no longer there, and I can't remember the name of the person who put it all together - if I remember correctly, she wrote several books in German about royal figures who lived during the 16th century, especially from the Hapsburg family. Does anyone know if it still exists at another location, or if all those wonderful images and historical tidbits are gone forever. I'd appreciate it very much if you could also cc me in private, since I check this list on an irregular basis. Thanks! -- Lola - mailto:lola@his.com http://www.lolajl.net | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/ Freedom is not free. I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 15 18:54:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FMsIKP030089 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:54:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8FMsFN9012961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:54:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FMrUuf034363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:53:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FMrQK0016808; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:53:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FMrN9f016768 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E65C370CD for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:53:22 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for German Royalty History Website Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:53:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <450B2489.7070507@his.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8FMrN9f016768 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:54:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450B2F17.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Could it be this? http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/ probably not but worth a try. De -----Original Message----- There's a website that was in German, and had all sorts of information and images of royalty and common people, such as Kathe von Bora; one of the URLs I have for it is http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/bkatalog.html. However, it's no longer there, and I can't remember the name of the person who put it all together - if I remember correctly, she wrote several books in German about royal figures who lived during the 16th century, especially from the Hapsburg family. Does anyone know if it still exists at another location, or if all those wonderful images and historical tidbits are gone forever. I'd appreciate it very much if you could also cc me in private, since I check this list on an irregular basis. Thanks! -- Lola - mailto:lola@his.com http://www.lolajl.net | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/ Freedom is not free. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 15 19:27:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FNRW2L030577 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 19:27:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8FNRSXA016884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 19:27:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FNRABk037725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:27:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FNR7cd038865; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep05.xtra.co.nz (fep05.xtra.co.nz [210.54.141.241]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8FNR2K8038779 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 2006 17:27:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from [10.1.1.3] (really [219.89.178.38]) by fep05.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20060915232650.LSWG24954.fep05.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:26:50 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.1.405 [268.12.4/449]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:26:57 +1200 Message-ID: <003f01c6d91e$6fdf28a0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for German Royalty History Website Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:26:51 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 15 Sep 2006 19:27:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 450B36E0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO > There's a website that was in German, and had all sorts of information > and images of royalty and common people, such as Kathe von Bora; one of > the URLs I have for it is > http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/bkatalog.html. > Could it be this? > http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/ > probably not but worth a try. lol! No it's not my site, but I do link to it quite a bit, so I really should update. Thanks for the accidental reminder;) The site has transfered to it's own domain name, and I was just there last night. http://www.kleio.org/bkatalog.html That should take you to a page where you can get to all the sections. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: 15/09/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 11:43:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GFh8Om015744 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:43:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8GFh5n1005040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:43:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GFfuSI032741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 09:41:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GFfnX5000273; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 09:41:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s26.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s26.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.98]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GFfjjc000125 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 09:41:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.25]) by bay0-omc1-s26.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 08:41:40 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 08:41:40 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 24.222.128.141 by BAY121-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 15:41:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.222.128.141] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <375.a69e3d1.323c795d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1690s undergarments Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:41:40 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2006 15:41:40.0138 (UTC) FILETIME=[9A31A0A0:01C6D9A6] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:43:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450C1B89.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO The shift should have just a rectangular collar like a man's shirt. The other stuff is a stock, basically a long hemmed strip of linen that's tied around your neck. You start with the centre of the strip at the front neck, cross in the back and bring it around to the front and tie it like a cravat. The slit on the shift neck opening could also have ruffles down each edge to add to the general floufiness. Hope that's what you were asking for! Have fun! Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1690s undergarments > Hi guys! I just bought this pattern: _www.reconstructinghistory.com_ > (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com) > (_http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns/ridingoutfit.html_ > (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns/ridingoutfit.html) ) . So > far it looks great, but it doesn't include the undergarment, > which I'm going to assume is a high-necked chemise with a collar like a > man's shirt. Can someone show me what kind of collar I need for this > look? The > version I'm making is from 1692 France; it's the one on the right in that > link, > with the foofy hat. (What? Isn't that the technical term?) :) > > Tea Rose > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 14:21:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GILkRG019103 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:21:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8GILfaF004420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:21:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIKmL7049567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:20:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIKjeg008794; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:20:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxo2.broadbandsupport.net (mxo2.broadbandsupport.net [209.55.3.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIKf5r008714 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:20:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@clearviewcatv.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (host-67-128-70-97.clearviewcatv.net [67.128.70.97]) by mxo2.broadbandsupport.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5431334905F for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: cahuff@mail.clearviewcatv.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com> References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:20:17 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: cahuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-broadbandsupport-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupport-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupport-MailScanner-From: cahuff@clearviewcatv.net X-Spam-Status: No X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so I don't buy them more than once... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:21:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450C40B5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Hi I found LibrayThing.com to catalog books, there are several sites/programs to catalog CDs, I have my own system to catalog embroidery threads (that now needs more updating as DMC expands their lines) and natural dye samples SOOOOOO What do y'all use (besides the tattered paper list method) to keep track of your patterns? And does anyone have a recommendation for a good image cataloging system... I surrender on the cloth--it just lives in flat folds of like material on the shelves...it's happy and currently I'm happy.... Ta Carol-It's Fall approaching that is making me get crazy!!!! I swear!!! -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 14:35:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIZhbd019365 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:35:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8GIZdkB008896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIZDak051121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:35:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIZA3i018084; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:35:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIZ6Po018003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:35:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GOf0J-0005tw-OM; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:35:03 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:35:03 -0400 Message-ID: <20060916143503.fbd40f7nwbkgcksw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:35:03 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so I don't buy them more than once... References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.1) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:35:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450C43FB.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO Quoting cahuff : > Hi > I found LibrayThing.com to catalog books, there are several > sites/programs to catalog CDs, I have my own system to catalog > embroidery threads (that now needs more updating as DMC expands their > lines) and natural dye samples > > SOOOOOO > > What do y'all use (besides the tattered paper list method) to keep > track of your patterns? Microsoft Works > > And does anyone have a recommendation for a good image cataloging system... I use Br PhotoArchiver, but the new version is called PixFiler http://www.br-software.com/ susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 14:53:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIrfS0019754 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:53:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8GIrbEw018862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:53:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIr5IF053113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:53:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GIqtle038767; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:52:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k6B5nSmh095257 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 23:49:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ctrvlyfarm@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 94707 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jul 2006 05:49:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Ni8puM3MDqodUMctInYO63dCJrB9OWALdhAql3dLQstUHWXM/08f9BWxdfB17odFXKVJ3ZB+Q6Hk8MzgYSCkQrrcEt4Hvefnu7r5AIEaXg7zL4x386Mq517E56thy+v9MPb8LdgUeLWElD8zme6wD2MvG0R5zOxSSP/CboHc0fg= ; Message-ID: <20060711054922.94705.qmail@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.254.13.94] by web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:49:22 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:49:22 -0700 (PDT) From: REBECCA BURCH To: me MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:52:50 -0600 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ansel at Bristol Faire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:53:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450C4831.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 9daa01c0-4dc7-42b4-8c15-e64c136b69cd Status: RO If anybody would be interested in seeing the finished garb I made for Ansel to wear at Faire this year - use the link below to get to John Wohler's site. Click on the 2006 album (picture of a clown) and on the Sunday 7/9 page, pictures 76, 96 and 100 show him wearing it. He would be the young one wearing gold with burgundy trim and long hair. Oh well, at least he trimmed the beard. http://www.wohlershome.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=46 Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 16:00:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GK0EwE021393 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:00:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8GK07lt013667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:00:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GJxCcq059845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:59:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GJx96C022430; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:59:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GJx5HV022342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:59:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.87] (209-148-118-87.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.87]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k8GJx2MH024420 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:59:04 -0700 Message-ID: <450C578F.4080603@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:59:11 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so I don't buy them more than once... References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com> <20060916143503.fbd40f7nwbkgcksw@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20060916143503.fbd40f7nwbkgcksw@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:00:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450C57C7.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 94a54dea-2800-421a-b3a4-cf0644de99d8 Status: RO >> >> What do y'all use (besides the tattered paper list method) to keep >> track of your patterns? Nothing whatever. I own several thousand books, over a thousand of which are on costuming; hundreds of fashion magazines; and hundreds of patterns. I started out with my books on the shelves in order by author's last name, and also categorized roughly by type (costuming, literature/fiction, strictly work-related (things like style manuals, books on book design, etc.) and other nonfiction. The large stacks on the floors in most rooms which have overspilled the shelves, are still categorized by content--I have different types of books in different rooms of my house, with BTW the cookbooks of all eras in the kitchen. But the author's name organization scheme has gone by the wayside there, since that's too hard to maintain in vertical stacking. I used to have all my patterns-in envelopes on boxes organized by era, then by reproduction versus original. I also used to have the fashion and pattern magazines organized by run of magazine, but now they're just in stacks. Not being a neat person by any means, I'd far rather buy the occasional duplicate than spend hours and hours entering all that stuff into a computer program. I'm pretty good at remembering titles and authors, and sort of good at remembering where I saw something last. Fran _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 16:19:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GKIwob021766 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:18:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8GKIsTW027837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:18:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GKHvIe061860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:17:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GKHtRG046600; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:17:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GKHpb4046383 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:17:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D69FA7657 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 15:17:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <450C5BFA.5050403@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 15:18:02 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so I don't buy them more than once... References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:18:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450C5C2E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 388469ce-34b2-483c-80c7-070edb3870de Status: RO cahuff wrote: > What do y'all use (besides the tattered paper list method) to keep track > of your patterns? I have a few hundred patterns. (Yikes!) They're all in cardboard pattern boxes covered in pretty fabric. I put a sticker on them with MFR and number range. For example "B 2145-2290" has all my Butterick patterns in that range. The boxes sit on the tops of the bookcases that line my sewing room. I have separate boxes for costume/historical, craft, and 'mundane' clothing. I started when I only had one box worth, so it hasn't been a big effort to keep it up, covering new boxes and all. There's no index, but if I need to know if I have a certain number, it's easy to grab the right box and look. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 18:46:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GMk6Te024911 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 18:46:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8GMk3FV017181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 18:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GMjAAt079493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:45:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GMj5Sd036058; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:45:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.135]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8GMj0ND035865 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:45:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ctrvlyfarm@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 77270 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Sep 2006 22:44:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=oNfKNg9U4kiP6z/3eHEdz6HLrxsdxqZHFONSJNLBX1ZCpXBxM+S2umR43+8d/JYVmdNoGzSgrUrWYB6jqZU6Gcn7j9y1P/lqJe7eSKivSm8yHlDHxoFca2p0MQEICuJM2mbFwDeaPK2X6sU7cF1W8rh2cygbKkqxnVdYV21/MVc= ; Message-ID: <20060916224454.77268.qmail@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.252.47.20] by web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 15:44:54 PDT Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 15:44:54 -0700 (PDT) From: REBECCA BURCH Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ansel at Bristol Faire To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20060711054922.94705.qmail@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 18:46:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450C7EAB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 620931a6-f725-4962-8484-1cd41ebb459c Status: RO Can anybody tell me why this has come around again? I know I didn't resend it. It just seems odd that it would show up over 2 months after being sent. Rebecca --- REBECCA BURCH wrote: > If anybody would be interested in seeing the > finished > garb I made for Ansel to wear at Faire this year - > use > the link below to get to John Wohler's site. Click > on > the 2006 album (picture of a clown) and on the > Sunday > 7/9 page, pictures 76, 96 and 100 show him wearing > it. > > He would be the young one wearing gold with burgundy > trim and long hair. Oh well, at least he trimmed > the > beard. > > > http://www.wohlershome.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=46 > > > > Rebecca Burch > Center Valley Farm > Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 18:51:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GMpGKb025073 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 18:51:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8GMpCPr026498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 18:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GModtV080060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:50:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GMocvO042726; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:50:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [216.148.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8GMoZoN042527 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 16:50:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy4@comcast.net) Received: from stuckis (c-71-207-16-152.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[71.207.16.152]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060916225029m11009l6ove>; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 22:50:29 +0000 Message-ID: <011601c6d9e2$81c33c90$9810cf47@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com> <450C5BFA.5050403@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so I don'tbuy them more than once... Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 18:50:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 450C7FE0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 4ed1274d-e7e0-4e3f-9f99-e469e277350a Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so I don'tbuy them more than once... > cahuff wrote: > > > What do y'all use (besides the tattered paper list method) to keep > track >> of your patterns? > > I have a few hundred patterns. (Yikes!) They're all in cardboard pattern > boxes covered in pretty fabric. I put a sticker on them with MFR and > number range. For example "B 2145-2290" has all my Butterick patterns in > that range. The boxes sit on the tops of the bookcases that line my sewing > room. I have separate boxes for costume/historical, craft, and 'mundane' > clothing. I have a cabinet, 36" wide, 30" tall, and 24" deep, with two huge drawers in it with dividers. The top drawer holds all my Simplicity costume patterns, the bottom drawer holds the few McCalls and Buttericks that I have, plus clothing and craft patterns, all in numerical order. The private pattern companies, such as Period Patterns, Fantasy Fashions, and Reconstructing History, are in a deep drawer in my sewing table. (Actually a great big old office desk.) The Margo Anderson's are in a 3-ring binder. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 21:33:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8H1X7fD028564 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:33:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8H1X3oh011215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:33:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8H1WX66098241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 19:32:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8H1WSRg043856; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 19:32:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8H1WNS5043666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 19:32:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:20187 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GOlWG-0000N6-DH for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:32:28 -0500 Message-ID: <050d01c6d9f9$1da75ef0$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com><450C5BFA.5050403@reddawn.net> <011601c6d9e2$81c33c90$9810cf47@Stuckis> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so Idon'tbuy them more than once... Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:32:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:33:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450CA5CF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 2e9e0fb9-50b3-49f2-8872-f216dc83af32 Status: RO I onlyu have about 10 commercial patterns, but I have a ton of patterns I've made myself. I haven't really yet come up with a good way to organize them, sigh. Most of them are in the form of hip-length mulsins, which I put in gallon-size ziplocs; I sketch out the pattern on a piece of paper, and add the date and either my size or what I weighed when I fit it (my weight yoyos up and down a lot). The paper gets put in the front of the bag. I've got a box full of them, and it's depressingly hard to find the one I want when I want it! It would probably be harder, but there's only a dozen or so basic variations of the form-fitting dresses that I tend to make. I haven't gone into my corset pattern box for a few years, so there's no telling what's in there... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 16 23:22:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8H3Mm4p031165 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:22:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8H3Mi5n032456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:22:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8H3Llvi010082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:21:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8H3LJAe081792; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:21:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s25.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s25.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.161]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8H3LFoY081616 for ; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from laswa@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.168.47]) by bay0-omc2-s25.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:21:11 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:21:10 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.168.200 by by113fd.bay113.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 03:21:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.77.244.23] X-Originating-Email: [laswa@hotmail.com] X-Sender: laswa@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <050d01c6d9f9$1da75ef0$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "zelda crusher" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns soIdon'tbuy them more than once... Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:21:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2006 03:21:10.0624 (UTC) FILETIME=[528D8E00:01C6DA08] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:22:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450CBF84.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: dfc9fddf-ea06-4887-bb5b-f4de8a3891b9 Status: RO I store mine in the form of tracings (on butcher paper) wrapped around bolt ends from the fabric store, One sheet of paper wraps them up and gets labelled and then I put a label on the end of the bolt so I can see what style and size, and made to whose measure on what date. Laurie >From: "E House" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: "Historical Costume" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns >soIdon'tbuy them more than once... >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 20:32:16 -0500 > >I onlyu have about 10 commercial patterns, but I have a ton of patterns >I've made myself. I haven't really yet come up with a good way to organize >them, sigh. Most of them are in the form of hip-length mulsins, which I put >in gallon-size ziplocs; I sketch out the pattern on a piece of paper, and >add the date and either my size or what I weighed when I fit it (my weight >yoyos up and down a lot). The paper gets put in the front of the bag. > >I've got a box full of them, and it's depressingly hard to find the one I >want when I want it! It would probably be harder, but there's only a dozen >or so basic variations of the form-fitting dresses that I tend to make. I >haven't gone into my corset pattern box for a few years, so there's no >telling what's in there... > >-E House > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 09:16:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HDGgAo026018 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:16:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HDGccl006907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:16:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HDFiFt083302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 07:15:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HDFd40045511; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 07:15:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HDFZTQ045303 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 07:15:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2006 14:15:29 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAO/mDEWBT4ocAQECBwIMBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:2220 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GOwTb-0008jZ-So for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:14:27 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:15:17 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Suzi Clarke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:16:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450D4AB6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 0eea6a5d-a856-46e8-a6fa-2f10f19967df Status: RO I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of this month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, only in a plain fabric. I have a beautiful "horned" headdress which fits perfectly, and looks good, again based on the painting, but is a pain in the b*tt to eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's a part of the meal, and gets in my way. http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could wear instead? A coif is unsuitable as I will be with other people, not in a domestic situation. My hair is very short and needs concealing. Bear in mind please I have two costumes for other people to make in that two weeks, and therefor have zero time to fiddle and make anything elaborate for myself. Oh, and hennins of any shape and size are not me! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 10:07:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HE7S9j027644 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:07:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HE7OVl017259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HE6tFZ088076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 08:06:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HE6r8F012791; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 08:06:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HE6jtv012496 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 08:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.3b4.718ae1c (60441) for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by ciaaol-d03.mail.aol.com (v112_r1.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLD032-ec19450d566c168; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:06:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <050d01c6d9f9$1da75ef0$7e00a8c0@compaqub> References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com><450C5BFA.5050403@reddawn.net> <011601c6d9e2$81c33c90$9810cf47@Stuckis> <050d01c6d9f9$1da75ef0$7e00a8c0@compaqub> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so Idon'tbuy them more than once... Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:06:32 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 450D569C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: fe04c2bf-5c78-4bfa-9f48-2869d50e4fac Status: RO Susan On Sep 16, 2006, at 9:32 PM, E House wrote: > I onlyu have about 10 commercial patterns, but I have a ton of > patterns I've made myself. I haven't really yet come up with a good > way to organize them, sigh. Most of them are in the form of hip-length > mulsins, which I put in gallon-size ziplocs; I sketch out the pattern > on a piece of paper, and add the date and either my size or what I > weighed when I fit it (my weight yoyos up and down a lot). The paper > gets put in the front of the bag. > > I've got a box full of them, and it's depressingly hard to find the > one I want when I want it! It would probably be harder, but there's > only a dozen or so basic variations of the form-fitting dresses that I > tend to make. I haven't gone into my corset pattern box for a few > years, so there's no telling what's in there... How about putting a photo of the finished garment in the front of the zip lock bag to help you see what you are looking for? Would that speed the process? Susan "My treasures do not clink together or glitter, they gleam in the sun and neigh in the night." Bedouin proverb _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 10:56:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HEuBTg028804 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:56:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HEu7BC020488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:56:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HEtWJR093686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 08:55:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HEtRwR080836; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 08:55:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s14.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s14.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.214]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HEtN2D080640 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 08:55:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.77]) by bay0-omc3-s14.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 07:55:18 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 07:55:18 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:55:13 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "TheRenaissanceTailor" , "GermanRenCostume" , "h-costume" Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 07:55:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 07:55:26 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2006 14:55:18.0485 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A9CD050:01C6DA69] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Extant Mil. Base. Davenport's picture vs Paynes and METs. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:56:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450D6207.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 68a7e55a-47a5-4c81-a2cd-38df0ec85a42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8HEuBTg028804 Status: RO Sorry for the cross posting confusion. I have replaced the photo of the Military base with some illustrations of the insignia and the brocade pattern. http://www.saragrace.us/METMilBases.html Any experts on heraldry out there? Doesn't look like much to me. Thanks for your interest, Saragrace Knauf ----- Original Message ----- From: Saragrace Knauf To: TheRenaissanceTailor Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:29 AM Subject: Extant Mil. Base. Davenport's picture vs Paynes and METs. Hi, the page you uploaded is an executable file...is that what you meant to do? I found the picture in Davenport's book. I compared it to the pictures I have of the inside of the bases. It looks to be the same one. I counted the pleats as best I could, looked at the relative placement of the straps. There is also a telltale piece of light fabric on the inside right of the base (from the viewer's perspective while the base is inside out, top up.) The picture is not good enough to see the insignia stamp. The note says "XVIc. 1525. German. Maximilian.", and doesn't give a location. Davenport's book (1948) predates Payne's (1965): I suppose it is possible that the bases were still in Saxony at the time. I have traced both the stamp and the brocade pattern and am trying to get it up on my website. I am redoing it in Dreamweaver, so it is taking me longer than normal. I am still waiting to hear from the Met. And I haven't gotten off my duff yet to inquire with Renaissance Fabric expert yet - will try to get that done today. Thanks for your patience. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 11:11:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HFB54Y029140 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:11:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HFB1fQ028443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:11:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HFAMr3095458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:10:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HFALkr001049; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:10:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HFAHKU000898 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:10:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC900A7659 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:10:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <450D656C.3060300@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:10:36 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:11:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450D6585.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: b5fecd2c-a049-494b-bde6-0f5b86422ddf Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > but is a pain in > the b*tt to eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's a part of the meal, > and gets in my way. > > http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could wear instead? A coif > is unsuitable as I will be with other people, not in a domestic > situation. The Tres Riches Heures has a few scenes with ladies in gowns and headdresses, there might be an alternative for you there. April and May have the scenes with the ladies. One is wearing a padded, stuffed roll with no veil. It's a few decades earlier, but I think it will still look ok with a houppelande. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 11:46:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from persephone.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HFkWQw030066 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:46:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by persephone.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HFkSvQ026830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:46:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HFjvRR001033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:45:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HFjrm1049181; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:45:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HFjlVS048962 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:45:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 17 Sep 2006 16:45:41 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAANoHDUWBT4ocAQECBwIMBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:2771 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GOyox-000EhO-SI for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:44:39 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917163236.0397c938@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:45:38 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? In-Reply-To: <450D656C.3060300@reddawn.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> <450D656C.3060300@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (persephone.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:46:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at persephone with ID 450D6DD4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! Status: RO At 16:10 17/09/2006, you wrote: >Suzi Clarke wrote: > >>but is a pain in the b*tt to eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's >>a part of the meal, and gets in my way. >>http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm >>Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could wear instead? A >>coif is unsuitable as I will be with other people, not in a domestic situation. > >The Tres Riches Heures has a few scenes with ladies in gowns and >headdresses, there might be an alternative for you there. April and >May have the scenes with the ladies. One is wearing a padded, >stuffed roll with no veil. It's a few decades earlier, but I think >it will still look ok with a houppelande. > Ooh, thanks - I'll go and look at my pix of that - thought it would be too early. I think on the SCA Atlantia site I have seen a "pillbox" type hat on the back of a head, worn with a houppelande, and I could cope with that too. I looked at the Atlantia site earlier today, and there were pages and pages of headdresses, but I didn't bookmark it - stupid or what - and cannot find it again. Anybody have the site address for the pictures? I can find all the text pages. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 12:15:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGFVNt030803 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:15:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HGFRHW032452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:15:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGEH78005064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:14:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGEEDo088372; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:14:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGE8IT088209 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:14:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 12so1377155nzp for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=e35GhYYV8X4QKnxsy4TB63qUOV9iazB5QSEqesoFhnJr/UaI455p5jhi83erIMD/zKu3mRVzgwIm+PG1iOEsFrvnTO0FNTsn93RISMgAuNOi5v4kWQ82nkFfEquZZseyQOo4tLNXby/mHrbxsXQWVIZpCGflU+ZS05i871dZY5g= Received: by 10.64.7.20 with SMTP id 20mr11604828qbg; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.237.12 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:14:07 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile of patterns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:15:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450D749F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 895b494a-49b8-4bd5-aec5-d35d54d2c58f Status: RO I use 2 legal size file cabinets. All patterns, whether designed for me or for someone else, are in the cabinet, as are the few commercial ones. The patterns are sorted by historical date of the target garment. This works very well for me as I have little interest in sewing anything after WWII or so. The questions I'm most likely to be answering when searching the cabinet is "where's that ballgown?" or "do I have a doublet that's his size?" There is also a section in the cabinet of "small patterns" for cuffs, coifs, gloves, turnsoles, hat forms and similar small accessory items. These are grouped by century, if there's a number of them. Mostly they're all in one file there together. The file cabinets also hold reference works, like xeroxed pages out of vintage sewing manuals, original Petersen's magazines in plastic sleeves, embroidery or beading charts. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 12:15:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGFxhU030817 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:15:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HGFttI006570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:15:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGFEEZ005220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:15:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGFDoi089788; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:15:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGEfsY089030 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:15:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so4612895pye for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:15:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=ElnsIu4647CHfZFadIg1Y9OD/edaalXhWDqHATBeoBVfW9p0F5MiI/iDwWb4SVMhobjJfdydiybkx8JA7l6NCXXDK58ux/fnMDJJJOh+gEP3nnizEnU9MzpwtWpZ27mxmpb9zxukvMCgc6Jj3ve2BeyuBRizD/oUwxdBBck6aHw= Received: by 10.65.59.20 with SMTP id m20mr11607462qbk; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.237.12 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:15:11 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:15:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450D74BB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 26c2c9ae-d4a6-44f6-959e-e6dc29449196 Status: RO >http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm >Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could wear instead? A >coif is unsuitable as I will be with other people, not in a domestic >situation. My hair is very short and needs concealing. Suzi, Wear the hennin you have. Then at mealtime, how about having a friend put a few small straight pins in the veil, perhaps even pinning to the hennin. Do this to keep the veil off your fork. Remove the pins after dinner. I cant think of anything more time saving than that. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 12:20:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGKkQn030971 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:20:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HGKg5M002855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGJaCv005882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:19:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGJYL3095749; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:19:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HGJVtE095675 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:19:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m230.in-tch.com [216.166.191.230]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k8HG7vQ05999 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:07:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000401c6da76$331443c0$e6bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:27:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:20:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450D75DA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: f514f0e3-2870-4452-9562-e5179ab01bd0 Status: RO I'm sorry, but I don't know enough about 15th century fashion to be able to help much with anything specific. One thing I did notice, however (and this is pre-breakfast tea, so take it for what it's worth...). The painting is from a specific area of the continent (Netherlands, yes?). What about looking at head/hat styles of the same time period, but from other countries like England or France or Italy or Germany? Time permitting, of course, but there might be something in another, regional style that would work for you. Having said that, I'm now going to start envying you to bits, over the sheer idea of going to York (where I've been only once...*sniff*), let alone having an event in a medieval building! --Sue in Montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:15 AM Subject: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? > > > I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of > this month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, > only in a plain fabric. I have a beautiful "horned" headdress which > fits perfectly, and looks good, again based on the painting, but is a > pain in the b*tt to eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's a part of > the meal, and gets in my way. > > http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could wear instead? A > coif is unsuitable as I will be with other people, not in a domestic > situation. My hair is very short and needs concealing. Bear in mind > please I have two costumes for other people to make in that two > weeks, and therefor have zero time to fiddle and make anything > elaborate for myself. Oh, and hennins of any shape and size are not me! > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 13:16:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HHGFB2032494 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:16:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HHGBdN024173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:16:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HHFO7Y013650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:15:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HHFMhZ067834; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:15:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HHFHBR067622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:15:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:22519 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GP0Ef-0003j8-Tq for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:15:18 -0500 Message-ID: <055701c6da7c$d6a31650$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com><450C5BFA.5050403@reddawn.net><011601c6d9e2$81c33c90$9810cf47@Stuckis><050d01c6d9f9$1da75ef0$7e00a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns soIdon'tbuy them more than once... Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 12:15:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 450D82DB.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 61454b63-e223-4ed4-b675-bf9d1c4f10a3 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Data-Samtak" > How about putting a photo of the finished garment in the front of the zip > lock bag to help you see what you are looking for? Would that speed the > process? Good idea, though I use the digital camera for everything, so I'd have to print it out on my black & white printer... should work anyway, though! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 16:43:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HKhuCD006025 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:43:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HKhqYg002928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:43:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HKgMU4039945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:42:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HKg60S032206; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:42:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37915.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37915.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8HKg3c3032019 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 14:42:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63521 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Sep 2006 20:41:58 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=B1MXre/WGoFkVV+KEedwQgHCxtG6cwQ+/Wz7Mu+GI0w2j57jkyJwB/x9Z+UmBOlbNYXcKpkTJ88nEHR1u/SHqMYpuqcW+iw+vH3G0+fL//hbfte1tuyjOTVgN/r2LiJM9WU2RPq1sEwu/1zK3lCiqriuBU4jm/Pux80n5wWPn8k= ; Message-ID: <20060917204158.63519.qmail@web37915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.148.244.88] by web37915.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:41:58 PDT Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:41:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Galadriel Lothlorien To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200609171800.k8HI0MZp025543@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile of patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 450DB388.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 48aecbe7-8708-49ec-83ca-f639a258156f Status: RO I seemed to have missed the original post, so I'm not sure of the exact question, but thought I'd throw in my 2c. What I do is put a shrunken-down copy of the line drawing I got from my designer on the front, and a shrunken-down copy of the actor's measurements on the back. If I don't have the measurement sheet, I put the essentials (bust/chest, waist, hips, height, etc.). On the front, I also include what the pattern is inside with a description ("a-line pleated robe", etc.), the show, date, and the designer's name (just so I'm not stepping on any toes by having a copy of a rendering without giving due credit). This prevents me from having to print out any photos, though a finished shot would be nice. I will then catalogue them by date at some point in my life when I go through and weed out all the crappy commercial patterns I collected for so many years. --Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 18:01:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HM1uGH007517 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 18:01:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HM1oVl008592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 18:01:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HM1LXM048632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:01:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HM1E5W034670; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:01:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp101.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8HM1Ab3034467 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:01:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: (qmail 6436 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2006 22:01:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@71.142.202.231 with plain) by smtp101.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2006 22:01:05 -0000 Message-ID: <450DC5A9.8040804@fenris.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 15:01:13 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile O patterns so I don't buy them more than once... References: <200609161800.k8GI0RSR095928@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 18:01:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450DC5CE.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 9fee088f-17ef-4ef3-b963-cde29d988bdc Status: RO cahuff wrote: > What do y'all use (besides the tattered paper list method) to keep track > of your patterns? I don't have them cataloged; they are sorted into banker's boxes under my own system. Historical patterns have their own box - both patterns I've drafted and ones I've bought. Folkwear has two boxes, one for patterns that fit me and one for patterns that have yet to be reissued in my size or that I have not yet altered to fit. Vintage patterns (20th century before 1980) reprints or originals have a box. I think hat patterns are in there also. And I have one box of modern commercial sewing patterns that I can use with little alteration. I used to have a box or two of patterns that did not fit me anymore. I got ruthless last year and went through them, tossing the hopelessly outdated, incomplete, unusable, and finding homes for the intact ones. Felt good. liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 17 19:16:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HNGIc2009030 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:16:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8HNGC9X020554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HNFNEL059537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:15:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HNFI0K034627; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:15:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8HNFDQk034516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:15:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-213-46-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.213.46]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8HNFAFm009918 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:15:12 +1000 Message-ID: <000d01c6daaf$1f4b0520$2ed5f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:15:08 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 450DD73C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 3e1f8be8-04cc-48cb-ac68-7d763feeba03 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? > > > I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of this > month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, only in a > plain fabric. I have a beautiful "horned" headdress which fits perfectly, > and looks good, again based on the painting, but is a pain in the b*tt to > eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's a part of the meal, and gets in my > way. > > http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm > instead of coming up with something new what about pinning back the trailing pieces of veil so they can't get in the way? based on that picture I'd assume the issue is the bottom corners slipping forwards from the back, but if you pinned the corners together at the back (perhaps just temporarily while you're eating) you could avoid eating your veil. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 02:36:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I6afOp030911 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 02:36:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8I6abfv021093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 02:36:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I6a3Lc009800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 00:36:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I6ZvjG098704; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 00:35:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I6Zs7M098626 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 00:35:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C9D93C1CF for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 01:35:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 01:36:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000401c6da76$331443c0$e6bfa6d8@pavilion> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 02:36:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450E3E75.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 9d5abdf8-58bc-4635-ba94-80e08e921635 Status: RO If the veil is the same length and it is pinned correctly there really shouldn't be a problem. Otherwise Flemish/Netherland/Burgundian tended to share fashions around this period. http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/burgundian-hennin.html This gives a variation of yours with location of pins http://www.virtue.to/articles/arnolfini.html http://www.virtue.to/articles/butterfly.html De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 03:22:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I7M36R011926 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 03:22:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8I7Lx25004749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 03:22:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I7LHJL013780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 01:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I7LF9L047061; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 01:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I7L8gI046847 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 01:21:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2006 08:21:02 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAABDkDUWBToocAQECBwIMBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:1069 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GPDQ7-000N0i-Qg for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:19:59 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060918081643.039e0228@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:20:00 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? In-Reply-To: References: <000401c6da76$331443c0$e6bfa6d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 03:22:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450E4917.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 37ee5256-7df6-4f69-9682-8ce8851fb086 Status: RO At 07:36 18/09/2006, you wrote: >If the veil is the same length and it is pinned correctly there really >shouldn't be a problem. >Otherwise Flemish/Netherland/Burgundian tended to share fashions around this >period. >http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/burgundian-hennin.html > >This gives a variation of yours with location of pins >http://www.virtue.to/articles/arnolfini.html >http://www.virtue.to/articles/butterfly.html > >De I don't have a hennin, but that was one of the pages I "lost" so thank you for that. I have my veil pinned, with proper medieval style pins, but because it is not as fine as the ones apparently used in medieval times, it seems to have a life of its own. I really wanted something slightly less formal, as it really is quite a responsibility! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 05:49:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I9nIWG003793 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 05:49:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8I9nEwk019352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 05:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I9mL0r029888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 03:48:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I9mFSU038015; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 03:48:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8I9m8C2037897 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 03:48:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 287A13AD19 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:48:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:48:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 05:49:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450E6B9A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 2fd771e7-cabd-4829-9c49-88fa21d336ff Status: RO Some possible ideas. Memling http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hans_Memling_048.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hans_Memling_049.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hans_Memling_071.jpg no veil http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=14586 take with a grain of salt http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=14606 Something simple, http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=14601 http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOnezoom.asp?dep=11&zoomFlag=0&view mode=1&item=50%2E145%2E28 De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 06:24:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IAOsBY010412 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 06:24:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8IAOoJ6004889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 06:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IAODDN033469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IAOCe2083763; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:24:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IAO8WB083551 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20060918102402.EIAC461.fep35.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:24:02 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.68]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20060918102402.GSBA19545.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:24:02 +0200 Message-ID: <003601c6db0c$99671d00$446ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:24:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.164.110.68] at Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:23:59 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] back from hollidays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 06:24:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450E73F2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 6184ecb1-1029-474e-8ea7-814b062e0a60 Status: RO Hi, I'm back from wonderfull Scicilly again and subscribed back to h-costume. I dont have much news, except i got more pictures from Alexias ball: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork2.htm Working on an anglaise dress now, wich off cause also is going to be embroidered: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htm I had taken with me the embroidery, but i had to give up making much on it, it simply was two hot, and my fingers got oily all the time. I really feel sorry for all you, who lives in warm parts of the world, at least its not god for a scandinavian like me....... But otherwise the holliday was lovely. I got to know quite many interresting spots there, visiting greek and roman theaters, and temples.. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 06:26:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IAQfYb011450 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 06:26:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8IAQbZV005763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 06:26:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IAQEFw033586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:26:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IAQDaQ086368; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:26:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IAQ7JW086121 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 04:26:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2006 11:26:01 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAABgRDkWBToodAQECBwQKBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:1658 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GPGK9-000MXA-DJ for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:26:01 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060918112317.039d6c90@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:25:58 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 06:26:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450E745D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 72ea1d5f-c327-4221-bcd4-b769e0e0337d Status: RO At 10:48 18/09/2006, you wrote: >Some possible ideas. >Memling >http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hans_Memling_048.jpg >http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hans_Memling_049.jpg >http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hans_Memling_071.jpg >no veil >http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=14586 >take with a grain of salt >http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=14606 >Something simple, >http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=14601 >http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOnezoom.asp?dep=11&zoomFlag=0&view >mode=1&item=50%2E145%2E28 I can't make the last one work - my fault I suspect. I love the "something simple you have there - and I could do that - much lighter weight and easier for the event. Thank you. Also the one you suggest taking with a grain of salt - I have seen a similar one else where, and could do that too as I have the shape ready made. I do have a very low hairline though, and I think I'll go for the simple veil. Thanks again. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 11:35:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IFZIQe030154 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:35:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8IFZFkk026717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:35:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IFYM6l079412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IFYDG9092603; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:34:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IFY1ii092402 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:34:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 825C03C8BD for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:34:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] back from hollidays Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:34:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <003601c6db0c$99671d00$446ea450@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 11:35:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450EBCB3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 2d49efa7-15fe-4169-ae95-8d9ca5158991 Status: RO Welcome back! :) I was once told that if you don't like hot weather then you need to go to Venice and not Sicily. Of coarse the person telling me this was from Venice. :) Alexia looks like the Lady of the ball in that gown. The Anglaise gown's embroidery is a lovely pattern. small note: On the bottom of Alexia's page (stumpwork2) it says: "I want to thank my costumer, Alexia S Jacobs" I believe you are wanting "customer" and not "costumer" unless Alexia was the one who sewed the garment. As always, you do beautiful work. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 12:16:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IGG1Hf031344 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:16:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8IGFv4Y022170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:16:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IGEYBi086850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:14:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IGETXg043519; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:14:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IGEH0p043227 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:14:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.10497031; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:13:56 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k8IGDuA01637.; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:13:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:13:55 +0100 Message-Id: <450ED3C702000014000C0B0A@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:13:43 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1690s undergarments References: <375.a69e3d1.323c795d@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <375.a69e3d1.323c795d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:16:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450EC63D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 64a44a28-6fcb-403f-bb3d-7e1f7de1d96f Status: RO As far as I know, shirts of that period just had a narrow neckband or a minimal collar. The cravat would be a separate long strip of linen. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> 15/09/2006 22:47 >>> Hi guys! I just bought this pattern: _www.reconstructinghistory.com_ (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com) (_http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns/ridingoutfit.html_ (http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns/ridingoutfit.html) ) . So far it looks great, but it doesn't include the undergarment, which I'm going to assume is a high-necked chemise with a collar like a man's shirt. Can someone show me what kind of collar I need for this look? The version I'm making is from 1692 France; it's the one on the right in that link, with the foofy hat. (What? Isn't that the technical term?) :) Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 15:50:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IJouRx005055 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:50:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8IJoqRx029864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:50:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IJnWqB021651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:49:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IJnLmg084050; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:49:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IJcK4d071405 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:38:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20060918193813.EAFH26558.fep30.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:38:13 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.68]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20060918193813.HNMY1987.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:38:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000901c6db5a$043ec540$446ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] back from hollidays Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:38:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.164.110.68] at Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:38:11 +0200 X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many rep=45% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:50:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450EF89C.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 682564d8-ba33-4177-9cd6-18c7af1a1615 Status: RO Hi De, Thanks for the correction of my error. I have changed it. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 15:58:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IJwnkr005282 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:58:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8IJwigZ001775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:58:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IJwCYo023215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IJwACu093735; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:58:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.246]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8IJw5m7093549 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:58:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 9808 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Sep 2006 19:57:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Ohv6Zn/ZtnQtJq934NN/l4sO1rqWVnjPOGF1dRBCt3zhCB0rATJoPr/FQZhDhOOZkyiIn1btE3RHItv5/AnSGNL4qeB9wcfRHb8QzfOqboz2f2POwp7y83KtTM2OkgsUmwRc4vhefwBptTQoIS/tmdL+bwQhu9O0k0Tc6Jp8s3I= ; Message-ID: <20060918195759.9806.qmail@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [148.107.3.20] by web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:57:59 PDT Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 12:57:59 -0700 (PDT) From: MaggiRos Subject: re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%&#^ growing pile of patterns To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450EFA75.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 69880cbc-f922-4be2-abbf-a00574acbc50 Status: RO Jeeze you guys make me SOOOOOOO happy that all my costuming interest is in a very limited range of time and place. I have a rather small, rather crowded 2-bedroom apartment shared with hubby and 2 cats, and hardly enough room to sew, never mind stock thousands of books and hundreds of patterns. No attic, no garage, no cellar. My patterns are in ziplocks stored in 3, countem, 3 rectangular baskets. That includes comercial patterns (except for Margo's which are in binders) and the manila envelopes marked Collars & Cuffs, Bodyces & Corsets, Sleeves and Sleeve Parts, etc. Every now and then I go through those envelopes and actually throw things away! Bodices, Doublets, Shifts & Shirts, and such are also marked with who they were used for, date, and where appropriate, weight. Happily, I also no longer take commissions, so it's not much of a hardship. :-) MaggiRos --- Cin wrote: > I use 2 legal size file cabinets. All patterns, > whether designed for > me or for someone else, are in the cabinet, as are > the few commercial > ones. The patterns are sorted by historical date of > the target > garment. This works very well for me as I have > little interest in > sewing anything after WWII or so. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 16:03:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IK34uN005394 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:03:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8IK2r7m022612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:03:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IK2GFc024323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:02:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IK2CwJ098554; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:02:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IF945A060571 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:09:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A9BC13C2FB for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:09:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:09:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060918112317.039d6c90@suziclarke.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450EFB74.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: f31c079f-8843-45e4-85d4-a17621f67876 Status: RO note that the url continues in black. this means that the url was to long. usually one needs to cut and paste to get it to work. Try this http://tinyurl.com/gjenv but from the sound of things the hat probably won't work for what you want. De -----Original Message----- >http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOnezoom.asp?dep=11&zoomFlag=0&vie w >mode=1&item=50%2E145%2E28 I can't make the last one work - my fault I suspect. I love the "something simple you have there - and I could do that - much lighter weight and easier for the event. Thank you. Also the one you suggest taking with a grain of salt - I have seen a similar one else where, and could do that too as I have the shape ready made. I do have a very low hairline though, and I think I'll go for the simple veil. Thanks again. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 16:14:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IKERuC005722 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:14:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8IKEOcJ010836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:14:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IKDtGi026282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:13:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IKDsJ8013121; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:13:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8IKDmKt012858 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:13:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 18 Sep 2006 21:13:33 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAOGaDkWBToodAQECBwQKBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:2783 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GPPUi-0000Xh-9G for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:13:32 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060918211108.039eddb0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:13:30 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060918112317.039d6c90@suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.6 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:14:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450EFE20.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 64a38e4f-e01b-4a10-a176-c6f1c1dbd021 Status: RO At 16:09 18/09/2006, you wrote: >note that the url continues in black. this means that the url was to long. >usually one needs to cut and paste to get it to work. >Try this >http://tinyurl.com/gjenv >but from the sound of things the hat probably won't work for what you want. >De > >-----Original Message----- > >http://www.metmuseum.org/Works_of_Art/viewOnezoom.asp?dep=11&zoomFlag=0&vie >w > >mode=1&item=50%2E145%2E28 > >I can't make the last one work - my fault I suspect. I love the >"something simple you have there - and I could do that - much lighter >weight and easier for the event. Thank you. Also the one you suggest >taking with a grain of salt - I have seen a similar one else where, >and could do that too as I have the shape ready made. I do have a >very low hairline though, and I think I'll go for the simple veil. >Thanks again. Thanks for the URL. I did try cutting and pasting, several times, but still couldn't get it to work, so now I can see it, I agree with you, it won't work for this time. I still love the simple veil with dangly bits (technical term) and plan on wearing that I think, as I already have a second veil that only needs dangly bits sewing on. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 21:06:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J16mo7013313 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:06:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8J16iO2006480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:06:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J13Uqs064665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J13ObB040786; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:03:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.239]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J13MRI040746 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:03:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s13so4131860wxc for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:03:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=N4A3aVKxjsa1vBbjPV3aQ3Wz2wgr0mkZzXEMDmTzEIRYgPtZLhKzirwzHDVzK/erTOuxH/1R5NGSaMUknqIDi+j5/MtQwXfNR7tNA65GvTymF0/l0j/VM6szwlFmnHbXtuugh3uhjNLZS4kjdlhzSzIAJ8AVCYmw/W8SEBWgTZI= Received: by 10.70.29.7 with SMTP id c7mr21306191wxc; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.3 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac190609181803u2310d44dnec089c2e8ebfeff2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:03:22 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:06:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 450F42A4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: d27c367c-1c87-4519-8362-ef84ba07e9bd Status: RO I have a question about the size/shape of doublet tabs/"skirts" on men's doublets ca. 1600-1610. Some background: I'm making a linen canvas doublet for rapier fencing, based loosely on the one in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620" (page 82). Apart from the fabric, it also has a pointed front (because I'm made that way - my navel lies below my natural waistline) and corded body for extra impact protection. Here are some pictures of my progress thus far. The tabs are basted on, and though it's not visible there's a linen canvas lacing strip beneath: Front: http://pics.livejournal.com/anotheranon/pic/00059kk8 Back: http://pics.livejournal.com/anotheranon/pic/00058xfp My question is primarily decorative. According to the dimensions given in Arnold and my "eyeballing", it seems like each of the tabs should be roughly the size of my hand, give or take a 1/2" or so, which these are. I opted not to pad them with the cotton batting I used elsewhere because I thought it would add bulk without much stiffness. However, the tabs seem to droop - I've likened them to a row of floppy dogs ears! And the large size while not unflattering when I'm wearing it doesn't look "right" to me; I think I might be comparing it in my mind to the smaller tabs found on women's stays of the same period. Can someone tell me - are the tabs the right size/shape/bulk, or am I just being unduly influenced by my experience of doing mostly women's 16th century? Thanks in advance, Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 21:26:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J1QBF0013805 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:26:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8J1Q85s013638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J1Mcm4067014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J1MZ4G064891; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:22:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.po.exetel.com.au (pecan-mail.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J1MTtQ064703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:22:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendaslists@exemail.com.au) Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.88.249] helo=mycomputer) by smtp.po.exetel.com.au with smtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GPUJf-000513-SD for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:22:28 +1000 Message-ID: <032101c6db8a$13876d10$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7d21ac190609181803u2310d44dnec089c2e8ebfeff2@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:22:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:26:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 450F4730.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: cb84c6e9-b218-4e66-807d-d32f6eb84b2f Status: RO I also think they do look just a little limp. I always interline my 1640s tabs with medium weight tent canvas, which gives them that extra bit of stiffness. I wouldn't try using cotton batting - a bit too much. These tabs have a lot of movement in them when being worn, and I think a heavy batting lining would leave the tabs sticking out too far after bending down. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Thurman" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet >I have a question about the size/shape of doublet tabs/"skirts" on > men's doublets ca. 1600-1610. > > Some background: I'm making a linen canvas doublet for rapier fencing, > based loosely on the one in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion > 1560-1620" (page 82). Apart from the fabric, it also has a pointed > front (because I'm made that way - my navel lies below my natural > waistline) and corded body for extra impact protection. > > Here are some pictures of my progress thus far. The tabs are basted > on, and though it's not visible there's a linen canvas lacing strip > beneath: > > Front: http://pics.livejournal.com/anotheranon/pic/00059kk8 > > Back: http://pics.livejournal.com/anotheranon/pic/00058xfp > > My question is primarily decorative. According to the dimensions given > in Arnold and my "eyeballing", it seems like each of the tabs should > be roughly the size of my hand, give or take a 1/2" or so, which these > are. I opted not to pad them with the cotton batting I used elsewhere > because I thought it would add bulk without much stiffness. > > However, the tabs seem to droop - I've likened them to a row of floppy > dogs ears! And the large size while not unflattering when I'm wearing > it doesn't look "right" to me; I think I might be comparing it in my > mind to the smaller tabs found on women's stays of the same period. > > Can someone tell me - are the tabs the right size/shape/bulk, or am I > just being unduly influenced by my experience of doing mostly women's > 16th century? > > Thanks in advance, > > Allison T. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 21:31:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J1Vpa7013998 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:31:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8J1VlPW003273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:31:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J1NuWN067851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:23:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J1Nh2S066794; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.228]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J1Ndgk066650 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:23:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i4so45974wra for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:23:39 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=sFA7RbNiZR+KvJejeCJd25xH65Klr6t6avgfIxiNcFn57GsuJoXZ/1YzrHDU/9UMQDoWaMf5ByUSC4RWuFOP2BGB7zXagMqYyvvZHOvgZmsUkq+W0FjEAD+bZrZYlVidE6R2r1LrSublSDtdX05O43ZFjfupL5eK/qDBHks9odg= Received: by 10.90.54.20 with SMTP id c20mr5078149aga; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.33.1 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <870801590609181823x661b2958n499ceba64544919f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:23:35 -0500 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet In-Reply-To: <7d21ac190609181803u2310d44dnec089c2e8ebfeff2@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7d21ac190609181803u2310d44dnec089c2e8ebfeff2@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:31:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450F4883.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 38712015-ae2a-4067-8e7f-aba87fdaa0ec Status: RO > However, the tabs seem to droop - I've likened them to a row of floppy > dogs ears! And the large size while not unflattering when I'm wearing > it doesn't look "right" to me; I think I might be comparing it in my > mind to the smaller tabs found on women's stays of the same period. > > Can someone tell me - are the tabs the right size/shape/bulk, or am I > just being unduly influenced by my experience of doing mostly women's > 16th century? > > Thanks in advance, > > Allison T. Allison, I'd ay they look fine. I know that if you've hips, or something poofy that makes the tabs flair out, they work to make your waist look smaller than it is. I'd wonder though why you chose to add cotton batting to your doublet? I have done rapier fencing in linen doublets and shirts, without addition padding and was quite well protected. It would seem to me that the padding would add to overheating, which could hurt you more than a small bruise or two. Well, that's my opinion, ymmv, Alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 22:50:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J2odvP016873 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:50:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8J2oZ6m020220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:50:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J2kobT078813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:46:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J2kiEn075478; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:46:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4d.socket.net [216.106.88.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J2kd1V075374 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:46:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 926973699F for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:46:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] back from hollidays Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:46:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <000901c6db5a$043ec540$446ea450@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:50:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at demeter with ID 450F5AFB.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: d8dc9cc3-e1cd-43a0-aeb0-3796c7a647f3 Status: RO Your welcome. :) De -----Original Message----- Hi De, Thanks for the correction of my error. I have changed it. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 18 23:23:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J3N1t8019136 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:23:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8J3Mvod023080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J3Ksua083482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:20:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J3Kp4m019640; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:20:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J3KgsJ019426 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:20:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A09B739002C8; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:14:35 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:20:39 -0700 Message-ID: <009301c6db9a$953da710$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:23:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 450F6292.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 4c182d18-26fc-44f1-9f78-2917fce66183 Status: RO How authentic does it have to be? if only quasi- authentic, make a tube, lightly stuffed, with a wire inside (for shaping). Sew ends together and tack on a short or tapered (short in front, longer in back) veil. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:15 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of this month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, only in a plain fabric. I have a beautiful "horned" headdress which fits perfectly, and looks good, again based on the painting, but is a pain in the b*tt to eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's a part of the meal, and gets in my way. http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could wear instead? A coif is unsuitable as I will be with other people, not in a domestic situation. My hair is very short and needs concealing. Bear in mind please I have two costumes for other people to make in that two weeks, and therefor have zero time to fiddle and make anything elaborate for myself. Oh, and hennins of any shape and size are not me! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 19 05:06:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J96QeR017412 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:06:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8J96MhG020730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:06:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J934ah023149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:03:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J92wAA053699; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:02:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J92sU9053527 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:02:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep40.mail.dk ([195.41.46.140]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20060919090246.ZOZG26666.fep31.mail.dk@fep40.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:02:46 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.116]) by fep40.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20060919090246.HXWX4452.fep40.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:02:46 +0200 Message-ID: <000901c6dbca$6789aaf0$74e73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7d21ac190609181803u2310d44dnec089c2e8ebfeff2@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:02:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep40.mail.dk from [80.63.231.116] at Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:02:39 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:06:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at demeter with ID 450FB30E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 40bdb391-1280-41a6-b4db-9c3bd13e3ee4 Status: RO Hi. I think the size of the tabs looks fine. The reason why your tabs hangs like dogs ears, is because they need the support from the trunk hosen. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Thurman" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:03 AM Subject: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet >I have a question about the size/shape of doublet tabs/"skirts" on > men's doublets ca. 1600-1610. > > Some background: I'm making a linen canvas doublet for rapier fencing, > based loosely on the one in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion > 1560-1620" (page 82). Apart from the fabric, it also has a pointed > front (because I'm made that way - my navel lies below my natural > waistline) and corded body for extra impact protection. > > Here are some pictures of my progress thus far. The tabs are basted > on, and though it's not visible there's a linen canvas lacing strip > beneath: > > Front: http://pics.livejournal.com/anotheranon/pic/00059kk8 > > Back: http://pics.livejournal.com/anotheranon/pic/00058xfp > > My question is primarily decorative. According to the dimensions given > in Arnold and my "eyeballing", it seems like each of the tabs should > be roughly the size of my hand, give or take a 1/2" or so, which these > are. I opted not to pad them with the cotton batting I used elsewhere > because I thought it would add bulk without much stiffness. > > However, the tabs seem to droop - I've likened them to a row of floppy > dogs ears! And the large size while not unflattering when I'm wearing > it doesn't look "right" to me; I think I might be comparing it in my > mind to the smaller tabs found on women's stays of the same period. > > Can someone tell me - are the tabs the right size/shape/bulk, or am I > just being unduly influenced by my experience of doing mostly women's > 16th century? > > Thanks in advance, > > Allison T. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 19 06:17:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from demeter.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JAHYS5030954 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:17:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by demeter.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8JAHVDH015511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:17:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JAEOaQ030310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:14:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JAELwB046681; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:14:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s41.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s41.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JAEHX3046465 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:14:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.92]) by bay0-omc1-s41.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:14:12 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:14:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 207.46.10.123 by by121fd.bay121.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:14:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.166.214.5] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <7d21ac190609181803u2310d44dnec089c2e8ebfeff2@mail.gmail.com> From: "Kelly Grant" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:14:09 -0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Sep 2006 10:14:12.0206 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A5A60E0:01C6DBD4] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (demeter.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:17:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at demeter with ID 450FC3BB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 38470f37-451e-4d29-b28e-b61c8905c5af Status: RO The tabs look great to me, in fact the whole doublet does. I think that when you are fully dressed, your bottom half garment will create the look you are after in the tabs. They just need that stuff underneath. Will you be wearing petticoats or venetians? Kelly "Bravery is something you can experience on the spur of the moment, faced with danger. To have courage, you must think about the dangers in advance, then weigh the risks, and then do what you have to do, despite your fears" Caius Merlyn Britannicus >From: "A. Thurman" >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: h-costume@mail.indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet >Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:03:22 -0400 > >I have a question about the size/shape of doublet tabs/"skirts" on >men's doublets ca. 1600-1610. > >Some background: I'm making a linen canvas doublet for rapier fencing, >based loosely on the one in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion >1560-1620" (page 82). Apart from the fabric, it also has a pointed >front (because I'm made that way - my navel lies below my natural >waistline) and corded body for extra impact protection. > >Here are some pictures of my progress thus far. The tabs are basted >on, and though it's not visible there's a linen canvas lacing strip >beneath: > >Front: http://pics.livejournal.com/anotheranon/pic/00059kk8 > >Back: http://pics.livejournal.com/anotheranon/pic/00058xfp > >My question is primarily decorative. According to the dimensions given >in Arnold and my "eyeballing", it seems like each of the tabs should >be roughly the size of my hand, give or take a 1/2" or so, which these >are. I opted not to pad them with the cotton batting I used elsewhere >because I thought it would add bulk without much stiffness. > >However, the tabs seem to droop - I've likened them to a row of floppy >dogs ears! And the large size while not unflattering when I'm wearing >it doesn't look "right" to me; I think I might be comparing it in my >mind to the smaller tabs found on women's stays of the same period. > >Can someone tell me - are the tabs the right size/shape/bulk, or am I >just being unduly influenced by my experience of doing mostly women's >16th century? > >Thanks in advance, > >Allison T. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 19 06:43:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JAh7QA006644 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:43:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8JAh4WB022412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:43:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JAeH2i033345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:40:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JAeGNo082618; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:40:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.clifford.wightman.ca [216.110.227.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JAe7V4082412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 04:40:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 90A5AD46A4; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5565FD4189 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:40:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:40:04 -0400 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <002a01c6dbd7$f7d0ddb0$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.clifford X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, HTML_60_70=0.027,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] An Era Ends X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:43:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 450FC9B8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: c905d676-f9d1-4a7f-8b46-70eb0b172ce6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8JAh7QA006644 Status: RO It is with the deepest regret we've decided to close out our historical pattern line. With the growth of The Big Three's (Simplicity, Butterick, McCall's) historical patterns, it has become increasingly difficult to compete with these very large marketing machines. Who can argue with a $0.99 pattern? Even if that pattern isn't historically accurate, so many people feel that if they're going to have to spend time tweaking to be assured of a good fit, better to spend $0.99 and tweak than a minimum of $20.00. So, from now until the patterns are gone, we're clearing out all in-stock historical sewing patterns, as well as a few re-enactor supplies and amusements, at an unprecedented 40% discount. The cooperage will still continue to operate on a limited basis, with Gary producing cooperage for orders in-house, and in the future for stock which will be made available through our website. The museum quality embroidery supplies will still be available, as will Lorina's artwork and the exquisite line of Porter music boxes, both large and small. In the future we hope to have other goods of interest for our customers. Life is a journey, and we fully expect the journey to be filled with interest and evolution. With regards as always Lorina and Gary Stephens Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 19 14:54:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JIsllb022721 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:54:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8JIshFf028486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:54:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JIpcSE097139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JIowUa082700; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:50:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8J8miJ0034518 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 02:48:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 19 Sep 2006 09:48:38 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAALZKD0WBToobAQECBwIMBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:1320 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GPbHR-0003mR-NP for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:48:37 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060919094305.03a0f238@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:48:35 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? In-Reply-To: <009301c6db9a$953da710$0200a8c0@bob3pc> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> <009301c6db9a$953da710$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:54:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45103CF3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 072264fc-002d-46e7-8b9a-6997678b49e4 Status: RO At 04:20 19/09/2006, you wrote: >How authentic does it have to be? if only quasi- authentic, make a tube, >lightly stuffed, with a wire inside (for shaping). Sew ends together and >tack on a short or tapered (short in front, longer in back) veil. As a professional costumer, I feel I have to be as "authentic" as possible. If a potential customer sees me wearing something which is not "correct" he or she may think I am not good at what I do. I have always done my best to wear appropriate clothes to events I go to(except for the shoes - too much expense for a one-off event!) However, I don't always use period correct fabrics, but can explain those!! Suzi >I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of >this month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, >only in a plain fabric. I have a beautiful "horned" headdress which >fits perfectly, and looks good, again based on the painting, but is a >pain in the b*tt to eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's a part of >the meal, and gets in my way. > >http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm > >Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could wear instead? A >coif is unsuitable as I will be with other people, not in a domestic >situation. My hair is very short and needs concealing. Bear in mind >please I have two costumes for other people to make in that two >weeks, and therefor have zero time to fiddle and make anything >elaborate for myself. Oh, and hennins of any shape and size are not me! > >Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 19 15:00:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JJ0aX1022881 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:00:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8JJ0WVM003061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:00:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JIvcKF098079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:57:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JIvZFC089895; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:57:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [216.148.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8JEc7VI001188 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:38:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter79.comcast.net ([204.127.197.179]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060919143802m1100bbt6de>; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:38:02 +0000 Received: from [140.142.235.230] by rmailcenter79.comcast.net; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:38:00 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] iridescent fabric/weaving (& mind over matter) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:38:00 +0000 Message-Id: <091920061438.11378.451000C8000C177A00002C7222007610640809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 11 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:00:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45103E50.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: b9bed475-2c9f-40d2-81fc-fe9b6f4eaab9 Status: RO I have got a green and black iridescent taffeta, but don't know how much of it I have. How much do you need? Gia/Elena -------------- Original message -------------- From: "michaela" > > > I had one of those neat synchronicity moments recently: I thought to > myself, > > "Huh! I bet you could make an iridescent with more than just 2 colors. > Why > > don't they?" and the next day, I picked up a fabric order that included > some > > iridescent silk taffeta, which to my surprised delight was a _3_ color > > iridescent. It looked taupe, but was actually pink and green weft on black > > warp. Very cool! > > Yep:) In fact I believe this is true irridescent fabric rather than simply > shot or two tone. > > > Anyway, the whole thing has gotten me wondering: how practical is it to > make > > 3+ color iridescents? Are they as uncommon as I think? Are there any > > weavers on here who can expound on them? > > I had seen soem mentioned on a website and then lo and behold within a few > weeks I handled some in person at a local trade type store. It was red and > green and another colour I can't remember, but I was able to pick out a > thread of each colour so it wasn't just a trick of the light. It's > > > (would commit minor mayhem for a freakin' copper/purple or copper/teal > > taffeta, or best of all, a copper/teal/purple!) > > I am just on the hunt locally for simple green and black! Screes of red and > black or rust and black or muddy grey and orange... but not green and black! > > Michaela > http://glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/448 - Release Date: 14/09/2006 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 19 21:48:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K1mioM004358 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:48:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8K1meeC020639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:48:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K1jWlD056068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:45:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K1jPvU082977; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:45:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.233]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K1jMDH082889 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h26so80296wxd for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:45:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=inPORtwksYgdOuLiyz0/C7V7vCdfIjJttPHQhDw8DrxfjqCoIe+uc8dK5h+DMqKP3mfLIQNmCFgMuRwjGZhwMbRVQwhmYWbZQ237BQtZawW2LjwajGYyBu6KFIJmnPFY6h+Pl5w5DnQ5D4KMImzaEIkS0lqHgYXMezFHxad5rn4= Received: by 10.70.59.9 with SMTP id h9mr23617212wxa; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.3 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac190609191845y2934581dq51d7e818c94d1839@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:45:21 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:48:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45109DF8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 7403a704-d016-4663-9aaa-0066f9b1ca88 Status: RO On 9/19/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:23:35 -0500 > From: "Alexandria Doyle" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > <870801590609181823x661b2958n499ceba64544919f@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > Answering several people's questions here. Alexandra asked: > > I'd wonder though why you chose to add cotton batting to your doublet? > I have done rapier fencing in linen doublets and shirts, without > addition padding and was quite well protected. It would seem to me > that the padding would add to overheating, which could hurt you more > than a small bruise or two. Well, that's my opinion, ymmv, Alex > I added the cotton batting partly as a nod to the silk floss padding described in Janet Arnold, and partly because the armseyes are so high/tight I don't think I'll be able to fit my modern underarm protector underneath. The group I fence with (mashs.org) emphasizes safety heavily so I don't want to go to the great trouble of making this thing and then not be able to fence in it! Kelly asked: > > The tabs look great to me, in fact the whole doublet does. I think that > when you are fully dressed, your bottom half garment will create the look > you are after in the tabs. They just need that stuff underneath. > > Will you be wearing petticoats or venetians? Venetians - I learned to fence in modern fencing knickers, I'd likely trip over myself if I tried to switch to skirts now :P Many of you mentioned the possibility that the bottom half of the outfit - breeches or skirt - will help hold out the tabs, but I am not so sure - venetians aren't that full up top, are they? I think I may well add a layer of canvas for more "oomph". Thank you for your answers! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 19 23:11:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K3Brda006756 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:11:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8K3BnTr008814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K3AAjl066915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:10:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K3A7Tm000144; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:10:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.224]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K1jMWa082892 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s13so70745wxc for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:45:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=inPORtwksYgdOuLiyz0/C7V7vCdfIjJttPHQhDw8DrxfjqCoIe+uc8dK5h+DMqKP3mfLIQNmCFgMuRwjGZhwMbRVQwhmYWbZQ237BQtZawW2LjwajGYyBu6KFIJmnPFY6h+Pl5w5DnQ5D4KMImzaEIkS0lqHgYXMezFHxad5rn4= Received: by 10.70.59.9 with SMTP id h9mr23617212wxa; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.78.3 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac190609191845y2934581dq51d7e818c94d1839@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:45:21 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:11:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4510B175.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 72983481-fb77-4fb1-8809-80139c3fb095 Status: RO On 9/19/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:23:35 -0500 > From: "Alexandria Doyle" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > <870801590609181823x661b2958n499ceba64544919f@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > Answering several people's questions here. Alexandra asked: > > I'd wonder though why you chose to add cotton batting to your doublet? > I have done rapier fencing in linen doublets and shirts, without > addition padding and was quite well protected. It would seem to me > that the padding would add to overheating, which could hurt you more > than a small bruise or two. Well, that's my opinion, ymmv, Alex > I added the cotton batting partly as a nod to the silk floss padding described in Janet Arnold, and partly because the armseyes are so high/tight I don't think I'll be able to fit my modern underarm protector underneath. The group I fence with (mashs.org) emphasizes safety heavily so I don't want to go to the great trouble of making this thing and then not be able to fence in it! Kelly asked: > > The tabs look great to me, in fact the whole doublet does. I think that > when you are fully dressed, your bottom half garment will create the look > you are after in the tabs. They just need that stuff underneath. > > Will you be wearing petticoats or venetians? Venetians - I learned to fence in modern fencing knickers, I'd likely trip over myself if I tried to switch to skirts now :P Many of you mentioned the possibility that the bottom half of the outfit - breeches or skirt - will help hold out the tabs, but I am not so sure - venetians aren't that full up top, are they? I think I may well add a layer of canvas for more "oomph". Thank you for your answers! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 19 23:12:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K3C4JY006762 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:12:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8K3C08V023875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:12:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K3985q066605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:09:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K392qR098339; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:09:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8K0jiFd002652 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09332 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:26:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:26:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Edward I's wardrobe account X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:12:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4510B180.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 3fcb7f94-faec-4504-8ead-9f3c125ee402 Status: RO Does anyone have either of these books? Can you tell me if they contain much useful information about textiles and clothing? Records of the Wardrobe and Household 1285-1286 edited by B. F. Byerly and C. F. Byerly Transcript of the book of the Controller of the Wardrobe and related household rolls showing Edward I's itinerary and expenditure for the year. 309p. (HMSO 1977) Records of the Wardrobe and Household 1286-1289 edited by B. F. Byerly and C. R. Byerly Full transcript of the extant records for a period when the king and his household resided almost wholly in Gascony. 678p. (HMSO 1986) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 11:29:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KFTC3t024218 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:29:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KFT8iq025311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:29:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KFP4mx052853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:25:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KFOhAP061927; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:24:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s6.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s6.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KB5St9017540 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:05:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.104]) by bay0-omc1-s6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 04:05:23 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 04:05:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 207.46.10.123 by by121fd.bay121.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:05:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.166.214.5] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <7d21ac190609191845y2934581dq51d7e818c94d1839@mail.gmail.com> From: "Kelly Grant" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Question re: men's 16th/17th c. doublet Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:05:22 -0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2006 11:05:23.0237 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB3E4550:01C6DCA4] X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:29:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45115E44.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 9ba863b0-c3d4-454c-babc-256abcc180e7 Status: RO Hi Allison, Off the top of my head, I'd say that venetians should be full at the top, I've seen them with cartridge pleats or flat pleated, but either way quite full. The knees are quite tight to the leg though. Kelly "Bravery is something you can experience on the spur of the moment, faced with danger. To have courage, you must think about the dangers in advance, then weigh the risks, and then do what you have to do, despite your fears" Caius Merlyn Britannicus >Many of you mentioned the possibility that the bottom half of the >outfit - breeches or skirt - will help hold out the tabs, but I am not >so sure - venetians aren't that full up top, are they? I think I may >well add a layer of canvas for more "oomph". > >Thank you for your answers! > >Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 11:33:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KFXO6f024310 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:33:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KFXK9I017550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:33:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KFT6J2053869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KFT3G3066661; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:29:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KCP4qt028582 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:25:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so298731pye for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:25:04 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=tJe/9C/euPqrqWkohzaQHOgRbgW4vQzsKF1f5pgpKZMQpyiNezt6EsSl2DTriz+7DU2vLszdIJmrnFyXqc+7UYSHMCEfnkvDAMLxXfHmIgfoEvrgTLV85ZD2w8fXq0u19pJhzR0q9dDfpsY9eM8roZULMuIMQTrJAUAzKH7Hap0= Received: by 10.35.27.1 with SMTP id e1mr28410621pyj; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.116.20 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc2660609200525k58853ea8m5195ebc39877f14b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:25:04 -0400 From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Edward I's wardrobe account In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:33:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45115F40.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 7ccfe007-3c60-41b4-a755-6154e5c4ca0f Status: RO Hey there... I have had these in the past... but I think I have returned them. Let me check at home tonight, they might just still be on the shelf. On 9/19/06, Robin Netherton wrote: > > Does anyone have either of these books? Can you tell me if they contain > much useful information about textiles and clothing? > > Records of the Wardrobe and Household 1285-1286 > edited by B. F. Byerly and C. F. Byerly > Transcript of the book of the Controller of the Wardrobe and > related household rolls showing Edward I's itinerary and > expenditure for the year. 309p. (HMSO 1977) > > Records of the Wardrobe and Household 1286-1289 > edited by B. F. Byerly and C. R. Byerly > Full transcript of the extant records for a period when the king and his > household resided almost wholly in Gascony. 678p. (HMSO 1986) > > --Robin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 13:42:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KHgZ7c027573 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:42:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KHgV3q003684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:42:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KHdGjb073774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:39:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KHd6Vl014155; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:39:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [63.240.77.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KHd1M7013950 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006092017385401100affome>; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:38:55 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Message-Id: <3D3A06A0-4CFC-40A7-8832-3BD055004BC0@comcast.net> From: Lauren Walker Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:42:12 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Now *there's* a costumer! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:42:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45117D87.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: fde69f41-d039-4812-9661-a9a188781959 Status: RO Hi, all, I saw this on the AP today and wanted to make sure other costumers saw it. My favorite part is "He blended in so well that security guards had difficulty finding him." > Student Joins China's Terra-Cotta Army > > - - - - - - - - - - - - > > September 20,2006 | HONG KONG -- A German art student tried to join > a Chinese dynasty's army -- but he volunteered centuries too late. > > The 26-year-old man -- identified only as "Pablo" or by his Chinese > name "Ma Lin" -- made a dusty brown suit of armor, a tunic and a > helmet, and attempted to blend in with the ancient warriors of the > terra-cotta army in the western city of Xi'an, the Hong Kong > newspapers Ming Pao Daily News and Wen Wei Po reported this week. > > The outfit matched the uniforms worn by the thousands of terra- > cotta soldiers buried in the tomb of the Emperor Qin Shihuangdi, > who ruled between 221-210 B.C., the papers said. The soldiers -- > one of China's greatest archaeological discoveries -- are displayed > in a Xi'an museum. > > Pablo entered the museum Saturday with his uniform packed in a > suitcase, the papers said. Once inside, he quickly changed into the > outfit, jumped over a barrier and joined the soldiers, who stand in > hundreds of rows. > > He blended in so well that security guards had difficulty finding > him, Ming Pao said. > > "I got to the area where he was supposed to be, looked around a bit > and didn't see Ma Lin," the paper quoted a guard as saying. "He > just looked too much like a terra-cotta warrior." > > The papers showed photos of security guards dragging Pablo out of > the excavation pit where the soldiers are displayed. > > Wen Wei Po quoted Pablo as saying he has been obsessed with the > soldiers since his childhood. He reportedly said that he only > planned to have a photo of himself taken standing near the museum's > excavation pit. > > "But when I saw the soldiers, I got too excited and just couldn't > stop myself from jumping into the pit," he was quoted as saying. > > Since he didn't damage the soldiers, Pablo was released after > getting a lecture from the security officials, the papers said. Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 14:12:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KICfos028218 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:12:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KICbXS028392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KI9Wte077973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:09:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KI9RqM051087; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:09:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KI9Hs8050774 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:09:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12531 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:50:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:50:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Now *there's* a costumer! In-Reply-To: <3D3A06A0-4CFC-40A7-8832-3BD055004BC0@comcast.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:12:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45118495.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 6e40ef33-6641-462c-8365-aa4ea379277e Status: RO On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Lauren Walker wrote: > Hi, all, > I saw this on the AP today and wanted to make sure other costumers > saw it. My favorite part is "He blended in so well that security > guards had difficulty finding him." > > > Student Joins China's Terra-Cotta Army I loved this. You can find an interesting article about the army here: http://www.goworldtravel.com/ex/aspx/articleGuid.542e0fe7-5c2c-43bc-8b5d-eaddc2c5682f/xe/print.htm And loads of cool pictures if you do a Google image search on "terra-cotta army". Gives you an idea of how someone could blend in amid 7,000 individualized life-sized statues. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 14:39:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIdB2g028892 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:39:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KId72K007550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:39:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIcDgN082268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:38:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIcAgb085705; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:38:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIc4U1085577 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:38:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep44.mail.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20060920183803.JED5370.fep34.mail.dk@fep44.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:38:03 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.184]) by fep44.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20060920183803.IXVI15124.fep44.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:38:03 +0200 Message-ID: <002f01c6dce3$f1c0f740$b8e73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:38:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep44.mail.dk from [80.63.231.184] at Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:37:52 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] yardage for a anglaise dress underskirt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:39:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45118ACB.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 465a78e5-1300-4b23-9efa-fc742a660657 Status: RO Hello, I wanted to ask you all about how many widths you would use of a taffeta fabric 140 cm. wide - to an underskirt of an anglaise dress? I want it to be rather full with a bumroll, would 3 widths be two much? I am nearly finishing the embroidery for the skirt front and have calculated 140 cm, to show in the front. Perhaps 3 widths is two much? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 14:43:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIhjmg028972 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:43:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KIhfuT004489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:43:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIeggp082603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:40:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIebXr088836; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:40:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [216.148.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIeTqn088599 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:40:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20060920184022m1100b7fuke>; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:40:23 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Message-Id: From: Lauren Walker Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:43:42 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] RE: Iridescent fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:43:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45118BDD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 427e62e9-66b8-49dd-8d4e-6f697a6e84fc Status: RO Indeed, there is a traditional silk fabric called "chameleon" that is three colors woven together. I haven't found much of it in modern stuffs -- like almost everything else, it shows up as a designer decorator fabric once in a while -- but i have entertained thoughts of starting to weave it. But this site has a daunting description of the requirements -- along with a beautiful photograph: http://www.cvmt.com/cameleonUS.htm Apparently the modern, machine-woven stuff, has two colors in the warp and a single color weft -- easiest for machine weaving -- but the "real" stuff had a monochrome warp and two weft threads, which were thrown from a double shuttle but rigorously kept side-by-side and not allowed to cross. I wish there were a magnified version of the photo so I could squint better at the weave. The main site, http://www.cvmt.com/index.htm, is in French, but many of the articles are translated into English. If my French serves me correctly, the site may be closing soon -- if you are interested in silk weaving, and especially if you can get around in French, it may be worthwhile to purchase the CD of the site -- http://www.cvmt.com/ liste_cd2.htm. They seem to be asking 15 Euros plus shipping for it. I have written to ask if the English translations are part of the CD. If you can read French, the 30 other CDs available from CVMT may also be of interest: http://www.cvmt.com/liste_cd.htm Anyway, the chameleon silk is gorgeous. Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 14:44:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIimQd029001 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:44:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KIiiXY005293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:44:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIeuUO082642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIethL089206; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KIenHd088974 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.221]) by ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20060920184043.RIRA26187.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:40:43 -0500 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.221]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20060920184042.KUXU4441.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:40:42 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060920133731.0370e930@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:40:37 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200609201800.k8KI07xB039788@net.indra.com> References: <200609201800.k8KI07xB039788@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Edward I's wardrobe account X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:44:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45118C1C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: c8bd445e-c0cc-4adb-8751-53fe1896a3ef Status: RO Robin, I have these on order. I'll call DBBC and see what's holding them up. The price was good so I ordered them in hopes.... Beth >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:26:55 -0500 (CDT) >From: Robin Netherton > >Does anyone have either of these books? Can you tell me if they contain >much useful information about textiles and clothing? > >Records of the Wardrobe and Household 1285-1286 >edited by B. F. Byerly and C. F. Byerly >Transcript of the book of the Controller of the Wardrobe and >related household rolls showing Edward I's itinerary and >expenditure for the year. 309p. (HMSO 1977) > >Records of the Wardrobe and Household 1286-1289 >edited by B. F. Byerly and C. R. Byerly >Full transcript of the extant records for a period when the king and his >household resided almost wholly in Gascony. 678p. (HMSO 1986) > >--Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 16:42:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KKgTn0031024 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:42:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KKgP9k025692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:42:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KKe3Xv099371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:40:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KKdvHf027740; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s28.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s28.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.100]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KKdr6Z027560 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:39:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.15]) by bay0-omc1-s28.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:39:48 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:39:48 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 24.222.128.141 by BAY121-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:39:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.222.128.141] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002f01c6dce3$f1c0f740$b8e73f50@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] yardage for a anglaise dress underskirt Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:39:45 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2006 20:39:48.0374 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA10D360:01C6DCF4] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4511A7B1.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 32dc21f4-4da6-4ddb-9af2-a7e731e7a2a5 Status: RO Hi Bjarne, I use 3 widths on all of my petticoats, I like the fullness. On the full hoop I made, I used four widths, with a front panel of fancy fabric, and the three widths gathered across the back. Kelly, who can't wait to see it when it's finished ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] yardage for a anglaise dress underskirt > Hello, > I wanted to ask you all about how many widths you would use of a taffeta > fabric 140 cm. wide - to an underskirt of an anglaise dress? I want it to > be rather full with a bumroll, would 3 widths be two much? > I am nearly finishing the embroidery for the skirt front and have > calculated 140 cm, to show in the front. Perhaps 3 widths is two much? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 20 17:49:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KLn8W0032074 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:49:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8KLn4jx004110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KLivCx007716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:44:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KLikaO099751; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8KLieCF099518 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:44:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 20 Sep 2006 22:44:32 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAPhSEUWBToolAgIHBAoHBh0 Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:4576 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GQ9rs-000Kgf-QK for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:44:32 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060920224136.03a062c0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:44:31 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] yardage for a anglaise dress underskirt In-Reply-To: References: <002f01c6dce3$f1c0f740$b8e73f50@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:49:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4511B750.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-UUID: 8f60c656-4c40-40d0-8943-383a4df338a5 Status: RO At 21:39 20/09/2006, you wrote: >Hi Bjarne, >I use 3 widths on all of my petticoats, I like the fullness. On the >full hoop I made, I used four widths, with a front panel of fancy >fabric, and the three widths gathered across the back. > >Kelly, who can't wait to see it when it's finished > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:38 PM >Subject: [h-cost] yardage for a anglaise dress underskirt > > >>Hello, >>I wanted to ask you all about how many widths you would use of a >>taffeta fabric 140 cm. wide - to an underskirt of an anglaise >>dress? I want it to be rather full with a bumroll, would 3 widths be two much? >>I am nearly finishing the embroidery for the skirt front and have >>calculated 140 cm, to show in the front. Perhaps 3 widths is two much? I used to use 4 yards, when fabric was 36" wide, therefor 4 widths. However, I sometimes find two widths of 140 cm can be enough. I think 3 widths would be too much. However, I think I would use two and a half for your new dress. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 21 17:11:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8LLBlSN029569 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:11:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8LLBh0H011477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:11:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8LL8gh9075438 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:08:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8LL8W6Q072976; Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:08:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8LL8SCI072831 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:08:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0954.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.83.187]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789E5BE812 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:08:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4512FF53.3040103@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:08:35 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] yardage for a anglaise dress underskirt References: <002f01c6dce3$f1c0f740$b8e73f50@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002f01c6dce3$f1c0f740$b8e73f50@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4513000F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:11:47 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 2b7dede2-bc39-4761-8426-a3433df74b68 Status: RO I probably would use 2. Both of the underskirts I made are with 2 withs and they look well I think. Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hello, > I wanted to ask you all about how many widths you would use of a > taffeta fabric 140 cm. wide - to an underskirt of an anglaise dress? I > want it to be rather full with a bumroll, would 3 widths be two much? > I am nearly finishing the embroidery for the skirt front and have > calculated 140 cm, to show in the front. Perhaps 3 widths is two much? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 04:04:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8M84YYI006163 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:04:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8M84UMR014435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:04:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8M82c8q065780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 02:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8M82X56040121; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 02:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8M82TYf040002 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 02:02:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.10793903; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:02:02 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k8M81wE28242.; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:02:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:01:57 +0100 Message-Id: <4513A67B02000014000C0FEB@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:01:47 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] TV costume rant X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4513990E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:04:34 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 8597c22c-15cd-468d-9026-54eb65949279 Status: RO Whose idea was it, I wonder, to dress characters from ancient history in TV programmes in clothes made from what look like old flannelette sheets? I watched the new series on Ancient Rome last night, and even the Emperor wore tunics made from rough fabric with huge stitches round the neckline. I've seen similar garments in other drama-documentaries. Surely the Romans were capable of weaving fine linen? PS What's the matter with the list? It's seemed very quiet lately, and I've received several posts replying to questions but not seen the original question. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 11:34:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MFY2tV019689 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:34:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8MFXuI6032555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:34:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MFVaHW024739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:31:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MFVTdJ002276; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:31:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MFVMQL002077 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:31:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8C51A765D for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:31:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451401D8.4090600@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:31:36 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] TV costume rant References: <4513A67B02000014000C0FEB@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4513A67B02000014000C0FEB@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45140264.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:34:02 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 29d9d90f-f903-438e-941e-42347b6d3bf1 Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > Whose idea was it, I wonder, to dress characters from ancient history in > TV programmes in clothes made from what look like old flannelette > sheets? It does make you wonder, doesn't it. I find, a lot of the time, the TV screen isn't worth looking at, and I'll listen to the program while sewing. > PS What's the matter with the list? It's seemed very quiet lately, All my lists have been quiet this month. I guess folks are just busy. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 12:00:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MG0FI6020379 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:00:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8MG0BY7017005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:00:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MFuhN5030666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:56:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MFuRK4028739; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fed1rmmtao01.cox.net (fed1rmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.241.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MFruqb026545 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:54:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gueniveres-chest@cox.net) Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060922155325.DXLG6077.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:53:25 -0400 Received: from Kre8tive ([68.111.148.149]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id RTtQ1V00R3DeCVw0000000 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:53:24 -0400 From: "Jennifer Jones" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] TV costume rant Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:53:23 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <451401D8.4090600@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Thread-Index: AcbeXGY4jEiAykMmQLirGp6t/P3IwAAAWvbQ X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4514088C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:00:15 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 561b6561-e8a7-4402-8457-e4ccc31c615b Status: RO Although, for the most part, the idea that television has not a clue to the correct portrayal of historical costume (nor do they care)in some instances it is not their fault - rather the limited budget the independent producers have to work with. Not having the money to spend on someone with the knowledge to get it right, nor on the correct materials to see it done properly will affect our viewing pleasure. However the mass populous does not know the difference. But, if such programs grabs just one person's imagination so that that person desires to research more - then a possible goal has been met. Guenivere (she's lurking everywhere) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 12:09:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MG9Rmf020616 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:09:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8MG9NqL022481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MG5oxV032253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:05:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MG5jTF038640; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:05:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MG5YGw038451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:05:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8MG5XGt062772 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:05:33 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:05:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <32689.65.117.156.5.1158941133.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: References: <451401D8.4090600@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:05:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] TV costume rant From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.1, clamav-milter version 0.88.1 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=7.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45140AB3.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:09:27 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: a92f3294-1d0b-468d-9d3d-8dd7849778ec Status: RO Or ... You have what I ran into when I had to save a play from portraying the wrong message with knee bearing men in the Scottish Play. The costumer they hired wanted to make a statement that was all their own. They were right and everyone was wrong. Yeah, well spent (lost) money there. Sigh. Chiara On Fri, September 22, 2006 10:53 am, Jennifer Jones said: > Although, for the most part, the idea that television has not a clue > to the > correct portrayal of historical costume (nor do they care)in some > instances > it is not their fault - rather the limited budget the independent > producers > have to work with. Not having the money to spend on someone with > the > knowledge to get it right, nor on the correct materials to see it > done > properly will affect our viewing pleasure. However the mass > populous does > not know the difference. But, if such programs grabs just one > person's > imagination so that that person desires to research more - then a > possible > goal has been met. > > Guenivere > (she's lurking everywhere) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 14:34:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MIYr5V024980 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:34:53 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8MIYntu000601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:34:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MIYI8k057059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MIY9aa002199; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:34:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MIY6qC001964 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:34:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTP id <0J60009I3BJNHW30@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.196] (Forwarded-For: [10.240.3.196]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:33:23 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:33:23 +0000 (GMT) From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] TV costume rant In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006) Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <451401D8.4090600@reddawn.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45142CC9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:34:53 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: ca7ac7e2-e73e-4a97-8006-cbacadc25682 Status: RO Also, it is easier to rent from 'Ye Olde Costume Rental Shoppe' then to make costumes from scratch. Katheryne adding her 2 sestercii ----- Original Message ----- From: Jennifer Jones > Although, for the most part, the idea that television has not a > clue to the correct portrayal of historical costume (nor do they care)in > some instances it is not their fault - rather the limited budget the > independent producers have to work with. Not having the money to spend on someone > with the knowledge to get it right, nor on the correct materials to see > it done properly will affect our viewing pleasure. However the mass > populous does not know the difference. But, if such programs grabs just one > person's imagination so that that person desires to research more > - then a possible goal has been met. > > Guenivere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 15:15:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MJFnhv026548 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:15:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8MJFiJF003127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:15:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MJFCOM063150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:15:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MJF8vn047519; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MJEw5w047198 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:15:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep40.mail.dk ([195.41.46.140]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20060922191452.DFWB5370.fep34.mail.dk@fep40.mail.dk> for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:14:52 +0200 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.83]) by fep40.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20060922191452.KJPF4452.fep40.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:14:52 +0200 Message-ID: <002401c6de7b$730f6410$5314a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:15:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep40.mail.dk from [80.161.20.83] at Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:14:44 +0200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] yardage for anglaise dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45143660.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:15:49 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: e82aed21-299b-4b17-bb3a-ed331c68f2c4 Status: RO Hello, Thanks for your advises with my question. Ill follow it and i wil use 2 widths + 50 cm wich gives 3,30 m. I need to embroider 3 more swags to fill out the whole width of the fabric, i think this will be sufficient for the underskirt. Its going to be a buisy winter season for me, i also must make 1 more danish court dress in red, similar to the grey i made and i have promised to embroider a waistcoat two. I keep on saying "its the last one" every time i finish something, but when some time goes, i long to make something again. Guess i have to go on, until i cant do it anymore because of illnes or old age :-) I dont know if you had this issue up when i was on holliday, but did you disguss the new Marie Antoinette movie? I think the costumes are rather good, of what i have seen so far, its going to open here in Denmark in november. Only complaint i have is the wedding and coronation dresses, wich should have off the shoulder cut, but dont have............... Bjarne Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 18:00:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MM0wux031270 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:00:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8MM0sgu005665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:00:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MM055J093352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:00:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MLxYQR034772; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:59:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MLxLoU034351 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:59:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.2e2.da90d99 (30739) for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <2e2.da90d99.3245b6aa@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:59:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] TV costume rant To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45145D16.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:00:58 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c385ab31-0ae5-4df9-a4ea-ef9e3c9f8da4 Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/2006 12:07:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, chiara@io.com writes: > Although, for the most part, the idea that television has not a clue > >to the > >correct portrayal of historical costume ******************** Well, the BBC does very well all the time. Then we have American TV. God! Remember "North & South"? HAHAHAHA! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 18:20:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MMKB04031785 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:20:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8MMK7AG014708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:20:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MMJQog099044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:19:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MMJMVU057972; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MMJHWM057760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:19:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8MMJBpn099328 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:19:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:19:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <44972.65.117.156.5.1158963552.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <2e2.da90d99.3245b6aa@aol.com> References: <2e2.da90d99.3245b6aa@aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:19:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] TV costume rant From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.1, clamav-milter version 0.88.1 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=7.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45146197.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 18:20:11 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: ffaf674e-210d-4181-a73f-a2af654f9c88 Status: RO Hmmm ... I did not write that. On Fri, September 22, 2006 4:59 pm, AlbertCat@aol.com said: > In a message dated 9/22/2006 12:07:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, > chiara@io.com > writes: > >> Although, for the most part, the idea that television has not a >> clue >> >to the >> >correct portrayal of historical costume > > ******************** > > > Well, the BBC does very well all the time. > > Then we have American TV. God! Remember "North & South"? HAHAHAHA! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 19:32:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MNWoTK001164 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:32:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8MNWkbw008418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:32:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MNWGgW007973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:32:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8MNWBqA042032; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:32:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8MKMkgY020906 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 14:22:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail41.nyc.untd.com (webmail41.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.181]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABCTJTR7AZHVSB2 for (sender ); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:22:21 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn71Zuo5VehOjuJ9Gll9T39TjmftsjcyY0WQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail41.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L2V95YK6; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:22:15 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail41.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:22:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:22:08 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20060922.132215.22531.508448@webmail41.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:3:1388621075 X-MAIL-INFO: 0cbc9d959df5ada8ada995dcd1ddddd845818d01e13d35cde19d88a5ed35593db99985956975a92828 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.181|webmail41.nyc.untd.com|webmail41.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Web Site Update X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4514729E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:32:50 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: bccd3c34-b8c3-46f4-9564-731f8863764d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8MNWoTK001164 Status: RO I have just done a a massive update to my web site.....actually, I cracked the whip over my poor, abused webmaster and HE did a massive update of the site for me. http://seamstrix.com/index.html The new items are under: Elizabethan Costumes Red Surcoat American Civil War Costumes Happy viewing! Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 22 21:16:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8N1GWDY003834 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:16:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8N1GSdH021919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:16:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8N1FpJN021283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:15:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8N1Fkhv069347; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:15:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (lightening.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8N1FfER069206 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2006 19:15:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail4.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.171]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E283758A7 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:15:37 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-121-133.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-121-133.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.121.133]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:15:37 +1000 Message-ID: <1158974137.45148ab9bac89@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:15:37 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] TV costume rant References: <4513A67B02000014000C0FEB@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> <451401D8.4090600@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <451401D8.4090600@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45148AEC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:16:31 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0d746f22-e961-4c8e-8242-133dccb72b0e Status: RO (At the risk of looking like I am siding with the other side...) As much as we'd all love to see accurate costuming on TV, film or the stage, most times it just ain't gonna happen. Costumers are restricted by budget, availability of materials, and time. Unless making a documentary on textiles or clothing, they are also restricted by the dramatic needs of the piece. The costumer's job is to add to the emotional atmosphere of the piece while melding with the production design, lighting and cinematography, make up, and a fountain of other aspects. For stage work, it is even more complex if quick-changes are needed. All that said, I still wince every time I see the hook and eye tape in Gladiator, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 05:30:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8N9UJkM027167 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 05:30:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8N9UGxw003691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 05:30:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8N9R1FW064743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 03:27:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8N9Qtbt049383; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 03:26:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8N9Qpih049201 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 03:26:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c6b.9f483d (40520) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 05:26:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 05:26:40 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] TV costume rant To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4514FEA8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 05:30:19 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 3624971a-a2c1-40ad-84ea-9dbd6c0528d2 Status: RO That would be the costume designers who go to college and learn pseudo costume history as part of their course, and the directors who don't learn any of it, and who don't really care. Had that argument with tv people (cos you know everybody in medieval times wore black or brown!! And there's no way they'd be able to do anything better than we can!) And if the "fashion history" I was "taught" at uni. was the average, then there's not much hope of it getting better any time soon! Debbie In a message dated 9/23/06 12:32:37 AM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:01:47 +0100 > From: "Kate M Bunting" > Subject: [h-cost] TV costume rant > To: > Message-ID: > <4513A67B02000014000C0FEB@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Whose idea was it, I wonder, to dress characters from ancient history in > TV programmes in clothes made from what look like old flannelette > sheets? I watched the new series on Ancient Rome last night, and even > the Emperor wore tunics made from rough fabric with huge stitches round > the neckline. I've seen similar garments in other drama-documentaries. > Surely the Romans were capable of weaving fine linen? > > PS What's the matter with the list? It's seemed very quiet lately, and > I've received several posts replying to questions but not seen the > original question. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 09:24:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NDOTTC015533 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:24:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NDOPBe018652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NDNkrE097204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:23:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NDNba9063293; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:23:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NDNVb6063176 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:23:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.126.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.126] helo=faucet.net) by pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GR7Te-0001qT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:23:31 -0400 Message-ID: <4515430F.1000302@faucet.net> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:22:07 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Web Site Update References: <20060922.132215.22531.508448@webmail41.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45153589.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:24:29 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: a565b467-ad6c-4cc3-8fce-750c14885c9d Status: RO Nice stuff, Karen! Elizabethans rule! Thanks for sharing, Melanie Schuessler penhalion@juno.com wrote: > I have just done a a massive update to my web site.....actually, I cracked the whip over my poor, abused webmaster and HE did a massive update of the site for me. > http://seamstrix.com/index.html > The new items are under: > Elizabethan Costumes > Red Surcoat > American Civil War Costumes > > Happy viewing! > > Karen > Seamstrix > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 10:31:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEVBZf016940 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:31:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NEV7lM000899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEURRV004873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:30:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEULBx051005; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:wQCJD4Y1olT1tUjU5eCAJ91M3zW+9dBM@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEUIgk050925 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:30:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.52] (206-124-5-52.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.52]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8NENYh03860 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:23:35 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:30:20 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4515452B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:31:11 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 1d4ab4a8-b4e5-44e4-9b40-57dbc1bd34f8 Status: RO Since we always rant so much about how bad Hollywood does historical costumes in movies, here's a question that ought to get a lot of replies. I am teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries and thought it would be fun to show some clips of costumes from movies, and not just good examples but some really bad ones. For instance, I happened to see on tv a bit of an old movie from the 1950s a couple weeks ago called "Princess of the Nile" which took place in the Middle East and the costumes were so bad they were really laughable. The women were wearing high spiked heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you all can name some other old movies with really anachronistic or just plain wrong historical costumes. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 10:55:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEtXhD017478 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:55:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NEtSDa027502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:55:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEsoTN007960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEsmCR082547; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:54:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEsdGX082426 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:54:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.126.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.126] helo=faucet.net) by pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GR8tq-0005s1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:54:38 -0400 Message-ID: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:53:14 -0500 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45154AE0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:55:33 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 570bbaab-a9c5-41e4-8b3a-3d7db624d720 Status: RO Scaramouche (the one made in 1952) has always been one of my favorites. It's set in the 18th century, but the women all have the 50s lift-and-separate bullet bras underneath their gowns. I'm sure there are many other costume gaffes as well, but that's the most noticeable one. It's a charming movie, though--good swordfight at the end. Melanie Schuessler Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > Since we always rant so much about how bad Hollywood does historical > costumes in movies, here's a question that ought to get a lot of > replies. I am teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries > and thought it would be fun to show some clips of costumes from movies, > and not just good examples but some really bad ones. For instance, I > happened to see on tv a bit of an old movie from the 1950s a couple > weeks ago called "Princess of the Nile" which took place in the Middle > East and the costumes were so bad they were really laughable. The women > were wearing high spiked heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you > all can name some other old movies with really anachronistic or just > plain wrong historical costumes. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 11:08:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NF80dc017700 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:08:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NF7rqE001267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:07:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NF7O3R009454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:07:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NF7Nrt097846; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:07:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NF7GAH097583 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:07:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tgilbert737@adelphia.net) Received: from VAIO ([68.71.173.61]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20060923150706.PBWL14728.mta10.adelphia.net@VAIO> for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:07:06 -0400 Message-ID: <005d01c6df21$ebbf85b0$3dad4744@VAIO> From: "Gilbert" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] TV costume rant Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:06:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45154DC9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:08:00 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 2d771832-2500-4bfd-a406-7c7bffe356dc Status: RO I can think of one program, or a series of programs, that may have gotten it right. I'm thinking of Deadwood, the series on HBO following the history of the Dakota Territory mining camp, Deadwood, set in 1879 and on. What impressed me was the extensive research that was done on the show that is reflected in the sets and, to my untrained eye, the costumes. What is everyone else's opinion of this show? Marjorie Marjorie Gilbert author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England www.marjoriegilbert.net Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 11:10:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFAo3A017765 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:10:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NFAjFj002598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:10:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFA6Ho009891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:10:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFA5a7000793; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:10:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFA1Lb000653 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:10:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.185] (pm5-185.eos.net [205.133.149.185]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k8NF9vHK006248 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:09:57 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:53:34 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200609222331.k8MNV8aQ040703@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: tv costumes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45154E75.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:10:50 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: ae25b5ac-6ead-46c2-9b9d-76a9d5b83ba4 Status: RO Yesterday my 9-year-old son was fascinated by a television program based on the Gospel of John that he found when flipping around stations. I don't know what it was called or who made it (although all the actors were British, I guess that's a clue). It was on a religious station, but one that is not listed in our television guide so I can't check. I didn't care much for the program but he LOVED it. Partly a nine-year-old's omnivorousness, but partly, I think, a fascination for the exotic costumes and sets. Knowing a bit more about costumes (and acting, and theology -- geez!) I was not as impressed. Everyone wore very thick cloth with very ragged edges. The women's headdresses must have weighed a ton, I bet those actresses had headaches. Anyway, I think my son is more indicative of most people's reactions to costumes than I am. He just loved that they looked "cool." It was a long time ago, so he thought it was perfectly fitting that they were dirty and ragged. Gail Finke PS: Favorite theological/costume moment in the program: After John and Peter come in the tomb and see the burial garments, they go out again and a huge bright light shines in the tomb and the two burial garments disappear into thin air!!! That is, of course, not in the Gospel at all, but it sure cuts off any discussion about the Shroud of Turin and that Veil in Germany, doesn't it? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 11:35:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFZdx7018229 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:35:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NFZX9x001960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFYlJA012977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:34:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFYhDd032212; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:34:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFYcux031970 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:34:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 23 Sep 2006 16:34:32 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAKruFEWBToohAgIHBAoHBh0 Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:1034 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GR9WR-000BJa-Sx for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:34:31 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:34:25 +0100 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45155445.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:35:39 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4f4aa0d2-b06e-4e00-87fc-d5e5855bf706 Status: RO > >Since we always rant so much about how bad Hollywood does historical >costumes in movies, here's a question that ought to get a lot of >replies. I am teaching a class in the costume and fashion >industries and thought it would be fun to show some clips of >costumes from movies, and not just good examples but some really bad >ones. For instance, I happened to see on tv a bit of an old movie >from the 1950s a couple weeks ago called "Princess of the Nile" >which took place in the Middle East and the costumes were so bad >they were really laughable. The women were wearing high spiked >heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you all can name some >other old movies with really anachronistic or just plain wrong >historical costumes. > >Sylrog From what I remember, "Desiree" with Marlon Brando as Napoleon and Jean Simmons as Desiree. Men's uniforms seem to be O.K. but I'm sure I saw the ladies in high heels under their Regency dresses - and I love the film. The Helen Mirren "Elizabeth l" recently, and the Cate Blanchett ditto gave me the screaming heebie jeebies - fabric, shapes, wigs - eurgh!! And "Henry Vlll" with Ray Winstone and Helena Bonham Carter - why was Anne Boleyn wearing sarees? And "King Arthur" with Clive Owen, Keira Knightley in blue paint and leather bra, and Ray Winstone (see above) in what I swear was an English Civil War back and breast plate in one of the battles. Oh, dear, I'd better stop and get on with some work! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 11:43:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFhKRS018368 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:43:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NFhF3v017230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:43:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFgmQt013938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:42:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFgkq9042184; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:42:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFgg4v041967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:42:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8NGaciV031866 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:36:38 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:43:11 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609231143.11658.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45155613.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:43:20 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 63d426fa-979f-48c0-a2da-eea9f0c54939 Status: RO How about the "Black Shield of Falworth" (1954)? Pure medieval mystery meat. Somehow they managed to make everything look as though it was made from polyester even though the movie was made before the polyester era. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 11:45:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFjbhB018432 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:45:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NFjSQ9018538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:45:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFixgs014279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:44:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFivT9045075; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:44:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFim2B044752 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:44:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 23 Sep 2006 16:44:42 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAACvzFEWBToohAgIHAgwHBh0 Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:1153 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GR9gI-000ABW-Gl for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:44:42 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923164227.031cb228@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:44:46 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies In-Reply-To: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> References: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45155698.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:45:37 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4f667362-aac5-48b0-9f84-2396b9c838a7 Status: RO At 16:53 23/09/2006, you wrote: >Scaramouche (the one made in 1952) has always been one of my >favorites. It's set in the 18th century, but the women all have the >50s lift-and-separate bullet bras underneath their gowns. I'm sure >there are many other costume gaffes as well, but that's the most >noticeable one. It's a charming movie, though--good swordfight at the end. > >Melanie Schuessler > > >Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >>Since we always rant so much about how bad Hollywood does >>historical costumes in movies, here's a question that ought to get >>a lot of replies. I am teaching a class in the costume and fashion >>industries and thought it would be fun to show some clips of >>costumes from movies, and not just good examples but some really >>bad ones. For instance, I happened to see on tv a bit of an old >>movie from the 1950s a couple weeks ago called "Princess of the >>Nile" which took place in the Middle East and the costumes were so >>bad they were really laughable. The women were wearing high spiked >>heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you all can name some >>other old movies with really anachronistic or just plain wrong >>historical costumes. >>Sylrog And "Ivanhoe" - Robert Taylor and Elizabeth Taylor. (Again men fairly reasonable). Same period "Quo Vadis with Robert Taylor, again, and Ava Gardner? And who could forget Errol Flynn in tights as Robin Hood? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 12:30:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGUD59019296 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:30:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NGU8Kj007304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGT1vA019656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:29:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGStGN001203; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:28:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NEcL6I061034 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:38:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.3b3.767e88c (14467) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:38:10 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <3b3.767e88c.3246a0d2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:38:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45156110.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:30:13 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 1d9902d7-c08f-4d0e-90b3-5bb040e8b472 Status: RO In a message dated 9/23/2006 10:31:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: but some really bad ones. The 1940 "Pride and Prejudice," with costumes in highly fantasized 1830s-era. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 12:41:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGfTCj019533 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:41:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NGfOH7027797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGemhD021273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:40:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGejXo016601; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:40:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGedjX016388 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:40:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8NGeXa02658 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:40:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <3b3.767e88c.3246a0d2@aol.com> References: <3b3.767e88c.3246a0d2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:40:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451563B4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:41:29 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 2b69a638-5b09-4f8b-a225-e5804bc3fbef Status: RO Oh! Oh! The Court Jester with Danny Kaye and Angela Landsbury. :D Some of the best twisty-silly dialogue EVER, but oh my the clothes! Althea On Sep 23, 2006, at 7:38 AM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/23/2006 10:31:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sylvia@ntw.net writes: > > but some really bad ones. > > > The 1940 "Pride and Prejudice," with costumes in highly fantasized > 1830s-era. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com "Ignorant themselves of the forces of nature and wanting to have company in their ignorance, they don't want people to look into anything; they want us to believe like peasants and not ask the reasons behind things." William of Conches, 12th century _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 12:45:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGjAAV019621 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:45:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NGj3k4029390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:45:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGhuib021747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:43:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGhtZn020588; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:43:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGhooK020344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:43:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8NHbl76000918 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:37:47 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:44:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4515648F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:45:10 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 3c6b2893-eac2-488b-8df9-985f9ad47aa2 Status: RO On Saturday 23 September 2006 11:34 am, Suzi Clarke wrote: [snip] > The Helen Mirren "Elizabeth l" recently, and the Cate Blanchett ditto > gave me the screaming heebie jeebies - fabric, shapes, wigs - eurgh!! I'm not familiar with the Mirren film, but you're right about the Blanchett movie; for every costume that wasn't too bad, there were a ton of gowns that looked like bad Ren Faire escapees. I got particularly annoyed because the Robert Dudley character went around with his doublet open and his shirt collar untied! No sane man would have gone about in public dressed like that in period. (When Hamlet visits Ophelia in a similar state of deshabille, she immediately assumes he's run mad.) > And "Henry Vlll" with Ray Winstone and Helena Bonham Carter - why was > Anne Boleyn wearing sarees? I have heard so much about how bad those costumes are I've actually become interesting in seeing it--if only to justify my curiosity. > And "King Arthur" with Clive Owen, Keira Knightley in blue paint and > leather bra, Beats me why they seemed to think she was a Pict. :-) > and Ray Winstone (see above) in what I swear was an > English Civil War back and breast plate in one of the battles. Missed that little item. One thing I hated about that movie was how drab all the costumes were. The other thing is the way they kept mixing the potentially historical with the patently legendary. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 13:07:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NH7USu020042 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:07:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NH7Nnw005259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:07:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NH6q7n024812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:06:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NH6oVD049523; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NH6iSq049269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8NI0fYu001527 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:00:41 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:07:15 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <3b3.767e88c.3246a0d2@aol.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609231307.15244.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451569CC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:07:30 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0c13e9aa-696f-4f39-a29b-c8b111ba4a91 Status: RO On Saturday 23 September 2006 12:40 pm, Althea Turner wrote: > Oh! Oh! The Court Jester with Danny Kaye and Angela Landsbury. :D > > Some of the best twisty-silly dialogue EVER, but oh my the clothes! Yes! You are quite right. My husband loves that movie--but not for the costumes. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 16:54:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NKsgEM024970 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:54:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NKsaw7006079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:54:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NKrX2U060859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:53:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NKrSlo039477; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:53:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NKrNkn039396 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:53:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD5227402E2; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:47:14 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:53:33 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01c6df52$552c8090$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45159F0C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:54:42 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4a8b8928-0b9f-4c27-9fc0-ceab4171e6b9 Status: RO "The Pirate" with Gene Kelly and Judy Garland. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 7:30 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Since we always rant so much about how bad Hollywood does historical costumes in movies, here's a question that ought to get a lot of replies. I am teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries and thought it would be fun to show some clips of costumes from movies, and not just good examples but some really bad ones. For instance, I happened to see on tv a bit of an old movie from the 1950s a couple weeks ago called "Princess of the Nile" which took place in the Middle East and the costumes were so bad they were really laughable. The women were wearing high spiked heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you all can name some other old movies with really anachronistic or just plain wrong historical costumes. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 18:13:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NMDQcx026582 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:13:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NMDJPd017391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:13:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGTx6D019881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:29:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NGTvtm002465; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:29:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S1.cableone.net (s1.cableone.net [24.116.0.227]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NFKnSR014296 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:20:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from anteckim (unverified [72.24.105.253]) by S1.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S1) with ESMTP id 75595949 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:20:43 -0700 From: "Kim Baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: tv costumes Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 10:32:13 -0500 Message-ID: <016b01c6df25$721b3ed0$6401a8c0@anteckim> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcbfI1/BrIY0gXv8Sw+RYDL2PukbCAAAgvRw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 43, in=59, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 72.24.105.253 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4515B17F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:13:26 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 074f33fa-808f-48b8-b95c-3bcc2b12da8f Status: RO 701-306-1691 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:54 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: tv costumes Yesterday my 9-year-old son was fascinated by a television program based on the Gospel of John that he found when flipping around stations. I don't know what it was called or who made it (although all the actors were British, I guess that's a clue). It was on a religious station, but one that is not listed in our television guide so I can't check. I didn't care much for the program but he LOVED it. Partly a nine-year-old's omnivorousness, but partly, I think, a fascination for the exotic costumes and sets. Knowing a bit more about costumes (and acting, and theology -- geez!) I was not as impressed. Everyone wore very thick cloth with very ragged edges. The women's headdresses must have weighed a ton, I bet those actresses had headaches. Anyway, I think my son is more indicative of most people's reactions to costumes than I am. He just loved that they looked "cool." It was a long time ago, so he thought it was perfectly fitting that they were dirty and ragged. Gail Finke PS: Favorite theological/costume moment in the program: After John and Peter come in the tomb and see the burial garments, they go out again and a huge bright light shines in the tomb and the two burial garments disappear into thin air!!! That is, of course, not in the Gospel at all, but it sure cuts off any discussion about the Shroud of Turin and that Veil in Germany, doesn't it? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 19:29:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NNTLtS027849 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:29:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NNTG9w001012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:29:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NNSPxt024766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:28:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NNSLbD055300; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:28:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NNSGBY055039 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:28:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c2f.3dda3fc (63000) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:28:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:28:09 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 630 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4515C34C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:29:21 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0cde8bd9-32df-42eb-a8e9-92207418a5a4 Status: RO In a message dated 9/23/06 7:01:13 PM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > >The Helen Mirren "Elizabeth l" recently, and the Cate Blanchett ditto > >gave me the screaming heebie jeebies - fabric, shapes, wigs - eurgh!! the helen mirren one was repeated on C4 tonight, we flicked onto it, and within about thirty seconds I was screaming at the set about the lack of buttons on a court doublet. :o) Nige had to turn over cos he couldn't hear himself on the phone. (hey, I have to put up with his screaming over the military stuff (not just clothes) in practically every film ever made!!) One of my favourite films ever is 'for me and my gal' - the old one with gene kelly and judy garland - set before and during the first world war, but the costumes are pure 40s. And plunkett and mclean, which actually has quite good costumes on the whole - though they've got the brown = peasant thing too :o( , but the thing that really jars is the close up of a woman wearing a sheer nylon (roll eyes!). and shoulder pads in men's clothes - modern shoulder pads in anything pre whatever date they were invented by that tailor in new york (forget when that was), also get me yeling at the screen. happens in far too many films to mention. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 19:39:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NNdlUd028003 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:39:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8NNdgRU014855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NNdPDf027925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:39:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NNdMGk070231; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:39:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail4.tpgi.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8NNdHc1070112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:39:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-218-251-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.218.251]) by mail4.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8NNdEVc012238 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:39:16 +1000 Message-ID: <002301c6df69$7afbf2d0$fbdaf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:39:14 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4515C5BE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:39:46 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: b09a93ff-fe72-4d15-a187-3d26cab96079 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 12:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > Since we always rant so much about how bad Hollywood does historical > costumes in movies, here's a question that ought to get a lot of replies. > I am teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries and thought it > would be fun to show some clips of costumes from movies, and not just > good examples but some really bad ones. For instance, I happened to see > on tv a bit of an old movie from the 1950s a couple weeks ago called > "Princess of the Nile" which took place in the Middle East and the > costumes were so bad they were really laughable. The women were wearing > high spiked heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you all can name > some other old movies with really anachronistic or just plain wrong > historical costumes. > > Sylrog Actually I did a presentation on historical films as a genre a few years ago, I did a direct comparison between 'The King and I' (1950s musical version with Deborah Kerr wearing hoops as wide as she is tall) and 'Anna and the King' (pretty darned good costuming and the story was a major improvement on the 1950s version, though Hollywood still needed the love interest so they brought the King's age down from over 60 to 30 something, both versions are still banned in Thailand) I showed the equivalent scene in both films (where Anna first meets the children) and pointed out the differences (like the fact that _The King and I_ was clearly shot on a Hollywood set whereas _Anna and the King_ had been filmed on location, although they couldn't get filming permission from the Thai government and had to film in Singapore). Although The King and I is not as really awful as some other movies of that era the direct comparison is kinda nice. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 20:59:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O0wx6F030086 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:58:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O0wsBI012947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:58:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O0wA2a047543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:58:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O0w3VC077769; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:58:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cirrus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.92]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O0vwpV077617 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 18:58:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail3.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.166]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6C81700E5 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:57:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-123-173.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-123-173.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.123.173]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:57:56 +1000 Message-ID: <1159059476.4515d814b5fde@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:57:56 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies References: <003e01c6df52$552c8090$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <003e01c6df52$552c8090$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4515D84E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:58:59 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 5b40be47-df64-4748-aae3-15fe93eff9fd Status: RO Oh, history shmystory...I kind'a like the Corman science firction movie (think it was Battle Beyond the Stars) where we are chased by frayed peasant mutants in brown (yes, brown) smocks -- every time they rounded a corner running at high speed, the smocks would flap up and reveal Levis, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 21:10:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O1ANDx030385 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:10:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O1AJZO016652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:10:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O19pKf051454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:09:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O19lKP094711; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8O19hI1094513 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:09:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 65043 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2006 01:09:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ifipYfyXd18KnWYRs1ceNWYRt0mSSJgNOjcmOpvDfmMXTHk+yVNOb1ldNS6YWtduWsyaYLzEspnOAC3SDgHBQghVm3R/nZ1e++fH97p5SisTK5OE+j8X9k5Y/nPQlMvd8VIexx+DGtX6FF+WgSFejFLZzZGjuqFzVdjBJdSfGPI= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?74.118.28.236?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@74.118.28.236 with plain) by smtp102.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2006 01:09:38 -0000 Message-ID: <4515DADA.1090407@rogers.com> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:09:46 -0400 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> <200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4515DAFB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:10:23 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: a7e04de1-1ec4-4ed9-9be0-b1a0a53008ae Status: RO Greetings-- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > I'm not familiar with the Mirren film, but you're right about the Blanchett > movie; for every costume that wasn't too bad, there were a ton of gowns that > looked like bad Ren Faire escapees. I got particularly annoyed because the > Robert Dudley character went around with his doublet open and his shirt > collar untied! No sane man would have gone about in public dressed like that > in period. (When Hamlet visits Ophelia in a similar state of deshabille, she > immediately assumes he's run mad.) I remember when the movie came out, we got a kick of explaining that Joseph Fiennes had it left over from "Shakespeare in Love", or vice versa. (It was also quite the shame that the movie didn't have Dudley doing much except mooning around and acting all moody.) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 22:03:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O23YXM031614 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:03:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O23Ucl023849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:03:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O22m5k064913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:02:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O22g6O067071; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:02:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:BluMZAMcRG98mM3TxIgonvW4CLwBB9zR@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O22dEe066968 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:02:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.52] (206-124-5-52.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.52]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8O1tsh14126 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:55:55 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <002301c6df69$7afbf2d0$fbdaf5dc@user4712b7d135> References: <002301c6df69$7afbf2d0$fbdaf5dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <66a30aa05143852c04db039b81804f32@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:02:40 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4515E772.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:03:34 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 1c51611e-1c27-4538-b7da-6843546eb8f9 Status: RO I just thought of one myself---Giant. It is supposed to start out in the 1920's, I believe, only it's really hard to tell by the costumes. They may have added a dropped waist or two to the otherwise obviously 1950s style dresses. I think I read something about the designer's approach to the costuming at one time, but I can't recall what it was now. Anyone else know? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 22:05:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O25scT031674 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:05:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O25pNo024563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:05:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O25QxV065454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:05:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O25PUb070781; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:05:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O25Lwl070559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:05:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8O2xJKi014469 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:59:20 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:05:53 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> <200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com> <4515DADA.1090407@rogers.com> In-Reply-To: <4515DADA.1090407@rogers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609232205.53351.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4515E7FF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:05:54 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: fb9012c9-5ba0-4e22-b921-8498dd94ff65 Status: RO On Saturday 23 September 2006 9:09 pm, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > Greetings-- > > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > I'm not familiar with the Mirren film, but you're right about the > > Blanchett movie; for every costume that wasn't too bad, there were a ton > > of gowns that looked like bad Ren Faire escapees. I got particularly > > annoyed because the Robert Dudley character went around with his doublet > > open and his shirt collar untied! No sane man would have gone about in > > public dressed like that in period. (When Hamlet visits Ophelia in a > > similar state of deshabille, she immediately assumes he's run mad.) > > I remember when the movie came out, we got a kick of explaining that > Joseph Fiennes had it left over from "Shakespeare in Love", or vice versa. It annoyed me just as much in "Shakespeare in Love." ;-) > > (It was also quite the shame that the movie didn't have Dudley doing > much except mooning around and acting all moody.) > Agreed. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 23:47:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O3l63d001399 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:47:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O3l319014930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:47:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O3kR59089790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:46:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O3kOXx007031; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:46:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O3kLPR006818 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:46:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c13.56a22e3 (63024) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:46:10 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:46:10 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4515FFB7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:47:06 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d7311b4c-8ec3-4da0-b340-b5ae1b834c5a Status: RO In a message dated 9/23/2006 11:35:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: >From what I remember, "Desiree" with Marlon Brando as Napoleon and Jean Simmons as Desiree. Men's uniforms seem to be O.K. but I'm sure I saw the ladies in high heels under their Regency dresses - and I love the film. I have to look that one up--saw it years and years ago, and seem to remember that Josephine's coronation gown wasn't what David painted. Will look for high heels, too! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 23 23:47:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O3lhrF001409 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:47:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O3leg7031771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:47:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O3lAHB089871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:47:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O3l9m1007889; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:47:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O3l6Kl007715 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 21:47:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.367.d7aeca4 (63024) for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:46:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <367.d7aeca4.324759b2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:46:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4515FFDC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:47:43 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: f5d569e3-f146-43e6-9395-d120a9652568 Status: RO In a message dated 9/23/2006 11:43:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: Somehow they managed to make everything look as though it was made from polyester even though the movie was made before the polyester era. Maybe it was nylon, the miracle fiber of the early '50s? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 01:32:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O5WfYv003827 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:32:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O5WbUA031418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:32:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O5W6NQ013437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:32:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O5W2iE048322; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:32:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O5VxYK048234 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:32:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1GRMar2P8W-0002nL; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:31:58 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c6df9a$ba87d6e0$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:31:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45161875.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:32:41 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 1df0eca4-23ac-4a01-815c-52db87f82ae9 Status: RO Sylrog, I tried to watch an old British B&W movie of David Copperfield the other day. The costumes were so bad that I turned it off. My husband and I couldn't figure out what decade the costumes were supposed to represent. The men were one decade and the women were a mixture of everything from 1820s to 1850s. I will rarely turn off something because of bad costumes, but this one is my all time worse film. I think this version was playing "On Demand" for Stars, HBO, or Encore. I just checked and it isn't playing this month. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 01:35:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O5ZpPC003915 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:35:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O5ZmIq032485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:35:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O5ZOpu014290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:35:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O5ZMRD052989; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8O5ZIWa052773 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 29091 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2006 05:35:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=w9EMwNnrLpPlwvuoBx2NCqK1PwgkQWJ3Q0k1uL62KF/kyjZ7eaozNIOKRkN5ZtPUXqGCpsSy9uVewLBL7+MnJDkh3LuZKtfwv1KmlNuSknxDERlObHInvzEuJRwJDNs1R+nTAX1OmW5KF7jUZbzWFNTssOFJPFzCV9LWajP7MfI= ; Message-ID: <20060924053513.29089.qmail@web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.160.123.129] by web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:35:13 PDT Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:35:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45161934.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:35:51 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: f4144f1f-ac40-4221-95f7-c6349a8465d9 Status: RO hmmm. what about " The Vikings" with Kirk Douglas,Tony ("yonda lies da castle of my Fadda") Curtis and Janet Leigh, all leather and fur and quasi med-evil looking dresses,made of some gawd awful shiny fabric,and chiffon headgear on Janet Leigh..... Sylvia Rognstad wrote: Since we always rant so much about how bad Hollywood does historical costumes in movies, here's a question that ought to get a lot of replies. I am teaching a class in the costume and fashion industries and thought it would be fun to show some clips of costumes from movies, and not just good examples but some really bad ones. For instance, I happened to see on tv a bit of an old movie from the 1950s a couple weeks ago called "Princess of the Nile" which took place in the Middle East and the costumes were so bad they were really laughable. The women were wearing high spiked heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you all can name some other old movies with really anachronistic or just plain wrong historical costumes. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 03:37:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O7b44p008771 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:37:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O7b05U032759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O7aKcp043954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:36:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O7a9Gd006465; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:36:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O7a3qQ006331 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:36:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1GROWv1li5-0001ui; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:36:03 -0400 Message-ID: <005701c6dfac$0f505650$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:35:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costumes/fashion history classes in college X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4516359C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:37:04 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: bb8757fa-69f7-4640-8836-4ebe14ab65a0 Status: RO I have taken seven costume/fashion history classes in college. Two in the fashion dept., four in the theater costume design dept. and one in the home ec. ed. program. These classes were at three different colleges and during three decades, 70s, 80s, & 90s.. I wrote and drew my hand off in these classes. I resorted to audiotaping the costume history classes then came home and type them. Two costume semesters, I took classes with directing grad. students. They rarely turned anything in on time, and missed class frequently because they were ***busy*** with the production. They took incompletes. One problem in the classes is that all are just overviews and lectures. Time constraints and how much you can actually cram into a semester is very limited. My costume classes involved a lot of drawing and taking notes. All my classes did not overlapped in subject content. I guess if you want to get into specific details, one would need to get into a graduate level and make that your thesis. When I taught my college class this past summer and the high school fashion teachers' re-certification class, you have to hit upon the highlights of given periods. I taught one decade per class day. The decades were from 1840s-1970s. I was supposed to teach up to the 1980s. But the students were so interested in the 1950s, we spent two days on the decade. Since it was the summer semester, one day equaled one week of college. Even with three hours on a decade, there was not enough time to get too detailed. My class consisted of a mix of fashion design and merchandising students. So I also had to not only covered design end but the business history side of the industries. I have studied both and tried my best to mix the content enough not to bore either group. Funny, but once, I mentioned something about the history of menstrual products. We had a 30 min. discussion on the topic. I will start teaching the class again in January. This class is now open to all majors at the university. Another problem is the manner the classes are taught. So many professors, have you write your hands off and/or flash slides for three hours. I believe one remembers what is being taught if the classes are more interactive. I divided my class into intervals where we utilized different venues/resources. We looked at period publications and the students had to write a daily report and read a summary of their previous day's publication. We started the class everyday that way. The students could chose topics from vintage fashion publications that interested them. If a student was interested in advertising, designers, etc., they could report daily on that topic for that decade. At the end of the semester, they had to turn in all their daily reports. Another portion of the class, was spent looking at actual period garments online, like Karen Augusta, MET, or the McCord Museum websites. Another class portion was looking at actual period items from the depts. collection. We looked at how the costume fit on a dressform and then I would undress the dressforms so the student could see how the garment was put on & off. We would look at the costumes' construction inside and out. At the time, the collection had very few 19th Century items. I am working this semester photographing their collection to go online. Someone recently donated a large personal collection to the university. So now they had a lot more 19th Century items. I would also make time to show videos, but history films of topics like the Lowell Mills, Rosie the Riveter, retailers or designers. When we reached a time when movie stars were influential on fashion, I would show video clips or look at photos online. When we got to the 1950s, I brought in the square-dance petticoats and had the students wear them the entire class time. At first, the students thought I was crazy, but by break-time, they wanted to wear them to the local 7-11. I wanted them to know what it was like to wear the big petticoats like the 1950s females wore. I put my class notes online, so the students did not have to keep drawing or writing the entire class time. The knowledge retention of the students was very impressive. My tests were very lengthy and detailed that covered the majority of the topics covered in class. I was very impressed with them! All but 2 of the students made A's & B's for a final grade. Even my undecided major student made an A! I think he has decided on his major now! I talked personally outside of class with the majority of my students. They said that they took the course in the summer because they had heard how difficult it was. Since it was my first semester, they had not heard of my style of teaching. At the end of the semester, they didn't want the class to end. I started photographing the collection shortly after I finished my class in late June. The new/potential student tours came through my classroom daily at 2:00 while I was photographing the collection. My classroom has a door to the collection. The group would stop and ask me questions about fashion history and whatever I was working on that day. The asst. chair suggested that I give them business cards, because I having to write my name down for them. The students were wanting to take my class. Fashion/costume is a creative and visual industry. No one wants to sit and write for three hours... even the business side of the industry. Today, we have so many other resources available to utilize besides a slide show and three hours of lecture. The presentations at Costume Society I always learned and retained so much was given by a professor from LSU. She was very entertaining and had a different approach. She enjoyed her topics and wanted you to love them as much as she did. If there were more professors like her, I think you would see a lot more people retaining what they were taught. AND want to learn more. She left you with the feeling, that you wanted to learn more and for the education not to end! Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 05:31:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O9VVN7020080 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 05:31:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8O9VSoZ001623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 05:31:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O9V0H3071820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:31:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O9UsWx062515; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8O9Um7T062413 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:30:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.87.75] (helo=[192.168.0.3]) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GRQJv-0004rh-2N for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 05:30:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> <200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 02:18:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc94e37c7ad13c6ccf399d140445335ed0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.87.75 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45165070.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 05:31:31 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: e6913c58-96b5-4f07-9d10-f3a74e17c36f Status: RO At 12:44 PM -0400 9/23/06, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > And "King Arthur" with Clive Owen, Keira Knightley in blue paint and > > leather bra, > >Beats me why they seemed to think she was a Pict. :-) Beats me why they seemed to think a Pict would have worn an outfit apparently inspired by the female lead in the science fiction film _The Fifth Element_! Other, of course, then the general modern movie fashion for basing historical film costuming on sf/fantasy costuming. (In my opinion, a study of the development of historical movie/tv costuming can't be done without considering and covering the developments in fantasy film/tv costuming -- most modern historicals owe more to Xena Warrior Princess and the like than any historical research for their costuming... And by this I really do mean there is a connection, not just that the costuming isn't as historically accurate as it could be.) Sharon PS I can understand why they think a Pict would wear blue paint -- they're wrong, of course, but so many people are wrong on this that one can understand why yet another is also wrong... -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me! http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/ Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 10:01:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OE1Jqi031687 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:01:19 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OE1EUK032497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:01:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OE0aDr059005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:00:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OE0IaN061696; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:00:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OE00iF061339 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:00:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from dm26.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62DB23FECA for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 07:00:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060924070000.D2E1F600@resin06.mta.everyone.net> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 07:00:00 -0700 From: " Lalah" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRFFo9g0Re2lgEAAAAB,9730c10e9461c94510464c303198af6f X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.117.9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45168FAA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:01:19 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 8aaf959a-c77a-4279-a190-808200770a55 Status: RO No movie with Yul Brenner could be "really awful". :o) Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- ewalpole@tpg.com.au wrote: From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:39:14 +1000 Although The King and I is not as really awful as some other movies of that era the direct comparison is kinda nice. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 13:42:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OHgpuG004729 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:42:51 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OHgmq6011904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:42:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OHg7G7039187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OHfxAS091472; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:42:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s32.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s32.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.168]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OHfucD091289 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:41:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.15]) by bay0-omc2-s32.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:41:51 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 10:41:50 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 24.222.128.141 by BAY121-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:41:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.222.128.141] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005d01c6df21$ebbf85b0$3dad4744@VAIO> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:41:43 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2006 17:41:50.0792 (UTC) FILETIME=[B7621C80:01C6E000] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Deadwood X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4516C398.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:42:51 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 52c94198-a027-432d-8b32-4115b3c17482 Status: RO I think that if they were so willing to get the costumes right, they would have gotten the language right too...sorry, didn't get to see much of this series, was too put off by the extreme use of VERY modern foul language! Kelly >I can think of one program, or a series of programs, that may have gotten >it right. I'm thinking of Deadwood, the series on HBO following the history >of the Dakota Territory mining camp, Deadwood, set in 1879 and on. What >impressed me was the extensive research that was done on the show that is >reflected in the sets and, to my untrained eye, the costumes. What is >everyone else's opinion of this show? > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Gilbert > author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England > www.marjoriegilbert.net > Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown > http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 14:03:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI3bAu005220 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:03:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OI3YBR009148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI2vCe050287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:02:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI2uYd026711; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:02:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8OI2rDj026498 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:02:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 42737 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2006 18:02:48 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Q4NPJxYDOXYjGhmBhxLQ6V9RJmWL6xafbUSwwtgsQiciUtHaHE9QteT3N3i+rKG4kV/xhdZkuyAOh0BYHEizSPk5Vr6+UQ3XwI1QkuqgxeXsvMoeCu2hrtJTVsRIWXkuoUIP3i3AHGBidm6kk0DlQwt0A/3CgHO04r7Ko4bpprI= ; Message-ID: <20060924180248.42735.qmail@web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.37.216.168] by web31003.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:02:48 PDT Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:02:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4516C876.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:03:37 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c7315d02-ca73-474b-a4b5-1c22a7dc9347 Status: RO I have to admit that I was pretty surprised with the first/second shows and the language, but fortunately it has toned down a bit. I've seen the first seven now and actually, for the time and neighborhood, the language is pretty acurate. Tough to get around sometimes, but I, for one, have begun to really enjoy the characters and as for the costuming, I'm fairly good with the mid/later Vic era and they're really well done. Just my two cents :) Chris G. kelly grant wrote: I think that if they were so willing to get the costumes right, they would have gotten the language right too...sorry, didn't get to see much of this series, was too put off by the extreme use of VERY modern foul language! Kelly >I can think of one program, or a series of programs, that may have gotten >it right. I'm thinking of Deadwood, the series on HBO following the history >of the Dakota Territory mining camp, Deadwood, set in 1879 and on. What >impressed me was the extensive research that was done on the show that is >reflected in the sets and, to my untrained eye, the costumes. What is >everyone else's opinion of this show? > > Marjorie > > Marjorie Gilbert > author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England > www.marjoriegilbert.net > Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown > http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 14:08:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI7276005294 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:07:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OI6wEW011393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:07:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI6TJl051597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:06:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI6RwS032112; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:06:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI6Lfv031836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8OJ0OZ6032256 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:00:24 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:06:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> <200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609241406.57903.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4516C943.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:07:02 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4b404680-90c8-4484-a8a1-fb5a8eddaeec Status: RO On Sunday 24 September 2006 5:18 am, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: > At 12:44 PM -0400 9/23/06, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > > And "King Arthur" with Clive Owen, Keira Knightley in blue paint and > > > leather bra, > > > >Beats me why they seemed to think she was a Pict. :-) > Beats me why they seemed to think a Pict would have worn an outfit > apparently inspired by the female lead in the science fiction film > _The Fifth Element_! True. The Pict angle would only explain their use of blue paint, not the rest of the rig. ;-) > Other, of course, then the general modern movie fashion for basing > historical film costuming on sf/fantasy costuming. (In my opinion, a > study of the development of historical movie/tv costuming can't be > done without considering and covering the developments in fantasy > film/tv costuming -- most modern historicals owe more to Xena Warrior > Princess and the like than any historical research for their > costuming... And by this I really do mean there is a connection, not > just that the costuming isn't as historically accurate as it could > be.) Though there's also a decent argument that it's a waste of time and money to devote historical costume research to a summer popcorn movie--which this particular "King Arthur" definitely was. So that leaves the costume department cribbing from the SF/Fantasy section--the other source of popcorn movies..... -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 14:10:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI8HZF005325 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:08:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OI8C5w026341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:08:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI7grI051933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:07:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI7fdn033945; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:07:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI7bv3033692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:07:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8OJ1em4032306 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:01:40 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:08:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <367.d7aeca4.324759b2@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <367.d7aeca4.324759b2@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609241408.14486.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4516C98C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:08:17 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 06c28cb5-0d75-415e-9fdc-a46f324f6d21 Status: RO On Saturday 23 September 2006 11:46 pm, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/23/2006 11:43:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > > Somehow they managed to make everything look as though it was made from > polyester even though the movie was made before the polyester era. > > > > > Maybe it was nylon, the miracle fiber of the early '50s? I don't know, but it certainly could have been--that would explain a lot! Thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 14:17:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OIFT6O005482 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:15:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OIFQ3Y031940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:15:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OIEvXE059219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:14:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OIEqtb047031; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:14:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OIEdks046579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:14:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8OJ8foo032513 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:08:42 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:15:15 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <20060924053513.29089.qmail@web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060924053513.29089.qmail@web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609241415.15755.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4516CB3E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:15:29 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0536d89b-cdd2-4240-892d-2e2ecde87614 Status: RO On Sunday 24 September 2006 1:35 am, Melody Watts wrote: > hmmm. what about " The Vikings" with Kirk Douglas,Tony ("yonda lies da > castle of my Fadda") Curtis and Janet Leigh, all leather and fur and quasi > med-evil looking dresses,made of some gawd awful shiny fabric,and chiffon > headgear on Janet Leigh..... I thought the "castle of my Fadda the King" etc., etc. was *from* "Black Shield of Falworth." :-) "The Vikings" may have been no better (it certainly involves the same actors, and probably the same costume department) but I've never seen it. There's a great book called "Hollywood and History" which discusses at length the particular ways in which Hollywood screws up historic costuming in movies. Sylvia, you may want to see if you can track it down. Here's the information on it. Hollywood and History: Costume Design in Film by Edward Maeder, Alicia Annas, Satch Lavalley, Elois Jenssen Hardcover: 256 pages Publisher: Thames & Hudson (August 1990) ISBN: 0500014221 Amazon has used copies available for as little as $5.65: http://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-History-Costume-Design-Film/dp/0500014221/sr=8-15/qid=1159121482/ref=sr_1_15/104-4935471-9868767?ie=UTF8&s=books -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 14:58:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OIw0Nb006382 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:58:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OIvuGL028528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:57:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OIvHRO004570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OIvEJf024040; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:57:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:rKkmA84RT1fzJfYdP29G2f4I0+oTOcSb@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OIv8RT023792 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:57:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.47] (206-124-5-47.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.47]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8OIoMh08769 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:50:22 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: <005d01c6df21$ebbf85b0$3dad4744@VAIO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <09a3d09cc5bcc90a6d255d6e1f667050@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:57:04 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4516D534.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:58:00 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 9ea877b6-fbe2-4ed4-957f-2e6b97899ff9 Status: RO I have wondered about the language. I don't know that foul words are modern at all. Anyone else know? Sylrog On Sep 24, 2006, at 11:41 AM, kelly grant wrote: > > I think that if they were so willing to get the costumes right, they > would have gotten the language right too...sorry, didn't get to see > much of this series, was too put off by the extreme use of VERY modern > foul language! > > Kelly > > >> I can think of one program, or a series of programs, that may have >> gotten it right. I'm thinking of Deadwood, the series on HBO >> following the history of the Dakota Territory mining camp, Deadwood, >> set in 1879 and on. What impressed me was the extensive research that >> was done on the show that is reflected in the sets and, to my >> untrained eye, the costumes. What is everyone else's opinion of this >> show? >> >> Marjorie >> >> Marjorie Gilbert >> author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England >> www.marjoriegilbert.net >> Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown >> http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 15:24:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJOagq007479 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:24:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OJOWcR010957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJNc0D021261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:23:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJNaD1066633; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s28.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s28.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.100]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJNVfe066473 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:23:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.19]) by bay0-omc1-s28.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:23:26 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:23:25 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 24.222.128.141 by BAY121-DAV9.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:23:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.222.128.141] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005d01c6df21$ebbf85b0$3dad4744@VAIO> <09a3d09cc5bcc90a6d255d6e1f667050@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:23:21 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2006 19:23:25.0907 (UTC) FILETIME=[E85ADA30:01C6E00E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4516DB70.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:24:36 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 5669e467-a768-4a96-99fe-edc5908fdfe4 Status: RO I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it was the word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian words were used that frequently at that time! I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of those words at any point in his life. Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood >I have wondered about the language. I don't know that foul words are >modern at all. Anyone else know? > > Sylrog > > On Sep 24, 2006, at 11:41 AM, kelly grant wrote: > >> >> I think that if they were so willing to get the costumes right, they >> would have gotten the language right too...sorry, didn't get to see much >> of this series, was too put off by the extreme use of VERY modern foul >> language! >> >> Kelly >> >> >>> I can think of one program, or a series of programs, that may have >>> gotten it right. I'm thinking of Deadwood, the series on HBO following >>> the history of the Dakota Territory mining camp, Deadwood, set in 1879 >>> and on. What impressed me was the extensive research that was done on >>> the show that is reflected in the sets and, to my untrained eye, the >>> costumes. What is everyone else's opinion of this show? >>> >>> Marjorie >>> >>> Marjorie Gilbert >>> author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England >>> www.marjoriegilbert.net >>> Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown >>> http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 15:36:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJa45p007996 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:36:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OJa01F015651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJZAtK025124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:35:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJZ8EG082940; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:35:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:REPki9z9shgJOqndJXfLmnHt6dt/ey5P@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJZ5Nv082861 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:35:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.47] (206-124-5-47.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.47]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8OJSKh11063 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:28:20 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: <005d01c6df21$ebbf85b0$3dad4744@VAIO> <09a3d09cc5bcc90a6d255d6e1f667050@ntw.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <9034ca17c4e55a4bd5dfb57cb6a45e9a@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:35:02 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4516DE20.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:36:04 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 429b7ccd-80e4-468b-8fdb-45012a834287 Status: RO Well, as I said, I wondered about the frequency of it too. I doubt your grandfather hung around in the same company as the guys on Deadwood. Since we never (I don't think) see that word in writing before the late twentieth century, how do we know how they really talked? Do the writers have references to back up the usage (or overusage) of foul language? On Sep 24, 2006, at 1:23 PM, kelly grant wrote: > I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it was > the word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian > words were used that frequently at that time! > > I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of > those words at any point in his life. > > Kelly > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood > > >> I have wondered about the language. I don't know that foul words are >> modern at all. Anyone else know? >> >> Sylrog >> >> On Sep 24, 2006, at 11:41 AM, kelly grant wrote: >> >>> >>> I think that if they were so willing to get the costumes right, they >>> would have gotten the language right too...sorry, didn't get to see >>> much of this series, was too put off by the extreme use of VERY >>> modern foul language! >>> >>> Kelly >>> >>> >>>> I can think of one program, or a series of programs, that may have >>>> gotten it right. I'm thinking of Deadwood, the series on HBO >>>> following the history of the Dakota Territory mining camp, >>>> Deadwood, set in 1879 and on. What impressed me was the extensive >>>> research that was done on the show that is reflected in the sets >>>> and, to my untrained eye, the costumes. What is everyone else's >>>> opinion of this show? >>>> >>>> Marjorie >>>> >>>> Marjorie Gilbert >>>> author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England >>>> www.marjoriegilbert.net >>>> Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown >>>> http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 15:42:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJgS8m008133 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:42:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OJgPZA019119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:42:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJg8k2027125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OJg7RI093143; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.169]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8OJg3OF092965 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:42:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 62742 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2006 19:41:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=akzinYgm1ji+YKcIEFpiQ7YHVRvXOCEAPPkVSqvJTf8Gj/NEGOKuHweA8/N3yFqMyWUZD+8hhSae4NIyYVv51vPWCyI3z1fxDzTZ+OMHqbbeWCssdhEqS+Giy+vakwtPZs3xC+ie5fEkY9+cOlHdkb4OOtc8Inkb02pxCrJs8Nk= ; Message-ID: <20060924194155.62740.qmail@web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.37.216.168] by web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:41:55 PDT Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:41:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4516DFA1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:42:28 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: fdafb7c6-f7e1-4447-9b4e-29108b85c2b3 Status: RO Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a single swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but you've got to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and mostly uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with A site of possible interest: http://www.wordorigins.org There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about in my re-enacting! kelly grant wrote: I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it was the word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian words were used that frequently at that time! I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of those words at any point in his life. Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 17:48:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OLm424010974 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:48:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OLm1Pf012310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:48:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OLl6jA061951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:47:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OLl3JN069639; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:47:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OLkx0s069521 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:47:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m105.in-tch.com [216.166.191.105]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k8OLZKQ00416 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002801c6e024$1c904820$69bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060924194155.62740.qmail@web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:55:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4516FD11.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:48:04 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 64c7640f-3516-41b3-9f83-b7a1c30ab0c7 Status: RO Mine, either (well, at least not the one I knew...I think that man was *born* in a 3-piece suit!) I haven't seen any of these Deadwood episodes, so I'm not exactly sure which phrases y'all are trying to skate genteelly around, but it occurs to me that maybe, in what seems to have been a concerted effort for nitty-gritty realism, that the writers/people in charge went with words that would convey to a modern audience what the swear words from back then actually would have been? Almost like a translation? --Sue, taking a break from garden-digging and bulb planting... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood > Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a single swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but you've got to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and mostly uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with > > A site of possible interest: > > http://www.wordorigins.org > > There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about in my re-enacting! > > kelly grant wrote: > I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it was the > word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian words > were used that frequently at that time! > > I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of those > words at any point in his life. > > Kelly > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood > > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 17:58:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OLw8NY011203 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:58:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OLw4PV018655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:58:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OLv6GT064237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OLv4CL082776; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:57:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:JSTDbRyvGwniigeQlCBF5EhsdQgluw2g@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OLv0av082704 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:57:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.47] (206-124-5-47.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.47]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8OLoBh21925 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:50:11 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <002801c6e024$1c904820$69bfa6d8@pavilion> References: <20060924194155.62740.qmail@web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002801c6e024$1c904820$69bfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <8d618cf2ae2e02a42a6c360a57fbc5c4@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:56:50 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4516FF6C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:58:08 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 5124bfd9-b59c-4477-93c2-7214c9af180b Status: RO Except that the rest of the language is quite old fashioned. I like that they went for that kind of realistic speech, and it seems a bit anachronistic that they combine that with all the profanity, unless people of that ilk really tended to use it that much back then. On Sep 24, 2006, at 3:55 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Mine, either (well, at least not the one I knew...I think that man was > *born* in a 3-piece suit!) > I haven't seen any of these Deadwood episodes, so I'm not exactly sure > which > phrases y'all are trying to skate genteelly around, but it occurs to > me that > maybe, in what seems to have been a concerted effort for nitty-gritty > realism, that the writers/people in charge went with words that would > convey > to a modern audience what the swear words from back then actually > would have > been? Almost like a translation? > --Sue, taking a break from garden-digging and bulb planting... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:41 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood > > >> Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a single > swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but you've > got > to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the > quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and mostly > uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with >> >> A site of possible interest: >> >> http://www.wordorigins.org >> >> There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about >> in my > re-enacting! >> >> kelly grant wrote: >> I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it >> was > the >> word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian >> words >> were used that frequently at that time! >> >> I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of >> those >> words at any point in his life. >> >> Kelly >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sylvia Rognstad" >> To: "Historical Costume" >> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! >> Small > Business. >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 18:06:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OM6OYh011394 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:06:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OM6KXx022697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:06:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OM5m3p066923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OM5kmJ095361; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:05:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s19.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s19.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.155]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OM5hhV095182 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:05:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.92]) by bay0-omc2-s19.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:05:38 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:05:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 207.46.10.123 by by121fd.bay121.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:05:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.222.128.141] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <8d618cf2ae2e02a42a6c360a57fbc5c4@ntw.net> From: "Kelly Grant" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:05:34 -0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2006 22:05:37.0853 (UTC) FILETIME=[910BF6D0:01C6E025] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4517015C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:06:24 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 49135270-ea16-4895-a566-f6804a05d285 Status: RO The website that was posted gave us many answers... Cunt - "Use of cunt as term of abuse for a woman is a 20th century sense. >From Frederic Manning's 1929 The Middle Parts of Fortune: 'What's the cunt want to come down 'ere buggering us about for, 'aven't we done enough bloody work in th' week?" So no, the word used is not appropriate for the time, and yes, if we have access to a website like this one, surely the writers of the show did too. But it's not really worth arguing over...producers of TV and movies are going to do what they like with costume and language...bummer, but true. Kelly >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Chris" >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:41 PM >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood >> >> >>>Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a single >>swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but you've got >>to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the >>quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and mostly >>uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with >>> >>> A site of possible interest: >>> >>> http://www.wordorigins.org >>> >>> There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about in >>>my >>re-enacting! >>> >>>kelly grant wrote: >>> I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it was >>the >>>word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian words >>>were used that frequently at that time! >>> >>>I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of >>>those >>>words at any point in his life. >>> >>>Kelly >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Sylvia Rognstad" >>>To: "Historical Costume" >>>Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM >>>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood >>> >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small >>Business. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>h-costume mailing list >>>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 18:13:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMDiLZ011551 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:13:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OMDek3026150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:13:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMDJgN068997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMDIAb005996; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:13:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMDDLl005735 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 24 Sep 2006 23:13:07 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAA2gFkWBTooiAQECBwQKBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:3115 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GRcDj-00095r-Br for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:13:07 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060924230942.031dba78@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:12:54 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood In-Reply-To: <8d618cf2ae2e02a42a6c360a57fbc5c4@ntw.net> References: <20060924194155.62740.qmail@web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002801c6e024$1c904820$69bfa6d8@pavilion> <8d618cf2ae2e02a42a6c360a57fbc5c4@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45170314.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:13:44 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 36e9c36d-f17a-440a-8db4-3cc20f609480 Status: RO At 22:56 24/09/2006, you wrote: >Except that the rest of the language is quite old fashioned. I like >that they went for that kind of realistic speech, and it seems a bit >anachronistic that they combine that with all the profanity, unless >people of that ilk really tended to use it that much back then. But I don't believe that the "old-fashioned speech" is actually what people in that area of America spoke like! (Or anywhere for that matter. I have many magazines of that period, with stories which include conversations. None of them is so convoluted and involved, even leaving out the swear words and other foul language. And my Grandfather, born in the 1890's, hated swearing. Suzi >On Sep 24, 2006, at 3:55 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >>Mine, either (well, at least not the one I knew...I think that man was >>*born* in a 3-piece suit!) >>I haven't seen any of these Deadwood episodes, so I'm not exactly sure which >>phrases y'all are trying to skate genteelly around, but it occurs to me that >>maybe, in what seems to have been a concerted effort for nitty-gritty >>realism, that the writers/people in charge went with words that would convey >>to a modern audience what the swear words from back then actually would have >>been? Almost like a translation? >>--Sue, taking a break from garden-digging and bulb planting... >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Chris" >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:41 PM >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood >> >> >>>Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a single >>swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but you've got >>to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the >>quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and mostly >>uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with >>> >>> A site of possible interest: >>> >>> http://www.wordorigins.org >>> >>> There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about in my >>re-enacting! >>> >>>kelly grant wrote: >>> I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it was >>the >>>word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian words >>>were used that frequently at that time! >>> >>>I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of those >>>words at any point in his life. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 18:22:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMMGDS011727 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:22:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OMMDfB003540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:22:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMLdeu071942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMLZUo016695; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:21:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:PeulYnEtaUTYwxF58FRHSlDjvXsLi5zG@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMLP2r016503 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:21:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.47] (206-124-5-47.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.47]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8OMEah23345 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:14:37 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060924230942.031dba78@suziclarke.co.uk> References: <20060924194155.62740.qmail@web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002801c6e024$1c904820$69bfa6d8@pavilion> <8d618cf2ae2e02a42a6c360a57fbc5c4@ntw.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060924230942.031dba78@suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <6c8cecbeb006bf730413a30338f36511@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:20:59 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45170515.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:22:17 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 99553169-e9e5-43ef-8a94-8ca66b3c199c Status: RO If you grandfather hated swearing, then he must have heard it from others who did use it at that time. On Sep 24, 2006, at 4:12 PM, Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 22:56 24/09/2006, you wrote: >> Except that the rest of the language is quite old fashioned. I like >> that they went for that kind of realistic speech, and it seems a bit >> anachronistic that they combine that with all the profanity, unless >> people of that ilk really tended to use it that much back then. > > But I don't believe that the "old-fashioned speech" is actually what > people in that area of America spoke like! (Or anywhere for that > matter. I have many magazines of that period, with stories which > include conversations. None of them is so convoluted and involved, > even leaving out the swear words and other foul language. And my > Grandfather, born in the 1890's, hated swearing. > > Suzi >> On Sep 24, 2006, at 3:55 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> >>> Mine, either (well, at least not the one I knew...I think that man >>> was >>> *born* in a 3-piece suit!) >>> I haven't seen any of these Deadwood episodes, so I'm not exactly >>> sure which >>> phrases y'all are trying to skate genteelly around, but it occurs to >>> me that >>> maybe, in what seems to have been a concerted effort for nitty-gritty >>> realism, that the writers/people in charge went with words that >>> would convey >>> to a modern audience what the swear words from back then actually >>> would have >>> been? Almost like a translation? >>> --Sue, taking a break from garden-digging and bulb planting... >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris" >>> To: "Historical Costume" >>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood >>> >>> >>>> Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a >>>> single >>> swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but >>> you've got >>> to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the >>> quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and >>> mostly >>> uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with >>>> >>>> A site of possible interest: >>>> >>>> http://www.wordorigins.org >>>> >>>> There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about >>>> in my >>> re-enacting! >>>> >>>> kelly grant wrote: >>>> I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it >>>> was >>> the >>>> word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian >>>> words >>>> were used that frequently at that time! >>>> >>>> I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some >>>> of those >>>> words at any point in his life. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 18:25:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMP3PQ011786 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:25:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OMOxeh030680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:25:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMO6rW072982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMNpXU019674; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:23:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8OMNhuo019501 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:23:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 73522 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2006 22:23:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Tbk8HoH/qYc4Xl4YB8+Prt45CXbBRJCsjL/PRvJJaCCrexe0KQmI24N8Eq8IENf9bDRsd0o+7Z5zo2BBpOPgHSb5owqJmWgd3S9hx7Q6DHDSrV7OMczY1HiAvco7pnL49aescOXZTAEKIxnQKF2qzyZeA7+1HxtA5cocGT7oc24= ; Message-ID: <20060924222336.73520.qmail@web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.37.216.168] by web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:23:36 PDT Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:23:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451705BB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:25:03 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c92d2378-e173-4542-94c7-eee4715ab857 Status: RO Sooooooo true. Nice to be able to use that 'creative license' clause isn't it :-) Kelly Grant wrote: The website that was posted gave us many answers... Cunt - "Use of cunt as term of abuse for a woman is a 20th century sense. >From Frederic Manning's 1929 The Middle Parts of Fortune: 'What's the cunt want to come down 'ere buggering us about for, 'aven't we done enough bloody work in th' week?" So no, the word used is not appropriate for the time, and yes, if we have access to a website like this one, surely the writers of the show did too. But it's not really worth arguing over...producers of TV and movies are going to do what they like with costume and language...bummer, but true. Kelly Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Dr. Seuss Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. Ralph Waldo Emerson --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 18:26:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMQ1iG011819 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:26:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OMPwoA005381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:26:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMPjIJ073731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:25:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMPirY022252; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s24.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s24.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.96]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMPfEt022082 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.99]) by bay0-omc1-s24.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:25:36 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:25:36 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 207.46.10.123 by by121fd.bay121.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:25:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.222.128.141] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20060924222336.73520.qmail@web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "Kelly Grant" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:25:35 -0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2006 22:25:36.0069 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B3D3750:01C6E028] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451705F6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:26:01 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 65c74264-e393-49a7-a673-2e8b70d64b94 Status: RO Gack! Yes... Kelly >From: Chris >Reply-To: Historical Costume >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood >Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:23:36 -0700 (PDT) > >Sooooooo true. Nice to be able to use that 'creative license' clause isn't >it :-) > >Kelly Grant wrote: > > >The website that was posted gave us many answers... > >Cunt - "Use of cunt as term of abuse for a woman is a 20th century sense. > >From Frederic Manning's 1929 The Middle Parts of Fortune: > >'What's the cunt want to come down 'ere buggering >us about >for, 'aven't we done enough bloody work in th' >week?" > > > >So no, the word used is not appropriate for the time, and yes, if we have >access to a website like this one, surely the writers of the show did too. > >But it's not really worth arguing over...producers of TV and movies are >going to do what they like with costume and language...bummer, but true. > >Kelly > > > > >Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't >matter and those who matter don't mind. > Dr. Seuss > >Our greatest glory is not in never failing, >but in rising up every time we fail. >Ralph Waldo Emerson > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ >countries) for 2¢/min or less. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 18:40:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMeQGb012157 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:40:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8OMeM6T005245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:40:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMdvoJ078503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMdtxW042126; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:39:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OMdpwX041912 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:39:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.386.c5557e2 (60432) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by ciaaol-d01.mail.aol.com (v112_r1.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLD011-ec104517092f255; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: <005d01c6df21$ebbf85b0$3dad4744@VAIO> Message-Id: <86851c3adcdf02cf8b77b400c122f776@aol.com> From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:42 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45170956.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:40:26 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 264181be-3e10-4dde-97eb-94bb4f50b5ce Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8OMeQGb012157 Status: RO I have friends who love Deadwood's costumes but watch it with the sound OFF. They don't appreciate the language, either. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Sep 24, 2006, at 1:41 PM, kelly grant wrote: > > I think that if they were so willing to get the costumes right, they > would have gotten the language right too...sorry, didn't get to see > much of this series, was too put off by the extreme use of VERY modern > foul language! > > Kelly > > >> I can think of one program, or a series of programs, that may have >> gotten it right. I'm thinking of Deadwood, the series on HBO >> following the history of the Dakota Territory mining camp, Deadwood, >> set in 1879 and on. What impressed me was the extensive research that >> was done on the show that is reflected in the sets and, to my >> untrained eye, the costumes. What is everyone else's opinion of this >> show? >> >> Marjorie >> >> Marjorie Gilbert >> author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England >> www.marjoriegilbert.net >> Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown >> http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 19:31:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8ONV8vk013434 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:31:08 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8ONV418023829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OI99EG052356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:43:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OHx285020728; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:59:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8OHwv67020314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:59:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:17368 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GRYFk-0005D5-5Q for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:58:56 -0500 Message-ID: <07a701c6e003$19247060$7e00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> <005701c6dfac$0f505650$6400a8c0@momlaptop> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes/fashion history classes in college Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:58:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45171538.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:31:08 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: bbfd837c-7e7c-439d-8cc3-6aacd7aa1ed8 Status: RO It sounds like you have a great teaching approach, Penny. Though it's very different, it reminds me of the way my favorite history professor, Mr. Butler, gave tests. (Mind you, he didn't start being my favorite until the day AFTER I was done with his classes!) On test day, we were to come in, sit down, and spend the whole time writing everything we knew about what he'd taught since the last test. That's it--just tell him what you know about the subject, and if you know something he didn't teach, all the better. If you left before time was up, you were an absolute idiot. Annoying at the time; brilliant in hindsight. This is the professor who came up with the idea of "Tales from the Crypt," where each student in the class chose or was assigned a headstone from the local, reportedly haunted historic cemetary; they researched that person's life, then dressed up as them, stood by their headstone, and gave a 5-10 minute 1st person presentation to a regional audience on Halloween. (I was Nurse Canant, the mysterious CW nurse buried in the confederate soldier section. There was much fake blood and ham acting by a friend in my presentation.) Really, you had to either love this guy, or hate him! (For those of you who were teenagers in the 90s, several members of Blind Melon were dedicated Butler Boys, which gave me a distaste for their music until I suddenly discovered that _I_ was a Butler Boy as well.) -E "Nostalgia" House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 20:27:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0RvqN014653 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:27:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P0RqJv016721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:27:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0R90t012091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:27:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0R4lw094407; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:27:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (lightening.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0R08g094327 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:27:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail1.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2D993759D4 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:26:59 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-122-112.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-122-112.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.122.112]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:26:58 +1000 Message-ID: <1159144018.45172252c6378@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:26:58 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume References: <20060924070000.D2E1F600@resin06.mta.everyone.net> In-Reply-To: <20060924070000.D2E1F600@resin06.mta.everyone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies (The Costume & I) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45172288.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:27:57 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 15cb54cf-c278-487b-b430-e657488c3e37 Status: RO > No movie with Yul Brenner could be "really awful". :o) > Although The King and I is not There is the story that Deborah Kerr complained to costumers about the rediculous width of the crins she was having to wear until being shown how even more rediculous some real crinolines of the period were, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 20:29:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0TEXt014677 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:29:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P0T7A3017125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:29:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0SNvG012467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:28:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0SMqb096388; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:28:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0SJvM096300 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:28:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.152.234] (helo=[192.168.0.3]) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GReKT-0003Z8-J7 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:28:14 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9034ca17c4e55a4bd5dfb57cb6a45e9a@ntw.net> References: <005d01c6df21$ebbf85b0$3dad4744@VAIO> <09a3d09cc5bcc90a6d255d6e1f667050@ntw.net> <9034ca17c4e55a4bd5dfb57cb6a45e9a@ntw.net> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:26:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc75af9516db1805fcc38b3d3c9db9d93a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.152.234 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451722D3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:29:14 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 43f3bb71-e0a8-40ad-aae4-9555b3c8bb73 Status: RO Note that I haven't actually seen Deadwood, so I don't know specifically how they are actually using language, so my comments below about Deadwood really do mean those "if"s... At 1:35 PM -0600 9/24/06, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >Well, as I said, I wondered about the frequency of it too. I doubt >your grandfather hung around in the same company as the guys on >Deadwood. Since we never (I don't think) see that word in writing >before the late twentieth century, how do we know how they really >talked? Do the writers have references to back up the usage (or >overusage) of foul language? Note that it isn't just the age of the _word_ used, but also whether that word was used in that _way_ in the relevant period. For example, if Deadwood has characters talking about men and women having sexual intercourse and these characters use a certain word in place of "have sexual intercourse" in their sentences, then that may be historically reasonable. However, if they have their characters using that same word as an expletive (e.g., "****!" exclaimed when they hit their thumb with a hammer), or as an intensifying adjective/adverb (e.g., "I hit my thumb with a ****ing hammer!"), that is an entirely different kettle of fish, and it is less likely that real people --even real "foul-mouthed" people-- of that time used those words in that way. Just as words themselves change over time, so to do how words are used. "Bad language" has grammar as well as vocabulary, and just like all other aspects of language, is time and (sub)culture dependant. Also, it is worth noting that we have experienced something of a "bad word" devaluation in recent decades. Even mid-century, "damn" was still a really scandalous word to say in polite company (as an expletive) -- only recently has that become G (or at least PG) rated, and previous generations of the "foul-mouthed" could have achieved the same effects exclaiming "Damn!" and complaining about a "damned hammer" as are now served (though with less and less effect) by using the modern sexual offensive words in the same manner. I have just remembered that I actually have a book relevant to this discussion _Swearing: A Social History of Foul Language, Oaths and Profanity in English_ by Geoffrey Hughes ( ) Interestingly, and not very surprisingly, Hughes notes that the insulting use of sexual terms (calling someone a ****er, a pr***, etc.) are first recorded only within the last century or so, with some (such as calling someone a "t*t") only showing up in record from around mid-century. Even with an assumption that the first written record post-dates by some time the first spoken usages, there is clearly a time difference in using such sexual terms vs. using excremental terms as insults (many of which were used in this way in the Middle Ages). Hughes also lists eight different categories of usage for a word, and has a table illustrating how (modernly) different words get used in different combinations of ways (with only one on his list, "bugger", being used in all 8 categories modernly). And, of course, which categories any given word gets used in is just as time dependent as anything else. For the curious, his 8 categories are: 1. personal: 'You ---!' 2. personal by reference: 'The ---!' 3. destinational: '--- off!' 4. cursing: '--- you!' 5. general expletive of anger, annoyance, frustration: '---!' 6. explicit expletive of anger, annoyance, frustration: '--- it!' 7. capacity for adjectival extension: '---ing' or '---y' 8. verbal usage: 'to --- about' Unfortunately, he doesn't give as detailed a time analysis for the words he examines the modern grammatical range of... Anyway, all of which is to say, if the swearing sounds modern -- that is, if the characters are swearing in essentially the same ways (in aggregate) as modern early 21st century people do, such that they sound like modern 21st century people swearing -- chances are that they are then _not_ using foul language as it would have been used in the real historical period, even by that era's most foulmouthed people. There are undoubtedly things done now that were not done then (and things done then that modernly we would not consider as offensive as it was considered then). To what degree they are off, however, would depend on exactly when Deadwood is set, and, of course, how they are using language in the program... Sharon, who would really like to find a book that more clearly presents both the time and grammar developments of various words... -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me! http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/ Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 20:36:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0a1Bf014813 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:36:01 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P0ZvwF022832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:36:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0Z2S4014708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:35:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0Z0UZ005749; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:35:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0Yuu8005630 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:34:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail1.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91534C263 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:34:53 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-122-112.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-122-112.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.122.112]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:34:53 +1000 Message-ID: <1159144493.4517242d1ef16@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:34:53 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies References: <367.d7aeca4.324759b2@aol.com> <200609241408.14486.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200609241408.14486.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4517246D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:36:01 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 72c0470b-c9ba-4398-980f-2dfd049bf791 Status: RO > > Somehow they managed to make everything look as though it was Such an off-centre look may be thier way of indicating past times or another era? For instnace, I am presently preparing a very bright, vivid movie with some 1970s flashbacks. Clear instructions for the cinematographer for the flashbacks is to keep things looking "flat" in spite of what I know to be true (I was there but don't tell anyone!) -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 20:39:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0dkqf014900 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:39:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P0dh7g022441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0dCRt015635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0dBsU011301; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cirrus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.92]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0d80L011220 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail1.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2AC1700FA for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:39:05 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-122-112.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-122-112.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.122.112]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:39:05 +1000 Message-ID: <1159144745.45172529a3692@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:39:05 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costumes/fashion history classes in college References: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> <005701c6dfac$0f505650$6400a8c0@momlaptop> <07a701c6e003$19247060$7e00a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <07a701c6e003$19247060$7e00a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4517254F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:39:46 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 5cd5cf33-291d-4ca0-81bd-aeeea448bb4b Status: RO > (For > those of you who were teenagers in the 90s, NOW I feel old, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 20:39:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0dnIS014903 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:39:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P0dkpM024297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:39:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0dO5O015696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0dOH4011571; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0dLjs011511 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:39:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.152.234] (helo=[192.168.0.3]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GReVD-0002BL-Ld for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:39:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:38:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc9ac5b0673b2c2803f978542d60fe68eb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.152.234 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45172552.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:39:49 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0e9394bc-ab30-4fbd-9a21-a7c4ecf41c04 Status: RO At 7:05 PM -0300 9/24/06, Kelly Grant wrote: >But it's not really worth arguing over...producers of TV and movies >are going to do what they like with costume and language...bummer, >but true. Who has been arguing over it? We can discuss what we want, regardless of what tv and movie producers do, and, likewise, we can voice opinions about what tv and movie producers choose to do, just as we can about anything else. Those who don't enjoy such discussions needn't participate, of course, but those who do wish to participate are going to do what they like... Just because (some) tv and movie producers don't know and don't want to know what really happened historically doesn't mean _we_ have to not be curious, too. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me! http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/ Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 20:55:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0tU4P015243 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:55:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P0tRM1030219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:55:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0shVb019570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:54:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0sfVr033103; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:54:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.225.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P0sc92032917 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:54:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy4@comcast.net) Received: from stuckis (c-71-207-16-152.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[71.207.16.152]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20060925005432b1300l7mrme>; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 00:54:33 +0000 Message-ID: <024901c6e03d$2b442170$9810cf47@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060924053513.29089.qmail@web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200609241415.15755.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:54:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451728FF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:55:30 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: b559ce82-6b6a-4d2d-abe7-1133ad235a80 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > On Sunday 24 September 2006 1:35 am, Melody Watts wrote: >> hmmm. what about " The Vikings" with Kirk Douglas,Tony ("yonda lies da >> castle of my Fadda") Curtis and Janet Leigh, all leather and fur and >> quasi >> med-evil looking dresses,made of some gawd awful shiny fabric,and chiffon >> headgear on Janet Leigh..... How about The Conqueror, with John Wayne? (I feel this Tartar woman is for me, and my blood says Take her!") Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 21:04:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P14ATO015413 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:04:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P147Yp000884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:04:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13Tmn022231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13S2D045364; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:03:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13LUW045215 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:03:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.152.234] (helo=[192.168.0.3]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GResT-0004Rl-It for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:03:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200609241406.57903.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> <200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com> <200609241406.57903.cathy@thyrsus.com> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:58:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc9f9a37181b6b44068554e683550bccec350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.152.234 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45172B07.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:04:10 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 9c8e571c-1c8e-4637-8324-275a1b4ad898 Status: RO At 2:06 PM -0400 9/24/06, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Sunday 24 September 2006 5:18 am, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: > > Other, of course, then the general modern movie fashion for basing > > historical film costuming on sf/fantasy costuming. (In my opinion, a > > study of the development of historical movie/tv costuming can't be > > done without considering and covering the developments in fantasy > > film/tv costuming -- most modern historicals owe more to Xena Warrior > > Princess and the like than any historical research for their > > costuming... And by this I really do mean there is a connection, not > > just that the costuming isn't as historically accurate as it could > > be.) > >Though there's also a decent argument that it's a waste of time and money to >devote historical costume research to a summer popcorn movie--which this >particular "King Arthur" definitely was. So that leaves the costume >department cribbing from the SF/Fantasy section--the other source of popcorn >movies..... It isn't just "summer popcorn" historical movies that get a great deal of their historical costuming ideas from sf/fantasy films/programs. From what I have seen, they are *all* doing it. From what I have observed, the two genres feed on each other across the board with regard to costuming (and hairstyles, etc.). Further, it should be noted that "King Arthur" was one of those historical films that went out of its way, both in marketing and in how the film itself was presented, to claim historical accuracy for itself. So, while a producer could make the argument that it would be a waste of time and money to research historical clothing, that argument would have been more than usually hypocritical, given the money spent elsewhere in the budget combined with the claims being made for the movie. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me! http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/ Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 21:04:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P14Amv015412 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:04:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P147er031349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:04:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13Ppp022200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:03:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13M1D045239; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:03:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13JcQ045147 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:03:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.152.234] (helo=[192.168.0.3]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GResQ-0004Rl-Ql for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:03:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:02:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc981906f070615897532acd7a975821f0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.152.234 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45172B07.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:04:10 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 447068a1-f917-46bf-9262-c52630e5dd60 Status: RO At 8:30 AM -0600 9/23/06, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: ... >costumes from movies, and not just good examples but some really bad >ones. For instance, I happened to see on tv a bit of an old movie >from the 1950s a couple weeks ago called "Princess of the Nile" >which took place in the Middle East and the costumes were so bad >they were really laughable. The women were wearing high spiked >heels for instance. So I'm wondering if you all can name some >other old movies with really anachronistic or just plain wrong >historical costumes. Three movies that illustrate how movie costumes aren't about actual history but rather modern ideas (whether those modern ideas are about modern or historical fashion) are _Brigadoon_, _Rob Roy_, and TFWNSNBU**. Taken together, there are some interesting similarities and contrasts in the films approaches and ideas about historical costuming. Particularly fascinating to me is what the three films reveal about the changes in popular ideas about what historical clothing ought to look like. (The modern fashion is for unkempt fantasy savages, quite a change from Brigadoon.) Interestingly, _Brigadoon_, for all its straight out of the 1950s women's clothing, actually manages to get it's Scottish men's clothing a lot more historically accurate than Mel "They really did that" Gibson's flick, despite the much hyped (and publicized) specially woven tartans and similar promotional copy efforts. Mind you, getting Scottish clothing a lot more accurate than a Mel Gibson's film isn't exactly saying much... ;-) And, of course, part of that is probably because, unlike Mel's film, Brigadoon (and Rob Roy) are actually set in a period (or at least from a period) when historically men were dressed in a form of the well known popular stereotypes of Scottish clothing. Another potential factor that probably works both for and against Brigadoon is that it was made before the latest major wave of Celtic Romanticism... Sharon **That Film Whose Name Shall Not Be Uttered -- that is, the one with Mel Gibson supposedly portraying William Wallace. -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me! http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/ Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 21:12:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1CavN015538 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:12:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P1CWjB003660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:12:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1Bppp024732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:11:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1BonJ056669; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:11:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1BkvA056501 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c44.390e85d (40522) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:11:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:11:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45172D00.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:12:36 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7f209448-7317-4e38-8047-edaf1eacb6e8 Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:56:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, goofy4@comcast.net writes: The Conqueror, with John Wayne? ( Said "conqueror" is Genghis Khan, right? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 21:16:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1GFA4015611 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:16:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P1GCtc002770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:16:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1FZXN025401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:15:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1FZi5061729; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:15:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1FVdx061530 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:15:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.409.3b183300 (40522) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:15:15 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <409.3b183300.324887a3@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:15:15 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45172DDC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:16:15 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 3632827e-b570-4bf3-a1e9-161c37525c3e Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 9:03:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org writes: It isn't just "summer popcorn" historical movies that get a great deal of their historical costuming ideas from sf/fantasy films/programs. Someone just mentioned "Hollywood and History." It considers movies by historic eras, ending with the future, and part of the discussion is how future films often seem to borrow from classical Greek and Roman styles. So you have sf borrowing from history, then history borrowing from sf, which already borrowed from history, ad infinitum (or is that ad nauseam)? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 21:37:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1bCZn015986 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:37:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P1b8b0012470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:37:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1aFZa030218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:36:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1aBA0089523; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:36:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1a8hl089307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:36:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GRfO1-0004ph-JY; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:35:57 -0500 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:35:57 -0400 Message-ID: <20060924213557.2vu16mzkz51cwkw8@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:35:57 -0400 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451732C4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:37:12 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: baab85a5-cba9-4c34-9216-dc80bae1afd9 Status: RO Quoting AnnBWass@aol.com: > > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:56:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > goofy4@comcast.net writes: > > The Conqueror, with John Wayne? ( > > > Said "conqueror" is Genghis Khan, right? > Wasn't there one about The Vikings and Genghis Kahn? susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 21:48:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1mW6q016190 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:48:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P1mSYA017658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:48:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1liii032887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:47:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1lgXr006171; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:47:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1ld6b006112 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m235.in-tch.com [216.166.191.235]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k8P1a0Q08690 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000c01c6e045$bb8ec8e0$ebbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060924194155.62740.qmail@web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com><002801c6e024$1c904820$69bfa6d8@pavilion> <8d618cf2ae2e02a42a6c360a57fbc5c4@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:55:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4517356D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:48:32 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: bccf015c-c969-4566-81f7-f1b37abcda40 Status: RO I can see how that would be jarring to a person's sensibilities, but then, I haven't seen any of the shows. I have had a similar experience with other films, though! ;o) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood > Except that the rest of the language is quite old fashioned. I like > that they went for that kind of realistic speech, and it seems a bit > anachronistic that they combine that with all the profanity, unless > people of that ilk really tended to use it that much back then. > > On Sep 24, 2006, at 3:55 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > Mine, either (well, at least not the one I knew...I think that man was > > *born* in a 3-piece suit!) > > I haven't seen any of these Deadwood episodes, so I'm not exactly sure > > which > > phrases y'all are trying to skate genteelly around, but it occurs to > > me that > > maybe, in what seems to have been a concerted effort for nitty-gritty > > realism, that the writers/people in charge went with words that would > > convey > > to a modern audience what the swear words from back then actually > > would have > > been? Almost like a translation? > > --Sue, taking a break from garden-digging and bulb planting... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chris" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood > > > > > >> Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a single > > swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but you've > > got > > to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the > > quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and mostly > > uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with > >> > >> A site of possible interest: > >> > >> http://www.wordorigins.org > >> > >> There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about > >> in my > > re-enacting! > >> > >> kelly grant wrote: > >> I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it > >> was > > the > >> word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian > >> words > >> were used that frequently at that time! > >> > >> I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of > >> those > >> words at any point in his life. > >> > >> Kelly > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > >> To: "Historical Costume" > >> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM > >> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood > >> > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! > >> Small > > Business. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 21:51:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1pYbQ016237 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:51:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P1pVjQ019559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:51:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1pEid033809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:51:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1pDKl010822; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:51:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1p9RM010581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:51:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8P2jDiS012159 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:45:13 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:51:47 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609242151.47153.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45173623.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:51:34 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 6494e098-ffae-491c-a459-d73b39e94b35 Status: RO On Sunday 24 September 2006 9:02 pm, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: [snip] > Interestingly, _Brigadoon_, for all its straight out of the 1950s > women's clothing, actually manages to get it's Scottish men's > clothing a lot more historically accurate than Mel "They really did > that" Gibson's flick, despite the much hyped (and publicized) > specially woven tartans and similar promotional copy efforts. Mind > you, getting Scottish clothing a lot more accurate than a Mel > Gibson's film isn't exactly saying much... ;-) I'm not surprised. One of the major points made in "Hollywood and History" is that women's costumes (particularly the female lead) tend to be heavily influenced (if not totally based on) current fashion trends of the day in which the movie is actually made, while men's costumes (even those of the male lead) tend to hew closer to the known historical truth. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 21:57:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1vgg5016327 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:57:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P1vcxT022132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1vO7M034967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1vMX7018849; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:57:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P1vIcb018683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:57:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8P2pM2H012282 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:51:22 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:57:56 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk> <200609241406.57903.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609242157.56456.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8P1vIcb018683 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45173792.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:57:42 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 958cfeb6-f72b-4e06-b0ba-de8e8e25a7b8 Status: RO On Sunday 24 September 2006 8:58 pm, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: > At 2:06 PM -0400 9/24/06, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >On Sunday 24 September 2006 5:18 am, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: > > > Other, of course, then the general modern movie fashion for basing > > > historical film costuming on sf/fantasy costuming. (In my opinion, a > > > study of the development of historical movie/tv costuming can't be > > > done without considering and covering the developments in fantasy > > > film/tv costuming -- most modern historicals owe more to Xena Warrior > > > Princess and the like than any historical research for their > > > costuming... And by this I really do mean there is a connection, not > > > just that the costuming isn't as historically accurate as it could > > > be.) > > > >Though there's also a decent argument that it's a waste of time and money > > to devote historical costume research to a summer popcorn movie--which > > this particular "King Arthur" definitely was. So that leaves the costume > > department cribbing from the SF/Fantasy section--the other source of > > popcorn movies..... > > It isn't just "summer popcorn" historical movies that get a great > deal of their historical costuming ideas from sf/fantasy > films/programs. From what I have seen, they are *all* doing it. From > what I have observed, the two genres feed on each other across the > board with regard to costuming (and hairstyles, etc.). >From my point of view, the most recent mainstream historical movie was "Master and Commander," and it doesn't display these problems, so far as I could tell. (Though I admit to not possessing encylopedic knowledge of naval uniforms for that period.) But if you are thinking of films like "Troy" (which I'm convinced was costumed primarily from the local Indian bazaar) and "Alexander" (Angelina Jolie in a one-shouldered spandex "chiton"--really!), I'm inclined to agree with you. > Further, it should be noted that "King Arthur" was one of those > historical films that went out of its way, both in marketing and in > how the film itself was presented, to claim historical accuracy for > itself. Which ticked me off, in retrospect, though I didn't particularly take the claim seriously because I'd seen the previews. :-) > So, while a producer could make the argument that it would be > a waste of time and money to research historical clothing, that > argument would have been more than usually hypocritical, given the > money spent elsewhere in the budget combined with the claims being > made for the movie. Since I don't know what "King Arthur's" budget was, I can't really respond to that. > Sharon -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 22:36:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P2aSni017271 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:36:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P2aMka009271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:36:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P2Zqq0043719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P2ZoPg071056; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:35:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P2ZkI8070951 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:35:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.162] (pm5-162.eos.net [205.133.149.162]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id k8P2ZjHK000172 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:35:45 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:19:48 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200609250103.k8P13Otm045265@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: bad costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451740A6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:36:28 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: cf99bb9d-6d07-4ad9-a5f1-a5245101b319 Status: RO on 9/24/06 9:03 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > **That Film Whose Name Shall Not Be Uttered -- that is, the one with > Mel Gibson supposedly portraying William Wallace. Oh, I thought you meant the one with what's-his-name from "Dances with Wolves" about Robin Hood. That's the one WE don't say. Horrible costumes, along with horrible everything else. Although they reportedly bred special historically accurate cattle... Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 23:03:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P33BhH017916 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:03:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P338BU018122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:03:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P32Ii3049245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:02:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P32F3P005357; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:02:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp7.america.net (qsmtp7.america.net [69.60.160.250]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P32Bq9005295 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from [65.125.64.149] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp7.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GRgjT-0005wY-9y for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:02:11 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.0.20060924215718.019f7ed8@justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:02:08 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bad costume movies In-Reply-To: References: <200609250103.k8P13Otm045265@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451746EC.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:03:11 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c53370d0-550f-4097-998c-29b092b7f898 Status: RO At 09:19 PM 9/24/2006, you wrote: >on 9/24/06 9:03 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com at >h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > > **That Film Whose Name Shall Not Be Uttered -- that is, the one with > > Mel Gibson supposedly portraying William Wallace. > > >Oh, I thought you meant the one with what's-his-name from "Dances with >Wolves" about Robin Hood. That's the one WE don't say. Horrible costumes, >along with horrible everything else. Although they reportedly bred special >historically accurate cattle... All I can do is quote Dumbledore: "Always use the proper name for things. Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself." --GRIN-- (With strong pushing from the hubby) Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 23:30:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P3UQcL018443 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:30:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P3UMLN029050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P3U4Tr055700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:30:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P3U2nQ042331; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:30:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web36603.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36603.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8P3Tvph042122 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:29:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 83116 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Sep 2006 03:29:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wOE1K74q5OZ6i3Ernl/nnrbXQse2PoldE7wCHCXv82eayjrAum3zrSIU1OHkPIw9X5D8p7Kjia54LWlJrAefFhrhrdtQbiKDMF+hWOR7Ll1kwS7/6ROtCnXenYRsL1I+a2oUfm/W+CO+L+9k3VeAY6Efi9AaaZALculcrMYFTYs= ; Message-ID: <20060925032952.83114.qmail@web36603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.160.123.129] by web36603.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:29:52 PDT Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:29:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies -----the Duke with a eye job To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45174D4E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:30:26 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4c8ce72d-f73b-447a-ae3f-c9e69a91bc70 Status: RO oh yeah, they did some weird make-up on John Waynes eyes (It looks like they stuck a rubberband across his eyelids) to make him look Mongolian........what a film! too funny now--very "serious then... AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:56:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, goofy4@comcast.net writes: The Conqueror, with John Wayne? ( Said "conqueror" is Genghis Khan, right? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 24 23:42:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P3gfce018687 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:42:41 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8P3gcbn026842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:42:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P3gEQ0057988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:42:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P3gCM0057272; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:42:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts20.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P3g9tm057208 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from smtp1.sympatico.ca ([209.226.175.148]) by tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with SMTP id <20060925034209.YNTS16051.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:42:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.11 (webedge20-101-194-20030622) From: Sheridan To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:42:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060925034209.YNTS16051.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp1.sympatico.ca> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4517502E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:42:41 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 6c3dc272-bb17-4e67-8254-8eaa1c3f95fd Status: RO > > From: AnnBWass@aol.com > Date: 2006/09/24 Sun PM 09:11:37 EST > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > > > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:56:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > goofy4@comcast.net writes: > > The Conqueror, with John Wayne? ( > > > Said "conqueror" is Genghis Khan, right? > > Ann Wass Yes indeedy! Every time I see this movie I think to myself: 'Better round up the yurts 'cause the Tatars are startin' to circle' Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 06:25:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAPbYL018066 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:25:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PAPX17001002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:25:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAN0A6013147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:23:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAMo0D026500; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:22:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAMk9E026312 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:22:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c3d.40a5ef2 (30739) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:22:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4517AE9D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:25:37 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 62bfd8ca-2159-49b4-ace2-42f644737cdf Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 9:51:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: One of the major points made in "Hollywood and History" is that women's costumes (particularly the female lead) tend to be heavily influenced (if not totally based on) current fashion trends of the day in which the movie is actually made, And also that the female extras' costumes might actually be better than the leads, because of this--that was certainly the case in the 1958 "Buccaneer." Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 06:27:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PARTmi018958 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:27:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PARPM7011000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:27:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAR97l013908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:27:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAR7Mc032448; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAR3LS032222 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:27:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c3e.40a4383 (30739) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:26:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:26:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4517AF0D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:27:29 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: e03827dd-e383-4b4a-8b53-0475cd71aacf Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 11:42:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca writes: 'Better round up the yurts 'cause the Tatars are startin' to circle' LOL! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 06:47:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAlZpb022873 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:47:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PAlWc4007799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:47:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAjnKk017864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:45:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAjmol058255; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:45:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PAjiuH058042 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy4@comcast.net) Received: from stuckis (c-71-207-16-152.hsd1.pa.comcast.net[71.207.16.152]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060925104539m14003o8aje>; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:45:39 +0000 Message-ID: <028501c6e08f$bf18b350$9810cf47@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:45:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4517B3C4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:47:35 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: f145c6a8-c6fd-45fb-9b11-322fd23fa7fd Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:56:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > goofy4@comcast.net writes: > > The Conqueror, with John Wayne? ( > > > Said "conqueror" is Genghis Khan, right? > > Ann Wass I believe so. I've never seen the movie, but the few photos I have seen from it made me shudder! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 08:18:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PCIVr9025233 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:18:31 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PCIRee014283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:18:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13xDb022484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13wsr046074; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:03:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8P13Ng5045251 for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:03:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.152.234] (helo=[192.168.0.3]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GResV-0004Rl-BP for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:03:23 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6c8cecbeb006bf730413a30338f36511@ntw.net> References: <20060924194155.62740.qmail@web31006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002801c6e024$1c904820$69bfa6d8@pavilion> <8d618cf2ae2e02a42a6c360a57fbc5c4@ntw.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060924230942.031dba78@suziclarke.co.uk> <6c8cecbeb006bf730413a30338f36511@ntw.net> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:42:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc6e9a41ab45bcfed749cc22d455f8d41c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.152.234 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4517C913.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:18:31 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 727b556d-fa51-40ad-a3ac-abc5db7d6cef Status: RO At 4:20 PM -0600 9/24/06, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >If you grandfather hated swearing, then he must have heard it from >others who did use it at that time. Not necessarily -- he could have hated what he heard much more modernly. Also, even if he did hear swearing when he was younger, what he heard could have been (and probably was) different from what is used modernly. (Heck, what I hear modernly is much, much different from what I heard when I was younger, and I'm only 41!) Language changes over time, and swearing is language. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me! http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/ Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 09:44:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PDiMeY027072 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:44:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PDhvNa025162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:44:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PDhISZ067410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:43:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PDh7ju013041; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu (kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu [169.147.4.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PDh3Ow012738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:43:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from kumc-smtpout (mithril@localhost) by kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu with ESMTP id k8PDgvN60252 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:42:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout [10.120.1.11]) by kumc-mpg3.kumc.edu ([10.120.1.74]); 25 Sep 2006 08:42:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:42:57 -0500 References: <200609250103.k8P13Otl045265@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:42:46 -0500 Message-ID: <45179686020000A60000501B@kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu> In-Reply-To: <200609250103.k8P13Otl045265@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4517DD33.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Status: RO Three movies that illustrate how movie costumes aren't about actual history but rather modern ideas (whether those modern ideas are about modern or historical fashion) are _Brigadoon_, _Rob Roy_, and TFWNSNBU**. Interestingly, _Brigadoon_, for all its straight out of the 1950s women's clothing, actually manages to get it's Scottish men's clothing a lot more historically accurate than Mel "They really did that" Gibson's flick, despite the much hyped (and publicized) specially woven tartans and similar promotional copy efforts. Sharon **That Film Whose Name Shall Not Be Uttered -- that is, the one with Mel Gibson supposedly portraying William Wallace. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is what really bugs me, when a production claims to be historically accurate but so glaringly misses the mark. Also I have mellowed a bit with age and at times can grudgingly forgive a production that does not claim to be historically accurate. In part this is probably because I have also recently been exposed to some of the theatrical attitudes about period costuming. I helped costume a production of Moliere's The Miser this summer for one of our oldest community theaters. I knew we couldn't afford to be period (and in fact pushed it out about 100 years for pattern availability) so I was calling it period 'style'. The director still insisted on calling it period costumeing and we had several good natured arguments about the semantics of our chosen terminologies :). And another worst costume movie: the 1953 version of 'Knights of the Round Table'. Hmmmm, another Robert Taylor movie..... Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 10:49:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PEnjZs028445 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:49:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PEnfU3017934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PEmnJK090528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:48:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PEmhE9005790; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:48:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PEmdWI005681 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:48:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from dm27.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D192403EA for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:48:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-Id: <20060925074839.E354106C@resin05.mta.everyone.net> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:48:39 -0700 From: " Lalah" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRFF+xHpo3/HgEAAAAB,2f7433a1849077d3675af8f5a9fca156 X-Originating-Ip: [152.163.100.70] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4517EC85.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:49:45 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 5241b06f-2b4a-4883-9baf-8a0c54643e27 Status: RO I have thought about this business of costumes reflecting fashion at the time they were made before. If you look at a "period" film from the 40's the costumes look 40's and so on. But now that I think about it more seriously, I suspect is they are done that way to appeal to the majority of the audience who are NOT well informed about the clothing of other eras. They are trying to make a movie that will sell, not one that is historically accurate. At least that is the way I see it. Does that make it right? No, but it makes them money and that is why they are in business. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 10:49:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PEnjh7028444 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:49:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PEnfkr003499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PEmgKU090458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:48:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PEmSds005373; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:48:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:UYoUEauawA76f1ExxfgG8wXGWEHwDRqG@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PEmMIc005225 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:48:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.80] (206-124-5-80.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.80]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8PEfah02412 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:41:36 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <45179686020000A60000501B@kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu> References: <200609250103.k8P13Otl045265@net.indra.com> <45179686020000A60000501B@kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:48:20 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4517EC85.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:49:45 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 73e221fe-685d-4053-bdd9-9a5009c4af6e Status: RO On Sep 25, 2006, at 7:42 AM, Catherine Kinsey wrote: > That is what really bugs me, when a production claims to be > historically accurate but so glaringly misses the mark. Also I have > mellowed a bit with age and at times can grudgingly forgive a > production > that does not claim to be historically accurate. > > In part this is probably because I have also recently been exposed to > some of the theatrical attitudes about period costuming. I helped > costume a production of Moliere's The Miser this summer for one of our > oldest community theaters. I knew we couldn't afford to be period (and > in fact pushed it out about 100 years for pattern availability) so I > was > calling it period 'style'. The director still insisted on calling it > period costumeing and we had several good natured arguments about the > semantics of our chosen terminologies :). > Since I am a theatrical costume designer, I don't mind stylistic deviations from history. God knows we see more Shakespeare productions in costumes from other periods than we see them in Elizabethan dress. But the whole movie must exhibit the same style then, not just the costumes. I think that is actually one of the reasons I work in theatre and not film, in order to be able to create a stylistic production from a conceptual viewpoint. You don't see that often on film. I don't very often design plays that need to be totally historically accurate. When you get into your modern realism it becomes more important, but even then there are exceptions. If I am trying to be historically accurate, which I am at the moment, working on a realistic play set in the 1950s, it always bothers me to put a costume piece on stage that shouldn't be there. Like, in this case, men wearing crepe soled shoes. You tell them they have to supply their own dress shoes, and that's what they think dress shoes are these days. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 11:01:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PF13ZA028654 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:01:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PF10qZ010395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:01:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PF0RCl095335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PF0O8U022784; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:00:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PCrX3h040843 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:53:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0J6500KVAFVSHF60@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:53:26 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies In-reply-to: <028501c6e08f$bf18b350$9810cf47@Stuckis> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4517EF2C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:01:03 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 804ed74b-ddab-458e-8fcf-d47c489dd6d6 Status: RO One of the sad things that came out of that movie is not the costumes. I read somewhere that all of the lead actors -- and who knows how many of the crew-- died of cancer. I think it was filmed in somewhere that they had been doing nuclear testing. Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dianne & Greg Stucki Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 6:46 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:56:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > goofy4@comcast.net writes: > > The Conqueror, with John Wayne? ( > > > Said "conqueror" is Genghis Khan, right? > > Ann Wass I believe so. I've never seen the movie, but the few photos I have seen from it made me shudder! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:06:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PH6MfH031612 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:06:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PH6Jqu030863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:06:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PH5K7p035729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PH5CoR082707; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:05:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PH56ep082488 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:05:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.566.6108214 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:04:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <566.6108214.3249663a@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:04:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45180C8B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:06:22 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: dee96b93-31a8-4454-b5e2-1b65d93b304c Status: RO In a message dated 9/23/2006 10:03:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: I just thought of one myself---Giant. It is supposed to start out in the 1920's, I believe, only it's really hard to tell by the costumes. They may have added a dropped waist or two to the otherwise obviously 1950s style dresses. I think I read something about the designer's approach to the costuming at one time, but I can't recall what it was now. Anyone else know? ********************* I worked once for Moss Mabry, who did Liz's things fro many a movie. He once said to me that historic costuming was easy and a bore because you just copied portraits! He thought only modern costuming [as in fashion design] was worth while. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:11:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHBeOq031704 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:11:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PHBaNd010367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:11:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHA8ST036351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:10:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHA2dT088356; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:10:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PH9lbO087981 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:09:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.53d.22950380 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:09:32 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <53d.22950380.3249674b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:09:31 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45180DC8.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:11:40 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 93ac9d53-6cbc-4e59-a901-f8350331a7e7 Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 5:32:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org writes: most modern historicals owe more to Xena Warrior Princess and the like than any historical research for their costuming... God! Xena is OK because she's a complete fantasy [for some in more ways than one...wink wink] But what about the other show these producers did: HERCULES! Yikes! It looks like Xena! Where the hell are the Greeks?????? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:12:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHCo34031732 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:12:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PHClbv001342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:12:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHCGWq036652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:12:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHC1BM090395; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:12:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHBVmC089814 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:11:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.46c.17e4b34 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:11:23 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <46c.17e4b34.324967bb@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:11:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45180E0F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:12:50 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: a18a59a6-c2ea-44ff-b270-93c23c1477f7 Status: RO I find Deadwood...though beautiful...a bit over designed. Good show, however. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:19:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHJlPG031871 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:19:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PHJhTE009216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:19:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHJLpd037517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:19:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHJFwa098507; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:19:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHJBlg098301 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:19:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c21.531dd5b (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:19:03 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:19:02 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45180FAF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:19:47 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: b3c14b19-b3ff-4d02-ab8a-0b9bf45613b6 Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 6:24:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, emeraldepona@yahoo.com writes: But it's not really worth arguing over...producers of TV and movies are going to do what they like with costume and language...bummer, but true. ******************** As they should, since it's entertainment, not a museum exhibit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:21:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHLgji031903 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:21:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PHLc76017565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:21:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHL9jW037923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:21:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHL6wl000857; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:21:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHKwa6000596 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:21:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c3d.4146c57 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:20:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:20:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45181022.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:21:42 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 453d0cb2-e812-4451-9b03-3dd08006047f Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 6:40:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pasovasz@aol.com writes: I have friends who love Deadwood's costumes but watch it with the sound OFF. They don't appreciate the language, either. ********************* That's nuts! I don't understand being offended by language...in a whore house. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:25:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHPP7g032005 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:25:25 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PHPLdD013934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:25:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHOjqE038420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:24:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHOXD6004784; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHO9Ug004231 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:24:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.430.6fd83d2 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <430.6fd83d2.32496aa1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:23:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies (The Costume & I) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45181101.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:25:25 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 325e5abb-e642-40bd-9407-6461240b0042 Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:28:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, stilskin@netspace.net.au writes: until being shown how even more rediculous some real crinolines of the period were, *************** For balls, but not everyday wear. Of course she IS at court. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:32:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHWYF1032145 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:32:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PHWUUi019562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:32:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHVXqY039338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHVOwn012292; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:31:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHVEMn011978 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:31:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.385.b36e079 (30738) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:30:53 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <385.b36e079.32496c4d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:30:53 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451812AF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:32:34 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 98b3d8d9-1dde-4439-b04a-c3bac4f602ef Status: RO In a message dated 9/25/2006 1:11:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: HERCULES! Yikes! It looks like Xena! Where the hell are the Greeks?????? Yeah, but gotta love them leather pants! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:46:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHkdC8032433 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:46:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PHkZ3l023872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:46:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHkA3U041163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:46:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHk4CX027424; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:46:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHjxT0027259 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:46:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c46.3c9ffcc (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:45:44 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:45:43 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451815FB.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:46:39 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 34e906b6-712a-46c9-9f04-fd39f5ddd3a1 Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2006 9:57:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: But if you are thinking of films like "Troy" (which I'm convinced was costumed primarily from the local Indian bazaar) and "Alexander" (Angelina Jolie in a one-shouldered spandex "chiton"--really!), I'm inclined to agree with you. ******************** "Troy" was not great [one of my fave designers though, Bob Ringwood. He designed "Dune". But maybe he was having a bad day on "Troy"] Still there's a consistency to the look. The movie I love to hate the costumes in is "Bram Stoker's Dracula" Dreadful...doubly dreadful! Some lov-er-ly bustles gowns....in 1898???? [they emblazon that date in 20 foot numbers on the screen at the beginning] The men are all over the place...sometimes in one costume. Dracula 1st looks like a Chinese opera singer in drag, then once in London, he looks like Leon Russell, Then he rises out of his coffin in a Gustav Klimt robe....and that Kabuki costume Lucy is supposed to get married in.... It was all over the place. There was no logic or center to the very concept of the costumes. I don't get it. A big fat F for the designer. She gets an F instead of F- because she can design a beautiful gown. Then there's "Vanity Fair"...that one gets the minus. Yuk! Of course historical accuracy rarely works for film or theatre. Design elements have to enhance the concept of the show. Even "Dangerous Liaisons" has some aspects that were tweaked to make otherwise accurate costumes look "better". The only film [films...it's really two] I've seen where accuracy really worked is "Little Dorrit" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 13:56:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHuxux032622 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:56:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PHut7R007353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:56:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHt6nJ042422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:55:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHsm6Q036829; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PHsOD6036307 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:54:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2006 18:53:55 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAANS0F0WBT4ojAgIHAgwHBh0 Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:2513 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GRudL-0004kH-EV for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:52:47 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060925185102.031f63f0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:53:44 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45181867.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:56:59 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 28ad276f-ee4d-4c95-8d96-ffb6064fd5c4 Status: RO > > >"Troy" was not great [one of my fave designers though, Bob Ringwood. He >designed "Dune". But maybe he was having a bad day on "Troy"] Still >there's a >consistency to the look. > >The movie I love to hate the costumes in is >"Bram Stoker's Dracula" > >Dreadful...doubly dreadful! Some lov-er-ly bustles gowns....in 1898???? >[they emblazon that date in 20 foot numbers on the screen at the >beginning] The >men are all over the place...sometimes in one costume. Dracula 1st >looks like a > Chinese opera singer in drag, then once in London, he looks like Leon >Russell, Then he rises out of his coffin in a Gustav Klimt >robe....and that Kabuki >costume Lucy is supposed to get married in.... > >It was all over the place. There was no logic or center to the very concept >of the costumes. I don't get it. A big fat F for the designer. She gets an F >instead of F- because she can design a beautiful gown. > >Then there's "Vanity Fair"...that one gets the minus. Yuk! > > >Of course historical accuracy rarely works for film or theatre. Design >elements have to enhance the concept of the show. Even "Dangerous >Liaisons" has >some aspects that were tweaked to make otherwise accurate costumes look >"better". The only film [films...it's really two] I've seen where >accuracy really >worked is "Little Dorrit" I thought "Dangerous Liasons" was one of the better costume movies - always excep[ting my personal bete noir Mr Malcovich, who was quoted as saying that he was wearing his costumes as if it was a pair of jeans, and it looked like it. Has the man never heard of "acting" as if you are a French nobleman of the 18th century? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 14:04:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PI40o4000317 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:04:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PI3uAT001255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:03:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PI36wf043750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PI2mWp044829; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:02:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PI2LgV044283 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c1.6d774cf6 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:01:18 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:01:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45181A0C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:04:00 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: e2778927-05d6-45c2-b834-132aa4026074 Status: RO In a message dated 9/25/2006 10:49:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lalahcatlady@netscape.com writes: But now that I think about it more seriously, I suspect is they are done that way to appeal to the majority of the audience who are NOT well informed about the clothing of other eras. ******************** Remember, the designers, actors and producers, directors and crews of the old films are all living in the time the film was made too. Their ideas are shaped by what is modern for that time they are in the thick of. They are not necessarily thinking about doing something the audience will like, but it's what THEY like and find attractive at the time too. Available fabrics and technologies of the period determine what can be done as well. A film like "Tom Jones" has great costumes that reflect the characters who wear them, but they are all made a la 1960's. The shapes and silhouettes and accessories are all very good, but the fabrics are 60's and the construction is 60's. Still, the designs themselves are appropriate and enhancing. You could use the same designs today....but choose better fabrics and cuts and eliminate the zippers up the back! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 14:25:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIPRJm000779 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:25:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PIPO25011645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:25:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIDnOo045414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:13:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIDhG5056416; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:13:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIDcaC056225 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:13:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.462.6151545 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:13:22 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <462.6151545.32497642@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:13:22 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45181F14.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:25:27 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 52a6bcfb-5a97-41dd-82b0-d5fbcec947bb Status: RO In a message dated 9/25/2006 1:56:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: I thought "Dangerous Liasons" was one of the better costume movies - **************** It is yummy and delicious with chocolate sauce and a cherry! James Acheson, the designer, always demanded to see the research for whatever we were making for extras and bit players when I worked with him on "Last of the Mohicans". But if a polyester was "right" for the look he wanted, he'd use it [though I must say he prefers silks and linen]. He is concerned with character 1st of all. Glen Close's silk gowns are accurate to a degree. But, for instance, the French backs are cut to make them more flattering. Each set of pleats on each side of CB are cut separately. They are two long gores...wider at the bottom than the pleated up top. This makes her gown sweep up the stair more gracefully than the traditional straight panel....which you actually see in Michelle Pfeiffer's more modest gowns. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 14:27:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIRdAJ000818 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:27:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PIRa5e026343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:27:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIQJPG047291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:26:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIQ1U2069057; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:26:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PINMZD066663 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:23:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2006 19:22:05 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAEO5F0WBT4oiAgIHAgwHBh0 Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:2691 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GRv5f-000GLp-Ly for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:22:03 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060925191952.031cfea0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:22:02 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies In-Reply-To: <462.6151545.32497642@aol.com> References: <462.6151545.32497642@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45181F98.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:27:39 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: df29f254-c8f2-402f-a3dd-f10bae4a3c24 Status: RO At 19:13 25/09/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 9/25/2006 1:56:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: > >I thought "Dangerous Liasons" was one of the better costume movies - > > > >**************** > >It is yummy and delicious with chocolate sauce and a cherry! > >James Acheson, the designer, always demanded to see the research for >whatever we were making for extras and bit players when I worked >with him on "Last >of the Mohicans". But if a polyester was "right" for the look he >wanted, he'd >use it [though I must say he prefers silks and linen]. He is concerned with >character 1st of all. >Glen Close's silk gowns are accurate to a degree. But, for instance, the >French backs are cut to make them more flattering. Each set of >pleats on each >side of CB are cut separately. They are two long gores...wider at the bottom >than the pleated up top. This makes her gown sweep up the stair >more gracefully >than the traditional straight panel....which you actually see in Michelle >Pfeiffer's more modest gowns. Some of my colleagues I was at college with, learning how to make frocks, made most of the ladies' costume for that, and were specially chosen by James Acheson because of who had taught them and who had led the research at that college. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 14:33:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIXX15000934 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:33:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PIXTo7015954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:33:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIWjT8048262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:32:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIWR0t075217; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.192.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PIWHCp075002 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:32:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Colleen.McDonald@comcast.net) Received: from 67.168.178.66 ([67.168.178.66]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060925183211m14003q667e>; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:32:11 +0000 Received: from 192.150.22.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user colleen) by 67.168.178.66 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3345.192.150.22.5.1159209131.squirrel@67.168.178.66> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:32:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Colleen McDonald" To: h-costume@indra.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4-rc1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal References: In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1850's clothing - Park looking for seamstress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451820F9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:33:33 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d22f86ad-fd93-44a4-b27f-520e310c00e5 Status: RO This came through on another list I'm on and I thought there might be someone here interested. Please contact them directly, not me. Colleen "Jackson County Parks & Recreation in Blue Springs, Missouri is seeking a seamstress to make reproduction clothing on an as needed basis for our recreated living history village, "Missouri Town 1855." This would be a contract position for someone to make clothing at home and be paid on a piece by piece basis. The work would be very intermittent. Knowledge of 1850s era clothing would be very helpful. If interested contact Gordon Julich, Historic Sites Division, at (816) 503-4861 or gjulich@jacksongov.org" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 15:49:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PJnoKm002279 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:49:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PJnkac026282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:49:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PJmBIK058827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:48:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PJm6iq057412; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:48:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.america.net (qsmtp1.america.net [69.60.160.244]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PJKV3L028848 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:20:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from [65.125.64.149] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp1.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GRw0E-0006Iq-Fm for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:20:30 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.0.20060925141710.019c1288@justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:20:27 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costume movies) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451832DA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:49:50 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7faf5ba2-492b-423a-a612-cdc66e608402 Status: RO At 01:01 PM 9/25/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 9/25/2006 10:49:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >lalahcatlady@netscape.com writes: > >But now that I think about it more seriously, I suspect is they are done >that way to appeal to the majority of the audience who are NOT well informed >about the clothing of other eras. I was wondering... When did the drive for truly historical recreation really take off? As I understand it in the music world, performers only started trying to play "as it was originally/meant to be played" within the last 20 to 25 years. Is that also true for costume? Just wondering, this previous conversation tweaked my interest. Thanks ahead of time Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 16:57:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PKvLLi003447 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:57:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PKvIqi004302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:57:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PKuLig070697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:56:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PKu6bN036412; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:56:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PKtw9c036153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:56:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8PLo6xD013507 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:50:06 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:56:40 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609251656.40396.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451842AE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:57:21 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 57ac6f87-5db5-45f0-b225-1b6ee998bc4d Status: RO On Monday 25 September 2006 6:22 am, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/24/2006 9:51:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > > One of the major points made in "Hollywood and History" is > that women's costumes (particularly the female lead) tend to be heavily > influenced (if not totally based on) current fashion trends of the day in > which the movie is actually made, > > > And also that the female extras' costumes might actually be better than the > leads, because of this--that was certainly the case in the 1958 Yes, H&H says that that often was true. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 17:03:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PL30Bk003625 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:03:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PL2uND027124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:03:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PL29gW071966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:02:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PL263a043856; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:02:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PL1xRH043554 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:02:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2006 22:01:53 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAPLfF0WBTooiAgIHAgwHBh0 Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:2885 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GRxaK-0003w6-A6 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:01:52 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060925215755.031da8c8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:01:49 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costume movies) In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060925141710.019c1288@justinanimator.com> References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060925141710.019c1288@justinanimator.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45184401.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:03:00 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d1b63db2-4f0e-44cb-bc08-c67ec66877fc Status: RO At 20:20 25/09/2006, you wrote: >At 01:01 PM 9/25/2006, you wrote: >> >>In a message dated 9/25/2006 10:49:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>lalahcatlady@netscape.com writes: >> >>But now that I think about it more seriously, I suspect is they are done >>that way to appeal to the majority of the audience who are NOT well informed >>about the clothing of other eras. > >I was wondering... > >When did the drive for truly historical recreation really take off? > >As I understand it in the music world, performers only started >trying to play "as it was originally/meant to be played" within the >last 20 to 25 years. Not true in England. Early music was being played on original instruments when I was singing in the 60's. A gentleman called Thurston Dart, I believe, was instrumental (pun intended) in bringing "the real thing" to a wider audience. (Even then, it was not a very wide audience - I was privileged to see and hear some rather special early music people, including David Munrow and Christopher Hogwood of the Early Music Consort.) Suzi > Is that also true for costume? > >Just wondering, this previous conversation tweaked my interest. > >Thanks ahead of time >Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 17:05:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PL5Gah003682 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:05:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PL5CNA020566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:05:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PL4p5t072354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PL4mIl046772; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:04:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PL4g5G046555 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:04:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.504.66428ec (45780) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-R02 (mblk-r02.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.193]) by ciaaol-r05.mx.aol.com (v112_r1.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLR055-b2d44518445d57; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:04:29 -0400 References: <200609251801.k8PI0533042090@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:04:28 -0400 In-Reply-To: <200609251801.k8PI0533042090@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 19939 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by MBLK-R02.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.193) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:04:28 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8AEFD52EDC6AE-8D8-1755@MBLK-R02.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.193 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45184488.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:05:16 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d41c8c0e-012c-4a6e-8183-c95f6567b942 Status: RO And exactly when did the historical Hercules live? Come on -- mythology is the original sci-fi/fantasy! For my addition to the horrible costuming hall of shame, I'd like to submit several episodes of Charmed which involved traveling back in time. One of them, I think, was called "Viking vixens." I'll grant you, that show was in the scifi/fantasy category, but they could at least have made an effort! Tea Rose Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:09:31 EDT From: AlbertCat@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies God! Xena is OK because she's a complete fantasy [for some in more ways than one...wink wink] But what about the other show these producers did: HERCULES! Yikes! It looks like Xena! Where the hell are the Greeks?????? ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 17:17:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLHmup003902 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:17:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PLHjal014594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:17:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLHCHv074120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:17:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLHAWT062077; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLH6aY061878 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:17:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.bd3.4688fc8 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:16:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:16:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costume movies) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45184779.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:17:48 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 97b35004-65d5-41f2-8cfe-89228f0be1d3 Status: RO In a message dated 9/25/2006 3:49:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, maggie.gene@justinanimator.com writes: When did the drive for truly historical recreation really take off? ********************** I'd say it starts gaining momentum in the mid 60's. [I'm thinking film here... since that's what most people see] and firmly established by the mid 70's. I remember seeing a talk with designer Theodora van Runkle about how she got the film "Bonnie & Clyde" because nobody wanted to do it, and then when she did the research she was struck by the limpness of the 30's clothe. They were just like hanging pieces of cloth, clinging to the body. This was way different from the stiff, synthetics with pellon in the linings of the clothes that people were wearing all around her at the time. She decided to go that way, looking extensivley at real clothes from the 30s. She said she was continually having to get her cutters and sewers to not put pellon in everything. They would wisper to each other "She doesn't want any innerfacing in this!!!!!" That film really started the 2nd hand, hand-me-down look of the late 60's, early 70's....which of course just supports the road to accuracy. It's also a time when museums seem to really get serious about their costume collections. And you have great promoters like Diana Vreeland, who could put on a show, working at the Met in NYC by the early 70's. You also have things like "Elizabeth R" with Glenda Jackson on the tube. The 1st movie I ever remember the clothes from is "Thoroughly Modern Millie", which is 1967 [I was 10]....whose clothes still look pretty accurate [if theatrical] today. [And Mary Tyler Moore is a hoot!] "Bonnie & Clyde" is the same year. The 1st film I was truly blown away by the accuracy [in most cases]... because I was beginning to know what I was doing.... was "The Three Musketeers" with Michael York and Oliver Reed and everybody else in the world in it. That gown Geraldine Chaplain wears with the daisy petal collar....that didn't look ridiculous... was a revelation to me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 17:23:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLNsUl004021 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:23:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PLNkiO018340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLNCYQ074887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:23:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLN5Ow068307; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:23:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLMkiA067944 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:22:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.4a7.8d4ba85 (39952) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <4a7.8d4ba85.3249a29d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:22:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451848E2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:23:55 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d7708b8b-f8b8-46b7-bc9f-725beb4ba40f Status: RO In a message dated 9/25/2006 5:05:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tearoses@aol.com writes: And exactly when did the historical Hercules live? Come on -- mythology is the original sci-fi/fantasy! ***************** C'mon....can't they at least make him look a LITTLE Greek? I mean, he could be Seigfreid or Conan for all I know, the way they dressed him. And Charmed is a show that has dreadful costumes no matter what period they are dealing with. The utter crap they put the girls in is a pity. The men fair better because someone just buys their stuff at a high end men's store. Sure the girls things might be bought, but they are tasteless! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 17:45:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLjWK4004341 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:45:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PLjTtv029769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:45:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLj0C6077660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:45:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLivGY091356; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:44:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLirk8091257 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:44:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02178; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:26:30 -0500 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:26:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costume movies) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060925215755.031da8c8@suziclarke.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45184DF9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:45:32 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 807c3ae4-3cbc-46ec-b6ac-634a4956ada4 Status: RO Genie wrote: > >When did the drive for truly historical recreation really take off? > > >As I understand it in the music world, performers only started > >trying to play "as it was originally/meant to be played" within the > >last 20 to 25 years. > > >Is that also true for costume? Suzi replied: > Not true in England. Early music was being played on original > instruments when I was singing in the 60's. A gentleman called > Thurston Dart, I believe, was instrumental (pun intended) in bringing > "the real thing" to a wider audience. (Even then, it was not a very > wide audience - I was privileged to see and hear some rather special > early music people, including David Munrow and Christopher Hogwood of > the Early Music Consort.) However, there's apparently a distinction between "playing on period instruments" and "identifying and replicating period performance practice." My husband, who knows much more than me about early music, was explaining this to me just the other night, and said that the move to understand historical performance practice was something he became aware of in, hmm, the early 1980s I think. So that would be 20-25 years ago. (And he was living in England then.) Before that, he said, the key attribute of early music performance was simply the use of period instruments. There's apparently much more to it than that now. I'm not a musician, but I do recall seeing a surge in sessions on "performance practice" in the music tracks at the Medieval Congress in the last couple of decades. Interestingly (and getting back to Genie's question), as part of this same conversation, my husband and I were discussing changes in the understanding of historic costuming in that same period, and the redefinition of workmanship quality (in some circles) from what was then accepted as generically good practice (e.g. neat stitching, seam finishing) to an attempt to understand and replicate the qualities that were important to seamsters in a specific period -- which isn't necessarily what we value now. Pattern matching is one example of a workmanship issue that has changed in perceived value over the centuries. Another that comes up a lot in my lectures is the mechanics of gore insertion; modern costumers often place a lot of priority on having sharply pointed gore tops that lie perfectly flat, but I can't think offhand of a single extant example that does this; they all have folds, pleats, gathering, rounded or squared-off tops, or other hedges that would be logical ways to simplify the insertion and possibly increase flexibility. A modern reproduction that replicated those characteristics would be closer to known period practice, but probably score lower for workmanship in many competitions. --Robin straying back on-topic _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 18:00:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PM0ixN004750 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:00:44 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8PM0fAE026870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:00:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLxmX0079744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:59:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLxg7m008442; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:59:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8PLxZDn008182 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:59:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tgilbert737@adelphia.net) Received: from VAIO ([68.71.173.61]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20060925215925.MEJY22169.mta11.adelphia.net@VAIO> for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:59:25 -0400 Message-ID: <002001c6e0ed$d8635fa0$3dad4744@VAIO> From: "Gilbert" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060925141710.019c1288@justinanimator.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060925215755.031da8c8@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historicalcostume movies) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:59:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45185189.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:00:44 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 543448e8-fba9-464b-852f-f1bb9a548cf8 Status: RO > I was privileged to see and hear some rather special early music people, > including David Munrow and Christopher Hogwood of the Early Music > Consort.) > > Suzi You got to see David Munrow? Wow. He was something. I was so sorry to hear that he committed suicide. His recording of the medieval musical "encyclopedia" was my favorite... Marjorie Marjorie Gilbert author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England www.marjoriegilbert.net Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 21:33:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1XHmX009365 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:33:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8Q1XDPt028214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1WiBp004108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:32:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1WbrG069674; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:32:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1WXq6069582 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:32:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m245.in-tch.com [216.166.191.245]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k8Q1KrQ11455 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002601c6e10c$ca370b60$f5bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:40:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45188359.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:33:17 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0f318236-f431-4041-afdf-cb6bb75fa0c4 Status: RO IMNSHO, the entire movie was having a bad day. Llamas, for cris' sake...the animals are native to South America, not the Mediterranean! --sue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > > "Troy" was not great [one of my fave designers though, Bob Ringwood. He > designed "Dune". But maybe he was having a bad day on "Troy"] Still there's a > consistency to the look. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 21:59:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1xZhP009990 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:59:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8Q1xV26021061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:59:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1w8oU007029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:58:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1w7gI000843; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:58:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1w3Yg000777 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:58:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h26so2389936wxd for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:58:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=XqXg950QuSFhh90RCH1H3LPeJ7ae8+R2GOa1uiaLL7VqPa6eOyRrQ93LMfKg/MbQW4j8jxAmEu7MvQ9/uq16hsj4XtwWqTmMc+rOiJHFiV1530wMYWvyIvM0qf6yqiZkhYcW8TBjib8z10AVa7QbOkGZPox/MaMwa6tS7baNDW0= Received: by 10.70.47.19 with SMTP id u19mr366918wxu; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.77.1 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac190609251858m6125d3f0g9d8618b40c56a2bd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:58:02 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Semi-OT: Profanity in "Deadwood" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45188983.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:59:35 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 2fac026a-3fd0-4144-ace7-2b4964eb38a5 Status: RO I started watching the show a couple of months ago. I'm no prude but the length and breadth of the swearing in the first episode made my ears curl! Still, it's growing on me, and I wondered too about the language. It turns out that the use of modern profanity is a deliberate choice on the part of the creator: they tried using "period" swear words and to a modern audience they sounded funny rather than the shocking effect they were aiming for. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadwood_%28TV_series%29#Use_of_profanity Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 22:00:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q20MHF010020 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:00:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8Q20CuU009094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:00:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1xp0N007216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:59:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1xm5X002548; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:59:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:Iz2Uj2rxryKSpcvii1Y7T8b+CJAEyfz+@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1xigq002457 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:59:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.195] (206-124-5-195.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.195]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1qvh26034 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:52:57 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costume movies) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:58:52 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451889AC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:00:22 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 08d4017f-0c57-42fe-adad-c9a20d1b0d15 Status: RO On Sep 25, 2006, at 3:16 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/25/2006 3:49:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > maggie.gene@justinanimator.com writes: > > When did the drive for truly historical recreation really take off? > > > > ********************** > > > I remember seeing a talk with designer Theodora van Runkle about how > she got > the film "Bonnie & Clyde" because nobody wanted to do it, and then > when she > did the research she was struck by the limpness of the 30's clothe. > They were > just like hanging pieces of cloth, clinging to the body. This was way > different from the stiff, synthetics with pellon in the linings of the > clothes that > people were wearing all around her at the time. She decided to go that > way, > looking extensivley at real clothes from the 30s. She said she was > continually > having to get her cutters and sewers to not put pellon in everything. > They > would wisper to each other "She doesn't want any innerfacing in > this!!!!!" > That film really started the 2nd hand, hand-me-down look of the late > 60's, I could never understand why, if she put so much attention on historical accuracy in the costumes, she couldnt get the hair styles right! Dunaways was pure 60s. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 22:13:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q2DkXm010289 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:13:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8Q2DgwY026588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:13:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q2DMcM008773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:13:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q2DKQu017311; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q2DHAJ017147 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.24b.10ea4306 (40522) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:13:07 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <24b.10ea4306.3249e6b3@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:13:07 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costume movies) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45188CD6.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:13:46 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: fee4c778-a11b-46f3-81f4-248f97cf1201 Status: RO In a message dated 9/25/2006 10:00:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: she couldnt get the hair styles right! Dunaways was pure 60s. ******************* Because that's not her department. Hairstyles are usually what gives things away. Even today. 30 years from now, all the films we think are accurate, will look like that were made "at the turn of the century" to future viewers. I'll bet you hair is gonna be one [of many] clues for them to point out. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 22:16:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q2GD8h010327 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:16:14 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8Q2GAjo012709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:16:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q2FsQp009031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q2Fqa5019628; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q2Fmlh019559 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:15:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([71.253.229.106]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0J6600LCRGXOOHT9@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:15:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:15:23 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costumemovies) To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <02ea01c6e111$9feb00f0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45188D6A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:16:14 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: adc7f3bb-e568-4354-b208-02fe8a1524e4 Status: RO Hollywood and History mention this phenomenon. Hair is almost always wrong, again most commonly upon the female lead. The reasons for this are also similiar to the reasons given for costumes, including the insistance of the Actors themselves. That book also mentions somthing curious that I think is true. That often the errors of a film as far as hair styles are concerned is not as obvious when the fil is new and these anachronistic styles are in vogue. That they become more apparent as the style becomes dated. Ron Carnegie , > > I could never understand why, if she put so much attention on historical > accuracy in the costumes, she couldnt get the hair styles right! Dunaways > was pure 60s. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 25 23:07:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q37NBD011369 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:07:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8Q37IVj017303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:07:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q36GiL014842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q369Pj070808; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:06:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q1u0W6097787 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:56:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c08.53bc31d (40522) for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:55:50 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:55:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45189966.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:07:23 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: ff8699cd-c382-4fcd-bee3-4e1f45008e03 Status: RO In a message dated 9/25/2006 9:34:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: IMNSHO, the entire movie [Troy] was having a bad day. ***************** Llamas are the least of our worries. They stab Agamemnon to death on the battle field. Boy, Electra's gonna have a dull life! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 03:49:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q7n9ML012737 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:49:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8Q7n5Xh032534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:49:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q7kFKr040369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 01:46:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q7k3kG006909; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 01:46:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8Q7juof006809 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 01:45:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from silvaragreenleaf@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=XY8DgnmSrKyvrqqeRTeRYlyFrUvnuWeRm6z/KOA/UtONrfDe/wabn0w6gFsjXw3l; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.53.16.5] (helo=earthlink.net) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GS7dY-000436-Kx for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:45:53 -0400 Message-ID: <410-22006922674550937@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2004.1.42.0 (Windows) From: "Silvara" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:45:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 55793bc9c6738afdef8548c534e04b911aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7955edbd587ca04826cd45084f4b4722e5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.53.16.5 X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4518DB71.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:49:09 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 8d459f5a-a33f-46f6-9a5c-12a979e2c258 Status: RO Oh come on now it was done by the Rami brothers who did the Evil Dead movies its supposed to be campy.Calling that historical id like calling Army of Darkness historical. Silvara > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 9/25/2006 2:05:59 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > > And exactly when did the historical Hercules live? Come on -- mythology is the original sci-fi/fantasy! > > For my addition to the horrible costuming hall of shame, I'd like to submit several episodes of Charmed which involved traveling back in time. One of them, I think, was called "Viking vixens." I'll grant you, that show was in the scifi/fantasy category, but they could at least have made an effort! > > Tea Rose > > > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:09:31 EDT > From: AlbertCat@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > > God! Xena is OK because she's a complete fantasy [for some in more ways than > one...wink wink] But what about the other show these producers did: HERCULES! > > Yikes! It looks like Xena! Where the hell are the Greeks?????? > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 11:19:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QFJ4FL026584 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:19:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QFJ0Nb011366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:19:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QFHPbB089078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:17:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QFHGAe088429; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:17:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QFHB5k088314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:17:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id C76F484A68; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:17:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 880AB84A60 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:17:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:17:15 -0400 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <003401c6e17e$dbf2f720$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pattern clearance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451944E4.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:19:04 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: dfe3fd9b-c306-45f4-87ba-c66624ef69c8 Status: RO We still have considerable stock of patterns left at our clearance price of 40% discount. The website is updated twice daily, so the inventory there is fairly current. Don't miss out on these savings while stocks last. Regards, Lorina Stephens Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 11:33:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QFXknk027147 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:33:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QFXhNf026882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:33:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QFWdF1091036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QFWaqD006996; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:32:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QFWVQo006780 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:32:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B8FA7663 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:32:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4519483B.4040702@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:33:15 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies References: <410-22006922674550937@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006922674550937@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45194857.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:33:46 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7e4dbdf7-ced4-4c75-b630-018210774c01 Status: RO Silvara wrote: > Oh come on now it was done by the Rami brothers who did the Evil Dead > movies its > supposed to be campy.Calling that historical id like calling Army of > Darkness historical. > Some stuff is so awful these days I don't know how we're supposed to tell if it's silly on purpose or if they just didn't try. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 12:45:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QGjxiI029773 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:45:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QGjuMK008235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:45:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QGjCiH001764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:45:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QGj5XR088072; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:45:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QGj0iL087965 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:45:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.11095985; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:44:31 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k8QGiVi27173.; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:44:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:44:30 +0100 Message-Id: <451966EF02000014000C1495@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:44:15 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies References: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> In-Reply-To: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45195944.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:45:59 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 55f06d8b-1760-4b11-9acd-f0afd26f0b8b Status: RO I remember once seeing part of a 1950s film (an Edgar Allan Poe, I think) which featured a woman in Elizabethan costume but with projecting bosoms in the middle of her stomacher. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> Melanie Schuessler 23/09/2006 16:53 >>> Scaramouche (the one made in 1952) has always been one of my favorites. It's set in the 18th century, but the women all have the 50s lift-and-separate bullet bras underneath their gowns. I'm sure there are many other costume gaffes as well, but that's the most noticeable one. It's a charming movie, though--good swordfight at the end. Melanie Schuessler ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 13:07:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QH7Zhm030222 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:07:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QH7Wb5018755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:07:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QH6Vfk004564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:06:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QH6Kf8013113; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:06:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:odcHmbq6ouxA5tnb/BkEvkD7RgS8IvSj@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QH6E7g012979 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:06:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.29] (206-124-5-29.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.29]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8QGxQh27890 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:59:26 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <451966EF02000014000C1495@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> References: <4515586A.50908@faucet.net> <451966EF02000014000C1495@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:06:13 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45195E54.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:07:35 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 64664f48-df10-4984-82c9-a05b926c55ca Status: RO > >>>> Melanie Schuessler 23/09/2006 16:53 >>> > Scaramouche (the one made in 1952) has always been one of my favorites. > > It's set in the 18th century, but the women all have the 50s > lift-and-separate bullet bras underneath their gowns. I'm sure there > are many other costume gaffes as well, but that's the most noticeable > one. It's a charming movie, though--good swordfight at the end. > > Speaking of lift and separate bras, does anyone know if Playtex still makes those? I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 13:24:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QHOqWu030669 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:24:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QHOnSI009443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:24:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QHO4Wn007030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:24:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QHO2bQ033324; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:24:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QHNwrg033097 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:23:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.be5.46a9380 (42805) for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:23:45 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Lift and Separate X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45196261.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:24:52 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 18efe7de-767a-4645-a7a2-698a869ab40e Status: RO In a message dated 9/26/2006 1:07:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. Does Frederick's of Hollywood still carry such things? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 13:45:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QHj9Mr031039 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:45:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QHj5Qk011194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:45:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QHi5iA009474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:44:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QHi072055557; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:44:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8QHhAoT054477 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:43:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2006092613425932320 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:42:59 -0400 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QHguIC018440 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:42:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:42:50 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45196721.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:45:09 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 21281246-1767-4a45-9e82-731023da17d9 Status: RO Try ebay Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:06 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > >>>> Melanie Schuessler 23/09/2006 16:53 >>> > Scaramouche (the one made in 1952) has always been one of my favorites. > > It's set in the 18th century, but the women all have the 50s > lift-and-separate bullet bras underneath their gowns. I'm sure there > are many other costume gaffes as well, but that's the most noticeable > one. It's a charming movie, though--good swordfight at the end. > > Speaking of lift and separate bras, does anyone know if Playtex still makes those? I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 14:03:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QI3LD5031373 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:03:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QI3H51020947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:03:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QI1rS9011969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:01:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QI1T2l075754; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:01:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8QI0qv9075127 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:01:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail43.nyc.untd.com (webmail43.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.183]) by smtpout01.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABCTU4XLAFHGL8A for (sender ); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:00:10 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7zTAsrM/wWdPJBFbeGD/rWO6xl/EfLDuDA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail43.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L28BK8DS; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:59:54 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail43.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:59:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:59:31 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20060926.105954.20413.346995@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:2846884344 X-MAIL-INFO: 034d09bd09810d81294da529cd6d04719d9534047d397d14383814b96074f5c025bd60f105d93dd9bdd93dcd2db195a181a43135311000adad61f46ddd6ded2145ed217d30217d206100495019a9d049a48db5a999a404b475a435542df4b9f4d4417dd121f430 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.183|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45196B65.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:03:21 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4b6596a4-ba0c-452d-a229-b6d96c8df33b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8QI3LD5031373 Status: RO Is this what you're interested in? http://www.orchardcorset.com/Merchant2/p_G204.html I also recommend a look around the rest of the site as there are many other similar styles to choose from. Karen Seamstrix -- Sylvia Rognstad wrote: Speaking of lift and separate bras, does anyone know if Playtex still makes those? I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 16:15:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QKFq5b003461 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:15:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QKFnB3028362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:15:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QKEBSQ005709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QJQWTY070608; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:26:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from linda-2.paradise.net.nz (linda-2.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QJQPtU070414 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from ux421.paradise.net.nz (tclsnelb1-src-1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.172]) by linda-2.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0J67003Y2SNY43@linda-2.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:26:23 +1200 (NZST) Received: by ux421.paradise.net.nz (Postfix, from userid 30) id E595CB79; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:26:22 +1200 (NZST) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:26:22 +1200 (NZST) From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lift and Separate X-Originating-IP: 203.173.144.155 To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <1159298782.45197ededf326@www.paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.7 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45198A75.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:15:52 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 49999a03-f832-4e84-910d-bac162df4f5f Status: RO AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find > the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. > > > Does Frederick's of Hollywood still carry such things? I have no idea, but you can get such things from http://www.bulletbras.net http://www.cameo-intimates.com http://vickisnylons.com/ Adele d'M _________________________________________________ Quot homines, tot sententiae. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 16:15:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QKFwPa003466 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:15:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QKFttS014450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:15:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QKEBSS005709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:15:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QJT9Jp073898; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:29:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:9/vNXLXmK8dNIrji7/fgarC7VF7wyZzH@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QJT50N073800 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.29] (206-124-5-29.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.29]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8QJMHh11218 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:22:17 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <20060926.105954.20413.346995@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> References: <20060926.105954.20413.346995@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <399dbbcb98c51fb64ed012081b65c815@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:29:05 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45198A7B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:15:58 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: cba59125-663c-4d2c-a43e-9e4cb9f51002 Status: RO That's pretty close, except they don't seem to make them small enough for some of my actresses. Thanks. Sylrog On Sep 26, 2006, at 11:59 AM, penhalion@juno.com wrote: > Is this what you're interested in? > http://www.orchardcorset.com/Merchant2/p_G204.html > > I also recommend a look around the rest of the site as there are many > other similar styles to choose from. > > Karen > Seamstrix > > -- Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > > > Speaking of lift and separate bras, does anyone know if Playtex still > makes those? I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find > the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 16:33:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QKXCPW004002 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:33:12 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QKX9mO013603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:33:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QKWn6B008680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:32:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QKWd8Q046794; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.200.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QKWaOB046651 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:32:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20060926203230012002ft00e>; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:32:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <13A9D276-97C5-4E24-9157-BAB45E0CA7F3@comcast.net> From: Lauren Walker Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lift and Separate Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:35:59 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45198E85.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:33:12 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 61b2476c-a994-405d-baa6-19757e05b4e2 Status: RO Frederick's is not your best bet -- mostly modern, kind of cheesy, lace stuff these days. In addition to Adele's good suggestions, http://www.sleeknchic.com/html/catbra.htm sells vintage lingerie on line. best, Lauren On Sep 26, 2006, at 1:23 PM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/26/2006 1:07:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sylvia@ntw.net writes: > > I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find > the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. > > > > > Does Frederick's of Hollywood still carry such things? > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 18:09:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QM9kwJ006117 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:09:46 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QM9huS016576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:09:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QM80fI022898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:08:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QM7tfB058541; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:07:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51311.mail.yahoo.com (web51311.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8QM7pnO058319 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:07:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 85820 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Sep 2006 22:07:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=OseU/5u8QbAsOQ08HgmngdEuhFlrzkIs/n27Jpd2+LZ3nG2ZQJ36CYSPeJL9YRnmg1OHETTdEXbIOMLRirUpORAoB9UKDDgAApxtAmsoIKnRO4UIUVprYGUT06Sp/Oa2tRpWKXRoQuXT5L3UZ2u0/KXSJym3ASVTI1yn9VkrK5k= ; Message-ID: <20060926220744.85818.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.183.31.113] by web51311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:07:44 PDT Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:07:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pretty decent historic costuming X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4519A527.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:09:46 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d134c1e0-ceb6-48b0-925c-f0ae4347fa85 Status: RO I caught on my local PBS station the Nova program "Einstein's Big Idea." While I'm sure there were anachronisms, the clothes, hairstyles, backgrounds, vehicles, etc. all struck me as right. The only jarring moment came when a chemist, meant to be Lise Meitner, kept saying 'there are are 235 neutrons and protons in the nucleus of uranium' (not an accurate quote by me, either!), where any chemist would say 'there are 92 protons and 143 neutrons in the nucleus of U-235.' I have two chemistry degrees, and my mom, too, with her chemistry background and teaching of chemistry everyday; we were both bothered by that--who wrote that line? But the clothes were great, as was the aging of the characters and the casting in the first place. Ann in CT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 19:04:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QN4Rth006848 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:04:27 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8QN4OIY029746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:04:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QN3w1v031685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:03:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QN3rMH026507; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:03:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web50212.mail.yahoo.com (web50212.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.176]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8QJwq1m008701 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:58:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jmhr3@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 82799 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Sep 2006 19:58:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ippJ+nK8dX5tKpyrgLFBayAxY/710cOWF3hL8XdukR9vnKO8w1cWnxhRM5ZFQu+v8oF8gOAM3K588mE6kXMQJRnyjP2wGXZdnUENv1Rt/kjl/4hxj+WralxGC/AC+CwHPAR848S4CI3FVMC87IDfSyr11+yp34/uJuPeCA6kClE= ; Message-ID: <20060926195846.82797.qmail@web50212.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.28.10.30] by web50212.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:58:46 PDT Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:58:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "jmhr3@yahoo.com" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] crepe fabric for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4519B1F8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:04:27 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 52fdf219-55a5-48e0-9503-183734bbfea5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8QN4Rth006848 Status: RO I've been cleaning out again! I have 16 yds of white Swiss pima cotton crepe (Spechler Vogel) for sale as one piece for $80.00 (plus shipping) which is a little less than wholesale - it's left from when I had an heirloom sewing business. It has a beautiful sheen and very fine springy texture, drapes nicely. I can send pictures. If interested, email jmhr3@yahoo.com. Melissa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 20:08:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R08K4d007414 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:08:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8R08HS0007190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:08:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R07TV7040621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:07:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R07N2v005528; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:07:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R07Ier005367 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 18:07:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.be0.4580d5c (40523) for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:07:05 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:07:05 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lift and Separate To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4519C0F1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:08:21 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 087a6575-6305-44b8-990d-620f1e86ce8f Status: RO In a message dated 9/26/2006 4:17:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladyadele@paradise.net.nz writes: http://www.bulletbras.net ***************** Hahahahaha....I dreamed I surfed the web in my bullet bra! Great resource! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 26 20:55:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R0tTax008037 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:55:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8R0tPBh023399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:55:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QK48I4001316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QJTmiB074597; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:29:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:etFpdpjOMwakKWYrh7Gbmi+CXDHMYAPZ@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8QJTeYr074470 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.29] (206-124-5-29.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.29]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8QJMqh11271 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:22:52 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lift and Separate Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:29:40 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4519CBFE.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:55:29 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d7973904-5007-45d2-ab94-8266271190b8 Status: RO Don't. know I'll check it out. Thanks. On Sep 26, 2006, at 11:23 AM, AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/26/2006 1:07:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sylvia@ntw.net writes: > > I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find > the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. > > > > > Does Frederick's of Hollywood still carry such things? > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 01:46:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R5kUfm014274 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:46:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8R5kRLO017336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:46:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R5jcST080126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:45:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R5jW47086568; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:45:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8R5jT2q086490 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:45:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20nb.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.235] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GSSEa-0007nq-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:45:28 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060927003407.0189a620@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:44:59 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200609262302.k8QN2Q2K024812@net.indra.com> References: <200609262302.k8QN2Q2K024812@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bullet bras X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451A1033.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:46:30 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: f44e0199-5fa2-4b84-877d-d95e620cc14c Status: RO Google search gave: http://vickisnylons.com/Bbra/bbra.htm http://www.bulletbras.net/ http://www.cameo-intimates.com/lingerie/index.html At 06:02 PM 9/26/2006, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:06:13 -0600 >From: Sylvia Rognstad >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies > >Speaking of lift and separate bras, does anyone know if Playtex still >makes those? I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could find >the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. > >Sylrog "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 09:18:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RDIUNC022331 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:18:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RDIQjd004652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:18:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RDHSxI025448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:17:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RDHNkt046572; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:17:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8RDHJBx046372 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 07:17:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail43.nyc.untd.com (webmail43.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.183]) by smtpout01.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABCTW8PEABLX88A for (sender ); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:16:20 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn707t3GSY8L5voBdD4Vir/VchhCIZ7Dz5Pw== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail43.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L3ADP9QJ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 06:15:33 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail43.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:14:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:14:50 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20060927.061533.20413.351188@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:3763596186 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.183|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mona Lisa X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451A7A22.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:18:30 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: cf8a479f-05ae-46e4-8bbb-54ab36dbb5e1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8RDIUNC022331 Status: RO IN the last day or so, there have been a number of reports on the intensive laser scan that a Canadian outfit is doing on DaVinci's Mona Lisa. In addition to a number of other new information, they are saying that they have detected a gauze veil on her head that they are claiming demonstrates that she had just given birth. They are saying that this gauze veil was something that was typically worn by women who were either pregnant or had just given birth. I'll be the first one to admit that Italian Ren isn't my area of expertise, but as far as I know a gauze veil was simply a common headcovering for women at that time. Does anybody on the list have any definitive information on the social significance of gauze veils in Renaissance Italy? To me, this smacks of yet another Costume Myth, but one with a significant impact due to this report. Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 11:06:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RF6SAD025360 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:06:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RF6Ot6028199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:06:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RF4vkx039724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:04:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RF4jk5085377; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:04:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RF4fiv085179 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:04:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267FCA7657 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:04:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451A9302.6040107@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:04:34 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa References: <20060927.061533.20413.351188@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> In-Reply-To: <20060927.061533.20413.351188@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451A9370.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:06:28 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4902548f-7d4e-4678-9efe-96af88db7654 Status: RO penhalion@juno.com wrote: > IN the last day or so, there have been a number of reports on the intensive laser scan that a Canadian outfit is doing on DaVinci's Mona Lisa. In addition to a number of other new information, they are saying that they have detected a gauze veil on her head that they are claiming demonstrates that she had just given birth. > I don't know about the symbology of the veil they are talking about, but the reports are saying it was placed over her dress, not on her head. There's also talk of a 'bonnet'. I've copied a few quotes below, from several articles, there seems to be some variation in what's being reported and quoted. Dawn The NRC study discovered, under dark varnish, a previously unseen gauzy, veil-like cloth hanging from the bodice of Mona Lisa's dress. Such a garment was common in Renaissance Italy for women who had recently given birth, French and Canadian scientists said during a news conference yesterday at NRC headquarters. Dark varnish had also made invisible a newly discovered small bonnet worn on the back part of Mona Lisa's head. The bonnet peeks through the varnish only with the aid of the NRC's high-tech laser vision. "Thanks to laser scanning, we were able to uncover the very fine gauze veil Mona Lisa was wearing on her dress. This was something typical for either soon-to-be or new mothers at the time," Michel Menu, research director of the French Museums' Center for Research and Restoration, said on LCI television. It said other details obscured by darkened paint and varnish included the hair originally being in a bun and a slightly different posture, as well as the gauze dress. "This type of gauze dress ... was typical of the kind worn in early 16th Century Italy by women who were pregnant or who had just given birth," said Bruno Mottin of the French Museums' Center for Research and Restoration. Using infrared technology that allowed them to see more clearly beneath dark varnish, the scientists found that Leonardo da Vinci's model had a gauzy, nearly transparent layer over her dress that was typically worn by pregnant women of the time, or mothers who had recently given birth. The model for Mona Lisa was Lisa Gherardini, the wife of Francesco del Giocondo, a Florentine cloth merchant. The discovery of the filmy garment, sewn to her dress at the shoulders, means the painting was commissioned to celebrate the birth of her third child, also found that in addition to her veil, Mona Lisa was wearing a dark bonnet which cannot be seen under the layer of varnish. It was applied long after Leonardo da Vinci died, ... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 11:55:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RFtY5m026865 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:55:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RFtVDm011144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:55:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RFsbAC047111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RFsY4K046990; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:54:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp110.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp110.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.209]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8RFsUtq046803 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:54:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from recon36@airmail.net) Received: (qmail 32243 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2006 15:54:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.103?) (edwalton@swbell.net@70.251.132.54 with plain) by smtp110.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2006 15:54:20 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <0DFA381C-EF6B-4193-84B0-B4D5AB248062@airmail.net> From: Ed Walton Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:54:18 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451A9EF3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:55:34 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 532d3644-7050-4021-8919-6fe5067aaf47 Status: RO On Sep 25, 2006, at 12:20, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > That's nuts! I don't understand being offended by language...in a > whore > house. > _______________________________________________ You're obviously not a Victorian. Whorehouses often had signs banning the use of profanity on the premises, according to first hand accounts and photographs of sporting house interiors. You might be there to enjoy the "French Girl Show", but you better not cuss while doing so. In 1876, using language like that heard on the Deadwood show would get you killed very quickly. Teddy Blue Abbott, a longtime Montana cowboy and rancher (1870's -90's) stated in 1939 when he was 80 yrs old: "... six-shooters were a great thing for keeping the peace. You wouldn't have any of this calling names and brawling and fighting, where every man was wearing a deadly weapon in plain sight. And as for that expression about a son of a bitch, I never heard it 'said with a smile', as they say, before the nineties. In the early days men were soft-spoken and respectful to each other, because it didn't pay to be anything else. It's not like that now." Things in the west were quick and to the point. Notice that rude language and its consequences came up as an aside in a discussion of firearms and their uses. Calling somebody a bastard or sob was a death challenge. The mores of the time would have demanded instant terminal action directed at anyone calling a man a "c*cks*cker" (one of Deadwood's favorites) and probably all his associates, plus burning his body. Concerning the men's costumes, styles depicted on this show range from about 1855 to 1900, with a heavy emphasis on the 1880's. Pretty bad, but better than most. Ed Walton Walton & Taylor Mercantile http://www.waltontaylor.com 972-690-1945 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 12:43:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RGhL89028220 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:43:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RGhHwH030213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:43:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RGgRPD054929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:42:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RGgL1G005418; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RGgBid005162 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:42:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c4c.3e22d46 (30739) for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:42:03 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:42:03 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451AAA25.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:43:21 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 3f15f5aa-6aba-45eb-a098-3c1afd93ecfd Status: RO In a message dated 9/27/2006 11:55:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, recon36@airmail.net writes: You're obviously not a Victorian. ******************** Neither are the *Americans* in "Deadwood". :-P I agree with your observation of the men's clothe. Like I said before, I find it all a little over designed. The prostitutes look great though! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 14:40:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RIe5Zh032345 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:40:05 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RIe1Rc002181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RIcfsi073271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:38:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RIcYVB044095; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:38:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s16.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s16.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.152]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RIcNga043819 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:38:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauradi7@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.174.28]) by bay0-omc2-s16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:38:18 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:38:17 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.200 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:38:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [72.93.80.26] X-Originating-Email: [lauradi7@hotmail.com] X-Sender: lauradi7@hotmail.com From: "Laura Dickerson" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:38:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2006 18:38:17.0345 (UTC) FILETIME=[192A5710:01C6E264] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Re: A question about "when" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451AC581.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:40:05 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 991a8ad8-42ee-441e-88e9-b1245f7697fa Status: RO Albert cat wrote >>Hairstyles are usually what gives things away. Even today. 30 years from now, all the films we think are accurate, will look like that were made "at the turn of the century" to future viewers. I'll bet you hair is gonna be one [of many] clues for them to point out.<< Emma Thompson kept a journal for "Premiere" magazine during the filming of "Remains of the Day," which is set in late 1930s England. After a lot of thought and experimentation, the hairdressers decided that the best way to make the hairstyles look authentic was to do them in the original way. This meant for ET that once her hair was set, she wasn't allowed to wash it for a week at a time, something that she found unpleasant. Laura Dickerson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 16:12:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKClkN002840 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:12:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RKChRM017850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKBqr8086388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:11:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKBlpw049684; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8RKBfwu049458 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:11:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCTXYYLAARHH3S for (sender ); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:10:50 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7ixGkFsnrqvjYwU77JKek4YD06Lj/x2r+w== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L3A5FUGV; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:10:23 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:04:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costumemovies) Message-ID: <20060927.150847.216.1.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,12-13 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 3:5:3844374321 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m02.lax.untd.com|llwatts@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451ADB3B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:12:47 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7dbf2e97-9f42-40b6-a056-5c9451564882 Status: RO > Hollywood and History mention this phenomenon. Hair is almost > always wrong, > again most commonly upon the female lead. The reasons for this are > also > similiar to the reasons given for costumes, including the insistance > of the > Actors themselves. Not a historical show, but back when the original Star Trek was going into initial production the male cast members announced they were NOT going to have their hair restyled to something "futuristic" -- the final compromise was to reshape their sideburns. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 16:34:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKYF6m003521 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:34:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RKYCVR012162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:34:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKXabc089635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:33:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKXVgL075507; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:33:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKXQkY075389 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.95.44] (helo=[192.168.0.3]) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GSg5o-0006o4-MO for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:33:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 13:32:53 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc89611997b3832483f75372d505c11c15350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.95.44 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451AE044.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:34:15 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 70160c98-fd3d-46cb-a1a9-0d0743bb6864 Status: RO At 12:42 PM -0400 9/27/06, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 9/27/2006 11:55:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >recon36@airmail.net writes: > >>You're obviously not a Victorian. > >Neither are the *Americans* in "Deadwood". :-P "Victorian" values and culture were not limited to the UK or even the British empire, and the term is not unreasonably applied to the entire Anglophone world for the relevant period, whether under the rule of Victoria or not, especially when discussing such things as social mores (and, of course, houses -- I'm not sure there are any Victorian houses in the UK, in the sense of the particular housing design style known as Victorian, but there are tons in the US). And, of course, the evidence cited to support the Victorian comment were clearly American in origin -- so whether you call the period "Victorian" or not, the point that in that period even in the American West they didn't normally cuss, even in whore houses, stands. (Our modern ideas about cussing are, like everything else in our culture, modern, and there is no particular reason to expect the attitudes toward and practice of cussing to have been the same in the past as it is now.) Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me! http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/ Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 16:39:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKdDQC003685 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:39:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RKdAlj003839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:39:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKbUEY090255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:37:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RKbO9C080081; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:37:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp113.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp113.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.212]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8RKaoSD079484 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:36:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from recon36@airmail.net) Received: (qmail 11297 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2006 20:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.103?) (edwalton@swbell.net@70.251.83.54 with plain) by smtp113.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2006 20:36:45 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Ed Walton Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:36:44 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451AE16E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:39:13 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: dcdf8077-77d3-4393-8032-8da188591892 Status: RO On Sep 27, 2006, at 11:42, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > You're obviously not a Victorian. > > ******************** > > Neither are the *Americans* in "Deadwood". :-P What's funny is that the rancher I quoted, Teddy Blue Abbot, was English. Real name: Edward Charles Abbott. The nickname has something to do with a hooker, but I don't know the story. > > I agree with your observation of the men's clothe. Like I said > before, I > find it all a little over designed. The prostitutes look great > though! Yeah. A few of the real ones were good looking, too. They usually went under the title of "actress" or "singer". Ed Walton Walton & Taylor Mercantile http://www.waltontaylor.com 972-690-1945 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 17:34:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RLY9t3005531 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:34:09 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RLY5uv013076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:34:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RLXaLb097891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:33:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RLXXWQ039517; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:33:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RLXCOP039209 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:33:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31178) id <01M7Q2C8BWPS9JFKXE@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:31:45 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31178) with ESMTP id <01M7Q2DXVYZC9IV121@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:33:08 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:32:54 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] A question about "when" (was Bad historical costumemovies) In-reply-to: <20060927.150847.216.1.LLWatts@juno.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <451AEE06.407@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <20060927.150847.216.1.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451AEE4E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:34:09 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 347eb47c-f566-4179-ae4b-f97e1558d776 Status: RO Leah L Watts wrote: >Not a historical show, but back when the original Star Trek was going >into initial production the male cast members announced they were NOT >going to have their hair restyled to something "futuristic" -- the final >compromise was to reshape their sideburns. > > > That's _Star Trek XXXIX: The Final Compromise_. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 17:59:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RLxGcE006188 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:59:16 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RLxCVM024098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:59:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RLwZiH001617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:58:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RLwXps067445; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:58:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RLwRG5067340 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:58:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A291120035C; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:52:17 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:58:31 -0700 Message-ID: <006c01c6e280$1223dfb0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <399dbbcb98c51fb64ed012081b65c815@ntw.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451AF430.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:59:16 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 371b850b-d168-4270-a6a7-a9f8726b39ba Status: RO Try www.vermontcountrystore.com -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 12:29 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies That's pretty close, except they don't seem to make them small enough for some of my actresses. Thanks. Sylrog On Sep 26, 2006, at 11:59 AM, penhalion@juno.com wrote: > Is this what you're interested in? > http://www.orchardcorset.com/Merchant2/p_G204.html > > I also recommend a look around the rest of the site as there are many > other similar styles to choose from. > > Karen > Seamstrix > > -- Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > > > Speaking of lift and separate bras, does anyone know if Playtex still > makes those? I need some 50s looking bras and the closest I could > find the last time I was looking was the Playtex variety. > > Sylrog > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 18:03:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RM3Kpp006327 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:03:20 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RM3G3r026139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:03:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RM1pqP002048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:01:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RM1oX5071269; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RM1j22071165 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 16:01:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3578DE01F6; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:55:35 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:01:49 -0700 Message-ID: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <451A9302.6040107@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8RM1j22071165 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451AF525.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:03:20 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 68cbde35-f1c3-40b7-8e12-d3ff82209107 Status: RO Don't know of this, but if true, could be for privacy/modesty during nursing. Just a thought. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:05 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa penhalion@juno.com wrote: > IN the last day or so, there have been a number of reports on the > intensive laser scan that a Canadian outfit is doing on DaVinci's Mona Lisa. In addition to a number of other new information, they are saying that they have detected a gauze veil on her head that they are claiming demonstrates that she had just given birth. > I don't know about the symbology of the veil they are talking about, but the reports are saying it was placed over her dress, not on her head. There's also talk of a 'bonnet'. I've copied a few quotes below, from several articles, there seems to be some variation in what's being reported and quoted. Dawn The NRC study discovered, under dark varnish, a previously unseen gauzy, veil-like cloth hanging from the bodice of Mona Lisa's dress. Such a garment was common in Renaissance Italy for women who had recently given birth, French and Canadian scientists said during a news conference yesterday at NRC headquarters. Dark varnish had also made invisible a newly discovered small bonnet worn on the back part of Mona Lisa's head. The bonnet peeks through the varnish only with the aid of the NRC's high-tech laser vision. "Thanks to laser scanning, we were able to uncover the very fine gauze veil Mona Lisa was wearing on her dress. This was something typical for either soon-to-be or new mothers at the time," Michel Menu, research director of the French Museums' Center for Research and Restoration, said on LCI television. It said other details obscured by darkened paint and varnish included the hair originally being in a bun and a slightly different posture, as well as the gauze dress. "This type of gauze dress ... was typical of the kind worn in early 16th Century Italy by women who were pregnant or who had just given birth," said Bruno Mottin of the French Museums' Center for Research and Restoration. Using infrared technology that allowed them to see more clearly beneath dark varnish, the scientists found that Leonardo da Vinci's model had a gauzy, nearly transparent layer over her dress that was typically worn by pregnant women of the time, or mothers who had recently given birth. The model for Mona Lisa was Lisa Gherardini, the wife of Francesco del Giocondo, a Florentine cloth merchant. The discovery of the filmy garment, sewn to her dress at the shoulders, means the painting was commissioned to celebrate the birth of her third child, also found that in addition to her veil, Mona Lisa was wearing a dark bonnet which cannot be seen under the layer of varnish. It was applied long after Leonardo da Vinci died, ... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 19:20:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RNKYJI008464 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:20:34 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8RNKUCI032729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:20:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RNJWA7012720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:19:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RNJQhn061112; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:19:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.po.exetel.com.au (pecan-mail.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8RNJKn9060974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:19:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendaslists@exemail.com.au) Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au ([220.233.88.249] helo=mycomputer) by smtp.po.exetel.com.au with smtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GSigR-0000Uo-2i for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:19:19 +1000 Message-ID: <006601c6e28b$54adb6c0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20060927.061533.20413.351188@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:19:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451B073E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:20:34 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c11dd62b-5d0d-4206-98bb-2206bea2a0bf Status: RO Not my period either, but I find it amusing they've had to use intensive laser scanning to detect something I (and I suppose most others here) could see just by looking at a photograph in a book. I never realised 'no-one' had seen it. It's quite obvious around her hairline. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 21:17:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S1HjVu011533 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:17:45 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8S1Heg5025240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:17:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S1Gw8p029353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:16:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S1GsRb004981; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S1GpjU004691 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:16:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02763A75D9 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:16:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451B2282.4050408@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:16:50 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa References: <20060927.061533.20413.351188@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> <006601c6e28b$54adb6c0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> In-Reply-To: <006601c6e28b$54adb6c0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451B22B4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:17:45 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: b9f0acac-6498-495b-bfbb-da9d4d98a967 Status: RO Glenda Robinson wrote: > Not my period either, but I find it amusing they've had to use intensive > laser scanning to detect something I (and I suppose most others here) > could see just by looking at a photograph in a book. I never realised > 'no-one' had seen it. It's quite obvious around her hairline. > They're not talking about the veil on her head. They are claiming to have discovered a gauzy veil over her clothing, it's been called an 'overdress' in a few of the articles. It's so transparently painted that it's disappeared under the layer of varnish and grime on the canvas. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 21:19:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S1JgqP011591 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:19:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8S1Jb16026076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:19:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S1JAA1029595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:19:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S1J7Lf007401; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:19:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S1Ip2O007117 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:19:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F829A75DA for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:18:44 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa References: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451B2329.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:19:42 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 2ed3ff8c-a26f-44ea-8ff9-eee329b498b6 Status: RO Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > Don't know of this, but if true, could be for privacy/modesty during > nursing. Just a thought. > > If they're describing it as a " gauzy, nearly transparent layer over her dress" then I doubt it was worn for modesty. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 22:25:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S2PoiP013405 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:25:50 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8S2Pga4031186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:25:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S2P3OS037367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S2Ouj5088637; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:24:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S2OqHi088569 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:24:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1GSlZy1LMW-0001xV; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:24:52 -0400 Message-ID: <007d01c6e2a5$44e2e700$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:24:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451B32A6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:25:50 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: e8b59ff4-5944-43d5-9608-081fba57c749 Status: RO I think the main problem is that we are so used to seeing paintings that have been air-brushed in media. There are plenty of painting, textiles, costumes, that have been in private and institutional collections that have lost so much in detail lost to grime or aging process. I recall being so disappointed with seeing a very popular painting in a museum. It was so cracked that it looked nothing like what we know it as. Someone had to tell me what it was and I sat for 30 minutes looking at it. The controversy among our field of interest, historic costume is to restore or not. And if chosen to restore, is the funding and expertise available. A very big dealer told me recently concerning restoration... that either costume dies a quick death if the restoration fails. If you have succeeded and saved its life, the costume will shine its glory for several more generations to learn from. I have recently been dabbling in restoration. I talked with several people as how to go about it. I can't tell you how rewarding it is to bring something back to life! I am working with items that I call the ICU of costumes. One of my long term goals is to learn beading and work on some of the 1920s dresses or what were once dresses. I want to piece to them together for the beading patterns and document them. I am doing this at my own expensive. Universities don't budget for these things or think that the beading patterns of an era or important except if they belonged to a famous person. But I know the beauty of the designs are there. And I am learning a new skill One of my restoration projects is a 19th Century bonnet of thin netting and pineapple straw. The straw lace has held up wonderfully but the netting is gone on one half of the bonnet. I have looked and looked at this bonnet and I think I can really save it. When I took it out of the box, it was all meshed together. It took a while to get it untangled. But it will be an interesting challenge for me. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 22:48:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S2mlkJ013922 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:48:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8S2mgkG011068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:48:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S2mRVP040629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:48:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S2mPXF013865; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:48:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web.vaxxine.com (web.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S2mKTl013781 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:48:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from pc ([209.5.212.16]) by web.vaxxine.com (8.13.6/8.13.5) with SMTP id k8S2qCJk015863 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:52:13 -0400 (EDT) X-RCPT-To: Received: from ppp186.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net (alderweb@ppp186.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.186]) by slipstream2 (SlipStream SP Server 5.0.181 built 2006/07/19 10:14:46 -0400 (EDT)); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:44:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Originating-IP: [209.5.232.186] X-Originating-User: [alderweb] Message-ID: From: "david webb" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:50:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451B380A.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:48:47 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: f141c9f0-8db0-475c-9b1c-bfcf59c0b3ee Status: RO As a proud Canadian, "standing on guard for thee", trusty ally to Britain and the U.S. in peace and war, etc. etc. yadda, yadda, I winced a bit at the reference to the "Canadian outfit " (which makes it sound as if the local cowboys, hunting lodge or wedding videotapers had a go at it);-). http://iit-iti.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/projects-projets/monalisa-lajoconde_e.html The National Research Council Canada which particpated in this exercise has been around for a long time and is fairly reputable scientific organization. They have cooperated with NASA and the Canadarm, if I recall correctly. Granted, they may know richard-all about costume quirks of fecund women during Leonardo's period, but it was one of the French collaborators that made that claim. A brief blurb: NRC-IIT is dedicated to R&D in software and systems technologies. The Institute is a key player in R&D collaborations and partnerships in information and telecommunications technologies with business, universities and government agencies, in Canada and around the world. NRC-IIT conducts scientific research, develops technology, creates knowledge and supports innovation with the aim of having a beneficial and profound impact on Canadian society. NRC-IIT blends the long-term vision inherent in leading-edge science with a capacity to adapt to emerging S&T issues and priorities. The maple leaf forever.. (sung offkey and forgetting half the words) Sheridan Alder ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa > Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > > > Don't know of this, but if true, could be for privacy/modesty during > > nursing. Just a thought. > > > > > > If they're describing it as a " gauzy, nearly transparent layer over her > dress" then I doubt it was worn for modesty. > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 27 23:14:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S3EABS014543 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:14:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8S3E4ws027908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:14:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S3DO4Y044512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:13:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S3DLA5038225; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S3Cssi037981 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1GSmKS285g-0001rI; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:12:53 -0400 Message-ID: <008501c6e2ab$fa26f560$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc><451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:12:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451B3DFC.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:14:10 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 555825ae-6fc2-4abe-b907-061b5738ce30 Status: RO Sheridan, It is wonderful the Canadians have this technology. Big kudos! It makes me wonderful what is under the vanish, dirt, and such so many other paintings. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 01:25:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S5P3O1017701 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:25:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8S5OxCQ000508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:25:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S5OK1u058750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:24:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S5OG4c081831; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:24:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8S5OBh6081665 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:24:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail43.nyc.untd.com (webmail43.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.183]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABCTYZCHADVK8EA for (sender ); Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:23:19 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn78ZFTbpEK2X9CHMpB50Mfo907nkr6kSZYQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail43.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L3B438F5; Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:23:16 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail43.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 05:22:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 05:22:57 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20060927.222316.20413.356184@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:2:618719132 X-MAIL-INFO: 2274e0814d89203570f995b459dd95d1d470f9b551b599a5 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.183|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451B5CAB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:25:03 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 6365bed6-fe43-4cc0-843b-01d73f134d7e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8S5P3O1017701 Status: RO -- "david webb" wrote: As a proud Canadian, "standing on guard for thee", trusty ally to Britain and the U.S. in peace and war, etc. etc. yadda, yadda, I winced a bit at the reference to the "Canadian outfit " (which makes it sound as if the local cowboys, hunting lodge or wedding videotapers had a go at it);-). No offense meant to our Neighbors Ta Da Nort', eh! I just couldn't remember the correct name as I was typing. And since I come from Chicago, calling stuff an 'outfit' just seems to come naturally. 8-) The National Research Council Canada which particpated in this exercise has been around for a long time and is fairly reputable scientific organization. They have cooperated with NASA and the Canadarm, if I recall correctly. Granted, they may know richard-all about costume quirks of fecund women during Leonardo's period, but it was one of the French collaborators that made that claim. I have no doubt that the tech is spot on and that they have found what they say they have found. However, since I have a more than passing interest in historic costume and am reasonably familiar with Renaissance clothing yet have never encountered something that was specifically indicative of about-to and just-given birth, I thought I'd toss that out to the list whose collective wisdom on matters of historic costume is always impressive. It just smells like a Costume Myth to me.....but I could be wrong.... Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 04:17:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S8HQm4020592 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 04:17:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8S8HNEQ005131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 04:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S8FIhJ083934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 02:15:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S8FDJu092086; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 02:15:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8S8F8jX091969 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 02:15:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.11206558; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:14:41 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k8S8EeE09620.; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:14:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:14:40 +0100 Message-Id: <451B926E02000014000C1638@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:14:22 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451B8513.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 04:17:26 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 705d5159-c4e4-4dda-a7fd-157557d2582d Status: RO Sharon, I'm puzzled by your comment on Victorian houses. There are thousands of houses in the UK that we would describe as Victorian (I grew up in one). Does the term have a specific meaning in the States other than "in the style of the mid-late 19th century"? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> "Sharon L. Krossa" 27/09/2006 21:32 >>> -- I'm not sure there are any Victorian houses in the UK, in the sense of the particular housing design style known as Victorian, but there are tons in the US. ____________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 07:21:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SBLqJu023510 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:21:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SBLm0K016724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:21:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SBLHEF007592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 05:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SBLEoD027435; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 05:21:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4d.socket.net [216.106.88.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SBL9Cv027350 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 05:21:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4DDC136A30 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:21:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:21:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451BB04C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:21:52 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d4d18628-1cf0-427b-9387-9a2bc96678a3 Status: RO Could they be thinking of something like this. http://tinyurl.com/e8esf But then, perhaps not. Note the Mona Lisa's left shoulder. There seems to be a shear something which I do not think is her veil. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Mona_Lisa.jpeg De w/ a 101 temp. so take my post with a grain o' salt. -----Original Message----- Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > Don't know of this, but if true, could be for privacy/modesty during > nursing. Just a thought. > > If they're describing it as a " gauzy, nearly transparent layer over her dress" then I doubt it was worn for modesty. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 08:05:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SC5wdq024698 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:05:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SC5sYr003874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:05:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SC5WO4011127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:05:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SC5VAd086488; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:05:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SC5Rpr086300 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:05:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c3f.46565f4 (41810) for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:05:17 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:05:16 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Natural Dyes Book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451BBAA2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:05:58 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 3af34e8a-c72d-403f-a679-de99c3289230 Status: RO Just got a message from Amazon.com that they were canceling my order for Dominique Cardon's "Natural Dyes." I had ordered it pre-publication, but evidently it is now doubtful that it will be published at all. Does anyone have more information on this book? Thanks. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 09:48:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SDmdio028051 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:48:39 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SDmYQa025098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:48:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SDm05L021619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SDlqgU014039; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:47:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from centrmmtao02.cox.net (centrmmtao02.cox.net [70.168.83.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SDlieM013812 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llyonet@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by centrmmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060928134738.EMTX22014.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:47:38 -0400 Received: from Mischele ([68.1.71.252]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id TpnF1V00P5SaxjY0000000 Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:47:15 -0400 Message-ID: <02a501c6e304$ac9ea410$fc470144@Mischele> From: "Lyonet" To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:47:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] a christmas carol X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451BD2B2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:48:39 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 25933dd3-fb34-4c84-8d13-1d2c20a534cd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8SDmdio028051 Status: RO Greetings, I have been asked to be the head (gulp) of costuming for "A Christmas Carol" styled play. I know very little about this time period. The costumes only need to past the 20' rule. Are there any big 3 patterns that would work? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lyonet (who would be happy not to be in charge of this venture) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 10:14:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SEEXRM029080 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:14:33 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SEEUgM009285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:14:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SEE1ae026737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SEDwrC046287; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:CzDxg1p/x6yX4P1NG66iVbXXF5wqejlN@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SEDkqN046051 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:13:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.109] (206-124-5-109.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.109]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8SE6uh05948 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:06:56 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <02a501c6e304$ac9ea410$fc470144@Mischele> References: <02a501c6e304$ac9ea410$fc470144@Mischele> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <33838641b373b99591553cc3d541252c@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] a christmas carol Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:13:48 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451BD8C6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:14:33 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4de6a20f-c5f7-45c8-98ad-4ddbcbc6b4da Status: RO Xmas Carol covers several time periods, from the 1820s, I think, up to the 1860s. There are some 1860s patterns out there and I think I saw an early 1800s pattern while looking the other day. You don't have to build them all, do you? That would be a tremendous undertaking. I would try to borrow or rent most of them or if you have a stock, see what you have on hand you could modify. When I costumed the play several years ago for a melodrama theatre, we even changed the period, so that it went from the 1860s up through the 1890s, or something like that, since our existing stock was mostly 1890s anyhow. Then I modified existing stock. For example, I found a 50s style prom dress that worked as an 1860s style with some work, and I found an old empire style dress that became an 1820s dress. I find it fun and challenging to rebuild garments that way. Sylrog On Sep 28, 2006, at 7:47 AM, Lyonet wrote: > Greetings, > > I have been asked to be the head (gulp) of costuming for "A Christmas > Carol" styled play. > I know very little about this time period. The costumes only need to > past the 20' rule. > Are there any big 3 patterns that would work? > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Lyonet (who would be happy not to be in charge of this venture) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 10:29:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SETbvQ029608 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:29:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SETUor017241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:29:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SESwPk028759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:28:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SESs6p063253; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:28:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8SESpF0063083 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: (qmail 73623 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2006 14:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@71.142.202.231 with plain) by smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2006 14:28:45 -0000 Message-ID: <451BDC18.4020100@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:28:40 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: american victorian houses Re: [h-cost] Deadwood References: <451B926E02000014000C1638@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <451B926E02000014000C1638@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451BDC4A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:29:37 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 6594b9a8-14cb-4cc5-a286-4703e9315711 Status: RO Here's what I think of for American Victorian houses, especially the painted ones. http://www.butteamerica.com/pladies.htm or the pineapple house on this page http://www.noehill.com/sf/alta/default.asp gables http://community.webshots.com/album/441222666CUBxOm liz young Kate M Bunting wrote: > Sharon, I'm puzzled by your comment on Victorian houses. There are > thousands of houses in the UK that we would describe as Victorian (I > grew up in one). Does the term have a specific meaning in the States > other than "in the style of the mid-late 19th century"? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> "Sharon L. Krossa" 27/09/2006 > 21:32 >>> > -- I'm not sure there are any > Victorian houses in the UK, in the sense of the particular housing > design style known as Victorian, but there are tons in the US. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 10:40:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SEee7s029893 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:40:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SEebpe024038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SEdGdQ030144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:39:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SEdDBL075085; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:39:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from centrmmtao04.cox.net (centrmmtao04.cox.net [70.168.83.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SEd98H074881 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:39:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by centrmmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060928143903.VOPE14774.centrmmtao04.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:39:03 -0400 Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.145.75]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id Tqed1V0091dpcNW0000000 Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:38:40 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:38:58 -0400 Message-ID: <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcbaW/209AzdW5d5Ty+sqY2/5Sd9mgIr2bGA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451BDEE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:40:40 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7af64f38-51c3-450c-906d-10c34bd83481 Status: RO You WOULD brag about this!! Take me with you. Is this an annual event at the same time every year? I trust you have worked out a suitable headdress. I do, of course, want to hear about it. Does this group have a website? :) Anne ^..^ > < >I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of >this month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, >only in a plain fabric. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/456 - Release Date: 9/25/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 11:05:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SF5clE030495 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:05:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SF5ZMw005380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:05:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SF4DtY033156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:04:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SF47YW001572; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:04:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SF3vhH001352 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.3fb.7b302500 (48624) for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:03:47 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <3fb.7b302500.324d3e52@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:03:46 EDT Subject: Re: american victorian houses Re: [h-cost] Deadwood To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451BE4BF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: dc22283b-4a75-42b0-a923-618d702ba883 Status: RO "Victorian" is a generalized term, usually used for all things late 19th century. But Vicki was queen of England...albeit a rather expansive England. But still English. The houses most Americans think of as Victorian are also known as Gothic Revival or Gingerbread Gothic. But there's also Antebellum [another generalized term] and Italianate Revival and a whole host of other styles that are "Victorian" [her rein does start in the 1830's y'know] but are not generally thought of that way. It's the same kinda problem you have with generalized costume period labels. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 11:33:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SFXwGv031346 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:33:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SFXtTe008506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:33:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SFWrdb037069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:32:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SFWpKi032020; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:32:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SFWkxU031868 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:32:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c68.10c55b9 (48624) for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:32:33 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:32:33 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] a christmas carol To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451BEB63.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:33:58 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0737dc0d-b4e4-455c-ac04-b435c63ef742 Status: RO The key to "Christmas Carol" is to decide what period the "present" is [usually 1843] and how old Scrooge is. If he's say 60, then the Fezziwig scenes, which take place when he's, oh, 20, need to be mid 1800s. Duh! I only mention this because I worked a production that put the Christmas past in panniers!!!! But the "present" was in it's usual 1840's time frame. That makes Scrooge like 90!!!! Pretty ridiculous. [the lousy designer just didn't like the Empire waist....pu-leeze!] Also, were I designing, I would do Christmas past in all whites and off whites, with gauzy and fuzzy fabrics. The "Present" would be in bright aniline dyes, plaid taffetas and such. Christmas future is all black and dark browns. This not only looks great and gives the right feel to each episode, it is sorta accurate to what was actual popular at those times. The Past is a faded, flowing dream. The present is vibrant and here and now. The future murky, unknown and kinda scary. Of course if you're pulling things...it's hard to stick to such schemes, but worth a try. Good luck! Have fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 11:37:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SFbFZO031437 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:37:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SFbA0p027757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:37:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SFZOg9037514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:35:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SFZMRb034645; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SFZE4w034397 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8373DA75DA for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:35:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451BEBB8.1080208@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:35:20 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451BEC26.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:37:15 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: bd0e63fa-2677-469f-ac22-4d6fa7f396e8 Status: RO otsisto wrote: > Could they be thinking of something like this. > > http://tinyurl.com/e8esf Oooh! Thanks for hunting that up. Yes, I think they could be. Does this lady look pregnant to you? She does to me. > > But then, perhaps not. > Note the Mona Lisa's left shoulder. There seems to be a shear something > which I do not think is her veil. > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Mona_Lisa.jpeg One of the articles I read the other day said that part of the original veil/gauze was still visible on the left side, but was mistaken for part of the background. I don't know if they meant the viewer's left, or the sitter's left. :( Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 12:50:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SGohBq001215 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:50:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SGoe8V027195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:50:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SGniED048450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:49:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SGnZQJ013189; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:49:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SGnVwg013145 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:49:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 32so202860ugm for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:49:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=XwKp8FS8UpWGIfkHUacsWnu6cab+8TiAfx8eVVbsaT8FHXKoppn2LvhdrQ+TkSs5wFw+kxC9weBgu5d83PcvGIqJRc7fMA85tqWrXSoZTQVfdpmYxDdjmAQmucsJNX+0Mb7NVylLWL+ODAGYeyfJKpkQjeDN+EG/1KYQgfs/t6I= Received: by 10.67.100.17 with SMTP id c17mr1976069ugm; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.224.1 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:49:29 -0500 From: "Onaree Berard" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood In-Reply-To: <451B926E02000014000C1638@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <451B926E02000014000C1638@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451BFD60.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:50:43 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: bff7c2bb-af60-4308-8e91-6fad90043dcb Status: RO In the US at least, it is a specific style. http://images.google.com/images?q=Victorian+houses&num=100&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title&nojs=1 The above is a link to google images of "Victorian+houses" to let you see what that style is. The the link becomes too mangled that just google Victorian houses and go to images. Onaree On 9/28/06, Kate M Bunting wrote: > Sharon, I'm puzzled by your comment on Victorian houses. There are > thousands of houses in the UK that we would describe as Victorian (I > grew up in one). Does the term have a specific meaning in the States > other than "in the style of the mid-late 19th century"? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> "Sharon L. Krossa" 27/09/2006 > 21:32 >>> > -- I'm not sure there are any > Victorian houses in the UK, in the sense of the particular housing > design style known as Victorian, but there are tons in the US. -- Proud List Mom of Irish_Crochet_Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 14:57:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SIvUHf006258 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:57:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SIvRYc014063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SIulWM067298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:56:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SIuc8S048832; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:56:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SIuWhI048582 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:56:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 28 Sep 2006 19:44:45 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAADq3G0WBToosAQECBwIMBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:2504 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GT0r9-0002UJ-JF for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:43:35 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060928193455.03206368@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:44:46 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? In-Reply-To: <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451C1B17.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:57:30 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 009268ce-92d4-4d35-9473-ce43967690f0 Status: RO At 15:38 28/09/2006, you wrote: >You WOULD brag about this!! Take me with you. Is this an annual event at >the same time every year? I trust you have worked out a suitable headdress. >I do, of course, want to hear about it. Does this group have a website? :) > >Anne >^..^ > > < > > > >I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of > >this month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, > >only in a plain fabric. This is the place we are dining http://www.touruk.co.uk/houses/houseyorkshire_merchants.htm and the society is the Richard lll Society, http://www.richardiii.net/begin.htm who are holding their Annual General Meeting there this year. They usually have it in York every other year. Two years ago I was invited to be one of the lecturers, which I enjoyed, and the dinner that year was held in Barley Hall http://www.barleyhall.org.uk/ where I ate more of my veil than my dinner, hence the request for a substitute. The headdress is wonderful and works really well, but as I am getting deafer, the bits over my ears cause me to miss parts of conversations, and the beaded veil someone sent a picture of http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=14601 will be ideal. (It should be light enough, and the beads may well hold it down enough so as not to strain my potage! (We have proper medieval recipe meals!!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 16:11:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SKBbuB008315 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:11:37 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SKBY9A015028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:11:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SKApfC079398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:10:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SKAkp7033704; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:10:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SKAgJs033528 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.93]) by ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20060928201034.BLDU21156.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:10:34 -0500 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.93]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20060928201032.FKHT4441.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:10:32 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20060928144229.02816140@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:10:17 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200609281800.k8SI0OdB086033@net.indra.com> References: <200609281800.k8SI0OdB086033@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Natural Dyes Book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451C2C76.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:11:37 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 560938b8-8e23-4f23-8e62-07f0e129a876 Status: RO Amazon also cancelled my order and removed it from their site, BUT it is still listed on other Amazon sites, Buy.com, Blackwell, etc. The publisher (Archetype http://www.archetype.co.uk/) says that Natural Dyes by Dominique Cardon is due to be released December 2006. Amazon has done this kind of thing before when a book is delayed in publication and the release date has been changed. I emailed Amazon and protested. Beth Matney At 01:00 PM 9/28/2006, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:05:16 EDT >From: AnnBWass@aol.com >Subject: [h-cost] Natural Dyes Book > >Just got a message from Amazon.com that they were canceling my order for >Dominique Cardon's "Natural Dyes." I had ordered it pre-publication, but >evidently it is now doubtful that it will be published at all. > >Does anyone have more information on this book? > >Thanks. > >Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 16:15:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SKFxLj008406 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:15:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SKFuHZ004046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:15:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SKE399080019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:14:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SKDrSN037210; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:13:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net (vms044pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.44]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SKDksc037056 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:13:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([71.253.229.106]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0J6B005NXK6PJIE1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:13:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:13:38 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <00d901c6e33a$9609a2a0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <3fb.7b302500.324d3e52@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: american victorian period X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451C2D7C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:15:59 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: a82f6d51-c1fd-4eaa-80ac-5e7e7afd5997 Status: RO This is a point of much confusion by Americans, when in fact it is all really very simple. Several years ago on this very list there was a suggestion that we should create a timeline so we all know what is meant by terms like Victorian. This is funny to me, because the timeline already exists, it being determined by her reign. A close friend of mine was costuming a ball. It had originally been intended to be set in the American Civil War period, 1860-65. The organizer however decided they would rather have it set in the Victorian period! Hmmmm 1837-1901 seems to encompass the American Civil War to me. Victoria's reign is a great example of the difficulty of using such measures to define a period. Evenmore so a period of such great change, not only in art and fashion, but all things. Imagine , since this is a cotuming list, just the dress styles alone. Quites a change from the 1830s gowns that I for one dislike through crinolines, hoops, bustles to finally the gowns of the 90s. Another Odd Period name, common here in America, is colonial. What the heck does that mean? Most Americans think of it as being the late 18th century, with the Colonial House being neo-classical, following a very southern idea. Of course the American Colonial Period begins in the 16th century, with Spanish Architecture and could be argued to continue into the 19th century in some places. Spanish and saltbox archetecture is certainly part of "Colonial" architecture. Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: Re: american victorian houses Re: [h-cost] Deadwood > "Victorian" is a generalized term, usually used for all things late 19th > century. > > But Vicki was queen of England...albeit a rather expansive England. But > still English. > > The houses most Americans think of as Victorian are also known as Gothic > Revival or Gingerbread Gothic. But there's also Antebellum [another > generalized > term] and Italianate Revival and a whole host of other styles that are > "Victorian" [her rein does start in the 1830's y'know] but are not > generally > thought of that way. > > It's the same kinda problem you have with generalized costume period > labels. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 18:19:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMJuPQ011319 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:19:56 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SMJrSb031118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:19:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMIuXk097531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:18:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMG9VU074791; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMG7HT074740 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:16:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 12so313304nzp for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=PvTz11qxXR0fp6bPHrtaS7+8C2H7rdUoOpFnBeBSOppDkWhZl537XzrBw4RhbFGtg1wFKNXjp7e/LgznB7k44LwVKducfonkCo/GiVkxhL5SKYf50PPxgMoGsHPjSU6ZTQnx1t+R1dG0DmQKSZpwN4XCOtCId74PgnESA7VJIEE= Received: by 10.65.103.17 with SMTP id f17mr2620515qbm; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p4audrey ( [74.56.121.126]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id f12sm2590423qba.2006.09.28.15.16.05; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005c01c6e34b$b44c4ef0$0302a8c0@p4audrey> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003401c6e17e$dbf2f720$6400a8c0@MAIN> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pattern clearance Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:16:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451C4A89.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:19:57 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 6ca08f6d-e86e-48a2-8398-ce45a1fcbf02 Status: RO > We still have considerable stock of patterns left at our > clearance price of 40% discount. The website is updated twice daily, so > the > inventory there is fairly current. Don't miss out on these savings while > stocks last. But... but... I don't have any money!!! Gosh, Lorina, I'm so sad that you're not selling patterns anymore, because you were my #1 favourite supplier (even if I didn't buy often) - and I can't even take advantage of the deals... Well... maybe I'll just take a look... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 18:20:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMKgVX011358 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:20:42 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SMKcBq013511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:20:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMKKMJ097803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:20:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMKIZT077236; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:20:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao01.cox.net (eastrmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMKEHc077057 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:20:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llyonet@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060928222008.VOEN13289.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:20:08 -0400 Received: from Mischele ([68.1.71.252]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id TyKl1V0055SaxjY0000000 Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:19:45 -0400 Message-ID: <033201c6e34c$45eac030$fc470144@Mischele> From: "Lyonet" To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:20:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] re: A Christmas Carol X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451C4AB6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:20:42 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0e3b0522-1886-4495-9950-03542bfad31d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8SMKgVX011358 Status: RO snipped >Also, were I designing, I would do Christmas past in all whites and off whites, with gauzy and fuzzy fabrics. The "Present" would be in bright aniline dyes, plaid taffetas and such. Christmas future is all black and dark browns. This not only looks great and gives the right feel to each episode, it is sorta accurate to what was actual popular at those times. The Past is a faded, flowing dream. The present is vibrant and here and now. The future murky, unknown and kinda scary.<< I like this idea. I will run it by the 'producer'. Thanks for the solid time frame on dates, 1800's (the past) and 1840's being the present. Least that is what I am understanding the producer wants. The cast is very small and the budget is a very thin shoe string. There will be lots of re-purposing, to save money, time and sanity. I am roping in some help with the sewing but I imagine I will have to cut most of the stuff out myself, as the usual helpers dont know much about adjusting a pattern. But they got heart. And I run acrossed several patterns in my stash that might help save some $$. Plus this is a good excuse to go thru my less fav fabrics and thin down the 'store' in my garage. I am so glad for this list, because ya'll are so knowledgable and understand 'fabric-addiction'. Lyonet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 18:29:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMTaX3011668 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:29:36 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SMTXwK004576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:29:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMNHdj098398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:23:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMNGM5080670; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:23:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMNE9J080626 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:23:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 12so313868nzp for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:23:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=NcIj9ebTE5GTB0kgH/a0xtj5fZH48qUUZHQZ2F7NxPufRKNDG9c0N9MQZDnVp8Q1n8XS1s+RbVGuzwp71KmFspQjMw1HBU+aeji8nooA42JzO2Xm2ThNWhwujrnDflBiFgmRPKleqOn9NXjyX79xrpaFfb/gCPgFSDvf3VO0N0k= Received: by 10.65.237.15 with SMTP id o15mr2629747qbr; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p4audrey ( [74.56.121.126]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id q15sm2632095qbq.2006.09.28.15.23.13; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a701c6e34c$b30fbad0$0302a8c0@p4audrey> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:23:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451C4CCD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:29:36 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 013c00ae-57ee-44f3-8dee-ce159c125082 Status: RO > If they're describing it as a " gauzy, nearly transparent layer over her > dress" then I doubt it was worn for modesty. Didn't Queen Elizabeth wear such a gauzy overdress on some of her portraits? She sure didn't give birth... And I'm pretty sure I've seen other portraits with this too... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 19:13:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SNDmuO012914 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:13:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8SNDdEe020020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:13:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SNCpmA006777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:12:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SNCoA0037648; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:12:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SNCkl8037477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:12:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k8T07C9F019624 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:07:12 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Natural Dyes Book Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:13:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200609281800.k8SI0OdB086033@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20060928144229.02816140@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20060928144229.02816140@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200609281913.46228.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451C5723.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:13:48 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 3f88739f-bcbd-4b93-98f5-c87c06566357 Status: RO On Thursday 28 September 2006 4:10 pm, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > Amazon also cancelled my order and removed it from their site, BUT it is > still listed on other Amazon sites, Buy.com, Blackwell, etc. > > The publisher (Archetype http://www.archetype.co.uk/) says that Natural > Dyes by Dominique Cardon is due to be released December 2006. > > Amazon has done this kind of thing before when a book is delayed in > publication and the release date has been changed. I emailed Amazon and > protested. That's one reason I don't like ordering new costume books from Amazon. Publication dates are often delayed, and it's unpredictable at best how Amazon will deal with that in any given instance. On the other hand, since they established Amazon Marketplace I've had better luck getting used books from them. I haven't tried this with a costume-related book yet, but mean to when my budget improves. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 20:37:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T0blYf015092 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:37:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T0biRi008360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:37:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T0b8Ne019346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:37:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T0b4Z6037170; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:37:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T0b0EZ037034 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m238.in-tch.com [216.166.191.238]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k8T0PEQ28982 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:25:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002e01c6e360$854cb440$eebfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc><451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net> <00a701c6e34c$b30fbad0$0302a8c0@p4audrey> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:45:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451C6AD8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:37:47 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 1f8d70e3-9d29-40da-b414-cb1f4d72fac7 Status: RO Actually, it sounds like they're talking about a distinct style that I've seen in lots of ItalianRen paintings, although usually a little more obviously in view. They look (to my fading memory) like an early cross between a fichu and a partlet.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa > > If they're describing it as a " gauzy, nearly transparent layer over her > > dress" then I doubt it was worn for modesty. > > Didn't Queen Elizabeth wear such a gauzy overdress on some of her portraits? > She sure didn't give birth... And I'm pretty sure I've seen other portraits > with this too... > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 22:24:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2OSou017252 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:24:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T2OPVg006556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2M97P037077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2M5eF067558; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:22:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SIicOF035136 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A6A342F0102; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:38:27 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] a christmas carol Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:44:43 -0700 Message-ID: <002d01c6e32e$29fcec40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <02a501c6e304$ac9ea410$fc470144@Mischele> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8SIicOF035136 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451C83D9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:24:28 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 82fa51aa-e14e-43fd-bc74-afe1a3c49186 Status: RO Can you be more specific about your time? I do Dickens Fair in SF, but we play it about 1850's. If that's OK, I know lots of easy tricks, especially for "past 20 feet". Sharon C. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lyonet Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:48 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] a christmas carol Greetings, I have been asked to be the head (gulp) of costuming for "A Christmas Carol" styled play. I know very little about this time period. The costumes only need to past the 20' rule. Are there any big 3 patterns that would work? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lyonet (who would be happy not to be in charge of this venture) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 22:25:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2PZTp017277 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:25:35 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T2PW5G007285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:25:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2OjMc037552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:24:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2OjKi070909; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:24:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SMeg9E000215 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:40:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f28so820271pyf for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:40:37 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=T09CGqnwvK1x5SnI+Dw6sHAivC3M+iHRLfcF2xoTYT8LvlcL09tXhzdu8w7kCeiJOwAU/EFYNEbEeHKRPdw+cyu1VBJkkNu1t3RTyJPClq6FFUgkCtBuYeeActBgDajY/gWWcn/wQcVth58ScaFq2cVtMWE+p4v91shdlEXuceM= Received: by 10.65.186.18 with SMTP id n18mr2658523qbp; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p4audrey ( [74.56.121.126]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id e14sm2608796qba.2006.09.28.15.40.36; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <015e01c6e34f$20bf3040$0302a8c0@p4audrey> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060923162805.031ce930@suziclarke.co.uk><200609231244.21124.cathy@thyrsus.com><200609241406.57903.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:40:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451C841C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:25:36 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 134689c9-f8d8-4915-8825-aee9ec28c3bf Status: RO > It isn't just "summer popcorn" historical movies that get a great deal of > their historical costuming ideas from sf/fantasy films/programs. From what > I have seen, they are *all* doing it. From what I have observed, the two > genres feed on each other across the board with regard to costuming (and > hairstyles, etc.). Yeah... To this day I can't see a Jedi or a Vulcan without thinking of Japanese... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 22:36:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2anwK017522 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:36:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T2ajTh029110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:36:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2aLAg039699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:36:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2aKMm085859; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:36:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net (vms046pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2aG1B085779 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:36:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([71.253.229.106]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0J6C00D6G1VWNWN3@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:35:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:35:57 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: Re: [h-cost] a christmas carol To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <001f01c6e36f$fe7a22d0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <002d01c6e32e$29fcec40$0200a8c0@bob3pc> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451C86BD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:36:49 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 981387a8-5f82-4df4-a8c1-cf7d88490b51 Status: RO I really miss the Dickens Faire. Ron Carnegie former Fezziwigger and Paddy West tar. Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:44 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] a christmas carol > Can you be more specific about your time? I do Dickens Fair in SF, but we > play it about 1850's. If that's OK, I know lots of easy tricks, especially > for "past 20 feet". > Sharon C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Lyonet > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:48 AM > To: h-costume@mail.indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] a christmas carol > > > Greetings, > > I have been asked to be the head (gulp) of costuming for "A Christmas > Carol" > styled play. I know very little about this time period. The costumes only > need to past the 20' rule. Are there any big 3 patterns that would work? > Any > suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Lyonet (who would be happy not to be in charge of this venture) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 22:57:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2v49j017992 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:57:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T2uv9J026854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:57:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2uVEB043270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2uTxJ009849; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:56:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao04.cox.net (eastrmmtao04.cox.net [68.230.240.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2uPII009672 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:56:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llyonet@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060929025620.UFLB25210.eastrmmtao04.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:56:20 -0400 Received: from Mischele ([68.1.71.252]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id U2vw1V00T5SaxjY0000000 Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:55:56 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c6e372$dbdf76f0$fc470144@Mischele> From: "Lyonet" To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:56:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A Christmas Carol*Movie* X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451C8B79.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:57:04 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 397dd0b4-8075-46a1-a5c1-7f652f80031d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k8T2v49j017992 Status: RO My sincere apologies. I meant to also ask which movie best protrays the correct costumes for A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens, when I asked my first bunch of questions. I am a visual learner and it would be so much easier to watch a movie, while I design the costumes for various cast members. Thanks again. Lyonet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 28 23:26:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T3QsX4018754 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:26:54 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T3Qpfm026126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T3Pipe048844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T3PdPe042036; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:25:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:+RbIj9ulT18jvCPrmPqdMIY+enKD/ntC@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T3PZsU041955 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:25:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.225] (206-124-5-225.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.225]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id k8T3Iil02089 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:18:45 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <001301c6e372$dbdf76f0$fc470144@Mischele> References: <001301c6e372$dbdf76f0$fc470144@Mischele> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] A Christmas Carol*Movie* Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 21:25:37 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451C927B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:26:54 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4e039608-0e64-4c69-8df8-0221d0dda674 Status: RO Thee have been so many movies made of this and I think most, if not all, are more or less accurate in regard to periods. Of course, each one is going to be qualified by the actual decade it was made in, so the 1950 version will have a 1950s flair, and so forth, I don't recommend you see any of them, but look instead at costume history books from the appropriate decades, which, it appears, are about 1800s to 1840s. I think I was off a decade or 2 in my original post. I generally don't like to be influenced by movies when I design a play, as I prefer to come up with my own ideas, unless, of course, I am really stuck on a particular costume and then I'll watch the movie to see what the designer came up with. Sylrog On Sep 28, 2006, at 8:56 PM, Lyonet wrote: > My sincere apologies. > I meant to also ask which movie best protrays the correct costumes for > A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens, when I asked my first bunch of > questions. > I am a visual learner and it would be so much easier to watch a movie, > while I design the costumes for various cast members. > Thanks again. > Lyonet > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 01:03:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T53mAn020750 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:03:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T53jTY030319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2Os91037579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:24:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T2Orgq071087; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:24:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8SN07MT022376 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:00:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f28so826230pyf for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=ZSLlE3qn62nKKeh0Mpc/vRUUCXwSmWjcIfoL6GgLtxJ11M4asqgiENl8BNPjuBVPgKSx18sNPWLIKnZvg55bPlERV63LVfelS9r9ZiG11PGLwMNT47oGesm0Uz/D+o8IM7zOrtrVq8FM94zzFtB00NVJHrg1HnhhwLo43h28KwY= Received: by 10.65.97.18 with SMTP id z18mr2702613qbl; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p4audrey ( [74.56.121.126]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id e16sm2655479qbe.2006.09.28.16.00.05; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <020901c6e351$d9a7d970$0302a8c0@p4audrey> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <450B2489.7070507@his.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for German Royalty History Website Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:00:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451CA931.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:03:49 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 9fd750f9-6ac6-4cc5-a324-47494cfe7ca3 Status: RO I'm a little late in answering this, but in case you haven't found it... You can find old web pages using the Way Back Machine at www.archive.org Just type in your URL in the search box (without a dot after html) and you'll get archived versions of the page. The images aren't all there, but it's better than nothing, and you get the biography to tell you at length who's designed the website (which you seemed to be looking for). " Mein Name ist Maike Vogt-Lüerssen, geboren wurde ich am 24.3.1956 in Wilhelmshaven, Norddeutschland." and etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lola J. Lee Beno" To: Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Looking for German Royalty History Website > There's a website that was in German, and had all sorts of information and > images of royalty and common people, such as Kathe von Bora; one of the > URLs I have for it is > http://www.asn-ibk.ac.at/bildung/faecher/geschichte/maike/bkatalog.html. > However, it's no longer there, and I can't remember the name of the person > who put it all together - if I remember correctly, she wrote several books > in German about royal figures who lived during the 16th century, > especially from the Hapsburg family. Does anyone know if it still exists > at another location, or if all those wonderful images and historical > tidbits are gone forever. > I'd appreciate it very much if you could also cc me in private, since I > check this list on an irregular basis. Thanks! > > -- > Lola - mailto:lola@his.com > http://www.lolajl.net | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/ > Freedom is not free. > I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 01:04:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T54LaO020757 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:04:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T54Htq010309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:04:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T53YdY064704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:03:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T53Uct050525; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T53SlL050379 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 12so333144nzp for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:03:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=jPzBuAE6RG1ZiLOI6shdY6qBdb0zaz4r7Qa92fQn7m6vFD0QFAdpgmiuigTouZJPXJTSe1wald4nyqQniFMo35DTHkJom6rLHCAoaA1aYUBLK3FyhP/We1vBCJqXIFge6mZGT7Y3uGilFUwd+CnaoGZYYJSyL+N5EH4sHCUN9zY= Received: by 10.65.15.17 with SMTP id s17mr3095732qbi; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p4audrey ( [74.56.121.126]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id e18sm3010710qbe.2006.09.28.22.03.22; Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003201c6e384$9998bd30$0302a8c0@p4audrey> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc><451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net><00a701c6e34c$b30fbad0$0302a8c0@p4audrey> <002e01c6e360$854cb440$eebfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:03:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451CA951.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:04:21 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 70e5e71a-1716-438c-bcca-b34b6063a51e Status: RO > Actually, it sounds like they're talking about a distinct style that I've > seen in lots of ItalianRen paintings, although usually a little more > obviously in view. They look (to my fading memory) like an early cross > between a fichu and a partlet.... > --Sue Oh, THOSE. But if it were that, it wouldn't cover her dress, only the open neckline. Too few explanations and too much guessing... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 02:56:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T6uBgM011171 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:56:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T6u52b020252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:56:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T6tHBO075166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:55:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T6tD4H086829; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T6t9d9086636 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:55:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 29 Sep 2006 07:55:02 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAPVfHEWBToovAQECBwIMBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:1185 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GTCH0-0000eN-Eq for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 06:55:02 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060929075427.031b1ff8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:55:00 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 15rh century embroidery site X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451CC385.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:56:11 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c83ae57b-906f-4fb9-b1b4-d69c60af369c Status: RO Thought this might interest you. http://medieval.webcon.net.au/period_15th_c.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 03:12:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T7C3Rs014562 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:12:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T7BsIA016905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:12:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T7BGHY076378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:11:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T7BEVp003273; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:11:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T7B8Jf003113 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:11:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 29 Sep 2006 08:11:02 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAKZjHEWBToovAQECBwIMBwYd Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:1270 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GTCWU-0005WY-9W for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:11:02 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060929080845.031f17f8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:09:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15rh century embroidery site In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060929075427.031b1ff8@suziclarke.co.uk> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> <7.0.1.0.2.20060929075427.031b1ff8@suziclarke.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451CC73A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:12:04 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 42e2c25c-a4d0-4072-b78f-c55f84d782d3 Status: RO At 07:55 29/09/2006, you wrote: >Thought this might interest you. > >http://medieval.webcon.net.au/period_15th_c.html Sorry - meant for a private message but what the heck - it may interest some of you too. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 04:07:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T86xpv021654 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:06:59 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T86uvm027047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:06:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T86NrG081482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:06:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T86JUg067968; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:06:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T86Cjq067817 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 02:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.11274980; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:05:44 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k8T85dB22791.; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:05:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:05:39 +0100 Message-Id: <451CE1D002000014000C17E3@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:05:20 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Missing posts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451CD420.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:07:00 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c1479b34-7d7d-47d5-932f-3e0eb69fb35d Status: RO There's definitely something peculiar going on. As I complained last week, I'm seeing replies to posts but never getting the original message. I've just read a post from Sharon C. quoting Lyonet's question about "A Christmas Carol" (as well as seeing some other replies to it yesterday), but did not receive Lyonet's post. Some posts from last week, to which I've seen replies, never reached me at all. Anyone else having this experience? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 05:12:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T9CNLI003292 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:12:23 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T9CJHn019038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:12:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T9Bbt8087479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:11:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T9BXF7050716; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:11:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T9BRfL050607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:11:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id A47FF849C8; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62E40849BD for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:11:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:11:26 -0400 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000901c6e3a7$40c9d310$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200609290256.k8T2uTS9009850@net.indra.com> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8T9BRfL050607 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Pattern clearance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451CE373.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:12:23 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 28c88a1d-8552-4cb3-8b53-92deef7e4e03 Status: RO Audrey wrote: >But... but... I don't have any money!!! I wish I could solve that problem. :-) >Gosh, Lorina, I'm so sad that you're not selling patterns anymore, because you were my #1 favourite supplier Thank you so much for that, and I'm sad too. I have loved doing this. I have met so many wonderful people from all over the world -- 22 countries! And I've worked hard to build the business, expand the pattern repertoire. I've loved working with my suppliers, helping them expand their own businesses, encouraging them, offering advice about what works and what doesn't. However, I have to face reality. Although I have a base of very loyal fans and customers, the growing aggressive competition from the Big Three with their horrid historicals, and the subsequent growing aggressive competition from the small, historical pattern makers who are now selling direct, leaves less and less market share in an already niche market for resellers like me. Despite the fact I've developed our repertoire to one of the best, which has created its own damnable inventory control problems, I can't compete with resellers for the Big Three like Joanne's in the US, and Fabricland in Canada, who have sales for $0.99 patterns! A pattern that retails for me at $20.00, usually has cost me anywhere between $10.00 and $15.00, and even though I run a lean machine by way of overhead, I still can't compete with a $0.99 pattern. The fact is I can understand the logic of the majority of sewers who say, "If I'm going to have to tweak, better on a $0.99 pattern than one that cost me $20.00 plus shipping." How can I aruge, or compete, with that? Let alone with the people who draft their own patterns and decry any type of commercial pattern at all? There are days in the past two weeks I think I've made a horrible mistake. And then I look at the reports, lack of growth, loss of sales to my suppliers and the Big Three, and I know I've decided to bow out while there's yet grace. And you, Audrey, and I hope a good many more, will still have a kick at the cat for a bit yet. I'm sitting here looking at a wall of stock that has yet to move, so I imagine it will be at least three weeks before my stock dwindles down to the point there are only dozens instead of hundreds. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 05:30:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T9Uctm007337 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:30:38 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8T9UYmQ000585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T9UHPn089511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:30:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T9UFHt076937; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:30:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8T9UBGc076830 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 03:30:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.11279260; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:29:49 0100 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id k8T9TmB03216.; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:29:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:29:48 +0100 Message-Id: <451CF58E02000014000C17FE@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:29:34 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: american victorian houses Re: [h-cost] Deadwood References: <451B926E02000014000C1638@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk><451B926E02000014000C1638@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> <451BDC18.4020100@fenris.net> In-Reply-To: <451BDC18.4020100@fenris.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451CE7BA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:30:38 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: f8eadb25-6c16-492e-9563-cd4453086009 Status: RO The red-brick house with ornamental bargeboards on the "gables" site is similar in style to many houses (and smaller railway stations) in the UK. A few miles north of here they start to be built of stone rather than brick. Apart from the fact that wooden houses are uncommon, the design details are pretty similar. See http://www.victorian-society.org.uk/index.html Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> Elizabeth Young 28/09/2006 15:28 >>> Here's what I think of for American Victorian houses, especially the painted ones. http://www.butteamerica.com/pladies.htm or the pineapple house on this page http://www.noehill.com/sf/alta/default.asp gables http://community.webshots.com/album/441222666CUBxOm liz young Kate M Bunting wrote: > Sharon, I'm puzzled by your comment on Victorian houses. There are > thousands of houses in the UK that we would describe as Victorian (I > grew up in one). Does the term have a specific meaning in the States > other than "in the style of the mid-late 19th century"? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > >>>> "Sharon L. Krossa" 27/09/2006 > 21:32 >>> > -- I'm not sure there are any > Victorian houses in the UK, in the sense of the particular housing > design style known as Victorian, but there are tons in the US. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 07:59:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TBxUKL028252 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:59:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TBxRWk019252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:59:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TBwgol006034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:58:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TBwbUw072851; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TBwRf2072696 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 05:58:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c01.5c514c4 (32915) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:58:16 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:58:16 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Pattern clearance To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451D0A9F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:59:30 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 5a4c5e5e-9d0a-45cb-8846-b54940cb8895 Status: RO In a message dated 9/29/2006 5:12:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, lgsteph@wightman.ca writes: I can't compete with resellers for the Big Three like Joanne's in the US I'm sad, too, as I've been a customer of Lorina's. But the Big Three is actually now the Big Two, you know--Vogue/Butterick got bought out by McCall's, even though the name still exist. And even the Big Two are REALLY hurting. Let's face it, people just aren't sewing that much anymore. In Simplicity's defense, not all of their historicals are "dreadful"--the Martha McCain American Civil War patterns are good--very well researched. And we are all waiting for her 18th century American patterns to come out. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 09:27:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TDRBJS030058 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:27:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TDR7gZ007763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:27:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TDPgZg016430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:25:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TDPbtV084784; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:25:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TDPXSU084719 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:25:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m12.in-tch.com [216.166.191.12]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k8TDDpQ19320 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:13:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000401c6e3cb$e521c660$0cbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <006d01c6e280$884f2fa0$0200a8c0@bob3pc><451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net><00a701c6e34c$b30fbad0$0302a8c0@p4audrey><002e01c6e360$854cb440$eebfa6d8@pavilion> <003201c6e384$9998bd30$0302a8c0@p4audrey> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:33:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D1F2B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:27:11 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0016982c-cc4a-4fb9-939d-b73912d334fd Status: RO Did they say how much of her dress was covered? I just assumed the upper chest (which is sometimes covered by the veils/whatever about which you and I are talking), and I'm pretty sure that the dress styles included ones with a pretty high neckline. Of course, it's been a while since I looked at them, so I may be wrong. I thought it worth pursuing as an alternative explanation is all. ;o) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa > > Actually, it sounds like they're talking about a distinct style that I've > > seen in lots of ItalianRen paintings, although usually a little more > > obviously in view. They look (to my fading memory) like an early cross > > between a fichu and a partlet.... > > --Sue > > Oh, THOSE. But if it were that, it wouldn't cover her dress, only the open > neckline. Too few explanations and too much guessing... > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 09:40:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TDe4ep030485 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:40:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TDe1qm016925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TDctSb018362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:38:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TDcpZZ002784; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:38:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TDcljH002627 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:38:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m12.in-tch.com [216.166.191.12]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id k8TDR0Q22134 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000f01c6e3cd$bb8b30a0$0cbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <451CE1D002000014000C17E3@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Missing posts Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 07:46:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451D2231.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:40:04 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 9e95e44c-1cc4-4372-ad49-37bd4e13df6a Status: RO Not that I'm aware of (speaking strictly for myself at this point). I've had that problem with other lists in the past, though....If it's really wide-spread, it can definitely be a hang-up or glitch on the list server, but most of the time, it seems to be issues with a person's ISP.... good luck.... --sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 2:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] Missing posts > There's definitely something peculiar going on. As I complained last > week, I'm seeing replies to posts but never getting the original > message. I've just read a post from Sharon C. quoting Lyonet's question > about "A Christmas Carol" (as well as seeing some other replies to it > yesterday), but did not receive Lyonet's post. Some posts from last > week, to which I've seen replies, never reached me at all. > > Anyone else having this experience? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 11:14:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFE2CX000467 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:14:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TFDwko017528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:14:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFDJLF030705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFDCLX018946; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFDAFY018786 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:13:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3627A7670 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:13:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451D3815.7080201@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:13:25 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Missing posts References: <451CE1D002000014000C17E3@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <451CE1D002000014000C17E3@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451D3836.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:14:02 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 6ac138c4-4068-462b-ace7-ee6334be976c Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > Some posts from last > week, to which I've seen replies, never reached me at all. > > Anyone else having this experience? > I seem to be getting all the messages, but in fits and starts. There will be one post, then nothing, then a backlog of messages comes through... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 11:30:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFUW9p000851 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:30:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TFURKw008809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:30:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFTO3h033065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:29:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFTL7L039784; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:29:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFTHYc039609 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:29:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031E5A75DA for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:29:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451D3BDC.9080104@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:29:32 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Pattern clearance References: <000901c6e3a7$40c9d310$6400a8c0@MAIN> In-Reply-To: <000901c6e3a7$40c9d310$6400a8c0@MAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451D3C13.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:30:32 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 850ab619-8c92-4c23-bb6e-2cc1058f3e0c Status: RO Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > I still > can't compete with a $0.99 pattern. Those patterns don't cover the entire market though. There's a lot for renfest and the Civil War, but most of the decades around that they don't have patterns for. 17th and early 18th century, for example. > > alone with the people who draft their own patterns and decry any type of > commercial pattern at all? Well, you never had that market to begin with, unfortunately. > > There are days in the past two weeks I think I've made a horrible > mistake. And then I look at the reports, lack of growth, loss of sales to my > suppliers and the Big Three, and I know I've decided to bow out while > there's yet grace. You do what you gotta do. I've seen the market for costume clothing change in the last couple of years too. Beats me how some of the people who sell on ebay are making any kind of money with the prices they charge. Unless they are getting fabric for free. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 13:09:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TH9Lii003046 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:09:21 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TH9IVl002381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:09:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TH7Pmc050548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TH6d0k054849; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:07:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.190]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TH5OhN053427 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c2so1120631nfe for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:04:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=NQCqCFG41EhYFB8ImpP1gZPC/tItTmi4Pbuv0nxappqCG3l7vYhAld3AmrrAWry30EDPxDLqMGvzl1o48BIRU1buSJNcL+YFJCmtfiMU/lgCQXHNhCrLQ8pZwv6GPeQY8tkQzdo9uzrCc9sjiRp3eROACoL8sNhUn98Yyurl8Zg= Received: by 10.48.14.4 with SMTP id 4mr5470155nfn; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.65.20 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:04:35 -0400 From: "Bonnie Booker" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15rh century embroidery site In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060929080845.031f17f8@suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> <7.0.1.0.2.20060929075427.031b1ff8@suziclarke.co.uk> <7.0.1.0.2.20060929080845.031f17f8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D533E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:09:21 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 56be4d8a-c5b1-446c-95cb-9e589e21c94e Status: RO Definately! Thank you. 15th c. personna, embroiderer > >Thought this might interest you. > > > >http://medieval.webcon.net.au/period_15th_c.html > > > Sorry - meant for a private message but what the heck - it may > interest some of you too. > -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 14:25:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIPIiT004522 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:25:18 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TIPFsi002577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:25:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TINqSX061991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:23:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TINkTV043133; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:23:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TFwxKD075882 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:59:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.415.ae21039 (57293) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:58:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <415.ae21039.324e9cb1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:58:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT....another Christmas Carol X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451D650B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:25:19 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: feca7eab-fe7e-480c-8e71-3904c3594d04 Status: RO Speaking of Christmas Carols....as a literary genre... Anyone ever read "The Bird's Christmas Carol"? I remember it being a real tear jerker from my childhood. It's from the 1890's I believe. Lemme look up the author.... Kate Douglas Wiggin Whoa! You can read the whole thing here: _http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=WigBird.sgm&images=images/mod eng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=teiHeader_ (http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=WigBird.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/tex ts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=teiHeader) Very sentimental. Someone should dramatize and do it....just for a change. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 14:42:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIgMmw004824 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:42:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TIgJLA000968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:42:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIfuR8064412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:41:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIfqZ9063699; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:41:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52101.mail.yahoo.com (web52101.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8TIfm3C063536 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 3706 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Sep 2006 18:41:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4HjiaK/f0c7GpxoWazN++pk1KdbPJuTPyj/OcLq9yQKgP0U7YgaA93LNirkComMwio+Qz+p8fewDNH9mdWnkh1+zeiRBYqYqNTKocdpygvhaFDsGuko73R4N0Dgu0tGY4ylmljeiY452IDGmBO2zDlnVgyE6gDMre1LHBuw527o= ; Message-ID: <20060929184143.3704.qmail@web52101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:41:43 PDT Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8TIfm3C063536 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Pattern clearance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D690B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:42:22 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 9efcbdc2-2bd2-47b6-9ea7-925cf1c88b69 Status: RO You timing is spot on, Lorina. Sad but true. I started to get rid of my patterns and laces as well at a loss on Ebay. I get, if I am lucky one bid on the patterns and when the last of the laces sold, I had someone email me and give me righteous sh*t for charging shipping out high - which was a genuine error on the Post Offices' part, and I didn't catch it. I go to the trouble of making sure exact shipping is charged out. She railed at me for gouging the shipping to make extra income - heh, I wish. That lace went out at less than half of wholesale. Making *profit* wasn't an option. And I still refunded her the overage on the shipping. My 100% cotton imported French and Swiss lace sold at what that crap poly/nylon stuff sells at retail, if that in some cases. I tried selling a few Vic underpinnings and got no bites at all, even at less than half of their value. I was looking up other period costumes and someone is selling ladies ACW day and ball gowns for $325, all included. That wouldn't even cover the materials for mos! t of those dresses, let alone the labour! I'd love to know how they're doing it. Sure volume, yeah, but jeez! That's a lot of sweat for little pay, much less they must be stealing the fabric! And my husband thought *I* was on cheap crack... Off to work on my newest theoretical bodice - The Galizia "Judith" painting. I create because the Fabric Gods tell me so..... Listening to the little voices in my head, Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert (Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 > There are days in the past two weeks I think I've made a horrible > mistake. And then I look at the reports, lack of growth, loss of sales to my > suppliers and the Big Three, and I know I've decided to bow out while > there's yet grace. You do what you gotta do. I've seen the market for costume clothing change in the last couple of years too. Beats me how some of the people who sell on ebay are making any kind of money with the prices they charge. Unless they are getting fabric for free. ___________________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 14:45:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIj0gK004880 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:45:00 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TIivBO002195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:45:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIhGnq064580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:43:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIhCKd064918; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:43:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIh1QE064745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:43:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.51] (209-148-118-51.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.51]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id k8TIgxsg009548 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:42:59 -0700 Message-ID: <451D6932.1060906@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:42:58 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: A Christmas Carol X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D69A9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:45:00 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 161a0a8b-ea04-44f1-81af-e04d53846733 Status: RO I think Victorian authors churned out Christmas specials for magazines on a pretty regular basis. The one I wish they'd film is Thackeray's _The Rose and the Ring_, which is my favorite of his next to _Vanity Fair_. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 14:47:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIl7t6004926 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:47:07 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TIl4kp029703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:47:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIknOu065082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:46:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIklFc069042; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:46:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIkfKp068932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:46:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge1) with ESMTP id k8TIkboJ008768 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:46:40 -0400 Received: from 72.13.239.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:46:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <59795.72.13.239.193.1159555600.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <415.ae21039.324e9cb1@aol.com> References: <415.ae21039.324e9cb1@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:46:40 -0400 (EDT) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Coat collar question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451D6A28.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:47:07 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c7cd7bb3-5ad4-4d98-b1d6-53e2c2bc1cac Status: RO Many of you have done theatrical work, so maybe you can help. A friend wants an addition to a jacket collar, another piece of fabric put on top so the collar (not the lapels) is a different color. Easy enough, right? Except she wants it removeable, sometimes wearing the jacket with the collar, sometimes without. It's another color of wool, not a detachable fur collar or anything like that. I took on the project because I thought she was describing a shoulder stripe. Oops! Anyway, I'm not sure if I should make it a collar that sits on top of the first one, or if it should wrap under. I was thinking of hooks & thread loops (so the loops would not be obvious with the collar off). And perhaps snaps on the inside of the neck to anchor it. Is there any set way of doing this so I don't have to think too hard? :-) If it were one of us H-costume people who needed it, we would make the other entire jacket with the colored collar. Oh well... Thank you! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 14:51:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIpANf004989 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:51:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TIp7Sl020036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:51:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIoiIF065487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:50:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIogD2073764; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:50:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TIoXFh073461 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:50:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 29 Sep 2006 19:49:07 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AQAAAEgGHUWBToorAgIHBAoHBh0 Received: from 88-107-121-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.121.58]:3185 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GTNQ2-000Gx1-R6 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:49:06 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060929194737.031f9eb8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:48:56 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A Christmas Carol/Rose and the Ring In-Reply-To: <451D6932.1060906@lavoltapress.com> References: <451D6932.1060906@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451D6B1B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:51:11 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: ec44aaed-1630-4974-a8ac-8b58eb26910a Status: RO At 19:42 29/09/2006, you wrote: >I think Victorian authors churned out Christmas specials for >magazines on a pretty regular basis. The one I wish they'd film is >Thackeray's _The Rose and the Ring_, which is my favorite of his >next to _Vanity Fair_. > >Fran Oh, I haven't read the Rose and the Ring in so long - thanks for reminding me - I know exactly where it is on the shelf too. (Makes a change!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 15:08:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TJ8QeE005315 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:08:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TJ8Nw4017349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:08:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TJ86RN067339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:08:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TJ81XT093541; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:08:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TJ7rI4093332 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:07:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.146.199.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.146.199]) by pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GTNi2-0001Fi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:07:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) In-Reply-To: <415.ae21039.324e9cb1@aol.com> References: <415.ae21039.324e9cb1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <203475F4-4FEE-11DB-BCE4-0030656EBF34@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT....another Christmas Carol Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:10:09 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D6F27.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:08:27 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 62911444-8acc-449d-96bc-fa5fba4e0eca Status: RO My theater did a costumed (impressions only, ca. 1860--no budget!) reading of excerpts from SEVEN Dickens holiday things--Christmas Carol, The Chimes, two of the Sketches by Boz (Christmas Dinner and The New Year), Mr Pickwick's "Good Humoured Christmas Chapter," and the description of Christmas preparations in "Edwin Drood." We interspersed seasonal music from Dickens' time, including a melodramatic piece he wrote lyrics to called "The Ivy Green." VERY good time was had by all, and many said it was a shame that the only Dickens usually mentioned at Christmas was CC. I had flirted with branching out to include "Birds' Christmas Carol" too--yes, a wonderful tear-jerker--and "The Little Match Girl"--but one can do only so much, and it was nice to keep the focus on Dickens anyway. I'd be happy to share my script and song list with anyone wanting to recreate a Victorian parlour and present these terrific pieces--hearing them read aloud demonstrates that Dickens wrote for that very possibility--they're very dramatic and lively in the mouth of a good actor....several of the audience, not relatives, came up and HUGGED the cast members afterward....! --Ruth Anne Baumgarter scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Sep 29, 2006, at 11:58 AM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of Christmas Carols....as a literary genre... > > Anyone ever read "The Bird's Christmas Carol"? > > I remember it being a real tear jerker from my childhood. It's from the > 1890's I believe. Lemme look up the author.... > > Kate Douglas Wiggin > > > Whoa! You can read the whole thing here: > > _http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2? > id=WigBird.sgm&images=images/mod > eng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=teiHeader_ > (http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2? > id=WigBird.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/tex > ts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=teiHeader) > > Very sentimental. Someone should dramatize and do it....just for a > change. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 15:42:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TJgnYA005999 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:42:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TJgkD6012004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TJfa1h071995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:41:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TJfWoA032999; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:41:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TJfSlv032880 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:41:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 12so436477nzp for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:41:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=axakqVcdKy6RE4G1uhqq6ApJuRbVzjdhzBpABLzXA1RVXiSScXXdCLNjbP7KvpG1ztUk1mM3S8uaCWHN4jPhH8v8iSi3H/hRK30+oNwKp9BRlBiZxBxsKS+028A1fb8P5aCLb6F7OLleW6sa3XDeOeNRKaOJ6Y1Nw3QGp/iq+c8= Received: by 10.64.199.8 with SMTP id w8mr4265601qbf; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.237.12 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:41:26 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: Mona Lisa and the veil X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D7736.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:42:49 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 08a61174-18c4-4e70-8f26-7056e0eb3972 Status: RO >I have no doubt that the tech is spot on and that they have found what they say >they have found. However, since I have a more than passing interest in historic >costume and am reasonably familiar with Renaissance clothing yet have never >encountered something that was specifically indicative of about-to and just-given >birth, I thought I'd toss that out to the list whose collective wisdom on matters of >historic costume is always impressive. It just smells like a Costume Myth to >me.....but I could be wrong.... There does seem to be a bit of problem in the interpretation, but I'm not enough of a Da Vinci fan to know his whereabouts during his life, and therefore dont know enough to comment on what he saw and/or painted. Wikipedia places him in Florence, tho I thought he was from Urbino. I never been fond of Da Vinci as a costume source as his sfumato and chiaroscuro techniques obliterate costume details. Give me a Mannerist costume source any day! That said, pregnancy garments are common. No one, I believe, is disputing that. I cant point anyone to late 15th c Italian sources, or even early 16thc , but by the mid-16th there are lots of good primary sources. There are plenty of "mantelini da parto" listed in the Medici Giornalli. There are plenty of jewels, trays and other expensive gifts to celebrate a healthy birth. It's reasonable to associate garments, jewelry & household items with so significant an event. There are 16th c fabrics called "rete", networks, even of gold or silver, sometimes called gauze or net veiling. You'll see several of these depicted in the last chapter or so of Moda Firenze. There's even a married lady, Bianca Capella, 1585, wearing a silver(?) gauze veil on her head. There's a teenage girl, probably unmarried, wearing what appears to be a gauze zimarra over a red-gold gown on p.109. "women of the Cini family", 1577. I'm not able to definitively associate gauze with anything other than visible wealth & formal occasions. I just cant make the connection between a veil, even an expensive one, to, a celebratory birth gift. I certainly cant connect it exclusively as such. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 16:49:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKnHWn007858 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:49:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TKnDgY011113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:49:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKmIYU083874 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:48:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKm4xk013125; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKlwlG013012 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GTPH3-000ITp-Lb for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:47:57 +0000 Message-ID: <41UyAVE9YYHFJwKL@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:46:53 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa References: <451B22F4.90408@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.06-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451D86C9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:49:17 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 3a2afac4-cb64-4972-bbae-947c2586fe4b Status: RO otsisto wrote >Note the Mona Lisa's left shoulder. There seems to be a shear something >which I do not think is her veil. > >http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Mona_Lisa.jpeg > I'm only looking at the online picture, but I think that thing by her left shoulder might be a leaf or palm or something, that she is holding in her left hand. See how her fingers are positioned? and it doesn't seem to sit right for fabric draped over her shoulder. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 16:54:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKsT1G007993 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:54:29 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TKsQpF030922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:54:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKrCQa084568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:53:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKr9Sv018902; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:53:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKr2kN018775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:53:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id E757D84A34; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:53:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2096849FC for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:52:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:53:13 -0400 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000501c6e409$496fa550$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200609291801.k8TI11I7017966@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8TKr2kN018775 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: prices on e-Bay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D8802.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:54:29 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7f2784a6-b2f6-4d90-b6c0-c58f01d101b1 Status: RO Dawn wrote: >Beats me how some of the people who sell on ebay are making any kind of money with the prices they charge. Unless they are getting fabric for free. Beats me too! Last year I sold the late 18th century waistcoat I'd hand- embroidered -sewn. I originally listed it for $500CDN, which is what it was worth, easily, given it was a reproduction of one in the V&A, a wool-silk ground embroidered in silk and backed and lined with linen. Not even a bid. Did that several times. Then listed it for $175CDN thinking at least I might start a bidding war. Not a chance. Relisted twice and finally it sold to some lucky fellow in California who got it for $175CDN, no counter-bidding. What a steal! Doesn't even begin to cover my time. It took 45 hours just to embroider, and that doesn't take into account time to sew, the materials, nada. I was a fool. And I'll never do that again. But, then, a thing is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it, as the old adage goes. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 17:00:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TL0HYs008116 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:00:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TL0EsI025404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKxnJ8085671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:59:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKxjGY026015; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:59:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TKxbg2025779 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:59:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.388.bebecbc (29678) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:59:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <388.bebecbc.324ee328@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:59:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT....another Christmas Carol To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451D895E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:00:17 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 6dcbb579-ed76-44f9-b586-a1efc9c93133 Status: RO We in America have our own Christmas Carol in [of course] O'Henry's "Gift of the Magi". The version with Lizbeth Zwerger's illustrations I thought was lovely. But some reviewers found the illustrations stiff and lifeless. I thought the clothes looked pretty good. [trying desperately to get back on topic....] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 17:11:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TLBA3I008348 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:11:10 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TLB6Ye030935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:11:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TL9m8J086757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:09:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TL8Iql034182; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:08:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TL87mN033958 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:08:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.236.f89caff (29678) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:07:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <236.f89caff.324ee522@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:07:46 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coat collar question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451D8BEB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:11:10 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 073d9113-8c8a-49fe-98b2-eca9d457c354 Status: RO In a message dated 9/29/2006 2:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, aquazoo@patriot.net writes: Except she wants it removable, sometimes wearing the jacket with the collar, sometimes without. ***************** So, does she need a quick change? I doubt it. So just make a collar she can baste on and take off. I don't see why she has to have some instantaneous transformation. A slightly bigger collar that can be slip stitched on the back side to the slightly smaller real collar would look the best up close. Or even a cover, like a slip cover, that the real collar goes inside, slip stitched down to the neck edge. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 17:46:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TLkF0e009379 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:46:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TLkBRf029980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:46:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TLjmOl091498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:45:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TLjh5R068689; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TLja93068549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge1) with ESMTP id k8TLibll011177 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:44:46 -0400 Received: from 72.13.239.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62259.72.13.239.193.1159566286.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <236.f89caff.324ee522@aol.com> References: <236.f89caff.324ee522@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coat collar question From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D9423.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:46:15 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: ec6ad04f-c479-426c-b056-8db2f07101b9 Status: RO > In a message dated 9/29/2006 2:47:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > aquazoo@patriot.net writes: > > Except she wants it removable, sometimes wearing the jacket with the > collar, sometimes without. > > > ***************** > > So, does she need a quick change? > > I doubt it. So just make a collar she can baste on and take off. I don't > see why she has to have some instantaneous transformation. A slightly > bigger collar that can be slip stitched on the back side to the slightly > smaller real collar would look the best up close. > Or even a cover, like a slip cover, that the real collar goes inside, slip > stitched down to the neck edge. Hi Albert, She does not need a quick change, but she is needle & thread challenged. I'm not sure a slipcover would work because it's a tailored jacket. That's a bit of shaping on my part, and relying on it being stitched nicely when in use. Plus we have that seam where collar meets lapel (a notched collar) so the slip stitching would not all be concealed in the neck. As I think of it, a second collar may work (worsted with a thin lining/backing), hooks & thread loops at the back, and snaps at the inside neck. Then I would strongly advise her to use a loose whipstitch on top of that. The snaps & hooks would position it correctly for whipstitching. I want to make the "wardrobe" side of it fairly foolproof, or else I'll be the one called upon every time she needs the change. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 18:05:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TM5Sve009894 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:05:28 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TM5PFg006462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:05:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TM4p5b093839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TM4itT088256; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:04:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TM4cUi088154 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:04:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A703203C014C; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:58:27 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT....another Christmas Carol Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:04:46 -0700 Message-ID: <003a01c6e413$468ec0f0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <415.ae21039.324e9cb1@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8TM4cUi088154 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D98A5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:05:28 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: ca416481-0a71-43b0-9807-5d029e218537 Status: RO I remember that one. Yes, a real 3 kleenex story. Sharon C. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 8:59 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] OT....another Christmas Carol Speaking of Christmas Carols....as a literary genre... Anyone ever read "The Bird's Christmas Carol"? I remember it being a real tear jerker from my childhood. It's from the 1890's I believe. Lemme look up the author.... Kate Douglas Wiggin Whoa! You can read the whole thing here: _http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=WigBird.sgm&images=images/m od eng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=teiHeader_ (http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=WigBird.sgm&images=images/m odeng&data=/tex ts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=teiHeader) Very sentimental. Someone should dramatize and do it....just for a change. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 18:11:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMB47Q010042 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:11:04 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TMB1gH009612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:11:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMAZl2094460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:10:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMAVSg093599; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:10:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc14.comcast.net (alnrmhc14.comcast.net [206.18.177.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TM9sJr092966 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:10:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from cheslaptop (c-24-1-85-230.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[24.1.85.230]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060929220935b1400j8qgue>; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:09:35 +0000 Message-ID: <04ea01c6e413$f3732900$070ba8c0@CHESLAPTOP> From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003a01c6e413$468ec0f0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:09:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Ottowa X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D99F5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:11:05 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 2e3bd8ba-e285-4259-ae4b-0447776cfc3b Status: RO Greetings, Can someone from Ottowa please email me privately. Thanks! :) Chiara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 18:14:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMEDW1010129 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:14:13 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TME8vv011007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMDkQi094803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:13:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMDiBB096601; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:13:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMDdaS096523 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:13:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A920103F00FE; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:07:28 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Coat collar question Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:13:47 -0700 Message-ID: <003b01c6e414$88fb5790$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <59795.72.13.239.193.1159555600.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8TMDdaS096523 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D9AB0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:14:13 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0daf8e4d-11f2-48f7-a297-6c1019a2795e Status: RO Wrapping it under will eliminate the "layered" look off multiple layers and make it look as if there is only one collar. Also, putting the snaps (or whatever you use to attach it) underneath the existing collar will eliminate the added bulk of said snaps on the edge of the collar. Such bulk would be unattractive, IMHO. One way to do this without a lot of additional bulk would be to make a single collar, original color on one side, new color on the other. That way you eliminate 2 linings. It could attach by snaps, sandwiching the coat between the collar pieces, just like you would make the original collar, but it would be "flippable". -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of aquazoo@patriot.net Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 11:47 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Coat collar question Many of you have done theatrical work, so maybe you can help. A friend wants an addition to a jacket collar, another piece of fabric put on top so the collar (not the lapels) is a different color. Easy enough, right? Except she wants it removeable, sometimes wearing the jacket with the collar, sometimes without. It's another color of wool, not a detachable fur collar or anything like that. I took on the project because I thought she was describing a shoulder stripe. Oops! Anyway, I'm not sure if I should make it a collar that sits on top of the first one, or if it should wrap under. I was thinking of hooks & thread loops (so the loops would not be obvious with the collar off). And perhaps snaps on the inside of the neck to anchor it. Is there any set way of doing this so I don't have to think too hard? :-) If it were one of us H-costume people who needed it, we would make the other entire jacket with the colored collar. Oh well... Thank you! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 18:29:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMTeg2010683 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:29:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TMTao2017917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:29:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMSSq3096190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:28:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TMSKl8010352; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:28:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web27201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web27201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.182.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8TMSFSC010193 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 41798 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Sep 2006 22:28:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=BrEJ2CUuc5V1napf1tcQjcGbogXaiZV72pKLkKQJgBh3FPXtgyMQZ2bRWlKH3SG0d9vLKJRBz7u3zst6OpDy/EnElV4AvB+MvvmAhy5gq8CWz/qq6XiMJJCGXCyagOlUZCjFktHmccSu4iluWWfF4wFn4F041UfZrq/gWzIntdQ= ; Message-ID: <20060929222809.41796.qmail@web27201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web27201.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:28:09 GMT Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:28:09 +0000 (GMT) From: katherine sanders Subject: [h-cost] RE: prices on e-Bay To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451D9E50.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:29:40 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 955d3e37-d770-4f09-a8de-ccc447a1fd9a Status: RO I agree, but when you look at the quality of what is /generally/ on sale on eBay, not everyone is going to be able to spot the difference between a beautifully researched, exquisitely sewn garment and something a teenager in Germany (or a room full of badly paid women in any part of the world) is knocking out from cheapola fabric on their overlocker. Sad but very true. Don't even get me started on my latest client's ideas for her bridesmaids - "... but why can't you do crushed velvet capes for the same price as this person in Poland?" **shudder** Katherine, who thinks we need a qBay (q for quality perhaps?) for those who know the difference "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 19:27:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNRlvL015929 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:27:47 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TNRiX3000696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:27:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNQdsc003002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNQZGR065815; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:26:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.138]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNQT5N065736 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:26:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from Duncan (cpe-71-66-106-120.neo.res.rr.com [71.66.106.120]) by ms-smtp-04.ohiordc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8TNQQSN029725 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan> From: "Ailith Mackintosh" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:26:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Secret Santa?? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451DABF0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:27:47 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: c27c6b46-14d1-4cfb-b7af-ea7295ed6660 Status: RO Greetings. I was wondering if we're going to do a Secret Santa this year. I love the gifts that I got last year - the most important gift being a new friend! Thanks! Ailith Vive omniem diem sit ultimus, ut qui numquam scis ubi ultimus. Outgoing email scanned by Norton AntiVirus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 19:44:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNiFOP016332 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:44:15 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TNiCgw008690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:44:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNhYOb004550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:43:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNhVDZ082419; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:43:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNhREt082329 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:43:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19527 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:25:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:25:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Secret Santa?? In-Reply-To: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451DAFCC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:44:15 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 8f2a1049-5464-43ff-944a-e4a41d672007 Status: RO On Fri, 29 Sep 2006, Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > I was wondering if we're going to do a Secret Santa this year. I love > the gifts that I got last year - the most important gift being a new > friend! If someone is willing to coordinate this, I'm in. I think it worked very nicely last year. I'm sure someone has a copy of the guidelines we used then. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 19:57:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNvMwB016622 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:57:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8TNvJ3b018190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:57:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TLkJRj091589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TLkFkV069227; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:46:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8TLk9rU069025 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:46:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCT5E9RAJUPYW2 for (sender ); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:45:19 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhggw0gdm1KvoZ6v840v+Zmi0= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L3GFMNJF; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:44:31 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:32:34 -0700 Message-ID: <20060929.144358.3460.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:2:1521949013 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: lherr@rightwaybusiness.com, cameronfamily3@juno.com, antir-costumers@antir.sca.org, brenna14@comcast.net Subject: [h-cost] neat idea for those who draft X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451DB2DF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:57:23 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: fda5c0bb-c626-42d0-ba91-de166437be55 Status: RO Hi all. Was in Office Max today (in the States) and came across something kind of cool. Mead is making composition books where have the page is in quadrille form and the other half is college ruled for notes. Handy thing for all of us who do embroidery and pattern drafting! Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 20:20:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0KMxZ017122 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:20:22 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U0KJ1k004070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:20:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0Jtmc008999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:19:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0Jqee018333; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:19:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (lightening.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0JnvG018263 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail1.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3944C37595D for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:19:49 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-120-238.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-120-238.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.120.238]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:19:46 +1000 Message-ID: <1159575586.451db822d9578@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:19:46 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Coat collar question References: <415.ae21039.324e9cb1@aol.com> <59795.72.13.239.193.1159555600.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <59795.72.13.239.193.1159555600.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451DB843.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:20:22 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 05940806-b207-48ed-a931-4c5f78f28627 Status: RO Hook and loop, as you say, and wrap it under. No snaps at neck, just loops tight into the notch. Or get a second coat, -C. > the first one, or if it should wrap under. I was thinking of hooks & > thread loops (so the loops would not be obvious with the collar off). > And perhaps snaps on the inside of the neck to anchor it. > ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 20:40:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0en6f017644 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:40:49 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U0ekEo007014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:40:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0eMmh011377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:40:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0eJZ0039171; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:40:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp107.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp107.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.225.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8U0eGvp038981 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:40:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 69678 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2006 00:40:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=g5vX0LFZQWhUN1nx38MvG29cghsEKCYuUP/vnZ+XmSWnmJ6HqgYRCTeuAtiyWPf4ycvPLDSeAeWQJsLSa2ZQ/EQfDlma41H5cd+DoDgYTug8TnDwFIA7SQeJWIjguTkCA1KKr4dgSeJbVr42u6ieDZdivu1F5dkA9Bzn/PpIrFk= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?74.118.28.236?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@74.118.28.236 with plain) by smtp107.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2006 00:40:10 -0000 Message-ID: <451DBCEF.2000505@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:40:15 -0400 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Secret Santa?? References: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan> <451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451DBD0E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:40:49 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7015ae52-b6fc-4121-985c-2d936d806b0e Status: RO Greetings-- Dawn wrote: > I was going to announce it next week. :) Cool--I didn't get in on it last year, and then was immensely jealous of everyone and the neat things and stories being exchanged. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 20:44:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0i26H017708 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:44:02 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U0hwVo015236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0hUHP011776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:43:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0hT9V043172; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:43:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U0hQPc043104 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:43:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1GTSwu3bts-0001tg; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:43:26 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:43:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451DBDCF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:44:02 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 82b8059b-b035-42e8-a071-a3ed737d6dd2 Status: RO Someone used Wikipedia as a source in a message, so I thought I would add my two cents... Wikipedia is not really a good source. If a college student quotes Wikipedia, they lose points. Wikipedia can be edited or information added by anyone. The website started as a copy of a 1910s? encyclopedia that was put online. The owner of the site, decided to let anyone update the information. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 21:04:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U14tPK018196 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:04:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U14qUv017225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:04:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U14L6B013875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:04:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U14IZF068426; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:04:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.225.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k8U14Fna068229 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:04:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 4579 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2006 01:04:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=p7ff9VCJeInxWAaCp+b6vAAvEpkiQ3GLNf0TmVoS/SRfweolA8qGrZ+YEPirL0jlczzmmuT+/g0fuDTwWTMrhRtJipnE51ZkO8lnemU9xsOQUpaPl5DNGSUW7cyHjy409AeTe6VQfFF4nRlaFbhDEKUaPu6ToeDl0iBSUg1HTJ0= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?74.118.28.236?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@74.118.28.236 with plain) by smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2006 01:04:09 -0000 Message-ID: <451DC28F.2010404@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:04:15 -0400 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source References: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> In-Reply-To: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451DC2B4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:04:55 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: df2b724b-526d-4a1f-9d67-5de1f4e0d3d3 Status: RO Greetings-- Penny wrote: > Someone used Wikipedia as a source in a message, so I thought I would > add my two cents... > > Wikipedia is not really a good source. If a college student quotes > Wikipedia, they lose points. Wikipedia can be edited or information > added by anyone. The website started as a copy of a 1910s? > encyclopedia that was put online. The owner of the site, decided to > let anyone update the information. Wikipedia can actually be a fabulous source--but it can also be a terrible one. You need to go into using Wikipedia knowing what it is and is not, and then proceed accordingly, using your critical eye. Like any encyclopedia--including the traditional kind--it's a jumping-off point. I wouldn't say flat out that college students would lose points for quoting Wikipedia--it would depend entirely on what and how they were writing. If they're doing a piece on "popular conceptions of X", I would think Wikipedia would be an excellent source--but not so much for the facts, but for the perceptions. If they're trying to use it strictly as their main source of information on a topic--then yes, they should be docked. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 21:15:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1FQbo018478 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:15:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U1FNMZ021586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:15:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1EvfX015309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:14:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1Etrd080736; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:14:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc14.comcast.net (alnrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.225.94]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1EpuH080563 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:14:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from cheslaptop (c-24-1-85-230.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[24.1.85.230]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20060930011446b1400j9atde>; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:14:46 +0000 Message-ID: <0f3401c6e42d$d223f170$070ba8c0@CHESLAPTOP> From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:14:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451DC52B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:15:26 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d2d0a862-1610-4745-905d-baf2e93019b2 Status: RO I concur .... someone actually posted on one of those things that there have never been volcanoes in Texas ... heh. Someone slept in their basic geology class ... ;) (And yes there have been at least one volcano found in texas and fully documented. But there are 1000's of ancient and long dead hot spots all over the world including Texas that created the lush fertile environment that farmers love.) Yeah, do not use that thing as a source. You will get your behind handed to you. Chiara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:43 PM Subject: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source > Someone used Wikipedia as a source in a message, so I thought I would add > my two cents... > > Wikipedia is not really a good source. If a college student quotes > Wikipedia, they lose points. Wikipedia can be edited or information added > by anyone. The website started as a copy of a 1910s? encyclopedia that > was put online. The owner of the site, decided to let anyone update the > information. > > Penny Ladnier, > Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumelibrary.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > www.costumeencyclopedia.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 21:30:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1UHgB019191 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:30:17 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U1UE0g005571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:30:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1Tr8D016667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:29:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1TpB7099551; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1Tm79099369 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:29:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4BCA75DA for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:29:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451DC8A0.6030508@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:30:08 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source References: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> <451DC28F.2010404@rogers.com> In-Reply-To: <451DC28F.2010404@rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451DC8A6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:30:17 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 179c77dc-049e-4d9a-ae60-e719555d5708 Status: RO Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: >> >> Wikipedia is not really a good source. If a college student quotes >> Wikipedia, they lose points. Wikipedia can be edited or information >> added by anyone. The website started as a copy of a 1910s? >> encyclopedia that was put online. The owner of the site, decided to >> let anyone update the information. > > Wikipedia can actually be a fabulous source--but it can also be a > terrible one. You need to go into using Wikipedia knowing what it is > and is not, and then proceed accordingly, using your critical eye. I was taught all through my school years to get at least 3 sources for my research. Never rely on just one book, person, or website for your data. I don't know if they still teach that or not, but I see a lot of people who pick out one tenative source of information for something, like costume research, and then ignore better or more obvious sources for the same information. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 21:47:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1leUv019532 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:47:40 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U1lbNn004303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNiRR7004638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:44:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNiOJW083405; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:44:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8TNiMPj083266 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:44:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E58A7681 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:44:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:44:42 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Secret Santa?? References: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan> In-Reply-To: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451DCCB9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:47:40 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: df70bb30-c6f8-4500-a6bd-8887ab8a055b Status: RO Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > Greetings. > > I was wondering if we're going to do a Secret Santa this year. I love > the gifts that I got last year - the most important gift being a new > friend! > I was going to announce it next week. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 21:55:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1tQYM019681 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:55:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U1tMFb015968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:55:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1sdwH019148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:54:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1sbuT029892; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U1sYkQ029766 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:54:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id o67so1440922pye for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:54:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:from:to:references:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole; b=UigFQ/XSMFsFaKcl1W4pQzNR3T+GgEngwhCDLOkP0xI6tUwob8QP6TW0LDv+o5dUlj9jKQXup3Fmp2f6wjtXz6jciJYHv1kMjSPSImvmixfYPoWAN6c8mCZxwXelGUqxaBh63we0J1O+DGPE3YhwFtiLvefOXR6ATjrHAi/UGdY= Received: by 10.35.84.12 with SMTP id m12mr1950831pyl; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p4audrey ( [74.56.121.126]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id s72sm4328511pyc.2006.09.29.18.54.30; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801c6e433$5ef753d0$0202a8c0@p4audrey> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c6e409$496fa550$6400a8c0@MAIN> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: prices on e-Bay Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:54:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451DCE8A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:55:26 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: bf3d57b2-29e7-4798-9097-e011d902fa77 Status: RO > But, then, a thing is only worth what a person is willing to pay for > it, as the old adage goes. Ah, but then again, you have to find the person willing to pay a fair price too... eBay might not be the best place for that since typically, the people shopping there are the ones looking for a bargain... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 23:03:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U33OQn021253 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:03:24 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U33LmT015451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:03:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U32m5e027786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:02:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U32jrt013837; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:02:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U32fkr013756 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:02:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=AnpOjyi/2M3IJIy4/h2ztghnqQ/O0xDC3Y1O0E1axEk7+KHGQrfZTGQjHAvl5HdW; h=Received:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Message-Id:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:Subject:Date:To:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.167.207.96] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.34) id 1GTV7g-00082H-IB for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:02:40 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060929080845.031f17f8@suziclarke.co.uk> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> <7.0.1.0.2.20060929075427.031b1ff8@suziclarke.co.uk> <7.0.1.0.2.20060929080845.031f17f8@suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <503E5960-AD4E-4013-A224-FD2E9B8F5EE4@earthlink.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15rh century embroidery site Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:03:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d4786a166ed818d7c74729c01b079a1a4be470d141f977e91133350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.167.207.96 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451DDE79.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:03:24 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: d44fc950-51bf-495f-8923-0855c012b936 Status: RO On Sep 29, 2006, at 12:09 AM, Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 07:55 29/09/2006, you wrote: > >> Thought this might interest you. >> >> http://medieval.webcon.net.au/period_15th_c.html > > > Sorry - meant for a private message but what the heck - it may > interest some of you too. It's a very nice extensive site ... a pity the site owner is still using some of my original art on it without attribution or permission after I directly asked for it to be removed. Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 23:14:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U3EmKU021531 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:14:48 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U3EjN5012130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U3EHiC029038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:14:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U3EGLp027178; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from randymail-a7.dreamhost.com (mailbigip.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U3ECc2027098 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:14:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from guenievre@erminespot.com) Received: from jsoucy (cpe-071-065-245-113.nc.res.rr.com [71.65.245.113]) by randymail-a7.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FE2B7062 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:14:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Guenievre de Monmarche" To: "'Historical Costume'" References: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> <451DC28F.2010404@rogers.com> <451DC8A0.6030508@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <451DC8A0.6030508@reddawn.net> Subject: RE: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:15:43 -0400 Message-ID: <003901c6e43e$bb4367e0$31ca37a0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcbkL/t1/1DkQbOVTvi4X6ftHu+59QADpUKg Content-Language: en-us X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id k8U3ECc2027098 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451DE125.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:14:48 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: cdba57db-38ce-415a-9738-83951615431c Status: RO > Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > >> > >> Wikipedia is not really a good source. If a college student quotes > >> Wikipedia, they lose points. Wikipedia can be edited or information > >> added by anyone. The website started as a copy of a 1910s? > >> encyclopedia that was put online. The owner of the site, decided to > >> let anyone update the information. > > > > Wikipedia can actually be a fabulous source--but it can also be a > > terrible one. You need to go into using Wikipedia knowing what it > is > > and is not, and then proceed accordingly, using your critical eye. Wikipedia's not a good source for hard data. But it IS a good source for random facts. IE just surfing around from one eye-catching topic to another to find things that look like they WILL be interesting. Can you tell I get bored at work a lot? Guenièvre _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 29 23:55:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U3tBft022744 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:55:11 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U3t7GN010427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U3sUba032507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:54:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U3sSVF077409; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:54:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U3sL4s077287 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:54:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.88.107] (helo=[192.168.0.3]) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GTVvb-0005Pl-Ag for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:54:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <003901c6e43e$bb4367e0$31ca37a0$@com> References: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> <451DC28F.2010404@rogers.com> <451DC8A0.6030508@reddawn.net> <003901c6e43e$bb4367e0$31ca37a0$@com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:53:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bcfe7624920cc47443ebd4a8e8923f6107350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.88.107 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451DEA9B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:55:11 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 4d2ba586-dfe1-4d42-96ff-f7d7d2e73f0d Status: RO At 11:15 PM -0400 9/29/06, Guenievre de Monmarche wrote: >Wikipedia's not a good source for hard data. But it IS a good source for >random facts. IE just surfing around from one eye-catching topic to another >to find things that look like they WILL be interesting. Make that "random assertions" (rather than "random facts"), and I would agree... but then, the same can be said of many other sources, some of which are considerably more reliable. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Need help with technology for your research or teaching? Hire me! http://MedievalScotland.org/hireme/ Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 30 03:09:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U79qrD017676 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:09:52 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U79nOV018550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:09:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U78m6H002870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:08:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U78mMn016223; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:08:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.america.net (qsmtp4.america.net [69.60.160.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U78h1u016156 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:08:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from [65.125.64.149] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp4.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GTWra-0000m6-Jv for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:54:10 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.0.20060929234607.01950b00@justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:46:17 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Secret Santa?? In-Reply-To: <451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> References: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan> <451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451E183D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:09:52 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: a8689601-19cb-48b1-9c20-93e82d11789c Status: RO At 06:44 PM 9/29/2006, you wrote: >Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > >>Greetings. >>I was wondering if we're going to do a Secret Santa this year. I >>love the gifts that I got last year - the most important gift being >>a new friend! > >I was going to announce it next week. :) > Count me in. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 30 03:21:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U7LtKm020675 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:21:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U7Lp2U022391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:21:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U7LZJc004141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:21:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U7LYKa023476; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:21:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U7LUuV023439 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:21:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C28EC3D946 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:21:29 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:21:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <41UyAVE9YYHFJwKL@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451E1B0F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:21:55 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 0c8eef54-d7be-4e30-948a-c1200b6d2d48 Status: RO -----Original Message----- >http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Mona_Lisa.jpeg > I'm only looking at the online picture, but I think that thing by her left shoulder might be a leaf or palm or something, that she is holding in her left hand. See how her fingers are positioned? and it doesn't seem to sit right for fabric draped over her shoulder. Jean There is nothing in her hands. Lets try this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Mona_Lisa.jpg On her left upper arm there appears to be a dark shear material covering the arm and that you can see what looks like the chemise sleeve between the armseye and the sleeve. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 30 05:53:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U9rU8j012145 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 05:53:30 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8U9rRNf009314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 05:53:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U74EXY001584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:09:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U6jZr5001390; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:45:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.america.net (qsmtp4.america.net [69.60.160.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8U4sBI0044851 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:55:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from [65.125.64.149] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp4.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GTWra-0000m6-Jv for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:54:10 -0400 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.0.20060929234607.01950b00@justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:46:17 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Secret Santa?? In-Reply-To: <451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> References: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan> <451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451E3E97.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 05:53:31 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 09839c7c-0055-449c-b580-3c7a2fc12931 Status: RO At 06:44 PM 9/29/2006, you wrote: >Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > >>Greetings. >>I was wondering if we're going to do a Secret Santa this year. I >>love the gifts that I got last year - the most important gift being >>a new friend! > >I was going to announce it next week. :) > Count me in. Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 30 09:49:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UDnvS7032195 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:49:57 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8UDnsKE008994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:49:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UDn7Xs038839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 07:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UDn37n050382; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 07:49:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UDn02h050314 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 07:49:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from m.p.decker@att.net) Received: from toshibauser (49.birmingham-06rh15rt.al.dial-access.att.net[12.74.177.49]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <20060930134853111004aolge>; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:48:54 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01c6e497$22b0bb00$31b14a0c@toshibauser> From: "margaret" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan><451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> <7.0.0.16.0.20060929234607.01950b00@justinanimator.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Secret Santa?? Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 08:48:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451E7602.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:49:57 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 55cdccfa-e764-427a-acd6-6377855beeae Status: RO I'm fairly new to the list. Tell me more. Margaret: >>Ailith Mackintosh wrote: >> >>>Greetings. >>>I was wondering if we're going to do a Secret Santa this year. I >>>love the gifts that I got last year - the most important gift being >>>a new friend! >> >>I was going to announce it next week. :) >> > Count me in. > Genie > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 30 11:14:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UFE3GX001865 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:14:03 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k8UFE0ou018513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:14:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UFDDHU046459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UFD9DB004372; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:13:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxv2.wvu.edu (mxv2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.123]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UFD3aS004244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:13:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxv2.wvu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UFCvxJ025997 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:12:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:12:57 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:11:56 -0400 References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060917140541.0395fd80@suziclarke.co.uk> <004201c6e30b$d545baa0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> <7.0.1.0.2.20060929075427.031b1ff8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20060930T111156Z_610A000E0000@mail.wvu.edu> From: "Rhonda Donaldson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15rh century embroidery site To: "Costume, Historical" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0147893297==" Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451E89B8.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 11:14:04 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 5598b644-0749-440f-83c6-4dd2d8b90a02 Status: RO --===============0147893297== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Y29vbCEhISAgV2F5IENvb2wuLi50aGFua3MgZm9yIHNoYXJpbmcgOikNCg0KUmhvbmRhICBLLiBE b25hbGRzb24gIE1MSVMNCkxUQSBJSQ0KUHJlc2VydmF0aW9uIEd1cnUNCkUtUmVzZXJ2ZXMgSnIu IEd1cnUgDQpEb3dudG93biBDYW1wdXMgTGlicmFyeQ0KQWNjZXNzIFNlcnZpY2VzIA0KUCBPIEJv eCA2MDY5DQpNb3JnYW50b3duLCBXVg0KMjY1MDYNCjI5My00MDQwIHg0MDk0DQoyOTMtMjY0MA0K cmhvbmRhLmRvbmFsZHNvbkBtYWlsLnd2dS5lZHUNCg0KIkJld2FyZSBob3cgeW91IHBhc3MganVk Z2VtZW50IG9uIHlvdXIgc3VwZXJpb3JzIGF0IGxlYXN0IHVudGlsIHlvdSBrbm93DQpob3cgdG8g cHV0IHlvdXJzZWxmIGluIHRoZWlyIHBsYWNlIGFuZCBzZWUgZnJvbSB0aGVpciB2aWV3LiINCg0K IldpdGhvdXQgY2hhbmdlLCBzb21ldGhpbmcgc2xlZXBzIGluc2lkZSB1cywgYW5kIHNlbGRvbQ0K YXdha2Vucy4gVGhlIHNsZWVwZXIgbXVzdCBhd2FrZW4uIg0KLS1GcmFuayBIZXJiZXJ0DQoNCiBX ZWluZXIncyBMYXcgb2YgTGlicmFyaWVzOiBUaGVyZSBhcmUgbm8gYW5zd2Vycywgb25seQ0KY3Jv c3MtcmVmZXJlbmNlcy4NCg0KDQo+Pj4gU3V6aSBDbGFya2UgPHN1emlAc3V6aWNsYXJrZS5jby51 az4gMDkvMjkvMDYgMjo1NSBBTSA+Pj4NCg0KDQpUaG91Z2h0IHRoaXMgbWlnaHQgaW50ZXJlc3Qg eW91Lg0KDQpodHRwOi8vbWVkaWV2YWwud2ViY29uLm5ldC5hdS9wZXJpb2RfMTV0aF9jLmh0bWwN Cg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCmgtY29z dHVtZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCmgtY29zdHVtZUBtYWlsLmluZHJhLmNvbQ0KaHR0cDovL21haWwu aW5kcmEuY29tL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaC1jb3N0dW1l --===============0147893297== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --===============0147893297==-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 30 21:57:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k911vhDM017357 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:57:43 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k911vejZ018655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:57:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k911uPgd016864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:56:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k911uJSn004198; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:56:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.234]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k911uF80004175 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 19:56:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h26so1512808wxd for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:56:15 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=LK4ckZMwwoOP+9X+BX67UxeqraHlZL8oxKFxvbr/ZETTy2tc8UQPOK8hBO6DYdiGIJP5uGzV3+fgy6WpkO8amYyJvcFPuc19h1EmUH41OiLNJz9jjdSepNZYUDddgkkBdaJzoU3XkMqi2mBO30mdheyCMo/r/niQEifkZH6zjyA= Received: by 10.70.130.8 with SMTP id c8mr8431537wxd; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.77.1 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac190609301856q56076876v74bce64791c972bf@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:56:14 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Wikipedia as source X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 451F2094.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:57:43 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7cbe864a-7d4f-4f9a-ab6a-dd75a33f3bf2 Status: RO On 9/29/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:43:57 -0400 > From: "Penny" > Subject: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Someone used Wikipedia as a source in a message, so I thought I would add my > two cents... > > Wikipedia is not really a good source. If a college student quotes > Wikipedia, they lose points. Wikipedia can be edited or information added > by anyone. The website started as a copy of a 1910s? encyclopedia that was > put online. The owner of the site, decided to let anyone update the > information. Agreed, Wikipedia isn't considered a good source. However, I would put forth that it's a good starting place for more indepth research, as their entries often provide references to academic websites and books. In other words, what someone else said about finding backup - if something piques your interest on Wikipedia, be sure and find confirmation before accepting any of it as fact. > > Penny Ladnier, > Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumelibrary.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > www.costumeencyclopedia.com > Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 30 22:46:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k912ktJN018395 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:46:55 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k912kpJJ021139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:46:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k912jtsZ021524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:45:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k912jrYH029780; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:45:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxv2.wvu.edu (mxv2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.123]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UEoIaS088985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 08:50:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxv2.wvu.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UEoCmv025207 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:50:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:50:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:49:08 -0400 References: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> X-Mailer: Groupwise 6.5 Message-ID: <20060930T104908Z_610A000E0000@mail.wvu.edu> From: "Rhonda Donaldson" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source - adding my 4 cents To: "Costume, Historical" X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1668669353==" Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451F2C1B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --===============1668669353==-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 30 23:17:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k913HQrW019049 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:17:26 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k913HNR4025249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k913GAYC024209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k913G7hl047163; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:16:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s17.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s17.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k913G4R3047086 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:16:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.80]) by bay0-omc2-s17.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:15:59 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:15:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 71.116.62.245 by BAY106-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 01 Oct 2006 03:15:57 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.116.62.245] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001d01c6e429$6cf42710$6400a8c0@momlaptop> <20060930T104908Z_610A000E0000@mail.wvu.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wikipedia as a source - adding my 4 cents Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:16:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:16:01 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2006 03:15:59.0106 (UTC) FILETIME=[EAA82E20:01C6E507] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 451F3343.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 23:17:27 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 7e4104f4-0088-4eee-8971-18d2fb5e66ca Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id k913HQrW019049 Status: RO Actually, what I like about Wikipedia is their art collection: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:The_Yorck_Project Full of nice pictures of people wearing clothes! Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Oct 1 00:47:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k914kw5T021072 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 2006 00:46:58 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k914ktaf007586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 1 Oct 2006 00:46:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k912kJ2l021592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k912kIMf030042; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:46:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k8UF0mHE096079 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:00:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3A7A75D9 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:00:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <451E86AD.5090603@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:01:01 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Secret Santa?? References: <007801c6e41e$af34c220$0202a8c0@Duncan><451DAFEA.1020805@reddawn.net> <7.0.0.16.0.20060929234607.01950b00@justinanimator.com> <002a01c6e497$22b0bb00$31b14a0c@toshibauser> In-Reply-To: <002a01c6e497$22b0bb00$31b14a0c@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.4, clamav-milter version 0.88.4 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 451F483F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 01 Oct 2006 00:46:58 -0400 (EDT) X-UUID: 78742c67-9f87-445f-940e-aa777d95ac00 Status: RO margaret wrote: > I'm fairly new to the list. Tell me more. Margaret: > Last year we exchanged gifts among list members. I coordinated all the names and addresses. Everyone seems to have enjoyed making new frends. If you'd like to play this year, keep an eye out for an announcement next week. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume