From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 01:18:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA16IIVw026286 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 01:18:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA16IFgV002611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 01:18:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA16HLM2052796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:17:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA16HBGU078021; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:17:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA16H6pC077930 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:17:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1Gf9PJ43H7-0004Ps; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 01:17:03 -0500 Message-ID: <005d01c6fd7d$5363da30$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <574.7cb15c60.32794782@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 01:16:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45483C27.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 01:18:18 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7642516b-025d-46d1-875f-5f4627721216 Status: RO Ann Wass, Did you go to that regional Costume Society meeting in Baltimore when they had the Ballet Russes costumes at the Fine Arts Museum? If so, did you tour Evergreen and recall the artist who painted the attic theater? I was watching a show on HGTV about the best bathrooms in the world. Evergreen's bathroom was named best bathroom in the world! I am interested in what seems to be a trend of artist painting attics in the 1920s. The John and Mabel Ringling Mansion attic in Sarasota, Florida was painted by a popular illustrator of children's books. He also painted sets for the Broadway plays in the 1920s. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 04:59:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA19xsi9006225 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:59:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA19xoJ7018636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:59:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA19vTIF081592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 02:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA19vNGE038122; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 02:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA19vKhW038012 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 02:57:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cd9.1c04bc0 (40522) for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:57:06 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 04:57:06 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costume books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5326 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45487016.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 04:59:54 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8c597c99-d006-47b4-9407-5b0001445e1a Status: RO In a message dated 11/1/2006 1:18:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: Did you go to that regional Costume Society meeting in Baltimore when they had the Ballet Russes costumes at the Fine Arts Museum? If so, did you tour Evergreen and recall the artist who painted the attic theater? No, I wasn't able to do that part of the meeting. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 07:39:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1CdNDN002928 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 07:39:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA1CdJTq027630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 07:39:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1CcpGZ011588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 05:38:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1CcnhI080491; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 05:38:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA164Cqg069402 for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:04:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1Gf9Cs22UU-0003r1; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 01:04:11 -0500 Message-ID: <005501c6fd7b$87859080$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200610301906.k9UJ0j18029245@net.indra.com> <8C8CB188D7437D7-AE4-AAC7@FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 01:04:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=24% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Past Theater Costume Design Resources X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45489578.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:39:23 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 695965de-cd33-43c8-a0f4-b82b3e10ad8a Status: RO I am always am in search of antique theater costume designs. I often run across theater costumes designed by big name fashion designers in the 1920s in L'Art de Mode magazine. I find these magazines on eBay. I have a pretty good collection of this magazine from 1900s-1920s. I have rarely seen the designer theater costumes in the 1890s-1910s L'Art magazine issues. My suggestion is that if you find these magazines on eBay, write the seller and ask if the theater designs are in the magazine before purchasing. These magazines are in French but does provide an English translation under the illustrations. Delineator magazine also covers interviews and photos of actors/actresses. Most of these, I recall, are from the 1890s-1920s. Artists of the 1920s also were known to design for theater. Bakst and Matisse were known for their designs for the Ballets Russes. I saw some of these costumes at the Baltimore Museum of Fine Arts exhibit a few years ago. They had a big exhibit of them. The Evergreen Mansion in Baltimore has several renderings of theatre costume designs by these artists. They have a special room for these. If you are in Baltimore, this mansion is a must-see. The last owner of the mansion hired big name artists from the 1920s-1950s to paint in her home. They also had to give her painting lessons. Her attic was transformed into a theater painted by Bakst or Matisse... but memory seems to recall it was Bakst. Evergreen is now owned by John Hopkins University. The property is located next door to the university. There is a book out about Bakst Ballets Russe costume designs. This past week, I purchased at Blockbusters a used DVD titled Ballet Russes. It is a history from the beginning of the company until the 1950s. The only artist costumes shown was Matisse. But the antique footage of the Ballets and the costumes is really nice. If you are in the U.S. and would like to borrow the DVD, let me know off-list. I don't know how hard the DVD is to find. It was very popular for actresses to be photographed in their costumes. In the late 1900s-1910s these can be seen in a photo postcard format. There are also cabinet card photos from the 1890s-1900s. I find them frequently at antique shows and at my favorite local antique publication shop carries them.. I purchased a Parisian illustrator's original rendering collection for plays from the 1890s-1902. These renderings were also published in magazines, but I do not know which magazines. They are stunningly beautiful and the colors are very vivid. One day, I will get these renderings online. It is quite a large collection. Each plate has 5-6 of the character's costumes for French plays. I have two antique books on theater costumes. I can't locate them at the moment. My office is torn apart in a reorganization project. I got more bookshelves!!! YIPPEE!!! This project won't be completed until the end of November. When I finish this project, I will post the names of the books to the list. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 10:40:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1FeDtA008906 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:40:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA1Fe8Ud008784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:40:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1FcHXE043564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 08:38:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1Fbun6059615; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 08:37:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep33.mail.dk (fep33.mail.dk [80.160.76.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1FbX28058949 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 08:37:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep40.mail.dk ([195.41.46.140]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20061101153710.YTEW7625.fep33.mail.dk@fep40.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:37:10 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.118]) by fep40.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061101153710.XYAW16068.fep40.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:37:10 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c6fdcb$a621cfe0$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061031211038.032b56a0@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question re Robe a la Francaise Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:37:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep40.mail.dk from [80.164.110.118] at Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:37:08 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4548BFD8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:40:13 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d0ce1fde-6672-4e74-a7a8-d21517611a50 Status: RO Hi Suzi, I have never seen any without a back piece. Also i dont think a dress without would fit propperly, the sides of the bodice needs support in the back. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Question re Robe a la Francaise > > A friend has asked me a question and I have answered, but would welcome > other comments. > > She asks if a Robe a la Francaise (sorry no proper marks) always has a > split and laced up back. Has anyone seen the inside of one that doesn't? > If so, are you able to give more information like pictures - always > supposing you have permission to share them? I would appreciate any help. > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 12:12:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1HCG1V011554 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:12:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA1HCCvJ027602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:12:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1H9jiJ058398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:09:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1H8ZE0059247; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:08:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA1GsWRw045584 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 09:55:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 82065 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Nov 2006 16:54:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=oaa6+bvNyJNrrUt6Kl6YKZZHHQ4jliDOpwpB5ohvq418+TUENtSRtNzYlmYgbqoex+7ZeIjQ1AWtUp9+kHtKvb3FJPwrlvNCmPS5ADcvmZVXKOzUacQl1tG+jbbIICPhr0K728p/j7dHhOARa2kfqOe88lYXg71l5ywlCaOzgM0= ; Message-ID: <20061101165419.82063.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 08:54:19 PST Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 08:54:19 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT - sources for plus size maternity clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4548D56C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 12:12:16 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ee7b34a5-c12f-41f9-b78f-71ea9a2a4f62 Status: RO I'm sure the topic is a giveaway. :-) I am stumped as to where to find a good source of plus size maternity clothes including underthings. The maternity shops I have been to have virtually nonexistent plus size departments and the online sources are incredibly expensive! (hard to justify that sort of money for something that is only going to worn a short time). Not to mention I'm not particularly fond of most of the styles I have seen. The 'Big 3' have about 2 pages each of maternity patterns, and even the fall book styles look like summer clothes. I did find a few things on eBay that are cute, but the pants are too short. (I have a 34" inseam) Anyone know where I can find nice maternity clothes in the size 20 - 22 range - and that aren't styled for the under 30 crowd? Thanks, Annette (de-lurking before my regular clothes no longer fit) --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 13:43:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1IhGQ4014219 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:43:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA1IhCPf014598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:43:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1Ig3vo074671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:42:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1IcEcv051853; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:38:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.aracnet.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1IbnHZ051244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:38:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.aracnet.com (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id kA1Ibk6u026875 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:37:46 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Harmful Fabrics Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:35:49 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <238.2848990f.327923da@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4548EAC0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 13:43:15 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f4c7216f-e06c-4ebb-a4b3-4fd4bc6f04d4 Status: RO Don't fool yourself that there Were aniline dies. They ARE still in use today and probably in your home. Many are used for the stains on wood right up to the present. Again, don't breathe the stuff. Shucks, they tell you not to breathe wood smoke because it is bad for your lungs! They are right, but that isn't going to make me give up my nice pine or cedar wood campfires, marshmallows, hot dogs (you REALLY don't want to know what goes into hot dogs... Try Googling Aniline dye and see how much of it you have around you. Be careful, work in a well ventilated area. Let your work dry thoroughly before you use the piece. Hundreds of compounds that scientists would have us shuddering under out beds (not mine, I have dust bunnies under there that are a menace to society) about. The truth is that most can be used with care. Others we have found different compounds to do the thing. White lead makeup comes to mind. Before someone goes off about the dangers of white lead and babbles about what it did to Queen Elizabeth's complexion, remember she lived to be 70 with all the sickness and dangerous things she did as a matter of course. Personally, I don't use white lead in my makeup, but I wonder what scientists 400 years from now, or even 100 years from now will say about Gatorade and some of the other things we drink as a matter of course. Wanda > sets. > > > > > Well, there were all kinds of "aniline" dyes of various > compositions, and > many of them were probably nasty to use in the dyeing process, > but not after > they were fixed in the fabrics. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 14:36:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1JaU1S015722 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:36:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA1JaPmg011199 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:36:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1JYJKV082909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:34:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1JWTf3009314; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:32:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1FXgJE055040 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 08:33:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep44.mail.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20061101153337.TLNM5326.fep34.mail.dk@fep44.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:33:37 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.118]) by fep44.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061101153336.XXXJ15236.fep44.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:33:36 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c6fdcb$26643e50$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:33:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep44.mail.dk from [80.164.110.118] at Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:33:34 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Blanche Payne X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4548F739.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:36:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5bd69d38-e347-4e97-b314-7130de029938 Status: RO Hi, sorry about this question, but i just wanted to know if this is the book that has pattern cuts in it? Blanche Paynes A History of Costume? http://tinyurl.com/yymkv5 Many thanks Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 15:16:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1KGU72016938 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:16:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA1KGRGW014397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:16:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1KD3bb088738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:13:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1KCOSj050528; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:12:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1KBxEJ049819 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:12:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67AFAA5C6 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:11:28 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4548FF75.4090201@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:11:33 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blanche Payne References: <000501c6fdcb$26643e50$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000501c6fdcb$26643e50$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4549009B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:16:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f2a440c6-68d9-4975-b29c-15c217acca9c Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, sorry about this question, but i just wanted to know if this is the > book that has pattern cuts in it? > Blanche Paynes A History of Costume? > http://tinyurl.com/yymkv5 > Many thanks Not quite. You want the first edition dated 1965. http://tinyurl.com/urx9e Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 16:13:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1LDEHh018659 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:13:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA1LD6DI022229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:13:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1LAStq097295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:10:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1L9qtl009795; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:10:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA1L9alt009375 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:09:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 1942 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2006 13:05:58 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 1781, pid: 1846, t: 16.1427s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp4 with SMTP; 1 Nov 2006 13:05:42 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061101130723.023cdff0@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 13:09:01 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - sources for plus size maternity clothes In-Reply-To: <20061101165419.82063.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061101165419.82063.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp4.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45490DE2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 16:13:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e3a19410-5762-402e-9256-1c0dac5437a8 Status: RO At 08:54 AM 11/1/2006, you wrote: >I'm sure the topic is a giveaway. :-) > > I am stumped as to where to find a good source of plus size > maternity clothes including underthings. The maternity shops I have > been to have virtually nonexistent plus size departments and the > online sources are incredibly expensive! (hard to justify that sort > of money for something that is only going to worn a short time). > Not to mention I'm not particularly fond of most of the styles I > have seen. The 'Big 3' have about 2 pages each of maternity > patterns, and even the fall book styles look like summer clothes. > > I did find a few things on eBay that are cute, but the pants are > too short. (I have a 34" inseam) Anyone know where I can find nice > maternity clothes in the size 20 - 22 range - and that aren't > styled for the under 30 crowd? > > Thanks, > Annette (de-lurking before my regular clothes no longer fit) Where are you located? Here in Sacramento I like to go to Irene's on Arden Way. I have not looked at any maternity clothes, though; I'm past that stage of my life. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 17:02:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1M2BFi020207 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:02:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA1M27Wx000346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1LvsaV005501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:57:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1Lv9YA058944; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:57:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1LuGBC057651 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:56:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.ca1.1cdc48a (43930) for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:55:45 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:55:45 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - sources for plus size maternity clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45491960.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 17:02:11 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b12e1e0b-c228-4904-8203-18bb1906dee2 Status: RO In a message dated 11/1/2006 3:33:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kahlara@yahoo.com writes: I did find a few things on eBay that are cute, but the pants are too short. (I have a 34" inseam) Anyone know where I can find nice maternity clothes in the size 20 - 22 range - and that aren't styled for the under 30 crowd? I checked Lane Bryant on-line, but their pants are also too short--29". Don't know how long you can hold out, but the official Lane Bryant site says their new shop is coming Nov. 20. Try some more Googling. I just found this, for example: _http://www.momshop.com/detail.aspx?ID=1364_ (http://www.momshop.com/detail.aspx?ID=1364) These pants come up to size 26, but only to 18 in tall, and the price is about $30. I just Googled "maternity wear" and "plus sizes." Also got a hit at JC Penney--check them out. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 21:27:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22RfSF026688 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:27:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA22RZqI005626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:27:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22QtXk057566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:26:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22QntH029802; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:26:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1JVHCl007854 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:31:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20061101193104.NMDR7353.fep30.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:31:04 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.118]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061101193104.YDXO9806.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:31:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c6fdec$51b73c30$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:31:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.164.110.118] at Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:30:56 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] odd questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45495797.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:27:41 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e99da51e-ebe6-4c9e-aabe-4d232974818b Status: RO I am reading Amanda Foreman's novel "Georgiana Duchesse of Devonshire." and i enjoy it very much. Its full of fashionable details. I stumbled about this quotation about "false fronts" wich i dont think i know anything about. Does any of you? In the sanctuary og Devonshire House the two women amused themselves by experimenting with new hats and drawing patterns for dresses. The fashion for false hips and bottoms made of cork to round out the figure, and padded breast to fill out the bodice had ben in vogue since the 1770s. Georgiana added a new element: the false front to disguise pregnancy. She showed her design to her friends; they were so well received that the false fronts were soon worn even by women who were not pregnant. Georgiana was also responsible for the unprecedented sales of the "picture hat": wide brimmed hats, worn with a large sash and adorned with drooping feathers. She had posed in one of her own design, perching it stylishly on the side of her head, for her portrait by Gainsborough. After he exhibited the painting, women up and down the country ordered their milliners to make them a copy of the "Duchesse of Devonshire's" picture hat. Also in my making of the Kyoto Stays 1780 i wonder about the pronounsed front. The bustline is quite wide and off the natural breast. Could this be because a false breast improver was added? http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htm , at the bottom. How would such a thing be placed? was it over the breast, or under? Most of the fashion that time, they used a fichu over the bust, mostly to emphasize the shape. Sorry about these peculiar questions, but i have no idea! When you look at the picture of the Kyoto Stays in the book, it dont show, that it has such a pronounced bustline, but this is mostly because it is taken from the center front. On my model (the blue) you can see that it either is made for a very endoved lady, or because it want to improve the fashionable look. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 21:28:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22SPjC026698 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:28:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA22SLQ2011736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:28:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22Rm4v057773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:27:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22RmRu030632; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1JmV6I025660 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:49:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.ceb.b1f0b7 (32915) for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:47:50 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 14:47:50 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Harmful Fabrics To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454957C5.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:28:25 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 30302c8c-2912-4a8c-b7bf-9fde23260c7d Status: RO In a message dated 11/1/2006 1:55:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wandap@hevanet.com writes: They ARE still in use today and probably in your home. Many are used for the stains on wood right up to the present. I think they have largely been replaced in textiles, though, but primarily because of water pollution and such, not toxicity to wearers. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 21:28:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22SfG5026704 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:28:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA22ScOr002841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:28:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22SHNR057896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:28:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22SFoM031074; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:28:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1KBCUq049049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id kA1KAe4j018239 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:10:47 -0500 Received: from 72.13.239.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:13:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <61512.72.13.239.193.1162412000.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <000501c6fdcb$26643e50$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> References: <000501c6fdcb$26643e50$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:13:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blanche Payne From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454957D6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:28:41 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5b3ef88f-91d6-40c8-b452-04ae5e5fa5c2 Status: RO It does have some patterns in the back. This was my forst costume history book (college textbook) and I've made a couple of things from those pattern drafts. :-D -Carol > Hi, sorry about this question, but i just wanted to know if this is the > book that has pattern cuts in it? > Blanche Paynes A History of Costume? > http://tinyurl.com/yymkv5 > Many thanks > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 21:29:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22TJcO026720 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:29:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA22TFir007221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:29:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22SW8s057965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:28:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA22STmR031308; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:28:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (88.d2.1343.static.theplanet.com [67.19.210.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA1KVGmR069981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:31:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GfMk1-0005Bx-27; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:31:17 -0600 Received: from 160.36.154.221 ([160.36.154.221]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:31:17 -0500 Message-ID: <20061101153117.7y7gygw4skbkk8s4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:31:17 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blanche Payne References: <000501c6fdcb$26643e50$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000501c6fdcb$26643e50$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454957FB.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:29:19 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f0f4efba-ad16-4e31-b2fc-2db8e87a1e7d Status: RO Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : > Hi, sorry about this question, but i just wanted to know if this is the > book that has pattern cuts in it? > Blanche Paynes A History of Costume? > http://tinyurl.com/yymkv5 > Many thanks > Unless somebody beats me to it, I'll check when I get home, Bjarne. I've got a copy that does have the patterns in it. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 1 22:24:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA23O54L027797 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:24:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA23O2cA025219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:24:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA23MeGD067825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:22:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA23Ma0K080245; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:22:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web.vaxxine.com (web.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA23MVXL080123 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:22:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from pc ([209.5.212.17]) by web.vaxxine.com (8.13.6/8.13.5) with SMTP id kA23R8iP363345 for ; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:27:09 -0500 (EST) X-RCPT-To: Received: from ppp13.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net (alderweb@ppp13.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.13]) by slipstream1 (SlipStream SP Server 5.0.181 built 2006/07/19 10:14:46 -0400 (EDT)); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:26:19 -0500 (EST) X-Originating-IP: [209.5.232.13] X-Originating-User: [alderweb] Message-ID: From: "david webb" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:26:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More related books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454964D2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:24:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 20df01b2-f3e5-48aa-9529-e72a9eba54cd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA23O54L027797 Status: RO Also published by Academic Press: http://books.elsevier.com A Handbook of Costume Drawing (2nd Edition) A Guide to Drawing the Period Figure for Costume Design Students Georgia Baker $49.95 0-240-80403-1 A Practical Guide to Costume Mounting Lara Flecker $70.95 0-7506-6830-X Character Costume Figure Drawing Step-by-Step Drawing Methods for Theatre Costume Designers Tan Huaixiang $39.95 0-240-80534-8 Costume Design Deborah Nadoolman Landis $43.95 0-240-80590-9 Make-Up, Hair and Costume for Film and Television Jan Musgrove $28.95 0-240-51660-5 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 2 02:59:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA27xP5i020748 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 02:59:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA27xL6L011756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 02:59:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA27uISk026194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 00:56:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA27uDiO014147; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 00:56:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA27u72Q014078 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 00:56:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from trixiepixie.trouble@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n29so63679nfc for ; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:56:06 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=gIb4kBpGnGC9fo3VcFCK1uFwdUn8XbY3EP2mlcKV0HsZpo3GQQjC6r9Lpq+/qFaKlau5wL6oS3Hvx0KB0fiNZDZHjB/qIJXXQRabP6tV7XqSDhZHucZqDyko3/LU/QJTOWXZ3URcgcLqPFRf7CO6rAHfAf7GARYtg8L1d9gG0QA= Received: by 10.78.166.7 with SMTP id o7mr210263hue.1162454165609; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.150.1 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Nov 2006 23:56:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30dd7acc0611012356l3801e1c9l43cdcd730e5d66b7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 00:56:05 -0700 From: "Danielle M. Dewey" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Marie Antoinette In-Reply-To: <239.1de3f21b.326f0628@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <239.1de3f21b.326f0628@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4549A559.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 02 Nov 2006 02:59:25 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 88c5dd1b-7483-4017-8e7f-695d9b6798bf Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA27xP5i020748 Status: RO Hello all... My name is Danielle and I am more of a lurker here on this list. My focus is more medieval than anything else but I just got home from Marie Antoinette and I was just wondering if anyone else noticed the converse sneakers in one of the shots of her shoes? Danielle On 10/24/06, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/23/2006 2:06:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sylvia@ntw.net writes: > > How accurate is it in terms of > history, not costuming? > > > > > ******************** > Speaking, rather than not, of the costumes.... > Well, Adrian did them so as far as costumes go, they are spectacular, > if not > accurate. He apparently used as much real 18th century lace as he > could get > his hands on. If I remember rightly, Norma Shearer wears a number of real > diamonds in her hair, and they had to build a replica of the ballroom at > Versailles...only BIGGER to accommodate the huge panniers. That's right, > bigger....than Versailles.... well, it is Hollywood. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- *´¨) ¸.·´¸.·´¨) ¸.·*¨). (¸.·´ (¸.·´ .·´ .·´ ¸.·*`·~»*~Danielle~*»~ (¸.·´ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 2 08:18:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2DICBw003200 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:18:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA2DI8Mh032191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:18:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2DC8TX004068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 06:12:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2DC3JC078120; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 06:12:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2DBw25078043 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 06:12:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so118799uge for ; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 05:11:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=KTsHmWdMkVhMTV55mECf1PURNowXjyTA1PWEtTEU3ZIi7lYYDKBMnJGXiL5q3I9ApITX22thEXR8zJZCga8hNLih7g/afJqC2FKoshz/LF34DdXMMcn+B8BT2aBNtvAFn1lGxON8QXJpkGIukqJ50Oei/lWGjCEDV/6/mLsTTVM= Received: by 10.66.243.4 with SMTP id q4mr610832ugh.1162473117868; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 05:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.67.31.3 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 05:11:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070611020511t5f021f55qfe547fa70d213ad2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:11:57 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cabinet of vintage patterns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4549F010.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:18:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4a4ecc31-3840-4c71-b83f-61913828c8b1 Status: RO Does anyone remember the company called the "Cabinet of Vintage Patterns"? It was a company that went out of business at least ten years ago, maybe more like 15 who reproduced patterns a la the attic copies that Past Patterns does. I am interested in finding a copy of their catalogue. I had one but it seems I might have thrown it out. Thanks. Katy -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 2 09:20:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2EK2so004680 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:20:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA2EJsiK032740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:20:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2EJ6Wp025460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 07:19:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2EJ1vE039196; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 07:19:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2EIvfr039041 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 07:18:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.268.3cfd6ae4 (29678) for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:18:46 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <268.3cfd6ae4.327b5846@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:18:46 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question re Robe a la Francaise To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4549FE8A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 02 Nov 2006 09:20:02 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 886f402d-85ae-4225-a337-9cc870469457 Status: RO In a message dated 11/1/2006 10:41:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: I have never seen any without a back piece. Also i dont think a dress without would fit propperly, the sides of the bodice needs support in the back. ********************************* I have seen one [well a drawing of one] with 3 ribbon ties across the back under the pleats instead of back that laces up. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 2 10:57:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2Fv8B3006671 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 10:57:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA2Fv3L7014597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 10:57:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2FsDmU057487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:54:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2Fs8lD034765; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep33.mail.dk (fep33.mail.dk [80.160.76.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2AMdsR029907 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 03:22:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20061102102229.VQMV7625.fep33.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:22:29 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.118]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061102102229.YNTF3609.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:22:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c6fe68$dca1c140$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c6fdcb$26643e50$766ea450@CPQ21932199711> <4548FF75.4090201@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blanche Payne Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:22:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.164.110.118] at Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:22:24 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454A154F.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:57:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7dfb85b1-1711-47fb-a466-d75ccf532df6 Status: RO Hi Dawn, Many thanks for the informations. I wil search for the 1965 edition then. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blanche Payne > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Hi, sorry about this question, but i just wanted to know if this is the >> book that has pattern cuts in it? >> Blanche Paynes A History of Costume? >> http://tinyurl.com/yymkv5 >> Many thanks > > Not quite. You want the first edition dated 1965. > > http://tinyurl.com/urx9e > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 2 11:17:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2GHnDo007035 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:17:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA2GHhZ3005828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:17:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2GF2TQ064495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2GBDgv053748; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:11:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2F88Yj087985 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:08:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so153937uge for ; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 07:08:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=r3iZeSVsGTuThZxXwAoC6t+5z1F7Jl8sk5vb9eTkIDoQQhm6WsnNgdwhTlB3wYqozUqlY4QAfVwEBM9e9Y9uELMQgS1j3HxErG3R7E8VUndyE/G/64O1EWK4LBEmGQQhUSObxU5+OT/ZYjZuMCq/PEE+gryVkgofvdAdCbDabEo= Received: by 10.66.221.6 with SMTP id t6mr791071ugg.1162480086952; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 07:08:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.67.31.3 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 07:08:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070611020708n38255730ib0001c31271297c8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 10:08:06 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Marie Antoinette In-Reply-To: <30dd7acc0611012356l3801e1c9l43cdcd730e5d66b7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <239.1de3f21b.326f0628@aol.com> <30dd7acc0611012356l3801e1c9l43cdcd730e5d66b7@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA2F88Yj087985 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454A1A27.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:17:49 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8ad8f4eb-beba-4b03-bd5f-f9bc2f1ce675 Status: RO We saw the movie last night, I missed them but my husband did see some sneakers. I can see why the movie was booed at Cannes. Not a good movie, poor music choices, scenes dragged in many spots, it didn't have the fun of a Knight's tale. There seemed to be no point to it for the most part beyond the story of kids running the palace, very fluffy, some fun costumes though, if you're not going for strict accuracy. Katy On 11/2/06, Danielle M. Dewey wrote: > Hello all... > > My name is Danielle and I am more of a lurker here on this list. My focus > is more medieval than anything else but I just got home from Marie > Antoinette and I was just wondering if anyone else noticed the converse > sneakers in one of the shots of her shoes? > > Danielle > > > On 10/24/06, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 10/23/2006 2:06:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > sylvia@ntw.net writes: > > > > How accurate is it in terms of > > history, not costuming? > > > > > > > > > > ******************** > > Speaking, rather than not, of the costumes.... > > Well, Adrian did them so as far as costumes go, they are spectacular, > > if not > > accurate. He apparently used as much real 18th century lace as he > > could get > > his hands on. If I remember rightly, Norma Shearer wears a number of real > > diamonds in her hair, and they had to build a replica of the ballroom at > > Versailles...only BIGGER to accommodate the huge panniers. That's right, > > bigger....than Versailles.... well, it is Hollywood. > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > -- > *´¨) > ¸.·´¸.·´¨) ¸.·*¨). > (¸.·´ (¸.·´ .·´ > .·´ ¸.·*`·~»*~Danielle~*»~ > (¸.·´ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 2 13:57:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2IvwTs011290 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:57:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA2Ivq7e023230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:57:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2ItGFx012081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:55:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2IoNHt031983; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:50:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.169]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA2InsIW031137 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:50:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so218959uge for ; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:49:50 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=n1sF6/k0c6x/1ku95DaqK5Hz7A0GrpUBbA1P8XQNcIKNgJPREnd92MDTfBd0HLGiIgXmTC+iH04nTL8/D5LgKdPTONzg2woB2jVt+h/o6e8eCVvs/eLxDQUX1KvtK6MPBd7v4sFKwdc779Wlla9N3a9hxrnX6yEG/4glhcvkzFY= Received: by 10.78.185.15 with SMTP id i15mr1171338huf.1162493389759; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.199.16 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 10:49:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:49:49 -0500 From: Irmgart To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - sources for plus size maternity clothes In-Reply-To: <20061101165419.82063.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20061101165419.82063.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454A3FB0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:57:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 42957fbc-ce45-4f5b-906d-c3c9f064a4e3 Status: RO Annette- you may want to check http://maternity4less.com I know they specialize in plus, tall, and petite. I saw at least a few things in a 33" inseam (I know, not perfect but *way* better than the 29-30" for most plus maternity), look in the "tall" section. The "plus" section doesn't list inseam. I'm in a similar boat: size 24 with a 32 1/2" inseam! If you find anything else, please let me know (pref privately as this doesn't really "go" on this list ^_^) ~Irmgart On 11/1/06, Kahlara wrote: > > I'm sure the topic is a giveaway. :-) > > I am stumped as to where to find a good source of plus size maternity > clothes including underthings. The maternity shops I have been to have > virtually nonexistent plus size departments and the online sources are > incredibly expensive! (hard to justify that sort of money for something that > is only going to worn a short time). Not to mention I'm not particularly > fond of most of the styles I have seen. The 'Big 3' have about 2 pages each > of maternity patterns, and even the fall book styles look like summer > clothes. > > I did find a few things on eBay that are cute, but the pants are too > short. (I have a 34" inseam) Anyone know where I can find nice maternity > clothes in the size 20 - 22 range - and that aren't styled for the under 30 > crowd? > > Thanks, > Annette (de-lurking before my regular clothes no longer fit) > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 2 20:41:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA31fPWB022198 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:41:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA31fLgA023224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:41:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA31eSHv082212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:40:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA31eGQc074474; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:40:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA31e6Gq074267 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:40:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24620 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:23:56 -0600 Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:23:56 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Lectures on medieval costume at CC25, March 2007 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454A9E41.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 02 Nov 2006 20:41:25 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e58e2bd8-5e4d-44f4-82af-43cb5a083952 Status: RO [I would be very grateful if people would forward this notice to other suitable lists, particularly costuming lists as well as medieval re-enactment group lists and SCA kingdom/regional lists. Theatrical costumers and people doing academic study in medieval culture may also be interested. Please copy me in on forwardings, so I know where this message travels. Thanks.] I'm delighted to announce that CostumeCon 25 will be sponsoring a full day of my lectures on medieval clothing, on Saturday, March 31, in St. Louis, Missouri. I plan to give five lectures. In the morning, I'll do my most-requested set, a pair of lectures on "The Gothic Fitted Dress" (a medieval fashion known to many modern costumers as the "cotehardie") and "The Greenland Gored Gown" (the style often called the "10-gore dress"). In the afternoon, I'll do three more; I'm still working out the topics, but I'm pretty sure I'll be doing one on using religious art for medieval costume research, and either my lecture on the V-necked (Burgundian) gown, or the one on the sideless surcote, or maybe both of those. The convention itself runs March 30 through April 2. For those who don't know, CostumeCon is a convention structured rather like a science fiction con, but focused specifically on costuming: fantasy and sf, theatrical, historical, re-enactment, cosplay, and more. There are panels, classes, competitions, parties, vendors, and lots of interesting costume-oriented people to meet and hang out with. The website is here: http://www.cc25.net/ If you're interested in my lectures and also in the convention itself, you can buy a full four-day membership for $95. If you're only interested in my lectures, or if you can come only for one day, you can buy a one-day membership for Saturday for $50. This will get you into my lectures as well as all the other great programming on that day (including that evening's science fiction/fantasy masquerade, a truly impressive show in which costumers present their competition entries as performance pieces). Registration for either full or one-day membership can be done online or by mail. The Netherton lecture series is open to any registered member, but to be sure you can get a seat, you'll need to sign up specifically. You can do this when you buy your membership, or -- if you've already registered -- you can send an e-mail to the planners. Details on the lectures, and how to sign up, are here: http://www.cc25.net/netherton.htm You can also buy a membership at the door, but I can't guarantee there will be seats left for my lectures by then, so if you plan to go, I'd advise you to send in your membership as soon as you can, and get on the list. If you want a room at the convention hotel, it's wise to book early for that, too. Feel free to contact me or the convention staff with any questions. --Robin Netherton _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 2 22:09:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA339EFC024427 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 22:09:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA339BK8031083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 22:09:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA338LoU096880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:08:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA338IqD051876; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:08:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA32J8vk011798 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:19:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1GfoeA33x6-0004Pa; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:19:07 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c6feee$6e49f510$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061101165419.82063.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - sources for plus size maternity clothes Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:19:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454AB2D7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:09:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: dd35397f-3463-469e-ad1b-77e1b0f439b9 Status: RO My husband works for JC Penney's. He says they carry maternity wear in all sizes. You have to look at their specialty catalogs. They have a tall women section. They do not call "plus" sizes, they have another name for it. A vast amount of their catalog sales are for large women, especially bras. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 08:54:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3DsJk6007318 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 08:54:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3DsEfG000720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 08:54:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3DrDjt091178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 06:53:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3DoLAV065612; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 06:50:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.191]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA3DoGtL065492 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 06:50:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 952 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Nov 2006 13:50:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=3Xvixey1KMzKgUhKNnzykNSBExXeZKKUt6aLlsP0MtuX39/NaOO2aBq+BK3Bb8/33AhLBmN+DZUlGweAX9lo7+oLR6/Hkhupa8DzlJb6k1kTfDPb5sfljjr+UefoetXN0XkLrPG8Qh6ngAcWqbyAS6dqCdad19b7o1Vg7sGOKMg= ; Message-ID: <20061103135010.950.qmail@web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2006 05:50:10 PST Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 05:50:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Lectures on medieval costume at CC25, March 2007 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454B4A06.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 08:54:19 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fa53233f-e522-46f1-b1db-d513b31a74f8 Status: RO I wish I could attend but have already made plans to be vendor at the Acadiana Medieval Faire in Lafayette, LA March 31, April 1, 2, & 3. Lady Von Robin Netherton wrote: [I would be very grateful if people would forward this notice to other suitable lists, particularly costuming lists as well as medieval re-enactment group lists and SCA kingdom/regional lists. Theatrical costumers and people doing academic study in medieval culture may also be interested. Please copy me in on forwardings, so I know where this message travels. Thanks.] I'm delighted to announce that CostumeCon 25 will be sponsoring a full day of my lectures on medieval clothing, on Saturday, March 31, in St. Louis, Missouri. --Robin Netherton _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 10:39:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3FdkIf011083 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:39:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3FdgoY006162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:39:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3Fckqf009526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 08:38:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3FcVDv075002; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 08:38:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3FcMLN074816 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 08:38:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) X-netINS-McAfee: scanned Received: from [67.55.167.82] (account landofoz@netins.net HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.10) with ESMTPA id 1124297607 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Nov 2006 09:32:24 -0600 Message-ID: <01d501c6ff5d$74b30ad0$52a73743@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 09:33:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT XX maternity X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454B62BE.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 10:39:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 799aac35-b55f-4ef3-a0c7-24035eb54245 Status: RO I just noticed that the Just My Size web site has half a dozen or more pieces of plus sized maternity wear on sale. Plus it's buy one, get one half price. Tees were $17. All maternity items were under $30, I think. I can't find the original post requesting info, so sorry for the OT posting. Denise Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 13:27:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3IREem017584 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:27:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3IRAvL001357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:27:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3IQSfD038262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3IQIcP050944; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:26:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3IQB7N050759 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:26:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cd8.1ff7fbe (60468) for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:26:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from FWM-M17 (fwm-m17.webmail.aol.com [64.12.168.81]) by ciaaol-m02.mx.aol.com (v113.6) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM021-ec34454b89bc2b9; Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:26:04 -0500 References: <200611021855.kA2IoONm032013@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:26:04 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200611021855.kA2IoONm032013@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 21462 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by FWM-M17.sysops.aol.com (64.12.168.81) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:26:04 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8CD8CA811C32A-C2C-3E6A@FWM-M17.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.168.81 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] skirt shape in 1690 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454B89FE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:27:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3680a99e-a25f-4cab-8896-fac50501aed8 Status: RO Okay, if anyone's forgotten, I'm planning this hunting gown from the 1690s ( http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg ), and I have another question. Do the skirts in this time pretty much follow the natural hip line, or are they still padded in the sides and back like in the 16th century? In other words, if I wanted to use a Tudor/Elizabethan petticoat under the skirt, and it had padded pleats, would the shape be wrong? Tea Rose ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 13:54:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3IsbrP018648 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:54:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3IsXMi027432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:54:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3IsD0r042380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:54:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3Is8mf081436; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:54:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3IrvQ6081177 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:54:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep34.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20061103185349.WPQB11683.fep34.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:53:49 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.126]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061103185349.ZQCO8942.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:53:49 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c6ff79$74369e20$7ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200611021855.kA2IoONm032013@net.indra.com> <8C8CD8CA811C32A-C2C-3E6A@FWM-M17.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] skirt shape in 1690 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:54:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.63.231.126] at Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:53:45 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454B9069.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:54:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 45fd3ded-6ee7-4afb-be24-6960e64d661e Status: RO Hi, You would have a little, very little padding at the hips, and then a bum on your back. They used small bustles made of pasted gum called "criardes" (screamers) because they made a little noise when moving :-) Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] skirt shape in 1690 > Okay, if anyone's forgotten, I'm planning this hunting gown from the 1690s > ( http://www.costumes.org/history/leloir/vol10/48_1692.jpg ), and I have > another question. Do the skirts in this time pretty much follow the > natural hip line, or are they still padded in the sides and back like in > the 16th century? In other words, if I wanted to use a Tudor/Elizabethan > petticoat under the skirt, and it had padded pleats, would the shape be > wrong? > > Tea Rose > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, > free AOL Mail and more. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 14:19:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3JJZRK019610 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:19:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3JJW3h001659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:19:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3JJ31X047391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:19:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3JIsTf008620; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:18:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3JImUI008364 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:18:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.ca9.2571dc2 (60452) for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:18:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-r21 (mblk-r21.mblk.aol.com [152.163.211.212]) by ciaaol-r02.mx.aol.com (v113.6) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLR021-ec24454b9608273; Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:18:39 -0500 References: <200611021855.kA2IoONm032013@net.indra.com> <8C8CD8CA811C32A-C2C-3E6A@FWM-M17.sysops.aol.com> <000601c6ff79$74369e20$7ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] skirt shape in 1690 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:18:29 -0500 In-Reply-To: <000601c6ff79$74369e20$7ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: chindora@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 21462 Received: from 70.43.19.138 by mblk-r21.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.212) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:18:29 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8CD93FAC0650C-5E4-A1FC@mblk-r21.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.212 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454B9644.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:19:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: de061677-8b98-4599-a87c-04d36f0a615b Status: RO Lovely. That is just what I want to hear when I am walking down the street, my bustle hollering at everyone. ;-) -----Original Message----- From: drewscph@post12.tele.dk To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] skirt shape in 1690 Hi, You would have a little, very little padding at the hips, and then a bum on your back. They used small bustles made of pasted gum called "criardes" (screamers) because they made a little noise when moving :-) Bjarne ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 14:57:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3JvvTO021307 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:57:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3Jvqp4020010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:57:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3Jv8dm055360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:57:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3Jv4mD046545; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:57:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp-msa-out19.orange.fr (smtp19.orange.fr [80.12.242.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3JI8Id007553 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 12:18:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from liara@wanadoo.fr) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ASt-Lambert-151-1-31-249.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr [82.124.209.249]) by mwinf1902.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1ADAC1C000AD for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 20:18:01 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20061103191801110.1ADAC1C000AD@mwinf1902.orange.fr Message-ID: <454B95E8.9060003@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:18:00 +0100 From: Mathilde Bartholin User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Marie Antoinette References: <239.1de3f21b.326f0628@aol.com> <30dd7acc0611012356l3801e1c9l43cdcd730e5d66b7@mail.gmail.com> <3586f5070611020708n38255730ib0001c31271297c8@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3586f5070611020708n38255730ib0001c31271297c8@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0645-4, 03/11/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454B9F40.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:57:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2101165b-ad3c-487c-aba1-d15a453d1534 Status: RO I saw the movie when it was released in France, and I did see the sneakers (though some of my friends miss them, too). I knew they were there, as it was discussed when the movie was screened in Cannes. It's not an error, though, they are meant to be seen (they are pretty obvious, I guess) : I suppose they act as a reminder that the movie isn't historically accurate, and as a way to draw a parallel between Marie-Antoinette's life and our modern times... After all, macaroons aren't period either, and the movie is stuffed with small anachronistic details. The movie was booed in Cannes, because it was greatly expected (Lost In Translation was a great success, and the shooting in Versailles had been covered by the medias) and failed to meet such high expectations. It is not a bad movie, but unfortunately, it isn't very good either... From a purely esthetic point of view, though, it is worth seeing. Mathilde Katy Bishop wrote: > We saw the movie last night, I missed them but my husband did see some > sneakers. > > I can see why the movie was booed at Cannes. Not a good movie, poor > music choices, scenes dragged in many spots, it didn't have the fun of > a Knight's tale. There seemed to be no point to it for the most part > beyond the story of kids running the palace, very fluffy, some fun > costumes though, if you're not going for strict accuracy. > > Katy > > On 11/2/06, Danielle M. Dewey wrote: > >> Hello all... >> >> My name is Danielle and I am more of a lurker here on this list. My >> focus >> is more medieval than anything else but I just got home from Marie >> Antoinette and I was just wondering if anyone else noticed the converse >> sneakers in one of the shots of her shoes? >> >> Danielle >> >> >> On 10/24/06, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 10/23/2006 2:06:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > sylvia@ntw.net writes: >> > >> > How accurate is it in terms of >> > history, not costuming? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ******************** >> > Speaking, rather than not, of the costumes.... >> > Well, Adrian did them so as far as costumes go, they are spectacular, >> > if not >> > accurate. He apparently used as much real 18th century lace as he >> > could get >> > his hands on. If I remember rightly, Norma Shearer wears a number >> of real >> > diamonds in her hair, and they had to build a replica of the >> ballroom at >> > Versailles...only BIGGER to accommodate the huge panniers. That's >> right, >> > bigger....than Versailles.... well, it is Hollywood. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > h-costume mailing list >> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> *´¨) >> ¸.·´¸.·´¨) ¸.·*¨). >> (¸.·´ (¸.·´ .·´ >> .·´ ¸.·*`·~»*~Danielle~*»~ >> (¸.·´ >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 17:15:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3MFCrM026024 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:15:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3MF8vj020482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:15:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3MEE9F079484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:14:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3ME75L095876; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:14:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail02.imt.uwm.edu (mail02.imt.uwm.edu [129.89.7.44]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3ME1xF095746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:14:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jab@uwm.edu) Received: from [129.89.154.144] ([129.89.154.144]) by mail02.imt.uwm.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3ME0wV024991 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 16:14:00 -0600 Message-ID: <454BBF23.9010204@uwm.edu> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 16:13:55 -0600 From: Julie Brautigan User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Question about back lacing on an early frankish bliaut X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454BBF6C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:15:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c17fd843-409e-426c-98c3-9d6931564ce4 Status: RO Hello - I don't post here often, but here goes: What kind of lacing would an early Frankish (Charlemagne period) lady have used in the back? Spiral, uneven, straight across, even? Sorry my descriptions aren't more technical. Would the lacing have been self-fabric, leather or something else? Thanks, Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 17:51:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3MpYFt027342 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:51:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA3MpUO5016637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:51:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3MosGj086187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:50:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA3Mok8i038592; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:50:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51309.mail.yahoo.com (web51309.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.175]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA3MoT0T038223 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 15:50:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 44102 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Nov 2006 22:50:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VOwQuNW98YRrTS+HbP7J/30EbklqI4JFcUMLFOEo55stOhAskKTbKOh76B/9A2AlYNN9aU8c/mQAcoTvnS544aCuvgvP/nGErUWhIgYKewDtZ08OSiYwAMX115XBLEnFPf22caH6uBqe6Tbu0srxLM6y7MIh1pS3FF90gOsXtxg= ; Message-ID: <20061103225022.44099.qmail@web51309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.183.31.113] by web51309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:50:22 PST Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:50:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about back lacing on an early frankish bliaut To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <454BBF23.9010204@uwm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454BC7F2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:51:34 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 76ce6d28-c7ef-44c4-aa96-6b598e3fcaba Status: RO Around 800, when Charlemagne was crowned emporer by the pope, nobody had any lacing anywhere, because the gowns were too wide to require it. The waist line (or other smallest area on the tunic) must be big enough to get past the largest area on the top of the body, typically around the shoulders or breasts . Around 1200, when the bliaut had a brief flirtation with being quite snug, the lacing appears to have been on the sides. And again around 1350, when the cote began to narrow, the lacing was on the front, as far as we can tell. (This is Robin Netherton's special area, and she has found quite a few pictures of partly laced gowns where the lacing is in the front, and a grand total of Zero where the lacing is in the back.) I believe, though don't quote me, that back lacing comes in with the corsetted era, somewhere around 1550. Ann in CT --- Julie Brautigan wrote: > Hello - I don't post here often, but here goes: > What kind of lacing > would an early Frankish (Charlemagne period) lady > have used in the > back? Spiral, uneven, straight across, even? Sorry > my descriptions > aren't more technical. Would the lacing have been > self-fabric, leather > or something else? Thanks, Julie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 3 21:42:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA42gkkc032619 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:42:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA42ggJo032244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:42:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA42g1N2020193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:42:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA42fsSr027910; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA42foTA027810 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 61970 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2006 02:41:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Mj3Xm6hKgCkHnGHY5iCJx/2kV4d3uwPlfdw7xttusgqM8IYs6tL+drsz8J9NzvqpJNyFCOyRYyHPvHtAwQQcFSWsJcia02HKJjYEMVfh7FKPAGjMGknLpSJNxKqIGg6AAkUPINpu1DyXL/I0NKQNMO5vYqWMbUrbfri5bi696oc= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?74.118.28.236?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@74.118.28.236 with plain) by smtp101.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2006 02:41:45 -0000 Message-ID: <454BFDF0.8080600@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:41:52 -0500 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about back lacing on an early frankish bliaut References: <20061103225022.44099.qmail@web51309.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061103225022.44099.qmail@web51309.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454BFE22.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:42:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 188c85c0-b167-461f-96c3-c021fe3af3c5 Status: RO Greetings-- Ann Catelli wrote: > Around 800, when Charlemagne was crowned emporer by > the pope, nobody had any lacing anywhere, because the > gowns were too wide to require it. > The waist line (or other smallest area on the tunic) > must be big enough to get past the largest area on the > top of the body, typically around the shoulders or > breasts . > I wanted to second this observation. The evidence we have for this period shows looser fitting tunics, usually belted, probably worn in layers. Carolingian (which incidentally isn't early Frankish--that would be Merovingian, c. 500-750 or so) garments worn by the upper classes also consciously imitated "Roman" (aka Byzantine) styles--when Charlemagne was crowned as emperor, he adopted these styles over "Frankish" styles to drive home his claim to being a spiritual heir to the ancient Romans. You really see this even more during the Ottonian period, when there were dynastic marriages between West and East. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 00:17:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA45H1r3004146 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:17:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA45GvDm011283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:17:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA45GL3m042057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Nov 2006 22:16:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA45GFqN033603; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 22:16:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web82209.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web82209.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.86.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA45GBPD033519 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 22:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from best_interests@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 90796 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Nov 2006 05:16:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PdTWCrE5XZo6o/+HmI4bAP4Qrh5eecs4iRFOn3EFD0+TtMzBwa5GK+u0zVRJEpZkcCPmXDtC54fv5d6CK0V43fF95wMdmAvAyN5TqdjSbG84LykvLq44nsauJsjv8FUd80L0JHIdKKsdIU/p1q63N30mzVTKU3UewDUreUUlJZc= ; Message-ID: <20061104051606.90794.qmail@web82209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.23.253.69] by web82209.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:16:06 PST Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:16:06 -0800 (PST) From: Ann M Morton To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] 1844 London fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454C2249.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 00:17:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 13bc61ed-c363-41fc-b9dd-3f0cf4ccc965 Status: RO >From the art I have viewed, it seems that English women's fashions in the 1840's were transitional between the gigot sleeves of the Romantic period and the fitted sleeve of the Victorians. Does that sound correct? Does anyone have images that they can share for the 1840's, women's gowns and bonnets? What fabrics would have been appropriate at different socioeconomic levels? What colors? Both bonnets and gowns. :-) Thank you so much. Ann Morton Live Well * Laugh Often * Love Much _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 02:37:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA47b0YL020917 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 02:37:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA47aujM007743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 02:36:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA47aS6o057798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:36:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA47aNT4030034; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:36:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA47aF3W029948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:36:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-214-19-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.214.19]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA47aAZm010898 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:36:14 +1100 Message-ID: <005301c6ffe3$e7c14560$13d6f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:36:09 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pattern shapes late 19th cent riding habits X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454C4318.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 02:36:59 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: eb487f09-6c8d-42bf-b316-a953dd110cab Status: RO Hi everyone, A recent discussion elsewhere got me curious about the shape of late 19th century riding habit skirts, I know that up until the 1870s riding habit skirts were usually regular skirts with a train to cover the feet when you're on the horse and then around the 1870s a new cut came in with a dart to accommodate the raised knee but I really can't visualise how it would be constructed. I know there are commercial patterns out there for habit skirts but I'm not interested in actually making one I just want to satisfy my curiosity as to how they would be constructed. Does anyone know of a period pattern diagram from the late Victorian era online? A search of my links turned up this 1912 'standard riding skirt' pattern http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1912thornton6.htm but I don't know how similar that would be to a co. 1870s-80s riding skirt. thanks, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 02:56:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA47uNPq027938 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 02:56:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA47uJGB019362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 02:56:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA47tr5w059573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:55:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA47to80042843; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:55:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA47tj4E042725 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:55:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2006 07:55:39 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAF/WS0XUSnInh2dsb2JhbACMSQEBAQgOKg Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:4375 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GgGNP-0004xA-0Y for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 07:55:39 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061104075326.032b5518@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 07:55:42 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1844 London fashion In-Reply-To: <20061104051606.90794.qmail@web82209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061104051606.90794.qmail@web82209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454C47A4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 02:56:23 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6ff76dfa-5c5c-49d0-9f81-a8721d60486f Status: RO At 05:16 04/11/2006, you wrote: > >From the art I have viewed, it seems that English women's fashions > in the 1840's were transitional between the gigot sleeves of the > Romantic period and the fitted sleeve of the Victorians. Does that > sound correct? Does anyone have images that they can share for the > 1840's, women's gowns and bonnets? What fabrics would have been > appropriate at different socioeconomic levels? What colors? Both > bonnets and gowns. :-) > Thank you so much. > Ann Morton I have several fashion plates from this period on my Fotopic site here http://suziclarke4384.fotopic.net/c382113.html I apologise for the lack of order - I entered them in chronological order, but Fotopic shuffled them when I wasn't looking! I have more, I think, which have not made it to the site, so if you need more mail me off list. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 07:52:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4CqVKi012786 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 07:52:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA4CqR39021616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 07:52:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4CpPtu099026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 05:51:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4CpKBx062781; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 05:51:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA44w4qg022298 for ; Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:58:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l20nb.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.2.235] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-gadwall.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GgDbX-0000as-01 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Nov 2006 23:58:03 -0500 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20061103225623.048f8bf0@pop.radiks.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 22:57:36 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume-Con 25 Lecture Announcement X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454C8D0B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 07:52:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 48e59e02-9dcc-42c2-81dc-eaffec82a005 Status: RO FYI: Costume-Con 25 is pleased to announce a special lecture track on Western European clothing of the Middle Ages, to be held on Saturday only, March 31, 2007. Robin Netherton is co-editor of the academic journal Medieval Clothing and Textiles. Founders of the study group DISTAFF, she and co-editor Dr. Gale Owen-Crocker organize tracks of sessions on medieval dress and textiles each year at the International Congresses on Medieval Studies. Ms. Netherton has lectured to sold-out houses in such cities as Boston, Seattle, Philadelphia, Denver, Orlando, Portland, and San Jose. She also spoke at CC21 in Chicago, in 2003. This special all-day program track will begin the morning with her well-known pair of talks on "The Gothic Fitted Dress" (a medieval fashion known to many modern costumers as the "cotehardie") and "The Greenland Gored Gown" (the style often called the "10-gore dress"). Two to 3 more lectures will follow a lunch break (subjects to be announced in the near future). The lecture series is open to all members of Costume-Con 25, however, you are strongly advised to reserve your seat in advance, as seating will be limited. You should indicate your wish to have your name on the list at the time you register. If you are already registered, just drop us a line at slcg@email.com. If you are only interested in attending Ms. Netherton's lectures, you may purchase a one-day membership ($50, available on-line), which also gives you access to all the activities of the convention that day. You should be aware that if you choose to wait to purchase a one-day membership at the door, we cannot guarantee that seats will still be available for the lectures. For more info, or to sign up, visit www.cc25.net/netherton.htm. Bruce Mai and Pierre Pettinger Co-Chairs, Costume-Con 25 "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 12:46:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4HkOS0019803 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 12:46:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA4HkLoj001969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 12:46:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4HjRJf050534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 10:45:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4HjKgm019696; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 10:45:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4HjGh0019639 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 10:45:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.146.22.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.146.22]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GgPZz-0001r2-00; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 12:45:16 -0500 In-Reply-To: <005301c6ffe3$e7c14560$13d6f5dc@user4712b7d135> References: <005301c6ffe3$e7c14560$13d6f5dc@user4712b7d135> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <14243D64-A714-4B56-98DA-169F2D7B0200@mindspring.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: [h-cost] Tailoring guidance request pass-along Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 12:44:57 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454CD1ED.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 12:46:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 84b2d642-c9ba-4f3e-a7c9-9db271e10db5 Status: RO Hello the list: My sister-in-law has been doing costuming work in a community theater and is generally an intelligent, competent, detail-oriented seamstress. The theater does both contemporary plays and classics-- Victorian/Edwardian and '30s/'40s mostly, but once in a while '20s. For the period shows she likes to use period patterns when she can, and that's where she's running into frustration. I offered to seek help for her on this wonderfully helpful list. Does anyone know a source--book, on-line instruction, or workshop (Connecticut area)--for guidance on tailoring and sewing techniques for these periods? She can usually dope out how to do what has to be done, or how to finesse it (this is theater, after all, not reenactment)--but that always takes more time than she has available, and she also always feels as if the garment would have come out better had she known what she was doing! Most particularly she runs into difficulty with trims and with the various kinds of insets and period-specific seam shapes. I don't think she's looking for patterns or designs, but rather instruction in materials and methods. Any advice would be welcome. I've already told her the best advice would be to join the list and lurk, because eventually this kind of information will emerge in some discussion!...but so far she's been reticent.... Thanks-- Ruth Anne Baumgartner gypsy scholar and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 13:23:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4INld8021384 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 13:23:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA4INflx031008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 13:23:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4INBrR056997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:23:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4IN96j052296; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:23:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4IN4Il052128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:23:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:12364 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GgQAZ-0005DX-Gn for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 12:23:04 -0600 Message-ID: <053501c7003e$43a8d960$e100a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005301c6ffe3$e7c14560$13d6f5dc@user4712b7d135> <14243D64-A714-4B56-98DA-169F2D7B0200@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailoring guidance request pass-along Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 12:22:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454CDAAD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 13:23:47 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: aac2dd7e-b7ad-4966-bd04-46e68bf08040 Status: RO Vintage sewing books online: http://vintagesewing.info/ -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 13:31:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4IV7Bp021559 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 13:31:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA4IV3iP013805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 13:31:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4IUgUn058409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:30:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4IUdDd058797; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:30:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4IUZYn058716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:30:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.156] (209-148-118-156.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.156]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA4IUVTg019270 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 10:30:34 -0800 Message-ID: <454CDC49.4020804@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 10:30:33 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailoring guidance request pass-along References: <005301c6ffe3$e7c14560$13d6f5dc@user4712b7d135> <14243D64-A714-4B56-98DA-169F2D7B0200@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <14243D64-A714-4B56-98DA-169F2D7B0200@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454CDC67.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 13:31:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d4c3bf54-75c0-40ae-b2e5-3227c35500c7 Status: RO So far I've published five books of Victorian and Edwardian historic patterns, which include dressmaking manuals or excerpts from them, and/or excerpts from period magazines that contain sewing information. Also one general book on historic sewing and on altering vintage clothes (some of the latter info is also applicable to theatrical costumes). Details are on my website, http://www.lavoltapress.com. Another thing that might be helpful is advanced modern clothing design classes. When I formally studied clothing design, my couture sewing classes contained a great deal of info useful for the Victorian/Edwardian period, which I still use in making my own historic reproductions as well as of course my writing work. However, as your sister-in-law seems to have already guessed, the sewing methods for different eras do vary, due to not only garment structure and technology (especially availability of the sewing machine), but custom. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: > Hello the list: > > My sister-in-law has been doing costuming work in a community theater > and is generally an intelligent, competent, detail-oriented seamstress. > The theater does both contemporary plays and classics-- > Victorian/Edwardian and '30s/'40s mostly, but once in a while '20s. For > the period shows she likes to use period patterns when she can, and > that's where she's running into frustration. I offered to seek help for > her on this wonderfully helpful list. > > Does anyone know a source--book, on-line instruction, or workshop > (Connecticut area)--for guidance on tailoring and sewing techniques for > these periods? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 18:52:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4NqQPc032227 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:52:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA4NqMPH017292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:52:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4NpZgO003570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 16:51:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4NpRm1008682; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 16:51:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth13.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth13.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA4NpLoF008589 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 16:51:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from achasedesign@peoplepc.com) Received: from [209.86.224.24] (helo=mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by smtpauth13.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GgVIG-0006nW-TT for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 18:51:20 -0500 Received: from 4.226.54.97 by webmail.peoplepc.com with HTTP; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:51:20 -0500 Message-ID: <7688807.1162684280934.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 15:51:20 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: AVC To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-ELNK-Trace: 3778a894565bd4435fbe5647b6c494ea89e6754a908ffd693222aedcbe64d40db1d8737267c32ae786936b69e59fefa2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] BASIC SEWING PATTERNS FOR MEN X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454D27B6.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 18:52:26 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9760612f-2fa4-48ea-90fc-06411f0377e0 Status: RO Does the list membership know where one may obtain: 1) Basic pattern drafts for large men, 2) How to get the current US Bureau of Standards sizing for pattern drafting please? One man whom I costume for plays is 6'7" and 380, two others are about 6'3" and close to 300; I have on on the current production (thanks be its modern) is a 57" girth. I'm tired of starting from scratch for these guys and would like to have some 'cheaters' on hand to expand from. Any advice will be appreciated. Audrey Chase. ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 4 20:09:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA519fZN001473 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 20:09:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA519bhU019038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 20:09:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5192mD015512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:09:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5190oc066669; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:09:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA518tRE066593 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:08:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cff.ff4c89 (42805) for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 20:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 20:08:47 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] BASIC SEWING PATTERNS FOR MEN To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454D39D2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 04 Nov 2006 20:09:41 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b1dce1d4-b9e7-4c46-a58d-f241fe3df3a4 Status: RO In a message dated 11/4/2006 6:52:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, achasedesign@peoplepc.com writes: Does the list membership know where one may obtain: 1) Basic pattern drafts for large men, Kwik Sew carries basic men's patterns up to XXL. That might not even be large enough for you. Another thing that would be kind of a pain at first, but once it was done might be helpful, is to find some old clothes--either thrift store or from the guys themselves--to take apart and make your own basic patterns from. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 5 01:21:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA56LCCk009657 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 01:21:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA56L8p3013263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 01:21:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA56K047058281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 23:20:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA56JkXk076777; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 23:19:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA56Jh7q076728 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 23:19:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id p76so727379pyb for ; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:19:43 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=fs7Pj78ueVUj/MRV9G3NzAiYzwAkyBqUoooJphX7opCXN0Dy4zubjAd4pDZZR+7XjEUmH901yhKFip2bNFyckZZXJ3GXIUB+n3jV9cH/KpTKk8urAZ0iKgySJG53pUnCUuuyLvBsPFHUHKmiy5xYR8+DNwJSCRtGgk4KvNmawSg= Received: by 10.65.138.4 with SMTP id q4mr3405343qbn.1162707582912; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.196.1 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 22:19:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 22:19:42 -0800 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailoring guidance request pass-along MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454D82D4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 05 Nov 2006 01:21:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4da4ab27-efae-4d7c-91d9-d492eb07f80c Status: RO > Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: > > Does anyone know a source--book, on-line instruction, or workshop > > (Connecticut area)--for guidance on tailoring and sewing techniques for > > these periods? > I'm particularly fond of Fred Struthers at RL Shep books. http://www.rlshep.com/HTML/booklist.htm Reprints of original patterns, tailors instructions, milinery guides. I own at least a dozen. Good stuff for Mid-Victorian and later. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 5 01:21:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA56LEAT009658 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 01:21:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA56LB7I015653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 01:21:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA56K07v058282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Nov 2006 23:20:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA56JkHk076767; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 23:19:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA56JhsB076723 for ; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 23:19:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id z59so638885pyg for ; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:19:43 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=fs7Pj78ueVUj/MRV9G3NzAiYzwAkyBqUoooJphX7opCXN0Dy4zubjAd4pDZZR+7XjEUmH901yhKFip2bNFyckZZXJ3GXIUB+n3jV9cH/KpTKk8urAZ0iKgySJG53pUnCUuuyLvBsPFHUHKmiy5xYR8+DNwJSCRtGgk4KvNmawSg= Received: by 10.65.138.4 with SMTP id q4mr3405343qbn.1162707582912; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.196.1 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Nov 2006 22:19:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 22:19:42 -0800 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailoring guidance request pass-along MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454D82D7.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 05 Nov 2006 01:21:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ebb90f53-9b20-41c1-9922-6738e0286d72 Status: RO > Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: > > Does anyone know a source--book, on-line instruction, or workshop > > (Connecticut area)--for guidance on tailoring and sewing techniques for > > these periods? > I'm particularly fond of Fred Struthers at RL Shep books. http://www.rlshep.com/HTML/booklist.htm Reprints of original patterns, tailors instructions, milinery guides. I own at least a dozen. Good stuff for Mid-Victorian and later. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 5 11:38:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5GcRnR008339 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 11:38:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA5GcL3g004179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 11:38:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5GbXD0072269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 09:37:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5GbOt1055126; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 09:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5GbLe2055016 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 09:37:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.00 201-2174-114-20060621) with ESMTP id <20061105163715.FAOY17278.fep32.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:37:15 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.63]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061105163714.UWS8942.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:37:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c700f8$b6e5c770$3f43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:37:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.161.67.63] at Sun, 5 Nov 2006 17:37:05 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto stays 1780 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454E137D.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 05 Nov 2006 11:38:27 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 71e7eced-4b12-4ead-aefd-512894872e65 Status: RO Hi, Just wanted to show you the Kyoto Stays i made. I made this cut authentic from the pattern in the book with no alterations, but i am afraid maybe the front is two wide. Ill make the lace holes, and then send it to the lady for a fitting. I was making a big risk by trying the pattern without alterations, but it dosnt matter, i dont mind if i have to make a new front piece. http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 5 12:11:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5HBb63009441 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:11:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA5HBXG2009974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:11:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5HB1O8078741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:11:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5HB0Xf080775; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:11:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA5HAurd080736 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:10:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 13637 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2006 09:10:56 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 13563, pid: 13607, t: 4.8942s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 5 Nov 2006 09:10:51 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061105090700.022e3aa8@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 09:10:33 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto stays 1780 In-Reply-To: <000501c700f8$b6e5c770$3f43a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <000501c700f8$b6e5c770$3f43a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454E1B45.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 05 Nov 2006 12:11:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d24890a7-6977-4969-9763-3914a20815c6 Status: RO At 08:37 AM 11/5/2006, you wrote: >Hi, >Just wanted to show you the Kyoto Stays i made. I made this cut >authentic from the pattern in the book with no alterations, but i am >afraid maybe the front is two wide. Ill make the lace holes, and >then send it to the lady for a fitting. >I was making a big risk by trying the pattern without alterations, >but it dosnt matter, i dont mind if i have to make a new front piece. >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htm > >Bjarne Very nice work, as usual. I like the idea of making each piece of the corset separately and then putting them together (I know that that was the technique in period, it makes a lot of sense). Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 5 12:12:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5HCp2q009482 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:12:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA5HCmTx010792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:12:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5HCClH079055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:12:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5HCBcZ081739; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:12:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5HC99D081700 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:12:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so759518uge for ; Sun, 05 Nov 2006 09:12:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=apiqVF8WSTvrIs4fK+VY7fIxy0Xph35CJqkcE1vwKRlAMV9bkpRKkginU4BzKIznd/Z2Ot0l3Ru9SOYEH2WfNQww7uSVGnc219BZ23K9OFRm/oZQV6MsdMXA+FHEvE8ocmFTASZtfRMVNwGbQFcxj7OzOAM6hhCfM4BuTP9rRGw= Received: by 10.67.103.7 with SMTP id f7mr5966895ugm.1162746727589; Sun, 05 Nov 2006 09:12:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.67.31.3 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 09:12:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070611050912p62a4e987vee1a5645fe14c716@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:12:07 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] BASIC SEWING PATTERNS FOR MEN In-Reply-To: <7688807.1162684280934.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7688807.1162684280934.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454E1B90.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 05 Nov 2006 12:12:51 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 71a4b51d-60ef-4401-84a3-7238fb5ac2e0 Status: RO Past Patterns has some men's patterns in large sizes, including a mid-19th century shirt up to 50" chest and paletot and vest patterns up to 54" chest and trousers up to 52" waist I also hear they are planning on expanding their ladies' patterns over the next few years to size 26! Katy On 11/4/06, AVC wrote: > Does the list membership know where one may obtain: > 1) Basic pattern drafts for large men, > 2) How to get the current US Bureau of Standards sizing for pattern drafting > please? > > One man whom I costume for plays is 6'7" and 380, two others are about 6'3" and close to 300; I have on on the current production (thanks be its modern) is a 57" girth. > I'm tired of starting from scratch for these guys and would like to have some 'cheaters' on hand to expand from. > Any advice will be appreciated. > > Audrey Chase. > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 5 15:47:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5KlnsY018014 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 15:47:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA5KljUC008119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 15:47:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5KkoxI031934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 13:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5Kkjiq069298; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 13:46:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA5KkcaL069171 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 13:46:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.173.220.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.173.220]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Ggot2-00039i-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Nov 2006 15:46:37 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tailoring guidance request pass-along Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 15:46:19 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454E4DF1.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 05 Nov 2006 15:47:49 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f1dbd36b-14ae-49a9-bbb1-da755d88c634 Status: RO Thanks to everyone who came to my sister-in-law's aid with replies. She says she now has good leads to follow up and appreciates the help. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Nov 5, 2006, at 1:19 AM, Cin wrote: >> Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: >> > Does anyone know a source--book, on-line instruction, or workshop >> > (Connecticut area)--for guidance on tailoring and sewing >> techniques for >> > these periods? >> > > I'm particularly fond of Fred Struthers at RL Shep books. > http://www.rlshep.com/HTML/booklist.htm > Reprints of original patterns, tailors instructions, milinery guides. > I own at least a dozen. Good stuff for Mid-Victorian and later. > > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 5 20:28:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA61S4eY024936 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:28:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA61S0Ii009472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:28:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA61RCNM096303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 18:27:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA61R289007053; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 18:27:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA61QvHk006944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 18:27:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-213-182-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.213.182]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA61Qtin008277 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 12:26:56 +1100 Message-ID: <006601c70142$a521e600$b6d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 12:26:53 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454E8FA0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 05 Nov 2006 20:28:04 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 32bffbfe-4595-45f5-96f4-e4676ee6f0ce Status: RO A friend sent me this link, her outfit(s) must have been one heck of a challenge for the costumer who created it. www.youtube.com/v/RB-wUgnyGv0 -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 5 21:08:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA628H2V026452 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:08:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA628CRX007048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:08:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA627gsF005314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Nov 2006 19:07:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA627ekv043685; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 19:07:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA627bhH043626 for ; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 19:07:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 16195 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2006 18:07:36 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 15984, pid: 16181, t: 4.3090s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp3 with SMTP; 5 Nov 2006 18:07:32 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061105180652.022c9710@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 18:07:21 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' In-Reply-To: <006601c70142$a521e600$b6d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> References: <006601c70142$a521e600$b6d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp3.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454E990C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 05 Nov 2006 21:08:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8c883143-0deb-4820-90d0-5b3f6f1b66b2 Status: RO At 05:26 PM 11/5/2006, you wrote: >A friend sent me this link, her outfit(s) must have been one heck of >a challenge for the costumer who created it. >www.youtube.com/v/RB-wUgnyGv0 > >-------------------------------------------- >Elizabeth Walpole >Canberra Australia >ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au >http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ Absolutely amazing! Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 04:29:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA69TPLD005925 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 04:29:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA69TL2h016867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 04:29:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA69SlPX070174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 02:28:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA69SYQk070218; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 02:28:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from relay1.netspeed.com.au (relay1.netspeed.com.au [202.78.47.26]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA69SLgV070022 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 02:28:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garden@netspeed.com.au) Received: from netspeed.com.au (unverified [202.78.47.28]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8f) with ESMTP id 4277773-1804220 for ; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:28:41 +1100 Received: from [192.168.0.3] (unverified [210.9.143.239]) by NSmailstor (SurgeMail 3.8g) with ESMTP id 12933122-1803868 for ; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:25:07 +1100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.5.060620 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:28:18 +1100 From: Aylwen & John Garden To: "Historical Costume " Message-ID: Thread-Topic: "Regency Gown For Sale" page Thread-Index: AccBhL/j/fiEuG13EdusTQADk7ERAAAASSo8 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-X-Authenticated-User: garden@netspeed.com.au X-X-SpamDetect: : 0.000000 X-Info: aspam skipped due to (g_smite_skip) X-IP-stats: Catcher Incoming Last 0, First 12, in=38, out=0, spam=0 Known=true ip=210.9.143.239 X-Originating-IP: 210.9.143.239 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] "Regency Gown For Sale" page X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454F0071.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 04:29:25 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f933b7cc-b71a-487b-bfda-de80d1b109ed Status: RO I've added a page to my website where people can sell their readymade or used Regency gowns. I added a dress today - the link is http://www.regencyreproductions.com/ready.htm If anyone wants to add a garment to this page simply follow the directions at http://www.regencyreproductions.com/prices.htm Regards, Aylwen Garden http://www.regencyreproductions.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 11:24:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6GO7n7013578 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:24:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA6GO11H004787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 11:24:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6GN48J038719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:23:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6GMuqh035994; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:22:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6GMngD035837 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:22:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19598 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:22:49 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Marie Antoinette Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:21:21 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Marie Antoinette Thread-Index: Acb/gkvy/u2ku0PJQ3a50zOrthKOKQCO2bjQ From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA6GMngD035837 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454F61A2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:24:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c85c48a7-22d3-4ed4-899f-62598336c43c Status: RO According to Sophia Coppola the director of the film, MA was both booed and cheered at Cannes. Apparently those most upset were the French themselves who were expecting a biopic, faithful to Antonia Fraser's biography and were appalled at the casting, especially with everyone keeping their own accents. Marie Antoinette with a California Valley Girl accent!! Quelle Horrour!! Plus the French are still split in their opinions on Marie Antoinette. I thought it was great fun and more open that it wasn't historically correct in order to get its point across, than say, the 1938 Marie Antoinette, starring Norma Shearer, that took great pains in pushing how much behind the scenes work was done to make everything historically correct, but looks like a 1930's Ziegfield Follies-inspired musical. I'll buy the DVD when it comes out for the costuming on this MA, alone. And there is sure to be an "extra" on the costumes in in. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 17:32:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6MWLdN031578 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:32:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA6MWF69008019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:32:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6MV6FD019550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:31:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6MUtwm073261; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6GMppO035887 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:22:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19634 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:22:51 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1844 London fashion Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:21:31 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] 1844 London fashion Thread-Index: Acb/5reUIOw/sjkCQy+j9wuGJ3tssAB1NJ0A From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA6GMppO035887 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454FB7EF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 17:32:21 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5643bc18-63b1-4bb7-83f6-bf36c3cc2de4 Status: RO Suzi: Thanks for sharing the link to your illustrations. The 1798 and 1799 illustration you have is especially interesting, showing that the "patrie" influence of the tricolour was still very evident in French high fashion during the latter part of the Directorie and Counselete in France. Also by 1844, the gigot sleeves of the late 1820's and 1830's had been reduced to the almost too-tight sleeves of the 1840's. This had filtered down even to the lower middle classes by 1844. Several biographies of Emily Bronte note that she continued to wear the narrower skirts(without petticoats), with a higher, less restrictive bodice of the earlier 1820s and the wider gigot sleeves of the late 1820's and early 1830's(although I doubt these were of the extremely fashionable breath)long after they they had fallen out of fashion. When someone criticized for it, she reportedly replied that she "wished to be as God made me" At one time she chose fabric for a new dress that was patterned in purple with a design resembling streaks of lightning. Wider sleeves and narrower skirts were more practical for roaming the moors and doing household tasks, as Emily did, than the more fashionable but restrictive dresses of the 1840's. Some sleeves and bodices grew so tight, they restricted movement Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 1:56 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1844 London fashion At 05:16 04/11/2006, you wrote: > >From the art I have viewed, it seems that English women's fashions > in the 1840's were transitional between the gigot sleeves of the > Romantic period and the fitted sleeve of the Victorians. Does that > sound correct? Does anyone have images that they can share for the > 1840's, women's gowns and bonnets? What fabrics would have been > appropriate at different socioeconomic levels? What colors? Both > bonnets and gowns. :-) > Thank you so much. > Ann Morton I have several fashion plates from this period on my Fotopic site here http://suziclarke4384.fotopic.net/c382113.html I apologise for the lack of order - I entered them in chronological order, but Fotopic shuffled them when I wasn't looking! I have more, I think, which have not made it to the site, so if you need more mail me off list. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 17:46:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6Mk4IZ031855 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:46:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA6Mjwiq031213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:46:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6MiRuX022773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:44:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6MiOoB088457; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:44:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (rwcrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.192.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6MOM13065431 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:24:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (failure[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20061106222415m1500bss35e>; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 22:24:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <5abdf965b2643c062566f4783b594890@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Marie Antoinette Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:24:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454FBB26.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 17:46:04 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 03b6c9a5-cf50-4e18-9a34-f0156740fc03 Status: RO What would you say the point of the movie was? I haven't seen it yet but I did see the PBS documentary on tv last night. I really hadn't known much about the woman before and it would seem that she really didnt mature at all until she was incarcerated. I hadn't realized she was imprisoned for such a long time before her execution. It just seems to me that any story of her life is terribly incomplete without those last years. Is there anything meaningful at all to say about her otherwise? And if not, what exactly is the point of the movie? Sylrog On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:21 AM, Abel, Cynthia wrote: > > According to Sophia Coppola the director of the film, MA was both booed > and cheered at Cannes. Apparently those most upset were the French > themselves who were expecting a biopic, faithful to Antonia Fraser's > biography and were appalled at the casting, especially with everyone > keeping their own accents. Marie Antoinette with a California Valley > Girl accent!! Quelle Horrour!! Plus the French are still split in their > opinions on Marie Antoinette. > > I thought it was great fun and more open that it wasn't historically > correct in order to get its point across, than say, the 1938 Marie > Antoinette, starring Norma Shearer, that took great pains in pushing > how > much behind the scenes work was done to make everything historically > correct, but looks like a 1930's Ziegfield Follies-inspired musical. > > I'll buy the DVD when it comes out for the costuming on this MA, alone. > And there is sure to be an "extra" on the costumes in in. > > Cindy Abel > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 18:09:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6N9Wq2032384 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:09:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA6N9SWe014065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:09:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6N90sa027389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:09:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6N8tTv015825; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:08:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA6N77HQ014187 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:07:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.75.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.75] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GhDYU-0001yW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 18:07:03 -0500 Message-ID: <454FCDB5.2070803@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 18:05:09 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' References: <006601c70142$a521e600$b6d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 454FC0A8.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 18:09:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 33cceb7d-5055-4d38-a2e2-f433c03002df Status: RO Wow. Triple wow. As I was watching this, I was thinking, "I hope the directors in my theatre dept. don't see this--they'll be asking me to make this stuff happen on our stage, and I can't figure out how they're doing it!" Fun stuff. Melanie Schuessler Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > A friend sent me this link, her outfit(s) must have been one heck of a > challenge for the costumer who created it. > www.youtube.com/v/RB-wUgnyGv0 > > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 19:07:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA707ZBD001078 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:07:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA707WJ3017682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:07:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA706f63039945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:06:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA706aaJ079770; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:06:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA706We6079584 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:06:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c2e.7a663ba (39331) for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:06:22 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:06:22 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Marie Antoinette To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454FCE44.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:07:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: db25cbf5-555f-4686-8948-785e9288d03d Status: RO In a message dated 11/6/2006 5:45:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sylvia@ntw.net writes: And if not, what exactly is the point of the movie? ****************** Ca-ching, ca-ching? Perhaps? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 19:18:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70Ixhf001300 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:18:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA70IuHj016920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:18:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70GLbn042113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:16:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70GIqD090414; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:16:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70GEaF090328 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:16:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from camelothorse@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=E4QbKm3JvgCxdrOmvhkliohg3ji0r+djA5A0Avgzsf3VMYBtcnFleJ8mtKE3NxdC; h=Received:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:In-Reply-To:Thread-Index:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.231.156.123] (helo=camelot01) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GhEdQ-0001WT-SG for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:16:13 -0500 From: "Diane Maynard" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:16:08 -0600 Organization: Camelot Horse Center Message-ID: <021801c70201$ed0e2ae0$e597e704@camelot01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <006601c70142$a521e600$b6d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> Thread-Index: AccBQtz3WwvPyuJhTY+5vAmITIC7ewAvr9Vw X-ELNK-Trace: 7d3e56efc2551607917237dadff7bf594d2b10475b571120dd2c53e9973c7f5760c06079530c79533122699149cfe979350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.231.156.123 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454FD0F0.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:18:59 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7fbe0819-513a-41ee-a417-69fff67cfaab Status: RO OMG ! ! I am stunned beyond words ! That was amazing ! Diane -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:27 PM To: Historic Costume Subject: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' A friend sent me this link, her outfit(s) must have been one heck of a challenge for the costumer who created it. www.youtube.com/v/RB-wUgnyGv0 -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 19:30:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70UTvM001535 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:30:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA70UQrq031733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:30:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70TEkA044004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:29:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70TD8n003162; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:29:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70TBoq003134 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:29:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id v1so932390nzb for ; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 16:29:11 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=QpaniJ3aRYlaFDwLoXcKeR9x0WOU00havQaOAOMpf2NvqqTRtsTpsyDetxvuV8ANfpDZSCYWYu2+MQEpQhcdJNnFSqYctDb5tCac8SapGT55OcP9IwUEZ7BAyNSf2iWPvIfYAovZ5rbtbVDzIDyxqti9E0EVuG9mNVgznejnNEs= Received: by 10.65.100.14 with SMTP id c14mr6676311qbm.1162859351103; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 16:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.196.1 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:29:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 16:29:11 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] spats - where to find 'em X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 454FD3A2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:30:29 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b72da914-cc3d-41cc-b5a8-e94b8fe0a96b Status: RO Hey Costumers, I've got a wierd question for you. Some of the gents in a ragtime dance group (circa 1910-1914) I perform with are interested in adding spats to their outfits. Too cute and no one could possibly want to disuade them... except for the vinyl. Uck. I think the scariest URL pointed to "while vinyl cowboy spats". While the idea is amusing, the implementation disappointing. Any idea where to buy or mail order nice looking spats? Thanks for you help! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 6 19:37:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70bc7P001741 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:37:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA70bZKl030395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:37:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70b2lE045200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:37:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70b0nr010430; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:37:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts22.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA70auE7010323 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 17:36:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([69.156.136.37]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20061107003654.WAIQ10262.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:36:54 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20061106193719.00c42b80@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:38:48 -0500 To: From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] spats X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 454FD54F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:37:38 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 59e4edc7-9462-4dac-b6ca-e8fd485e4333 Status: RO History in the Making has good quality spats. http://www.historyinthemaking.org/catalog/online%20catalog02.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 09:03:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7E2vpG017217 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:03:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7E2lhP020782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:02:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7E1bZY086381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 07:01:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7E1QIh095424; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 07:01:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp7.america.net (qsmtp7.america.net [69.60.160.250]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7E1InJ095275 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 07:01:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from [65.125.64.173] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp7.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GhRVu-00050K-8o for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 09:01:18 -0500 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061107075357.019510a8@justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 08:00:15 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' In-Reply-To: <454FCDB5.2070803@faucet.net> References: <006601c70142$a521e600$b6d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> <454FCDB5.2070803@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45509207.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 09:02:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 78726904-3dc0-4e1c-bdc0-f041c058a739 Status: RO At 06:05 PM 11/6/2006, you wrote: >Wow. Triple wow. As I was watching this, I was thinking, "I hope >the directors in my theatre dept. don't see this--they'll be asking >me to make this stuff happen on our stage, and I can't figure out >how they're doing it!" > >Fun stuff. > >Melanie Schuessler My hubby did a bit of research. He found that it's all in the closures... Here's the direct link... http://www.williamsmagic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16741 If that doesn't work, go to the main site -- http://www.williamsmagic.com/ -- and do an advanced search (upper right corner) for "costume change". The book is called "Quick Change - Rapid Costume Changes for Men". There are others available there as well. have fun Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 10:23:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7FNSZV019488 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:23:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7FNPOl000538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:23:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7FL1Yl003541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:21:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7FKf3I074730; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [63.240.77.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7FKZ7w074540 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:20:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <200611071520270130091behe>; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:20:27 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061107075357.019510a8@justinanimator.com> References: <006601c70142$a521e600$b6d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> <454FCDB5.2070803@faucet.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20061107075357.019510a8@justinanimator.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <24118ae3e4ab223e1d78ad51933e367a@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:20:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4550A4ED.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:23:28 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 270e754d-4823-42c5-8968-1f2c616c05be Status: RO All us costumers are familiar with these tricks, at least some of them. It would be interesting to get the book and see what ones we haven't considered. What gets me about the video is that the woman's clothes look too well put together to have these kinds of quick change closures. When I have had to use them in the past for breakaway clothing, it is pretty easy to tell where the velcro is, although from a distance I guess the audience can't tell. and when it is happening so fast as with the magicians, it's even harder. And of course, it takes a ton of rehearsing, probably a lot more than we usually have time for in the theatre. Never the less, I might get the book. Sylrog On Nov 7, 2006, at 7:00 AM, Genie Barrett wrote: > At 06:05 PM 11/6/2006, you wrote: >> Wow. Triple wow. As I was watching this, I was thinking, "I hope >> the directors in my theatre dept. don't see this--they'll be asking >> me to make this stuff happen on our stage, and I can't figure out how >> they're doing it!" >> >> Fun stuff. >> >> Melanie Schuessler > > My hubby did a bit of research. He found that it's all in the > closures... > > Here's the direct link... > > http://www.williamsmagic.com/index.php? > main_page=product_info&products_id=16741 > > If that doesn't work, go to the main site -- > http://www.williamsmagic.com/ -- and do an advanced search (upper > right corner) for "costume change". The book is called "Quick Change > - Rapid Costume Changes for Men". There are others available there as > well. > > have fun > Genie > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 10:30:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7FUPPE019709 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:30:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7FUMnx008505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:30:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7FS3ZV004761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:28:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7FRwkL082374; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:28:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth15.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth15.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.75]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7FRrIf082271 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:27:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from achasedesign@peoplepc.com) Received: from [209.86.224.27] (helo=mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by smtpauth15.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GhSrg-0005MM-Q7 for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:27:52 -0500 Received: from 207.69.137.43 by webmail.peoplepc.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:27:51 -0500 Message-ID: <32063742.1162913272739.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 07:27:52 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: AVC To: h-costume posts Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-ELNK-Trace: 3778a894565bd4435fbe5647b6c494ea89e6754a908ffd693fd6495140bef32050bb7ff874edb2ea0ca2637590cc961d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.27 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Basic Patterns forBig Men X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4550A68E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:30:25 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 446faa45-53c1-4049-adfa-572f0003a87d Status: RO Thanks to those who responded with suggestions. I apologize for not making my needs clear. I can draft pajamas for elephants if need be. I'm just tired of having to start from scratch on these guys each time they are cast for anything that requires dress prior to 1850. I always re-measure an actor for several reasons. In commercial patterns, usually based on the measures of the US Bureau of standards, Weights and Measures, I'm not finding sizes above 48. XL,XXL,XXXL are not consistent over brands. In order to draft Basic Patterns in sizes 50,52,54,56,58, and 60 current size charts are wanted. Failing that commercial patterns are a substitute for my own but I can't find them, nor can I find the right address to get into Weights and Measures to download the charts. When I make a custom fit for an actor my fit muslin usually ends up as garment lining ( we are low budget productions here) and besides these are not standardized; they are custom. Anybody know the way to the Yellow Brick Road? Audy. ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 12:11:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7HBWW2022632 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:11:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7HBSu4019007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:11:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7HA5bu026058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:10:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7H8Afa098556; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:08:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA7H7LaC097639 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 10:07:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ctrvlyfarm@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 147 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Nov 2006 17:07:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=dl8lTKe2bRU3OUwfudEGSzjreDFGdssuKWz5uRe5IW9a6nEa4hkE0b4kGceB1vd+P+mLMlJqWXTb+bmAycQXA5Qgl+WUboRcXhdJFYYCNLGUmLl2bUgAv4P3Dhkhzxt63ub/62TkKZc5PpPq3m+dHL3LoqEEVXoabxEJO+/nq64= ; Message-ID: <20061107170715.145.qmail@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.75.18.176] by web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 09:07:15 PST Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:07:15 -0800 (PST) From: REBECCA BURCH Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic Patterns forBig Men To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <32063742.1162913272739.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4550BE40.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:11:32 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 374ff8a0-551e-490f-8c6f-6a89e1bd3aad Status: RO If these guys are going to repeat customers, might it be possible to make a paper copy of your muslin? Just your basic body shape, especially for pants and jackets. Then you would have a permanent base to start from and can make style/period adjustments from there. --- AVC wrote: > Thanks to those who responded with suggestions. I > apologize for not making my needs clear. I can draft > pajamas for elephants if need be. I'm just tired of > having to start from scratch on these guys each time > they are cast for anything that requires dress prior > to 1850. > I always re-measure an actor for several reasons. In > commercial patterns, usually based on the measures > of the US Bureau of standards, Weights and Measures, > I'm not finding sizes above 48. XL,XXL,XXXL are not > consistent over brands. In order to draft Basic > Patterns in sizes 50,52,54,56,58, and 60 current > size charts are wanted. > Failing that commercial patterns are a substitute > for my own but I can't find them, nor can I find the > right address to get into Weights and Measures to > download the charts. > When I make a custom fit for an actor my fit muslin > usually ends up as garment lining ( we are low > budget productions here) and besides these are not > standardized; they are custom. > Anybody know the way to the Yellow Brick Road? > Audy. > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 13:23:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7INQiQ025135 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:23:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7INMKR020990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:23:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7IKWaJ040317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:20:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7IGRvT078011; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.234]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7IFgHd076956 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:15:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kevin.murakoshi@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so385965wra for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:15:07 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Ms4zGXF/ECrzuRt+2vKcz8E2jZLL4puZCqOGJQ/iI6qSNbNmbeVqp4YAoEqDRHJ+I9q8uq/xFXBXhAhHxF9dJO7wyWFrrZgV/pSqMsORINEAFDRPv2B64L7kb0BDsSeSzO5lCoxceTg3BgfMbT5B/NzROfuEnmZtjxyAPX2eAV4= Received: by 10.78.128.15 with SMTP id a15mr8605300hud.1162923306653; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:15:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.0.10? ( [67.172.181.79]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id c18sm7256284hub.2006.11.07.10.15.05; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:15:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4550CD23.7040002@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:14:59 -0800 From: Kevin Murakoshi User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic Patterns forBig Men References: <32063742.1162913272739.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <32063742.1162913272739.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4550CF1A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:23:26 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a9bf216e-adf7-4cae-bb9e-8d044586a065 Status: RO I know this isn't much help, but while browsing the NIST NCSC (National Institute of Standards and Technology, National Center for Standards and Certification) webpage http://ts.nist.gov/Standards/Conformity/ncsci.cfm. It seems that the US Apparel standards have been withdrawn... On the Other hand the US Breau of Standards, Weights and Measures has been replaced by the above organization, so you can start there for information. On their webpage they have the sizing standards for young children, boys, girls, young men and women, nothing for men (http://ts.nist.gov/Standards/Conformity/withdrawnstds.cfm). You could try contacting them here: http://ts.nist.gov/Standards/Conformity/contact.cfm If you don't mind spending money, you could try and obtain a copy of the ISO clothing size standards http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueListPage.CatalogueList?ICS1=61&ICS2=20&ICS3=&scopelist=, but they are far too expensive for my taste. Hope this helps, Kevin Murakoshi AVC wrote: >Thanks to those who responded with suggestions. I apologize for not making my needs clear. I can draft pajamas for elephants if need be. I'm just tired of having to start from scratch on these guys each time they are cast for anything that requires dress prior to 1850. >I always re-measure an actor for several reasons. In commercial patterns, usually based on the measures of the US Bureau of standards, Weights and Measures, I'm not finding sizes above 48. XL,XXL,XXXL are not consistent over brands. In order to draft Basic Patterns in sizes 50,52,54,56,58, and 60 current size charts are wanted. >Failing that commercial patterns are a substitute for my own but I can't find them, nor can I find the right address to get into Weights and Measures to download the charts. >When I make a custom fit for an actor my fit muslin usually ends up as garment lining ( we are low budget productions here) and besides these are not standardized; they are custom. >Anybody know the way to the Yellow Brick Road? >Audy. > >________________________________________ >PeoplePC Online >A better way to Internet >http://www.peoplepc.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 14:07:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7J77Af026207 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:07:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7J722G019859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:07:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7J6PIp050524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:06:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7J66mE037961; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:06:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7IZlJt001487 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:36:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kA7IZj418585 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:35:45 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail02.unl.edu: nobody set sender to 00217146@bigred.unl.edu using -f To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <1162924545.4550d20177cf6@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 12:35:45 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] iron corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4550D956.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:07:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 67c007da-0161-400c-b354-b16af85e9847 Status: RO I'm trying to find information on the iron corsets that show up in museum collections and shocking costume- or corset-history websites. Specifically, I'm trying to track down sources for some of the information that is bandied about (without references) online. For example, is there any written evidence that Catherine de Medici ever wore one, for example? Are there documents regarding her (supposed) insistance that the ladies of her court maintain a 13 inch waist? I've heard of an account of a 16th century doctor having one made as a back brace, does anybody know where this came from? Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 14:29:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7JTHmT026763 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:29:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7JTERx014049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:29:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7JSCGW055856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:28:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7JRbb1062780; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:27:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7JRUor062492 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:27:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.3c8.de5f2df (58435) for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:27:19 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <3c8.de5f2df.32823817@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:27:19 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Basic Patterns forBig Men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4550DE8A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:29:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3c0b0b07-8ac2-4fae-8d44-e4bd6ccf0746 Status: RO In a message dated 11/7/2006 10:28:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, achasedesign@peoplepc.com writes: nor can I find the right address to get into Weights and Measures to download the charts. Bureau of Standards changed its name quite a while ago to National Institute of Standards and Technology--nist.gov. Try that, and see if you can find what you are looking for. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 16:38:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7LcJGw030072 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:38:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7LcFNc002964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:38:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7LbVYG080664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7LbMS0008320; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7LbJ7T008168 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:37:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from missdoornink@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id v1so1211789nzb for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:37:14 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:from:to:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:in-reply-to:x-mimeole:thread-index:message-id; b=CcazPOFlsd4C2FddXzWd75m9HcDKpxuGY5eNJldfLBzxGCrK0GBmKs7+E2Bye7LE9g8s0dsZChTgakqDwuLvjCDlutbYB6fvGIkcCslT6RjAYYHJLe6V6kxexEm4SfbJI+Krxg45bITwac0IXtvXJLf3choJGHmn6ZCKrs/0aUw= Received: by 10.65.137.5 with SMTP id p5mr10867267qbn.1162935433985; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from doorninklaptop ( [65.40.226.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id f13sm9439799qba.2006.11.07.13.37.13; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:37:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Elisabeth Doornink" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:37:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <1162924545.4550d20177cf6@webmail02.unl.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Thread-Index: AccCoAl0Hnd3zCslTkybvuOUwp1PPgAFMGQA Message-ID: <4550fc89.670857d1.2604.68e6@mx.google.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4550FCC7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:38:19 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: adca57bc-d073-41a8-8a8d-111865b1d537 Status: RO There's a picture of one here...but I don't think it was actually a corset - a shop sign, perhaps. http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18t h/lingerie18.html Quia Christus perpetuo regnat, Elisabeth -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of 00217146@bigred.unl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:36 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] iron corset I'm trying to find information on the iron corsets that show up in museum collections and shocking costume- or corset-history websites. Specifically, I'm trying to track down sources for some of the information that is bandied about (without references) online. For example, is there any written evidence that Catherine de Medici ever wore one, for example? Are there documents regarding her (supposed) insistance that the ladies of her court maintain a 13 inch waist? I've heard of an account of a 16th century doctor having one made as a back brace, does anybody know where this came from? Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 11/6/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 17:39:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7MddIJ031308 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:39:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7Mda1B012358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:39:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7McksP091359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:38:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7McBga075196; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:38:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.171]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA7Mbt1A074730 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 76665 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Nov 2006 22:37:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Xt56wg71WMbeuKrsuxEBA7Ii1N5cZ45aDeBdRNTFQFHuLflRmCXimaE/vtM2RVdbQgfAlq9YujieNDrizyT4D9gGyNDKOpULpqKjeJFSJIeAxtjEhFUBaGYLYI4+mrUxG9hMSTaMsGWQWZnYS/63b/KHZdlgFU2n04SHXCJt4ao= ; Message-ID: <20061107223745.76663.qmail@web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.85.6.52] by web37909.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:37:45 PST Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:37:45 -0800 (PST) From: Galadriel Lothlorien Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' To: h-costume@mail.indra.com In-Reply-To: <200611071901.kA7J0PP5030956@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45510B28.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:39:39 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4d3f213e-0d90-41ed-8dce-160a08bc4d86 Status: RO Actually, it's not all smooth and nice. Watch it again. She comes out and looks pretty thick around the torso, especially compared to the last white costume. It's because there are several layers up there. Most actresses wouldn't want to be padded out like that. You can see them reaching for fasteners several times, both the man and the woman. Yes, it's still amazing, but after having seen this several times over the months, the methods are becoming less and less mysterious. Still, very entertaining, though! And I'm happy that it impresses the masses. --Rachel ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 18:01:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7N196Q031735 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:01:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7N16F0019247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:01:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7N0W7i095072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:00:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7N0Ixs000624; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:00:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7N08mI000341 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:00:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kA7N01G25846 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:00:01 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail02.unl.edu: nobody set sender to 00217146@bigred.unl.edu using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish) Message-ID: <1162940401.45510ff16ec13@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:00:01 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <4550fc89.670857d1.2604.68e6@mx.google.com> In-Reply-To: <4550fc89.670857d1.2604.68e6@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45511032.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:01:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 06249ca0-5c8c-47b5-ad75-3efad1ce62cb Status: RO The story so far: Here is the specific block of text that really got my curiosity up, this is copied from en.wikibooks.org; it's one of the hits I got when I did a google image search for "iron corset" --copied text follows-- Iron corsets are Victorian Era corsetcovers made of metal. There are several in museum collections. It is sometimes claimed that these were the everyday wear of women and girls throughout Europe in the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries. But they are more likely to be orthopedic instruments used by a very few women whose posture was not considered acceptable by the health and beauty standards of the time. * It is likely that the Iron Corset was originally a type of armour worn only by men. * The fact is as the "iron corset" was used both of men and women, but only on dress occasions. The iron was heavy, but the dress was also heavy, and the iron was padded underneath like armour. The silk of that time was very expensive but of poor quality and stretched poorly. It looked beautiful on the shining metal. The iron corset also worked as a bulletproof waistcoat, because assassination by knife in heart was a common risk. * The padded "iron corset" and armour was known as a corset on women, and a waistcoat (vest) on men. --end copied text-- This block, or portions of it, is used on any number of websites. I'd like to know where these ideas came from. Not in this text is the idea that the iron corset was invented by the de Medici's, or that Catherine wore one to achieve her 13 inch waist, though that's another common theme. The iron corsets I've located so far are as follows: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18th/lingerie18.html one in the sex machines museum (you have been warned)(not actually sexually explicit) in the "sex machines gallary" http://www.sexmachinesmuseum.com http://employees.oneonta.edu/angellkg/RENAISSA.HTML near the bottom of the page. This one is in the Cluny museum? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Iron_corset two more, as well as duplicates and drawings. http://web.archive.org/web/20050302121500/http://greatdayamerica.com/style/fashion/lycracorset.shtml http://www.staylace.com/unsortedjpgs/iron.jpg I *think* this one is in the Wallace Collection http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/fall99/bendlin/page2.html one new and one repeat and finally http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13444/13444-h/13444-h.htm#page101 which is a facimile of a book published in 1920 which includes variations on the de Medici comments. I have some theories, any or all of which may be true. I think some of the corsets may have been shop signs or orthopedic devices. I think some of them might have been victorian reproductions or fetish objects. (I have at least one victorian "naughty" picture of a woman in an iron corset--it is a "medieval" costume) I welcome any thoughts anybody else might have. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 18:52:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7Nqeqm032715 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:52:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7NqaaA005773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:52:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7NpDSB004978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:51:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7Np9jG053852; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:51:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7Np0KN053677 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:51:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 07 Nov 2006 23:50:54 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAIapUEXUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACLaWEBAQkOKg Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:3310 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GhaiT-0006JB-Ou for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:50:53 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061107235002.03341288@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:50:52 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish) In-Reply-To: <1162940401.45510ff16ec13@webmail02.unl.edu> References: <4550fc89.670857d1.2604.68e6@mx.google.com> <1162940401.45510ff16ec13@webmail02.unl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45511C45.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:52:40 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 19b06e25-f06a-4c9e-970a-32483052e1a6 Status: RO At 23:00 07/11/2006, you wrote: >The story so far: > >Here is the specific block of text that really got my curiosity up, this is >copied from en.wikibooks.org; it's one of the hits I got when I did a google >image search for "iron corset" > >--copied text follows-- > >Iron corsets are Victorian Era corsetcovers made of metal. There are >several in >museum collections. > >It is sometimes claimed that these were the everyday wear of women and girls >throughout Europe in the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries. >But they are >more likely to be orthopedic instruments used by a very few women >whose posture >was not considered acceptable by the health and beauty standards of the time. > > * It is likely that the Iron Corset was originally a type of armour worn >only by men. > * The fact is as the "iron corset" was used both of men and > women, but only >on dress occasions. The iron was heavy, but the dress was also heavy, and the >iron was padded underneath like armour. The silk of that time was >very expensive >but of poor quality and stretched poorly. It looked beautiful on the shining >metal. The iron corset also worked as a bulletproof waistcoat, because >assassination by knife in heart was a common risk. > * The padded "iron corset" and armour was known as a corset on > women, and a >waistcoat (vest) on men. > >--end copied text-- > >This block, or portions of it, is used on any number of websites. I'd like to >know where these ideas came from. Not in this text is the idea that the iron >corset was invented by the de Medici's, or that Catherine wore one to achieve >her 13 inch waist, though that's another common theme. The iron corsets I've >located so far are as follows: >http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18th/lingerie18.html >one in the sex machines museum (you have been warned)(not actually sexually >explicit) in the "sex machines gallary" http://www.sexmachinesmuseum.com >http://employees.oneonta.edu/angellkg/RENAISSA.HTML near the bottom >of the page. >This one is in the Cluny museum? >http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Iron_corset two more, as well as >duplicates and drawings. >http://web.archive.org/web/20050302121500/http://greatdayamerica.com/style/fashion/lycracorset.shtml >http://www.staylace.com/unsortedjpgs/iron.jpg I *think* this one is in the >Wallace Collection >http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/fall99/bendlin/page2.html one new and >one repeat >and finally >http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13444/13444-h/13444-h.htm#page101 >which is a facimile of a book published in 1920 which includes >variations on the >de Medici comments. > >I have some theories, any or all of which may be true. I think some of the >corsets may have been shop signs or orthopedic devices. I think some of them >might have been victorian reproductions or fetish objects. (I have >at least one >victorian "naughty" picture of a woman in an iron corset--it is a "medieval" >costume) > >I welcome any thoughts anybody else might have. I have always thought they could be early dress dummies - no boobs ones are easy to pad to shape. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 18:56:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7Nu4IN032757 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:56:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA7Nu1f0002190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:56:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7NtgDO005659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:55:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7NtdVM058008; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:55:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA7NtXJj057922 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:55:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F3E13C3CB for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:55:33 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:55:53 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4550fc89.670857d1.2604.68e6@mx.google.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45511D11.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 18:56:04 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1d9bbb66-5da8-41c6-8180-36044d084c56 Status: RO http://tinyurl.com/e5zh6 -----Original Message----- There's a picture of one here...but I don't think it was actually a corset - a shop sign, perhaps. http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18t h/lingerie18.html Quia Christus perpetuo regnat, Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 19:18:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80Hjpu000675 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:17:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA80HfLE023312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:17:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80EwhE008628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:14:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80Euha074976; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:14:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80EpTv074886 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:14:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9BK1YXPSG9SAW1Y@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:14:01 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9BK2WWHJE9TET8N@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:14:47 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:14:30 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <45512166.7010407@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45512225.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:17:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d600e850-894c-4992-806d-badd373e1da7 Status: RO otsisto wrote: >http://tinyurl.com/e5zh6 > >-----Original Message----- >There's a picture of one here...but I don't think it was actually a corset - >a shop sign, perhaps. > >http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18t >h/lingerie18.html > > > Nice collection... but they've got all their corsets laced the wrong way! -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 19:40:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80e3Ye001195 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:40:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA80duCW006379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:40:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80dSfE012077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80dNN5097035; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:39:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80dITk096960 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:39:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061107220440.XJBI22271.fep33.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:04:40 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.177]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061107220439.DJJV8942.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:04:39 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c702b8$cfbe1f10$b143a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:05:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.161.67.177] at Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:04:36 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] iron corset /kyoto stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4551275C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:40:03 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fbd8628d-bb8e-4b39-9252-1bbeaa5d862a Status: RO Sorry for the strange subjekt. But i followed the link and found the stays pictured at this address: http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18th/lingerie18.htmlI was amazed, because this is the same cut as the Kyoto stays has. I ammaking these stays at the moment.Could it be that staymakers exchanged the patterns to eachother, or did theysimply copy eachother?I am wondering why they date the stays so early, the Kyoto stays are fromthe 1780ies, they are not fully boned, but they have the same cut! I fullyboned the stays.http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htmBjarneLeif og Bjarne Drewswww.my-drewscostumes.dkhttp://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 19:55:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80tREk001670 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:55:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA80tNcx002457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 19:55:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80sXNJ013936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:54:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80sVus009778; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:54:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.192.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA80sRB6009641 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:54:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter88.comcast.net ([204.127.197.188]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20061108005422m1100ngfsne>; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 00:54:22 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by rmailcenter88.comcast.net; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:54:21 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:54:21 +0000 Message-Id: <110820060054.26350.45512ABD000C3379000066EE2209229927969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45512AFB.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:55:27 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e8b85b5f-8b23-4bfb-a7e1-fedefae12627 Status: RO Well, it's a magic routine. It's not as simple as the clothing; there's obviously lot of skill involved in the performance. By the way, my husband the magician says that he is not only familiar with the video, he knows how they're doing it. And he's not telling. Eirene -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Melanie Schuessler > Wow. Triple wow. As I was watching this, I was thinking, "I hope the > directors in my theatre dept. don't see this--they'll be asking me to > make this stuff happen on our stage, and I can't figure out how they're > doing it!" > > Fun stuff. > > Melanie Schuessler > > > Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > A friend sent me this link, her outfit(s) must have been one heck of a > > challenge for the costumer who created it. > > www.youtube.com/v/RB-wUgnyGv0 > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > Elizabeth Walpole > > Canberra Australia > > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > > http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 7 20:25:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA81PL3n002554 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:25:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA81PHCm002495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:25:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA81OdNr018304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:24:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA81OcwM035275; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:24:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.192.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA81OY9G035160 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 18:24:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from rmailcenter03.comcast.net ([204.127.197.113]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20061108012429m1300m17vme>; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 01:24:29 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by rmailcenter03.comcast.net; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 01:24:28 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 01:24:28 +0000 Message-Id: <110820060124.23021.455131CC0005B482000059ED2200745672969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 4 2006) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455131FD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 07 Nov 2006 20:25:20 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 08f94e95-cd24-4d52-89da-1ee855c0b578 Status: RO The closures may keep the fabric together, but the closures don't make the effect. Williams reveals enough about the tricks to sell the book, but not nearly enough to recreate either the costumes or the performance. In the magicians' community, revealing the secrets behind a trick is a violation of trust. If Williams wants to continue to sell to the community, they're not going to tell enough secrets to do the trick; to learn that you have to buy the book. Or three. Eirene the magician's wife -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Genie Barrett > At 06:05 PM 11/6/2006, you wrote: > >Wow. Triple wow. As I was watching this, I was thinking, "I hope > >the directors in my theatre dept. don't see this--they'll be asking > >me to make this stuff happen on our stage, and I can't figure out > >how they're doing it!" > > > >Fun stuff. > > > >Melanie Schuessler > > My hubby did a bit of research. He found that it's all in the closures... > > Here's the direct link... > > http://www.williamsmagic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16741 > > If that doesn't work, go to the main site -- > http://www.williamsmagic.com/ -- and do an advanced search (upper > right corner) for "costume change". The book is called "Quick Change > - Rapid Costume Changes for Men". There are others available there as well. > > have fun > Genie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 07:41:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8CfVPA016055 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:41:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8CfPhu001483 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:41:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8CePMK060906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 05:40:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8CeHPO044600; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 05:40:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8CeCo8044524 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 05:40:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.51.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.51] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Ghmix-0005kr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:40:12 -0500 Message-ID: <4551DDCD.1060003@faucet.net> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:38:21 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT Fw:'quick change artists' References: <006601c70142$a521e600$b6d5f5dc@user4712b7d135> <454FCDB5.2070803@faucet.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20061107075357.019510a8@justinanimator.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4551D076.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:41:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 56013e52-05ef-490c-8ea9-833861d3c52a Status: RO Genie Barrett wrote: > > My hubby did a bit of research. He found that it's all in the closures... > > Here's the direct link... > > http://www.williamsmagic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16741 > Thanks for the link. After watching the thing several times, I do have a pretty good idea of how they're doing this. It's still amazing, of course. The real problem, upon reflection, is that reproducing these effects in a regular stage play might be problematic because of how they're done. I agree with whoever was talking about the invisibility of the closures, but I think only the first couple are tearaways. After that, they're all in really thin fabric and gathered artfully up into the bodice and then released--notice how her skirt gets longer and fuller as she goes along--and someone else already noticed that she gets thinner! His change is perhaps the most impressive to me--that's not easy to do with suits and have the suits still look good. Neat stuff! Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 08:03:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8D3SSW016734 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:03:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8D3NX2000705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:03:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8D2LoQ064562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:02:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8D2JNj065969; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:02:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA85kVt8064010 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 22:46:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1GhgGc0sWd-0004Pv; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:46:31 -0500 Message-ID: <003b01c702f9$3cde91c0$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4550fc89.670857d1.2604.68e6@mx.google.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 00:46:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=24% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4551D59B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:03:28 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 569b7284-c255-424a-b43c-efaaed2ea0b7 Status: RO I have in my online library three images of two metal corsets for this period in chapter 4 of the following book. Book info: W.B.L. (listed author),The Corset and the Crinoline: A Book of Modes and Costumes, London: Ward, Lock, and Tyler, 1868. This book is about the history of corsetry and crinoline. Here is a paragraph from the book about the metal corsets from page 75: "Several writers have mentioned the 'steel corsets' of this period, and assumed that they were used for the purpose of forcibly reducing the size of the waist. In this opinion they were incorrect, as the steel framework in question was simply used to wear over the corset after the waist had been reduced by lacing to the required standard, in order that the dress over it might fit with inflexible and unerring exactness, and that not even a fold might be seen in the faultless stomacher then worn. These corsets (or, more correctly, corset-covers) were constructed of very thin steel plate, which was cut out and wrought into a species of open-work pattern, with a view to giving lightness to them. Numbers of holes were drilled through the flat surfaces between the hollows of the pattern, through which the needle and thread were passed in covering them accurately with velvet, silk, or other rich materials. During the reign of Queen Catherine de Medici, to whom is attributed the invention of these contrivances, they became great favourites, and were much worn, not only at her court, but throughout the greater part of the continent." Catherine's 13" waist is discussed in Chapter 4 and starts on page 72 and the discussion of the metal corsets follows: http://www.costumegallery.com/Library/1868/CorsetBook/Chapter4/pages/p72.htm This book is in our subscription area of the Library. But you can view for no charge a detailed table of contents for the book at: http://www.costumegallery.com/1868/CorsetBook/ . There are ten chapters to this book; we have eight of them online. Chapters 8 and 10 are being coded for the web at this moment. The last part of this project is a complete index from the book and links to their respective webpages. The images for Chapter 10 are online. There are 224 pages to this book and it has been a massive project two-year project of typing, html coding, and prepping the images. Several people have worked on getting this book online. Also a big honorable mention to our lifetime subscriber, Kathleen Mitchell, who loaned us the Corset book to put online. The numbering of the pages may look strange. The numbering of the webpages is exact to what is in the book. Each of the book images took up entire pages, these pages are numbered, thus the missing page numbers. I choose to put smaller images on the same webpage as where they mentioned in the text. Readers may click on the small image and view an enlargement on the text webpages. Or you can view all the images via the image index per chapter from the table of contents. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 08:38:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8DccvF017870 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:38:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8DcX9n031509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:38:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8DbUqv070817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:37:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8DbRMw098489; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:37:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8DbO0E098428 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:37:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so1537746uge for ; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 05:37:23 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=t4B+Xs58pTSKwAOjLC23n0GBwEpjFEfhIxkOk3PiQseSPpR60PPi2NsIhb1lU909+p3D9qvpL3izAn5gBHJIK2vyAko9WWoDM0QmpWpDHCSROhiQ0W5tn480JfDdx5/f62T8JZKFnrSdMDwBW3a1dMl7CEGWsyBKGSwbDE+Oa5g= Received: by 10.67.19.17 with SMTP id w17mr10880190ugi.1162993043495; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 05:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.67.31.3 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 05:37:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070611080537l5b2f3d65i137fc118870bcb8a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:37:23 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset In-Reply-To: <003b01c702f9$3cde91c0$6400a8c0@momlaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4550fc89.670857d1.2604.68e6@mx.google.com> <003b01c702f9$3cde91c0$6400a8c0@momlaptop> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4551DDDA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:38:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3b2d40fc-d782-46a1-9946-98378072ccca Status: RO This from Valerie Steele's "The Corset: A Cultural History" (2001) "There do exist in museum collections certain notorious iron corsets, which are usually dated to about 1580-1600. But were they really the first fashionable corsets? Modern scholars who have examined them tend to believe that these metal corsets were probably orthopedic devices designed to correct spinal deformities. - 'when they are not, as is commonly the case, fanciful "reproductions". There is no evidence that they were worn by women as stays.' Instead, it seems that two types of corsets appeared in the sixteenth century: fashionable corsets created by tailors, which sometimes incorporated metal as well as whalebone stays, and orthopedic corsets constructed from plates of perforated metal, hinged at the sides, which were used by surgeons." Katy On 11/8/06, Penny Ladnier wrote: > I have in my online library three images of two metal corsets for this > period in chapter 4 of the following book. > Book info: > W.B.L. (listed author),The Corset and the Crinoline: A Book of Modes and > Costumes, London: Ward, Lock, and Tyler, 1868. This book is about the > history of corsetry and crinoline. > > Here is a paragraph from the book about the metal corsets from page 75: > > "Several writers have mentioned the 'steel corsets' of this period, and > assumed that they were used for the purpose of forcibly reducing the size of > the waist. In this opinion they were incorrect, as the steel framework in > question was simply used to wear over the corset after the waist had been > reduced by lacing to the required standard, in order that the dress over it > might fit with inflexible and unerring exactness, and that not even a fold > might be seen in the faultless stomacher then worn. These corsets (or, more > correctly, corset-covers) were constructed of very thin steel plate, which > was cut out and wrought into a species of open-work pattern, with a view to > giving lightness to them. Numbers of holes were drilled through the flat > surfaces between the hollows of the pattern, through which the needle and > thread were passed in covering them accurately with velvet, silk, or other > rich materials. During the reign of Queen Catherine de Medici, to whom is > attributed the invention of these contrivances, they became great > favourites, and were much worn, not only at her court, but throughout the > greater part of the continent." > > Catherine's 13" waist is discussed in Chapter 4 and starts on page 72 and > the discussion of the metal corsets follows: > http://www.costumegallery.com/Library/1868/CorsetBook/Chapter4/pages/p72.htm > > This book is in our subscription area of the Library. But you can view for > no charge a detailed table of contents for the book at: > http://www.costumegallery.com/1868/CorsetBook/ . There are ten chapters to > this book; we have eight of them online. Chapters 8 and 10 are being coded > for the web at this moment. The last part of this project is a complete > index from the book and links to their respective webpages. The images for > Chapter 10 are online. There are 224 pages to this book and it has been a > massive project two-year project of typing, html coding, and prepping the > images. Several people have worked on getting this book online. Also a big > honorable mention to our lifetime subscriber, Kathleen Mitchell, who loaned > us the Corset book to put online. > > The numbering of the pages may look strange. The numbering of the webpages > is exact to what is in the book. Each of the book images took up entire > pages, these pages are numbered, thus the missing page numbers. I choose to > put smaller images on the same webpage as where they mentioned in the text. > Readers may click on the small image and view an enlargement on the text > webpages. Or you can view all the images via the image index per chapter > from the table of contents. > > Penny Ladnier, > Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumelibrary.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > www.costumeencyclopedia.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 08:42:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8Dg9uv018010 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:42:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8Dg6wQ001922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:42:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8DfKrC072947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:41:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8DfI3J003681; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:41:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail6.tpgi.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8DfD9s003599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:41:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-240-81-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.240.81]) by mail6.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA8DfBlg029935 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 00:41:12 +1100 Message-ID: <003601c7033b$8d4bfe30$51f0f4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4550fc89.670857d1.2604.68e6@mx.google.com> <003b01c702f9$3cde91c0$6400a8c0@momlaptop> Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 00:41:09 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4551DEAE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:42:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3ca60a6b-0051-4a2e-af8a-7511b1af1a41 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset >I have in my online library three images of two metal corsets for this >period in chapter 4 of the following book. > Book info: > W.B.L. (listed author),The Corset and the Crinoline: A Book of Modes and > Costumes, London: Ward, Lock, and Tyler, 1868. This book is about the > history of corsetry and crinoline. > > Here is a paragraph from the book about the metal corsets from page 75: > > "Several writers have mentioned the 'steel corsets' of this period, and > assumed that they were used for the purpose of forcibly reducing the size > of the waist. In this opinion they were incorrect, as the steel framework > in question was simply used to wear over the corset after the waist had > been reduced by lacing to the required standard, in order that the dress > over it might fit with inflexible and unerring exactness, and that not > even a fold might be seen in the faultless stomacher then worn. These > corsets (or, more correctly, corset-covers) were constructed of very thin > steel plate, which was cut out and wrought into a species of open-work > pattern, with a view to giving lightness to them. Numbers of holes were > drilled through the flat surfaces between the hollows of the pattern, > through which the needle and thread were passed in covering them > accurately with velvet, silk, or other rich materials. During the reign of > Queen Catherine de Medici, to whom is attributed the invention of these > contrivances, they became great favourites, and were much worn, not only > at her court, but throughout the greater part of the continent." > On the topic of 16th century Iron corsets I have heard it said that Eleanor of Toledo may have had an iron corset because she was very ill during the last few years of her life and she was wasting away, because her dressmakers couldn't take her clothes in fast enough to keep up with the disease's progress she was given a rigid metal corset to keep the shape of her gown even though she was several sizes smaller inside it. It came up in the context of the new Moda di Firenze book (is that the right title?) so maybe it's in there, then again it may have been from a different source. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 09:53:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8ErYWE020231 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:53:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8ErUO6026759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:53:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8EqRbw085692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8EqNBx073252; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s7.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s7.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.143]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8EqGS5073164 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.79]) by bay0-omc2-s7.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:52:15 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 06:52:15 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:52:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1162924545.4550d20177cf6@webmail02.unl.edu> Subject: Books on Demand was : [h-cost] iron corset Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:13 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Nov 2006 14:52:15.0448 (UTC) FILETIME=[7AFE9580:01C70345] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4551EF6A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 09:53:34 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 30998793-2172-4ee0-8665-a3a9f9645699 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA8ErYWE020231 Status: RO Looking the 1869 Corset and Crinolines book in bookfinder.com, I came across several "ads" for books on demand printing. http://tinyurl.com/y6cxn6 I had heard it would become a reality several years ago in an editing class I was taking, but didn't know it had done so. Has anyone used this type of service? What do you think? Sg ----- Original Message ----- From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu To: Historical Costume Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:35 AM Subject: [h-cost] iron corset Emma _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 11:24:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8GOE1E022781 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:24:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8GOATb026227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:24:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8GLZxB003046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:21:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8GLJPS069913; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:21:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth15.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth15.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.75]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8GLC6N069766 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:21:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from achasedesign@peoplepc.com) Received: from [209.86.224.51] (helo=mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by smtpauth15.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GhqAn-0004MI-Lp for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:21:09 -0500 Received: from 207.69.137.8 by webmail.peoplepc.com with HTTP; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:21:09 -0500 Message-ID: <13805387.1163002869642.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 08:21:09 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: AVC To: h-costume posts Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-ELNK-Trace: 3778a894565bd4435fbe5647b6c494ea89e6754a908ffd69e00ab3fc97802da2eb8bea14b23b1097dfe6209a9096b523350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.51 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455204AA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:24:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 65a1fa4d-1fef-401d-8d8f-552c22e609fa Status: RO Thanks for the tips on where to find standard sizing. I can't afford it either. I'll just keep on as I have been. An idea on the so tiny waistline. I don't think it was really so tiny for its time. Catherine was 14 years Elizabeth Tudor's senior. Elizabeth grew to be 4'10" and weigh approximately 85 lbs. She was not considered undersized. Assuming that Catherine might not have been much larger, a thirteen inch waist would not have been much more than nicely neat and not the extreme it is today. The armor of French knights of mid -14th cent. would have been a squeeze for Elizabeth. Audy ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 11:44:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8GhqeP023471 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:43:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8GhnBj013081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:43:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8Gh8Bx007236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:43:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8Gh2jL095834; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:43:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8GglhS095461 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:42:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 08 Nov 2006 16:32:31 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMKVUUXUSnIwh2dsb2JhbACMSwEBCQ4q Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:2691 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GhqKB-0000Uk-AS for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:30:51 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061108162842.00ed09a0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:32:21 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure In-Reply-To: <13805387.1163002869642.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl. sa.earthlink.net> References: <13805387.1163002869642.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45520945.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:43:52 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b50cb8c1-d349-41a2-b994-9dfe375f8bbb Status: RO At 16:21 08/11/2006, you wrote: >Thanks for the tips on where to find standard sizing. I can't afford >it either. I'll just keep on as I have been. >An idea on the so tiny waistline. I don't think it was really so >tiny for its time. Catherine was 14 years Elizabeth Tudor's senior. >Elizabeth grew to be 4'10" and weigh approximately 85 lbs. She was >not considered undersized. Assuming that Catherine might not have >been much larger, a thirteen inch waist would not have been much >more than nicely neat and not the extreme it is today. The armor of >French knights of mid -14th cent. would have been a squeeze for Elizabeth. >Audy Where did you get the information about Elizabeth's size? I have always been given to understand that, as her genetic inheritance was Tudor/Plantagenet, and her forebears were tall, that she was at least of average height and build, and even for Tudor times, 4'10" is small. I am sure that there are descriptions from the Spanish Ambassador that give the lie to the size you quote - I don't have my Arnold to hand to find the exact wording. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 12:08:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8H86a5024326 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:08:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8H82fp002495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:08:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8H6c6Y016390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:06:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8H6K1a025662; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:06:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8H5qaV024816 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:06:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cbe.958741 (30740) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:59:46 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:59:45 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45520EF2.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:08:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ef9f79d2-bd97-4470-901b-8752f5515434 Status: RO 13" waist? Baloney! If one is 9 years old maybe. It is true that the average person was smaller then than the average person today....and it is also true that girls who grow up wearing corsets and such can stand tight lacing more than girls who grow up in stretch fabrics. But the difference is not that great. I mean a 20" or 21" waist I can see. But 13" is just one inch more than a damn foot! A foot! Plus the function of a corset in this period is not to synch in the waist. It's not the 1890's y'know! Its function is to create the proper smooth conical shape with the breasts compressed a bit. And why is Catherine using inches anyway? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 12:26:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8HQ4WF024883 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:26:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8HQ0dw017855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:26:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8HNQQi032952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:23:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8HMAg3046679; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:22:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8HLrFh046177 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:21:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08206 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:06:08 -0600 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:06:08 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061108162842.00ed09a0@suziclarke.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45521328.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:26:04 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 82970734-93ea-4521-ba05-feaa65d8eb85 Status: RO On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Suzi Clarke wrote: > >An idea on the so tiny waistline. I don't think it was really so > >tiny for its time. Catherine was 14 years Elizabeth Tudor's senior. > >Elizabeth grew to be 4'10" and weigh approximately 85 lbs. She was > >not considered undersized. Assuming that Catherine might not have > >been much larger, a thirteen inch waist would not have been much > >more than nicely neat and not the extreme it is today. The armor of > >French knights of mid -14th cent. would have been a squeeze for Elizabeth. > >Audy > > Where did you get the information about Elizabeth's size? I have > always been given to understand that, as her genetic inheritance was > Tudor/Plantagenet, and her forebears were tall, that she was at least > of average height and build, and even for Tudor times, 4'10" is small. > I am sure that there are descriptions from the Spanish Ambassador that > give the lie to the size you quote - I don't have my Arnold to hand to > find the exact wording. I second that question! A colleague of mine, in lecturing on Elizabethan costume, liked to quote an account of Elizabeth mocking another woman by demanding and then wearing her overly sumptuous dress ... which, being significantly shorter on the very tall Elizabeth, was deemed unattractive and never seen again. Of course the story might be apocryphal, but I remember the wording of the quotation as sounding Elizabethan. For that matter, I thought it was also a myth (disproved by burial and other evidence) that 14th c. men (like the French knights mentioned below) were significantly smaller than those of later periods. This topic comes up occasionally when I lecture, so I would very much like to hear the supporting information in case I have this wrong. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 12:49:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8HnmlO025589 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:49:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8HniJ6017376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:49:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8HmbSJ090944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:48:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8HmTTW079516; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav16.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8HmL5H079188 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:48:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from luann_mason@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:48:14 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.32.249.108 by BAY106-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:48:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.32.249.108] X-Originating-Email: [luann_mason@msn.com] X-Sender: luann_mason@msn.com From: "LuAnn Mason" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:49:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 09:49:56 -0800 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Nov 2006 17:48:14.0939 (UTC) FILETIME=[10F10AB0:01C7035E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455218B8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:49:47 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fb81a771-a6da-4fe4-8101-24e2d76580b3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA8HnmlO025589 Status: RO Not trying to be difficult, here, but no, not even on a nine year old (says this mom of five kids). I knew the 13" number was ringing a bell for me, but it took a minute for me to remember why. If you check medical charts that compare infants' weight, length and head circumference, you'll see that the measurement for a newborn's head circumference STARTS at 13". STARTS. Like, the kids with the smallest heads who are at risk for microencephaly measure 13" at birth. So picture the smallest, full-term newborn you have ever seen, and it's very likely that their little head was LARGER than this purported 13" measurement. My grandson is not quite two. He is only in the 30th percentile on weight because he's a skinny, bony little dude who is in perpetual motion. We dress him in overalls because pants won't stay up on his non-existant hips and tiny little skinny waist. He measures 20 inches at the waist. LuAnn ----- Original Message ----- From: AlbertCat@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure 13" waist? Baloney! If one is 9 years old maybe. It is true that the average person was smaller then than the average person today....and it is also true that girls who grow up wearing corsets and such can stand tight lacing more than girls who grow up in stretch fabrics. But the difference is not that great. I mean a 20" or 21" waist I can see. But 13" is just one inch more than a damn foot! A foot! Plus the function of a corset in this period is not to synch in the waist. It's not the 1890's y'know! Its function is to create the proper smooth conical shape with the breasts compressed a bit. And why is Catherine using inches anyway? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 13:05:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8I5HSv025999 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:05:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8I5D6j018241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:05:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8I4ZDI028342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:04:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8I4RCg097585; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:04:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8I3ti7096927 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:04:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B247AC561 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:03:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <45521BFD.90500@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:03:41 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45521C59.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:05:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8e7f65aa-267e-40ed-8e63-ccef19f30f68 Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > 13" waist? > > Baloney! > Maybe the 13" was meant to be a hip-to-hip measurement, taken perhaps from a garment laying flat? A petite, yet grown, woman could have such a waist measurement. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 13:15:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IFaWY026269 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:15:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8IFXhc007806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:15:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IDt4j035234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:13:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IDAXw006976; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:13:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8ICufF006657 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:13:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kA8ICsF08526 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:12:54 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail02.unl.edu: nobody set sender to 00217146@bigred.unl.edu using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Message-ID: <1163009574.45521e26b532b@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:12:54 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <45521BFD.90500@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <45521BFD.90500@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45521EC5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:15:36 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a5a738aa-c544-4110-a7a3-32c0262ad99d Status: RO > Maybe the 13" was meant to be a hip-to-hip measurement, taken perhaps > from a garment laying flat? A petite, yet grown, woman could have such a > waist measurement. While that is possible, the sources that reference a 13" waist are all talking about circumference, and they don't actually cite their source for that information. (If somebody, anywhere, mentioned actually measuring something, I would give the entire story much more credit. But nobody does, that I've found.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 13:17:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IHUcf026311 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:17:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8IHRYr009811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:17:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IEvWf035381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:14:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IED68008132; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:14:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from spyder.suffolk.lib.ny.us (spyder.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.6.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8I6PiQ099687 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:07:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us) Received: from bcimpnoz0qs8p0 (nat-pri-12-ppp.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.110.12]) by spyder.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2321594019 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:57:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Beth Chamberlain" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:05:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AccDXkmaBhwVpjEHTsWPM9dQDd6yawAATSIg Message-Id: <20061108175729.CC2321594019@spyder.suffolk.lib.ny.us> X-SuffolkWeb-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-SuffolkWeb-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-SuffolkWeb-MailScanner-From: bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us X-Spam-Status: No X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45521F37.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:17:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5f0df13c-38e2-4d31-99e6-133fec0535e5 Status: RO This doesn't give waist measurements but it does give average heights. IF super small waits were in fashion the portraits of the day would look wildly out of proportion to us. I'm shorter than the average of the time you're looking at and at my thinnest had a barely over 21" waist. Even is I had been corset trained I can't imagine taking 8 inches off, my hips would have jutted out like shelves! http://www.plimoth.org/learn/history/myth/fourfttwomyth.asp Beth Chamberlain _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 13:22:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IMshE026432 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:22:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8IMoo0015409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:22:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IJZ8v036300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:19:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IJ1XP013647; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:19:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.225]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IB70b004663 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:11:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from missdoornink@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s9so2133213wxc for ; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:10:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:from:to:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:in-reply-to:x-mimeole:thread-index:message-id; b=UevUbAps2pPAqckyTCiGUUqN/BFfMgeEmu3UnwoJcqa1MoUgRYydzIQkZmhJshvsZIs4T2pJCi9LDEvqnCyP0rhCouC0mut1AlZ7RCeD+SqoLJeS2MvTkcWfcCOYC47s4XQniao3LMqwRe/Mj2Kx6v1pu3nrh31HE7G/iHtdO54= Received: by 10.90.63.16 with SMTP id l16mr4125925aga.1163009023238; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from doorninklaptop ( [65.40.226.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 9sm9420381wrl.2006.11.08.10.03.41; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:03:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Elisabeth Doornink" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:03:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Thread-Index: AccDXr5t+iexPR1FQvq4sXIlJT1a1wAAUfpw Message-ID: <45521bfe.1fdf25be.3eda.092f@mx.google.com> X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4552207B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:22:54 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 38bee1f5-3ab6-47f3-a667-0aecbb219584 Status: RO Ditto that. I've measured quite a few people, mostly kids, and the smallest girl I have ever measured was a 19" waist - she was a stick thin girl of about 10. And very cut, if I may say so myself. :-) But I reassert - she was really, really thin. My sister Steph is thin, and her waist is 21". Quia Christus perpetuo regnat, Elisabeth -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of LuAnn Mason Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:50 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Not trying to be difficult, here, but no, not even on a nine year old (says this mom of five kids). I knew the 13" number was ringing a bell for me, but it took a minute for me to remember why. If you check medical charts that compare infants' weight, length and head circumference, you'll see that the measurement for a newborn's head circumference STARTS at 13". STARTS. Like, the kids with the smallest heads who are at risk for microencephaly measure 13" at birth. So picture the smallest, full-term newborn you have ever seen, and it's very likely that their little head was LARGER than this purported 13" measurement. My grandson is not quite two. He is only in the 30th percentile on weight because he's a skinny, bony little dude who is in perpetual motion. We dress him in overalls because pants won't stay up on his non-existant hips and tiny little skinny waist. He measures 20 inches at the waist. LuAnn ----- Original Message ----- From: AlbertCat@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure 13" waist? Baloney! If one is 9 years old maybe. It is true that the average person was smaller then than the average person today....and it is also true that girls who grow up wearing corsets and such can stand tight lacing more than girls who grow up in stretch fabrics. But the difference is not that great. I mean a 20" or 21" waist I can see. But 13" is just one inch more than a damn foot! A foot! Plus the function of a corset in this period is not to synch in the waist. It's not the 1890's y'know! Its function is to create the proper smooth conical shape with the breasts compressed a bit. And why is Catherine using inches anyway? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.32/523 - Release Date: 11/7/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 13:51:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8IptH7027060 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:51:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8IppNe011921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:51:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8InfI2047224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:49:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8InToX049469; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:49:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8InKsG049312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:49:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.68] (209-148-118-68.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.68]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA8InILi029641 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:49:19 -0800 Message-ID: <455226B5.3040107@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:49:25 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Books on Demand was : [h-cost] iron corset References: <1162924545.4550d20177cf6@webmail02.unl.edu> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45522747.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:51:55 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 79e7a6e7-29ca-456c-9fcf-621c0305f6e3 Status: RO Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Looking the 1869 Corset and Crinolines book in bookfinder.com, My friend Robb Shep reprinted that at one point, though I don't see it on his list now. I came across several "ads" for books on demand printing. Has anyone used this type of service? There is something called print on demand, or POD, but it actually isn't "on demand." It is used by publishers rather than retailers or consumers. It is used for short print runs, usually under 500 copies, but as far as I know, never for one or two copies. (The latter, BTW, _can_ be done, it's just really expensive.) The unit cost (the cost for one copy of a book) of POD is always higher than for offset printing, which makes the cover price significantly more expensive for consumers. For over 500 copies, it's usually cheaper for everyone to use offset. Current POD technology is based on laser printing, and most POD print services use fairly low resolution; meaning the quality is lower than for offset; particularly for illustrations and very much so for color printing. The other problem with POD printers is that unlike offset printers, they do not have the publisher check proofs every time they print, and they often send the books direct to the wholesaler or retailer who orders, not via the publisher. This means that if they do something like omit a chapter or mix up pages with some other book--both of which I've heard of POD printers doing--no one will know till they read the book. While offset printers are certainly capable of making printing and binding errors, because they do quality checks themselves and then send the publisher proofs--at several stages in the project--before shipping the books to the publisher, most of those errors are caught before a reader sees the book. (Unless it's a flawed but not _too_ flawed book that the publisher winds up selling as a discounted remainder, in which case the publisher probably accepted those copies after getting the printer to make a financial adjustment to compensate for the error.) Bookstores dislike books marketed as POD because they are afraid the publisher will always be out of stock when they order. Getting a book through a POD service takes several months; it's no faster than using an offset printer, which also takes several months. Book reviewers dislike POD due to the existence of several rather sleazy companies who offer additional publishing services such as editing, layout, and cover design, but who perform them badly; so those POD companies have become associated with exceptionally low-quality books. In other words POD is currently considered a suboptimal printing method. We do offset print runs, of about 5,000 books per print run. I have always been dubious about the "POD in the bookstore" model because with the current equipment, I can't see getting your copy of the book in less than half an hour or so. That's longer than most people want to be in a checkout line; and if you multiply it by several other books you're buying, or several other customers ahead of you, well, no one is going to stand around waiting for their purchase to pop off the press. Maybe you could call in ahead and go pick it up--but unless your need is same-day, in that case you might as well just order an offset copy off the Internet. I do see a use for POD equipment, and it probably _is_ used, on site for large corporations wanting to produce short runs of user manuals, technical reports, and in short bound corporate publications that don't have to be too glitzy. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com What do you think? > > Sg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu > To: Historical Costume > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:35 AM > Subject: [h-cost] iron corset > > > Emma > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 14:16:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8JGjIT027722 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:16:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8JGfTt004217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:16:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA8JDlsM059356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:13:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8JDciV078677; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:13:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8JDMwI078264 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:13:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cbe.9867b7 (60467) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:13:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M11 (mblk-m11.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.44]) by ciaaol-m01.mx.aol.com (v114.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM014-ec3345522c443b8; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:13:08 -0500 References: <200611081815.kA8IDBs6006994@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:13:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200611081815.kA8IDBs6006994@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 21462 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.44) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:13:08 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8D1810F748B5E-3D4-1B0F@MBLK-M11.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.44 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fourfoottwo myth; 1690 skirts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45522D19.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:16:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 17100c0d-dc2a-4026-9a40-7bdb7217e728 Status: RO Thanks for posting that link, Beth! That was really interesting. The dead-at-forty thing is something I'm always arguing with people, too. Just because your life expectancy at birth was thirty-five doesn't mean thirty-five-year-olds had gray hair and hobbled around on canes! Bjarne, thanks for answering my question about the 1690 skirts. That was the answer I wanted to hear! :) Tea Rose ========================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:05:57 -0500 From: "Beth Chamberlain" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure This doesn't give waist measurements but it does give average heights. IF super small waits were in fashion the portraits of the day would look wildly out of proportion to us. I'm shorter than the average of the time you're looking at and at my thinnest had a barely over 21" waist. Even is I had been corset trained I can't imagine taking 8 inches off, my hips would have jutted out like shelves! http://www.plimoth.org/learn/history/myth/fourfttwomyth.asp Beth Chamberlain ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 17:15:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MFr4n032456 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:15:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8MFnOD012024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:15:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA8MD2C3079242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:13:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MCpQW079090; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:12:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MCmTw078924 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:12:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6F3AC680 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:12:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4552565B.5070904@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:12:43 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45525715.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:15:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a908db35-4e23-46b8-bf1b-18d64cb6b018 Status: RO I received my copy this morning, and have spent most of the day reading it. I'm more impressed than I thought I would be. First, the quality of the book, the binding, the paper, and the photography, is very good. The first three chapters have a lot of pictures, some I've seen a lot of other places, and many I had not seen before anywhere else. The color is good and the photos are clear, even though most are less than 3" across. The first part of the book is chock full of details and tidbits of clothing information taken from sources, covering things like the weave and cut of hose, foundation padding, hair dressing, the costs of different kinds of stockings, and the colors used for petticoats. Some of the text is footnoted with sources, some of it is not. It rather rambles with no set direction, but it's interesting. There is a useful table on period fabrics, and a short section on basic sewing techniques like buttonholes and pleats. However, this is not a beginner's book. You should have a moderate sewing ability, including being able to draft up the scale diagrams and alter them to fit you, and construct them with minimal directions. It will help immensely if you already have some experience with clothing from this period, because a lot of the instructions given are very scant, and if you don't know what it is supposed to look like, you'll be lost. There's a page on how to fit men's hose, which might be useful to some people I know. However, there's also a picture of a man in hose with slashes above the knee, and no hint of how they're made. Obviously, there's slashes, but there's also some kind of lining which isn't explained. There's a number of other patterns which variations pictured -- some of which can be figured out by looking at other patterns, and some of which are again never explained. Mostly, it's sleeves. The patterns cover a good spectrum, male and female, upper and lower class, Henrician and Elizabethan styles. I wish some of the accompanying photos of the modelled clothing were larger and showed more detail. There's directions for farthingales and rolls, ruffs and collars, and about ten hats and hoods. My main complaint about the patterns is they are mostly undocumented. There's nothing on them alluding to a source garment or painting used as reference. The few exceptions, like the loose kirtle, are already covered in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_. Finally, the models are all impossibly thin and the patterns are drafted for the size 12-14 range. If you are larger than that, and a lot of folks these days are, you are in for a lot of work. Overall, I was pleased with the book. It's a good one-stop source for the 1500's if you're going to be doing recreation clothing. If you already have patterns or a wardrobe you don't *need* this book, but some of the reference photos might make it worth it. If you've never sewn anything before, this might be a little overwhelming and I would definitely brush up on basic sewing and fitting techniques or work with an experienced helper. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 17:45:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MjFIj000758 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:45:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8MjB71026632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:45:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA8MibYp006437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:44:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MiTGq015359; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:44:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA8MiLK1015115 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:44:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCXEZPPA5Q2QR2 for (sender ); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:43:57 -0800 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgi4mB7ad5UqcE6bMoSY9/+U= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L6PJWB6Q; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:43:28 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 14:26:02 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Message-ID: <20061108.144254.3700.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,11-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 3:4:2739499584 X-MAIL-INFO: 26f0744d3520500959a1c1c13931d55051dd91347d4540091dd5f9a5c5cd99a5644dd1557d04f441fd X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45525DF7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:45:15 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 550fbdb2-33b2-45fa-8a27-0606e6d48a03 Status: RO On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:03:41 -0600 Dawn writes: > AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > 13" waist? > > > > Baloney! Check out the Guiness Book of World Records. They have a tiny measurement for a modern woman you and I would consider average-sized, but darned if I can remember what the exact measurement was! Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 17:51:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8Mp4ta000895 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:51:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8Mp0ai030313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:51:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA8MoZt2013306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:50:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MoRvL021925; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:50:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MoCS4021555 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:50:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cc9.277b712 (45286) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by ciaaol-m05.mx.aol.com (v113.6) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM054-b0e645525f1428f; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:49:59 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <20061108.144254.3700.3.Cley@juno.com> References: <20061108.144254.3700.3.Cley@juno.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:49:53 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45525F54.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:51:04 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d16948c9-f40f-449a-8b01-f39e871e5ee5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA8Mp4ta000895 Status: RO And she looks AWFUL ! Deformed, even! I saw her on TV. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Nov 8, 2006, at 5:26 PM, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > > > On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 12:03:41 -0600 Dawn writes: >> AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >> >>> 13" waist? >>> >>> Baloney! > > Check out the Guiness Book of World Records. They have a tiny > measurement > for a modern woman you and I would consider average-sized, but darned > if > I can remember what the exact measurement was! > > Arlys > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 18:00:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8N0hc7001093 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:00:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8N0dG5003768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:00:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA8MxxtI015219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:59:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MxsSR032659; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:59:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (root@marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.233]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MxZ3J032286 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:59:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sonja@louisiana.edu) Received: from pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu (root@pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.229]) by marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/ull-ucs-mx-host_1.9a) with ESMTP id kA8MxR8J015291 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:59:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from louisiana.edu (skr5996@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/ull-ucs-client_1.7) with ESMTP id kA8MxQ8r014458 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:59:27 -0600 (CST) From: "Sonja" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:59:26 -0600 Message-Id: <20061108224339.M19918@louisiana.edu> In-Reply-To: <200611081900.kA8J0QBH062665@net.indra.com> References: <200611081900.kA8J0QBH062665@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: OpenWebMail 2.52 20060831 X-OriginatingIP: 130.70.141.184 (skr5996) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Corset Training for 13" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45526197.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:00:43 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1f16fd6e-8d99-4017-ad36-e6245faf0389 Status: RO I didn't see anyone post this, so I thought I would go ahead.  I do hope this is not considered off-topic; my apologies if so.  The 13" waist is achieved through a strict body modification process called "tightlacing" or corset training.  The measurement is taken just as you would for a regular waistline.  It is not a matter of being thin or petite.  It is a lifestyle enjoyed by both men and women.  (sorry I could not find info on the man I had in mind--he loves to wear interesting costumes)  Time and dedication are the key factors.  Although once the fashion, corset training is considered a fetish by most.  Extremely small waistlines have been found throughout history and most of the people I run into think it is a fluke, hoax, or someone got the history wrong.  Please think in terms of the social and cultural history of the time without preconceived modern notions.  You can't achieve the wisp waist by simply sucking in and tying off.  When trained, especially from childhoo! d as women once were, an adult could very well have a waistline close to the infamous, mysterious 13 inches which has been done by Ethel Granger.  Do I train? GOSH NO!  I just enjoy a corset every now and then.  Bellydancers let it out.  :O)  Hope you find this helpful or at least fun to know, Sonja Here are some links: http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery05/lillielangry/index.html http://www.victoriaspast.com/Corsets/modification.htm http://www.ethelgranger.com/   and   http://www.cathiejung.com/   http://www.geocities.com/ther_over/comments.htm  Has an 1800's (I think) corset ad with a man. Please don't mind the downtime for Geocities. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 18:41:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NfEfO001994 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:41:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8NfAKJ016590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:41:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA8NdYJ0022801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NdQBo076372; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:39:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NdM2p076277 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:39:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kA8NdKj17623 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:39:20 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail02.unl.edu: nobody set sender to 00217146@bigred.unl.edu using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Training for 13" Message-ID: <1163029160.45526aa899b3f@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 17:39:20 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <200611081900.kA8J0QBH062665@net.indra.com> <20061108224339.M19918@louisiana.edu> In-Reply-To: <20061108224339.M19918@louisiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45526B16.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:41:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b5ac62fd-9ea0-49cc-8581-a19b460a1d49 Status: RO Thank you for sharing this. A 13 inch waist is not impossible, but I'd be interested in any pre-Victorian examples. (I'm not sure the waist training necessary for a 13-inch waist is possible with an Elizabethan-style corset. The shapes are profoundly different.) Emma Quoting Sonja : > I didn't see anyone post this, so I thought I would go ahead. I do hope > this is not considered off-topic; my apologies if so. The 13" waist is > achieved through a strict body modification process called "tightlacing" > or corset training. The measurement is taken just as you would for a > regular waistline. It is not a matter of being thin or petite. It is a > lifestyle enjoyed by both men and women. (sorry I could not find info > on the man I had in mind--he loves to wear interesting costumes) Time > and dedication are the key factors. Although once the fashion, corset > training is considered a fetish by most. Extremely small waistlines > have been found throughout history and most of the people I run into > think it is a fluke, hoax, or someone got the history wrong. Please > think in terms of the social and cultural history of the time without > preconceived modern notions. You can't achieve the wisp waist by simply > sucking in and tying off. When trained, especially from childhoo! > d as women once were, an adult could very well have a waistline close > to the infamous, mysterious 13 inches which has been done by Ethel > Granger. Do I train? GOSH NO! I just enjoy a corset every now and > then. Bellydancers let it out. :O) > > Hope you find this helpful or at least fun to know, Sonja > > Here are some links: > http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery05/lillielangry/index.html > http://www.victoriaspast.com/Corsets/modification.htm > http://www.ethelgranger.com/ and http://www.cathiejung.com/ > http://www.geocities.com/ther_over/comments.htm Has an 1800's (I think) > corset ad with a man. Please don't mind the downtime for Geocities. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > http://anvil.unl.edu/emma http://HelixHandworks.etsy.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 18:44:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NiwZl002045 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:44:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8Nis6A006743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:44:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA8NiHqW023606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NiF7C081555; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:44:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s39.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s39.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.111]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NiBuS081438 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:44:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.74]) by bay0-omc1-s39.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:44:06 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:44:06 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:44:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13805387.1163002869642.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061108162842.00ed09a0@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:44:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:44:07 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Nov 2006 23:44:06.0588 (UTC) FILETIME=[C7841FC0:01C7038F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45526BF6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:44:58 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 91e4a2a3-a946-49fc-866c-613d61172536 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA8NiwZl002045 Status: RO Did the article Janet Arnold do on the Efigy corset give dimensions? I remember asking Drea about it...hmmm..old brain condition prevents me from recalling. I would think that you could work out a realistic height and waist measurement from that. Otherwise, I have never heard specific weight and heights given for Elizabeth....I'd like to see this too. Sg ----- Original Message ----- Where did you get the information about Elizabeth's size? I have always been given to understand that, as her genetic inheritance was Tudor/Plantagenet, and her forebears were tall, that she was at least of average height and build, and even for Tudor times, 4'10" is small. I am sure that there are descriptions from the Spanish Ambassador that give the lie to the size you quote - I don't have my Arnold to hand to find the exact wording. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 18:53:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NrMVk002219 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:53:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA8NrIXn026303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:53:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA8Nqowm025087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:52:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8Nqi59091009; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:52:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8NqaNh090735 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cc3.30624aa (41810) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:52:26 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:52:26 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Training for 13" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45526DEE.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:53:22 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4ce5e12c-f76a-42d0-822e-8ceb94ea4f1d Status: RO In a message dated 11/8/2006 6:40:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 00217146@bigred.unl.edu writes: Thank you for sharing this. A 13 inch waist is not impossible, but I'd be interested in any pre-Victorian examples. (I'm not sure the waist training necessary for a 13-inch waist is possible with an Elizabethan-style corset. The shapes are profoundly different.) ************** Yes! Like I said, the goal of a Renn. corset is not to synch in the waist. It all sounds like a post 19th century myth. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 19:04:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9041sG002474 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:04:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA903wmv018938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:04:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA903W8F026904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:03:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA903Gx0002203; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:03:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9035rU001929 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:03:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.84]) by bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:02:56 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:02:56 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 00:02:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:02:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:02:58 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 00:02:56.0735 (UTC) FILETIME=[6922DEF0:01C70392] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Other resources for 1800's gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4552706E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:04:01 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1214fddf-581f-4c01-a94b-39be76075ec8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA9041sG002474 Status: RO Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could point me to resources (books, etc.) which might help me find out more about this style of gown. http://tinyurl.com/hzc6a I've been asked to make and under dress, head dress and gloves for it for the Phoenix Art Museum. What I am specifically looking for are headdresses which would be worn and information which might tell me if the under dress for this gown would have been full length. (I have seen some illustrations that would indicate you could see the lower leg of the woman under the outer dress - and the cut off of the under dress is visible.) Also, does the train necessarily indicate that it was a court dress? Oh and also what the gloves would have been made from? (I have all the standard pattern books, Waugh, Arnold etc. and the standard general histories of costume, Davenport, Payne, Boucher) I just got this one through bookfinders: The Age of Napoleon: Costume from Revolution to Empire, 1789-1815) Any others you would recommend? Thanks for the pointers in advance, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 19:05:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9051dH002486 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:05:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA904veY002334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:05:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA904LGG027112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:04:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA904ICx003293; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:04:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA904BET003164 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:04:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m22so14495nzf for ; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:04:10 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=uDJ1brpjYslyLpnQxuy4DFoHVDCukwebsraCcpzTR8jj+8arWcAET0Ftq7WwI5fmJCrCXVi6GZ8kSFNIxWfA6x8opubzAE4uyz0D5F79O4VDQIaQKeaEb+o7ztnQJ/B9akPtjtuiCSmLeckjipLLBTmhTu+hrjNpBCX5A4p+hcs= Received: by 10.64.151.17 with SMTP id y17mr300575qbd.1163030650295; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:04:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.196.1 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:04:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:04:10 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: re: [h-cost] iron corset MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455270A9.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:05:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 114a27fe-353e-4c79-8a39-4b9e78729077 Status: RO There's a line in Eleanora di Firenza's accounts that shows she ordered two. One is in either the Bargello or the Palazzo Vecchio collection in Florence. I saw it last summer. The docent there claimed the steel corset was ordered as an orthotic, rather like a backbrace. Another is in the Italian Rennaissance exhibit at the V&A London. This one I saw 2 weeks ago, tho I dont recall the owning organization. Both of these corsets are steel. The catalog for "At Home in the Italian Rennaissance" states the corset is from the Museo Stibbert collection, provenance unknown. The catalog says this corset is for a 65cm bust. You'll find papers and original docs referenced in each of these catalogs. I've never seen anything on iron corsets. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of 00217146@bigred.unl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:36 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] iron corset I'm trying to find information on the iron corsets that show up in museum collections and shocking costume- or corset-history websites. Specifically, I'm trying to track down sources for some of the information that is bandied about (without references) online. For example, is there any written evidence that Catherine de Medici ever wore one, for example? Are there documents regarding her (supposed) insistance that the ladies of her court maintain a 13 inch waist? I've heard of an account of a 16th century doctor having one made as a back brace, does anybody know where this came from? Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 19:10:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90AkCH002609 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:10:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA90AhGv025072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:10:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA90AOaS028565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:10:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90ALl9010090; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:10:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90AHoH009876 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:10:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EADBAC6F2 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:10:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <455271E4.8000102@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:10:12 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Training for 13" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45527203.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:10:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8a841228-cc44-490c-b061-9c2125ff0803 Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > ************** > > Yes! Like I said, the goal of a Renn. corset is not to synch in the waist. > > It all sounds like a post 19th century myth. I'm beginning to think that myself. All the web sources seem to point back to _The Corset and the Crinoline_ from 1868. I bet they reprinted a Victorian era urban legend. Does anyone have an actual copy of this book, who can check the footnotes? I've found an online version, but the notes are not given with the text. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 19:31:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90Vot1003008 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:31:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA90VkNQ009005 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:31:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA90UvSv032518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90UrWk032318; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:30:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA90UnPF032122 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:30:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 95558 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Nov 2006 00:30:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=h2IfFS315cGCcvOiWYXsRrW9X/qin5ElKICJSy4uPfI/JI+JHNP3Pd2GjFUopomREhguJLjfHR3+XEfXgzry4kv/rwgP2Y6elNmJt+Dx0v3zF8Yay/0N3IL7Xyx+EOIU/FrSeirT3xbweWs+6tjsiuLyZtHZcGRhWvxa4SIj7Gc= ; Message-ID: <20061109003044.95556.qmail@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:30:44 PST Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:30:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Other resources for 1800's gown To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455276F2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:31:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 73b72392-62bd-4d1c-9b52-90db23f3617c Status: RO I am constructing a dress simular to this one except my dress has princess front and squared neckline and a detatchable cape. This one is gorgeous. Hope mine looks as good! Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com Saragrace Knauf wrote: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could point me to resources (books, etc.) which might help me find out more about this style of gown. http://tinyurl.com/hzc6a I've been asked to make and under dress, head dress and gloves for it for the Phoenix Art Museum. What I am specifically looking for are headdresses which would be worn and information which might tell me if the under dress for this gown would have been full length. (I have seen some illustrations that would indicate you could see the lower leg of the woman under the outer dress - and the cut off of the under dress is visible.) Also, does the train necessarily indicate that it was a court dress? Oh and also what the gloves would have been made from? (I have all the standard pattern books, Waugh, Arnold etc. and the standard general histories of costume, Davenport, Payne, Boucher) I just got this one through bookfinders: The Age of Napoleon: Costume from Revolution to Empire, 1789-1815) Any others you would recommend? Thanks for the pointers in advance, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Sponsored Link $200,000 mortgage for $660/mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt, home equity - Click now for info _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 19:32:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90Wj1D003031 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:32:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA90Wg1l023753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:32:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA90WFpr032997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:32:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90WDfH034108; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:32:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZIXVPM01.creighton.edu [147.134.0.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA8MxXei032302 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 15:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cynthiaabel@creighton.edu) Received: from zixvpm01.creighton.edu (ZixVPM [127.0.0.1]) by Outbound.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 2BA142E84E8 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:02:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by zixvpm01.creighton.edu (Proprietary) with ESMTP id 09B512E84CD for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:02:57 -0600 (CST) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27687 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:59:32 -0600 (CST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:59:18 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Thread-Index: AccDgwNcWP2S5F3kSXiCfYT81sgzjAABbBng From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA8MxXei032302 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4552772A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:32:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 02e75a97-6f07-4239-a6d7-af97b0ce1f16 Status: RO A very excellent review, and yes the female models(which may be the authors' themselves) are very thin. We should remember that these are European authors and patterns, both who are slimmer than Americans. I might add that these patterns are scale ones so a projector or graph paper is a must in sizing these patterns up to "real scale" What I liked most about the book was the inclusion of middle and lower class clothing and the color swatches of 16th century colors. I'm guessing that the authors presupposed that anyone that would want their book would have already had read or owned Arnold's books and perhaps, Jean Hunnisett's as well. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review I received my copy this morning, and have spent most of the day reading it. I'm more impressed than I thought I would be. First, the quality of the book, the binding, the paper, and the photography, is very good. The first three chapters have a lot of pictures, some I've seen a lot of other places, and many I had not seen before anywhere else. The color is good and the photos are clear, even though most are less than 3" across. The first part of the book is chock full of details and tidbits of clothing information taken from sources, covering things like the weave and cut of hose, foundation padding, hair dressing, the costs of different kinds of stockings, and the colors used for petticoats. Some of the text is footnoted with sources, some of it is not. It rather rambles with no set direction, but it's interesting. There is a useful table on period fabrics, and a short section on basic sewing techniques like buttonholes and pleats. However, this is not a beginner's book. You should have a moderate sewing ability, including being able to draft up the scale diagrams and alter them to fit you, and construct them with minimal directions. It will help immensely if you already have some experience with clothing from this period, because a lot of the instructions given are very scant, and if you don't know what it is supposed to look like, you'll be lost. There's a page on how to fit men's hose, which might be useful to some people I know. However, there's also a picture of a man in hose with slashes above the knee, and no hint of how they're made. Obviously, there's slashes, but there's also some kind of lining which isn't explained. There's a number of other patterns which variations pictured -- some of which can be figured out by looking at other patterns, and some of which are again never explained. Mostly, it's sleeves. The patterns cover a good spectrum, male and female, upper and lower class, Henrician and Elizabethan styles. I wish some of the accompanying photos of the modelled clothing were larger and showed more detail. There's directions for farthingales and rolls, ruffs and collars, and about ten hats and hoods. My main complaint about the patterns is they are mostly undocumented. There's nothing on them alluding to a source garment or painting used as reference. The few exceptions, like the loose kirtle, are already covered in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_. Finally, the models are all impossibly thin and the patterns are drafted for the size 12-14 range. If you are larger than that, and a lot of folks these days are, you are in for a lot of work. Overall, I was pleased with the book. It's a good one-stop source for the 1500's if you're going to be doing recreation clothing. If you already have patterns or a wardrobe you don't *need* this book, but some of the reference photos might make it worth it. If you've never sewn anything before, this might be a little overwhelming and I would definitely brush up on basic sewing and fitting techniques or work with an experienced helper. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 19:42:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90gQdK003212 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:42:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA90gMSa031176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:42:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA90fdG7034878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:41:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90faTD043811; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:41:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail6.tpgi.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90fUDJ043697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:41:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-219-118-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.118]) by mail6.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA90fRY6023873 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:41:29 +1100 Message-ID: <006001c70397$ca864290$76dbf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Other resources for 1800's gown Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:41:26 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4552796E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:42:25 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8c593ecb-10dd-4c8c-9663-b32979b66204 Status: RO You might want to have a look at this collection of fashion plates http://hal.ucr.edu/~cathy/reg3.html the train certainly shows up on dresses worn for occasions other than court, but given the length of the train I'd still assume it was for a full dress occasion. Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "h-costume" Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:02 AM Subject: [h-cost] Other resources for 1800's gown Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could point me to resources (books, etc.) which might help me find out more about this style of gown. http://tinyurl.com/hzc6a I've been asked to make and under dress, head dress and gloves for it for the Phoenix Art Museum. What I am specifically looking for are headdresses which would be worn and information which might tell me if the under dress for this gown would have been full length. (I have seen some illustrations that would indicate you could see the lower leg of the woman under the outer dress - and the cut off of the under dress is visible.) Also, does the train necessarily indicate that it was a court dress? Oh and also what the gloves would have been made from? (I have all the standard pattern books, Waugh, Arnold etc. and the standard general histories of costume, Davenport, Payne, Boucher) I just got this one through bookfinders: The Age of Napoleon: Costume from Revolution to Empire, 1789-1815) Any others you would recommend? Thanks for the pointers in advance, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 19:56:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90uOj2003659 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:56:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA90uLTB026811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:56:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA90txVA037095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:55:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA90tu6x057008; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:55:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.163]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kA90tpJS056871 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:55:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 59615 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Nov 2006 00:55:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IefeHUb5/+SRBqHLj1tPeZFK7zrU2VlfwQapGa+9NoarnCbCBB1o2Scb+LxpEH7S0M5UDusKI9vfOzcHRTc8894+g6bMwM8pKjM3sz5IM+3CMe1KfNBTS0jS7YlkgYktJWYS9INBpsjKrdIfgvNsrOC2Um5rRvJNJtxkl104qOI= ; Message-ID: <20061109005546.59613.qmail@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.148.244.88] by web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:55:46 PST Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:55:46 -0800 (PST) From: Galadriel Lothlorien Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Training for 13" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200611090033.kA90X4TR035088@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45527CB5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:56:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: bf10194c-f70b-418b-a9b1-bb1528e5167d Status: RO > http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery05/lillielangry/index.html That first photo looks modified on the left (her right) at the waist. Somebody posted a link here once about modified old photos but I don't have it anymore. As for iron corsets, if they were anything normal, don't you think we'd have lots more of them in existence? I mean, they're IRON! They don't disintegrate. I'm in the "medical purposes" camp as far as those go. --Rachel ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Get an Online or Campus degree Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than one year. http://www.findtherightschool.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 20:17:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91HHEQ004257 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:17:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA91HDPM010978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:17:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA91F4Ja039669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:15:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91ExR5073071; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:14:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91Eqnm072977 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:14:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail3.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.166]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35D95131D2A for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:14:50 +1100 (EST) Received: from 203-214-122-219.dyn.iinet.net.au (203-214-122-219.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.214.122.219]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:14:50 +1100 Message-ID: <1163034890.4552810aa4d76@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:14:50 +1100 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: re: [h-cost] iron corset References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45528199.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:17:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 0d406a39-0fc9-45c9-a16f-95df4304e1b0 Status: RO Jeeze, you know, I wish I still had some of the old research materials I used for a film I worked on last century (last century, I love being able to say that)... There are various kinds of these things around. Of the most common pics I've seen are ones that are considered to be ceremonial or decorative wear -- not for everyday use or combat, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 20:19:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91JOTB004311 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:19:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA91JLNa012435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:19:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA91HWsW039936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:17:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91HUa8075100; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:17:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91HSlK074985 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:17:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EABDDAC725 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:17:16 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4552819D.2050002@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:17:17 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Training for 13" References: <20061109005546.59613.qmail@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061109005546.59613.qmail@web37901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45528219.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:19:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 30db6afe-4e09-49fd-a8bc-07e079291e9b Status: RO Galadriel Lothlorien wrote: > As for iron corsets, if they were anything normal, > don't you think we'd have lots more of them in > existence? I mean, they're IRON! They don't > disintegrate. I'm in the "medical purposes" camp as > far as those go. But they do get melted down for war materiel along with a lot of other "old useless stuff" periodically. For example, a lot of decorative ironwork got stripped off Victorian buildings in order to build ships for WW1. It can never be replaced. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 20:35:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91ZWQK004742 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:35:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA91ZSMM011971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:35:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA91Yu1b042310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:34:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91Yt6V089665; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:34:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91YoAw089607 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:34:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kA91YmA20653 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:34:48 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail02.unl.edu: nobody set sender to 00217146@bigred.unl.edu using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset Training for 13" Message-ID: <1163036088.455285b8a91dc@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:34:48 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <455271E4.8000102@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <455271E4.8000102@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455285E1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:35:32 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a381cc1a-36cd-4f18-81b7-ab8e0108b5a8 Status: RO > Does anyone have an actual copy of this book, who can check the > footnotes? I've found an online version, but the notes are not given > with the text. I've got one coming. It should arrive by the beginning of next week. Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 20:49:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91nXKb005099 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:49:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA91nRGI009708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:49:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA91mPVK044445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:48:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91mMWn001466; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:48:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA91mJQB001420 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:48:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1Ghz1d2Ajv-0003tr; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:48:18 -0500 Message-ID: <003201c703a1$1c5be170$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:48:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45528927.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:49:33 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 47b1e7fb-42f7-4168-9729-cdde425cee5a Status: RO Luann, I understand what you mean. My grand-daughter is thin like yours and one year old. She has food allergies. She is very low in the percentile on the growth chart. I just measured her and she has a 19" waist. I have always thought the adult under 20" waist was a crock. If you look at children's pattern sizes, the waist sizes are larger than 19". http://www.sewingpatterns.com/simplicity-charts2.html#babies My DIL said her waist was 20" before having children and was a size 0. She is very petite built. When I was a teenager and very thin, I had a 24" waist. I started sewing with patterns in third grade and do not recall my waist smaller. The Valentine Museum has a lot of corsets in their collection and the smallest waist is one corset at 20". OTOH, The Corset book I mentioned has a chapter that about small waists in the late 1700s or early 1800s. The author took quotes from Parisian magazines/newspapers of young ladies writing the newspapers about their small waist sizes. I took the chapter with a big grain of salt. The author only does this in that one chapter. His style of writing changes completely in this chapter. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 21:21:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA92LVDu005825 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:21:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA92LPbH005818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:21:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA92JhdJ049860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:19:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA92Jfdf031869; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:19:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA92JbKP031751 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:19:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0J8F008LCYGHGYE0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:19:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:19:26 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455290A6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:21:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 33933450-1a99-4d11-b99f-c7150c44b2b9 Status: RO Eleonora di Toledo used these (probably) in the early yaers of her infection with TB (Circa 1550). She insisted on being out in public with her husband Duke Cosimo I de Medici and she wore these under her gowns so her posture would stay erect. It is possible that she was worried bad posture might set off a coughing fit-- perhaps she did not wish to appear ill or weak. Best regards- Monica Monica Spence -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Cin Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:04 PM To: h-cost Subject: re: [h-cost] iron corset There's a line in Eleanora di Firenza's accounts that shows she ordered two. One is in either the Bargello or the Palazzo Vecchio collection in Florence. I saw it last summer. The docent there claimed the steel corset was ordered as an orthotic, rather like a backbrace. Another is in the Italian Rennaissance exhibit at the V&A London. This one I saw 2 weeks ago, tho I dont recall the owning organization. Both of these corsets are steel. The catalog for "At Home in the Italian Rennaissance" states the corset is from the Museo Stibbert collection, provenance unknown. The catalog says this corset is for a 65cm bust. You'll find papers and original docs referenced in each of these catalogs. I've never seen anything on iron corsets. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of 00217146@bigred.unl.edu Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:36 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] iron corset I'm trying to find information on the iron corsets that show up in museum collections and shocking costume- or corset-history websites. Specifically, I'm trying to track down sources for some of the information that is bandied about (without references) online. For example, is there any written evidence that Catherine de Medici ever wore one, for example? Are there documents regarding her (supposed) insistance that the ladies of her court maintain a 13 inch waist? I've heard of an account of a 16th century doctor having one made as a back brace, does anybody know where this came from? Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 21:33:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA92XomQ006070 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:33:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA92XkNr011476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:33:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA92Wv4H053060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA92WtdK044103; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA92WpV7044040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:32:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.104] (209-148-118-104.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.104]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA92WZeC010853 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:32:44 -0800 Message-ID: <45529348.3080704@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:32:40 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4552938A.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:33:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 38478442-46a0-4e05-a053-3a78bf7f3755 Status: RO TB is not just a lung disease; you can get tuberculosis of the spine. Fran monica spence wrote: > Eleonora di Toledo used these (probably) in the early yaers of her infection > with TB (Circa 1550). She insisted on being out in public with her husband > Duke Cosimo I de Medici and she wore these under her gowns so her posture > would stay erect. It is possible that she was worried bad posture might set > off a coughing fit-- perhaps she did not wish to appear ill or weak. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 22:23:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA93NBWW007123 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:23:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA93N7Yo008902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:23:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA93MTRE064923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:22:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA93MPmj090330; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:22:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA93MLT8090272 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:22:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AD691FEE0524; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 03:15:53 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:22:23 -0800 Message-ID: <000f01c703ae$463ffd20$0300a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-reply-to: <4552565B.5070904@reddawn.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45529F1B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 22:23:10 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7e1e7808-7cd8-4189-b50d-0e7893de2818 Status: RO I made a "Mary Tudor" dress using the book and was pleasantly surprised. Nice french hood patterns. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review I received my copy this morning, and have spent most of the day reading it. I'm more impressed than I thought I would be. First, the quality of the book, the binding, the paper, and the photography, is very good. The first three chapters have a lot of pictures, some I've seen a lot of other places, and many I had not seen before anywhere else. The color is good and the photos are clear, even though most are less than 3" across. The first part of the book is chock full of details and tidbits of clothing information taken from sources, covering things like the weave and cut of hose, foundation padding, hair dressing, the costs of different kinds of stockings, and the colors used for petticoats. Some of the text is footnoted with sources, some of it is not. It rather rambles with no set direction, but it's interesting. There is a useful table on period fabrics, and a short section on basic sewing techniques like buttonholes and pleats. However, this is not a beginner's book. You should have a moderate sewing ability, including being able to draft up the scale diagrams and alter them to fit you, and construct them with minimal directions. It will help immensely if you already have some experience with clothing from this period, because a lot of the instructions given are very scant, and if you don't know what it is supposed to look like, you'll be lost. There's a page on how to fit men's hose, which might be useful to some people I know. However, there's also a picture of a man in hose with slashes above the knee, and no hint of how they're made. Obviously, there's slashes, but there's also some kind of lining which isn't explained. There's a number of other patterns which variations pictured -- some of which can be figured out by looking at other patterns, and some of which are again never explained. Mostly, it's sleeves. The patterns cover a good spectrum, male and female, upper and lower class, Henrician and Elizabethan styles. I wish some of the accompanying photos of the modelled clothing were larger and showed more detail. There's directions for farthingales and rolls, ruffs and collars, and about ten hats and hoods. My main complaint about the patterns is they are mostly undocumented. There's nothing on them alluding to a source garment or painting used as reference. The few exceptions, like the loose kirtle, are already covered in Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_. Finally, the models are all impossibly thin and the patterns are drafted for the size 12-14 range. If you are larger than that, and a lot of folks these days are, you are in for a lot of work. Overall, I was pleased with the book. It's a good one-stop source for the 1500's if you're going to be doing recreation clothing. If you already have patterns or a wardrobe you don't *need* this book, but some of the reference photos might make it worth it. If you've never sewn anything before, this might be a little overwhelming and I would definitely brush up on basic sewing and fitting techniques or work with an experienced helper. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 23:10:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA94AWNK007990 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:10:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA94ANpe015852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:10:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA949tPm073898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:09:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA949rHf031075; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:09:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA949KB5030674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:09:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kA957Yc2012061 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 00:07:34 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Other resources for 1800's gown Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:14:14 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <20061109003044.95556.qmail@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061109003044.95556.qmail@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611082314.14468.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4552AA2F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:10:27 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 53936300-bf73-43d4-9311-b7c44810bd6c Status: RO On Wednesday 08 November 2006 7:30 pm, Voncile W. Dudley wrote: > I am constructing a dress simular to this one except my dress has princess > front and squared neckline and a detatchable cape. > > This one is gorgeous. Hope mine looks as good! > Lady Von > http://www.wildthangstreasures.com I would love to check out your page, but I still can't make any of the links work.... -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 8 23:36:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA94aM83008659 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:36:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA94aG59005476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:36:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA94ZXpv077574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:35:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA94ZOlX051133; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:35:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA94ZIqA051009 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:35:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0J8G00EY14QLJ3N0@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:35:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:35:06 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset In-reply-to: <45529348.3080704@lavoltapress.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4552B040.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 23:36:22 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1dadbd97-a0bd-4d43-9262-b1406a3fc5ab Status: RO Eleonora had TB of the lungs. Contemporary commentators (Cellini, for instance) talked and wrote about how she coughed and brought up blood. And she was notoriously stubborn about accepting medical treatments. OTOH, She daily drank a quart of mineral water from a thermal spring to help her. Not that there was much they could do at the time... Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:33 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset TB is not just a lung disease; you can get tuberculosis of the spine. Fran monica spence wrote: > Eleonora di Toledo used these (probably) in the early yaers of her infection > with TB (Circa 1550). She insisted on being out in public with her husband > Duke Cosimo I de Medici and she wore these under her gowns so her posture > would stay erect. It is possible that she was worried bad posture might set > off a coughing fit-- perhaps she did not wish to appear ill or weak. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 01:47:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA96lBla010929 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 01:47:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA96l7aH013873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 01:47:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA96kVbh095479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:46:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA96kPX6049526; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:46:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA96kI7J049442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 23:46:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.64] (209-148-118-64.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.64]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA96kFXt018819 for ; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:46:17 -0800 Message-ID: <4552CEC0.7070506@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 22:46:24 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4552CEEB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 01:47:11 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 048ef310-7515-455e-8f3f-4f81d764b6d6 Status: RO Tuberculosis often spreads from the lungs to other parts of the body, or may first appear in other parts of the body. These include the spine and other bones, meninges of the brain and spinal cord, kidneys, female reproductive organs, abdonminal cavity, skin, intestines, adrenal glands, blood vessels, and miliary TB, which means you have it throughout the body. About a third of the world's population has latent TB, but if you live a healthy lifestyle, you have about a 90% chance of never developing active TB and of dying in old age of something else entirely. Pre-antobiotic treatments often consisted of doing things that we'd interpret as boosting the immune system--good food, lots of rest, and so on--and of making sure the patient breathed clean air. I think sometimes this managed to push the disease back into the latent stage. Now they give you cocktails of about five or six drugs (I think usually only two or three of them at once), some of which have unpleasant side effects. The drugs usually push the disease back into the latent stage in only a few weeks, but it takes anywhere from six months to two years to kill all the bacteria. The modern drug treatment for latent TB is about the same as for active TB. Usually they don't even bother treating latent TB except for high-risk patients. My husband and I have both had it almost all our lives, and so probably have other members of h-costume, whether they know it or not. Latent TB is not contagious, and there is no way to tell whether someone has it without modern tests. The bacillus just sits there, and you notice absolutely no effects whatever. Thankfully, the drug industry is trying to develop more effective drugs for it. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com monica spence wrote: > Eleonora had TB of the lungs. Contemporary commentators (Cellini, for > instance) talked and wrote about how she coughed and brought up blood. And > she was notoriously stubborn about accepting medical treatments. OTOH, She > daily drank a quart of mineral water from a thermal spring to help her. Not > that there was much they could do at the time... > > Monica > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lavolta Press > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:33 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset > > > TB is not just a lung disease; you can get tuberculosis of the spine. > > Fran > > monica spence wrote: > >>Eleonora di Toledo used these (probably) in the early yaers of her > > infection > >>with TB (Circa 1550). She insisted on being out in public with her husband >>Duke Cosimo I de Medici and she wore these under her gowns so her posture >>would stay erect. It is possible that she was worried bad posture might > > set > >>off a coughing fit-- perhaps she did not wish to appear ill or weak. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 07:11:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CAvSA027628 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:10:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9CAqQ8011381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:10:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9CABOV044954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:10:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CA7Vi016744; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:10:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay114-f17.bay114.hotmail.com [65.54.169.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9C9xhS016611 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:10:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from morvren@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 04:09:58 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.169.200 by by114fd.bay114.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:09:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [69.209.146.245] X-Originating-Email: [morvren@hotmail.com] X-Sender: morvren@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <45521BFD.90500@reddawn.net> From: "Maureen Conklin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:09:57 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 12:09:58.0951 (UTC) FILETIME=[FA00CB70:01C703F7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45531ACC.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:10:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6f5ea642-7bf1-4197-9e14-a8182d946e5c Status: RO "13 inches" I saw this figure (heh) quoted in the Guinness Book of World Records, FWIW, with the story of the Medici court. ================== ~ Twinkle, dammit! ~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 07:20:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CJxWU030030 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:19:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9CJqcN019014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:19:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9CGvVv046016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:16:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CGuju022673; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:16:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay114-f19.bay114.hotmail.com [65.54.169.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CGr9R022626 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:16:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from morvren@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 04:16:52 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.169.200 by by114fd.bay114.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:16:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [69.209.146.245] X-Originating-Email: [morvren@hotmail.com] X-Sender: morvren@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: From: "Maureen Conklin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:16:47 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 12:16:52.0803 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0AD9930:01C703F8] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45531CE8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:19:59 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 53dde9cb-1c1c-4398-9c17-774eafd29a0f Status: RO Forgot to add that there's a photo in there of a modern lady (the record holder) with a 13" waist. Her hips do, in fact, look like shelves. Eeww. ================== ~ Twinkle, dammit! ~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 07:43:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9ChU9o003076 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:43:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9ChNcH006152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:43:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9Cgnnu049291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:42:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CgkYh043560; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:42:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9CggHf043518 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:42:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.238.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.238] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Gi9Es-0002hd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:42:38 -0500 Message-ID: <45532FDE.3020001@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:40:46 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review References: <000f01c703ae$463ffd20$0300a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4553226B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:43:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8b644485-a72a-4f54-bee6-c30dcc280c17 Status: RO Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > I made a "Mary Tudor" dress using the book and was pleasantly surprised. > Nice french hood patterns. I respectfully disagree with the French hood patterns in The Tudor Tailor. Neither the fronts nor the falls/veils match the portrait and effigy record. There is no indication in 16th-century images of the attachment across the nape of the neck that The Tudor Tailor includes as part of the front of the hood (what TT calls the "brim"). This shape is good for modern theatrical purposes because it's stable in the absence of the anchoring hairstyle that would have been underneath historically. If you look at the excellent images from the 16th century that are included in the book, you'll see that the fall in the back of the hood is a flat tube hanging from the top of the head and that the back of the head is covered closely by something shaped more like a caul. The patterns, however, show a fall shaped like a sleeve, which creates a different effect entirely. Both "brim" and fall patterns are similar to the ones in Denise Dreher's _From the Neck Up_, an excellent theatrical millinery book from 1981. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 07:55:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Ct2m4005748 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:55:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9AbMMb011494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:37:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9Aaees030543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 03:36:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9AaZ1h036147; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 03:36:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.gorrie.wightman.ca [216.110.227.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9AaSg6036057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 03:36:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 9CBDC84AB7; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:36:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617DA849BA for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:36:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 05:36:20 -0500 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000301c703ea$e7eba840$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <200611081900.kA8J0QBI062665@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.gorrie X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA9AaSg6036057 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: OT - POD printers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455304E2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 05:37:27 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8f5875c0-cac8-4589-867e-0d7852e9a983 Status: RO While I have not as yet used this service, a very good colleague of mine has, and he is extremely pleased with the service. He uses, and I intend to use, Lulu.com. They also offer a distribution service, which is one of the true battles of marketing your book. My understanding of the service, and from feedback from my colleague (Paul Lima, http://www.paullima.com/ ), is that you only pay for the books you order. When a bookseller places an order through Lulu's service, the books are printed and shipped within two weeks. If you use PayPal as your payment service, you are paid once a month. You set the selling price of your book, and Lulu takes 20% commission, plus the printing cost, which you know up front. So, say your book costs $5.00 to print, and you decide on 100% mark-up (standard), then you set your retail at $10.00. Lulu tacks on 20%, so $2.00, and sells the book for $12.00. For every book you sell you get $5.00, your profit margin. Their distribution service gets you listed with the biggies like Barnes and Noble, and Amazon. There is no mention of Chapters/Indigo, but apparently getting listed with them is relatively easy. So, with those three alone, you're looking at distribution not only throughout North America, but the UK and parts of the EU. So far he says he's very pleased with the service, and let me tell you Paul's certainly not wet behind the ears, nor a push-over! Very savvy fellow. And it's based upon his experience that I intend to use this route. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 10:27:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FRRNO030352 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:27:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9FREAY024522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:27:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9FOcCK076161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:24:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FOXZD093648; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:24:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.200.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FOTJU093525 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:24:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006110915242401200nfpage>; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:24:24 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:24:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455348D2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:27:27 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d36e7cbb-5685-42c6-9146-54c6afa10302 Status: RO Has anyone come across any online sites that list colleges/universities that give degrees in fashion and/or MFAs in costume design or technology? I want to share them with my students. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 10:41:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FfU8s030800 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:41:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9FfIdD017759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:41:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9Fehxu078668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:40:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FefAL010644; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:40:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FebBF010499 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:40:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.ce2.28899ae (32914) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:40:28 -0500 (EST) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:40:28 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume design degrees X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45534C1E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:41:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 76f7d7f2-0364-41eb-b8be-47ed40ac954d Status: RO Has anyone come across any online sites that list colleges/universities that give degrees in fashion and/or MFAs in costume design or technology? I want to share them with my students. Sylrog The USITT home page has a link with most of the reliable colleges and universities in the area of costuming and costume design. Lots of good advice in choosing a school, too. Cheryl Odom, College of Santa Fe _http://www.usitt.org/costume/survey/_ (http://www.usitt.org/costume/survey/) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 10:45:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FjkEP030930 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:45:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9FjYW4005275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:45:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9Fj440079585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:45:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FixBu015687; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:45:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (root@marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.233]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FimL5015419 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:44:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sonja@louisiana.edu) Received: from pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu (root@pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.229]) by marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/ull-ucs-mx-host_1.9a) with ESMTP id kA9FidHY023959 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:44:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from louisiana.edu (skr5996@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/ull-ucs-client_1.7) with ESMTP id kA9Fic03015713 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:44:38 -0600 (CST) From: "Sonja" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:44:38 -0600 Message-Id: <20061109154019.M95913@louisiana.edu> In-Reply-To: <200611090646.kA96kPkn049532@net.indra.com> References: <200611090646.kA96kPkn049532@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: OpenWebMail 2.52 20060831 X-OriginatingIP: 130.70.141.184 (skr5996) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.5, clamav-milter version 0.88.5 on marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] iron corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45534D1E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:45:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6e763bc9-7405-47e3-be68-ac1fa74fdfd5 Status: RO Various iron corset resources; some you may know about already.  Thought it wouldn't hurt to give.  Just ignore this if it does help.  Museum of Man at San Diego's Balboa Park could help. "region's only museum devoted to anthropology-as well as arts, culture and scientific achievements"  http://www.museumofman.org/    The Met www.metmuseum.org had an exhibition in 2001-02 titled Extreme Beauty: The Body Transformed which listed a rare 16th c iron corset.  The Museum at FIT (Fashion Institute of Technology) www.fitnyc.edu   Craft Culture has a review on United Notions http://www.craftculture.org/review/speck3.htm   Bit of history: http://www.fashion-era.com/early_corsetry.htm#16th_Century_Iron_Corsets   Contacting these places could result in a good lead.  Remember to ask the right questions. > Subject: [h-cost] iron corset > > I'm trying to find information on the iron corsets that show up in museum > collections and shocking costume- or corset-history websites.   Specifically, I'm trying to track down sources for some of the information that is bandied about (without references) online.  _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 11:25:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9GPG48032347 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:25:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9GPA8J025860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:25:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9GN5MV087706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:23:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9GN0vZ059608; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.192.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9GMuI6059449 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:22:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20061109162250m1100nb4sle>; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:22:50 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <203e2501edf42e472756d327e10a290c@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume design degrees Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:22:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45535666.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:25:16 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9ba3a3df-fe8a-407b-983b-465fcd5a9c80 Status: RO Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten about that. On Nov 9, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone come across any online sites that list colleges/universities > that give degrees in fashion and/or MFAs in costume design or > technology? I want to share them with my students. > > Sylrog > > The USITT home page has a link with most of the reliable colleges and > universities in the area of costuming and costume design. Lots of > good advice in > choosing a school, too. > > Cheryl Odom, College of Santa Fe > > _http://www.usitt.org/costume/survey/_ > (http://www.usitt.org/costume/survey/) > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 11:37:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9GbHVO000431 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:37:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9Gb4vg000980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:37:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9FaA4O078082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Fa6Ii005822; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:36:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jaguar.campus.muc.prv (webmail.muc.edu [199.18.39.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9FZwQU005582 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:36:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from RICKARPA@muc.edu) Received: from lynx.campus.muc.prv ([172.16.100.248]) by jaguar.campus.muc.prv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:39:26 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:39:24 -0500 Message-ID: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FD883@lynx.campus.muc.prv> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion thread-index: AccEFChecEk0QErITvOiMgKswb670AAAIqeg From: "Rickard, Patty " To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 15:39:26.0423 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CCCD670:01C70415] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA9FZwQU005582 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45535930.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 11:37:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9677aad3-e879-4111-bd5f-5dbd04b6f5e2 Status: RO I'm sorry I don't have a site list, but Kent State does have a good department of fashion. Patty -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 10:24 AM To: Historical Costume Cc: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion Has anyone come across any online sites that list colleges/universities that give degrees in fashion and/or MFAs in costume design or technology? I want to share them with my students. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 13:16:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9IG9eq003909 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:16:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9IG5S9022281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:16:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9ID3pc018394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9ICX2O088946; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:12:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9ICDQw088554 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:12:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kA9IC6P01221 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:12:06 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: webmail02.unl.edu: nobody set sender to 00217146@bigred.unl.edu using -f To: Historical Costume Subject: re: [h-cost] iron corset Message-ID: <1163095926.45536f765fa8b@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:12:06 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <1163034890.4552810aa4d76@webmail.netspace.net.au> In-Reply-To: <1163034890.4552810aa4d76@webmail.netspace.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45537065.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:16:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8e26e2d4-5a0f-49a4-9281-c94d6b2b3d9e Status: RO > There are various kinds of these things around. Of the most common pics I've > seen are ones that are considered to be ceremonial or decorative wear -- not for > everyday use or combat, > > -C. Speaking of decorative wear, another arguement given on these unreferenced sites is that these are corset *covers*--has anybody seen illustrations of anything like this being worn on the outside of clothing? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 13:35:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9IZ1Fs004579 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:35:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9IYvJm017871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:35:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9ISq9O021330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:28:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9IS3KT007365; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:28:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9IRnMf006800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:27:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.35] (209-148-118-35.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.35]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA9IRlwS000771 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:27:48 -0800 Message-ID: <4553732A.6040601@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 10:27:54 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset References: <1163034890.4552810aa4d76@webmail.netspace.net.au> <1163095926.45536f765fa8b@webmail02.unl.edu> In-Reply-To: <1163095926.45536f765fa8b@webmail02.unl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455374D1.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 13:35:01 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1a8fa026-a32c-4fef-af88-d1418b23060e Status: RO For theatrical performances, perhaps? Fran 00217146@bigred.unl.edu wrote: > > Speaking of decorative wear, another arguement given on these unreferenced sites > is that these are corset *covers*--has anybody seen illustrations of anything > like this being worn on the outside of clothing? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 15:19:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KJQLI007710 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:19:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9KJNrQ028322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:19:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9KHRgm041586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:17:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KH3pZ033552; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:17:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jaguar.campus.muc.prv (jaguar.muc.edu [199.18.39.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Erqwu063005 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 07:53:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from RICKARPA@muc.edu) Received: from lynx.campus.muc.prv ([172.16.100.248]) by jaguar.campus.muc.prv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:57:21 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:57:19 -0500 Message-ID: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FD834@lynx.campus.muc.prv> In-Reply-To: <003201c703a1$1c5be170$6400a8c0@momlaptop> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure thread-index: AccDocpX3zqd1/iOQ/KmXSLPeiqTyQAbUExg From: "Rickard, Patty " To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 14:57:21.0298 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BB55720:01C7040F] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA9Erqwu063005 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45538D4B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:19:26 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6c8bc306-7c36-4e4b-a2b3-c368e6347dd6 Status: RO When I was 14 (5'2", 90 some pounds) my waist - sucked in, un-corseted was 16" (that was in the days when small waists were a big item) Patty -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:48 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Luann, I understand what you mean. My grand-daughter is thin like yours and one year old. She has food allergies. She is very low in the percentile on the growth chart. I just measured her and she has a 19" waist. I have always thought the adult under 20" waist was a crock. If you look at children's pattern sizes, the waist sizes are larger than 19". http://www.sewingpatterns.com/simplicity-charts2.html#babies My DIL said her waist was 20" before having children and was a size 0. She is very petite built. When I was a teenager and very thin, I had a 24" waist. I started sewing with patterns in third grade and do not recall my waist smaller. The Valentine Museum has a lot of corsets in their collection and the smallest waist is one corset at 20". OTOH, The Corset book I mentioned has a chapter that about small waists in the late 1700s or early 1800s. The author took quotes from Parisian magazines/newspapers of young ladies writing the newspapers about their small waist sizes. I took the chapter with a big grain of salt. The author only does this in that one chapter. His style of writing changes completely in this chapter. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 15:22:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KMvmg007797 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:22:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9KMrGS031739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:22:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9KJkOx041988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:19:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KJeYe036483; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:19:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpout.eastlink.ca (smtpout.eastlink.ca [24.222.0.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KJSPr036132 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:19:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sjpaterson@tru.eastlink.ca) Received: from ip02.eastlink.ca ([24.222.10.10]) by mta01.eastlink.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.03 (built Sep 22 2005)) with ESMTP id <0J8H00MQQCHI2H60@mta01.eastlink.ca> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:20:06 -0400 (AST) Received: from blk-137-68-3.eastlink.ca (HELO THIRDFLOOR) ([24.137.68.3]) by ip02.eastlink.ca with SMTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:12:19 -0400 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:12:13 -0400 From: SPaterson Subject: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion To: Historical Costume Message-id: <001301c7043b$5a251630$6401a8c0@THIRDFLOOR> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAE4bU0UYiUQD/2dsb2JhbAA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.09,407,1157338800"; d="scan'208"; a="985997:sNHT9173379789" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0647-0, 11/09/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45538E1D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:22:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: db5c651f-8c2c-49c4-8d14-e6ae9bd1832d Status: RO http://theatre.dal.ca/Academics/Costume_Studies.php Dalhousie Costume Studies Program, Halifax, Nova Scotia Sarah Paterson - alumnus > ----- Original Message ----- > >> Has anyone come across any online sites that list colleges/universities >> that give degrees in fashion and/or MFAs in costume design or >> technology? I want to share them with my students. >> >> Sylrog >> > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 15:32:45 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KWjY8008031 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:32:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9KWfEI020386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:32:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9KV5mN044222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:31:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KV1QA049248; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:31:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KUtDq049119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:30:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.35] (209-148-118-35.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.35]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA9KUr59009346 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:30:54 -0800 Message-ID: <45539005.3000506@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:31:01 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: OT - POD printers References: <000301c703ea$e7eba840$6400a8c0@MAIN> In-Reply-To: <000301c703ea$e7eba840$6400a8c0@MAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45539069.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:32:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f41ead9f-4d77-4657-b564-8e5b6108e0ab Status: RO If you just want to get something out there with your name on it, rather than publish commercially (in terms of quality, quantity, distribution, and profit), Lulu.com is fine. I make a living from my business, so services such as Lulu.com are not an option. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com If you just want to get something out there cheap Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > While I have not as yet used this service, a very good colleague of > mine has, and he is extremely pleased with the service. He uses, and I > intend to use, Lulu.com. They also offer a distribution service, which is > one of the true battles of marketing your book. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 15:45:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Kjk0F008401 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:45:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9KjgiS002663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:45:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9Kfwm1046618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:41:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KfrFI060682; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KfiNr060413 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:41:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9E56DAOXS9SB73K@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:40:50 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9E57C4BXE9TGDT7@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:41:37 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:41:27 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres To: Historical Costume Message-id: <45539277.6080300@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45539376.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:45:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 960bfbf6-4117-4254-bede-bc249227f6de Status: RO Anyone know of any online shops where I can buy hammered satin? -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 15:54:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Ks6nU008644 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:54:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9Ks21n030580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:54:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9KpjZc048223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:51:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9KlJED066605; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:47:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-ds1.phx.gbl [65.54.161.94] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Kl5kH066368 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:47:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from luann_mason@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:47:02 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.32.249.108 by BAY106-DAV22.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:47:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.32.249.108] X-Originating-Email: [luann_mason@msn.com] X-Sender: luann_mason@msn.com From: "LuAnn Mason" To: "Historical Costume" References: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FD834@lynx.campus.muc.prv> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:45:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:45:46 -0800 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 20:47:02.0536 (UTC) FILETIME=[35803080:01C70440] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4553956A.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:54:06 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 347a3397-456f-4576-8c4a-ad875caeac44 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA9Ks6nU008644 Status: RO Wow. That's a smaller circumference than a roll of toilet paper. LuAnn ----- Original Message ----- From: Rickard, Patty To: Historical Costume Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure When I was 14 (5'2", 90 some pounds) my waist - sucked in, un-corseted was 16" (that was in the days when small waists were a big item) Patty -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:48 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Luann, I understand what you mean. My grand-daughter is thin like yours and one year old. She has food allergies. She is very low in the percentile on the growth chart. I just measured her and she has a 19" waist. I have always thought the adult under 20" waist was a crock. If you look at children's pattern sizes, the waist sizes are larger than 19". http://www.sewingpatterns.com/simplicity-charts2.html#babies My DIL said her waist was 20" before having children and was a size 0. She is very petite built. When I was a teenager and very thin, I had a 24" waist. I started sewing with patterns in third grade and do not recall my waist smaller. The Valentine Museum has a lot of corsets in their collection and the smallest waist is one corset at 20". OTOH, The Corset book I mentioned has a chapter that about small waists in the late 1700s or early 1800s. The author took quotes from Parisian magazines/newspapers of young ladies writing the newspapers about their small waist sizes. I took the chapter with a big grain of salt. The author only does this in that one chapter. His style of writing changes completely in this chapter. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 16:02:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9L2Mtk008899 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:02:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9L2I5M020212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:02:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9L04G4049519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:00:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Kxm52080916; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:59:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jaguar.campus.muc.prv (jaguar.muc.edu [199.18.39.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Kxb1Z080608 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:59:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from RICKARPA@muc.edu) Received: from lynx.campus.muc.prv ([172.16.100.248]) by jaguar.campus.muc.prv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:03:06 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:03:01 -0500 Message-ID: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FDA02@lynx.campus.muc.prv> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure thread-index: AccEQbH7mU/eNYzYQTSJ/STWqbYKOAAAKyhg From: "Rickard, Patty " To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 21:03:06.0188 (UTC) FILETIME=[73E1D0C0:01C70442] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA9Kxb1Z080608 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4553975A.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:02:22 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 373897a6-3856-4064-8ffc-19d08d72d3f7 Status: RO If you squish it sideways it looks more believable. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of LuAnn Mason Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 3:46 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Wow. That's a smaller circumference than a roll of toilet paper. LuAnn ----- Original Message ----- From: Rickard, Patty To: Historical Costume Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure When I was 14 (5'2", 90 some pounds) my waist - sucked in, un-corseted was 16" (that was in the days when small waists were a big item) Patty -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:48 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Luann, I understand what you mean. My grand-daughter is thin like yours and one year old. She has food allergies. She is very low in the percentile on the growth chart. I just measured her and she has a 19" waist. I have always thought the adult under 20" waist was a crock. If you look at children's pattern sizes, the waist sizes are larger than 19". http://www.sewingpatterns.com/simplicity-charts2.html#babies My DIL said her waist was 20" before having children and was a size 0. She is very petite built. When I was a teenager and very thin, I had a 24" waist. I started sewing with patterns in third grade and do not recall my waist smaller. The Valentine Museum has a lot of corsets in their collection and the smallest waist is one corset at 20". OTOH, The Corset book I mentioned has a chapter that about small waists in the late 1700s or early 1800s. The author took quotes from Parisian magazines/newspapers of young ladies writing the newspapers about their small waist sizes. I took the chapter with a big grain of salt. The author only does this in that one chapter. His style of writing changes completely in this chapter. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 16:15:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LFWpg009383 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:15:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9LFSgK019908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:15:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9LDCFt051779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:13:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LD9pF095770; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:13:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LD0It095563 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep44.mail.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061109211256.FVXP14489.fep35.mail.dk@fep44.mail.dk> for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:12:56 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.32]) by fep44.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061109211256.JGQ11319.fep44.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:12:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c70443$d42eb820$206ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <45539277.6080300@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:12:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep44.mail.dk from [80.164.110.32] at Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:12:52 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45539A70.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:15:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: da646f4d-a578-4188-9e36-b7075a0c9d63 Status: RO Hammered satin? could you explain what that is? Is it simple as, a satin wich has gone trough a hammer prosses? What does it look like? Sorry for all those stupid questions, i have never heard that name before......... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adele de Maisieres" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 9:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum > Anyone know of any online shops where I can buy hammered satin? > > -- > Adele de Maisieres > > ----------------------------- > Habeo metrum - musicamque, > hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? > -Georgeus Gershwinus > ----------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 16:35:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LZ5g0009924 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:35:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9LZ1jB007151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:35:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9LVi9Z055728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:32:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LPcY8009532; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:25:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LPGVk009032 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:25:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12064 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:09:29 -0600 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:09:29 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45539F05.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:35:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fc06a0ff-e3e2-471c-813b-d11ad3b418d6 Status: RO On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, LuAnn Mason wrote: > Wow. That's a smaller circumference than a roll of toilet paper. You must use different paper than I do! You got me curious and I measured a fresh roll -- 13.25 inches around. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 16:35:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LZDHT009933 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:35:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9LZ8KA022439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:35:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9LVWYh055689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:31:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LVOqN016171; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:31:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LVISq015977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:31:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:27560 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GiHUU-0005n4-Rt for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:31:20 -0600 Message-ID: <002301c70446$6121dee0$cf00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <45539277.6080300@paradise.net.nz> <001801c70443$d42eb820$206ea450@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:31:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45539F0C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:35:13 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9df775c1-c5b8-4492-add2-1ed51108a7dc Status: RO Are you looking for 100% silk, or will man-made fibers/blends do? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 16:38:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LckFN010008 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:38:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9Lchix011122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:38:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9LZinu056366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:35:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LZbxe020620; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:35:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LYv6N019862 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:35:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9E71CM5C09SB1K6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:34:04 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9E72BJZY49TFYVM@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:34:51 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:34:39 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum In-reply-to: <001801c70443$d42eb820$206ea450@CPQ21932199711> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <45539EEF.4050309@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <45539277.6080300@paradise.net.nz> <001801c70443$d42eb820$206ea450@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45539FE3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:38:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d7fa0c94-075b-4470-be6b-3d00a6e83410 Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hammered satin? > could you explain what that is? Is it simple as, a satin wich has gone > trough a hammer prosses? > What does it look like? > > Sorry for all those stupid questions, i have never heard that name > before......... I have no idea how it's produced, but it has a slightly ripply surface texture that looks a but like hammered metal. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 16:39:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LdAOd010030 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:39:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9Ld4A0015502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:39:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9LbY4U056707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:37:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LbT1Y022900; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:37:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jaguar.campus.muc.prv (webmail.muc.edu [199.18.39.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LbN3f022677 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:37:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from RICKARPA@muc.edu) Received: from lynx.campus.muc.prv ([172.16.100.248]) by jaguar.campus.muc.prv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:40:51 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:40:47 -0500 Message-ID: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FDA34@lynx.campus.muc.prv> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure thread-index: AccER2cAeKKHANEhQfCMJZZqJlEBzAAADemw From: "Rickard, Patty " To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 21:40:51.0766 (UTC) FILETIME=[BA459560:01C70447] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kA9LbN3f022677 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45539FF8.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:39:10 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ca65a672-fa2b-4ad2-b75b-886e5334c1a2 Status: RO I got about 14. Patty -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 4:09 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, LuAnn Mason wrote: > Wow. That's a smaller circumference than a roll of toilet paper. You must use different paper than I do! You got me curious and I measured a fresh roll -- 13.25 inches around. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 16:42:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Lgpnv010108 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:42:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9Lgm00029959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:42:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9LbTAL056676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:37:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LbNan022792; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:37:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9LbFJJ022611 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:37:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9E748ZGMO9SB1K6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:36:24 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9E757Z9L29TG0G8@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:37:11 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:37:00 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum In-reply-to: <002301c70446$6121dee0$cf00a8c0@compaqub> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <45539F7C.7010602@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <45539277.6080300@paradise.net.nz> <001801c70443$d42eb820$206ea450@CPQ21932199711> <002301c70446$6121dee0$cf00a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4553A0D8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:42:51 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d2192a92-ff6a-43b8-a3d0-21062e508cd3 Status: RO E House wrote: > Are you looking for 100% silk, or will man-made fibers/blends do? > Man-made is absolutely fine. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 17:20:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MKpEn011325 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:20:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9MKl6L019545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:20:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9MFDWg062434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:15:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MF7mw065416; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:15:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav21.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MEwdB065282 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from luann_mason@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:14:57 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.32.249.108 by BAY106-DAV21.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:14:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.32.249.108] X-Originating-Email: [luann_mason@msn.com] X-Sender: luann_mason@msn.com From: "LuAnn Mason" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:15:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:15:52 -0800 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2006 22:14:57.0851 (UTC) FILETIME=[7DD560B0:01C7044C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4553A9BF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:20:51 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 179c3b86-a166-4ead-b085-9e8b02ab6ce6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kA9MKpEn011325 Status: RO Mine's 17.25. LuAnn ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, LuAnn Mason wrote: > Wow. That's a smaller circumference than a roll of toilet paper. You must use different paper than I do! You got me curious and I measured a fresh roll -- 13.25 inches around. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 17:32:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MWUuR011775 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:32:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9MWQiu029665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:32:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9MUUvQ064786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:30:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MPj1a076017; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MPLuV075565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:25:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:27614 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GiIKp-000590-JB for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:25:24 -0600 Message-ID: <003101c7044d$eed66790$cf00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FDA34@lynx.campus.muc.prv> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:25:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4553AC7A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:32:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6da8a573-ba6a-4f12-94ca-cb8f55ff5a18 Status: RO One thing to keep in mind when comparing tiny waist measurements to young girls is the effects of puberty on baby fat. The waist is relatively much larger in younger girls, and this sometimes translates into larger actual waist measurements before puberty; a 4'11" 10 year old will have dramatically different proportions from a 4'11" 20 year old. Fat distribution changes with changes in hormones, on both sides--most post-menopausal women tend to be relatively thicker around the waist, not becuase of diet or lack of exercise, but simply because of how their bodies choose to distribute fat. One of my younger clients, who was 12 last I measured her, was tall and skinny (~100 lbs, and already worried about dieting, poor thing) but had a relatively large 26" waist, with a bust around 31". I saw her recently at about 14, after her visit from the puberty fairy but before any noticeable increase in height/weight, and though I didn't measure her, I could see that her waist was smaller. The same thing happened to me; my weight and height (I got tall young) changed very little, but my waist got smaller when my bust and hips got bigger. I'm not saying that's universal or anything, but the general principle generally holds. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 17:38:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9Mbvpg011969 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:38:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9MbnFk030292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:37:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9MWGJp065116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:32:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MWCbb083048; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:32:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9MW7Q4082880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:32:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:27944 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GiIRN-00063B-7z for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:32:09 -0600 Message-ID: <003501c7044e$e0972330$cf00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <45539277.6080300@paradise.net.nz><001801c70443$d42eb820$206ea450@CPQ21932199711><002301c70446$6121dee0$cf00a8c0@compaqub> <45539F7C.7010602@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:31:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4553ADBD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:37:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2d4dde92-d14b-4b97-abc2-afb1318ad1d4 Status: RO Here are a few places that have it in poly: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=X065 http://dollarfabric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=3575 http://www.dazian.com/cgi-bin/page.pl?action=show_style&style_id=321&group_id=161&cat_id=44 -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 18:09:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9N9180013080 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 18:09:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9N8vD2016546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 18:09:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9N7USJ070525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:07:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9N7OCY018435; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:07:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9N7Ilf018291 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:07:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0J8H00DA2K7ZNDS0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:07:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:07:07 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion In-reply-to: <001301c7043b$5a251630$6401a8c0@THIRDFLOOR> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4553B509.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:09:01 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6de5164f-1a5c-4920-a207-50fa916a67bc Status: RO Seton Hill University in Greensburg PA (near Pittsburgh) has a terriffic Theatre program, http://www.setonhill.edu/o/index.cfm?PID=21&T1=1&T2=5&T3=0 the Art Institute of New York City, where I teach has a GREAT fashion program! http://www.artinstitutes.edu/newyork/programdegrees.asp?pid=6&dtid=7 Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of SPaterson Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 3:12 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion http://theatre.dal.ca/Academics/Costume_Studies.php Dalhousie Costume Studies Program, Halifax, Nova Scotia Sarah Paterson - alumnus > ----- Original Message ----- > >> Has anyone come across any online sites that list colleges/universities >> that give degrees in fashion and/or MFAs in costume design or >> technology? I want to share them with my students. >> >> Sylrog >> > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 18:16:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9NG9TU013268 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 18:16:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kA9NG3pu000840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 18:16:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kA9NDkmn071750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9NDftZ024534; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:13:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kA9NDYP5024398 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:13:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9EAHF4UPC9SB1K6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:12:32 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9EAIE7KVO9TFBD6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:13:19 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:13:08 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum In-reply-to: <003501c7044e$e0972330$cf00a8c0@compaqub> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4553B604.70807@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <45539277.6080300@paradise.net.nz> <001801c70443$d42eb820$206ea450@CPQ21932199711> <002301c70446$6121dee0$cf00a8c0@compaqub> <45539F7C.7010602@paradise.net.nz> <003501c7044e$e0972330$cf00a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4553B6B3.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:16:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 492053cc-f9f7-4f7a-ac84-da55620b802c Status: RO E House wrote: > Here are a few places that have it in poly: > http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=X065 > http://dollarfabric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=3575 > > http://www.dazian.com/cgi-bin/page.pl?action=show_style&style_id=321&group_id=161&cat_id=44 > Thanks for that. I'm surprised by how limited the range of colours is. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 20:01:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA1194V015067 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:01:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA116Pb016096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:01:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA0xXiG090932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:59:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA0xQdj023599; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:59:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s18.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s18.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA0xNta023517 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:59:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.40]) by bay0-omc2-s18.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:59:18 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 16:59:17 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.38.200 by by116fd.bay116.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:59:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com In-Reply-To: <4552819D.2050002@reddawn.net> From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:59:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2006 00:59:17.0985 (UTC) FILETIME=[72EE6D10:01C70463] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4553CF52.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:01:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a9458e9e-142d-4ac7-a063-562748701946 Status: RO It just happens to be Guiness World Record Day...they showed a spot on the local news which showed the current world record holders waist has expanded from 15 to 20! http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/extreme_bodies/smallest_waist_on_a_living_person.aspx Hmmmm Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 21:27:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA2R7sK017527 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:27:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA2R4qA027007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:27:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA2Jxo7003649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:19:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA2JrCd091482; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:19:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp4.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAA2Jk2N091349 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:19:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 11125 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2006 18:16:01 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 11068, pid: 11100, t: 7.5850s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp4 with SMTP; 9 Nov 2006 18:15:53 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061109181808.022c0008@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:19:20 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" In-Reply-To: References: <4552819D.2050002@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp4.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4553E378.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:27:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c73d7377-f909-4333-ba66-8beaa7c6e395 Status: RO At 04:59 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote: >It just happens to be Guiness World Record Day...they showed a spot >on the local news which showed the current world record holders >waist has expanded from 15 to 20! > > >http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/extreme_bodies/smallest_waist_on_a_living_person.aspx > >Hmmmm > >Sg I must say I don't find her wasp-waist to be particularly attractive. She looks like she might break in two in a high wind. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 21:30:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA2UBAA017602 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:30:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA2U7g4005568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:30:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA2S9S4005451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:28:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA2S8fB099276; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:28:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA2S4WX099231 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:28:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A2305E2B0376; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:21:36 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 18:28:09 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c7046f$dce3b520$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <45532FDE.3020001@faucet.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4553E42F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:30:11 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 88021da4-b73e-4db2-83b6-46b8f6be50fe Status: RO I don't know about the authenticity aspect, I meant the pattern came out nicely, fit well, looked good. Sorry. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:41 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > I made a "Mary Tudor" dress using the book and was pleasantly surprised. > Nice french hood patterns. I respectfully disagree with the French hood patterns in The Tudor Tailor. Neither the fronts nor the falls/veils match the portrait and effigy record. There is no indication in 16th-century images of the attachment across the nape of the neck that The Tudor Tailor includes as part of the front of the hood (what TT calls the "brim"). This shape is good for modern theatrical purposes because it's stable in the absence of the anchoring hairstyle that would have been underneath historically. If you look at the excellent images from the 16th century that are included in the book, you'll see that the fall in the back of the hood is a flat tube hanging from the top of the head and that the back of the head is covered closely by something shaped more like a caul. The patterns, however, show a fall shaped like a sleeve, which creates a different effect entirely. Both "brim" and fall patterns are similar to the ones in Denise Dreher's _From the Neck Up_, an excellent theatrical millinery book from 1981. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 21:53:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA2rDuN018085 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:53:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA2r76n023633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:53:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA2qiiR012511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:52:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA2qhaN020088; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:52:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.wightman.on.ca (server01.clifford.wightman.ca [216.110.227.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA2qbu6020004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:52:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lgsteph@wightman.ca) Received: by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix, from userid 99) id 51CF0D464D; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:52:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAIN (dsl-v45-216-110-230-37.wightman.ca [216.110.230.37]) by mail.wightman.on.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664EED435A for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:52:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Five Rivers Chapmanry" To: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:52:35 -0500 Organization: Five Rivers Message-ID: <000201c70473$48ee5ec0$6400a8c0@MAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <200611092232.kA9MWOIe083268@net.indra.com> Importance: Normal X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on server01.clifford X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-2.82, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100 autolearn=disabled version=3.0.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAA2qbu6020004 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: OT - POD printers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4553E993.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:53:13 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ba98f1b7-8153-4cf3-8533-0f57d487c9f8 Status: RO Hi, Fran, I understand you make your living through your excellent publications. However, I'm afraid I'm a bit confused about: >If you just want to get something out there with your name on it, rather >than publish commercially (in terms of quality, quantity, distribution, >and profit), Lulu.com is fine. Quality, well, my understanding through my contact is that the quality is very good, because with Lulu you can choose exactly what type of book you wish. All the parameters are listed on their website. Quantity: you're able to print 1, 100, 1000 or however many copies you wish. Like all printers, the cost of printing reduces the more copies you choose to print. Equally, if you purchase the distribution contact, they print the extra 25 copies Amazon orders; that is, they print copies as orders come in, and turn around is 2 weeks. Distribution: Lulu offers an excellent distribution contract. You need to read it, I think, if you haven't already, and they offer the ability to sell directly from their store as well. Again, my associate is earning very respectable earnings since dealing with Lulu. I am sure there are quite a few PODs which offer inexpensive and low quality printing. It would seem Lulu is not one of them. But, again, I am basing my statements upon my colleague's experience. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 info@5rivers.org - www.5rivers.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 22:24:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA3O0Gm018580 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:24:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA3Npgf011495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:23:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA3Lbv9017945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:21:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA3LWdY044900; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:21:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA3LRbj044816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:21:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from [209.148.118.75] (209-148-118-75.dial.dynamic.sonic.net [209.148.118.75]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.8.Beta0-Sonic/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kAA3LMPW006272 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:21:23 -0800 Message-ID: <4553F03A.8040900@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:21:30 -0800 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: OT - POD printers References: <000201c70473$48ee5ec0$6400a8c0@MAIN> In-Reply-To: <000201c70473$48ee5ec0$6400a8c0@MAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4553F0C7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:24:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: def0e833-0ab8-4385-b887-35d9bc328497 Status: RO Hi, Lorine, It's not that I don't know anything about Lulu.com, or the other POD publishers. Or that I would never publish POD. I might consider it IF the print quality and price were equal to that of offset (requiring the invention and adoption of new equipment, which some of the manufacturers are striving to improve), and if the PO marketing image in the industry was better. It's very seductive to new publishers to believe that they can publish a book without researching the industry and without learning new skills, print any number of high-quality copies for hardly any money, pay nothing for warehousing, market with no work, and make tons of money in the process. If all the glowing promises some POD sites and book-marketing gurus make were true, EVERYONE, from the megapublishers on down, would POD publish and sell only on Amazon.com and BarnesandNoble.com. As things are, the industry as a whole considers these unsuccessful and/or hobbyist strategies, and with some reason. Yes, some POD books do make it in the market. Maybe your book will be one of them. I'm not going to play dueling authorities with your marketing guru. It's your money and your project. Best, Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Five Rivers Chapmanry wrote: > Hi, Fran, > > I understand you make your living through your excellent > publications. However, I'm afraid I'm a bit confused about: > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 22:30:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA3UsKe018791 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:30:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA3UoM9002340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:30:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA3Rq2n019109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:27:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA3Rp4O049719; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:27:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA3RksY049620 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c22.912b279 (52374) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:27:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from WEBMAIL-RA02 (webmail-ra02.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.141]) by ciaaol-m02.mx.aol.com (v114.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM028-cc964553f1ab6a; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:27:39 -0500 References: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FDA34@lynx.campus.muc.prv> <003101c7044d$eed66790$cf00a8c0@compaqub> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Catherine's waist measure Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:27:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: <003101c7044d$eed66790$cf00a8c0@compaqub> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: chindora@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 21462 Received: from 66.177.236.38 by WEBMAIL-RA02.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.141) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:27:39 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8D28F4EFFC432-F64-344F@WEBMAIL-RA02.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.141 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4553F26A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:30:54 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2c4e9fb8-9d8f-4c8c-a2b7-732ce1fb5e75 Status: RO Whatever. Either way, I think it is fairly apparent that none of us has ever seen any portraits of the oft painted Catherine with hips that look like shelves and a disproportionaly small waist. Or are there some kinky paintings of her out there somewhere that I have somehow managed to miss in my scholarly studies? My opinion, which is only that, my opinion, is that based on the evidence we have it is highly unlikely that her waist was actually only 13 inches in circumference. I am throwing my opinion in the ring with the rest of us who believe that the 13" waist measurement for her was conjecture by an ill informed person or some romanticized Victorian thought. If we had paintings of her that showed her with a silhouhette of a tightly corset trained woman who had been practicing waist training like some fetishists do, then I might be able to approach it a little differently. Ha, how many kids did she have? I don't know about any of the rest of you guys, but I have had 5, and I guarantee you that it is highly unlikely that she had 5 kids and wound up with a 15 inch waist, much less a 13 inch waist. Hey, maybe she had one of those iron corsets after all... There. Two burning questions answered. j/k ;-) ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 9 23:16:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA4GLgW019659 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:16:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA4GHhr010742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:16:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA4EBPg027382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:14:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA4E5CK084300; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:14:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA4E0qw084221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:14:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-240-248-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.240.248]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAA4Dvqc016331 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:13:59 +1100 Message-ID: <000d01c7047e$a4342660$f8f0f4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c7046f$dce3b520$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:13:55 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4553FD11.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:16:21 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4755da39-1cfe-4f81-8988-1adb9a400d53 Status: RO > If you look at the excellent images from the 16th century that are > included in the book, you'll see that the fall in the back of the hood > is a flat tube hanging from the top of the head and that the back of the > head is covered closely by something shaped more like a caul. The > patterns, however, show a fall shaped like a sleeve, which creates a > different effect entirely. > The Fall/veil is shaped like a sleeve because it's attached at the top of the shaped crescent (this is an interpretation that I support because all the images I've seen show a band of black at the top edge of the stiffened crescent and side views like this http://www.bergercollection.org/artwork_detail.php?i=37 also show the veil attached at the top of the crescent piece) and, like a sleeve, in order for it to fit into a vertical circle at the top and a horizontal circle at the bottom the top has to be curved. From memory the pattern does include a shaped brim for a caul to wear underneath, the only thing that's not directly indicated on the pattern is the size of the 'bag' part of the caul, which you could just transfer from the working class caul patterns. I haven't tried it yet and I'm somewhat disappointed that they don't have any indication of which hood fits which decade, as the diagrams aren't enough info for me to work it out without trying a mock-up. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 00:29:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5TcZZ021339 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:29:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA5TYsu023151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:29:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA5Npos034786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5NjQW037179; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:23:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5Ngfo037140 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:23:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1GiOrc3PRk-0003sw; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:23:41 -0500 Message-ID: <004e01c70488$60a30bf0$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:23:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45540E3E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:29:38 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9045a3ff-b7e3-4fba-95e6-f3a3eecfed17 Status: RO I teach fashion merchandising (BA) and fashion design (BFA) students at Virginia Commonwealth University. http://www.pubinfo.vcu.edu/artweb/fashion/ They also have an undergraduate and MFA in costume design in the theater dept. I took several undergraduate classes with the masters students. http://www.pubinfo.vcu.edu/artweb/theatre/ Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 00:32:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5W8Ot021468 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:32:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA5W4EA024532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA5VYjl035639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:31:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5VTja042637; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:31:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5VMmJ042540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:31:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAA6TfFB029119 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 01:29:42 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:36:21 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611100036.21638.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAA5VMmJ042540 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find =?utf-8?b?wqAt?= =?utf-8?q?_The?= textiles) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45540ED4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:32:08 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 08a6fc65-6d86-4402-93c2-07ff212aa3c9 Status: RO In case any of you are interested in purchasing the new book analyzing the Oseberg textiles, I just received the following e-mail. I haven't decided how I'm going to respond yet. Dear Cathy, It is our understanding that you are interested in the following book > Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find  - The textiles) by Arne > Emil Christensen and Margareta Nockert, Kulturhistorisk Museum (May 6th > 2006), Universitetet i Oslo. 24 x 36 cm. 408pp. ISBN 82-8984-024-9. > > Fred Struthers sent your information along as he would like us to process this > order for you. > > The cost would be $250.00. Please confirm that you are indeed interested in > this publication. > > Also please take a look at our website and let us know if you are interested > in other books > > www.nordicartbooks.com > Best Wishes for a Happy Holiday Season, Lena Torslow Hansen, Owner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ART CONSULTING: SCANDINAVIA Books on Art & Architecture 3650 Cross Creek Road Malibu, CA 90265-4946 TEL (310) 456-8762 FAX (310) 456-5714 www.nordicartbooks.com -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 00:48:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5m64Y022281 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:48:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAA5m2RE002275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:48:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAA5laSm037964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:47:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5lY8P054339; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:47:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAA5lUWT054292 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:47:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13194 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:31:52 -0600 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:31:52 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find =?utf-8?b?wqAt?= =?utf-8?q?_The?= textiles) In-Reply-To: <200611100036.21638.cathy@thyrsus.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAA5lUWT054292 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45541292.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:48:06 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 68f744ab-8a30-4edf-bc24-dc50caa72ef8 Status: RO On Fri, 10 Nov 2006, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > In case any of you are interested in purchasing the new book analyzing > the Oseberg textiles, I just received the following e-mail. I haven't > decided how I'm going to respond yet. ... > > Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find  - The textiles) by Arne > > Emil Christensen and Margareta Nockert, Kulturhistorisk Museum (May 6th > > 2006), Universitetet i Oslo. 24 x 36 cm. 408pp. ISBN 82-8984-024-9. ... > > The cost would be $250.00. That seems more than a little excessive. When I inquired about the book for possible review in MC&T, I was told it would be 1,090 NOK, which equals 170 USD (at least today). That would have included shipping to our reviewer in Denmark, but I can't imagine it costs 80 additional dollars to ship to the US. ISTR that Beth Matney, on this list, got a copy a while back. Perhaps it is cheaper if you order direct from the museum? --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 06:46:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAABkou6026492 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:46:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAABklmT018104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:46:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAABiWo9079422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 04:44:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAABiRDk004660; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 04:44:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAABiMlX004586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 04:44:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAACgiOu007972 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:42:44 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find =?iso-8859-1?q?=A0-_The?= textiles) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:49:24 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611100649.24232.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455466A7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 06:46:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8f81d4e3-4bc4-4aac-87bf-b60c1775fa30 Status: RO On Friday 10 November 2006 12:31 am, Robin Netherton wrote: [snip] > That seems more than a little excessive. When I inquired about the book > for possible review in MC&T, I was told it would be 1,090 NOK, which > equals 170 USD (at least today). That would have included shipping to our > reviewer in Denmark, but I can't imagine it costs 80 additional dollars to > ship to the US. I suspect most of the difference is their markup. > > ISTR that Beth Matney, on this list, got a copy a while back. Perhaps it > is cheaper if you order direct from the museum? Cheaper, perhaps, but more difficult. Beth was actually in Norway and could pay in the local currency. They were not taking credit cards at that point. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 14:17:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAJHmXD013292 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:17:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAAJHi7X008352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:17:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAAJEhdF051271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:14:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAJDKJA067585; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:13:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAJD9Rb067252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:13:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from formfunc by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Gibom-0000Wc-IX for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:13:36 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user formfunc) by www.formfunction.org with HTTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:13:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <10649.24.216.120.37.1163186016.squirrel@www.formfunction.org> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061109181808.022c0008@surewest.net> References: <4552819D.2050002@reddawn.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061109181808.022c0008@surewest.net> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:13:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32096 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/3rdparty/squirrelmail/src/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/3rdparty/squirrelmail/src X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4554D058.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:17:48 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 02fc1109-b08d-4159-a028-8af0f8fbfd8c Status: RO Cathie Jung may have the official record, but here's the unofficial as far as I know: http://www.spook.dk/ (go to Past Corsets, then 14 Corset) Warnings: 1) not a family-friendly site, and 2) Just Plain Wrong. It looks like she's gone back up to 20, but it's Still Wrong. Anyway, I haven't looked into the topic thoroughly, but I'm completely in the "Victorians messed it up yet again" camp. Apart from all the cultural reasons that make it extremely likely for it to be a Victorian myth, there are the iron corsets themselves. Even without knowing the measurements, compare them to Spook's photos--either the iron corsets are made for someone about 3 feet tall with a 13" waist, or they're made for average-sized adult with a reasonable waist measurement. Take a look at a few extant or at least attributed 16thC iron corsets: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Image:Ironcorset.png http://www.geocities.com/technically_naked/1550_Italian_Steel_corset_red.jpg http://www.staylace.com/unsortedjpgs/iron.jpg Compare these to what the Victorians allege (well, in this case, a 1919 repetition of what the Victorians allege) was worn in C de M's time: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13444/13444-h/images/ill102.png (and incidentally, skim through http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13444/13444-h/13444-h.htm if you feel that you really have too much hair, and would be best served by removing some of it by hand in clumps.) If I remember rightly, Valerie Steele's book has an image of a metal (steel?) corset that almost perfectly matches this sketch, except with a larger waist; she claims that it's a Victorian hoax, and I can certainly see why, as it bears little resemblance to the more verifiable examples, and much with Victorian metal-working techniques and tastes. -E House, pro-corset, but not fond of tightlacing. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 14:54:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAJsCF9014342 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:54:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAAJs8RF013777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:54:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAAJkOZh059358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:46:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAJjph4004701; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:45:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAIpKZ2041650 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:51:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so653771uge for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=q2yaMSN9IIwg16E2Hji+7l3j3+B+igtepX0SD7ObYVJAZ57H02wWnfikbySVQYQM0ZlNBRwvBTSBvYijVm+hMTAjoZpnMtG8jTzNHyhNo4dTCsHBZSZlvmcyAukdbw4nuhZgHwDZ25YSkvHtnf4OTjZo05gIWhLfY0HbM2PXB0k= Received: by 10.67.97.18 with SMTP id z18mr3784046ugl.1163184675385; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.67.31.3 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:51:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070611101051q2f2d92b2i3f4917a422d32d50@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:51:15 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061109181808.022c0008@surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <4552819D.2050002@reddawn.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061109181808.022c0008@surewest.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4554D8E0.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:54:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4b4274e6-de16-4555-a22e-b631832fc893 Status: RO She looks gruesome in person, her face is so tortured. I saw her about 10 years ago at a Victorian ball. Katy On 11/9/06, Joan Jurancich wrote: > At 04:59 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote: > >It just happens to be Guiness World Record Day...they showed a spot > >on the local news which showed the current world record holders > >waist has expanded from 15 to 20! > > > > > >http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/extreme_bodies/smallest_waist_on_a_living_person.aspx > > > >Hmmmm > > > >Sg > > I must say I don't find her wasp-waist to be particularly > attractive. She looks like she might break in two in a high wind. > > > Joan Jurancich > joanmj@surewest.net > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 15:34:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKYlnN015539 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:34:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAAKYfOc030731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:34:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAAKSat6067645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKSVEE055832; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:28:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKSOBJ055622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:28:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from formfunc by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Giczc-0003eh-Dc for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:28:52 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user formfunc) by www.formfunction.org with HTTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:28:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <11221.24.216.120.37.1163190532.squirrel@www.formfunction.org> In-Reply-To: <10649.24.216.120.37.1163186016.squirrel@www.formfunction.org> References: <4552819D.2050002@reddawn.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061109181808.022c0008@surewest.net> <10649.24.216.120.37.1163186016.squirrel@www.formfunction.org> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:28:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] PS: World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32096 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/3rdparty/squirrelmail/src/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/3rdparty/squirrelmail/src X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4554E261.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:34:47 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e6cbf55d-6a0a-4f04-acf2-027391dfe560 Status: RO > If I remember rightly, Valerie Steele's book has an image of a metal > (steel?) corset that almost perfectly matches this sketch, except with a > larger waist; she claims that it's a Victorian hoax, and I can certainly > see why, as it bears little resemblance to the more verifiable examples, > and much with Victorian metal-working techniques and tastes. Ahh, good ol' Amazon; this book is searchable, and you can see the image/read the text about it on page 5: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0300099533/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-3522253-6315913#reader-link or http://snipurl.com/11v88 Also take a look at pages 2-6 (well, really, as far as the reader will let you, since this is one of the few books on corsets I consider to be very good). For a closer look at some of those sketches on page 3, take a look at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Iron_corset -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 15:41:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKfSjJ015876 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:41:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAAKfPJw030140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:41:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAAKf0JY069580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:41:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKeRik070228; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:40:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKdGbO068624 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:39:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [62.45.122.45]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953F0319261 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:38:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4554E36E.9050809@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:39:10 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1860 leather gloves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4554E3F5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:41:28 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f64073d7-8555-4fa9-bb3f-3b8cc61575a5 Status: RO Hi, I am looking for pictures of leather ladies gloves from around 1860. I tried to find the on the Internet but I can't seem to find any. Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 15:59:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKxXtE016362 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:59:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAAKxRQY007574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:59:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAAKwdrl073782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:58:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKwVMa093772; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:58:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAKw88V093233 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:58:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.180.82]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061110195114.WBAF24535.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:51:14 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.82]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061110195113.USHL4441.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:51:13 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061110131834.030841e0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:50:53 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene In-Reply-To: <200611101852.kAAIpcBF042051@net.indra.com> References: <200611101852.kAAIpcBF042051@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAAKw88V093233 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4554E82F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:59:33 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 75acf154-abd0-415c-be22-e24890d97bd4 Status: RO I have purchased books from both Fred Struthers and www.nordicartbooks.com . The last time I talked to Fred, he was hesitant to carry the book because of the expense and limited market. I could not find the book on Lena's website, so you will probably need to email her, if you are interested. I got the book by mail-order shortly after it was published, but it was difficult. I ended up sending the money to a friend in Norway who got it converted to Kroners and paid cash at the gift-shop for me. (I am VERY appreciate) At the end of the summer, we took our trip and I saw it for sale at both the Historical Museum and the Ship Museum. They would then take VISA or MC, but only in person (no mailorders). This we have found is fairly typical of Museums over there. (As me about the problems I had with an order from Germany sometime). If I remember right, the only other alternative that I could find was a wire-transfer from a bank. This adds significantly to the cost. I can send you more info (off list) if you want to do this. FYI. I am taking the book with me to an SCA event in Hattiesburg, MS this weekend, if anyone is in the neighborhood. Beth At 12:52 PM 11/10/2006, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:36:21 -0500 >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >Subject: [h-cost] Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find ?- > The textiles) > >In case any of you are interested in purchasing the new book analyzing the >Oseberg textiles, I just received the following e-mail. I haven't decided >how I'm going to respond yet. > >Dear Cathy, > >It is our understanding that you are interested in the following book > > > Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find  - The textiles) by Arne > > Emil Christensen and Margareta Nockert, Kulturhistorisk Museum (May 6th > > 2006), Universitetet i Oslo. 24 x 36 cm. 408pp. ISBN 82-8984-024-9. > > > > Fred Struthers sent your information along as he would like us to process >this > > order for you. > > > > The cost would be $250.00. Please confirm that you are indeed interested in > > this publication. > > > > Also please take a look at our website and let us know if you are > interested > > in other books > > > > www.nordicartbooks.com > > >Best Wishes for a Happy Holiday Season, > >Lena Torslow Hansen, Owner >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >ART CONSULTING: SCANDINAVIA >Books on Art & Architecture >3650 Cross Creek Road >Malibu, CA 90265-4946 > >TEL (310) 456-8762 >FAX (310) 456-5714 >www.nordicartbooks.com > >-- >Cathy Raymond _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 17:07:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAM7lPW018237 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:07:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAAM7gos016625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:07:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAAM0t4q085490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:00:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAM0m4M070015; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:00:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAAM0hBP069816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:00:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAAM0bgp060106 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:00:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:00:37 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <41523.65.117.156.5.1163196037.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <4554E36E.9050809@kabelfoon.nl> References: <4554E36E.9050809@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:00:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1860 leather gloves From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=7.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4554F82E.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:07:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6f4bbffd-8987-4175-845b-bdbc406c49b8 Status: RO There is a Dutch website that has a few ... let me look for the url when I get home tonight. :) Chiara On Fri, November 10, 2006 2:39 pm, Deredere Galbraith said: > Hi, > > I am looking for pictures of leather ladies gloves from around 1860. > I tried to find the on the Internet but I can't seem to find any. > > Greetings, > Deredere > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 18:48:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAANmK9U020421 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:48:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAANmGTw030632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:48:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAANkjdV003692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:46:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAANk6Hs083419; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAANjS7T082586 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:45:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.22]) by bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:45:07 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:45:07 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.38.200 by by116fd.bay116.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:45:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:45:05 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2006 23:45:07.0108 (UTC) FILETIME=[406A3E40:01C70522] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] What was that? Kyle Minogue dress at fragrance debut X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45550FC0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:48:20 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 60e9d135-473c-4e58-80d6-6d55a83c0787 Status: RO Did anyone else catch the BBC news coverage of Kyle Minogue's new fragrance debut. What was she wearing? I found this very poor quality video _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 19:18:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB0I9X2021246 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:18:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAB0I3os021621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:18:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAB0GCrU009634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:16:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB0GAUu014479; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:16:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB0G6Ml014407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:16:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAB1EUM0032629 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:14:30 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:21:10 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200611101852.kAAIpcBF042051@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20061110131834.030841e0@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20061110131834.030841e0@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611101921.11041.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455516BB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:18:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9985725e-fa77-4b64-9070-18425e9f60f3 Status: RO On Friday 10 November 2006 2:50 pm, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > I have purchased books from both Fred Struthers and www.nordicartbooks.com > . The last time I talked to Fred, he was hesitant to carry the book because > of the expense and limited market. > > I could not find the book on Lena's website, so you will probably need to > email her, if you are interested. Yes. Lena e-mailed me because I'd made my request to Fred originally. I suspect that she would, however, sell a copy to other people who contact her directly, which is why I sent the e-mail to this list. > I got the book by mail-order shortly after it was published, but it was > difficult. I ended up sending the money to a friend in Norway who got it > converted to Kroners and paid cash at the gift-shop for me. (I am VERY > appreciate) At the end of the summer, we took our trip and I saw it for > sale at both the Historical Museum and the Ship Museum. They would then > take VISA or MC, but only in person (no mailorders). This we have found is > fairly typical of Museums over there. (As me about the problems I had with > an order from Germany sometime). If I remember right, the only other > alternative that I could find was a wire-transfer from a bank. This adds > significantly to the cost. I can send you more info (off list) if you want > to do this. Please do send me that information. I've already told Lena I can't pay $250 for it (and from what I've heard from a Norwegian friend who's seen it, I might not want to), but I might pay the Norwegian price. Thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 21:20:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB2KPSN024470 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:20:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAB2KLTG022968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:20:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAB2HLxx030767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:17:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB2HHq8021497; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:17:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB2HDo0021406 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:17:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so381101pyb for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:17:10 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Zoa1WT/HdyX5j0YRtKAZl2QMLJS7wOivuYGYa6mockPHDNaRTifT6NbpmrpYbyW6kSVaptV/XTfwevB9PQHUILPiHJ2317ECChlnRDXL6rk40Zv9xTDpytTUin0ddmqsM9xWuCkeLZbhzdKpyvMwldclHoEFpgLmTTbHVe26Dtk= Received: by 10.35.65.17 with SMTP id s17mr4654817pyk.1163211429740; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.196.1 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:17:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:17:09 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: On Chopines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45553365.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:20:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e7bcb6c1-12d2-486c-bffe-0ccd3edc0c39 Status: RO H-costumers, My new chopines have been finished for a month or so now. They're quite a challenge to walk in. They've got their own webpage, too. You can scroll thru and see how they were done. My chopines are the tall red ones. http://AandS.org/raisedheels/index.html I've started dancing in them, lately. Mostly bassedanza & pavans. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com On 9/7/06, Cin wrote: > I was fitted for my new chopines last nite. You can see a picture of > the cork structure with the undyed footbed, and my fabric here: > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hysteria95126/my_photos > The album is "Works in Progress". The chopines are part of the 2nd > set. Woo-hoo I will soon ascend to the heights of fashion! > > BTW, ladies & gents, have you seen this? There's a lovely yellow > velvet 16th c chopine 360' view with zoom. Look at the tooled leather > footbed. That's different! The chopine's all covered in lace & silk > ribbon bows. http://www.allaboutshoes.ca/en/heights_of_fashion/east_meets_west/ > This is the Bata Shoe Museum's new online catalog. Oddly you cant get > to All About Shoes from the Bata Shoe Museum's or the reverse. It's > new, and that's the reason, I suppose. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 10 23:09:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB48v6G026788 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:08:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAB48reW006153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:08:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAB48Ip8046355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:08:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB48CKP009181; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:08:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAB488uS009141 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:08:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB2429E90354; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 04:01:40 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 20:08:14 -0800 Message-ID: <005901c70547$0256fa60$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <3586f5070611101051q2f2d92b2i3f4917a422d32d50@mail.gmail.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAB488uS009141 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45554CD5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:08:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7462e702-e2b3-40c5-86e5-38dd5b5209cc Status: RO In the picture on the Guinness site, is she wearing a metal corset? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Katy Bishop Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 10:51 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" She looks gruesome in person, her face is so tortured. I saw her about 10 years ago at a Victorian ball. Katy On 11/9/06, Joan Jurancich wrote: > At 04:59 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote: > >It just happens to be Guiness World Record Day...they showed a spot > >on the local news which showed the current world record holders > >waist has expanded from 15 to 20! > > > > > >http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/extreme_bodies/small est_waist_on_a_living_person.aspx > > > >Hmmmm > > > >Sg > > I must say I don't find her wasp-waist to be particularly > attractive. She looks like she might break in two in a high wind. > > > Joan Jurancich > joanmj@surewest.net > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 05:33:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABAXdAc017445 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:33:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABAXXMW000511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:33:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABAX4rd097614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 03:33:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABAWvIG004568; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 03:32:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail7.tpgi.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABAWpN1004502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 03:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-222-133-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.133]) by mail7.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kABAWnjF020754 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:32:50 +1100 Message-ID: <3a7101c7057c$bb5211f0$85def5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <005901c70547$0256fa60$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Subject: Re: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:32:46 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4555A6FD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 05:33:39 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b40c5089-7711-45b0-aed1-5a3662d6ac5c Status: RO I think so I'm pretty sure I've read about it somewhere last time mythical waist sizes came up on one of my lists, but it's a corset cover not an actual corset there's a fabric corset underneath that actually gets her waist down to that size and then the metal corset cover is a decorative piece of jewellery to go over the top. Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:08 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" > In the picture on the Guinness site, is she wearing a metal corset? > > >>http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/extreme_bodies/small > est_waist_on_a_living_person.aspx >> > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 08:47:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABDl8nO008240 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:47:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABDl3Y8025312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:47:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABDkK0k022544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:46:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABDkG0m070715; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:46:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABDkCdQ070643 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:46:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kABDkB801527 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 07:46:11 -0600 To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for 13" Message-ID: <1163252771.4555d423676f0@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 07:46:11 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <005901c70547$0256fa60$0200a8c0@bob3pc> In-Reply-To: <005901c70547$0256fa60$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4555D457.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:47:08 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5127653b-f0d2-4551-aaaf-30bdf70542aa Status: RO It certainly looks like it, yes. Or at least a metal corset cover. (I think there must be a laced corset underneath to cinch down the waist. I don't think you could use hinged metal to reduce the waist without pinching something tender) Emma Quoting "Sharon at Collierfam.com" : > In the picture on the Guinness site, is she wearing a metal corset? > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > Behalf Of Katy Bishop > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 10:51 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] World Record says 15??? was: Corset Training for > 13" > > > She looks gruesome in person, her face is so tortured. I saw her > about 10 years ago at a Victorian ball. > > Katy > > On 11/9/06, Joan Jurancich wrote: > > At 04:59 PM 11/9/2006, you wrote: > > >It just happens to be Guiness World Record Day...they showed a spot > > >on the local news which showed the current world record holders > > >waist has expanded from 15 to 20! > > > > > > > > > >http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records/human_body/extreme_bodies/small > est_waist_on_a_living_person.aspx > > > > > >Hmmmm > > > > > >Sg > > > > I must say I don't find her wasp-waist to be particularly > > attractive. She looks like she might break in two in a high wind. > > > > > > Joan Jurancich > > joanmj@surewest.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > -- > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > http://anvil.unl.edu/emma http://HelixHandworks.etsy.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 09:36:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABEaZlU009110 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:36:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABEaVYl000585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:36:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABEaC21034594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 07:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABEa87B013192; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 07:36:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37511.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37511.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kABEa5qF013050 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 07:36:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 8982 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Nov 2006 14:36:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=vIu9thKAX73ckVfoL9ZoN+K9SjdV0YyenNlwOMJJKlG420BfbYuhbKouLXlxLmmIOghJSyvL/vapK/pBcInNPtvJkbjLu5mGR3P2jUMWJy19LVmHVkF51Lvu8GTKte3PXc2jpglF0b8naH20q0jRABcaXx7O1yGq+8cXz5ZrtDQ= ; Message-ID: <20061111143600.8979.qmail@web37511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37511.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:36:00 PST Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 06:36:00 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova To: h-costume MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] cloak clasps X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4555DFEF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:36:34 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8b096ca9-78cb-4c94-bf93-0456d2eeaadb Status: RO Greetings:-)) Does anyone know some good source where I can buy some cloak clasps of reasonable prices and shipping? Preferably from the UK, because I'm from Europe. Thanks, Zuzana --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 10:27:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABFQZgO010096 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:26:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABFQTwL019542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:26:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABFKieH039429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:20:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABFKfLR050961; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:20:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web23108.mail.ird.yahoo.com (web23108.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.189.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kABFKaXj050840 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:20:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 26599 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Nov 2006 15:20:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bc/0cMU22/kaEanm5jTCNg9U21TrUm/zVQpQlYG6HNjEHItIZ9IBl/livXOAEi0oZ/bl4KiXfd6+6X6rY0hjJ16O8ZFCYCI8mNr2hPi9/uecI3AA6HpV5z8Gl6uInl3oGBMNOpVCHs8k60UX8R5J4S5MVECDbn/7nG+gKQhtbhE= ; Message-ID: <20061111152030.26597.qmail@web23108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Received: from [87.244.68.142] by web23108.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:20:30 GMT Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:20:30 +0000 (GMT) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloak clasps? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20061111143600.8979.qmail@web37511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Steve Millingham X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4555EBA5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:26:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 952b5139-3915-4652-b266-68433a4ce7d1 Status: RO REPLY Gentle Lady Zuzana, from previous personal experience, I'd suggest you take a look at the online catalogues of Steve Millingham's "Pewter Replicas", and Colin Torode's "Lionheart Replicas". I believe both Gentles are Master Pewterers, - and I have had the pleasure of dealing with these UK-based Merchants over the last 3 years, and enjoyed quite exceptional and helpful service from both of them. I believe that both of their catalogues show replica cloak clasps, either modelled upon archeological finds or examples already in National Museums such as the Museum of London. Disclaimer, - I have no commercial relationships with either, save as a VERY satisfied customer. I cannot recommend them highly enough.. Yours in Service to our Dream Julian Wilson, in "old" Jersey, [aka in the SCA as Matthew Baker] Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Greetings:-)) Does anyone know some good source where I can buy some cloak clasps of reasonable prices and shipping? Preferably from the UK, because I'm from Europe. Thanks, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 10:44:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABFi5RS010461 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:44:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABFi1GR017336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:44:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABFhfLi042737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:43:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABFhdKj069877; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:43:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABFhYvQ069736 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:43:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061111154330.PJWM13142.fep32.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:43:30 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.145]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061111154330.BGPN1080.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:43:30 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c705a8$247524d0$9114a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: On Chopines Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:43:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.161.20.145] at Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:43:19 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4555EFC1.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:44:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4db5463b-c1e5-4854-9e4e-d599c3121a51 Status: RO Hi Cynthia, Those are gorgeous Chopines, gosh how beautifull! Must be something of a challenge to both walk and not the least to danse with! Thanks for showing. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:17 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: On Chopines > H-costumers, > My new chopines have been finished for a month or so now. They're > quite a challenge to walk in. They've got their own webpage, too. > You can scroll thru and see how they were done. My chopines are the > tall red ones. > http://AandS.org/raisedheels/index.html > I've started dancing in them, lately. Mostly bassedanza & pavans. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > > On 9/7/06, Cin wrote: >> I was fitted for my new chopines last nite. You can see a picture of >> the cork structure with the undyed footbed, and my fabric here: >> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hysteria95126/my_photos >> The album is "Works in Progress". The chopines are part of the 2nd >> set. Woo-hoo I will soon ascend to the heights of fashion! >> >> BTW, ladies & gents, have you seen this? There's a lovely yellow >> velvet 16th c chopine 360' view with zoom. Look at the tooled leather >> footbed. That's different! The chopine's all covered in lace & silk >> ribbon bows. >> http://www.allaboutshoes.ca/en/heights_of_fashion/east_meets_west/ >> This is the Bata Shoe Museum's new online catalog. Oddly you cant get >> to All About Shoes from the Bata Shoe Museum's or the reverse. It's >> new, and that's the reason, I suppose. >> --cin >> Cynthia Barnes >> CinBarnes@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 12:06:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABH6suk012569 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:06:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABH6ouV009588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:06:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABH5t2F055923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:05:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABH5pGU044035; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:05:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABH5iZr043848 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:05:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 11 Nov 2006 17:05:38 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAGCRVUXUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACBS4sDCQ4q Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:2282 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GiwIU-000Pma-BL for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 17:05:38 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061111170407.033432c8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 17:05:31 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] cloak clasps In-Reply-To: <20061111143600.8979.qmail@web37511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061111143600.8979.qmail@web37511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4556032A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:06:54 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: da0ca762-c957-4f25-87e2-3f1d648680b1 Status: RO At 14:36 11/11/2006, you wrote: >Greetings:-)) > > Does anyone know some good source where I can buy some cloak > clasps of reasonable prices and shipping? Preferably from the UK, > because I'm from Europe. > http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/shop/shop.php Accessories start on page 8. Know them by reputation only - have not bought personally. http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk/products.php?cat=51&pg=2 as above - not bought but have seen his goods. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 13:10:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABIAO8V013856 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:10:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABIAKjK020012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:10:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABI9ajj065514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:09:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABI9Xum000563; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:09:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.228]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABI9TIj000503 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 11:09:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t11so1000291wxc for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:09:28 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=hVq4U9RCKrSLGFmzs+ONCr34omtK5HjXdDy+ftxsrnCj5bsqUkpEqjh7DC0n6pz3+RaXjXNLdplSIJiaUaUno/M9oqg1CqaY0Q3Mw22ZoKcWSBy+JwbtBwh0gqrayu+IW740OHlAMYmlTuG3cyIadYxvO7Nv+4W5RNhmXpc/hM4= Received: by 10.70.19.16 with SMTP id 16mr5756301wxs.1163268568025; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:09:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.78.3 with HTTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:09:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7d21ac190611111009r574515f8lf90f802cff1600c2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:09:27 -0500 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: On Chopines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4556120C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:10:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 559adde1-4da0-4329-b3d4-8af3a1157ced Status: RO I LOVE your red brocaded chopines! Thank you much for posting your "how to" site - this will definitely go on my (massive) backlist of potential future projects! Allison T. On 11/11/06, h-costume-request@indra.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:17:09 -0800 > From: Cin > Subject: [h-cost] Re: On Chopines > To: h-cost > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > H-costumers, > My new chopines have been finished for a month or so now. They're > quite a challenge to walk in. They've got their own webpage, too. > You can scroll thru and see how they were done. My chopines are the > tall red ones. > http://AandS.org/raisedheels/index.html > I've started dancing in them, lately. Mostly bassedanza & pavans. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > > On 9/7/06, Cin wrote: > > I was fitted for my new chopines last nite. You can see a picture of > > the cork structure with the undyed footbed, and my fabric here: > > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/hysteria95126/my_photos > > The album is "Works in Progress". The chopines are part of the 2nd > > set. Woo-hoo I will soon ascend to the heights of fashion! > > > > BTW, ladies & gents, have you seen this? There's a lovely yellow > > velvet 16th c chopine 360' view with zoom. Look at the tooled leather > > footbed. That's different! The chopine's all covered in lace & silk > > ribbon bows. http://www.allaboutshoes.ca/en/heights_of_fashion/east_meets_west/ > > This is the Bata Shoe Museum's new online catalog. Oddly you cant get > > to All About Shoes from the Bata Shoe Museum's or the reverse. It's > > new, and that's the reason, I suppose. > > --cin > > Cynthia Barnes > > CinBarnes@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 15:36:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABKavLJ017357 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:36:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABKarpn002626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:36:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABKa6SO085938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:36:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABKZpq2025747; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:35:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABKZjwA025568 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:35:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep46.mail.dk ([195.41.46.229]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061111203539.YYGR13142.fep32.mail.dk@fep46.mail.dk> for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:35:39 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.145]) by fep46.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061111203539.BJAN15028.fep46.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:35:39 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c705d0$f97ddbe0$9114a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:35:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep46.mail.dk from [80.161.20.145] at Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:35:36 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dress type X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45563465.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:36:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a94bf078-63a1-41b9-b9c7-a7f9b982c4ed Status: RO I have finally found a propper picture to show. This is a painting of the view over the thames. Its from the mid century. You can clearly see that the ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in the back. I have seen this type of dress in many danish paintings two, yeat this type of dress is never spoken of in any history books. So i ask you! Please take a look at this painting wich i uploaded, it is cropped just to show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so its not the best quality. What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, or is the skirt attached to the bodice? I am so curious to hear what you think! http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 16:26:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABLQswo018314 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:26:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABLQmw6006361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:26:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABLQBwq092655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:26:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABLQAhQ066660; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:26:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABLQ6jb066533 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-62-55.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.55.62]) by pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id kABLQ2vB029345 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:26:03 -0600 Message-ID: <45563FFF.6030803@wideopenwest.com> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:26:23 -0500 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type References: <000701c705d0$f97ddbe0$9114a150@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000701c705d0$f97ddbe0$9114a150@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45564018.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:26:54 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: eaf1de5b-e16f-4214-90fb-89e726bc0eff Status: RO I don't know what sort of dress this is called, but some of those ladies are showing an awful lot of ankle! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 16:40:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABLe2id018592 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:40:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABLdxOF003407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:40:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABLdGbe094759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:39:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABLdDcH077430; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:39:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.149]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kABLd8Jf077289 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:39:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 66199 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Nov 2006 21:39:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=nf3dqW6LQ84A2VxrxenRjETEK42PdZ5dXuCtesN0qIiwVqCILTAx5a67zP6Q6nsA72c+CYUo1w7Iw80HKWlZ+oVDm4stGZ6LW9Dwr5Xm1o4rNg4ZT+bc/lRkpnn2KsqDc3eONpqyhyHWnv2ZTD7ZUNDM0IIcm0a0UXb5uMyBeb4= ; Message-ID: <20061111213902.66197.qmail@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:39:02 PST Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:39:02 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061107235002.03341288@suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4556432F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:40:02 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2e58ddcd-4c7c-4308-8138-76c73f0de9d6 Status: RO I didn't know there was a sex machine museum in Prague! Gotta go there sometime:-)) Suzi Clarke wrote: At 23:00 07/11/2006, you wrote: >The story so far: > >Here is the specific block of text that really got my curiosity up, this is >copied from en.wikibooks.org; it's one of the hits I got when I did a google >image search for "iron corset" > >--copied text follows-- > >Iron corsets are Victorian Era corsetcovers made of metal. There are >several in >museum collections. > >It is sometimes claimed that these were the everyday wear of women and girls >throughout Europe in the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries. >But they are >more likely to be orthopedic instruments used by a very few women >whose posture >was not considered acceptable by the health and beauty standards of the time. > > * It is likely that the Iron Corset was originally a type of armour worn >only by men. > * The fact is as the "iron corset" was used both of men and > women, but only >on dress occasions. The iron was heavy, but the dress was also heavy, and the >iron was padded underneath like armour. The silk of that time was >very expensive >but of poor quality and stretched poorly. It looked beautiful on the shining >metal. The iron corset also worked as a bulletproof waistcoat, because >assassination by knife in heart was a common risk. > * The padded "iron corset" and armour was known as a corset on > women, and a >waistcoat (vest) on men. > >--end copied text-- > >This block, or portions of it, is used on any number of websites. I'd like to >know where these ideas came from. Not in this text is the idea that the iron >corset was invented by the de Medici's, or that Catherine wore one to achieve >her 13 inch waist, though that's another common theme. The iron corsets I've >located so far are as follows: >http://dept.kent.edu/museum/costume/bonc/4subjectsearch/lingerie/lingerie18th/lingerie18.html >one in the sex machines museum (you have been warned)(not actually sexually >explicit) in the "sex machines gallary" http://www.sexmachinesmuseum.com >http://employees.oneonta.edu/angellkg/RENAISSA.HTML near the bottom >of the page. >This one is in the Cluny museum? >http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Iron_corset two more, as well as >duplicates and drawings. >http://web.archive.org/web/20050302121500/http://greatdayamerica.com/style/fashion/lycracorset.shtml >http://www.staylace.com/unsortedjpgs/iron.jpg I *think* this one is in the >Wallace Collection >http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/fall99/bendlin/page2.html one new and >one repeat >and finally >http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13444/13444-h/13444-h.htm#page101 >which is a facimile of a book published in 1920 which includes >variations on the >de Medici comments. > >I have some theories, any or all of which may be true. I think some of the >corsets may have been shop signs or orthopedic devices. I think some of them >might have been victorian reproductions or fetish objects. (I have >at least one >victorian "naughty" picture of a woman in an iron corset--it is a "medieval" >costume) > >I welcome any thoughts anybody else might have. I have always thought they could be early dress dummies - no boobs ones are easy to pad to shape. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 16:49:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABLnj2T018768 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:49:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABLng3d008922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:49:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABLnH6k096231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:49:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABLnGWH086114; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:49:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABLnC5F085951 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:49:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036A2AD55A for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:49:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <45564568.3050802@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:49:28 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: On Chopines References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45564576.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:49:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 610249e8-f7a9-4311-a1f8-58593298b45e Status: RO Cin wrote: > You can scroll thru and see how they were done. My chopines are the > tall red ones. I can't wait to see the dress that goes with them! Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 18:31:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNVkpG020772 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:31:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABNVgfX005710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:31:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABNUxEq013121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:30:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNUuXA073183; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNUqMW073045 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.57f.b413a96 (29679) for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:30:42 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <57f.b413a96.3287b722@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:30:42 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45565D5E.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:31:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8f7851b0-225f-43d6-8f01-935a2ac12637 Status: RO Y'know....now that I look at Mrs. Andrews again _http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/andrews.jpg_ (http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/andrews.jpg) It looks more like the crisp blue silk of her dress in is spread out and poofed up on the bench from her sitting, and not a pannier at all. Great painting, huh? I'd forgotten how lovely it was. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 18:34:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNYJnH020824 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:34:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABNYFZo031070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:34:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABNXtRd013617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:33:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNXr2i075525; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:33:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNXofi075421 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:33:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c41.7f8864b (29679) for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:33:42 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:33:42 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45565DF7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:34:19 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 58034992-39d7-4ee9-bcbb-7ec64b4c0530 Status: RO What year is the painting, may I ask? It looks awfully stylized by the artist to me, the exaggerated shape and feel of the skirts being the same on all figures. But I don't see why this couldn't be an "en fourreau" gown, or one cut with a separate bodice if late in the century. The ladies have aprons but one looks like she has a stomacher too. So the gowns could be that popular thing in England of gown and petticoat and trimmings all of one plain fabric....usually with a very wide pannier. Like Gainsborough's "Mr. & Mrs Andrews" . But upon looking at the painting I see it appears Mrs. Andrews has a jacket and petticoat arrangement all in one plain fabric. Interesting. _http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/andrews.jpg_ (http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/andrews.jpg) Then here's "Mary, Countess Howe" all in pink, but without the pannier. _http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/howe.jpg_ (http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/howe.jpg) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 18:51:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNpUPx021145 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:51:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kABNpRkT011752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:51:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kABNp47c016177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:51:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNp1RS089195; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:51:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNoYpQ088949 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:50:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kABNoWK05535 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 17:50:32 -0600 To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish) Message-ID: <1163289032.455661c8ac95a@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 17:50:32 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <20061111213902.66197.qmail@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061111213902.66197.qmail@web37502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455661FF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:51:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ee82f261-7a42-49a1-818e-3ecd35176c73 Status: RO > Suzi Clarke wrote: > I didn't know there was a sex machine museum in Prague! Gotta go there > sometime:-)) > We expect a full report on the corset when you do! (Honestly, if you're planning on going, I could come up with a list of questions for you to ask...) Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 23:24:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC4ObH6025805 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:24:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAC4OYbu010463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:24:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAC4MLLG058529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:22:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC4MHnj010618; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:22:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from server022.dfw.nationwide.net (server022.dfw.nationwide.net [206.123.129.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kABLnvm0086720 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:49:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 21948 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2006 21:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO spamfilter.nationwide.net) (127.0.0.1) by server022.dfw.nationwide.net with SMTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:49:56 +0000 Received: from 67.174.246.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by spamfilter.nationwide.net with HTTP; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:49:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1047.67.174.246.110.1163281796.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net> In-Reply-To: <000701c705d0$f97ddbe0$9114a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <000701c705d0$f97ddbe0$9114a150@CPQ21932199711> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:49:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4556A202.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:24:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 491bc8e1-8707-4097-a43a-5558cf23515a Status: RO > I have finally found a propper picture to show. This is a painting of the > view over the thames. Its from the mid century. You can clearly see that > the > ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in the back. I have seen > this type of dress in many danish paintings two, yeat this type of dress > is > never spoken of in any history books. > So i ask you! > Please take a look at this painting wich i uploaded, it is cropped just to > show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so its not the best > quality. > What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, or is the skirt > attached > to the bodice? > I am so curious to hear what you think! > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm To me it looks like a version of the "Anglaise" style dress. Or am I missing something? If they are Anglaise dresses, then the skirt is attached to the bodice, they close in the front with small straight pins, and the bottom of the bodice comes to a point in the front and back. The skirt is also pleated to the bodice all the way around. Hope that helps! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 23:27:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC4RC2d025842 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:27:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAC4R9i6031272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:27:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAC4PExg059055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:25:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC4PDOE012869; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:25:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNPHog068177 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:25:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.53f.6fcf8601 (29679) for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:25:05 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <53f.6fcf8601.3287b5d1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:25:05 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4556A29D.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:27:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 152ca1b4-d003-4bcd-b069-3e848857cb23 Status: RO What year is the painting, may I ask? It looks awfully stylized by the artist to me, the exaggerated shape and feel of the skirts being the same on all figures. But I don't see why this couldn't be an "en fourreau" gown, or one cut with a separate bodice if late in the century. The ladies have aprons but one looks like she has a stomacher too. So the gowns could be that popular thing in England of gown and petticoat and trimmings all of one plain fabric....usually with a very wide pannier. Like Gainsborough's "Mr. & Mrs Andrews" . But upon looking at the painting I see it appears Mrs. Andrews has a jacket and petticoat arrangement all in one plain fabric. Interesting. _http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/andrews.jpg_ (http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/andrews.jpg) Then here's "Mary, Countess Howe" all in pink, but without the pannier. _http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/howe.jpg_ (http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gainsborough/howe.jpg) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 11 23:29:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC4Tlfe025877 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:29:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAC4TiHh032476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:29:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAC4ORwT058912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:24:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC4OQBW012238; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s25.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s25.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABNGMIr061116 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 16:16:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.23]) by bay0-omc1-s25.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:16:16 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:16:16 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.222.128.141 by BAY121-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:16:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.222.128.141] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c705d0$f97ddbe0$9114a150@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:16:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2006 23:16:16.0714 (UTC) FILETIME=[636ED2A0:01C705E7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4556A338.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:29:47 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5e3b02d9-4115-476b-abd5-e2fa8f69ac7d Status: RO It looks to be to be a Robe a' l'anglaise with an en fereau back. Most of the bodice is cut seperately from the skirt, except the narrow centre back piece, that one is cut one with the skirt. The pieces are then all stitched together as a dress, kinda like what you would do if it were a sacque. hope that helps Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] dress type >I have finally found a propper picture to show. This is a painting of the >view over the thames. Its from the mid century. You can clearly see that >the ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in the back. I have >seen this type of dress in many danish paintings two, yeat this type of >dress is never spoken of in any history books. > So i ask you! > Please take a look at this painting wich i uploaded, it is cropped just to > show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so its not the best > quality. > What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, or is the skirt > attached to the bodice? > I am so curious to hear what you think! > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 03:27:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC8RFN5030138 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:27:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAC8R9R5015643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:27:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAC4QHuj059215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC4QHsW013761; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:26:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1a.socket.net [216.106.88.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC0Xeb6021978 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 17:33:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F80338BA1 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:33:40 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloak clasps Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 18:33:47 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <20061111143600.8979.qmail@web37511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4556DADD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:27:15 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a1dc9f47-5d07-4bfb-a96a-5b0c62185feb Status: RO What period/era of cloak? What country? Some "countries" you can find the option of lacing instead of clasp. Usually eyelet holes or rings 3-4 on each side and ladder laced. I haven't seen criss cross. Also buttons. De -----Original Message----- Greetings:-)) Does anyone know some good source where I can buy some cloak clasps of reasonable prices and shipping? Preferably from the UK, because I'm from Europe. Thanks, Zuzana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 03:27:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC8RFN7030138 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:27:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAC8R9R7015643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:27:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAC4NhZX058813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:23:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC4NgZX011713; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:23:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s40.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s40.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.240]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kABMjIWC034175 for ; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:45:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.38.73]) by bay0-omc3-s40.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:45:13 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:45:13 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 216.160.217.110 by BAY116-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 11 Nov 2006 22:45:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000701c705d0$f97ddbe0$9114a150@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:45:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 15:45:23 -0700 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2006 22:45:13.0264 (UTC) FILETIME=[0CBAEB00:01C705E3] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4556DADD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:27:21 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9e76684a-baaa-488a-885a-2c28d2ad4f1e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kAC8RFN7030138 Status: RO I am no expert here, but Boucher says in general middle class in this period showed feet and ankles. Page 300 shows http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/2003/genre/158-058.htm as an example. She also discusses several others which don't appear to have anything on the back (unlike the pleats (a l' francaise) or the "saque" gown where the fabric at the back was apparently gathered.) She doesn't give a name for them. Not clear, but perhaps one can infer here that the robe a l' Anglaise do not have the fabric at the back? She says the a l' francaise was worn for ceremonies where as the l' Anglaise was worn in every day life. Here is one from the middle of the century which doesn't appear to have the back fabric: http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=277 Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 04:43:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC9hFtQ008770 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:43:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAC9h9WP016275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:43:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAC9fc6A003175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 02:41:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC9evgs054724; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 02:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAC9ervN054569 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 02:40:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 87669 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2006 09:40:48 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=eG2aWL2ExVGUabhlLKEW4wj13adaAO4GlisBgsv4BCpYh6WTNv3PQLJuHjZYqrFIiw4fwYY7ORgVTMPOfVDau0+s/fe/20c6NZMQhLwGlhQH6zIca4PY1MAFgR/NIDlZkfSgh35FXCnvdTJ7eJdayeo3fTj11YYfRfqmTrKrhA8= ; Message-ID: <20061112094048.87667.qmail@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 01:40:48 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 01:40:48 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: RE: [h-cost] iron corset ( long-ish) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1163289032.455661c8ac95a@webmail02.unl.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4556ECAD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:43:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2051aea7-439a-4d37-aa2f-acc31a42e314 Status: RO I'll definitely go! I'm just very busy now, so I only have to find out when, probably this or next week. So, if you have questions, ask! I'll give a report after the visit:-)) 00217146@bigred.unl.edu wrote: > Suzi Clarke wrote: > I didn't know there was a sex machine museum in Prague! Gotta go there > sometime:-)) > We expect a full report on the corset when you do! (Honestly, if you're planning on going, I could come up with a list of questions for you to ask...) Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 04:52:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC9qJVp009086 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:52:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAC9qGG2011191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:52:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAC9pcN2004327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 02:51:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAC9pbYL063697; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 02:51:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAC9pXm3063558 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 02:51:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 44632 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2006 09:51:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ZBWDDzgxcSU+hccyWAzqHWVeK1sABoF0ylrzp/f1OT1Yz3cCviZqaBh25WkJy/qQY64L5tctjL8A2m7jxBZ+IvAbfAdZkYSTqJC2ScyPGaTuSgI/3aev57qcQgaqOzSYgyIL/GiQdwsxeoygd1I8f+GG9ZSpdE6ah3S4cNhNTyA= ; Message-ID: <20061112095128.44630.qmail@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 01:51:28 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 01:51:28 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloak clasps To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4556EED0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:52:19 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 050a79a9-f943-46a1-ab20-482589d6caf0 Status: RO Middle ages, and renaissance maybe. But the period is not so important as I'm often doing fantasy costumes (like LOTR style etc.) That's why I'm actually looking for cloak clasps - for fantasy costumes - for the medieval ones I can use lacing (or buttons). Here in Prague cloak clasps don't exist, so I'll be happy to find just any cloak clasps, like f.ex. at twin roses designs or patterns of time. But they're both American and the shipping would be quite expensive. otsisto wrote: What period/era of cloak? What country? Some "countries" you can find the option of lacing instead of clasp. Usually eyelet holes or rings 3-4 on each side and ladder laced. I haven't seen criss cross. Also buttons. De -----Original Message----- Greetings:-)) Does anyone know some good source where I can buy some cloak clasps of reasonable prices and shipping? Preferably from the UK, because I'm from Europe. Thanks, Zuzana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 08:01:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACD1hPH018745 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:01:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACD1d7o014908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:01:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACD0nxv039765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:00:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACD0bi7034816; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:00:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.128]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACD0WaC034643 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:00:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from concertmasterp@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 22649 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2006 13:00:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pw+cjJn33gmZBG5rygQkSNnGPR21YEt4X0fWLX+dftpBTU5tJh7AeT+8zk0kywWrvfbPnVXqmDhv/wbNpLoR2VaAN7xqdY2eWHfnwQZ0BkXozw+jLueWr2M+R+jTywgUu4Yw5JNILFeZmkraMrQiI8ySVd7wzEVIlfP5WdYd030= ; Message-ID: <20061112130027.22647.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.88.122.24] by web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 05:00:27 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 05:00:27 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Pabinquit Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1047.67.174.246.110.1163281796.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45571B33.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:01:43 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ab4b8513-24a2-4b4c-88d7-c4ed44b3e9ea Status: RO I have seen this dress. In the original movie, The King And I, Anna is wearing one during the State Dinner seen when she is dancung with Yul Brenner. --- Diana Habra wrote: > > > I have finally found a propper picture to show. > This is a painting of the > > view over the thames. Its from the mid century. > You can clearly see that > > the > > ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in > the back. I have seen > > this type of dress in many danish paintings two, > yeat this type of dress > > is > > never spoken of in any history books. > > So i ask you! > > Please take a look at this painting wich i > uploaded, it is cropped just to > > show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so > its not the best > > quality. > > What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, > or is the skirt > > attached > > to the bodice? > > I am so curious to hear what you think! > > > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm > > To me it looks like a version of the "Anglaise" > style dress. Or am I > missing something? > > If they are Anglaise dresses, then the skirt is > attached to the bodice, > they close in the front with small straight pins, > and the bottom of the > bodice comes to a point in the front and back. The > skirt is also pleated > to the bodice all the way around. > > Hope that helps! > > Diana > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > "Become the change you want to see in the world." > --Ghandi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 08:24:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACDOcMJ019360 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:24:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACDOYBf006009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:24:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACDMMCQ043364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:22:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACDMKXM053448; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:22:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACDM0Yq053148 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:22:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2006 13:21:54 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAJqtVkXUSnInh2dsb2JhbACBS4sBAgkOKg Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1775 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GjFGw-000CQt-An for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:21:18 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061112131419.033634a0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:20:21 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type In-Reply-To: <20061112130027.22647.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1047.67.174.246.110.1163281796.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net> <20061112130027.22647.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45572092.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:24:38 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 024aff53-7387-4d11-856a-0ae35dea6ef4 Status: RO At 13:00 12/11/2006, you wrote: >I have seen this dress. In the original movie, The >King And I, Anna is wearing one during the State >Dinner seen when she is dancung with Yul Brenner. > >--- Diana Habra wrote: > > > > > > I have finally found a propper picture to show. > > This is a painting of the > > > view over the thames. Its from the mid century. > > You can clearly see that > > > the > > > ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in > > the back. I have seen > > > this type of dress in many danish paintings two, > > yeat this type of dress > > > is > > > never spoken of in any history books. > > > So i ask you! > > > Please take a look at this painting wich i > > uploaded, it is cropped just to > > > show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so > > its not the best > > > quality. > > > What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, > > or is the skirt > > > attached > > > to the bodice? > > > I am so curious to hear what you think! > > > > > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm > > > > To me it looks like a version of the "Anglaise" > > style dress. Or am I > > missing something? > > > > If they are Anglaise dresses, then the skirt is > > attached to the bodice, > > they close in the front with small straight pins, > > and the bottom of the > > bodice comes to a point in the front and back. The > > skirt is also pleated > > to the bodice all the way around. > > > > Hope that helps! This is taken from a painting by Canaletto in 1747. It's one of his London from the Thames paintings. Here is the full painting. http://www.abcgallery.com/C/canaletto/canaletto31.html (I hope). Are there dresses like this in "Fitting and Proper", or "Costume Close-up", or "Costume in Detail", or "Historic Fashion in Detail"? (the 18th century one.) I'm away from my books and can't check right now. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 08:53:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACDrbtA020049 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:53:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACDrXSG013504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:53:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACDr3xV048684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:53:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACDr0DH081551; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:53:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACDqoSn081278 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 06:52:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2006 13:52:45 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAOyzVkXUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACBS4sBAgkOKg Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1978 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GjFlM-0000Bm-Us for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:52:45 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061112132112.03363358@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:22:24 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloak clasps In-Reply-To: <20061112095128.44630.qmail@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061112095128.44630.qmail@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4557275D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:53:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6d190de8-4a06-45d0-a404-322a2dbd4538 Status: RO At 09:51 12/11/2006, you wrote: >Middle ages, and renaissance maybe. But the period is not so >important as I'm often doing fantasy costumes (like LOTR style etc.) >That's why I'm actually looking for cloak clasps - for fantasy >costumes - for the medieval ones I can use lacing (or buttons). Here >in Prague cloak clasps don't exist, so I'll be happy to find just >any cloak clasps, like f.ex. at twin roses designs or patterns of >time. But they're both American and the shipping would be quite expensive. > > >otsisto wrote: > What period/era of cloak? What country? >Some "countries" you can find the option of lacing instead of clasp. Usually >eyelet holes or rings 3-4 on each side and ladder laced. I haven't seen >criss cross. >Also buttons. >De > >-----Original Message----- >Greetings:-)) > >Does anyone know some good source where I can buy some cloak clasps of >reasonable prices and shipping? Preferably from the UK, because I'm from >Europe. Repeating my previous post in case you didn't see it, Zuzana. http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/shop/shop.php Accessories start on page 8. Know them by reputation only - have not bought personally. http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk/products.php?cat=51&pg=2 as above - not bought but have seen his goods. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 09:43:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACEh4JL021457 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:43:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACEgwlQ032336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:43:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACEgGJh057467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:42:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACEgA1Q026702; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:42:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACEg3iH026463 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:42:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061112144157.LWUH13142.fep32.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:41:57 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.164.110.184]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061112144157.BQOE1080.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:41:57 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01c70668$b7fb1780$b86ea450@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1047.67.174.246.110.1163281796.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net><20061112130027.22647.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061112131419.033634a0@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:42:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.164.110.184] at Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:41:52 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455732F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:43:03 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 554acf5d-32c9-4608-ab8b-0694b21cd757 Status: RO Hi, This is excactly what there are not. No patterns of such a dress. Because the dress only consist of one skirt, i wonder how the skirt would be attached to the bodice. Could it be that the whole front skirt was put to some tape ties, where it would be attached to the back of the skirt at the middle of the bodice, and then the pointed bodice would be pinned in the front over the skirt? What i would be very interrested in was how the cut would have ben like in the back, perhaps the fourreau style or the mantua style with sewn down pleats? It is strange that all costume historians leaved this type out, because it surely was very popular, also in Denmark. Besides its not as much fabric consuming as a francaise is or anglaise for that matter, because it only has one skirt. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type > At 13:00 12/11/2006, you wrote: >>I have seen this dress. In the original movie, The >>King And I, Anna is wearing one during the State >>Dinner seen when she is dancung with Yul Brenner. >> >>--- Diana Habra wrote: >> >> > >> > > I have finally found a propper picture to show. >> > This is a painting of the >> > > view over the thames. Its from the mid century. >> > You can clearly see that >> > > the >> > > ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in >> > the back. I have seen >> > > this type of dress in many danish paintings two, >> > yeat this type of dress >> > > is >> > > never spoken of in any history books. >> > > So i ask you! >> > > Please take a look at this painting wich i >> > uploaded, it is cropped just to >> > > show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so >> > its not the best >> > > quality. >> > > What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, >> > or is the skirt >> > > attached >> > > to the bodice? >> > > I am so curious to hear what you think! >> > > >> > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm >> > >> > To me it looks like a version of the "Anglaise" >> > style dress. Or am I >> > missing something? >> > >> > If they are Anglaise dresses, then the skirt is >> > attached to the bodice, >> > they close in the front with small straight pins, >> > and the bottom of the >> > bodice comes to a point in the front and back. The >> > skirt is also pleated >> > to the bodice all the way around. >> > >> > Hope that helps! > > This is taken from a painting by Canaletto in 1747. It's one of his London > from the Thames paintings. Here is the full painting. > > http://www.abcgallery.com/C/canaletto/canaletto31.html (I hope). > > Are there dresses like this in "Fitting and Proper", or "Costume > Close-up", or "Costume in Detail", or "Historic Fashion in Detail"? (the > 18th century one.) I'm away from my books and can't check right now. > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 10:27:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFRMXD022679 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:27:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACFRJuq018154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:27:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACFQSdb065403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:26:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFQQZc069687; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:26:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37515.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37515.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.162]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACFQMJR069510 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:26:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 44441 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2006 15:26:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KRGeOR2voz4Khe+E3X3Rv2LHWokcoh7GKfIZOKjwoyuH056NlKpRP8SWE/p/I/5SddQVz3mq9sNyfZoaS7fRn9RNu62TLoh1hlYUxHkoxzaqKCf0iAHhRQ/2XINpkqLv+YxBaluYoV1Cf25J7SXzXE4HzAIAYmFufSh6lci2EpE= ; Message-ID: <20061112152617.44439.qmail@web37515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37515.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:26:17 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:26:17 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloak clasps To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061112132112.03363358@suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45573D57.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:27:22 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6f74c152-701e-463f-8a5c-2226730755fa Status: RO Oh many, many thanks! I've glanced through both the sites already but at chimera costumes I couldn't find any clasps. The site has a strange "structure" and as I couldn't find any menu with "clasps" item, I didn't search any more. Now I've searched more and I've found them! Many thanks again! Thanks to Julian Wilson, too, I think I'll remember these sellers when I'll need something really period. Their work is beautiful, I like especially the belt buckles and things around that:-) Zuzana wrote: Repeating my previous post in case you didn't see it, Zuzana. http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/shop/shop.php Accessories start on page 8. Know them by reputation only - have not bought personally. http://www.militarymetalwork.co.uk/products.php?cat=51&pg=2 as above - not bought but have seen his goods. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 10:32:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFWae7022809 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:32:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACFWUir010836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:32:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACFW5LL066387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:32:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFW3ou075099; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:32:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACASHsv094792 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:28:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7EF303D969 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:28:17 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloak clasps Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 04:28:26 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <20061112095128.44630.qmail@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45573E8E.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:32:36 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6857da05-1dec-4da0-b517-c8bd12f2875e Status: RO Cloak and Dagger. have not ordered from them and have no clue other then they might be in the US. http://www.cloakmaker.com/clasps/european.html http://www.medievalweddings.com/clasps/Celticclasp.html Treasure Cast, I know of one customer who is satisfied with their clasps. but again, US http://www.treasurecast.com/pages/cloak_clasps.htm Does it have to be clasps? Could you use frogs? Another thought would be to get coat hook and eyes and sew it to the cloak for closure and then find something that can go on the cloak to make it look like a clasp. Let me ask someone on another list for possible European clasp sellers. De -----Original Message----- Middle ages, and renaissance maybe. But the period is not so important as I'm often doing fantasy costumes (like LOTR style etc.) That's why I'm actually looking for cloak clasps - for fantasy costumes - for the medieval ones I can use lacing (or buttons). Here in Prague cloak clasps don't exist, so I'll be happy to find just any cloak clasps, like f.ex. at twin roses designs or patterns of time. But they're both American and the shipping would be quite expensive. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 10:37:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFbqp8022899 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:37:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACFbmiS015519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:37:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACFbP2w067697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:37:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFbMhs080367; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:37:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACFXxgp076997 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:34:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 34968 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2006 15:33:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wDJ/hmPDjHFmp7XM2Y8brXVizHSt9cnRv1B4NWHhC0ukZOW07SoMgOBVqf0jeTyMqIk+p9rzFITGbZDgLsXEZ8yrSH1vuz1RV4tl45z+eSrErV/vJ0OlRDb4hMuPzzLa3ilJdW3MNMFcgXPBIgTysrgBxjPVI1rP+fiYQmj+pbg= ; Message-ID: <20061112153354.34966.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:33:54 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:33:54 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova To: h-costume MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45573FCC.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:37:52 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d9f7ed77-bd7c-43db-a0eb-dcad7885e069 Status: RO By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any historical evidence of this kind of dress: http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean the gores in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody know? Zuzana --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 10:49:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFnXJC023126 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:49:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACFnT68026618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:49:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACFmlWO069234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:48:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFmhSL089843; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:48:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts36.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFmeh8089769 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:48:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([69.156.136.37]) by tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20061112154839.YKTY1811.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:48:39 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20061112103331.00bc0dc0@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:48:30 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dress Type X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45574289.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:49:33 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: dd5077a1-946c-45d2-bc86-8e9aaeeebef1 Status: RO Historic Fashion in Detail shows a "rose red ground with trails of white flowers" with "a pleated English back (altered in 1760's) the silk is 1740 (p 88). As it is Fashion in Detail I don't know what the front of the gown is like. There is a mantua 1750 (p90) that may look something like these gowns from the distance the painting puts the subjects. Nancy Bradfield's Costume in Detail shows several open robes with this back dated as early as 1730. To look like the ladies in the painting, they would need to be wearing matching (as opposed to contrasting) petticoats. There is one (p5) that although it is an open robe, the skirts are pleated all the way around to centre front which would give the look of the same colour all the way around. Page 9 shows a closed robe c.1740-50 which looks like these gowns. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 10:55:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFthUf023337 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:55:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACFteVH032365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:55:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACFsEFt070078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:54:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFsArk094927; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:54:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from server022.dfw.nationwide.net (server022.dfw.nationwide.net [206.123.129.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACFs5NE094856 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:54:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 15403 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2006 15:54:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO spamfilter.nationwide.net) (127.0.0.1) by server022.dfw.nationwide.net with SMTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:54:04 +0000 Received: from 67.174.246.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by spamfilter.nationwide.net with HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:54:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1039.67.174.246.110.1163346844.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net> In-Reply-To: <002d01c70668$b7fb1780$b86ea450@CPQ21932199711> References: <1047.67.174.246.110.1163281796.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net><20061112130027.22647.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061112131419.033634a0@suziclarke.co.uk> <002d01c70668$b7fb1780$b86ea450@CPQ21932199711> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:54:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455743FC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:55:43 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 234352e5-30e2-4390-8e59-c92f301d529d Status: RO > Hi, > This is excactly what there are not. No patterns of such a dress. > Because the dress only consist of one skirt, i wonder how the skirt would be attached to the bodice. > Could it be that the whole front skirt was put to some tape ties, where it > would be attached to the back of the skirt at the middle of the bodice, > and > then the pointed bodice would be pinned in the front over the skirt? > What i would be very interrested in was how the cut would have ben like in > the back, perhaps the fourreau style or the mantua style with sewn down > pleats? I looked through "What clothes reveal" and I saw several examples (especially in paintings) of dresses with only one skirt. But they would only show one angle of the dress so it is hard to tell where the gown opening was and whether the skirt attached to the bodice or not. It looks like the bodice does not close in the front with this type of dress. And I still think that the skirt is attached all the way around. The pleats need to be nice and neat for this style and you could not achieve that if the skirt is separate. > It is strange that all costume historians leaved this type out, because it > surely was very popular, also in Denmark > Besides its not as much fabric consuming as a francaise is or anglaise for > that matter, because it only has one skirt. > Bjarne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Suzi Clarke" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:20 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type > > >> At 13:00 12/11/2006, you wrote: >>>I have seen this dress. In the original movie, The >>>King And I, Anna is wearing one during the State >>>Dinner seen when she is dancung with Yul Brenner. >>> >>>--- Diana Habra wrote: >>> >>> > >>> > > I have finally found a propper picture to show. >>> > This is a painting of the >>> > > view over the thames. Its from the mid century. >>> > You can clearly see that >>> > > the >>> > > ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in >>> > the back. I have seen >>> > > this type of dress in many danish paintings two, >>> > yeat this type of dress >>> > > is >>> > > never spoken of in any history books. >>> > > So i ask you! >>> > > Please take a look at this painting wich i >>> > uploaded, it is cropped just to >>> > > show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so >>> > its not the best >>> > > quality. >>> > > What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, >>> > or is the skirt >>> > > attached >>> > > to the bodice? >>> > > I am so curious to hear what you think! >>> > > >>> > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm >>> > >>> > To me it looks like a version of the "Anglaise" >>> > style dress. Or am I >>> > missing something? >>> > >>> > If they are Anglaise dresses, then the skirt is >>> > attached to the bodice, >>> > they close in the front with small straight pins, >>> > and the bottom of the >>> > bodice comes to a point in the front and back. The >>> > skirt is also pleated >>> > to the bodice all the way around. >>> > >>> > Hope that helps! >> >> This is taken from a painting by Canaletto in 1747. It's one of his >> London >> from the Thames paintings. Here is the full painting. >> >> http://www.abcgallery.com/C/canaletto/canaletto31.html (I hope). >> >> Are there dresses like this in "Fitting and Proper", or "Costume >> Close-up", or "Costume in Detail", or "Historic Fashion in Detail"? (the >> 18th century one.) I'm away from my books and can't check right now. >> >> Suzi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 10:56:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFuOLd023354 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:56:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACFuKit030882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:56:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACFtD97070271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:55:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFtCjx095911; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:55:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACFt3G4095679 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 08:55:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2006 15:54:57 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAHrSVkXUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACBS4sCAgkOKg Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:2960 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GjHfd-000814-Cj for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:54:57 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061112155410.03313d10@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:54:51 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloak clasps In-Reply-To: <20061112095128.44630.qmail@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061112095128.44630.qmail@web37503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45574424.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:56:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 89e27e85-a918-4704-9e33-07470f0b2711 Status: RO At 09:51 12/11/2006, you wrote: >Middle ages, and renaissance maybe. But the period is not so >important as I'm often doing fantasy costumes (like LOTR style etc.) >That's why I'm actually looking for cloak clasps - for fantasy >costumes - for the medieval ones I can use lacing (or buttons). Here >in Prague cloak clasps don't exist, so I'll be happy to find just >any cloak clasps, like f.ex. at twin roses designs or patterns of >time. But they're both American and the shipping would be quite expensive. > > >otsisto wrote: > What period/era of cloak? What country? >Some "countries" you can find the option of lacing instead of clasp. Usually >eyelet holes or rings 3-4 on each side and ladder laced. I haven't seen >criss cross. And there is E Bay Scroll down for at least two kinds of clasp. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Medieval-Merchant_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ0QQftidZ2QQpZ2QQtZkm Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 12:02:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACH2kdv025024 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:02:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACH2gSs024419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:02:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACH1jpQ082177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:01:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACH1eEu058309; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:01:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACH1axW058179 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:01:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3551BAD822 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:01:31 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <4557538A.9020000@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:02:02 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type References: <1047.67.174.246.110.1163281796.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net> <20061112130027.22647.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061112131419.033634a0@suziclarke.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061112131419.033634a0@suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455753B2.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:02:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: bef923f6-5cef-4257-9376-b340cd3847ee Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > > Are there dresses like this in "Fitting and Proper", or "Costume > Close-up", or "Costume in Detail", or "Historic Fashion in Detail"? (the > 18th century one.) I'm away from my books and can't check right now. > Pgs 9, 13, 31, and 33 of "Costume in Detail" show "round gowns" of this type. The front meets at the waist, but not at the bustline, and they are meant to be worn with a stomacher. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 12:37:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHbeuo026109 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:37:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACHbZ3K019729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:37:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACHb8oA087952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:37:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHb5xD090197; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:37:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHaxkm090042 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:37:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c46.681d13b (39331) for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:36:45 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:36:45 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45575BDF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:37:40 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3bbd6512-a322-4733-8e61-391d9f8a154e Status: RO In a message dated 11/12/2006 9:43:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Because the dress only consist of one skirt ******************* Because of the early-ish year of the painting.... could this be gowns like in Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion, Vol.1"...the 1st 18th century gown in there, on page 22? Arnold calls it a "wrapping gown" but I don't think she means a wrapper!...an at home sorta dressing gown. It looks perfectly fine or wearing out and about. It's a logical procession from the "robe volante" [one is pictured in the big Kyoto book]. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 12:45:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHj8DN026296 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:45:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACHj25R029358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:45:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACHhfgG089038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:43:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHhdMt095996; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:43:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHhRCe095742 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:43:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2006 17:43:20 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CANPpVkXUSnInh2dsb2JhbACBS4sCAgkOKg Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:3213 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GjJMU-000Agz-MB for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:43:18 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061112173422.03316d68@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:43:23 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type In-Reply-To: <002d01c70668$b7fb1780$b86ea450@CPQ21932199711> References: <1047.67.174.246.110.1163281796.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net> <20061112130027.22647.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061112131419.033634a0@suziclarke.co.uk> <002d01c70668$b7fb1780$b86ea450@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45575D9F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:45:08 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 30235f23-9fff-4299-929f-18663731a48b Status: RO At 14:42 12/11/2006, you wrote: >Hi, >This is excactly what there are not. No patterns of such a dress. >Because the dress only consist of one skirt, i wonder how the skirt >would be attached to the bodice. >Could it be that the whole front skirt was put to some tape ties, >where it would be attached to the back of the skirt at the middle of >the bodice, and then the pointed bodice would be pinned in the front >over the skirt? >What i would be very interrested in was how the cut would have ben >like in the back, perhaps the fourreau style or the mantua style >with sewn down pleats? >It is strange that all costume historians leaved this type out, >because it surely was very popular, also in Denmark. >Besides its not as much fabric consuming as a francaise is or >anglaise for that matter, because it only has one skirt. >Bjarne There are three dresses with separate bodices, and one with an en fourreau back, all with patterns and detailed drawings of front and back, in "Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860", by Janet Arnold. One even has a zig-zag style collar, similar to the one you are looking at Bjarne. I've made this dress pattern up and it works really well. In fact I've made all of them, and providing you only use the pattern pieces as a guide (one back piece is really peculiar) they work beautifully. (Many of the dresses on this site are of this style. http://www.minuetcompany.org/gallery.html I made a number of outfits for this group, bioh men and women.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 12:58:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHwZUd026721 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACHwVgG004011 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACHw3kL091264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHvqjL008986; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:57:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHvdNI008821 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:57:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.73.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.73] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GjJaG-0000iW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:57:33 -0500 Message-ID: <45576E09.30601@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:55:05 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review References: <000001c7046f$dce3b520$0200a8c0@bob3pc> <000d01c7047e$a4342660$f8f0f4dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455760C7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 95105c44-7c46-4f05-8d3e-591cce9acd97 Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > The Fall/veil is shaped like a sleeve because it's attached at the top > of the shaped crescent (this is an interpretation that I support because > all the images I've seen show a band of black at the top edge of the > stiffened crescent and side views like this > http://www.bergercollection.org/artwork_detail.php?i=37 also show the > veil attached at the top of the crescent piece) I agree that the front edge of the black hood lays just over the back edge of the crescent, but if you look at Mary I's portrait medal, you'll see that that edge of the hood is a band, to which is attached a bag covering the back of the head and a separate flat tongue-shaped fall. http://www.marileecody.com/mary1medal.jpg You can see what is probably a similar construction in those hoods that appear in profile in Jane Malcolm-Davies's useful online effigies database, for example http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/browse/view.asp?id=73 http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/browse/view.asp?id=92 and on Antoinette de Fontette, whose effigy is image 436 on page 221 of my edition of Boucher's _20,000 Years of Fashion_. The same shape appears in every profile image I have found so far, from 1530 on. In every case, the fall is a flat tube that emerges from the crown of the head, not a round one whose slanted top circumference circles the back of the head. Compare the three images linked above to Mikhaila and Malcolm-Davies's reconstruction at http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/images/C16th/Elizhood2005.jpg Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 12:59:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHxndR026792 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:59:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACHxj7u008142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:59:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACHxIg6091625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:59:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHxEaa010221; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:59:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACHx4Ct009959 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:59:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2006111212585802129 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:58 -0500 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACHwom3018756 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45576111.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:59:49 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6c4ae8b6-7e32-4805-8d4e-7c30e821e066 Status: RO Rutgers/Mason Gross has an excellent program. They do a good job of helping to place their graduates and have an on-going internship placement with Saturday Night Live. http://catalogs.rutgers.edu/generated/mgsa/pg5887.html Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 10:24 AM To: Historical Costume Cc: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] Colleges for studying costuming and fashion Has anyone come across any online sites that list colleges/universities that give degrees in fashion and/or MFAs in costume design or technology? I want to share them with my students. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 13:19:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACIJ70v027341 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:19:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACIInTY008534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:18:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACIGQhw094951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:16:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACIGIoc025852; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:16:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACIFkgU025376 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:16:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.73.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.73] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GjJru-0000aj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:15:46 -0500 Message-ID: <45577244.50307@faucet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:13:08 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review References: <000001c7046f$dce3b520$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4557658A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:19:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 65e94f63-eb41-436d-bb51-10fd23a49b97 Status: RO Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > I don't know about the authenticity aspect, I meant the pattern came out > nicely, fit well, looked good. Sorry. No need to apologize. I think they are successful in the ways that you mention, but not as accurate as I would like. I've been researching French hoods rather intensively lately, and was surprised by the ones in The Tudor Tailor. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 13:47:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACIlOof028114 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:47:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACIlKWN029720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:47:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACIkopx000101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACIkZp0054474; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:46:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com (web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.97.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACIkCIp054040 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 11:46:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jauncourt@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 72097 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2006 18:46:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bLDg87rcuNgF1U0r9KVA9GhWrbrOqdaRp/jtYQS0Cu2OznC6ipv9Wi1epgcVRZw4MvQT65SZ1KDaR6IPFJhUXXpyiyavhOMXXJiEPbgxBOSDk/7lMwh/WGprHcX6wwyILOFWrPvpevRFV0ZX6OWRnqHbgVXEsSpnZfB5OlkNBhs= ; Message-ID: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.244.18.156] by web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:46:07 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 10:46:07 -0800 (PST) From: Branwyn Maura To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kACIkCIp054040 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45576C38.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:47:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 706469cc-6ce7-43bf-91f2-752d2679f174 Status: RO Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... Marg. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 14:07:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJ71Mv028871 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:07:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACJ6tpi012923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:07:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACJ6ZRJ002906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:06:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJ6CNH072460; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:06:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.225.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJ5Y0j071861 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:05:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara.francesca@gmail.com) Received: from cheslaptop (cpe-76-185-44-97.tx.res.rr.com[76.185.44.97]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) with SMTP id <20061112190528b13001a6hbe>; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:05:28 +0000 Message-ID: <231901c7068d$8c02d620$070ba8c0@CHESLAPTOP> From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4554E36E.9050809@kabelfoon.nl> <41523.65.117.156.5.1163196037.squirrel@webmail.io.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1860 leather gloves Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:04:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455770CF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:07:01 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2a0f3202-85f1-40aa-bf05-636a2d488a59 Status: RO Hope these help ... http://members.tripod.com/ShootingStarEnt/gloves.html http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=SMT.search&searchCriteria=glove http://www.davidrumsey.com/amico/amico9107717-17852.html http://www.bopcris.ac.uk/bop1700/browse/674.html http://www.costumelibrary.com/ www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk/gloves1.htm http://www.oxonart.org/imagine/upload/Gloves(1).jpg http://www.vandaimages.com/results.asp?cat1=Gloves&X8=17-03 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1860 leather gloves > There is a Dutch website that has a few ... let me look for the url > when I get home tonight. :) > > Chiara > > > On Fri, November 10, 2006 2:39 pm, Deredere Galbraith said: >> Hi, >> >> I am looking for pictures of leather ladies gloves from around 1860. >> I tried to find the on the Internet but I can't seem to find any. >> >> Greetings, >> Deredere >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 14:28:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJSWWZ029573 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:28:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACJSQoD012183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:28:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACJQDR9005931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:26:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJPmfT092354; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:26:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJPBWe091705 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:25:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep44.mail.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061112192505.ZQAF6749.fep30.mail.dk@fep44.mail.dk> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:25:05 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.8]) by fep44.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061112192504.BWCY11319.fep44.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:25:04 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c70690$49ee26b0$0814a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1047.67.174.246.110.1163281796.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net><20061112130027.22647.qmail@web33313.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7.0.1.0.2.20061112131419.033634a0@suziclarke.co.uk><002d01c70668$b7fb1780$b86ea450@CPQ21932199711> <7.0.1.0.2.20061112173422.03316d68@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:25:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep44.mail.dk from [80.161.20.8] at Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:25:02 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455775DA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:28:32 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2acbe001-bf6b-431f-b474-f87489f630e1 Status: RO Hi Suzi, Thanks. yes i overlooked that dress with the collar. I guess its because i thoaght it was a later fashion. I never imagined this style of dress with a large pannier like the painting. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type > At 14:42 12/11/2006, you wrote: >>Hi, >>This is excactly what there are not. No patterns of such a dress. >>Because the dress only consist of one skirt, i wonder how the skirt would >>be attached to the bodice. >>Could it be that the whole front skirt was put to some tape ties, where it >>would be attached to the back of the skirt at the middle of the bodice, >>and then the pointed bodice would be pinned in the front over the skirt? >>What i would be very interrested in was how the cut would have ben like in >>the back, perhaps the fourreau style or the mantua style with sewn down >>pleats? >>It is strange that all costume historians leaved this type out, because it >>surely was very popular, also in Denmark. >>Besides its not as much fabric consuming as a francaise is or anglaise for >>that matter, because it only has one skirt. >>Bjarne > > > > There are three dresses with separate bodices, and one with an en fourreau > back, all with patterns and detailed drawings of front and back, in > "Patterns of Fashion 1660-1860", by Janet Arnold. One even has a zig-zag > style collar, similar to the one you are looking at Bjarne. I've made this > dress pattern up and it works really well. In fact I've made all of them, > and providing you only use the pattern pieces as a guide (one back piece > is really peculiar) they work beautifully. (Many of the dresses on this > site are of this style. http://www.minuetcompany.org/gallery.html I made a > number of outfits for this group, bioh men and women.) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 14:37:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJbAjw029906 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:37:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACJb70t018981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:37:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACJai5Q007460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:36:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJaImj002528; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:36:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJZjSb001967 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:36:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061112193540.AXP6749.fep30.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:35:40 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.8]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061112193540.BWLZ18380.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:35:40 +0100 Message-ID: <002e01c70691$c5da9690$0814a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.1.6.2.20061112103331.00bc0dc0@pop8.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress Type Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:35:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.161.20.8] at Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:35:39 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455777E3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:37:10 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1441e6ae-bcf2-4688-9140-21cd86401d5b Status: RO I think it is so in this case with the picture, that the dresses dont have matching petticoats. You clearly see that in the lady right for the red dress. Also in the pictures i have of street life in Copenhagen. But the example of Nancy Bradfields page 9 was excactly how i imagined they would have made these dresses. Thanks for guiding me into the right direction! I guess it also was because i only looked for big pannier dresses, wich there are none of. Many thanks Dawn. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Luckham" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: [h-cost] Dress Type > Historic Fashion in Detail shows a "rose red ground with trails of white > flowers" with "a pleated English back (altered in 1760's) the silk is 1740 > (p 88). As it is Fashion in Detail I don't know what the front of the > gown is like. There is a mantua 1750 (p90) that may look something like > these gowns from the distance the painting puts the subjects. > > Nancy Bradfield's Costume in Detail shows several open robes with this > back dated as early as 1730. To look like the ladies in the painting, > they would need to be wearing matching (as opposed to contrasting) > petticoats. There is one (p5) that although it is an open robe, the > skirts are pleated all the way around to centre front which would give the > look of the same colour all the way around. Page 9 shows a closed robe > c.1740-50 which looks like these gowns. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 14:39:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJdc9b030012 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:39:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACJdYq8020729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:39:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACJdFgx007807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:39:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJcp6N004887; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:39:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJcI2x004321 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:38:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061112193812.DIC6749.fep30.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:38:12 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.8]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061112193812.BWSQ13466.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:38:12 +0100 Message-ID: <003e01c70692$20d59a90$0814a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:38:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.161.20.8] at Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:38:11 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dress types X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45577876.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:39:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3a95767c-affb-4cfc-892d-b04c895d7b5f Status: RO Many thanks for all your suggestions and debate of the closed robe type. Gives me blod on the teeth to try out some day! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 14:59:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJxQwd030623 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:59:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACJxLKn004276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:59:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACJwoXI010852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJwQPo024736; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from linda-2.paradise.net.nz (linda-2.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACJvrtj024140 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:58:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (tclsnelb1-src-1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.172]) by linda-2.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0J8M005NNPU0QZ@linda-2.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:56:24 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (202-78-152-208.cable.telstraclear.net [202.78.152.208]) by smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16499A4F1DB for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:55:12 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:55:08 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? In-reply-to: <20061112153354.34966.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <45575FFC.9010605@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) References: <20061112153354.34966.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45577D19.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:59:26 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 72f4a91c-c47b-43bb-a632-703dbb9f435f Status: RO Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: > By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any historical evidence of this kind of dress: > http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean the gores in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody know? > I've seen it more than twice in SCA wear, but I've never seen any evidence hat it's a period style. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 15:06:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACK6Wpw030839 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:06:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACK6SUB009783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:06:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACK5dH9011928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:05:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACK5Eq8031977; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:05:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACK4p6j031478 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:05:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9IARJYJQ89SCFHC@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:03:52 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9IASKNSYC9TGXTJ@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:04:41 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:04:41 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? In-reply-to: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <45577E59.1060901@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45577EC4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:06:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: dcbcfe44-653d-4e98-9ef8-46785a3ecb20 Status: RO Branwyn Maura wrote: >Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). > >It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... > > Definitely a matter of taste... I hate it and wish it would go away :-) -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 15:17:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACKHgnV031099 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:17:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACKHcHV018323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:17:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACKFUi8013220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:15:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACKF0C4042175; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:15:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (88.d2.1343.static.theplanet.com [67.19.210.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACKEQia041635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:14:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GjLjE-0004zw-9b; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:14:56 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:14:56 -0500 Message-ID: <20061112151456.earovg1hlshs040k@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:14:56 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45578162.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:17:42 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e921606b-2c45-4ef2-b9da-2e5030d47e71 Status: RO Quoting Branwyn Maura : > Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the > early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of > tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not > really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of > this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). > > It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... > Oh, yeah. I'm with you on this one. I saw a nice gown once with a reversable brocade done like this -- it was very nice. susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 16:08:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACL8B0r032734 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:08:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACL85Et027672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:08:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACL7SxL027636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:07:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACL7F2B000861; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:07:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACL7BDo000764 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:07:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AB7A1E1E044C; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:00:42 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] dress type Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:07:21 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c7069e$8b750550$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <002d01c70668$b7fb1780$b86ea450@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kACL7BDo000764 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45578D35.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:08:11 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6e0dcb43-2f72-4e52-a7c5-b663aae66c61 Status: RO For what it's worth, my Lucy Barton "Historic Costume for the Stage" says, in the Early Georgian section, 1700-1750, "Costume (could consist) of but one dress or of a gown over bodice and petticoat..." and "Gowns open over under bodices might be laced across or left open to show ruffles or lace. Over gowns were usually open in front; dresses worn without gowns were as often laced up the back." Maybe these are over gowns, worn over a back laced dress. The shape of the body would be achieved by the laced under dress and the over gown was one piece, worn over the other layer, to change the look of the outfit Sharon C.. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:42 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type Hi, This is excactly what there are not. No patterns of such a dress. Because the dress only consist of one skirt, i wonder how the skirt would be attached to the bodice. Could it be that the whole front skirt was put to some tape ties, where it would be attached to the back of the skirt at the middle of the bodice, and then the pointed bodice would be pinned in the front over the skirt? What i would be very interrested in was how the cut would have ben like in the back, perhaps the fourreau style or the mantua style with sewn down pleats? It is strange that all costume historians leaved this type out, because it surely was very popular, also in Denmark. Besides its not as much fabric consuming as a francaise is or anglaise for that matter, because it only has one skirt. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress type > At 13:00 12/11/2006, you wrote: >>I have seen this dress. In the original movie, The >>King And I, Anna is wearing one during the State >>Dinner seen when she is dancung with Yul Brenner. >> >>--- Diana Habra wrote: >> >> > >> > > I have finally found a propper picture to show. >> > This is a painting of the >> > > view over the thames. Its from the mid century. >> > You can clearly see that >> > > the >> > > ladies dresses dont have the sack backed trains in >> > the back. I have seen >> > > this type of dress in many danish paintings two, >> > yeat this type of dress >> > > is >> > > never spoken of in any history books. >> > > So i ask you! >> > > Please take a look at this painting wich i >> > uploaded, it is cropped just to >> > > show the persons, and its ben magnified a lot, so >> > its not the best >> > > quality. >> > > What is this dress called? Is it bodice and skirt, >> > or is the skirt >> > > attached >> > > to the bodice? >> > > I am so curious to hear what you think! >> > > >> > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/thames.htm >> > >> > To me it looks like a version of the "Anglaise" >> > style dress. Or am I >> > missing something? >> > >> > If they are Anglaise dresses, then the skirt is >> > attached to the bodice, >> > they close in the front with small straight pins, >> > and the bottom of the >> > bodice comes to a point in the front and back. The >> > skirt is also pleated >> > to the bodice all the way around. >> > >> > Hope that helps! > > This is taken from a painting by Canaletto in 1747. It's one of his London > from the Thames paintings. Here is the full painting. > > http://www.abcgallery.com/C/canaletto/canaletto31.html (I hope). > > Are there dresses like this in "Fitting and Proper", or "Costume > Close-up", or "Costume in Detail", or "Historic Fashion in Detail"? (the > 18th century one.) I'm away from my books and can't check right now. > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 16:14:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACLEagi000472 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:14:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACLEWDK011384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:14:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACLCmYW028819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:12:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACLCkaC005541; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:12:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACLChQQ005436 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:12:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 23697 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2006 21:12:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=li9dioSAOHAQl9mz6CGnya04qD9ibKlDRQXRGB23q7SKkwUDkBXBSNle+kTbLMdWhzzPI1A6cKum6sGQek+eWte36m+e8IUxY1cmpEzgMDyNZ+yghJsD6Mzek4MUqtEGJxkWljV1FSvAb+q8oyDPmSNlElKWNkhU9a3K7LWuy5w= ; Message-ID: <20061112211238.23695.qmail@web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37506.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:12:38 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:12:38 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20061112151456.earovg1hlshs040k@www.goldsword.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45578EB8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:14:36 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2b4da6ab-a15b-4c85-b3a6-56af9c2bda9a Status: RO "Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the > early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of > tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not > really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of > this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure)." Sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm looking for an evidence proving that CONTRASTING gores were used - thanks for reminding:-) --------------------------------- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 16:19:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACLJifm000624 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:19:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kACLJeIO002910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:19:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kACLG3K5029215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:16:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACLG2VR008188; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:16:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACLFxdv008100 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:16:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m156.in-tch.com [216.166.191.156]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kACL3dG25370 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:03:39 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <000c01c706a0$ec2aa420$9cbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112153354.34966.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:24:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45578FEC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:19:44 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5bf02c32-e314-4c18-9a87-bc38c4a29128 Status: RO Gores themselves? Certainly, although not necessarily placed in the manner depicted. Gores made of a contrasting fabric? Not that I know of. I've seen this particular fashion error show up at an occasional SCA event, but not very often. I'm not sure of its point of origin, but I'm pretty darned sure that it wasn't in the middle ages! ;o) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zuzana Kraemerova" To: "h-costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:33 AM Subject: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any historical evidence of this kind of dress: > http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean the gores in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody know? > > Zuzana > > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 19:10:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0A6w5005656 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:10:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD0A23I013187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:10:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD09H4M060157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:09:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD09Dfx051132; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:09:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4a.socket.net [216.106.88.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD096gJ051019 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:09:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DA233372BE for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:09:05 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:09:15 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <45575FFC.9010605@paradise.net.nz> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4557B7DA.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:10:06 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d313222f-75e3-4e95-b014-7ebfc3526bed Status: RO 1. It has modern princess seams. 2. the inner sleeve should not be connected to the outer dress. 3. (minor) laced incorrectly. 4. Has contrasting bias at the hem. Now for the gores. There are a rare few mid 1400s "Italian" frescos that have what appears to be different colored gores in the dress but not all the way to the waist. they could be different colored fabric sewn in or it could be dags. The only one that I remember going close to the waist was not gores but dags, again "Italian". The "German" dresses that I have seen with what appears to be a gore of a different colour is actually a seam opening/slit and it is on the side. One example that has been debated of dags vs. gores is the scene of St. Mary's birth, the white and red dress. (which I do not have the URL saved to show you) but this dress also has a red front panel. Is the white a coat w/dags held by gold ties onto a red dress or is the red panel a part of the white, w/red gores? It is left to your interpretation of the fresco. The wearer of the dress in question is a patron so that increases the dress as having existed. De -----Original Message----- Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: > By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any historical evidence of this kind of dress: > http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean the gores in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody know? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 19:14:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0EhOe005832 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:14:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD0EeZ4021519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:14:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD0D5Od060777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0D3t5054506; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kACLI5wd010034 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:18:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AE082D40049A; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:11:36 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:18:16 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01c706a0$11aa83b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <45577244.50307@faucet.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4557B8F0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:14:43 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7005580d-1cc2-40b7-aeac-198b19682456 Status: RO >From a purely practical point of view, the piece around the back of the neck, forming a circle around the head, made the hood fit extremely well. I wore mine outside, in wind, without any fasteners, bobby pins, etc. It just sat on my head and I had no problems with it wanting to come off. It is a good design for costume purposes. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:13 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: > I don't know about the authenticity aspect, I meant the pattern came out > nicely, fit well, looked good. Sorry. No need to apologize. I think they are successful in the ways that you mention, but not as accurate as I would like. I've been researching French hoods rather intensively lately, and was surprised by the ones in The Tudor Tailor. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 19:15:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0FIvw005853 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:15:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD0FEm9006583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:15:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD0DWmb060900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:13:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0DUBZ054997; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp109.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp109.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.225.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACLhmQI031349 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:43:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 84536 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2006 21:43:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=mKbzBZrYJJqT6yo1RNlMWjAeRQpa1ZCZ0YpXuvSmEed/qLla8du6/EQQbn7ZJMGNHvl94llwmIy0KkEgZHUX/0fVI1Lc8hmi20h46w4W0hcggIxtCu+AowUeIknKVD8u/JetoAmGPMOCg4LB6rI2/gq7Nrj6CzxkQ3cV0lch/S0= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?74.118.28.236?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@74.118.28.236 with plain) by smtp109.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Nov 2006 21:43:43 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: s2oadagVM1lpXZU9HwvIMI8.3mLU7kQITc7ith.f9joiYOJHVcTFW6Cf2_1JBxbCgJOFew3LFBhIfL0m4mSCMN_olFfssw4QRWrtCnQg7XgFqOtWFswv7A-- Message-ID: <45579599.9070302@rogers.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:43:53 -0500 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? References: <20061112153354.34966.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45575FFC.9010605@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <45575FFC.9010605@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=26% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4557B912.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:15:18 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 86e02fb9-fe4a-4e02-ba67-e076006873ae Status: RO Greetings-- Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: >> By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any >> historical evidence of this kind of dress: >> http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean the >> gores in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody know? >> > > I've seen it more than twice in SCA wear, but I've never seen any > evidence hat it's a period style. > It's not so much the gores--it's the gores in contrasting fabric. Were the gores in the same fabric as the main body, the cut isn't half bad, although I'm not sure about ten separate inserted gores. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 19:18:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0InuW005971 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:18:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD0IklX009145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:18:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD0H11i061505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:17:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0Gxsh058305; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:17:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0GuUp058177 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:16:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9IJJV8LI89SCOS4@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:15:45 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9IJKW3AIA9THHDU@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:16:35 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:16:35 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? In-reply-to: <45579599.9070302@rogers.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4557B963.8050302@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <20061112153354.34966.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <45575FFC.9010605@paradise.net.nz> <45579599.9070302@rogers.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4557B9E6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:18:49 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9d613b6d-5370-4511-99a3-0b657ec3a759 Status: RO Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > Greetings-- > > Adele de Maisieres wrote: > >> Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: >> >>> By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any >>> historical evidence of this kind of dress: >>> http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean >>> the gores in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody >>> know? >>> >> >> >> I've seen it more than twice in SCA wear, but I've never seen any >> evidence hat it's a period style. >> > It's not so much the gores--it's the gores in contrasting fabric. > Were the gores in the same fabric as the main body, the cut isn't half > bad, although I'm not sure about ten separate inserted gores. Sorry, that was what I meant. Gores per se were definitely used in Medieval clothing-- it's the contrasting fabric that I've seen no evidence for. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 19:21:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0LClE006055 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:21:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD0L8wC025609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:21:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD0Jeo8061966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:19:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0Jd0V060527; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:19:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0JXln060436 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:19:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9IJM2ORMO9SCOS4@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:17:32 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9IJN3JIHS9THG3L@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:18:22 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:18:21 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? In-reply-to: <20061112230041.25325.qmail@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4557B9CD.90602@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <20061112230041.25325.qmail@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4557BA74.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:21:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ddbd8383-3b56-4ceb-86d5-066b389d3f8d Status: RO Voncile W. Dudley wrote: >Aren't gores the ones that start at the waist and godets the ones that start somewhere around the thigh? Anyone know the difference, if any? > > Well, SCA-types tend to call them gores and modern dressmakers tend to call them godets and use "gore" to refer to a trapezoidal panel. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 20:41:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD1fUE7008100 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:41:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD1fPeD010692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:41:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD1eWgb072962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:40:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD1eQA2028156; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:40:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD1eJj2028039 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:40:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m167.in-tch.com [216.166.191.167]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAD1S1G21379 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:28:02 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:35:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4557CD45.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:41:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: eabd48c8-6d15-4a01-b26c-dd9dfc23aecf Status: RO Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was also pretty taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, huh? ;oD --sue in montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Branwyn Maura" To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). > > It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... > > Marg. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 21:22:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2MRlp009152 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:22:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD2MNuZ004591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:22:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD2JsFq078871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:19:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2Jq9a062170; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:19:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.200.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2JnYT062004 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:19:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006111302194301200oss3pe>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:19:43 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:19:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4557D6DF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:22:27 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2ba8cdc2-e785-4b01-a972-dcc24efb6801 Status: RO How much is 350 pounds? On Nov 12, 2006, at 2:35 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the > authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was also > pretty > taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). > I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, huh? > ;oD > --sue in montana > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Branwyn Maura" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > >> Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the >> early > middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but > the > use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable > for > this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th > century, but I'm not sure). >> >> It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... >> >> Marg. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 21:29:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2TrKv009302 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:29:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD2TnrF011563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:29:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD2TDoE080301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:29:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2TBZ1070092; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (88.d2.1343.static.theplanet.com [67.19.210.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2T82H070042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:29:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GjRZD-0004PB-D7; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:28:59 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:28:59 -0500 Message-ID: <20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:28:59 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4557D89D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:29:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 78b8172d-a463-4253-b70c-81e35095aa03 Status: RO Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > How much is 350 pounds? $700 USD -- approximately susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 21:35:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2Z0iw009445 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:35:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD2Yurq015021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:34:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD2YY7T081104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:34:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2YWP6074663; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:34:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2YSCu074595 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:34:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) id <01M9IODN7ZXC9SCOS4@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:33:31 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #31339) with ESMTP id <01M9IOEO3RXQ9TH334@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:34:20 +1300 (NEW ZEALAND DAYLIGHT TIME) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:34:20 +1300 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4557D9AC.7090006@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4557D9D0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:35:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9cc63300-e634-4f6e-8d5d-0e036dea6619 Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > How much is 350 pounds? > 1000 New Zealand dollars. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 21:44:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2hwN9009617 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:44:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD2hsXN022486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:43:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD2hMxP082416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:43:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2hHAW082242; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:43:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from misc.com (misc.com [130.94.190.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2hEvo082180 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:43:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from theresa@misc.com) Received: (qmail 57729 invoked by uid 16115); 13 Nov 2006 02:43:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.201]) ([69.107.143.164]) (envelope-sender ) by 130.94.190.243 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 13 Nov 2006 02:43:14 -0000 Message-ID: <4557DBC2.1090004@misc.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 18:43:14 -0800 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Macintosh/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4557DBEA.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:43:58 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5b025fa0-846f-4e01-bcad-17d42bd2a241 Status: RO Using my handy-dandy converter: http://www.xe.net/ucc/ Roughly 669 buckolas!!! (Too bad it can't be phantasy-bucks for phantasy-garb!!) Theresa Eacker > > How much is 350 pounds? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 21:51:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2pZde009733 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:51:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD2pVZS021993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:51:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD2p7cQ083456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:51:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD2p2Le089647; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:51:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.225.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAD2ovjd089478 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:51:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 23933 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2006 02:50:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ON1hYThiSGCYN+yASDFRaeGgGsdQSZcDIQrsLnltYBGxv7rc+RPmVmJpoJ41aZIvAuRsuKtWBd1jY5woZJFIQH8OdB22twuVeE/WcsF6EbIipSNlcZPWswGF6+fUkIU+NgcGVDbHTxPUKnidH7dz1BInBKjxFWd2Mnpl/3D5HI4= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?74.118.28.236?) (nicolaa@rogers.com@74.118.28.236 with plain) by smtp108.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2006 02:50:52 -0000 Message-ID: <4557DD96.30306@rogers.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:51:02 -0500 From: Susan Carroll-Clark User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? References: <20061112230041.25325.qmail@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4557B9CD.90602@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4557B9CD.90602@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4557DDB3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:51:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a0abbb3a-3560-4e6c-bfd9-11f9aabe229c Status: RO Greetings-- Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Voncile W. Dudley wrote: > >> Aren't gores the ones that start at the waist and godets the ones >> that start somewhere around the thigh? Anyone know the difference, >> if any? >> >> > Well, SCA-types tend to call them gores and modern dressmakers tend to > call them godets and use "gore" to refer to a trapezoidal panel. > I'm guessing we don't really know what they called the suckers in the Middle Ages :-) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 22:05:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD356h5009933 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:05:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD353OC012022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:05:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD34gUa085515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:04:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD34aTd002649; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:04:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAD34XnA002490 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:04:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 75316 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 03:04:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=UOQjZ4JKdgqzoHPPBekF+LFsgFI+zt+hV3rBgXTj/BmEWVAA0YIpFyYNLJT1McrFyb60EigrWvD4k85Cs1j3vWEZPT2a5nVZbeiQhvJIHMdNM0SXCRmU8+QqM6Sreq+g+J7rq1Vzubxk/Jvq1oWgU2w6Ouyvyz7gKCbVZX8SQRw=; X-YMail-OSG: lRG5ivMVM1mHYClQjw0vmHiJJvoc0DpqMSbzSw0IH970uoluB4lH8kEB9TXEnjw.NQ-- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:04:27 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:04:27 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <45576E09.30601@faucet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <599552.75000.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] French hoods (was Tudor Tailor -- another review) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4557E0DF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:05:06 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 83538490-ec96-4e03-bde7-c5c543e98d0d Status: RO Hi Melanie, After I thought I had it figured out, and made my French hood similar to the one in the Tudor Tailor (as I wanted one before the style shown in the Mary Tudor coin), I found this image in a book on illumination just a couple of weeks later. http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1530/BathshebaHead1.html http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1530/BathshebaHead2.html from this original http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1530/Bathsheba.html It shows clearly the style you mention, which threw out the lovely French hood I had just finished. http://www.kimiko1.com/dressdiaries/1545FrenchHood/index.html But don't worry, I will be making one in the new, improved style. I would love to see yours when you are done. Kimiko French hood images http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/ Melanie Schuessler wrote: The same shape appears in every profile image I have found so far, from 1530 on. In every case, the fall is a flat tube that emerges from the crown of the head, not a round one whose slanted top circumference circles the back of the head. Compare the three images linked above to Mikhaila and Malcolm-Davies's reconstruction at http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/images/C16th/Elizhood2005.jpg Melanie Schuessler --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 22:07:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD37YIE009977 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:07:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD37Mll013321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:07:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD36xOg085994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:07:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD36vo1005039; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:06:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.138]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAD36qQx004891 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:06:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 88807 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 03:06:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=Gg8RGUwSD2I4Zf7lzWkvNGVmUhbP7hf6H6cRpL8ypY0G0bwkHWbDH1w/sZt2rP0GwTJH04zciiqZbAdtUMVKvPSq7lPe97tkNwf6DeYsBsk9doZk5qld6XTIbVQy9Kzt54Dngfoqk3c6pvsG8mTs9EHRVtE7ZRW0ADxmxYX1H5E=; X-YMail-OSG: 7Q_CkMoVM1k.exTqZmtCsgSgVIs7qb64h49wmXmvX_LFkP6BppBqTMhuq6tifKk3Ty4f0H0DOJEZoN_2bU1eCWhO9FpGWJtJrWUwshjUbWCCHx4kRATvB_DuWB8Uf_MaDIafvqhfiIZg42s- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:06:47 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 19:06:47 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000d01c706a0$11aa83b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <589394.88624.qm@web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4557E16A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:07:34 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 861a6e0c-b26d-435a-9fa8-675aa2fbec21 Status: RO Hi Sharon, I agree. For costuming purposes, mine sat just fine on my head without any fasteners, until a really strong gust lifted it up. But it went back on with minimal adjusting. I loved how it works, but I will be adding in a chin strap soon since I won't have the new one made before my next event. Kimiko "Sharon at Collierfam.com" wrote: >From a purely practical point of view, the piece around the back of the neck, forming a circle around the head, made the hood fit extremely well. I wore mine outside, in wind, without any fasteners, bobby pins, etc. It just sat on my head and I had no problems with it wanting to come off. It is a good design for costume purposes. --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 22:15:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3Fxt8010114 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:15:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD3FtAo003249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:15:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD3DrgJ087429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3DpGL012213; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:13:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc15.comcast.net (sccrmhc15.comcast.net [63.240.77.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3DmLU012050 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:13:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc15) with SMTP id <2006111303134301500pr1i0e>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 03:13:43 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> <20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:13:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4557E36B.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:15:59 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8f0639cc-0597-4640-bc57-b90209a2db0a Status: RO I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those prices. On Nov 12, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > >> How much is 350 pounds? > > $700 USD -- approximately > > susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 22:28:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3Srmk010329 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:28:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD3SocG020985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:28:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD3SLaY091255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:28:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3S6r9026831; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:28:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (88.d2.1343.static.theplanet.com [67.19.210.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3RkR4026563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:27:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GjSTy-00042U-AS; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:27:38 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:27:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:27:38 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> <20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4557E672.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:28:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 24468c1c-8454-4151-ab3b-74db1bab25ea Status: RO Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those > prices. Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 22:29:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3Tcfw010334 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:29:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD3TUia010568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:29:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD3TBle091606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:29:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3TBrH027954; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD3T66x027860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:29:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-213-108-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.213.108]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAD3T3u4015464 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:29:04 +1100 Message-ID: <00e801c706d3$dd0d2200$6cd5f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion><20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:29:00 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4557E69A.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:29:33 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 28b1a09d-4936-45ad-bcff-b0101d349dac Status: RO Well, except that in reality what costs $1 in the USA costs £1 in the UK. So from the UK seller's point of view it would be a more accurate reflection of their how much they are earning (in terms of paying the bills, keeping food on the table etc.) if you just change the dollar symbol to a pounds symbol. Now change your estimate to $350 (or even better look at more local websites) and see if it's still worth it. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? >I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those >prices. > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : >> >>> How much is 350 pounds? >> >> $700 USD -- approximately >> >> susan >> ----- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 23:19:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD4JcWj011563 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:19:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD4JNuU029662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:19:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD0DnGV060982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:13:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD0DnMY055339; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:13:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kACN0lJC094876 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 16:00:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 25327 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Nov 2006 23:00:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BXUMhJPwoAyCT7+5g0ucVmNr4+P3rMm4qZHFoiHzyM0YorSavsstgqqWvUTfV9jI2/INfgngKhIjTaOav/EJIk2lBLEsPXSfrv4Rnp9etw05HnPIcQq14ksv3ff21H2wwT9tqb4DXq3jkTbgpA021ZE5HRNYSRKDVGP5DILRGzM= ; Message-ID: <20061112230041.25325.qmail@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:00:41 PST Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:00:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <45577E59.1060901@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4557F24B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:19:38 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b96f7004-75db-4e30-ab36-93a7e4b7da62 Status: RO Aren't gores the ones that start at the waist and godets the ones that start somewhere around the thigh? Anyone know the difference, if any? Lady Von Adele de Maisieres wrote: Branwyn Maura wrote: >Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). > >It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... > > Definitely a matter of taste... I hate it and wish it would go away :-) -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 23:19:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD4JcWl011563 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:19:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD4JNuW029662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:19:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD09aQg060216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:09:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD09Y1g051422; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:09:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail4.tpgi.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD09S20051334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 17:09:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-213-108-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.213.108]) by mail4.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAD09QKk022105 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:09:27 +1100 Message-ID: <003b01c706b7$f9cfde80$6cd5f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112153354.34966.qmail@web37504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:09:22 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4557F24B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:19:44 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a8e5c833-d5ea-4b8d-9f7d-84efc04cb162 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zuzana Kraemerova" To: "h-costume" Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:33 AM Subject: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any > historical evidence of this kind of dress: > http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean the gores > in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody know? > > Zuzana > > Other people have commented on the lack of evidence for contrasting gores, I'm just going to deal with the usual argument for why it 'might' be period. A lot of people who like this style argue that if people had been short on fabric they would have had to use another fabric for the gores, while this is plausible the concept of therefore making a feature of your lack of fabric doesn't seem to fit the medieval mindset (it would be an admission that I'm too poor to buy enough fabric for one dress, not hey look at me I'm so cool and different) . If you ran out of fabric you may have to get a new piece from a different dye lot which is a slightly different colour but it would be the sort of contrast that isn't readily obvious until you look closely. I can't provide a medieval example but I have seen a photo of a mid 19th century dress which has evidence of piecing done in a very similar print but not matching. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 12 23:35:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD4ZZK6011898 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:35:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD4ZWJe004858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:35:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD4Z4Vh002947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:35:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD4Z2Ex084922; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:35:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [216.148.227.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD4YvCS084782 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:34:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20061113043452m13004oshle>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:34:52 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com> References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> <20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> <20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <06960d7af2d4fdbf1e90f5fe6ad6ce12@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 21:34:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4557F614.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:35:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 0cb8bac4-b7c3-442f-a8a9-62e8b9696d9f Status: RO Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a gown? On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > >> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at >> those >> prices. > > Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! > > susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 00:11:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD5BmDA012628 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:11:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD5Bibw002687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:11:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD58lhh007574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:08:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD58iiM012831; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:08:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [216.148.227.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD58c4K012700 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:08:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20061113050832m13004p5rne>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:08:32 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> Message-Id: <3B845295-377D-478B-942A-A167F50F373D@comcast.net> From: Lauren Walker Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:08:42 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4557FE90.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:11:48 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 95d27d20-3c17-405d-8f51-af5962e4ce66 Status: RO About 1/6 of a ton. ;-) sorry, couldn't resist. On Nov 12, 2006, at 9:19 PM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > How much is 350 pounds? > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 2:35 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the >> authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was >> also pretty >> taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). >> I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, >> huh? ;oD >> --sue in montana >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Branwyn Maura" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM >> Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? >> >> >>> Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from >>> the early >> middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), >> but the >> use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really >> documentable for >> this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th >> century, but I'm not sure). >>> >>> It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* >>> documentable... >>> >>> Marg. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 00:40:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD5eUWk013062 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:40:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD5eRw5028920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:40:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD5dXQ9011501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:39:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD5dUEa035677; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:39:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD5dQQR035628 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:39:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m217.in-tch.com [216.166.191.217]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAD5R9G10713 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:27:09 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001a01c706e7$42e58aa0$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion><20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> <00e801c706d3$dd0d2200$6cd5f5dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:47:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4558054B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:40:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f119e5dc-0c7d-48db-a574-816bdf253f7b Status: RO Personally, I wouldn't touch it if it were mailed to me, free. And sure not for several hundred dollars. I've seen some seriously tacky cr@p aimed at the non-sewing SCA crowd (and, I assume at other non-sewing reenactors/hobbyists of relatively same time frame and required authenticity level), and that particular gown's right in there with the "please, god, make it go away" stuff.... IMHO, of course. --Sue, needing to go fondle some of her wool flannels just to take the taint away ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Well, except that in reality what costs $1 in the USA costs £1 in the UK. So > from the UK seller's point of view it would be a more accurate reflection of > their how much they are earning (in terms of paying the bills, keeping food > on the table etc.) if you just change the dollar symbol to a pounds symbol. > Now change your estimate to $350 (or even better look at more local > websites) and see if it's still worth it. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:13 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > > >I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those > >prices. > > > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > > >> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > >> > >>> How much is 350 pounds? > >> > >> $700 USD -- approximately > >> > >> susan > >> ----- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 00:43:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD5hN8Q013118 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:43:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD5hJl9023049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:43:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD5gwfQ011879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:42:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD5gv13038282; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:42:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD5gtWL038246 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:42:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m217.in-tch.com [216.166.191.217]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAD5UcG11395 for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:30:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002101c706e7$bf5e7880$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion><20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com><20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com> <06960d7af2d4fdbf1e90f5fe6ad6ce12@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:51:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455805F7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:43:23 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 244b6106-4e37-4517-abf6-de15a1358db5 Status: RO With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a complete tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal with maps and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my sewing for fun. --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a gown? > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > > Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > > > >> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at > >> those > >> prices. > > > > Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! > > > > susan > > ----- > > Susan Farmer > > sfarmer@goldsword.com > > University of Tennessee > > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 01:53:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD6rqiT014438 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:53:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD6rmUH014503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:53:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD6rG2P021057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:53:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD6rC1h093198; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:53:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD6r7U0093121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:53:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-213-108-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.213.108]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAD6r45J029238 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:53:06 +1100 Message-ID: <000b01c706f0$5d4fd860$6cd5f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion><20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com><00e801c706d3$dd0d2200$6cd5f5dc@user4712b7d135> <001a01c706e7$42e58aa0$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:53:01 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558167C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:53:52 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 27653532-1f8e-4af1-a9b0-407470f157af Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Personally, I wouldn't touch it if it were mailed to me, free. And sure > not > for several hundred dollars. I've seen some seriously tacky cr@p aimed at > the non-sewing SCA crowd (and, I assume at other non-sewing > reenactors/hobbyists of relatively same time frame and required > authenticity > level), and that particular gown's right in there with the "please, god, > make it go away" stuff.... > IMHO, of course. > --Sue, needing to go fondle some of her wool flannels just to take the > taint > away ;o) > In defence of this company in particular the example we've been discussing is in their custom made section, so presumably it's a customer's design not their own. Their readymade stuff looks fairly good as does most of their custom made stuff, and they do describe the fantasy stuff as 'medieval inspired' or '15th century inspired' etc. http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/ Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 03:24:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD8OYEL009452 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 03:24:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD8OU3n005230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 03:24:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD8Neef035592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:23:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD8NaoM073504; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:23:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD8NWIJ073352 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:23:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 13 Nov 2006 08:23:26 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CACG4V0XUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACBS4sAAgkOKg Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1095 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GjX6E-000GuO-8r for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:23:26 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113081834.03377078@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:21:42 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? In-Reply-To: References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> <20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45582BBE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 03:24:33 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 98052bef-f068-4e61-b799-1fc551eb403c Status: RO At 03:13 13/11/2006, you wrote: >I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at >those prices. > >On Nov 12, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >>Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : >> >>>How much is 350 pounds? >> >>$700 USD -- approximately This is not an unusual price for a gown of this period, especially if it includes fabric. Prices here are very much higher that in the U.S. My American friends are often surprised at the prices I charge, and I am never without work. Incidentally, I believe this is one of her fantasy frocks, rather than an authentic one, but that is only a guess as I have never actually seen any of her clothes or accessories. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 03:27:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD8RLo5009663 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 03:27:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAD8RHIO007225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 03:27:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAD8QwNw036078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:26:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD8QvXT076591; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:26:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1a.socket.net [216.106.88.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAD8Qor9076490 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:26:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DF9EB38B2D for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:26:49 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:27:01 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <000b01c706f0$5d4fd860$6cd5f5dc@user4712b7d135> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45582C65.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 03:27:21 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 46dd64bb-8c64-4dd1-9932-cd528108225d Status: RO I found the dress in thier periods gallery under "The Medieval Age of Chivalry 1100 -1485. I have not found the wording "Medieval inspired" anywhere with this dress. Perhaps they have documentation for the coloured gores. I have seen at least two "Italian" dresses that look as if they have different colored gores from the rest of the dress but not in the style that is on the Chimera site. I have emailed them to inquire if they may have a source for the different colored gores. I found the Buckles and clasps. One needs to go to the haberdashery and up in the corner in the "search" will take you to the page. De ----- Original Message ----- In defence of this company in particular the example we've been discussing is in their custom made section, so presumably it's a customer's design not their own. Their readymade stuff looks fairly good as does most of their custom made stuff, and they do describe the fantasy stuff as 'medieval inspired' or '15th century inspired' etc. http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/ Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 08:10:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDAKUW020643 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:10:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADDAELa026007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:10:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADD9BaH083850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:09:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADD96LT036320; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:09:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADD8vnx036178 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:09:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.186.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.186] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GjbYW-0000hP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:08:57 -0500 Message-ID: <45587BF3.6060200@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:06:43 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review References: <000d01c706a0$11aa83b0$0200a8c0@bob3pc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45586EB6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:10:20 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8a4522a2-54c9-4b11-93fa-a695d89f7dd5 Status: RO Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: >>From a purely practical point of view, the piece around the back of the > neck, forming a circle around the head, made the hood fit extremely well. I > wore mine outside, in wind, without any fasteners, bobby pins, etc. It just > sat on my head and I had no problems with it wanting to come off. It is a > good design for costume purposes. Yes, I've seen it used for that as well in a Tudor play. If you don't have enough hair to do the anchoring hairstyle underneath, that's a good workaround. When I've worn mine (made based on my hypotheses and with the proper hairstyle underneath), it was like a rock. No movement whatsoever. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 08:25:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDPOVq021018 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:25:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADDPHFd005681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:25:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADDMqgI086189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:22:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDMoTA049552; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:22:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDMiE7049475 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:22:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.186.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.186] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Gjblr-0001CK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:22:43 -0500 Message-ID: <45587F35.30303@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:20:37 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] French hoods (was Tudor Tailor -- another review) References: <599552.75000.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558723D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:25:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 0d8e9910-8a5c-487a-9c1b-6152a743a004 Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > > After I thought I had it figured out, and made my French hood similar > to the one in the Tudor Tailor (as I wanted one before the style > shown in the Mary Tudor coin), I found this image in a book on > illumination just a couple of weeks later. > http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1530/BathshebaHead1.html Yes, this is another great one and is the earliest profile of the French hood that I've seen (earlier ones are of the transition style just before)--I just didn't know it was online anywhere. Danielle Nunn-Weinberg pointed it out to me. > the lovely > French hood I had just finished. > http://www.kimiko1.com/dressdiaries/1545FrenchHood/index.html But > don't worry, I will be making one in the new, improved style. It does look nice, and is a very good example of that construction. Perhaps you can use the front and just replace the back? >I would love to see yours when you are done. It's online, though you can't really see the back very well, at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/yellow.html (especially the second picture) Taking pictures of this made me appreciate why it's so hard to see the details of the backs of French hoods in non-profile paintings--black velvet (and black fabric in general) just doesn't reflect light very well! Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 08:46:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDkuah021658 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:46:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADDkrJs003605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:46:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADDiY55090663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:44:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDiWok070529; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:44:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADDiTRg070398 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:44:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 88786 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 13:44:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Q39MmJsug+4px3DMce13xUKVlSizeZZCh1/n39F4T1aK9K4SkBXZoysfvMRzaM9gR63h8pIj3JW8pWcih3cHeSL8bh6Hvt8+Ya0rekGOimWF0gHI+ZhI8x5BSbYvHC7OcM+kA/up5TWz1UNQV6IJjJyGxikIF5T5R/mmSQciqYg= ; Message-ID: <20061113134424.88784.qmail@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:44:24 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:44:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4557B9CD.90602@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558774D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:46:56 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d86f62b3-defe-45c1-9ccc-b0248df20563 Status: RO Thanks. I wondered why I didn't know the meaning of godet because it looked like a gore to me. It was in one of my patterns and confusing. Voncile Adele de Maisieres wrote: Voncile W. Dudley wrote: >Aren't gores the ones that start at the waist and godets the ones that start somewhere around the thigh? Anyone know the difference, if any? > > Well, SCA-types tend to call them gores and modern dressmakers tend to call them godets and use "gore" to refer to a trapezoidal panel. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 08:50:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDo1rO021728 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:50:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADDnvEH015812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:50:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADDnI8p091832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:49:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDnHU5075353; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:49:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADDSL0Y054857 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:28:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.186.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.186] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GjbrF-0004C5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:28:18 -0500 Message-ID: <45588083.1020804@faucet.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:26:11 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? References: <20061112230041.25325.qmail@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45587805.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:50:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 23177036-ed6f-4821-a567-a411b9c91638 Status: RO Voncile W. Dudley wrote: > Aren't gores the ones that start at the waist and godets the ones > that start somewhere around the thigh? Anyone know the difference, > if any? Lady Von In my years in the professional costume industry, I have generally heard godet used to refer to a triangular insert and gore for full-length shaped sections of a garment--waist to hem for a gored skirt, for example. I haven't really heard gore used to refer to the sections of a princess-line gown, though. Melanie Schuessler _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 09:04:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADE4GLe022051 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:04:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADE4CSJ006353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:04:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADE32Cu095244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:03:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADE2xcF089499; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:03:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADE2taD089325 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:02:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63115 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 14:02:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=JtcwLq1PEzvkOnCIdOLKE1OZ+n3nMvEJ/4sdWh6qPYP/nsgeScKzCtHZ/e8rXQq54rnyHjX6jcSbEvQlxA04ixzzszLisZoXifj0fx5M/V7Lj/X220zMdldc7QTaVX9lt4/ndRaeNmrEVo3anPH98RGB9+QvnGqJQ5PjIezpOyQ= ; Message-ID: <20061113140250.63113.qmail@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:02:50 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:02:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dresses with Gores Price X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45587B5C.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:04:16 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1ef6996a-ac2c-40f7-af16-082b2da16c53 Status: RO I love it as well and I also construct and for a lot less expense. I have one under construction right now. Can be seen at http://www.wildthangstreasures.com under adult section. I am undecided as to the trim. I considered hand painting the design but if I can find just the right trim, I may not paint but right now it's paint. I have a lovely flowing swirl that I will use either way. Lady Von Sue Clemenger wrote: Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was also pretty taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, huh? ;oD --sue in montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Branwyn Maura" To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). > > It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... > > Marg. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 09:19:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADEJVi8022445 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:19:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADEJR2t020038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:19:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADEGhwW098012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:16:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADEGdPD002862; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:16:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADEGZG1002693 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:16:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 8705 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 14:16:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=uZ59u0JXxHlv8B0FTgvR4XNUwqk9iNwoZXA+kqdVUXAd5BLFcmRIVLUYDAEQ2asmPHR8H8wKNt1NGuTPryd2ARC2y5KUgaAJh4cgdHLP1CaOr8IEmJvngBu3KRqhDCAA4CpfTPe/093Y0kKeOHWfAeJb9Jm767ifnvF6WaZNvSA= ; Message-ID: <20061113141629.8703.qmail@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:16:29 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:16:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001a01c706e7$42e58aa0$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45587EEF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:19:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c1c96858-c3cd-466b-9d72-9ade562d555e Status: RO WELL ! ! ! While I am not all together historically accurate, I do provide a very close garment for those who cannot or do not want to spend a small forturne in order to be able to participate in the Ren Faires. My garments are well made and with good fabric. I would be most happy to special make a garment of this nature for a lot less $$$$$. Lady Von Sue Clemenger wrote: Personally, I wouldn't touch it if it were mailed to me, free. And sure not for several hundred dollars. I've seen some seriously tacky cr@p aimed at the non-sewing SCA crowd (and, I assume at other non-sewing reenactors/hobbyists of relatively same time frame and required authenticity level), and that particular gown's right in there with the "please, god, make it go away" stuff.... IMHO, of course. --Sue, needing to go fondle some of her wool flannels just to take the taint away ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Well, except that in reality what costs $1 in the USA costs £1 in the UK. So > from the UK seller's point of view it would be a more accurate reflection of > their how much they are earning (in terms of paying the bills, keeping food > on the table etc.) if you just change the dollar symbol to a pounds symbol. > Now change your estimate to $350 (or even better look at more local > websites) and see if it's still worth it. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:13 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > > >I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those > >prices. > > > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > > >> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > >> > >>> How much is 350 pounds? > >> > >> $700 USD -- approximately > >> > >> susan > >> ----- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 09:25:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADEPUZa022598 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:25:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADEPQH0026307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:25:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADEO9HT099459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:24:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADEO73o010402; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:24:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.185]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADENx9A010166 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:24:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 68135 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 14:23:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fC9m78376fcHPPppi0wWgoxQeUkhnLhMl7h/XdD6CQXdwAFZFRCfaXEgib28hHZAwjBUjzWYc7gruHWARxxOwYi1WTrB7DUXbFTqCd/LEQWqvclTnatV+xSJDCVdAoTX6Gki2L4tou321prQMFASHabjb/HUbQtKP1cl6fYX1dA= ; Message-ID: <20061113142354.68133.qmail@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:23:54 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:23:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002101c706e7$bf5e7880$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45588056.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:25:29 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1a34c147-41af-409d-a572-4b2636b8c6c2 Status: RO WOW ! !! I use a regular machine and it takes me a whillllllllle to finish a beautiful garment of this nature. The gown can be constructed using less expensive but good quality fabric. It would take that long to just lay and cut the pattern (or least for me) but then I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and take frequent breaks but still if I worked straight through it would take much longer than 2 hours. That is fantastic sewing. I love to sew the Ren garb but I also provide garments for today's fashion depending on the customer. Anyway, not all of us who sew for others provide cr@p! Just my 2 cents worth. Lady Von Sue Clemenger wrote: With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a complete tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal with maps and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my sewing for fun. --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a gown? > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > > Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > > > >> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at > >> those > >> prices. > > > > Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! > > > > susan > > ----- > > Susan Farmer > > sfarmer@goldsword.com > > University of Tennessee > > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 09:42:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADEg8ru023024 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:42:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADEg1pM027968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:42:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADEdaGg002706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:39:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADEdYnI026932; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:39:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com (mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.253.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADEdQdf026810 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:39:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from SRS0=ayE+sV=EZ=benchite.com=megan@yourhostingaccount.com) Received: from scan07.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.237] helo=scan07.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1Gjcy6-00027e-6v for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:39:26 -0500 Received: from authsmtp12.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.12] ident=exim) by scan07.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1Gjcy5-000452-82 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:39:25 -0500 Received: from authsmtp12.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.12] helo=authsmtp12.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan07.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1Gjcy2-00044h-4r for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:39:22 -0500 Received: from c-69-138-4-46.hsd1.md.comcast.net ([69.138.4.46] helo=megan2) by authsmtp12.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1Gjcy1-000777-PG for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:39:21 -0500 From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Dresses with Gores Price Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:37:18 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c70731$38fb3e50$1701a8c0@BR> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AccHLIezuFcgY05ORiK4a5ERwTxytQABFZ4Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <20061113140250.63113.qmail@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-EN-UserInfo: aee0812f62e51b1daca100f4a85e249e:b9330c256c7a49b4fc210418bef22946 X-EN-AuthUser: mmchugh X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45588439.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:42:08 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 38212408-fb40-4763-bdb0-f32e593ae141 Status: RO Your site www.wilthangstreasures.com does not work under Firefox. When I go there I see a few words on the screen that are your sections but no working links. I thought it was a dead site until I tried it under Internet Explorer. You might want to address that with your web person, since it could interfere with your ability to do business. BTW, nice work. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Voncile W. Dudley Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:03 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dresses with Gores Price I love it as well and I also construct and for a lot less expense. I have one under construction right now. Can be seen at http://www.wildthangstreasures.com under adult section. I am undecided as to the trim. I considered hand painting the design but if I can find just the right trim, I may not paint but right now it's paint. I have a lovely flowing swirl that I will use either way. Lady Von Sue Clemenger wrote: Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was also pretty taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, huh? ;oD --sue in montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Branwyn Maura" To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). > > It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... > > Marg. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 10:20:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFKgVQ024057 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:20:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADFKdPw001076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:20:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADFIGGL009905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:18:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFICug066768; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:18:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFI7tQ066681 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:18:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.157] (pm5-157.eos.net [205.133.149.157]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kADFI4ul001066 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:18:05 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:01:38 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200611131403.kADE302x089519@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45588D47.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:20:42 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 34ba1e06-875d-4427-85b7-c2517fa98aab Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > In defence of this company in particular the example we've been discussing > is in their custom made section, so presumably it's a customer's design not > their own. Their readymade stuff looks fairly good as does most of their > custom made stuff, and they do describe the fantasy stuff as 'medieval > inspired' or '15th century inspired' etc. http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/ > Elizabeth Okay I couldn't resist and looked it up. Actually, this one (if it's the right one I'm looking at) says it's made to order in standard sizes, so it's not custom. And IMHO it's ugly, though not as bad as some have said. I know many people who would love it -- though they are not people who care much about accuracy. There are some really nice pieces on this site, so I would imagine these people are making a living making people what they want to buy, which is all right with me. I do wish they would say that it's not strictly accurate, which they do on some of their pieces. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 10:23:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFNxCw024157 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:23:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADFNtwq004913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:23:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADFLIN3010583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:21:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFLHuU070366; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:21:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao06.cox.net (eastrmmtao06.cox.net [68.230.240.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFLC7w070147 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:21:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20061113152111.BFCG4133.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:21:11 -0500 Received: from VMAA1 ([68.225.179.207]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id mFLE1V00J4UskY40000000; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:20:14 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: , , "'Historical Costume'" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:21:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c70737$569612e0$6501a8c0@VMAA1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Need WW1 Corset maker X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45588E0B.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:23:59 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2ac9da80-9dfe-41b9-9d8b-212a54e5d475 Status: RO Good Morning~ A friend is in need of a WW1 -era corset. Due to medical issues (bad wrists) she's not able to make her own, so she needs to find a reliable seamstress who can make it for her. Do any of you know of a reputable seamstress who can do this? It seems like so many corset makers focus on Victorian and earlier periods. Thanks for your time, Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 10:28:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFSuCa024287 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:28:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADFSoje010629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:28:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADFPtqr011512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:25:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFPrQI075212; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:25:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.192.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFPpmF075090 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20061113152545m14001dmsae>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:25:45 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <002101c706e7$bf5e7880$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion><20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com><20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com> <06960d7af2d4fdbf1e90f5fe6ad6ce12@ntw.net> <002101c706e7$bf5e7880$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:25:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45588F32.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:28:56 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 73b332d3-a7d6-407b-85cc-cd93b8b871bd Status: RO You must sew awfully fast. I've been sewing most all my life and I can see that taking me a couple days, including cutting of course, so that would bring my price, just for labor, up to $400. I don' think the asking price is unreasonable. My garments are quite well made, though, and fully lined if necessary. Sylrog On Nov 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a > complete > tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal > with maps > and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my > sewing for > fun. > --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > >> Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a >> gown? >> >> On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: >> >>> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : >>> >>>> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at >>>> those >>>> prices. >>> >>> Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! >>> >>> susan >>> ----- >>> Susan Farmer >>> sfarmer@goldsword.com >>> University of Tennessee >>> Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >>> http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 10:36:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFaUKE024550 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:36:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADFaQdj018377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:36:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADFZ5MF013308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:35:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFYxg0084862; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:35:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.200.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFYqcl084614 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:34:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006111315344601400mfunce>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:34:46 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <000001c70737$569612e0$6501a8c0@VMAA1> References: <000001c70737$569612e0$6501a8c0@VMAA1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0826e23afe7eb1e48d91a1fed14cf3dc@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need WW1 Corset maker Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:34:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455890FA.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:36:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 82116ed0-b119-4634-8c63-484cd3ed2e45 Status: RO Where does she live? I can make just about anything but I need to be able to do personal fittings in order to guarantee a good fit. Sylrog On Nov 13, 2006, at 8:21 AM, Linda Rice wrote: > Good Morning~ > > A friend is in need of a WW1 -era corset. Due to medical issues (bad > wrists) she's not able to make her own, so she needs to find a reliable > seamstress who can make it for her. Do any of you know of a reputable > seamstress who can do this? It seems like so many corset makers focus > on > Victorian and earlier periods. > > Thanks for your time, > > Linda > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 10:47:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFlHA0024890 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:47:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADFlBDp030522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:47:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADFinbP015590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:44:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFimp9095507; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:44:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADFiA4Z094783 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:44:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m22so831131nzf for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:44:04 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=cbYNDOJHWZ/s1k//v9R0gZP7FMA9kK6Bpf/WEp31JMejCtjGgWouoXx+Qy/Zrz6eQG1xhhVtqDOR2Lrln3KAPE/bc4eP0jehffdGgReSQEIju6Ig5Qm3gA1N34xPOFUdsbyxTlXiMcww3l+fMGuDi0KrhvFaxbKuKNgMibeM0/c= Received: by 10.35.99.17 with SMTP id b17mr10987180pym.1163432641037; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:44:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.9.1 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:44:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590611130744v2d3d08a2v25419bf6223ac7a1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:44:00 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion> <20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com> <20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com> <06960d7af2d4fdbf1e90f5fe6ad6ce12@ntw.net> <002101c706e7$bf5e7880$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4558937F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:47:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f86314f6-9218-42fe-859c-323697b7976f Status: RO Having just helped a young lady with her first sewing project that was basically this gown in one color. It took her three sewing sessions of about two hours each, one session that was to cut out and fit the gown and I took on the hem and lacing holes by machine (two hours) so she could wear it for Halloween. Now, if it had been me sewing it all, it would have taken two-three hours to sew. I would have charged about $75-100 in labor. Usually my sewing goes fast, it's when I make a mistake and have to tear something out and redo it that eats up my time. But I'm also rather compulsive when I'm working a project, working long hours and not stoping for meals if I can help it until it's done. alex On 11/13/06, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > You must sew awfully fast. I've been sewing most all my life and I can > see that taking me a couple days, including cutting of course, so that > would bring my price, just for labor, up to $400. I don' think the > asking price is unreasonable. My garments are quite well made, though, > and fully lined if necessary. > > Sylrog > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a > > complete > > tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal > > with maps > > and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my > > sewing for > > fun. > > --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > > > > >> Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a > >> gown? > >> > >> On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >> > >>> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > >>> > >>>> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at > >>>> those > >>>> prices. > >>> > >>> Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! > >>> > >>> susan > >>> ----- > >>> Susan Farmer > >>> sfarmer@goldsword.com > >>> University of Tennessee > >>> Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > >>> http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> h-costume mailing list > >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 11:23:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGNaEH025982 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:23:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADGNW63001390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:23:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADGGqNe021503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:16:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGGbDV033464; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:16:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.190]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADFeYTM090637 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:40:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 32585 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 15:40:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=l9TPeuxmf484bIsIqz54CMkipxM9YBsPIcHkYB8pMWyjPibp4mh5C7VSRQFrIijTxY/SgKs0zqiRdNtMhrlBedONg/U6Q+dbdfiAnSGfEq7rKC6fVml2aUnaVnaIcOWz9sy6dWmObezupvt2sRVtZW08k/gm8MXY76S2BOKw0mI= ; Message-ID: <20061113154021.32583.qmail@web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:40:21 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:40:21 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Dresses with Gores Price To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002001c70731$38fb3e50$1701a8c0@BR> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45589C04.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:23:36 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 56ab4e04-4a67-4754-860e-9b554d1e4a2a Status: RO Thanks. I'm working on it and I am the "webmaster" ha ha.... Am trying to learn front page program but right now am stuck with publisher. I also have a 360 yahoo where I post some of my work. I think you can click on the links and bring it up that way, don't know for sure. Lady Von "Megan M." wrote: Your site www.wilthangstreasures.com does not work under Firefox. When I go there I see a few words on the screen that are your sections but no working links. I thought it was a dead site until I tried it under Internet Explorer. You might want to address that with your web person, since it could interfere with your ability to do business. BTW, nice work. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Voncile W. Dudley Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:03 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dresses with Gores Price I love it as well and I also construct and for a lot less expense. I have one under construction right now. Can be seen at http://www.wildthangstreasures.com under adult section. I am undecided as to the trim. I considered hand painting the design but if I can find just the right trim, I may not paint but right now it's paint. I have a lovely flowing swirl that I will use either way. Lady Von Sue Clemenger wrote: Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was also pretty taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, huh? ;oD --sue in montana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Branwyn Maura" To: Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). > > It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... > > Marg. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 11:32:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGWs0k026294 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:32:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADGWoRW009273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:32:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADGU0u3024685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:30:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGTlJo049426; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:29:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGTbYH049119 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:29:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.ccc.2dc90ad (48624) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:29:13 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:29:12 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45589E32.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:32:54 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: dc3917bd-2228-44cb-9f95-b9c01deceb52 Status: RO In a message dated 11/12/2006 7:14:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com writes: Aren't gores the ones that start at the waist and godets the ones that start somewhere around the thigh? ****************** I would say a gore is a trapezoidal piece sewn to other gores to make up a complete skirt. Whereas a godat is a piece set into a slit made in a larger piece. In theory, you can slit your gores and insert a godet into them if you want. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 11:34:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGYoUO026357 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:34:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADGYkGA023927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:34:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADGVqQa025106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:32:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGNFSS041451; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:23:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao05.cox.net (eastrmmtao05.cox.net [68.230.240.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGMQIa040502 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:22:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20061113162225.UZET18065.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:22:25 -0500 Received: from VMAA1 ([68.225.179.207]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id mGMT1V00b4UskY40000000; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:21:28 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Need WW1 Corset maker Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:22:19 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c7073f$e4169dd0$6501a8c0@VMAA1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <0826e23afe7eb1e48d91a1fed14cf3dc@ntw.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45589EA6.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:34:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 16294a6d-a82d-4712-a5d6-10f871fe34ed Status: RO Hi Sylvia, We live in Southeastern Virginia, she in Chesapeake to be exact. Yes, long distance does add to the problem! Corsets by their very nature requiring exact fit means either she needs to be available for fittings, or she needs to find a gifted specialist who is accustomed to doing this by mail. She knows this, fortunately. She's made her own corset before but is unable to do it again. Thanks, I'll pass your e-addy along. Linda On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 10:35 AM Where does she live? I can make just about anything but I need to be able to do personal fittings in order to guarantee a good fit. Sylrog On Nov 13, 2006, at 8:21 AM, Linda Rice wrote: > Good Morning~ > > A friend is in need of a WW1 -era corset. Due to medical issues (bad > wrists) she's not able to make her own, so she needs to find a reliable > seamstress who can make it for her. Do any of you know of a reputable > seamstress who can do this? It seems like so many corset makers focus > on > Victorian and earlier periods. > > Thanks for your time, > > Linda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 11:44:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGitYK026587 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:44:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADGipDw020903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:44:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADGhpHR027549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:43:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGh2YD065224; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:43:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGgt7h065028 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:42:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kADGgfd00420 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:42:41 -0600 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Message-ID: <1163436161.4558a081bb6cd@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:42:41 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558A104.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:44:55 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c3955d60-ca15-4628-a33e-627bb7e72a06 Status: RO > I would say a gore is a trapezoidal piece sewn to other gores to make up a > complete skirt. Whereas a godat is a piece set into a slit made in a larger > piece. In theory, you can slit your gores and insert a godet into them if you > want. This all irritates me very much. You're the third person to say more or less the same thing, and I was *sure* it was the other way around! I hate it when I'm wrong! Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 11:59:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGxDn2026927 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:59:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADGxAQL003028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:59:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADGwEWr030255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:58:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGvkvD083153; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:57:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc12.comcast.net (alnrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.225.92]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADGvQY0082660 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:57:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-71-196-218-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20061113165717b1200n2nece>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:57:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <000001c7073f$e4169dd0$6501a8c0@VMAA1> References: <000001c7073f$e4169dd0$6501a8c0@VMAA1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <91a73fdbc81d893e739c9300bc6cd8ab@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need WW1 Corset maker Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:57:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558A45E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:59:13 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3d0bd1ad-102d-4410-9eef-b3d65d3c28b2 Status: RO I'm in Colorado so I guess this won't work. Sorry. On Nov 13, 2006, at 9:22 AM, Linda Rice wrote: > Hi Sylvia, > > We live in Southeastern Virginia, she in Chesapeake to be exact. Yes, > long distance does add to the problem! Corsets by their very nature > requiring exact fit means either she needs to be available for > fittings, > or she needs to find a gifted specialist who is accustomed to doing > this > by mail. She knows this, fortunately. She's made her own corset before > but is unable to do it again. > > Thanks, I'll pass your e-addy along. > > Linda > > On Behalf Of Sylvia Rognstad > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 10:35 AM > > Where does she live? I can make just about anything but I need to be > able to do personal fittings in order to guarantee a good fit. > > Sylrog > > On Nov 13, 2006, at 8:21 AM, Linda Rice wrote: > >> Good Morning~ >> >> A friend is in need of a WW1 -era corset. Due to medical issues (bad >> wrists) she's not able to make her own, so she needs to find a > reliable >> seamstress who can make it for her. Do any of you know of a reputable >> seamstress who can do this? It seems like so many corset makers focus >> on >> Victorian and earlier periods. >> >> Thanks for your time, >> >> Linda > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 12:03:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADH3Qav027051 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:03:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADH3MgV006979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:03:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADH0llr030746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:00:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADH0efj086589; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADH0Jj7086105 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:00:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c1e.85aa502 (48624) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:00:09 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:00:09 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558A55A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:03:26 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2e2ecef4-c417-4c4b-bd17-5eeb5a88f422 Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2006 10:18:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: Okay I couldn't resist and looked it up. Actually, this one (if it's the right one I'm looking at) says it's made to order in standard sizes, so it's not custom. And IMHO it's ugly, ************ I must agree. It is ugly! Let's just peruse the design, shall we? The different reds look pretty ugly to me, but all personal color choices aside.... The upper part of the gown is made to look like a gown with hanging sleeves, with tight sleeves from an undergown in brocade showing. So far so good. Now this isn't my period by a long shot, but I'm sure they faked this in the period. Still, would not a T-shaped construction be correct, if not more common, in this time than set in sleeves? [Like I said, it's not my period] If there's no armseye seam, this sleeve coming from under another sleeve seems hard to fake. Still, it's not unfathomable, and the dress does have set in sleeves... so that's OK. But then the whole illusion is destroyed when we get to the lower skirts. Were it a full skirt of brocade with the red overskirts slit at intervals to reveal the brocade, OK. But this is not what we have. We are stuck with what is obviously one pieced layer....a red dress trimmed in the same brocade as the tight sleeves of a supposed undergown. Why go thru all the trouble to fool the eye from the waist up only to kill that illusion with bad design below? I said it....BAD DESIGN. Let's all learn from it. There should be a LOGIC to designs....a logic that is true from head to foot. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 12:08:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADH8v92027211 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:08:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADH8rca025456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:08:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADH39NT031228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:03:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADH34VH089641; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:03:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao03.cox.net (eastrmmtao03.cox.net [68.230.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADH2wU7089425 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:03:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20061113165431.EWYL4133.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:54:31 -0500 Received: from VMAA1 ([68.225.179.207]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id mGta1V00M4UskY40000000; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:53:34 -0500 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:54:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c70744$606fd1e0$6501a8c0@VMAA1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kADH2wU7089425 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558A6A5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:08:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4abfaaee-836f-40cf-bcd8-61191862712c Status: RO Ok, then, what is a gusset? >From what I've learned over the years and confirmed by looking a the following definitions, "Gore" and "Godet" are pretty much the same, with the godet being specifically that triangular piece which extends upward from the hem to add fullness to a skirt, and a gore being that or also a trapezoidal or tapering shape that functions the same way and possibly extending higher than just the waist/hip area. A gusset is that triangle, diamond or other shape that we add into the underarm and thigh areas to give us more room where it is needed, and is sewn in on all sides. The first two are only sewn on 2 sides. ***** Gore (gôr, gr) n. 1. A triangular or tapering piece of cloth forming a part of something, as in a skirt or sail. 2. A small triangular piece of land. tr.v. gored, gor·ing, gores 1. To provide with a gore. 2. To cut into a gore. [Middle English, from Old English gra, triangular piece of land.] ***** Godet go·det (g-dt) n. A triangular piece of fabric usually set into the hem of a garment to add fullness. [French, goblet, godet, from Middle Dutch codde, cylindrical piece of wood.] ***** Gusset gus·set (gst) n. 1. A triangular insert, as in the seam of a garment, for added strength or expansion. 2. A triangular metal bracket used to strengthen a joist. 3. A piece of mail or plate armor protecting the joints in a suit of armor. [Middle English, from Old French gousset, perhaps diminutive of gousse, pod, husk.] ::Linda:: info taken from www.thefreedictionary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 12:26:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADHQr4o027731 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:26:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADHQnLl028522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:26:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADHNN21034696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:23:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADHN6DS013622; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:23:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADHMhiq012952 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 13 Nov 2006 17:17:10 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAPs4WEXUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACBS4p/AgkOKg Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1599 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GjfQj-0006HT-79 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:17:09 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113171209.03313148@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:17:15 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558AAD9.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:26:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7b72e811-5c39-4d3f-b57e-79e1c268e1b8 Status: RO At 17:00 13/11/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 11/13/2006 10:18:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >gailscott@eos.net writes: > >Okay I couldn't resist and looked it up. Actually, this one (if it's the >right one I'm looking at) says it's made to order in standard sizes, so it's >not custom. And IMHO it's ugly, > > >************ > > >I must agree. It is ugly! Let's just peruse the design, shall we? > >The different reds look pretty ugly to me, but all personal color choices >aside.... > >The upper part of the gown is made to look like a gown with hanging sleeves, >with tight sleeves from an undergown in brocade showing. So far so good. Now >this isn't my period by a long shot, but I'm sure they faked this in the >period. Still, would not a T-shaped construction be correct, if not >more common, >in this time than set in sleeves? [Like I said, it's not my period] If >there's no armseye seam, this sleeve coming from under another >sleeve seems hard >to fake. Still, it's not unfathomable, and the dress does have set in >sleeves... so that's OK. > >But then the whole illusion is destroyed when we get to the lower skirts. >Were it a full skirt of brocade with the red overskirts slit at intervals to >reveal the brocade, OK. But this is not what we have. We are stuck >with what is >obviously one pieced layer....a red dress trimmed in the same brocade as the >tight sleeves of a supposed undergown. Why go thru all the trouble to fool >the eye from the waist up only to kill that illusion with bad design below? > >I said it....BAD DESIGN. > >Let's all learn from it. > >There should be a LOGIC to designs....a logic that is true from head to foot. I am beginning to be tired of the incredible rudeness of this list to a fellow costumer who doesn't know she is being ripped to pieces. Would anyone be so rude to someone who is a list member? I think not. The lady obviously makes "good" costumes as well as not so good - don't we all? Just because it is not what this list approves of doesn't give us the right to be rude. Her address was given in good faith as someone who might be able to supply some goods. I am embarrassed that I gave her name, as I had no expectation of the sniping and carping that would go on. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 12:46:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADHkZE4028240 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:46:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADHkVaa025822 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:46:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADHjUMW038577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:45:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADHiNZp038590; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:44:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADHgu3P036707 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:43:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c65.4e7a0be (48624) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:42:33 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:42:33 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558AF77.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:46:34 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 21cfa1f4-db2c-4481-95b4-a5c135b4f32f Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2006 12:26:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Her address was given in good faith as someone who might be able to supply some goods. I am embarrassed that I gave her name, as I had no expectation of the sniping and carping that would go on. ****************** The site has some very nice stuff on it. This red thing is NOT one of them. Oh well. I don't think the sky is gonna fall.... or her business will suffer. I don't see that it's that big a deal. I clearly stated what I thought was wrong with the design, instead of just saying "I don't like it". One can agree or disagree with me. I'd tell her to her face that the skirt treatment destroys the illusion set up by the bodice, and that makes it a poorly thought out design. I don't see why anybody should lose sleep over any of it. I just pointed it out in the hopes that no one else making clothes will mistakenly go down the same path. I'm sure many would find things I make ugly too. [They have!] But that's OK...and I'd like to know why they don't like it. I'm not so thin skinned as to not be able to take criticism...even catty criticism...and use it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 13:01:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADI1QRJ028589 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:01:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADI1K5G031248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:01:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADHxZGD040936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:59:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADHxQSk055551; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:59:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADHiigL038736 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:45:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from Duncan (cpe-71-66-106-120.neo.res.rr.com [71.66.106.120]) by ms-smtp-03.ohiordc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADHiO8V021687 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:44:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008601c7074b$5c7a0270$0202a8c0@Duncan> From: "Ailith Mackintosh" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:44:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fw: Unpaid Internship in London X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558B2F0.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:01:26 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a21f99b8-7d4c-49c8-afda-5a7732da69f5 Status: RO Farah Karim-Cooper of the Globe Theatre Education dept writes: I am currently looking for two research interns. One for a special project compiling a costume glossary resource with Jenny Tiramani; it would entail going to the BL quite a bit and reading early printed texts-- lexicons and dictionaries etc. We need someone with some grasp of Latin and perhaps French or Italian, but it's not absolutely vital. The other person would stay on until July and would help with various projects in the research department as well as conducting research for the theatre productions while they are in rehearsal. We need either MA or PhD (In either Shakespeare/Drama/Theatre or Renaissance Studies) students who wouldn't mind givig up two days a week to the Globe. Unfortunately, it is an unpaid internship, but well worth it for the experience and access to scholars and theatre artists. Please contact Farah at farah@shakespearesglobe.com Outgoing email scanned by Norton AntiVirus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 13:16:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADIGrYK029012 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:16:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADIGlfH015263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:16:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADIDEcO043693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:13:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADID4Wo072693; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:13:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33911.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33911.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.189]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADICiC6072129 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:12:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 92010 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 18:12:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=l9BDU2gvtaxOo05RkB03aRwx+4ikVLhhvRmR1cPyIG7Ro8dcU8tUaE6nLREOQILo+WfpqJnpRwYas1oc78WdmUQDuq2u20E3IRn1PMw74bUEfMy3nYmfh+DrcY+iKmvPn75mL6FYHPYjYIyutbf8kGzpVI4bnA/h0oUj3Fv1tVc= ; Message-ID: <20061113181233.92008.qmail@web33911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33911.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:12:33 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:12:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558B68F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:16:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 97e08781-7e27-4c30-94b7-c77a252900aa Status: RO Now that sounds interesting to try! Thanks. Lady Von AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/12/2006 7:14:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com writes: Aren't gores the ones that start at the waist and godets the ones that start somewhere around the thigh? ****************** I would say a gore is a trapezoidal piece sewn to other gores to make up a complete skirt. Whereas a godat is a piece set into a slit made in a larger piece. In theory, you can slit your gores and insert a godet into them if you want. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 13:28:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADIShGZ029378 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:28:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADISe5O002611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:28:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADIPT1R046745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:25:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADIPO4n089063; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:25:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.188]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADIPFSJ088767 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:25:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 32818 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 18:25:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bIBf10tZJL93ktnfSuyKeEOx8R28sdriiMeYxNZBmfZ7m7AvKeWWorOXdoFXOdkXbh7Me37SXVe5502Di3xrT8SKNZG8+lo7nlkfATD0YVU2eiHY4mXZ/qCul3cfzQaNKz5agJLf8cHLQNE6WH9V8UiU2VwLVtwsnKQvJmwUhAk= ; Message-ID: <20061113182508.32816.qmail@web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33910.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:25:08 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:25:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558B958.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:28:43 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: dbeddb12-ced2-4b2a-b853-4982eb66982a Status: RO Glad you meant well but unfortunately it didn't come across that way. ****************** The site has some very nice stuff on it. This red thing is NOT one of them. Oh well. I don't think the sky is gonna fall.... or her business will suffer. I don't see that it's that big a deal. I clearly stated what I thought was wrong with the design, instead of just saying "I don't like it". One can agree or disagree with me. I'd tell her to her face that the skirt treatment destroys the illusion set up by the bodice, and that makes it a poorly thought out design. I don't see why anybody should lose sleep over any of it. I just pointed it out in the hopes that no one else making clothes will mistakenly go down the same path. I'm sure many would find things I make ugly too. [They have!] But that's OK...and I'd like to know why they don't like it. I'm not so thin skinned as to not be able to take criticism...even catty criticism...and use it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 13:30:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADIUgim029462 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:30:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADIUZaa028662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:30:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADIO4R4046314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:24:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADINwH2087159; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:24:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.190]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADINnSs086871 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:23:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 90987 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 18:23:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=RX0I+qMHujPzU6FMYUV+YcrRYerJ0UZdhyi4MoL87udjwT0/+6l4zkWFukqIazYYoMObeNvhXKlcpJneWZS1TB/0ntWXzqYyOxUZtzBnJ2k6WIWS/rPV9Emq5+PfsclaabbttaRRaPOEloJNNPVwSXV9U7vYbVfNpTNDEqSONzg= ; Message-ID: <20061113182343.90985.qmail@web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:23:43 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 10:23:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113171209.03313148@suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558B9CC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:30:41 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fba45045-76bb-4370-94a4-62ccc42cd3b1 Status: RO You put it in great words. I tried to but your's is much much better. Lady Von Suzi Clarke wrote: > >I said it....BAD DESIGN. > >Let's all learn from it. > >There should be a LOGIC to designs....a logic that is true from head to foot. I am beginning to be tired of the incredible rudeness of this list to a fellow costumer who doesn't know she is being ripped to pieces. Would anyone be so rude to someone who is a list member? I think not. The lady obviously makes "good" costumes as well as not so good - don't we all? Just because it is not what this list approves of doesn't give us the right to be rude. Her address was given in good faith as someone who might be able to supply some goods. I am embarrassed that I gave her name, as I had no expectation of the sniping and carping that would go on. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 13:49:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADInajv030247 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:49:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADInWRS022576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:49:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADIl8Yn051509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:47:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADIkvb2015517; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:47:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADIjVBQ013911 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:46:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23353 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:29:49 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:29:49 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: Unpaid Internship in London In-Reply-To: <008601c7074b$5c7a0270$0202a8c0@Duncan> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558BE3C.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:49:36 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 2a1b2dea-0aeb-4e9e-8734-9a708ff80c90 Status: RO On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Ailith Mackintosh wrote: > Farah Karim-Cooper of the Globe Theatre Education dept writes: > > I am currently looking for two research interns... Well, that was fast. This morning I forwarded that notice on request to an academic-oriented list. I did not mention whether the notice could be forwarded, and no one has asked me for permission to forward it elsewhere, but now I wonder if it's making the rounds through all the costuming/re-enactment lists. Out of courtesy to the people at the Globe, whose message may now be taken out of context, I would like to remind folks that the Globe is almost certainly looking for students currently in a related academic program who will work for college credit. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 14:19:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADJJ9Dw031165 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:19:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADJJ541017345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:19:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADJGRKI057825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:16:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADJGOo9053312; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:16:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.200.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADJGJUQ053104 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:16:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006111319161301400mfsiie>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:16:13 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <20061113140250.63113.qmail@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061113140250.63113.qmail@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <846EC67B-5BE1-47BA-A2C3-44934A288EC0@comcast.net> From: Lauren Walker Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dresses with Gores Price Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:16:11 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558C529.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:19:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 75323498-56af-45f2-a904-19606a5dc618 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kADJJ9Dw031165 Status: RO Sigh. I love authenticity, AND I love clothing that borrows beautiful elements from the past, AND I am plagued by a syncretistic sense of humor that, for instance, prompts me to imagine making a lovely robe a la française out of a nice lissere fabric patterned with...scottie dogs. The key is to keep them separate, and wear them where appropriate. However, just FYI, my Lady, when I went to your Web site, none of the navigation links seemed to work for me -- I could not get into any of your sections. Lauren On Nov 13, 2006, at 9:02 AM, Voncile W. Dudley wrote: > I love it as well and I also construct and for a lot less expense. > I have one under construction right now. Can be seen at http:// > www.wildthangstreasures.com under adult section. I am undecided as > to the trim. I considered hand painting the design but if I can > find just the right trim, I may not paint but right now it's > paint. I have a lovely flowing swirl that I will use either way. > Lady Von > > Sue Clemenger wrote: > Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the > authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was > also pretty > taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). > I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, > huh? ;oD > --sue in montana > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Branwyn Maura" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > >> Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the >> early > middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), > but the > use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really > documentable for > this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th > century, but I'm not sure). >> >> It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* >> documentable... >> >> Marg. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Lady Von > > http://www.wildthangstreasures.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 15:16:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADKGGwt000332 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:16:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADKGC7K011319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:16:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADKDb8n068547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:13:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADKDMPI022663; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:13:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jaguar.campus.muc.prv ([199.18.39.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADKDGDM021764 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:13:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from RICKARPA@muc.edu) Received: from lynx.campus.muc.prv ([172.16.100.248]) by jaguar.campus.muc.prv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:16:00 -0500 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:15:32 -0500 Message-ID: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FE0B0@lynx.campus.muc.prv> In-Reply-To: <20061113182343.90985.qmail@web33912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts Thread-Index: AccHUlBZBFRjpWEHS5uv4UWCgZpHcQADh5Eg From: "Rickard, Patty " To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2006 20:16:00.0844 (UTC) FILETIME=[897F88C0:01C70760] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kADKDGDM021764 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558D28C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:16:16 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4803c8da-7076-4568-a7b6-796ba293d059 Status: RO Ditto, Patty -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Voncile W. Dudley Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:24 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts You put it in great words. I tried to but your's is much much better. Lady Von Suzi Clarke wrote: > >I said it....BAD DESIGN. > >Let's all learn from it. > >There should be a LOGIC to designs....a logic that is true from head to foot. I am beginning to be tired of the incredible rudeness of this list to a fellow costumer who doesn't know she is being ripped to pieces. Would anyone be so rude to someone who is a list member? I think not. The lady obviously makes "good" costumes as well as not so good - don't we all? Just because it is not what this list approves of doesn't give us the right to be rude. Her address was given in good faith as someone who might be able to supply some goods. I am embarrassed that I gave her name, as I had no expectation of the sniping and carping that would go on. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 16:03:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADL3cop001563 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:03:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADL3Wrq024651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:03:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADL24B1078650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:02:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADL1bSC083009; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:01:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail03.imt.uwm.edu (mail03.imt.uwm.edu [129.89.7.45]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADL1PGC082763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:01:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jab@uwm.edu) Received: from [129.89.154.144] ([129.89.154.144]) by mail03.imt.uwm.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADL1Lg8009144 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:01:21 -0600 Message-ID: <4558DD1C.6010002@uwm.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:01:16 -0600 From: Julie Brautigan User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] help..I've been trying to get removed from this list for months X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558DDA4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:03:38 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: bb131284-583d-440b-9a66-cf83a74fb618 Status: RO _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 16:35:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLZIYs002405 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:35:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADLZDM5022463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:35:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADLV4kr084122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:31:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLUpde018513; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:30:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADLUadX018120 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:30:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 57617 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 21:30:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=h5skJ9wBdctH/sdXr5fe86XC8sFDFCDNcfu2t1fXb3xx2b3ieC70k5bkPrxlFUigB/GcCS5Yyvz/imF7W4uRAdXEP0EvGhouQGfRrHWoOJ5zRmNJEoWGmaolbwIPoYe+m49vPB0sYa0r6BD563ZnPJJOTQH6lsMPaJ13jT77F2I= ; Message-ID: <20061113213030.57615.qmail@web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [148.107.3.20] by web32714.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:30:29 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:30:29 -0800 (PST) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4558E511.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:35:18 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 674e43d0-b322-4e0c-9a8b-92e9d32ffe1c Status: RO ld someone send the link to the actual page this item is on? I've been all through the Medieval stuff and don't see it. MaggiRos --- Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Okay I couldn't resist and looked it up. Actually, > this one (if it's the > right one I'm looking at) says it's made to order in > standard sizes, so it's > not custom. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 16:44:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLiXuO002582 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:44:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADLiSPm008635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:44:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADLePfq086445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:40:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLeJIj030112; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:40:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADLe2cB029761 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:40:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 30843 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2006 13:40:01 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 30778, pid: 30815, t: 4.7611s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp3 with SMTP; 13 Nov 2006 13:39:56 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113133825.02547150@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:39:39 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] help..I've been trying to get removed from this list for months In-Reply-To: <4558DD1C.6010002@uwm.edu> References: <4558DD1C.6010002@uwm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp3.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4558E73C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:44:33 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9e07e104-340e-4872-8c57-152dc6f1dbba Status: RO At 01:01 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote: Look in the email header. There is an "unsubscribe" instruction: List-Unsubscribe: , Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 16:48:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLmeUq002664 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:48:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADLmasX001188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:48:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADLkoxI087553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:46:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLkhaq037416; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:46:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLkU4s037057 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:46:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cb9.36f1519 (60432) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:46:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M02 (mblk-m02.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.35]) by ciaaol-d01.mail.aol.com (v114.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLD011-ec104558e7a3363; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:46:11 -0500 References: <200611131900.kADJ0JjI033168@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:46:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200611131900.kADJ0JjI033168@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 21462 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.35) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:46:11 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.35 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fabric question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558E834.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:48:40 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5eeba273-3968-4686-b05f-e1a8ad68750c Status: RO I'm sure someone on this list can answer this question for me: What the heck is silk gazar fabric? http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=M162_ Thanks! Tea Rose ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 17:27:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADMRnE9003559 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:27:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADMRjAV001939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:27:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADMOxqZ094901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:24:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADMObcc081905; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:24:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omr.tzo.com (omr.tzo.com [64.27.166.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADMO9UD081331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:24:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from omr.tzo.com ([172.20.50.104]) by omr.tzo.com with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1GjkDj-0002zd-PT for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:24:03 -0500 X-TZO-Forward: h-costume@indra.com Received: from 76.186.80.34 by omr.tzo.com id 2006111317240428151 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:24:04 GMT Received: from PYC64 ([192.168.1.102]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:20:08 -0600 From: "Betsy Marshall" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fabric question Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:12 -0600 Organization: Software Innovation Message-ID: <001001c70772$72234a10$6601a8c0@PYC64> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 In-Reply-To: <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Thread-Index: AccHcPpGR8td1jXSRlixKhQHyNLCWwAAWybQ X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Nov 2006 22:20:08.0831 (UTC) FILETIME=[E0D828F0:01C70771] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558F161.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:27:49 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3be019bb-e1c1-4c48-849a-c784d908d30d Status: RO http://www.bartleby.com/61/56/G0065600.html might help -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of tearoses@aol.com Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 3:46 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Fabric question I'm sure someone on this list can answer this question for me: What the heck is silk gazar fabric? http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=M162_ Thanks! Tea Rose ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 17:34:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADMYbQk003708 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:34:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADMYXOr007855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:34:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADMTB8v095770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:29:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADMT4bn087177; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:29:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADMCE4e067654 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 11087 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2006 14:11:53 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 11022, pid: 11078, t: 1.5923s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 13 Nov 2006 14:11:52 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113140308.02547008@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:11:40 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric question In-Reply-To: <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> References: <200611131900.kADJ0JjI033168@net.indra.com> <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558F2F9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:34:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 07888200-476b-4db1-b636-3d2d97f78674 Status: RO At 01:46 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote: >I'm sure someone on this list can answer this question for me: What >the heck is silk > >gazar fabric? > >http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=M162 > >Thanks! > >Tea Rose To make this URL work, I had to remove the "_" from the end (I edited the link in this reply). According to Encarta: gazar: a stiff loosely woven silk [Mid-20th century. Origin ?]. From Answers.com: A loosely woven silk with a crisp finish. [Probably ultimately from Arabic qazz, raw silk. See gauze.] According to some of the links that came up on Google, it's sometimes used for bridal gowns. It sounds like it's a heavier weight than gauze, but of similar loose weave. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 17:40:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADMerPF003872 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:40:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kADMensL013460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:40:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADMcDOM097434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:38:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADMc75R097438; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:38:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADMbuXX097166 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:37:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4003 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 22:37:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gQsMgPXBx0HXG3jdBO4ePCbQfYYFTHEwPZAHOGZtk/4JRmm15zYdY9Dl5I9dwgRC4Zge1liW6no8a+1Xp5xxSuF7VY02jXIN1XFRQs0bfxuRCDwofNONngHQ43VNAOaK5AtuWygVbYoEA51q0ckh1OTkr+8SZUf95msD/pGRUNc= ; Message-ID: <20061113223747.4001.qmail@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [148.107.3.20] by web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:37:47 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4558F471.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:40:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 0b584e81-527e-4feb-a5ad-cab4be65f2bb Status: RO A loosely woven silkm with a crisp finiah http://www.bartleby.com/61/56/G0065600.html stiff silk: a stiff loosely woven silk [Mid-20th century. Origin ?] http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861674686/gazar.htm Without having it in your hands, you still don't really know, but it sounds like it could be wonderful. MaggiRos --- tearoses@aol.com wrote: > I'm sure someone on this list can answer this > question for me: What the heck is silk > > gazar fabric? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:00:54 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE00oaN005793 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:00:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE00llT032540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:00:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kADNxgxZ010917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:59:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADNxTYd085119; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:59:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADNxK1D084955 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:59:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.144] (pm5-144.eos.net [205.133.149.144]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kADNxIul011098 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:59:19 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:42:48 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200611132224.kADMOdmF081929@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559072F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:00:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: dd785cf6-0346-4ee9-8ff9-9a234686ec99 Status: RO I have Internet Explorer, and it doesn't work for me either. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:12:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0CHXk006148 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:12:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0CDsG012674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:12:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0BMsh012883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:11:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0BL2U097661; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:11:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0BFho097452 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:11:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0E7ADDD5 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:11:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <455909C9.2080208@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:11:53 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric question References: <200611131900.kADJ0JjI033168@net.indra.com> <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061113140308.02547008@surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113140308.02547008@surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455909DD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:12:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 727bea01-5e2f-4ec1-abf4-ed3b88bbfba0 Status: RO Joan Jurancich wrote: > At 01:46 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote: > >> I'm sure someone on this list can answer this question for me: What >> the heck is silk >> gazar fabric? >> ... > > According to some of the links that came up on Google, it's sometimes > used for bridal gowns. It sounds like it's a heavier weight than gauze, > but of similar loose weave. How would it compare with organza or organdy? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:34:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0YMs0006808 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:34:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0YIZ8003067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:34:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0SrbB016104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:28:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0SoEB016393; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:28:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE0SldJ016348 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:28:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 26667 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2006 16:28:47 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 26566, pid: 26640, t: 4.5311s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp3 with SMTP; 13 Nov 2006 16:28:42 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113162716.02547500@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:28:22 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric question In-Reply-To: <455909C9.2080208@reddawn.net> References: <200611131900.kADJ0JjI033168@net.indra.com> <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061113140308.02547008@surewest.net> <455909C9.2080208@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp3.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45590F0A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:34:21 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 342dbbd9-14dc-4dfb-bafc-9f3dfa299e85 Status: RO At 04:11 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote: >Joan Jurancich wrote: > >>At 01:46 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote: >> >>>I'm sure someone on this list can answer this question for me: >>>What the heck is silk >>>gazar fabric? >... >>According to some of the links that came up on Google, it's >>sometimes used for bridal gowns. It sounds like it's a heavier >>weight than gauze, but of similar loose weave. > >How would it compare with organza or organdy? > >Dawn I have no idea. I only know what I found using Google. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:44:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0iGL4007089 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:44:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0iCxv010689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:44:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0eekg018118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:40:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0ecYw027932; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:40:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE0eZEr027749 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:40:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 95175 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 00:40:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=F39nIQikqtc/FanUpmk9hyFIdwiCr2pXPZDxehgXqJ3b2Vu9u9Nsivmk1davnQemOqvdq8N0L/cvahllHhHvSvpe/mCaj2yzzibGakSaFHb7yRddHy0lTgkzZdeBJnauABCMRf9IkKcRRzR9AvZuxhuZnjxDE2PqRheoDO5pDoA= ; Message-ID: <20061114004029.95173.qmail@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:40:29 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:40:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] help..I've been trying to get removed from this list for months To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4558DD1C.6010002@uwm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559115C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:44:16 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 24ca5c80-c231-4ba9-a792-8ec421cc8565 Status: RO AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS EMAIL THERE IS A http:// LINK, click on it, go to the bottom of the page that comes up and there is a section to unsubscribe. Fare thee well. Lady Von Julie Brautigan wrote: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:49:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0nRrW007238 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:49:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0nN37004744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:49:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0mB3l019609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:48:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0m6NX036319; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:48:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADL4RaU086475 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:04:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48811 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 21:04:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=6uYdlFsAzOIBqcCZuymo9U39/ki70uHjpz4JHrPc1l0f+VaRf1AAQPoCTO0Z+2QCwoOXORQbFrobk9TSDTNvQgQumf0BDSEoQHXfWlqMiVdUs9KbXpGBhCd2Fuh4CFssOjUlHOWHnO9lcn5NQOZvkFN0pD4GnjA2ehqO4foZjx8= ; Message-ID: <20061113210422.48809.qmail@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:04:22 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:04:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dresses with Gores Price To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <846EC67B-5BE1-47BA-A2C3-44934A288EC0@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45591293.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:49:27 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8152b191-826a-44b7-b0b2-00ca21e11934 Status: RO Sorry you had problem accessing my site. I understand that folks with firefox are unable to access. If you have internet explorer, that will work. Of course, the fabric as well as the pattern is important but everything for the faire doesn't have to be tee totally historically accurate for a person to attend. I have made some historically accurate but mostly just what fits the period in time or fantasy. I never advertise historically correct unless it actually meets the standard of history. Thanks for your interest. Lady Von Lauren Walker wrote: Sigh. I love authenticity, AND I love clothing that borrows beautiful elements from the past, AND I am plagued by a syncretistic sense of humor that, for instance, prompts me to imagine making a lovely robe a la française out of a nice lissere fabric patterned with...scottie dogs. The key is to keep them separate, and wear them where appropriate. However, just FYI, my Lady, when I went to your Web site, none of the navigation links seemed to work for me -- I could not get into any of your sections. Lauren On Nov 13, 2006, at 9:02 AM, Voncile W. Dudley wrote: > I love it as well and I also construct and for a lot less expense. > I have one under construction right now. Can be seen at http:// > www.wildthangstreasures.com under adult section. I am undecided as > to the trim. I considered hand painting the design but if I can > find just the right trim, I may not paint but right now it's > paint. I have a lovely flowing swirl that I will use either way. > Lady Von > > Sue Clemenger wrote: > Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the > authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was > also pretty > taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). > I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, > huh? ;oD > --sue in montana > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Branwyn Maura" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > >> Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the >> early > middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), > but the > use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really > documentable for > this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th > century, but I'm not sure). >> >> It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* >> documentable... >> >> Marg. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Lady Von > > http://www.wildthangstreasures.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:50:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0ojcx007283 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:50:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0ofdg016175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:50:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0nN1j019762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0nLmc037648; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:49:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.prismnet.com (smtp.prismnet.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLFfnM099607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:15:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.prismnet.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kADLFWZb060573 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:15:32 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 65.117.156.5 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches) by webmail.io.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:15:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <54458.65.117.156.5.1163452532.squirrel@webmail.io.com> In-Reply-To: <4558DD1C.6010002@uwm.edu> References: <4558DD1C.6010002@uwm.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:15:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] help..I've been trying to get removed from this list for months From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on smtp.prismnet.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=7.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on smtp.prismnet.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455912E1.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:50:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 055f4417-1b96-4714-8687-970cfd8b3896 Status: RO How many addresses do you have subscribed to this list? How many incarnations of your addresses are subscribed to this list? If you have a three part domain, like many university mailing addresses do, that may be what the problem is. Look at the headers of an email from thelist to see which address and what incarnation of that address is listed then go to the URL listed at the end of this message to unsub that address. :) Chiara On Mon, November 13, 2006 3:01 pm, Julie Brautigan said: > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:51:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0pC9M007295 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0p9Xp006214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0nud6019841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:49:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0ns0L038245; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:49:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kADLObTj010790 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:24:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cbc.36e5d0a (48338) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from MBLK-M02 (mblk-m02.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.35]) by ciaaol-d02.mail.aol.com (v114.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLD026-bcd24558e2832ca; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:19 -0500 References: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:19 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 21462 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.35) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8D58136B65A13-B34-4D9@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.35 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455912FD.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fb902dc7-f4b2-4363-a900-a707863411a3 Status: RO Wow, that is some really cool information, Melanie. So, does that allow you to draw any conclusions about the gable headdress?( http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownLady5.jpg) It almost looks like it could be the same hood, only with the fall(s) attached on the bottom instead of the top (and, of course, there were two falls). I've always thought that if someone made a timeline of images showing how the gable and French hood headdresses evolved from earlier fashions, it would help us figure out what's under there. But then, maybe you would need to know what was under there before you could make such a timeline. Tea Rose ======================== Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 12:55:05 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review You can see what is probably a similar construction in those hoods that appear in profile in Jane Malcolm-Davies's useful online effigies database, for example http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/browse/view.asp?id=73 http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/browse/view.asp?id=92 and on Antoinette de Fontette, whose effigy is image 436 on page 221 of my edition of Boucher's _20,000 Years of Fashion_. The same shape appears in every profile image I have found so far, from 1530 on. Melanie Schuessler ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:51:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0pUPP007307 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0pQ6f007787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0oOsF019946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:50:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0oNrJ038774; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:50:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADLxh1Q052875 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:59:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 7235 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 21:59:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hK38zokj1f9FxKFUUW6Wj8S1r3gLDoiF2mrJVFmaGcR/8gnwhvCY076VEKJbh8Iau9bqnJQ9C9uIgG9/EW/lbiL9QUXHsU/Im6M/XkG5/68BIyfY0RXK2idYdiJ8Q1VufltgtjGEMdsYqJhWj1KidNyfAGVtvLiA5kQ66kKLy7E= ; Message-ID: <20061113215937.7233.qmail@web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:59:37 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:59:37 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113171209.03313148@suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559130E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:29 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: af4185a4-5c56-4c4c-bc1a-c6b0cda78960 Status: RO Now I feel really bad about posting this "gores question". The picture just kind of caught my eye, as I'd heard some people telling me that contrasting gores were accurate in the middle ages - a fact that I wasn't very sure of. So I just wanted to ask. It wasn't meant to doubt the lady's work at all. Suzi Clarke wrote: I am beginning to be tired of the incredible rudeness of this list to a fellow costumer who doesn't know she is being ripped to pieces. Would anyone be so rude to someone who is a list member? I think not. The lady obviously makes "good" costumes as well as not so good - don't we all? Just because it is not what this list approves of doesn't give us the right to be rude. Her address was given in good faith as someone who might be able to supply some goods. I am embarrassed that I gave her name, as I had no expectation of the sniping and carping that would go on. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:51:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0prcZ007319 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0pnBh016932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0oeZR020018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:50:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0occX039069; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:50:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52114.mail.yahoo.com (web52114.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.117]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kADMBI94066721 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:11:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 8428 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Nov 2006 22:11:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Hrl8GKYxzO3tjIPkyEM0KLHta0cDTFez61Edblpww/9eNykwpHdDcadtZi5rjYULJDCXAScS3aSTR26/AQeWMUCSjq1Kp1fKyyPzIR/HLNYbozg4fvqicbXIyONh3i/oxBWDx0iEYgRt/+cAjWs/J3Av+VaCvwngfLuO2XiTxQM= ; Message-ID: <20061113221106.8421.qmail@web52114.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52114.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:11:06 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:11:06 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Blue on Judith X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45591325.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 33022ac1-3131-4806-bb7a-f2c7c941ec80 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kAE0prcZ007319 Status: RO On another list I am on, a topic coming up regarding the relevance the colour blue is to Jewish women came up, relative to the Book of Judith and all the spin off paintings it has created particularly in Italian ren paintings. While bantering the topic, I came to find that a certain shade of blue is important to the Jewish culture. I thought that the use of blue on the Judith figures in the paintings marked her visually as a Jewess. Someone suggested that it was not relevant in that regard but connected it to the blue veil of the Virgin - that didn't ring right for me, since Judith is a widow. Rootling a little more, I found that she wore a blue widow's veil - I didn't know that a widow's veil was blue in any culture I just assumed they were always black, so this was news to me. So, is this representation of blue because she is a Jewess, or because she is a widow? And, because of the connection of blue, has anyone noticed that blue is not a well represented colour amongst the Christian nobility? It occurs on occasion in Italian art, according to my memory, I haven't yet done a serious survey to make any real conclusions. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert (Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:53:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0rKSp007350 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:53:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0rHiC007734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:53:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0qOR6020338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:52:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0qKM6040972; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:52:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0ODfZ011329 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:24:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rapierlady@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FrUfXwd8ZHiiTtcCTdxUuq2ALRuzFFX7NpKN4U5g7vh57sCHWMMa+gHAa4IHfWxE; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.39] (helo=elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Gjm61-0001tY-Ag for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:24:13 -0500 Received: from 24.53.221.217 by webmail.pas.earthlink.net with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:24:12 -0500 Message-ID: <2814071.1163463853317.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:24:12 -0500 (EST) From: Wendy Colbert To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-ELNK-Trace: 0a030519c2a4ee4cf8c10fa22fe64701239a348a220c26099034453523054ada424004820cea8f4e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.39 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559137D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:53:20 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e88d5d2f-2d19-41bc-a883-fb8ca63f8374 Status: RO It worked for me and I use Internet Explorer Wendy http://strings-n-strands.blog-city.com/ -----Original Message----- >From: Gail & Scott Finke >Sent: Nov 13, 2006 6:42 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. > > >I have Internet Explorer, and it doesn't work for me either. > >Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:55:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0tbaJ007417 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:55:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0tW8l011448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:55:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0sPAG020810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:54:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0sNc0043070; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:54:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51311.mail.yahoo.com (web51311.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE0sKdW042951 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:54:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 30777 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 00:54:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=L3his0lZH8OjjNF79lbHqgYl3xbc2nId04I94Nx+qUuUOEvavpihWf0JHcpE6UK4yj7itROoHtA1WKZk7J8CW8l3SWgiI3kKEDW1JHwlGJxJjj3PeZhbyBkmcwQArpLuG1nyEC4TTOCCxygARq8nF/42Y9C27HxGEigUEHWg3tA=; X-YMail-OSG: pQn_IAAVM1m45gvMqTJylOxjy2aHcjoANvG7TQKX Received: from [69.183.31.113] by web51311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:54:10 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:54:10 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli Subject: RE: [h-cost] cloak clasps To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <301934.28889.qm@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45591404.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:55:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 870d460f-ece5-432f-a762-cff72e8b6130 Status: RO Cloak and Dagger Creations is definately in the US. Ann in CT somewhat associated, yadda yadda. ;) --- otsisto wrote: > Cloak and Dagger. have not ordered from them and > have no clue other then > they might be in the US. > http://www.cloakmaker.com/clasps/european.html > > De ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 19:56:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0udfD007439 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:56:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE0uUmK010299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:56:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE0svlq020923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:54:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0suZ6043571; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:54:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE0spPo043419 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:54:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.577.90e8f3b (42809) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:54:44 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <577.90e8f3b.328a6dd4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:54:44 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559143E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:56:38 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 40c19d11-b18a-4884-b2c8-32c1aa58312f Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2006 7:51:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca writes: On another list I am on, a topic coming up regarding the relevance the colour blue is to Jewish women came up, relative to the Book of Judith and all the spin off paintings it has created particularly in Italian ren paintings. Wow! This stirred up a really vague memory of an article I read, probably 15 years ago about a special blue dye--if memory serves, it came from the Mediterranean, and was, similar to Tyrian purple, a shell-fish based vat dye. And it was used by the Hebrews and, again if I'm remembering right, had a ritual significance. As I said, my memories of the article are very vague--maybe someone will be able to fill in. Am I even right, that the dye in question was blue? Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 20:02:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE12rhr007582 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:02:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE12jZu016792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:02:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE115V1021671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:01:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE111A2049353; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:01:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.200.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE10wxS049224 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:01:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2006111401005301400mgoaoe>; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:00:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> References: <200611131900.kADJ0JjI033168@net.indra.com> <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Message-Id: From: Lauren Walker Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric question Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:00:51 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455915B5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:02:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7746f853-ad19-4b80-a463-22372b14986e Status: RO It's another variation on sheer, crisp silk. On Nov 13, 2006, at 4:46 PM, tearoses@aol.com wrote: > I'm sure someone on this list can answer this question for me: What > the heck is silk > > gazar fabric? > > http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=M162_ > > > > Thanks! > > Tea Rose > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and > security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from > across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 20:18:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1I1D4008015 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:18:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE1Hvj7004305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:18:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE1F6UJ023985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:15:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1F4Gq062558; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:15:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.191]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE1F0GH062423 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:15:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 42419 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 01:14:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=tNZ3tSnTEp48qaEN1It4QkzddvPaP02z0/auGKNIGK/rGrW+t4LgYjH7OTS8KEIW6mpoHPDodv+lWmQASnDw9xeP56MS8sGkbgZPIWvLycp9d8wc9CmrEoWXXw1Id/6wyxh/z2f4CIxN7DyVUnX6tYNJPm2YCwtztImM1XNLYRY= ; Message-ID: <20061114011455.42415.qmail@web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:14:55 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:14:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45591945.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:18:01 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ae45c5ad-41fe-4150-8c01-f119da3d6047 Status: RO Sorry. I may have been updating at the time. Please try again. Lady Von Gail & Scott Finke wrote: I have Internet Explorer, and it doesn't work for me either. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 20:30:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1U6ad008328 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:30:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE1U31l004464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:30:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE1S2XP026717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:28:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1S0hV076740; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:28:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE1RuQu076563 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:27:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 71335 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 01:27:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=LDhpnSF9NQAGw5ldyRHe5xzm2v8gIG/2wvYNUtojmzGsTj9D+t4hX8YvPWSR30bCC054jC6NykBOCoLpaiOL6oPdYmv1NgdvKe10VeebD6KljIS1i+E31i/3EsAVdNky+VVns/zNtZsrT5nxaEtUReDgcJ4uES6pzk8aLfpxBXQ=; X-YMail-OSG: pSBlDcIVM1kf5vprCovA45r6SsGAyxU92uv2YDECQyfpQrYOw9IxSvBcZWxZNyZvNOlgjzBMmwp15027Enxn.k99MbuPLW6rshVD.FKo.VQJV5yeJNXU_EvxYzVgHZ1Mqlwv9RVs7jSUzgA- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:27:51 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:27:51 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] French hoods (was Tudor Tailor -- another review) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <45587F35.30303@faucet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <607906.49563.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45591C1B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:30:06 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: cb1f5f37-2be2-4c34-81bf-81b24402a7e3 Status: RO The illumination was only recently found in a friends book on illuminations, so it is new online. When I saw the image I knew that it was the key image on French hoods since it clearly shows three angles, including that tube. I knew the Mary Tudor coin held a key, as well as the French woodcut, but when it shows up in full color, there is no mistaking any of the details. The reason why I will remake the whole thing is my hood has only the front portion with no backside or under coif. With the new image, I now believe it is a full coif as the base, with everything else added to that coif. Or at least that is my take on the image. On your gown and French hood, I love how you look in the whole thing. Very beautifully done. And I agree about that dark hood in a dark background being hard to capture. But you look so very good. Kimiko Melanie Schuessler wrote: Kimiko Small wrote: > http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1530/BathshebaHead1.html Yes, this is another great one and is the earliest profile of the French hood that I've seen (earlier ones are of the transition style just before)--I just didn't know it was online anywhere. Danielle Nunn-Weinberg pointed it out to me. It does look nice, and is a very good example of that construction. Perhaps you can use the front and just replace the back? >I would love to see yours when you are done. It's online, though you can't really see the back very well, at http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/yellow.html (especially the second picture) Taking pictures of this made me appreciate why it's so hard to see the details of the backs of French hoods in non-profile paintings--black velvet (and black fabric in general) just doesn't reflect light very well! Melanie --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 20:32:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1WLu9008376 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:32:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE1WG50004652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:32:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE1TeDg027058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:29:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1Tcbf078567; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:29:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1TZMZ078492 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:29:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24531 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:14:14 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:14:14 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith In-Reply-To: <577.90e8f3b.328a6dd4@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45591CA0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:32:21 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e7e131f6-4df7-4ee5-90ed-dcb67dacdf75 Status: RO On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > Wow! This stirred up a really vague memory of an article I read, > probably 15 years ago about a special blue dye--if memory serves, it > came from the Mediterranean, and was, similar to Tyrian purple, a > shell-fish based vat dye. And it was used by the Hebrews and, again > if I'm remembering right, had a ritual significance. If it's shellfish-based, it would be unlikely to be used by the Hebrews, at least not post-Sinai, as it would be considered unclean per the kosher law in Leviticus. It's worth noting, though, that actual Jewish practice may or may not be relevant to color symbolism in Christian painting. Time and place are particularly relevant here. In some Christian art, Jews are signified by elements of clothing that were designated to Jews by law in a particular place at a particular time. So, depending on where and when the art was produced, you might see pointed hats, or yellow badges, or stripes, or other devices to designate Jewish characters -- but not all at the same time or place, and the same elements might mean something quite different in another school of art. Blue is a traditionally "Jewish" color (the Israeli flag echoes that), but I can't recall hearing that this is apparent in Christian art, though perhaps at some time and place it was. In medieval Christian art, ultramarine blue has long been associated with the Virgin -- usually in her mantle or robe -- because it was the most expensive available pigment. (That particular shade is distinct from the woad/indigo blue that was available for clothing.) For the same reason, artists in various periods used ultramarine blue to designate certain saints, kings, or important figures in paintings. I remember noticing significant use of ultramarine blue at an exhibit of paintings by the Gentilischis (both father and daughter), and they painted a lot of Judiths and other Biblical heroines, but I don't know if that was a "Jewish" thing in particular or just an "important person" designator. By contrast, their Jewish heroines often had turban-like headwraps, fringes, and other elements of dress that clearly meant to mark them as Jews/Biblical characters. But now I am way out of my depth, as I don't have much familiarity with color symbolism in Italian Renaissance or Baroque art. Someone else may have a better clue here. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 20:33:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1XOf8008411 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:33:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE1XKmA018597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:33:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE1VUCr027393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:31:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1VQjA080442; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:31:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32215.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32215.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE1Udxo079556 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:31:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 47891 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 01:30:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=X0OVzDJHBhFDAorUFV9JzPjknCb5rDhgdj9madvrrk8o4mr/kTbf5K1KmvwvpSwOershShWJWrkFPwn24WUArwxOA5rXVUfo0NfTf20HP35BlLcDN+b1RnuVwi8Afg773o7L2ZlU1PLiHskhxmiz1xrHBbtCF/8AHE7Krw1K7rE=; X-YMail-OSG: U_FlEa0VM1lwyhIXwbfrbk3HmoXE7h_FxcJ7NLQrOfocEhRcnPjwoC_kqdkqecc4RVQU6WQ2Pvcv1srX9A.x9o4FKQhKfLOFFlKnBjmskF.4WEs6pVAKzU9KxQMRc3b65FN5Yv8SLvDYl5E- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32215.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:30:33 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:30:33 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <45587BF3.6060200@faucet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <863537.47823.qm@web32215.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45591CE0.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:33:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f2d77b90-571c-46f0-97f4-c471ce161277 Status: RO May I ask what hair style you wear under your hood? I tried the styles mentioned in the Tudor Tailor, and my hair is so thick it wants to fall off my head, and pins are of almost no help. I have mid-back length hair, if that is long enough. Kimiko Melanie Schuessler wrote: Yes, I've seen it used for that as well in a Tudor play. If you don't have enough hair to do the anchoring hairstyle underneath, that's a good workaround. When I've worn mine (made based on my hypotheses and with the proper hairstyle underneath), it was like a rock. No movement whatsoever. Melanie --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 20:41:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1fmgc008608 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:41:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE1fjL9013006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:41:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE1ebEF029810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:40:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1eWc5090389; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail9.tpgi.com.au (mail9.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1eMfp090181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:40:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-244-220-243.tpgi.com.au [220.244.220.243]) by mail9.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE1eK9N019671 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:40:21 +1100 Message-ID: <00dc01c7078d$d7741280$f3dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <863537.47823.qm@web32215.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:40:17 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45591ED9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:41:48 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7c635c5d-7335-4bfd-ba73-680ad3e0d327 Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review > May I ask what hair style you wear under your hood? I tried the styles > mentioned in the Tudor Tailor, and my hair is so thick it wants to fall > off my head, and pins are of almost no help. I have mid-back length hair, > if that is long enough. > > Kimiko > Have you tried taping or sewing the braids in place? like this http://www.mfgraffix.com/hird/faoilt/hairtape.html or this http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/hair/Hair%20taping.htm it should be more secure that way. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 20:45:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1jd7s008718 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:45:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE1jZkA028835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:45:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE1dOER029313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:39:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1dM6D089082; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:39:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1d0dZ088725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:39:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from cpanel by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GjnGS-00051u-Tn for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:39:04 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) by www.formfunction.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:39:04 -0600 Message-ID: <20061113193904.4kzbeej5foitwocc@www.formfunction.org> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:39:04 -0600 From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric question References: <200611131900.kADJ0JjI033168@net.indra.com> <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8D58444EDEFFB-B34-67F@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45591FBF.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:45:39 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e48209d3-ef4c-4392-91b7-357cd5f2a135 Status: RO Quoting tearoses@aol.com: > I'm sure someone on this list can answer this question for me: What > the heck is silk gazar fabric? > http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=M162_ Picture a heavy organza that's shiny/satiny on one side, at least when purchased from FFC. I got some of their gazar, and though it was absolutely GORGEOUS, it was also a nightmare to sew. If I hadn't been making the dress for a client who loved the fabric, I would have thrown it out. Or better yet, had a bonfire. It catches and runs and is so slippery you think you're going insane, and the dye job doesn't quite go all the way through--if the fabric gets creased you can iron it ou, but you'll have a pale line where the crease was. But it is gorgeous. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:10:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2AURF009328 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:10:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2AOPC001101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:10:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE29qHA036863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:09:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE29mih022421; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:09:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE29ggM022244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:09:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from cpanel by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GjnkB-0000fG-4u for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:09:47 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) by www.formfunction.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:09:47 -0600 Message-ID: <20061113200947.q04tu692sekw8c0g@www.formfunction.org> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:09:47 -0600 From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith References: <577.90e8f3b.328a6dd4@aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061113173638.025523e8@surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113173638.025523e8@surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAE29ggM022244 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45592590.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:10:30 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 65f53032-be32-4573-962d-3249aa04d84b Status: RO To split off from the actual topic, I recently had a tv show on in the background whilst working, and caught a few details about the dye used to produce the tekhelet blue as prescribed in the Torah & described in the Talmud. The animal used for it, the hillazon, is now a mystery, but the cuttlefish has become a popular suspect. They showed dye made from the cuttlefish and various other suspects, which was quite beautiful (lavender/sky blue). I was fascinated, and wished that I'd been able to pay closer attention (can't quite remember the name of the show, either--possibly the Naked Archaeologist on History Int'l?). Anyway, the reason it sprang to mind is that the blue that all of the suspects they offered for the mysterious hillazon produced dye that looked nothing whatsoever like the typical lapis blue used in illuminations/paintings. That means little, as paint colors don't directly reflect fabric colors, but there you go. The color was obtainable by available paints, but it's not used; I have, however, seen a painting where the tekhelet color was combined with fringe, though the color may have just been a coincidence there! Rambling, now. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:22:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2M8u7009619 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2M48R008897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE2J37H038451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:19:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2INbk030796; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:18:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE2Hlva030269 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:18:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCXUK2XAUF9GNJ for (sender ); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:16:53 -0800 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7hRIK3rAqaHI40XDo4ER4Vnz4fRt7MKuJA== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L64S3NXP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:16:19 PST To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:15:18 -0600 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith Message-ID: <20061113.201519.1832.0.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.49 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-17,23-24,28-29 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 10:5:880425608 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m02.lax.untd.com|llwatts@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559284C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:08 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8c8491c1-d747-47bf-aaf8-677385874e02 Status: RO >> On another list I am on, a topic coming up regarding the relevance >> the >> colour blue is to Jewish women came up, relative to the Book of >> Judith and all the >> spin off paintings it has created particularly in Italian ren >> paintings. > > > Wow! This stirred up a really vague memory of an article I read, > probably > 15 years ago about a special blue dye--if memory serves, it came > from the > Mediterranean, and was, similar to Tyrian purple, a shell-fish based > vat dye. > And it was used by the Hebrews and, again if I'm remembering right, > had a > ritual significance. I was channel-skimming at a friend's this past weekend, and caught part of a show called "Naked Archaologist" that was discussing a snail-based blue dye. In the section I saw, the show host was talking with someone who had been working on reconstructing the dye recipe based on some comments in the Talmud (or the commentaries on the Talmud, I'm not sure which). I think this show was either on History International or one of the Discovery Channel spin-offs. If it's History International, odds are it'll be rerun. I'll check next week while cat-sitting and see if I can find it again. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:22:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2MWk3009623 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2MSlW028312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE2Jlog038690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:19:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2JkOA032136; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:19:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2JfFK031959 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:19:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.9e.5d4300d9 (60463) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:19:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by ciaaol-r04.mx.aol.com (v114.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLR044-ec2f455927b3256; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:19:32 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:19:31 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45592864.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:32 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 925e1f54-5bbe-431b-876b-58a068b0f707 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kAE2MWk3009623 Status: RO I thought it was just me. I have Internet Explorer and it doesn't work for me, either. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Nov 13, 2006, at 6:42 PM, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > I have Internet Explorer, and it doesn't work for me either. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:29:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2TV8E009764 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:29:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2TSs6014643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:29:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE2PfmU040524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:25:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2Pdq6039016; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:25:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2PalU038882 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:25:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from PasoVasz@aol.com) Received: from PasoVasz@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.be5.8a3689b (52332) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:25:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.0.104] (host-24-225-211-205.patmedia.net [24.225.211.205]) by ciaaol-d04.mail.aol.com (v114.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLD0410-cc6c45592915306; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:25:26 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <20061114011455.42415.qmail@web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061114011455.42415.qmail@web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: Susan Data-Samtak Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:25:25 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-AOL-IP: 24.225.211.205 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45592A08.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:29:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fae7931e-87a9-47aa-bd61-633ad83f43ed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kAE2TV8E009764 Status: RO This is all I get. No links, nothing else. I can't see anything! Help! <> Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for".  - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Nov 13, 2006, at 8:14 PM, Voncile W. Dudley wrote: > Sorry. I may have been updating at the time. Please try again. > Lady Von > > Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > I have Internet Explorer, and it doesn't work for me either. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Lady Von > > http://www.wildthangstreasures.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:36:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2aj1s009876 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:36:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2afvO023970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:36:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE2UxOt041446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:31:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2UuBg044067; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:30:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2UpKQ043990 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:30:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m105.in-tch.com [216.166.191.105]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAE2IYG11946 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:18:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001401c70796$14774c80$69bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion><20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com><20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com><06960d7af2d4fdbf1e90f5fe6ad6ce12@ntw.net><002101c706e7$bf5e7880$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:39:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45592BB9.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:36:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: cc71ee47-2d80-4c30-bb07-dff6243972b9 Status: RO I wasn't including cutting time in that estimate--I was thinking in more industrial/mass quantity terms. If you're doing a whole bunch of that sort of thing all at once, you can get really fast at it, and the type of machine you have can greatly assist in that. The website didn't say anything, that I recall, about types of seams used, or finishings on the insides, outside of the mention of the dress being half-lined. So I more or less assumed that it was serged or something similar. More labor-intensive, detail-oriented choices would of course take more time! And I certainly wouldn't want anyone doing this sort of work to under-pay themselves! It's just that I've only ever done sewing as either a strictly recreational thing, or in an industrial setting, so my costuming experiences may likely differ from other people, who are doing it on a more of a "cottage industry" scale. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > You must sew awfully fast. I've been sewing most all my life and I can > see that taking me a couple days, including cutting of course, so that > would bring my price, just for labor, up to $400. I don' think the > asking price is unreasonable. My garments are quite well made, though, > and fully lined if necessary. > > Sylrog > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a > > complete > > tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal > > with maps > > and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my > > sewing for > > fun. > > --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > > > > >> Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a > >> gown? > >> > >> On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >> > >>> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > >>> > >>>> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at > >>>> those > >>>> prices. > >>> > >>> Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! > >>> > >>> susan > >>> ----- > >>> Susan Farmer > >>> sfarmer@goldsword.com > >>> University of Tennessee > >>> Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > >>> http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> h-costume mailing list > >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:48:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2mvkA010145 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:48:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2msL8030737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:48:57 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE2mL0Y044392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:48:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2mGrP060854; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:48:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc14.comcast.net (alnrmhc14.comcast.net [206.18.177.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2mCkt060702 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:48:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (failure[71.196.218.99]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc14) with SMTP id <20061114024807b1400s2hsoe>; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:48:07 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) In-Reply-To: <001401c70796$14774c80$69bfa6d8@pavilion> References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion><20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com><20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com><06960d7af2d4fdbf1e90f5fe6ad6ce12@ntw.net><002101c706e7$bf5e7880$d9bfa6d8@pavilion> <001401c70796$14774c80$69bfa6d8@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <13ca1ab070e501953135bfff8733bfb2@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:47:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45592E96.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:48:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 47d63be0-4c4e-433d-a86a-5bf2b256aaae Status: RO I sew for a living (among other things) and I don't like to rush myself too much. I certainly don't sew fast by commercial industrial standards. That would be too stressful and not at all enjoyable. I was thinking of the dress being lined, faced, etc, when I said it would probably take me a couple days. And I don't sew and serge at the same time. I prefer to sew my seams and then serge them, in case I have to take something out. I realize sewing and serging in one step cuts out a lot of extra time. SYlrog On Nov 13, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I wasn't including cutting time in that estimate--I was thinking in > more > industrial/mass quantity terms. If you're doing a whole bunch of that > sort > of thing all at once, you can get really fast at it, and the type of > machine > you have can greatly assist in that. The website didn't say anything, > that > I recall, about types of seams used, or finishings on the insides, > outside > of the mention of the dress being half-lined. So I more or less > assumed > that it was serged or something similar. More labor-intensive, > detail-oriented choices would of course take more time! And I certainly > wouldn't want anyone doing this sort of work to under-pay themselves! > It's > just that I've only ever done sewing as either a strictly recreational > thing, or in an industrial setting, so my costuming experiences may > likely > differ from other people, who are doing it on a more of a "cottage > industry" > scale. > --Sue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:25 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > >> You must sew awfully fast. I've been sewing most all my life and I >> can >> see that taking me a couple days, including cutting of course, so that >> would bring my price, just for labor, up to $400. I don' think the >> asking price is unreasonable. My garments are quite well made, >> though, >> and fully lined if necessary. >> >> Sylrog >> >> On Nov 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: >> >>> With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a >>> complete >>> tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal >>> with maps >>> and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my >>> sewing for >>> fun. >>> --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sylvia Rognstad" >>> To: "Historical Costume" >>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? >>> >>> >>>> Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a >>>> gown? >>>> >>>> On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: >>>> >>>>> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : >>>>> >>>>>> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at >>>>>> those >>>>>> prices. >>>>> >>>>> Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! >>>>> >>>>> susan >>>>> ----- >>>>> Susan Farmer >>>>> sfarmer@goldsword.com >>>>> University of Tennessee >>>>> Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology >>>>> http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> h-costume mailing list >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> h-costume mailing list >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> h-costume mailing list >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:52:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2qOa7010278 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:52:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2qLB2023174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:52:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE2q7F0045040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:52:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2q3tQ064360; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:52:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2pxcR064103 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:52:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m105.in-tch.com [216.166.191.105]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAE2dbG17997 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:39:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <009e01c70799$054754a0$69bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061113142354.68133.qmail@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:00:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45592F65.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:52:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 84c3465e-959c-4955-b340-40320d1dab6e Status: RO Answered privately. --Sue (from Montana) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Voncile W. Dudley" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > WOW ! !! I use a regular machine and it takes me a whillllllllle to finish a beautiful garment of this nature. The gown can be constructed using less expensive but good quality fabric. It would take that long to just lay and cut the pattern (or least for me) but then I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and take frequent breaks but still if I worked straight through it would take much longer than 2 hours. That is fantastic sewing. I love to sew the Ren garb but I also provide garments for today's fashion depending on the customer. > > Anyway, not all of us who sew for others provide cr@p! > > Just my 2 cents worth. > Lady Von > > Sue Clemenger wrote: > With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a complete > tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal with maps > and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my sewing for > fun. > --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > > > Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a gown? > > > > On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > > > > > Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > > > > > >> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at > > >> those > > >> prices. > > > > > > Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! > > > > > > susan > > > ----- > > > Susan Farmer > > > sfarmer@goldsword.com > > > University of Tennessee > > > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > > > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > h-costume mailing list > > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Lady Von > > http://www.wildthangstreasures.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:52:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2qoVH010287 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:52:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2qlfj001899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:52:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE2punB044967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2pqdd064077; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2pWLV063710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:51:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAE3oB5Y021851 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:50:11 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:56:52 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <20061114011455.42415.qmail@web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061114011455.42415.qmail@web33913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611132156.52310.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45592F7F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:52:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 34d14167-0553-4068-8980-5d1f161956e5 Status: RO On Monday 13 November 2006 8:14 pm, Voncile W. Dudley wrote: > Sorry. I may have been updating at the time. Please try again. It still doesn't work for me under either Firefox or Mozilla. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 21:58:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2wiTs010460 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:58:44 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE2wcUO028645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:58:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE2vvgl046086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:57:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2vtka069855; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:57:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE2vovU069770 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:57:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m105.in-tch.com [216.166.191.105]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAE2jYG19747 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:45:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <00b101c70799$d9c05600$69bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061112184607.72095.qmail@web56711.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000001c706c5$daaddda0$a7bfa6d8@pavilion><20061112212859.1r5yhca294j4oo4k@www.goldsword.com><20061112222738.c3b35j2x1fas884o@www.goldsword.com><06960d7af2d4fdbf1e90f5fe6ad6ce12@ntw.net><002101c706e7$bf5e7880$d9bfa6d8@pavilion><001401c70796$14774c80$69bfa6d8@pavilion> <13ca1ab070e501953135bfff8733bfb2@ntw.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:06:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455930DE.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:58:44 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5940f5e0-8dbd-412f-bc8a-bd68678d9751 Status: RO Absolutely! I may have been making incorrect assumptions about the construction of this dress, but the website wasn't exactly forthcoming with details! ;o) I've not really ever bought historically-themed clothing or costumes, as I usually make my own, but I have definitely purchased my share of off-the-rack clothing over the years, and have looked at some items that friends have purchased. There's an awfully wide range of construction options out there, and certainly, an item that was more carefully constructed would be worthy of a higher asking price. I just don't assume the reverse, especially given that the website didn't provide many details, which I've seen a number of others do, especially when they're aiming at a reenactor's market, in which authentic construction is a definite selling point for some folks. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > I sew for a living (among other things) and I don't like to rush myself > too much. I certainly don't sew fast by commercial industrial > standards. That would be too stressful and not at all enjoyable. I > was thinking of the dress being lined, faced, etc, when I said it would > probably take me a couple days. And I don't sew and serge at the same > time. I prefer to sew my seams and then serge them, in case I have to > take something out. I realize sewing and serging in one step cuts out > a lot of extra time. > > SYlrog > > On Nov 13, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > I wasn't including cutting time in that estimate--I was thinking in > > more > > industrial/mass quantity terms. If you're doing a whole bunch of that > > sort > > of thing all at once, you can get really fast at it, and the type of > > machine > > you have can greatly assist in that. The website didn't say anything, > > that > > I recall, about types of seams used, or finishings on the insides, > > outside > > of the mention of the dress being half-lined. So I more or less > > assumed > > that it was serged or something similar. More labor-intensive, > > detail-oriented choices would of course take more time! And I certainly > > wouldn't want anyone doing this sort of work to under-pay themselves! > > It's > > just that I've only ever done sewing as either a strictly recreational > > thing, or in an industrial setting, so my costuming experiences may > > likely > > differ from other people, who are doing it on a more of a "cottage > > industry" > > scale. > > --Sue > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:25 AM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > > > > >> You must sew awfully fast. I've been sewing most all my life and I > >> can > >> see that taking me a couple days, including cutting of course, so that > >> would bring my price, just for labor, up to $400. I don' think the > >> asking price is unreasonable. My garments are quite well made, > >> though, > >> and fully lined if necessary. > >> > >> Sylrog > >> > >> On Nov 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> > >>> With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a > >>> complete > >>> tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal > >>> with maps > >>> and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my > >>> sewing for > >>> fun. > >>> --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > >>> To: "Historical Costume" > >>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > >>> > >>> > >>>> Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a > >>>> gown? > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > >>>>> > >>>>>> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at > >>>>>> those > >>>>>> prices. > >>>>> > >>>>> Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! > >>>>> > >>>>> susan > >>>>> ----- > >>>>> Susan Farmer > >>>>> sfarmer@goldsword.com > >>>>> University of Tennessee > >>>>> Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > >>>>> http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> h-costume mailing list > >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 22:30:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE3URA0010998 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:30:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE3UNZa022404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:30:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE3Rmoj051589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:27:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE3RfKt098989; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:27:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE3RaPw098888 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:27:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1GjoxS1v7D-00041c; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:27:35 -0500 Message-ID: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:27:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Questionable color X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559384F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:30:27 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5514de43-d6ff-4163-abfd-9670f715c5d3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kAE3URA0010998 Status: RO I am working on a 1916 designers' fashion catalog. I am not sure if something is a color or not. Please read the following ladies' dress description and let me know if you think porpoise is a color or what. The color "dove" is not capitalized when used as a color name. But the word "Porpoise" is. DESCRIPTION: "Dove" colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy blue. "Porpoise" skin silk. Vest and collar of white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons and buckle. Coat of navy blue "Porpoise" skin silk. Collar and cuffs of "dove" gabardine. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 23:09:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE49kEJ011602 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:09:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE49gqY017736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:09:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE48xQo057755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:09:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE48vjj057122; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:08:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep01.xtra.co.nz (fep01.xtra.co.nz [210.54.141.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE48pL5056945 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:08:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from michaela ([125.238.121.204]) by fep01.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20061114040836.BQDZ23450.fep01.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:08:36 +1300 Message-ID: <008f01c707a2$8f36d420$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061113142354.68133.qmail@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:08:35 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45594186.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:09:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4409ff25-9ccb-4395-aeb6-b0d337507540 Status: RO << WOW ! !! I use a regular machine and it takes me a whillllllllle to finish a beautiful garment of this nature. The gown can be constructed using less expensive but good quality fabric. It would take that long to just lay and cut the pattern (or least for me) but then I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and take frequent breaks but still if I worked straight through it would take much longer than 2 hours. That is fantastic sewing. I love to sew the Ren garb but I also provide garments for today's fashion depending on the customer.>> I have RA too and this weekend overdid the sewing a bit too much to help out a dance school. I took about 8 200mg Ibuprofen a day as well as up to 4mg prednisone (usually only on one) on top of my regular medication (including 1000mg of Naprosen)* and am still in terrific pain. The sewing trggered a massive inflamatory response (from toes to jaw with extra pain in those areas overused.) Anyway, just saying it's not just an added burden for time but for time taken to recover. That said I learnt I have indeed sped up and could be fast enough for industry standards, but couldn't keep that speed up for more than a day even with all the above precautions. European prices do tend more to the expensive but I understand that is as much to do with relative prices of materials as it does to regular living costs as well? I know various people on this list have been horrified by the prices of materials over there. My own garb will take weeks to do especially as I do so much handsewing. If it's for myself I can sew at a rate that ensures it's well done but also isn't overdoing it for my body. I will machine structual seams as I find handsewing heartbreaking to undo if I need to take material in or let it out. But then will put in linings by hand and finish hems etc that way. I have found putting in a seperate lining helps ease the hand sewing burden and am about to experiment the order I do the construction of my bodices in to see if I can reduce it even more. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com (my latest costume, Catwoman from Batman Returns only took a couple of weeks from buying material to final sewing. but again if I was healthier would have taken much less time.) * http://www.arthritis.co.za/ra.html Please read that if you have no idea about RA or even if you htink you know what arthritis is. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 23:24:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE4Olu6011753 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:24:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE4OhPB029402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:24:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE4MUfs060012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE4MSqM069412; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE4MOHv069302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:22:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from cpanel by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Gjpod-0000tY-6E for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:22:31 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) by www.formfunction.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:22:31 -0600 Message-ID: <20061113222231.poh6mevbaqecgwwo@www.formfunction.org> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:22:31 -0600 From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color References: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> In-Reply-To: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559450B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:24:47 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5a36a461-cffa-4f88-8ec3-4d78ea960cc1 Status: RO Quoting Penny Ladnier : > DESCRIPTION: > "Dove" colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy blue. "Porpoise" > skin silk. Vest and collar of white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons > and buckle. Coat of navy blue "Porpoise" skin silk. Collar and > cuffs of "dove" gabardine. Are the quotes yours, or did they appear in the original? Assuming they're yours, the conclusion I'd jump to is that 'Porpoise skin' denotes a type of fabric, rather than the color. Porpoise leather (actually from beluga, apparently) was widely used in the 18th & 19th centuries, so it wouldn't be an outlandish comparison. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 23:33:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE4XjkO011892 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:33:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE4XfWs003969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:33:44 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE4UJ6g061300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:30:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE4UGi8076490; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:30:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE4UCSK076431 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:30:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1Gjpw233ly-0003yR; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:30:11 -0500 Message-ID: <003c01c707a5$93943370$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> <20061113222231.poh6mevbaqecgwwo@www.formfunction.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:30:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45594725.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:33:44 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 0afc9f0a-ed6e-4873-86bf-395cfa41363c Status: RO E House, The quotation marks are what is in the book. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 13 23:54:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE4sDK4012209 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:54:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE4s9al018981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:54:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE4raqh065504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:53:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE4rXbu099069; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:53:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE4rU6H099004 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:53:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 7070 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2006 20:53:25 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 7008, pid: 7055, t: 1.3877s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 13 Nov 2006 20:53:23 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113205050.02639678@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:53:12 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color In-Reply-To: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> References: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45594BF1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:54:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f9b0e4de-bae8-4b58-9b52-03832def0b5c Status: RO At 07:27 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote: >I am working on a 1916 designers' fashion catalog. I am not sure if >something is a color or not. Please read the following ladies' >dress description and let me know if you think porpoise is a color >or what. The color "dove" is not capitalized when used as a color >name. But the word "Porpoise" is. > >DESCRIPTION: >"Dove" colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy blue. "Porpoise" >skin silk. Vest and collar of white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons >and buckle. Coat of navy blue "Porpoise" skin silk. Collar and >cuffs of "dove" gabardine. > >Penny Ladnier, >Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites >www.costumegallery.com >www.costumelibrary.com >www.costumeclassroom.com >www.costumeencyclopedia.com Since the second reference to "Porpoise" skin is for the navy blue coat, my guess is that the "Porpoise" skin refers to the texture of the silk, not the color. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:18:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5I7lT012690 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:18:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5I3rr005791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:18:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE5GMAY069691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:16:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5GJAK020478; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:16:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE5GFi3020349 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:16:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 71352 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 05:16:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=0ihvlwYdguJjCRnHvw9Upxwbz/CB+OwW1/t1pqyKRQw7FlhU/Hf4CtcB88rUISlf7ldqFOIZeNPgn63e/I0llKsI6GhBW+Kui60RF4oeMqIWyDYZ2rnyGaPZBhUXKxNyhc+GaGvFwX8SoEcu59f8T2g+WcY0a8kcmrVLm3+A+UY=; X-YMail-OSG: bzKs5scVM1k.mjGRuRwcPnU1DMV_2_YgiQDkdS5eOoA3YBass7GH8loO7FpmX6oMsotqiCdmnMfKe5.EoIxzhaL.pFareGm351v7eYppQaDmREVIEABUvhS795KE5Oi.45Ut731t7axpUIA- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:16:09 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:16:09 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00dc01c7078d$d7741280$f3dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <943442.69427.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559518B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:18:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 391218ba-15e4-405c-88ab-98f31e71ac33 Status: RO Hi Elizabeth, Yes, I've tried the hair taping (as seen in the second link you gave), and it will only stay on my head if I then wrap the hair in a kertch. It won't stay up on its own, and it wouldn't stay stable for a base for the French hood. Also, it falls apart in the kertch that I wore, and only the wrapping of the fabric around my head kept it from coming down. Maybe it is because I am doing my own hair, it is very thick, and I really don't do much practice in hair braiding in general. I am not sure what else to try, so I gladly will accept suggestions. Kimiko Elizabeth Walpole wrote: Have you tried taping or sewing the braids in place? like this http://www.mfgraffix.com/hird/faoilt/hairtape.html or this http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/hair/Hair%20taping.htm it should be more secure that way. Elizabeth --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:23:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5Mv91012765 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:22:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5MrLE009186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:22:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE1eD7Z029676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:40:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE1eCR2089973; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:40:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE1e7rO089875 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:40:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 18661 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2006 17:40:06 -0800 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 18535, pid: 18614, t: 4.7231s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:40/d:2019 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.102) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 13 Nov 2006 17:40:01 -0800 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113173638.025523e8@surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:39:41 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith In-Reply-To: <577.90e8f3b.328a6dd4@aol.com> References: <577.90e8f3b.328a6dd4@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455952AD.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:22:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9afabe0a-e85f-41b4-b4bf-a825d40e2dfd Status: RO At 04:54 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 11/13/2006 7:51:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca writes: > >On another list I am on, a topic coming up regarding the relevance the >colour blue is to Jewish women came up, relative to the Book of >Judith and all the > spin off paintings it has created particularly in Italian ren paintings. > > > >Wow! This stirred up a really vague memory of an article I read, probably >15 years ago about a special blue dye--if memory serves, it came from the >Mediterranean, and was, similar to Tyrian purple, a shell-fish based >vat dye. >And it was used by the Hebrews and, again if I'm remembering right, had a >ritual significance. > >As I said, my memories of the article are very vague--maybe someone will be >able to fill in. Am I even right, that the dye in question was blue? > >Ann Wass You are probably thinking about the single thread of blue included in each of the fringes (tzitzit) on the four corners of a man's garment (today it's called a tallit, or prayer shawl). I'm not aware of any special significance of blue in regards to women. It's probably something from the Christian symbolism (Robin, do you have any input on this?). Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:24:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5OWQf012805 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:24:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5OTVx010134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:24:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE5M7BX070618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:22:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5M3eM025293; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:22:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE5Lkj8024788 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:21:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 55457 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 05:21:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=HT28rRBwUqTaiCltiL04aFTU1R4FSeI4FgTlWZvH0pN3csOReOGkeTK8RgGRk0Um4i4jSJnNG5BwPhE4STwJbKYIpd5TSzOkemg810qTHnuAfe3c3EflAJcLL+UJVQFL1nHgfQxJgubmGk0hgiInE34KlvC02cHpbkhAz2lEd38=; X-YMail-OSG: 2XTccDcVM1mTguxfDa4SyA_BQxgJQ9inEj.8KfNW9AQ0KoweLgIn6cTqHcetG4gi09RGrXXuUJcYXOCN3D83DQ0hp9_KCp6Tc6yp0NdikJks87NvzNE8Ew-- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:21:30 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:21:30 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <729329.54099.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559530D.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:24:32 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 99c42b26-249d-4fed-8abe-79f62b88fd0e Status: RO Hi Penny, To me, it sounds like the texture of the silk has the appearance of Porpoise skin. I am not reading a color, but then, I don't know much about that time frame for garments. Kimiko Penny Ladnier wrote: I am working on a 1916 designers' fashion catalog. I am not sure if something is a color or not. Please read the following ladies' dress description and let me know if you think porpoise is a color or what. The color "dove" is not capitalized when used as a color name. But the word "Porpoise" is. DESCRIPTION: "Dove" colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy blue. "Porpoise" skin silk. Vest and collar of white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons and buckle. Coat of navy blue "Porpoise" skin silk. Collar and cuffs of "dove" gabardine. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:32:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5WB4E012993 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:32:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5W7Jp019989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:32:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE5VR3m072308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:31:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5VLvq033857; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:31:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5VFCO033761 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:31:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25163 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:15:55 -0600 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:15:55 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? In-Reply-To: <008f01c707a2$8f36d420$0301010a@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455954D7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:32:10 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1dba1a6b-0ef8-4173-aedf-ca63c3228eba Status: RO On Tue, 14 Nov 2006, michaela wrote: > (my latest costume, Catwoman from Batman Returns only took a couple of > weeks from buying material to final sewing. but again if I was > healthier would have taken much less time.) Of course, if you believe the movie, Michelle Pfeiffer did it all in an evening ;-) Like the movie version of Cinderella I once saw, in which she created beautiful ball gowns for both her sisters overnight (in addition to cleaning the house all day). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:33:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5XkW5013035 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:33:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5XhtY017045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:33:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE5XJ1M072612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:33:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5XI5c035576; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:33:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5XEY6035513 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:33:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m60.in-tch.com [216.166.191.60]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAE5KxG29703 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:20:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001201c707af$8fbdcb80$3cbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <729329.54099.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:41:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45595537.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:33:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 77418815-c03c-46f8-af8d-af0998efe701 Status: RO This isn't my time frame, either, but what does pop up into my brain, for some reason, is "shark skin suits." Could the connotation be similar for "porpoise skin?" --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color > Hi Penny, > > To me, it sounds like the texture of the silk has the appearance of Porpoise skin. I am not reading a color, but then, I don't know much about that time frame for garments. > > Kimiko > > Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am working on a 1916 designers' fashion catalog. I am not sure if something is a color or not. Please read the following ladies' dress description and let me know if you think porpoise is a color or what. The color "dove" is not capitalized when used as a color name. But the word "Porpoise" is. > > DESCRIPTION: > "Dove" colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy blue. "Porpoise" skin silk. Vest and collar of white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons and buckle. Coat of navy blue "Porpoise" skin silk. Collar and cuffs of "dove" gabardine. > > Penny Ladnier, > Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites > www.costumegallery.com > www.costumelibrary.com > www.costumeclassroom.com > www.costumeencyclopedia.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:40:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5eT9D013179 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:40:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5eNea022176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:40:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE5dI8o073862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:39:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5dEV9041260; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:39:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2a.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5d83I041163 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:39:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 97CA835299 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:39:07 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:39:22 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20061113215937.7233.qmail@web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455956C7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:40:28 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9e4c1246-7a23-4ba7-9e05-cd333224cc32 Status: RO Posting any question will lead to various replies. No one doubts the woman's work. What has been happening is a critiquing of the style of the garment. I believe what is pushing a few buttons are that this garment is being presented or implied as a gown that would have been worn during the Middle Ages and this kind o' rankles a few who are seriously into authentic. Plus the thought of "possible" misinformation being passed on to people can make one annoyed. I have emailed to see if she has docs. as her Burgundian rendition and French gown seems to have some research behind it so perhaps she has found a source. Personally, I like the dress though I would change a few things like the white trim and remove the modern princess seams but the colour is a fine combination. If I had the figure to wear this, I probably wouldn't wear it to an Medieval SCA event as I like to shoot little higher on the "authenticity" meter but I would wear it to a RenFaire, Costume Convention or a SCI-FI convention. I do not believe that anyone on this list has been ripping the woman to shreds but I believe that her gown has been harshly critiqued by a few. I am glad that you brought up the gore question because there is always the possibility that someone has found hard proof of it and I have never seen this company before and probably would not have if you had not asked the question. And though I probably will not order from them (as I am in the US and can't afford them) I like to see people's rendition of garments as much as looking at extent garments. :) De -----Original Message----- Now I feel really bad about posting this "gores question". The picture just kind of caught my eye, as I'd heard some people telling me that contrasting gores were accurate in the middle ages - a fact that I wasn't very sure of. So I just wanted to ask. It wasn't meant to doubt the lady's work at all. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:47:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5lpK6013323 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:47:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5llet027265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:47:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE5j3rW075157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:45:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5j1C7046898; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:45:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2a.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5itQ5046818 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:44:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9238C3520D for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:44:55 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:45:10 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <943442.69427.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45595883.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:47:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c794af1c-1ac8-44a5-92f4-cf09110f3f40 Status: RO Sorry getting in the middle of the topic. Have you tried braiding your hair when wet or with a little gel or mousse? Usually it isn't thick hair that is the problem but how smooth/slick the strands are. De -----Original Message----- Hi Elizabeth, Yes, I've tried the hair taping (as seen in the second link you gave), and it will only stay on my head if I then wrap the hair in a kertch. It won't stay up on its own, and it wouldn't stay stable for a base for the French hood. Also, it falls apart in the kertch that I wore, and only the wrapping of the fabric around my head kept it from coming down. Maybe it is because I am doing my own hair, it is very thick, and I really don't do much practice in hair braiding in general. I am not sure what else to try, so I gladly will accept suggestions. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:52:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5qODC013439 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:52:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5qLKE030533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:52:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE5oc9G076043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:50:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5oaop052239; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:50:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.134]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE5oWFZ052098 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:50:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 86448 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 05:50:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=1zNwoecGCvuFn6sH9dtx6TgSJxsdk0bhZYelCQg9ZMsUmFUlc0LE5+NqSB3bFzg03bzuaf2blQ2Jiy+Ao5jOgh993p0UN3W3aIh2Oelszw7Ue51615e2YCsfU0DMja85Xs2QDQWQvUFbhQPbtzR664QIFjfGgJbrFAfVYb7Am20=; X-YMail-OSG: jsUbdSoVM1lYlkRaknzEGPDKtl8n.CzgfXa94c0s6pjZfCuYOLpEJsbPDvE2OA5ZBba4BvrZp.69J_Kuh8LzyDrYXmloC6DoStD.Pqt7TXglU5Gw.gvhORBETrlc6SbE_ci1kus9XbRPmoo- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:50:27 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:50:27 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <248251.86163.qm@web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45595995.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:52:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d1aed817-2c7a-4511-a536-4230f3372e31 Status: RO Hi De, I don't mind you jumping in a bit. I have braided my hair when wet, as it is easier to control usually. But I haven't thought of adding gel or mousse to the hair. I will have to try that next time, and see if that helps. It should also help the front hairs stay in place, as it gets a bit fluffy on top. Thanks for the suggestion. Kimiko otsisto wrote: Sorry getting in the middle of the topic. Have you tried braiding your hair when wet or with a little gel or mousse? Usually it isn't thick hair that is the problem but how smooth/slick the strands are. De --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 00:55:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5tPjS013508 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:55:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE5t7x3000374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:55:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE5sRDD076597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:54:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5sQED055805; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:54:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep03.xtra.co.nz (fep03.xtra.co.nz [210.54.141.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE5sL6t055648 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:54:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from michaela ([125.238.121.204]) by fep03.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20061114055410.JARL6113.fep03.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:54:10 +1300 Message-ID: <00b301c707b1$4ec249b0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middleages??? Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:54:10 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45595A3B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:55:24 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3f12124b-ce66-4733-b8ab-13d46957a8a1 Status: RO > > (my latest costume, Catwoman from Batman Returns only took a couple of > > weeks from buying material to final sewing. but again if I was > > healthier would have taken much less time.) > > Of course, if you believe the movie, Michelle Pfeiffer did it all in an > evening ;-) I incorporated this into my skit/Q&A in character in the competition;) "Don't believe the hype" type of thing;) People were most amused. I also explained you cannot getinto a catsuit that zips up the back a corset that laces up the back and knee high boots that are so closely laced while driving a small car. Certainly not while applying heavy make up and hiding all your hair under the cowl! http://costumes.glittersweet.com/other/catwoman.htm http://pulpspace.net.nz/joomla/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=30 More good photos here under "Armageddon Expo and then "cosplay." It's a flash photo gallery. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 01:10:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6A1Y6013844 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:10:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE69vVx010574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:10:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE69NLs078529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:09:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE69KO2069371; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:09:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE69Gju069298 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:09:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC0623600516; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:02:46 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:09:13 -0800 Message-ID: <008301c707b3$689df030$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <943442.69427.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAE69Gju069298 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45595DB5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:10:01 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 221916aa-a929-4c0f-b855-c3f42a0e1bee Status: RO Have you tried an inside out French braid? This would give you a little more to pin into, if needed. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kimiko Small Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:16 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Hi Elizabeth, Yes, I've tried the hair taping (as seen in the second link you gave), and it will only stay on my head if I then wrap the hair in a kertch. It won't stay up on its own, and it wouldn't stay stable for a base for the French hood. Also, it falls apart in the kertch that I wore, and only the wrapping of the fabric around my head kept it from coming down. Maybe it is because I am doing my own hair, it is very thick, and I really don't do much practice in hair braiding in general. I am not sure what else to try, so I gladly will accept suggestions. Kimiko Elizabeth Walpole wrote: Have you tried taping or sewing the braids in place? like this http://www.mfgraffix.com/hird/faoilt/hairtape.html or this http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/hair/Hair%20taping.htm it should be more secure that way. Elizabeth --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 01:11:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6B6WO013859 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:11:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE6B3tu011454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:11:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE6APK3078626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:10:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6AM0C070243; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:10:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2a.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6AIkG070175 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B62A352D6 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:10:18 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:10:33 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <248251.86163.qm@web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hair RE: Tudor Tailor -- another review X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45595DF7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:11:06 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 0dd6b160-210e-48cb-b501-be7c4c216356 Status: RO I have thick hair and thick strands so I sympathize. Been using the Fructine (sp?) stuff and I have smoother hair but keeping it in a French braid isn't easy anymore. :P Try the mousse first and if your hair still don't behave then go for the gel. De -----Original Message----- Hi De, I don't mind you jumping in a bit. I have braided my hair when wet, as it is easier to control usually. But I haven't thought of adding gel or mousse to the hair. I will have to try that next time, and see if that helps. It should also help the front hairs stay in place, as it gets a bit fluffy on top. Thanks for the suggestion. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 01:29:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6Tqo3014294 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:29:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE6TmYi022894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:29:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE6SOfM081265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:28:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6SMaC085024; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:28:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6SIri084962 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:28:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25352 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:12:58 -0600 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:12:58 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middleages??? In-Reply-To: <00b301c707b1$4ec249b0$0301010a@michaela> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559625C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:29:52 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3ee2b8a7-5aa0-4e6a-b910-069f6ebb93ff Status: RO On Tue, 14 Nov 2006, michaela wrote: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/other/catwoman.htm > http://pulpspace.net.nz/joomla/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=30 Oh my goodness, this looks brilliant! And you wear it well. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 01:39:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6dbLx014489 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:39:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE6dXQg030068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:39:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE6cvCE082826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:38:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE6cpMo093614; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:38:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAE6chBu093403 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:38:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 22076 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 06:38:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=srqGOnhfv/zVv6Uv/1j1go0pX+z7AUAQGVMRVYDhlvbVM7FaRvSVLLXrMZc3crIXg5qXEbhZUzpWf5JN0ccvFCs3SC/8nLODTjbFLUt/WQK+fj+FNs71YwlZk8lHikqs0TDxz9iFEsYvZOS7TYbclB9clvCcbk6HaeqzBNGSS7U=; X-YMail-OSG: pgrpWGEVM1muU.Kk1CIAdPjy1iQQ2K.D_.ekfdai9cMwWa0mqznoHFNmtC35PM1DixG43RarnP3YGB.3QN2VI1n10M.P4P26BkayAYTIaDGnJ7.6zd7teC6a8CKPD3JsxX1RRup_PS.yfGc- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:38:37 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:38:37 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <008301c707b3$689df030$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <985689.20317.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455964A5.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:39:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: dd1023ef-1666-48ac-b572-b104b252e71d Status: RO Hi Sharon, I had to look that one up to understand what you mean. No, I haven't tried it before. I can barely get my hair to do a regular braid, but I am willing to try it and see. Thanks! Kimiko "Sharon at Collierfam.com" wrote: Have you tried an inside out French braid? This would give you a little more to pin into, if needed. --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 03:50:44 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE8od2n011885 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:50:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE8oZ2R019527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:50:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE8nh7p004550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:49:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE8nbdC003162; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:49:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep01.xtra.co.nz (fep01.xtra.co.nz [210.54.141.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE8nWgB003034 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:49:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from michaela ([125.238.121.204]) by fep01.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20061114084926.RCQD23450.fep01.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:49:26 +1300 Message-ID: <00ce01c707c9$cb1720e0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in lateMiddleages??? Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:49:26 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559835B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:50:39 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d7ec239b-2bcf-453b-887e-ae9fed05b1e0 Status: RO > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/other/catwoman.htm > > http://pulpspace.net.nz/joomla/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=30 > > Oh my goodness, this looks brilliant! And you wear it well. Thank you:) And to keep it on h-cost topic... the corset is remarkably simialr ot the 1900 corset in Corsets and Crinolines by Waugh. The changes are: shortening the basque/hip panels, cutting it to underbust and (work CF to CB) combining the first and second body panels and the third and fourth. It's the most comfortable corset I have and I suspect it's due to the underbust and the basques. My waist to hip is atm 71cm:98cm and I can get a rather narrow waist so I think the shaping helps with that but without compressing my ribs. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com (no idea how to work the rest of the costume into h-cost territory;) Unless the 1990s are now retro enough...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 04:39:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE9d5mK020448 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:39:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAE9d2fK009061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:39:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAE9cMoo010698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:38:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE9cHJc043625; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:38:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAE9cBXo043525 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:38:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1Gjuk53mzg-00044b; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:38:11 -0500 Message-ID: <00eb01c707d0$9a54a8e0$6400a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <729329.54099.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:38:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] WW1 Ladies fashions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45598EB6.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:39:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c6367372-7db2-40c7-b6d0-765adc2d60c9 Status: RO This is not my time frame either... I guess by the end of putting this book online, I will be more familiar. There is always room in my brain to learn more. One of the most important things to know about the WW1 era, is that this was when the dress hemlines rose above the ankles. Something the 1920s is credited for. IMO, the WW1-1923 is one of the most creative eras in design history. Some of the designers in the 1916 book, I recognize from the pre-war and 1920s, like Beer, Jenny, House of Worth, Martial et Armand, Paquin, Drecoll, and Agnes. There are some designers that I don't know their background like Bernard, Bulloz, and Georgette. One designer is really bothering me named Klein... no first name was provided in the book. I have three Kleins listed in my fashion designer books. There are Anne, Calvin, and Bernat. None of them were born before 1921. So this Klein in 1916 can't be them. Any day, I am supposed to be receiving my latest edition of Survey of Historic Costume textbook. It lists fashion designers by decades. I hope some of these designers are in the book. I know a lot of these fashion designers are in my L'Art de la Mode magazines from this time frame, but the articles are written in French. I can type in French but have no idea what it means. There are small descriptions in English and French translations under most of the L'Art. images. I want to take some college French courses at the local community college. It doesn't look good for me to take classes at the university with my students. There are thumbnails from this 1916 book my Library Updates page: http://www.costumegallery.com/updates.htm . There are 18 of 50 illustrations in the Library today. I am sorry for the very small thumbnails with the larger watermark on the updates page. We have to put the large watermarks on the public access pages to discourage journal websites from linking to them. Google crawls the updates page daily, so I have to be careful with the images on this webpage. Larger images are shown in my Costume Encyclopedia, www.costumeencyclopedia.com . You can use the Encyclopedia for free. Do a search with the keyword "designer" in the Costume field/line. Today, there are 168 entries and images for designers from 1890s-1920s in the Encyclopedia. The ones shown for 1910s /1916 are the ones from this book. When you click on the "DETAILS" link you will see the medium size images. The images in the database are harder to link to, so I can put larger images. I have photographed a few dresses from the WW1 era. But they do not look like these illustrations. These 1916 dresses look like more what you would wear in the 1980s. I have found a lot of the women's designs during the entire the WW1 era look very much like the 1980s/early 1990s. I have a Delineator magazine from 1918, that shows a jumpsuit like I wore during the 1980s. The dresses in the 1916 book reminds me of the dresses the girls wore on The Cosby Show. The second dress by Agnes on the Updates page: first row, second image from the left... the hat looks just like the ones I have photographed from the VCU collection from the 1930s/40s. I do know because of the War, a lot of designers had to shelf their designs and then pull them back out after the War. So you will see a lot of leftovers designs in the 1919-1923 time frame. >From the fashion industry point-of-view, I do know how the industry had to make a lot of adjustments. I collect fashion industry publications for the 19th and 20th Centuries. I am interested on how to textile products got to the consumers. I have a few of the articles in the Library of a 1918 trade publication National Association of Retail Clothiers, http://www.costumegallery.com/1918/ . These discuss the lifting of the textile restrictions and the schedule of the release of goods. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 06:07:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEB7cUe005737 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:07:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEB7Yv7011765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:07:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEB6nqw024170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:06:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEB6aAB022507; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:06:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEB6NsO022315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:06:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from cpanel by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Gjw7P-0000eP-IB for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:06:19 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) by www.formfunction.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:06:19 -0600 Message-ID: <20061114050619.6svhtw7si8g8oocc@www.formfunction.org> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:06:19 -0600 From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hair References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559A376.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:07:37 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b407be66-b8c3-457b-8126-28992d9f0dcb Status: RO I'd be dee-lighted to hear the solution to this problem, since I have it too. My hair is fine but plentiful, and nothing I've tried seems able to hold it in place for more than 10 minutes. Argh! In fact, back in the 80s, my hair wouldn't even hold a perm for more than a week or two. I've considered the french braid thing, but haven't tried it for years--my hair may be long enough again that it'd work now (~3 inches past waist). Which leads to my other problem: since I'm growing out my hair sans trimming, I now have about 6 inches of natural layering (and split ends), which means that when I try to hide the ends of my braids, they poke out all over the place and look awful. It seems like the french braid idea would make it even harder to hide the ends, since there really wouldn't be any place to tuck them out of sight. Any bright ideas? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 06:16:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEBGBUV006993 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:16:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEBG7Y9020010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:16:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEBDGFV025132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:13:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEBDFbm028515; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:13:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEBD6ko028332 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:13:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cd9.2ef6bf0 (42807) for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:12:57 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:12:57 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559A577.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:16:11 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fe50e93e-8e98-45ad-a232-7e5a9539c217 Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2006 10:28:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: But the word "Porpoise" is. In that context, it does sound more like a description of the fabric--compare it to "sharkskin." Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 07:00:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEC0hK7017726 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:00:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEC0d5T017391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:00:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEBxghi030877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:59:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEBxc5T066415; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:59:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEBxZF7066282 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:59:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([207.46.10.110]) by bay0-omc2-s9.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:59:29 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:59:29 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 207.46.10.123 by by121fd.bay121.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:59:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [198.166.214.5] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20061113221106.8421.qmail@web52114.mail.yahoo.com> From: "Kelly Grant" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blue on Judith Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:59:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2006 11:59:29.0628 (UTC) FILETIME=[56F679C0:01C707E4] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559AFE7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:00:42 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b97e9546-5086-49d0-a5b7-9fe746925a54 Status: RO Funny how this comes up today! Last night on 'Naked Archeaologist' the show was about the colour blue in ancient times. How it was produced from the snail. The trick to getting blue from the snail was to expose the dye to sunlight. The ultra violet light produces a very vivid blue, if not exposed the dye will come out purple. I thought it was fasinating. There is also quite a controversy in some sects of the Jewish faith over the use of snails or cuttlefish to produce the dye. The archeaological evidence suggests snails though, due to the amount of snail shells at dye sites. How they suggest the dye is made rotten dried up snail caustic soda boiling water sunlight I am not a dyer, so I don't say this would work, I also don't know the quantities of each. It was interesting to see them dye the fibre though...when it first came out of the dye pot it was yellow, then once rung out of liquid and probably exposed to the air turned blue before their eyes! Discussion????? Kelly An insolent reply from a polite person is a bad sign. Hippocrates (c.460-c.370 bc), Greek physician >From: Kathy Page > >On another list I am on, a topic coming up regarding the relevance the >colour blue is to Jewish women came up, relative to the Book of Judith and >all the spin off paintings it has created particularly in Italian ren >paintings. > _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best route! Check out Live Local today! http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 07:29:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAECTmFD019338 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:29:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAECTin0009286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:29:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAECStQq035017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:28:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAECSnIi092373; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:28:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAECSgic092107 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:28:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c6d.43e95c6 (42807) for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:28:28 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:28:28 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559B6B8.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:29:48 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 0db31b4d-1823-4720-a6d9-2ed7599a2c51 Status: RO In a message dated 11/14/2006 7:00:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com writes: It was interesting to see them dye the fibre though...when it first came out of the dye pot it was yellow, then once rung out of liquid and probably exposed to the air turned blue before their eyes! Discussion????? That is how a vat dye works. The most common vat dye is, of course, indigo (also found in woad). The dye is not water soluble--needs to be chemically reduced to dissolve in water. The fabric is dipped in the vat, then as it is lifted out and exposed to air, the dyestuff re-oxidizes, and the blue color forms. Tyrian purple was also a vat dye. As the murex were killed in the process, the species was just about wiped out, but a similar dye, from a related species, is still used in central America. There, they have figured out a way to make the shellfish give up its dye without killing it. Since the color forms in the fibers, it is very fast. It is true that you get color rinsing out or rubbing off at first, but that is generally excess dye. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 08:35:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDZF5n021518 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:35:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEDZCPx006068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:35:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEDV1kx045851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:31:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDUoTA052089; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:30:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDUjfO052030 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:30:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.156.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.156] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GjyNA-0005Ls-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:30:45 -0500 Message-ID: <4559D299.3020103@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:28:41 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review References: <863537.47823.qm@web32215.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00dc01c7078d$d7741280$f3dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559C610.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:35:15 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: be5dc2e1-cf91-4044-9335-29ff65f044ab Status: RO >From: "Kimiko Small" >> May I ask what hair style you wear under your hood? I tried the styles >> mentioned in the Tudor Tailor, and my hair is so thick it wants to >> fall off my head, and pins are of almost no help. I have mid-back >> length hair, if that is long enough Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > Have you tried taping or sewing the braids in place? like this > http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/hair/Hair%20taping.htm This is the method I use. Thanks for the good website ref! Before I do the braids, though, I part in the center and roll the front of each side like this http://www.marileecody.com/isabel.jpg That keeps the front under control, and makes those little rolls along the hairline. My hair does not stay with pins, as it's too slippery (or maybe it's the shape of my head!). I have to sew the braids to the hair underneath (not just to each other) with ribbon to make it stay. Kimiko, adding gel or mousse and braiding tightly while wet will help. The product will make your hair stick to itself better, and the water will keep it all together while you're braiding. Parting it in the center and brushing to either side before braiding in two braids will also help--that way the hair you're sewing the braids to is going in the ear-to-ear direction instead of the forehead-to-nape direction, and the braids can't "slide" down the back of your head once sewn to the rest of the hair. Good luck! If I can do it with my hair (which doesn't like to stay _anywhere_), you can too. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 08:36:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDap7W021613 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:36:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEDamZ3007524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:36:51 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEDX1kx046213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:33:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDX0uT054244; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:33:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDWrx1054123 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:32:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.156.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.156] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GjyPE-0006TP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:32:52 -0500 Message-ID: <4559D319.9030708@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:30:49 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] French hoods (was Tudor Tailor -- another review) References: <607906.49563.qm@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559C670.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:36:51 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 38c2267f-b8d0-4984-b678-6294836e300e Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > The illumination was only recently found in a friends book on > illuminations, so it is new online. When I saw the image I knew that > it was the key image on French hoods since it clearly shows three > angles, including that tube. I knew the Mary Tudor coin held a key, > as well as the French woodcut, but when it shows up in full color, > there is no mistaking any of the details. Yes! Though this is still a fairly early version of the French hood. Later ones are slightly different. > The reason why I will remake the whole thing is my hood has only the > front portion with no backside or under coif. With the new image, I > now believe it is a full coif as the base, with everything else added > to that coif. Or at least that is my take on the image. I think you're right. You'll need to redo the whole back--but you might still be able to use the crescent if you can detach the first hood from it. > On your gown and French hood, I love how you look in the whole thing. > Very beautifully done. And I agree about that dark hood in a dark > background being hard to capture. But you look so very good. :) Thanks! Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 08:37:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDbP0S021644 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:37:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEDbLDs013746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:37:25 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEDZn9p046742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:35:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDZnWu057012; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:35:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDZi61056906 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:35:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.156.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.156] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GjyS0-0000Oo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:35:44 -0500 Message-ID: <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:33:41 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review) References: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> <8C8D58136B65A13-B34-4D9@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559C691.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:37:25 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1d9c1e2f-9abf-4f62-86b2-5bb880232c54 Status: RO tearoses@aol.com wrote: > Wow, that is some really cool information, Melanie. So, does that > allow you to draw any conclusions about the gable headdress?( > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownLady5.jpg) > > It almost looks like it could be the same hood, only with the fall(s) > attached on the bottom instead of the top (and, of course, there were two falls). The construction of gable hoods seems to be pretty different from the French hood, despite their probable common origins. I can't really speculate about gable hoods (think I'll quit while I'm ahead!). > I've always thought that if someone made a timeline of images showing > how the gable and French hood > headdresses evolved from earlier fashions, it would help us figure > out what's under there. But then, > maybe you would need to know what was under there before you could > make such a timeline. A timeline can definitely help. I've developed one for the French hood, and from it I can formulate hypotheses about the layers. I haven't done the same for the gable, however. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 08:51:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDph1O022075 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:51:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEDpdCS022781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:51:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEDoqfC050455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:50:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDoq1b073169; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:50:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp6.america.net (qsmtp6.america.net [69.60.160.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDolWm073094 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:50:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from [65.125.64.173] (helo=MAX.feccommunications.net) by qsmtp6.america.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GjygZ-0001pq-07 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:50:47 -0500 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061114074633.0191ff90@justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:50:43 -0600 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review In-Reply-To: <4559D299.3020103@faucet.net> References: <863537.47823.qm@web32215.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00dc01c7078d$d7741280$f3dcf4dc@user4712b7d135> <4559D299.3020103@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559C9EB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:51:43 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b86d4e6e-bd4f-49f2-81c2-ef528f5267fb Status: RO > >My hair does not stay with pins, as it's too slippery (or maybe it's >the shape of my head!). I have to sew the braids to the hair >underneath (not just to each other) with ribbon to make it stay. This is what I was going to say. I use a large needle, make sure I catch the hair underneath, and work my way slowly around my head. Do it really tight, too. Space each "stitch" about an inch or so apart, and work slowly. You'll need about 6 or 7 feet (up to two meters) to do it right, if not more. My biggest suggestion, is to do it on a day that you have a lot of time and nowhere to go. It's always more frustrating when you are on your way to an event and trying a new hairstyle. Good luck, Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 08:51:51 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDpYAI022071 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:51:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEDpVsa001543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:51:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEDntbl050127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:49:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDnpfw072088; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:49:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDnjdr071820 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:49:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 14 Nov 2006 13:49:11 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAPFWWUXUSnInh2dsb2JhbACBS4sDCQ4q Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1920 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Gjyef-0004GE-1F for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:48:49 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061114134006.033793e8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:48:02 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review) In-Reply-To: <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> References: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> <8C8D58136B65A13-B34-4D9@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559C9E3.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:51:34 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3e05bcd1-1756-41fc-a2ad-c553f00c3ba6 Status: RO At 14:33 14/11/2006, you wrote: >tearoses@aol.com wrote: > > Wow, that is some really cool information, Melanie. So, does that > > allow you to draw any conclusions about the gable headdress?( > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownLady5.jpg) > > > > It almost looks like it could be the same hood, only with the fall(s) > > attached on the bottom instead of the top (and, of course, there > were two falls). > >The construction of gable hoods seems to be pretty different from >the French hood, despite their probable common origins. I can't >really speculate about gable hoods (think I'll quit while I'm ahead!). > > > I've always thought that if someone made a timeline of images showing > > how the gable and French hood > > headdresses evolved from earlier fashions, it would help us figure > > out what's under there. But then, > > maybe you would need to know what was under there before you could > > make such a timeline. > >A timeline can definitely help. I've developed one for the French >hood, and from it I can formulate hypotheses about the layers. I >haven't done the same for the gable, however. Gable headdresses seem to have been made on a metal wire frame. The one I made for the Museum of London was based on a copy of the frame in the museum. There seems to be a French Hood frame there too, but it's like no French Hood shape I've ever seen. The gable has become very shabby, as it is in constant use be members of the public, who will insist on picking off the jewels. When I made it I had a copy of the Tudor Tailor, but I am afraid I disagreed with quite a lot of the instructions, and ended up doing (and re-doing, and re-doing) it until I was happy with the way it looked. If you want to see it, go here. http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/Vermeer1.jpg The Museum took a picture of one of their staff wearing it hence the title - although how they thought it was of Vermeer's period I don't know!! (Maybe it resembles the "Girl with the Pearl Earring" painting?) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 08:53:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDrrTH022126 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:53:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEDroKF025019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:53:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEDrX67051047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:53:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDrXAV076395; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:53:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEBAKPY025858 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:10:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.576.9a61ee2 (42807) for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:10:06 -0500 (EST) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <576.9a61ee2.328afe0e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:10:06 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5330 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559CA6E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:53:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 87c4b6a1-a8a7-4e17-98f7-d9c204853983 Status: RO In a message dated 11/13/2006 9:10:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, formfunc@formfunction.org writes: To split off from the actual topic, I recently had a tv show on in the background whilst working, and caught a few details about the dye used to produce the tekhelet blue as prescribed in the Torah & described in the Talmud. The animal used for it, the hillazon, is now a mystery, but the cuttlefish has become a popular suspect. They showed dye made from the cuttlefish and various other suspects, which was quite beautiful (lavender/sky blue). Thanks--that must be what I was thinking of. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 08:56:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDuEur022190 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:56:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEDuA0r027700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:56:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEDtA37051594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:55:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDt952078477; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:55:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33914.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33914.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEDt3wt078256 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:55:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 31322 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 13:54:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=zBG6gcPw2bIty+n6IEQYqlAUtVlbh0j4Oo1ejMOobx3oSgVZELxcIWCKv9cK7XRkhxDx9XumSA41MoAeZYcLYxhZf6XMxLzYURDrhkqiE4UWiskyohK4xzjh5FUa2LZc3zkN0crqxr5pbGWJNGLFE+O1l8ryGK4BwNlR3i9DyyM= ; Message-ID: <20061114135457.31320.qmail@web33914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33914.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:54:57 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:54:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559CAFA.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:56:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 42ecf213-8b8c-46d3-94aa-e0a29a0dd4ac Status: RO Thanks for trying. It is a crude site so when I am updating it is inaccessible. Please try again. Lady Von Susan Data-Samtak wrote: I thought it was just me. I have Internet Explorer and it doesn't work for me, either. Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Nov 13, 2006, at 6:42 PM, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > I have Internet Explorer, and it doesn't work for me either. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:10:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEAoPM022613 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:10:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEAir7023094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:10:49 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEE4iYO053900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:04:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEE4hVE088689; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:04:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEE4c2J088535 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:04:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m172.in-tch.com [216.166.191.172]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAEDqGG28942 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:52:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002101c707f6$fdb204c0$acbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00ce01c707c9$cb1720e0$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt inlateMiddleages??? Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:12:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559CE64.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:10:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: e06eaa6e-f4ec-477c-858d-88f9766473c7 Status: RO I didn't have a chance to look at it last night, Michaela, but it is very, very cool! ;o) I don't think I've seen a costume of yours yet that doesn't make my jaw just drop! I don't think you're afraid to try anything! I wouldn't worry about discussing the rest of it overly much--wouldn't be the first time we discussed a recent movie's costumes, but then, since I'm not a movie/theatre/costume fiend, that's the part of this list I find the most enlightening and fascinating. --Sue, in snowy/drippy Montana... ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:49 AM Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt inlateMiddleages??? > > > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/other/catwoman.htm > > > http://pulpspace.net.nz/joomla/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=30 > > > > Oh my goodness, this looks brilliant! And you wear it well. > > > Thank you:) And to keep it on h-cost topic... the corset is remarkably > simialr ot the 1900 corset in Corsets and Crinolines by Waugh. The changes > are: shortening the basque/hip panels, cutting it to underbust and (work CF > to CB) combining the first and second body panels and the third and fourth. > It's the most comfortable corset I have and I suspect it's due to the > underbust and the basques. My waist to hip is atm 71cm:98cm and I can get a > rather narrow waist so I think the shaping helps with that but without > compressing my ribs. > > Michaela de Bruce > http://glittersweet.com > (no idea how to work the rest of the costume into h-cost territory;) Unless > the 1990s are now retro enough...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:11:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEBnsa022625 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:11:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEBh22011789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:11:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEEBHwo054990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:11:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEBFme095291; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:11:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jaguar.campus.muc.prv (jaguar.muc.edu [199.18.39.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEBBEV095115 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:11:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from RICKARPA@muc.edu) Received: from lynx.campus.muc.prv ([172.16.100.248]) by jaguar.campus.muc.prv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:14:41 -0500 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Questionable color Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:14:11 -0500 Message-ID: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FE231@lynx.campus.muc.prv> In-Reply-To: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Questionable color Thread-Index: AccHnbZt7+LOl6SJTYGrL9bn/CcdfwAWUnKw From: "Rickard, Patty " To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2006 14:14:41.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A490910:01C707F7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAEEBBEV095115 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559CE9F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:11:48 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 31e964ff-9b99-48ed-88ea-b61665b5942d Status: RO Perhaps porpoise skin is like shark skin? Texture finish? Patty -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 10:28 PM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] Questionable color I am working on a 1916 designers' fashion catalog. I am not sure if something is a color or not. Please read the following ladies' dress description and let me know if you think porpoise is a color or what. The color "dove" is not capitalized when used as a color name. But the word "Porpoise" is. DESCRIPTION: "Dove" colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy blue. "Porpoise" skin silk. Vest and collar of white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons and buckle. Coat of navy blue "Porpoise" skin silk. Collar and cuffs of "dove" gabardine. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:21:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEELBWe022812 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:21:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEL5MV003138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:21:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEEDef7055440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:13:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEDdBj097729; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:13:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEDZ0d097679 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:13:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A2BA13D9E7 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:13:34 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hair Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:13:51 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20061114050619.6svhtw7si8g8oocc@www.formfunction.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559D0D1.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:21:11 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 13a98bab-7469-4a9a-95a7-dec748c5b3a9 Status: RO I learned a trick once with hairspray. After you have braided, take hairspray and spray your hand and then smooth it over the braids to hold the stragglers in place without coating the hair. I learned this trick along with using hairspray on water stains on a ceiling tile to seal it before you paint it and spray the edge of satin were you are going to sew a seam to light baste it and keep the satin from slipping. (haven't tried the last one) De -----Original Message----- I'd be dee-lighted to hear the solution to this problem, since I have it too. My hair is fine but plentiful, and nothing I've tried seems able to hold it in place for more than 10 minutes. Argh! In fact, back in the 80s, my hair wouldn't even hold a perm for more than a week or two. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:26:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEQ60H023021 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:26:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEQ2X4030100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:26:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEEM3vS056480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:22:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEM1FK005982; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:22:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEELv6l005755 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:21:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 35615 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 14:21:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=G6wArXT5qOgUydoPLfT4zPcwZYlIQwEijxuAkWlDYp+r0jSxKBdzqsLCFnUl5urNtQT8yDMQlcI1DIB69RqL9doCvR7jeUYULwLTjUburtVwHX1Wfur5he5P593vH9r8+yFWq4BsRr8IVdkQxZ7NcIq925OveA/rVAJwWet9lcs= ; Message-ID: <20061114142144.35613.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.117.13.102] by web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:21:43 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:21:43 -0800 (PST) From: Kahlara Subject: RE: [h-cost] WW1 Ladies fashions To: penny@costumegallery.com, h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559D1FA.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:26:06 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6b558e7a-a99c-4263-a461-d64fd492f255 Status: RO Hi Penny, My Grandparents were married in England in 1916. I have a newspaper clipping picture taken at the time scanned into my 'other' computer. I can't access it right now, but from what I recall my grandmother was not wearing a wedding dress, but rather what I would refer to as a 'day dress' or suit. It is above the ankles, but also does not look quite like what is shown in those illustrations. (it also could be that she is wearing a coat over the whole thing, as it was February.) I am not very familiar with the styles and terminology of that period, but the dress (coat?) its self reminds me more of the dropped waist style of the 20's but the skirt seems somewhat on the narrow side, whereas her hat is huge - almost "Gibson Girl" in style. If you are interested I can email you a copy of the clipping. Just let me know so I can have my husband to switch computers so I can access my files. Annette T --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:26:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEQ92S023028 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:26:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEQ59u026010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:26:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEENwKI056858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:23:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEENuPf008078; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:23:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEENr2n007939 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:23:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 53310 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 14:23:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hW/t60k9KoNg2ZBZGr1aBFIg4SpefOcZ1BaqrOEKfhbhE5EkbHdZlGuue2vQFBN8D0YQ/8bcRtNGja2ZeDwD7M55nqIZiB4Y6O4wkBwbzrQTUOENzrkP1J5mz77kVhpXSUEq+g7hjWXTlZjSAfX4EV9O/CqQEEraW1R+eqpXl0o= ; Message-ID: <20061114142347.53308.qmail@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:23:47 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:23:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200611132156.52310.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559D1FD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:26:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5b5ec705-f714-49b3-9175-bdcbe4e0a8a8 Status: RO I have had several responses saying site not accessible. When I update it takes the site down until I have finished. Unfortunately, I created the site using Microsoft Publisher and that is the only one I know how to use and it goes through Internet Explorer. Anyone interested in a specific item (like dress, umbrella, etc) just email me and I will send picture. I hope to have a more modern site come 1st of the year but right now I am busy sewing extra garments for upcoming Ren Faire in Mobile, Alabama so my site is suffering for more modern program. I sew to subsidize my SS retirement so it is very important to me to receive your comments to help me improve my site. It takes me a week sometimes to create one dress because of my arthritis. I love to sew is why I chose this method to subsidize my income. Any suggestions/comments are welcome. Thanks. Lady Von _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:37:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEb70L024481 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:37:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEb3lX008758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:37:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEEZI8H059424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:35:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEZE0H020437; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:35:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEZ92Y020364 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:35:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m172.in-tch.com [216.166.191.172]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAEEMqG07227 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:22:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002c01c707fb$43e7d100$acbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:43:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559D48F.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:37:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9491b975-7816-44e7-875a-f6f4283e2e1d Status: RO Maybe something of the same chemical reaction as when dyeing with woad or indigo? My book on "Red Dyes: Cochineal, Madder and Murex Purple," notes a number of things regarding the use of mollusk secretions as a dye stuff. There are, for instance, several types of mollusks used for this, and they occur in different parts of the world AND produce different shades. There's a bluish one called "purpura hyacintha and a more reddish one called purpura blatta or Tyrian purple." According to the book, we don't have a lot of details about the actual process used in making ancient colors like Tyrian purple, although it sounds like it started with the extraction of the snail, removal of the gland in question, and then, any one of a number of possibilities. Too much history and war and destruction of dye works in the last 3000 years, I guess! ;o( Further on in the same section, the author discusses purple dyes that occur in the western hemisphere, and in that area, I found something that sounds much like what you're talking about. In 1909, an anthropologist wrote about mollusk dyeing along the Pacific Coast of Mexico, and mentions: "' When the cotton thread is moistened with the color secretion it first turns green. Then, when it is dried by the rays of the sun, the green turns purple and becomes permanent.'" Interestingly, the section closes with a brief discussion on just what we mean when we say "purple," since it's really not one single color, but rather an entire ranges of shades. Some of them are virtually blue, others, much more distinctly red. A number of very old texts (such as the Old Testament) make clear distinctions between red-purple and blue-purple. There's even some 2nd century apocrypha describing Mary (mother of Jesus) being specifically honored in being chosen to spin the purple-red and scarlet-red fibers (I assume wool or silk)--I'm assuming as a young woman, because when she returns the finished yarns/threads to the priest, there's a bit of foreshadowing when the priest tells her that she "will be blessed among all the people of the world." (The same bit of apocrypha mentions "the gold, the white, the flax, the silk, the dark blue, the scarlet red, and the purple red", so something pretty expensive was going on....;o) --Sue in Montana p.s. Oh, yeah, the book I mentioned is "The Red Dyes: Cochineal, Madder, and Murex Purple," and it's written by Gosta Sandberg. Out of print, I believe, but a fascinating read..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Grant" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:59 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blue on Judith > Funny how this comes up today! > > Last night on 'Naked Archeaologist' the show was about the colour blue in > ancient times. How it was produced from the snail. The trick to getting > blue from the snail was to expose the dye to sunlight. The ultra violet > light produces a very vivid blue, if not exposed the dye will come out > purple. > > I thought it was fasinating. > > There is also quite a controversy in some sects of the Jewish faith over the > use of snails or cuttlefish to produce the dye. The archeaological evidence > suggests snails though, due to the amount of snail shells at dye sites. > > How they suggest the dye is made > > rotten dried up snail > caustic soda > boiling water > sunlight > > I am not a dyer, so I don't say this would work, I also don't know the > quantities of each. It was interesting to see them dye the fibre > though...when it first came out of the dye pot it was yellow, then once rung > out of liquid and probably exposed to the air turned blue before their eyes! > > Discussion????? > > > Kelly > > > > An insolent reply from a polite person is a bad sign. > > > Hippocrates (c.460-c.370 bc), Greek physician > > > > > > >From: Kathy Page > > > >On another list I am on, a topic coming up regarding the relevance the > >colour blue is to Jewish women came up, relative to the Book of Judith and > >all the spin off paintings it has created particularly in Italian ren > >paintings. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more.then map the best > route! Check out Live Local today! http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:42:56 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEguiA025100 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:42:56 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEggOd014502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:42:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEEesE4060340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:40:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEeoR7026363; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:40:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jaguar.campus.muc.prv (webmail.muc.edu [199.18.39.150]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEej2H026177 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:40:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from RICKARPA@muc.edu) Received: from lynx.campus.muc.prv ([172.16.100.248]) by jaguar.campus.muc.prv with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:44:16 -0500 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blue on Judith Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:44:15 -0500 Message-ID: <18037059078CE14C97E74A4F59DD7B1B015FE274@lynx.campus.muc.prv> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Blue on Judith Thread-Index: AccH5QGoYQ3t3oMmSvGT5w9d1Cea5wAFJmYw From: "Rickard, Patty " To: "Historical Costume" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2006 14:44:16.0000 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BB32000:01C707FB] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAEEej2H026177 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559D5E2.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:42:56 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f894d189-ba2f-49db-9845-287d9304afc7 Status: RO Dyes from indigo are similar - indican (indoxyl + glucose), which is colorless, goes into solution (traditionally by using stale urine for the ammonia to make the solution basic), the glucose is bacterially digested, the soluble colorless chemical travels to the fiber, the indoxyls combine with oxygen while in the fiber to give indigotin & things turn blue! -absolutely magic! J. N. Lyles (The Art & Craft of Natural Dyeing) says that the snails seem to produce varying concentrations of indigotin & dibromoindigo(more reddish purple). The snail would have the pigments, which are not soluble in water - the caustic soda & boiling water would make alkaline conditions to release them to go into the fiber, the air would provide the oxygen to bring out the color & set it in the fiber. More magic! Patty -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Grant Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:59 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blue on Judith Funny how this comes up today! Last night on 'Naked Archeaologist' the show was about the colour blue in ancient times. How it was produced from the snail. The trick to getting blue from the snail was to expose the dye to sunlight. The ultra violet light produces a very vivid blue, if not exposed the dye will come out purple. I thought it was fasinating. There is also quite a controversy in some sects of the Jewish faith over the use of snails or cuttlefish to produce the dye. The archeaological evidence suggests snails though, due to the amount of snail shells at dye sites. How they suggest the dye is made rotten dried up snail caustic soda boiling water sunlight I am not a dyer, so I don't say this would work, I also don't know the quantities of each. It was interesting to see them dye the fibre though...when it first came out of the dye pot it was yellow, then once rung out of liquid and probably exposed to the air turned blue before their eyes! Discussion????? Kelly An insolent reply from a polite person is a bad sign. Hippocrates (c.460-c.370 bc), Greek physician >From: Kathy Page > >On another list I am on, a topic coming up regarding the relevance the >colour blue is to Jewish women came up, relative to the Book of Judith and >all the spin off paintings it has created particularly in Italian ren >paintings. > _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more...then map the best route! Check out Live Local today! http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:51:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEp1Lw025620 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:51:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEoFId019394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:51:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEElgJf061603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:47:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEElecI033537; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:47:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEElVsW033375 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:47:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m172.in-tch.com [216.166.191.172]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAEEZFG10603 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:35:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <005201c707fc$fe42eb60$acbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hair Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:55:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4559D7A7.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:51:01 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: df4edb0e-4930-4508-8e11-1123076bade1 Status: RO It also works to kill wasps and yellow jackets. Completely OT, I know, but I just *had* to share! I really hate those buggers..... I have very slippery, fine hair as well, and decently long (mostly about bra-strap length...it just won't grow much further), but not in any great quantity, alas. I've noticed that I have a LOT more success keeping the stuff braided and quiescent, and the wispy bits controlled, if it's, well, not exactly freshly washed. I suspect that the residual oils remaining even if I rinse, but don't use shampoo, serve much the same function (in this case) as would a styling product. Adds a bit of texture/volume, etc. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:13 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hair > I learned a trick once with hairspray. After you have braided, take > hairspray and spray your hand and then smooth it over the braids to hold the > stragglers in place without coating the hair. I learned this trick along > with using hairspray on water stains on a ceiling tile to seal it before you > paint it and spray the edge of satin were you are going to sew a seam to > light baste it and keep the satin from slipping. (haven't tried the last > one) > De > > -----Original Message----- > I'd be dee-lighted to hear the solution to this problem, since I have > it too. My hair is fine but plentiful, and nothing I've tried seems > able to hold it in place for more than 10 minutes. Argh! In fact, > back in the 80s, my hair wouldn't even hold a perm for more than a > week or two. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 09:59:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEExEMQ025873 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:59:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEEx5eC031988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:59:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEEqcLP062458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEqYtI038746; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:52:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEEqSpE038512 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:52:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCXVX9XAQC62YS for (sender ); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:51:33 -0800 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgj87T1kQ+Cw393JqDF+OUPc= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id L6559QN4; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:51:06 PST To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:49:13 -0800 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review Message-ID: <20061114.065052.3144.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:1:735552355 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559D9B9.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:59:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 87c4e683-e525-43d5-a9d3-921f49150ece Status: RO One thing that may help is to have your hair in a not perfectly clean state. Oiler hair holds together better. Arlys, who has the same problem you do _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 10:05:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEF5WJk026075 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:05:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEF5S0T022620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:05:32 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEF3NFN064693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:03:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEF3Joo050702; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:03:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from webmail02.unl.edu (webmail02.unl.edu [129.93.1.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEF3A6T050540 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:03:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from 00217146@bigred.unl.edu) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by webmail02.unl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id kAEF39M01042 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:03:09 -0600 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color Message-ID: <1163516589.4559daad2f674@webmail02.unl.edu> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:03:09 -0600 (CST) From: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu References: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20061113205050.02639678@surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061113205050.02639678@surewest.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4559DB38.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:05:32 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b4fe1308-ac69-4996-b87e-2acd18774475 Status: RO Quoting Joan Jurancich : > > Since the second reference to "Porpoise" skin is for the navy blue > coat, my guess is that the "Porpoise" skin refers to the texture of > the silk, not the color. I agree, and would add that the quotation marks might imply that the silk is imitation porpoise skin. I'm thinking of the sandblasted sueded silks available now. (Sueded--another leather reference) Emma _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 10:15:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEFFTsm026406 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:15:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEFEme7015613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:15:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEFC1uk066142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:12:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEFBwEO060270; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:11:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33914.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33914.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEFBqus060020 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:11:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58676 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 15:11:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=xVWNdBETcZigZAr0Z6xg8DLesUBn7b+Dm1eRgHhG1oahA2fskVMyvnD8j9DlE7wzDH2bkxhDlVsuLxol2B7DyXE6o0rAi4V058GuNONiPc8AXtt+XKgSdKM28LwhLMToIQXOatWeMEqhmXxpi8O4kQc/pTR69ScksxIL7fJT/yA= ; Message-ID: <20061114151147.58674.qmail@web33914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33914.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:11:47 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:11:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <008f01c707a2$8f36d420$0301010a@michaela> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559DD68.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:15:29 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 40db6504-c4a9-4956-bf6f-cccefae7fc8b Status: RO Glad to hear someone else that suffers with RA and sews understands the flare ups and recovery periods. Lady Von michaela wrote: I have RA too and this weekend overdid the sewing a bit too much to help out a dance school. I took about 8 200mg Ibuprofen a day as well as up to 4mg prednisone (usually only on one) on top of my regular medication (including 1000mg of Naprosen)* and am still in terrific pain. The sewing trggered a massive inflamatory response (from toes to jaw with extra pain in those areas overused.) Anyway, just saying it's not just an added burden for time but for time taken to recover. That said I learnt I have indeed sped up and could be fast enough for industry standards, but couldn't keep that speed up for more than a day even with all the above precautions. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 10:25:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEFPFsn026944 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:25:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEFPBwd026806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:25:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEFLuvc067659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:21:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEFLppK071665; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:21:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (root@marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.233]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEFLcLQ071432 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:21:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sonja@louisiana.edu) Received: from pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu (root@pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.229]) by marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/ull-ucs-mx-host_1.9a) with ESMTP id kAEFLXZ6020875 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:21:38 -0600 (CST) Received: from louisiana.edu (skr5996@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/ull-ucs-client_1.7) with ESMTP id kAEFLXiN003490 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:21:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Sonja" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:21:33 -0600 Message-Id: <20061114151943.M66432@louisiana.edu> X-Mailer: OpenWebMail 2.52 20060831 X-OriginatingIP: 130.70.141.184 (skr5996) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.5/2192/Tue Nov 14 02:00:57 2006 on marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Jewish Blue Dye X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559DFD7.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:25:15 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 83d6d840-08b7-4df9-b73c-ebc6124fea0d Status: RO Jewish blue dye from mollusk.  VERY Sorry if a false posting was sent.  I'm at work with different email and hit the wrong button.  This should make up for it:  God spoke to Moses and told him that the Children of Israel will wear fringes of blue to remind them of the 10 Commandments.  The technique and art was just about gone thanks to the Romans.  Found this great discussion for you.  http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v8/mj_v8i12.html  Funny how we can rewrite, ruin, or erase history.  Also, there was talk about shows featuring dyes from snails.  I saw a show (on History Channel I believe) that explored the worst jobs for a certain year or era.  Yep, smashing and cooking snails for dyes was one of them.  Pretty horrible. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 10:40:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEFe7sD027618 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:40:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEFe19g009878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:40:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEFbrr0070104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:38:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEFX2Ou084548; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.181]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEFVYWW082536 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:32:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 16235 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 15:31:12 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4jMKaVBmvuFuUW9qcKLLzQnGmuRC7OQvsLLAN3cl3CI1O//8qUbgRA6G58904Q0iETE4qQ9hwlI/V1OOkWWr0SqX1BAMr2Ld7sn0rT+TmNfRgJZPEuSYJ740WybgRyVvVUF5KjH8uZfhntRAPDWQ1+z+uE1x82RAyBVDsIEbs0c= ; Message-ID: <20061114153112.16233.qmail@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:31:12 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:31:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middleages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559E351.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:40:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3240d1fa-0991-40af-81d7-af4fa941f531 Status: RO Wow! Great job and you wear it well! Lady Von Robin Netherton wrote: On Tue, 14 Nov 2006, michaela wrote: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/other/catwoman.htm > http://pulpspace.net.nz/joomla/index.php?option=com_expose&Itemid=30 Oh my goodness, this looks brilliant! And you wear it well. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 12:25:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEHOuXT031516 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:25:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEHOqTK017661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:24:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEDoOLf050326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:50:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEDoM6D072688; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:50:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52101.mail.yahoo.com (web52101.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEDoJqX072542 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:50:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 54564 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 13:50:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=3KnoDtry4gruQTV559j9JbNHo/oLlgc27ZE/uxZTbCJXDfz+jJ9pQjj/L9ag35+Kors1cHiiC6nI3JgGjjd3hCbSk8Ec7vIOVTrGoI3919Gw0hs3fQ8yuGkxsFHAx5qLOiNMbnQJHdpds3OqnTd/w7MoeGKHKek1VKHhCrNEzN4= ; Message-ID: <20061114135013.54562.qmail@web52101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [72.57.170.28] by web52101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:50:13 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:50:13 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Page Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4559FBE4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:24:56 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 06bedb8c-12e5-47ef-b46b-695dc74d1457 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kAEHOuXT031516 Status: RO What started this train of thought for me was this: http://www.tekhelet.com/brochure.htm . I didn't realise the importance of blue to the Hebrews or if there was any significance to women. I did a search on biblical Judith and found a quote from the Book of Judith that said she cast off her blue widow's veil and left the city, her beauty was a surprise to the elders.... Judith is considered a heroine but the whole story is by most thought to be fictional by many. Judith is important in that she represents the people overcoming their invaders. When I did a cursory search for Judith paintings, there was an overwhelming number of them that in some way, she was wearing a distinct blue or shades of it, even if just a fold or stripe in a layer. Italians subscribed to the yellow-is-Jewish thing as well, she wore nothing on her head - likely relevant to the story of her casting off her veil. She doesn't for the most part look any different than any other Italian woman, it seemed the bulk of the non-Italian, 16th c. paintings didn't use this blue indicator however - Cranach being the most noticable in this group. I really don't know how to interpret this one. It would be a fascinating research... just one I don't have the time to sink my teeth into at the moment. Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert (Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 > Wow! This stirred up a really vague memory of an article I read, > probably 15 years ago about a special blue dye--if memory serves, it > came from the Mediterranean, and was, similar to Tyrian purple, a > shell-fish based vat dye. And it was used by the Hebrews and, again > if I'm remembering right, had a ritual significance. If it's shellfish-based, it would be unlikely to be used by the Hebrews, at least not post-Sinai, as it would be considered unclean per the kosher law in Leviticus. So, depending on where and when the art was produced, you might see pointed hats, or yellow badges, or stripes, or other devices to designate Jewish characters -- In medieval Christian art, ultramarine blue has long been associated with the Virgin -- usually in her mantle or robe -- because it was the most expensive available pigment. but I don't know if that was a "Jewish" thing in particular or just an "important person" designator. You are probably thinking about the single thread of blue included in I'm not aware of any special significance of blue in regards to women. It's probably something from the Christian symbolism _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 13:06:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEI6TGm032447 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:06:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEI6NA1018713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:06:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEEAiGA054862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:10:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEEAgI8094682; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:10:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33915.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33915.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEEAY7g094434 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:10:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 46576 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 14:10:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GhRxeJOzOgJCzUxYCDFaht2CN6mK8KmsJgnznph1lD2kkOwU1/Ona+7daB8k6JCzrKcMF4F9c9qhQWpEjWA8soCqv6pwdQFHFwcc6/ZNEy7/mQlFt8uLaHztS/h5a/Vse1MJAY+YEd3h5PYScS41E0sGlLwZsUNoSdpbcPlEBOk= ; Message-ID: <20061114141029.46574.qmail@web33915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33915.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:10:29 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:10:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: wildthangs etc. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455A059F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:06:29 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 66ca4848-df86-4e69-b557-86b8ed865e65 Status: RO Thanks for looking. Sorry you are having problem. The navigation bar with the links should show up on the left. Just choose the category and click. I just tried and no problem. Lady Von Susan Data-Samtak wrote: This is all I get. No links, nothing else. I can't see anything! Help! < Check back often to see NEW items added. Give us a call or send email and we will be happy to answer your questions. Our goal is to offer unique items at a reasonable price while giving personal service to those who contact us.>> Susan "Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for". - "Ride the Dark Trail" by Louis L'Amour On Nov 13, 2006, at 8:14 PM, Voncile W. Dudley wrote: > Sorry. I may have been updating at the time. Please try again. > Lady Von > > Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > > I have Internet Explorer, and it doesn't work for me either. > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > --------------------------------- > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > _______________________________________________ >_____________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 13:43:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEIhj2c000956 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:43:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEIhd3e015615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:43:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEF4xI2064970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:04:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEF4v80052456; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:04:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.69.185]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAEF4r32052291 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 61312 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 15:04:48 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=vpy3zqIne9cRd28OON88mmun1BdP+4W+i4Tr3Bm7NFaqpyecfsZ4szKlwosBWdWtKEnWlCR+MZ+FL3jGo9Mq8Dq1aqEzWRWCiu1czeWQycn+W9QIlcBBNzz14FPVXcMDhrnkPlE00HsXt0jc+PvLqN6vB1K+oYTgu/8HAl1Ndeg= ; Message-ID: <20061114150448.61310.qmail@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.187.40.219] by web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:04:48 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:04:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Voncile W. Dudley" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00b101c70799$d9c05600$69bfa6d8@pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455A0E5C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:43:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9d2ea188-c214-4065-8218-4a2109ad8b9e Status: RO Hey, we all have our individual way of sewing. When I think of a garment sewing time I think about everything involved from the laying out of the pattern to the last detail. I thought the garment in question was gorgeous not thinking about the authenticity or anything else, just first impression. I use a regular ol sewing machine and such and I don't sew on a large scale. Those who do are to be complimented for their ability to do such and create beautiful authentic or just Ren garb. Smile...you will feel better! Lady Von Sue Clemenger wrote: Absolutely! I may have been making incorrect assumptions about the construction of this dress, but the website wasn't exactly forthcoming with details! ;o) I've not really ever bought historically-themed clothing or costumes, as I usually make my own, but I have definitely purchased my share of off-the-rack clothing over the years, and have looked at some items that friends have purchased. There's an awfully wide range of construction options out there, and certainly, an item that was more carefully constructed would be worthy of a higher asking price. I just don't assume the reverse, especially given that the website didn't provide many details, which I've seen a number of others do, especially when they're aiming at a reenactor's market, in which authentic construction is a definite selling point for some folks. --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Rognstad" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > I sew for a living (among other things) and I don't like to rush myself > too much. I certainly don't sew fast by commercial industrial > standards. That would be too stressful and not at all enjoyable. I > was thinking of the dress being lined, faced, etc, when I said it would > probably take me a couple days. And I don't sew and serge at the same > time. I prefer to sew my seams and then serge them, in case I have to > take something out. I realize sewing and serging in one step cuts out > a lot of extra time. > > SYlrog > > On Nov 13, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > I wasn't including cutting time in that estimate--I was thinking in > > more > > industrial/mass quantity terms. If you're doing a whole bunch of that > > sort > > of thing all at once, you can get really fast at it, and the type of > > machine > > you have can greatly assist in that. The website didn't say anything, > > that > > I recall, about types of seams used, or finishings on the insides, > > outside > > of the mention of the dress being half-lined. So I more or less > > assumed > > that it was serged or something similar. More labor-intensive, > > detail-oriented choices would of course take more time! And I certainly > > wouldn't want anyone doing this sort of work to under-pay themselves! > > It's > > just that I've only ever done sewing as either a strictly recreational > > thing, or in an industrial setting, so my costuming experiences may > > likely > > differ from other people, who are doing it on a more of a "cottage > > industry" > > scale. > > --Sue > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:25 AM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > > > > > >> You must sew awfully fast. I've been sewing most all my life and I > >> can > >> see that taking me a couple days, including cutting of course, so that > >> would bring my price, just for labor, up to $400. I don' think the > >> asking price is unreasonable. My garments are quite well made, > >> though, > >> and fully lined if necessary. > >> > >> Sylrog > >> > >> On Nov 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: > >> > >>> With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a > >>> complete > >>> tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal > >>> with maps > >>> and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my > >>> sewing for > >>> fun. > >>> --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Sylvia Rognstad" > >>> To: "Historical Costume" > >>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? > >>> > >>> > >>>> Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a > >>>> gown? > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : > >>>>> > >>>>>> I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at > >>>>>> those > >>>>>> prices. > >>>>> > >>>>> Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! > >>>>> > >>>>> susan > >>>>> ----- > >>>>> Susan Farmer > >>>>> sfarmer@goldsword.com > >>>>> University of Tennessee > >>>>> Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > >>>>> http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> h-costume mailing list > >>>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> h-costume mailing list > >>> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >>> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 13:43:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEIhjPe000955 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:43:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEIhdDm023705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:43:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEIe2al001171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:40:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEIcplj004512; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:38:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEIcXwS004101 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:38:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27391 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:23:15 -0600 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:23:15 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith In-Reply-To: <576.9a61ee2.328afe0e@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455A0E5C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:43:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c708796d-1a19-49ec-bcf7-f023b467bee6 Status: RO Here's another useful page on tekhelet: http://www.jewishweaving.com/blog/ Suddenly relevant to me as I was thinking of attending a tallit-making class soon; my oldest son received his grandfather's tallit at his bar mitzvah, but my youngest will need one in a couple of years, and it might take me that long to make one if I choose to do that ... in part because I would want to study the traditions involved, including the blue in the tefillin strings. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 16:27:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAELRmVc006091 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:27:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAELRiVp032673 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:27:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAELOhPl029608 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:24:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAELOUUh000730; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:24:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net (rwcrmhc15.comcast.net [204.127.192.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAELOLGU000417 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:24:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20061114212408m1500apcc6e>; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:24:08 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <20061113215937.7233.qmail@web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061113215937.7233.qmail@web37510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <49601680-37FB-4642-931F-5642BAE251A2@comcast.net> From: Lauren Walker Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:24:03 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455A34D0.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:27:48 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ed6f3903-1f5b-4ade-9a6c-21f21ca864a9 Status: RO I guess it's all a matter of whose ox (or gown) gets gored... (Sorry; the pun fairy made me do it...) On Nov 13, 2006, at 4:59 PM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: > Now I feel really bad about posting this "gores question". The > picture just kind of caught my eye, as I'd heard some people > telling me that contrasting gores were accurate in the middle ages > - a fact that I wasn't very sure of. So I just wanted to ask. It > wasn't meant to doubt the lady's work at all. > Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 16:40:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAELevaJ006636 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:40:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAELerLj023905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:40:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAELdArZ031802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:39:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAELd6i7017643; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:39:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.251]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAELd14i017455 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:39:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 17525 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 21:38:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=haIomv7x0nAtyQ+sqqeBRr8yBg28+0t10rQmwjDEkgYO0HN+PN4PDEeG6KLONVEizWMXez4aOaQM24BFwQV/+Z6fAHHqq972XzEvwSJ9oY2aStjoE7m/L7VU+u/0ZGpK1O8TiLCg/SpqosLfORBytWJKmlJzBqI6ZQh5e61EhuU= ; Message-ID: <20061114213856.17523.qmail@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [148.107.3.20] by web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:38:56 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:38:56 -0800 (PST) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20061114050619.6svhtw7si8g8oocc@www.formfunction.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455A37E5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:40:56 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 52a6ad53-a1cc-47df-b560-ec3afe1513c3 Status: RO It also helps not to wash your hair the same day you want to do this. Perfectly clean hair tends to slip out of tight arrangements. MaggiRos --- formfunc@formfunction.org wrote: > I'd be dee-lighted to hear the solution to this > problem, since I have > it too. My hair is fine but plentiful, and nothing > I've tried seems > able to hold it in place for more than 10 minutes. > Argh! In fact, > back in the 80s, my hair wouldn't even hold a perm > for more than a > week or two. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 16:44:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAELidpT006732 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:44:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAELiaHf012826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:44:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAELXvj2031030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:33:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAELXppe011417; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:33:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAELXiMR011183 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:33:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 30787 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 21:33:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=MH5M+x7qyCyJfIupYFCOV42KOcCVm3HNYkentn18rv0EDhdpK+E4KfmsempEVs5DAoqiOBWdeMohNHEJFeAgBv0BbzWVqGPCclvJ3iEHXYgcHZDqvoi1y6oHS1RDbRtihGwrW5qPEUTEBY5N4pSOamDWYIWJEybNU806NgaIMpY= ; Message-ID: <20061114213339.30785.qmail@web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [148.107.3.20] by web32712.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:33:39 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:33:39 -0800 (PST) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455A38C4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:44:39 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: edb10dfe-76e0-480e-bd99-62a47b864067 Status: RO I think the original needed a proofreader. There seems to be an extaneous period after the first "navy blue, and the quotation marks seem to belong around "porpoise skin", since in the next sentence that's how we see those words grouped., You've got something here called porpoise skin silk that is navy blue in the trimmings and in the coat. MaggiRos --- Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am working on a 1916 designers' fashion catalog. > I am not sure if something is a color or not. > Please read the following ladies' dress description > and let me know if you think porpoise is a color or > what. The color "dove" is not capitalized when used > as a color name. But the word "Porpoise" is. > > DESCRIPTION: > "Dove" colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy > blue. "Porpoise" skin silk. Vest and collar of > white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons and buckle. > Coat of navy blue "Porpoise" skin silk. Collar and > cuffs of "dove" gabardine. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 17:05:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEM5d5E007289 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:05:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEM5ZGA001388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:05:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEM4FEk037284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:04:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEM4AT2047439; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:04:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEM4411047226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:04:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from cpanel by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Gk6Ny-0002xi-Qn for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:04:06 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) by www.formfunction.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:04:06 -0600 Message-ID: <20061114160406.ebbix1dbcj5wkgkk@www.formfunction.org> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:04:06 -0600 From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood & cute portrait repros References: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> <8C8D58136B65A13-B34-4D9@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061114134006.033793e8@suziclarke.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061114134006.033793e8@suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAEM4411047226 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455A3DAF.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:05:39 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5dc1d0a7-71ef-495e-924e-c482ba8cfc8d Status: RO Quoting Suzi Clarke : > museum. There seems to be a French Hood frame there too, but it's like > no French Hood shape I've ever seen. I think I might know the French Hood frame you're talking about; it puzzles me, too. It's hard to tell from the photo I have, but I wonder if it could possibly be the frame for this type of Anglicized half French hood, half gable hood: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/cecilia.jpg My only problem with this theory is that the frame I saw curls all the way around before going back to the front (argh, hard to describe) leaving a little circle inside an obtuse angle, which would mess with the angular corner seen in the portraits. If the circle were on the outside of the corner rather than the inside, it'd make perfect sense for this, and give a much sharper and stronger corner than if it were simply bent into an angle. Or perhaps it would work as the back curve on this: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14264/14264-h/images/30ppi/plate53.jpg Of course, I've only seen this in 2-d photo form, so I can't tell exactly how the whole thing is shaped. By the way, I just ran across a cute and rather impressive display: http://www.artnet.de/galleries/Inventory.asp?gid=1158&cid=101304 I could easily quibble with some of the details of the garments, but overall it's got a great wow effect. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 17:11:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEMB5AR007435 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:11:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEMAxTE005535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:11:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEMAPpA038280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:10:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEMAIOp054120; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:10:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1c.socket.net [216.106.88.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEMA671053907 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:10:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5EEC438C76 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:08:59 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirts Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:09:16 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <49601680-37FB-4642-931F-5642BAE251A2@comcast.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455A3EF3.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:11:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1889543f-f7f7-4992-bece-b38e3fb91faa Status: RO bad...naughty...have some chocolate. :) -----Original Message----- I guess it's all a matter of whose ox (or gown) gets gored... (Sorry; the pun fairy made me do it...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 17:11:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEMBkW0007447 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:11:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAEMBg31031231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:11:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAEMBFLP038395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:11:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEMB1HH054961; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:11:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEMAkVK054489 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:10:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.64]) by ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061114221038.WVDE23383.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net> for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:10:38 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.64]) by ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061114221036.XSAI21592.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:10:36 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061114154824.02691ea0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:10:33 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAEMAkVK054489 Subject: [h-cost] conference X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455A3F1E.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:11:46 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6a01a649-e1b6-4ab5-a128-d2f02e17a7dd Status: RO The following conference is going on this week. I do hope that the proceedings will be published! Beth Matney Fashion and Clothing in Late Medieval Europe 16th – 18th November 2006, in Riggisberg (Switzerland) Conference organized in cooperation with the Department of Medieval History at the Historical Institute of the University of Berne Program: http://www.mittelalter.hist.unibe.ch The conference is open to all scholars, the number of participants is restricted. ----------------------------------------------- Sektion I – Einzelne Gewandelemente / Part I – Individual Pieces of Clothing: ------------------------------------------------- JUNE SWANN (NORTHAMPTON) European Shoes 1200-1520 RAINER C. SCHWINGES (BERN) Between Gown and Fashion: a Student's Clothes in the Late 15th Century JUTTA ZANDER-SEIDEL (NÜRNBERG) "Haubendämmerung". Frauenkopfbedeckungen zwischen Spätmittelalter und Früher Neuzeit KATHARINA SIMON-MUSCHEID (BERN) Les couvre-chefs au bas moyen-âge: marqueurs culturels et signes politiques NAOMI TARRANT (EDINBURGH) "Cut your coat to suit your cloth" – How a Textile Affects the Cut of a Garment KNUT SCHULZ (BERLIN) Produktion und Vertrieb von Textilien. Voraussetzungen, Impulse und Innovationen -------------------------- Sektion II – Soziale Schichtung und ständische Differenzierung / Part II – Clothing and Fashion from Different Social Levels --------------------------- AMALIA DESCALZO LORENZO (MADRID) Les vêtements royaux du monastère Santa Maria la Real de Huelgas MARGARETA NOCKERT (UPPSALA) Clothing Found in Scandinavia and Greenland JUTTA CHARLOTTE VON BLOH (DRESDEN) Princely Canons of Clothing and Dynastic Historiography – the Garments of Elector Moritz of Saxony (1521-1553) STEPHAN SELZER (HALLE A.D. SAALE) Adel auf dem Laufsteg. Das Hofgewand an reichsfürstlichen Höfen um 1500 FRANCES PRITCHARD (MANCHESTER) Clothing Worn in 14th Century London Based on Archaeological Evidence NEITHARD BULST (BIELEFELD) Signe de distinction. Le vêtement bourgeois en Allemagne et en France dans la législation somptuaire. -------------------------------- Sektion III – Symbolische Aspekte von Kleidung und Mode / Part III – Symbolic Aspects of Clothing and Fashion ------------------------------------ EVA SCHLOTHEUBER (MÜNCHEN) Best Clothes and Every-day Attire of Late Medieval Nuns MARIA HAYWARD (WINCHESTER) The Influence of the Liturgical Year on the Wardrobe of Henry VIII JOHANNES PIETSCH (RIGGISBERG) Showing the Body – Shaping the Body. The Interaction of Clothing and the Human Figure KLAUS OSCHEMA (BERN) Amis, favoris, sosies. Le vêtement comme miroir des relations personnelles ROBERTA ORSI-LANDINI (FIRENZE) The Influence of the Medici on International Developments of Fashion GIL BARTHOLEYNS (BRUXELLES) La mode et les Réformes. Discussion sur les causes de la transformation du vêtement en Europe (XIIIe–XVIe siècle) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 20:25:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1P7bE012767 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:25:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF1P3RT002486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:25:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF1MhTj069551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:22:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1MZ1i075769; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:22:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1MUjO075559 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:22:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45757a12.dyn.optonline.net [69.117.122.18]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with SMTP id <0J8Q00J2HZSZI4I0@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:22:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:22:08 -0500 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Jewish Blue Dye In-reply-to: <20061114151943.M66432@louisiana.edu> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455A6C6F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:25:07 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ed605f59-1757-480b-b36b-ded5bc1f2eca Status: RO Not to mention how the snails felt. :-) Monica -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sonja Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 10:22 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Jewish Blue Dye Jewish blue dye from mollusk.  VERY Sorry if a false posting was sent.  I'm at work with different email and hit the wrong button.  This should make up for it:  God spoke to Moses and told him that the Children of Israel will wear fringes of blue to remind them of the 10 Commandments.  The technique and art was just about gone thanks to the Romans.  Found this great discussion for you.  http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v8/mj_v8i12.html  Funny how we can rewrite, ruin, or erase history.  Also, there was talk about shows featuring dyes from snails.  I saw a show (on History Channel I believe) that explored the worst jobs for a certain year or era.  Yep, smashing and cooking snails for dyes was one of them.  Pretty horrible. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 20:32:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1WjGC012995 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:32:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF1Wd7C008633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:32:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF1UFiB070881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:30:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1UDHm082844; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:30:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEIIedc080382 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:18:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27257AE317 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:18:35 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <455A08AE.30601@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:19:26 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color References: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> In-Reply-To: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455A6E37.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:32:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: cf4d24d1-9288-41b9-a000-8df2ae3ac3b8 Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am working on a 1916 designers' fashion catalog. I am not sure if something is a color or not. Please read the following ladies' dress description and let me know if you think porpoise is a color or what. The color "dove" is not capitalized when used as a color name. But the word "Porpoise" is. > > DESCRIPTION: > "Dove" colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy blue. "Porpoise" skin silk. Vest and collar of white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons and buckle. Coat of navy blue "Porpoise" skin silk. Collar and cuffs of "dove" gabardine. > My first thought was that it sounded like a type or texture of silk... but my gut tells me it's some kind of waterproofed outer wear fabric that's being used for this coat. Like Goretex. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 20:33:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1XPc3013014 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:33:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF1XL3G008269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:33:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF1VGpk071116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:31:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1VFNT083939; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:31:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEIkaa1014350 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:46:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0677CAE310 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:46:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <455A0F27.2030101@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:47:03 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair References: <943442.69427.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <943442.69427.qm@web32209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455A6E61.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:33:25 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 9cfb7f21-62ad-49ae-b4fe-d19c85bd5109 Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > Maybe it is because I am doing my own hair, it is very thick, and I really don't do much practice in hair braiding in general. I am not sure what else to try, so I gladly will accept suggestions. > My hair is like that too. Gels and hairspray simply do not work to control it. It's long, and straight, very fine individually, slippery, and there's so much of it that conventional clips and barettes can't hold it. I have discovered that when trying to do 'period' hair I need to make several smaller braids. Four, actually. There's one parted from just behind the ear with the hair on the sides of the face, which can go over the top of the head, or around the back. There's two in the back which can be twisted into a bun, or can cross and go around the back of the head behind the ear. If you cross the two tails in back and pin them under each other, then you can pin the front braids in a loop over your ear for a very nice medieval style. I always start with a full card of hair pins and extra elastics, and I expect to have to re-do it in about 4 hours time. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 20:35:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1ZdtW013086 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:35:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF1ZXRU030950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:35:38 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF1Xhhi071582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:33:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF1Xdif086334; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:33:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAEMx7lB014443 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:59:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from garbaholic@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m22so1191558nzf for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:59:06 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=g0L5G+Fs1s6zXq58wn+kkCoyf7yCROzfF0yk+HtEgz3rN1DWPgSmviddvpn4m9imK0NNmma9S7Dz8owCjS2jX/Mw5qR9fpu/9FBu4wa3JAkNnRiUMzIyTee2CQxekiDVcVp6fsSJQt9k/maYrJr8ck3rredOlJOx4s5jYGae5Z4= Received: by 10.35.79.3 with SMTP id g3mr2137971pyl.1163545146723; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.9.1 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:59:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <870801590611141459n74cf6c32y357bf273f069ce7d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:59:06 -0600 From: "Alexandria Doyle" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hair In-Reply-To: <20061114213856.17523.qmail@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061114050619.6svhtw7si8g8oocc@www.formfunction.org> <20061114213856.17523.qmail@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455A6EE5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:35:39 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: adbab20a-23a0-4470-9112-2171276e8efc Status: RO You know, my hair seems to be the opposite of this. Freshly washed I can get my hair to do just about anything, especially if I start while it's slightly damp still. If I try anything with it the day after it's just won't cooperate. It feels a little oil, slick maybe, but few hair things will stay in my hair at that point, except bare rubber bands. In general my hair is very fine, silky to the touch. I have found that if I only use a conditioner on my hair maybe once a week my hair behaves and has some tooth to it so I can do things with it more. So sometimes when I want to put it up and I want it to stay there, I'll use a sport gel while my hair is a little damp. Sometimes a light mist of hair spray before I braid will help as well. It seems to goes through phases so what works in say the summer doesn't work in the winter... alex On 11/14/06, MaggiRos wrote: > It also helps not to wash your hair the same day you > want to do this. Perfectly clean hair tends to slip > out of tight arrangements. > > MaggiRos > > --- formfunc@formfunction.org wrote: > > > I'd be dee-lighted to hear the solution to this > > problem, since I have > > it too. My hair is fine but plentiful, and nothing > > I've tried seems > > able to hold it in place for more than 10 minutes. > > Argh! In fact, > > back in the 80s, my hair wouldn't even hold a perm > > for more than a > > week or two. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 21:43:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF2hoMs015160 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:43:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF2hlGC022638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:43:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF2grEV080984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:42:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF2goQu061796; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:42:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF2glJt061646 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:42:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.251.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.251] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GkAje-0002GN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:42:46 -0500 Message-ID: <455A8C39.9050203@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:40:41 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood & cute portrait repros References: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> <8C8D58136B65A13-B34-4D9@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061114134006.033793e8@suziclarke.co.uk> <20061114160406.ebbix1dbcj5wkgkk@www.formfunction.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455A7EE3.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:43:50 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 04ffad89-3b73-4542-888c-bbe9d4d34796 Status: RO formfunc@formfunction.org wrote: > Quoting Suzi Clarke : > >> museum. There seems to be a French Hood frame there too, but it's like >> no French Hood shape I've ever seen. There are two MoL wire frames possibly from French hoods that are pictured in The Age of Transition: The Archaeology of English Culture 1400-1600. They're very similar. Is this what you're referring to? Each of them has a little ball on both ends of the curve and a spot at each side about temple level where the wire makes a small loop before continuing on the rest of the curve. My theory for this is that the little loops in the wire are anchor points for firmly attaching the wire to the foundation of the crescent. When I used it this way in my hood, it worked very well. Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 21:48:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF2mckn015262 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:48:38 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF2mYYo026186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:48:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF2m3dG081769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:48:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF2m1Ax079449; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:48:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF2lv51079380 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:47:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.251.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.251] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GkAnS-0004AC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:46:42 -0500 Message-ID: <455A8D26.4040806@faucet.net> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:44:38 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review) References: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> <8C8D58136B65A13-B34-4D9@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061114134006.033793e8@suziclarke.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455A8002.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:48:38 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5508c5e9-f4f6-4237-96b7-290ba3d1bb44 Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > > Gable headdresses seem to have been made on a metal wire frame. The one > I made for the Museum of London was based on a copy of the frame in the > museum. <...> > If you want to see it, go here. > http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/Vermeer1.jpg Very pretty! Do the falls in back extend from the two bottom sides of the square in back as they do in the Holbein drawing? They look like they're hanging a little straighter than that. What did you use for stiffening besides the wire frame? Just curious, Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 14 23:21:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF4LTUP018076 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:21:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF4LH58029233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:21:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF4IjGY097130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:18:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF4IfTj066194; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:18:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF4IYHw066113 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:18:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A3882CA066E; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 04:11:52 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hair Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:18:22 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01c7086d$1698ab30$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20061114050619.6svhtw7si8g8oocc@www.formfunction.org> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455A95BD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:21:28 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a0de9dfb-c37a-4fb5-b0c2-7bfe9a821d2a Status: RO Hair spray. It's sticky and even holds my fly away hair. (It does get "crunchy", though.) :-) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of formfunc@formfunction.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 3:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hair I'd be dee-lighted to hear the solution to this problem, since I have it too. My hair is fine but plentiful, and nothing I've tried seems able to hold it in place for more than 10 minutes. Argh! In fact, back in the 80s, my hair wouldn't even hold a perm for more than a week or two. I've considered the french braid thing, but haven't tried it for years--my hair may be long enough again that it'd work now (~3 inches past waist). Which leads to my other problem: since I'm growing out my hair sans trimming, I now have about 6 inches of natural layering (and split ends), which means that when I try to hide the ends of my braids, they poke out all over the place and look awful. It seems like the french braid idea would make it even harder to hide the ends, since there really wouldn't be any place to tuck them out of sight. Any bright ideas? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 15 01:48:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF6meeK021708 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:48:40 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF6maBS027276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:48:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF6jIHL019649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:45:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF6jCJj090485; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:45:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF6j2r2090255 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:45:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from missdoornink@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so56871uge for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:45:02 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:from:to:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index:in-reply-to:x-mimeole:message-id; b=denxZ11RMLPJ5OrwyLhjXHmM/kqC1wDi54S5YpGpr//NxolC/+OH7W94aJw0Ba/fgBbPXLhnrIKjkIPgV7uFx2kPSTgdKApPxPvYreT0u26napkiPz0zl0OsxjKZLyK/vo0GZ9YXulmKgUiUtMbf4WT4kk+yimJ3m1BGUacdNWk= Received: by 10.66.232.9 with SMTP id e9mr1139611ugh.1163573101852; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from doorninklaptop ( [71.1.129.184]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id o30sm405191ugd.2006.11.14.22.44.59; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:45:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Elisabeth Doornink" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hair Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 22:44:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AccIbVX2OaFPVFixQmaFWez6zFJgJwAE7zCg In-Reply-To: <000d01c7086d$1698ab30$0200a8c0@bob3pc> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Message-ID: <455ab76d.4c9f333b.3c6e.3a4e@mx.google.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455AB844.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:48:40 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 41f39f8b-e2f8-4d9f-b267-29878592185c Status: RO My favorite is Suave Freeze Finish Hair Spray. (Professionals Freeze Hold Finishing Non-Aerosol Hair Spray) It leaves the hair very, very secure, but not overly crunch and it still looks natural! We got a whole bunch of sample bottles a long time ago, and they've lasted well. One bottle got stuck to the counter when it leaked. ;-) It's known as hair glue around here! Also, for that slick, fly away hair (I worked with some tonight, actually!) try it when it's at the 'filthy' stage, or at least when it's wet. It also can be in the technique - I've gotten hair into buns that nobody has ever though possible before. The first pin has to almost hold the entire thin (important on any updo) and then the rest are just security. Quia Christus perpetuo regnat, Elisabeth -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon at Collierfam.com Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:18 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hair Hair spray. It's sticky and even holds my fly away hair. (It does get "crunchy", though.) :-) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of formfunc@formfunction.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 3:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hair I'd be dee-lighted to hear the solution to this problem, since I have it too. My hair is fine but plentiful, and nothing I've tried seems able to hold it in place for more than 10 minutes. Argh! In fact, back in the 80s, my hair wouldn't even hold a perm for more than a week or two. I've considered the french braid thing, but haven't tried it for years--my hair may be long enough again that it'd work now (~3 inches past waist). Which leads to my other problem: since I'm growing out my hair sans trimming, I now have about 6 inches of natural layering (and split ends), which means that when I try to hide the ends of my braids, they poke out all over the place and look awful. It seems like the french braid idea would make it even harder to hide the ends, since there really wouldn't be any place to tuck them out of sight. Any bright ideas? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 15 03:47:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF8lCoM018474 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:47:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF8l837031520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:47:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF8i6qr036308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:44:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF8i49r093906; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:44:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF8gYst092690 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:43:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 15 Nov 2006 08:42:28 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAHtgWkXUSnInh2dsb2JhbACBS4sFCQ4q Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1130 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GkGLj-0002cu-Og for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:42:27 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061115083419.0336d8f0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:41:52 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review) In-Reply-To: <455A8D26.4040806@faucet.net> References: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> <8C8D58136B65A13-B34-4D9@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061114134006.033793e8@suziclarke.co.uk> <455A8D26.4040806@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455AD40C.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:47:12 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: cb89dc5e-2ae3-464d-85f1-c89fb9e52936 Status: RO At 03:44 15/11/2006, you wrote: >Suzi Clarke wrote: >>Gable headdresses seem to have been made on a metal wire frame. The >>one I made for the Museum of London was based on a copy of the >>frame in the museum. <...> >>If you want to see it, go here. >>http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Sistersuzi/Vermeer1.jpg > >Very pretty! Do the falls in back extend from the two bottom sides >of the square in back as they do in the Holbein drawing? They look >like they're hanging a little straighter than that. > >What did you use for stiffening besides the wire frame? There was the wire frame at the front, then a square frame for the back, set diagonally. The two were joined/covered with some stiff "Vilene" and "Pelmform" (a stiff stuff you use for curtain pelmets). This began to crumple while I was working on it, so I reinforced it with very short lengths of steel boning from my corset stash. I think buckram would probably have been the best answer, but I find that very hard to handle these days. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 15 03:48:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF8mHYn018552 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:48:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAF8mDnH022799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:48:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAF8hc6v036226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:43:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF8hCga093191; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:43:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF8gYss092690 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:43:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 15 Nov 2006 08:42:27 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAHtgWkXUSnInh2dsb2JhbACBS4sFCQ4q Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1130 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GkGLi-0002cu-QA for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:42:26 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061115082921.0336d7a8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:30:17 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood & cute portrait repros In-Reply-To: <455A8C39.9050203@faucet.net> References: <200611121901.kACJ02sb066877@net.indra.com> <8C8D58136B65A13-B34-4D9@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20061114134006.033793e8@suziclarke.co.uk> <20061114160406.ebbix1dbcj5wkgkk@www.formfunction.org> <455A8C39.9050203@faucet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455AD44D.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:48:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5007e103-0c9e-4d9d-9ced-10c138548b78 Status: RO At 03:40 15/11/2006, you wrote: >formfunc@formfunction.org wrote: >>Quoting Suzi Clarke : >> >>>museum. There seems to be a French Hood frame there too, but it's like >>>no French Hood shape I've ever seen. > >There are two MoL wire frames possibly from French hoods that are >pictured in The Age of Transition: The Archaeology of English >Culture 1400-1600. They're very similar. Is this what you're referring to? > >Each of them has a little ball on both ends of the curve and a spot >at each side about temple level where the wire makes a small loop >before continuing on the rest of the curve. > >My theory for this is that the little loops in the wire are anchor >points for firmly attaching the wire to the foundation of the >crescent. When I used it this way in my hood, it worked very well. > >Melanie I don't know the book to which you refer, but your description sounds about right. Good to know it worked for you. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 15 07:41:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAFCfZ8t027587 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 07:41:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAFCfTno003462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 07:41:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAFCec8o067716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 05:40:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAFCeX6S000791; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 05:40:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep05.xtra.co.nz (fep05.xtra.co.nz [210.54.141.241]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAF6GIPs068234 for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:16:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from michaela ([125.238.121.204]) by fep05.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20061115061609.RZAE27418.fep05.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:16:09 +1300 Message-ID: <00c101c7087d$8cb9f5c0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] iron corset Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:16:12 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=34% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455B0AF9.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 07:41:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6cf0e0d9-9450-4a99-80db-1880075bbab3 Status: RO > There's a line in Eleanora di Firenza's accounts that shows she > ordered two. One is in either the Bargello or the Palazzo Vecchio > collection in Florence. I saw it last summer. The docent there > claimed the steel corset was ordered as an orthotic, rather like a > backbrace. http://www.bordersstores.com/features/feature.jsp?file=corset For more information regarding orthopaedic use. This is from the first chapter of Corset by Valerie Steele. A most useful little page. > Another is in the Italian Rennaissance exhibit at the V&A London. > This one I saw 2 weeks ago, tho I dont recall the owning organization. > Both of these corsets are steel. The catalog for "At Home in the > Italian Rennaissance" states the corset is from the Museo Stibbert > collection, provenance unknown. The catalog says this corset is for a > 65cm bust. http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1487_renaissance/rituals.html This is one of the few that really does look to be an original as the shape is right. Michaela http://glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 15 17:59:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAFMxtiO014283 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:59:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAFMxpUl006402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:59:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAFMwLTE081481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:58:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAFMw3pi010322; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:58:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAFMvwoZ010232 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:58:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ailith@neo.rr.com) Received: from Duncan (cpe-71-66-106-120.neo.res.rr.com [71.66.106.120]) by ms-smtp-02.ohiordc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAFMvtsI008000 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:57:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004201c70909$7afa5410$0202a8c0@Duncan> From: "Ailith Mackintosh" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:57:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costuming website X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455B9BE7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:59:55 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 73ac4aa7-2cb0-42df-b320-89ac0db303f8 Status: RO The text in the pdf files are in Czech, but there are some paintings I've never seen before. And they have pictures of extant garments, too! http://www.kostym.cz/ Just click on the British flag for English. Vive omniem diem sit ultimus, ut qui numquam scis ubi ultimus. Outgoing email scanned by Norton AntiVirus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 15 19:37:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAG0bS5h017467 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:37:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAG0bOTp019777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:37:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAG0ZXJt099812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:35:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAG0ZOJn012071; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:35:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAG0ZJkY011924 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:35:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by arkroyal.concentric.com id TAA25512; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:35:15 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200611160035.TAA25512@arkroyal.concentric.com> Received: from 209.78.214.253 (as jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) by register.concentric.com (207.155.252.115) with Concentric Web Mail; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:35:15 -0800 (PST) From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:35:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200611140610.kAE69Lb3069384@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAG0ZJkY011924 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hair taping X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455BB2C4.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:37:28 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4b1d006c-7fb6-42e3-9c39-2e7971e7cdd8 Status: RO Sorry getting in the middle of the topic. Have you tried braiding your hair when wet or with a little gel or mousse? Usually it isn't thick hair that is the problem but how smooth/slick the strands are. De -----Original Message----- Hi Elizabeth, Yes, I've tried the hair taping (as seen in the second link you gave), and it will only stay on my head if I then wrap the hair in a kertch. It won't stay up on its own, and it wouldn't stay stable for a base for the French hood. Also, it falls apart in the kertch that I wore, and only the wrapping of the fabric around my head kept it from coming down. Maybe it is because I am doing my own hair, it is very thick, and I really don't do much practice in hair braiding in general. I am not sure what else to try, so I gladly will accept suggestions. Kimiko --------------------------------------------- Maybe it has to do with what you're using for the hair taping. Usually we use single faced satin ribbon. Comes out in a day. At one fair we were out of ribbon and so used the lucet braid I had on hand made out of cotton rug warp. That hair taping stayed in for 3 days! I slept with a silk scarf over it. It would have stayed UP longer, but there were too many fuzzies escaping. I wonder if using cotton twill tape instead of satin ribbon would work better. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 15 21:02:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAG2230F019833 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:02:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAG21c2s023792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:02:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAG20oTi017027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:00:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAG20iI1094618; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.168]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAG20eF5094527 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:00:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from missdoornink@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so326131uge for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:00:40 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:from:to:subject:date:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:in-reply-to:thread-index:x-mimeole:message-id; b=K/YUuXwHyJDPSq1drbNxM5DCCQvi7aHYJ5uQgRD7UeFvDxXQbnIHLGzBFkQlXC6+6nGRBoa5nuCTubmeSBYsBlesS5g5tmdAkeZ2YAptV/MQAiYx0gS01LFnniFrcDVcWhIpyoCd6jbS9Myf0jDIGvVKBnWiNmZsd7RxQPOWiLE= Received: by 10.66.242.5 with SMTP id p5mr299757ugh.1163642439922; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from doorninklaptop ( [71.1.130.82]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id x37sm1559259ugc.2006.11.15.18.00.38; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:00:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Elisabeth Doornink" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair taping Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:00:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <200611160035.TAA25512@arkroyal.concentric.com> Thread-Index: AccJF5rWBNypImpaQ9eSCll8isujbAACzf/g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Message-ID: <455bc647.55ceece6.5e36.ffffcced@mx.google.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455BC682.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:02:03 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 28f1bc79-6fbb-42e3-8aa4-8ebc8182803c Status: RO I do hair taping just as a modern type hair do, and have found that I either need to do it when it's wet, or when I've got a bunch of small-ish claw clips to anchor the hair as I tape it. It's gotten easier and easier as my hair has grown - a twist of hair reaches from behind one ear over to the next, and the gravity of the strand helps keep it in place. Quia Christus perpetuo regnat, Elisabeth -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Julie Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 4:35 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] hair taping Sorry getting in the middle of the topic. Have you tried braiding your hair when wet or with a little gel or mousse? Usually it isn't thick hair that is the problem but how smooth/slick the strands are. De -----Original Message----- Hi Elizabeth, Yes, I've tried the hair taping (as seen in the second link you gave), and it will only stay on my head if I then wrap the hair in a kertch. It won't stay up on its own, and it wouldn't stay stable for a base for the French hood. Also, it falls apart in the kertch that I wore, and only the wrapping of the fabric around my head kept it from coming down. Maybe it is because I am doing my own hair, it is very thick, and I really don't do much practice in hair braiding in general. I am not sure what else to try, so I gladly will accept suggestions. Kimiko --------------------------------------------- Maybe it has to do with what you're using for the hair taping. Usually we use single faced satin ribbon. Comes out in a day. At one fair we were out of ribbon and so used the lucet braid I had on hand made out of cotton rug warp. That hair taping stayed in for 3 days! I slept with a silk scarf over it. It would have stayed UP longer, but there were too many fuzzies escaping. I wonder if using cotton twill tape instead of satin ribbon would work better. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 16 01:42:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAG6grfG027374 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 01:42:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAG6gjgN012676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 01:42:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAG6fiRQ068797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:41:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAG6fb1Q048326; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:41:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.91.152]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAG6fVRB048141 for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:41:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from zkraemerova@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 93749 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Nov 2006 06:41:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bBMMjBP6NmA19xPAUQMwvyYPX+z3bQZlpjkTR6x4VNowciPkMCMaiB6ZwH869NGp04fCEb/6u96Eo6y1WMsLy6qzhZu2A33DB7E22We/GKmg9tDdFxfZe1/8CHZf85eB7aapqOoAlWYCIOaSWS84PqbUc6GN/opgI53OF3WQ1QY= ; Message-ID: <20061116064125.93747.qmail@web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.24.150.227] by web37505.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:41:25 PST Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:41:25 -0800 (PST) From: Zuzana Kraemerova Subject: Re: [h-cost] costuming website To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <004201c70909$7afa5410$0202a8c0@Duncan> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455C0865.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 01:42:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6b30f430-b6ec-47a3-91d3-d3eaa3f57687 Status: RO Yeah, I was very surprised when I saw this website for the first time, it's really good and it seems to deal with authenticity. Many very useful pictures, really - and links too. And many others... That's not very usual here...I think the author of this webpage used to have another site which is not working now, but I'm not sure...Her "profile" is under Tailors - Catany. Ailith Mackintosh wrote: The text in the pdf files are in Czech, but there are some paintings I've never seen before. And they have pictures of extant garments, too! http://www.kostym.cz/ Just click on the British flag for English. Vive omniem diem sit ultimus, ut qui numquam scis ubi ultimus. Outgoing email scanned by Norton AntiVirus _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $310,000 Mortgage for $999/mo - Calculate new house payment _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 16 08:16:11 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAGDG55Y002501 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:16:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAGDFxfg008621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:16:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAGDDdpm028573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:13:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAGDDTeh070375; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:13:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAGDDMP7070241 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:13:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from melanie@faucet.net) Received: from dialup-4.229.66.36.dial1.detroit1.level3.net ([4.229.66.36] helo=faucet.net) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Gkh3R-0007L0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:13:22 -0500 Message-ID: <455C7180.7090808@faucet.net> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:11:12 -0600 From: Melanie Schuessler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair taping References: <200611160035.TAA25512@arkroyal.concentric.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455C648F.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:16:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6c55aed1-731e-49f8-b06e-a683f9ddd1d4 Status: RO Julie wrote: > > I wonder if using cotton twill tape instead of satin ribbon would work better. I agree. I use grosgrain ribbon--I think the less slippery, the better! Melanie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 16 10:21:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAGFLxuf005913 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:21:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAGFLsan013648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:21:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAGFJat4056042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:19:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAGFJVmJ003689; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:19:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAGFJLk8003510 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:19:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=stv8pmjZ5JR2X3YjaVOzJ7Bx6WgqW6Cj0JAQrex8SKyknBgvp45Jm0F1+K0XOaOA; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.50] (helo=mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Gkj1M-0006r6-B7 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:19:20 -0500 Received: from 12.23.54.191 by webmail.atl.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:19:20 -0500 Message-ID: <9997548.1163690360361.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:19:20 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair taping Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-ELNK-Trace: 3ad22d0308f02f3c21b586f7ff62647d40683398e744b8a4bc20ac4b443bbd32ecbdeefdcbc83cce387f7b89c61deb1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.50 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455C8212.008 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:21:59 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 82d89319-faa1-4977-96e3-368cf21b7f33 Status: RO I'm intrigued by the reference to Elizabeth's "second link"--I can't find the message this clearly refers to, and maybe "hair taping" would be helpful to me. In my annual "Queen of Yore" gig at a Medieval Banquet church fund-raiser, I fight with my hair (and lose) every year. The King and I (haha) don't wear headdresses--in fact, he won't even consent to a crown but last year acquiesced to my proffered filet, another of which I also wore last year to complement him. A proper headdress would be nice, but the logistics of the event, from dressing space on through chair-to-table distance (our thrones have arms) militate against it, as does the King's preference. (The king is a professional and known actor, a wonderful personality, and a very overweight man--I think his objection to crowns, rings, and other encircling things is a result of this last feature, but any of these would encourage me to defer to his strongly expressed sentiments.) I have hip-length hair, basic beige but dramatically going white in streaks. What I'd like to do is braid it and coil it over my ears (very "yore")--but I can't find a reliable way of anchoring the coils. One year in frustration I gave up and piled it on top of my head and looped pearls around it; one year I just made numerous loops and tied them together above my ears--this looked very Heidi, and they flopped like Beagle's ears when I turned my head...Last year I had a notion of "sewing" the nested coils together with gold cord and then tieing the cord to the filet, but that was an unmitigated disaster that I ripped out with only ten minutes to spare before our grand processional entrance, settling for a bun at the nape of the neck plus those trusty pearls. Can someone direct me to a website or other directions for appropriate and manageable Yore Hair? The Burgundy-style gown has a standing collar. Ever grateful-- Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- >From: Elisabeth Doornink >Sent: Nov 15, 2006 9:00 PM >To: 'Historical Costume' >Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair taping > >I do hair taping just as a modern type hair do, and have found that I either >need to do it when it's wet, or when I've got a bunch of small-ish claw >clips to anchor the hair as I tape it. It's gotten easier and easier as my >hair has grown - a twist of hair reaches from behind one ear over to the >next, and the gravity of the strand helps keep it in place. > >Quia Christus perpetuo regnat, >Elisabeth > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On >Behalf Of Julie >Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 4:35 PM >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] hair taping > >Sorry getting in the middle of the topic. Have you tried braiding your hair >when wet or with a little gel or mousse? Usually it isn't thick hair that is >the problem but how smooth/slick the strands are. >De >-----Original Message----- >Hi Elizabeth, > > Yes, I've tried the hair taping (as seen in the second link you gave), and >it will only stay on my head if I then wrap the hair in a kertch. It won't >stay up on its own, and it wouldn't stay stable for a base for the French >hood. Also, it falls apart in the kertch that I wore, and only the wrapping >of the fabric around my head kept it from coming down. > > Maybe it is because I am doing my own hair, it is very thick, and I really >don't do much practice in hair braiding in general. I am not sure what else >to try, so I gladly will accept suggestions. > > Kimiko >--------------------------------------------- >Maybe it has to do with what you're using for the hair taping. Usually we >use single faced satin ribbon. Comes out in a day. At one fair we were out >of ribbon and so used the lucet braid I had on hand made out of cotton rug >warp. That hair taping stayed in for 3 days! I slept with a silk scarf >over it. It would have stayed UP longer, but there were too many fuzzies >escaping. > >I wonder if using cotton twill tape instead of satin ribbon would work >better. > >Julie > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006 > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006 > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 16 20:29:23 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH1TIf3022973 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:29:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAH1TFMK032578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:29:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAH1QXiC068004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:26:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH1QQkW003759; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:26:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH1QKuM003668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:26:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-220-218-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.220.218]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAH1QHa7014022 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:26:19 +1100 Message-ID: <004301c709e7$62083970$dadcf5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <9997548.1163690360361.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] hair taping Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:26:17 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455D106B.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:29:18 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7c0bd7c8-db0a-461f-82e1-3feb81a5296b Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:19 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] hair taping > I'm intrigued by the reference to Elizabeth's "second link"--I can't find > the message this clearly refers to, and maybe "hair taping" would be > helpful to me. > Ever grateful-- > Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > These are the two links I posted before http://www.mfgraffix.com/hird/faoilt/hairtape.html and http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/hair/Hair%20taping.htm they are both different methods of hair taping as seen in 16th century Italian images, but it's also a plausible way of anchoring headwear such as French Hoods (which is how the discussion came up) You probably couldn't find it because it was under the header 'Tudor Tailor - another review' as part of a discussion of their method of recreating the French Hood. If you've got a particular time period in mind other than 16th century Italy you probably need a hat, but if it's just generic 'medjeeval' then this technique using something non-slip to hold your hair in place and some decorative ribbon or trim over the top could give you a pretty 'olde worlde' look. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 00:35:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH5YvLG029662 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:34:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAH5Yrns007141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:34:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAH5SwaN003506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:28:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH5Srl4016979; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:28:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH5ScWx016825 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:28:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from [71.197.12.37] (helo=momlaptop) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrelayus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1GkwHF0ymG-0003wU; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:28:38 -0500 Message-ID: <000301c70a09$384aad30$6600a8c0@momlaptop> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002c01c7079c$d47e2d40$6400a8c0@momlaptop><7.0.1.0.2.20061113205050.02639678@surewest.net> <1163516589.4559daad2f674@webmail02.unl.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:28:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455D49FD.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 00:34:57 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 09e824bc-4a6c-4d69-b6b3-99c7af7704e4 Status: RO Thank you to everyone who answered my question about porpoise skin. I really appreciate your input. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 01:37:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH6bEoB031257 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:37:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAH6bAnO011954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:37:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAH6aYdf012799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:36:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH6aVp1068613; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:36:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAH6aS3k068536 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:36:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 31721 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2006 06:36:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20061117063623.31719.qmail@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=3Q9LXDyzYOYSXRvWE9yaTMRNWYRts5UBAnDPHYF8UXe1OAcyk5waoceNN+kAz9I+BK6XLuP2xzeKo6qa+3J6OKLME8aqnzzzspy9jbDFseJ8ZgvgfMSzQV4QYC/0jMh17zGlNpLjTb++K/WyEurNCK3xFK6j2zNNoZL66pIi0tU=; X-YMail-OSG: Dftzc30VM1kYs_uIyyLx7t.s3tfg6DMDhp.wktIxBU_D0bJ7BwE9fiF7Ko9xmqnNjRqPP69bJGTOiwvPTehjN6SBFGUtig7IrXhPaD7TX3pUKjG49AlAcjsrQCJj9l4GNUyjb2z2IowNe.I- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:36:23 PST Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:36:23 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor Tailor -- another review To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4559D299.3020103@faucet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455D5896.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:37:14 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ccec9738-9508-4b66-b3dd-7c30ac17878e Status: RO Thanks Melanie for the suggestions. I did part the hair and brush to the sides, but that didn't help my hair much. I did not roll the hair, as I was trying for the earlier smooth hair style. The idea of sewing the tape to the rest of the hair may work, so I will try that and see what happens, along with hair products. Kimiko Melanie Schuessler wrote: This is the method I use. Thanks for the good website ref! Before I do the braids, though, I part in the center and roll the front of each side like this http://www.marileecody.com/isabel.jpg That keeps the front under control, and makes those little rolls along the hairline. My hair does not stay with pins, as it's too slippery (or maybe it's the shape of my head!). I have to sew the braids to the hair underneath (not just to each other) with ribbon to make it stay. Kimiko, adding gel or mousse and braiding tightly while wet will help. The product will make your hair stick to itself better, and the water will keep it all together while you're braiding. Parting it in the center and brushing to either side before braiding in two braids will also help--that way the hair you're sewing the braids to is going in the ear-to-ear direction instead of the forehead-to-nape direction, and the braids can't "slide" down the back of your head once sewn to the rest of the hair. Good luck! If I can do it with my hair (which doesn't like to stay _anywhere_), you can too. Melanie --------------------------------- Sponsored Link $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 01:45:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH6jd0n031449 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:45:39 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAH6jZwM008745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:45:39 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAH6jJwc013699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:45:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH6jI3F075140; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:45:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAH6jEGm075023 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:45:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 23152 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2006 06:45:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=3a+pCgJRlWOFPiCfetuUM1h5Dt8nmV8rVcYqYcAFwznV+TMcyVme3JPZ3ovWXtkR5Dm1dAyyXwcapcfxjpt2P94H17F4lx2bB6VW2GQnJo3NQo5VNpEF97sLUtLCVaFUjAluUBbi7JRVnyGcK8aj+r+iLvI35CzZxW6czOzPCuc=; X-YMail-OSG: O0Jz01oVM1nwEgxeNYr_sXRNSHv44WLWdH.IFk.EFeGOBhrBjobOPwnt8nCBZeHpNoaEtFGK.Bb2Xfe9T4sLjTKaHXXc9sAppVsptd_B484NTwsCYgl4xalS4ncL2vwz_UmMDQ.13Hq8hVc- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:45:09 PST Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:45:09 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4559D3C5.7010509@faucet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <408652.22737.qm@web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 455D5A8F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:45:39 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 62f9103b-8b56-400c-a6e6-3eea13ff6f55 Status: RO I have plans to do a gathering of images for gabled hoods, which I think developed from earlier "hoods" of the late 1400s. I've been collecting images as I can, and when I get time this winter (I hope) I want to get them online. My next hood will be the gable, as my group does 1520s events, so the gable is a better choice for us. Kimiko Melanie Schuessler wrote: > I've always thought that if someone made a timeline of images showing > how the gable and French hood > headdresses evolved from earlier fashions, it would help us figure > out what's under there. But then, > maybe you would need to know what was under there before you could > make such a timeline. A timeline can definitely help. I've developed one for the French hood, and from it I can formulate hypotheses about the layers. I haven't done the same for the gable, however. Melanie --------------------------------- Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $310,000 Mortgage for $999/mo - Calculate new house payment _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 01:53:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH6r20T031577 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:53:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAH6qx2i021839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:53:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAH6qcFT014654 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAH6qatn080505; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:52:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.138]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAH6qXPI080402 for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:52:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 66652 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2006 06:52:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=YgD1pBffBFzKhwu635Uyym6i2CWJw2s9ttBDIx6EZW9t95cylvi/0ox1eF94tSYMgWHRN2OehfpV3uTlBIdQ5i7CbrI42xmBg7EPbJRLGuPhjAdu0FNBuQyyRmayrLmJUJQjhqIuuPJ4l9ZD6vIFI6QI2ksdULzlKfubB/cPqqg=; X-YMail-OSG: ZSymZDAVM1nuASO..RPOGAYbjunNpw1YCAnEqMbzWCUl7yQ5aJ46_h0Cdt29KdtL3Gtkwv9JChL4ykLuMqX17T4y4rQdIxcM_QcP2Vtxmx_5OdU9FWu9eb1lvI018SL28bciOrXPSDpCkbE- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:52:28 PST Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:52:28 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood & cute portrait repros To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20061114160406.ebbix1dbcj5wkgkk@www.formfunction.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <219760.65790.qm@web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455D5C4B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:53:02 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 649aca4f-af5f-4eeb-95ee-29cd62e3bfd4 Status: RO Hi E House, Project Gutenberg is being a pain in showing the image, which it won't allow a direct link like that. So, would you mind telling us what it is you are referring to,and how we can locate that image, please? Thanks, Kimiko formfunc@formfunction.org wrote: Or perhaps it would work as the back curve on this: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14264/14264-h/images/30ppi/plate53.jpg --------------------------------- Sponsored Link $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/month - Think You Pay Too Much For Your Mortgage? Find Out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 07:46:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHCkjeL005855 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:46:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAHCkgZL026981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:46:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAHCjYWe067304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 05:45:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHCjQtP056243; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 05:45:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHCjLpu056152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 05:45:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (c-75-68-166-211.hsd1.vt.comcast.net [75.68.166.211]) (authenticated bits=0) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kAHCjJAq004698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:45:20 -0500 Message-ID: <455DAD3E.7000904@uvm.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:38:22 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Macintosh/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review) References: <408652.22737.qm@web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <408652.22737.qm@web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455DAF32.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:46:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 0457700b-c2b6-47bc-ade0-5a7f0565879c Status: RO Hi - Feel free to use any of these images. All the citations are there... http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/gable.html - Hope Kimiko Small wrote: > I have plans to do a gathering of images for gabled hoods, which I think developed from earlier "hoods" of the late 1400s. I've been collecting images as I can, and when I get time this winter (I hope) I want to get them online. My next hood will be the gable, as my group does 1520s events, so the gable is a better choice for us. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 13:44:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHIiOil017038 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:44:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAHIiF4U019649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:44:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAHIhBkI041462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:43:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHIgL1V061398; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:42:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32202.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32202.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.133]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAHIeukG059760 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:41:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 57181 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2006 18:40:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=gSum8WyHkMJ/I3T39rKdgns5MLlh+/mPAnO7Kv8z+ViWDFvexhGyzh1f0hNN9nM98f8teD8MZb+W4p2OvaM4zGKBnl6hZf9D2gWUGHHV6UJkGtd96sp2AXdBwmq2ONDyA181Df/AAzsaldzyTj11kkyLX7hM4GL+iJQ1pGa6HlU=; X-YMail-OSG: 96X_VUoVM1nozAtbEVSrqAfmUnDGCJCqN1HDtQ4x5rbwjQG37uQZPprkN_.wVu6p0SbKwaZ8xZULhA..pbNVUDLZ1ll7Wmj2mRFTd.PcmxDy_rHg_ESLgnYBt6wT7hg.niNukv5.7UBmzgXxrpXlOluZlqewLEgE6Q-- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32202.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:40:36 PST Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:40:36 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood (was Tudor Tailor review) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <455DAD3E.7000904@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <184199.57121.qm@web32202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455E02FF.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:44:24 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Wonderful, Thank you Hope! Kimiko Hope Greenberg wrote: Hi - Feel free to use any of these images. All the citations are there... http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/gable.html - Hope Kimiko Small wrote: > I have plans to do a gathering of images for gabled hoods, which I think developed from earlier "hoods" of the late 1400s. I've been collecting images as I can, and when I get time this winter (I hope) I want to get them online. My next hood will be the gable, as my group does 1520s events, so the gable is a better choice for us. > --------------------------------- Sponsored Link Don't quit your job - take classes online and earn your degree in 1 year. Start Today _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 14:47:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHJlBCi018874 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:47:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAHJl7n9015697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:47:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAHJi26D053077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:44:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHJhSoH027379; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:43:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHJhHJs027013 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:43:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.29]) by ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061117194306.PACC27379.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net> for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:43:06 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.29]) by ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061117194305.LJKI25313.ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:43:05 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061117134130.02834ec0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:43:01 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Naalbinding site of interest X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455E11BB.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:47:11 -0500 (EST) Status: RO I thought that this "catalogue of needlebound artefacts" would be of interest: http://www.dueppel.de/nadelbind/nadelbkat.htm Their bibliography is at http://www.dueppel.de/nadelbind/bibliographie.htm Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 15:14:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHKE4Ap019486 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:14:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAHKE0Jh012565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:14:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAHKCC4j058069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:12:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHKC6bC060075; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:12:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHKBYSA059505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:11:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from cpanel by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Gl90O-0008T5-9y for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:04:04 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) by www.formfunction.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:04:04 -0600 Message-ID: <20061117130404.ajvx678w2wxco40k@www.formfunction.org> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:04:04 -0600 From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood & cute portrait repros References: <20061117184340.10212.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061117184340.10212.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455E1808.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:14:04 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Quoting MaggiRos : > Cut and paste the link into the Address line, and it > works fine. I can't imagine why they don't want you > clicking directly, but there it is. It's the Holbein > sketch of Lady Audley. Yup, sorry about that--or try here for a larger/less clear version: http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Grey,Elizabeth(BAudley)01.jpg I doubt it would be stiffened like that, anyway, so it's hardly worth the trouble! =} -E house _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 15:19:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHKJCAi019602 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:19:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAHKJ81c017215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:19:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAHIhxgF041661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:44:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHIhp5x062731; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:43:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAHIhjUC062531 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:43:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maggiros@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 10214 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Nov 2006 18:43:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20061117184340.10212.qmail@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=W0gjGITeW8hCMFNCtLXEnrGK20kGMCcPzOAKPS+IyciNdPs7mziy7B/tkm+TyMOf30VUiIgzTbc4924MMX/ogrNQHyE4IPvU6/T7i1DXS4pbDQwDPtY0qeVE7l00jG93/kOnKbJFM2sdo7fOjKg2DvmSrsHUxdr7Jx81s9e879o=; X-YMail-OSG: cmat.g4VM1mNweAUb4Mm7rj435Zq7J7UOVrLged3 Received: from [148.107.3.20] by web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:43:40 PST Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 10:43:40 -0800 (PST) From: MaggiRos Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French Hood & cute portrait repros To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <219760.65790.qm@web32207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455E193C.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:19:12 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Cut and paste the link into the Address line, and it works fine. I can't imagine why they don't want you clicking directly, but there it is. It's the Holbein sketch of Lady Audley. MaggiRos --- Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi E House, > > Project Gutenberg is being a pain in showing the > image, which it won't allow a direct link like that. > So, would you mind telling us what it is you are > referring to,and how we can locate that image, > please? > > Thanks, > > Kimiko > > formfunc@formfunction.org wrote: > Or perhaps it would work as the back curve on > this: > http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14264/14264-h/images/30ppi/plate53.jpg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 16:28:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHLSmd2021326 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:28:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAHLSiDh008680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:28:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAHLQ01k072429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:26:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHLPkdh047239; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:25:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHLPXx9046904 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 14:25:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.cd6.1b1fc49 (60466) for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:25:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-d25 (mblk-d25.mblk.aol.com [205.188.149.17]) by ciaaol-m01.mx.aol.com (v114.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM013-ec32455e28c1352; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:25:22 -0500 References: <200611171903.kAHJ1URw080637@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:25:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200611171903.kAHJ1URw080637@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 22250 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.17) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:25:21 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8D8A605C9360D-F8-5CCE@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 205.188.149.17 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: French hood and gable hood X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 455E298C.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:28:48 -0500 (EST) Status: RO So, I've always wondered, in this painting of Henry VIII's family, ( http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/HenryVIIIfamily1.jpg ) (sorry, I can't find a better copy of that online) is Elizabeth of York wearing a predecessor of the gable hood? Or is that considered to be the same thing, just with the side flaps flipped down instead of pinned up? Does anyone have more images of that type of headdress? Tea Rose ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 17 18:29:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHNT3tf024049 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:29:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAHNSx2o015330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:29:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAHNQZXl096092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:26:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHNQMaa085474; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:26:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAHNPwiJ084986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:26:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from cpanel by aethelwulf.jatol.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GlD6T-0002yN-S2 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:26:37 -0600 Received: from 24.216.120.37 ([24.216.120.37]) by www.formfunction.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:26:37 -0600 Message-ID: <20061117172637.uuu4hwe6uxus4o0o@www.formfunction.org> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 17:26:37 -0600 From: formfunc@formfunction.org To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French hood and gable hood References: <200611171903.kAHJ1URw080637@net.indra.com> <8C8D8A605C9360D-F8-5CCE@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8D8A605C9360D-F8-5CCE@mblk-d25.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 455E45BB.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:29:03 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Quoting tearoses@aol.com: > is Elizabeth of York wearing a predecessor of the gable hood? Or is > that considered to be the same thing, just with the side flaps > flipped down instead of pinned up? Does anyone have more images of > that type of headdress? It's called a kennel hood/headdress--and yep, it is the direct ancestor of the gable hood; in fact, most places will just call it "early gable hood". It seems to show up a ton on monumental brasses and effigies from around 1490-1510, though not too many paintings. Here's the Elizabeth of York portrait probably being copied by that dynastic portrait: http://tudorhistory.org/people/eyork/eyork1.jpg -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 00:41:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK5f8JA029931 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:41:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAK5f4d2012723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:41:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAK5ceN0076559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:38:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK5cZtw079185; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:38:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK5cUSC079128 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:38:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m24.in-tch.com [216.166.191.24]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAK5Q8G15951 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:26:08 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <003301c70c67$4b93f120$18bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:46:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45613FF0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:41:08 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Hi, gang. A lady on another list is asking about the dress in the link below. I'm pretty sure we've discussed it on this list before, but I didn't save any of the messages. It's an early ItalianRen style, and the posters who've responded on the list seem about evenly divided between thinking of the outfit as a single gown with a contrasting panel, or as two separate gowns. I told the original poster I'd ask here, since she isn't on this list.... Thanks, Sue ----- Original Message ----- > Good Morning all, > > I am looking for any information I can get on the dress in the top picture > on this link. Specifically has anyone ever seen any other dresses from this > period (approx. 1360) with this panel front style? I've found only one other > I believe it is Giottino, titled ³Pieta². Can anyone steer me to further > information on this style? > > Here's the link: http://www.barjaveldesign.com/dresses_1360.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 01:19:57 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK6Jrwo031155 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 01:19:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAK6JncI016861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 01:19:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAK6HJJV081023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:17:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK6HHVE003922; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:17:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1b.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK6HEt2003879 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:17:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 72A7138113 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:17:09 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:17:21 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003301c70c67$4b93f120$18bfa6d8@pavilion> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45614905.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 01:19:53 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Yes, there is another picture where the donor is wearing a dark brown with a gold front panel, kneeling near a cross. Giottino "Pieta" or Pieta of San Remigio http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/g/p-giottin1.htm There is a possible 3rd dress. It is from a manuscript and I no longer have the url. The drawing is not great in that it looks as if it has a red front panel and the rest of the dress is striped in 4 colors or the red is one of the stripes and was drawn to fat. The dress the questioner presents is also under debate by many as to whether it is a red dress with a white coat dagged at the hem and the gold thingies are ties to hold the jacket in place. Other think that it is a whole dress with a red front panel and red gores. and one other theory is that it is a white dress with a red front panel with dags at the hem showing the lining of the dress which is red. There is a fresco that shows a dancer with a dagged hem overdress so the latter is a possibility. De -----Original Message----- Hi, gang. A lady on another list is asking about the dress in the link below. I'm pretty sure we've discussed it on this list before, but I didn't save any of the messages. It's an early ItalianRen style, and the posters who've responded on the list seem about evenly divided between thinking of the outfit as a single gown with a contrasting panel, or as two separate gowns. I told the original poster I'd ask here, since she isn't on this list.... Thanks, Sue ----- Original Message ----- > Good Morning all, > > I am looking for any information I can get on the dress in the top picture on this link. Specifically has anyone ever seen any other dresses from this > period (approx. 1360) with this panel front style? I've found only one other > I believe it is Giottino, titled ³Pieta². Can anyone steer me to further > information on this style? > > Here's the link: http://www.barjaveldesign.com/dresses_1360.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 01:28:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK6S82A031348 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 01:28:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAK6S42n016094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 01:28:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAK6PruY081924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:25:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK6PqcL008972; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:25:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [63.240.77.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAK6PnDu008922 for ; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:25:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from chiara.francesca@gmail.com) Received: from cheslaptop (cpe-76-185-44-97.tx.res.rr.com[76.185.44.97]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006112006254301100stcpge>; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 06:25:43 +0000 Message-ID: <023401c70c6c$b5036b90$070ba8c0@CHESLAPTOP> From: "Chiara Francesca" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003301c70c67$4b93f120$18bfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:16:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45614AF4.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 01:28:07 -0500 (EST) Status: RO It looks like the style of ANDREA DA FIRENZE (originally Andrea Bonaiuto) Italian painter, Florentine school (active 1343-1377, Firenze) http://tinyurl.com/vvk6g ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 11:46 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress > Hi, gang. A lady on another list is asking about the dress in the link > below. I'm pretty sure we've discussed it on this list before, but I > didn't > save any of the messages. It's an early ItalianRen style, and the posters > who've responded on the list seem about evenly divided between thinking of > the outfit as a single gown with a contrasting panel, or as two separate > gowns. I told the original poster I'd ask here, since she isn't on this > list.... > Thanks, > Sue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> Good Morning all, >> >> I am looking for any information I can get on the dress in the top >> picture >> on this link. Specifically has anyone ever seen any other dresses from > this >> period (approx. 1360) with this panel front style? I've found only one > other >> I believe it is Giottino, titled ³Pieta². Can anyone steer me to further >> information on this style? >> >> Here's the link: http://www.barjaveldesign.com/dresses_1360.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 15:02:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKK2Y0F000739 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:02:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAKK2SYf026958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:02:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAKJxCUv023639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:59:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKJwLhw099398; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:58:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.168]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKJw2VI099001 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:58:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id s2so1281643uge for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:57:57 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=WxFsl/iLpZehRq08y2Zvy62ZBwBSpCb4RBJIdgA2LoDefeQNSTkLk1IFH7JE7iDwHNclDD3gH8z+6ZrixWIWGSM8xmeUY1dMwK5gt2hIKzlUqkQ55JHzJWPECvR3E9WhiUguuUiGLgUnPZ3PxZ+tAm1Uiejq+vhWpNfCIQplASA= Received: by 10.82.142.9 with SMTP id p9mr713595bud.1164052677338; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.184.5 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:57:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070611201157u2c8dc361rd53f9ab053ea58ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:57:57 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] kyoto fashion book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456209D4.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:02:34 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 38887c38-f9a4-4408-99af-51d208223659 Status: RO Barnes and Noble has the Kyoto Fashion book (ISBN: 0760782024, Pub. Date: August 2006), the original one volume version, on sale for $19.98 (even less if you're a B&N member). http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780760782026&itm=36 Katy -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 15:24:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKKOmbm001402 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:24:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAKKOgr6026237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:24:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAKKLbP2028254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:21:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKKLYVr027661; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:21:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKKLVBu027458 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:21:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.180.102]) by ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061120202125.VICC23383.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:21:25 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.102]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061120202124.HBNG4441.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:21:24 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061120133453.02b5d230@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:21:20 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200611201902.kAKJ0Wib026391@net.indra.com> References: <200611201902.kAKJ0Wib026391@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAKKLVBu027458 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45620F0A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:24:48 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 96f918a6-9ddb-4307-a322-fe8386f59e63 Status: RO Now that is an interesting image! I assume that we are talking about the one on the left standing in the doorway? I captured the image and enlarged it (with some additional image enhancements) to see the detail better. The red was showing through the slashes at the elbows, but the bottom clearly shows that they are two separate garments (where the white dags flip up). I really love the oak-leafed dags down the front of both sides of the opening. I took the image as far as the resolution allows and would like to examine the sleeves and neck better. I would like to do my own high resolution scan. What is the book that had this illustration? I would be happy to send the image close-ups if needed. Beth >Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:46:57 -0700 >From: "Sue Clemenger" > >Hi, gang. A lady on another list is asking about the dress in the link >below. I'm pretty sure we've discussed it on this list before, but I didn't >save any of the messages. It's an early ItalianRen style, and the posters >who've responded on the list seem about evenly divided between thinking of >the outfit as a single gown with a contrasting panel, or as two separate >gowns. I told the original poster I'd ask here, since she isn't on this >list.... >Thanks, >Sue > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > Good Morning all, > > > > I am looking for any information I can get on the dress in the top picture > > on this link. Specifically has anyone ever seen any other dresses from >this > > period (approx. 1360) with this panel front style? I've found only one >other > > I believe it is Giottino, titled ³Pieta². Can anyone steer me to further > > information on this style? > > > > Here's the link: http://www.barjaveldesign.com/dresses_1360.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 15:46:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKKk0X2002171 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:46:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAKKjuWr005165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:45:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAKKi3Lm032913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:44:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKKhoAR054068; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:43:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKKhh42053865 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:43:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t11so2215798wxc for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:43:39 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=NhOxPXgMG2cVY2kLxT24hDbUns1WalYCvhwQRp9GR/TwvLPuVms+Nq8H4G6c91BKQNjyKfudrKjnjTo9smUZOBMpP390DpVKC5hUiYN8NgeUQFvZj4XoiQrjYMa2iWJFJDwnl76g6CRfIDFQQAPC9wm+vzPRhbsKYAvxZDBOrGs= Received: by 10.90.29.2 with SMTP id c2mr3917323agc.1164055419353; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.232.4 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:43:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8296995c0611201243i7d02bcf6uad63889030f83578@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:43:39 -0800 From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Rory Downward" , "Thena MacArthur" , "Historical Costume" In-Reply-To: <20061120184850.54855.qmail@web38203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061120184850.54855.qmail@web38203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAKKhh42053865 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45621404.009 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:46:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3bea1f7a-426e-429f-a0c3-ffa0d236e30a Status: RO I'm taking the liberty of forwarding this message to the world-wide costuming community because our wonderful queen's beautiful dress has been stolen from her basement in San Francisco, California. If you see this costume in your area, please use the contact information or contact the Greater Bay Area Costumers' Guild via their website so we can get this work of art back where it belongs. LynnD ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dorothy Truslow Date: Nov 20, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume To: GBACGCostumers@yahoogroups.com Forwarded message follows. If you see the costume in your local thrift shop, please contact Deborah ASAP. Here's hoping it's safely recovered! - Dorothy > Help! My San Francisco garage was ransacked Saturday > night, November 18. Thieves stole the beautiful Queen's dress I've > worn at Folsom Faire, The Revels and at Valhalla; to be more > precise, they took the bodice, sleeves and overskirt. > > Designed and made by Liz Martin, this unique purple > (okay, aubergine) velvet confection—beaded and pearled to within an > inch of its life by the fabulous women of St. Matthews Guild—weighs at > least 30 pounds. > > Pictures here: > http://www.folsomfaire.com/StMPhotos/PhotosF05Q1.htm > > The SFPD is looking for it. The officers who took > the report say it's likely to turn up since it's so unusual; one of the > officers is a Faire fan and even asked about Dickens. > > As you shop Bay Area costume and thrift shops for > your pleasure this season, please keep an eye out for the dress. It's > tough to miss. > > (Yes, we've had security issues before. I was taking > the dress up to my Dad's for safekeeping at Thanksgiving. Sigh.) > > Generous reward offered. Please spread the word. > > Thanks so much. > > Deborah Doyle (cell: 415-269-0540) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 16:55:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKLt9OJ004966 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:55:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAKLt5x1001021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:55:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAKLrdA4044517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:53:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKLrOt8035500; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:53:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf3.socket.net (mf3j.socket.net [216.106.88.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKLrKeZ035422 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:53:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf3.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D0053DA8A for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:53:19 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seeking info on dress Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:53:33 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20061120133453.02b5d230@mail.alltel.net> Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45622439.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:55:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6b83e6e9-81c6-4aae-99a2-14f6a635996e Status: RO The one corner can also be interpreted as an overlap that one gets with flared bottom. The corner section could be the hem of the white part or it could be shadow. The left on the hem seems to indicate that the red continues with the white in a manner that some gores made of certain materials would lay. This is the first I have heard the gold thingies as dags. I would not consider them dags because they are quite small, the way they lay on the dress, the spacing and the connection points between the thingies and dress(?) is a bit narrow. The "slash" seems to ride along the trim so it could be a slash or remnants of what is left from the "trim". I not sure I would agree that it is a slash but it is a possibility. If a slash, there is also the possibility that it is the lining of the dress and not a separate gown from the white. De -----Original Message----- Now that is an interesting image! I assume that we are talking about the one on the left standing in the doorway? I captured the image and enlarged it (with some additional image enhancements) to see the detail better. The red was showing through the slashes at the elbows, but the bottom clearly shows that they are two separate garments (where the white dags flip up). I really love the oak-leafed dags down the front of both sides of the opening. I took the image as far as the resolution allows and would like to examine the sleeves and neck better. I would like to do my own high resolution scan. What is the book that had this illustration? I would be happy to send the image close-ups if needed. Beth >Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:46:57 -0700 >From: "Sue Clemenger" > >Hi, gang. A lady on another list is asking about the dress in the link >below. I'm pretty sure we've discussed it on this list before, but I didn't >save any of the messages. It's an early ItalianRen style, and the posters >who've responded on the list seem about evenly divided between thinking of >the outfit as a single gown with a contrasting panel, or as two separate >gowns. I told the original poster I'd ask here, since she isn't on this >list.... >Thanks, >Sue > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > Good Morning all, > > > > I am looking for any information I can get on the dress in the top picture > > on this link. Specifically has anyone ever seen any other dresses from >this > > period (approx. 1360) with this panel front style? I've found only one >other > > I believe it is Giottino, titled ³Pieta². Can anyone steer me to further > > information on this style? > > > > Here's the link: http://www.barjaveldesign.com/dresses_1360.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 17:23:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKMNrFo005953 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:23:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAKMNnDe029251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:23:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAKMMwxm050059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:22:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAKMMrD9068012; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:22:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAKMMiUV067761 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:22:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 53013 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2006 22:22:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=IetMhW236a5bajgJxd8L2+l+2JLIGQ2os1spkr5Og8DK0WUA7rH2SVWXFK/YsRSUMatxi+NuGyMLjtzJNLTkNoX2bXehDDU0bEzTtfi1I9268wqqmPLaSfWKvBnpHvFRunP045MVGhQQUJkKpwYUnRNlt2E12ni/Lkl85UCB/0Y= ; Received: from unknown (HELO Angela) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@63.202.198.62 with login) by smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2006 22:22:33 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: hQrP56EVM1kEoxX_FoZjrloqMqWdDFhwDztDRvLjJ_8_zfBYwcz88gf4tc4y1ZK5zZKIcac6fl1IG.QIiLEDX8KC386eq3e1FklVfLBPbZJU96LrJdcItw-- Message-ID: <010e01c70cf2$60b82bd0$080010ac@Angela> From: "H_Costume" To: "Historical Costume" , "Rory Downward" , "Thena MacArthur" References: <20061120184850.54855.qmail@web38203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8296995c0611201243i7d02bcf6uad63889030f83578@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:22:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45622AF5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:23:53 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 598a3fd3-19ce-42e0-9e6c-4b985c51c5cc Status: RO I've sent it to the costumer's alliance here in the bay area, which should reach all of the main scholastic and rental organizations. What about the CSA? Is that worth a shot? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." All's Well That Ends Well 1.1.65-6, Countess to Bertram W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Rory Downward" ; "Thena MacArthur" ; "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:43 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume > I'm taking the liberty of forwarding this message to the world-wide > costuming community because our wonderful queen's beautiful dress has > been stolen from her basement in San Francisco, California. If you see > this costume in your area, please use the contact information or > contact the Greater Bay Area Costumers' Guild via their website so we > can get this work of art back where it belongs. > > LynnD > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Dorothy Truslow > Date: Nov 20, 2006 10:48 AM > Subject: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume > To: GBACGCostumers@yahoogroups.com > > Forwarded message follows. If you see the costume in your local thrift > shop, please contact Deborah ASAP. Here's hoping it's safely > recovered! > > - Dorothy > > > Help! My San Francisco garage was ransacked Saturday > > night, November 18. Thieves stole the beautiful Queen's dress I've > > worn at Folsom Faire, The Revels and at Valhalla; to be more > > precise, they took the bodice, sleeves and overskirt. > > > > Designed and made by Liz Martin, this unique purple > > (okay, aubergine) velvet confection—beaded and pearled to within an > > inch of its life by the fabulous women of St. Matthews Guild—weighs at > > least 30 pounds. > > > > Pictures here: > > http://www.folsomfaire.com/StMPhotos/PhotosF05Q1.htm > > > > The SFPD is looking for it. The officers who took > > the report say it's likely to turn up since it's so unusual; one of the > > officers is a Faire fan and even asked about Dickens. > > > > As you shop Bay Area costume and thrift shops for > > your pleasure this season, please keep an eye out for the dress. It's > > tough to miss. > > > > (Yes, we've had security issues before. I was taking > > the dress up to my Dad's for safekeeping at Thanksgiving. Sigh.) > > > > Generous reward offered. Please spread the word. > > > > Thanks so much. > > > > Deborah Doyle (cell: 415-269-0540) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 19:09:50 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL09j4r009394 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:09:50 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL09fi5009451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:09:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL08qQm069028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:08:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL08jkh080219; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL08fMr080173 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:08:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12912 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:53:51 -0600 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:53:51 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seeking info on dress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456243C5.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:09:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 31489529-42af-41fd-b19d-65e51281eb4a Status: RO > > > Here's the link: http://www.barjaveldesign.com/dresses_1360.htm This dress comes up periodically on the list. Here's one earlier discussion, from November 2001, that might be helpful: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/index.cgi?s=6-panel+cotehardie+question&l=hcos01 There are thirteen relevant posts in the thread; this search also turns up a couple of digressive subthreads at the end. You can also see them in raw form here, as part of a single LARGE file: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion/hcos01/hcos11.cl ... if you scroll down to the subject line "6-panel cotehardie question" starting Nov. 27. Most of us determined (independently) that it was likely a white dress over a red dress, in large part based on the behavior of the hem. The white fringy things down the front might be dags, or (as Teddy suggested) there might be a narrow red strip with white patterning running down each front edge of the white dress, which can not be distinguished in the image from the red dress beneath. Remember this is a scanned photo of a rather worn fresco! Interestingly, the image cited in that discussion: http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/giovanni/milano/birth.html is attributed to a different artist, but it does seem to be the same painting. Maybe a different version of the artist's name? Beth, maybe the Web Gallery of Art version will be a better scan for you to work with. --Robin who knows nothing about Italian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 19:19:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL0JWCU009699 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:19:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL0JSTq004606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:19:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL0J2K3070776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:19:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL0IxLt090469; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:19:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL0Is1w090388 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:18:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m22so1010268nzf for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:18:54 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=F6WV5LLD1llRar6pAHfRtnuVpF+TOx6mSBbYKMemVF8hzqzL0uB51FCNJZWeEMw7YzM0uXGznII0oztrsXLoaWat902XVCvhsGWN17AqsLgs/NN1igBGufvArrZ6lbJhrJtsq7GV6DV3butPscj3g8wKz7aIMAsN6Bf80SPHoHY= Received: by 10.65.114.4 with SMTP id r4mr3845484qbm.1164068333319; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.232.4 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:18:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8296995c0611201618ra913de5n731557e8bb001366@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:18:51 -0800 From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume In-Reply-To: <010e01c70cf2$60b82bd0$080010ac@Angela> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061120184850.54855.qmail@web38203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8296995c0611201243i7d02bcf6uad63889030f83578@mail.gmail.com> <010e01c70cf2$60b82bd0$080010ac@Angela> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAL0Is1w090388 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45624610.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:19:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 41d10d2b-9493-4002-adc7-4fb5f5db9653 Status: RO Angela, thanks for the suggestion. i'm not on that list but if you wouldn't mind sending it, I'd sure appreciate it. It's absolutely worth a shot. I know this dress and it's really beautiful! The people who made it are real research mavens and handwork miracles. All our outfits are costly and time consuming, but this one was for the queen, and nothing was spared for the materials and the workmanship on this dress. LynnD On 11/20/06, H_Costume wrote: > I've sent it to the costumer's alliance here in the bay area, which should > reach all of the main scholastic and rental organizations. > > What about the CSA? Is that worth a shot? > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Cabbage Rose Costumes > Theatrical Costume Design > "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: > be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, > and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: > be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." > All's Well That Ends Well 1.1.65-6, Countess to Bertram > W. Shakespeare > > http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lynn Downward" > To: "Rory Downward" ; "Thena MacArthur" > ; "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:43 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume > > > > I'm taking the liberty of forwarding this message to the world-wide > > costuming community because our wonderful queen's beautiful dress has > > been stolen from her basement in San Francisco, California. If you see > > this costume in your area, please use the contact information or > > contact the Greater Bay Area Costumers' Guild via their website so we > > can get this work of art back where it belongs. > > > > LynnD > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Dorothy Truslow > > Date: Nov 20, 2006 10:48 AM > > Subject: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume > > To: GBACGCostumers@yahoogroups.com > > > > Forwarded message follows. If you see the costume in your local thrift > > shop, please contact Deborah ASAP. Here's hoping it's safely > > recovered! > > > > - Dorothy > > > > > Help! My San Francisco garage was ransacked Saturday > > > night, November 18. Thieves stole the beautiful Queen's dress I've > > > worn at Folsom Faire, The Revels and at Valhalla; to be more > > > precise, they took the bodice, sleeves and overskirt. > > > > > > Designed and made by Liz Martin, this unique purple > > > (okay, aubergine) velvet confection—beaded and pearled to within an > > > inch of its life by the fabulous women of St. Matthews Guild—weighs at > > > least 30 pounds. > > > > > > Pictures here: > > > http://www.folsomfaire.com/StMPhotos/PhotosF05Q1.htm > > > > > > The SFPD is looking for it. The officers who took > > > the report say it's likely to turn up since it's so unusual; one of the > > > officers is a Faire fan and even asked about Dickens. > > > > > > As you shop Bay Area costume and thrift shops for > > > your pleasure this season, please keep an eye out for the dress. It's > > > tough to miss. > > > > > > (Yes, we've had security issues before. I was taking > > > the dress up to my Dad's for safekeeping at Thanksgiving. Sigh.) > > > > > > Generous reward offered. Please spread the word. > > > > > > Thanks so much. > > > > > > Deborah Doyle (cell: 415-269-0540) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 21:16:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2G5h8015427 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:16:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL2G2Y8014009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:16:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL2FQxU091503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:15:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2FMKE097913; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:15:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2FJwm097779 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:15:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.36]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121021514.SSSD24535.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:15:14 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.36]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121021513.MJKS4441.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:15:13 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061120200505.02898170@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:15:07 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200611201902.kAKJ0Wib026391@net.indra.com> References: <200611201902.kAKJ0Wib026391@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45626162.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:16:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: eb632731-4fdb-43c8-bf48-de7853337d11 Status: RO This is the one that I'm seeking a higher res image for, but there was enough to enlarge and determine that it is two layers (dress and coat) and not simply a red front panel. I'd be glad to provide the enlargements. The "gold thingies" are oak leafed dags. There is some ambiguity at the point of attachment to the white that I need a better quality image to resolve. Very interesting image. Beth >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:17:21 -0600 >From: "otsisto" > >The dress the questioner presents is also under debate by many as to whether >it is a red dress with a white coat dagged at the hem and the gold thingies >are ties to hold the jacket in place. Other think that it is a whole dress >with a red front panel and red gores. and one other theory is that it is a >white dress with a red front panel with dags at the hem showing the lining >of the dress which is red. There is a fresco that shows a dancer with a >dagged hem overdress so the latter is a possibility. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 21:33:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2X0mM015959 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:33:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL2WuqA014224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:32:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL2WFx5094460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:32:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2WEPO012966; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:32:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2WAAV012908 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:32:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m123.in-tch.com [216.166.191.123]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAL2JlG03472 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:19:48 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <005601c70d16$6e806ba0$7bbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200611201902.kAKJ0Wib026391@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20061120133453.02b5d230@mail.alltel.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:40:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45626558.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:33:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: da74f12f-1160-4ea0-9eff-b98702d6679d Status: RO I don't know--the original poster just gave the link, sorry. Closeups are always cool, but don't go to too much trouble, please! ;o) --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth and Bob Matney" To: Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress > Now that is an interesting image! I assume that we are talking about the > one on the left standing in the doorway? > > I captured the image and enlarged it (with some additional image > enhancements) to see the detail better. The red was showing through the > slashes at the elbows, but the bottom clearly shows that they are two > separate garments (where the white dags flip up). I really love the > oak-leafed dags down the front of both sides of the opening. I took the > image as far as the resolution allows and would like to examine the sleeves > and neck better. > > I would like to do my own high resolution scan. What is the book that had > this illustration? > > I would be happy to send the image close-ups if needed. > > Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 21:47:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2lZvF016387 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:47:35 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL2lTuN026291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:47:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL2kuua097200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:46:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2ksdY026217; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:46:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL0uLlP026086 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:56:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m22so1015072nzf for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:56:21 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=qTjLRqrIwNLS2GNll79YfQql9W2hwyu7jTWU7Uxn3t6oQTw+H9q/f/hT3erWFW2sBb2oKEZjYAWnLeLylYFYWuQAxaHIUfJbRUGfXkk7XgvzKvEyu6neJekBfQGXldTkg11Ffr23bntvrsWJMwgp2vmJFB1tkVOa+u6mvAQfJUs= Received: by 10.65.147.1 with SMTP id z1mr9037650qbn.1164070580356; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.160.14 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:56:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:56:20 -0800 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=7% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAL0uLlP026086 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Seeking info on dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456268C2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:47:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: bfd58e49-b11c-4182-92fe-d7c3952b7095 Status: RO On 11/20/06, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > From: "Sue Clemenger" > > I am looking for any information I can get on the dress in the top picture > > on this link. Specifically has anyone ever seen any other dresses from > this > > period (approx. 1360) with this panel front style? I've found only one > other > > I believe it is Giottino, titled ³Pieta². Can anyone steer me to further > > information on this style? > > > > Here's the link: http://www.barjaveldesign.com/dresses_1360.htm I know that h-costume as discussed this very dress before. The particular question then was how to cut, and whether to line the dags. Try searching the archives. This painting is a detail of "Birth of Mary" or "Birth of the Virgin" by Giovanni di Milani, San Croce, Firenza. I'd try pawing thru volume I of Steffi Roettgen's "Italian Frescoes - The Flowering of the Rennaissance", if you have access to a copy. Ask for it for the holidays along with it's companion volume that covers the late Italian frescoes. Lovely books! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 21:49:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2n05H016448 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:49:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL2muvZ006813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:48:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL2mcN3097507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:48:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL2maob027929; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:48:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL24rI8088823 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.36]) by ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121020448.SJYU27379.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:04:48 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.36]) by ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121020447.GDQG21592.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:04:47 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061120195303.02855480@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:04:39 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200611201902.kAKJ0Wib026391@net.indra.com> References: <200611201902.kAKJ0Wib026391@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45626918.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:48:59 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8a1360c4-e6a7-4107-b511-530516c07e80 Status: RO Simone at barjaveldesign also sent me a nice high resolution detail (1.3 MB) of this dress. It was given as a 15th century. I enlarged it to the limits. I could not find any indicators that I could use to determine if it was a single layer or two. Beth >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 00:17:21 -0600 >From: "otsisto" > >Yes, there is another picture where the donor is wearing a dark brown with a >gold front panel, kneeling near a cross. Giottino "Pieta" or Pieta of San >Remigio >http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/g/p-giottin1.htm >There is a possible 3rd dress. It is from a manuscript and I no longer have >the url. The drawing is not great in that it looks as if it has a red front >panel and the rest of the dress is striped in 4 colors or the red is one of >the stripes and was drawn to fat. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 23:39:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL4dhsP019220 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:39:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL4dbYh020356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:39:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL4d74G015333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:39:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL4d7li022891; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:39:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL4d0Ir022741 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:39:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.184]) by ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121043853.VUZS23383.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:38:53 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.184]) by ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121043852.BBNI25313.ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:38:52 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061120223335.028cda10@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:36:52 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200611210232.kAL2WTR9013217@net.indra.com> References: <200611210232.kAL2WTR9013217@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Fw: [SCA-Laurels] Seeking info on dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45628309.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:39:43 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 688258fd-d946-4e0b-9720-81282002ec96 Status: RO Yes, but it got my curiosity going! Beth >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 19:40:38 -0700 >From: "Sue Clemenger" > >I don't know--the original poster just gave the link, sorry. >Closeups are always cool, but don't go to too much trouble, please! ;o) >--Sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 20 23:39:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL4dm7E019224 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:39:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL4diHk011108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:39:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL4d5fi015325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:39:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL4cu2O022757; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:38:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL4cq7d022621 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:38:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.184]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121043847.YXQL24535.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:38:47 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.184]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121043845.NWQO4441.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:38:45 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061120214801.02d0a360@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:38:40 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: RE: [h-cost] Seeking info on dress In-Reply-To: <200611210232.kAL2WTR9013217@net.indra.com> References: <200611210232.kAL2WTR9013217@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45628310.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:39:48 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a1896c59-aa97-4c5c-b447-e7a3f05bd4fc Status: RO Thanks Robin. That does help a bit. Following that, I found a slightly better image at Art Resource using Keywords: Giovanni da Milano http://www.artres.com/c/htm/CSearchZ.aspx?o=&Total=13&FP=886443&E=22SIJMYRLCPDE&SID=JMGEJNTNS8EON&Pic=7&SubE=2UNTWAGLB65A Interestingly, it was mirror imaged from that at Web Gallery of Art. The resolution is still not as good as that originally posted, however. Unfortunately, I do not have access to Storia del Costume in Italia by Rosita Levi Pizetzky. (5 volume work on Italian costume) referenced in match 3.. and it's slightly beyond my budget to buy! ILL again... Beth >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:53:51 -0600 (CST) >From: Robin Netherton > >http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/giovanni/milano/birth.html > >is attributed to a different artist, but it does seem to be the same >painting. Maybe a different version of the artist's name? > >Beth, maybe the Web Gallery of Art version will be a better scan for you >to work with. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 00:50:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL5oOQk021197 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:50:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAL5oK63029762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:50:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAL5nZu6027925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:49:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL5nSKP084625; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:49:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAL5nNbm084537 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:49:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from maryllewellyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ocDzxA8+MLO5Abz57z4Gr6LGJsqd9q0zcDUuJO9eVXbxr1h6uOeYYzQfXO+A92Pf; h=Received:Mime-Version:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [71.116.141.228] (helo=[192.168.1.100]) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1GmOVW-0007LD-JF for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:49:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <8296995c0611201618ra913de5n731557e8bb001366@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061120184850.54855.qmail@web38203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8296995c0611201243i7d02bcf6uad63889030f83578@mail.gmail.com> <010e01c70cf2$60b82bd0$080010ac@Angela> <8296995c0611201618ra913de5n731557e8bb001366@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:49:48 -0800 To: Historical Costume From: Mary Llewellyn Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: 92b557201a104aa1b8fa6533d540c94a74bf435c0eb9d47894f731f3dadfb4e7b2508f9f34c7ad276151617619fa0f6f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.116.141.228 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4562939C.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:50:23 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 7bdb9ca5-a392-49ad-818a-4390d0599a74 Status: RO [message snipped] Would it be okay to forward this message to the various Faire and SCA lists? I'm on the SCA-Caid and Company of Clothiers lists, as well as the Guild of St. Ives (Southern) list. Mary Llewellyn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 11:32:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALGWIDO003040 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:32:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kALGWEjj021544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:32:18 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kALGSqcm038032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:28:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALGSjQ6000239; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:28:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALGSZ44099810 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:28:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.129]) by ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121162829.UKJH23383.ispmxmta06-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:28:29 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.129]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061121162828.TZWJ4441.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:28:28 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061121102540.030b20d0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:28:25 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kALGSZ44099810 Subject: [h-cost] conferences X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45632A0E.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:32:18 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c75e21e8-47ee-4786-a0b8-6c36b0b213c5 Status: RO I though that these might be of interest: Textile in Context: New Research in Ancient Danish in European Textiles. International Conference January 18-19th 2007. Programme. A conference that was held last August (2006): Medieval broadcloth – Production, trade, consumption and use http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/medievaltex/ Headwear in the Middle Ages Invitation to join seminar on Frilled Edges May 13th-17th 2008: NESAT X conference will be held at the Centre for Textile Research in Copenhagen. Other notes: NESAT 9 is in preparation. No date of publication as yet. I'll keep you posted. Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 13:34:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALIYrqv007197 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:34:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kALIYnlD030561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:34:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kALIVuTI062638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:31:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALIVWpw053106; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:31:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALIUMva051239 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:30:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.c82.83bc5af (52353) for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mblk-d26 (mblk-d26.mblk.aol.com [205.188.149.18]) by ciaaol-r02.mx.aol.com (v114.2) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLR027-cc81456345ae372; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:30:07 -0500 References: <200611210232.kAL2WTRA013217@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:30:06 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200611210232.kAL2WTRA013217@net.indra.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tearoses@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 22250 Received: from 68.143.196.38 by mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.18) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:30:06 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8DBB233CE9788-908-4FD0@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 205.188.149.18 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=8% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: kyoto fashion book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456346C9.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:34:52 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 5ee146be-212b-4006-b9b7-24e8dd24fd0c Status: RO Thanks for the tip, Katy! Does anyone have this "Dress in Detail from Around the World" book? ?http://tinyurl.com/yek99j Does it cover modern dress, or historical, or what? Tea Rose Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:57:57 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" Subject: [h-cost] kyoto fashion book To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <3586f5070611201157u2c8dc361rd53f9ab053ea58ce@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Barnes and Noble has the Kyoto Fashion book (ISBN: 0760782024, Pub. Date: August 2006), the original one volume version, on sale for $19.98 (even less if you're a B&N member). http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780760782026&itm=36 Katy ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 14:35:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALJZ9qU009178 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:35:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kALJZ52h027591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:35:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kALJXTZl076949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:33:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALJXCYE029410; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:33:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALJWl28028748 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:33:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061121193235.AAY6402.fep35.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:32:35 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.246]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061121193235.IIPI18380.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:32:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c70da3$d8298ae0$f6e73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.22.0.20061121102540.030b20d0@mail.alltel.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] conferences Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:32:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.63.231.246] at Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:32:32 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456354E9.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:35:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 30d8bc7d-4e90-4ee5-ad23-c965030f134a Status: RO Hi, Thanks for this, i had no idea there were such possibilities to go to seminars about textiles in Copenhagen. Ill keep myself updated when something of my interrests comes. A shame i dont have interrests in medieval textiles or older. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth and Bob Matney" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 5:28 PM Subject: [h-cost] conferences >I though that these might be of interest: > > Textile in Context: New Research > in Ancient Danish in European Textiles. International Conference January > 18-19th 2007. Programme. > > A conference that was held last August (2006): > Medieval broadcloth - Production, trade, consumption and use > http://ctr.hum.ku.dk/conferences/medievaltex/ > > Headwear in the Middle Ages > Invitation to join > seminar on Frilled Edges > > May 13th-17th 2008: NESAT X conference will be held at the Centre for > Textile Research in Copenhagen. > > Other notes: NESAT 9 is in preparation. No date of publication as yet. > I'll keep you posted. > > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 15:01:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALK1jnf009987 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:01:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kALK1fgG030751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:01:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kALK0Qg8083113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:00:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALK0HqM063716; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:00:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALK09kr063372 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:00:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F47EAD43C for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:08:50 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <45634EF8.5090405@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:09:44 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress in Detail (was Re: kyoto fashion book) References: <200611210232.kAL2WTRA013217@net.indra.com> <8C8DBB233CE9788-908-4FD0@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8DBB233CE9788-908-4FD0@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45635B25.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:01:45 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ee9d60b0-4a7e-4916-bc20-a785ff2b6d24 Status: RO > Does anyone have this "Dress in Detail from Around the World" book? > > ?http://tinyurl.com/yek99j > > > > Does it cover modern dress, or historical, or what? > I found a review which says "in date they range from roughly the 19th century to the present day and include everything from those made from hand woven cloth to the uniforms worn by the seamen on the Hong Kong ferry." http://artantiques.allinfo-about.com/weekly/books/dress.html Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 18:05:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALN5VGP016188 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:05:31 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kALN5RLb020025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:05:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kALN45lq024963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:04:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALN3rpK092131; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:03:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep34.mail.dk (fep34.mail.dk [80.160.76.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALKviwj037562 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:58:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep45.mail.dk ([195.41.46.228]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061121192651.ZWRF14165.fep33.mail.dk@fep45.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:26:51 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.246]) by fep45.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061121192650.IHSE119.fep45.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:26:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c70da3$092a83c0$f6e73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:27:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep45.mail.dk from [80.63.231.246] at Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:26:45 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dissapointed with a book X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45638637.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:05:31 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: d17d7266-92ba-46f3-a6e5-6265dddaa2f3 Status: RO I had ordered Phillip Mansels book Dressed to Rule Royal and Court Costume from Louis XIV to Elizabeth II. I had great expectations of it, but i got very dissapointed. Very few pictures, and poor pictures also. Hope reading it wil be better. Another book wich i was very surprised about how good it was, is The Culture of Clothing, Dress and Fashion In The Ancien Regime. This book have also very few and poor pictures, but the research of how much rich and poor people spended on clothing, how much they washed and so on is very impressive and interresting reading. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 18:09:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALN90Hf016326 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:09:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kALN8uUa022469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:08:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kALN8TFK025907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:08:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALN8Otx097411; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:08:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALLvaDr010815 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 14:57:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id p46so308123nfa for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:57:34 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=saYWZxdNSsxUb78v1ZmRoKE6OWLmLrjipczU6+xqfzuVuB8411WU/2FDxniohs+dshaxBLP+x+/1M6fcrfGgp/en4/zZxH7kx5zv8Xyi31J0z/qc3C03xW+Qm5HkvTEruRmeT+PWYG7l1JAjKmk7R55igcrXCatt4Yq1udAtLVY= Received: by 10.82.105.13 with SMTP id d13mr1119703buc.1164146254222; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.184.5 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:57:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070611211357m319356bbpded212aed3eb0d91@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:57:34 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: kyoto fashion book In-Reply-To: <8C8DBB233CE9788-908-4FD0@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200611210232.kAL2WTRA013217@net.indra.com> <8C8DBB233CE9788-908-4FD0@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45638708.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:09:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 8d9b6871-d531-4437-a4b7-dac3ec011740 Status: RO I remember leafing through the book ages ago, it is ethnographic clothing if I recall correctly, organised like the books "Nineteenth Century Fashion in Detail" and "Historical Fashion in Detail." Beautiful pictures. Katy On 11/21/06, tearoses@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for the tip, Katy! > > > > Does anyone have this "Dress in Detail from Around the World" book? > > ?http://tinyurl.com/yek99j > > > > Does it cover modern dress, or historical, or what? > > > > Tea Rose > > > > > > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:57:57 -0500 > From: "Katy Bishop" > Subject: [h-cost] kyoto fashion book > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > <3586f5070611201157u2c8dc361rd53f9ab053ea58ce@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Barnes and Noble has the Kyoto Fashion book (ISBN: 0760782024, Pub. > Date: August 2006), the original one volume version, on sale for > $19.98 (even less if you're a B&N member). > > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780760782026&itm=36 > > Katy > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 18:13:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALNCwdR016451 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:12:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kALNCtdw013429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:12:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kALNCPTm026685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:12:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALNBk3o001633; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:11:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (88.d2.1343.static.theplanet.com [67.19.210.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kALNBQe4001243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:11:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Gmel9-0007z4-Ph; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:10:36 -0600 Received: from 160.36.155.233 ([160.36.155.233]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:10:35 -0500 Message-ID: <20061121181035.m65qg7gbvkl8g8gg@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:10:35 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dissapointed with a book References: <000901c70da3$092a83c0$f6e73f50@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000901c70da3$092a83c0$f6e73f50@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456387F7.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:12:58 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 4b8d2c3a-2fd8-43ec-8fd4-fc6cdb95323c Status: RO Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : *snip* > Another book wich i was very surprised about how good it was, is The > Culture of Clothing, Dress and Fashion In The Ancien Regime. This book > have also very few and poor pictures, but the research of how much rich > and poor people spended on clothing, how much they washed and so on is > very impressive and interresting reading. > Bjarne, who's the author of this second book? Do you have an ISBN for it? Thanks, Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 20:34:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAM1YpAv020571 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:34:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAM1Ylwl029174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:34:50 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAM1Xxdd057020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:33:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAM1XqVe048884; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:33:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAM1XeHa048582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:33:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAM2Ww6F002400 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:32:58 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress in Detail (was Re: kyoto fashion book) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:39:39 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200611210232.kAL2WTRA013217@net.indra.com> <8C8DBB233CE9788-908-4FD0@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> <45634EF8.5090405@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <45634EF8.5090405@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611212039.40103.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4563A937.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:34:51 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 6e40b6f6-3395-4120-9d51-2cdadc6906b1 Status: RO On Tuesday 21 November 2006 2:09 pm, Dawn wrote: > > Does anyone have this "Dress in Detail from Around the World" book? > > > > ?http://tinyurl.com/yek99j > > > > > > > > Does it cover modern dress, or historical, or what? > > I found a review which says "in date they range from roughly the 19th > century to the present day and include everything from those made from > hand woven cloth to the uniforms worn by the seamen on the Hong Kong > ferry." That's pretty accurate. I don't own it but I've looked through it in a bookstore, and it's ethnic costume, not "historical" per so. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 21 23:47:41 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAM4lf8T027846 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 23:47:41 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAM4lb7q010956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 23:47:40 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAM4kGBn090532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:46:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAM4k9O3009269; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:46:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAM4k5UW009137 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:46:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.99]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061122044600.JDVN24535.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net> for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:46:00 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.99]) by ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061122044559.XPHI21592.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:45:59 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061121224528.026a2030@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:45:55 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAM4k5UW009137 Subject: [h-cost] currently on display X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4563D669.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 21 Nov 2006 23:47:40 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: fd828bbe-e099-40d2-bac5-d190ad4e7b39 Status: RO Garments of Margaretha Franciska Lobkowicz née Dietrichstein (1597­1617) April 13th—December 31st, 2006 Main building of UPM - Museum of Decorative Arts in Prague http://www.upm.cz/index.php?language=en&page=123&year=2006&id=56&img=512 I have written to inquire about a catalog to the exhibit. Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 05:52:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMAq6wq017929 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:52:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMAq2OR000559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:52:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMApLlB052866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 03:51:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMApFne023500; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 03:51:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web23409.mail.ird.yahoo.com (web23409.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.189.94]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAMAp8Si023302 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 03:51:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from marquesate@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 29692 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Nov 2006 10:51:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=j0ZymSZ1UhExMHd05CRt4iRgSW5dt8xAbhzFuK7sfmzVQy6TMhkfAV1g7dME8SvmCD2MSqAumPIkmln6ONXumGQ3ki9sdoUb26PvBNq0bqSV/9NN0O8J1VxxNyYwYLw0nGbx7r8AvYZO5obZFLSW2qy+p9fPKGHmflzajNsX+b8= ; Message-ID: <20061122105102.29690.qmail@web23409.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Received: from [137.195.176.12] by web23409.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:51:02 GMT Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:51:02 +0000 (GMT) From: N Kipar Subject: Re: [h-cost] dissapointed with a book To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii X-DCC-Servercave-Metrics: net.indra.com 1183; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=28% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAMAp8Si023302 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45642BD2.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:52:06 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ba9d1e19-15ba-40be-b544-8f768db75d59 Status: RO Bjarne, I have to agree about Philip Mansell's book, but for different reasons. I got it out of our School of Textile library (thankfully) and could check it out before buying it - which I won't do. I am very disappointed with the text (the writing style itself), the structure, and the research. I haven't got it with me right now, but I recall a couple of incidences where he said something about certain 18th century customs that intrigued me. Went to the end notes (which are, incidentally, annoyingly organised) and read "personal conversation with XYZ". Oh, really? So, it is enough to claim that XYZ said so? I was incensed. Very disappointing. Best wishes Nicole ----- Original Message ---- From: Bjarne og Leif Drews To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Tuesday, 21 November, 2006 7:27:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] dissapointed with a book I had ordered Phillip Mansels book Dressed to Rule Royal and Court Costume from Louis XIV to Elizabeth II. I had great expectations of it, but i got very dissapointed. Very few pictures, and poor pictures also. Hope reading it wil be better. Another book wich i was very surprised about how good it was, is The Culture of Clothing, Dress and Fashion In The Ancien Regime. This book have also very few and poor pictures, but the research of how much rich and poor people spended on clothing, how much they washed and so on is very impressive and interresting reading. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 09:16:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMEGHGf008410 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:16:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMEGCJb006070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:16:17 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMEF5dP004132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:15:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMEErQZ037332; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:14:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep30.mail.dk (fep30.mail.dk [80.160.76.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMEElgk037147 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:14:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061122141437.VLDB18689.fep30.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:14:37 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.5]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061122141437.IWSK26664.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:14:37 +0100 Message-ID: <001d01c70e40$895a22b0$0543a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c70da3$092a83c0$f6e73f50@CPQ21932199711> <20061121181035.m65qg7gbvkl8g8gg@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dissapointed with a book Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:14:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.161.67.5] at Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:14:32 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45645BAC.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:16:17 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 79c9c053-3110-4ca8-b1b8-c643db582609 Status: RO Hi Susan, Its a translation to english from a french researcher, who made fantastic work about clothing and culture, the different ranks and poor people two. Daniel Roche: The Culture Of Clothing - Dress And Fashion In The Ancien Regime . Paperback Past & Present Publications. Study of dress in France in seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Taken as a whole, this book is easily the most thorough and wide ranging study of clothing and its social meaning that has been written to date................ I got it from Amazon Uk. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] dissapointed with a book > Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : > > *snip* > >> Another book wich i was very surprised about how good it was, is The >> Culture of Clothing, Dress and Fashion In The Ancien Regime. This book >> have also very few and poor pictures, but the research of how much rich >> and poor people spended on clothing, how much they washed and so on is >> very impressive and interresting reading. >> > > Bjarne, who's the author of this second book? Do you have an ISBN for it? > > Thanks, > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 14:19:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMJJl9a019313 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:19:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMJJhZR007749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:19:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMJFRNu079065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:15:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMJE87a005509; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:14:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMI3e37021192 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:04:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m7so169712nzf for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:03:31 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=cHXiq7L4vuPcpWjF2FYPSgSL+/i3V+AyCIpcdR7pyDipBdLw0uByJ5w/7+31CMysBLilIVZa4Z3PJFFEHSCguuyK2a9u6yZcXlHtlzGrlXZjCN4ZaD7ebwyABuGyiYurCWxhQZZEhY9239KV+pO3g2FYmSkEmGSl4ux/+JD9MZs= Received: by 10.65.200.14 with SMTP id c14mr12888090qbq.1164218611259; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:03:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.232.4 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:03:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8296995c0611221003l1ce856e6v9284903129f1ceee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:03:31 -0800 From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fwd: [GBACGCostumers] Stolen Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061120184850.54855.qmail@web38203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8296995c0611201243i7d02bcf6uad63889030f83578@mail.gmail.com> <010e01c70cf2$60b82bd0$080010ac@Angela> <8296995c0611201618ra913de5n731557e8bb001366@mail.gmail.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4564A2CF.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:19:47 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: f777efbd-d8e7-4f56-ad94-f93166a3eb3e Status: RO again, the more people in our costuming community know about this, the better the chances are that we get the dress back to Deborah. LynnD On 11/20/06, Mary Llewellyn wrote: > [message snipped] > > Would it be okay to forward this message to the various Faire and SCA > lists? I'm on the SCA-Caid and Company of Clothiers lists, as well > as the Guild of St. Ives (Southern) list. > > Mary Llewellyn > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 14:25:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMJPBL9019503 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:25:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMJP7Lo011053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:25:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMJK1vY080402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:20:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMJJSwj012744; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:19:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (88.d2.1343.static.theplanet.com [67.19.210.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMIOIfH046336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:24:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GmvWK-0001ZD-Sf; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:04:24 -0600 Received: from 160.36.155.233 ([160.36.155.233]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:04:24 -0500 Message-ID: <20061122120424.v35bz6jivc0gsc0w@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:04:24 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4564A413.006 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:25:11 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: cb85ee4b-72ad-40d5-a523-907e1bc6c74d Status: RO Catching up on old email > From: "otsisto" > *snip* > I have seen at least two "Italian" dresses that look as if they have > different colored gores from the rest of the dress but not in the style that > is on the Chimera site. Can you point me in the direction of those Italian Gowns? Thanks, Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 14:52:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMJqwbi020489 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:52:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMJqsS9001586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:52:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMJnWkL089387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:49:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMJn3sp051504; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:49:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMJmu8Y051221 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:49:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.180.125]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061122194847.QUFA24535.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:48:47 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.125]) by ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061122194846.FRNG21592.ispmxaamta04-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:48:46 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061122134313.033ab080@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:48:41 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] conferences In-Reply-To: <200611221907.kAMJ62Nl095559@net.indra.com> References: <200611221907.kAMJ62Nl095559@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4564AA96.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:52:58 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: ce95f442-6d18-493b-ad82-8964b232c583 Status: RO Bjarne, My interests pretty much begin with late Roman and stop with 1600 or slightly later, so that's what I look for. I see a lot of things for later (18th century is your time?) . I'll try to remember to pass them on also. I think that I just assumed that you were already more aware of them than I. Beth At 01:07 PM 11/22/2006, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:32:53 +0100 >From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > >Hi, >Thanks for this, i had no idea there were such possibilities to go to >seminars about textiles in Copenhagen. >Ill keep myself updated when something of my interrests comes. >A shame i dont have interrests in medieval textiles or older. > >Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 15:07:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMK7aLE021169 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:07:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMK7WUo026891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:07:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMK3sPM093486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:03:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMK3nM3070102; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:03:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMK3aqD069763 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:03:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.180.125]) by ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061122200321.LBUV27379.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:03:21 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.125]) by ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061122200320.NFEW4441.ispmxaamta05-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:03:20 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061122135233.033abec0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:03:16 -0600 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] shuttle X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4564AE04.005 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:07:36 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: a9adb23f-b1a2-4303-be74-55e42026a988 Status: RO Does someone have access to: Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: Excavations 1986-1992 (Hardcover) by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah W.J. McCutcheon, S. Durack (Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) Institute of Public Administration (Oct 1997) ISBN: 1872002986 It is out of print and unavailable for Interlibrary loan. I understand that a boat shuttle (weaving) was found. Could someone scan or photocopy the image and text about the shuttle for me, please? Thanks. Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 15:08:14 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMK8E0t021199 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:08:14 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMK8ABU018692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:08:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMK6Bx8094225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:06:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMK67Qf073216; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:06:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep33.mail.dk (fep33.mail.dk [80.160.76.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMK5ihA072829 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:05:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep44.mail.dk ([195.41.46.227]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061122200542.MEDY14165.fep33.mail.dk@fep44.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:05:42 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.173]) by fep44.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061122200542.JDHF11319.fep44.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:05:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c70e71$9c42b820$ad14a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200611221907.kAMJ62Nl095559@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20061122134313.033ab080@mail.alltel.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] conferences Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:05:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep44.mail.dk from [80.161.20.173] at Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:05:40 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4564AE2A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:08:13 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b9930c57-7a71-4ad8-8651-c5262db2b981 Status: RO Hi, No i must admit i had no idea about it, and am rather shocked that my Textile History Society dont make any tips about them in their magazines. They send out 4 times a year. When i worked at the Museum of Decorative Arts our boss usually gave us tips, including invitations to other events two. I remember Janet Arnold had a lecture once.......... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth and Bob Matney" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] conferences > Bjarne, > > My interests pretty much begin with late Roman and stop with 1600 or > slightly later, so that's what I look for. I see a lot of things for later > (18th century is your time?) . I'll try to remember to pass them on also. > I think that I just assumed that you were already more aware of them than > I. > > Beth > > At 01:07 PM 11/22/2006, you wrote: >>Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:32:53 +0100 >>From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >> >>Hi, >>Thanks for this, i had no idea there were such possibilities to go to >>seminars about textiles in Copenhagen. >>Ill keep myself updated when something of my interrests comes. >>A shame i dont have interrests in medieval textiles or older. >> >>Bjarne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 17:04:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMM4lS0025469 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:04:47 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMM4h0i002144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:04:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMM2hNx023799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:02:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMM2eVj098001; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:02:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMM2VNt097873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:02:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAMM2UKu029652 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:02:31 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] shuttle Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:01:24 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20061122135233.033abec0@mail.alltel.net> Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4564C97B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:04:47 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: c7fa043d-1db1-4ea0-a99c-b9cd38e1962e Status: RO > Does someone have access to: > > Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: Excavations 1986-1992 (Hardcover) > by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah W.J. McCutcheon, S. Durack > (Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) Institute of Public > Administration > (Oct 1997) ISBN: 1872002986 > > It is out of print and unavailable for Interlibrary loan. I > understand that > a boat shuttle (weaving) was found. Could someone scan or photocopy the > image and text about the shuttle for me, please? > > Thanks. > Beth Sorry, I don't have the book, but my library is pretty good about getting some fantastic stuff through ILL that other libraries can't/won't. If you would like me to try let me know (unless you are a ILL librarian yourself, which is certainly possible on this list!) This book is about to be printed (re-printed?) for Amazon.co.uk for a mere $134 (unless the Euro/Pound/Dollar do more nasty things : Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: Excavations 1986-1992 (Hardcover) by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah W.J. McCutcheon, S. Durack (Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Our Price: ?62.10 + ?1.99 sourcing fee (That's the $134) (Gleek!!!) Availability: Usually dispatched within 4 to 6 weeks. Please note that titles occasionally go out of print or publishers run out of stock. Learn more Note: due to the availability of this product, orders placed now for this item will not be dispatched in time for Christmas. See last-order dates. However, it may still be possible to buy it new and used from our third-party sellers. Dispatched from and sold by Amazon.co.uk. The book is currently owned by these libraries (don't know if they would loan it, but they DO have it: FLORIDA INT UNIV FXG IL UNIV OF CHICAGO CGU KY UNIV OF LOUISVILLE KLG NC UNIV OF N CAROLINA, CHAPEL HILL NOC PA PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIV UPM PA UNIV OF PENNSYLVANIA PAU TX TEXAS A&M UNIV TXA EU BRITISH LIBR BRI EU BRITISH LIBR UKM EU CAMBRIDGE UNIV CUD EU CARDIFF UNIV RDF EU GLASGOW UNIV LIBR QCL EU NATIONAL & UNIV LIBR OF ICELAND, THE UIY EU NATIONAL UNIV OF IRELAND MAYNOOTH EIS EU UNIV OF OXFORD EQO EU UNIV OF WALES, BANGOR EQF Record for Item: "Late Viking age and medie... I used the key word search Watterford and Scully under author. The idiots who published it initially only printed 500 copies (they are idiots when WE want the book. Otherwise they are good business people). Best thing the Authors could have done would have been to put it up on the web and ask for donations. At least the Authors and illustrators would have made something for their work. You can be sure that they practically had to pay the publisher to deign to put out their material otherwise. Regina > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 18:43:00 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMNh0XO028851 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:43:00 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAMNgr1c024583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:42:59 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAMNdDSB044168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:39:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMNd2sj097559; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:39:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.191]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAMNcxKG097502 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:39:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from katybishop64@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id p46so722565nfa for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:38:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=RxUdY9NggrDnxeM9izteImyGITAhamaJaBReXdmTCDRlu3QKIPjMe+O1Y66jx5NSUoEqVgRVynS/mwq5E3TkBZ0XwDs4L98CaZJB+W6osy3+oK98kgupf0li2rlfl34cvwPXJgt2GHZABot+OARUBLW4SPHJBj5m50gHk3OxVzs= Received: by 10.82.179.9 with SMTP id b9mr1335623buf.1164238738275; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.184.5 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:38:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3586f5070611221538y6d75e56ckb85fc11386950e2c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:38:58 -0500 From: "Katy Bishop" To: "Historical Costume" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] kyoto costume book at B&N X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4564E07E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:43:00 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 3412354e-ae46-4131-bf40-11a30de4c613 Status: RO I just got the copies of "Fashion" by the Kyoto Costume Museum, from Barnes & Noble.com, and I was surprised to find that they are really hardcover, not the not-quite-soft-cover (not sure what the binding was called) that I got when the book first came out. Katy -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 22 21:22:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN2M90X002272 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:22:09 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAN2M5OG005625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:22:09 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAN2LD8s071503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:21:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN2LAo1033574; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:21:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc3-s40.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc3-s40.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.240]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN2L5rf033455 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:21:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.92]) by bay0-omc3-s40.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:21:00 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:21:00 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 71.121.81.13 by BAY106-DAV20.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:20:54 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [71.121.81.13] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061016011327.51060.qmail@web31508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:20:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:20:55 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Nov 2006 02:21:00.0287 (UTC) FILETIME=[044D18F0:01C70EA6] X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456505CD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:22:09 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1ec6a2ce-acee-4b75-80d7-a5cda01c3954 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kAN2M90X002272 Status: RO There's a nice on-line display of Holbein's English work at http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/holbein/default.shtm . Most of the pictures of women are already well-known but some of the men (and their clothes) were new to me. There are also a number of studies of jewelry. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 23 00:28:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN5SWVW009533 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:28:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAN5SSM4024170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:28:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAN5RhiV000953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:27:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN5QAMi076917; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:27:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAN5Q5dk076783 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:26:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 18099 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Nov 2006 05:26:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=Hi06SepAnftS8Qbq+f16u734u5MGwxfCi7HoGipD/L//NqXSF28VkXxd0pualYgvBqo6FzhBPDQdC9mQyAAis60PuYqTcqrVmbjiQdXHSgf37blfKJjY6s+ejrjRzRLJLZu5j9GBz4qwj0mcx0ez2k/xrni6Byl8yDrT9puz2Kg=; X-YMail-OSG: 2bt0TbcVM1kVoICZBAUyIOS6Sh7hAhXKhpF9mWUcr9dW1SRaROJbPlHKoD0jHbjjZLxm_IjRYym7zFWwFGArcyhmIOd19Mi1e0owVy86Av805P.72L7nHmBDSHHUEdErXAxH2zwiEDKojgo- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:26:00 PST Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:26:00 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <664565.17179.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4565317C.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:28:32 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: b5f47c1f-df0d-4e8e-a1e5-1778b6dc87ad Status: RO Thank you Janet for sharing this. I see that there is a book on the collection, Holbein in England. Has anyone here seen the book, and is it worth getting for those rarely seen images, like the ones that for copyright restriction is not on the website? And looking at Amazon.com, I see the author, Susan Foister, has another book that is thicker Holbein and England (Paul Mellon Centre for Studies) Does anyone know of any details on this book? Thank you, Kimiko JAMES OGILVIE wrote: There's a nice on-line display of Holbein's English work at http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/holbein/default.shtm . Most of the pictures of women are already well-known but some of the men (and their clothes) were new to me. There are also a number of studies of jewelry. Janet --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 23 02:53:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN7rFvB000439 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:53:19 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAN7rBLv021262 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:53:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAN7pCrG022993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:51:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN7p7Mg084675; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:51:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN7p02H084499 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:51:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-ironport-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 23 Nov 2006 07:50:54 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAHbhZEXUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACBUIsBAQEJDio Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1112 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Gn9ME-000JYj-MC for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 07:50:54 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061123074557.033d2180@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 07:49:36 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit In-Reply-To: <664565.17179.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <664565.17179.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45655367.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:53:15 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 1ee241f7-4cfc-46d6-88bc-029da17f339a Status: RO At 05:26 23/11/2006, you wrote: >Thank you Janet for sharing this. > > I see that there is a book on the collection, Holbein in England. > Has anyone here seen the book, and is it worth getting for those > rarely seen images, like the ones that for copyright restriction is > not on the website? > > And looking at Amazon.com, I see the author, Susan Foister, has > another book that is thicker > Holbein and England (Paul Mellon Centre for Studies) > Does anyone know of any details on this book? > > Thank you, > > Kimiko > > >JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > There's a nice on-line display of Holbein's English work at >http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/holbein/default.shtm . >Most of the pictures of women are already well-known but some of the >men (and their clothes) were new to me. There are also a number of >studies of jewelry. The Holbein catalogue is well worth buying. The reproductions are excellent. I haven't read the text as I was too busy enjoying the pictures. I went to the exhibition with some costume minded friends a couple of weeks ago, and without dawdling, it took us 2 1/2 hours to go round. We followed it with a visit to the current Velasquez exhibition, also well worth the visit. I did not buy the full size catalogue for that, so cannot comment. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 23 13:15:02 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANIF1Vc027657 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:15:01 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kANIEvGO028335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:15:00 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kANIDs6Q033378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:13:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANIDbsc003311; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:13:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.200.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANIDIK3002992 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:13:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2006112318131301200or31ve>; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:13:13 +0000 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-Id: <2CCA844E-0E9B-4A76-BE61-6341353A726F@comcast.net> From: Lauren Walker Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:13:21 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 rep=2% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Late Viking Age book [was: shuttle} X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4565E521.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:15:01 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 37f18512-614b-4f9e-81de-1c82d2c7bc7d Status: RO Hi, I'm confused -- I looked at the amazon.co.uk listing and it reads more like they're going to get a copy out of some distant musty warehouse than like there's a reprint coming -- at least, on Amazon in the US, that's how that language about 4 to 6 weeks and a sourcing fee translates. Does anybody have any further info about a reprint? This looks like it could be a tasty book. Thanks, Lauren On Nov 22, 2006, at 5:01 PM, Wanda Pease wrote: > This book is about to be printed (re-printed?) for Amazon.co.uk for > a mere > $134 (unless the Euro/Pound/Dollar do more nasty things : > > Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: Excavations 1986-1992 > (Hardcover) > by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah W.J. McCutcheon, S. > Durack > (Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > ---- > Our Price: ?62.10 + ?1.99 sourcing fee (That's the $134) (Gleek!!!) Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 23 13:54:36 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANIsa1H028826 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:54:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kANIsWDH028782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:54:35 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kANIpSDU038488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:51:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANIp43k033042; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:51:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alnrmhc12.comcast.net (alnrmhc12.comcast.net [206.18.177.52]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANIoBhF032280 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:50:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (c-24-61-47-3.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.61.47.3]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc12) with SMTP id <20061123185005b1200mtb5he>; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:50:06 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20061122135233.033abec0@mail.alltel.net> References: <6.0.0.22.0.20061122135233.033abec0@mail.alltel.net> Message-Id: From: Lauren Walker Subject: Re: [h-cost] shuttle Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:50:13 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 rep=3% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4565EE68.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:54:35 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 94eba43e-cd90-4956-a799-3b5e7da6a641 Status: RO So I was poking around the Web looking for the book, and discovered the Ask About Ireland Virtual Museum, which has a few pieces from the Waterford Museum of Treasures: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2802 Amongst the treasures is a 12th century comb beater, and the page refers to a sword beater and pin beaters also found at the site. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2910 Those are tools for warp-weighted loom weaving, and you don't use a boat shuttle with a warp-weighted loom. (I don't know your project -- that may be exactly why you want to see the boat shuttle.) Since the warp-weighted loom continued to be used in Scandinavian countries up until the present day, that doesn't mean WWLs didn't exist alongside horizontal harness looms, of course, and the transitional period for those looms in England (I am guessing Ireland is similar in this adoption) is between the 10th and 13th centuries. Let me know if you find the boat shuttle, and when it's dated. Thanks, Lauren On Nov 22, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > Does someone have access to: > > Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: Excavations 1986-1992 > (Hardcover) > by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah W.J. McCutcheon, S. > Durack (Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) Institute of Public > Administration (Oct 1997) ISBN: 1872002986 > > It is out of print and unavailable for Interlibrary loan. I > understand that a boat shuttle (weaving) was found. Could someone > scan or photocopy the image and text about the shuttle for me, please? > > Thanks. > Beth > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 23 15:27:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANKR46n031301 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:27:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kANKQtaL013087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:27:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kANKQLio052297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:26:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANKPcST010716; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:26:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANKP5tq010182 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:25:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.245]) by ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061123202459.HXWU24535.ispmxmta05-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net> for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:24:59 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.245]) by ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061123202458.IUQA25313.ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:24:58 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061123141430.0286a990@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:24:54 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: RE: [h-cost] shuttle In-Reply-To: <200611231904.kANJ2RI5042581@net.indra.com> References: <200611231904.kANJ2RI5042581@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=5% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4566040F.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:27:04 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: 16303ab0-8666-47cc-9c5e-f184bbb8ed0d Status: RO I would much prefer to add the book to my collection of archeology reports. I ordered the book from Amazon-UK last year... and after many delays, they finally cancelled my order saying that the book was unavailable. Up until last month, there was a copy at a bookseller in Ireland.. I just could not make myself pay $600 for it! I'd quite willingly pay $134 for the book. I'm not an ILL librarian (live in rural Arkansas), but the librarian in my county is good about ordering things for me. She said that all copies listed did not circulate, so she couldn't get it... even paying an additional fee (which I frequently do). Beth At 01:04 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:01:24 -0800 >From: "Wanda Pease" > > > Does someone have access to: > > > > Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: Excavations 1986-1992 (Hardcover) > > by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah W.J. McCutcheon, S. Durack > > (Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) Institute of Public > > Administration > > (Oct 1997) ISBN: 1872002986 > > > > It is out of print and unavailable for Interlibrary loan. I > > understand that > > a boat shuttle (weaving) was found. Could someone scan or photocopy the > > image and text about the shuttle for me, please? > > > > Thanks. > > Beth > >Sorry, I don't have the book, but my library is pretty good about getting >some fantastic stuff through ILL that other libraries can't/won't. If you >would like me to try let me know (unless you are a ILL librarian yourself, >which is certainly possible on this list!) > >This book is about to be printed (re-printed?) for Amazon.co.uk for a mere >$134 (unless the Euro/Pound/Dollar do more nasty things : > >Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: Excavations 1986-1992 (Hardcover) >by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah W.J. McCutcheon, S. Durack >(Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 23 15:52:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANKq5Sk032037 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:52:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kANKq2AM000916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:52:05 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kANKnMtU055544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:49:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANKn9FR029471; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:49:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net (ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANKlqEj028384 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:48:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net ([162.40.179.245]) by ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061123204746.YNXI27379.ispmxmta09-srv.windstream.net@ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net> for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:47:46 -0600 Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.245]) by ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net with ESMTP id <20061123204745.IXOW25313.ispmxaamta08-gx.windstream.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:47:45 -0600 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20061123141628.0286d560@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:46:48 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] shuttle In-Reply-To: <200611231904.kANJ2RI5042581@net.indra.com> References: <200611231904.kANJ2RI5042581@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456609F2.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:52:05 -0500 (EST) X-UUID: bc1c6e0b-a713-462d-b15d-a55406cc526f Status: RO Yes, I'm trying to pin down the horizontal loom with more than just the manuscript illumination that is commonly shown, using the boat shuttle as an indicator. So far I've found one (modern pattern) in Novgorod archeology in the 14th C. and one was found in France at Lake Paladru http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/charavines/en/fouille.htm I finally got the report in from France and discovered that while this may be a boat shuttle (1008-1040 AD) , it is not in the modern pattern and a bit small. I was informed that one was in the Waterford report dating to the 12th/13th C. and want to see it and confirm. England is an interesting place for weaving, with the twin beam loom (Winchester) concurrent with the warp weighted loom. Beth >Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 13:50:13 -0500 >From: Lauren Walker format=flowed > >So I was poking around the Web looking for the book, and discovered >the Ask About Ireland Virtual Museum, which has a few pieces from the >Waterford Museum of Treasures: >http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2802 > >Amongst the treasures is a 12th century comb beater, and the page >refers to a sword beater and pin beaters also found at the site. >http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_narrative_page.do?page_id=2910 > >Those are tools for warp-weighted loom weaving, and you don't use a >boat shuttle with a warp-weighted loom. (I don't know your project -- >that may be exactly why you want to see the boat shuttle.) Since the >warp-weighted loom continued to be used in Scandinavian countries up >until the present day, that doesn't mean WWLs didn't exist alongside >horizontal harness looms, of course, and the transitional period for >those looms in England (I am guessing Ireland is similar in this >adoption) is between the 10th and 13th centuries. Let me know if you >find the boat shuttle, and when it's dated. > >Thanks, >Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 24 00:07:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAO57Dn4014540 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 00:07:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAO579v7026028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 00:07:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAO56aHQ017249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Nov 2006 22:06:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAO55diY005189; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 22:06:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4b.socket.net [216.106.88.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAN4qYEu052264 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:52:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A412E37475 for ; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:52:33 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:52:55 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <20061122120424.v35bz6jivc0gsc0w@www.goldsword.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9e390cb4-889c-4787-919d-345dde1b87bd X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45667DFD.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 00:07:13 -0500 (EST) Status: RO One of them was already brought forth and shot down which was the Donor in the birth of Mary fresco. the red and white outfit Though I still think the gold thingies are more of a tassel then a dag. The other one I think I did not save the url because I think it was a Salome character and I was not interested in the period at the time. It may have been dags and not gores. So my apologies for not being able to produce the picture to help in this matter. I usually save things for myself as I know that I can not teach worth anything and my organizational skills only make sense to me. De -----Original Message----- Catching up on old email > From: "otsisto" > *snip* > I have seen at least two "Italian" dresses that look as if they have > different colored gores from the rest of the dress but not in the style that > is on the Chimera site. Can you point me in the direction of those Italian Gowns? Thanks, Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 24 04:58:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAO9wXOl030224 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 04:58:33 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAO9wPJP029164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 04:58:33 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAO9vsmT042792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 02:57:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAO9ulni008881; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 02:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web26513.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web26513.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.177.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAO9hcBm099254 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 02:44:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lenastrid@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 76977 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Nov 2006 09:43:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=loeYrFVJUrvzpxM/cc4d0F2tkFIbWN55HXMTCXP+7jsYbDjQmgjeHw2SOB9hEpEy/DVH86NMZH2hvdgkmDXgS4a3ALsYo6JOaYNPzhXUWuKchOSMf0g3eWNiLoh1SC69EJqVBThXAjituAGQQ7I3PP2iiXc/sv/pSXRrO8Xi+eQ=; X-YMail-OSG: ma2z9zAVM1mMfYGQ9t.267azKwH2Baz4bMoRCYx8vgSQzG0PZZex9blMinIvMtFKT_zPREyEfZ8bjdjZ4YRjkb7e9vl3ND6.jGSqX37RBAxPjhKOIPA06Sij_bw3pVRa6zyJQ.P05kqSdJXsteUEi.lz_BcaVyhAZcxJfjKTK8cNmjdtNki5MbQTfQ-- Received: from [217.158.62.84] by web26513.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:43:28 GMT Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:43:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Lena Subject: Waterford excavation book (WAS: [h-cost] shuttle) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20061123141430.0286a990@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <895186.75814.qm@web26513.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=16% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 400307e4-60d5-42cc-9a32-90d05a7be5ba X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4566C241.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 04:58:33 -0500 (EST) Status: RO The Waterford book is _very_ rare. IIRC only 500 books were printed. $600 wouldn't be an unusual price. I don't know how many copies made it over the Atlantic, so perhaps your best bet is to contact someone at a museum or university (archaeology department) in Ireland and ask them for a photocopy of that page. /Lena --- Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > I would much prefer to add the book to my collection > of archeology reports. > I ordered the book from Amazon-UK last year... and > after many delays, they > finally cancelled my order saying that the book was > unavailable. Up until > last month, there was a copy at a bookseller in > Ireland.. I just could not > make myself pay $600 for it! I'd quite willingly pay > $134 for the book. > > I'm not an ILL librarian (live in rural Arkansas), > but the librarian in my > county is good about ordering things for me. She > said that all copies > listed did not circulate, so she couldn't get it... > even paying an > additional fee (which I frequently do). > > Beth > > At 01:04 PM 11/23/2006, you wrote: > >Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:01:24 -0800 > >From: "Wanda Pease" > > > > > Does someone have access to: > > > > > > Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: > Excavations 1986-1992 (Hardcover) > > > by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah > W.J. McCutcheon, S. Durack > > > (Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) > Institute of Public > > > Administration > > > (Oct 1997) ISBN: 1872002986 > > > > > > It is out of print and unavailable for > Interlibrary loan. I > > > understand that > > > a boat shuttle (weaving) was found. Could > someone scan or photocopy the > > > image and text about the shuttle for me, please? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Beth Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 24 05:47:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAOAlseo008165 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 05:47:54 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAOAlohe008306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 05:47:53 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAOAjbc2046726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 03:45:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAOAhYsY049161; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 03:44:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kANItGgl036528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:55:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kANItF9u001277 for ; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:55:16 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:54:07 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 In-Reply-To: <664565.17179.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: cb64c0d8-8498-434b-a927-eb7fcc2c9f0d X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4566CDD6.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 05:47:54 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Small Brag. There is a fairly large book with the exhibit, and some paintings I understood they refused to loan outside of Europe. I have that book because a friend drove from Frankfurt am Main to Brussels to get it for me! Ah, the days of "Occupied Germany" and 2 DF equaling $1.00! (Ah, the days that is, because it certainly didn't cost that when he bought it. But APO mailing rates certainly helped. Go see it if you possibly can because there are many many Holbein's, and Cranach's (surprise, surprise) in what used to be the Iron Curtain countries! Wanda > > Thank you Janet for sharing this. > > I see that there is a book on the collection, Holbein in > England. Has anyone here seen the book, and is it worth getting > for those rarely seen images, like the ones that for copyright > restriction is not on the website? > > And looking at Amazon.com, I see the author, Susan Foister, has > another book that is thicker > Holbein and England (Paul Mellon Centre for Studies) > Does anyone know of any details on this book? > > Thank you, > > Kimiko > > > JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > There's a nice on-line display of Holbein's English work at > http://www.tate.org.uk/britain/exhibitions/holbein/default.shtm . > Most of the pictures of women are already well-known but some of > the men (and their clothes) were new to me. There are also a > number of studies of jewelry. > > Janet > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 24 11:14:53 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAOGEmXO009987 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:14:49 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAOGEg37020464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:14:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAOGDM3K092539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:13:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAOGD17u056852; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:13:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (88.d2.1343.static.theplanet.com [67.19.210.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAOG4K71047701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GndXE-0006sr-Np; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 10:04:18 -0600 Received: from 65.13.105.239 ([65.13.105.239]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:04:16 -0500 Message-ID: <20061124110416.y42e0g3ulrggwgc4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:04:16 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAOG4K71047701 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45671A73.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:14:48 -0500 (EST) Status: RO Quoting otsisto : > One of them was already brought forth and shot down which was the Donor in > the birth of Mary fresco. the red and white outfit Though I still think the > gold thingies are more of a tassel then a dag. > The other one I think I did not save the url because I think it was a Salome > character and I was not interested in the period at the time. It may have > been dags and not gores. So my apologies for not being able to produce the > picture to help in this matter. I usually save things for myself as I know > that I can not teach worth anything and my organizational skills only make > sense to me. > De That's ok. I've seen a couple too -- but not the birth of Mary fresco that's been under discussion. One of this *is* a piece of a mural (and I doubt if I could find it now if I tried!) but I can't tell if the woman's dress has contrasting gores up the side, or if it's a giorna (? -- you know the overdress like you see in Ghirlandaio's paintings) that's belted around the body. The ladies are in the background and IIRC they're seated. Thanks! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Nov 24 17:14:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAOME8h1024139 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 17:14:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAOME2xe023222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 17:14:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAOMDCRv067797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:13:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAOMC9uC023658; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:12:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1b.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAOMBB2F022827 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 15:11:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 50A2536860 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:11:11 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:11:14 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20061124110416.y42e0g3ulrggwgc4@www.goldsword.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b3324094-35c5-4ca4-ab1d-aa130c3e60fb X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45676EAA.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Fri, 24 Nov 2006 17:14:08 -0500 (EST) I have seen in paintings where on one side of the gown the seam is not sewn together to expose the underskirt, sometime it appears that a purse is worn under the top skirt and the opening allows access. Mostly on "German" 1400s styles I have seen the side opening. I think that the gores of a different colour are feasible as many people of that era seemed to be frugal. Now maybe they would more likely to have done the "use every scrap" with the kid's outfits. Example of patchwork sleeves http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/Licinio1524.JPG But just observing the different styles found in Bergamo, the possibility of the different colour gores seems likely even for older women. Unfortunately there wasn't enough artist to paint every single dress of all the eras. :P De -----Original Message----- Quoting otsisto : > One of them was already brought forth and shot down which was the Donor in > the birth of Mary fresco. the red and white outfit Though I still think the > gold thingies are more of a tassel then a dag. > The other one I think I did not save the url because I think it was a Salome > character and I was not interested in the period at the time. It may have > been dags and not gores. So my apologies for not being able to produce the > picture to help in this matter. I usually save things for myself as I know > that I can not teach worth anything and my organizational skills only make > sense to me. > De That's ok. I've seen a couple too -- but not the birth of Mary fresco that's been under discussion. One of this *is* a piece of a mural (and I doubt if I could find it now if I tried!) but I can't tell if the woman's dress has contrasting gores up the side, or if it's a giorna (? -- you know the overdress like you see in Ghirlandaio's paintings) that's belted around the body. The ladies are in the background and IIRC they're seated. Thanks! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 25 04:54:05 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAP9s4it021372 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 04:54:05 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAP9rw61013695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 04:54:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAP9rS4C082165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 02:53:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAP9r2o5064023; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 02:53:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep33.mail.dk (fep33.mail.dk [80.160.76.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAP9qYVY063685 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 02:52:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061125095226.YHPU14165.fep33.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:52:26 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.205]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061125095225.KTHK1080.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:52:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c71077$6f2b74a0$cd43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:52:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.161.67.205] at Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:52:19 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] kyoto stays again X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0bcc24bb-6592-47ad-9291-42c3f7132463 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456812B7.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 04:54:04 -0500 (EST) Hi, I would like to have your oppinions about the fitting of the stays on my lady. My lady wich also sew for herself, says they fit perfect, but i am not sattisfied. When you look at the profile picture, you clearly see that the stays are two big at the tip of the breast.. I would remake it, by reducing the front piece at the curved sides at the armhole, this would push in the front a little more. Am i wrong? Please take a look its here: http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htm Many thanks for your response Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 25 08:45:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPDj3HU028346 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:45:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAPDix6w032324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:45:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAPDgN1B021140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 06:42:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPDgErq051684; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 06:42:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPCBjFN074998 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 05:11:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.140.29]) by bay0-omc1-s16.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 04:11:40 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 04:11:40 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 24.222.128.141 by BAY135-DAV19.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:11:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [24.222.128.141] X-Originating-Email: [estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com] X-Sender: estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c71077$6f2b74a0$cd43a150@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] kyoto stays again Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:11:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2006 12:11:40.0314 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD078FA0:01C7108A] X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0b842e3c-b888-4092-9fdf-2a4e97b2c71e X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456848DB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:45:03 -0500 (EST) Good Morning Bjarne! First off, yup, I agree with you, they are a bit too big around the bust. I think you could take them in along the side front curve and that would work nicely. It may also push her breasts together a bit, giving her more cleavage. I have a question though...Is she wearing them with a bra in that photo? If she is, it will throw off your fitting entirely. She should have a chemise to wear underneath, that's all, then the stays can do their own work. This may also be why she believes they fit her. Have a great day! Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:52 AM Subject: [h-cost] kyoto stays again > Hi, > I would like to have your oppinions about the fitting of the stays on my > lady. > My lady wich also sew for herself, says they fit perfect, but i am not > sattisfied. > When you look at the profile picture, you clearly see that the stays are > two big at the tip of the breast.. I would remake it, by reducing the > front piece at the curved sides at the armhole, this would push in the > front a little more. > Am i wrong? > Please take a look its here: > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htm > > Many thanks for your response > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 25 10:46:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPFkOkW032535 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:46:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAPFkKHE019557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:46:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAPFhrNq043580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:43:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPFhLDQ055740; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:43:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPFh5ts055470 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:43:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep48.mail.dk ([195.41.46.231]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061125154256.NDYS2474.fep31.mail.dk@fep48.mail.dk> for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:42:56 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.203]) by fep48.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061125154256.KXNE1080.fep48.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:42:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c710a8$61a175b0$cb43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c71077$6f2b74a0$cd43a150@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] kyoto stays again Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:42:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep48.mail.dk from [80.161.67.203] at Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:42:49 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6da4ea61-cf90-4822-9490-73803e3824ce X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4568654C.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:46:24 -0500 (EST) Hi, I think she kept her bra on, because she knew that i would post the pictures on my webpage, for modesty. She is going to wear a chemise with the dress. Thanks for your thoaghts......... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "kelly grant" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] kyoto stays again > Good Morning Bjarne! > > First off, yup, I agree with you, they are a bit too big around the bust. > I think you could take them in along the side front curve and that would > work nicely. It may also push her breasts together a bit, giving her more > cleavage. > > I have a question though...Is she wearing them with a bra in that photo? > If she is, it will throw off your fitting entirely. She should have a > chemise to wear underneath, that's all, then the stays can do their own > work. This may also be why she believes they fit her. > > Have a great day! > Kelly > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:52 AM > Subject: [h-cost] kyoto stays again > > >> Hi, >> I would like to have your oppinions about the fitting of the stays on my >> lady. >> My lady wich also sew for herself, says they fit perfect, but i am not >> sattisfied. >> When you look at the profile picture, you clearly see that the stays are >> two big at the tip of the breast.. I would remake it, by reducing the >> front piece at the curved sides at the armhole, this would push in the >> front a little more. >> Am i wrong? >> Please take a look its here: >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htm >> >> Many thanks for your response >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 25 12:17:29 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPHHOTF003002 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:17:24 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAPHHKN0010859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:17:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAPHGT3T058640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:16:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPHG59T036825; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:16:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from server022.dfw.nationwide.net (server022.dfw.nationwide.net [206.123.129.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAPHG1e5036744 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:16:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 11112 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2006 17:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO spamfilter.nationwide.net) (127.0.0.1) by server022.dfw.nationwide.net with SMTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:16:00 +0000 Received: from 67.174.246.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by spamfilter.nationwide.net with HTTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:16:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1058.67.174.246.110.1164474960.squirrel@spamfilter.nationwide.net> In-Reply-To: <000501c71077$6f2b74a0$cd43a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <000501c71077$6f2b74a0$cd43a150@CPQ21932199711> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:16:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] kyoto stays again From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=52% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 2d08b368-679d-41a1-bb45-5e622cb0987d X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 45687AA0.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:17:24 -0500 (EST) > Hi, > I would like to have your oppinions about the fitting of the stays on my > lady. > My lady wich also sew for herself, says they fit perfect, but i am not > sattisfied. > When you look at the profile picture, you clearly see that the stays are > two > big at the tip of the breast.. I would remake it, by reducing the front > piece at the curved sides at the armhole, this would push in the front a > little more. > Am i wrong? > Please take a look its here: > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/anglaise.htm Bjarne, I agree with you that the top of the corset seems too big. However, some ladies have different ideas on how tight they want their corset to fit. Perhaps she doesn't want it to be too tight? It is always hard to balance what people want and what is accurate when we sew for others. Maybe tell her what you think and ask her why she doesn't feel that it is too big in front? Good luck! The project so far looks lovely. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" "Become the change you want to see in the world." --Ghandi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 25 14:35:40 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPJZaFm006803 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:35:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAPJZW2J003880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:35:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAPJYeck079046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:34:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPJXSpS061033; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:34:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPJWOFr060092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:33:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id kAPJWGEQ025703 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:32:23 -0500 Received: from 72.13.239.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:37:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <58375.72.13.239.193.1164483445.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <001501c710a8$61a175b0$cb43a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <000501c71077$6f2b74a0$cd43a150@CPQ21932199711> <001501c710a8$61a175b0$cb43a150@CPQ21932199711> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:37:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] kyoto stays again From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d8142b42-069c-43d4-9f87-301f41b5ced4 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45689B04.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:35:36 -0500 (EST) > I think she kept her bra on, because she knew that i would post the > pictures on my webpage, for modesty. She is going to wear a chemise > with the dress. I wasn't sure if it was a bra or a camisole. She should definitely try them with a camisole or t-shirt and no bra. Then we could see what the stays actually do for her. What I see is the front edge poking out past her bustline, and that needs to be brought in. You want it to come straight back, compressing her breasts into "pleasing mounds". You do not want them pressed in from the sides. Paintings were done without a cleavage line (where the breasts actually touch), so I think it is unfashionable and undesired. Did you make them as boned panels, whipstiched at the seams? I saw a set of extant stays that had been altered by undoing the seams partway and overlapping the panels! It's not the neatest alteration, but was done. Otherwise you can take out a bone or two for a neater fix. When I would measure for stays, I would take a compressed bust measurement in order to mimic what the stays do. Very nice workmanship, and a pretty color! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 25 14:59:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPJxbgA007519 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:59:37 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAPJxXAA018948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:59:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAPJvSEP081795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:57:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPJuNkd080251; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:56:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAPJteN8079605 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:56:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep40.mail.dk ([195.41.46.140]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061125195534.PMUZ17507.fep32.mail.dk@fep40.mail.dk> for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:55:34 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.10]) by fep40.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061125195534.LAKX10241.fep40.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:55:34 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c710cb$b062f7f0$0a14a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c71077$6f2b74a0$cd43a150@CPQ21932199711><001501c710a8$61a175b0$cb43a150@CPQ21932199711> <58375.72.13.239.193.1164483445.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] kyoto stays again Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:55:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep40.mail.dk from [80.161.20.10] at Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:55:29 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 35d82672-1491-4457-9261-6e57380d16fb X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 4568A0A5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:59:37 -0500 (EST) Hi I made them in sections, so it is easy to take up the front part. I have to take up all the binding at the top though, because i made that in one piece. I want to take in a cm each side at the side because then it gets pressed in the right direction, but i will also take 2 cm away center front. That is to change the direction of the fold i have in the front, its only one piece in the front. And when i am at it, i want to change the shoulder straps two, they are a little two far back on the shoulders i think. Thanks for your notes! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] kyoto stays again >> I think she kept her bra on, because she knew that i would post the >> pictures on my webpage, for modesty. She is going to wear a chemise >> with the dress. > > I wasn't sure if it was a bra or a camisole. She should definitely > try them with a camisole or t-shirt and no bra. Then we could see > what the stays actually do for her. > > What I see is the front edge poking out past her bustline, and that > needs to be brought in. You want it to come straight back, > compressing her breasts into "pleasing mounds". You do not want them > pressed in from the sides. Paintings were done without a cleavage > line (where the breasts actually touch), so I think it is > unfashionable and undesired. > > Did you make them as boned panels, whipstiched at the seams? I saw a > set of extant stays that had been altered by undoing the seams > partway and overlapping the panels! It's not the neatest alteration, > but was done. Otherwise you can take out a bone or two for a neater > fix. > > When I would measure for stays, I would take a compressed bust > measurement in order to mimic what the stays do. > > Very nice workmanship, and a pretty color! > > -Carol > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 25 20:03:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQ13MTl017550 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:03:22 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQ13IAF016352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:03:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQ10mEP026323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:00:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQ10UYh010834; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:00:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0102.google.com [64.233.162.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQ10R86010790 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 18:00:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m7so541116nzf for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:00:27 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=KmT8FHJQa7JywL+CHbDHwxVUhZ9qDmCvhcYSYxyaNR5KqxNEB4ThZsTQTVeBWv2MuJ/kLCbIKpIUl56ayavRTs4Miwoh9rMJBgyHepwF4SrbzdLUhCWFL5ICLV5lR4Gk0ZjS+Qjb2eKRHFcK7Nj7ceFejW01MIR4oMogEhMjk+o= Received: by 10.65.237.15 with SMTP id o15mr17790037qbr.1164502826306; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.160.14 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:00:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:00:26 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=9% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Art Deco Museum in Tokyo X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 08d7adc2-3e97-49c0-bdac-23f06852206d X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4568E7D6.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:03:22 -0500 (EST) Occasionally people on this list ask about sights to see in Tokyo. Here's another in my on-going series of recommendations. Tokyo Metropolitian Teien Art Museum is a lovely Art Deco, vintage 1933 "house" built for one of the Meiji princes. The house, now a museum, runs a rotating collection of Nouveau & Deco exhibits. Right now there's a Deco jewelry exhibit. Oh, and there's a typo on the website navigation instructions, the JR station is actually Meguro on the Yamanote line. It's easy to find, it's one of the largest green spaces in downtown Tokyo. My dear fiancee is, hopefully, fetching the catalog for me this week. Will let you know... --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Raz Dan I saw an advertisement on the Yamanote line for the museum: http://www.teien-art-museum.ne.jp/exhibition/e_index.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Nov 25 21:14:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQ2E4R1019893 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:14:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQ2E0TC024902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:14:04 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQ2CaGf036517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:12:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQ2BaiW060627; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:12:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQ2ARfY059885 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:11:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.155] (pm5-155.eos.net [205.133.149.155]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id kAQ2AQul000523 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:10:26 -0500 (EST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:53:45 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200611260110.kAQ19wB4018147@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: kyoto stays again X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 25b2591e-6c28-404a-a001-4522bce3262b X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4568F868.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:14:04 -0500 (EST) Bjarne: I agree that the stays look too high in the photo you posted. Could it be a poor photo? If the lady says they fit, perhaps they really do. But that is a beautiful thing you made!!!!! And your sketches of the gown are charming. I didn't know you did such lovely sketches, you should sell those!! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 05:02:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQA27o1012512 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:02:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQA235c030614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:02:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQA16rB012984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:01:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQA0T2k065063; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:00:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQA0J1F064910 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:00:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep40.mail.dk ([195.41.46.140]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061126100014.HIZJ17507.fep32.mail.dk@fep40.mail.dk> for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:00:14 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.46]) by fep40.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061126100014.LDZQ10241.fep40.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:00:14 +0100 Message-ID: <002201c71141$b1a670d0$2ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:00:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep40.mail.dk from [80.63.231.46] at Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:00:09 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] a question about museums X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a9e5e7da-5895-4f67-914c-104ca6a29c5b X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4569661B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:02:07 -0500 (EST) Hi, I went to se the Marie Antoinette movie last week, and my eyes fell on a gentlemans suit. It was copyed from Revolution in Fashion from Kyoto. After the movie all i could think about was i want to embroider that suit two, i tryed to photograph from the book and make a pattern repeat of the embroidery, and i can, but its impossible to se how big the embroidery is. Do you think the museum would let me buy a photo of the embroidery and also meassures of the embroidery, (how wide it is)? Next i think about, maybe the museum dont have any pictures at all, maybe it was the makers of the books who owns the pictures? I was very surprised recently when i asked a museum in Gotland, Sweden about a pair of stays in their collection, i noticed it in a new swedish book. When i contakted the museum, they didnt have any pictures of it. Japan is way out of my budget to travel to just for that. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 05:09:37 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQA9a8t012781 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:09:36 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQA9Vi1021793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:09:36 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQA7scD013983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:07:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQA7iwe071198; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:07:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep33.mail.dk (fep33.mail.dk [80.160.76.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQA77L3070263 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:07:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061126100657.NNAP14165.fep33.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:06:57 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.46]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061126100657.LEBU13466.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:06:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c71142$a3162640$2ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: kyoto stays again Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:07:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.63.231.46] at Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:06:54 +0100 X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: fe730733-d79b-4313-bcbb-8798d4e223e6 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456967DB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:09:36 -0500 (EST) Hi Gail, Many thanks for your words, nice to get feed back! The lady i make it for sended me the photos, and she says it fits perfect, even that i told her i wanted to change it she said no. I have emailed her what i think is wrong with a drawing, but now i awaites her answer, she didnt answer me, seems like a buisy person, never at home. Maybe i should waite a little before i change, i still have a lot of embroidery to make, just finishing the left side of the skirt, but have to make the right side. Now i am having a meeting this afternoon with the young danish lady i am going to make the danish court dress for, why is it that orders comes in crowds? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:53 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: kyoto stays again > > Bjarne: > > I agree that the stays look too high in the photo you posted. Could it be > a > poor photo? If the lady says they fit, perhaps they really do. But that is > a > beautiful thing you made!!!!! And your sketches of the gown are charming. > I > didn't know you did such lovely sketches, you should sell those!! > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 05:44:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQAibBK014125 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:44:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQAiYGL006091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:44:37 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQAgOMK019234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:42:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQAgMUx096573; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:42:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQAgHst096452 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:42:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Deredere.Galbraith@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [62.45.122.45]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3136C319199 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:42:12 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <45696F99.80401@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:42:33 +0100 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] a question about museums References: <002201c71141$b1a670d0$2ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002201c71141$b1a670d0$2ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=19% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1f8a220b-8ae0-418a-93d3-6e94adb102f3 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 45697012.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 05:44:37 -0500 (EST) Hi, This is the website from the Kyoto Costume institute. http://www.kci.or.jp/menu-e.html They have a huge digital collection. Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I went to se the Marie Antoinette movie last week, and my eyes fell on > a gentlemans suit. It was copyed from Revolution in Fashion from Kyoto. > After the movie all i could think about was i want to embroider that > suit two, i tryed to photograph from the book and make a pattern > repeat of the embroidery, and i can, but its impossible to se how big > the embroidery is. > Do you think the museum would let me buy a photo of the embroidery and > also meassures of the embroidery, (how wide it is)? > Next i think about, maybe the museum dont have any pictures at all, > maybe it was the makers of the books who owns the pictures? > I was very surprised recently when i asked a museum in Gotland, Sweden > about a pair of stays in their collection, i noticed it in a new > swedish book. When i contakted the museum, they didnt have any > pictures of it. > Japan is way out of my budget to travel to just for that. > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 06:21:34 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQBLY6p015416 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 06:21:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQBLUS8022293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 06:21:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQBKqFe024855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 04:20:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQBKj3H023201; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 04:20:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.11.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAQBKGnR022899 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 04:20:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from naergilien@yahoo.de) Message-Id: <200611261120.kAQBKGnR022899@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 24404 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2006 11:20:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.de; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:From:To:Date:X-Mailer:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=tzBEsSfQT0C7nRms7RLdSZDSP2FCUqYMeGNhF1e0uhh9ZTaAcBxESCxjUgS1MzXAPVm7zav/8qL537dy2UnN9+QWEG+RTbFd5cPg4q9kIXmZhCz9IB1n2uoS69qL1LOrBFPAln0nB9eZeCq5F598qJvm1laTp5739nditP9pTto= ; Received: from unknown (HELO Hatchling) (naergilien@84.144.73.164 with login) by smtp009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2006 11:20:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: eZmsXx4VM1lUofaBntkav2emuhvhFmknKUg4mNLMgCZkLdkDSel463LKNqMHotHq57YW06L3ipxuBNUrAHhT_4FoFQfm4GW6G49MXpA9x4C68UCf3ZQ- From: Sabine Pothmann To: Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:15:31 +0100 X-Mailer: Vivian Mail [327.0209010] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=20% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAQBKGnR022899 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Unicorn tapestires: "A mon seul desir", the lady X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b70240c1-f9c8-4b00-9cd5-04789d5887ac X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456978BA.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 06:21:34 -0500 (EST) Hello to the list! I have some questions concerning the Lady's costume in the 'A mon seul désir" tapestry. I've found a beautiful fabric which would match the underdress perfectly. The material, being acetate is not really suitable - but the pattern and appearance, in my humble opinion, is. See for yourself: This is my fabric: http://www.costumekittens.de/uploads/forums/pb250005.jpg http://www.costumekittens.de/uploads/forums/pb250006.jpg and compare this to the patterns of the fabrics in the tapestries: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/hearingladygoldbrocadejpg and http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/smellladygoldbrocade.jpg as well as http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desiregoldbrocade.jpg - those are the brocades that can be seen in the Unicorn tapestries. Compare the shape of that 'flower' to the one in my fabric. However, I have some questions about the construction of the gown I would like to reproduce - this one here, from the "A mon seul desir"-tapestry: http://www.tchevalier.com/unicorn/tapestries/desir.html Picture of the original tapestry, bigger, more details, but slightly overexposed: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desirecostumesoriginaljpg Picture of a remake of this tapestry, so some details, like, for example the face, are more or less diifferent: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desirecostumesremake.jpg At http://www.tchevalier.com/unicorn/background/history/index.html I can read that this is obviously french fashion from c. 1457-1500. I can't imagine that the clothing depicted in those tapestries is 'just' fantasy clothing of that time. Besides, one of the tapestries shows a sideless surcoat and another shows a plain dress, and those are definitely historical dresses. On the other hand I've never seen a style like the one in the 'Mon seul désir' tapestry anywhere else (which neither means that I've seen *everything* nor that it might not have existed, this is why I'm asking about it here ;-) ) The shape of the bodice reminds me much of Eleonora Di Toledo's burial dress, but the obviously front side split skirt is a total mystery to me. That slit doesn't seem to be right at the front nor at the side, but in between. The gaze-like and relatively narrow trumpet sleeves are something else I don't "understand" or can place in any way. It must, however, be said that tapestry weavers - especially the masters, and those tapestries were without doubt woven by masters - were very well able to depict details in a very realistic way. So either their templates for the weaving had big errors or what we see there is in fact real historical fashion. Those slits appear in several of the tapestries: "Hearing" the sideless surcoat is split in the front middle: www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/hearingcostumes.jpg "Touch" has the split moved to the very side: www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/touchladycostume.jpg "Smell" again has that strange split between front and side: www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/smellcostumes.jpg "Taste" is split down the entire front of the gown: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/tasteladycostume.jpg (you can see it better here when clicking on the image there - the lacing can even be seen in that image: http://www.tchevalier.com/unicorn/tapestries/taste.html ) "Sight" seems to be the only costume without any splits: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/sightladycostume.jpg So my question would be: Does anyone have any proof for front/side splits in gowns or skirts of that time *except* of what's depicted in the Unicorn tapestries? And I don't mean 'denter front' or 'side' splits, I mean splits in between the two. *Or* could it be possible that overbodice and overskirt were made up separately and the normally front split skirt was turned to the side accidentally or intentionally...? (Just trying to take all possibilities into consideration...) Then there's this problem.... http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desirecostumesoriginaljpg shows a rather deep neckline of the red bodice, surrounded by something that suspiciously looks like a jewelled netting partlet. However, there seems to be a dress beneath it, being made of the already mentioned patterned brocade or damask. It can be seen below the split overskirt and as narrow sleeves under the gauze sleeves. If I would assume that the pattern for this underdress would be like the one of the non-split dress in the "Sight"-Tapestry: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/sightladycostume.jpg then the neckline of that underdress would be too high to fit under the red overdresses' bodice without showing. So what should I do about this? I would love to work with over- and underdress; but if I would make the neckline so deep that it fits under the red overbodice then it seems to me it would be *too* deep for that time. Next problem... The structure of the velvet (or rather, fabric) in the tapestries suspiciously looks like chenille-curtain-velvet. Some examples: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/touchladyvelvet.jpg http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/hearingladybluevelvet.jpg http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/smellservantredvelvet.jpg And just for comparison; this is an Ebay auction for such chenille velvet curtains (in German, but I guess the picture says enough): http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=180055152474 I can't help but feeling uncomfortable with that thought. On the other hand, the structure really seems to be the same. Any opinions? And here's my last probem (for the moment, lol!)... This seam decoration on the 'Desir' tapestry... http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desirecostumesremake.jpg ...how realistic is such a decoration? What I think to see there are pearls with giant cabouchons in between them. Is that realistic as a seam decoration? I would be very thankful if anyone could help me solve this costuming riddle. I've sewn a lot so far - most of which can be seen on my homepage at http://www.naergilien.info - but I'm more used to later periods, and even if my fabric may not be so historical, I would like to reproduce that gown at least in *shape* as historically correct as possible. Thanks in advance, Sabine ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 08:22:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQDMDpW021632 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:22:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQDM8bn025668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:22:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQDLAMI046231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 06:21:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQDL56f025646; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 06:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf4.socket.net (mf4b.socket.net [216.106.88.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQDL1OD025584 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 06:21:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf4.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 40459372CA for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 07:21:00 -0600 (CST) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Unicorn tapestries: "A mon seul desir", the lady Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 07:20:59 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <200611261120.kAQBKGnR022899@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Importance: Normal X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1884ebfc-0057-4323-9b92-d9d9b7ea6103 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 45699501.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:22:13 -0500 (EST) I think that the splits are actually on the sides and I have seen the side splits on some paintings but for the life of me I can not recall where. Flemish comes to mind when I see the dresses. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Gerard_David_003.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Gerard_David_006.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Hugo_van_der_Goes_001.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Dieric_Bouts_008.jpg French This is roughly the period. http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/unknown/p-unknow31.htm I think the split may have been a way to access the purse. Note on the Lady in blue the buttoned opening on the side of her dress. http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/smellcostumes.jpg If I find the paintings I will post. De -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sabine Pothmann Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:16 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Unicorn tapestires: "A mon seul desir", the lady Hello to the list! I have some questions concerning the Lady's costume in the 'A mon seul désir" tapestry. I've found a beautiful fabric which would match the underdress perfectly. The material, being acetate is not really suitable - but the pattern and appearance, in my humble opinion, is. See for yourself: This is my fabric: http://www.costumekittens.de/uploads/forums/pb250005.jpg http://www.costumekittens.de/uploads/forums/pb250006.jpg and compare this to the patterns of the fabrics in the tapestries: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/hearingladygoldbrocadejpg and http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/smellladygoldbrocade.jpg as well as http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desiregoldbrocade.jpg - those are the brocades that can be seen in the Unicorn tapestries. Compare the shape of that 'flower' to the one in my fabric. However, I have some questions about the construction of the gown I would like to reproduce - this one here, from the "A mon seul desir"-tapestry: http://www.tchevalier.com/unicorn/tapestries/desir.html Picture of the original tapestry, bigger, more details, but slightly overexposed: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desirecostumesoriginaljpg Picture of a remake of this tapestry, so some details, like, for example the face, are more or less diifferent: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desirecostumesremake.jpg At http://www.tchevalier.com/unicorn/background/history/index.html I can read that this is obviously french fashion from c. 1457-1500. I can't imagine that the clothing depicted in those tapestries is 'just' fantasy clothing of that time. Besides, one of the tapestries shows a sideless surcoat and another shows a plain dress, and those are definitely historical dresses. On the other hand I've never seen a style like the one in the 'Mon seul désir' tapestry anywhere else (which neither means that I've seen *everything* nor that it might not have existed, this is why I'm asking about it here ;-) ) The shape of the bodice reminds me much of Eleonora Di Toledo's burial dress, but the obviously front side split skirt is a total mystery to me. That slit doesn't seem to be right at the front nor at the side, but in between. The gaze-like and relatively narrow trumpet sleeves are something else I don't "understand" or can place in any way. It must, however, be said that tapestry weavers - especially the masters, and those tapestries were without doubt woven by masters - were very well able to depict details in a very realistic way. So either their templates for the weaving had big errors or what we see there is in fact real historical fashion. Those slits appear in several of the tapestries: "Hearing" the sideless surcoat is split in the front middle: www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/hearingcostumes.jpg "Touch" has the split moved to the very side: www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/touchladycostume.jpg "Smell" again has that strange split between front and side: www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/smellcostumes.jpg "Taste" is split down the entire front of the gown: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/tasteladycostume.jpg (you can see it better here when clicking on the image there - the lacing can even be seen in that image: http://www.tchevalier.com/unicorn/tapestries/taste.html ) "Sight" seems to be the only costume without any splits: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/sightladycostume.jpg So my question would be: Does anyone have any proof for front/side splits in gowns or skirts of that time *except* of what's depicted in the Unicorn tapestries? And I don't mean 'denter front' or 'side' splits, I mean splits in between the two. *Or* could it be possible that overbodice and overskirt were made up separately and the normally front split skirt was turned to the side accidentally or intentionally...? (Just trying to take all possibilities into consideration...) Then there's this problem.... http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desirecostumesoriginaljpg shows a rather deep neckline of the red bodice, surrounded by something that suspiciously looks like a jewelled netting partlet. However, there seems to be a dress beneath it, being made of the already mentioned patterned brocade or damask. It can be seen below the split overskirt and as narrow sleeves under the gauze sleeves. If I would assume that the pattern for this underdress would be like the one of the non-split dress in the "Sight"-Tapestry: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/sightladycostume.jpg then the neckline of that underdress would be too high to fit under the red overdresses' bodice without showing. So what should I do about this? I would love to work with over- and underdress; but if I would make the neckline so deep that it fits under the red overbodice then it seems to me it would be *too* deep for that time. Next problem... The structure of the velvet (or rather, fabric) in the tapestries suspiciously looks like chenille-curtain-velvet. Some examples: http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/touchladyvelvet.jpg http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/hearingladybluevelvet.jpg http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/smellservantredvelvet.jpg And just for comparison; this is an Ebay auction for such chenille velvet curtains (in German, but I guess the picture says enough): http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=180055152474 I can't help but feeling uncomfortable with that thought. On the other hand, the structure really seems to be the same. Any opinions? And here's my last probem (for the moment, lol!)... This seam decoration on the 'Desir' tapestry... http://www.naergilien.info/unicorncostumes/desirecostumesremake.jpg ...how realistic is such a decoration? What I think to see there are pearls with giant cabouchons in between them. Is that realistic as a seam decoration? I would be very thankful if anyone could help me solve this costuming riddle. I've sewn a lot so far - most of which can be seen on my homepage at http://www.naergilien.info - but I'm more used to later periods, and even if my fabric may not be so historical, I would like to reproduce that gown at least in *shape* as historically correct as possible. Thanks in advance, Sabine ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 12:37:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQHbgre031094 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:37:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQHbZKK024419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:37:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQHaTOG086802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:36:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQHZFh9061977; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:35:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQHEP4P040644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:15:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.236] (pool180-236.patriot.net [209.249.180.236]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id kAQHEFwo020501 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:14:23 -0500 In-Reply-To: <002201c71141$b1a670d0$2ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> References: <002201c71141$b1a670d0$2ee73f50@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: <3159BA94-5831-4F34-B3EA-30F18258E859@patriot.net> From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] a question about museums Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:14:14 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.733) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 rep=3% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ab6f2481-a6f9-449e-b8e9-f1d5d5155dc1 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 4569D0DF.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:37:42 -0500 (EST) It depends on whether the museum has photos or slides available of objects. Besides postcards and prints, some museums have professionally made slides of various objects. f they have them, they will sell them! :-) It's a question for the specific museum. If you wanted someone to take photos just for you, that may be a bit more difficult to arrange. -Carol On Nov 26, 2006, at 5:00 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I went to se the Marie Antoinette movie last week, and my eyes fell > on a gentlemans suit. It was copyed from Revolution in Fashion from > Kyoto. > After the movie all i could think about was i want to embroider > that suit two, i tryed to photograph from the book and make a > pattern repeat of the embroidery, and i can, but its impossible to > se how big the embroidery is. > Do you think the museum would let me buy a photo of the embroidery > and also meassures of the embroidery, (how wide it is)? > Next i think about, maybe the museum dont have any pictures at all, > maybe it was the makers of the books who owns the pictures? > I was very surprised recently when i asked a museum in Gotland, > Sweden about a pair of stays in their collection, i noticed it in a > new swedish book. When i contakted the museum, they didnt have any > pictures of it. > Japan is way out of my budget to travel to just for that. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 15:28:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQKS84i004183 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:28:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQKS3vf004055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:28:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQKMBmf020277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:22:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQKM0dn045710; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:22:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQKLqMX045533 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:21:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28867 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:07:28 -0600 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:07:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Unicorn tapestires: "A mon seul desir", the lady In-Reply-To: <200611261120.kAQBKGnR022899@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAQKLqMX045533 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a511b69a-7647-4d2d-8204-6f591714574c X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 4569F8D3.007 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:28:08 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 26 Nov 2006, Sabine Pothmann wrote: > I have some questions concerning the Lady's costume in the 'A mon seul > désir" tapestry.... Replicating these costumes is an exercise in frustration because they *do* contain many fantasy elements, and some things simply don't work out right. The basic shape is that of fashionable dress, but some of the very things you cite -- the skirt slits, the jeweled trims, the lattice-like work at the necklines, the sleeve layerings -- do not appear in images that are better grounded in realism, and as far as I can determine, are visual code for fantastical, legendary, and allegorical characters such as goddesses, saints, fairies, angels, and mythical heroines. Many of these elements appear in late-15th-c. Franco-Flemish art, sometimes in other combinations and on other garments -- but virtually always signifying non-realistic characters. The tapestry artist clearly was intending to depict the Lady as such a character; the maid's costume is far closer to real noble dress (and far easier to replicate!), though it still contains some otherworldly elements here and there. > I can't imagine that the clothing depicted in those tapestries is > 'just' fantasy clothing of that time. Besides, one of the tapestries > shows a sideless surcoat and another shows a plain dress, and those > are definitely historical dresses. The sideless surcote, which I've talked about at length here and so will not discuss in detail now, was a fashionable dress in the 14th century, and moved early in the 15th century to being a royal ceremonial costume. By the time these tapestries were made, it very likely wasn't worn in life even in those circumstances; however, artistic variations of the sideless surcote appear in art throughout the 15th century as code for "queenly figure." These later 15th century designs generally have no grounding in real fashion, and are highly inconsistent even from one to another, as each reflects the artist's own fanciful elaboration on a by-then century-old historic fashion. (I delivered this material as a paper in 1994 and frequently lecture about it; if you want more detail I can point you to archived posts at which I've expounded at length. Yes, I am aiming to publish it -- figure about 2-3 years out, as I have another paper or two to do first and I have to rework my database to add all the new surcotes I've collected in the last decade.) We've talked about the Lady & Unicorn tapestries here before. Below I'll append a few chunks from some of my earlier posts that address some of your questions. Pardon me for any repetition below of what I've just written above. --Robin >From a post of 5 Aug 2005 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Late 15th Century ornamentation and other questions. Skipping to the most pertinent question regarding the Cluny unicorn tapestries > 3. Can these be considered a reliable source or are they more the > fanciful creations of the tapestries' designer? The latter, in large part. Overall, the Lady's dresses include quite a number of elements that I've seen only in allegorical or fantasy figures in art of this period; she is essentially being represented as a goddess or otherwise other-worldly figure. The Lady's maid is dressed closer to reality in most part, though with some elements that are probably still fantasy. The headdresses in particular are not trustworthy, though there are some recongizably fashionable elements about some of them. Also, I would not take literally the heavy jeweled borders (particularly jewels on the hem), and I'm a little leery of the placement of the overdress slits. In some cases the layering is nonsensical if you compare what's visible at hem, sleeves, and neckline -- that is, to make certain of the ensembles work, you have to fake layers, which technically might have been done but most likely represents a fantasy representation (more like stage costume) rather than a reflection of actual practice. You can certainly come up with some lovely dresses based on the tapestry figures -- I've done it myself -- but it would probably take you a very long time of research (and much comparison with other Franco-Flemish art of this period) to get a sense of which elements are likely based in period practice and which ones the period viewer would have recognized as fanciful or allegorical. If you want to produce something documentably accurate as real-people wear, don't start here. If you want to produce something that embodies the period ideal of beauty and luxury, then this is a good model. > And no, I didn't know there was a fictional book based on these > tapestries until I started looking for pictures of them. By Tracy Chevalier, the same author who wrote "Girl with a Pearl Earring," which in my mind was better. For "The Lady With the Unicorn," Chevalier obviously did a lot of research into the tapestry-weaving industry, but it's clear that she doesn't have a thorough understanding of costume; her fleeting references to the characters' clothing are vague (possibly deliberately, to avoid making errors, though she still makes a few), and she completely overlooks the highly significant clothing of the figures in the tapestries, though she does dwell on the symbolic and realistic elements of the other items in the tapestries. --Robin >From a post of 6 Aug 2005 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: unicorn tapestries On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Yes, they're more fantasy than anything else, but for a wedding dress > who cares? They would all be lovely. I am not familiar with the > belgian versions seen on this site, but there are fine books available > of the French tapestries. In particular, the Cluny Museum sells a catalog about them, with large fold-out color images and lots of close-ups. It comes in an English version, too. My copy is La Dame a la Licorne, by Alain Erlande-Brandenburg (Paris: Editions de la Reunion des Musees Nationaux, 1979), ISBN 2711801187. I have used mine so much that the binding is in pieces. > That's her hair sticking out like a tassle. If I were making this (and > there's one version on the French tapestries that I think is charming, > bizarre though it is), I would use false hair the same color as my > own. To me, it looks like false hair wrapped with ribbons and sort of > draped around the had or headcovering or whatever you call it. There > doesn't seem to be any attempt to make it look like her real hair -- > there's no where for it to have come from! I've made it work both on me (with my own hair) and on a friend (with a long blonde wig). Separate the hair into two halves down the back. Cross the two tails, and wrap each with ribbon while pulling it around and up the opposite sides of the head. Where they meet, use the ribbon to tie them together and then wrap them into a single tassel. If you do this over a draped velvet headdress such as is shown, you can make it sit so that it sticks up and the loose ends of hair at the top spout like a fountain -- really bizarre but just like the picture. This was part of the show-and-tell for a dress and textiles session that covered pavilions and the Unicorn Tapestry costumes, at the Medieval Congress in 1990. To drum up a little interest, we set up a tableau display on the theme of the tapestries, though by no means an exact reproduction of any of them. My research partner Verna Rutz brought the red-and-gold pavilion she made, which is quite similar to the one in the final tapestry, and I made the costumes for the Lady (played by Emilysue Pinnell, now Reichardt) and her maid (me). The Lady's costume was mostly based on the one in A Mon Seul Desire (the pavilion tapestry) with the headdress from Hearing and the neckline from Smell, and the Maid's was mostly like the one in the Smell tapestry. Emilysue played her vielle, and she and Verna also brought two enormous stuffed toys -- a unicorn and a lion -- to add to the atmosphere. It was amusing ;-) Emilysue, I believe, still has the Lady's costume, and I still have the Maid's, which would serve quite well as a reasonable fashionable dress, though I suspect it would be rather tight on me now. I'm still pleased with the cuts, but I had to make some concessions in fabrics to achieve the "look." I used drapery brocades and moires (which were probably mostly rayons and acetates), and recycled a velvet bedspread (probably cotton, but it had a nice uniform texture and no crushing problem). They all looked exactly right and behaved surprisingly well, and I frankly don't think I could find silk in those patterns and textures anyway, so it was probably as close as I could get short of having the fabrics made specially. I did use a lot of glass jewels and brass studs instead of real jewels and gold, of course, but then the quantity of gold and jewels on the Lady's dresses probably wasn't realistic anyway (which was the point of the paper). --Robin >From a post of 2 Dec 2005 Subject: RE: [h-cost] What periods for these fabrics? > ... One or more of the unicorn tapestries has a woman wearing > what appears to be moire (the wood grain looking stuff) The moire-looking fabric there is actually watered silk, which has a puddle-ripple sort of design made from allowing water to pool on the silk; it's a rather different sort of look, and made by a different method. (When I did a display piece based on this, I actually found a damask with a woven pattern in that sort of shape; not the right texture, but the right visual effect!) It's true, though, that anyone happy enough with rayon satin probably isn't going to fuss about the shape of the pattern. But I am wondering when the wood-grain version, which is created by pressing the pattern into the surface of the fabric, was introduced. --Robin >From a post of 1 May 2006 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Lady and the Unicorn (smell) On Mon, 1 May 2006, mischele1 wrote: > This dress is caught in my mind. > Is it allogorical (sp) > http://www.musee-moyenage.fr/ang/pages/page_id18374_u1l2.htm The short answer: In all six of the tapestries, the Lady's dress carries many elements associated with allegorical and fantasy figures. The skirt slit is the obvious indicator on this one; on others, it's the heavy jeweled hem or the headdress. But also the overall level of decoration. The maid's dress is far closer to real clothing of noblewomen, but occasional has some oddnesses (mostly in headdress). The long answer was the substance of a presentation Verna Rutz and I gave on this topic at the International Medieval Congress quite some years ago. Even if my research hadn't shown me the linkages between the lady's dress and other allegorical/fantasy images, I would have found it out just from doing the reproductions (I made a version of the Lady and one of the Maid, mostly from this very tapestry). Things like layers being in a different order on the sleeves/neckline/hem... easy enough to do in a picture, but no way to do it in real life unless you fake something. If you like this style, I encourage you to look at other secular tapestries from the period. There are a number on hunting, winemaking, and other courtly pursuits that are full of nobles without allegorical significance. Look carefully, though, as often tapestries do tell tales of historical or mythological heroes and heroines, and it can be easy to confuse them. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 16:55:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQLt4Si007174 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:55:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQLswDr014826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:55:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQLpUOL047015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:51:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQLpNeG049339; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:51:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail87.messagelabs.com (mail87.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAQLpEZU049136 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 14:51:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: lisleong@k12.hi.us X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-87.messagelabs.com!1164577873!41044811!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [165.248.247.160] Received: (qmail 5016 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2006 21:51:13 -0000 Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (HELO mailrelay.k12.hi.us) (165.248.247.160) by server-9.tower-87.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 26 Nov 2006 21:51:13 -0000 Received: from Webshield (unknown [165.248.247.154]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 636E73EF6 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:51:13 -1000 (HST) Received: From webhost-1.k12.hi.us ([165.248.1.243]) by Webshield (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1164577872630; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:51:12 -1000 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:42:08 -1000 (HST) From: lisa To: Historical Costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] "Walking Art," at the Italian Cultural Institute X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1867bcba-3bd7-4065-86f8-49c47c63f847 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456A0D32.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 16:55:04 -0500 (EST) An article appeared in my local paper about this exhibit. http://tinyurl.com/ye4spw or http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061126/LIFE08/611260320/1076 Has anyone seen the exhibit and if so, how was it? lisa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 17:13:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQMDV0W007610 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:13:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAQMDSrW029981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:13:31 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAQMASV8051368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:10:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQM9IjW067332; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:09:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAQM8DBT066281 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:08:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.173.34.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.173.34]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1GoSAW-0000pX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:08:12 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <59FD64DC-A4A3-4172-9FEC-A427CAE4B241@mindspring.com> From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Walking Art," at the Italian Cultural Institute Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:08:03 -0500 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 rep=4% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1b6d0b53-94c7-4eba-9406-9211ce1118d9 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456A1188.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:13:31 -0500 (EST) Sounds interesting! But the article's comment "The kings of France adopted high heels, as did the aristocracy, which explains why poor people who couldn't afford them were said to be "down at their heels." sounds fishy to me. My understanding (gleaned where? the mists of time make source uncertain) was that people "down at the heel" walked their heels into nothing--and couldn't afford new shoes (or heels). So, Yes to poverty but No to an inability to afford high-heeled shoes to begin with.... "Round-heeled" reported a similar phenomenon but due to excessive walking on the job--i.e., street-walker. This is a similar "understanding" of mine.... Any corrections (or support) from people less dependent on fuzzy memories would be welcome! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Nov 26, 2006, at 4:42 PM, lisa wrote: > An article appeared in my local paper about this exhibit. > http://tinyurl.com/ye4spw or http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/ > pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061126/LIFE08/611260320/1076 > > Has anyone seen the exhibit and if so, how was it? > > lisa > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 21:23:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR2NN75015178 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:23:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAR2NIsY028206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:23:22 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAR2MfV2001788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:22:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR2LZHh096694; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:22:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR2KigD095997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:21:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAR2KWKZ026056; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:20:32 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Sca-Laurels" , "SCA-GARB" , "H-Costume" , Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:19:15 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 2 Very Expensive Books X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 96dae730-e88a-4521-9491-e85fb756b022 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456A4C17.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:23:22 -0500 (EST) I'm sorry that I'm shot gunning this out to each of the lists that I think might have the info, but I've deleted it and have people who are looking at me in an unloving way. There were two books that came out very recently about the final conservation of some of the smaller objects from a Scandinavian dig. Price for the pair was about $250 or so (made my eyes cross and my credit cards stay firmly in my wallet) At any rate I deleted the messages about them, then cleared out my outbox. Does this ring any bells for anyone? They are new, the only place to get them is the National Museum; they are Scandinavian (okay, they might have been Viking (job description not a people). Can Someone help Please! Saint Phlip? Wanda Pease "Everything is easy as long as someone else has to do it!" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Nov 26 21:51:18 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR2pDfr016828 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:51:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAR2pAZJ001327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:51:13 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAR2mogF005870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:48:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR2m3mu019236; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:48:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (root@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net [71.162.243.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR2kecT018189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:47:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAR2knhV032721 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:46:49 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2 Very Expensive Books Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:52:53 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611262152.53450.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAR2kecT018189 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0f8a0389-9f70-4bbe-930f-4279ea1f5018 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456A529E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:51:13 -0500 (EST) On Sunday 26 November 2006 9:19 pm, Wanda Pease wrote: > I'm sorry that I'm shot gunning this out to each of the lists that I think > might have the info, but I've deleted it and have people who are looking at > me in an unloving way. > > There were two books that came out very recently about the final > conservation of some of the smaller objects from a Scandinavian dig. Price > for the pair was about $250 or so (made my eyes cross and my credit cards > stay firmly in my wallet) At any rate I deleted the messages about them, > then cleared out my outbox. > > Does this ring any bells for anyone? They are new, the only place to get > them is the National Museum; they are Scandinavian (okay, they might have > been Viking (job description not a people). Can Someone help Please! I think so. I suspect one of the books you mean is the new book on the analysis of the Oseberg textile finds. Here's the title and publisher information on it: Osebergfunnet IV - Tekstilene (The Oseberg find  - The textiles) by Arne Emil Christensen and Margareta Nockert, Kulturhistorisk Museum (May 6th 2006), Universitetet i Oslo. 24 x 36 cm. 408pp. ISBN 82-8984-024-9 The American site that can get it for you is nordicartsbooks.com. I know that because I'd asked Fred Struthers and he had them contact me, and I posted their e-mail to me to the list. Here's their contact information: www.nordicartbooks.com Lena Torslow Hansen, Owner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ART CONSULTING: SCANDINAVIA Books on Art & Architecture 3650 Cross Creek Road Malibu, CA 90265-4946 TEL (310) 456-8762 FAX (310) 456-5714 www.nordicartbooks.com If you can get the Norwegian National Museum to sell it to you, you will get it for less than $250 (probably even with postage), because their price is actually about 1000 kroner which is approximately $170 USD, but others on this list have tried to do that and if you aren't in Norway and can't buy it in person you may have to arrange payment by bank transfer since they seem to be reluctant/unable to handle credit card payments. I'm not sure which other book you mean. Someone mentioned a book on the Waterford dig, but that book was specifically mentioned as being OUT of print and unavailable by ILL, and someone was looking for it. > Saint Phlip? Actually, Saint Jude was the patron saint of impossible causes. :-) If this isn't one of the books you had in mind, I apologize. Good luck in tracking down the information you need. -- Cathy Raymond "A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity." --Robert Frost _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 00:43:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR5hFOX027728 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:43:15 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAR5hBb0005505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:43:15 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAR5evhC031948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:40:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR5epIY061764; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:40:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAR5elYY061718 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 22:40:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id A8D6C3002B0; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 05:34:14 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] "Walking Art," at the Italian Cultural Institute Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 21:40:58 -0800 Message-ID: <004b01c711e6$9dec7c60$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <59FD64DC-A4A3-4172-9FEC-A427CAE4B241@mindspring.com> Importance: Normal X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a3d7d9f0-c642-498d-a25f-8b3bdd467772 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456A7AEF.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:43:15 -0500 (EST) Don't know about "round heeled" referring to excessive walking-- I've heard it was because a woman of easy virtue was easily pushed over, meaning she had round heels instead of square ones which would tend to keep her from tipping over. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Ruth Anne Baumgartner Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:08 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Walking Art," at the Italian Cultural Institute Sounds interesting! But the article's comment "The kings of France adopted high heels, as did the aristocracy, which explains why poor people who couldn't afford them were said to be "down at their heels." sounds fishy to me. My understanding (gleaned where? the mists of time make source uncertain) was that people "down at the heel" walked their heels into nothing--and couldn't afford new shoes (or heels). So, Yes to poverty but No to an inability to afford high-heeled shoes to begin with.... "Round-heeled" reported a similar phenomenon but due to excessive walking on the job--i.e., street-walker. This is a similar "understanding" of mine.... Any corrections (or support) from people less dependent on fuzzy memories would be welcome! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Nov 26, 2006, at 4:42 PM, lisa wrote: > An article appeared in my local paper about this exhibit. > http://tinyurl.com/ye4spw or http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/ > pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061126/LIFE08/611260320/1076 > > Has anyone seen the exhibit and if so, how was it? > > lisa > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 06:04:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARB4Hwj010361 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 06:04:21 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kARB4BIw008631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 06:04:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kARB3RiT071721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:03:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARB2q32020971; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:03:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web26506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web26506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.176.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kARB29b8020357 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 04:02:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lenastrid@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 6533 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Nov 2006 11:02:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=edZWTGG9lFUFkOe73Ze7kG+At/27huICL2Cn9xbNU/B5fIEIZ2FLb+8/gQflKwQKNeKLcqbgMj4a21M2202R5A1spPViKN8V8HU2G4FHsIQhQ8jTsxFOgh8cenkP8/fB41vuGR+1kWdStyQVQd+Au308Aq4svVIonLxT6VZ4cmQ=; X-YMail-OSG: zmoyoC4VM1l6lVxYvgtqcj3tIA57ZI7OITYJ9saoEdjDD3c.T2.AmctUsfXJA4Ybo2OWAhqZx9M5nHBuPegGw.yCnXGO.0yKmfif1Ca60OZqw0K3CGmeiH85_mSrJBNaLrL6aSUhW_0Q Received: from [217.158.62.84] by web26506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:02:03 GMT Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:02:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Lena Subject: RE: [h-cost] shuttle To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20061123141430.0286a990@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <435071.4494.qm@web26506.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 93a0a558-9bdc-4dc6-b29a-1ca8fb2f7808 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456AC62B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 06:04:17 -0500 (EST) I managed to find the Waterford excavation book at the university library, and scanned the image (p.597). Download image (387 kb) here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/1pi2y8 Figure text (p.596): fig. 16:15:9: Weaving shuttle: E257:1339:30+386: Backyard sill-b hses PS2/3:L11:L12th-E13th C: Yew. L. 195mm. Lentoid in overall shape. Max. W. 41mm tapering to 6mm at terminals. Max. Th. 20mm tapering to 5 mm at terminals. Centre hollowed out. L. 100mm x W. 25mm. One terminal has three holes bored vertically D. 2mm, 3.5mm and 5.5mm. The smallest does not perforate. The largest has an extant peg L. 27mm. The peg as a tapering hole wich corresponds to the 'horizontal' perforations on the inner faces of the terminals. At the opposing terminal this perforation has two points and has worn or been fashioned throught to the surface suggesting that whatever fixture was inserted could be easily detached at this end. One arm also has a hole through it which may function to store the artefact safely. The terminals have slight scoring evident which may be the result of binding. / Lena > > > Does someone have access to: > > > > > > Late Viking Age and Medieval Waterford: > Excavations 1986-1992 (Hardcover) > > > by Maurice F. Hurley, Orla M.B. Scully, Sarah > W.J. McCutcheon, S. Durack > > > (Illustrator), G. O'Neill (Illustrator) > Institute of Public > > > Administration > > > (Oct 1997) ISBN: 1872002986 > > > > > > It is out of print and unavailable for > Interlibrary loan. I > > > understand that > > > a boat shuttle (weaving) was found. Could > someone scan or photocopy the > > > image and text about the shuttle for me, please? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Beth Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 10:42:43 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARFghNM023843 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:42:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kARFg2AP024498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:42:43 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kARFbQEh012576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:37:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARFZvhT097612; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:36:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from bay0-omc2-s1.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc2-s1.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAREItGC005191 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:19:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.55.138.107]) by bay0-omc2-s1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 06:18:48 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 06:18:48 -0800 Message-ID: Received: from 65.55.138.123 by by133fd.bay133.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:18:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [216.160.217.110] X-Originating-Email: [wickedfrau@msn.com] X-Sender: wickedfrau@msn.com From: "Saragrace Knauf" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] a question about museums Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:18:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2006 14:18:48.0525 (UTC) FILETIME=[F49FAFD0:01C7122E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c902f6df-984c-455d-9c89-ecab6ad7e762 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456B074A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:42:43 -0500 (EST) Museums are kinda weird this way. The Phoenix Art Museum for instance has no photograph what so ever of the portrait of the dress I am recreating......you'd think they'd photograph everything just for insurance purposes. I'd contact the museum. Often, they will photograph the article if you are willing to pay for it. It can be pricey. The Norton Simon Museum offered to do this for me on a particular portrait. They wanted $100 6 years ago. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 13:40:20 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARIeKA1002556 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:40:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kARIeGgA027616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:40:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kARIZutZ048232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:36:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARILSse098787; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:22:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw2.mccc.edu (navgw2.mccc.edu [198.133.170.232]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kARHHl59019450 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:18:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw2.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2006112712041915634 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:04:19 -0500 Received: from TH103A ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARH49Or004916 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:04:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] a question about museums Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:04:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1201da7b-a4e5-4e62-aaf8-a315e4d91066 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456B3110.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:40:20 -0500 (EST) A lot of times it's pricey because they don't have a professional photographer on staff and to have one come in and do a set-up just for one object costs them a lot. Kate 609-570-3584 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:19 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] a question about museums Museums are kinda weird this way. The Phoenix Art Museum for instance has no photograph what so ever of the portrait of the dress I am recreating......you'd think they'd photograph everything just for insurance purposes. I'd contact the museum. Often, they will photograph the article if you are willing to pay for it. It can be pricey. The Norton Simon Museum offered to do this for me on a particular portrait. They wanted $100 6 years ago. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 18:54:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARNsDAB023379 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:54:13 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kARNs97X000605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:54:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kARNqhks004194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:52:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARNpAiX020526; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:52:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARNoNTV019400 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:50:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep47.mail.dk ([195.41.46.230]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061127195750.HEQM22724.fep30.mail.dk@fep47.mail.dk> for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:57:50 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.142]) by fep47.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061127195750.MJIJ13466.fep47.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:57:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c7125e$5cd99e60$8e14a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] a question about museums Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:58:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep47.mail.dk from [80.161.20.142] at Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:57:41 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 769a6ae4-ae38-4d33-a574-857aed662408 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456B7AA1.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:54:13 -0500 (EST) Hi, Yes you are right, i went to the museums website and they do have a photographer there, but i would have to pay him, and that would be expensive. Perhaps i could travel to Gotland for the same money. I got the feeling that the museum would not mind me photographing the stays. These stays are some of the most beautifull i have seen, very plain, but beautifull craftmanship. Grey linnen with blue tiny tapes at the seams. And besides this is very unusual dated from 1760-80 because it has a boatshaped neckline, with tied shoulderstraps off the shoulders. I have ben thinking i would send Ian the staymaker a copy of the photo from the book, because it is so beautifull. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Pinner" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 6:04 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] a question about museums >A lot of times it's pricey because they don't have a professional > photographer on staff and to have one come in and do a set-up just for > one object costs them a lot. > > Kate > 609-570-3584 > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 9:19 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: [h-cost] a question about museums > > Museums are kinda weird this way. The Phoenix Art Museum for instance > has > no photograph what so ever of the portrait of the dress I am > recreating......you'd think they'd photograph everything just for > insurance > purposes. > > I'd contact the museum. Often, they will photograph the article if you > are > willing to pay for it. It can be pricey. The Norton Simon Museum > offered > to do this for me on a particular portrait. They wanted $100 6 years > ago. > > > Sg > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 18:54:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARNsSZ1023388 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:54:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kARNsORL032566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:54:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kARNrb1e004377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:53:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARNr3Cu022991; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:53:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARNoNTX019400 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:50:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep30.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061127225913.OYQF22724.fep30.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:59:13 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.45]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061127225912.MOQJ26664.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:59:12 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c71277$ae5a2520$2de73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:59:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.63.231.45] at Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:59:06 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a486e65d-9941-4065-b0ca-c2795e1a070e X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456B7AB1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:54:28 -0500 (EST) Hi, I just wondered if some of you have had the same experienses. I contakted the danish handicraft guild to enquire to their kammerdug (very fine handkerchief linnen) and was quite surprised to hear from them that this no longer is made. I had baught from them about 10 years ago when i made a christening gown with bobbin lace. And i wanted more for a gentlemans shirt. The only substitute they have is a linnen with 14 threads pr. centimeter, but thats not as fine as the old kammerdug. Blast! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 19:14:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS0E8of024246 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:14:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS0E3b2009484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:14:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS056UR006283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:05:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS04Uoh037066; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:05:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARNmFoS016947 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:48:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E141B09AC for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:47:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <456B792A.1010706@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:47:54 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit References: <664565.17179.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <664565.17179.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 31c05186-305f-4e05-8b51-cd63275cc007 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456B7F4B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:14:08 -0500 (EST) Kimiko Small wrote: > Thank you Janet for sharing this. > > I see that there is a book on the collection, Holbein in England. Has anyone here seen the book, and is it worth getting for those rarely seen images, like the ones that for copyright restriction is not on the website? > I saw the exhibit this weekend, and got this book. I agree with Suzi, it has excellent images, many full-page and very clearly reproduced. It has all the images (I think) and yes, there are a bunch of sketches and some portraits not usually reproduced in other books. There's also a good selection of non-portrait works, designs for jewelry and covered cups and such. > And looking at Amazon.com, I see the author, Susan Foister, has another book that is thicker > Holbein and England (Paul Mellon Centre for Studies) > Does anyone know of any details on this book? It's like the catalogue, but I believe it covers all of Holbein, not just his years in England. It's at least two inches thick. I thought about getting it, but it was expensive and I thought it might put me over my luggage weight limit (no kidding!). Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 19:23:06 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS0MjN4024668 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:22:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS0MdAh017188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:22:45 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS0KHIp009710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:20:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS0JhoF055841; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:20:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS0J4rh055034 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:19:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 28 Nov 2006 00:18:58 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIMPa0XUSnInh2dsb2JhbACBZIsIAQEJDio Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:3230 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GoqgH-0003CV-TT for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:18:37 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061128001625.033e09a0@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:18:00 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit In-Reply-To: <456B792A.1010706@reddawn.net> References: <664565.17179.qm@web32210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <456B792A.1010706@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 990cb6f7-05d4-4850-9dba-3e31af3f67a7 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456B814F.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:22:45 -0500 (EST) At 23:47 27/11/2006, you wrote: >Kimiko Small wrote: >>Thank you Janet for sharing this. >> I see that there is a book on the collection, Holbein in >> England. Has anyone here seen the book, and is it worth getting >> for those rarely seen images, like the ones that for copyright >> restriction is not on the website? >> > >I saw the exhibit this weekend, and got this book. I agree with >Suzi, it has excellent images, many full-page and very clearly >reproduced. It has all the images (I think) and yes, there are a >bunch of sketches and some portraits not usually reproduced in other >books. There's also a good selection of non-portrait works, designs >for jewelry and covered cups and such. > >> And looking at Amazon.com, I see the author, Susan Foister, has >> another book that is thicker >> Holbein and England (Paul Mellon Centre for Studies) >> Does anyone know of any details on this book? > >It's like the catalogue, but I believe it covers all of Holbein, not >just his years in England. It's at least two inches thick. I thought >about getting it, but it was expensive and I thought it might put me >over my luggage weight limit (no kidding!). Glad you got to see the exhibit. Did you take as long as us, or were you able to drag yourself away? I just love those drawings - so much detail, and so much more "real" than the oil paintings. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 20:11:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS1BgjK025724 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:11:46 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS1BcgS021349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:11:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS1AWIW019469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:10:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS19wsf009468; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:10:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imr-m03.mx.aol.com (imr-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARKDSIl045172 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:14:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.227]) by imr-m03.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id RELAYIN4-5456b46d2364; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:13:06 -0500 Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.bf2.ace0506 (42807) for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:56:56 -0500 (EST) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:56:55 EST Subject: Re: [h-cost] kyoto stays again To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5331 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-IP: 172.18.150.227 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: c22a0039-cbcd-43e4-be4a-438660b2625c X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456B8CCB.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:11:42 -0500 (EST) In a message dated 11/25/2006 8:43:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, estela_dufrayse@hotmail.com writes: First off, yup, I agree with you, they are a bit too big around the bust. I think you could take them in along the side front curve and that would work nicely. It may also push her breasts together a bit, giving her more cleavage. I have a question though...Is she wearing them with a bra in that photo? If she is, it will throw off your fitting entirely. She should have a chemise to wear underneath, that's all, then the stays can do their own work. This may also be why she believes they fit her. ********************************************* Greetings....I hope everyone had a great holiday....those who had holidays....hell, and those who didn't! Beautiful stays, of course, Bjarne. I would take in the bust area in bits at several places, At the side AND the CF....and even somewhere in-between if possible, but that would require re-cutting the whole front after altering the pattern. And the decolletage may need to be lowered an inch or so. And a fitting sans bra may release and free her bust to fill the front of the corset more. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 20:14:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS1Ew2O025796 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:14:58 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS1EtMn031973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:14:58 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS1EOn6019981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:14:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS1D2Vt012239; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:13:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail-relay-outgoing.prod.imvu.com (prod-mail-relay-05.imvu.com [208.64.184.228]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARKMvjZ057354 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:23:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from www-data@mail-relay-outgoing.prod.imvu.com) Received: from AF001122.prod.imvu.com (AF001122.prod.imvu.com [10.5.4.98]) by mail-relay-outgoing.prod.imvu.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E562E1402C98A for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from AF001122.prod.imvu.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by AF001122.prod.imvu.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge1) with ESMTP id kARKMnBo016145 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:22:49 -0800 Received: (from www-data@localhost) by AF001122.prod.imvu.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id kARKMn9K016144; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:22:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:22:49 -0800 Message-Id: <200611272022.kARKMn9K016144@AF001122.prod.imvu.com> To: "h-costume@indra.com" From: "WildThang2005" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: osCommerce Mailer X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] WildThang2005 has invited you to FREE 3D avatar chat on IMVU X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f18c246e-a3d4-48b4-8641-5cac502ca51d X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456B8D8F.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:14:58 -0500 (EST) WildThang2005 (wildthangstreasures@yahoo.com) has sent you this invitation to chat in 3D. Hi, I just downloaded IMVU 3D messenger, the cool new instant messaging software with 3D animated avatars. Let's try it out together. Basic membership is free, and it takes about a minute to create your own custom 3D avatar. IMVU is a FREE 3D instant messaging software download. It's an easy way to chat with friends and meet new people. Build a customized, animated 3D identity from over 200,000 user created options. Decorate your Avatar home page with stickers and powerful editing tools. Have fun exploring cool 3D locations and animating your avatar! It's free, and doesn't take long to set up. Sign up now! 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You are receiving this email because someone who knows you sent you an invitation to join them on imvu.com.  If you want to prevent any future e-mail from IMVU, you can remove yourself from by pointing your web browser to http://www.imvu.com/catalog/web_nonregisteredoptout.php?code=33c1d5&email=h-costume@indra.com.  Your opt-out confirmation code is 33c1d5 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 21:20:19 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS2KEmw027288 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:20:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS2KAan019983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:20:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS2JOoT031157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:19:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS2HkFO074820; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:18:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ruby.spiritone.com (ruby.spiritone.com [216.99.193.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS0IN17054261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:18:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by ruby.spiritone.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kAS0IMDI027502 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:18:22 -0800 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] a question about museums Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:17:47 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 In-Reply-To: <000401c7125e$5cd99e60$8e14a150@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 660e0227-d833-4fdd-bd3b-41c9da8a65f3 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456B9CDB.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:20:14 -0500 (EST) Goodness Gracious but I seem to be putting out a lot of grumpy posts lately. Museums and many "collections" make the money to allow them to be open at all from public donations, a tax stipend, or ticket sales. All of these come out of the public pocket. Those who will not allow a member of that public to take their own pictures without paying the high prices of a "professional" strike me as a bit "dog in the manger" types (sorry Bjarne, it's one of the Aesop tales - I'm sure it's familiar to you with different wording). When I took pictures in the Museum of Munich of the various garments on display the only thing that they required is that I not utilize a tripod or a flash. The guard in each room asked me to demonstrate that I had the flash "off" before I could take pictures in his room. That way the pieces were not being exposed to any more light than they ever were. I had two cameras with me. One was a regular Pentax camera with 1600 ASA film, but no flash attachment (he seemed to be a bit puzzled by that, I'm not sure he'd seen a film camera before) and a 5Megabyte Sony (?). I knew how to turn the flash on and off, something that too many idiot tourists didn't, or couldn't see why THEY should be restricted by such rules. Something I doubt that any on this list would give them a hassle about. My non flash pictures with the film camera came out better than I could actually see the items, which were kept in fairly dim rooms. I know that someone is going to point out that the money the museum earns from photographic reprints is a large part of their budget. This is all very well, but the pictures and other works of art and history are not THEIRS. They are caring for them for the people. Well, I'm one of the people too! If it weren't for me and people like me the items would be used to cover cabbages to keep them from frost. Civil Servant (I'm One) does not equate to Civil Master. The things in museums are financed with your money! Therefore it is not unreasonable for you to be allowed to photograph an item very carefully so that possibly hundreds of people could share your information and not just the few that manage to come through "their museum" every year! On the other hand I have been able to make arrangements with museums and libraries in Germany and England and have them fall all over themselves to help me get exactly what I wanted and allowed me to distribute as many copies as I wanted (free, of course) as long as I mentioned them, and gave their address. Wanda > > Hi, > Yes you are right, i went to the museums website and they do have a > photographer there, but i would have to pay him, and that would be > expensive. Perhaps i could travel to Gotland for the same money. > I got the > feeling that the museum would not mind me photographing the stays. > These stays are some of the most beautifull i have seen, very plain, but > beautifull craftmanship. Grey linnen with blue tiny tapes at the > seams. And > besides this is very unusual dated from 1760-80 because it has a > boatshaped > neckline, with tied shoulderstraps off the shoulders. > I have ben thinking i would send Ian the staymaker a copy of the > photo from > the book, because it is so beautifull. > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Nov 27 22:30:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS3UBpa029630 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:30:16 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS3U7wx029568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:30:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS3TFDG043399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:29:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS3S4cV043521; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:28:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from centrmmtao05.cox.net (centrmmtao05.cox.net [70.168.83.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS3R9a4042687 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:27:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by centrmmtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20061128032710.SPQZ18269.centrmmtao05.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:27:10 -0500 Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.160.213.140]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id s3SA1V00h32JwDy0000000; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:26:13 -0500 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:26:59 -0500 Message-ID: <009f01c7129d$10911ee0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061128001625.033e09a0@suziclarke.co.uk> Thread-Index: AccSg/jyyzy44PsCQT6ywUTfYB7v0wAGKfTA X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a09d92c3-00ef-4b03-b798-035b7da59a95 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456BAD3F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:30:11 -0500 (EST) WAAAAAH!!!!! I didn't get to go:( Is the book on the collection really good? Anne -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:18 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit At 23:47 27/11/2006, you wrote: >Kimiko Small wrote: >>Thank you Janet for sharing this. >> I see that there is a book on the collection, Holbein in >> England. Has anyone here seen the book, and is it worth getting >> for those rarely seen images, like the ones that for copyright >> restriction is not on the website? >> > >I saw the exhibit this weekend, and got this book. I agree with >Suzi, it has excellent images, many full-page and very clearly >reproduced. It has all the images (I think) and yes, there are a >bunch of sketches and some portraits not usually reproduced in other >books. There's also a good selection of non-portrait works, designs >for jewelry and covered cups and such. > >> And looking at Amazon.com, I see the author, Susan Foister, has >> another book that is thicker >> Holbein and England (Paul Mellon Centre for Studies) >> Does anyone know of any details on this book? > >It's like the catalogue, but I believe it covers all of Holbein, not >just his years in England. It's at least two inches thick. I thought >about getting it, but it was expensive and I thought it might put me >over my luggage weight limit (no kidding!). Glad you got to see the exhibit. Did you take as long as us, or were you able to drag yourself away? I just love those drawings - so much detail, and so much more "real" than the oil paintings. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/555 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/555 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 00:53:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS5r816002688 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:53:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS5r42L026411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:53:08 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS5qNkC064989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:52:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS5pZbB070477; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:51:49 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAS5owIL069905 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:51:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sstormwatch@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 68931 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2006 05:50:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=mxHVMJ7bUOVQi7jUDwoBJg1NO3k3kmqqwuklZcScqTDWEDYkfq8nYtfO12O/6syLC/MQWZ9BNvcuMOtMyT6qe1L44V4zosSg0ilGDth8+Lh97rSOjqEIvqjWKuBGKoKNo1D0YoWXaoyvbxgYPoGqUcXSqQFTv2Ex04PSVql274c=; X-YMail-OSG: mS7tLHYVM1m.U4dWeNTaTdFck7Im_XIqZhKmd6xeOtge3Ze4P.9qHIx3czKRXFT28DzUL8oS2GIacfYe97x78FUabd4zS4BbvKxoZAEIcq.gAZScwcfSONscA5NUUWKuRnVl_BOxhVmHuVrlYtCw10CQdPnGcyO6RQ-- Received: from [129.8.206.204] by web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:50:52 PST Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:50:52 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000e01c71277$ae5a2520$2de73f50@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <970960.68830.qm@web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: d935bb19-b0d3-48ed-8ebc-2402000906eb X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456BCEC0.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:53:08 -0500 (EST) Hi Bjarne, I have been chatting with others on a different list on fine linen recently, so your news is rather sad to hear. We are searching for that elusive fine linen. However, there is at least one site I know of a draper who sells fine 2.8 oz (~ 79.38 grams) linen. http://wmboothdraper.com/Linen/linens_index.htm 100% white handkerchief linen, 2.8 oz., 35” wide, $14.50/yd. WLG 112 Please specify white (below) or off-white He claims it "is some of the finest commercially produced today. At 55 threads to the inch it is also tightly woven." (~ 22 threads per cm, if my math is right.) He also calls it cambric. I don't know how fine your kammerdug was, but does this come close? He does send swatches upon request, as he just sent me 4 of different types of fine linen. The linen to my hand is a bit crisp, and not as soft as other handkerchief weights I have samples of, but it feels smooth. However, I am no expert on linens, so I don't know how fine they can get. I am still learning. It may be worth a look for you. Kimiko Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, I just wondered if some of you have had the same experienses. I contakted the danish handicraft guild to enquire to their kammerdug (very fine handkerchief linnen) and was quite surprised to hear from them that this no longer is made. I had baught from them about 10 years ago when i made a christening gown with bobbin lace. And i wanted more for a gentlemans shirt. The only substitute they have is a linnen with 14 threads pr. centimeter, but thats not as fine as the old kammerdug. Blast! Bjarne --------------------------------- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 01:21:42 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS6LgMa003397 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:21:42 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS6Lcgp017605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:21:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS6L1Q8068454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:21:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS6K4qY094447; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:20:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS6JFeg093741 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:19:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m193.in-tch.com [216.166.191.193]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kAS66a724320 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:06:36 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <003a01c712b6$4b466180$c1bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <970960.68830.qm@web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:27:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 472d1610-100c-4d6c-b313-8d2c91a85468 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456BD572.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:21:42 -0500 (EST) I have the remnants (carefully hoarded) of two bolts of a cotton/linen blend that has a thread count of roughly 60/inch. Better, it's evenweave, same count in both directions. It is, too date (after almost 20 years in the SCA) the finest linen or linen approximation I have personally seen for sale. *sigh* --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen > Hi Bjarne, > > I have been chatting with others on a different list on fine linen recently, so your news is rather sad to hear. We are searching for that elusive fine linen. > > However, there is at least one site I know of a draper who sells fine 2.8 oz (~ 79.38 grams) linen. > http://wmboothdraper.com/Linen/linens_index.htm > 100% white handkerchief linen, 2.8 oz., 35" wide, $14.50/yd. > WLG 112 Please specify white (below) or off-white > > He claims it "is some of the finest commercially produced today. At 55 threads to the inch it is also tightly woven." (~ 22 threads per cm, if my math is right.) He also calls it cambric. I don't know how fine your kammerdug was, but does this come close? He does send swatches upon request, as he just sent me 4 of different types of fine linen. > > The linen to my hand is a bit crisp, and not as soft as other handkerchief weights I have samples of, but it feels smooth. However, I am no expert on linens, so I don't know how fine they can get. I am still learning. > > It may be worth a look for you. > > Kimiko > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I just wondered if some of you have had the same experienses. > I contakted the danish handicraft guild to enquire to their kammerdug (very > fine handkerchief linnen) and was quite surprised to hear from them that > this no longer is made. > I had baught from them about 10 years ago when i made a christening gown > with bobbin lace. And i wanted more for a gentlemans shirt. > The only substitute they have is a linnen with 14 threads pr. centimeter, > but thats not as fine as the old kammerdug. > Blast! > > Bjarne > > > > --------------------------------- > Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 02:43:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS7gnF6005940 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:42:53 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAS7gj0e032549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:42:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAS7fhLV079531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:41:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS7erL9059917; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:41:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAS7d67J058503 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:39:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 28 Nov 2006 07:38:59 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAJ52a0XUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACBZosIAQEJDio Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1068 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GoxYG-000Bkm-Fb for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:38:48 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061128073348.033fadd8@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:38:34 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Holbein exhibit/London shows In-Reply-To: <009f01c7129d$10911ee0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061128001625.033e09a0@suziclarke.co.uk> <009f01c7129d$10911ee0$0200a8c0@ANNESCOMPUTER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3848834a-6f33-466e-9f95-192506d3564e X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456BE875.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:42:49 -0500 (EST) At 03:26 28/11/2006, you wrote: >WAAAAAH!!!!! I didn't get to go:( > >Is the book on the collection really good? It's terrific - do you want me to get you one? I got you postcards! The book was a bit heavy to carry with me through the Velasquez exhibition we did on the same day, especially as I had one for me! You will know a lot of the pictures, but there are some that are not readily available on the Internet. If anyone is coming to London in the next few months there are several new exhibitions due - one I am particularly looking forward to is "Canaletto in England" (I think) at the Dulwich Picture Gallery. I can check the others if anyone is interested. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 07:01:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASC1mFZ014062 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:01:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASC1icJ007982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:01:48 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASC0iCA009028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:00:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASBx9r4070911; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:00:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web39612.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web39612.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.106.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kASBvcSs069581 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:58:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tania_gr17@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 23509 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2006 11:57:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=3Gc9b9j5Q1FCtrBbZNqZTPiPiQTMWGbOT1qkEX0FhDeVjIMcqoZiABSXeoqDCxuKP2kMA2dmVOxVvwBV7sbXBof6TiFJgJlKdh1x3VPwu9HivoyLal/C6v0ev9WkC8OR0sCQpiL8YdxLWBwwkGodhRqnzP5FtsiRXmcAr8Mowjo= ; Message-ID: <20061128115732.23507.qmail@web39612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [131.165.176.150] by web39612.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 03:57:32 PST Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 03:57:32 -0800 (PST) From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <970960.68830.qm@web32214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=3% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9e967ef3-4218-4edc-97f2-690511dcbb11 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456C2528.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:01:48 -0500 (EST) Bjarne. Why don't you talk to the nice woman who used to run Broderi Antik in Copenhagen. She had the most amazing "kammerdug" of which I had a meter. Still do. Afraid ot even look at it. She might be able to help you. Her email is elmbak@broderiantik.com Tania Kimiko Small wrote: Hi Bjarne, I have been chatting with others on a different list on fine linen recently, so your news is rather sad to hear. We are searching for that elusive fine linen. However, there is at least one site I know of a draper who sells fine 2.8 oz (~ 79.38 grams) linen. http://wmboothdraper.com/Linen/linens_index.htm 100% white handkerchief linen, 2.8 oz., 35” wide, $14.50/yd. WLG 112 Please specify white (below) or off-white He claims it "is some of the finest commercially produced today. At 55 threads to the inch it is also tightly woven." (~ 22 threads per cm, if my math is right.) He also calls it cambric. I don't know how fine your kammerdug was, but does this come close? He does send swatches upon request, as he just sent me 4 of different types of fine linen. The linen to my hand is a bit crisp, and not as soft as other handkerchief weights I have samples of, but it feels smooth. However, I am no expert on linens, so I don't know how fine they can get. I am still learning. It may be worth a look for you. Kimiko Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, I just wondered if some of you have had the same experienses. I contakted the danish handicraft guild to enquire to their kammerdug (very fine handkerchief linnen) and was quite surprised to hear from them that this no longer is made. I had baught from them about 10 years ago when i made a christening gown with bobbin lace. And i wanted more for a gentlemans shirt. The only substitute they have is a linnen with 14 threads pr. centimeter, but thats not as fine as the old kammerdug. Blast! Bjarne --------------------------------- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 08:49:32 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASDnRl7017788 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:49:32 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASDnNHS017289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:49:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASDmeWd025614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:48:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASDm4cs077061; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:48:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASDkkOb075494 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:47:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id 6.535.b1f0d17 (32914) for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:46:35 -0500 (EST) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <535.b1f0d17.329d97b9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:46:33 EST To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10500 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] question on velvets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 53bca7ad-6143-462e-baef-2e67046e5a48 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456C3E64.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:49:27 -0500 (EST) I vaguely remember somebody ages ago mentioning that they had a supplier of linen velvets (and other materials). Am I right, or am I imagining things, and if so can whoever it was let me know, please? Thanks loads, Debbie. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 09:45:17 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASEjH0m020137 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:45:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASEjBUW011128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:45:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASEiJGP039214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:44:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASEhkdX038452; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:44:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com [216.252.100.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kASEbqSV031433 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:38:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from heirloomsew@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 56933 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2006 14:37:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=1QQg9iAPaqgb5IV2sVJvWxs/l5qiCPm/W9vElNhysU2GeVlc9gQ4LOsVFqEsms/WqiVo4PVR9jsg7ZOjb4ybbGpqZUtWIfsrFOdti/XUlkMjSjaHwbvRHWft622eMBdjWTJWF01UmN9Mzg2+KEaANaXFhb/ESbfM/GlPOcMRMr4= ; Message-ID: <20061128143747.56931.qmail@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.149.97.50] by web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:37:47 PST Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: Frances Webb Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: bd036381-34d4-4d00-96ce-3c88e968b957 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456C4B77.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:45:17 -0500 (EST) Dear All, I have purchased fine Ulster Linen for drawn thread work from Wendy Schoen, who teaches hand embroidery and designs patterns http://www.wendyschoendesign.com. Under "Fabric and Trims," about 2/3 down, she has several grades for sale: Ulster 1000C Linen ($26 / yard) Ulster 1200 Cambric Handkerchief Linen ($42 / yard) Ulster 1300 Cambric Handkerchief Linen ($54 / yard) Ulster 14HC Cambric Handkerchief Linen ($52 / yard) Ulster 3126 Cambric Handkerchief Linen ($22 / yard) At the very bottom of the page is her contact information. If you have any questions, I'm sure she or her assistant, Jane Briscoe, would be happy to try to answer them. She is located near New Orleans; I don't know if she ships outside the USA. My best, Frances in Virginia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 12:02:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASH277C026027 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:02:07 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASH23kM001932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:02:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASH0nlB064148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:00:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASH08qq010808; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:00:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASGo3k1098137 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:50:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i7so586131wra for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:50:03 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=sJpwym8kV87nqKikWDtXbu6WNzX3JfNmwweY5QXB3FWamhhWy7XrMJ27m55TU9voxlaiDezlst7nUy/SMgaZi68TMGmAYFn/LJhmfKWeIloSy0RgEHr2ekXpoScLYAjE2iDc6Ewm+kJCzYePUZgiQjTVpAs2UniCnZuL3FTiQZY= Received: by 10.78.172.20 with SMTP id u20mr1143621hue.1164732601584; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:50:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.13.5 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:50:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:50:01 -0500 From: Irmgart To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - sources for plus size maternity clothes In-Reply-To: <20061101165419.82063.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061101165419.82063.qmail@web35611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 264ac508-6e6b-498e-b1c1-b30431b8b07b X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456C6B8B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:02:07 -0500 (EST) just found this today: http://jakeandme.stores.yahoo.net/maternitypants.html On 11/1/06, Kahlara wrote: > I'm sure the topic is a giveaway. :-) > > I am stumped as to where to find a good source of plus size maternity clothes including underthings. The maternity shops I have been to have virtually nonexistent plus size departments and the online sources are incredibly expensive! (hard to justify that sort of money for something that is only going to worn a short time). Not to mention I'm not particularly fond of most of the styles I have seen. The 'Big 3' have about 2 pages each of maternity patterns, and even the fall book styles look like summer clothes. > > I did find a few things on eBay that are cute, but the pants are too short. (I have a 34" inseam) Anyone know where I can find nice maternity clothes in the size 20 - 22 range - and that aren't styled for the under 30 crowd? > > Thanks, > Annette (de-lurking before my regular clothes no longer fit) > > > --------------------------------- > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 12:34:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASHYM4m027532 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:34:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASHYIvD008947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:34:21 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASHWD2b068997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:32:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASHVcMN049824; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:32:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASHJ5W8034514 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:20:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEEBB0B41 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:20:19 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <456C61C9.2010403@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:20:25 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen References: <20061128143747.56931.qmail@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20061128143747.56931.qmail@web90414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 82954381-3b62-4157-b13f-ce2e9d9c1b54 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456C731A.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:34:22 -0500 (EST) Speaking of linen, I just got this email today: "You might like to take a look at our new website: - www.belfasttheatricallinens.com where you will find a small selection of the linens we offer. Most of our products are available from stock and can be despatched on the same day. In the meantime if you have any linen requirements please do not hesitate to contact me or alternatively I would be pleased to send you a sample book showing our complete collection of linens." I don't know anything about this company, and they seem to be using "linen" in a broad sense to mean 'fabric', but the site might be helpful to some of you searching for specific materials. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 12:56:47 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASHuh5q028687 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:56:43 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASHudmg025767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:56:42 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASHrPI4072675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:53:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASHqmJr076164; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:53:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASHq5Ht075174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:52:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:26917 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1Gp77l-0006GC-6G for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:52:05 -0600 Message-ID: <037c01c71315$e7f85100$eb00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <535.b1f0d17.329d97b9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] question on velvets Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:51:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f75a231f-ec06-4432-91e5-8f5ec4554923 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456C7857.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:56:43 -0500 (EST) I see linen velvet pretty regularly on ebay--it looks quite lovely. Prices range from $5/yd to more like $50 or $100, with the heavily striated stuff that historical people like less going for more. As a generality, expect to pay ~$15-$25/yd if you're willing to wait a few months whilst trolling. I just did a quick search and got 27 hits, ~20 of which were for fabric. Mind you, some of the linen velvets contain very little actual linen--apparently it's like 'silk velvet'--so it's worth checking, though the sellers often just don't know. I have seen some in the past that at least claimed to be 100%. I've been meaning to get some for a while now, but always seem to spend the money elsewhere first--if you get some, let us know what you think of it! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 17:57:01 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASMutjc009423 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:56:59 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASMupUV022466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:56:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASMsL0K063590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:54:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASMrc0u058881; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:53:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep32.mail.dk (fep32.mail.dk [80.160.76.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASD1gbW031919 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:03:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep42.mail.dk ([195.41.46.225]) by fep32.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061128130137.WSPN26049.fep32.mail.dk@fep42.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:01:37 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.63.231.45]) by fep42.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061128130137.MWPS18380.fep42.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:01:37 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c712ed$644cc390$2de73f50@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20061128115732.23507.qmail@web39612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:01:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep42.mail.dk from [80.63.231.45] at Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:01:35 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 6f8c590d-e1f1-43a7-ba34-ffd5b2bb019d X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456CBEB3.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:56:55 -0500 (EST) Hej Tanya, Oh yes that must be the one i wans thinking about, i just asked her by mail about where she got it, or if she have more of it left. What a shame she closed the shop. Thanks........ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tania Gruning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen > Bjarne. > > Why don't you talk to the nice woman who used to run Broderi Antik in > Copenhagen. > She had the most amazing "kammerdug" of which I had a meter. Still do. > Afraid ot even look at it. She might be able to help you. > Her email is elmbak@broderiantik.com > > > Tania > > Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi Bjarne, > > I have been chatting with others on a different list on fine linen > recently, so your news is rather sad to hear. We are searching for that > elusive fine linen. > > However, there is at least one site I know of a draper who sells fine 2.8 > oz (~ 79.38 grams) linen. > http://wmboothdraper.com/Linen/linens_index.htm > 100% white handkerchief linen, 2.8 oz., 35" wide, $14.50/yd. > WLG 112 Please specify white (below) or off-white > > He claims it "is some of the finest commercially produced today. At 55 > threads to the inch it is also tightly woven." (~ 22 threads per cm, if my > math is right.) He also calls it cambric. I don't know how fine your > kammerdug was, but does this come close? He does send swatches upon > request, as he just sent me 4 of different types of fine linen. > > The linen to my hand is a bit crisp, and not as soft as other handkerchief > weights I have samples of, but it feels smooth. However, I am no expert on > linens, so I don't know how fine they can get. I am still learning. > > It may be worth a look for you. > > Kimiko > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I just wondered if some of you have had the same experienses. > I contakted the danish handicraft guild to enquire to their kammerdug > (very > fine handkerchief linnen) and was quite surprised to hear from them that > this no longer is made. > I had baught from them about 10 years ago when i made a christening gown > with bobbin lace. And i wanted more for a gentlemans shirt. > The only substitute they have is a linnen with 14 threads pr. centimeter, > but thats not as fine as the old kammerdug. > Blast! > > Bjarne > > > > --------------------------------- > Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and > get things done faster. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > --------------------------------- > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 17:59:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASMxKbI009519 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:59:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASMxGeS017352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:59:19 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASMuxkl064144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:56:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASMuh5v062623; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:56:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASDxxFN089169 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:00:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m113.in-tch.com [216.166.191.113]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kASDlU718439 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:47:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <001601c712f6$ae2d2f00$71bfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <535.b1f0d17.329d97b9@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] question on velvets Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:08:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 804e817d-34c6-4e03-a1b1-ccf44220f5af X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456CBF44.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:59:20 -0500 (EST) I've got a little, tiny sample of it, but it came as part of a class kit for an online class that Drea taught through Penny's Costume Classroom several years ago.... It looks like a midpoint between cotton velveteen and cotton upholstery velvet.... --Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] question on velvets > I vaguely remember somebody ages ago mentioning that they had a supplier of > linen velvets (and other materials). > > Am I right, or am I imagining things, and if so can whoever it was let me > know, please? > > Thanks loads, > > Debbie. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 18:02:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASN2Chj009623 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:02:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASN26RQ027360 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:02:11 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASN0ED2064852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:00:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASN0730066649; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:00:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web39614.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web39614.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.106.45]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kASMxwB6066327 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:00:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from tania_gr17@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 37446 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2006 22:59:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gS1gr4EAhuwQM6D94LH0bq62/UtjEd19QffELGT7+UB3RhgyoO+weVJTzKtzzDSlDqwz5fKB3wsVr5a6XfZq3Ne398t3N4/6fD4Rpeisrf3MaLFNuFzMRMkJF9uJpAMY0/8IYmlfqI3II521nLNP1CUksTiOtN1rp99zNrowXkc= ; Message-ID: <20061128225951.37444.qmail@web39614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.79.63.35] by web39614.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:59:51 PST Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:59:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tania Gruning Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000401c712ed$644cc390$2de73f50@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=17% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9d40ae26-1456-47a5-8daa-913774af51de X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456CBFEE.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:02:12 -0500 (EST) Yes it is. She had some gorgous silk embroidery floss and that kammerdug. I really would like some more, but at 300-400 (cannot remember the exact price)kr a meter it is very expensive, but ohh so luscious. Tania Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hej Tanya, Oh yes that must be the one i wans thinking about, i just asked her by mail about where she got it, or if she have more of it left. What a shame she closed the shop. Thanks........ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tania Gruning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen > Bjarne. > > Why don't you talk to the nice woman who used to run Broderi Antik in > Copenhagen. > She had the most amazing "kammerdug" of which I had a meter. Still do. > Afraid ot even look at it. She might be able to help you. > Her email is elmbak@broderiantik.com > > > Tania > > Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi Bjarne, > > I have been chatting with others on a different list on fine linen > recently, so your news is rather sad to hear. We are searching for that > elusive fine linen. > > However, there is at least one site I know of a draper who sells fine 2.8 > oz (~ 79.38 grams) linen. > http://wmboothdraper.com/Linen/linens_index.htm > 100% white handkerchief linen, 2.8 oz., 35" wide, $14.50/yd. > WLG 112 Please specify white (below) or off-white > > He claims it "is some of the finest commercially produced today. At 55 > threads to the inch it is also tightly woven." (~ 22 threads per cm, if my > math is right.) He also calls it cambric. I don't know how fine your > kammerdug was, but does this come close? He does send swatches upon > request, as he just sent me 4 of different types of fine linen. > > The linen to my hand is a bit crisp, and not as soft as other handkerchief > weights I have samples of, but it feels smooth. However, I am no expert on > linens, so I don't know how fine they can get. I am still learning. > > It may be worth a look for you. > > Kimiko > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I just wondered if some of you have had the same experienses. > I contakted the danish handicraft guild to enquire to their kammerdug > (very > fine handkerchief linnen) and was quite surprised to hear from them that > this no longer is made. > I had baught from them about 10 years ago when i made a christening gown > with bobbin lace. And i wanted more for a gentlemans shirt. > The only substitute they have is a linnen with 14 threads pr. centimeter, > but thats not as fine as the old kammerdug. > Blast! > > Bjarne > > > > --------------------------------- > Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and > get things done faster. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > --------------------------------- > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 18:12:52 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNCqnc010050 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:12:52 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASNCnT1006440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:12:52 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASNB7Ww067276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:11:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNB3M2080679; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:11:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASHWIgd050533 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B0DB0B41 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:32:05 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <456C729A.8020500@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:32:10 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holiday Gift Exchange References: <53e.897821e.32558b79@aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061004231656.0322be00@suziclarke.co.uk> <452435C4.6010202@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <452435C4.6010202@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 96d5ea24-4143-4847-942f-731cc2e6827e X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456CC271.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:12:52 -0500 (EST) Good morning, I just wanted to remind folks who are participating that your mailing deadline is December 8th. That's 10 days from now. :) If you've lost your giftee's address, please email me privately. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 18:13:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNDKgl010078 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:13:20 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASNDHjg003422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:13:20 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASN7jHI066457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:07:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASN7gtn076429; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:07:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASG6f8f039827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:07:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from gcshc-h-costume@gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp4oQ-0005oO-Ki for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:23:58 +0100 Received: from rrcs-72-43-68-175.nys.biz.rr.com ([72.43.68.175]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:23:58 +0100 Received: from adelaide by rrcs-72-43-68-175.nys.biz.rr.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:23:58 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: h-costume@mail.indra.com From: Anne Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:22:42 -0500 Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <000401c7125e$5cd99e60$8e14a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: rrcs-72-43-68-175.nys.biz.rr.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.13) Gecko/20060414 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Re: a question about museums X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 0e84e722-ba5a-42a2-8038-d160808ead91 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456CC28D.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:13:20 -0500 (EST) Regarding photo policies at museums--as a museum employee I have a slightly different perspective on this issue. I do, in general, believe that researchers should be allowed to photograph items on display in museums. Wanda is right, the objects in most museums are held in trust for the community and do not belong to the museum per se. That said, there are sometimes very good reasons for restrictive policies on photography. If the item is not on display you are taking staff time to pull it from storage and set it up in an area appropriate for photographing it. This may seem like a simple thing, but for a large institution with many requests this could constitute a full time job. In addition, the museum may not own the copyright on some items in their collections (I am thinking of photographs primarily). Finally, if they own the copyright they may want to protect it as a money-making opportunity. It does not take much for their images to end up on websites around the world and then be reproduced ad nauseum. I cannot speak to funding in other countries, but here in the U.S., saying that ticket sales and government funding covers the cost of caring for and providing access to objects is a joke! Many museums receive very little government funding and what is available these days is almost always project-related, i.e., no salaries or utilities are covered. If tickets truly reflected the cost of maintaining the buildings and paying the staff, much less providing state-of-the-art care for the objects (something only a few museums can even dream of doing) no one could afford to visit but the rich. The institution I work for is quite small, but we own four historic houses and have six full time staff. The building I work in has an average gas and electric bill of $1000 a month and it is a relatively small building compared to large city museums. The cost of conserving one recently damaged small paper item was $600. Staff salaries, while miniscule compared to other professions, cost the institution over $160,000 a year. Meanwhile, unrestricted government funding covers less than 12% of our annual budget. We do charge a very small fee for images of documents, but there is no fee to photograph items on display. The fee is charged primarily for the time our archivist spends pulling items and assisting researchers and this can be considerable. Sorry to go on, but museum funding is a constant source of anxiety for many of us in the field and I guess this touched a sore spot! Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 18:30:04 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNU27M010617 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:30:02 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASNTw9e021555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:30:01 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASNSERG070694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:28:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNS6IR000757; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:28:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodgw1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASJULgl002470 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:30:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from k.m.bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from ([193.60.149.5]) by uodgw1.derby.ac.uk with ESMTP id 5202112.16194588; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:29:40 0000 Received: from Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p2+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id kASFTcY09990.; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:29:39 GMT Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:29:37 +0000 Message-Id: <456C55D402000014000C62C5@Cluster1_gwise3_server.derby.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 7.0.1 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:29:24 +0000 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: References: <200611280033.kAS0VHdw069316@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200611280033.kAS0VHdw069316@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Walking art ( h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 743) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4fd2bfb7-7e78-4700-87f2-259a80d5a7ae X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456CC676.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:30:02 -0500 (EST) Ruth Anne wrote: >But the article's comment "The kings of France adopted high heels, as >did the aristocracy, which explains why poor people who couldn't >afford them were said to be "down at their heels." sounds fishy to >me. My understanding (gleaned where? the mists of time make source >uncertain) was that people "down at the heel" walked their heels into >nothing--and couldn't afford new shoes (or heels). So, Yes to poverty >but No to an inability to afford high-heeled shoes to begin with.... I agree. I've always understood "down-at-heel shoes" to be old ones with the heels worn, and perhaps the backs trodden down as well. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 18:31:27 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNVRsK010654 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:31:27 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASNVNGp022911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:31:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASNPu72070362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:25:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNPmk4097971; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:25:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASJBeZk079074 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep45.mail.dk ([195.41.46.228]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061128191135.EAYH10896.fep31.mail.dk@fep45.mail.dk> for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:11:35 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.182]) by fep45.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061128191135.NDXI119.fep45.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:11:35 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c71321$12edeea0$b643a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:11:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep45.mail.dk from [80.161.67.182] at Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:11:34 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] kammerdug /linnen X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 88148e10-eae8-4dcc-80fe-3c974ff853e8 X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456CC6CC.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:31:27 -0500 (EST) Hi all, I have bookmarked all your suggestions for the handkerchief linnen /cambric. Thankyou soo much! As Tania suggested me i contakted the lady who had the embroidery shop, and she answered me that she still delivers to her known clients. The cambric is available to her, and i just ordered 10 meters of it. Strange that the danish handicraft guild told me they could not get it anymore, as there still are a lot of places who carries it. Perhaps its because they seldom sell any of it, and therefore gave it up. I was very fond of this embroidery shop, the best sellection in hole town and besides a very kind and friendly lady who owned it. She told me that now she has embroidery as a living. I was very surprised of this and curious so i have asked her what she is embroidering. Wished i could do that! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 18:32:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNW8wC010673 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:32:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kASNW4ig012865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:32:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kASNTEBA070989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:29:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kASNT9ii002124; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:29:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51310.mail.yahoo.com (web51310.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.176]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kASNT0HD001806 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:29:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 40867 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2006 23:28:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hMU4n71IIcC+sHl2+BSdk1NZZY7+KjEYWiq8hIgmHdxAWimi7qkshsfu31z47spDSbAesxwMqUjD+sjzmYi3hwl8aSxfetkTvbPbgTKQLTJzNwYjqZR7W3skWPFB2DCoCPIi3yvGxo2XKEgBZDV81U4zR0VRAcc/8Y8T3diBx8g= ; Message-ID: <20061128232854.40865.qmail@web51310.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jlmitIcVM1kVeSf1Yn4XcpDLyZTo9RPm1nA8_n_2lgtnBrUe7xCFIbABXTG5QRFdzoAapYWDqRj1syZkRketdDFzcUHXwZRQBziImKL7jYFm9QuAfRMlW41bUE6c_H11BzfWNuZNJVMP5Xo- Received: from [69.177.224.102] by web51310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:28:54 PST Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:28:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ann Catelli To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061128073348.033fadd8@suziclarke.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=14% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Canaletto at Yale RE: London shows X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 9bfa914a-8534-4851-a186-9785f9e307f5 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456CC6F4.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:32:08 -0500 (EST) --- Suzi Clarke wrote: > If anyone is coming to London in the next few months > there are several new exhibitions due - one I am > particularly looking forward to is "Canaletto in > England" at the Dulwich Picture Gallery. > > Suzi I hope to see that exhibit before it travels to London; it is currently on view at the Yale Center for British Art, 1080 Canal St., New Haven, CT. Open through December 31, 2006. Current Exhibitions Ann in CT ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 19:26:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT0QfC7012147 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:26:45 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAT0Qba0029624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:26:41 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAT0Ogkb081050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:24:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT0Odkw062089; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:24:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail6.tpgi.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT0OVrK061940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:24:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-215-142-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.215.142]) by mail6.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAT0OTKW027638 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:24:30 +1100 Message-ID: <009201c7134c$bc9d0dc0$8ed7f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:24:29 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=40% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: a28b06c7-5f98-4b0c-8497-8472a11688ba X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456CD3BD.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:26:41 -0500 (EST) Hi everyone, I'm looking for 16th century images of bum rolls (no not to wear with a Spanish Farthingale), I've got 2 in mind in particular, the first is a cartoon poking fun at fashion, it shows women in a dressmaker's shop and there's at least one woman with her skirt lifted up to show the bum roll. The second is a painting, all I can remember is a group of women sitting on stools in the foreground wearing pastel colours facing away from the viewer to look at something in the middle of the painting (I'm thinking they are looking at a dance but I may be confusing it with another painting). The way their hips are enlarged but their skirts compress relatively easily to sit down suggests a bum roll, for some reason I'm thinking this image is associated with the French Court but I can't remember why. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 21:30:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT2UkPw017590 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:30:51 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAT2UgIp029506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:30:46 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAT2OjmK000125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:24:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT2Ocwe085350; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:24:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT2OV31085148 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:24:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (angel.reddawn.net [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCFAB0C4F for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:24:25 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <456CEF62.5070300@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:24:34 -0600 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls References: <009201c7134c$bc9d0dc0$8ed7f5dc@user4712b7d135> In-Reply-To: <009201c7134c$bc9d0dc0$8ed7f5dc@user4712b7d135> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: b4a1711e-1828-4237-929e-82c10d6ffb3b X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456CF0D3.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:30:46 -0500 (EST) Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > Hi everyone, I'm looking for 16th century images of bum rolls (no not to > wear with a Spanish Farthingale), > I've got 2 in mind in particular, the first is a cartoon poking fun at > fashion, it shows women in a dressmaker's shop and there's at least one > woman with her skirt lifted up to show the bum roll. There's a cropped close-up here: http://www.geocities.com/technically_naked/grueso8.jpg And a smaller, but fuller image here: http://kalenhughes.com/db4/00326/kalenhughes.com/_uimages/bum1.jpg > The second is a painting, all I can remember is a group of women sitting > on stools in the foreground wearing pastel colours facing away from the > viewer to look at something in the middle of the painting Not familiar with this one, sorry. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Nov 28 21:53:55 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT2rtrD018671 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:53:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAT2rpnO010717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:53:54 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAT2rVCs005072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:53:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT2rUWw012867; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:53:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT2rQ3Y012802 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:53:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04678 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:39:12 -0600 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:39:12 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls In-Reply-To: <009201c7134c$bc9d0dc0$8ed7f5dc@user4712b7d135> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 4dee2059-ec25-42cb-9154-53f3e8610023 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456CF63F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:53:55 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > The second is a painting, all I can remember is a group of women > sitting on stools in the foreground wearing pastel colours facing away > from the viewer to look at something in the middle of the painting > (I'm thinking they are looking at a dance but I may be confusing it > with another painting). The way their hips are enlarged but their > skirts compress relatively easily to sit down suggests a bum roll, for > some reason I'm thinking this image is associated with the French > Court but I can't remember why. Either of a pair of small panoramas associated with a ball commemmorating the wedding of the Duc de Joyeuse, showing the French court of Henri III. My slide notes say the paintings are at the Musee National du Chateau de Versailles, but I feel certain I saw them at the Louvre a few years ago; maybe part of the same series, maybe copies, maybe they have been moved. Various of these images are reproduced in a lot of books; one that's easy to find is Brian Holme's _Princely Feasts and Festivals_. I think one or both are in Davenport as well. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 02:42:21 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT7gH7L027502 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:42:17 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAT7gDAT014515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:42:16 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAT7fPSp042565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:41:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT7fI9c055329; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:41:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT7fEMT055270 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:41:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05418 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:27:01 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:27:01 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ac3906b9-0ed0-4802-a24a-c80d80f3eda7 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456D39D5.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:42:17 -0500 (EST) Following up my own post (below): Here's one of the images: http://www.insecula.com/oeuvre/photo_ME0000057470.html The presence of rolls is very clear, particularly on the woman in the right foreground, but on some others as well. It does seem to be at the Louvre, as I was remembering. I probably have some photos of it and its mate, but I haven't gotten around to indexing all of the 500 or so slides I took in Paris ... a few years ago ... yeesh, I will never get them all straight. --Robin On Tue, 28 Nov 2006, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > > The second is a painting, all I can remember is a group of women > > sitting on stools in the foreground wearing pastel colours facing away > > from the viewer to look at something in the middle of the painting > > (I'm thinking they are looking at a dance but I may be confusing it > > with another painting). The way their hips are enlarged but their > > skirts compress relatively easily to sit down suggests a bum roll, for > > some reason I'm thinking this image is associated with the French > > Court but I can't remember why. > > Either of a pair of small panoramas associated with a ball commemmorating > the wedding of the Duc de Joyeuse, showing the French court of Henri III. > My slide notes say the paintings are at the Musee National du Chateau de > Versailles, but I feel certain I saw them at the Louvre a few years ago; > maybe part of the same series, maybe copies, maybe they have been moved. > > Various of these images are reproduced in a lot of books; one that's easy > to find is Brian Holme's _Princely Feasts and Festivals_. I think one or > both are in Davenport as well. > > --Robin > > ========================================================== Robin Netherton // Editor at Large robin@nightowl.net voice: (314) 439-1222 // fax: (314) 439-1666 Life is just a bowl of queries. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 03:31:59 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT8VvGc028638 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 03:31:57 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAT8VrY0019078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 03:31:56 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAT8VNRo047715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:31:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT8VLnL091731; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:31:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT8VGqh091668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:31:19 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-216-44-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.216.44]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAT8VEqL021286 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:31:15 +1100 Message-ID: <004801c71390$bbad8cc0$2cd8f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:31:13 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=57% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f6f29375-3489-4672-88b7-b3316712bee0 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456D4579.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 03:31:57 -0500 (EST) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls > > Following up my own post (below): Here's one of the images: > > http://www.insecula.com/oeuvre/photo_ME0000057470.html > > The presence of rolls is very clear, particularly on the woman in the > right foreground, but on some others as well. > > It does seem to be at the Louvre, as I was remembering. I probably have > some photos of it and its mate, but I haven't gotten around to indexing > all of the 500 or so slides I took in Paris ... a few years ago ... yeesh, > I will never get them all straight. > > --Robin > Aha! I found another http://homepage.mac.com/muzette/Eng.File/Art/Gallery_pages/Gallery_bal.html it's not that big but this is the one I was thinking of. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 08:47:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDlB7K006854 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:47:11 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATDl7hg018643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:47:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATDiwWC091078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:44:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDivlr064419; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:44:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATD7TOw024213 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:07:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06240 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:53:15 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:53:15 -0600 (CST) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls In-Reply-To: <004801c71390$bbad8cc0$2cd8f5dc@user4712b7d135> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1356; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: ed371967-8ff6-4b57-833a-fcb686199ff5 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456D8F5B.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:47:11 -0500 (EST) I wrote: > > Following up my own post (below): Here's one of the images: > > http://www.insecula.com/oeuvre/photo_ME0000057470.html Elizabeth wrote: > Aha! I found another > http://homepage.mac.com/muzette/Eng.File/Art/Gallery_pages/Gallery_bal.html > it's not that big but this is the one I was thinking of. Yes, that's the mate. I can't recall whether there are any more than just these two. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 08:47:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDlTgO006859 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:47:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATDlQux007910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:47:29 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATDdXAq089771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:39:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDdHqw057852; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:39:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail4.tpgi.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAT8EdN2079507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:14:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed Received: from user4712b7d135 (220-245-216-44-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.216.44]) by mail4.tpgi.com.au (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAT8EbAW011481 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:14:39 +1100 Message-ID: <004001c7138e$69b54680$2cd8f5dc@user4712b7d135> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:14:36 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=35% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 192ed57c-5163-49e7-9fac-4bd0aee56886 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456D8F6E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:47:29 -0500 (EST) > Either of a pair of small panoramas associated with a ball commemmorating > the wedding of the Duc de Joyeuse, showing the French court of Henri III. > My slide notes say the paintings are at the Musee National du Chateau de > Versailles, but I feel certain I saw them at the Louvre a few years ago; > maybe part of the same series, maybe copies, maybe they have been moved. > > Various of these images are reproduced in a lot of books; one that's easy > to find is Brian Holme's _Princely Feasts and Festivals_. I think one or > both are in Davenport as well. > > --Robin > thanks Robin and Dawn for the info, I've managed to find a very small version of the French painting http://www.silesiancramer.com/art/czech/16_wedding.htm but I'll keep looking for a larger image (it has to be electronic as I am trying to answer a question on another list) at least I've got one image and I have something to go on to find the painting. And Robin's second message has just arrived in my inbox so I've now got a decent sized image. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 08:50:31 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDoT47006951 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:50:29 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATDoPq4022001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:50:28 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATDkcVa091423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:46:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDkbxk066232; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:46:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDkX3m066062 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:46:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep41.mail.dk ([195.41.46.142]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061129134623.VTDQ10896.fep31.mail.dk@fep41.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:46:23 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.122]) by fep41.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061129134623.NRIK20909.fep41.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:46:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c713bc$c11bea40$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004001c7138e$69b54680$2cd8f5dc@user4712b7d135> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:46:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep41.mail.dk from [80.161.67.122] at Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:46:19 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 1822f516-b99f-4f7f-83b3-4ffa798c56e8 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456D9021.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:50:29 -0500 (EST) Hi, I had this online some time ago in a big format. But alas its down and gone. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls > > >> Either of a pair of small panoramas associated with a ball commemmorating >> the wedding of the Duc de Joyeuse, showing the French court of Henri III. >> My slide notes say the paintings are at the Musee National du Chateau de >> Versailles, but I feel certain I saw them at the Louvre a few years ago; >> maybe part of the same series, maybe copies, maybe they have been moved. >> >> Various of these images are reproduced in a lot of books; one that's easy >> to find is Brian Holme's _Princely Feasts and Festivals_. I think one or >> both are in Davenport as well. >> >> --Robin >> > thanks Robin and Dawn for the info, I've managed to find a very small > version of the French painting > http://www.silesiancramer.com/art/czech/16_wedding.htm but I'll keep > looking for a larger image (it has to be electronic as I am trying to > answer a question on another list) at least I've got one image and I have > something to go on to find the painting. > And Robin's second message has just arrived in my inbox so I've now got a > decent sized image. > thanks > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 08:57:25 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDvPrH007096 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:57:25 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATDvLPX028062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:57:24 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATDudHg093531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:56:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDubvn076576; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:56:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep31.mail.dk (fep31.mail.dk [80.160.76.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATDuSUr076378 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:56:35 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep43.mail.dk ([195.41.46.226]) by fep31.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061129135625.WHCA10896.fep31.mail.dk@fep43.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:56:25 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.122]) by fep43.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061129135625.NSWV26664.fep43.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:56:25 +0100 Message-ID: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:56:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep43.mail.dk from [80.161.67.122] at Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:56:23 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 153fc670-2a21-42a9-b0c3-ee59e0210f38 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456D91C1.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:57:25 -0500 (EST) Hi, Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen from my old embroidery shop. The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i use this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 09:11:07 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATEB65e007386 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:11:06 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATEB3Cd031135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:11:06 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATE8jGX096141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:08:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATE8hJn088678; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:08:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATE8acI088422 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:08:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 29 Nov 2006 14:06:22 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAIYjbUXUSnInh2dsb2JhbACMbwEBCQ4q Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1250 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GpQ4r-0004TU-CD for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:06:21 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061129140249.033f9c58@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:06:22 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug In-Reply-To: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7c8b7c2b-afd0-4b53-8284-7b7fe80d7977 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456D94F7.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:11:06 -0500 (EST) At 13:56 29/11/2006, you wrote: >Hi, >Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen >from my old embroidery shop. >The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i >use this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge? > >Bjarne I've never seen linen trimming a silk gown, whereas there are several gowns in collections with silk gauze. Silk organza makes a good substitute, also tulle. The V and A has a dress with gauze, and so does the Chester County collection, I think - "Fitting and Proper" book. (Mind you that might be "Costume Closeup" - I am using all of them right now for a sacque I am making.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 09:30:12 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATEUCY6007832 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:12 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATEU6aC019383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:12 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATET8r3099688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:29:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATET68r011022; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:29:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep33.mail.dk (fep33.mail.dk [80.160.76.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATESxld010845 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:29:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep40.mail.dk ([195.41.46.140]) by fep33.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061129142854.SYZQ22863.fep33.mail.dk@fep40.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:28:54 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.67.122]) by fep40.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061129142853.NRYG10241.fep40.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:28:53 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c713c2$b3d71930$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> <7.0.1.0.2.20061129140249.033f9c58@suziclarke.co.uk> Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:28:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep40.mail.dk from [80.161.67.122] at Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:28:51 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 3122b472-e7e4-412d-85a4-2141ec3dbc3a X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456D996F.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:12 -0500 (EST) Hi Suzi, For a little pleated trim, do you handsew all the edges on your gowns? I have a nice seam folder on my machine, wich makes very nice edges. I think organza would be two stiff, maybe a silk chiffon? If i go to a shop here and ask for silk gauge, i dont think they would know what it is, or if they have it! Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug > At 13:56 29/11/2006, you wrote: >>Hi, >>Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen from >>my old embroidery shop. >>The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i use >>this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge? >> >>Bjarne > > I've never seen linen trimming a silk gown, whereas there are several > gowns in collections with silk gauze. Silk organza makes a good > substitute, also tulle. > > The V and A has a dress with gauze, and so does the Chester County > collection, I think - "Fitting and Proper" book. (Mind you that might be > "Costume Closeup" - I am using all of them right now for a sacque I am > making.) > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 09:47:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATElN6J008233 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:47:23 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATElJFa013681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:47:23 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATEjois002658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:45:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATEjiPC028638; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:45:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATEjblr028483 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:45:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from pavilion (msla-r1a1m175.in-tch.com [216.166.191.175]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id kATEWw506811 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:32:59 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <004601c713c6$32d32820$afbfa6d8@pavilion> From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:53:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: eb213c8a-2d47-40f5-b24e-21159d00c85a X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456D9D77.004 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:47:23 -0500 (EST) Hi, Bjarne! The transparency sounds like something your new linen fabric shares with the silk gauze, but what about linen's tendency to ravel fiercely? I'd imagine you sure could use it for trimmings, but you'd probably have to hem all the bits and such, instead of pinking the edges. Of course, I'm coming from the standpoint of someone who doesn't know much of value about 18th century clothes, but I do recall seeing some pinked stuff in some of my books. So I guess it would depend on two things: 1. What kind of trimmings you're talking about, and 2. Whether or not linen trimmings are authentic for your time period (and whether or not you care, too, come to think of it). In the meantime, I'm sticking my tongue out at you, across all of the continent and an ocean or two, in pure envy. I'd roll over and play dead for linen that fine! --Sue, in Montana, where it's really, really cold and she wishes like the dickens that she could just stay home and be cozy instead of venturing out into sub-zero (farenheit) temps and going to work..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug > Hi, > Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen from my > old embroidery shop. > The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i use > this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 10:00:09 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATF04CY008545 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:00:04 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATExwGn016802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:00:03 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATEv474004830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:57:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATEuxBq041333; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:57:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATEuqj8041017 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:56:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 29 Nov 2006 14:56:20 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABcubUXUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACMbwEBCQ4q Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:1446 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GpQrD-000I81-5Y for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:56:19 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061129145116.033fef08@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:55:54 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug In-Reply-To: <000401c713c2$b3d71930$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> <7.0.1.0.2.20061129140249.033f9c58@suziclarke.co.uk> <000401c713c2$b3d71930$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=11% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 513a181c-a704-477b-a493-120bfcc0d37a X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456DA06E.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:00:04 -0500 (EST) At 14:28 29/11/2006, you wrote: >Hi Suzi, >For a little pleated trim, do you handsew all the edges on your gowns? >I have a nice seam folder on my machine, wich makes very nice edges. >I think organza would be two stiff, maybe a silk chiffon? >If i go to a shop here and ask for silk gauge, i dont think they >would know what it is, or if they have it! I found silk chiffon too floppy. I usually use the overlocker/serger, with matching thread, or gold thread - it makes a very delicate edge, and is very light and pretty. The dress in yellow in the middle, is trimmed with yellow organza http://www.minuetcompany.org/galleryimages/Image10.jpg but I have used white before - just don't have pictures!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 14:17:08 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATJH7Mf017377 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:17:08 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATJGx8H002544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:17:07 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATJEvfT054954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:14:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATJEjs0054864; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:14:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fep35.mail.dk (fep35.mail.dk [80.160.76.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATJEZZh054650 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:14:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from fep45.mail.dk ([195.41.46.228]) by fep35.mail.dk (InterMail vM.7.05.02.01 201-2174-114-102-20060817) with ESMTP id <20061129191428.GRZO14805.fep35.mail.dk@fep45.mail.dk> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:14:28 +0100 Received: from CPQ21932199711 ([80.161.20.23]) by fep45.mail.dk (InterMail vG.2.02.00.00 201-2161-120-101-20051020) with ESMTP id <20061129191427.NYPW119.fep45.mail.dk@CPQ21932199711> for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:14:27 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01c713ea$97f5c590$1714a150@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> <004601c713c6$32d32820$afbfa6d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:14:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at fep45.mail.dk from [80.161.20.23] at Wed, 29 Nov 2006 20:14:21 +0100 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5ee0a2a8-fd56-4ac4-8f8b-3b69ef6f8411 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456DDCAB.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:17:07 -0500 (EST) Dear Sue, When i was in Sweden last visiting a friend who also reenacts, i helped her with a gown she is making. She wanted scalloped sleave ruffles, and i tryed to use the fray check to the edges. I didnt like it, because it dyes the edge darker than the original collour of the silk. The trim i have in mind is just a strip of material pleated and sewed 1/3 from the edge, about 2 inches wide. I think i want to stick to Suzis advise in using organza, more easy to work with. Its a trimming i have made before some years ago i made the blue dress with chenille embroidery: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/kostumer6.htm I used my hem seamer from the machine, and it didnt look that bad. Only 1-2 mm. wide. The trim is for the anglaise dress i make right now, as you can see of the drawing, i am going to add a little pleated trim to the skirts. And speaking of the anglaise dress, i changed the corset front and the result is much better, just finnished the boning with 84 bones alone in the front piece! I took off some of the sides at the armhole, and then i changed the angle of the center front, where i took in a little center front, and also changed the bone angles to vertical in the front. Much better. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug > Hi, Bjarne! The transparency sounds like something your new linen fabric > shares with the silk gauze, but what about linen's tendency to ravel > fiercely? I'd imagine you sure could use it for trimmings, but you'd > probably have to hem all the bits and such, instead of pinking the edges. > Of course, I'm coming from the standpoint of someone who doesn't know much > of value about 18th century clothes, but I do recall seeing some pinked > stuff in some of my books. So I guess it would depend on two things: > 1. What kind of trimmings you're talking about, and > 2. Whether or not linen trimmings are authentic for your time period (and > whether or not you care, too, come to think of it). > > In the meantime, I'm sticking my tongue out at you, across all of the > continent and an ocean or two, in pure envy. I'd roll over and play dead > for linen that fine! > > --Sue, in Montana, where it's really, really cold and she wishes like the > dickens that she could just stay home and be cozy instead of venturing out > into sub-zero (farenheit) temps and going to work..... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:56 AM > Subject: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug > > >> Hi, >> Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen from > my >> old embroidery shop. >> The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i use >> this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge? >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 14:32:48 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATJWmk4017781 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:32:48 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATJWglP000414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:32:47 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATJTTHG057863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:29:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATJTKWH072496; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:29:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com (nz-out-0506.google.com [64.233.162.239]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATJTFMi072242 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:29:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id m7so1168054nzf for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:29:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=C3SSQhspzHa2gXJ2lMlnANpSPvuYvgXMVU6b9rMWShGFr9xaDurq+EKPn4VQYA8k4G9GUhunyCSPo15SxfcZAYRUQjU3j5TsUh6yW0Qad5T858O8VxdCJRjiGsnY7q4jRoNLaCTIoauko2Iy799IM7k75G8J8lQJ2WPPHfoKPpU= Received: by 10.65.219.13 with SMTP id w13mr3258432qbq.1164828548345; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.160.14 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:29:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:29:08 -0800 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Walking Art, " at the Italian Cultural Institute - chopines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 13563a41-5fd5-474f-b27d-6167020859e6 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456DE05A.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:32:48 -0500 (EST) >"Round-heeled" reported a similar phenomenon but due to excessive >walking on the job--i.e., street-walker. This is a similar >"understanding" of mine.... >--Ruth Anne Baumgartner I've always thought "round-heeled" was aimed more at the "easy to push over" in the sexually available sense... not so much streetwalker as er, um... "amateur enthusiast". And in reference to the "Walking Art" exhibit article the photo caption says "These 12-inch-high chopines are reproductions of a style worn by Venetian women in the 16th century." Well, pooh-pooh! I've never seen chopines that look like that. The ones that are laced have double rows of eyes and they dont have tongues like modern shoes. I dont know of any with a heel cap. The ones that are closed toed are usually mules. Most are open-toed. This is a modern shoe on a 16th-ISH platform. It appears to be suede which is not a 16th leather treatment. And as for the 16th c & Italy as the origin of chopines here are clear references to Spanish chopines in the 15th c; you can find one priest's c1485 diatribe against them in Ruth Matilda Anderson's book, Hispanic Dress. What these 21st century chopines are is amusing; they are a beautifully crafted homage to 16th style, but not a "reproduction". I will now go console my double-laced, open-toed, velvet & tasseled reproduction chopines and tell them how wonderful they truly are and if I get to DC this winter, I will go have a look at the exhibit. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 16:28:28 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATLSSGO019837 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:28:28 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kATLSOQ5018148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:28:27 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kATLM2eb079288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:22:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATLLn5b015072; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:21:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kATK6eqA021364 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:07:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 29 Nov 2006 19:56:06 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAALp2bUXUSnIwh2dsb2JhbACMbgEBCQ4q Received: from 88-107-126-140.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.107.126.140]:2935 helo=suzi.suziclarke.co.uk) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GpVVU-000H2F-MZ for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:54:12 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20061129195335.033fc480@suziclarke.co.uk> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:56:04 +0000 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug/gauze trim In-Reply-To: <001b01c713ea$97f5c590$1714a150@CPQ21932199711> References: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> <004601c713c6$32d32820$afbfa6d8@pavilion> <001b01c713ea$97f5c590$1714a150@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=15% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 096ebeed-9c82-4e3a-98bc-e7e58f67a683 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456DFB78.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:28:28 -0500 (EST) At 19:14 29/11/2006, you wrote: >Dear Sue, >When i was in Sweden last visiting a friend who also reenacts, i >helped her with a gown she is making. She wanted scalloped sleave >ruffles, and i tryed to use the fray check to the edges. >I didnt like it, because it dyes the edge darker than the original >collour of the silk. >The trim i have in mind is just a strip of material pleated and >sewed 1/3 from the edge, about 2 inches wide. >I think i want to stick to Suzis advise in using organza, more easy >to work with. >Its a trimming i have made before some years ago i made the blue >dress with chenille embroidery: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/kostumer6.htm >I used my hem seamer from the machine, and it didnt look that bad. >Only 1-2 mm. wide. >The trim is for the anglaise dress i make right now, as you can see >of the drawing, i am going to add a little pleated trim to the skirts. >And speaking of the anglaise dress, i changed the corset front and >the result is much better, just finnished the boning with 84 bones >alone in the front piece! >I took off some of the sides at the armhole, and then i changed the >angle of the center front, where i took in a little center front, >and also changed the bone angles to vertical in the front. >Much better. Bjarne The trim on that blue dress is very pretty - I think it is a very period trim. I don't like fraycheck either. I have some gum arabic powder to try, (what was used to stop fraying originally, but never seem to have the time to experiment!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Nov 29 19:16:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAU0GQo5022721 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:16:26 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAU0GMaG028025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:16:26 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAU0Dxch006660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:14:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAU0CjtI001848; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:13:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAU0BlWn000965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:12:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id kAU0BcGP002749 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:11:46 -0500 Received: from 72.13.239.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:17:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <64910.72.13.239.193.1164845834.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061129140249.033f9c58@suziclarke.co.uk> References: <003701c713be$299fc900$7a43a150@CPQ21932199711> <7.0.1.0.2.20061129140249.033f9c58@suziclarke.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:17:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: f465d7e4-12d7-45f7-a9db-fb923b3ffe5d X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456E22D6.003 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:16:26 -0500 (EST) >Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen >from my old embroidery shop. >The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i >use this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge? The perfect use would be caps, neck-handkerchiefs, engegantes and perhaps a dressy apron. White embroidery would look nice on it. Also ruffles on caps or the sleeves & necklines of shifts were sometimes made of a finer fabric than the rest of the garment. Since the hems of ruffles are seen, they should be hand-stitched. I don't think anyone has seen the selvedge edge of a fabric used for a ruffle edge. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 30 01:46:39 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAU6kYIj000979 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:46:34 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAU6kUCf026813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:46:34 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAU6jlLD053635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:45:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAU6jfdo010782; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:45:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.collierfam.com (collierfam.com [216.65.44.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAU6jai6010701 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:45:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sharon@collierfam.com) Received: from bob3pc [216.65.44.63] by mail.collierfam.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.15) id AC812D3E0064; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 06:38:57 +0000 From: "Sharon at Collierfam.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 22:45:32 -0800 Message-ID: <006301c7144b$23074450$0200a8c0@bob3pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 In-Reply-To: <004801c71390$bbad8cc0$2cd8f5dc@user4712b7d135> X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAU6jai6010701 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 7a6eeba0-d659-4ef9-8444-0c1c7e7fef11 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456E7E46.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:46:34 -0500 (EST) It seems to be that the women are wearing wheel farthingales, not bumrolls alone. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:31 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for pictures of bum rolls > > Following up my own post (below): Here's one of the images: > > http://www.insecula.com/oeuvre/photo_ME0000057470.html > > The presence of rolls is very clear, particularly on the woman in the > right foreground, but on some others as well. > > It does seem to be at the Louvre, as I was remembering. I probably have > some photos of it and its mate, but I haven't gotten around to indexing > all of the 500 or so slides I took in Paris ... a few years ago ... yeesh, > I will never get them all straight. > > --Robin > Aha! I found another http://homepage.mac.com/muzette/Eng.File/Art/Gallery_pages/Gallery_bal.html it's not that big but this is the one I was thinking of. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 30 13:51:22 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAUIpETC022202 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:51:18 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAUIpA1B024633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:51:14 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAUInthE011516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:49:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAUImoms050851; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:49:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (88.d2.1343.static.theplanet.com [67.19.210.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAUIm3he049808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:48:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1GpqvW-0004QF-M6; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:46:30 -0600 Received: from 160.36.154.221 ([160.36.154.221]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:46:30 -0500 Message-ID: <20061130134630.d6wrktgpmbs4w4wk@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:46:30 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32003] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/horde/imp/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/horde/imp X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAUIm3he049808 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: [13thCentGarb] V&A to scrap academic reproduction fees X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 18fc01e2-eb6e-489d-bae5-6498c6fe88e8 X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456F281E.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:51:14 -0500 (EST) ----- Forwarded message from wymarc@comcast.net ----- Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:53:01 -0500 From: Richard Wymarc Reply-To: 13thCentGarb@yahoogroups.com Subject: [13thCentGarb] V&A to scrap academic reproduction fees To: AtlantianLaurels@yahoogroups.com, 13thCentGarb@yahoogroups.com V&A to scrap academic reproduction fees By Martin Bailey | Posted 30 November 2006 london. In a move which could transform art publishing, the Victoria and Albert Museum in London (V&A) is to drop charges for the reproduction of images in scholarly books and magazines. Reproduction costs now often make it difficult to publish specialist art historical material. The new scheme will come into effect early next year. The V&A is believed to be the first museum anywhere in the world which is to offer images free of copyright and administrative charges. It also intends to take a "liberal" view on what should be deemed scholarly or educational. The new arrangements will normally apply to all books published by university presses. Free images will also be available for exhibition catalogues and journals such as Apollo and The Burlington. Reproduction fees currently bring in just over £250,000 a year for the V&A, and it is estimated that around half this sum will be lost. However, administering the system eats into the profits, so the real loss is much less. Under the new scheme, publishers will be able to download images directly from the internet. Commercial publications will continue to be charged. The V&A feels that it is important that readers see images of items in the collection, helping to fulfil its educational role and raise its profile internationally. Images of 25,000 objects in the V&A will be available. The decision to end charging could well have major implications on art publishing since there will be pressure on other UK museums to follow suit. http://www.theartnewspaper.com/article01.asp?id=525 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Master Richard Wymarc mka Timothy J. Mitchell "I have offended God and mankind because my work didn't reach the quality it should have." --Leonardo da Vinci [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/13thCentGarb/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/13thCentGarb/join (Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 30 16:08:10 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAUL8AIw025850 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:08:10 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAUL8656024057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:08:10 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAUL5Rr1032275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:05:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAUL3o3Z013607; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:03:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37311.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37311.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.90.254]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAUKkeVk093486 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:47:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 37759 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Nov 2006 20:46:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pEffNce/Hqkt4Bq2HxwBTYVP5XtAnOk4/i0nG1LNvDLcGjLuvhqPdNC4r3y9uPhwMH38/U9L5MSLAnC5R/cR6bETaRz0w8D4LGpRfqtiTX+iqZ1lEN9RdxPvZIDM0s263V8CHpEp2KoxSCbH2suuRphq9iP0EUUauB/SmQPRa3Q= ; Message-ID: <20061130204629.37757.qmail@web37311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.37.25.87] by web37311.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:46:29 PST Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:46:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAUKkeVk093486 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Query about Mod and the mid-1960's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: 5a9def9c-73c6-409c-9342-802ca09ce998 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456F4836.002 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:08:10 -0500 (EST) Greetings everyone! I'm popping out of lurkdom after Worldcon and Loscon to ask for help while setting up another group set of costumes for next year's Friday Night Fun. Wonder of wonders, they are pulling me out of medieval era clothing/costume and into making more early-to-mid 20th century stuff. The theme is "Mod" as in the mid 1960's. My tighter focus, at least in theory, is going to be closer to the items worn by Diana Riggs in the Avengers, or one of the other similar designers, but I am also finding interesting comments about a couple of other designers. I'll share a few of the ones I don't want for myself with some of the other folks doing the theme who haven't chosen yet as well. So my request is help in finding photos of garments made by John Bates (Jean Varon), Andre Courneges, or Paco Rabanne. I'll be trying to determine a fiber which I can easily wear, as most of the polyester I remember from that time (since I was well, very young then) makes me break out in serious cases of the itchies now. My husband's first vote is for the immediately identifiable first season Emma Peel leather catsuit, but I want to see a few other ideas before I make up my mind. (*grin*) Then to find a nice pair of 1940's patterns for me- one for day and one for evening! Thank you, Jonnalyhn Wolfcat aka Angharat ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 30 16:27:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: from endeis.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAULRtOq026383 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:27:55 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by endeis.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kAULRWjw008821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:27:55 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kAULP2TA035085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:25:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAULJioT031393; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:21:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from aethelwulf.jatol.com (aethelwulf.jatol.com [147.202.37.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kAUKsbgq002523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:55:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: from 24-216-120-37.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com ([24.216.120.37]:16416 helo=compaqub) by aethelwulf.jatol.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1GpsvV-0005KS-Uz; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:54:38 -0600 Message-ID: <054401c714c1$bca67e20$eb00a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: , , Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:54:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - aethelwulf.jatol.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - formfunction.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Madame de Canaples by Jean Clouet--need better image X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-UUID: fd69c057-0606-4de4-934d-06e8d4f0c803 X-Miltered: at endeis with ID 456F4CD8.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (endeis.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 16:27:55 -0500 (EST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kAULRtOq026383 Does anyone have a larger/higher resolution version of this painting? http://nationalgalleries.org/collections/artist_search.php?objectId=4764 I'm especially interested in the sleeves, but also the neckline and the headwear. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 30 20:55:03 2006 Return-Path: Received: from psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kB11t3Oj001116 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:55:03 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by psamathe.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kB11sxsR004461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:55:02 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kB11rAGf079604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:53:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kB11qFO6022867; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 18:52:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52104.mail.yahoo.com (web52104.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.107]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAUKGKif059298 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:17:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 38111 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Nov 2006 20:15:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=A0IiRzPCEZgCiYBYSHr2ZTDWu530aT6zbxiQSPNE/mVRYSxn7N+EQ2JGGLAHrRroQ1RksMjpj/kxVZvtF1b9D5M1/+05rfOeuBJSuluKHTSp5jIq2PPnACYi62Xdl3bQlQuk0U4Q/Uw85abx7x3Ny+Y263YY7wMZbsYFBo9g9wY= ; Message-ID: <20061130201542.38109.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [74.114.43.209] by web52104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:15:42 PST Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:15:42 -0800 (PST) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Stranded Silk Floss X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at psamathe with ID 456F8B73.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (psamathe.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:55:03 -0500 (EST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id kB11t3Oj001116 I am trying to sort out what colours to stock most of when I finally start ordering in floss stock from Eterna Silks - I plan on selling their line of stranded silk, and as demand sees fit, others in time. I thought originally to find a bunch of embroidery books and use them as my references (I plan on making up floss packs that one can buy a range of colours for a group price) but realised that if I compared to extant, I will be getting today's colours, which could be faded or otherwise altered by time. If people are wanting these flosses for reproduction work, they want it to look how it did when it was new. Does anyone out there have a decent book or two I can use as reference for colouring relative to historical dying of silk? I'd like to for example, have a pack for Norse, Tudor, Elizabethan, Byzantine, Heraldic, etc that covers the general colour tones one would expect to find in such periods and cultures. I have 575 colours to choose from, and as much as I would like to buy one of everything and just go to town, it's not a practical approach to efficient stocking. I'm hoping to get some stock in and at least try to get a bit of Christmas rush covered, but this issue is kind of hanging me up. On the topic of Kammerdug (which I did a little searching and it translates to lawn), I can get linen as fine as that here in North America, and if anyone wants it, I'll gather an order. The merchant that Kimiko mentioned I am betting is buying from the same company as I do, however theirs is the narrower Czech - nothing wrong with it, just a middle-high end grade. I have bolts of both and can compare. I have been getting the museum quality Belgian cambric from them, and it is so fine and lovely that angels fear to touch it. It's pricey, but oh-so-worth it. I can't afford to stock this item, I just act as the clearing house for gathered orders. They require a minimum purchase. Thanks Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert (Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lion's head erased gules. It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. http://www.sengoidelc.com/node/131 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Nov 30 21:12:30 2006 Return-Path: Received: from aegina.uwaterloo.ca (mailservices.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.141]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kB12CUH0001580 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:12:30 -0500 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by aegina.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kB12CRLT004769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:12:30 -0500 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kB12BhA8082213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:11:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kB12ANdW038596; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:11:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web37301.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web37301.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.90.244]) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAUKodp1098272 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 13:51:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 68306 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Nov 2006 20:49:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Q27YUk4T9PbaMw01uzDzUwNTrmqHapAlN6h0Su9cfP6bofShhLFwZRqlgW2CPqtWLSwlWrFX9/17aRQuuwPD0YVmWbWxHo2AgVI74LVMMqaXom8oH1JjCj9x7cqrWOGXO4LD75Wr7durmMU42DJG4l3l3SnGLBx9SDl/kiYC3aI= ; Message-ID: <20061130204935.68304.qmail@web37301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.37.25.87] by web37301.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:49:35 PST Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holiday Gift Exchange To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.6, clamav-milter version 0.88.6 on localhost X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id kAUKodp1098272 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Miltered: at aegina with ID 456F8F8B.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http://j-chkmail.ensmp.fr)! X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (aegina.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.128.232]); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:12:30 -0500 (EST) Thank you for the reminder Dawn! I've been working on some embroidery stuff for mine, and have a purple package from SaraGrace already (arrived on the 23rd) sitting on my bookshelf helping my roommates taunt my curiousity. *grin* Jonnalyhn Wolfcat/ Angharat ----- Original Message ---- From: Dawn To: Historical Costume Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:32:10 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holiday Gift Exchange Good morning, I just wanted to remind folks who are participating that your mailing deadline is December 8th. That's 10 days from now. :) If you've lost your giftee's address, please email me privately. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume